IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-01-05

Sir_Lancelot	have you tired?	00:00
blubbi	MohammadAG: I aam not into the Social-Networking stuff, don't even have a Facebook account :)	00:00
Sir_Lancelot	tired	00:00
Sir_Lancelot	have you tried it, Laiska ?	00:00
MohammadAG	I only use it for communication blubbi, cause as I said, my friends on it don't use MSN/yahoo/ICQ etc...	00:01
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blubbi	But I like it if everbody fills out the stuff in skype (saves time adding birthday, location etc :-) 9	00:01
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blubbi	MohammadAG: ah, I see :-)	00:02
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pupnik	browser does not copy text	00:03
MohammadAG	<blubbi> But I like it if everbody fills out the stuff in skype (saves time adding birthday, location etc :-) 9	00:03
pupnik	i find no bugreport	00:03
MohammadAG	I use Hermes	00:03
MohammadAG	an advantage for social networking :)	00:03
pupnik	go to page	00:03
pupnik	select text select arrow	00:04
Sir_Lancelot	Laiska I've put all inside the same folder, but it messed with my widgets	00:04
pupnik	cursor flashes a lot	00:04
pupnik	fails to hilight	00:04
pupnik	second try	00:05
pupnik	select text arrow and hilight within one half seconf	00:05
ifreq	MohammadAG: yeah hermes is nice :)	00:05
pupnik	text gets selected but no copy appears in menu	00:05
blubbi	hrrhrr, actually we both make use of the stupidity of others to get the contacts form filled out automatically :-) (Considering this, I might create a facebook account to get he missing information :-) )	00:05
pupnik	third try:	00:05
ifreq	blubbi: yeah and pics too from facebook :)	00:06
pupnik	text selection dissapears	00:06
blubbi	ifreq: full ack	00:06
pupnik	fourth try:	00:06
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MohammadAG	blubbi, you could then deactivate the account :p	00:06
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pupnik	hilight works, copy menu option fails to appear	00:07
blubbi	ifreq: better than taking a photo for every contact :-)	00:07
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pupnik	fifth try:	00:07
blubbi	MohammadAG: right :-)	00:07
pupnik	hilight works, copy menu option fails to appear	00:07
MohammadAG	<blubbi> ifreq: better than taking a photo for every contact :-) <-- tried it once, it's a bit awkward "I want a photo of you for my contacts list"	00:07
pupnik	sixth try:	00:07
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MohammadAG	it was*	00:08
Sir_Lancelot	where are all .desktop files sotred inside N900?	00:08
Sir_Lancelot	:S	00:08
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pupnik	text selection works, copy option appears in menu, paste to terminal pastes oold copy buffer from terminal	00:08
MohammadAG	Sir_Lancelot, find *.desktop I think	00:08
blubbi	MohammadAG: right again :-)	00:09
pupnik	seventh try: different page	00:09
pupnik	maemo.org loaded	00:10
pupnik	http://maemo.3ion.at/mymenu-0.4.2.20100104_armel.deb	00:10
blubbi	By the way, reflashing under Linux (I am using Gentoo Lionux) ) is there a a good sollution? Or should I reboot to Windows?	00:11
blubbi	Damn my connection is so laggy right now... takes minutes to type a sentence in irssi	00:11
MohammadAG	blubbi, use flasher-3.5	00:11
pupnik	text hilight works. copy menu item appears (this time in a short list of options, why? why not all the selections i had before? copy button pressed. paste to terminal still gives old copy buffer	00:12
blubbi	MohammadAG: okay, thanks	00:12
pupnik	eighth try: maemo.org homepage	00:12
MohammadAG	blubbi, you have to install it from the .tar pkg	00:12
MohammadAG	blubbi, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php	00:13
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: /usr/share/applications/hildon IIRC	00:13
pupnik	hilight works, browser menu shows no "copy" option. reclick on menu brings up copy option	00:13
MohammadAG	then download this: maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz Maemo Flasher-3.5 Tool for Fremantle and Diablo, installation package for other than Debian based Linuxes (x86, 32-bit)	00:14
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pupnik	"Weather Forecast on Nokia N900. Ultra-customisable weather widget for showing forecast the way you want."	00:14
MohammadAG	pupnik, I want it in 3D :p	00:14
pupnik	copy/paste works on EIGHTH attempt	00:14
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pupnik	end rant	00:14
woglinde	pupnik lol	00:14
timeless	use ctrl-c	00:14
timeless	end sage advice	00:15
pupnik	same problem	00:15
pupnik	does not work	00:15
timeless	eh?	00:15
MohammadAG	pupnik, which app?	00:15
pupnik	shall i youtube	00:15
timeless	is that noted in the bug?	00:15
pupnik	default browser	00:15
blubbi	MohammadAG: thanks a a lot!	00:15
pupnik	i am not supposed to file bug reports with proto	00:15
MohammadAG	weird, it always works	00:15
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MohammadAG	blubbi, np, have that page bookmarked lol	00:16
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Sir_Lancelot	Jaffa ???? what do you mean?	00:16
blubbi	MohammadAG: already done :-)	00:17
MohammadAG	Sir_Lancelot, the .desktop files are there	00:17
MohammadAG	in /usr/share/applications/hildon	00:17
pupnik	ok after next reflash ill test seriously	00:18
MohammadAG	type cd /usr/share/applications/hildon and then ls to see the files in terminal	00:18
Sir_Lancelot	I see it	00:18
Sir_Lancelot	:D	00:18
Sir_Lancelot	why didn't the "find" command found the files ??	00:18
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blubbi	MohammadAG: I didn't check for flasher when installing the SDK (running scratchbox on Gentoo) but it is apparently on the same site :-)	00:18
pupnik	show find command	00:19
MohammadAG	really don't know, it seems that it shows files in the directory you're in	00:19
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: Because you didn't start from / in your find command?	00:19
MohammadAG	you downloaded the images blubbi ?	00:19
Sir_Lancelot	I did	00:19
Sir_Lancelot	I was at /	00:19
timeless	i'm walking home in snow	00:19
Sir_Lancelot	when I wrote	00:19
Sir_Lancelot	find *.desktop	00:20
Sir_Lancelot	but no results came out	00:20
MohammadAG	no I mean it only searches the directory w/o subdirectories	00:20
Sir_Lancelot	yes, I was answering to Jaffa	00:20
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: The syntax would be: find / -name '*.desktop'.	00:20
MohammadAG	oh	00:20
pupnik	./.sounds/Ringtones/Gradient.aac	00:20
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: Or, if you are in /, find . -name '*.desktop' would work as well	00:21
pupnik	oh sorry that was interpreted by irssi	00:21
pupnik	/MyDocs# find . -name \ent	00:21
pupnik	./.sounds/Ringtones/Gradient.aac	00:21
MohammadAG	oh I missed the -name parameter	00:22
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blubbi	MohammadAG: That was the first try, but then I gave scratchbox a trytry on gentoo linux and it worked	00:22
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MohammadAG	oh I see	00:23
MohammadAG	blubbi, have you ever upgraded the SDK?	00:23
pupnik	very useful command. also grep -ri $mystring $path to search for text in a whole subtree	00:23
MohammadAG	the new SDK doesn't have the Clear device option in Settings, and it's not on the N900 PR firmware	00:24
Sir_Lancelot	even with -name parameter	00:24
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Sir_Lancelot	it only returns the only result	00:24
Sir_Lancelot	which isn't inside the hildon folder	00:24
Sir_Lancelot	ehehehe	00:24
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blubbi	MohammadAG: I installed it a week ago... then I left for holliday so I never worked with it	00:24
pupnik	find will not see files hidden to user	00:25
blubbi	I installe dit on my PC at work	00:25
MohammadAG	Sir_Lancelot, did you include the ' and the wildcard?	00:25
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MohammadAG	oh then it's the new one blubbi	00:25
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MohammadAG	the old one had a Clear Device option	00:25
MohammadAG	and the App manager was in the main menu outside of "More"	00:26
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Sir_Lancelot	I wrote	00:27
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blubbi	MohammadAG: okay, I see, . I still have to dig into this whole SDK scratchbox thing...	00:27
Sir_Lancelot	find . -name '*.desktop'	00:27
MohammadAG	what's the . for?	00:27
MohammadAG	the first one	00:27
MohammadAG	just do	00:28
MohammadAG	find -name '*.desktop'	00:28
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MohammadAG	in / of course	00:28
blubbi	MohammadAG: creating packages for gentoo (ebuilds) is way easier	00:28
MohammadAG	never tried Gentoo	00:29
MohammadAG	only tried OSs that use RPM and APT	00:29
blubbi	it's lovely	00:29
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MohammadAG	blubbi, ever tried Debian?	00:29
arachnist	blubbi: and time consuming on just about every arm device	00:29
arachnist	blubbi: i have gentoo on my openrd-client, which has 1.2GHz cpu and 512MB of ram	00:30
timeless	wow, someone was leaving my nuilding as i arrived	00:30
yuizy	is it easy to mod "Camkeyd" to go to desktop instead of dashboard?	00:30
blubbi	MohammadAG: I did, but diliked the Distribution upgrades, Gentoo has roling updates, theer is nothing like Gentoo 2.1 or similar to Debian and others.	00:31
blubbi	arachnist: just copy the OS from the device to a fast Desktop, chroot into it and comile on an fast amachine	00:32
arachnist	blubbi: yeah, right	00:32
arachnist	blubbi: and run qemu binary translation, which is painfully slow	00:32
Sir_Lancelot	LOOLllll...Permission Denied	00:32
arachnist	blubbi: or do you have a fast desktop computer powered by an arm chip?	00:33
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blubbi	Sry, gusy, my connection is so bad... I have to leave or I get cracy..... see you soon!	00:33
blubbi	arachnist: No I don't (I have a Core i7 Desktop)	00:34
blubbi	#	00:34
user__654	i have an arm cortex	00:34
kamui	me too	00:34
* Arkenoi now thinks it might be more useful to map camera key to older tablets "fullscreen" key		00:34
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kamui	you don't like camkeyd's current function?	00:35
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Arkenoi	many applications just do not have fullscreen support because there is no key to activate it	00:35
Arkenoi	rss reader, etc	00:35
kamui	I'd be happier if we could remap a full press and half press to be different	00:35
kamui	half press = dashboard, full press = desktop	00:35
Arkenoi	kamui: i like it, but i'd like to have a choice ;-)	00:35
v2px	slowwww repos :(	00:35
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kamui	Arkenoi, I feel you, choice is always good	00:35
user__654	half \ full press!! brill	00:36
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dockane_	is it only me who thinks the n800 was build much better.. just compared it with the n900 and thought how well build the n800 is compared to te n900	00:36
kamui	well	00:36
kamui	the N800 was pretty much a solid piece of plastic	00:37
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kamui	the N900 doesn't have any quality issues, feels quite sturdy	00:37
* v2px acks		00:38
kamui	the slider especially feels a lot better than many other nokia phones, and most sliders in general	00:38
SpeedEvil	Arkenoi: yeah	00:38
kamui	dockane_, tell me exactly what you dont like about the N900's build quality	00:38
Gadgetoid_mbp	kamui: the stand is one big quality issue	00:38
SpeedEvil	Arkenoi: The current function with the shutter closed of 'tell userto open the shutter' is a bit pointles.	00:38
kamui	well, the stand is definately the weakest link	00:38
dockane_	wouldnt say so, too. its just like.. metalcover, cursorpad: something more handy if it comes to "rough usage"	00:38
kamui	but I don't think that should send the phone down the bad quality build lane	00:39
Gadgetoid_mbp	the N810 stand, apart from being wtfawesome, feels like a freakin' roll bar	00:39
dockane_	Gadgetoid_mbp: yeah.. the stand is crap	00:39
Gadgetoid_mbp	Oh and the battery cover	00:39
Gadgetoid_mbp	In general is just a nuisance and seems destined to break	00:39
Gadgetoid_mbp	But, that said, the N810 battery cover is horrible	00:39
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* Arkenoi liked e90 very much. more solid metal, sexy clank when it fixes itself open		00:40
Gadgetoid_mbp	It's an exercise in serious overengineering, so the N900 is a big step forward in that case	00:40
shinkamui	I never had the pleasure of owning an N810	00:40
TTilus	i had the feeling i was gonna fsck up something when taking off the battery cover	00:40
shinkamui	but the N800 I had was pretty nice and felt real durable	00:40
shinkamui	I get the same feeling with the N900	00:40
shinkamui	like it could take anything short of a long drop onto concrete	00:40
Gadgetoid_mbp	There's not much give anywhere on the N900, it's definitely robust	00:41
Gadgetoid_mbp	And the screen, of course, is not glass	00:41
SpeedEvil	yes it is.	00:41
Gadgetoid_mbp	Well not the top surface	00:41
SpeedEvil	The front surface of the screen is noit glass.	00:41
SpeedEvil	:)	00:41
dockane_	i am very happy to own the n800. pretty sure there will be always some usage for it. i currently use it as (vnc) remote controll for my media center	00:41
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Gadgetoid_mbp	So that probably affords it ever so slightly more protection than the likes of an iPhone	00:42
Arkenoi	the plastic is good enough. many people complain it is easy to scratch, well, it is not, at least not with plastic or your nails	00:42
SpeedEvil	I do wonder hoe muychg the image would change if you instead of just an air gap betwen screen and digitiser had optical silicone	00:42
Gadgetoid_mbp	although they're now putting stupidly tough deep hardened glass into phones	00:42
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Arkenoi	though they say they successfully scrathed it with stylus or even cleaning cloth	00:42
Arkenoi	don't know how they do it	00:42
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Gadgetoid_mbp	I've neither put a screen protector on mine, nor scratched it	00:43
SpeedEvil	stylus + leetle bit of grit	00:43
Arkenoi	gadgetoid, me neither	00:43
MohammadAG	Sir_Lancelot, you tried using rootsh?	00:44
kamui__	wow, I think all this time the problem may have just been the cable I was using	00:44
kamui__	I just changed cables, lets see if that helps stabilize my net	00:44
kamui__	jeez, I still have 2 stale clients too	00:44
Sir_Lancelot	what is rootsh?	00:44
MohammadAG	Sir_Lancelot, have u ever used linux before?	00:45
Sir_Lancelot	I advise you, in case you haven't noticed yet...I'm a real noob on this	00:45
VDVsx	~root	00:45
infobot	it has been said that root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.	00:45
MohammadAG	lol ok	00:45
Sir_Lancelot	i know DOS	00:45
kamui__	lol	00:45
kamui__	nice	00:45
Gadgetoid_mbp	Ugh, too much jim beam in my icecream	00:45
MohammadAG	open the App Manager	00:45
Gadgetoid_mbp	feel ill	00:45
kamui__	Sir_Lancelot, you know vista or windows 7?	00:45
Sir_Lancelot	so, the philosofy is not that different	00:45
kamui__	root is the same as the Administrator account with UAC elevated access	00:45
Sir_Lancelot	both kamui_	00:45
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kamui__	or similar	00:45
MohammadAG	Sir_Lancelot, open App manager and search for rootsh	00:45
Sir_Lancelot	ok	00:45
MohammadAG	root is superuser, you need to be one to edit system files	00:46
kamui__	rootsh is the package that lets you easily gain root on the tablet	00:46
kamui__	iirc	00:46
MohammadAG	on linux desktops, you use sudo	00:46
MohammadAG	on Nokia tablets, rootsh is the easiest way	00:46
kamui__	well, a smart admin uses sudo when its doable	00:46
kamui__	my admins love to do shit as root	00:46
MohammadAG	kamui__, I changed the pass for user but I can't use sudo	00:46
kamui__	at work, they are complete microsoft admins going on linux noob	00:46
MohammadAG	it worked before	00:46
kamui__	I wasn't aware sudo worked on the tablets	00:47
MohammadAG	it worked on mine before	00:47
kamui__	I dont think the command is set suid root	00:47
kamui__	err the binary	00:47
v2px	60B/s from the maemo repos :S	00:47
kamui__	but I didn't explore it, I just use gainroot for the few seconds I need root access on the tablet	00:47
MohammadAG	I don't have privileges to execute binary files	00:47
MohammadAG	v2px, same here :(	00:48
Sir_Lancelot	ok	00:48
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TTilus	fremantle osso-xterm does not show utf8 chars when i ssh over to another box and attach to a screen and when i input, the app seems to get "doubly encoded" utf8, plain term seems to be fine	00:48
kamui__	irony though the maemo website is unusually nice and fast	00:48
Sir_Lancelot	just installed rootsh	00:48
Sir_Lancelot	now what?	00:48
kamui__	type root	00:48
MohammadAG	open terminal	00:48
kamui__	or sudo gainroot	00:48
MohammadAG	type root	00:48
Hexagoon	tablets-dev is awfully slow too	00:48
kamui__	use sudo gainroot if you want to gain root access at the same location you're in now	00:49
kamui__	root by itself will spawn a different shell altogether	00:49
Sir_Lancelot	ok	00:49
kamui__	I think its ash	00:49
Sir_Lancelot	and?	00:49
kamui__	nothing	00:49
kamui__	if you don't need root, don't use it until you do	00:49
kamui__	its like doing a runas in windows	00:49
Sir_Lancelot	ahhh	00:49
Sir_Lancelot	ok	00:49
Sir_Lancelot	got it	00:49
Sir_Lancelot	(Y)	00:49
kamui__	its like runas /user:domain\adminstrator cmd.exe	00:50
kamui__	ok cool	00:50
kamui__	now. Im running to the gym, maybe when I come back someone would like to help me package blender and the support libraries for the devel repo	00:50
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Sir_Lancelot	fdx...mete lá o neuron	00:52
Sir_Lancelot	upsss.wrong window :P	00:52
VDVsx	lol	00:53
lardman	as a random aside, some of the mount points do not allow binary execution	00:53
lardman	e.g. /home/user/MyDocs	00:54
lardman	iirc	00:54
SpeedEvil	vfat does not support the users	00:54
SpeedEvil	does not syupport userid	00:54
Sir_Lancelot	so, agin	00:54
Sir_Lancelot	if I want to move a file from one place to another	00:55
SpeedEvil	so being able to exec programs on it is usually a security risk	00:55
Sir_Lancelot	what's the syntax I have to use on x-term?	00:55
SpeedEvil	mv source destination	00:55
SpeedEvil	If the filenames or directories have spaces or other chars in, then mv "source" "destination"	00:56
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lardman	~curse material noise	00:58
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, material noise !	00:58
Sir_Lancelot	hummm	00:58
VDVsx	Sir_Lancelot, is almost the same as in other linux distro, you can easily find linux command references in the web	00:58
Sir_Lancelot	oki-doki	00:59
Sir_Lancelot	:)	00:59
kamui__	Sir_Lancelot, you really should read a quick tutorial, binary execution in linux is the same as almost any other os, except the local path is not added to the "PATH" by default	00:59
kamui__	now im leaving	01:00
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SpeedEvil	VDVsx: this is clearly why we need manpages	01:00
VDVsx	Sir_Lancelot, for example: phoenix.goucher.edu/~kelliher/f2006/cs245/linux1.pdf	01:00
lardman	SpeedEvil: on device?!	01:00
VDVsx	very small one, but very handy :)	01:00
Sir_Lancelot	thank you guys	01:01
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Sir_Lancelot	you've been tons usefull	01:01
Sir_Lancelot	this is why I'm a bigger fan of N900 every minute	01:01
Sir_Lancelot	ehehehe	01:01
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SpeedEvil	lardman: stick em on mydocs - how big are they - 5M?	01:05
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lardman	SpeedEvil: yeah, but reading man pages on the device will be a pita	01:07
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lardman	plus the x-term is really only deisnged for those in the know to use	01:08
* timeless_mbp returns to the scary world		01:08
lardman	i.e. those that can Google for the man pages	01:08
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ShadowJK	maybe port xman ;D	01:08
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lardman	true	01:08
lardman	but still, google is easier	01:08
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* timeless_mbp gets to see finnish news showing the train crash		01:12
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timeless_mbp	junaturma ?	01:13
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* ShadowJK googles it		01:14
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CoreFusion-	Does the FM transmitter scan for frequences that are in use when it is started?	01:18
lardman	no	01:18
CoreFusion-	in the n900*	01:18
lardman	but the chipset has the ability to do that	01:19
lardman	iirc from the spec sheet	01:19
SpeedEvil	No, but it can	01:19
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SpeedEvil	can also transmit from 76-108MHz I think	01:19
lardman	can or could?	01:20
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SpeedEvil	?	01:20
CoreFusion-	Hmm, interesting cos i was trying to use it in a bus to try and transmit to the same freq. that they were listening and it didn't allow me to select it, it always changed the freq. +0.1MHz	01:20
lardman	well atm the code's not written afaik	01:20
SpeedEvil	yeah	01:20
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lardman	CoreFusion-: interesting indeed	01:20
ShadowJK	what freuency?	01:20
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lardman	tho 0.1Hz is probably still receiving that channel anyway	01:21
SpeedEvil	.1MHz	01:21
lardman	yeah sorry	01:21
CoreFusion-	ShadowJK: 88.0	01:21
SpeedEvil	.1MHz is not close enough to reliably recieve	01:21
SpeedEvil	it is close enough to interfere	01:21
SpeedEvil	it could be that you can't set under 88.1	01:21
SpeedEvil	try it now	01:21
CoreFusion-	I chose the freq. and then started the transmitter and then the freq. was 88.1	01:22
MohammadAG	frequency starts at 88.1	01:22
MohammadAG	in Settings	01:22
MohammadAG	ends at 107.9	01:22
ShadowJK	88.1 is the lowest you can set	01:22
CoreFusion-	ok	01:23
CoreFusion-	but why?	01:23
cehteh	below 88 is illegal in many european countries, police radio and such operate there	01:23
CoreFusion-	but 88.0 isn't	01:23
MohammadAG	cehteh, so it's a hardware limitation?	01:23
cehteh	i can set mine to 88.0 iirc	01:23
ShadowJK	and at 88.1, the channel occupies 88.0-88.2	01:23
cehteh	MohammadAG: no i think its in software	01:23
MohammadAG	oh kk	01:24
SpeedEvil	region may affect it	01:24
MohammadAG	speaking of FM TX, why aren't *.5 frequencies supported	01:24
MohammadAG	Symbian allowed them	01:24
MohammadAG	like 88.25	01:24
SpeedEvil	cehteh: it can go to - I think - 76	01:24
SpeedEvil	cehteh: for japan	01:24
GAN900	Mmm . . . 40/5Mbps for only $15 more per month.	01:25
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: probably just bad software IIRC the chips pports it.	01:25
MohammadAG	or 88.2 for that matter	01:25
lardman	MohammadAG: does it depend on country? In the UK we only use 10ths of a MHz	01:25
SpeedEvil	lardman: yes	01:25
SpeedEvil	lardman: the channel spacing varies by country	01:25
MohammadAG	US device	01:25
cehteh	bandwidth of the fm channels is bigger than 0.05 mhz anyways	01:25
lcuk	i prefer imperial FM radio measurements	01:26
ShadowJK	only 10ths here too. No radio receiver will tune to .05	01:26
ifreq	any good msn-account plugin available?	01:26
lcuk	ShadowJK, technically analog ones do	01:26
lardman	MohammadAG: hw is the same, depends on the localisation	01:26
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MohammadAG	ShadowJK, cehteh does it allow 88.2	01:26
MohammadAG	US FW then	01:26
lardman	ShadowJK: N800 used to	01:26
ifreq	good = signup works, stable and it doesnt try to import msn data into contacst without asking. also it wont remove accounts from msn if you remove em from contact book.. G	01:26
lcuk	hey lardman	01:26
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MohammadAG	mine only allows 0.1/3/5/7/9	01:26
lardman	hi lcuk	01:26
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ShadowJK	I found a nice empty bit of spectrum, which is completely silent, just background static all the way to work :D	01:28
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lardman	you've done well there, mine seems to change as I drive, could do with the transmitter constantly looking for clear freqs and then jumping	01:28
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lardman	and crossing fingers that the RDS car stereo can follow it!	01:29
MohammadAG	lardman, so it does jump?	01:29
lardman	no	01:30
lardman	well the stereo does, but not the N900 ;)	01:31
ShadowJK	but it would be nice if it could	01:31
lardman	indeed	01:31
lardman	another project to add to the list of things to do....	01:31
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MohammadAG	what's the best MSN plugin?	01:31
GAN900	lardman, quit your job and lock yourself in the basement already. Sheesh.	01:32
lardman	GAN900: Why didn't I think of that!	01:32
MohammadAG	had Haze but it threw a lot of Network errors when disconnecting/reconnecting	01:32
lardman	ah, no basement	01:32
MohammadAG	lol	01:32
MohammadAG	LOL	01:32
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ShadowJK	a cellar is fine too	01:34
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b-man17	a crawlspace? meh	01:34
lardman	don't have one of those either, and if I did I think the contents might take my mind off the coding anyway ;)	01:34
lardman	^ cellar	01:35
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CoreFusion-	hmm... anyone happen to know where i might find spare parts for laser printers?	01:36
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fnordianslip	CoreFusion-: in a laser printer?	01:38
CoreFusion-	fnordianslip: haha :P The thing is, I got a Samsung CLP-315 as a christmas present, but I would prefer a network printer so i was thinking about getting the network adapter from a CLP-315W and install it on this device... :P	01:39
lardman	ebay?	01:40
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SpeedEvil	##hardware?	01:40
SpeedEvil	(not ##electronics_	01:40
fnordianslip	i never wanted a printer. i just wanted a computer everywhere i went :)	01:40
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CoreFusion-	nothing in ebay..	01:43
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ifreq	CoreFusion-: your wifi ap does not support usb devices?	01:48
ifreq	many do (ie nas boxes and printers)	01:48
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ifreq	think it would be more cheaper than separate network adapter for printer	01:48
CoreFusion-	ifreq: no it doesn't, i don't use network devices that are meant for average home users.. more like small offices	01:49
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CoreFusion-	i have a dedicated ap	01:49
ifreq	yeah well some small office stuff has also the usb port.. but what the hell was just an option. forget it then.	01:50
CoreFusion-	no offense meant	01:51
ifreq	yeah didnt take :)	01:52
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ifreq	2AM, time to get some sleep, good luck on hunting for the adapter then.	01:52
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CoreFusion-	thanks :)	01:52
fnordianslip	could somebody please pastebin a default ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg from an N900 for me :)	01:53
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jebba	this is bs. let me know when things are actually working again.	02:04
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pupnik	how?	02:06
pupnik	just hung device fnordianslip sorry ;)	02:07
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fnordianslip	pupnik, no worries, not urgent	02:08
fnordianslip	jebba: chill dude.	02:08
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TomaszD	fnordianslip, you still need it?	02:08
fnordianslip	oh go on then	02:08
TomaszD	http://paste-it.net/public/kfc2bad/	02:09
fnordianslip	TomaszD: cheers	02:10
TomaszD	np	02:10
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fnordianslip	Its just that I seem to be able to make Media Player crash when editing the NoWatchDirectory entry, and wanted to be sure I'd not buggered the file up elsewhere	02:11
lardman	night all	02:11
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TomaszD	NoWatchDirectory shouldn't make Media Player crash fnordianslip, you'll only get some critical errors in the tracker log	02:12
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fnordianslip	that's what i'd have thought. check out https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7540	02:13
povbot`	Bug 7540: Media Player crashes viewing Music by Playlist	02:13
TomaszD	that is quite a wall of text you have there	02:16
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TomaszD	fnordianslip, anything interesting in trackerd.log ?	02:17
fnordianslip	dunno. where is it?	02:17
TomaszD	/home/user/.local/share/tracker/trackerd.log off the top of my head	02:18
TomaszD	you might get an error about a .camera folder missing, I've already reported that and it's confirmed	02:18
fnordianslip	is your wall of text comment down to me not using capitalisation?	02:19
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TomaszD	no, it's ok, it's just a lot of information	02:20
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TomaszD	fnordianslip, so if you add podcast to nowatch and force re-indexing the bug doesn't occur	02:21
TomaszD	but if you don't force re-indexing, media player dies	02:21
TomaszD	?	02:21
fnordianslip	nope.	02:21
fnordianslip	if i add podcast dir to nowatch, then reindex, mp dies.	02:21
fnordianslip	if i undo that change and reindex, mp doesn't die.	02:21
fnordianslip	have now found that many other potential changes to nowatch also cause mp crash	02:22
TomaszD	but none of this happens without the massive library?	02:22
fnordianslip	dunno. you try ?	02:22
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TomaszD	tbh, I've had enough for today	02:23
TomaszD	especially with tracker	02:23
fnordianslip	assuming you haven't a 'massive' library. which mine isn't :)	02:23
TomaszD	which died on me very often today	02:23
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fnordianslip	don't fancy the 3 hour wait to resync the library	02:23
fnordianslip	tracker very well behaved for me, except this issue	02:23
fnordianslip	runs well and quickly	02:23
pupnik	'well behaved'. look when you open media player, you have to wait for many seconds for it to pull up thumbnails, and watch while it sorts them	02:24
TomaszD	yes, but if you screw up adding mimetypes, it'll segfault and kill your dog	02:24
MohammadAG	found a bug :/	02:24
MohammadAG	suppose a song's playing, and you're chatting, what would you use the volume keys for?	02:24
pupnik	changing font size	02:24
fnordianslip	zooming?	02:24
MohammadAG	lol	02:24
TomaszD	MohammadAG, that's already fixed.	02:24
MohammadAG	where?	02:24
TomaszD	in the future	02:25
MohammadAG	lol	02:25
TomaszD	:)	02:25
TomaszD	no, seriously, it's fixed	02:25
pupnik	oh so when media is playing my application can't see the +/- buttons anymore	02:25
MohammadAG	gonna vote for it :p	02:25
pupnik	?	02:25
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MohammadAG	actually I don't mind it zooming, but it should at least reflow the text!	02:26
pupnik	that is an option i think	02:26
TomaszD	when you chat the volume buttons adjust volume for PR1.1	02:26
TomaszD	so don't bother	02:26
pupnik	chat in WHAT APP?	02:26
TomaszD	conversations app	02:26
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pupnik	ok nm	02:26
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pupnik	those buttons should be relevant to current app, not background processes	02:27
pupnik	like the keyboard	02:27
TomaszD	well, afair, adjusting text size was unintended	02:27
MohammadAG	again, I don't mind it, but it should reflow the text	02:27
fnordianslip	TomaszD: just reindex with the podcasts dir in nowatch, and nothing interesting in the tracker log. mp still errors.	02:28
angasule	>:\| I hate this bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2747	02:28
povbot`	Bug 2747: inconsistent mmc device naming at boot time when one card is missing	02:28
TomaszD	fnordianslip, very strange	02:28
MohammadAG	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5624	02:28
povbot`	Bug 5624: Zoom in/out in IM chat does not reflow contents	02:28
TomaszD	nice, so maybe it'll come back later as a feature	02:29
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TomaszD	the current version I have adjusts volume	02:29
Kamui	wow, that mysticrokks is a pure troll	02:30
Kamui	I haven't read a single post from him that isn'	02:30
Kamui	t derogatory to the OP or just purely not helpful	02:30
Kamui	first official test of the N900 in real world settings for me	02:35
Kamui	closed the 8 hour work day with about 50% battery life, received about 90 jabber IM's on it while connected to wifi. Im impressed	02:36
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Kamui	then 1 hour of podcast at the gym, no charges and its at 50%. I think this is a definite winner. Could definately go rbiger battery though.	02:37
Kamui	Any news on the N97 battery fitting?	02:37
timeless_mbp	wtf?	02:38
MohammadAG	mugen said they're making a higher capacity one	02:38
timeless_mbp	OpenVPN requires Bash?	02:38
Kamui	yea, Im still waiting o that	02:38
Kamui	but I'd HEARD that the N97 batteries fit	02:38
Kamui	both the regular 1800mah and the extended 4amp	02:39
Kamui	obviously the 4amp needs a new back	02:39
timeless_mbp	hrm	02:39
zash	woot?	02:39
Kamui	just wondering if anyone had confirmed it	02:39
MohammadAG	no, they don't	02:39
zash	4Ah?	02:39
MohammadAG	Assuming you meant the 3600mAh one	02:39
Kamui	yea, 3900mah N97 extended	02:39
Kamui	maybe it was 3600	02:39
MohammadAG	3600	02:39
Kamui	but yes	02:39
GAN900	Kamui, why would a BP-4L fit?	02:39
GAN900	Kamui, pinwise, sure, but it's too large for the battery bay.	02:40
Kamui	GAN900, I don't know, I only own the N95, an N80, and the N900	02:40
Kamui	so I can't compare them	02:40
dnaumov	Kamui: heh, I went from N80 to an N95 8gb to an N900	02:40
Kamui	just read that on a blog	02:40
Kamui	ha ha, same fo rme dnaumov	02:40
dnaumov	Kamui: looking back now, N80 was all kinds of horrible if we are honest :P	02:40
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Kamui	I did have the iPhone 2g, 3g, and 3gs in between the N95 and N900	02:40
Kamui	yea	02:40
Kamui	The N80 was awesome	02:41
* Jaffa has an N97 here. Battery much larger physically; doesn't fit in N900		02:41
dnaumov	N95 8gb is really really good tho	02:41
Kamui	except it had too little memory	02:41
Kamui	and BAD battery life	02:41
Kamui	it was what lead me to the N95	02:41
Kamui	I love dthe N95	02:41
Kamui	I actually had the N95-3	02:41
dnaumov	my fiance got my n95 8gb	02:41
Kamui	with an 8gig sim	02:41
Kamui	I wanted the N95-4	02:41
dnaumov	now that I am using the N900	02:41
Kamui	but It was like 200$ cheaper to get the N95-3	02:41
dnaumov	she replaced some truly horrible "clamshell" s40 nokia	02:41
Kamui	take the .5" screen size loss	02:42
Kamui	ha ha	02:42
Kamui	dnaumov, I had the 9300 communicator for a while too	02:42
Kamui	wow	02:42
Kamui	that was a piece of doodoo	02:42
dnaumov	oh god	02:42
dnaumov	9300	02:42
Kamui	9300i to boot	02:42
Kamui	2nd worst device I've ever owned	02:42
Kamui	I was in love iwth it fo rabout 1 week	02:42
Kamui	then realized just how limiting it was	02:42
TomaszD	I had all sorts of Siemens phones before going for the e61 initially, then the e51, now n900	02:43
Kamui	I really considered the e90 for a while, but decided against it. There were all types of reports of software not supporting the non standard resolution	02:43
dnaumov	Kamui: you wouldnt believe the amount of small business users who got the 9300 and then I had to watch their faces when they called us up (I work at a major mobile/internet provider) and I got to tell them it does not actually have FAX support	02:43
Kamui	lol	02:43
MohammadAG	i went from the 6680 to N95 to N97 (sold) to the N73 (really unproductive period) to the N86 and finally the N900	02:43
dnaumov	well not watch their faces, but I could imagine them pretty well	02:43
Kamui	dnaumov, I had an efaxing app on my 9300, it was mostly useless though	02:44
Kamui	you're talking about native fax support righ	02:44
VDVsx	Jaffa, do you like the N97, I had one for a couple of weeks, didn't like it very much :)	02:44
Kamui	I noticed that its in the firmware, but it never worked...that must be why	02:44
TomaszD	yeah Jaffa, why do you even have the n97 in the first place? :)	02:44
SplasPood	I loved my N95, one of the best phones I've ever owned.	02:45
Kamui	well, I hear the N97 mini is pretty nice	02:45
dnaumov	Kamui: we cashed in on that and offered them an auto-answermachine converter service, they were given an additional mobile number which they could give out to people, if you sent a FAX to it, what is technically a gsm answer machine picked it up, converted the fax into a PDF and mailed it to the user via email	02:45
Kamui	if you're looking for a consumer ready S60v5	02:45
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TomaszD	the n95 was and still is great, my father refuses to upgrade from it	02:45
Kamui	lol dnaumov sounds just like the efax service I had	02:45
VDVsx	mine N97 has a loan, one of the first release, it seems that the current fw version is much better	02:45
VDVsx	*was	02:45
dnaumov	Kamui: it was a truly ugly hack, but it worked and it worked perfectly and we saved people time and money and cashed in some serious $	02:45
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Kamui	nice	02:46
MohammadAG	had the N97 from v10	02:46
MohammadAG	sold it when it got v20	02:47
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dnaumov	TomaszD: I dont blame him, N95 8gb is the best phone with pda features, while N900 is the best pda with phone features :)	02:50
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TomaszD	dnaumov, he has the basic model with the card slot, but indeed an 8gb card	02:50
Kamui	dnaumov, I hate to say it	02:50
Kamui	but the N900 has TERRIBLE phone features	02:50
Kamui	well	02:50
Kamui	not terrible	02:51
Kamui	but incomplete	02:51
TomaszD	not terrible phone features.	02:51
SpeedEvil	do you mean software wise/	02:51
TomaszD	yes.	02:51
Kamui	no, I love the N900s dialer and functionality	02:51
Kamui	its just that its "lacking"	02:51
SplasPood	Thankfully I have not encountered many 'issues' with the N900 that appear to be tied to hardware	02:51
Kamui	yea, every issue I've had has been software related	02:51
dnaumov	its finally a phone that actually 1) has 900 Mhz UMTS support 2) is not retarded	02:51
dnaumov	that alone is a seller for me :p	02:51
Kamui	see im bummed	02:51
Kamui	I willingly lost 3g to get the N900	02:52
Kamui	who would think they would put tmobiles ridiculous frequency instead of the NATiONWIDE At&T freq	02:52
dnaumov	ah, you got screwed on that, we dont have that problem in Finland :)	02:52
Kamui	yea, I know you jerk :)	02:53
Kamui	but its ok	02:53
Kamui	Im mostly always in wifi coverage	02:53
Kamui	and the N900 does wifi wonderfully	02:53
* simula_ sticks to prepaid telephone and wifi		02:53
redeeman	Kamui: at&t uses the ridiculous frequency	02:53
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MohammadAG	redeeman, if they changed it they'd lose the iPhone	02:53
Kamui	it uses standard us gsm frequency 1900mhz IIRC	02:53
Kamui	or 850, or both, Im not sure	02:53
Kamui	but the point is, its not an obscure frequency in the 1700mhz band	02:54
MohammadAG	oh wait, doesn't the iPhone support the t-mobile 3G too?	02:54
Kamui	that NOTHING else uses	02:54
Kamui	no	02:54
Kamui	it doenst	02:54
redeeman	Kamui: rest of the world doesn't use 850mhz	02:54
Kamui	iphone is 850/1900/2100 only for umts	02:54
Kamui	I know	02:54
Kamui	2100mhz was in use in the US when 3g gsm rolled out	02:54
Kamui	I believe its now only recently become a free band	02:54
Kamui	if thats the case	02:54
Kamui	I think its up for auction in 2012	02:55
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Kamui	I read about this in 08, so some of my facts might be slighly off	02:55
Kamui	mainly dates	02:55
jX	Kamui: No, you're mostly right	02:55
Kamui	anyway, I don't argue that it would have been nice had the US implemented 2100mhz for Umts	02:56
Kamui	I wouldn't have een locked out of enjoying an ASSLOAD of good devices	02:56
Kamui	my second favorite device of all time was the HTC Exec	02:56
Kamui	but I was unfortunate enough to get only GPRS on it	02:56
Kamui	no edge, only gprs and umts	02:56
Kamui	and umts was 2100mhz only on that beauty	02:56
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angasule	I can't get ad-hoc working or USB networking :(	02:57
Kamui	and unfortunately, if you didn't have the 3800mah battery that trippled its size, using wifi yielded about 2 hours of battery life	02:57
Kamui	AND wifi didn't stay connected of course when the phone slept	02:57
Kamui	but I digress	02:57
angasule	I had to stand on the sidewalk outside a bar to check my mail today (yeah, I work in one of the main buildings of the largest ISP in the country but they don't have proper wifi...)	02:58
Kamui	the N900 is a masterpiece,	02:58
Kamui	eww, that sucks	02:58
SplasPood	Much like all phones it doesn't seem to understand the concept of 'always try and reconnect' as it relates to IM transports	02:58
Kamui	at my office we use EAP-FAST for authentication	02:58
Kamui	no support on the N900 for eap-fast yet	02:58
angasule	I had never heard of EAP-FAST :?	02:59
Kamui	just peap, and eap-tls iirc	02:59
Kamui	eap-fast is ciscos fast EAP authentication based on DC login credentials	02:59
Kamui	no token	02:59
Kamui	no certificate I meant	02:59
Kamui	the token is built from the DC to the eap controller	03:00
angasule	third largest telecom companies in the world (just checked)	03:00
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leon-	hmm, ioquake3 doesn't install and keeps bitchin about a missing package (opengles-sgx-img-common)	03:01
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Kamui	openarena is the way to go :)	03:02
Kamui	haven't tried ioquake3 yet, so thats not a very objective comment	03:03
nomis	bah, I can't reliably influence the order in the icon view for the videos within the media player.	03:03
leon-	well, I did have it up and running already	03:03
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leon-	Kamui, hmm.. openarena has the same issue	03:04
Kamui	what happens?	03:04
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angasule	oh, well	03:20
angasule	whenever I try to use USB networking the n810 just reboots itself	03:20
Kamui	anyone have Mplayer working ont eh N900	03:22
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pupnik	yes	03:22
Kamui	tried the version in extras-devel	03:22
Kamui	but it freezes after 2 seconds	03:22
pupnik	try a different file	03:22
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Kamui	I've been trying mytube	03:22
Kamui	ill try something manually	03:22
SpeedEvil	wfm	03:22
pupnik	youtube may be too slow to stream	03:23
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pupnik	anybody here use anything to reformat / indent C code?	03:23
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pupnik	ah 'man indent'	03:24
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Kamui	works	03:25
Kamui	but its quite a bit slow	03:25
Kamui	the audio is way behind the image	03:25
Kamui	probably just need to adjust some flags	03:26
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Kamui	pupnik	03:27
Kamui	using a frontend?	03:27
Kamui	or just the terminal	03:27
angasule	this is exasperating, I have no way of getting stuff into my N810, no card reader, no USB networking and no wifi ad-hoc :(	03:28
fnordianslip	angasule: bluetooth ?	03:29
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angasule	nope	03:29
fnordianslip	why not?	03:29
angasule	I don't have any bluetooth devices?	03:30
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fnordianslip	your 810 is your best equipped device then?	03:30
angasule	it's the only one with bluetooth	03:30
angasule	my laptop has wifi and USB, but I can't get either of those to play nice with the n810	03:31
angasule	I'm thinking the n810 is at fault in the ad-hoc case, but for USB, both are giving me attitude	03:31
lcuk	angasule,	03:31
lcuk	setup a new connection on the n810	03:31
lcuk	make it adhoc unprotected	03:31
pupnik	Kamui: you are probably playing a file too heavy for mplayer	03:32
pupnik	so how do we get needed build-deps into sdk repoi?	03:32
pupnik	i keep building deps in scratchbox	03:32
lcuk	assign an ip address subnet and dns manually	03:32
pupnik	and that work isn't shared	03:32
lcuk	then connect to it from the n810	03:32
lcuk	reboot your laptop	03:33
angasule	lcuk: for some reason, the n810 insists my ad-hoc has WEP, if I set it up with WEP, it claims to connect correctly, but ifconfig says it has 100% TX errors	03:33
lcuk	and the new connection should be visible	03:33
lcuk	i use adhoc extensively	03:33
lcuk	this is the simplest route	03:33
angasule	oh :?	03:33
Kamui	damn	03:33
angasule	funky	03:33
Kamui	pupnik	03:33
Kamui	thats ok, the default player works fine	03:33
angasule	you connect to the n810 itself? :?	03:33
Kamui	I just wanted to use mytube	03:33
lcuk	yes	03:33
lcuk	go to connect and the adhoc connection you created is listed	03:33
angasule	thanks, I'll give that a try :D	03:33
Kamui	it plays the files perfectly strangely enough	03:34
lcuk	its an always available local based hotspot	03:34
lcuk	then, when you see it on your pc	03:34
lcuk	connect	03:34
Kamui	so, one question pupnik, how would I disable compositing when running a specifi app	03:34
Kamui	do you know	03:34
lcuk	it wont find ip addresses, but will create the correct type of connection profile	03:34
lcuk	edit that profile and fill in the required ip addresses and it should work nicely	03:34
pupnik	Kamui: the speed of the cpu is comparable to perhaps a 300 mhz pentium. If you have one of those, try playing videos on it.	03:34
lcuk	ive used this method to connect to other 8x0s, between my 8x0s and 900s and laptop and desktop machines	03:35
lcuk	the adhoc works well :)	03:35
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Kamui	pupnik, Im playing a 480p version of robot chicken star wars special avi, I don't know what codec was used	03:35
Kamui	but it works perefectly with the built in player	03:35
pupnik	mplayer tells you all that when it plays	03:35
pupnik	and 480p is heavy stuff.	03:36
Kamui	mpeg4	03:37
derf	The CPU is considerably better than a 300 MHz PII.	03:37
lcuk	hey, pupnik mightv meant a celeron 300a, that could run at 450mhz	03:37
pupnik	depends on what you are running. what would you compare it to	03:37
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jaska	celeron266 ran at 400-450 too :) (the l2-cacheless one :)	03:38
lcuk	its got a kickass graphics card this time round too	03:38
pupnik	500mhz p2?	03:38
Kamui	how about disabling compositing	03:38
jaska	without a fan, just a heatsink	03:38
pupnik	CPU	03:38
Kamui	how is that done pupnik	03:38
Kamui	I want to try that with blender before I break the build with the wrapper	03:38
derf	Well, Theora ran at just about real-time for 720x480 on a 300 MHz PII.	03:38
derf	It's almost 2x real-time on the DSP.	03:38
pupnik	mplayer Nokia_N900.mp4	03:38
pupnik	CPU	03:38
derf	And the ARM can just about do 720p (about 2.67x better).	03:39
ali1234	300MHz PII is the slowest x86 that can play DVDs in software	03:39
pupnik	hahaha	03:39
pupnik	right, and mplayer running only on CPU is roughly at 300mhz PentiumII	03:39
fnordianslip	lcuk: does that adhoc wifi approach work on the n900 too?	03:39
pupnik	that's fast. look at what a 300mhz PII sucks for power.	03:40
lcuk	fnordianslip, indeed it does	03:40
lcuk	whenever my router dies, i just "meh" and switch connection to adhoc	03:40
fnordianslip	lcuk: aah. interesting	03:40
lcuk	works great on a train or in hotel	03:40
ali1234	pupnik: yeah well it is over 10 year old technology	03:40
fnordianslip	cane the devices battery much?	03:40
lcuk	not noticably bad for me, and right now its even better	03:41
lcuk	cos ive changed where i build software now, cpou isnt running gcc all the time ;)	03:41
lcuk	normally when i need it, ive got usb lead available from laptop anyway	03:42
lcuk	so its not noticable	03:42
fnordianslip	thanks. cool tip	03:43
fnordianslip	btw, does avahi work now on the n900?	03:43
lcuk	dunno, think i saw an update, not sure tho	03:45
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fnordianslip	cheers. it would be nice if that worked and the hosts used link local address assignments :)	03:47
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iluvulcuk	:D	03:48
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angasule_	lcuk: thanks a bunch! you totally saved the day :D	03:49
* lcuk waves @ another admirer		03:49
* iluvulcuk waves back		03:49
lcuk	:D	03:49
angasule_	wicd failed to connect, no idea why, but I just connected manually, with the n810 as the beacon it was easy :D	03:50
pupnik	built: install-info_4.13a.dfsg.1-5_armel.deb texinfo_4.13a.dfsg.1-5_armel.deb	03:51
pupnik	indent_2.2.10-2_armel.deb	03:51
lcuk	pupnik, if i show you some code, could you try to decipher how to make indent make all code look the same	03:52
lcuk	ie to use the style i could show you	03:52
pupnik	i haven't learned how to use it yet :)	03:52
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Kamui	so my picture problem is that "tracker" is indexing the folder the unwanted images are in?	03:56
lcuk	balls, the bottle of milk is frozen \@/	03:56
Aranel	is appwatch 0.7 available at -devel?	03:56
pupnik	lcuk: i want tabs in the source. spaces are annoying	03:56
lcuk	i agree, but only if sizeof(tab) == 4*space	03:56
pupnik	yeah	03:57
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pupnik	vi :set tabstop=4	04:00
angasule_	the beauty of tabs is that you can set them to whatever you want :)	04:01
angasule_	I set mine to 0, it looks great!	04:01
* angasule_ installs a bunch of stuff		04:02
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pupnik	dangit unexpand isn't working for me either	04:03
angasule_	does OpenAL-Soft work on ARM? :?	04:04
pupnik	i know people have built it, but i haven't heard sound from it	04:06
pupnik	if you have a source tree for it that builds, please share, btw	04:07
angasule_	hmm, I don't, at all, I just did a package search	04:07
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angasule_	I don know the developer, I was going to port my graphical (qt4) configuration utility of it, but not much point till it works :P	04:08
angasule_	so, I guess I need scratchpad	04:08
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MohammadAG	nn	04:09
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pupnik	angasule_: http://bundyo.com/things/libopenal1_1.10.622-1_armel.deb http://bundyo.com/things/libopenal-dev_1.10.622-1_armel.deb http://bundyo.com/things/libopenal1-dbg_1.10.622-1_armel.deb	04:10
angasule_	pupnik: but no sound from those?	04:10
pupnik	i don't know, i can't get the game to run atm	04:10
angasule_	does n810 use alsa?	04:10
pupnik	those are built for n900 btw	04:11
angasule_	oh, bummerous	04:11
angasule_	do you have an n810 or n900?	04:11
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angasule_	I'm talking with the OpenAL-Soft developer on #openal , and passing the info :)	04:13
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pupnik	pupnik.de/libopenal0a_0.0.8-4_armel.deb old build which should work on n810 if you force it	04:15
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angasule_	hmm, that's the old Sample Implementation, I'd rather not use that :-)	04:17
angasule_	I'll work on getting a new alsoft version on the n810	04:17
Kamui	hey	04:18
Kamui	how do I get tracker to reindex the phone	04:18
angasule_	so does the n810 use alsa? or oss? or something else?	04:18
Kamui	I added an exclusion, but the content is still in the index	04:18
Kamui	I need to clear the "private" folders I marked out	04:19
jX	anyone wanna buy an N810?	04:19
angasule_	how much?	04:19
jX	includes a 4GB microSD and a micro to mini adapter!	04:19
Kamui	will deleting the sqlite-db.pragmas file do it?	04:19
jX	say, 200?	04:19
Kamui	not a bad deal jx	04:19
jX	original case, stylus, new screen as of this year (old one got a crack in it) new battery	04:19
jX	even original box.	04:19
jX	and that plastic mount for your car	04:20
matthew-	How to check my n900's IMEI ?	04:20
jX	matthew-: under teh battery, or in Settings > About	04:20
Kamui	matthew-, go to about in settings	04:20
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matthew-	yeah	04:21
matthew-	thanks	04:21
jX	np	04:21
matthew-	x x	04:21
matthew-	:)	04:21
matthew-	anyone else having a bad day?	04:21
Kamui	me	04:21
Kamui	Im figuring out a lot of shit the hard way	04:21
jX	me	04:21
Kamui	and it sucks	04:22
pwnguin	yay sgtpuzzles	04:22
jX	I have to keep fucking up Kamui's things so he stops trying to do things the easy way and it's getting annoying.	04:22
* Kamui slaps jX with a sock that has been stuffed with other socks		04:23
jX	oh noes!	04:23
jX	http://burntelectrons.org/media/onoz.gif	04:23
matthew-	i lost $483,000.30 today	04:23
lcuk	Kamui, i thought tracker was documented	04:23
lcuk	its part of gnome isnt it?	04:23
jX	that's funny, I found $483,000.30 today	04:23
Kamui	it is	04:24
jX	by the snack machine	04:24
Kamui	lcuk thats how I figured it out	04:24
lcuk	so does the documentation tell you how to reset its cache	04:24
Kamui	the hard way	04:24
Kamui	:)	04:24
Kamui	yea	04:24
lcuk	what? rtfm?	04:24
Kamui	tracker-processes -r	04:24
lcuk	"hard way"	04:24
Kamui	that clears and resets the cache	04:24
jX	matthew-: how'd you lose half a million bucks?	04:24
Kamui	lcuk, I dind't know it was a standard app	04:24
matthew-	jX: :-)	04:24
lcuk	me neither	04:24
Kamui	so I did a lot of googling, and finally discovered some documentation	04:24
matthew-	jX: im a trader	04:24
lcuk	well done on investigating it, did you solve it?	04:24
Kamui	which I read through	04:24
Kamui	ye	04:24
Kamui	s	04:24
lcuk	theres a bug report regarding this	04:25
jX	matthew-: To your friends or to your country? ;)	04:25
Kamui	.config/tracker/tracker.cfg	04:25
pwnguin	matthew-: so you lost someone elses money :)	04:25
lcuk	where i queried whether it was possible to exclude	04:25
jX	matthew-: Find out what transceiver package the 900 uses?	04:25
Kamui	add to the exclude line, and then run that command to delete the caches	04:25
matthew-	:D	04:25
Kamui	its reindexing now	04:25
lcuk	yeah, i dunno how to reset cache though and was waiting till i next needed it	04:25
matthew-	jX: no, didnt go to the office today	04:25
jX	trader	04:25
matthew-	will go on thursday	04:25
jX	TRADER!	04:25
jX	This is treesun!	04:25
Kamui	lcuk, the good thing about it is that I don't dislike being self reliant, I just hate redoing something that Im sure a dozen people have already asked and answered	04:25
leon-	somehow adding contacts is not producing any links to my desktop, argh..	04:25
Kamui	and I suck, buecause it IS on talk.maemo.org	04:26
lcuk	its been asked	04:26
Kamui	sigh	04:26
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lcuk	but not often	04:26
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matthew-	pwnguin: well, yeah	04:26
matthew-	still my bonus ;-)	04:26
pwnguin	psh	04:26
matthew-	and most of my clients is friends and family	04:26
matthew-	bad RIMM	04:27
matthew-	bad!	04:27
pwnguin	if it makes you feel better, my porfolio is down 20 percent from last year	04:27
matthew-	if it makes you feel better, mine is 96% up since 24-01-2009	04:28
pwnguin	oh well thats cheating	04:28
pwnguin	actually not much difference	04:29
matthew-	its small portfolio thou	04:29
pwnguin	size is the enemy of return	04:29
pupnik	what's your guess for USD/EUR through jan-feb.	04:29
matthew-	pwnguin: i dont do Forex	04:29
matthew-	pwnguin: yeah	04:30
pwnguin	usd/eur doesn't matter as much as usd/rmb and that's a political calculation	04:30
matthew-	i dont think ill go over 250m on one portfolio	04:30
matthew-	exposure that is	04:32
* pwnguin just finished watching Shiller's Financial Markets lectures online yesterday		04:32
pwnguin	quite interesting in a couple ways	04:32
pwnguin	his guest speakers were kinda misleading	04:33
matthew-	;]	04:33
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pupnik	heh, apple lisa, ebay, $1300	04:34
pwnguin	one guy claims his 28 percent annual return for 10 years was about diversity	04:34
pwnguin	but then he lets slip he shorted .coms in the crash and shorted housing this time	04:34
doc\|home	he shorted both of those and he only made 28%?	04:35
derf	Diversity is the enemy of return just as much as size is.	04:35
pwnguin	doc\|home: 28 percent for ten years	04:35
doc\|home	that's actually kinda lame	04:35
derf	Most people only have a handful of really good ideas.	04:35
doc\|home	especially if you've the foresight to short two of the biggest bubbles in history	04:36
pwnguin	doc\|home: you dont understand	04:36
SpeedEvil	derf: And Newton and Edison thought of them first.	04:36
pupnik	btw if you think apple designs are great... http://cgi.ebay.de/Apple-eMate-300-Apple-Newton-in-working-condition_W0QQitemZ290386706212QQcmdZViewItemQQptZKlassische_Computer?hash=item439c657f24	04:36
pwnguin	its not 28 percent those two year	04:36
doc\|home	pwnguin: I understood that	04:36
pwnguin	its 28 percent every year for ten, or perhaps 200 percent two years and average otherwise	04:36
cehteh	uhm .. i still wait to see many newton feature on todays devices :/	04:36
cehteh	the newton clipboard was awesome	04:37
derf	It's almost 1,200% total.	04:37
doc\|home	pwnguin: yeah, but the housing crash and dotcom bubbles were far greater	04:37
doc\|home	-s	04:37
pwnguin	doc\|home: how the hell do you gain more than 100 percent from a short?	04:37
pwnguin	in an endowment setting	04:37
derf	Options.	04:37
pwnguin	anyways, im guessing his main tool is access to yale graduates	04:38
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pwnguin	another guest speaker mentioned how they took an airline private with a partner	04:39
pwnguin	turns out a few months after that lecture was given their partner was arrested for running a ponzi scheme	04:39
pwnguin	anyways, more important things are at hand	04:40
pwnguin	why is extras-devel not working for me?	04:41
pwnguin	"no hash entry in release file"	04:41
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nomis	argh. I renamed a file and the media player insists on showing the old name. It even still plays the video.	04:48
nomis	how do I force a re-run of the meta-tracker?	04:49
pupnik	linux can detect filename changes, can't it. that should update tracker.	04:53
pupnik	but maybe there will someday be a package for us to get folder-based media player	04:53
pupnik	for people who can manage their own directories	04:54
pupnik	oh and whoever changed 'ls' to improperly sort my _files, die in a fire	04:54
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nomis	pupnik: yeah, I hate this "oh, who cares about directories"-approach.	05:00
nomis	it already gets crowded with 32 videos.	05:01
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nomis	at least I managed to disable the always-changing-icon-depending-on-where-I-pause-the-video.	05:02
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pupnik	i find that kind of useful though	05:10
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pupnik	except when the icon breaks	05:10
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Kamui	have any copies of 1.1 test versions leaked?	05:18
Kamui	I'd really like to see where its at right now	05:18
Kamui	Im thinking about reflashing and starting over anyway, now that I know what I should do to prevent rootfs from filling up so easily	05:18
GAN900	Kamui, first and only warning. :)	05:19
GAN900	Kamui, do not solicite pre-release firmwares in this channel.	05:19
Kamui	dude	05:19
Kamui	Im sorry	05:19
Kamui	I should have read the rules	05:19
Kamui	my fault, done, and done.	05:19
GAN900	Thanks. :)	05:20
GAN900	Understand that Nokia is extending a lot of faith in the community by distributing prerelease firmware under no NDA	05:20
doc\|home	faith about ... ?	05:20
GAN900	anything that jeopardizes that behavior in the future is undesireable. :)	05:21
Kamui	I didn't think this community fw would be as big a secretive deal as apple, but I totally understand what you're saying	05:21
GAN900	doc\|home, not leaking it, not discussing the content with bloggers, etc.	05:21
doc\|home	GAN900: hmmm, why don't they just do it in the open?	05:22
GAN900	Kamui, Apple doesn't distribute pre-release stuff not under NDAs. ;)	05:22
doc\|home	methinks the point of open source is being missed somewhat :/	05:22
Kamui	they do to developers and its under NDAs	05:22
pupnik	anybody try building QMMP?	05:23
Kamui	betas are gettable by anyone but its not easy work, hardly an issue here anyway, I was just curious as to what to expect	05:23
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Kamui	im done with the iphone I think anyway, N900 is the way of my future ;	05:23
Kamui	)	05:23
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GAN900	doc\|home, a variety of reasons varying from third party stuff (Flash, etc.) to having dinosaurs and a lot inertia behind the current arrangement	05:23
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GAN900	doc\|home, the open source stuff is nearly all available from git or svn	05:24
* doc\|home nods		05:24
GAN900	Kamui, we're working towards a more open-friendly arrangement	05:24
GAN900	This is the first step	05:24
GAN900	Unfortunately, big ships turn slow.	05:24
Kamui	well, Im not crying, Q1 release is close enough, plus from all the talk, I feel like it will be this month	05:25
Kamui	:)	05:25
GAN900	But if we can demonstrate that this will benefit Nokia (i.e., point management at all the pretty bugs the prerelease testers have filed)	05:26
Flandry-sleep	dbus, wherefore art thou	05:26
GAN900	then we can work towards more in the future.	05:26
Flandry-sleep	is there any dbus services listing for fremantle?	05:26
Flandry-sleep	any introspection software i could use to discover same	05:27
GAN900	Kamui, so the problem with leaks is that management may go, "Oh, well, all that got us was leaked pre-release software, bad press and troubled relations with our vendors"	05:27
GAN900	Since they, by and large, don't really "get" open source.	05:27
Kamui	yea, I see your point	05:28
ljp	Flandry-sleep: I have used qdbus on the n900, but you'll need qt libs	05:28
Kamui	it seems to me that a disclaimer and download for registered developers might better the situation	05:28
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Flandry	qdbus eh	05:28
GAN900	Kamui, give it 6 months and we'll see where we are.	05:29
GAN900	Kamui, how bugzilla savy are you?	05:29
ljp	Flandry: but that doesnt get built by default when building Qt	05:29
Flandry	it would be nice if nokia would publish a list of the interfaces for their proprietary stuff	05:29
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Flandry	ok it will have to be another day then, thanks	05:30
Kamui	GAN900, well, Im in a good place right now, not too rough to wait it out	05:30
ljp	there is always dbus-monitor :)	05:30
GAN900	http://tinyurl.com/yey5upe	05:31
GAN900	Rough list of most of the issues resolved in PR1.1	05:31
GAN900	A few are 1.2	05:32
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Flandry	oh	05:39
Flandry	dbus-monitor is cool, but i don't think it's going to get me what i need	05:39
ljp	Flandry: if it's introspectable, then qdbus is easy to use	05:40
Flandry	alright i'll check it out then, thanks	05:41
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papo	hrm	05:41
papo	I'm not sure whether I should buy and apply that zagg shield	05:41
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Kamui	GAN900, really never use bugzilla, but I've used it a few times to report bugs in other apps. Nothing I couldn't handle ;)	05:50
pupnik	nice fixes!	05:50
pupnik	try searching for bugs	05:51
pupnik	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6100 yea just remove copy and paste from menu	05:53
povbot`	Bug 6100: The menu item "copy" in the browser menu does not work	05:53
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Kamui	damn	06:00
Kamui	first time im seeing the accelerometer bug	06:00
Kamui	the eyes widget is randomly bouncing from down to up	06:00
Kamui	and rotating the phone wont trigger the dialer	06:00
Kamui	time for a cold boot	06:00
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GAN900	Kamui, wasn't sure if you knew your way around search enough to generate that list.	06:09
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mfinkle	GAN900: have you tried installing fennec on an n900?	06:13
GAN900	mfinkle, not since the earlu betas.	06:14
mfinkle	we had some reports that the deb was not installing into /opt and wanted to know if anyone was saw it too	06:14
GAN900	s/earlu/early/	06:14
infobot	GAN900 meant: mfinkle, not since the early betas.	06:14
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GAN900	mfinkle, installing now. . . .	06:15
`0660	what's the quickest way to type ä and ö in n900 with us layout?	06:17
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`0660	or do i just need to enable the virtual keyboard somehow...	06:17
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GAN900	Fn-Sym	06:18
GAN900	mfinkle, appears to be installing properly to /opt	06:19
Flandry	omg there's a goto in this source	06:20
`0660	thanks!	06:21
Kamui	that, GAN900, is a HUGE list	06:22
Kamui	the next firmware release is going to be insanely clean	06:22
mfinkle	GAN900: thanks for checking	06:23
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luke-jr	Flandry: goto still is sometimes the best way to do things, even if rare :p	06:33
luke-jr	comes with the language being functional	06:33
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KamuiN900	lcuk	06:42
KamuiN900	rebooted the phone	06:42
KamuiN900	works again	06:42
lcuk	could you post a followup vid showing that	06:43
* lucent blinks		06:46
lucent	I wonder, would Ovi Store arrive with the new firmware for N900?	06:46
lucent	is one holding up the release of the other?	06:46
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Arkenoi	http://www.loopinsight.com/2010/01/04/device-turns-iphone-ipod-touch-into-universal-remote/ haha losers	06:54
lucent	Arkenoi: does the IR from N900 transmit 30ft or better?	06:56
matthew-	Arkenoi: why? can u use n900 as a remote ?	07:06
Arkenoi	lucent: i guess CIR should do, though i tried close range only	07:07
Arkenoi	matthew-, yes	07:07
matthew-	Arkenoi: What app?	07:07
\|R	I wish i was able to record my remote in a coherent manner to add support for it :/	07:07
Arkenoi	the problem is predefined remote database is quite limited but i successfully tried it with my old VCR (yes, i still own a VCR)	07:08
Arkenoi	qtirreco	07:08
matthew-	ah	07:08
Arkenoi	it is not known yet if recording part is possible on n900	07:08
matthew-	Arkenoi: devel or test?	07:08
Arkenoi	can't remember exactly	07:08
\|R	Arkenoi: well i thought it was not, but i was recording with a laptop...	07:08
\|R	In any case, i'm getting different result every time, go figure :(	07:09
matthew-	my battery is pissing me off ! :D	07:09
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matthew-	geez, i love the n900 :<	07:11
matthew-	i think they created a fanboi when i got it :D	07:11
matthew-	and, my other idea is to get another one and install openbsd/netbsd on it	07:12
\|R	haha, good luck :)	07:15
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Arkenoi	\|R, you do recording with generic IRDA?	07:20
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Kamui	Arkenoi, what range do you get	07:28
Kamui	I've always wondered hwo well that worked...	07:29
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Kamui	nothing, including my old ass quasar vcr worked	07:30
Kamui	and unforunately it doesn't appear that the app will let you record from another remote :(	07:30
Arkenoi	kamui: never tried more than a few meters. yep, it does not yet :-(	07:30
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\|R	Arkenoi: yeah, well, found a guide explaining how to do it... but the output is awkward	07:32
Kamui	share	07:32
Kamui	your link	07:32
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\|R	give me a sec, i have to find the forum post :)	07:33
\|R	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=430484&postcount=43	07:33
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konfoo	!!!!	07:34
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pupnik	audacity is a flaming POS	07:50
siriusnova	yeah so i just reflashed my N900	07:50
siriusnova	but its the same pos crap firmware that came with release since Nokia refuses to release an update	07:50
siriusnova	>:\|	07:50
Kamui	pupnik	07:50
Kamui	did you ever rebuild gemrb for the N900?	07:50
Kamui	wondering if that port works	07:50
pupnik	i didn't, bundyo did. it's complaining about missing files on my device	07:52
pupnik	so i might need to re-install the game	07:53
Kamui	the deb installs ok?	07:53
Kamui	has it been optified?	07:53
pupnik	sure, but you will need to config. yes, mostly	07:53
Kamui	and are we talking about 0.6 ddeb?	07:53
pupnik	yes	07:53
pupnik	and n900	07:53
Kamui	sweet	07:53
pupnik	i am working on something more my size ;)	07:54
Kamui	:)	07:54
cehteh	mhm	07:55
pupnik	cehteh: do you know how to make audacity not generate 800kB of .wav file metadata for every 10kB sample	07:57
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pupnik	how many years has that been under development? FIFTEEN?	07:58
Kamui	pupnik, u porting audacity?	07:58
cehteh	no idea	07:58
pupnik	you can totally smell the KDE-programmer stench	07:58
cehteh	how about porting ardour to n900 instead :)	08:00
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cehteh	(and while at it replace pulseaudio with jack)	08:01
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luke-jr	pupnik: Audacity is GNOME crap, idiot	08:18
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flux	luke-jr, how is ig GNOME crap? it doesn't even use any gnome libraries.	08:23
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goodwill	so here is a question ... I am using PC Suite to sync an outlook calendar to n900. I have a choice of usb or bluetooth. Anyone knows of way to sync it over the net	08:25
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goodwill	before anyone asks ... mail for exchange is not a viable option	08:25
luke-jr	flux: glib, GTK, GNOME... all the same crap	08:26
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luke-jr	just different layers of the same framework	08:27
cehteh	real men use snd	08:27
flux	luke-jr, so irssi is GNOME crap then?	08:29
luke-jr	flux: more or less	08:29
flux	well, you are entitled to your view, of course :)	08:29
RST38h	Is talk.maemo.org down?	08:30
goodwill	luke-jr: fvwm? ratpoison fan?	08:30
flux	r3no, it's just bloody slow	08:30
flux	rst38h even	08:30
RST38h	Ah, no, just very slow. Probably migrated to maemo.org servers, finally	08:30
tekojo	Morning RST38h :-)	08:30
luke-jr	goodwill: never heard of it	08:31
goodwill	luke-jr: kde?	08:31
RST38h	EHLO tekojo =)	08:31
flux	actually that makes most of Maemo GNOME-crap also, because they indeed seme to use GObject everywhere	08:31
luke-jr	goodwill: what of KDE?	08:32
flux	(most of nokia-services and GUI anyway)	08:32
goodwill	luke-jr: you do nto like gnome ... so I wonder whats your wm of choice	08:32
luke-jr	flux: indeed, though Maemo6 is supposed to be better (non-glib)	08:32
luke-jr	goodwill: I use KDE, though it is also crap (to a lesser degree)	08:32
luke-jr	Maemo 6 might have potential to be the first good environment IMO, but I have no confidence in Nokia.	08:34
goodwill	does not see anything wrong with glib	08:34
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luke-jr	glib: slow; GTK: ugly; GNOME: oversimplified	08:36
RST38h	GNOME works for me	08:36
luke-jr	great, so you either fit in GNOME's little box of how you should use it, or you don't mind letting the DE tell you how to use it rather than you telling it	08:38
goodwill	luke-jr: try fvwm ... you can tell it exactly how to behave	08:39
luke-jr	goodwill: if it's GTK, no thanks	08:40
goodwill	luke-jr: its not	08:40
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Kamui	damn	08:43
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Kamui	open al suck	08:43
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Kamui	s	08:43
Kamui	its causes pulseaudio to suck 55%+ cpu when a game/app uses it	08:43
Kamui	eithe rthat or pulseaudio has a huge buck	08:43
Kamui	bug	08:43
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flux	yeah, pulseaudio cpu consumption wonders me also. I've been hoping it's because apps use a mismatched sample rate (bug) and pulseaudio needs to resample..	08:46
flux	is there a bug about that?	08:46
Kamui	haven't looked on bugzilla yet	08:47
Kamui	ill take a look later, gotta get to bed	08:47
Kamui	other than the pulseaudio issue, gemrb runs great	08:47
Kamui	:)	08:47
* cehteh tought the DSP could do that ..		08:47
flux	cehteh, maybe it could, but.. ?	08:48
cehteh	yeah blame someone else :P	08:48
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RST38h	X-Fade: around?	09:18
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destinal	quick scratchbox2 question.. the default {prefix = "/lib", map_to = target_root}, in /usr/share/scratchbox2/lua_scripts/pathmaps/simple/00_default.lua works, but I can't make new ones like {prefix = "/usr/local", map_to = target_root}, .. any idea what I'm doing wrong?	09:34
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Ceron	http://www.lachschon.de/images/61357_i_cant_let_you_do_that_dave.jpg	10:12
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Markus23	good morning!	10:22
pupnik	moo	10:22
Markus23	is it possible to open a new window for the browser in background?	10:22
Markus23	I sometimes want to open several windows and look at them later	10:22
Markus23	especially when reading rss	10:22
Markus23	is this supported?	10:22
homeasvs	X-Fade, ping	10:23
kaudio	yes	10:25
Markus23	kaudio: how can I change this behaviour?	10:25
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RST38h	hey pupnik	10:28
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pupnik	hi RST38h	10:35
pupnik	sis you check out psx4all?	10:35
pupnik	did	10:35
pupnik	kinda fun to see it chugging	10:36
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RST38h	pupnik: Naah, I never had PSX to begin with	10:47
RST38h	So it is all kinda alien to me	10:48
pupnik	yeah that makes it not fun	10:48
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pupnik	retro is for the vibes	10:48
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pupnik	i would have been a clockmaker in midieval europe	10:49
pupnik	makin gears mesh	10:49
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:51
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dmj726	hmm...this whole camera thing is really handy.	11:04
tybollt	how so	11:05
pupnik	cause it doesnt suck	11:05
dmj726	I managed to use it to take a video of my hot chocolate, showing the consistency it should be since everyone is asleep right now.	11:05
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pupnik	and you can share pics so much more easily than a regular camera	11:06
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dmj726	Oh, wow this is rich.	11:07
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dmj726	I don't think I would've brought out the digi8 camcorder for this.	11:08
pupnik	catching the moment is the key	11:08
dmj726	yep, I can enjoy my "drink" and video it too.	11:09
tybollt	guess you had to have a n900 for ... that	11:10
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dmj726	I've been trying to make hot chocolate like they make in spain for a couple years now	11:10
dmj726	I think I've finally succeeded.	11:10
tybollt	whats the secret?	11:10
dmj726	Fill a glass with 50% bittersweet chocolate, 25% milk, and 25% sugar.	11:11
dmj726	Boil that.	11:11
tybollt	holy crap	11:11
dmj726	Stir it vigorously for a minute	11:12
neal	that's thick	11:12
tybollt	that's insta-fatener right there >:)	11:12
dmj726	heat it to a boil again	11:12
dmj726	stir it vigorously for another minute until it's smooth	11:12
dmj726	It is.	11:12
dmj726	Make a small cup, not a big one.	11:12
neal	sounds like Angelina's (in Paris)	11:12
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dmj726	This is fairly similar to what I had at Chocolateria San Gines in Madrid	11:13
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tybollt	if I served this to the missus she'd be on a sugar-high for the rest of the evening ;)	11:13
dmj726	Which incidentally is the only Spanish restaurant I know of that offers free water.	11:13
dmj726	since the chocolate makes you thirsty.	11:13
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prak	anyone know of an easy way to edit my sudoers file?	11:26
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prak	i'm trying to get a bash script working on my n810, but having a lot of trouble	11:26
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prak	anyone here?	11:29
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timeless_mbp	prak: um	11:31
timeless_mbp	/etc/sudoers.d/yourfile_here	11:31
timeless_mbp	+ update-sudoers	11:31
timeless_mbp	(roughly)	11:31
timeless_mbp	/usr/sbin/update-sudoers	11:32
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prak	timeless_mbp: huh? i don't understand what you just said	11:34
tybollt	otherwise using the "visudo" command is recomended	11:34
timeless_mbp	prak: why do you want to update sudeors	11:34
timeless_mbp	s/eo/oe/	11:34
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: prak: why do you want to update sudoers	11:34
timeless_mbp	the reason i update it is because i have a package that distributes a file that needs sudo	11:34
florian	good morning	11:34
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timeless_mbp	the proper way to do it is to distribute a file w/ the bits i want in the directory i mentioned	11:34
timeless_mbp	and call update-sudoers	11:34
timeless_mbp	which does the right thing (tm)	11:35
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prak	i want to be able to run a certain script that i wrote	11:37
prak	which i am having some problems running	11:37
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prak	http://www.pastebin.ca/1738551 and http://www.pastebin.ca/1738552	11:38
prak	but i'm having problems running on the n810 even though i can run it on my ubuntu	11:38
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grondilu	Hi, I've tried to encode a video using 'mencoder -avc lavc -lavcopts mpeg4 ...' but it doesn't seem to play well on my N900. What are the best mencoder options to encode a vidéo for this device ?	11:56
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cehteh	grondilu: http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/tablet-encode.html	11:57
cehteh	... but caveat, i got a bad video because of wrong framerate	11:57
cehteh	just reencoding with fixing that in the source	11:58
grondilu	thks cehteh, I'll try that.	11:59
pupnik	i noticed media player didn't honor my aspect ratio specifications	12:02
pupnik	i.e. you have 320x240 and want to stretch to 400x240 for e.g.	12:03
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grondilu	Oh I see it's in Perl... That's good.	12:03
Gadgetoid_mbp	No SDL_net.h in scratchbox, what's the deal with that, yee!	12:06
pupnik	sec	12:06
RST38h	cehteh: just use mencoder directly	12:07
cehteh	i dont care ..	12:07
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kkito	hello	12:07
pupnik	fakeroot apt-get install libsdl-net1.2-dev	12:07
* pupnik LOVES indent		12:07
RST38h	in which way?	12:08
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Gadgetoid_mbp	pupnik, that's a good idea ;D	12:08
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timeless_mbp	hello world	12:09
Gadgetoid_mbp	Only it doesn't seem to exist	12:09
timeless_mbp	anyone feel like writing a tiny hildon test app for me?	12:10
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Gadgetoid_mbp	I think I've had a repo fail	12:10
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pupnik	i can download a tiny hildon test app and build it	12:14
pupnik	Gadgetoid_mbp: i don't really know how to see repo for the installed lib	12:14
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Gadgetoid_mbp	pupnik: it's in extras dev, which I forgot to add facepalm	12:14
pupnik	np	12:15
pupnik	wb woglinde	12:15
woglinde	jo pupnik	12:15
Gadgetoid_mbp	Thanks for putting up with my stupidity	12:15
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pupnik	apt-cache show [package] gives enough to google it tho	12:16
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tabMonkey	hi all	12:17
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cehteh	pupnik: apt-cache policy [package]	12:18
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* cehteh stomped on that some days ago too :)		12:19
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edheldil	but you can't see from which repo an installed package came, AFAIK	12:19
cehteh	edheldil: apt-cache policy [package]	12:20
cehteh	.. for you too :P	12:20
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Better make a mental note to try that one	12:21
Gadgetoid_mbp	Just trying to get the damned thing to update the src repo without failing now	12:21
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edheldil	cehteh: that's not true. see my careful wording	12:22
edheldil	it only shows from which repo the package of the same version is installable	12:22
wazd_e63	Morning all	12:22
cehteh	ok then	12:23
RST38h	moorning wazd	12:23
_claesbas	morning	12:23
Stskeeps	morn wazd	12:23
woglinde	moo	12:23
Gadgetoid_mbp	moorning	12:23
edheldil	ceh900: i.e. if you haven't the repo in aources.list, apt-cache policy will not show it	12:23
edheldil	sry, ceh900 -> cehteh	12:24
cehteh	yeah . .and for manually (dpkg -i) installed packages it doesnt show either	12:24
cehteh	mhm why is ceh900 here .. i rebooted the n900 :P	12:24
ccooke	Morning, all	12:24
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ceh901	spam	12:25
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SpeedEvil	10 minute timeout until you pingout	12:25
cehteh	yeah	12:25
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cehteh	:) bye	12:26
Gadgetoid_mbp	hmm dear, repo fail	12:28
Stskeeps	Gadgetoid_mbp: http://www.qaiku.com/channels/show/maemork/view/1def9d2befd8994f9d211dea4c8d37a06ba62346234/	12:29
Gadgetoid_mbp	Ah, that would be why I'm having trouble updating?	12:29
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Will have to install it the old fashioned way	12:31
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Wheee, compiling	12:35
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Gadgetoid_mbp	facepalm -lsmpeg	12:36
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Arkenoi	oops. fremantle lynx does not support https :-/	12:38
adeus	how about links	12:39
Arkenoi	don't see links in any repositories	12:40
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SpeedEvil	wget?	12:43
adeus	apt-cache policy links	12:44
adeus	http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/free Packages	12:44
Arkenoi	ah, sdk	12:45
Arkenoi	not optified i guess	12:45
Arkenoi	not really a problem, though	12:45
* timeless_mbp looks for native speakers		12:45
lcuk	everyone is a native speaker of some language or other	12:45
woglinde	g	12:46
woglinde	ugh	12:46
Gadgetoid_mbp	I speak English natively, brilliant	12:47
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lcuk	i speak northern	12:47
lcuk	as does JamieBennett1 :D	12:47
JamieBennett1	:P	12:48
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* ShadowJK speaks nothing native		12:48
woglinde	lcuk whats northern?	12:49
VDVsx	woglinde, bad English :P	12:50
lcuk	abstract dialect of english	12:50
* lcuk slaps VDVsx		12:50
woglinde	like saxxion in germany	12:51
woglinde	haha	12:51
ShadowJK	it has glottal stops instead of consonants. or vowels. I forget which	12:51
ShadowJK	maybe it wasn't northern	12:51
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timeless_mbp	hey, does anyone here know how to post one of those notifications that appears in the task switcher?	12:54
SpeedEvil	'gps recorder' does it	12:54
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* timeless_mbp reads http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/hildon-home/src/hd-notification-manager.xml		12:56
* timeless_mbp pokes JamieBennett		12:56
timeless_mbp	lcuk: i presume i've already offered my package to you	12:56
* JamieBennett pokes back		12:56
lcuk	yeah its installed	12:56
timeless_mbp	when was the last time it offered an update?	12:56
timeless_mbp	i tried to push an updated version today	12:56
lcuk	didnt check yet	12:57
Gadgetoid_mbp	Hmm. is there a libmpeg already in a repo for fremantle?	12:57
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timeless_mbp	ok	13:08
timeless_mbp	it looks like there's a ActionInvoked thing	13:08
timeless_mbp	anyone know how to use it? :)	13:09
timeless_mbp	so, it looks like i need to create a dbus service	13:11
timeless_mbp	register it	13:11
timeless_mbp	then forge a notification to hildondesktop w/ that service as the return address	13:11
timeless_mbp	and have the service reboot the system when it's called	13:11
ifreq	any good msn-account-plugin available yet?	13:11
timeless_mbp	ifreq: i take it that butterfly is 'bad'?	13:12
ifreq	it has signup problems and heard it eats battery	13:12
ifreq	msn-pecan has signup probs + it imports contacts without asking	13:12
zaheerm	i have been using felipec's pecan for a few days and it is good	13:12
ifreq	haze eats battery too	13:12
zaheerm	all 3 import contacts without asking	13:13
ifreq	okay thats quite annoying :P	13:13
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ifreq	mayb ill give a msn-pecan new try	13:13
zaheerm	well that is how the telepathy ones work	13:13
zaheerm	they integrate with your addressbook	13:14
ifreq	yeah right	13:14
zaheerm	if you don't want that, use pidgin...	13:14
ifreq	too bad i dont have rest of the contacts added.. so just 20+ msn email addresses	13:14
ifreq	as i dont contact them via phone/sms etc :P	13:14
ifreq	hermes import was nice	13:14
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* Stskeeps curses libcal		13:16
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ifreq	is it normal that msn-pecan does not have icon under accounts (new)?	13:19
Gadgetoid_mbp	libmpeg anyone?	13:20
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ifreq	zaheerm: how do you like that when you remove msn contact under contacts it removes it from server too.. :)	13:22
zaheerm	ifreq, once you understand and actually read the warning, i'm fine...it'd be nice however to have an undo	13:23
TomaszD	zaheerm, I saw your thumbs up on my package, no issues with tracker? PR1.1 or 1.0?	13:23
zaheerm	TomaszD, none that i noticed pr1.0 (not one of the lucky few)	13:23
TomaszD	ok, cool, thanks	13:23
pupnik	i need a nasty bezerk speech synth	13:23
ifreq	zaheerm: yeah, i just dont like only the msn contacnts under contacts.. so ofcourse removed em.. and read the warning later	13:24
woglinde	pupnik lol	13:24
pupnik	:)	13:24
pupnik	(i do)	13:24
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tabMonkey	Anyone know if there's a way to restart mce on the n900 without it rebooting the device?	13:30
timeless_mbp	greedy.	13:30
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tabMonkey	no-one?	13:33
leon-	would anybody know where I could install opengles-sgx-img-common with the version 0.20090218.55.9+0m5	13:33
leon-	I seem to have something newer in my system and apt-get install does not find this particular version in the repos	13:33
woglinde	leon you need the nokia-binary line in your sources.list	13:34
woglinde	but I have to go now	13:35
woglinde	sorry	13:35
leon-	woglinde, ok thanks.. I'll ask around	13:35
woglinde	there is a website	13:35
woglinde	where you can request your personal deb line	13:35
woglinde	but I always forget where this was	13:36
woglinde	okay bye for now	13:36
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tabMonkey	I believe the the website woglinde was referring to is this one http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php	13:37
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leon-	tabMonkey, many thanks!	13:39
tabMonkey	np	13:40
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ifreq	if i reflash firmware do i need to reinstall all software +tune settings?	13:43
pupnik	no, it restores the broken state that caused you to need to reflash	13:43
pupnik	(joke)	13:44
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ifreq	havent reflashed since i got the machine. but would love to have newer fw at some point.	13:44
dmj726	is there a way to update the fw without an effective compelte reinstall?	13:45
pupnik	bookmarks, contacts get restored	13:45
dmj726	apps and documents?	13:45
pupnik	http://lmgtfy.com/?q=n900+flash+restore+settings	13:46
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dmj726	I mean for when the new fw comes out, not if you brick it?	13:46
Stskeeps	andre__: ping	13:48
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flux	it would be nice if installed apps (and potentially their configuration) would stay intact during fw upgrade, but one can dream?	13:49
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dmj726	hmm...my n900 is mounting as read only	13:49
andre__	Stskeeps, pong	13:49
dmj726	flux...so it doesn't?	13:49
flux	dmj726, I have no idea	13:50
flux	dmj726, I'm pessimistic :)	13:50
dmj726	ah	13:50
flux	the best would be a normal apt-gettable upgrade, but apparently that won't be the case :-o	13:50
dmj726	I would hope there would be something more like ubuntu updates rather than clean slate	13:50
flux	infact, why not have both: apt-get, and if something fails horribly, you could always reflash	13:50
dmj726	yeah	13:51
tabMonkey	if it's one of the SSU (seamless software update) they usually keep all of your settings and things	13:51
tabMonkey	though they also sometimes go horribly wrong and require a reflash anyway ;)	13:51
dmj726	hopefully it will be one of those.	13:51
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tabMonkey	I'm fairly sure it would be - the last few for the maemo 4 devices have been	13:51
flux	tabmonkey, well, will it keep my hand-made /etc/network/if-up.d/00_openvpn ?	13:51
dmj726	actually it wouldn't matter either way if you could just get your package list and home folder backed up	13:52
flux	or other files possibly created by software that doesn't add itself to the backup meta data file	13:52
tabMonkey	flux: possibly, depending on whether they've made any changes to that area - if that's a standard file they'll overwrite it with their changes	13:52
flux	tabmonkey, that'd be fine for me :)	13:52
flux	..although debian does have that 3-way configuration file merge also.. ;-)	13:53
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dmj726	have either of you had ubuntu mount your n900 read only?	13:53
flux	I wonder what happens to those folk who have converted ~user/MyDocs to ext3.. apparently camera doesn't work (?) after that.	13:53
tabMonkey	best to take a backup of it - I don't think the maemo application manager has three-way merges yet	13:53
tabMonkey	dmj726: no, not seen that. Might be that the partition needs a fsck?	13:54
dmj726	n900 can do one itself?	13:54
tabMonkey	flux: since they've done that I'm sure they'd be fine organising it themselves. I read today that a loop version of the ext3 ~user/MyDocs can use the camera correctly	13:55
flux	tabmonkey, by loop you mean loopback-file mounted as ext3?	13:56
tabMonkey	dmj726: Not sure - I think so. You'd need to unmount MyDocs first	13:56
dmj726	sound unpleasant	13:56
flux	tabmonkey, I wonder if there are any data safety or performance issues.. but if not, sounds like a decent option :)	13:56
pupnik	find /etc -mtime 21 << get a list of files modified under /etc in past 21 days	13:56
tabMonkey	flux: yeah, titan did something along those lines in this post http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=446502&postcount=101	13:57
dmj726	why would a camera app care abotu which fs it's on?	13:58
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tybollt	I want reiser on Mydocs... c'mon, 's got to be the killer app!	13:58
flux	I wonder if the camera app problem is due to lack of permissions, which are quite relaxed on the currently mounted vfat partition	13:58
KMFDM	it will be real killer	13:58
dmj726	Unless it's got something hard coded there, but that's pure ugly	13:58
dmj726	permissions would be the likely culprit	13:59
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dmj726	"Do you want to empty the trash before you unmount?"	14:05
dmj726	"In order to regain the free space on this volume the trash must be emptied. All trashed items on the volume will be permanently lost."	14:06
ifreq	will there be new firmware next week? heard some rumours	14:06
tabMonkey_	dmj726: emptry trash? Is it windows giving that message?	14:06
dmj726	nope	14:07
dmj726	ubuntu	14:07
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tabMonkey_	dmj726: hmm. Ubuntu may have created a .trash folder or something.	14:07
FIQ	that message seemed to came from windows lol	14:07
tabMonkey_	ifreq: it's always a possibility - since a release is being tested by some at the moment	14:08
* FIQ thinks that if he deletes a folder or file, he wants to delete it		14:08
dmj726	hmm n900 thinks the fs is read only too	14:08
tabMonkey_	dmj726: if you're on ubuntu you should be able to plug the n900 in, unmount it and fsck it there, rather than having to do it through the n900	14:09
tybollt	anyone tried qemu/kvm in the n900?	14:10
dmj726	fsck is complaining about it not being ext2	14:10
tabMonkey_	fsck.vfat	14:10
dmj726	ah	14:10
dmj726	:-[	14:10
dmj726	I don't fsck much	14:11
dmj726	um innuendo not intended	14:11
tabMonkey_	hehe	14:11
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dmj726	I think I found another fix though	14:11
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tabMonkey_	what was your fix?	14:13
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tekonivel	n900 refuses to turn on :( :( :(	14:16
tekonivel	even the led shows no nothing	14:16
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hrw	morning	14:17
tabMonkey	morning	14:17
tekonivel	top of the morn all	14:17
dmj726	tabMonkey: reboot twice	14:17
dmj726	didn't work	14:17
mgedmin	tekonivel, plug the charger in, leave it for an hour or two	14:17
dmj726	tekonivel: aww	14:17
tekonivel	mgedmin: its been in the usb overnight. didn't help :(	14:19
mgedmin	ooh :(	14:19
mgedmin	pulling the battery out didn't help either?	14:19
tekonivel	when i connect the charger, and orange led appears. it turns off after a whiöe	14:19
mgedmin	hmm	14:19
dmj726	have you tried resoldering the microusb port?	14:19
tekonivel	mgedmin: noåe	14:19
mgedmin	charging the battery in a different device might be simpler	14:20
tybollt	resoldering anything will get you into neat problems when claiming warranty	14:20
tekonivel	s/noåe/nope/	14:20
infobot	tekonivel meant: mgedmin: nope	14:20
tybollt	first - go for warranty - THEN when all other options are bust - resort to HW mod	14:20
tekonivel	i sure haven't soldered anything	14:20
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tekonivel	also, i didn't do anything special. the device just ran out of juice, and now isn't recovering	14:21
ShadowJK	do you have a voltmeter or multimeter?	14:22
tekonivel	i was wndering, are there any incantations i can make, like pressing a key combination at startup etc	14:22
tybollt	what puzzles me is you actually get the charging led... tells me it can't be _entirely_ bricked.	14:22
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tekonivel	tybollt: normally the charging led pulsates, right?	14:22
ShadowJK	yes	14:22
tekonivel	tybollt: mine doesn't	14:22
tekonivel	:'{	14:23
tybollt	hmm	14:23
tybollt	I recall my charging led not pulsating at one time	14:23
tybollt	Perhaps I was too drunk at the time?	14:23
* tybollt is trying now		14:23
tekonivel	mgedmin: yeah removing battery for 2 minutes didn't help either	14:23
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tekonivel	i feel handicapped without mobile internet. what a horrible situation	14:24
tybollt	there we go	14:25
tybollt	certainly pulsating	14:25
* tybollt must've been too drunk then		14:25
tekonivel	tybollt: yeah that's what i remembbered (pulsating, not drunk)	14:25
tybollt	;)	14:25
tekonivel	i don't remember being drunk ;)	14:26
tybollt	If I were you I'd lookup nearest nokia repair centre and git'r done	14:26
tekonivel	wtf	14:26
tybollt	works now? :D	14:26
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flux	tekonivel, have you recharged it for a long period after disconnecting/connecting battery?	14:26
tekonivel	this is showing a good sign of life now	14:26
flux	(and not reconnecting the charging power)	14:26
tekonivel	i moved from usb to a proper charger... is pulsating now	14:27
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tekonivel	flux: overnight	14:27
tybollt	tekonivel: ooooh	14:27
mgedmin	bug 6004?	14:27
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6004 N900 sometimes ignores USB data cable	14:27
tybollt	tekonivel: please -always a proper charger	14:27
tybollt	tekonivel: there's no guarantee what a computer/whatever will output on a usb port I suppose.	14:27
mgedmin	happened to me again the other day: plug in USB data charger --> N900 doesn't charge, doesn't pop up the "what to do with USB?" menu	14:27
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mgedmin	unplug, plug again -> worked	14:27
tybollt	if drained entirely - always real charger	14:28
tekonivel	this sucks, because i tried this proper charger yesterday, i'm sure	14:28
tybollt	mgedmin: that's a known bug - apparently fixed in RP1.1	14:28
ShadowJK	usb cable to computer requires the battery to have enough power left for n900 to boot and negotiate with computer... plus, the charger is twice as strong as usb	14:28
tekonivel	tybollt: aha, ok that must be it	14:28
* tekonivel sighs of relief		14:28
tekonivel	thanks you all for holding my hand :`}	14:29
tekonivel	still acting up, i'm not reliefed under i see the desktop	14:30
Muhvi	^^	14:30
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Muhvi	that is common problem with other phones as well	14:30
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leon-	hehe, the nokia binaries and falling back to the earlier opengles version bricked the device :)	14:31
leon-	had to get it reflashed, ugh	14:31
Muhvi	if using usb charger from computer etc. it doesn't always charge the phone if battery is totally dried up	14:31
ShadowJK	It shouldn't really let the battery get that dried up in the first place, but otoh the user can do things that pull battery lower :/	14:32
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dmj726	any reason files might not chmod?	14:34
tekonivel	now booting	14:34
dmj726	I'm root	14:34
tekonivel	this surely hasn't been an experience i'veenjoyed	14:34
tekonivel	luckily there's #maemo	14:34
tekonivel	:)	14:34
dmj726	I do chmod 755 myfile and it's still not executable	14:35
X-Fade	dmj726: THat is because the card is mounted noexec.	14:35
dmj726	ah	14:35
dmj726	how do I run programs from it then?	14:35
dmj726	I've done it before	14:36
X-Fade	You don't ;)	14:36
mat-	dmj726: i just have the same problem	14:36
dmj726	I ran sheep that way	14:36
mat-	and discovered that any of the files in Mydocs will become executable	14:36
flux	maybe via /lib/ld-linux.so.3 ?	14:36
tekonivel	now at desktop. thanks all, esp tybollt, ShadowJK, flux, mgedmin	14:36
dmj726	what did you do?	14:36
X-Fade	maybe by calling sh before it?	14:36
dmj726	mat-: how did you execute the files?	14:36
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mat-	dmj726: moved my files to /home/usr/	14:37
mat-	and NOT Mydocs	14:37
RST38h	Ah heeeere you areeee	14:37
flux	bah, that hole has been closed	14:37
RST38h	X-Fade: Can I ask for one more little favor? =0	14:37
X-Fade	RST38h: It it is in the few minutes work range, yes ;)	14:37
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RST38h	X-Fade: Hope so. Could you approve my request to become XChat maintainer?	14:38
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X-Fade	RST38h: Oh, that I can do.	14:38
* RST38h thinks the last build should be promoted to -Testing but does not have the rights		14:38
RST38h	Thanks!	14:38
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RST38h	Same for XChat Locales please	14:38
X-Fade	done	14:38
Jaffa	X-Fade: Should https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7545 be assigned to you or Ferenc? Ferenc seems to be the default assignee...	14:39
povbot`	Bug 7545: Install the SyntaxHighlight source-code extension	14:39
homeasvs	X-Fade, is it possible someone killed the couchdb build yesterday ? The log looks awfully short and gives no real reason for failure besides a signal	14:39
X-Fade	homeasvs: I did.	14:39
homeasvs	X-Fade, ok, so it was hung ?	14:39
X-Fade	homeasvs: erlang was running 2000 minutes on that file.	14:39
X-Fade	homeasvs: I thought that was long enough.	14:39
homeasvs	X-Fade, weird, it didn't hang back when I built erlang, and now it does hang. Any chance it ran on different builders ?	14:40
tybollt	bit OT so you will chastise me for it but... screen protection or no screen protection? experiences?	14:40
X-Fade	Jaffa: yes, ferenc is fine for that. I am in cc for that anyway.	14:40
X-Fade	homeasvs: qemu was spinning 100%.	14:40
pingpong	does anybody know how I can prevent the MAC address of the usb network from changing? I would like to use a udev rule but's the MAC is changing after reboot	14:41
homeasvs	X-Fade, yeah, that's what happens in my armel scratchboxes, and that's what I also expected for the erlang build in extras, but it didn't	14:41
homeasvs	X-Fade, so I'm surprised it does now for couchdb	14:41
pingpong	*udev rule at my host system	14:41
ShadowJK	tybollt: new touchwindow assy is 100 bucks, you can just replace hatt if you accidentally put n900 in same pocket as your keys/pens and whatever	14:41
X-Fade	homeasvs: I remember that for erlang I also needed to kill something.	14:41
X-Fade	homeasvs: And then it continued instead of failed.	14:42
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homeasvs	X-Fade, yeah. In my sbox however any erlc execution hangs	14:42
tybollt	ShadowJK: it works like that? I mean... you can get that part? I don't have to have a good friend at nokia's? ;)	14:43
homeasvs	X-Fade, otoh I just noticed that the erlang packages are bad anyway, none of the crypto/ssl stuff was built	14:43
X-Fade	homeasvs: Can you try it with a newer qemu in your own sbox?	14:43
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X-Fade	homeasvs: http://maemo.gitorious.org/qemu-maemo	14:44
ShadowJK	tybollt: you can get the component for 55. If I understood it correctly, some guy on tmo who had a big scratch was quoted ~100 bucks by a repair shop	14:44
homeasvs	X-Fade, I'll try - can I build a .deb straight from that checkout ?	14:45
RST38h	A'ok, XChat goes into Extras-Testing, thanks X-Fade	14:45
Jaffa	VDVsx: Could it be argued that the Jan sprint meeting is an opportunity for some of our more... quiet... council members to show some activity?	14:46
X-Fade	homeasvs: I have no idea, if there is a debian dir then you should be able to just run dpkg-buildpackage.	14:46
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homeasvs	I'll check and let you know	14:46
dmj726	okay, I'm officially retarded.	14:46
VDVsx	Jaffa, + 1 for that, I'll have a very busy month :(	14:46
dmj726	I just spend 10 minutes trying to figure out why a program won't run	14:46
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RST38h	Moo, VDVsx by the way	14:46
VDVsx	hey RST38h :)	14:47
tybollt	ShadowJK: neat. My experience from nokia repair centre around here (stockholm, .se) is they'd just "sorry - that'd cost more thant the phone is worth, bubye now"	14:47
dmj726	It's a binary compiled for x86	14:47
Jaffa	VDVsx: Especially since at least two of the council members ran on an "increased communication" ticket.	14:47
tybollt	ShadowJK: w/out even inspecting the damage to the phone	14:47
tybollt	but that's very good news	14:47
ShadowJK	tybollt: well the same guy was quoted 224 for replacing the cover and case	14:48
tybollt	heh, there you go :)	14:48
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VDVsx	Jaffa, I'm trying to do my best, but the last times were not very easy, I'm starting to be a little bit demotivated, especially after get massive insults yesterday :(	14:50
VDVsx	better times will come :)	14:50
Jaffa	VDVsx: Now you know why I stopped :-(	14:50
ShadowJK	http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900 all not in stock and unorderable :(	14:50
X-Fade	VDVsx: Always remember that people who complain care, when they stop complaining, they moved on ;)	14:51
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dmj726	http://forums.celtx.com/viewtopic.php?t=8366&sid=b4d20c0f0ee49b14b49b4228e4596c17	14:51
VDVsx	X-Fade, I'm fine with complains, but I like to be respected at least in the same way I respect others	14:52
dmj726	It strikes me that celtx shouldn't be too terribly hard to port	14:52
tybollt	ShadowJK: any word of a car gps-style holder/dock?	14:52
Jaffa	VDVsx: Take Texrat up on his volunteration	14:52
neal	when a gtktreeview is placed in a hildon pannable area, the row heights are large. I appreciate that this is useful for selecting the right item, but I'd like to nevertheless reduce the height by about 30%. How can I do this?	14:53
VDVsx	Jaffa, he told me he's a bit sick, but I'll check it him :)	14:53
dmj726	would anybody want celtx on their phone?	14:53
ShadowJK	tybollt: hm, I was going to try one I saw at Clas Ohlson once..	14:53
X-Fade	VDVsx: true.	14:53
Jaffa	VDVsx: Ah, doh. He gets migraines IIRC	14:53
tybollt	ShadowJK: Dude... Clas Ohlson? :)	14:53
Jaffa	Which reminds me, I need some drugs	14:53
Stskeeps	perhaps it's time to give council increased role as it's well, a bit not-functional atm :P	14:54
tybollt	I don't trust them w/ this fine a phone :)	14:54
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ShadowJK	tybollt: well my N900 already proved it survived an aerial flight through my car ;)	14:54
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X-Fade	ShadowJK: Did you have n900fly running?	14:55
* Jaffa wants to give the current council a scorecard. Maybe it'd be best sent straight to council@maemo.org rather than public shaming; and asking them what they've learned and how we can make sure we get more active candidates.		14:55
KMFDM	my n900 survived an aerial flight today	14:55
KMFDM	it kept running to and didn't crash	14:55
tybollt	ShadowJK: Hmm you HAD to test that "throw your n900"-app - didn't you? ;-)	14:55
ShadowJK	x-fade: no it wasn't out yet	14:55
RST38h	Eh...gerbick transdickifies so quickly nowadays...	14:55
* Stskeeps wouldn't mind seeing community council be people who spearhead efforts and work with people to get things accomplished and get a sense of having a management of the community		14:55
KMFDM	*too	14:55
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: That sounds ideal :-)	14:55
Stskeeps	as we are kinda flailing atm	14:55
KMFDM	i slide on ice and had to decide if i wanted to fall face first on ice covered concrete or drop the phone and get my balance	14:55
KMFDM	granted i have a rubber protector on the phone	14:56
tybollt	I'd say I fancy my n900 broken over my face being turned into ground meat	14:56
X-Fade	The 'problem' with a community council is that they need to do things in their spare time.	14:56
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X-Fade	Goals often get kicked by real life issues.	14:56
VDVsx	Stskeeps, ran for the council, I'll vote on you :p	14:56
KMFDM	tybollt, precisely	14:57
KMFDM	so into the air it went	14:57
Stskeeps	VDVsx: being both a maemo.org employee and council will give me a headache	14:57
KMFDM	the protector flew off, battery panel flew off	14:57
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KMFDM	but battery stayed put so it stayed on	14:57
ShadowJK	I had my N900 on the dashboard because that's where its fm transmitter gives best signal. In an intersection it was more slippery than I anticipated, and I was in a lazy sideways skid, and when the wheels found grip again and straightened out the car, the jerk sent my N900 flying :)	14:57
KMFDM	i gave a live update in another irc channel at the time	14:57
X-Fade	Stskeeps: And a bit of a conflict of interest ;)	14:57
Jaffa	X-Fade: Indeed. But that doesn't seem to be a problem for a lot of other projects. I think the expectation is that those who have the idea have to push it; and it's not clear that all the disparate people involved in maemo.org (some Nokians, some maemo.org, some contractors at Nemein) who can set and push an agenda.	14:57
VDVsx	Stskeeps, I can recommend you some good pills for that :)	14:57
Stskeeps	maybe council should be a matter of daily management instead - if you run for it, you run for daily or weekly meetings where efforts are voted on and resources allocated , if you can't handle that, resign	14:59
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RST38h	Stskeeps: See item about how this is done in spare time	15:00
VDVsx	@ BCN I discussed with dneary & others, if nokians/maemo.org people in the council could be good or bad for the community	15:00
Stskeeps	RST38h: still	15:01
RST38h	Stskeeps: From personal experience I can assure you that this is barely possible =(	15:01
tybollt	no, you all just say that - while in fact you were looking for an excuse to test ... http://my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?name=N900_Fly&faq=47&fldAuto=1043	15:01
tybollt	;-)	15:01
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Stskeeps	RST38h: well, then council is partly useless and we start to have mini commitees or something instead that -can- spend time on issues :P	15:02
Stskeeps	like we have bugsquad, docsquad, etc	15:02
RST38h	Stskeeps: Interesting idea	15:02
RST38h	Stskeeps: i.e. switch to something small, adhoc, centered around a single task	15:02
Stskeeps	right now we're not getting any visions or direction of the community to self-organise either :P	15:02
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RST38h	Well, that is because you have a wrong idea of the community	15:03
RST38h	A lot of people do, in fact, because the more realistic view is such a sad thing to consider :)	15:03
Stskeeps	i'd like to see the community be a working community, but that's my own personal view :P	15:03
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RST38h	Well, the problem is that there is no "community".	15:04
VDVsx	the problem is that we're very different from most of the OpenSource communities using this kind of management (I guess that was inspired in the Gnome community)	15:04
RST38h	There is a bunch of different people, all doing their own things with the phones	15:04
leon-	what's the latest production firmware?	15:05
RST38h	Their paths intersects at maemo.org, tmo, this channel, etc	15:05
VDVsx	we're becoming more and more like the android community	15:05
RST38h	When their paths intersect, however briefly, you get impression of the community	15:05
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RST38h	But some people move on, other people come, some may not have time to participate in communal mingling, etc	15:06
RST38h	So when you talk about community eforts, you should always keep this fluid, unstable, ghost-like model in mind	15:07
Stskeeps	we should really have been organising the incoming people better though - for those who'd like to contribute	15:07
RST38h	Stskeeps: People do not like organization. The more you organize, enforce rules, etc the more people will be turned away	15:07
VDVsx	very true	15:07
RST38h	Good organization is when the organized do not notice anything out of the ordinary ;)	15:07
leon-	word :)	15:08
RST38h	Remember what happened when ITT became TMO?	15:08
RST38h	And all that changed was the domain name and the fucking layout	15:08
Stskeeps	RST38h: still, for those who want to contribute and work together to make something bigger, it should be possible to set up a mini project for doing so	15:09
Stskeeps	and for those mini projects that require the time of paid contributors or adjustments to maemo.org, council should be in over to help allocate resources for accomplishing it	15:11
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Stskeeps	and hence dynamically making direction of efforts	15:11
Stskeeps	that is really what facilitation should be like, helping making things possible :P	15:12
* Stskeeps wonders where the civilization style 'revolution' button is		15:12
ifreq	puuh	15:14
RST38h	Stskeeps: Ah, if n people would like to work jointly, they will, without any external organization	15:14
RST38h	Stskeeps: humans are small pack animals, they organize pretty well in groups <5	15:14
Stskeeps	RST38h: agreed, and there's no need for it to be. but if it requires shared resources (employees, web space, passwords, whatever, decisions), these have to be allocated to them	15:15
RST38h	Stskeeps: Now, if the council takes some real efforts to fix the maemo.org snafu, that would be waaaaaaaaay appreciated	15:15
RST38h	Stskeeps: Because they way it is now, maemo.org services actively PREVENT people from working together	15:16
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Stskeeps	RST38h: it's slowly getting out of the snafu, but yeah	15:17
RST38h	Stskeeps: people also tend to find their own web space, version control systems, etc	15:17
Stskeeps	RST38h: agreed, was just examples	15:17
RST38h	Stskeeps: So, the least the council can do is to make maemo.org resources competitive with other resources out there	15:17
lcuk	is the meeting happening in here then	15:18
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RST38h	i.e. autobuilder working 24/7, instant page reloads, instant status changes	15:18
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RST38h	reasonable UI for browsing packages	15:18
Stskeeps	lcuk: nah, this is just discussion	15:18
RST38h	well organized documentation page (how old is this issue? ;))	15:18
ShadowJK	lol	15:18
RST38h	Well organized news page	15:19
ShadowJK	it's http, it needs a browser, it'll never be instant	15:19
RST38h	(and I have some suggestions on that)	15:19
RST38h	ShadowJK: By instant I mean <10 seconds	15:19
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ShadowJK	right :)	15:19
lcuk	ajax!	15:19
RST38h	ShadowJK: Right now, it is 2-3 minutes to reload the damn page + 1-3 hours for the package status to change	15:19
Stskeeps	http://wiki.maemo.org/Objective:Best_community_for_mobile_Linux_innovation	15:19
lcuk	web2.0 autobuilder	15:19
lcuk	with shiny things	15:19
flux	shadowjk, AJAX server side push \o/	15:19
Stskeeps	lcuk: it's called OBS	15:20
Stskeeps	:P	15:20
RST38h	lcuk: That is exactly the opposite to what I would do :)	15:20
ShadowJK	Sometimes I think rms hasb the right idea when he emails people asking them to download a webpage for him	15:20
lcuk	when obs builds mplayer ill accept it	15:20
lcuk	its a big problem	15:20
RST38h	Stskeeps: For some reason people tend to think that they can solve things through technology	15:20
tybollt	ShadowJK: Please say you were being ironic... :-\|	15:20
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Stskeeps	RST38h: ever seen OBS? grab an account on build.opensuse.org	15:20
RST38h	Stskeeps: Hence we have Midgard, SB, Ajax, etc	15:20
* lcuk waves @ dnaumov		15:21
lcuk	dneary too	15:21
* RST38h is not grabbing any new accounts, sorry		15:21
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Stskeeps	meh, alright	15:21
* Stskeeps grabs screenshot		15:21
dneary	lcuk, No I don't	15:21
ShadowJK	tybollt: well atleast with email you dont sit around waiting for immediate response afterwards ;)	15:21
RST38h	Stskeeps: The current problems should be resolved on social level + by fixing current infrastructure, even at the cost of dropping the badly broken parts	15:21
RST38h	Stskeeps: Throwing more software kludges at them is going to make them worse	15:22
lcuk	the autobuilders got updated didnt they?	15:22
Gadgetoid_mbp	Rocks'n'Diamonds now running on my n900... kinda	15:22
lcuk	and from submit to accept was <3 mins someone was saying	15:22
lcuk	or was that just fluke cos of an empty queue	15:22
RST38h	lcuk: Try promoting a package to -Testing	15:22
RST38h	lcuk: See how long it will take you	15:22
Stskeeps	RST38h: this comes with organisational change too though	15:22
lcuk	RST38h, yeah that step is harsh	15:23
RST38h	lcuk: Try voting for a package. Try voting for a news item. Try finding your package in the Extras-testing package list.	15:23
lcuk	the whole packages interface is when i noticed it went slower	15:23
RST38h	Stskeeps: I do not know and do not care HOW this will come	15:23
RST38h	Stskeeps: I just know that it SHOULD come in order for this bunch of people to thrive	15:23
Stskeeps	RST38h: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/obs1.png , http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/obs2.png	15:24
RST38h	Stskeeps: Well, it is nice littl eimage	15:24
ShadowJK	Maybe voting-doesn't-work-at-all-through-http should be documented somewhere... or on a bugtracker... or maybe the interface shouldn't give you a button to vote over http, which doesn't work...	15:24
RST38h	Stskeeps: I cannot judge how well it actually works though	15:24
RST38h	ShadowJK: You know what happens with the stuff reported on the bugtrakcer	15:25
RST38h	ShadowJK: For example, remember that huge orange rabbit dropping at Maemo Planet?	15:25
ShadowJK	lcuk: what's the problem with using obs to build mplayer?	15:25
RST38h	ShadowJK: I reported it at bugzilla months ago. It is still there.	15:25
ShadowJK	orange rabbit dropping?	15:26
Stskeeps	ShadowJK: that was opensuse build service policy (novell)	15:26
Stskeeps	on our own instance this problem wouldn't exist	15:26
ShadowJK	ah	15:26
lcuk	ShadowJK, policy against building anything fun	15:26
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X-Fade	RST38h: Pick battles that are worth fighting. A style element... damn, you must really have a lot of time..	15:27
RST38h	ShadowJK: At the right side, the scroll list handle	15:27
RST38h	X-Fade: Well, you know it was just one of many items filed	15:28
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RST38h	X-Fade: Only using it as an example of something trivial, that prpbably takes <15 minutes to fix	15:28
X-Fade	RST38h: Filing trivial bugs actually slows progress.	15:28
dmj726	configure: error: Your compiler does not follow the C++ specification for temporary object destruction order.	15:28
dmj726	I'm getting this error, and I'm not sure why?	15:28
RST38h	X-Fade: Well, trivial or not, it is still an orange rabbit dropping :)	15:28
ShadowJK	the right hand navigation menu covering package descriptions is cute too, but such things seem way too common, also outside of maemo.org for me to care much about..	15:29
X-Fade	RST38h: I'll take a .css which works with all our services.	15:29
tybollt	MFE wizards around here? Can you coerce it into _only_ alerting for messages in the inbox?	15:29
RST38h	X-Fade: Mmm?	15:30
RST38h	X-Fade: Why do you need a single .css?	15:30
Stskeeps	X-Fade: btw, is there a list of the cvs/svn/git's of the various maemo.org services?	15:30
Stskeeps	if anyone did want to contribute	15:30
RST38h	And why is that orange thing a part of .css at all?	15:30
lcuk	a map	15:30
X-Fade	Stskeeps: most of it is in maemo2midgard svn on garage	15:30
lcuk	Stskeeps, its something the distmaster would start off isnt it	15:30
Stskeeps	X-Fade: thanks	15:31
Gadgetoid_mbp	How do I hack an app into the maemo5 apps menu, can launch from the terminal but no keyboard input gets redirected to the app itself	15:31
RST38h	X-Fade: Several people actually wanted to help with the web site	15:31
Stskeeps	X-Fade: we should probably put that on wiki in contribution somewhere	15:32
RST38h	X-Fade: Maybe you can let some of them tweak a few things here and there?	15:32
TomaszD	come on guys, "Cellular Modem Control Buttons" needs one more freaking vote to get into Extras, please vote http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/cell-modem-ui/0.3-0/	15:32
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TomaszD	Stskeeps, I haven't seen one vote from you, do you not test the apps you download? :P	15:33
Stskeeps	TomaszD: to be honest my n900 is generally so messed up my bug reports would often be unreproducible	15:33
ShadowJK	although, maemo.org works much better than www.nokia.fi that I tried visiting yesterday. It loaded the page, then it made the page 50% darker, then a big bright rectangle appeared in the middle. The rectangle was eventually filled with helpful tips/adverts how to use Comes With Music. There was no way to get rid of this rectangle, and the links that were not covered by the box, on the actual page, did not work.	15:34
TomaszD	Stskeeps, how about a basic backup, reflash, deploy backup, test apps	15:34
TomaszD	besides you have more than one device	15:34
Stskeeps	err.. no	15:34
Stskeeps	i have one device	15:34
lcuk	ShadowJK, did you click outside the box!	15:34
TomaszD	ah, ok	15:34
ShadowJK	lcuk, yes	15:35
tybollt	TomaszD: scuse a silly user such as me - but how is it different from the "offline mode" given by default?	15:35
Stskeeps	X-Fade: if anyone asks in the future, the preferred way to get patches for website is through bugzilla?	15:35
TomaszD	tybollt, you disable the 3G modem, the phone part, wifi and bluetooth stays on, so it's a tablet mode, not offline mode, for saving power.	15:35
tybollt	check	15:36
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tybollt	are you the maintainer? I think it might be worth elaborating on that in the description actually.	15:36
TomaszD	nah, I'm just browsing through the QA list to get some movement	15:36
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Yes, but if the person is someone who can continue to fix things and the fixes are of a decent quality, I won't mind giving svn accees.	15:36
Stskeeps	X-Fade: alright	15:36
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TomaszD	tybollt, but the description is quite clear actualy	15:37
Stskeeps	X-Fade: is packages interface in a SCM anywhere yet? (couldn't find it)	15:37
Stskeeps	(sorry for all the questions, just collecting info)	15:37
tybollt	TomaszD: wait yes	15:37
tybollt	TomaszD: doh, sorry	15:37
tybollt	TomaszD: mea culpa	15:37
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Styling in maemo2midgard, package interface is upstream in midgard's svn.	15:37
TomaszD	well, test it, vote for it, let's get some movement in extras	15:37
* Jaffa goes to vote for it having tested it		15:38
tybollt	I think "sign up/register" is the first part (for me :)	15:38
TomaszD	you do that then	15:38
FIQ	hm	15:38
X-Fade	Stskeeps: http://trac.midgard-project.org/browser/branches/ragnaroek/midcom/org.maemo.packages	15:38
FIQ	the table mode..	15:38
TomaszD	also, call forwarding applet needs two more votes guys http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/callforwarding/0.3.1/	15:39
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FIQ	i've heard it was available on firmware prereleases, but not the official and some app turned it back?	15:39
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TomaszD	FIQ, yes, so vote for that app http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/cell-modem-ui/0.3-0/ :)	15:39
Jaffa	FIQ: Correct.	15:39
Stskeeps	X-Fade: thanks!	15:40
Stskeeps	X-Fade: making a wiki page	15:40
FIQ	i haven't an account or device yet, but i will get it soon. :p	15:41
FIQ	just waiting for a new stock in some web sellers coming 13th jan	15:41
FIQ	and then, i can finally play with the N900. :d	15:42
FIQ	s/d/D/	15:42
infobot	FIQ meant: anD then, i can finally play with the N900. :d	15:42
FIQ	???	15:42
FIQ	w/e	15:42
RST38h	BTW, could someone vote for Javispedro's build of Vulture's Eye?	15:42
hrw	gosh... I hate maemo filemanager	15:42
tybollt	?	15:43
hrw	no way to enter /home/user/modules/ dir	15:43
tybollt	it has xterm, what more can you ask?	15:43
hrw	tybollt: ;D	15:43
RST38h	hrw: As soon as you stop calling it filemanager it becomes ok :)	15:43
hrw	RST38h: sure, but it is named filemanager	15:43
FIQ	hm	15:43
RST38h	hrw: By mistake, I am sure :)	15:44
FIQ	i've heard of KDE for maemo, is it any progress at all on that?	15:44
hrw	FIQ: for maemo or for nxxx?	15:45
FIQ	maemo5/N900	15:45
X-Fade	FIQ: Qt4.5 is on the device by default	15:45
Stskeeps	X-Fade: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community/Contribute	15:45
X-Fade	FIQ: Qt 4.6 is in extras-devel	15:45
FIQ	k	15:45
hrw	my god... running kde under maemo5 would be disaster	15:45
X-Fade	KDE however, nah ;)	15:46
Stskeeps	X-Fade: could be good in order to delegate work to volunters	15:46
hrw	running it instead of maemo5 UI would be better	15:46
RST38h	Please, vote for XChat here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xchat/2.8.6-maemo14/	15:46
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Sure, everything is out in the open anyway.	15:46
Stskeeps	X-Fade: yeah, it's just difficult to chase down	15:46
RST38h	Tomaszd: I will change the control file lines next time I reboot into Linux.	15:46
TomaszD	RST38h, you're the xchat maintainer? thanks :)	15:48
tybollt	FIQ: really? kde4 running on the n900? :D	15:48
TomaszD	I'm looking through the extras-testing vote count and there are many apps which are on the verge of being accepted into Extras, it's just that very few people test and vote	15:49
ifreq	give app which to use for voting	15:50
FIQ	i don't know if it's true, but somewhere i heard that.. for about 1-2months ago, and in a _very_ early stage, don't heard anything about it after that	15:50
RST38h	TomaszD: Proposal to lower threshold from 10 to 5 votes has been agreed upon but never implemented.	15:50
TomaszD	alright, first of all this needs only a couple of votes http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/callforwarding/0.3.1/	15:50
FIQ	@tybollt	15:50
* RST38h has not installed this one		15:50
leon-	what have I done now, reflashed the device and phone functionalities and 3g are crippled :)	15:51
TomaszD	RST38h, who is at fault?	15:51
hrw	shit... looks like my DDP n900 has something fucked with keyboard backlight	15:51
X-Fade	hrw: did you enable r-d mode?	15:52
leon-	is the US 42.11 pr firmware simlocked or something like that?	15:52
TomaszD	the maemo-geolocation plugin needs three votes. It works fine. http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/maemo-geolocation/1.1.3-1/	15:52
RST38h	TomaszD: Ask either X-Fade or jeremiah	15:52
RST38h	TomaszD: May also want to ask VDVsx	15:52
lcuk	hrw, ummm sure you are not in ummmm dev mode in the flasher (forget actual name)	15:53
RST38h	yea, voting for geolocation	15:53
hrw	X-Fade: good question	15:53
TomaszD	X-Fade, jeremiah, VDVsx, why is this bottleneck of 10 votes required, when 5 votes were agreed upon?	15:53
lcuk	thats it X-Fade lol	15:53
X-Fade	TomaszD: Server work comes first. Then we'll work on improvements first.	15:54
X-Fade	- 2nd first ;)	15:54
TomaszD	the voting spree should continue though, there is a simple game from Maemo 4, crazy parking, which works, is a bit quirky with notifications, but works fine, just like on the n810, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/crazyparking/0.2.7-3/	15:54
TomaszD	^ 2 votes required	15:54
RST38h	"Game not started" bug?	15:55
TomaszD	yeah	15:55
ShadowJK	i thought that was in the ... game framework thingy..	15:55
RST38h	This is not Crazy Parking's fault	15:55
TomaszD	ok then, vote :)	15:55
RST38h	ShadowJK: Exactly	15:55
FIQ	game	15:55
FIQ	now i lost again..	15:56
RST38h	TomaszD: note that it takes minutes to vote for a single app	15:56
RST38h	TomaszD: So even voting for them is kinda painful and time consuming	15:56
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ShadowJK	(and it doesn't work on http)	15:56
TomaszD	RST38h, no it doesn't, just click to vote and move on, leave the page loading, you can open multiple tabs...	15:56
RST38h	ShadowJK: Works via http for me	15:56
ShadowJK	didn't work for me :/	15:56
RST38h	TomaszD: You know what? You can duplicate VDVsx's idea	15:57
RST38h	TomaszD: He has done a really simple thing	15:57
TomaszD	which is?	15:57
RST38h	TomaszD: He collected all direct voting page URLs for packages he considered fit and posted them as one big list to tmo	15:57
RST38h	TomaszD: Worked like a charm	15:57
ShadowJK	LOL	15:58
TomaszD	people are that lazy?	15:58
RST38h	Because navigating the current package interface is like thawing permafrost	15:58
TomaszD	I mean I shouldn't be surprised, the interface is slow, testing takes time	15:58
ShadowJK	I only do it for specific apps I used on N8x0 that I'm interested in ;)	15:58
RST38h	TomaszD: Partially that but mainly because the current web interface pretty much DOES NOT WANT you to use it	15:58
VDVsx	TomaszD, I'm also proposing a team of testers in this month sprint, you seem a good candidate :p	15:58
Muhvi	Hi, do you have any ideas if the default mediaplayer in N900 has any easier ways to make playlists	15:58
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RST38h	TomaszD: A lot of people are already using these apps just not voting	15:59
ShadowJK	btw, from maemo.org, how do you navigate to packages?	15:59
RST38h	Ahahha	15:59
RST38h	there is no link :)))	15:59
TomaszD	this is a sad situation	15:59
RST38h	ShadowJK: maemo.org/packages is not accessible from maemo.org via links	15:59
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* RST38h promptly facepalms		15:59
TomaszD	I think I discovered the voting process by chance	15:59
FIQ	downloads i think?	15:59
FIQ	seems logical	15:59
ShadowJK	TomaszD, me too	15:59
RST38h	FIQ: only Downloads is for Extras	16:00
ShadowJK	But I was wondering how many steps away from maemo.org it is. Whether you can find a path through clicking wiki first or whatever	16:00
RST38h	BUT, this made me think of something	16:00
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RST38h	ShadowJK, TomaszD, VDVsx: Got a crazy idea.	16:00
TomaszD	RST38h, probably something revolutionary, like a link to the voting pages from maemo.org?	16:01
VDVsx	I also proposing "testing app of the day"	16:01
VDVsx	maemo.org front page	16:01
RST38h	TomaszD: Not revolutionary at all	16:01
VDVsx	with the required warning of course	16:01
TomaszD	RST38h, I was being sarcastic...	16:01
TomaszD	:)	16:01
TomaszD	Anyway, I'm up for the testing team or whatever the name	16:01
TomaszD	just contact me when anything happens	16:01
RST38h	ShadowJK, TomaszD, VDVsx: We can take PackRat, install it to a server outside of Maemo.org and modify it a little bit to crawl and display extras-testing, extras, and extras-devel packages	16:02
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RST38h	Furthermore, I can add to each Extras-testing a direct link to vote for it	16:02
RST38h	(insert "package" before "a direct link")	16:02
TomaszD	RST38h, have you checked the latest AppWatch application? the UI is a bit weird (almost invisible scroll bars) but it's really really nice for sorting and displaying repos	16:02
TomaszD	it would be cool if people could vote directly from that app	16:03
VDVsx	RST38h, I'm not familiar with packrat have to check it	16:03
RST38h	TomaszD: Yes, it is pretty nice but strikes me as a bit of overkill	16:03
RST38h	VDvsx: http://ageofikon.info/packrat/	16:03
TomaszD	overkill... maybe not, it's just a power user's tool, not a user's tool	16:03
RST38h	TomaszD: A web interface should probably suffice and can be used to show more information	16:03
RST38h	TomaszD: Also, you can change and evolve web interface waaaay faster than an app	16:04
TomaszD	before that happens, please vote for the new bluetooth-dun package which doesn't require to reboot the phone to enable the service any more http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/bluetooth-dun/1.0-5/	16:04
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TomaszD	I think no matter what we try, there needs to be a more authoritarian approach to this process, like a few dedicated people with more power in their hands, I don't know what power exacty, but maybe blocking an app from getting into Extras, because people stupidly voted for a broken version, etc	16:06
*** tabMonkey_away is now known as tabMonkey		16:07
RST38h	TomaszD: Making things more authoritarian rarely helps.	16:07
RST38h	But I guess you already know that :)	16:07
TomaszD	yeah, I'm just thinking about it, I guess a better, faster web service would do the trick	16:08
RST38h	exactly. with a somewhat lower threshold.	16:08
TomaszD	there's also a conflict of interest, we don't want people to break their devices, but we do want them to test	16:08
tabMonkey	I like the idea of having an application to do the voting / commenting with. Atilla's appwatch gets the data anyway, but he said earlier that he's hesitant to implement that until the servers get fixed	16:08
TomaszD	expose the link to extras-testing making it easier to install the repo, or not.	16:08
RST38h	TomaszD: Well, unless you give people something in exchange (money, candy, sexual satisfaction), it won't work	16:09
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RST38h	TomaszD: Even a satisfying thump! sound when voting will suffice	16:10
TomaszD	many people are adventerous enough without having to give them anything in exchange	16:10
RST38h	TomaszD: Oh no	16:10
RST38h	TomaszD: They will install anything just to see how it works, this is their rewards	16:10
RST38h	TomaszD: But by voting you are not getting any reward	16:10
TomaszD	that's true.	16:11
RST38h	You already installed it, it works, why vote?	16:11
TomaszD	I guess you don't even get karma, do you?	16:11
RST38h	no idea... you probably do get some karma	16:11
TomaszD	what I've noticed is that reporting bugs gives massive amounts of karma, maybe voting should give people more karma...	16:12
TomaszD	I don't know	16:12
pupnik_	one thing i can do is sound editing	16:12
TomaszD	I'm running out of ideas.	16:12
*** destinal-sleep is now known as destinal		16:12
pupnik_	why care about karma?	16:13
pupnik_	have fun, do stuff	16:13
TomaszD	some people do, so why not tap that source	16:13
tybollt	pupnik_: because popular TV series teach us that if you don't... you get run over by a car the minute after you score the million dollar lottery ticket.	16:13
TomaszD	*tap into that source	16:14
TomaszD	it came out all wrong ;)	16:14
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pupnik_	heh	16:14
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TomaszD	alright, one last app for today, 2 more votes, GPXView, personally I don't use it, but it does work fine, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/gpxview/0.9.1/	16:15
RST38h	tybollt: popular videogames teach us that you get 5000 karma for hitting 5 low-karma humans in a row though	16:15
timeless_mbp	andre__: ping	16:15
pupnik_	i am de-suckifying a game atm	16:15
andre__	timeless_mbp, pong	16:15
pupnik_	very fun	16:16
tybollt	RST38h: >:)	16:16
timeless_mbp	andre__: so about that browser select bug	16:16
KamuiWrk	anyone using vpnc	16:16
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timeless_mbp	did you confirm it w/ 41, 42 or 51?	16:16
KamuiWrk	is it capable of pptp or only ipsec	16:16
timeless_mbp	because w/ things after 42 i'm not experiencing what the reporter described	16:16
wiretapped	is there some way to see the raw message or at least the full headers in modest?	16:18
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timeless_mbp	(7669)	16:19
andre__	timeless_mbp, i can confirm in 53-1	16:19
tabMonkey	wiretapped: ~/.modest/cache/mail/imap/name of account/folders/INBOX	16:19
tabMonkey	you should be able to view them there	16:19
tabMonkey	if nowhere else	16:20
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timeless_mbp	andre__: hrm	16:21
timeless_mbp	when i tap in 51 it doesn't jump me	16:21
timeless_mbp	and it doesn't jump in my colleague's things either	16:21
wiretapped	tabMonkey: awesome, thanks! was hoping for a better way, but that works	16:22
tabMonkey	np	16:22
andre__	timeless_mbp, did you scroll down to "Browser"? did you tap it?	16:22
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timeless_mbp	yes. yes.	16:24
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timeless_mbp	ah	16:25
timeless_mbp	type bro	16:25
timeless_mbp	then scroll to Browser, tap it, tap done	16:25
timeless_mbp	so i can accidentally work around it	16:25
timeless_mbp	because the "logical path" gets me to where i kinda want to go	16:25
timeless_mbp	the "fast logical path" fails as described	16:26
leon-	is it std procedure that the sim is not working on the first boot, if you flash the mmc stuff?	16:26
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andre__	timeless_mbp, well, don't type. scroll ;-)	16:29
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timeless_mbp	andre__: "workaround available"	16:30
RST38h	Oh. N900 hung.	16:30
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RST38h	Hehe, MediaBox has no exit button :	16:44
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RST38h	Uninstall =(	16:46
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slonopotamus	exit buttons are for dweebs	16:46
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RST38h	slonopotamus: thus uninstalling...	16:46
RST38h	on the positive side, the mediabox UI is somewhat more clear now	16:47
leon-	has anybody else experienced the sort of an issue that the after flashing the device will just not get any network and does not even ask for pin code?	16:47
danielwilms	leon- which version did you have before and to which version did you flash??	16:48
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leon-	well, I had the most current firmware from R&D flashed on the device, but as that didn't work with the nokia-binaries I reflashed back to 42-11	16:50
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leon-	if I now reflash the thing back to the current R&D it works ok, but 42-11 is a no go	16:50
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tekojo	leon- you can't downgrade after going beyond a certain week	16:56
tekojo	unless you are inside Nokia and get professional help :-)	16:57
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leon-	tekojo, ok..	16:58
Wolfie	people get professional help in nokia? whoa	16:58
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leon-	well, I'll just cope with the latest and the greatest then	16:58
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tekojo	Wolfie we do have the people who really know and then us normal people	16:59
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Wolfie	tekojo: i think you missed my quip, but that's ok.	17:00
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jiajia	how is going with chinese input does anyone know if it is now availible	17:01
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tekojo	no, I decided to ignore it :-)	17:01
Wolfie	well done, then	17:02
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Stskeeps	jiajia: there's maemo-scim project i think	17:02
Wolfie	so, have i understood correctly, that any firmware updates for n900 must be flashed, instead of doing a normal linuxy kernel update?	17:03
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Caesium	OTA updates should come through app manager as I understand it	17:04
Wolfie	i guess what i'm asking is, must the firmware be updated with a computer, or can it be done over the air with only the phone itself?	17:04
Wolfie	right	17:04
Caesium	whether 1.1 will be OTA is another question :)	17:04
Wolfie	gotcha. thanks.	17:05
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lardman	hi chaps	17:08
lardman	& chapesses	17:08
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SpeedEvil	I'm not sure I like the unable to downgrade firmware thing. I hope that's a bug to be fixed.	17:09
RST38h	chaps, chapesses, and chaperones	17:10
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lardman	SpeedEvil: I wonder if it's because the new image contains the starts of the DRM stuff?	17:11
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FIQ	How long does a battery last for you on heavely (i pwnd at spelling) use?	17:13
lcuk	lardman, more likely because backwards and forwards compatability is harder to deal and much less of an issue	17:13
lardman	lcuk: who knows	17:14
lcuk	at least from old style experience	17:14
fragment	FIQ: I guess you mean N900?	17:14
Caesium	FIQ: constant backlight and wifi on? less than a day	17:14
FIQ	say that I have microB, Xchat and some msn application running, how long would it last?	17:15
FIQ	(that's the common apps i use on my current)	17:15
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fragment	FIQ: 3G connection on all the time?	17:15
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matthew-	FIQ: a few hours	17:18
matthew-	(4-5)	17:18
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frals	hmm, you know you go too long between implementing and testing when the cat falls asleep on your n900	17:19
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vesa	3g is a real batteryhogger atleast here. even wifi uses less. with no active connections you can get 2-3 days easily (light web-browsing/rss/whatnot)	17:23
vesa	active = always on i mean	17:23
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RST38h	Arkenoi: so, are we finally getting 3g or not, btw?	17:23
* mgedmin is a real battery-hogger, drains his n900 twice a day		17:23
RST38h	ah, the vampire	17:23
RST38h	mgedmin: btw, vote: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xchat/2.8.6-maemo14/	17:24
mgedmin	was the "crashes on settings" bug fixed?	17:24
RST38h	yes	17:24
RST38h	and the power drain too (I hope)	17:24
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RST38h	to test the latter, either delete ~/.xchat2 or change lagometer value to 0	17:25
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frals	only diff between 13 and 14 conf is the lagometer? :)	17:29
SpeedEvil	xchat seems to use about 14 min/day or so of CPU in a busyish channel	17:31
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Stskeeps	bergie: random question, will brainstorm be having a search?	17:32
Arkenoi	rst38h: mts, yes. already seen it. megafon - not yet	17:33
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RST38h	Arkenoi: Where? WHERE?	17:33
bergie	Stskeeps: yes	17:33
Stskeeps	bergie: good, was going nuts about not being able to find it :P	17:34
Arkenoi	rst38h: yesterday seen it at netname on Sukharevskaya	17:34
bergie	Stskeeps: but before that, googling with inurl: is a good start :-)	17:34
Arkenoi	MTS also claims it has continuous converage for metro circular line	17:34
Arkenoi	tunnels as well	17:34
Stskeeps	bergie: will be moving the open sourcing queue to brainstorm so having tags or something to keep them together with string would be nice :P	17:35
ceda_	Nokia n97 had a feature that tested the WLAN connection for a capture page (You need to enter a code to access the network: [ ])	17:35
ceda_	I've not seen anything like that on the N900/Maemo 5	17:35
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ceda	I tried to find a bugzilla for it but failed to find one	17:36
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ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, don't forget about wakeups	17:36
bergie	Stskeeps: can you post a ticket about that? Should be easy	17:36
bergie	Stskeeps: openness stuff could be a category too	17:37
RST38h	Arkenoi: Have not seen it at the ring line	17:37
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: of course	17:39
ceda	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5723 is a severe version of this :P	17:39
povbot`	Bug 5723: N900 multiple crashes that led to device failure with wireless network that redirects to a login page	17:40
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: however the first is easily measured, the cost of the second needs to be measured with external equipment, or with a rundown test that's complex to get right	17:40
RST38h	cead: Ah I know this one	17:40
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RST38h	ceda: It renders IM plugins unusable until you restart them	17:41
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Stskeeps	bergie: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7676	17:44
povbot`	Bug 7676: Add 'Open sourcing' category to brainstorm	17:44
bergie	thx	17:45
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* TomaszD is thinking of trying to port wesnoth		17:46
TomaszD	shouldn't be too hard (famous last words)	17:46
* SpeedEvil is thinking of trying to - instead of doing something sensible - porting nethack for 34 keys.		17:47
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* lardman is cursing material noise		17:48
KamuiWrk	nethack is the best game of all time	17:48
KamuiWrk	next to maybe angband ;)	17:48
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X-Fade	TomaszD: Wasn't wesnoth already porte?	17:48
KamuiWrk	wesnoth, I think is still only running on the older tablets	17:48
TomaszD	X-Fade, I'm looking through the garage project	17:49
X-Fade	Hmm I really have packetloss on my keyboard ;)	17:49
fiferboy	TomaszD: Someone is working on Wesnoth now	17:49
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fiferboy	TomaszD: I did a bit of work on a Diablo port, and it really isn't too difficult (especially with Glenn's patches in garage)	17:49
ceda	RST38h: it also hans modest until some timeout. It also tells me "Exchange server not responding" - basically I get loads of messages instead of a browser :/	17:49
TomaszD	what's there to work on? The worst screw-up you can do is actually release all the debs to the user category instead of having one package and hiding everything else	17:49
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: crumbs are not packets.	17:50
TomaszD	like the retarded gcompris sound modules in the user category	17:50
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: Don't know the status. Just saw some activity..	17:50
ceda	RST38h: have you seen any bug reports on this? I'm about to file a new one having searched for some time now	17:50
fiferboy	TomaszD: It needs a bit of maemo-izing on the debian packages, the rules file needs some changes, and there are some SDL tweaks that can be beneficial	17:50
an0therb0x	hello, where can i get a list of available repositories for the N900 ?	17:50
timeless_mbp	X-Fade: ping	17:50
timeless_mbp	i'm looking at the export contact dialog and seeking help	17:51
TomaszD	fiferboy, I'll make sure to steal what I can	17:51
TomaszD	:)	17:51
ceda	an0therb0x: repository.maemo.org has a list somewhere	17:51
X-Fade	timeless_mbp: Don't look at me? :)	17:51
fcrozat	hmm, my n900 rebooted while idle	17:51
fcrozat	(I just noticed the nokia logo )	17:51
timeless_mbp	X-Fade: i just want someone who speaks English to lend a sympathetic ear	17:51
ceda	an0therb0x: http://repository.maemo.org/ is what I was thinking of	17:52
fiferboy	TomaszD: The guy working on it is the other person listed on the garage page (besides Glenn and I)	17:52
an0therb0x	ceda: thanks	17:52
fcrozat	32wd_to	17:52
TomaszD	fiferboy, I only see diablo-specific patches	17:52
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TomaszD	some scratchboxisms and a linking problem patch	17:53
fiferboy	TomaszD: Yeah, he hasn't put anything in the repo yet - but you could email him and find out if he has made any progress	17:53
TomaszD	fiferboy, non-public efforts don't count, I guess I'll e-mail him if I fail ;)	17:53
TomaszD	fiferboy, and you can do one thing for me, i18n-ize your widgets already! :P	17:54
fiferboy	TomaszD: True. Wesnoth could definitely do with an optification	17:54
fiferboy	TomaszD: Sure, after I get more than 5 hours sleep in a stretch I will :P	17:54
TomaszD	fiferboy, not only optification, but a clever way to package it, so it doesn't flood the app manager	17:55
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TomaszD	I even saw some gstreamer plugins in the user category, I'm not sure if people know what they're doing..	17:55
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fiferboy	TomaszD: There should be at least the main package, data package (maybe data and sound together?), and a giant campaign package?	17:56
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fiferboy	TomaszD: I assume you don't like having thirty different campaign packages all separate	17:56
TomaszD	fiferboy, I was thinking about normal users who don't care about packages, and release wesnoth-all as the public one	17:56
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TomaszD	hide the rest	17:56
timeless_mbp	andre__: ping	17:56
timeless_mbp	https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Maemo%20Official%20Applications	17:56
timeless_mbp	The Email application "Modest" (used since Maemo 4) (Note, please file Exchange bugs under Synchronization)	17:57
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timeless_mbp	where is 'synchronization'?	17:57
fiferboy	TomaszD: Probably not a bad option for the N900, with lots of space in opt	17:57
timeless_mbp	oh, it's in platform	17:57
TomaszD	yep, as long I can make optification work, which I think is doable, wesnoth-all should be the only one visible	17:57
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fiferboy	TomaszD: Should be easy - just have wesnoth-all in user and the others not in user	17:58
TomaszD	fiferboy, there are no troubles with right-clicking btw? (as in, useless without right click)	17:58
TomaszD	fiferboy, indeed	17:58
fiferboy	TomaszD: I think it can be played without right-click, there are some keyboard shortcuts and menus that should do everything	17:59
TomaszD	ok then	17:59
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TomaszD	dinner first though...	17:59
fiferboy	TomaszD: If you start with the latest debian stable packages there might be some library version issues	17:59
* fiferboy is thinking of libboost particularly		17:59
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TomaszD	fiferboy, I'll try the next best thing and downgrade the versions and see what happens	18:00
fiferboy	TomaszD: Sounds good. Give me a shout if you want some help	18:00
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TomaszD	fiferboy, thanks	18:01
bib	USSD il possible with N900 ?	18:01
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* RST38h promptly curses libboost and everyone who worked on it		18:01
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ceda	RST38h: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7678	18:02
povbot`	Bug 7678: connection to wlan with login page should launch browser	18:02
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RST38h	ceda: I am afraid the bug reporter is asking too much	18:03
RST38h	but yea, this is how it should behave	18:03
TomaszD	too much? if it works in symbian, does it mean that maemo is an inferior platform?	18:04
RST38h	Dunno, I just feel it will never be implemented	18:04
TomaszD	I hope Nokia devs don't share your feelings	18:04
TomaszD	:)	18:04
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ceda	RST38h: Well, the reporter is me and going in/out of the office at least twice a day makes this phone pretty annoying (since it's missing this feature)	18:09
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ceda	I'd be happy with a workaround (a python-script listening to some dbus event/signal)	18:10
vpv	the maemo repos seem to be really slow...	18:10
SpeedEvil	Meh.	18:10
Stskeeps	vpv: what's your location and what kind of response are you getting?	18:11
SpeedEvil	Y'all know that I've been wondering about USB host for a while?	18:11
SpeedEvil	Seems very likely it's a solder job to fix it. And not an easy one either.	18:11
SpeedEvil	:/	18:11
RST38h	ceda: I simply leave th ephone at the officc	18:11
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vpv	Stskeeps: I'm using them from Finland via my wlan, I added fremantle tools and installed htop, "apt-get update" took quite a while but actually installing the package seemed to be a bit faster.	18:12
vpv	and seems like it wasn't cpu bound, I have the system load applet running	18:12
luke-jr	Stskeeps: power abuser	18:12
Arkenoi	most "login pages" actually are fallback from some authentication standard	18:13
ceda	RST38h: you don't use a phone out of the office? :)	18:13
Arkenoi	cannot remember its name but the idea is that if you have proper auth client installed you never see a "login page"	18:13
Arkenoi	smartconnect on s60 did support it	18:14
ceda	Arkenoi: well, this WLAN has a CAPTCHA box	18:14
RST38h	ceda: nope, why	18:14
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RST38h	Arkenoi: Not when you are using evil stuff like cell-provider wifi services or Intel guest wifi	18:14
ceda	RST38h: I use my phone to talk to friends and family, and read RSS feeds on my way home from and to work, ...	18:14
RST38h	ceda: I use it on the way from/to home of course	18:15
RST38h	just not during lunch breaks	18:15
ceda	ah :)	18:15
pupnik_	argh. segfaults segfaults	18:16
Arkenoi	rst38h: at least golden wifi does support it	18:16
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RST38h	golden - maybe	18:18
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RST38h	Arkenoi: stopped at that japanese place yesterday, it had free wifi	18:18
RST38h	Arkenoi: Very convenient =)	18:19
Arkenoi	btw what is the point of having login page if wifi is free anyways?	18:19
mgedmin	customer annoyance	18:20
luke-jr	faster speeds?	18:20
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RST38h	Arkenoi: ads, I guess	18:21
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ceda	I like "356 Kernel lacks IPv6 support" :D	18:22
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philo	anyone bying an n900 from dell	18:23
philo	they have a pretty sweet deal	18:23
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dmj726	morning	18:25
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dmj726	Unlocked phones connected to Ubuntu boxen are great	18:26
TomaszD	fiferboy, you said it, libboost problems, tweaking debian/control...	18:26
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dmj726	n900 + ubuntu netbook = travelling wifi hotspot	18:32
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dmj726	takes about 2 minutes to setup though	18:33
slonopotamus	anyone successfully repartitioned n900? got a link with info?	18:33
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dmj726	slonopotamus: you're refering to making the home folder ext?	18:33
dmj726	weren't there camera problems?	18:34
slonopotamus	dmj726, i feel myself very constrained in 256mb rootfs and want to do smth with it	18:34
SpeedEvil	slonopotamus: you can't	18:35
dmj726	well that's on its own 256 mb drive	18:35
X-Fade	slonopotamus: You can't repartion the root as that physical chip is only 256 ;)	18:35
SpeedEvil	slonopotamus: / is on a 256M hardware	18:35
dmj726	exactly	18:35
zash	whatsitcalled, unisonfs or somethnig?	18:35
slonopotamus	then obvios fix is to move it somewhere else :)	18:35
slonopotamus	ubifs	18:35
X-Fade	slonopotamus: Yeah, that is an option.	18:36
X-Fade	Although you probably need a bootmenu for N900 then.	18:36
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Hexagoon	why have a bigger root?	18:37
TomaszD	fiferboy, around?	18:37
Hexagoon	all apps should be in /opt/ and all docs in /home/user/MyDocs	18:38
dmj726	because root has a nasty tendency to fill up if you install non-optified apps	18:38
Hexagoon	why install non optified apps then? ;)	18:38
X-Fade	Why not just mount /usr somewhere else?	18:38
X-Fade	if you really want to?	18:38
TomaszD	anyone knows what to do with SDL_mixer has no OGG support!	18:38
TomaszD	other than disabling sound?	18:38
slonopotamus	X-Fade, that all just complicates everything.	18:39
RST38h	you can probably recompile libsdlmixer	18:39
RST38h	or whatever it is called	18:39
X-Fade	TomaszD: Or transcode ;)	18:39
SpeedEvil	dmj726: I've found that reflashing a week ago and reinstalling all my apps - most of them have been optified	18:39
Shapeshifter	Has imagemagick been packaged for the n900 yet?	18:39
TomaszD	X-Fade, heh	18:39
dmj726	SpeedEvil: do you install from devel?	18:39
SpeedEvil	yues	18:41
dmj726	okay	18:41
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* Arkenoi used "live optifying" script from tmo and found it to be almost perfect solution		18:41
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ShadowJK	almost?	18:42
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Arkenoi	ShadowJK, a few minor glitches with application icons and i still don't know if everything gonna be ok after i get system update	18:43
RST38h	Theme created by	18:44
RST38h	Have an iGoogle suggestion? Share it at Google Product Ideas	18:44
RST38h	Mobile - Advertising Programs - Business Solutions - Privacy Policy - Help - About Google	18:44
RST38h	©2010 Google	18:44
RST38h	Oh shit. Sorry.	18:44
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AndrewFBlack	Hello	18:46
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ccooke	Huh. Even though I can't currently charge it, my n900 is a better phone than my previous one. Damnit.	18:50
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RST38h	so you couldn't charge your previous one either?	18:50
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ccooke	RST38h: no, but the n900 gets massively better reception :-)	18:52
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luke-jr	ccooke: if the previous one is a Nokia, the batteries might be compatible	18:53
ccooke	unfortunately not	18:53
ccooke	but I'll have a battery charger soon	18:54
ccooke	well, I will if I don't decide to buy my own n900 early	18:54
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* ccooke must find the time to work out who to ask about the n900		18:54
luke-jr	O.o	18:54
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ccooke	my maemo summit loaner n900's usb socket has fallen out - this is a known problem.	18:55
ccooke	I need to find out if Nokia can be persueded to do anything about it, basically	18:55
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ccooke	hell, I'd happily pay to get it fixed (so that I don't have to buy my own n900 this month, rather than in April :-)	18:56
Xisdibik	jedi mind tricks you want YOUR n900 now, go buy it	18:56
Xisdibik	:D	18:56
ccooke	Xisdibik: of course I do. However, I'm trying to avoid it right this moment :-)	18:57
Xisdibik	avoiding will just make you suffer more :)	18:57
RST38h	Resistance is futile.	18:58
RST38h	You will be ass...assi...assi....whacked with the rest of us	18:58
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ccooke	RST38h:	18:59
ccooke	hey, I've aready bought one...	19:00
ccooke	(for my wife, who has been swapping batteries with me the last couple of days :-)	19:00
leon-	hmm, where can one find the hwid code of the n900?	19:00
leon-	http://vaibhavsharma.wordpress.com/files/2009/08/new-nokia-internet-tablet-3.jpg	19:00
lucent	hwid?	19:00
woglinde	hm the next epic fail	19:01
woglinde	telefonmanager dont accept *100#	19:01
leon-	it seems that it is mentioned under the battery on some devices, but mine doesn't have it	19:01
dmj726	Is it just me or are there a lot of family members that buy one after seeing the n900	19:01
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ccooke	leon-: you can get the same information from the Settings applet	19:02
lucent	dmj726: or the 'droid, if they like Verizon service and are US-based	19:02
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leon-	ccooke, ok	19:02
woglinde	dmj726 no	19:02
ccooke	leon-: at the bottom - about, or something	19:02
woglinde	I dont know much who buyed it	19:02
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* ccooke knows of... hmm. Five people who've bought n900s at his instigation		19:03
dmj726	I just heard that ccooke's wife got one. My mom got one.	19:03
dmj726	really?	19:03
TomaszD	will I get crucified by Nokia if I upload a replacement package for libsdl-mixer1.2 with ogg support?	19:03
woglinde	ccooke are they all millionairs?	19:04
ccooke	oh, no. Six. One of those five ended up getting one for their partner	19:04
leon-	ccooke, no hwid there :o	19:04
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ccooke	woglinde: No, they all got subsidised deals.	19:04
woglinde	I never would pay 600 bucks for telephone	19:04
leon-	only software version, wlan mac, bt address and imei	19:04
ccooke	leon-: wlan mac is the hwid they've used before	19:05
lucent	woglinde: I think similarly, I paid $530 for my N900 and there may or may not be an additional $50 prepaid visa card coming my way for the Ovi Store rebate offered to US buyers	19:05
* Arkenoi never owned a telephone that was cheaper than $600 when introduced		19:05
lucent	that's the absolute high end of what I would pay for a computer, much less a phone	19:05
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lucent	it's just squeaking by within reach so I went for it	19:05
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Arkenoi	actually i never paid more than $600 for a computer, though	19:06
dmj726	I went for it considering how much we're saving switching to tmobile with unsubsidized phones	19:06
ccooke	for my wife's, I'm effectively paying about £5 a month more than I did for her last phone, and the n900 was free on that	19:06
lucent	oh, heh, tmobile... they robo dialed me yesterday at 7am	19:07
lucent	I was pissed	19:07
corecode	haha	19:07
corecode	cronjob setting phone ringer to silent until 10am?	19:07
lucent	how to do that?	19:07
lucent	would really like to.... considering I cannot set a ringtone-per-contact	19:08
dmj726	Me getting one droid is more expensive than my family getting 2 n900s	19:08
corecode	dunno, but should work	19:08
corecode	should as in "would be good if it did"	19:08
corecode	hm $550?	19:08
corecode	no, $530? why didn't i see that. oh well, $550 is okay as well	19:09
corecode	at newegg	19:09
lucent	corecode: it was amazon, and only for a few hours	19:09
corecode	ah i see	19:09
lucent	I had my order with newegg, saw $529.99 at amazon and switched my preorder to amazon without hesitation	19:09
corecode	my gf is coming back from the states, so she'll take it with her	19:09
corecode	so timely delivery is important	19:10
woglinde	re	19:10
woglinde	even 500 I would not pay	19:10
woglinde	and I fine with prepaid	19:10
woglinde	so I dont need a contract over 24 months	19:10
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corecode	then you don't get a n900 i guess, or?	19:11
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woglinde	I have one from work	19:11
woglinde	g	19:11
woglinde	but right its not mine	19:11
woglinde	but I can use my prepaid card with it	19:12
lucent	I like to check my web browser based games when I'm on the bus to/from home and the ski resort, then directly to work	19:12
woglinde	lucent g	19:12
woglinde	the bus has wifi?	19:12
lucent	no, but I have decent EDGE roaming along the way	19:12
lucent	if you can call it decent, it works for what I am using it for	19:13
lucent	this saves me like 2 hours of sitting at home checking web browser games, every day	19:13
lucent	my time is definitely worth $500	19:13
woglinde	lucent I didn talked about the worth	19:14
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lucent	oh, I did not understand your meaning	19:15
woglinde	no prob	19:16
lucent	you are saying, there was no need to pay 500, because you got your phone paid for by the business?	19:16
woglinde	no	19:16
mece	how's the N900 for playing Travian? I (Luckily) don't play anymore, but I sure would have loved one when I did.	19:16
ccooke	leon-: ah, now I'm not on the phone, I can see the hwid you mentioned	19:16
woglinde	I have it to develop some stuff	19:16
woglinde	and my colleague maybee need it too	19:16
lucent	mece: I don't know about Travian, the web based games that I am playing now are "Tribalwars" and "Urban Dead", neither requires Flash	19:17
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ccooke	leon-: you can get that with 'cat /proc/component_version'	19:17
leon-	ccooke: :)	19:17
leon-	ok, thanks	19:17
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ccooke	leon-: the hw-build field there appears to be the same	19:17
corecode	how is the voip situation on maemo?	19:18
ccooke	corecode: skype works. SIP works.	19:18
KamuiWrk	wow, almost missed out on the Nokia 50$ visa card rebate	19:18
TomaszD	alright, I got the ball rolling on wesnoth	19:18
corecode	cute	19:18
ccooke	People seem to say that google talk works, but I'm not in the US so I couldn't say.	19:18
woglinde	TomaszD with gles?	19:18
lucent	KamuiWrk: Ovi Store isn't available for N900, I included a letter with my submission asking them to please honor it anyways	19:19
ccooke	but both skype and SIP are working perfectly on mine...	19:19
TomaszD	woglinde, gles? this is an sdl game	19:19
corecode	ccooke: sip is integrated like it is for the e51?	19:19
KamuiWrk	lucent, I noticed, but on the rebate I have it clearly says nokia N900	19:19
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ccooke	corecode: more integrated, I think	19:19
RST38h	TomaszD: any hope of getting it into a repo?	19:19
woglinde	tomaszd hm so they are using gl indirectly	19:19
corecode	ccooke: excellent!	19:19
KamuiWrk	lucent, they better honor it :)	19:19
woglinde	but you are right	19:19
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woglinde	remebering of the wesnoth stuff at oe	19:20
corecode	what about jabber?	19:20
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ccooke	corecode: all voip services use the same dialler, contacts and call list as the cellular calls.	19:20
goodwill	does maemo5 have a less utility in any pf the packages?	19:20
TomaszD	RST38h, I have to figure out this corporate interest conflict first. I need the sdl mixer to support ogg. The default mixer package does not and is maintained by Nokia. Uploading a package that superseds it with ogg support would be a dick move	19:20
goodwill	I am not a fan of more	19:20
ccooke	corecode: jabber's supported out of the box for IM, and uses the same contacts as the voip and SMS - the same app does IM and SMS.	19:20
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woglinde	TomaszD urgs yes	19:21
eijk	Hi! Can anybody give me a hint where the definition of the symbol selector table (invoked with Fn+Ctrl) is?	19:21
corecode	ccooke: that's cool	19:21
woglinde	poor nokia guys	19:21
woglinde	dont like ogg	19:21
jebba1	TomaszD: nothing in extras can replace a core package. that's the roolz.	19:21
corecode	ccooke: so i need to work on migrating all my chat contacts to jabber	19:21
TomaszD	jebba1, I'll try working around this	19:21
woglinde	hi jebba	19:21
corecode	ccooke: i suppose that app is not opensource	19:22
TomaszD	but I don't promise anything	19:22
woglinde	jebba g dont worked for debconf	19:22
jebba1	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176	19:22
povbot`	Bug 176: Ogg Vorbis support out of the box	19:22
jebba1	hhaha	19:22
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ccooke	corecode: there's a plugin for almost every IM app you like - all using the same address book and IM interface.	19:22
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jebba1	TomaszD: perhaps could be broken out into separate package. Or a separate repo along the lines of http://rpmfusion.org could be created.	19:22
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jebba1	it boggles the mind that they wont support ogg. I can sorta understand mp3, but ogg? wtf is the downside?	19:23
corecode	ccooke: well i'm still trying to settle on how i keep chat logs	19:23
TomaszD	jebba1, I don't want a separate package. I'd rather distribute the mixer binary with the game and make the game link against that specific one	19:23
woglinde	TomaszD hm possible could be to rename the package and install the libs in seperate dir	19:23
woglinde	TomaszD hm or link staticl	19:23
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corecode	ccooke: if i have everything through jabber, i can anyways use jabber clients on pc and have all run though the same infrastructure	19:23
redeeman	jebba1: nokia has previously talked about how ogg(specifically theora) is something they won't support, and don't encourage people to use	19:23
woglinde	for sdl-mixer	19:23
ccooke	corecode: My n900, for instance, is connected to a SIP account, skype, gtalk, a second jabber server, aol, icq and yahoo.	19:23
ccooke	(I'm told msn support works, too, but have heard it's not quite as stable)	19:24
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corecode	okay	19:24
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jebba	redeeman: ya, and that is mind boggling ;) Should support wikipedia audio, for instance.	19:25
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redeeman	the people responsible for that at nokia are obviously braindead	19:25
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woglinde	redeeman yes	19:26
Stskeeps	jebba: nokia sponsored kulve getting a n900 to make ogg-support package though	19:26
simula_	is wikipedia audio ogg format?	19:26
corecode	huh? no ogg support?	19:26
woglinde	Stskeeps hm than fix sdl-mixer	19:26
simula_	there is ogg support, but in one of the other repos :)	19:26
woglinde	Stskeeps can you do it?	19:26
Stskeeps	woglinde: the problem is that SDL isn't exactly modular it looks like	19:26
mece	corecode, well you can just install it from the repo. It's just not installed when you get the device.	19:27
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corecode	ok, still...	19:27
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thauta		19:28
Stskeeps	i still don't understand how people who claim to love freedom wants to push ogg on nokia though. it boggles my mind how freedom can turn into "ship our codec or else", where freedom should mean that nokia is free to not ship ogg	19:28
woglinde	Stskeeps eh we want wesnoth	19:29
woglinde	give us this freedom	19:29
RST38h	AFAIK Ogg isn't even free	19:29
Stskeeps	woglinde: you're more than free to dpkg -i a replacement :P	19:29
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woglinde	RST38h not?	19:29
RST38h	Gentlemen, if you are using XChat on your N900s and have not voted yet, please do vote here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xchat/2.8.6-maemo14/	19:30
woglinde	RST38h you want the carma for next device?	19:30
RST38h	woglinde: owned by some company, may infringe on patents from other companies	19:30
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RST38h	woglinde: But of coooourse	19:30
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tybollt	RST38h: ugh - OGG isn't free? :-S	19:30
* tybollt is confused now		19:31
derf	RST38h: Every piece of software in existence may infringe on patents from some other company.	19:31
RST38h	tybollt: Let me google for details, a moment	19:31
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RST38h	derf: there are some specific concerns about ogg	19:31
tybollt	RST38h: cool, thanks	19:31
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lucent	I read through the ogg-on-nokia bug, it's kind of wasting the Nokia engineer's time isn't it?	19:31
* simula_ thought that was the whole point of ogg		19:31
Stskeeps	derf: at least we know with the older codecs that they are patent encumbered and you can fix it for a price	19:31
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derf	RST38h: Then please be specific.	19:31
woglinde	in matters only where patents are holded	19:31
hrw	hi	19:31
tybollt	simula_: exactly... so did I :S	19:31
derf	Stskeeps: That's not tru.e	19:31
woglinde	or was giveb	19:31
derf	*true	19:31
eijk	Yes, please look up the details, otherwise, this sounds like FUD to me...	19:31
woglinde	ars given	19:31
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* Stskeeps gets the popcorn		19:31
derf	You know of _some_ patents for the codec.	19:32
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tybollt	Stskeeps: :-P	19:32
derf	The MPEG-LA by no means guarantees that they license all the required patents.	19:32
derf	In fact they specifically disclaim doing so.	19:32
derf	That's why you see things like MS getting sued for shipping MP3.	19:32
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woglinde	MPEG-LA license are funny anyway	19:33
dmj726	Ya know, somebody should patent the compound word	19:33
jebba	Stskeeps: freedom is setting up our own repos to replace the crappy parts that nokia ships and won't allow to be improved :)	19:33
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dmj726	To promote innovation in spoken language	19:33
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Stskeeps	jebba: i'd say we have that :P	19:33
woglinde	for devices you are royaltiee free if you dont sell more than 100k copies a year	19:34
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lucent	I'm pretty sure that the issue is Nokia's market position does not see a clear and obvious benefit over their competitor's products to include OggVorbis / OggFLAC by default	19:34
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jebba	Stskeeps: exactly. There isn't a unified "free" repo yet, but i imagine that is coming soon enough.	19:34
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lucent	it has very little to do with licensing	19:34
jebba	lucent: ya, except that it is the most voted for bug in bugzilla...	19:34
jebba	so the market is definitely trying to tell them something	19:34
tybollt	in that respect - granted you can just mod your sources.lis - n900 is pretty damn open compared to the godphone and the robots	19:34
lucent	jebba: the bugzilla is not the market	19:35
jebba	RST38h: Woo hoo! I got to be 10th karma voter for xchat. Well, assuming the fkn thing doesn't just spin for the next day.	19:35
Stskeeps	also, there's ogg-support you can add with a install	19:35
Stskeeps	what's the harm?	19:35
Stskeeps	:P	19:35
RST38h	derf: here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13531	19:35
lucent	Stskeeps: battery life suffers greatly	19:35
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Stskeeps	lucent: actually no	19:35
jebba	Stskeeps: the harm is in cases like TomaszD points out: no wesnoth or whatever.	19:35
Stskeeps	lucent: hang on	19:35
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Stskeeps	jebba: we had wesnoth on diablo just fine	19:36
Stskeeps	afaik	19:36
RST38h	jebba: it still requires 10 days period before being promoted	19:36
Stskeeps	look for a solution there	19:36
jebba	lucent: there were tests about battery. I think in the bug report linked above.	19:36
tybollt	no harm really, more of a crude awakening... I was certain ogg and flac were entirely free and unencumbered by those silly patents	19:36
lucent	"free" is not the issue here	19:36
jebba	tybollt: basically they are as free of patents as it comes in anything. Hitting spacebar is probably "patented" too.	19:37
Stskeeps	http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/	19:37
lucent	you want something out-of-the-box on a device that is being marketed to sell against competitor products that do not have these features desired	19:37
SpeedEvil	Believed to be patent free isn't quite the same as obviously being patented.	19:37
RST38h	tybollt: people have patented so much different generic stuff nowadays, that it is almost impossible	19:37
lucent	what's the use to spend time on implementing them for the first gen product?	19:37
RST38h	lucent: The point here is that very few users actually want ogg	19:38
* lucent :)		19:38
RST38h	lucent: But these few are very, VERY vocal	19:38
RST38h	More or less same as with MMS	19:38
tybollt	RST38h: so what's the beef here?	19:38
ali1234	and AT&T 3G support too	19:39
lucent	I can name products that include OggVorbis/FLAC support, but they are not cellular devices	19:39
lucent	SanDisk Sansa Fuze is one such product	19:39
RST38h	tybollt: The guys in that forum thread discuss how ogg uses MDCT encoding, which is apparently patented	19:39
Stskeeps	RST38h: ogg out of the box, that is	19:39
RST38h	Stskeeps: yea	19:39
Stskeeps	i love the freedom that we can add support without issue. that's sufficient for me.	19:39
RST38h	Stskeeps: But not out of the box either. For example, I still have no use for ogg	19:40
goodwill	ah ... I found less	19:40
jebba	RST38h: ya, very few users "want ogg", in Nokia: "Dear user, do you want OGG support?" User: "No". But if it's phrased like, Nokia: "Dear user, would you like wikipedia audio support?" User: "Yes, please". As one example.	19:40
tybollt	RST38h: ugh :S	19:40
lucent	RST38h: why do you keep saying ogg, do you mean ogg? do you mean one of the codecs like FLAC or Vorbis or Speex.... ?	19:40
tybollt	ogg is the container right	19:41
jebba	tybollt: i think we're sorta talking loosely here about ogg* = flac, vorbis, speex.	19:41
tybollt	anyway what I mean is ogg/vorbis, ogg/flac as I wrote	19:41
RST38h	lucent: I mean both Ogg vorbis and Ogg <whatever video thing they have>	19:41
jebba	theora/matroska.	19:41
RST38h	jebba: In my case, the answer will be WHAT?	19:42
RST38h	What wikipedia audio? Who cares?	19:42
RST38h	lucent: My personal experience with vorbis and theora (matroska too btw) has been horrible	19:42
jebba	Uh, wikipedia is like the 10th biggest website in the world, and their default audio format is ogg. Lots of pages (e.g. in wikitionary etc) are using ogg more and more.	19:42
tybollt	Well	19:42
RST38h	lucent: Stuttering, no rewind/forward, unsynced subtitles, crashing players, hanging players	19:42
tybollt	You guys may not remember	19:43
tybollt	but a few years back	19:43
tybollt	when mp3 was the new hot hing	19:43
jebba	RST38h: i have been using ogg theora video with my N900 fine.	19:43
RST38h	jebba: "Ah, fuck that..."	19:43
jebba	looks really good actually.	19:43
tru_	anyone used a a2dp with the n900?	19:43
RST38h	jebba: (that was about 10th site in the world of course)	19:43
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lucent	tybollt: I do remember, in fact have one of those Expanium CD-MP3 players ;P	19:43
jebba	RST38h: ya, but its like a no brainer easy to include. Anyway, we'll have a decent repo to replace this stuff within the next 3-4 months i would assume.	19:43
tybollt	the assholes (pardon my french) over at franuhofer institute threatened to sue EVERYBODY for using mp3 which was theirs and theirs only.	19:43
tybollt	fraunhofer*	19:44
RST38h	jebba: Assume. But I would suggest against holding your breath	19:44
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jebba	oh, i wont hold my breath. I just hope someone else does it ;)	19:44
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TomaszD	so guys, what should I do with the sdl mixer ogg thing, I'm not experienced enough with this	19:46
jebba	TomaszD: Stskeeps said it was in diablo, perhaps check how it was done there.	19:46
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TomaszD	jebba, there's a separate package that conflicts with the one in the sdk, and doesn't even work, terribly ugly	19:47
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jebba	TomaszD: pastebin it.	19:47
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* timeless_mbp sighs		19:48
timeless_mbp	jebba: so... addressbook export is annoying	19:48
TomaszD	someone uploaded http://maemo.org/packages/view/libsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev	19:48
TomaszD	this doesn't work, tried	19:48
woglinde	lol	19:49
woglinde	jebba?	19:49
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RST38h	tomaszd: how about downloading its source and looking at it?	19:49
woglinde	slow slow maemo.org	19:49
* RST38h frankly can't quite understand why ogg requires a separate mixer		19:49
woglinde	its sdl	19:49
woglinde	mixer	19:49
TomaszD	RST38h, I don't care about the source, I'm already compiling wesnoth with ogg support here, I've rolled my own sdl mixer with ogg support that actually works	19:50
woglinde	you can compile it against different sound stuff	19:50
TomaszD	I don't want to make it conflict with the standard package	19:50
TomaszD	that's just retarded to do	19:50
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RST38h	Tomaszd: Ah :)	19:50
timeless_mbp	woglinde: and you can't just configure it to support whatever the system has?	19:50
timeless_mbp	yah static compilation	19:50
woglinde	timeless_mbp alreay mentioned it	19:51
TomaszD	timeless_mbp, a topic I know nothing about, that's why I need help, I see some linker commands here in the configure --help text	19:51
woglinde	and TomaszD has it working so topic is theough	19:51
woglinde	through	19:51
woglinde	okay	19:51
woglinde	till later	19:51
woglinde	I hope I will be get nx stuff working	19:52
TomaszD	but I'd first have to roll a separate working mixer package with ogg support that would work side by side with the crippled one from the sdk	19:52
woglinde	this evening	19:52
RST38h	Arkenoi: Next gadget: http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/light-blue-optics-unveils-light-touch-a-10-inch-touchscreen-pic/	19:52
RST38h	;)	19:52
samueldr	RST38h: woah nice	19:53
lucent	RST38h: based on the showwx from microvision?	19:53
lucent	I got to beta test a showwx	19:53
lucent	it's nice, this concept would work great at short throw distances	19:54
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samueldr	I can see so many hacking possibilities	19:54
TomaszD	or ask everyone to put "either/or" deps for every package that uses the mixer...	19:54
Arkenoi	funny thing, looks quite bulky on the photo though	19:54
lucent	larger throw distances would need a big increase in power, more than can be safetly marketed for a portable consumer device	19:54
lucent	RST38h: best advantage of scanning laser display is the displayed image is always in focus	19:55
ali1234	TomaszD: can't you just set a "provides" tag or whatever it's called	19:56
SpeedEvil	Lasers do not have zero beamwidth.	19:56
RST38h	lucent: =))	19:56
SpeedEvil	A 5mm beam diffracts at a minimum of 0.5 milliradians or so.	19:56
RST38h	lucent: What is the optimal usable distance for showwx?	19:56
SpeedEvil	narrower beams diffract lots more.	19:56
homeasvs	X-Fade, so, it looks like I can now run scratchbox in arm with that new qemu and succesfully build erlang stuff	19:57
homeasvs	X-Fade, I'll let you know if I end up having complete packages built with this	19:57
lucent	RST38h: well, in total darkeness, I set up a rear projection display using a cotton shower curtain at about 7ft throw, and the projected image was... let me measure hang on	19:57
homeasvs	X-Fade, if this works, how do we get it on the builders ?	19:57
jebba	woglinde: wogline?	19:57
RST38h	lucent: That curtain still got burn marks? ;)	19:57
lucent	RST38h: 80" diagonal	19:58
RST38h	Whoah	19:58
RST38h	wanna wanna wanna	19:58
lucent	it wasn't terribly bright	19:58
RST38h	but it is ok, at 80" from such a little thing...	19:58
RST38h	through a layer of cotton too	19:58
lucent	yep! its size is the huge win for a small studio apartment like mine	19:58
lucent	plus I didn't even bother to smooth out the curtain much	19:59
jebba	homeasvs: ah! erlang in the builder! oh noes! ;)	19:59
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lucent	I wish that I'd had a N900 to play with when I beta'd the showwx	19:59
homeasvs	jebba, well, I meant the new qemu that can build erlang :)	19:59
jebba	homeasvs: if you patched up qemu to do it, check the qemu package on maemo.gitorious.org somewhere	19:59
RST38h	lucent: Actually, I tried N900 playing movies on a 32" LCD flat screen	20:00
lucent	RST38h: output is okay?	20:00
homeasvs	jebba, no, I just built that gitorious version to see if it worked	20:00
homeasvs	jebba, and it does	20:00
RST38h	lucent: Does not look very good (both PC and BBK DVD player were much better)	20:00
jebba	homeasvs: git://gitorious.org/qemu-maemo/qemu-maemo.git	20:00
jebba	ah ok	20:00
RST38h	lucent: But watchable still	20:00
homeasvs	jebba, so my question is, what needs to happen to replace the builder's version with this new one	20:00
timeless_mbp	andre__: does 7397 have anything to do w/ browser?	20:00
jebba	heh. homeasvs suggest taking that to maemo-devel	20:01
jebba	my guess that it won't happen until the infamous "server move" is complete	20:01
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lucent	RST38h: oh okay, what is the breakout cable, I see one red two yellow	20:01
RST38h	lucent: I suspect it will look better on a projector, LCD showed too many signal artefacts	20:01
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dmj726	It doesn't look as good as a dvd (might also be the quality of videos), but it's very handy to connect it to a tv	20:01
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RST38h	lucent: video/right/left	20:01
andre__	timeless_mbp, feel free to move it to Multimedia/GStreamer	20:02
lucent	RST38h: right you are, I have one of those fancy LED Pharox 60W bulbs that is warm white, makes every white colour yellow :P	20:02
RST38h	lucent: One interesting thing is that N900 feels much slower on the big screen than on its own screen	20:02
timeless_mbp	andre__: done	20:02
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dmj726	RST38h: I think it might be slower	20:02
timeless_mbp	andre__: can i change the description of the mail product to mention the classification for sync too?	20:03
RST38h	dmj726: What is it doing? Pushing extra pixels to a secondary screen buffer?	20:03
SpeedEvil	lucent: are those the ones witrh no blue output at all?	20:03
RST38h	Or using memory bandwidth for a TV encoder?	20:03
dmj726	I know it's not outputing the exact same pixels	20:03
TomaszD	ali1234, that's actually a good idea man	20:03
RST38h	yea, I have heard that a few times	20:03
dmj726	Some apps (kmplayer) output different things to eachs creen	20:03
lucent	SpeedEvil: I don't know about blue. the Pharox 60W would be something I'd replace an incadescant 40w bulb with	20:03
andre__	timeless_mbp, sure	20:04
fiferboy	TomaszD: Yeah SDL mixer is another problem :)	20:04
TomaszD	fiferboy, how about a separate package that Provides the standard SDK one	20:04
* RST38h has got a 35W fluorescent		20:04
TomaszD	will that tag be respected?	20:04
timeless_mbp	done, thanks	20:04
fiferboy	TomaszD: That is what Glenn did for the OS2008 build, he called it libsdlmixer_onlyoggandwav, or something	20:04
RST38h	Which is pretty nice, but it definitely is not bright enough to justify its "like 120W" moniker and also looks like an alien anal probe	20:05
TomaszD	fiferboy, thanks, I'll try that, he already provided a package for fremantle, but it doesn't work at all, I'll roll my own this evening	20:05
fiferboy	TomaszD: I never had luck with his package either	20:05
lucent	RST38h: noted.	20:05
TomaszD	bbl food	20:05
fiferboy	TomaszD: It might be he changed something other than just the depend	20:06
lucent	CFLs end up in the wastebin at every workplace I've been to	20:07
lucent	it's a big heavy metals hazard	20:07
RST38h	Oh well	20:07
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* RST38h kinda suspect that CFLs are on the low end of the hazard range where he lives		20:07
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lucent	RST38h: oh, I did not mention, I work in a movie theater	20:07
jebba	anyone using sbdmock or similar autobuilders? I'm going to set up sbdmock unless there is something better.	20:07
lucent	I tried the show wx on a cinema screen :P	20:08
* jebba goes to read old thread started on this hehe		20:08
RST38h	lucent: <hate> + <envy>	20:08
lucent	the throw is about perfect, but it's not bright enough and our emergency exit sign's overcast overpowers it	20:08
RST38h	heh	20:09
lucent	sitting in the front row you can make a nice bright image about 2" diagonal	20:09
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lucent	cinema film projector bulbs are about 2000W	20:10
lucent	it's not surprising that the brightness isn't comparable	20:10
* RST38h has seen laser projectors in a few places		20:11
RST38h	Baltimore Aquarium uses them, for one	20:11
lucent	full colour?	20:11
RST38h	They are pretty impressive	20:11
RST38h	lucent: Only seend full color here, in the Darwin Museum	20:11
lucent	okay	20:11
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RST38h	lucent: But I do not think it had enough resolution	20:12
lucent	the Microvision tech is great, it will end up in a Nokia product eventually	20:12
Arkenoi	as my notebook died i watch movies alot with n900	20:12
lucent	that is my guess	20:12
Arkenoi	with 3m mpro120 pocket projector	20:12
lucent	Arkenoi: which media player is your preference	20:12
Arkenoi	native one	20:13
Arkenoi	mplayer is too slow	20:13
dnaumov	is anyone here using Handbrake to transcode videos to be viewed on their N900? is it possible to transcode the video but do a direct steam copy of the audio track from source to destination? its really silly to re-encode an already lossy 128-192kbps audio again into AAC, reducing the quality even further...	20:13
Arkenoi	mencoder -ac copy	20:14
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dmj726	I don't bother to transcode anything to use on the n900	20:14
dmj726	It's not necessary	20:14
Arkenoi	me neither, except it is HD	20:14
dnaumov	dmj726: good luck watching 1080p...	20:14
dmj726	If it's 1080p then yeah	20:14
jebba	anyone know if mplayer is built with N900/ARM optimizations?	20:14
jebba	neon etc	20:15
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lucent	dnaumov: I thought you could do it with Handbrake, but I haven't used Handbrake recently so I can't verify that	20:17
lucent	more of a question for Handbrake devs	20:17
Gadgetoid_iMac	dnaumov: you can pass-through the audio in Handbrake	20:17
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\|R	I'm wondering if google will announce anything more than the Nexus One in the next few minutes...	20:22
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dmj726	they're announcing that today?	20:23
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\|R	rightn ow	20:24
\|R	right now	20:25
\|R	http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/01/google-android-event-liveblog.ars	20:25
Gadgetoid_iMac	Nexus One = Fail	20:25
RST38h	why?	20:25
Gadgetoid_iMac	It fixes all the bad points in the Droid, but adopts none of the good points...	20:25
\|R	yeah, i'm not getting it either	20:25
RST38h	Googlers are absolutely awed by it	20:25
Gadgetoid_iMac	Googlers are idiots	20:25
RST38h	Not the ones I know	20:25
Gadgetoid_iMac	They wouldn't know a smartphone if you rammed one up each nostril and set them to vibrate	20:25
RST38h	Nexus has no real unified messaging though, so it is a no go	20:26
hrw	Gadgetoid_iMac: I could say same thing about nokians	20:26
Gadgetoid_iMac	It has no keyboard... how are you going to do any unified messaging on it!	20:26
tigert	kuriiri: got any luck with the access point stuff?	20:26
Gadgetoid_iMac	hrw: You could, but to rise above that I would just like to say: HTC TyTN II FTW!	20:26
hrw	Gadgetoid_iMac: tytn2? that crappy qvga brick?	20:27
Gadgetoid_iMac	hrw: Blasthemy!!!	20:27
Gadgetoid_iMac	(it was a brick, though)	20:27
dmj726	eh, they can have their device	20:27
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dmj726	I'm happy with mine.	20:27
tybollt	I can edit my sources.list... what can googlers do? Submit to google store?	20:28
Gadgetoid_iMac	I like Google store, it's better than the Apple app store in a few ways	20:29
* tybollt shrug - if godphone and robots want to drink the koolaid - by all means... I'm perfectly happy w/ my n900 =)		20:29
Gadgetoid_iMac	But it's also packed full of total dross	20:29
Gadgetoid_iMac	I wonder if I should try and finish porting Rocks'n'Diamonds	20:30
hrw	tybollt: I would like to have sane dev environment in maemo5	20:30
RST38h	hrw: You should tel him the same about Applers! =)	20:31
hrw	with current dev tools	20:31
dmj726	seems like it's just made to flash pretty colors	20:31
dmj726	also, why does it have 2 mics but only one camera?	20:31
hrw	RST38h: I used iphones for <30 minutes since they appeared on market	20:31
hrw	RST38h: so I prefer to not comment	20:31
RST38h	hrw: You mean, you have already been contaminated? =)	20:32
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hrw	que?	20:32
RST38h	By the apple virus!	20:32
dmj726	don't worry, the apple virus can be cured by a good dose of debian	20:33
Gadgetoid_iMac	The iPhone is an undeniably great device, but it's just a trumped up featurephone to any self respecting geek	20:33
SpeedEvil	dmj726: also by boiling for 5 minutes, and serving with pork.	20:33
dmj726	hmm...animated wallpaper	20:34
hrw	RST38h: from apple products I used: MacOS 7.1/7.5.5/7.6.1 in Shapeshifter emulator (on Amiga), LC 475 (for fun), powerbook 180c (we tried to hack it a bit), powermac g5 (as web machine at friend home), iphone 2g/3g/3gs for <half hour in total	20:34
jebba	i have an iphone sitting here. pretty annoying device actually. Need a special stupid tool to even get the SIM out.	20:34
SpeedEvil	jebba: it's called an axe.	20:34
* RST38h found today that gebrick has been contaminated and is totally lost to us		20:34
dmj726	;anybody try this with maemo?	20:34
RST38h	hrw: Ah, you had an Amiga?	20:34
hrw	RST38h: yes	20:35
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* Arkenoi wishes it to be the way to ignore applications in sotware catalog forever (or, at least, unltil i un-ignore it). too many *-zhhk stuff to scroll through		20:35
tybollt	dmj726: hmm animgif? mjpeg?	20:35
dmj726	would that work on n900 wallpaper?	20:35
hrw	RST38h: A600 bought in 1995, then added HDD, 2MB ram, switched to A1200, ended with A1200 040/40 2+64MB ram, 17GB hdd, vga mono	20:35
RST38h	Arkenoi: which section did that stuff got to?	20:35
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RST38h	hrw: I bought a used A2000 in the US, then got a similarly used A3000	20:36
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hrw	a3000 was best model released	20:36
RST38h	the multiple screens thing felt absolutely amazing at the time	20:36
Arkenoi	extras devel	20:36
hrw	a3000+ was greatest ever built	20:36
RST38h	Arkenoi: no, which section inside extras-devel?	20:36
RST38h	hrw: well mine was kinda slow, but worked	20:37
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* RST38h even mounted his university account as a disk. Over a modem. Using some really ugly kludge.		20:37
hrw	RST38h: default a3000 is slow like hell - you need good cpu card - cyberstorm for example	20:37
RST38h	didn't have money for a card	20:38
Arkenoi	system	20:38
tybollt	amiga was good for its time but the lack of mmu was ... well	20:38
RST38h	ah, ok, so the chinese guy littered all over system	20:38
* RST38h wondered where the crap went		20:38
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LuciusMare	omg	20:38
LuciusMare	how to record videos on fremantle?	20:38
lbt	Stskeeps: ping	20:39
hrw	run camera tool, switch to video	20:39
RST38h	tybollt: thanks to lack of mmu amiga had shorter context switch time than Sun	20:39
LuciusMare	hrw: where? any picture?	20:39
tybollt	LuciusMare: open the cam door on your mobile and voila record	20:39
SpeedEvil	LuciusMare: opwn rhwe shutter, select 'A' - selectr videwo	20:39
LuciusMare	i didnt find the icon	20:39
LuciusMare	hm	20:39
SpeedEvil	And it should be _way_ more obvious trhan that	20:39
LuciusMare	ow	20:39
hrw	LuciusMare: camera app suxx	20:39
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tybollt	RST: Bleeding fast... sure.	20:39
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RST38h	It also had an OS architecture that some people are still striving to achieve nowadays	20:40
LuciusMare	exactly, SpeedEvil.	20:40
RST38h	(penguins included)	20:40
LuciusMare	thank you.	20:40
tybollt	RST38h: the die hard miggy people still claim lack of mmu produced better programmers since if you fucked up you'd die harder... I dunno that's a religious war I suppose ;)	20:40
hrw	RST38h: Sun also used m68k at that time	20:41
hrw	RST38h: remember then Sun workstations were used to develop AmigaOS 0.x	20:41
Arkenoi	gTranslate is handy, but it does not remember language preferences. I doubt many of us need translation to and from afrikaans	20:42
dmj726	Sounds like the nexus phone has good voice command abilities	20:42
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jebba	Arkenoi: there is qstardict now :)	20:42
hrw	dmj726: probably even nokia 6310i had better voice command abilities then n900	20:42
dmj726	I don't really care about voice that much	20:42
leon-	anybody know how to reflash the device back to sales release firmware if for some reason you would have ended up with something else on your device? :)	20:43
dmj726	My 5 year old dumb phone had a bit of voice stuff.	20:43
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dmj726	which I despised	20:43
RST38h	hrw: Yes, but the context switch time was compared with a SPARC running SunOS 4.3	20:43
hrw	leon-: wiki.maemo.org has info	20:44
RST38h	tybollt: naaah, it just made programs crash and take whole system with them	20:44
dmj726	now give me a phone that lets me subvocalize my phone calls, and I'll be impressed	20:44
\|R	well, the nexus gets full voice support everywhere it seems	20:44
leon-	hrw, many thanks...	20:44
jebba	hey, can i get some testing/karma for this? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/burgerspace/1.8.3-18/ I friend in USA wants it, but i dont even dare suggest he enable extras-testing ;)	20:44
RST38h	tybollt: but it was way less frequent than some people pictured it to be	20:44
RST38h	jebba: -testing is relatively safe to enable	20:45
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RST38h	-devel I would not	20:45
dmj726	The full voice support is interesting, but I wouldn't end up using it much	20:45
hrw	leon-: you jsut need firmware image and flasher-3.5 tool. if you are using windows then you can also try NSU but I do not know does it supports n900	20:45
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jebba	heh. RST38h, ya, but there's some users that you know you dont even want to suggest that...	20:45
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RST38h	oh	20:45
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RST38h	we call them the iphone users =)	20:46
hrw	bb in few	20:46
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jebba	plus is pretty innocuous package/game	20:46
ali1234	jebba: just have him install the dpkg directly then?	20:46
jebba	RST38h: exactly. he's an i*/apple user...	20:46
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jebba	ali1234: dude, i'm not even going to bother with command lline stuff with this user. trust me.	20:46
jebba	it'll take 8 hours.	20:46
ali1234	then make an .install	20:46
jebba	or just get 4 karma points and it's in extras. done.	20:46
leon-	hrw, yes I have flashed the device like 100 times already but after flashing it the sim card is no longer usable	20:46
jebba	and others can use it too....	20:47
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jebba	anyone know a way to search pacakges by maintainer? e.g. what packages i've submitted and forgot abotu? hah	20:49
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SpeedEvil	Is there a simple dialog tool runnable from shell?	20:49
SpeedEvil	something like xdialog	20:49
RST38h	Ok, reboot. Going to try making a keyboard layout switch applet	20:49
leon-	I even tried cold flashing but no use that one either..	20:49
jebba	SpeedEvil: i thought i saw zenity somewhere	20:50
jebba	ya, it's in extras-*something	20:50
SpeedEvil	interesting	20:51
SpeedEvil	thjanks!	20:51
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SpeedEvil	Sounds interesting.	20:51
dnaumov	Gadgetoid_iMac: I thought the pass-through was only for when the source was AC3?	20:51
SpeedEvil	I want to do 0th cut of some near-trivial apps	20:51
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SpeedEvil	awk+shell+gnuplot can do lots	20:51
Gadgetoid_iMac	dnaumov: I'm sure you can pass-through any source, it would be silly not to be able to... I'd have to check	20:51
* SpeedEvil notes bad typing is due to gloves.		20:52
SpeedEvil	Sorry for any inconvenience.	20:52
\|R	N900 has dual Mic right?	20:53
hrw	leon-: does sim work in other phone? if yes then report bug. if not then replace it	20:53
SpeedEvil	\|R: don['t think so	20:53
leon-	hrw, it works	20:54
matthew-	\|R: no	20:54
\|R	uhm ok, i thought i saw stereo recording somewhere	20:54
Gadgetoid_iMac	dnaumov: surely leaving the target audio settings the same as the source would imply a pass-through... AAC and DTS pass-through are explicit pass-through settings for the original tracks on DVDs	20:56
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jebba	gah, builder down again	20:56
jebba	or is that unmentionable now?	20:56
jebba	Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/fremantle/tools/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz 504 Gateway Time-out [IP: 193.184.164.146 80]	20:56
jebba	just when i thought it was safe to submit jobs again ;)	20:57
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slonopotamus	is it only me lacking scrollbar for userlist in fremantle xchat?	21:01
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wazd_e63	Oh, nexus one will be released today?	21:10
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Pavlov	it is out	21:11
jebba	hmm, how hackable nexus one?	21:11
Pavlov	http://google.com/phone	21:11
jebba	i see some google fones can use ofono.	21:11
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Pavlov	dunno, ill let you know how it is tomorrow	21:17
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Sir_Lancelot	Now that Nexus is official, N900 has a long way to catch up, to compensate the hard work of having it inside my pocket :D	21:18
Sir_Lancelot	funny, how much eye-candyness is appreciated ;)	21:19
luke-jr	Sir_Lancelot: but does Nexus have a keyboard? :P	21:19
corecode	RST38h: that ha forum thread does not conclusively inform whether vorbis is covered by patents or not	21:19
Sir_Lancelot	screw the KB. If the digital KB is good, than it's no worse than a physical one	21:19
jebba	any clue how many apps android has?	21:20
zash	bah, sandboxed pseudojava	21:20
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jebba	ah, android "store" has 20,000 applications. Hmm, wtf. That's more than debian. How can that be?	21:21
dnaumov	why would you want nexus one? ita droid that looks only slightly better than the original droid (which was ugly in both aesthetics and performance department)	21:21
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zash	does it have over 9000 flashlight apps?	21:21
ali1234	jebba: debian doesn't have any where near as many fart apps	21:21
jebba	haha	21:21
jebba	ya. Better than 100 apps in extras though :(	21:22
wazd_e63	lancelot: believe me, no onscreen keyboard can deal with proper hardware	21:22
wazd_e63	Hardware ftw	21:22
ali1234	not only that but the nexus is HTC	21:22
mavhc	no multitouch, no point	21:22
ali1234	that means it will fall apart if you look at it funny	21:23
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RST38h	mavhc: do not forget it must have capacitive screen, support mms, and itunes	21:23
RST38h	mavhc: Otherwise it is not worthy!	21:23
Sir_Lancelot	but you have to agree with me, that N900 is far from being eye-candy	21:23
Sir_Lancelot	and there's a lack of apps	21:23
ali1234	not really	21:23
Sir_Lancelot	there's no app for Facbeook, for example	21:23
RST38h	what is Facebook?	21:24
Sir_Lancelot	and the Twitter apps are kinda lame yet...	21:24
Arkenoi	Sir_Lancelot, iir there is one?	21:24
jebba	to my newbie amigo from apple/iphone world that has n900 he thinks there's a lack of apps. I told him "oh just wait" weeks ago, and since then there's been like 15 new apps. Whoopie.	21:24
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ali1234	i don't see why anyone would buy a n900 to use facebook and twitter	21:24
moo-_-	touch.facebook.com	21:25
Arkenoi	i remember one of first things i deleted from my n900 was "facebook app" or "facebook app downloader", cannot remember exactly which one	21:25
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wazd_e63	there is a website	21:25
davyg	Sir_Lancelot, never heard that debian has a lack of app	21:25
moo-_-	who needs an app...	21:25
wazd_e63	Why would you need an app	21:25
jebba	ali1234: they don't buy it to use facebook and twitter. They buy it to do all sorts of stuff, and that's one of the things.	21:25
RST38h	jebba: But there were 1500 new apps at the apple appstore at the same time!	21:25
jebba	exactly. Tons of stuff RST38h	21:25
RST38h	iPhone is superior! It's better!	21:25
moo-_-	jebba: most of apps are just rebranded websites	21:25
moo-_-	mobile internet is not about apps	21:25
myosound	1500 fart apps	21:26
Sir_Lancelot	so, if I understood correclty, there's no use for social network apps on N900, right?	21:26
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: what you could do with an app which you cannot do using a browser?	21:26
wazd_e63	rst38h, e63 ftw, shut up!)	21:26
* Arkenoi uses n900 with livejournal and linkedin all the time but never seen any need of "apps"		21:26
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jebba	moo-_-: perhaps, but theres also thousands of useful apps too. By just dismissing it by saying "fart apps" and stuff you are just putting your head in the sand to the reality that android and iphone are WAY ahead of maemo in terms of applciations.	21:26
moo-_-	jebba: yeah I know	21:26
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moo-_-	I am a mobile app developer myself	21:26
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ali1234	so what are these amazingly useful apps?	21:26
moo-_-	including iphone :)	21:26
Sir_Lancelot	because of the size of the screen, moo-_-	21:26
Arkenoi	actually syncing contacts with those might be handy, but i hardly see anything other an "application" may bring	21:26
* ifreq makes new social app --> run facebook on fullscreen		21:27
TomaszD	fiferboy, when I'm running maemo-optify it complains Cannot chdir to debian/wesnoth-data	21:27
ifreq	who wants to buy??	21:27
jebba	ali1234: well, there was one he was using to study biology. It had all the parts of the body, muscles, etc. he used for skool. Was very impressive little app.	21:27
jebba	lots of specialized things like that.	21:27
ifreq	Arkenoi: hermes can do the synckin with twitter and facebook, its cool :)	21:27
Sir_Lancelot	of course the browser supports everything...the problem is that the webpage is optimized fpor bigger screens	21:27
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: touch.facebook.com	21:27
Sir_Lancelot	If I want to make a tweet	21:27
Arkenoi	ifreq: i know, but i do not use either one ;-)	21:27
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: m.twitter.com	21:27
Sir_Lancelot	I wan't it fat	21:27
ifreq	Arkenoi: you won :)	21:27
fiferboy	TomaszD: I have no experience with optify, but don't you just specify it in a file in the debian directory?	21:27
moo-_-	and by the way, there is a twitter app nowadays :)	21:28
jebba	fiferboy: just do "echo auto > debian/optify"	21:28
moo-_-	or several of them	21:28
jebba	fiferboy: then you can run maemo-optify-deb on your completed debs	21:28
RST38h	By the way...	21:28
Sir_Lancelot	so, in this case, what is the expectation for N900? what will be the "Wow" apps that will come up	21:28
fiferboy	jebba: Right, thanks	21:28
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moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: skype is integrated directly to your address book	21:28
Sir_Lancelot	in the future?	21:28
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: so no skype app needed	21:28
RST38h	If N900 is so great, why there is no Heater App for N900 yet?!?	21:28
TomaszD	jebba, what about the autobuilder?	21:28
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: phone itself is the "skype"	21:29
jebba	fiferboy: you can also add Build-Depends: maemo-optify but that isnt necessary in the builder anymore.	21:29
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: also I think facebook will be integrated in the near future too	21:29
KamuiWrk	crapola	21:29
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KamuiWrk	I did it again	21:29
KamuiWrk	rootfs full	21:29
myosound	firefox and xterm are the wow apps for n900	21:29
moo-_-	there is also MSN integration, AOL, ICQ already. you name it	21:29
fiferboy	jebba: And the autobuilder picks up from the optify file as well?	21:29
jebba	TomaszD: what about the autobuilder? I dont understand. You just need to do "echo auto > debian/optify" for the builder to optify, if that's what you are asking.	21:29
jebba	fiferboy: yes, exactl.y	21:30
fiferboy	jebba: Thanks!	21:30
jebba	np	21:30
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TomaszD	jebba, you mean I should put a file optify in the debian folder, with auto as its content?	21:31
Arkenoi	so what about that fecesbook app shipped with my n900? was i hallucinating?	21:31
Sir_Lancelot	What could be my expectation for N900? what will be the "Wow" apps that will come up	21:31
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KamuiWrk	is /usr/share on the rootfs?	21:31
Sir_Lancelot	in the future?	21:31
corecode	crayon physics!	21:31
KamuiWrk	Im thinking about relinking it	21:31
corecode	that would be a cool app	21:31
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: firefox	21:31
KamuiWrk	seems to have about 125m on it	21:31
moo-_-	it syncs with your desktop browser	21:31
woglinde	re	21:31
Sir_Lancelot	Arkenoi that is a widget...barely called an application	21:32
RST38h	"Whenever you want to go fanboy harassing, go after 2PM because if they don't have the charger with them, that device is like a brick in the water."	21:32
jebba	TomaszD: exactly	21:32
RST38h	ehehe	21:32
TomaszD	jebba, thanks, didn't know that. Is that documented somewhere?	21:32
RST38h	Sir_Lancelot: What is facebook? Why do I need it?	21:32
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jebba	KamuiWrk: be careful with relinking. There are some discsussions about it in talk.mo	21:32
RST38h	Is it some website?	21:32
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jebba	TomaszD: uh, ya probably somewhere heh.	21:32
moo-_-	RST38h: facebook is for people with facebook friends :)	21:32
jebba	TomaszD: fiferboy see: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Package_Building_HOWTO	21:33
RST38h	moo: Are "facebook friends" the same happy people I sometimes see in SIMS screenshots?	21:33
RST38h	like...virtual people?	21:33
ml-mobile	:( watchdog strikes again	21:33
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ali1234	RST38h: no "facebook friends" are the people outside your basement	21:33
TomaszD	jebba, thanks	21:34
jebba	would be nice if we could just shoot the watchdog in the head. Perhaps time to poke at that in the kernel.	21:34
TomaszD	jebba, thought about adding info about the maemo-specific fields in control?	21:34
RST38h	ali1234: I do not have a basement.	21:34
jebba	TomaszD: such as what?	21:34
ali1234	RST38h: virtual basement	21:34
RST38h	ali1234: I do not have a virtual basement.	21:34
TomaszD	jebba, XB-Maemo-Display-Name, XB-Description, things like that	21:35
jebba	hahah. #1 iphone free app is kamasutra something (me looking at his iphone for first time)	21:35
KamuiWrk	jebba, thanks for the advice, I guess Ill just run the optify script, just didn't want to wait 30 minutes for it to build a list of installed apps	21:35
jebba	TomaszD: i think i have some of that in there, ya.	21:35
jebba	KamuiWrk: np	21:35
Arkenoi	is there working barcode scanner?	21:35
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: there is no difference between skype callls and normal phone calls. there is no difference between skype chat and SMS messages. that's nifty.	21:36
RST38h	Arkenoi: /msg lardman	21:36
jebba	TomaszD: ah, ya, i see i dont have them in my wiki page. Need to update that for use with a GUI app.	21:36
TomaszD	jebba, no, you don't. May I add those?	21:36
jebba	TomaszD: ya, go for it thx!	21:36
TomaszD	ok	21:36
Sir_Lancelot	let's see if I can make my self understand	21:36
moo-_-	by the way does someone have a script to turn skype on when you arrive to home wlan?	21:36
Sir_Lancelot	what I'm asking, is which are the objectivs for N900?	21:36
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jebba	oh, there's a Dakar application for iphone. spongebob too heh.	21:36
crashanddie	yooooo bitches	21:36
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myosound	Sir_Lancelot: I'd say n900 is the "debian in your pocket" hacker phone	21:37
Sir_Lancelot	I know what the phone does...I have already for 1 month, and thanks to you guys, I've been loving it	21:37
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: good browser and very good surfing experience	21:37
Sir_Lancelot	however, I'm distant enough to clearly identify the good and bad things about it	21:37
villager	ali1234: my accelerometer is busted again... did you want me to try stuff?	21:37
ali1234	villager: yes	21:37
Sir_Lancelot	and with soo many offers outside, I'm curious to know where N900 is going	21:37
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ali1234	villager: hang on while i upload some shiz	21:38
jebba	ah, but i have to sign up to even install "free" applications.	21:38
jebba	PLONK	21:38
Arkenoi	Fatal error: Call to undefined method midcom_application::get_error_string() in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/maemo/brainstorm/handler/solution.php on line 1	21:38
Sir_Lancelot	if it's only web surfing...then It's good enough already. It would be a shame if that would be the only objective...	21:38
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: I think there is no third-party integration to contacts on other platforms	21:38
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RST38h	imagine that, this whole monstrosity is written in php...	21:38
jebba	Arkenoi: where's that?	21:38
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jebba	ah brainstorm	21:39
Sir_Lancelot	maybe N900 is not the phone for me. That's what I'm trying to understand	21:39
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Arkenoi	line 100 actually	21:39
Arkenoi	yep, brainstorm	21:39
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: it is not for everyone	21:39
jebba	Arkenoi: outage reports go here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5818	21:39
povbot`	Bug 5818: We need servers	21:39
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RST38h	Server?	21:39
ali1234	villager: go here: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/	21:39
RST38h	No, someone needs to figure out this mess.	21:39
RST38h	No server.	21:39
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ali1234	villager: download the i2c tools, stick them on to the phone	21:40
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villager	ali1234: ok	21:40
woglinde	rst he mails are on the new server now	21:40
Sir_Lancelot	you're right moo-_-	21:40
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: if your objectives are many games and fun, N900 is not for you	21:40
jebba	RST38h: i dont understand. Usually the server outage bugs are supposed to be reported here, AFAIK: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5818	21:40
povbot`	Bug 5818: We need servers	21:40
woglinde	rst so the hope of transition isnt down	21:40
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moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: I think N900 is more about business than entertainment	21:40
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moo-_-	iPhone is all about entertainment	21:40
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RST38h	woglinde: I now strongly believe that the problems are not due to the hardware =(	21:40
woglinde	rst only mails	21:41
woglinde	not www	21:41
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RST38h	ok, let us see what happens when www is transitioned	21:41
jebba	RST38h: someone mentioned in #maemo-meeting today they have an optimization for brainstorm to speed it up. Not sure what they are waiting for tho	21:41
Sir_Lancelot	moo -_- I see things being developed	21:41
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Sir_Lancelot	in extras-devel	21:41
Sir_Lancelot	that are amazing	21:41
Sir_Lancelot	like the RDS FM transmitter thing	21:41
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: the phone has been on market just one mo	21:41
Sir_Lancelot	and so on..	21:41
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jebba	ya, just need to get them to get into extras.	21:41
Sir_Lancelot	and the BT keybord and mouse	21:41
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Sir_Lancelot	there are great achievements	21:42
woglinde	jebba exchanging the crappy webserver and cms?	21:42
Sir_Lancelot	which no other phone will have	21:42
woglinde	duck and hide	21:42
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KamuiWrk	I was impressed by the thread on improving the transmitters power	21:42
KamuiWrk	is that legit?	21:42
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: though open source community shapes the direction geekdom and hackery are not the only factors behind N900	21:42
KamuiWrk	everyone seems to claim in there that it works	21:42
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Sir_Lancelot	I'm just wondering if it will stop here and focus only on web browsing	21:42
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: though they are very good ones if you are into it	21:42
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jebba	woglinde: no clue. I assume it's just something like a better SQL SELECT or something	21:42
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Sir_Lancelot	or if devs will focus also in other things	21:42
jebba	but no idea beyond that. Tis practically secret wtf they do.	21:42
mtnbkr	anyone else experience that subfolders of INBOX on an imap server don't show up in the mail app on N900/maemo5? sadly my iPhone handled my IMAP and all folders cleanly and intelligently while the curent mail app on my N900 struggles to d/l all emails in a folder and when there are a lot it akes forever - even on wifi.	21:42
villager	ali1234: just the 3 i2c* ones? done	21:43
ali1234	yes	21:43
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moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: Nokia will surely pursuit iPhone and Android... it would be crazy to do otherwise. Nokia would fall to be low-end phone manufacturer only	21:43
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ali1234	villager: ok, ssh in to phone, and do: rmmod lis302dl	21:43
villager	ali1234: now what?	21:43
ali1234	then: ./i2cdump 3 0x1d	21:43
SpeedEvil	KamuiWrk: it doesnt meaningfully improve it	21:43
ali1234	and pastebin output	21:43
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Sir_Lancelot	forcing Symbian has brought them to that place...	21:44
KamuiWrk	SpeedEvil: roh noes!	21:44
SpeedEvil	KamuiWrk: at least - here - the default is already the max	21:44
RST38h	moo: iPhone is pointless to pursue	21:44
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SpeedEvil	KamuiWrk: and the max power kinda sucks utterly.	21:44
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mtnbkr	ali1234: to answer your question from a few minutes ago re: good apps on iphone... I loved the gutiar tuner app and even emailed the devs to see if they would consider a maemo port - it was/is awesome and is much more than a simple tuner too	21:44
RST38h	moo: It is a cult, not a thing any more	21:44
villager	ali1234: http://pastebin.com/m6faf050f	21:45
TomaszD	jebba, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Package_Building_HOWTO#debian.2Fcontrol	21:45
Sir_Lancelot	just ot make it clear: I hate iphone	21:45
Sir_Lancelot	LOL	21:45
RST38h	moo: Android is pursuable, especially considering how many things Google just does not get about phones	21:45
ali1234	villager: ok that's good	21:45
jebba	TomaszD: rad! THx!	21:45
ali1234	villager: hang on while i check datasheet for next command	21:45
moo-_-	RST38h: If you look behind fanboyism, iPhone has the best usability of modern phones, still. Apple has shown how to do appstore correctly.	21:45
TomaszD	jebba, np	21:45
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RST38h	moo: This does not matter	21:45
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RST38h	moo: What matters is that it is a cult	21:46
moo-_-	RST38h: are you saying that usability does not matter?	21:46
RevdKathy	mtnbkr - I thinkthere is a tuner app, isn;t there? In testing if not in extras	21:46
SpeedEvil	RST38h: Oooh - cult	21:46
SpeedEvil	!	21:46
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mtnbkr	Sir_Lancelot: lol iPhone is nice but I HATED all the DRM and other LOCK INS... Day one on my N900 I was playing all my ogg vorbis files. Screw Apple. :)	21:46
SpeedEvil	RST38h: Do we get ceremonial robes?	21:46
RST38h	moo: Oh usability matters but even if iPhone were unusable, it would not make a difference	21:46
jebba	ya, defintely screw apple ;)	21:46
ifreq	SpeedEvil: yeah ofcoors	21:46
moo-_-	RST38h: ah	21:46
ifreq	can i hold the dagger	21:46
ifreq	moo will be sacrifised	21:47
RST38h	ifreq: Yea	21:47
ali1234	villager: ok now: ./i2cset 3 0x1d 0x21 0x40	21:47
RevdKathy	mtnbkr: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/tuner/	21:47
moo-_-	RST38h: however, there are rational arguments where iPhone is good, not Good	21:47
ali1234	villager: and then ./i2cdump 3 0x1d again, and pastebin output	21:47
RST38h	ifreq: You hold the dagger, SpeedEvil will be at the altar, in his ceremonial robes	21:47
mtnbkr	RevdKathy: yeah, I have it but there is no comparison. Not even one thing is comparable. the Guitar Tuner app on iPhone I had had all sorts of chord configs, metronome, and more. pretty slick acually.	21:47
woglinde	ali uh what are thes commands do to i2c?	21:47
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RST38h	ifreq: I will go bring something to collect the blood into	21:47
moo-_-	RST38h: it was big mistake for Nokia to ignore iPhone when it was released... it made them to look like idiots today	21:47
ali1234	woglinde: they send i2c raw packets	21:47
SpeedEvil	where are i2c	21:48
SpeedEvil	* tools	21:48
SpeedEvil	?	21:48
ali1234	woglinde: i2cdump reads the whole i2c register address apce	21:48
villager	ali1234: http://pastebin.com/m63738241	21:48
ali1234	SpeedEvil: i compiled them myself	21:48
woglinde	i2dump us clear	21:48
woglinde	is clear	21:48
RST38h	moo: Nokia is a huge company which explicitly abandoned touch devices years ago	21:48
RST38h	moo: It has got lots of inertia. Hence the reaction.	21:48
villager	ali1234: perhaps we need to reset the boot bit also?	21:48
ali1234	villager: i thought 0x40 was the boot bit	21:49
ali1234	try 0x02 instead maybe the endianness is wrong	21:49
villager	ali1234: yes, but you just set it, also need to reset it back to 0?	21:49
Sir_Lancelot	and how about PalmPre	21:49
Sir_Lancelot	is Linux	21:49
Sir_Lancelot	open source and so on	21:49
Arkenoi	well, apple's idea is "fuck the long tail". make something that fits perfectly for 90% users and just do not care if the rest becomes upset. most people's usage patterns are simple (who said "stupid"? ;-) and if you do not fit, apple is not for you. i don't.	21:49
Sir_Lancelot	but looks good!	21:49
jX	as well as all the android phones	21:49
RST38h	Sir: PalmPre is dead afaik	21:49
villager	ali1234: I can try to set it back to 0	21:49
jX	RST38h: what?	21:49
ali1234	villager: no it goes back to 0 automatically according to datasheet	21:49
RST38h	jX: Tiny sales compared to other players	21:50
moo-_-	RST38h: it is not about touch screen, but the generic concept what people want. Nokia was all about features features features and S60 menus were getting horrible phone after phone.	21:50
RST38h	jX: Lots of complaints about performance	21:50
jX	yeah, but saying it's dead is silly	21:50
RST38h	jX: This is as good as dead	21:50
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RST38h	zombified, ok	21:50
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Sir_Lancelot	jX you have to learn to flter what RST38h says... ehehehe	21:50
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villager	ali1234: didn't appear to in the dump though	21:50
moo-_-	looking back to that.... N900 doesn't have that many features :D	21:50
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ali1234	villager: right, and 0x40 is definitely right	21:51
villager	ali1234: ok, should I try 2?	21:51
jX	Sir_Lancelot: There seem to be a number of people here in need of filters. ;)	21:51
ali1234	villager: looks like your accelerometer has actually crashed :/	21:51
RST38h	moo: Nokia does not target what people want	21:51
KamuiWrk	SpeedEvil, noooo! mine shows 113 as the powerlevel, people were saying raising it to 118 removed static in the car, does this not sound accurate? I suppose the best proof for me would be to actually try it	21:51
Sir_Lancelot	jX , right ;)	21:51
Arkenoi	and it is religion - people are willing to ajust their habits because they faithfully believe that apple knows better what they need than themselves. looks like it is true. apple is not for people capable of determining their own needs either.	21:51
moo-_-	RST38h: well they are doing consumer business?	21:51
KamuiWrk	I mean, Im not trying to run a pirate radio station :)	21:51
RST38h	moo: It targets whatever its highly paid business / market analysts say people want	21:51
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Sir_Lancelot	just because Maemo is wonderfull, why can't it be beautifull as well? :d	21:52
ali1234	villager: wait a minute	21:52
ali1234	it's turned off	21:52
SpeedEvil	KamuiWrk: I'm not saying it can't work - just that the difference	21:52
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SpeedEvil	I found with my radio was very small.	21:52
RevdKathy	KamuiWrk - do it - run MaemoFM from your n900 and do phone in chats!	21:52
* Arkenoi wants to override most annoying radio stations, shame the transmitter is not strong enough		21:52
ali1234	villager: ./i2cset 0x1d 0x20 0x40	21:52
RST38h	moo: Once you let those make decisions, things generally continue going in the same direction where they started to go years ago	21:52
RST38h	moo: For S60 it was "more features"	21:52
SpeedEvil	KamuiWrk: and hte output power at highest is regrettably small	21:52
moo-_-	RST38h: ack. I agree.	21:53
ali1234	villager: actually 0x47	21:53
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RST38h	moo: Making a non-standard decision may get you fired but making the same decision as the last year is ok	21:53
villager	ali1234: http://pastebin.com/m2d82dd2d	21:53
moo-_-	RST38h: there is very much truth in that	21:54
RST38h	moo: and there is no jackass at the top who would say "ah, screw it all"	21:54
ali1234	villager: see the different values at 0x10 - 0x1f now?	21:54
Arkenoi	rst38h: that's the problem of mobile industry: no one has the balls	21:54
Sir_Lancelot	having the palm pre on N900...would be like having the Megan Fox in your bed, and a pair of nuts with 10 Lt of milk	21:54
villager	ali1234: yep	21:54
ali1234	villager: also 0x21 went back to 0	21:54
RST38h	Arkenoi: not just mobile	21:54
ali1234	villager: ok so now try reloading the module	21:54
moo-_-	RST38h: well... jackass is a synonym for leadership :)	21:54
RST38h	Arkenoi: industry as a whole	21:54
ali1234	villager: see if it works ok now	21:54
RST38h	ok, corporate industry	21:54
moo-_-	Sir_Lancelot: which one is Megan Gox?	21:55
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Arkenoi	the term "iphone killer" is itself a sign of terminal loser	21:55
Sir_Lancelot	upsss	21:55
* lardman sees the snowcast for SW England		21:55
Sir_Lancelot	Fox	21:55
Sir_Lancelot	:P	21:55
villager	ali1234: looks good	21:55
moo-_-	Arkenoi: in Nexus One launch even they specifically avoided the term	21:55
Arkenoi	not having the balls to make the obvious thing the first place and then chasing the leader	21:55
ali1234	villager: ok, so this is probably a bug in the module then	21:55
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ali1234	villager: in any case, a "reallyreset" option can be added	21:55
ali1234	villager: through sys	21:55
moo-_-	Arkenoi: no one kills anyone in corporate business... they all do suicide.	21:55
RST38h	ok, sleep for me.	21:55
villager	ali1234: dunno, could be some other linux module doing something wrong to the i2c bus, not necessarily the lis302dl, or?	21:56
ali1234	villager: it could, yes	21:56
villager	ali1234: but yeah, a boot option would be great	21:56
RST38h	moo: actually they do not suicide	21:56
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ali1234	villager: it would have to be a module though, since the driver locks that device from userspace access	21:56
ali1234	villager: that's why i asked you to unlaod it	21:56
RST38h	moo: They get their severance packages and go marinate in sunshine somewhere	21:56
RST38h	moo: Their former employees do suicide every now and then, although homocide seems to be more common among them nowadays	21:57
TomaszD	nice, organizing the menu will come in PR1.2 hopefully	21:57
RST38h	<sleep>	21:57
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TomaszD	:)	21:57
SpeedEvil	ali1234: are these tools in any downloadable form?	21:57
Arkenoi	as i stated before, religious beliefs are important. imagine HTC made a phone with no bluetooth, no cut&paste, imbecile email client and non-removable battery 3 years ago. people would laugh at it!	21:57
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Arkenoi	but apple fanboys are believers	21:58
ali1234	SpeedEvil: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/	21:58
villager	ali1234: well, hope it'll be fixed in some future update, anyway	21:58
SpeedEvil	rhanka~	21:58
Arkenoi	cultists even	21:58
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ali1234	i guess i should make a package, i do have a repo after all	21:59
tigert	wow	22:00
woglinde	Arkenoi he they fixed cut and paste	22:00
tigert	gtranslate app	22:00
tigert	rocks!	22:00
tigert	neat	22:00
woglinde	after 2 years	22:01
jebba	tigert: does gtranslate use web? (i'm assuming that's google=	22:01
tigert	yes	22:01
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woglinde	jebba burgerspace has now 9 thumbs up	22:01
jebba	nice thx :)	22:02
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jebba	woglinde: surely you did extensive testing and debugging too, right?!! ;)	22:02
jebba	dont want you to be chased by fried chicked or anything	22:02
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ali1234	haha i used to have this game on C64	22:04
ali1234	except it was called "mr wimpy"	22:04
FIQ	ok	22:05
FIQ	so, guys	22:05
FIQ	when you answered my question before, my battery runned out	22:05
FIQ	so i didn't really managed to see the answer	22:05
FIQ	so i ask again	22:05
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FIQ	how long would the battery last if you use Xchat, microB and some random msn application running?	22:06
tigert	maybe the N900 answered to you? :)	22:06
FIQ	oh	22:07
FIQ	it would sure do...	22:07
FIQ	if i had one	22:07
frals	depends on how much you use each activity and quality of net connection id say	22:07
FIQ	:)	22:07
tigert	ah	22:07
FIQ	frals, ok, then i will test for myself. :p	22:07
FIQ	it's not really a problem (i'm used to take my charger with me all the day, my current phone last after 2 hours using), but could be nice to know	22:08
KamuiWrk	is 1000 blocks 1K or 1M	22:08
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KamuiWrk	1024	22:09
KamuiWrk	or not even related	22:09
jebba	can i karma whore one more stinking vote for this app so i can forget about it? thx :) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/burgerspace/1.8.3-18/	22:09
BaTmAn	I think karma should come round without you asking for it ;)	22:10
BaTmAn	but hey	22:11
BaTmAn	10/10	22:11
BaTmAn	well done	22:11
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FIQ	i lost. :3	22:12
Pudding-n900	is it wotrth downloading it?	22:12
Pudding-n900	*worth	22:12
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hrw	heh...	22:19
hrw	PR 1.1 is not released for people and nokians respond with 'will be fixed in pr 1.2'	22:19
woglinde	hrw lol	22:19
pwnguin	PR?	22:20
* hrw wants maemo5 lenny edition		22:20
villager	well, it's released to beta testers though I think	22:20
pwnguin	pre-release?	22:20
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hrw	pwnguin: name it like you want	22:20
woglinde	hrw hm yes and we want debhelper 7 with override support	22:21
woglinde	lenny has only debhelper7 without it	22:21
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hrw	woglinde: once switched to lenny backports will be easier. but from my rumours maemo11 will be first release based on Lenny	22:22
frals	hrw: what bug is that?	22:22
hrw	frals: something with hildontouchscroller	22:22
hrw	I just removed that mail	22:22
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hrw	bug #5496	22:23
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5496 HildonTouchSelector: No hint that there are more items	22:23
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GAN900	Hoo boy, I can only imagine the flames my full inbox is full of.	22:24
Bolle_mobile	hi	22:25
hrw	woglinde: the fun is that to get more sane devs nokia should do such updates. but they are frozen by sbox with obsolete software (and looks like no one got idea to pay for improving it). effect is that instead of getting stuff from Debian in easy way we need to hack	22:26
hrw	but thats maemo way and did not changed since os2005	22:26
hrw	except they learnt that software update does not need to equal total reflash. took them 3 years...	22:26
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Bolle_mobile	sbox really sucks :)	22:27
ali1234	sbox only exists because of the autotools mess	22:27
woglinde	ali what?	22:28
hrw	ali1234: really? there are build systems which takes that mess from you	22:28
ali1234	hrw: indeed	22:28
woglinde	ali you can use autotools the right or the wrong way	22:28
hrw	ali1234: I am building whole embedded distributions for last few years and nearly did not touched autotools at that time	22:28
woglinde	it depends on you	22:28
ali1234	sbox only exists because autotools relies on configure being run in the target environment	22:28
woglinde	when you are lazy as developer	22:28
woglinde	you will mess it up	22:29
hrw	ali1234: orly?	22:29
ali1234	hrw: yes, really, that is the whole reason for scratchbox to exist	22:29
woglinde	ali please look at openembedded	22:29
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ali1234	if it wasn't for that, we could just cross compile everything like normal	22:29
woglinde	hrw and I working with and on it	22:29
villager	ali1234: autotools has no such requirement, you're supposed to run configure on the host environment	22:29
ali1234	woglinde: openembedded is a collection of patches for broken autotools scripts	22:29
villager	ali1234: the only issue is when people don't know how to use autotools properly	22:30
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jon1012	hi all	22:30
woglinde	broken cmake bjam and scons too	22:30
woglinde	g	22:30
hrw	ali1234: not only autotools... we cover (nearly) every build system tools now	22:30
ali1234	villager: which is like 99.99% of people who use autotools, because it's huge and impossible to understand	22:30
jon1012	someone knows why, when I'm on 3g, neither mail nor google talk / skype or anything work beside the web browser ?	22:30
woglinde	ali????	22:30
hrw	cmake, scons, distutils, autotools, qmake, perl crap etc etc etc	22:30
jon1012	when I'm on wifi everything works	22:30
hrw	jon1012: works for me	22:31
ali1234	woglinde: yes, you heard me	22:31
woglinde	ali 2 days and you are fine with autotools	22:31
ali1234	woglinde: which version?	22:31
woglinde	but I had this discussion often	22:31
Bolle_mobile	can i get rid of busybox by liking /bin/sh to bash? sudo gainroot always gives me busybox...	22:31
jon1012	whenever I connect using data connection (edge/ 3g) only web works	22:31
SpeedEvil	jon1012: some providers filter crap	22:31
woglinde	I think 4 times here	22:31
jon1012	SpeedEvil: I can't even use imap :(	22:31
jon1012	bwah	22:31
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ali1234	Bolle_mobile: i wouldn't recommend it, all kinds of bad stuff could happen	22:32
jon1012	and I thought it for one year to get the n900 :(	22:32
woglinde	ali with autotools when used right, I will know it will crosscompile for most arches I use	22:32
jon1012	took not thought	22:32
ali1234	woglinde: when used right, yes	22:32
woglinde	ali using autotools right isnt that hard	22:32
ali1234	but that almost never happens	22:32
woglinde	2 days	22:32
hrw	Bolle_mobile: chsh from root account	22:32
woglinde	believe me	22:32
Bolle_mobile	yeah... i expected wired things :)	22:32
ali1234	woglinde: can you get python developers to fix their build system then please?	22:32
* Arkenoi tried to tune adblock+ settings, no luck - i cannot add any filters, the ui is non-responsive there.		22:33
Bolle_mobile	bash is aleady my root shell	22:33
hrw	Arkenoi: same here	22:33
hrw	Bolle_mobile: apt-get install rootsh and use 'root' instead of 'sudo gainroot'?	22:33
woglinde	ali unfornatly I dont get payed to fix all the crappy stuff	22:33
timeless_mbp	andre__: i can't	22:33
Bolle_mobile	ssh root@localhost works fine	22:33
timeless_mbp	bugzilla's closed for the holidays :)	22:33
Bolle_mobile	ah thanks hrw	22:34
andre__	timeless_mbp, and you cannot wait two days? means you should learn some self-organization ;-)	22:34
timeless_mbp	i have other problems	22:34
hrw	ali1234: in OE we do build of native python to build target python	22:34
woglinde	ali and I have to write more code on myself when I am using cmake	22:34
andre__	timeless_mbp, up to you. I won't look at them	22:34
timeless_mbp	but yes, my self-org sucks	22:34
andre__	no time	22:34
timeless_mbp	yeah, don't worry	22:34
ali1234	woglinde: well my original point stands, sbox exists because nobody knows how to use autotools properly, because it's too complicated and the docs are horrible	22:34
timeless_mbp	i'll ensure someone collects them	22:34
woglinde	ali no	22:35
woglinde	even with scratchbox the messy autotools using will be better	22:35
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woglinde	ali but you didnt provide a solution on your own	22:35
woglinde	bashing is one thing to make it better another	22:36
Bolle_mobile	root works fine... didn't know that	22:36
villager	woglinde: he's defending scratchbox as the solution, that's his point...	22:37
woglinde	villager hm I didnt get this interpretation	22:37
KamuiWrk	wow	22:38
KamuiWrk	I am freeing up nothing	22:38
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villager	woglinde: he says scratchbox is needed because people can't use autotools properly so it's impossible to crosscompile autotools-using stuff without scratchbox	22:39
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villager	or other virtual environments I suppose	22:39
KamuiWrk	:)	22:39
jebba	BaTmAn: thx! :)	22:40
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ali12341	i'm not defending scratchbox	22:43
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jebba	ali1234: pretty much all distros use some kind of scratchbox to build	22:43
ali12341	i'm merely pointing out that if somebody made a build system that could actually handle cross compiling gracefully, then scratchbox would not be needed	22:43
felipec	it's possible to cross-compile autotools stuff without scratchbox	22:44
jebba	though maybe not as crufty as maemo sb ;)	22:44
felipec	it's just horrendously difficult	22:44
ali12341	felipec: except when it isn't	22:44
felipec	ali12341: OE does it, for example, and Fedora, AFAIK	22:44
kulve	and some specific components are designed to be easily cross compilable	22:45
jebba	BaTmAn: or maybe not, still says 9/10	22:45
jebba	felipe, ya fedora uses "mock" which is quite nice.	22:45
wazd_e63	Screw T9 dictionary - hello qwerty magic	22:45
ali12341	gentoo has that whole crossdev thing	22:46
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ali12341	and a huge collection of patches against broken autotools + other build scripts	22:46
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Bolle_mobile	@jebba thanks for your wiki page.. :)	22:49
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slonopotamus	jebba, you don't need scratchbox. you need crosscompiler and/or qemu or build natively	22:50
swc\|666	yea jebba 's wiki page kicks chuck norris' ass	22:50
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jebba	Bolle_mobile: no prob :)	22:51
jebba	slonopotamus: ya, i know. But if you want to build hundreds of packages sanely, you use some sort of scratchbox/chroot/whateveryouwanttocallit	22:51
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Bolle_mobile	hehe and chuck norris has an n900 :D	22:53
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jebba	BaTmAn: your voted didn't count. Must be diebold running the thing ;)	22:55
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MaemohammadAG	repos down?	22:56
slonopotamus	jebba, in gentoo, you just use package manager :)	22:56
jebba	slonopotamus: ah, i've done gentoo, but not crosscompiling.	22:57
MaemohammadAG	97% [Waiting for headers]	22:57
ali1234	jebba: under gentoo it isn't much more complicated than ROOT=/foo ARCH=whatever emerge ...	22:57
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jebba	MaemohammadAG: outages get filed here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5818 they probably will want to know what IP you're coming from (ah, and your DNS resolver. Just thought of that, but it'll be usefull)	22:58
povbot`	Bug 5818: We need servers	22:58
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loufoque_	is there an android environment for maemo, in order to run android applications?	22:58
jebba	ali1234: and what does that produce in the end?	22:58
simoneb_	i am unable to remove or reinstall some packages because they fail with this error: Could not find platform independent libraries <prefix>, Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>, Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>] (etc.etc.) I think that setting $PYTHONHOME may fix them, what should i set it to?	22:59
slonopotamus	ali1234, nowadays it is even simpler thanks to crossdev-wrappers that create proper wrapper script with all variables needed for emerge	22:59
ali1234	jebba: it produces a chroot for your arch in /foo	22:59
jebba	i thought that just installed on gentoo, but that's all i've ever done with it. Never made gentoo pacakges.	22:59
jebba	ah, ya, well a chroot is basically a sandbox.	22:59
jebba	or a sandbox is a glorified chroot more like	22:59
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ali1234	jebba: the chroot is your final root fs. or you can say --buildpackage	23:00
leon-	argh.. why in the hell does the foreca widget open the browser.. how crappy is that :)	23:00
ali1234	essentially, emerge can already cross compile stuff just by setting some variables, then it works exactly the same as compiling native	23:00
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jebba	dah burgers in extras! (well, next cron run i assume)	23:03
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GAN900	vdv	23:11
GAN900	VDVsx, ping?	23:11
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wirelessdreamer	anyone know here if master and monitor mode can be enabled on the n900's wireless card?	23:27
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woglinde	wirelessdreamer I will try qucik build iw	23:29
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wirelessdreamer	woglinde: I tried iwconfig wlan0 mode monitor/master after sudo gainroot with no luck	23:31
wirelessdreamer	was wondering if there is a modified kernel module that'll enable it	23:31
wirelessdreamer	I haven't looked into chipset support yet	23:31
jebba	wirelessdreamer: just a bug closed as WONTFIX about that today since it's something to do with iwconfig, not specific to n900	23:33
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wirelessdreamer	jebba: does the chipset support it?	23:33
woglinde	yeah thats why I will try iw	23:33
wirelessdreamer	maybe can be set with iwpriv	23:33
VDVsx	GAN900, pong	23:35
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mkargar	hello \| how to install android 2.1 on n900?	23:35
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jebba	wirelessdreamer: dont know off hand	23:37
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wirelessdreamer	jebba: thanks	23:39
jebba	wirelessdreamer: there's also a thread on talk.maemo.org . Search for wifi hotspot	23:39
jebba	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350	23:39
povbot`	Bug 6350: getbootstate bricks the device after 17 reboots if there are no normal boots in between them	23:39
jebba	wirelessdreamer: sry, bad paste: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30916&goto=newpost	23:40
N900evil	mk8, you do not.	23:40
mkargar	hello \| how to install android 2.1 on n900?	23:40
N900evil	you can't	23:40
jebba	mkargar: i dont think anyone has.	23:40
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greenfly	mkargar: you don't/can't	23:40
woglinde	mkargar wrong channel	23:40
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greenfly	not that I'd see much of a point of having android anyway, unless there's some special java app you need	23:41
mkargar	greenfly:it possible in future?	23:42
simoneb_	i can't uninstall or reinstall or have it to work telepathy-butterfly ... it appears that a long list of dependencies are half-configured and in the same state, how can i recover them?	23:42
greenfly	if you are a developer the development options are better under maemo, and if you are a Linuxy guy, the Linux environment is actually real and you don't have to jailbreak anything	23:42
greenfly	mkargar: probably not, you will probably have to purchase a device google supports	23:42
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woglinde	hui libnl builds	23:43
greenfly	mkargar: for instance, the droid has similar hardware specs to the n900 and runs android	23:43
greenfly	at least, I'd say that's the most comparable device out there, hardware-wise	23:43
woglinde	hms	23:44
woglinde	iw is at dephelper 7	23:44
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jebba	greenfly: well, you don't have to jailbreak anything, but even if you get it to install you can't charge your battery and such...	23:44
greenfly	jebba: you might have misunderstood me	23:45
mkargar	greenfly:are you mean motorola droid?	23:45
greenfly	jebba: what I'm saying is that under maemo you don't have to jailbreak anything to get access to the Linux underneath	23:45
greenfly	mkargar: yes	23:45
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mkargar	greenfly:but,it is only for germany!	23:46
valdyn	mkargar: what is only for germany?	23:46
greenfly	mkargar: if a hardware keyboard is important to you, and you want similar specs, then you might have to wait for another phone	23:46
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greenfly	mkargar: it is very unlikely that android will be ported to the n900 any time soon	23:47
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ali1234	sounds like a challenge	23:48
Stskeeps	why unlikely? :P	23:49
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Stskeeps	i mean, there were people insane enough to do it for n8x0.	23:49
mkargar	valdyn:my mean it released only in germany country?ok?	23:49
greenfly	Stskeeps: key phrase is "any time soon"	23:50
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greenfly	Stskeeps: I can see someone doing it, say, in a few years when the shine has warn off their n900 and they want to test things	23:50
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VDVsx	Jaffa, wow, you win @ X-terminal icon, lolol	23:50
greenfly	but I think most people that are clever like that are either working for android or working for maemo, and likely not for both	23:50
greenfly	but hey, stranger things have happened	23:51
greenfly	I'm sure it's possible	23:51
ali1234	i don't really see any evidence of that	23:51
wazd_e63	who is insane enough to want android on n900	23:51
ali1234	i think most of the people who would do it probably have about 10 phones already	23:51
wazd_e63	Call the nurse	23:51
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greenfly	I just don't know why someone would want a castrated linux on their n900	23:51
valdyn	mkargar: i dont get it, phones release late in germany, not "only in germany"	23:52
greenfly	when they can have the real thing	23:52
jon1012	greenfly: to get more apps ?	23:53
wazd_e63	sheesh	23:53
greenfly	jon1012: 90% of which just replicate the functionality in a website that their web browser can't manage?	23:54
* VDVsx boots android in wazd's e63		23:54
wazd_e63	vdvsx, eeew)	23:54
jon1012	greenfly: websites that need to have super good eyes to see ? (or if they want to pan around during 2 minutes using zoom)	23:55
ali1234	yeah, those apps make using websites a lot easier on mobiles	23:55
mkargar	greenfly:ok!ok!what id differents in n900 and android phone hardware's that i can't install android on it?	23:55
jon1012	greenfly: I love maemo, but you have to give that to android, there are a lot of apps on that :)	23:55
greenfly	jon1012: if we are going by that then we should all be using iPhones	23:55
wazd_e63	jon1012, what exactly apps?	23:55
ali1234	greenfly: not all, just most	23:56
greenfly	having 100x more fart apps doesn't make it a compelling platform to me	23:56
jon1012	I had an iphone before my n900, and I love my n900, it's not the point	23:56
mkargar	greenfly:what is...	23:56
greenfly	being restricted to programming only in a proprietary version of java doesn't help either	23:56
jon1012	point it, n900 lacks websites done for it, or a lot of apps... but that will come with time	23:56
jon1012	point is*	23:56
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greenfly	having a castrated Linux userspace that you have to hack to get access to doesn't attract me either	23:56
wazd_e63	change the fucking user agent	23:57
greenfly	it's only "open" if you are comparing it to an iPhone	23:57
valdyn	jon1012: "lacks websites done for it" ?	23:57
greenfly	but you still have to jailbreak both to have any real fun	23:57
valdyn	jon1012: that totally defeats the purpose	23:57
jon1012	wazd_e63: yeah... websites done for a normal screen can't work correctly on a screen with such high dpi !	23:57
ali1234	what i want to know is why should everyone want the same thing?	23:58
jon1012	oops, valdyn not wazd_e63 :)	23:58
ali1234	i mean, different people might want different things from their phone, did you consider that?	23:58
greenfly	ali1234: I'm in the maemo channel	23:58
valdyn	jon1012: i still dont get it	23:58
greenfly	ali1234: not in the android or iPhone or general cellphone os channel	23:58
valdyn	( and i wish i had higher dpi )	23:58
greenfly	so I'm talking about why I like maemo as a platform over the rest	23:58
jon1012	valdyn: if I go to normal websites, I have to zoom (or put my eyes very near to the screen)	23:58
ali1234	greenfly: no, you're slating all the others and causing an argument	23:59
valdyn	jon1012: different dpi does not change that	23:59
jon1012	valdyn: iphone optimised sites on iphone are easily readable...	23:59
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greenfly	ali1234: I'm talking about why I don't like the others in the context of why I think maemo is superior	23:59
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jon1012	ok not dpi but "higher resoluton on a lesser physical space"	23:59
greenfly	ali1234: you know, it's /OK/ for people to have a difference of opinion	23:59
wazd_e63	jon1012, change browser's agent to the aifone	23:59
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wazd_e63	And be happy	23:59

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