IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-01-05

Sir_Lancelothave you tired?00:00
blubbiMohammadAG: I aam not into the Social-Networking stuff, don't even have a Facebook account :)00:00
Sir_Lancelottired00:00
Sir_Lancelothave you tried it, Laiska ?00:00
MohammadAGI only use it for communication blubbi, cause as I said, my friends on it don't use MSN/yahoo/ICQ etc...00:01
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blubbiBut I like it if everbody fills out the stuff in skype (saves time adding birthday, location etc :-) 900:01
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blubbiMohammadAG: ah, I see :-)00:02
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pupnikbrowser does not copy text00:03
MohammadAG<blubbi> But I like it if everbody fills out the stuff in skype (saves time adding birthday, location etc :-) 900:03
pupniki find no bugreport00:03
MohammadAGI use Hermes00:03
MohammadAGan advantage for social networking :)00:03
pupnikgo to page00:03
pupnikselect text select arrow00:04
Sir_LancelotLaiska I've put all inside the same folder, but it messed with my widgets00:04
pupnikcursor flashes a lot00:04
pupnikfails to hilight00:04
pupniksecond try00:05
pupnikselect text arrow and hilight within one half seconf00:05
ifreqMohammadAG: yeah hermes is nice :)00:05
pupniktext gets selected but no copy appears in menu00:05
blubbihrrhrr, actually we both make use of the stupidity of others to get the contacts form filled out automatically :-) (Considering this, I might create a facebook account to get he missing information :-) )00:05
pupnikthird try:00:05
ifreqblubbi: yeah and pics too from facebook :)00:06
pupniktext selection dissapears00:06
blubbiifreq: full ack00:06
pupnikfourth try:00:06
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MohammadAGblubbi, you could then deactivate the account :p00:06
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pupnikhilight works, copy menu option fails to appear00:07
blubbiifreq: better than taking a photo for every contact :-)00:07
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pupnikfifth try:00:07
blubbiMohammadAG: right :-)00:07
pupnikhilight works, copy menu option fails to appear00:07
MohammadAG<blubbi> ifreq: better than taking a photo for every contact :-) <-- tried it once, it's a bit awkward "I want a photo of you for my contacts list"00:07
pupniksixth try:00:07
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MohammadAGit was*00:08
Sir_Lancelotwhere are all .desktop files sotred inside N900?00:08
Sir_Lancelot:S00:08
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pupniktext selection works, copy option appears in menu, paste to terminal pastes oold copy buffer from terminal00:08
MohammadAGSir_Lancelot, find *.desktop I think00:08
blubbiMohammadAG:  right again :-)00:09
pupnikseventh try: different page00:09
pupnikmaemo.org loaded00:10
pupnikhttp://maemo.3ion.at/mymenu-0.4.2.20100104_armel.deb00:10
blubbiBy the way, reflashing under Linux (I am using Gentoo Lionux) )  is there a a good sollution? Or should I reboot to Windows?00:11
blubbiDamn my connection is so laggy right now... takes minutes to type a sentence in irssi00:11
MohammadAGblubbi, use flasher-3.500:11
pupniktext hilight works.  copy menu item appears (this time in a short list of options, why?   why not all the selections i had before?  copy button pressed.  paste to terminal still gives old copy buffer00:12
blubbiMohammadAG: okay, thanks00:12
pupnikeighth try: maemo.org homepage00:12
MohammadAGblubbi, you have to install it from the .tar pkg00:12
MohammadAGblubbi, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php00:13
JaffaSir_Lancelot: /usr/share/applications/hildon IIRC00:13
pupnikhilight works, browser menu shows no "copy" option. reclick on menu brings up copy option00:13
MohammadAGthen download this: maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz Maemo Flasher-3.5 Tool for Fremantle and Diablo, installation package for other than Debian based Linuxes (x86, 32-bit)00:14
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pupnik"Weather Forecast on Nokia N900. Ultra-customisable weather widget for showing forecast the way you want."00:14
MohammadAGpupnik, I want it in 3D :p00:14
pupnikcopy/paste works on EIGHTH attempt00:14
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pupnikend rant00:14
woglindepupnik lol00:14
timelessuse ctrl-c00:14
timelessend sage advice00:15
pupniksame problem00:15
pupnikdoes not work00:15
timelesseh?00:15
MohammadAGpupnik, which app?00:15
pupnikshall i youtube00:15
timelessis that noted in the bug?00:15
pupnikdefault browser00:15
blubbiMohammadAG: thanks a a lot!00:15
pupniki am not supposed to file bug reports with proto00:15
MohammadAGweird, it always works00:15
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MohammadAGblubbi, np, have that page bookmarked lol00:16
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Sir_LancelotJaffa ???? what do you mean?00:16
blubbiMohammadAG: already done :-)00:17
MohammadAGSir_Lancelot, the .desktop files are there00:17
MohammadAGin /usr/share/applications/hildon00:17
pupnikok after next reflash ill test seriously00:18
MohammadAGtype cd /usr/share/applications/hildon and then ls to see the files in terminal00:18
Sir_LancelotI see it00:18
Sir_Lancelot:D00:18
Sir_Lancelotwhy didn't the "find" command found the files ??00:18
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blubbiMohammadAG: I didn't check for flasher when installing the SDK (running scratchbox on Gentoo) but it is apparently on the same site :-)00:18
pupnikshow find command00:19
MohammadAGreally don't know, it seems that it shows files in the directory you're in00:19
JaffaSir_Lancelot: Because you didn't start from / in your find command?00:19
MohammadAGyou downloaded the images blubbi ?00:19
Sir_LancelotI did00:19
Sir_LancelotI was at /00:19
timelessi'm walking home in snow00:19
Sir_Lancelotwhen I wrote00:19
Sir_Lancelotfind *.desktop00:20
Sir_Lancelotbut no results came out00:20
MohammadAGno I mean it only searches the directory w/o subdirectories00:20
Sir_Lancelotyes, I was answering to Jaffa00:20
JaffaSir_Lancelot: The syntax would be: find / -name '*.desktop'.00:20
MohammadAGoh00:20
pupnik./.sounds/Ringtones/Gradient.aac00:20
JaffaSir_Lancelot: Or, if you are in /, find . -name '*.desktop' would work as well00:21
pupnikoh sorry that was interpreted by irssi00:21
pupnik /MyDocs# find . -name \*ent*00:21
pupnik./.sounds/Ringtones/Gradient.aac00:21
MohammadAGoh I missed the -name parameter00:22
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blubbiMohammadAG: That was the first try, but then I gave scratchbox a trytry on gentoo linux and it worked00:22
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MohammadAGoh I see00:23
MohammadAGblubbi, have you ever upgraded the SDK?00:23
pupnikvery useful command.  also grep -ri $mystring $path to search for text in a whole subtree00:23
MohammadAGthe new SDK doesn't have the Clear device option in Settings, and it's not on the N900 PR firmware00:24
Sir_Lanceloteven with -name parameter00:24
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Sir_Lancelotit only returns the only result00:24
Sir_Lancelotwhich isn't inside the hildon folder00:24
Sir_Lancelotehehehe00:24
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blubbiMohammadAG: I installed it a week ago... then I left for holliday so I never worked with it00:24
pupnikfind will not see files hidden to user00:25
blubbiI installe dit on my PC at work00:25
MohammadAGSir_Lancelot, did you include the ' and the wildcard?00:25
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MohammadAGoh then it's the new one blubbi00:25
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MohammadAGthe old one had a Clear Device option00:25
MohammadAGand the App manager was in the main menu outside of "More"00:26
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Sir_LancelotI wrote00:27
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blubbiMohammadAG: okay, I see, . I still have to dig into this whole SDK scratchbox thing...00:27
Sir_Lancelotfind . -name '*.desktop'00:27
MohammadAGwhat's the . for?00:27
MohammadAGthe first one00:27
MohammadAGjust do00:28
MohammadAGfind -name '*.desktop'00:28
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MohammadAGin / of course00:28
blubbiMohammadAG: creating packages for gentoo (ebuilds) is way easier00:28
MohammadAGnever tried Gentoo00:29
MohammadAGonly tried OSs that use RPM and APT00:29
blubbiit's lovely00:29
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MohammadAGblubbi, ever tried Debian?00:29
arachnistblubbi: and time consuming on just about every arm device00:29
arachnistblubbi: i have gentoo on my openrd-client, which has 1.2GHz cpu and 512MB of ram00:30
timelesswow, someone was leaving my nuilding as i arrived00:30
yuizyis it easy to mod "Camkeyd" to go to desktop instead of dashboard?00:30
blubbiMohammadAG: I did, but diliked the Distribution upgrades, Gentoo has roling updates, theer is nothing like Gentoo 2.1 or similar to Debian and others.00:31
blubbiarachnist: just copy the OS from the device to a fast Desktop, chroot into it and comile on an fast amachine00:32
arachnistblubbi: yeah, right00:32
arachnistblubbi: and run qemu binary translation, which is painfully slow00:32
Sir_LancelotLOOLllll...Permission Denied00:32
arachnistblubbi: or do you have a fast desktop computer powered by an arm chip?00:33
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blubbiSry, gusy, my connection is so bad... I have to leave or I get cracy..... see you soon!00:33
blubbiarachnist: No I don't (I have a Core i7 Desktop)00:34
blubbi#00:34
user__654i have an arm cortex00:34
kamuime too00:34
* Arkenoi now thinks it might be more useful to map camera key to older tablets "fullscreen" key00:34
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kamuiyou don't like camkeyd's current function?00:35
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Arkenoimany applications just do not have fullscreen support because there is no key to activate it00:35
Arkenoirss reader, etc00:35
kamuiI'd be happier if we could remap a full press and half press to be different00:35
kamuihalf press = dashboard, full press = desktop00:35
Arkenoikamui: i like it, but i'd like to have a choice ;-)00:35
v2pxslowwww repos :(00:35
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kamuiArkenoi, I feel you, choice is always good00:35
user__654half \ full press!! brill00:36
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dockane_is it only me who thinks the n800 was build much better.. just compared it with the n900 and thought how well build the n800 is compared to te n90000:36
kamuiwell00:36
kamuithe N800 was pretty much a solid piece of plastic00:37
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kamuithe N900 doesn't have any quality issues, feels quite sturdy00:37
* v2px acks00:38
kamuithe slider especially feels a lot better than many other nokia phones, and most sliders in general00:38
SpeedEvilArkenoi: yeah00:38
kamuidockane_, tell me exactly what you dont like about the N900's build quality00:38
Gadgetoid_mbpkamui: the stand is one big quality issue00:38
SpeedEvilArkenoi: The current function with the shutter closed of 'tell userto open the shutter' is a bit pointles.00:38
kamuiwell, the stand is definately the weakest link00:38
dockane_wouldnt say so, too. its just like.. metalcover, cursorpad: something more handy if it comes to "rough usage"00:38
kamuibut I don't think that should send the phone down the bad quality build lane00:39
Gadgetoid_mbpthe N810 stand, apart from being wtfawesome, feels like a freakin' roll bar00:39
dockane_Gadgetoid_mbp: yeah.. the stand is crap00:39
Gadgetoid_mbpOh and the battery cover00:39
Gadgetoid_mbpIn general is just a nuisance and seems destined to break00:39
Gadgetoid_mbpBut, that said, the N810 battery cover is horrible00:39
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* Arkenoi liked e90 very much. more solid metal, sexy clank when it fixes itself open00:40
Gadgetoid_mbpIt's an exercise in serious overengineering, so the N900 is a big step forward in that case00:40
shinkamuiI never had the pleasure of owning an N81000:40
TTilusi had the feeling i was gonna fsck up something when taking off the battery cover00:40
shinkamuibut the N800 I had was pretty nice and felt real durable00:40
shinkamuiI get the same feeling with the N90000:40
shinkamuilike it could take anything short of a long drop onto concrete00:40
Gadgetoid_mbpThere's not much give anywhere on the N900, it's definitely robust00:41
Gadgetoid_mbpAnd the screen, of course, is not glass00:41
SpeedEvilyes it is.00:41
Gadgetoid_mbpWell not the top surface00:41
SpeedEvilThe front surface of the screen is noit glass.00:41
SpeedEvil:)00:41
dockane_i am very happy to own the n800. pretty sure there will be always some usage for it. i currently use it as (vnc) remote controll for my media center00:41
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Gadgetoid_mbpSo that probably affords it ever so slightly more protection than the likes of an iPhone00:42
Arkenoithe plastic is good enough. many people complain it is easy to scratch, well, it is not, at least not with plastic or your nails00:42
SpeedEvilI do wonder hoe muychg the image would change if you instead of just an air gap betwen screen and digitiser had optical silicone00:42
Gadgetoid_mbpalthough they're now putting stupidly tough deep hardened glass into phones00:42
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Arkenoithough they say they successfully scrathed it with stylus or even cleaning cloth00:42
Arkenoidon't know how they do it00:42
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Gadgetoid_mbpI've neither put a screen protector on mine, nor scratched it00:43
SpeedEvilstylus + leetle bit of grit00:43
Arkenoigadgetoid, me neither00:43
MohammadAGSir_Lancelot, you tried using rootsh?00:44
kamui__wow, I think all this time the problem may have just been the cable I was using00:44
kamui__I just changed cables, lets see if that helps stabilize my net00:44
kamui__jeez, I still have 2 stale clients too00:44
Sir_Lancelotwhat is rootsh?00:44
MohammadAGSir_Lancelot, have u ever used linux before?00:45
Sir_LancelotI advise you, in case you haven't noticed yet...I'm a real noob on this00:45
VDVsx~root00:45
infobotit has been said that root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.00:45
MohammadAGlol ok00:45
Sir_Lanceloti know DOS00:45
kamui__lol00:45
kamui__nice00:45
Gadgetoid_mbpUgh, too much jim beam in my icecream00:45
MohammadAGopen the App Manager00:45
Gadgetoid_mbpfeel ill00:45
kamui__Sir_Lancelot, you know vista or windows 7?00:45
Sir_Lancelotso, the philosofy is not that different00:45
kamui__root is the same as the Administrator account with UAC elevated access00:45
Sir_Lancelotboth kamui_00:45
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kamui__or similar00:45
MohammadAGSir_Lancelot, open App manager and search for rootsh00:45
Sir_Lancelotok00:45
MohammadAGroot is superuser, you need to be one to edit system files00:46
kamui__rootsh is the package that lets you easily gain root on the tablet00:46
kamui__iirc00:46
MohammadAGon linux desktops, you use sudo00:46
MohammadAGon Nokia tablets, rootsh is the easiest way00:46
kamui__well, a smart admin uses sudo when its doable00:46
kamui__my admins love to do shit as root00:46
MohammadAGkamui__, I changed the pass for user but I can't use sudo00:46
kamui__at work, they are complete microsoft admins going on linux noob00:46
MohammadAGit worked before00:46
kamui__I wasn't aware sudo worked on the tablets00:47
MohammadAGit worked on mine before00:47
kamui__I dont think the command is set suid root00:47
kamui__err the binary00:47
v2px60B/s from the maemo repos :S00:47
kamui__but I didn't explore it, I just use gainroot for the few seconds I need root access on the tablet00:47
MohammadAGI don't have privileges to execute binary files00:47
MohammadAGv2px, same here :(00:48
Sir_Lancelotok00:48
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TTilusfremantle osso-xterm does not show utf8 chars when i ssh over to another box and attach to a screen and when i input, the app seems to get "doubly encoded" utf8, plain term seems to be fine00:48
kamui__irony though the maemo website is unusually nice and fast00:48
Sir_Lancelotjust installed rootsh00:48
Sir_Lancelotnow what?00:48
kamui__type root00:48
MohammadAGopen terminal00:48
kamui__or sudo gainroot00:48
MohammadAGtype root00:48
Hexagoontablets-dev is awfully slow too00:48
kamui__use sudo gainroot if you want to gain root access at the same location you're in now00:49
kamui__root by itself will spawn a different shell altogether00:49
Sir_Lancelotok00:49
kamui__I think its ash00:49
Sir_Lancelotand?00:49
kamui__nothing00:49
kamui__if you don't need root, don't use it until you do00:49
kamui__its like doing a runas in windows00:49
Sir_Lancelotahhh00:49
Sir_Lancelotok00:49
Sir_Lancelotgot it00:49
Sir_Lancelot(Y)00:49
kamui__its like runas /user:domain\adminstrator cmd.exe00:50
kamui__ok cool00:50
kamui__now. Im running to the gym, maybe when I come back someone would like to help me package blender and the support libraries for the devel repo00:50
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Sir_Lancelotfdx...mete lá o neuron00:52
Sir_Lancelotupsss.wrong window :P00:52
VDVsxlol00:53
lardmanas a random aside, some of the mount points do not allow binary execution00:53
lardmane.g. /home/user/MyDocs00:54
lardmaniirc00:54
SpeedEvilvfat does not support the users00:54
SpeedEvildoes not syupport userid00:54
Sir_Lancelotso, agin00:54
Sir_Lancelotif I want to move a file from one place to another00:55
SpeedEvilso being able to exec programs on it is usually a security risk00:55
Sir_Lancelotwhat's the syntax I have to use on x-term?00:55
SpeedEvilmv source destination00:55
SpeedEvilIf the filenames or directories have spaces or other chars in, then mv "source" "destination"00:56
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lardman~curse material noise00:58
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, material noise !00:58
Sir_Lancelothummm00:58
VDVsxSir_Lancelot, is almost the same as in other linux distro, you can easily find linux command references in the web00:58
Sir_Lancelotoki-doki00:59
Sir_Lancelot:)00:59
kamui__Sir_Lancelot, you really should read a quick tutorial, binary execution in linux is the same as almost any other os, except the local path is not added to the "PATH" by default00:59
kamui__now im leaving01:00
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SpeedEvilVDVsx: this is clearly why we need manpages01:00
VDVsxSir_Lancelot, for example: phoenix.goucher.edu/~kelliher/f2006/cs245/linux1.pdf01:00
lardmanSpeedEvil: on device?!01:00
VDVsxvery small one, but very handy :)01:00
Sir_Lancelotthank you guys01:01
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Sir_Lancelotyou've been tons usefull01:01
Sir_Lancelotthis is why I'm a bigger fan of N900 every minute01:01
Sir_Lancelotehehehe01:01
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SpeedEvillardman: stick em on mydocs - how big are they - 5M?01:05
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lardmanSpeedEvil: yeah, but reading man pages on the device will be a pita01:07
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lardmanplus the x-term is really only deisnged for those in the know to use01:08
* timeless_mbp returns to the scary world01:08
lardmani.e. those that can Google for the man pages01:08
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ShadowJKmaybe port xman ;D01:08
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lardmantrue01:08
lardmanbut still, google is easier01:08
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* timeless_mbp gets to see finnish news showing the train crash01:12
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timeless_mbpjunaturma ?01:13
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* ShadowJK googles it01:14
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CoreFusion-Does the FM transmitter scan for frequences that are in use when it is started?01:18
lardmanno01:18
CoreFusion-in the n900*01:18
lardmanbut the chipset has the ability to do that01:19
lardmaniirc from the spec sheet01:19
SpeedEvilNo, but it can01:19
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SpeedEvilcan also transmit from 76-108MHz I think01:19
lardmancan or could?01:20
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SpeedEvil?01:20
CoreFusion-Hmm, interesting cos i was trying to use it in a bus to try and transmit to the same freq. that they were listening and it didn't allow me to select it, it always changed the freq. +0.1MHz01:20
lardmanwell atm the code's not written afaik01:20
SpeedEvilyeah01:20
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lardmanCoreFusion-: interesting indeed01:20
ShadowJKwhat freuency?01:20
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lardmantho 0.1Hz is probably still receiving that channel anyway01:21
SpeedEvil.1MHz01:21
lardmanyeah sorry01:21
CoreFusion-ShadowJK: 88.001:21
SpeedEvil.1MHz is not close enough to reliably recieve01:21
SpeedEvilit is close enough to interfere01:21
SpeedEvilit could be that you can't set under 88.101:21
SpeedEviltry it now01:21
CoreFusion-I chose the freq. and then started the transmitter and then the freq. was 88.101:22
MohammadAGfrequency starts at 88.101:22
MohammadAGin Settings01:22
MohammadAGends at 107.901:22
ShadowJK88.1 is the lowest you can set01:22
CoreFusion-ok01:23
CoreFusion-but why?01:23
cehtehbelow 88 is illegal in many european countries, police radio and such operate there01:23
CoreFusion-but 88.0 isn't01:23
MohammadAGcehteh, so it's a hardware limitation?01:23
cehtehi can set mine to 88.0 iirc01:23
ShadowJKand at 88.1, the channel occupies 88.0-88.201:23
cehtehMohammadAG: no i think its in software01:23
MohammadAGoh kk01:24
SpeedEvilregion may affect it01:24
MohammadAGspeaking of FM TX, why aren't **.*5 frequencies supported01:24
MohammadAGSymbian allowed them01:24
MohammadAGlike 88.2501:24
SpeedEvilcehteh: it can go to - I think - 7601:24
SpeedEvilcehteh: for japan01:24
GAN900Mmm . . . 40/5Mbps for only $15 more per month.01:25
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: probably just bad software IIRC the chips pports it.01:25
MohammadAGor 88.2 for that matter01:25
lardmanMohammadAG: does it depend on country? In the UK we only use 10ths of a MHz01:25
SpeedEvillardman: yes01:25
SpeedEvillardman: the channel spacing varies by country01:25
MohammadAGUS device01:25
cehtehbandwidth of the fm channels is bigger than 0.05 mhz anyways01:25
lcuki prefer imperial FM radio measurements01:26
ShadowJKonly 10ths here too. No radio receiver will tune to .0501:26
ifreqany good msn-account plugin available?01:26
lcukShadowJK, technically analog ones do01:26
lardmanMohammadAG: hw is the same, depends on the localisation01:26
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MohammadAGShadowJK, cehteh does it allow 88.201:26
MohammadAGUS FW then01:26
lardmanShadowJK: N800 used to01:26
ifreqgood = signup works, stable and it doesnt try to import msn data into contacst without asking. also it wont remove accounts from msn if you remove em from contact book.. *G*01:26
lcukhey lardman01:26
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MohammadAGmine only allows 0.1/3/5/7/901:26
lardmanhi lcuk01:26
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ShadowJKI found a nice empty bit of spectrum, which is completely silent, just background static all the way to work :D01:28
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lardmanyou've done well there, mine seems to change as I drive, could do with the transmitter constantly looking for clear freqs and then jumping01:28
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lardmanand crossing fingers that the RDS car stereo can follow it!01:29
MohammadAGlardman, so it does jump?01:29
lardmanno01:30
lardmanwell the stereo does, but not the N900 ;)01:31
ShadowJKbut it would be nice if it could01:31
lardmanindeed01:31
lardmananother project to add to the list of things to do....01:31
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MohammadAGwhat's the best MSN plugin?01:31
GAN900lardman, quit your job and lock yourself in the basement already. Sheesh.01:32
lardmanGAN900: Why didn't I think of that!01:32
MohammadAGhad Haze but it threw a lot of Network errors when disconnecting/reconnecting01:32
lardmanah, no basement01:32
MohammadAGlol01:32
MohammadAGLOL01:32
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ShadowJKa cellar is fine too01:34
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b-man17a crawlspace? meh01:34
lardmandon't have one of those either, and if I did I think the contents might take my mind off the coding anyway ;)01:34
lardman^ cellar01:35
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CoreFusion-hmm... anyone happen to know where i might find spare parts for laser printers?01:36
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fnordianslipCoreFusion-: in a laser printer?01:38
CoreFusion-fnordianslip: haha :P The thing is, I got a Samsung CLP-315 as a christmas present, but I would prefer a network printer so i was thinking about getting the network adapter from a CLP-315W and install it on this device... :P01:39
lardmanebay?01:40
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SpeedEvil##hardware?01:40
SpeedEvil(not ##electronics_01:40
fnordianslipi never wanted a printer.  i just wanted a computer everywhere i went :)01:40
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CoreFusion-nothing in ebay..01:43
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ifreqCoreFusion-: your wifi ap does not support usb devices?01:48
ifreqmany do (ie nas boxes and printers)01:48
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ifreqthink it would be more cheaper than separate network adapter for printer01:48
CoreFusion-ifreq: no it doesn't, i don't use network devices that are meant for average home users.. more like small offices01:49
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CoreFusion-i have a dedicated ap01:49
ifreqyeah well some small office stuff has also the usb port.. but what the hell was just an option. forget it then.01:50
CoreFusion-no offense meant01:51
ifreqyeah didnt take :)01:52
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ifreq2AM, time to get some sleep, good luck on hunting for the adapter then.01:52
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CoreFusion-thanks :)01:52
fnordianslipcould somebody please pastebin a default ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg from an N900 for me :)01:53
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jebbathis is bs. let me know when things are actually working again.02:04
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pupnikhow?02:06
pupnikjust hung device fnordianslip sorry ;)02:07
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fnordianslippupnik, no worries, not urgent02:08
fnordianslipjebba: chill dude.02:08
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TomaszDfnordianslip, you still need it?02:08
fnordianslipoh go on then02:08
TomaszDhttp://paste-it.net/public/kfc2bad/02:09
fnordianslipTomaszD: cheers02:10
TomaszDnp02:10
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fnordianslipIts just that I seem to be able to make Media Player crash when editing the NoWatchDirectory entry, and wanted to be sure I'd not buggered the file up elsewhere02:11
lardmannight all02:11
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TomaszDNoWatchDirectory shouldn't make Media Player crash fnordianslip, you'll only get some critical errors in the tracker log02:12
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fnordianslipthat's what i'd have thought.  check out https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=754002:13
povbot`Bug 7540: Media Player crashes viewing Music by Playlist02:13
TomaszDthat is quite a wall of text you have there02:16
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TomaszDfnordianslip, anything interesting in trackerd.log ?02:17
fnordianslipdunno.  where is it?02:17
TomaszD/home/user/.local/share/tracker/trackerd.log off the top of my head02:18
TomaszDyou might get an error about a .camera folder missing, I've already reported that and it's confirmed02:18
fnordianslipis your wall of text comment down to me not using capitalisation?02:19
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TomaszDno, it's ok, it's just a lot of information02:20
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TomaszDfnordianslip, so if you add podcast to nowatch and force re-indexing the bug doesn't occur02:21
TomaszDbut if you don't force re-indexing, media player dies02:21
TomaszD?02:21
fnordianslipnope.02:21
fnordianslipif i add podcast dir to nowatch, then reindex, mp dies.02:21
fnordianslipif i undo that change and reindex, mp doesn't die.02:21
fnordiansliphave now found that many other potential changes to nowatch also cause mp crash02:22
TomaszDbut none of this happens without the massive library?02:22
fnordianslipdunno. you try ?02:22
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TomaszDtbh, I've had enough for today02:23
TomaszDespecially with tracker02:23
fnordianslipassuming you haven't a 'massive' library. which mine isn't :)02:23
TomaszDwhich died on me very often today02:23
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fnordianslipdon't fancy the 3 hour wait to resync the library02:23
fnordiansliptracker very well behaved for me, except this issue02:23
fnordianslipruns well and quickly02:23
pupnik'well behaved'.  look when you open media player, you have to wait for many seconds for it to pull up thumbnails, and watch while it sorts them02:24
TomaszDyes, but if you screw up adding mimetypes, it'll segfault and kill your dog02:24
MohammadAGfound a bug :/02:24
MohammadAGsuppose a song's playing, and you're chatting, what would you use the volume keys for?02:24
pupnikchanging font size02:24
fnordianslipzooming?02:24
MohammadAGlol02:24
TomaszDMohammadAG, that's already fixed.02:24
MohammadAGwhere?02:24
TomaszDin the future02:25
MohammadAGlol02:25
TomaszD:)02:25
TomaszDno, seriously, it's fixed02:25
pupnikoh so when media is playing my application can't see the +/- buttons anymore02:25
MohammadAGgonna vote for it :p02:25
pupnik?02:25
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MohammadAGactually I don't mind it zooming, but it should at least reflow the text!02:26
pupnikthat is an option i think02:26
TomaszDwhen you chat the volume buttons adjust volume for PR1.102:26
TomaszDso don't bother02:26
pupnikchat in WHAT APP?02:26
TomaszDconversations app02:26
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pupnikok nm02:26
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pupnikthose buttons should be relevant to current app, not background processes02:27
pupniklike the keyboard02:27
TomaszDwell, afair, adjusting text size was unintended02:27
MohammadAGagain, I don't mind it, but it should reflow the text02:27
fnordianslipTomaszD:  just reindex with the podcasts dir in nowatch, and nothing interesting in the tracker log.  mp still errors.02:28
angasule>:| I hate this bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=274702:28
povbot`Bug 2747: inconsistent mmc device naming at boot time when one card is missing02:28
TomaszDfnordianslip, very strange02:28
MohammadAGhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=562402:28
povbot`Bug 5624: Zoom in/out in IM chat does not reflow contents02:28
TomaszDnice, so maybe it'll come back later as a feature02:29
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TomaszDthe current version I have adjusts volume02:29
Kamuiwow, that mysticrokks is a pure troll02:30
KamuiI haven't read a single post from him that isn'02:30
Kamuit  derogatory to the OP or just purely not helpful02:30
Kamuifirst official test of the N900 in real world settings for me02:35
Kamuiclosed the 8 hour work day with about 50% battery life, received about 90 jabber IM's on it while connected to wifi.  Im impressed02:36
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Kamuithen 1 hour of podcast at the gym, no charges and its at 50%.  I think this is a definite winner.  Could definately go rbiger battery though.02:37
KamuiAny news on the N97 battery fitting?02:37
timeless_mbpwtf?02:38
MohammadAGmugen said they're making a higher capacity one02:38
timeless_mbpOpenVPN requires Bash?02:38
Kamuiyea, Im still waiting o that02:38
Kamuibut I'd HEARD that the N97 batteries fit02:38
Kamuiboth the regular 1800mah and the extended 4amp02:39
Kamuiobviously the 4amp needs a new back02:39
timeless_mbphrm02:39
zashwoot?02:39
Kamuijust wondering if anyone had confirmed it02:39
MohammadAGno, they don't02:39
zash4Ah?02:39
MohammadAGAssuming you meant the 3600mAh one02:39
Kamuiyea, 3900mah N97 extended02:39
Kamuimaybe it was 360002:39
MohammadAG360002:39
Kamuibut yes02:39
GAN900Kamui, why would a BP-4L fit?02:39
GAN900Kamui, pinwise, sure, but it's too large for the battery bay.02:40
KamuiGAN900, I don't know, I only own the N95, an N80, and the N90002:40
Kamuiso I can't compare them02:40
dnaumovKamui: heh, I went from N80 to an N95 8gb to an N90002:40
Kamuijust read that on a blog02:40
Kamuiha ha, same fo rme dnaumov02:40
dnaumovKamui: looking back now, N80 was all kinds of horrible if we are honest :P02:40
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KamuiI did have the iPhone 2g, 3g, and 3gs in between the N95 and N90002:40
Kamuiyea02:40
KamuiThe N80 was awesome02:41
* Jaffa has an N97 here. Battery much larger physically; doesn't fit in N90002:41
dnaumovN95 8gb is really really good tho02:41
Kamuiexcept it had too little memory02:41
Kamuiand BAD battery life02:41
Kamuiit was what lead me to the N9502:41
KamuiI love dthe N9502:41
KamuiI actually had the N95-302:41
dnaumovmy fiance got my n95 8gb02:41
Kamuiwith an 8gig sim02:41
KamuiI wanted the N95-402:41
dnaumovnow that I am using the N90002:41
Kamuibut It was like 200$ cheaper to get the N95-302:41
dnaumovshe replaced some truly horrible "clamshell" s40 nokia02:41
Kamuitake the .5" screen size loss02:42
Kamuiha ha02:42
Kamuidnaumov, I had the 9300 communicator for a while too02:42
Kamuiwow02:42
Kamuithat was a piece of doodoo02:42
dnaumovoh god02:42
dnaumov930002:42
Kamui9300i to boot02:42
Kamui2nd worst device I've ever owned02:42
KamuiI was in love iwth it fo rabout 1 week02:42
Kamuithen realized just how limiting it was02:42
TomaszDI had all sorts of Siemens phones before going for the e61 initially, then the e51, now n90002:43
KamuiI really considered the e90 for a while, but decided against it.  There were all types of reports of software not supporting the non standard resolution02:43
dnaumovKamui: you wouldnt believe the amount of small business users who got the 9300 and then I had to watch their faces when they called us up (I work at a major mobile/internet provider) and I got to tell them it does not actually have FAX support02:43
Kamuilol02:43
MohammadAGi went from the 6680 to N95 to N97 (sold) to the N73 (really unproductive period) to the N86 and finally the N90002:43
dnaumovwell not watch their faces, but I could imagine them pretty well02:43
Kamuidnaumov, I had an efaxing app on my 9300, it was mostly useless though02:44
Kamuiyou're talking about native fax support righ02:44
VDVsxJaffa, do you like the N97, I had one for a couple of weeks, didn't like it very much :)02:44
KamuiI noticed that its in the firmware, but it never worked...that must be why02:44
TomaszDyeah Jaffa, why do you even have the n97 in the first place? :)02:44
SplasPoodI *loved* my N95, one of the best phones I've ever owned.02:45
Kamuiwell, I hear the N97 mini is pretty nice02:45
dnaumovKamui: we cashed in on that and offered them an auto-answermachine converter service, they were given an additional mobile number which they could give out to people, if you sent a FAX to it, what is technically a gsm answer machine picked it up, converted the fax into a PDF and mailed it to the user via email02:45
Kamuiif you're looking for a consumer ready S60v502:45
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TomaszDthe n95 was and still is great, my father refuses to upgrade from it02:45
Kamuilol dnaumov sounds just like the efax service I had02:45
VDVsxmine N97 has a loan, one of the first release, it seems that the current fw version is much better02:45
VDVsx*was02:45
dnaumovKamui: it was a truly ugly hack, but it worked and it worked perfectly and we saved people time and money and cashed in some serious $02:45
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Kamuinice02:46
MohammadAGhad the N97 from v1002:46
MohammadAGsold it when it got v2002:47
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dnaumovTomaszD: I dont blame him, N95 8gb is the best phone with pda features, while N900 is the best pda with phone features :)02:50
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TomaszDdnaumov, he has the basic model with the card slot, but indeed an 8gb card02:50
Kamuidnaumov, I hate to say it02:50
Kamuibut the N900 has TERRIBLE phone features02:50
Kamuiwell02:50
Kamuinot terrible02:51
Kamuibut incomplete02:51
TomaszDnot terrible phone features.02:51
SpeedEvildo you mean software wise/02:51
TomaszDyes.02:51
Kamuino, I love the N900s dialer and functionality02:51
Kamuiits just that its "lacking"02:51
SplasPoodThankfully I have not encountered many 'issues' with the N900 that appear to be tied to hardware02:51
Kamuiyea, every issue I've had has been software related02:51
dnaumovits finally a phone that actually 1) has 900 Mhz UMTS support 2) is not retarded02:51
dnaumovthat alone is a seller for me :p02:51
Kamuisee im bummed02:51
KamuiI willingly lost 3g to get the N90002:52
Kamuiwho would think they would put tmobiles ridiculous frequency instead of the NATiONWIDE At&T freq02:52
dnaumovah, you got screwed on that, we dont have that problem in Finland :)02:52
Kamuiyea, I know you jerk :)02:53
Kamuibut its ok02:53
KamuiIm mostly always in wifi coverage02:53
Kamuiand the N900 does wifi wonderfully02:53
* simula_ sticks to prepaid telephone and wifi02:53
redeemanKamui: at&t uses the ridiculous frequency02:53
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MohammadAGredeeman, if they changed it they'd lose the iPhone02:53
Kamuiit uses standard us gsm frequency 1900mhz IIRC02:53
Kamuior 850, or both, Im not sure02:53
Kamuibut the point is, its not an obscure frequency in the 1700mhz band02:54
MohammadAGoh wait, doesn't the iPhone support the t-mobile 3G too?02:54
Kamuithat NOTHING else uses02:54
Kamuino02:54
Kamuiit doenst02:54
redeemanKamui: rest of the world doesn't use 850mhz02:54
Kamuiiphone is 850/1900/2100 only for umts02:54
KamuiI know02:54
Kamui2100mhz was in use in the US when 3g gsm rolled out02:54
KamuiI believe its now only recently become a free band02:54
Kamuiif thats the case02:54
KamuiI think its up for auction in 201202:55
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KamuiI read about this in 08, so some of my facts might be slighly off02:55
Kamuimainly dates02:55
jXKamui: No, you're mostly right02:55
Kamuianyway, I don't argue that it would have been nice had the US implemented 2100mhz for Umts02:56
KamuiI wouldn't have een locked out of enjoying an ASSLOAD of good devices02:56
Kamuimy second favorite device of all time was the HTC Exec02:56
Kamuibut I was unfortunate enough to get only GPRS on it02:56
Kamuino edge, only gprs and umts02:56
Kamuiand umts was 2100mhz only on that beauty02:56
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angasuleI can't get ad-hoc working *or* USB networking :(02:57
Kamuiand unfortunately, if you didn't have the 3800mah battery that trippled its size, using wifi yielded about 2 hours of battery life02:57
KamuiAND wifi didn't stay connected of course when the phone slept02:57
Kamuibut I digress02:57
angasuleI had to stand on the sidewalk outside a bar to check my mail today (yeah, I work in one of the main buildings of the largest ISP in the country but they don't have proper wifi...)02:58
Kamuithe N900 is a masterpiece,02:58
Kamuieww, that sucks02:58
SplasPoodMuch like all phones it doesn't seem to understand the concept of 'always try and reconnect' as it relates to IM transports02:58
Kamuiat my office we use EAP-FAST for authentication02:58
Kamuino support on the N900 for eap-fast yet02:58
angasuleI had never heard of EAP-FAST :?02:59
Kamuijust peap, and eap-tls iirc02:59
Kamuieap-fast is ciscos fast EAP authentication based on DC login credentials02:59
Kamuino token02:59
Kamuino certificate I meant02:59
Kamuithe token is built from the DC to the eap controller03:00
angasulethird largest telecom companies in the world (just checked)03:00
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leon-hmm, ioquake3 doesn't install and keeps bitchin about a missing package (opengles-sgx-img-common)03:01
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Kamuiopenarena is the way to go :)03:02
Kamuihaven't tried ioquake3 yet, so thats not a very objective comment03:03
nomisbah, I can't reliably influence the order in the icon view for the videos within the media player.03:03
leon-well, I did have it up and running already03:03
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leon-Kamui, hmm.. openarena has the same issue03:04
Kamuiwhat happens?03:04
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angasuleoh, well03:20
angasulewhenever I try to use USB networking the n810 just reboots itself03:20
Kamuianyone have Mplayer working ont eh N90003:22
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pupnikyes03:22
Kamuitried the version in extras-devel03:22
Kamuibut it freezes after 2 seconds03:22
pupniktry a different file03:22
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KamuiI've been trying mytube03:22
Kamuiill try something manually03:22
SpeedEvilwfm03:22
pupnikyoutube may be too slow to stream03:23
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pupnikanybody here use anything to reformat / indent C code?03:23
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pupnikah 'man indent'03:24
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Kamuiworks03:25
Kamuibut its quite a bit slow03:25
Kamuithe audio is way behind the image03:25
Kamuiprobably just need to adjust some flags03:26
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Kamuipupnik03:27
Kamuiusing a frontend?03:27
Kamuior just the terminal03:27
angasulethis is exasperating, I have no way of getting stuff into my N810, no card reader, no USB networking and no wifi ad-hoc :(03:28
fnordianslipangasule: bluetooth ?03:29
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angasulenope03:29
fnordianslipwhy not?03:29
angasuleI don't have any bluetooth devices?03:30
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fnordianslipyour 810 is your best equipped device then?03:30
angasuleit's the only one with bluetooth03:30
angasulemy laptop has wifi and USB, but I can't get either of those to play nice with the n81003:31
angasuleI'm thinking the n810 is at fault in the ad-hoc case, but for USB, both are giving me attitude03:31
lcukangasule,03:31
lcuksetup a new connection on the n81003:31
lcukmake it adhoc unprotected03:31
pupnikKamui: you are probably playing a file too heavy for mplayer03:32
pupnikso how do we get needed build-deps into sdk repoi?03:32
pupniki keep building deps in scratchbox03:32
lcukassign an ip address subnet and dns manually03:32
pupnikand that work isn't shared03:32
lcukthen connect to it from the n81003:32
lcukreboot your laptop03:33
angasulelcuk: for some reason, the n810 insists my ad-hoc has WEP, if I set it up with WEP, it claims to connect correctly, but ifconfig says it has 100% TX errors03:33
lcukand the new connection should be visible03:33
lcuki use adhoc extensively03:33
lcukthis is the simplest route03:33
angasuleoh :?03:33
Kamuidamn03:33
angasulefunky03:33
Kamuipupnik03:33
Kamuithats ok, the default player works fine03:33
angasuleyou connect to the n810 itself? :?03:33
KamuiI just wanted to use mytube03:33
lcukyes03:33
lcukgo to connect and the adhoc connection you created is listed03:33
angasulethanks, I'll give that a try :D03:33
Kamuiit plays the files perfectly strangely enough03:34
lcukits an always available local based hotspot03:34
lcukthen, when you see it on your pc03:34
lcukconnect03:34
Kamuiso, one question pupnik, how would I disable compositing when running a specifi app03:34
Kamuido you know03:34
lcukit wont find ip addresses, but will create the correct type of connection profile03:34
lcukedit that profile and fill in the required ip addresses and it should work nicely03:34
pupnikKamui: the speed of the cpu is comparable to perhaps a 300 mhz pentium.  If you have one of those, try playing videos on it.03:34
lcukive used this method to connect to other 8x0s, between my 8x0s and 900s and laptop and desktop machines03:35
lcukthe adhoc works well :)03:35
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Kamuipupnik, Im playing a 480p version of robot chicken star wars special avi, I don't know what codec was used03:35
Kamuibut it works perefectly with the built in player03:35
pupnikmplayer tells you all that when it plays03:35
pupnikand 480p is heavy stuff.03:36
Kamuimpeg403:37
derfThe CPU is considerably better than a 300 MHz PII.03:37
lcukhey, pupnik mightv meant a celeron 300a, that could run at 450mhz03:37
pupnikdepends on what you are running.  what would you compare it to03:37
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jaskaceleron266 ran at 400-450 too :) (the l2-cacheless one :)03:38
lcukits got a kickass graphics card this time round too03:38
pupnik500mhz p2?03:38
Kamuihow about disabling compositing03:38
jaskawithout a fan, just a heatsink03:38
pupnikCPU03:38
Kamuihow is that done pupnik03:38
KamuiI want to try that with blender before I break the build with the wrapper03:38
derfWell, Theora ran at just about real-time for 720x480 on a 300 MHz PII.03:38
derfIt's almost 2x real-time on the DSP.03:38
pupnikmplayer Nokia_N900.mp403:38
pupnikCPU03:38
derfAnd the ARM can just about do 720p (about 2.67x better).03:39
ali1234300MHz PII is the slowest x86 that can play DVDs in software03:39
pupnikhahaha03:39
pupnikright, and mplayer running only on CPU is roughly at 300mhz PentiumII03:39
fnordiansliplcuk:  does that adhoc wifi approach work on the n900 too?03:39
pupnikthat's fast.  look at what a 300mhz PII sucks for power.03:40
lcukfnordianslip, indeed it does03:40
lcukwhenever my router dies, i just "meh" and switch connection to adhoc03:40
fnordiansliplcuk: aah.  interesting03:40
lcukworks great on a train or in hotel03:40
ali1234pupnik: yeah well it is over 10 year old technology03:40
fnordianslipcane the devices battery much?03:40
lcuknot noticably bad for me, and right now its even better03:41
lcukcos ive changed where i build software now, cpou isnt running gcc all the time ;)03:41
lcuknormally when i need it, ive got usb lead available from laptop anyway03:42
lcukso its not noticable03:42
fnordianslipthanks.  cool tip03:43
fnordianslipbtw, does avahi work now on the n900?03:43
lcukdunno, think i saw an update, not sure tho03:45
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fnordianslipcheers.  it would be nice if that worked and the hosts used link local address assignments :)03:47
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iluvulcuk:D03:48
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angasule_lcuk: thanks a bunch! you totally saved the day :D03:49
* lcuk waves @ another admirer03:49
* iluvulcuk waves back03:49
lcuk:D03:49
angasule_wicd failed to connect, no idea why, but I just connected manually, with the n810 as the beacon it was easy :D03:50
pupnikbuilt: install-info_4.13a.dfsg.1-5_armel.deb  texinfo_4.13a.dfsg.1-5_armel.deb03:51
pupnik indent_2.2.10-2_armel.deb03:51
lcukpupnik, if i show you some code, could you try to decipher how to make indent make all code look the same03:52
lcukie to use the style i could show you03:52
pupniki haven't learned how to use it yet :)03:52
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Kamuiso my picture problem is that "tracker" is indexing the folder the unwanted images are in?03:56
lcukballs, the bottle of milk is frozen \@/03:56
Aranelis appwatch 0.7 available at -devel?03:56
pupniklcuk: i want tabs in the source.  spaces are annoying03:56
lcuki agree, but only if sizeof(tab) == 4*space03:56
pupnikyeah03:57
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pupnikvi :set tabstop=404:00
angasule_the beauty of tabs is that you can set them to whatever you want :)04:01
angasule_I set mine to 0, it looks great!04:01
* angasule_ installs a bunch of stuff04:02
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pupnikdangit unexpand isn't working for me either04:03
angasule_does OpenAL-Soft work on ARM? :?04:04
pupniki know people have built it, but i haven't heard sound from it04:06
pupnikif you have a source tree for it that builds, please share, btw04:07
angasule_hmm, I don't, at all, I just did a package search04:07
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angasule_I don know the developer, I was going to port my graphical (qt4) configuration utility of it, but not much point till it works :P04:08
angasule_so, I guess I need scratchpad04:08
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MohammadAGnn04:09
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pupnikangasule_:  http://bundyo.com/things/libopenal1_1.10.622-1_armel.deb  http://bundyo.com/things/libopenal-dev_1.10.622-1_armel.deb  http://bundyo.com/things/libopenal1-dbg_1.10.622-1_armel.deb04:10
angasule_pupnik: but no sound from those?04:10
pupniki don't know, i can't get the game to run atm04:10
angasule_does n810 use alsa?04:10
pupnikthose are built for n900 btw04:11
angasule_oh, bummerous04:11
angasule_do you have an n810 or n900?04:11
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angasule_I'm talking with the OpenAL-Soft developer on #openal , and passing the info :)04:13
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pupnikpupnik.de/libopenal0a_0.0.8-4_armel.deb  old build which should work on n810 if you force it04:15
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angasule_hmm, that's the old Sample Implementation, I'd rather not use that :-)04:17
angasule_I'll work on getting a new alsoft version on the n81004:17
Kamuihey04:18
Kamuihow do I get tracker to reindex the phone04:18
angasule_so does the n810 use alsa? or oss? or something else?04:18
KamuiI added an exclusion, but the content is still in the index04:18
KamuiI need to clear the "private" folders I marked out04:19
jXanyone wanna buy an N810?04:19
angasule_how much?04:19
jXincludes a 4GB microSD and a micro to mini adapter!04:19
Kamuiwill deleting the sqlite-db.pragmas file do it?04:19
jXsay, 200?04:19
Kamuinot a bad deal jx04:19
jXoriginal case, stylus, new screen as of this year (old one got a crack in it) new battery04:19
jXeven original box.04:19
jXand that plastic mount for your car04:20
matthew-How to check my n900's IMEI ?04:20
jXmatthew-: under teh battery, or in Settings > About04:20
Kamuimatthew-, go to about in settings04:20
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matthew-yeah04:21
matthew-thanks04:21
jXnp04:21
matthew-x x04:21
matthew-:)04:21
matthew-anyone else having a bad day?04:21
Kamuime04:21
KamuiIm figuring out a lot of shit the hard way04:21
jXme04:21
Kamuiand it sucks04:22
pwnguinyay sgtpuzzles04:22
jXI have to keep fucking up Kamui's things so he stops trying to do things the easy way and it's getting annoying.04:22
* Kamui slaps jX with a sock that has been stuffed with other socks04:23
jXoh noes!04:23
jXhttp://burntelectrons.org/media/onoz.gif04:23
matthew-i lost $483,000.30 today04:23
lcukKamui, i thought tracker was documented04:23
lcukits part of gnome isnt it?04:23
jXthat's funny, I found $483,000.30 today04:23
Kamuiit is04:24
jXby the snack machine04:24
Kamuilcuk thats how I figured it out04:24
lcukso does the documentation tell you how to reset its cache04:24
Kamuithe hard way04:24
Kamui:)04:24
Kamuiyea04:24
lcukwhat? rtfm?04:24
Kamuitracker-processes -r04:24
lcuk"hard way"04:24
Kamuithat clears and resets the cache04:24
jXmatthew-: how'd you lose half a million bucks?04:24
Kamuilcuk, I dind't know it was a standard app04:24
matthew-jX: :-)04:24
lcukme neither04:24
Kamuiso I did a lot of googling, and finally discovered some documentation04:24
matthew-jX: im a trader04:24
lcukwell done on investigating it, did you solve it?04:24
Kamuiwhich I read through04:24
Kamuiye04:24
Kamuis04:24
lcuktheres a bug report regarding this04:25
jXmatthew-: To your friends or to your country? ;)04:25
Kamui.config/tracker/tracker.cfg04:25
pwnguinmatthew-: so you lost someone elses money :)04:25
lcukwhere i queried whether it was possible to exclude04:25
jXmatthew-: Find out what transceiver package the 900 uses?04:25
Kamuiadd to the exclude line, and then run that command to delete the caches04:25
matthew-:D04:25
Kamuiits reindexing now04:25
lcukyeah, i dunno how to reset cache though and was waiting till i next needed it04:25
matthew-jX: no, didnt go to the office today04:25
jXtrader04:25
matthew-will go on thursday04:25
jXTRADER!04:25
jXThis is treesun!04:25
Kamuilcuk, the good thing about it is that I don't dislike being self reliant, I just hate redoing something that Im sure a dozen people have already asked and answered04:25
leon-somehow adding contacts is not producing any links to my desktop, argh..04:25
Kamuiand I suck, buecause it IS on talk.maemo.org04:26
lcukits been asked04:26
Kamui*sigh*04:26
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lcukbut not often04:26
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matthew-pwnguin: well, yeah04:26
matthew-still my bonus ;-)04:26
pwnguinpsh04:26
matthew-and most of my clients is friends and family04:26
matthew-bad RIMM04:27
matthew-bad!04:27
pwnguinif it makes you feel better, my porfolio is down 20 percent from last year04:27
matthew-if it makes you feel better, mine is 96% up since 24-01-200904:28
pwnguinoh well thats cheating04:28
pwnguinactually not much difference04:29
matthew-its small portfolio thou04:29
pwnguinsize is the enemy of return04:29
pupnikwhat's your guess for USD/EUR through jan-feb.04:29
matthew-pwnguin: i dont do Forex04:29
matthew-pwnguin: yeah04:30
pwnguinusd/eur doesn't matter as much as usd/rmb and that's a political calculation04:30
matthew-i dont think ill go over 250m on one portfolio04:30
matthew-exposure that is04:32
* pwnguin just finished watching Shiller's Financial Markets lectures online yesterday04:32
pwnguinquite interesting in a couple ways04:32
pwnguinhis guest speakers were kinda misleading04:33
matthew-;]04:33
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pupnikheh, apple lisa, ebay, $130004:34
pwnguinone guy claims his 28 percent annual return for 10 years was about diversity04:34
pwnguinbut then he lets slip he shorted .coms in the crash and shorted housing this time04:34
doc|homehe shorted both of those and he only made 28%?04:35
derfDiversity is the enemy of return just as much as size is.04:35
pwnguindoc|home: 28 percent for ten years04:35
doc|homethat's actually kinda lame04:35
derfMost people only have a handful of really good ideas.04:35
doc|homeespecially if you've the foresight to short two of the biggest bubbles in history04:36
pwnguindoc|home: you dont understand04:36
SpeedEvilderf: And Newton and Edison thought of them first.04:36
pupnikbtw if you think apple designs are great... http://cgi.ebay.de/Apple-eMate-300-Apple-Newton-in-working-condition_W0QQitemZ290386706212QQcmdZViewItemQQptZKlassische_Computer?hash=item439c657f2404:36
pwnguinits not 28 percent those two year04:36
doc|homepwnguin: I understood that04:36
pwnguinits 28 percent every year for ten, or perhaps 200 percent two years and average otherwise04:36
cehtehuhm .. i still wait to see many newton feature on todays devices :/04:36
cehtehthe newton clipboard was awesome04:37
derfIt's almost 1,200% total.04:37
doc|homepwnguin: yeah, but the housing crash and dotcom bubbles were far greater04:37
doc|home-s04:37
pwnguindoc|home: how the hell do you gain more than 100 percent from a short?04:37
pwnguinin an endowment setting04:37
derfOptions.04:37
pwnguinanyways, im guessing his main tool is access to yale graduates04:38
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pwnguinanother guest speaker mentioned how they took an airline private with a partner04:39
pwnguinturns out a few months after that lecture was given their partner was arrested for running a ponzi scheme04:39
pwnguinanyways, more important things are at hand04:40
pwnguinwhy is extras-devel not working for me?04:41
pwnguin"no hash entry in release file"04:41
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nomisargh. I renamed a file and the media player insists on showing the old name. It even still plays the video.04:48
nomishow do I force a re-run of the meta-tracker?04:49
pupniklinux can detect filename changes, can't it.  that should update tracker.04:53
pupnikbut maybe there will someday be a package for us to get folder-based media player04:53
pupnikfor people who can manage their own directories04:54
pupnikoh and whoever changed 'ls' to improperly sort my _files, die in a fire04:54
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nomispupnik: yeah, I hate this "oh, who cares about directories"-approach.05:00
nomisit already gets crowded with 32 videos.05:01
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nomisat least I managed to disable the always-changing-icon-depending-on-where-I-pause-the-video.05:02
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pupniki find that kind of useful though05:10
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pupnikexcept when the icon breaks05:10
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Kamuihave any copies of 1.1 test versions leaked?05:18
KamuiI'd really like to see where its at right now05:18
KamuiIm thinking about reflashing and starting over anyway, now that I know what I should do to prevent rootfs from filling up so easily05:18
GAN900Kamui, first and only warning. :)05:19
GAN900Kamui, do not solicite pre-release firmwares in this channel.05:19
Kamuidude05:19
KamuiIm sorry05:19
KamuiI should have read the rules05:19
Kamuimy fault, done, and done.05:19
GAN900Thanks. :)05:20
GAN900Understand that Nokia is extending a lot of faith in the community by distributing prerelease firmware under no NDA05:20
doc|homefaith about ... ?05:20
GAN900anything that jeopardizes that behavior in the future is undesireable. :)05:21
KamuiI didn't think this community fw would be as big a secretive deal as apple, but I totally understand what you're saying05:21
GAN900doc|home, not leaking it, not discussing the content with bloggers, etc.05:21
doc|homeGAN900: hmmm, why don't they just do it in the open?05:22
GAN900Kamui, Apple doesn't distribute pre-release stuff not under NDAs. ;)05:22
doc|homemethinks the point of open source is being missed somewhat :/05:22
Kamuithey do to developers and its under NDAs05:22
pupnikanybody try building QMMP?05:23
Kamuibetas are gettable by anyone but its not easy work, hardly an issue here anyway, I was just curious as to what to expect05:23
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Kamuiim done with the iphone I think anyway, N900 is the way of my future ;05:23
Kamui)05:23
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GAN900doc|home, a variety of reasons varying from third party stuff (Flash, etc.) to having dinosaurs and a lot inertia behind the current arrangement05:23
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GAN900doc|home, the open source stuff is nearly all available from git or svn05:24
* doc|home nods05:24
GAN900Kamui, we're working towards a more open-friendly arrangement05:24
GAN900This is the first step05:24
GAN900Unfortunately, big ships turn slow.05:24
Kamuiwell, Im not crying, Q1 release is close enough, plus from all the talk, I feel like it will be this month05:25
Kamui:)05:25
GAN900But if we can demonstrate that this will benefit Nokia (i.e., point management at all the pretty bugs the prerelease testers have filed)05:26
Flandry-sleepdbus, wherefore art thou05:26
GAN900then we can work towards more in the future.05:26
Flandry-sleepis there any dbus services listing for fremantle?05:26
Flandry-sleepany introspection software i could use to discover same05:27
GAN900Kamui, so the problem with leaks is that management may go, "Oh, well, all that got us was leaked pre-release software, bad press and troubled relations with our vendors"05:27
GAN900Since they, by and large, don't really "get" open source.05:27
Kamuiyea, I see your point05:28
ljpFlandry-sleep: I have used qdbus on the n900, but you'll need qt libs05:28
Kamuiit seems to me that a disclaimer and download for registered developers might better the situation05:28
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Flandryqdbus eh05:28
GAN900Kamui, give it 6 months and we'll see where we are.05:29
GAN900Kamui, how bugzilla savy are you?05:29
ljpFlandry: but that doesnt get built by default when building Qt05:29
Flandryit would be nice if nokia would publish a list of the interfaces for their proprietary stuff05:29
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Flandryok it will have to be another day then, thanks05:30
KamuiGAN900, well, Im in a good place right now, not too rough to wait it out05:30
ljpthere is always dbus-monitor :)05:30
GAN900http://tinyurl.com/yey5upe05:31
GAN900Rough list of most of the issues resolved in PR1.105:31
GAN900A few are 1.205:32
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Flandryoh05:39
Flandrydbus-monitor is cool, but i don't think it's going to get me what i need05:39
ljpFlandry: if it's introspectable, then qdbus is easy to use05:40
Flandryalright i'll check it out then, thanks05:41
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papohrm05:41
papoI'm not sure whether I should buy and apply that zagg shield05:41
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KamuiGAN900, really never use bugzilla, but I've used it a few times to report bugs in other apps.  Nothing I couldn't handle ;)05:50
pupniknice fixes!05:50
pupniktry searching for bugs05:51
pupnikhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6100  yea just remove copy and paste from menu05:53
povbot`Bug 6100: The menu item "copy" in the browser menu does not work05:53
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Kamuidamn06:00
Kamuifirst time im seeing the accelerometer bug06:00
Kamuithe eyes widget is randomly bouncing from down to up06:00
Kamuiand rotating the phone wont trigger the dialer06:00
Kamuitime for a cold boot06:00
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GAN900Kamui, wasn't sure if you knew your way around search enough to generate that list.06:09
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mfinkleGAN900: have you tried installing fennec on an n900?06:13
GAN900mfinkle, not since the earlu betas.06:14
mfinklewe had some reports that the deb was not installing into /opt and wanted to know if anyone was saw it too06:14
GAN900s/earlu/early/06:14
infobotGAN900 meant: mfinkle, not since the early betas.06:14
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GAN900mfinkle, installing now. . . .06:15
`0660what's the quickest way to type ä and ö in n900 with us layout?06:17
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`0660or do i just need to enable the virtual keyboard somehow...06:17
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GAN900Fn-Sym06:18
GAN900mfinkle, appears to be installing properly to /opt06:19
Flandryomg there's a goto in this source06:20
`0660thanks!06:21
Kamuithat, GAN900, is a HUGE list06:22
Kamuithe next firmware release is going to be insanely clean06:22
mfinkleGAN900: thanks for checking06:23
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luke-jrFlandry: goto still is sometimes the best way to do things, even if rare :p06:33
luke-jrcomes with the language being functional06:33
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KamuiN900lcuk06:42
KamuiN900rebooted the phone06:42
KamuiN900works again06:42
lcukcould you post a followup vid showing that06:43
* lucent blinks06:46
lucentI wonder, would Ovi Store arrive with the new firmware for N900?06:46
lucentis one holding up the release of the other?06:46
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Arkenoihttp://www.loopinsight.com/2010/01/04/device-turns-iphone-ipod-touch-into-universal-remote/ haha losers06:54
lucentArkenoi: does the IR from N900 transmit 30ft or better?06:56
matthew-Arkenoi: why? can u use n900 as a remote ?07:06
Arkenoilucent: i guess CIR should do, though i tried close range only07:07
Arkenoimatthew-, yes07:07
matthew-Arkenoi: What app?07:07
|RI wish i was able to record my remote in a coherent manner to add support for it :/07:07
Arkenoithe problem is predefined remote database is quite limited but i successfully tried it with my old VCR (yes, i still own a VCR)07:08
Arkenoiqtirreco07:08
matthew-ah07:08
Arkenoiit is not known yet if recording part is possible on n90007:08
matthew-Arkenoi: devel or test?07:08
Arkenoican't remember exactly07:08
|RArkenoi: well i thought it was not, but i was recording with a laptop...07:08
|RIn any case, i'm getting different result every time, go figure :(07:09
matthew-my battery is pissing me off ! :D07:09
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matthew-geez, i love the n900 :<07:11
matthew-i think they created a fanboi when i got it :D07:11
matthew-and, my other idea is to get another one and install openbsd/netbsd on it07:12
|Rhaha, good luck :)07:15
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Arkenoi|R, you do recording with generic IRDA?07:20
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KamuiArkenoi, what range do you get07:28
KamuiI've always wondered hwo well that worked...07:29
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Kamuinothing, including my old ass quasar vcr worked07:30
Kamuiand unforunately it doesn't appear that the app will let you record from another remote :(07:30
Arkenoikamui: never tried more than a few meters. yep, it does not yet :-(07:30
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|RArkenoi: yeah, well, found a guide explaining how to do it... but the output is awkward07:32
Kamuishare07:32
Kamuiyour link07:32
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|Rgive me a sec, i have to find the forum post :)07:33
|Rhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=430484&postcount=4307:33
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konfoo!!!!07:34
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pupnikaudacity is a flaming POS07:50
siriusnovayeah so i just reflashed my N90007:50
siriusnovabut its the same pos crap firmware that came with release since Nokia refuses to release an update07:50
siriusnova>:|07:50
Kamuipupnik07:50
Kamuidid you ever rebuild gemrb for the N900?07:50
Kamuiwondering if that port works07:50
pupniki didn't, bundyo did.  it's complaining about missing files on my device07:52
pupnikso i might need to re-install the game07:53
Kamuithe deb installs ok?07:53
Kamuihas it been optified?07:53
pupniksure, but you will need to config.  yes, mostly07:53
Kamuiand are we talking about 0.6 ddeb?07:53
pupnikyes07:53
pupnikand n90007:53
Kamuisweet07:53
pupniki am working on something more my size ;)07:54
Kamui:)07:54
cehtehmhm07:55
pupnikcehteh: do you know how to make audacity not generate 800kB of .wav file metadata for every 10kB sample07:57
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pupnikhow many years has that been under development?  FIFTEEN?07:58
Kamuipupnik, u porting audacity?07:58
cehtehno idea07:58
pupnikyou can totally smell the KDE-programmer stench07:58
cehtehhow about porting ardour to n900 instead :)08:00
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cehteh(and while at it replace pulseaudio with jack)08:01
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luke-jrpupnik: Audacity is GNOME crap, idiot08:18
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fluxluke-jr, how is ig GNOME crap? it doesn't even use any gnome libraries.08:23
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goodwillso here is a question ... I am using PC Suite to sync an outlook calendar to n900. I have a choice of usb or bluetooth. Anyone knows of way to sync it over the net08:25
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goodwillbefore anyone asks ... mail for exchange is not a viable option08:25
luke-jrflux: glib, GTK, GNOME... all the same crap08:26
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luke-jrjust different layers of the same framework08:27
cehtehreal men use snd08:27
fluxluke-jr, so irssi is GNOME crap then?08:29
luke-jrflux: more or less08:29
fluxwell, you are entitled to your view, of course :)08:29
RST38hIs talk.maemo.org down?08:30
goodwillluke-jr: fvwm? ratpoison fan?08:30
fluxr3no, it's just bloody slow08:30
fluxrst38h even08:30
RST38hAh, no, just very slow. Probably migrated to maemo.org servers, finally08:30
tekojoMorning RST38h :-)08:30
luke-jrgoodwill: never heard of it08:31
goodwillluke-jr: kde?08:31
RST38hEHLO tekojo =)08:31
fluxactually that makes most of Maemo GNOME-crap also, because they indeed seme to use GObject everywhere08:31
luke-jrgoodwill: what of KDE?08:32
flux(most of nokia-services and GUI anyway)08:32
goodwillluke-jr: you do nto like gnome ... so I wonder whats your wm of choice08:32
luke-jrflux: indeed, though Maemo6 is supposed to be better (non-glib)08:32
luke-jrgoodwill: I use KDE, though it is also crap (to a lesser degree)08:32
luke-jrMaemo 6 might have potential to be the first good environment IMO, but I have no confidence in Nokia.08:34
goodwilldoes not see anything wrong with glib08:34
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luke-jrglib: slow; GTK: ugly; GNOME: oversimplified08:36
RST38hGNOME works for me08:36
luke-jrgreat, so you either fit in GNOME's little box of how you should use it, or you don't mind letting the DE tell you how to use it rather than you telling it08:38
goodwillluke-jr: try fvwm ... you can tell it exactly how to behave08:39
luke-jrgoodwill: if it's GTK, no thanks08:40
goodwillluke-jr: its not08:40
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Kamuidamn08:43
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Kamuiopen al suck08:43
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Kamuis08:43
Kamuiits causes pulseaudio to suck 55%+ cpu when a game/app uses it08:43
Kamuieithe rthat or pulseaudio has a huge buck08:43
Kamuibug08:43
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fluxyeah, pulseaudio cpu consumption wonders me also. I've been hoping it's because apps use a mismatched sample rate (bug) and pulseaudio needs to resample..08:46
fluxis there a bug about that?08:46
Kamuihaven't looked on bugzilla yet08:47
Kamuiill take a look later, gotta get to bed08:47
Kamuiother than the pulseaudio issue, gemrb runs great08:47
Kamui:)08:47
* cehteh tought the DSP could do that ..08:47
fluxcehteh, maybe it could, but.. ?08:48
cehtehyeah blame someone else :P08:48
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RST38hX-Fade: around?09:18
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destinalquick scratchbox2 question..   the default                   {prefix = "/lib", map_to = target_root},   in  /usr/share/scratchbox2/lua_scripts/pathmaps/simple/00_default.lua   works, but I can't make new ones like        {prefix = "/usr/local", map_to = target_root},   .. any idea what I'm doing wrong?09:34
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Ceronhttp://www.lachschon.de/images/61357_i_cant_let_you_do_that_dave.jpg10:12
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Markus23good morning!10:22
pupnikmoo10:22
Markus23is it possible to open a new window for the browser in background?10:22
Markus23I sometimes want to open several windows and look at them later10:22
Markus23especially when reading rss10:22
Markus23is this supported?10:22
homeasvsX-Fade, ping10:23
kaudioyes10:25
Markus23kaudio: how can I change this behaviour?10:25
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RST38hhey pupnik10:28
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pupnikhi RST38h10:35
pupniksis you check out psx4all?10:35
pupnikdid10:35
pupnikkinda fun to see it chugging10:36
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RST38hpupnik: Naah, I never had PSX to begin with10:47
RST38hSo it is all kinda alien to me10:48
pupnikyeah that makes it not fun10:48
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pupnikretro is for the vibes10:48
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pupniki would have been a clockmaker in midieval europe10:49
pupnikmakin gears mesh10:49
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JaffaMorning, all10:51
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dmj726hmm...this whole camera thing is really handy.11:04
tybollthow so11:05
pupnikcause it doesnt suck11:05
dmj726I managed to use it to take a video of my hot chocolate, showing the consistency it *should* be since everyone is asleep right now.11:05
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pupnikand you can share pics so much more easily than a regular camera11:06
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dmj726Oh, wow this is rich.11:07
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dmj726I don't think I would've brought out the digi8 camcorder for this.11:08
pupnikcatching the moment is the key11:08
dmj726yep, I can enjoy my "drink" and video it too.11:09
tybolltguess you had to have a n900 for ... that11:10
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dmj726I've been trying to make hot chocolate like they make in spain for a couple years now11:10
dmj726I think I've finally succeeded.11:10
tybolltwhats the secret?11:10
dmj726Fill a glass with 50% bittersweet chocolate, 25% milk, and 25% sugar.11:11
dmj726Boil that.11:11
tybolltholy crap11:11
dmj726Stir it vigorously for a minute11:12
nealthat's thick11:12
tybolltthat's insta-fatener right there >:)11:12
dmj726heat it to a boil again11:12
dmj726stir it vigorously for another minute until it's smooth11:12
dmj726It is.11:12
dmj726Make a small cup, not a big one.11:12
nealsounds like Angelina's (in Paris)11:12
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dmj726This is fairly similar to what I had at Chocolateria San Gines in Madrid11:13
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tybolltif I served this to the missus she'd be on a sugar-high for the rest of the evening ;)11:13
dmj726Which incidentally is the only Spanish restaurant I know of that offers free water.11:13
dmj726since the chocolate makes you thirsty.11:13
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prakanyone know of an easy way to edit my sudoers file?11:26
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praki'm trying to get a bash script working on my n810, but having a lot of trouble11:26
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prakanyone here?11:29
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timeless_mbpprak: um11:31
timeless_mbp /etc/sudoers.d/yourfile_here11:31
timeless_mbp+ update-sudoers11:31
timeless_mbp(roughly)11:31
timeless_mbp /usr/sbin/update-sudoers11:32
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praktimeless_mbp: huh? i don't understand what you just said11:34
tybolltotherwise using the "visudo" command is recomended11:34
timeless_mbpprak: why do you want to update sudeors11:34
timeless_mbps/eo/oe/11:34
infobottimeless_mbp meant: prak: why do you want to update sudoers11:34
timeless_mbpthe reason i update it is because i have a package that distributes a file that needs sudo11:34
floriangood morning11:34
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timeless_mbpthe proper way to do it is to distribute a file w/ the bits i want in the directory i mentioned11:34
timeless_mbpand call update-sudoers11:34
timeless_mbpwhich does the right thing (tm)11:35
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praki want to be able to run a certain script that i wrote11:37
prakwhich i am having some problems running11:37
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prakhttp://www.pastebin.ca/1738551 and http://www.pastebin.ca/173855211:38
prakbut i'm having problems running on the n810 even though i can run it on my ubuntu11:38
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grondiluHi, I've tried to encode a video using 'mencoder -avc lavc -lavcopts mpeg4 ...' but it doesn't seem to play well on my N900.  What are the best mencoder options to encode a vidéo for this device ?11:56
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cehtehgrondilu: http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/tablet-encode.html11:57
cehteh... but caveat, i got a bad video because of wrong framerate11:57
cehtehjust reencoding with fixing that in the source11:58
grondiluthks cehteh, I'll try that.11:59
pupniki noticed media player didn't honor my aspect ratio specifications12:02
pupniki.e. you have 320x240 and want to stretch to 400x240 for e.g.12:03
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grondiluOh I see it's in Perl...  That's good.12:03
Gadgetoid_mbpNo SDL_net.h in scratchbox, what's the deal with that, yee!12:06
pupniksec12:06
RST38hcehteh: just use mencoder directly12:07
cehtehi dont care ..12:07
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kkitohello12:07
pupnikfakeroot apt-get install libsdl-net1.2-dev12:07
* pupnik LOVES indent12:07
RST38hin which way?12:08
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Gadgetoid_mbppupnik, that's a good idea ;D12:08
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timeless_mbphello world12:09
Gadgetoid_mbpOnly it doesn't seem to exist12:09
timeless_mbpanyone feel like writing a tiny hildon test app for me?12:10
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Gadgetoid_mbpI think I've had a repo fail12:10
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pupniki can download a tiny hildon test app and build it12:14
pupnikGadgetoid_mbp: i don't really know how to see repo for the installed lib12:14
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Gadgetoid_mbppupnik: it's in extras dev, which I forgot to add *facepalm*12:14
pupniknp12:15
pupnikwb woglinde12:15
woglindejo pupnik12:15
Gadgetoid_mbpThanks for putting up with my stupidity12:15
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pupnikapt-cache show [package] gives enough to google it tho12:16
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tabMonkeyhi all12:17
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cehtehpupnik: apt-cache policy [package]12:18
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* cehteh stomped on that some days ago too :)12:19
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edheldilbut you can't see from which repo an *installed* package came, AFAIK12:19
cehtehedheldil: apt-cache policy [package]12:20
cehteh.. for you too :P12:20
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Gadgetoid_mbpBetter make a mental note to try that one12:21
Gadgetoid_mbpJust trying to get the damned thing to update the src repo without failing now12:21
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edheldilcehteh:  that's not true. see my careful wording12:22
edheldilit only shows from which repo the package of the same version is installable12:22
wazd_e63Morning all12:22
cehtehok then12:23
RST38hmoorning wazd12:23
_claesbasmorning12:23
Stskeepsmorn wazd12:23
woglindemoo12:23
Gadgetoid_mbpmoorning12:23
edheldilceh900:  i.e. if you haven't the repo in aources.list, apt-cache policy will not show it12:23
edheldilsry, ceh900 -> cehteh12:24
cehtehyeah . .and for manually (dpkg -i) installed packages it doesnt show either12:24
cehtehmhm why is ceh900 here .. i rebooted the n900 :P12:24
ccookeMorning, all12:24
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ceh901spam12:25
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SpeedEvil10 minute timeout until you pingout12:25
cehtehyeah12:25
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cehteh:) bye12:26
Gadgetoid_mbphmm dear, repo fail12:28
StskeepsGadgetoid_mbp: http://www.qaiku.com/channels/show/maemork/view/1def9d2befd8994f9d211dea4c8d37a06ba62346234/12:29
Gadgetoid_mbpAh, that would be why I'm having trouble updating?12:29
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Gadgetoid_mbpWill have to install it the old fashioned way12:31
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Gadgetoid_mbpWheee, compiling12:35
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Gadgetoid_mbp*facepalm* -lsmpeg12:36
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Arkenoioops. fremantle lynx does not support https :-/12:38
adeushow about links12:39
Arkenoidon't see links in any repositories12:40
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SpeedEvilwget?12:43
adeusapt-cache policy links12:44
adeushttp://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/free Packages12:44
Arkenoiah, sdk12:45
Arkenoinot optified i guess12:45
Arkenoinot really a problem, though12:45
* timeless_mbp looks for native speakers12:45
lcukeveryone is a native speaker of some language or other12:45
woglinde*g*12:46
woglindeugh12:46
Gadgetoid_mbpI speak English natively, brilliant12:47
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lcuki speak northern12:47
lcukas does JamieBennett1 :D12:47
JamieBennett1:P12:48
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* ShadowJK speaks nothing native12:48
woglindelcuk whats northern?12:49
VDVsxwoglinde, bad English :P12:50
lcukabstract dialect of english12:50
* lcuk slaps VDVsx 12:50
woglindelike saxxion in germany12:51
woglindehaha12:51
ShadowJKit has glottal stops instead of consonants. or vowels. I forget which12:51
ShadowJKmaybe it wasn't northern12:51
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timeless_mbphey, does anyone here know how to post one of those notifications that appears in the task switcher?12:54
SpeedEvil'gps recorder' does it12:54
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* timeless_mbp reads http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/hildon-home/src/hd-notification-manager.xml12:56
* timeless_mbp pokes JamieBennett 12:56
timeless_mbplcuk: i presume i've already offered my package to you12:56
* JamieBennett pokes back12:56
lcukyeah its installed12:56
timeless_mbpwhen was the last time it offered an update?12:56
timeless_mbpi tried to push an updated version today12:56
lcukdidnt check yet12:57
Gadgetoid_mbpHmm. is there a libmpeg already in a repo for fremantle?12:57
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timeless_mbpok13:08
timeless_mbpit looks like there's a ActionInvoked thing13:08
timeless_mbpanyone know how to use it? :)13:09
timeless_mbpso, it looks like i need to create a dbus service13:11
timeless_mbpregister it13:11
timeless_mbpthen forge a notification to hildondesktop w/ that service as the return address13:11
timeless_mbpand have the service reboot the system when it's called13:11
ifreqany good msn-account-plugin available yet?13:11
timeless_mbpifreq: i take it that butterfly is 'bad'?13:12
ifreqit has signup problems and heard it eats battery13:12
ifreqmsn-pecan has signup probs + it imports contacts without asking13:12
zaheermi have been using felipec's pecan for a few days and it is good13:12
ifreqhaze eats battery too13:12
zaheermall 3 import contacts without asking13:13
ifreqokay thats quite annoying :P13:13
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ifreqmayb ill give a msn-pecan new try13:13
zaheermwell that is how the telepathy ones work13:13
zaheermthey integrate with your addressbook13:14
ifreqyeah right13:14
zaheermif you don't want that, use pidgin...13:14
ifreqtoo bad i dont have rest of the contacts added.. so just 20+ msn email addresses13:14
ifreqas i dont contact them via phone/sms  etc :P13:14
ifreqhermes import was nice13:14
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* Stskeeps curses libcal13:16
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ifreqis it normal that msn-pecan does not have icon under accounts (new)?13:19
Gadgetoid_mbplibmpeg anyone?13:20
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ifreqzaheerm: how do you like that when you remove msn contact under contacts it removes it from server too.. :)13:22
zaheermifreq, once you understand and actually read the warning, i'm fine...it'd be nice however to have an undo13:23
TomaszDzaheerm, I saw your thumbs up on my package, no issues with tracker? PR1.1 or 1.0?13:23
zaheermTomaszD, none that i noticed pr1.0 (not one of the lucky few)13:23
TomaszDok, cool, thanks13:23
pupniki need a nasty bezerk speech synth13:23
ifreqzaheerm: yeah, i just dont like only the msn contacnts under contacts.. so ofcourse removed em.. and read the warning later13:24
woglindepupnik lol13:24
pupnik:)13:24
pupnik(i do)13:24
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tabMonkeyAnyone know if there's a way to restart mce on the n900 without it rebooting the device?13:30
timeless_mbpgreedy.13:30
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tabMonkeyno-one?13:33
leon-would anybody know where I could install opengles-sgx-img-common with the version 0.20090218.55.9+0m513:33
leon-I seem to have something newer in my system and apt-get install does not find this particular version in the repos13:33
woglindeleon you need the nokia-binary line in your sources.list13:34
woglindebut I have to go now13:35
woglindesorry13:35
leon-woglinde, ok thanks.. I'll ask around13:35
woglindethere is a website13:35
woglindewhere you can request your personal deb line13:35
woglindebut I always forget where this was13:36
woglindeokay bye for now13:36
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tabMonkeyI believe the the website woglinde was referring to is this one http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php13:37
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leon-tabMonkey, many thanks!13:39
tabMonkeynp13:40
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ifreqif i reflash firmware do i need to reinstall all software +tune settings?13:43
pupnikno, it restores the broken state that caused you to need to reflash13:43
pupnik(joke)13:44
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ifreqhavent reflashed since i got the machine. but would love to have newer fw at some point.13:44
dmj726is there a way to update the fw without an effective compelte reinstall?13:45
pupnikbookmarks, contacts get restored13:45
dmj726apps and documents?13:45
pupnikhttp://lmgtfy.com/?q=n900+flash+restore+settings13:46
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dmj726I mean for when the new fw comes out, not if you brick it?13:46
Stskeepsandre__: ping13:48
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fluxit would be nice if installed apps (and potentially their configuration) would stay intact during fw upgrade, but one can dream?13:49
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dmj726hmm...my n900 is mounting as read only13:49
andre__Stskeeps, pong13:49
dmj726flux...so it doesn't?13:49
fluxdmj726, I have no idea13:50
fluxdmj726, I'm pessimistic :)13:50
dmj726ah13:50
fluxthe best would be a normal apt-gettable upgrade, but apparently that won't be the case :-o13:50
dmj726I would hope there would be something more like ubuntu updates rather than clean slate13:50
fluxinfact, why not have both: apt-get, and if something fails horribly, you could always reflash13:50
dmj726yeah13:51
tabMonkeyif it's one of the SSU (seamless software update) they usually keep all of your settings and things13:51
tabMonkeythough they also sometimes go horribly wrong and require a reflash anyway ;)13:51
dmj726hopefully it will be one of those.13:51
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tabMonkeyI'm fairly sure it would be - the last few for the maemo 4 devices have been13:51
fluxtabmonkey, well, will it keep my hand-made /etc/network/if-up.d/00_openvpn ?13:51
dmj726actually it wouldn't matter either way if you could just get your package list and home folder backed up13:52
fluxor other files possibly created by software that doesn't add itself to the backup meta data file13:52
tabMonkeyflux: possibly, depending on whether they've made any changes to that area - if that's a standard file they'll overwrite it with their changes13:52
fluxtabmonkey, that'd be fine for me :)13:52
flux..although debian does have that 3-way configuration file merge also.. ;-)13:53
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dmj726have either of you had ubuntu mount your n900 read only?13:53
fluxI wonder what happens to those folk who have converted ~user/MyDocs to ext3.. apparently camera doesn't work (?) after that.13:53
tabMonkeybest to take a backup of it - I don't think the maemo application manager has three-way merges yet13:53
tabMonkeydmj726: no, not seen that. Might be that the partition needs a fsck?13:54
dmj726n900 can do one itself?13:54
tabMonkeyflux: since they've done that I'm sure they'd be fine organising it themselves. I read today that a loop version of the ext3 ~user/MyDocs can use the camera correctly13:55
fluxtabmonkey, by loop you mean loopback-file mounted as ext3?13:56
tabMonkeydmj726: Not sure - I think so. You'd need to unmount MyDocs first13:56
dmj726sound unpleasant13:56
fluxtabmonkey, I wonder if there are any data safety or performance issues.. but if not, sounds like a decent option :)13:56
pupnikfind /etc -mtime 21   << get a list of files modified under /etc in past 21 days13:56
tabMonkeyflux: yeah, titan did something along those lines in this post http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=446502&postcount=10113:57
dmj726why would a camera app care abotu which fs it's on?13:58
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tybolltI want reiser on Mydocs... c'mon, 's got to be the killer app!13:58
fluxI wonder if the camera app problem is due to lack of permissions, which are quite relaxed on the currently mounted vfat partition13:58
KMFDMit will be real killer13:58
dmj726Unless it's got something hard coded there, but that's pure ugly13:58
dmj726permissions would be the likely culprit13:59
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dmj726"Do you want to empty the trash before you unmount?"14:05
dmj726"In order to regain the free space on this volume the trash must be emptied. All trashed items on the volume will be permanently lost."14:06
ifreqwill there be new firmware next week? heard some rumours14:06
tabMonkey_dmj726: emptry trash? Is it windows giving that message?14:06
dmj726nope14:07
dmj726ubuntu14:07
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tabMonkey_dmj726: hmm. Ubuntu may have created a .trash folder or something.14:07
FIQthat message seemed to came from windows lol14:07
tabMonkey_ifreq: it's always a possibility - since a release is being tested by some at the moment14:08
* FIQ thinks that if he deletes a folder or file, he wants to delete it14:08
dmj726hmm n900 thinks the fs is read only too14:08
tabMonkey_dmj726: if you're on ubuntu you should be able to plug the n900 in, unmount it and fsck it there, rather than having to do it through the n90014:09
tybolltanyone tried qemu/kvm in the n900?14:10
dmj726fsck is complaining about it not being ext214:10
tabMonkey_fsck.vfat14:10
dmj726ah14:10
dmj726:-[14:10
dmj726I don't fsck much14:11
dmj726um innuendo not intended14:11
tabMonkey_hehe14:11
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dmj726I think I found another fix though14:11
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tabMonkey_what was your fix?14:13
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tekoniveln900 refuses to turn on :( :( :(14:16
tekoniveleven the led shows no nothing14:16
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hrwmorning14:17
tabMonkeymorning14:17
tekoniveltop of the morn all14:17
dmj726tabMonkey: reboot twice14:17
dmj726didn't work14:17
mgedmintekonivel, plug the charger in, leave it for an hour or two14:17
dmj726tekonivel: aww14:17
tekonivelmgedmin: its been in the usb overnight. didn't help :(14:19
mgedminooh :(14:19
mgedminpulling the battery out didn't help either?14:19
tekonivelwhen i connect the charger, and orange led appears. it turns off after a whiöe14:19
mgedminhmm14:19
dmj726have you tried resoldering the microusb port?14:19
tekonivelmgedmin: noåe14:19
mgedmincharging the battery in a different device might be simpler14:20
tybolltresoldering anything will get you into neat problems when claiming warranty14:20
tekonivels/noåe/nope/14:20
infobottekonivel meant: mgedmin: nope14:20
tybolltfirst - go for warranty - THEN when all other options are bust - resort to HW mod14:20
tekoniveli sure haven't soldered anything14:20
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tekonivelalso, i didn't do anything special. the device just ran out of juice, and now isn't recovering14:21
ShadowJKdo you have a voltmeter or multimeter?14:22
tekoniveli was wndering, are there any incantations i can make, like pressing a key combination at startup etc14:22
tybolltwhat puzzles me is you actually get the charging led... tells me it can't be _entirely_ bricked.14:22
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tekoniveltybollt: normally the charging led pulsates, right?14:22
ShadowJKyes14:22
tekoniveltybollt: mine doesn't14:22
tekonivel:'{14:23
tybollthmm14:23
tybolltI recall my charging led not pulsating at one time14:23
tybolltPerhaps I was too drunk at the time?14:23
* tybollt is trying now14:23
tekonivelmgedmin: yeah removing battery for 2 minutes didn't help either14:23
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tekoniveli feel handicapped without mobile internet. what a horrible situation14:24
tybolltthere we go14:25
tybolltcertainly pulsating14:25
* tybollt must've been too drunk then14:25
tekoniveltybollt: yeah that's what i remembbered (pulsating, not drunk)14:25
tybollt;)14:25
tekoniveli don't remember being drunk ;)14:26
tybolltIf I were you I'd lookup nearest nokia repair centre and git'r done14:26
tekonivelwtf14:26
tybolltworks now? :D14:26
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fluxtekonivel, have you recharged it for a long period after disconnecting/connecting battery?14:26
tekonivelthis is showing a good sign of life now14:26
flux(and not reconnecting the charging power)14:26
tekoniveli moved from usb to a proper charger... is pulsating now14:27
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tekonivelflux: overnight14:27
tybollttekonivel: ooooh14:27
mgedminbug 6004?14:27
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6004 N900 sometimes ignores USB data cable14:27
tybollttekonivel: please -always a proper charger14:27
tybollttekonivel: there's no guarantee what a computer/whatever will output on a usb port I suppose.14:27
mgedminhappened to me again the other day: plug in USB data charger --> N900 doesn't charge, doesn't pop up the "what to do with USB?" menu14:27
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mgedminunplug, plug again -> worked14:27
tybolltif drained entirely - always real charger14:28
tekonivelthis sucks, because i tried this proper charger yesterday, i'm sure14:28
tybolltmgedmin: that's a known bug - apparently fixed in RP1.114:28
ShadowJKusb cable to computer requires the battery to have enough power left for n900 to boot and negotiate with computer... plus, the charger is twice as strong as usb14:28
tekoniveltybollt: aha, ok that must be it14:28
* tekonivel sighs of relief14:28
tekonivelthanks you all for holding my hand :`}14:29
tekonivelstill acting up, i'm not reliefed under i see the desktop14:30
Muhvi^^14:30
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Muhvithat is common problem with other phones as well14:30
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leon-hehe, the nokia binaries and falling back to the earlier opengles version bricked the device :)14:31
leon-had to get it reflashed, ugh14:31
Muhviif using usb charger from computer etc. it doesn't always charge the phone if battery is totally dried up14:31
ShadowJKIt shouldn't really let the battery get that dried up in the first place, but otoh the user can do things that pull battery lower :/14:32
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dmj726any reason files might not chmod?14:34
tekonivelnow booting14:34
dmj726I'm root14:34
tekonivelthis surely hasn't been an experience i'veenjoyed14:34
tekonivelluckily there's #maemo14:34
tekonivel:)14:34
dmj726I do chmod 755 myfile and it's still not executable14:35
X-Fadedmj726: THat is because the card is mounted noexec.14:35
dmj726ah14:35
dmj726how do I run programs from it then?14:35
dmj726I've done it before14:36
X-FadeYou don't ;)14:36
mat-dmj726: i just have the same problem14:36
dmj726I ran sheep that way14:36
mat-and discovered that any of the files in Mydocs will become executable14:36
fluxmaybe via /lib/ld-linux.so.3 ?14:36
tekonivelnow at desktop. thanks all, esp tybollt, ShadowJK, flux, mgedmin14:36
dmj726what did you do?14:36
X-Fademaybe by calling sh before it?14:36
dmj726mat-: how did you execute the files?14:36
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mat-dmj726: moved my files to /home/usr/14:37
mat-and NOT Mydocs14:37
RST38hAh heeeere you areeee14:37
fluxbah, that hole has been closed14:37
RST38hX-Fade: Can I ask for one more little favor? =014:37
X-FadeRST38h: It it is in the few minutes work range, yes ;)14:37
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RST38hX-Fade: Hope so. Could you approve my request to become XChat maintainer?14:38
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X-FadeRST38h: Oh, that I can do.14:38
* RST38h thinks the last build should be promoted to -Testing but does not have the rights14:38
RST38hThanks!14:38
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RST38hSame for XChat Locales please14:38
X-Fadedone14:38
JaffaX-Fade: Should https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7545 be assigned to you or Ferenc? Ferenc seems to be the default assignee...14:39
povbot`Bug 7545: Install the SyntaxHighlight source-code extension14:39
homeasvsX-Fade, is it possible someone killed the couchdb build yesterday ? The log looks awfully short and gives no real reason for failure besides a signal14:39
X-Fadehomeasvs: I did.14:39
homeasvsX-Fade, ok, so it was hung ?14:39
X-Fadehomeasvs: erlang was running 2000 minutes on that file.14:39
X-Fadehomeasvs: I thought that was long enough.14:39
homeasvsX-Fade, weird, it didn't hang back when I built erlang, and now it does hang.  Any chance it ran on different builders ?14:40
tybolltbit OT so you will chastise me for it but... screen protection or no screen protection? experiences?14:40
X-FadeJaffa: yes, ferenc is fine for that. I am in cc for that anyway.14:40
X-Fadehomeasvs: qemu was spinning 100%.14:40
pingpongdoes anybody know how I can prevent the MAC address of the usb network from changing? I would like to use a udev rule but's the MAC is changing after reboot14:41
homeasvsX-Fade, yeah, that's what happens in my armel scratchboxes, and that's what I also expected for the erlang build in extras, but it didn't14:41
homeasvsX-Fade, so I'm surprised it does now for couchdb14:41
pingpong*udev rule at my host system14:41
ShadowJKtybollt: new touchwindow assy is 100 bucks, you can just replace hatt if you accidentally put n900 in same pocket as your keys/pens and whatever14:41
X-Fadehomeasvs: I remember that for erlang I also needed to kill something.14:41
X-Fadehomeasvs: And then it continued instead of failed.14:42
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homeasvsX-Fade, yeah.  In my sbox however any erlc execution hangs14:42
tybolltShadowJK: it works like that? I mean... you can get that part? I don't have to have a good friend at nokia's? ;)14:43
homeasvsX-Fade, otoh I just noticed that the erlang packages are bad anyway, none of the crypto/ssl stuff was built14:43
X-Fadehomeasvs: Can you try it with a newer qemu in your own sbox?14:43
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X-Fadehomeasvs: http://maemo.gitorious.org/qemu-maemo14:44
ShadowJKtybollt: you can get the component for 55. If I understood it correctly, some guy on tmo who had a big scratch was quoted ~100 bucks by a repair shop14:44
homeasvsX-Fade, I'll try - can I build a .deb straight from that checkout ?14:45
RST38hA'ok, XChat goes into Extras-Testing, thanks X-Fade14:45
JaffaVDVsx: Could it be argued that the Jan sprint meeting is an opportunity for some of our more... quiet... council members to show some activity?14:46
X-Fadehomeasvs: I have no idea, if there is a debian dir then you should be able to just run dpkg-buildpackage.14:46
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homeasvsI'll check and let you know14:46
dmj726okay, I'm officially retarded.14:46
VDVsxJaffa, + 1 for that, I'll have a very busy month :(14:46
dmj726I just spend 10 minutes trying to figure out why a program won't run14:46
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RST38hMoo, VDVsx by the way14:46
VDVsxhey RST38h :)14:47
tybolltShadowJK: neat. My experience from nokia repair centre around here (stockholm, .se) is they'd just "sorry - that'd cost more thant the phone is worth, bubye now"14:47
dmj726It's a binary compiled for x8614:47
JaffaVDVsx: Especially since at least two of the council members ran on an "increased communication" ticket.14:47
tybolltShadowJK: w/out even inspecting the damage to the phone14:47
tybolltbut that's very good news14:47
ShadowJKtybollt: well the same guy was quoted 224 for replacing the cover and case14:48
tybolltheh, there you go :)14:48
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VDVsxJaffa, I'm trying to do my best, but the last times were not very easy, I'm starting to be a little bit demotivated, especially after get massive insults yesterday :(14:50
VDVsxbetter times will come :)14:50
JaffaVDVsx: Now you know why I stopped :-(14:50
ShadowJKhttp://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900 all not in stock and unorderable :(14:50
X-FadeVDVsx: Always remember that people who complain care, when they stop complaining, they moved on ;)14:51
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dmj726http://forums.celtx.com/viewtopic.php?t=8366&sid=b4d20c0f0ee49b14b49b4228e4596c1714:51
VDVsxX-Fade, I'm fine with complains, but I like to be respected at least in the same way I respect others14:52
dmj726It strikes me that celtx shouldn't be too terribly hard to port14:52
tybolltShadowJK: any word of a car gps-style holder/dock?14:52
JaffaVDVsx: Take Texrat up on his volunteration14:52
nealwhen a gtktreeview is placed in a hildon pannable area, the row heights are large.  I appreciate that this is useful for selecting the right item, but I'd like to nevertheless reduce the height by about 30%.  How can I do this?14:53
VDVsxJaffa, he told me he's a bit sick, but I'll check it him :)14:53
dmj726would anybody want celtx on their phone?14:53
ShadowJKtybollt: hm, I was going to try one I saw at Clas Ohlson once..14:53
X-FadeVDVsx: true.14:53
JaffaVDVsx: Ah, doh. He gets migraines IIRC14:53
tybolltShadowJK: Dude... Clas Ohlson? :)14:53
JaffaWhich reminds me, I need some drugs14:53
Stskeepsperhaps it's time to give council increased role as it's well, a bit not-functional atm :P14:54
tybolltI don't trust them w/ this fine a phone :)14:54
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ShadowJKtybollt: well my N900 already proved it survived an aerial flight through my car ;)14:54
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X-FadeShadowJK: Did you have n900fly running?14:55
* Jaffa wants to give the current council a scorecard. Maybe it'd be best sent straight to council@maemo.org rather than public shaming; and asking them what they've learned and how we can make sure we get more active candidates.14:55
KMFDMmy n900 survived an aerial flight today14:55
KMFDMit kept running to and didn't crash14:55
tybolltShadowJK: Hmm you HAD to test that "throw your n900"-app - didn't you? ;-)14:55
ShadowJKx-fade: no it wasn't out yet14:55
RST38hEh...gerbick transdickifies so quickly nowadays...14:55
* Stskeeps wouldn't mind seeing community council be people who spearhead efforts and work with people to get things accomplished and get a sense of having a management of the community14:55
KMFDM*too14:55
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JaffaStskeeps: That sounds ideal :-)14:55
Stskeepsas we are kinda flailing atm14:55
KMFDMi slide on ice and had to decide if i wanted to fall face first on ice covered concrete or drop the phone and get my balance14:55
KMFDMgranted i have a rubber protector on the phone14:56
tybolltI'd say I fancy my n900 broken over my face being turned into ground meat14:56
X-FadeThe 'problem' with a community council is that they need to do things in their spare time.14:56
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X-FadeGoals often get kicked by real life issues.14:56
VDVsxStskeeps, ran for the council, I'll vote on you :p14:56
KMFDMtybollt, precisely14:57
KMFDMso into the air it went14:57
StskeepsVDVsx: being both a maemo.org employee and council will give me a headache14:57
KMFDMthe protector flew off, battery panel flew off14:57
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KMFDMbut battery stayed put so it stayed on14:57
ShadowJKI had my N900 on the dashboard because that's where its fm transmitter gives best signal. In an intersection it was more slippery than I anticipated, and I was in a lazy sideways skid, and when the wheels found grip again and straightened out the car, the jerk sent my N900 flying :)14:57
KMFDMi gave a live update in another irc channel at the time14:57
X-FadeStskeeps: And a bit of a conflict of interest ;)14:57
JaffaX-Fade: Indeed. But that doesn't seem to be a problem for a lot of other projects. I think the expectation is that those who have the idea have to push it; and it's not clear that all the disparate people involved in maemo.org (some Nokians, some maemo.org, some contractors at Nemein) who can set and push an agenda.14:57
VDVsxStskeeps, I can recommend you some good pills for that :)14:57
Stskeepsmaybe council should be a matter of daily management instead - if you run for it, you run for daily or weekly meetings where efforts are voted on and resources allocated , if you can't handle that, resign14:59
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RST38hStskeeps: See item about how this is done in spare time15:00
VDVsx@ BCN I discussed with dneary & others, if nokians/maemo.org people in the council could be good or bad for the community15:00
StskeepsRST38h: still15:01
RST38hStskeeps: From personal experience I can assure you that this is barely possible =(15:01
tybolltno, you all just say that - while in fact you were looking for an excuse to test  ... http://my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?name=N900_Fly&faq=47&fldAuto=104315:01
tybollt;-)15:01
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StskeepsRST38h: well, then council is partly useless and we start to have mini commitees or something instead that -can- spend time on issues :P15:02
Stskeepslike we have bugsquad, docsquad, etc15:02
RST38hStskeeps: Interesting idea15:02
RST38hStskeeps: i.e. switch to something small, adhoc, centered around a single task15:02
Stskeepsright now we're not getting any visions or direction of the community to self-organise either :P15:02
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RST38hWell, that is because you have a wrong idea of the community15:03
RST38hA lot of people do, in fact, because the more realistic view is such a sad thing to consider :)15:03
Stskeepsi'd like to see the community be a working community, but that's my own personal view :P15:03
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RST38hWell, the problem is that there is no "community".15:04
VDVsxthe problem is that we're very different from most of the OpenSource communities using this kind of management (I guess that was inspired in the Gnome community)15:04
RST38hThere is a bunch of different people, all doing their own things with the phones15:04
leon-what's the latest production firmware?15:05
RST38hTheir paths intersects at maemo.org, tmo, this channel, etc15:05
VDVsxwe're becoming more and more like the android community15:05
RST38hWhen their paths intersect, however briefly, you get impression of the community15:05
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RST38hBut some people move on, other people come, some may not have time to participate in communal mingling, etc15:06
RST38hSo when you talk about community eforts, you should always keep this fluid, unstable, ghost-like model in mind15:07
Stskeepswe should really have been organising the incoming people better though - for those who'd like to contribute15:07
RST38hStskeeps: People do not like organization. The more you organize, enforce rules, etc the more people will be turned away15:07
VDVsxvery true15:07
RST38hGood organization is when the organized do not notice anything out of the ordinary ;)15:07
leon-word :)15:08
RST38hRemember what happened when ITT became TMO?15:08
RST38hAnd all that changed was the domain name and the fucking layout15:08
StskeepsRST38h: still, for those who want to contribute and work together to make something bigger, it should be possible to set up a mini project for doing so15:09
Stskeepsand for those mini projects that require the time of paid contributors or adjustments to maemo.org, council should be in over to help allocate resources for accomplishing it15:11
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Stskeepsand hence dynamically making direction of efforts15:11
Stskeepsthat is really what facilitation should be like, helping making things possible :P15:12
* Stskeeps wonders where the civilization style 'revolution' button is15:12
ifreqpuuh15:14
RST38hStskeeps: Ah, if n people would like to work jointly, they will, without any external organization15:14
RST38hStskeeps: humans are small pack animals, they organize pretty well in groups <515:14
StskeepsRST38h: agreed, and there's no need for it to be. but if it requires shared resources (employees, web space, passwords, whatever, decisions), these have to be allocated to them15:15
RST38hStskeeps: Now, if the council takes some real efforts to fix the maemo.org snafu, that would be waaaaaaaaay appreciated15:15
RST38hStskeeps: Because they way it is now, maemo.org services actively PREVENT people from working together15:16
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StskeepsRST38h: it's slowly getting out of the snafu, but yeah15:17
RST38hStskeeps: people also tend to find their own web space, version control systems, etc15:17
StskeepsRST38h: agreed, was just examples15:17
RST38hStskeeps: So, the least the council can do is to make maemo.org resources competitive with other resources out there15:17
lcukis the meeting happening in here then15:18
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RST38hi.e. autobuilder working 24/7, instant page reloads, instant status changes15:18
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RST38hreasonable UI for browsing packages15:18
Stskeepslcuk: nah, this is just discussion15:18
RST38hwell organized documentation page (how old is this issue? ;))15:18
ShadowJKlol15:18
RST38hWell organized news page15:19
ShadowJKit's http, it needs a browser, it'll never be instant15:19
RST38h(and I have some suggestions on that)15:19
RST38hShadowJK: By instant I mean <10 seconds15:19
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ShadowJKright :)15:19
lcukajax!15:19
RST38hShadowJK: Right now, it is 2-3 minutes to reload the damn page + 1-3 hours for the package status to change15:19
Stskeepshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Objective:Best_community_for_mobile_Linux_innovation15:19
lcukweb2.0 autobuilder15:19
lcukwith shiny things15:19
fluxshadowjk, AJAX server side push \o/15:19
Stskeepslcuk: it's called OBS15:20
Stskeeps:P15:20
RST38hlcuk: That is exactly the opposite to what I would do :)15:20
ShadowJKSometimes I think rms hasb the right idea when he emails people asking them to download a webpage for him15:20
lcukwhen obs builds mplayer ill accept it15:20
lcukits a big problem15:20
RST38hStskeeps: For some reason people tend to think that they can solve things through technology15:20
tybolltShadowJK: Please say you were being ironic... :-|15:20
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StskeepsRST38h: ever seen OBS? grab an account on build.opensuse.org15:20
RST38hStskeeps: Hence we have Midgard, SB, Ajax, etc15:20
* lcuk waves @ dnaumov 15:21
lcukdneary too15:21
* RST38h is not grabbing any new accounts, sorry15:21
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Stskeepsmeh, alright15:21
* Stskeeps grabs screenshot15:21
dnearylcuk, No I don't15:21
ShadowJKtybollt: well atleast with email you dont sit around waiting for immediate response afterwards ;)15:21
RST38hStskeeps: The current problems should be resolved on social level + by fixing current infrastructure, even at the cost of dropping the badly broken parts15:21
RST38hStskeeps: Throwing more software kludges at them is going to make them worse15:22
lcukthe autobuilders got updated didnt they?15:22
Gadgetoid_mbpRocks'n'Diamonds now running on my n900... kinda15:22
lcukand from submit to accept was <3 mins someone was saying15:22
lcukor was that just fluke cos of an empty queue15:22
RST38hlcuk: Try promoting a package to -Testing15:22
RST38hlcuk: See how long it will take you15:22
StskeepsRST38h: this comes with organisational change too though15:22
lcukRST38h, yeah that step is harsh15:23
RST38hlcuk: Try voting for a package. Try voting for a news item. Try finding your package in the Extras-testing package list.15:23
lcukthe whole packages interface is when i noticed it went slower15:23
RST38hStskeeps: I do not know and do not care HOW this will come15:23
RST38hStskeeps: I just know that it SHOULD come in order for this bunch of people to thrive15:23
StskeepsRST38h: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/obs1.png , http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/obs2.png15:24
RST38hStskeeps: Well, it is nice littl eimage15:24
ShadowJKMaybe voting-doesn't-work-at-all-through-http should be documented somewhere... or on a bugtracker... or maybe the interface shouldn't give you a button to vote over http, which doesn't work...15:24
RST38hStskeeps: I cannot judge how well it actually works though15:24
RST38hShadowJK: You know what happens with the stuff reported on the bugtrakcer15:25
RST38hShadowJK: For example, remember that huge orange rabbit dropping at Maemo Planet?15:25
ShadowJKlcuk: what's the problem with using obs to build mplayer?15:25
RST38hShadowJK: I reported it at bugzilla months ago. It is still there.15:25
ShadowJKorange rabbit dropping?15:26
StskeepsShadowJK: that was opensuse build service policy (novell)15:26
Stskeepson our own instance this problem wouldn't exist15:26
ShadowJKah15:26
lcukShadowJK, policy against building anything fun15:26
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X-FadeRST38h: Pick battles that are worth fighting. A style element... damn, you must really have a lot of time..15:27
RST38hShadowJK: At the right side, the scroll list handle15:27
RST38hX-Fade: Well, you know it was just one of many items filed15:28
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RST38hX-Fade: Only using it as an example of something trivial, that prpbably takes <15 minutes to fix15:28
X-FadeRST38h: Filing trivial bugs actually slows progress.15:28
dmj726configure: error: Your compiler does not follow the C++ specification for temporary object destruction order.15:28
dmj726I'm getting this error, and I'm not sure why?15:28
RST38hX-Fade: Well, trivial or not, it is still an orange rabbit dropping :)15:28
ShadowJKthe right hand navigation menu covering package descriptions is cute too, but such things seem way too common, also outside of maemo.org for me to care much about..15:29
X-FadeRST38h: I'll take a .css which works with all our services.15:29
tybolltMFE wizards around here? Can you coerce it into _only_ alerting for messages in the inbox?15:29
RST38hX-Fade: Mmm?15:30
RST38hX-Fade: Why do you need a single .css?15:30
StskeepsX-Fade: btw, is there a list of the cvs/svn/git's of the various maemo.org services?15:30
Stskeepsif anyone did want to contribute15:30
RST38hAnd why is that orange thing a part of .css at all?15:30
lcuka map15:30
X-FadeStskeeps: most of it is in maemo2midgard svn on garage15:30
lcukStskeeps, its something the distmaster would start off isnt it15:30
StskeepsX-Fade: thanks15:31
Gadgetoid_mbpHow do I hack an app into the maemo5 apps menu, can launch from the terminal but no keyboard input gets redirected to the app itself15:31
RST38hX-Fade: Several people actually wanted to help with the web site15:31
StskeepsX-Fade: we should probably put that on wiki in contribution somewhere15:32
RST38hX-Fade: Maybe you can let some of them tweak a few things here and there?15:32
TomaszDcome on guys, "Cellular Modem Control Buttons" needs one more freaking vote to get into Extras, please vote http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/cell-modem-ui/0.3-0/15:32
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TomaszDStskeeps, I haven't seen one vote from you, do you not test the apps you download? :P15:33
StskeepsTomaszD: to be honest my n900 is generally so messed up my bug reports would often be unreproducible15:33
ShadowJKalthough, maemo.org works much better than www.nokia.fi that I tried visiting yesterday. It loaded the page, then it made the page 50% darker, then a big bright rectangle appeared in the middle. The rectangle was eventually filled with helpful tips/adverts how to use Comes With Music. There was no way to get rid of this rectangle, and the links that were not covered by the box, on the actual page, did not work.15:34
TomaszDStskeeps, how about a basic backup, reflash, deploy backup, test apps15:34
TomaszDbesides you have more than one device15:34
Stskeepserr.. no15:34
Stskeepsi have one device15:34
lcukShadowJK, did you click outside the box!15:34
TomaszDah, ok15:34
ShadowJKlcuk, yes15:35
tybolltTomaszD: scuse a silly user such as me - but how is it different from the "offline mode" given by default?15:35
StskeepsX-Fade: if anyone asks in the future, the preferred way to get patches for website is through bugzilla?15:35
TomaszDtybollt, you disable the 3G modem, the phone part, wifi and bluetooth stays on, so it's a tablet mode, not offline mode, for saving power.15:35
tybolltcheck15:36
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tybolltare you the maintainer? I think it might be worth elaborating on that in the description actually.15:36
TomaszDnah, I'm just browsing through the QA list to get some movement15:36
X-FadeStskeeps: Yes, but if the person is someone who can continue to fix things and the fixes are of a decent quality, I won't mind giving svn accees.15:36
StskeepsX-Fade: alright15:36
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TomaszDtybollt, but the description is quite clear actualy15:37
StskeepsX-Fade: is packages interface in a SCM anywhere yet? (couldn't find it)15:37
Stskeeps(sorry for all the questions, just collecting info)15:37
tybolltTomaszD: wait yes15:37
tybolltTomaszD: doh, sorry15:37
tybolltTomaszD: mea culpa15:37
X-FadeStskeeps: Styling in maemo2midgard, package interface is upstream in midgard's svn.15:37
TomaszDwell, test it, vote for it, let's get some movement in extras15:37
* Jaffa goes to vote for it having tested it15:38
tybolltI think "sign up/register" is the first part (for me :)15:38
TomaszDyou do that then15:38
FIQhm15:38
X-FadeStskeeps: http://trac.midgard-project.org/browser/branches/ragnaroek/midcom/org.maemo.packages15:38
FIQthe table mode..15:38
TomaszDalso, call forwarding applet needs two more votes guys http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/callforwarding/0.3.1/15:39
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FIQi've heard it was available on firmware prereleases, but not the official and some app turned it back?15:39
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TomaszDFIQ, yes, so vote for that app http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/cell-modem-ui/0.3-0/ :)15:39
JaffaFIQ: Correct.15:39
StskeepsX-Fade: thanks!15:40
StskeepsX-Fade: making a wiki page15:40
FIQi haven't an account or device yet, but i will get it soon. :p15:41
FIQjust waiting for a new stock in some web sellers coming 13th jan15:41
FIQand then, i can finally play with the N900. :d15:42
FIQs/d/D/15:42
infobotFIQ meant: anD then, i can finally play with the N900. :d15:42
FIQ???15:42
FIQw/e15:42
RST38hBTW, could someone vote for Javispedro's build of Vulture's Eye?15:42
hrwgosh... I hate maemo filemanager15:42
tybollt?15:43
hrwno way to enter /home/user/modules/ dir15:43
tybolltit has xterm, what more can you ask?15:43
hrwtybollt: ;D15:43
RST38hhrw: As soon as you stop calling it filemanager it becomes ok :)15:43
hrwRST38h: sure, but it is named filemanager15:43
FIQhm15:43
RST38hhrw: By mistake, I am sure :)15:44
FIQi've heard of KDE for maemo, is it any progress at all on that?15:44
hrwFIQ: for maemo or for nxxx?15:45
FIQmaemo5/N90015:45
X-FadeFIQ: Qt4.5 is on the device by default15:45
StskeepsX-Fade: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community/Contribute15:45
X-FadeFIQ: Qt 4.6 is in extras-devel15:45
FIQk15:45
hrwmy god... running kde under maemo5 would be disaster15:45
X-FadeKDE however, nah ;)15:46
StskeepsX-Fade: could be good in order to delegate work to volunters15:46
hrwrunning it instead of maemo5 UI would be better15:46
RST38hPlease, vote for XChat here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xchat/2.8.6-maemo14/15:46
X-FadeStskeeps: Sure, everything is out in the open anyway.15:46
StskeepsX-Fade: yeah, it's just difficult to chase down15:46
RST38hTomaszd: I will change the control file lines next time I reboot into Linux.15:46
TomaszDRST38h, you're the xchat maintainer? thanks :)15:48
tybolltFIQ: really? kde4 running on the n900? :D15:48
TomaszDI'm looking through the extras-testing vote count and there are many apps which are on the verge of being accepted into Extras, it's just that very few people test and vote15:49
ifreqgive app which to use for voting15:50
FIQi don't know if it's true, but somewhere i heard that.. for about 1-2months ago, and in a _very_ early stage, don't heard anything about it after that15:50
RST38hTomaszD: Proposal to lower threshold from 10 to 5 votes has been agreed upon but never implemented.15:50
TomaszDalright, first of all this needs only a couple of votes http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/callforwarding/0.3.1/15:50
FIQ@tybollt15:50
* RST38h has not installed this one15:50
leon-what have I done now, reflashed the device and phone functionalities and 3g are crippled :)15:51
TomaszDRST38h, who is at fault?15:51
hrwshit... looks like my DDP n900 has something fucked with keyboard backlight15:51
X-Fadehrw: did you enable r-d mode?15:52
leon-is the US 42.11 pr firmware simlocked or something like that?15:52
TomaszDthe maemo-geolocation plugin needs three votes. It works fine. http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/maemo-geolocation/1.1.3-1/15:52
RST38hTomaszD: Ask either X-Fade or jeremiah15:52
RST38hTomaszD: May also want to ask VDVsx15:52
lcukhrw, ummm sure you are not in ummmm dev mode in the flasher (forget actual name)15:53
RST38hyea, voting for geolocation15:53
hrwX-Fade: good question15:53
TomaszDX-Fade, jeremiah, VDVsx, why is this bottleneck of 10 votes required, when 5 votes were agreed upon?15:53
lcukthats it X-Fade lol15:53
X-FadeTomaszD: Server work comes first. Then we'll work on improvements first.15:54
X-Fade- 2nd first ;)15:54
TomaszDthe voting spree should continue though, there is a simple game from Maemo 4, crazy parking, which works, is a bit quirky with notifications, but works fine, just like on the n810, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/crazyparking/0.2.7-3/15:54
TomaszD^ 2 votes required15:54
RST38h"Game not started" bug?15:55
TomaszDyeah15:55
ShadowJKi thought that was in the ... game framework thingy..15:55
RST38hThis is not Crazy Parking's fault15:55
TomaszDok then, vote :)15:55
RST38hShadowJK: Exactly15:55
FIQgame15:55
FIQnow i lost again..15:56
RST38hTomaszD: note that it takes minutes to vote for a single app15:56
RST38hTomaszD: So even voting for them is kinda painful and time consuming15:56
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ShadowJK(and it doesn't work on http)15:56
TomaszDRST38h, no it doesn't, just click to vote and move on, leave the page loading, you can open multiple tabs...15:56
RST38hShadowJK: Works via http for me15:56
ShadowJKdidn't work for me :/15:56
RST38hTomaszD: You know what? You can duplicate VDVsx's idea15:57
RST38hTomaszD: He has done a really simple thing15:57
TomaszDwhich is?15:57
RST38hTomaszD: He collected all direct voting page URLs for packages he considered fit and posted them as one big list to tmo15:57
RST38hTomaszD: Worked like a charm15:57
ShadowJKLOL15:58
TomaszDpeople are that lazy?15:58
RST38hBecause navigating the current package interface is like thawing permafrost15:58
TomaszDI mean I shouldn't be surprised, the interface is slow, testing takes time15:58
ShadowJKI only do it for specific apps I used on N8x0 that I'm interested in ;)15:58
RST38hTomaszD: Partially that but mainly because the current web interface pretty much DOES NOT WANT you to use it15:58
VDVsxTomaszD, I'm also proposing a team of testers in this month sprint, you seem a good candidate :p15:58
MuhviHi, do you have any ideas if the default mediaplayer in N900 has any easier ways to make playlists15:58
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RST38hTomaszD: A lot of people are already using these apps just not voting15:59
ShadowJKbtw, from maemo.org, how do you navigate to packages?15:59
RST38hAhahha15:59
RST38hthere is no link :)))15:59
TomaszDthis is a sad situation15:59
RST38hShadowJK: maemo.org/packages is not accessible from maemo.org via links15:59
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* RST38h promptly facepalms15:59
TomaszDI think I discovered the voting process by chance15:59
FIQdownloads i think?15:59
FIQseems logical15:59
ShadowJKTomaszD, me too15:59
RST38hFIQ: only Downloads is for Extras16:00
ShadowJKBut I was wondering how many steps away from maemo.org it is. Whether you can find a path through clicking wiki first or whatever16:00
RST38hBUT, this made me think of something16:00
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RST38hShadowJK, TomaszD, VDVsx: Got a crazy idea.16:00
TomaszDRST38h, probably something revolutionary, like a link to the voting pages from maemo.org?16:01
VDVsxI also proposing "testing app of the day"16:01
VDVsxmaemo.org front page16:01
RST38hTomaszD: Not revolutionary at all16:01
VDVsxwith the required warning of course16:01
TomaszDRST38h, I was being sarcastic...16:01
TomaszD:)16:01
TomaszDAnyway, I'm up for the testing team or whatever the name16:01
TomaszDjust contact me when anything happens16:01
RST38hShadowJK, TomaszD, VDVsx: We can take PackRat, install it to a server outside of Maemo.org and modify it a little bit to crawl and display extras-testing, extras, and extras-devel packages16:02
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RST38hFurthermore, I can add to each Extras-testing a direct link to vote for it16:02
RST38h(insert "package" before "a direct link")16:02
TomaszDRST38h, have you checked the latest AppWatch application? the UI is a bit weird (almost invisible scroll bars) but it's really really nice for sorting and displaying repos16:02
TomaszDit would be cool if people could vote directly from that app16:03
VDVsxRST38h, I'm not familiar with packrat have to check it16:03
RST38hTomaszD: Yes, it is pretty nice but strikes me as a bit of overkill16:03
RST38hVDvsx: http://ageofikon.info/packrat/16:03
TomaszDoverkill... maybe not, it's just a power user's tool, not a user's tool16:03
RST38hTomaszD: A web interface should probably suffice and can be used to show more information16:03
RST38hTomaszD: Also, you can change and evolve web interface waaaay faster than an app16:04
TomaszDbefore that happens, please vote for the new bluetooth-dun package which doesn't require to reboot the phone to enable the service any more http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/bluetooth-dun/1.0-5/16:04
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TomaszDI think no matter what we try, there needs to be a more authoritarian approach to this process, like a few dedicated people with more power in their hands, I don't know what power exacty, but maybe blocking an app from getting into Extras, because people stupidly voted for a broken version, etc16:06
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RST38hTomaszD: Making things more authoritarian rarely helps.16:07
RST38hBut I guess you already know that :)16:07
TomaszDyeah, I'm just thinking about it, I guess a better, faster web service would do the trick16:08
RST38hexactly. with a somewhat lower threshold.16:08
TomaszDthere's also a conflict of interest, we don't want people to break their devices, but we do want them to test16:08
tabMonkeyI like the idea of having an application to do the voting / commenting with. Atilla's appwatch gets the data anyway, but he said earlier that he's hesitant to implement that until the servers get fixed16:08
TomaszDexpose the link to extras-testing making it easier to install the repo, or not.16:08
RST38hTomaszD: Well, unless you give people something in exchange (money, candy, sexual satisfaction), it won't work16:09
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RST38hTomaszD: Even a satisfying thump! sound when voting will suffice16:10
TomaszDmany people are adventerous enough without having to give them anything in exchange16:10
RST38hTomaszD: Oh no16:10
RST38hTomaszD: They will install anything just to see how it works, this is their rewards16:10
RST38hTomaszD: But by voting you are not getting any reward16:10
TomaszDthat's true.16:11
RST38hYou already installed it, it works, why vote?16:11
TomaszDI guess you don't even get karma, do you?16:11
RST38hno idea... you probably do get some karma16:11
TomaszDwhat I've noticed is that reporting bugs gives massive amounts of karma, maybe voting should give people more karma...16:12
TomaszDI don't know16:12
pupnik_one thing i can do is sound editing16:12
TomaszDI'm running out of ideas.16:12
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pupnik_why care about karma?16:13
pupnik_have fun, do stuff16:13
TomaszDsome people do, so why not tap that source16:13
tybolltpupnik_: because popular TV series teach us that if you don't... you get run over by a car the minute after you score the million dollar lottery ticket.16:13
TomaszD*tap into that source16:14
TomaszDit came out all wrong ;)16:14
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pupnik_heh16:14
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TomaszDalright, one last app for today, 2 more votes, GPXView, personally I don't use it, but it does work fine, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/gpxview/0.9.1/16:15
RST38htybollt: popular videogames teach us that you get 5000 karma for hitting 5 low-karma humans in a row though16:15
timeless_mbpandre__: ping16:15
pupnik_i am de-suckifying a game atm16:15
andre__timeless_mbp, pong16:15
pupnik_very fun16:16
tybolltRST38h: >:)16:16
timeless_mbpandre__: so about that browser select bug16:16
KamuiWrkanyone using vpnc16:16
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timeless_mbpdid you confirm it w/ 41, 42 or 51?16:16
KamuiWrkis it capable of pptp or only ipsec16:16
timeless_mbpbecause w/ things after 42 i'm not experiencing what the reporter described16:16
wiretappedis there some way to see the raw message or at least the full headers in modest?16:18
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timeless_mbp(7669)16:19
andre__timeless_mbp, i can confirm in 53-116:19
tabMonkeywiretapped: ~/.modest/cache/mail/imap/name of account/folders/INBOX16:19
tabMonkeyyou should be able to view them there16:19
tabMonkeyif nowhere else16:20
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timeless_mbpandre__: hrm16:21
timeless_mbpwhen i tap in 51 it doesn't jump me16:21
timeless_mbpand it doesn't jump in my colleague's things either16:21
wiretappedtabMonkey: awesome, thanks! was hoping for a better way, but that works16:22
tabMonkeynp16:22
andre__timeless_mbp, did you scroll down to "Browser"? did you tap it?16:22
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timeless_mbpyes. yes.16:24
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timeless_mbpah16:25
timeless_mbptype bro16:25
timeless_mbpthen scroll to Browser, tap it, tap done16:25
timeless_mbpso i can accidentally work around it16:25
timeless_mbpbecause the "logical path" gets me to where i kinda want to go16:25
timeless_mbpthe "fast logical path" fails as described16:26
leon-is it std procedure that the sim is not working on the first boot, if you flash the mmc stuff?16:26
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andre__timeless_mbp, well, don't type. scroll ;-)16:29
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timeless_mbpandre__: "workaround available"16:30
RST38hOh. N900 hung.16:30
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RST38hHehe, MediaBox has no exit button :16:44
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RST38hUninstall =(16:46
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slonopotamusexit buttons are for dweebs16:46
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RST38hslonopotamus: thus uninstalling...16:46
RST38hon the positive side, the mediabox UI is somewhat more clear now16:47
leon-has anybody else experienced the sort of an issue that the after flashing the device will just not get any network and does not even ask for pin code?16:47
danielwilmsleon- which version did you have before and to which version did you flash??16:48
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leon-well, I had the most current firmware from R&D flashed on the device, but as that didn't work with the nokia-binaries I reflashed back to 42-1116:50
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leon-if I now reflash the thing back to the current R&D it works ok, but 42-11 is a no go16:50
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tekojoleon- you can't downgrade after going beyond a certain week16:56
tekojounless you are inside Nokia and get professional help :-)16:57
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leon-tekojo, ok..16:58
Wolfiepeople get professional help in nokia? whoa16:58
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leon-well, I'll just cope with the latest and the greatest then16:58
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tekojoWolfie we do have the people who really know and then us normal people16:59
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Wolfietekojo: i think you missed my quip, but that's ok.17:00
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jiajiahow is going with chinese input does anyone know if it is now availible17:01
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tekojono, I decided to ignore it :-)17:01
Wolfiewell done, then17:02
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Stskeepsjiajia: there's maemo-scim project i think17:02
Wolfieso, have i understood correctly, that any firmware updates for n900 must be flashed, instead of doing a normal linuxy kernel update?17:03
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CaesiumOTA updates should come through app manager as I understand it17:04
Wolfiei guess what i'm asking is, must the firmware be updated with a computer, or can it be done over the air with only the phone itself?17:04
Wolfieright17:04
Caesiumwhether 1.1 will be OTA is another question :)17:04
Wolfiegotcha. thanks.17:05
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lardmanhi chaps17:08
lardman& chapesses17:08
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SpeedEvilI'm not sure I like the unable to downgrade firmware thing. I hope that's a bug to be fixed.17:09
RST38hchaps, chapesses, and chaperones17:10
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lardmanSpeedEvil: I wonder if it's because the new image contains the starts of the DRM stuff?17:11
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FIQHow long does a battery last for you on heavely (i pwnd at spelling) use?17:13
lcuklardman, more likely because backwards and forwards compatability is harder to deal and much less of an issue17:13
lardmanlcuk: who knows17:14
lcukat least from old style experience17:14
fragmentFIQ: I guess you mean N900?17:14
CaesiumFIQ: constant backlight and wifi on? less than a day17:14
FIQsay that I have microB, Xchat and some msn application running, how long would it last?17:15
FIQ(that's the common apps i use on my current)17:15
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fragmentFIQ: 3G connection on all the time?17:15
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matthew-FIQ: a few hours17:18
matthew-(4-5)17:18
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fralshmm, you know you go too long between implementing and testing when the cat falls asleep on your n90017:19
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vesa3g is a real batteryhogger atleast here. even wifi uses less. with no active connections you can get 2-3 days easily (light web-browsing/rss/whatnot)17:23
vesaactive = always on i mean17:23
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RST38hArkenoi: so, are we finally getting 3g or not, btw?17:23
* mgedmin is a real battery-hogger, drains his n900 twice a day17:23
RST38hah, the vampire17:23
RST38hmgedmin: btw, vote: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xchat/2.8.6-maemo14/17:24
mgedminwas the "crashes on settings" bug fixed?17:24
RST38hyes17:24
RST38hand the power drain too (I hope)17:24
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RST38hto test the latter, either delete ~/.xchat2 or change lagometer value to 017:25
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fralsonly diff between 13 and 14 conf is the lagometer? :)17:29
SpeedEvilxchat seems to use about 14 min/day or so of CPU in a busyish channel17:31
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Stskeepsbergie: random question, will brainstorm be having a search?17:32
Arkenoirst38h: mts, yes. already seen it. megafon - not yet17:33
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RST38hArkenoi: Where? WHERE?17:33
bergieStskeeps: yes17:33
Stskeepsbergie: good, was going nuts about not being able to find it :P17:34
Arkenoirst38h: yesterday seen it at netname on Sukharevskaya17:34
bergieStskeeps: but before that, googling with inurl: is a good start :-)17:34
ArkenoiMTS also claims it has continuous converage for metro circular line17:34
Arkenoitunnels as well17:34
Stskeepsbergie: will be moving the open sourcing queue to brainstorm so having tags or something to keep them together with string would be nice :P17:35
ceda_Nokia n97 had a feature that tested the WLAN connection for a capture page (You need to enter a code to access the network: [    ])17:35
ceda_I've not seen anything like that on the N900/Maemo 517:35
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cedaI tried to find a bugzilla for it but failed to find one17:36
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil, don't forget about wakeups17:36
bergieStskeeps: can you post a ticket about that? Should be easy17:36
bergieStskeeps: openness stuff could be a category too17:37
RST38hArkenoi: Have not seen it at the ring line17:37
SpeedEvilShadowJK: of course17:39
cedahttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5723 is a severe version of this :P17:39
povbot`Bug 5723: N900 multiple crashes that led to device failure with wireless network that redirects to a login page17:40
SpeedEvilShadowJK: however the first is easily measured, the cost of the second needs to be measured with external equipment, or with a rundown test that's complex to get right17:40
RST38hcead: Ah I know this one17:40
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RST38hceda: It renders IM plugins unusable until you restart them17:41
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Stskeepsbergie: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767617:44
povbot`Bug 7676: Add 'Open sourcing' category to brainstorm17:44
bergiethx17:45
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* TomaszD is thinking of trying to port wesnoth17:46
TomaszDshouldn't be too hard (famous last words)17:46
* SpeedEvil is thinking of trying to - instead of doing something sensible - porting nethack for 34 keys.17:47
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* lardman is cursing material noise17:48
KamuiWrknethack is the best game of all time17:48
KamuiWrknext to maybe angband ;)17:48
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X-FadeTomaszD: Wasn't wesnoth already porte?17:48
KamuiWrkwesnoth, I think is still only running on the older tablets17:48
TomaszDX-Fade, I'm looking through the garage project17:49
X-FadeHmm I really have packetloss on my keyboard ;)17:49
fiferboyTomaszD: Someone is working on Wesnoth now17:49
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fiferboyTomaszD: I did a bit of work on a Diablo port, and it really isn't too difficult (especially with Glenn's patches in garage)17:49
cedaRST38h: it also hans modest until some timeout. It also tells me "Exchange server not responding" - basically I get loads of messages instead of a browser :/17:49
TomaszDwhat's there to work on? The worst screw-up you can do is actually release all the debs to the user category instead of having one package and hiding everything else17:49
SpeedEvilX-Fade: crumbs are not packets.17:50
TomaszDlike the retarded gcompris sound modules in the user category17:50
X-FadeSpeedEvil: Don't know the status. Just saw some activity..17:50
cedaRST38h: have you seen any bug reports on this? I'm about to file a new one having searched for some time now17:50
fiferboyTomaszD: It needs a bit of maemo-izing on the debian packages, the rules file needs some changes, and there are some SDL tweaks that can be beneficial17:50
an0therb0xhello, where can i get a list of available repositories for the N900 ?17:50
timeless_mbpX-Fade: ping17:50
timeless_mbpi'm looking at the export contact dialog and seeking help17:51
TomaszDfiferboy, I'll make sure to steal what I can17:51
TomaszD:)17:51
cedaan0therb0x: repository.maemo.org has a list somewhere17:51
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Don't look at me? :)17:51
fcrozathmm, my n900 rebooted while idle17:51
fcrozat(I just noticed the nokia logo )17:51
timeless_mbpX-Fade: i just want someone who speaks English to lend a sympathetic ear17:51
cedaan0therb0x: http://repository.maemo.org/ is what I was thinking of17:52
fiferboyTomaszD: The guy working on it is the other person listed on the garage page (besides Glenn and I)17:52
an0therb0xceda: thanks17:52
fcrozat32wd_to17:52
TomaszDfiferboy, I only see diablo-specific patches17:52
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TomaszDsome scratchboxisms and a linking problem patch17:53
fiferboyTomaszD: Yeah, he hasn't put anything in the repo yet - but you could email him and find out if he has made any progress17:53
TomaszDfiferboy, non-public efforts don't count, I guess I'll e-mail him if I fail ;)17:53
TomaszDfiferboy, and you can do one thing for me, i18n-ize your widgets already! :P17:54
fiferboyTomaszD: True.  Wesnoth could definitely do with an optification17:54
fiferboyTomaszD: Sure, after I get more than 5 hours sleep in a stretch I will :P17:54
TomaszDfiferboy, not only optification, but a clever way to package it, so it doesn't flood the app manager17:55
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TomaszDI even saw some gstreamer plugins in the user category, I'm not sure if people know what they're doing..17:55
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fiferboyTomaszD: There should be at least the main package, data package (maybe data and sound together?), and a giant campaign package?17:56
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fiferboyTomaszD: I assume you don't like having thirty different campaign packages all separate17:56
TomaszDfiferboy, I was thinking about normal users who don't care about packages, and release wesnoth-all as the public one17:56
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TomaszDhide the rest17:56
timeless_mbpandre__: ping17:56
timeless_mbphttps://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Maemo%20Official%20Applications17:56
timeless_mbpThe Email application "Modest" (used since Maemo 4) (Note, please file Exchange bugs under Synchronization)17:57
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timeless_mbpwhere is 'synchronization'?17:57
fiferboyTomaszD: Probably not a bad option for the N900, with lots of space in opt17:57
timeless_mbpoh, it's in platform17:57
TomaszDyep, as long I can make optification work, which I think is doable, wesnoth-all should be the only one visible17:57
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fiferboyTomaszD: Should be easy - just have wesnoth-all in user and the others not in user17:58
TomaszDfiferboy, there are no troubles with right-clicking btw? (as in, useless without right click)17:58
TomaszDfiferboy, indeed17:58
fiferboyTomaszD: I think it can be played without right-click, there are some keyboard shortcuts and menus that should do everything17:59
TomaszDok then17:59
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TomaszDdinner first though...17:59
fiferboyTomaszD: If you start with the latest debian stable packages there might be some library version issues17:59
* fiferboy is thinking of libboost particularly17:59
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TomaszDfiferboy, I'll try the next best thing and downgrade the versions and see what happens18:00
fiferboyTomaszD: Sounds good.  Give me a shout if you want some help18:00
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TomaszDfiferboy, thanks18:01
bibUSSD il possible with N900 ?18:01
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* RST38h promptly curses libboost and everyone who worked on it18:01
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cedaRST38h: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767818:02
povbot`Bug 7678: connection to wlan with login page should launch browser18:02
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RST38hceda: I am afraid the bug reporter is asking too much18:03
RST38hbut yea, this is how it should behave18:03
TomaszDtoo much? if it works in symbian, does it mean that maemo is an inferior platform?18:04
RST38hDunno, I just feel it will never be implemented18:04
TomaszDI hope Nokia devs don't share your feelings18:04
TomaszD:)18:04
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cedaRST38h: Well, the reporter is me and going in/out of the office at least twice a day makes this phone pretty annoying (since it's missing this feature)18:09
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cedaI'd be happy with a workaround (a python-script listening to some dbus event/signal)18:10
vpvthe maemo repos seem to be really slow...18:10
SpeedEvilMeh.18:10
Stskeepsvpv: what's your location and what kind of response are you getting?18:11
SpeedEvilY'all know that I've been wondering about USB host for a while?18:11
SpeedEvilSeems very likely it's a solder job to fix it. And not an easy one either.18:11
SpeedEvil:/18:11
RST38hceda: I simply leave th ephone at the officc18:11
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vpvStskeeps: I'm using them from Finland via my wlan, I added fremantle tools and installed htop, "apt-get update" took quite a while but actually installing the package seemed to be a bit faster.18:12
vpvand seems like it wasn't cpu bound, I have the system load applet running18:12
luke-jrStskeeps: power abuser18:12
Arkenoimost "login pages" actually are fallback from some authentication standard18:13
cedaRST38h: you don't use a phone out of the office? :)18:13
Arkenoicannot remember its name but the idea is that if you have proper auth client installed you never see a "login page"18:13
Arkenoismartconnect on s60 did support it18:14
cedaArkenoi: well, this WLAN has a CAPTCHA box18:14
RST38hceda: nope, why18:14
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RST38hArkenoi: Not when you are using evil stuff like cell-provider wifi services or Intel guest wifi18:14
cedaRST38h: I use my phone to talk to friends and family, and read RSS feeds on my way home from and to work, ...18:14
RST38hceda: I use it on the way from/to home of course18:15
RST38hjust not during lunch breaks18:15
cedaah :)18:15
pupnik_argh.  segfaults segfaults18:16
Arkenoirst38h: at least golden wifi does support it18:16
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RST38hgolden - maybe18:18
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RST38hArkenoi: stopped at that japanese place yesterday, it had free wifi18:18
RST38hArkenoi: Very convenient =)18:19
Arkenoibtw what is the point of having login page if wifi is free anyways?18:19
mgedmincustomer annoyance18:20
luke-jrfaster speeds?18:20
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RST38hArkenoi: ads, I guess18:21
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cedaI like "356 Kernel lacks IPv6 support" :D18:22
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philoanyone bying an n900 from dell18:23
philothey have a pretty sweet deal18:23
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dmj726morning18:25
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dmj726Unlocked phones connected to Ubuntu boxen are great18:26
TomaszDfiferboy, you said it, libboost problems, tweaking debian/control...18:26
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dmj726n900 + ubuntu netbook = travelling wifi hotspot18:32
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dmj726takes about 2 minutes to setup though18:33
slonopotamusanyone successfully repartitioned n900? got a link with info?18:33
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dmj726slonopotamus: you're refering to making the home folder ext?18:33
dmj726weren't there camera problems?18:34
slonopotamusdmj726, i feel myself very constrained in 256mb rootfs and want to do smth with it18:34
SpeedEvilslonopotamus: you can't18:35
dmj726well that's on its own 256 mb drive18:35
X-Fadeslonopotamus: You can't repartion the root as that physical chip is only 256 ;)18:35
SpeedEvilslonopotamus: / is on a 256M hardware18:35
dmj726exactly18:35
zashwhatsitcalled, unisonfs or somethnig?18:35
slonopotamusthen obvios fix is to move it somewhere else :)18:35
slonopotamusubifs18:35
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Yeah, that is an option.18:36
X-FadeAlthough you probably need a bootmenu for N900 then.18:36
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Hexagoonwhy have a bigger root?18:37
TomaszDfiferboy, around?18:37
Hexagoonall apps should be in /opt/ and all docs in /home/user/MyDocs18:38
dmj726because root has a nasty tendency to fill up if you install non-optified apps18:38
Hexagoonwhy install non optified apps then? ;)18:38
X-FadeWhy not just mount /usr somewhere else?18:38
X-Fadeif you really want to?18:38
TomaszDanyone knows what to do with SDL_mixer has no OGG support!18:38
TomaszDother than disabling sound?18:38
slonopotamusX-Fade, that all just complicates everything.18:39
RST38hyou can probably recompile libsdlmixer18:39
RST38hor whatever it is called18:39
X-FadeTomaszD: Or transcode ;)18:39
SpeedEvildmj726: I've found that reflashing a week ago and reinstalling all my apps - most of them have been optified18:39
ShapeshifterHas imagemagick been packaged for the n900 yet?18:39
TomaszDX-Fade, heh18:39
dmj726SpeedEvil: do you install from devel?18:39
SpeedEvilyues18:41
dmj726okay18:41
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* Arkenoi used "live optifying" script from tmo and found it to be almost perfect solution18:41
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ShadowJKalmost?18:42
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ArkenoiShadowJK, a few minor glitches with application icons and i still don't know if everything gonna be ok after i get system update18:43
RST38hTheme created by18:44
RST38hHave an iGoogle suggestion? Share it at Google Product Ideas18:44
RST38hMobile - Advertising Programs - Business Solutions - Privacy Policy - Help - About Google18:44
RST38h©2010 Google18:44
RST38hOh shit. Sorry.18:44
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AndrewFBlackHello18:46
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ccookeHuh. Even though I can't currently charge it, my n900 is a better phone than my previous one. Damnit.18:50
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RST38hso you couldn't charge your previous one either?18:50
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ccookeRST38h: no, but the n900 gets massively better reception :-)18:52
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luke-jrccooke: if the previous one is a Nokia, the batteries might be compatible18:53
ccookeunfortunately not18:53
ccookebut I'll have a battery charger soon18:54
ccookewell, I will if I don't decide to buy my own n900 early18:54
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* ccooke must find the time to work out who to ask about the n90018:54
luke-jrO.o18:54
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ccookemy maemo summit loaner n900's usb socket has fallen out - this is a known problem.18:55
ccookeI need to find out if Nokia can be persueded to do anything about it, basically18:55
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ccookehell, I'd happily pay to get it fixed (so that I don't have to buy my own n900 *this* month, rather than in April :-)18:56
Xisdibik*jedi mind tricks* you want YOUR n900 now, go buy it18:56
Xisdibik:D18:56
ccookeXisdibik: of course I do. However, I'm trying to avoid it right this moment :-)18:57
Xisdibikavoiding will just make you suffer more :)18:57
RST38hResistance is futile.18:58
RST38hYou will be ass...assi...assi....whacked with the rest of us18:58
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ccookeRST38h:18:59
ccookehey, I've aready bought one...19:00
ccooke(for my wife, who has been swapping batteries with me the last couple of days :-)19:00
leon-hmm, where can one find the hwid code of the n900?19:00
leon-http://vaibhavsharma.wordpress.com/files/2009/08/new-nokia-internet-tablet-3.jpg19:00
lucenthwid?19:00
woglindehm the next epic fail19:01
woglindetelefonmanager dont accept *100#19:01
leon-it seems that it is mentioned under the battery on some devices, but mine doesn't have it19:01
dmj726Is it just me or are there a lot of family members that buy one after seeing the n90019:01
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ccookeleon-: you can get the same information from the Settings applet19:02
lucentdmj726: or the 'droid, if they like Verizon service and are US-based19:02
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leon-ccooke, ok19:02
woglindedmj726 no19:02
ccookeleon-: at the bottom - about, or something19:02
woglindeI dont know much who buyed it19:02
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* ccooke knows of... hmm. Five people who've bought n900s at his instigation19:03
dmj726I just heard that ccooke's wife got one.  My mom got one.19:03
dmj726really?19:03
TomaszDwill I get crucified by Nokia if I upload a replacement package for libsdl-mixer1.2 with ogg support?19:03
woglindeccooke are they all millionairs?19:04
ccookeoh, no. Six. One of those five ended up getting one for their partner19:04
leon-ccooke, no hwid there :o19:04
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ccookewoglinde: No, they all got subsidised deals.19:04
woglindeI never would pay 600 bucks for telephone19:04
leon-only software version, wlan mac, bt address and imei19:04
ccookeleon-: wlan mac is the hwid they've used before19:05
lucentwoglinde: I think similarly, I paid $530 for my N900 and there may or may not be an additional $50 prepaid visa card coming my way for the Ovi Store rebate offered to US buyers19:05
* Arkenoi never owned a telephone that was cheaper than $600 when introduced19:05
lucentthat's the absolute high end of what I would pay for a computer, much less a phone19:05
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lucentit's just squeaking by within reach so I went for it19:05
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Arkenoiactually i never paid more than $600 for a computer, though19:06
dmj726I went for it considering how much we're saving switching to tmobile with unsubsidized phones19:06
ccookefor my wife's, I'm effectively paying about £5 a month more than I did for her last phone, and the n900 was free on that19:06
lucentoh, heh, tmobile... they robo dialed me yesterday at 7am19:07
lucentI was pissed19:07
corecodehaha19:07
corecodecronjob setting phone ringer to silent until 10am?19:07
lucenthow to do that?19:07
lucentwould really like to.... considering I cannot set a ringtone-per-contact19:08
dmj726Me getting one droid is more expensive than my family getting 2 n900s19:08
corecodedunno, but should work19:08
corecodeshould as in "would be good if it did"19:08
corecodehm $550?19:08
corecodeno, $530?  why didn't i see that.  oh well, $550 is okay as well19:09
corecodeat newegg19:09
lucentcorecode: it was amazon, and only for a few hours19:09
corecodeah i see19:09
lucentI had my order with newegg, saw $529.99 at amazon and switched my preorder to amazon without hesitation19:09
corecodemy gf is coming back from the states, so she'll take it with her19:09
corecodeso timely delivery is important19:10
woglindere19:10
woglindeeven 500 I would not pay19:10
woglindeand I fine with prepaid19:10
woglindeso I dont need a contract over 24 months19:10
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corecodethen you don't get a n900 i guess, or?19:11
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woglindeI have one from work19:11
woglinde*g*19:11
woglindebut right its not mine19:11
woglindebut I can use my prepaid card with it19:12
lucentI like to check my web browser based games when I'm on the bus to/from  home and the ski resort, then directly to work19:12
woglindelucent *g*19:12
woglindethe bus has wifi?19:12
lucentno, but I have decent EDGE roaming along the way19:12
lucentif you can call it decent, it works for what I am using it for19:13
lucentthis saves me like 2 hours of sitting at home checking web browser games, every day19:13
lucentmy time is definitely worth $50019:13
woglindelucent I didn talked about the worth19:14
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lucentoh, I did not understand your meaning19:15
woglindeno prob19:16
lucentyou are saying, there was no need to pay 500, because you got your phone paid for by the business?19:16
woglindeno19:16
mecehow's the N900 for playing Travian? I (Luckily) don't play anymore, but I sure would have loved one when I did.19:16
ccookeleon-: ah, now I'm not on the phone, I can see the hwid you mentioned19:16
woglindeI have it to develop some stuff19:16
woglindeand my colleague maybee need it too19:16
lucentmece: I don't know about Travian, the web based games that I am playing now are "Tribalwars" and "Urban Dead", neither requires Flash19:17
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ccookeleon-: you can get that with 'cat /proc/component_version'19:17
leon-ccooke: :)19:17
leon-ok, thanks19:17
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ccookeleon-: the hw-build field there appears to be the same19:17
corecodehow is the voip situation on maemo?19:18
ccookecorecode: skype works. SIP works.19:18
KamuiWrkwow, almost missed out on the Nokia 50$ visa card rebate19:18
TomaszDalright, I got the ball rolling on wesnoth19:18
corecodecute19:18
ccookePeople seem to say that google talk works, but I'm not in the US so I couldn't say.19:18
woglindeTomaszD with gles?19:18
lucentKamuiWrk: Ovi Store isn't available for N900, I included a letter with my submission asking them to please honor it anyways19:19
ccookebut both skype and SIP are working perfectly on mine...19:19
TomaszDwoglinde, gles? this is an sdl game19:19
corecodeccooke: sip is integrated like it is for the e51?19:19
KamuiWrklucent, I noticed, but on the rebate I have it clearly says nokia N90019:19
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ccookecorecode: more integrated, I think19:19
RST38hTomaszD: any hope of getting it into a repo?19:19
woglindetomaszd hm so they are using gl indirectly19:19
corecodeccooke: excellent!19:19
KamuiWrklucent, they better honor it :)19:19
woglindebut you are right19:19
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woglinderemebering of the wesnoth stuff at oe19:20
corecodewhat about jabber?19:20
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ccookecorecode: all voip services use the same dialler, contacts and call list as the cellular calls.19:20
goodwilldoes maemo5 have a less utility in any pf the packages?19:20
TomaszDRST38h, I have to figure out this corporate interest conflict first. I need the sdl mixer to support ogg. The default mixer package does not and is maintained by Nokia. Uploading a package that superseds it with ogg support would be a dick move19:20
goodwillI am not a fan of more19:20
ccookecorecode: jabber's supported out of the box for IM, and uses the same contacts as the voip and SMS - the same app does IM and SMS.19:20
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woglindeTomaszD urgs yes19:21
eijkHi! Can anybody give me a hint where the definition of the symbol selector table (invoked with Fn+Ctrl) is?19:21
corecodeccooke: that's cool19:21
woglindepoor nokia guys19:21
woglindedont like ogg19:21
jebba1TomaszD: nothing in extras can replace a core package. that's the roolz.19:21
corecodeccooke: so i need to work on migrating all my chat contacts to jabber19:21
TomaszDjebba1, I'll try working around this19:21
woglindehi jebba19:21
corecodeccooke: i suppose that app is not opensource19:22
TomaszDbut I don't promise anything19:22
woglindejebba *g* dont worked for debconf19:22
jebba1https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17619:22
povbot`Bug 176: Ogg Vorbis support out of the box19:22
jebba1hhaha19:22
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ccookecorecode: there's a plugin for almost every IM app you like - all using the same address book and IM interface.19:22
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jebba1TomaszD: perhaps could be broken out into separate package. Or a separate repo along the lines of http://rpmfusion.org could be created.19:22
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jebba1it boggles the mind that they wont support ogg.  I can sorta understand mp3, but ogg? wtf is the downside?19:23
corecodeccooke: well i'm still trying to settle on how i keep chat logs19:23
TomaszDjebba1, I don't want a separate package. I'd rather distribute the mixer binary with the game and make the game link against that specific one19:23
woglindeTomaszD hm possible could be to rename the package and install the libs in seperate dir19:23
woglindeTomaszD hm or link staticl19:23
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corecodeccooke: if i have everything through jabber, i can anyways use jabber clients on pc and have all run though the same infrastructure19:23
redeemanjebba1: nokia has previously talked about how ogg(specifically theora) is something they won't support, and don't encourage people to use19:23
woglindefor sdl-mixer19:23
ccookecorecode: My n900, for instance, is connected to a SIP account, skype, gtalk, a second jabber server, aol, icq and yahoo.19:23
ccooke(I'm told msn support works, too, but have heard it's not quite as stable)19:24
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corecodeokay19:24
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jebbaredeeman: ya, and that is mind boggling  ;)   Should support wikipedia audio, for instance.19:25
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redeemanthe people responsible for that at nokia are obviously braindead19:25
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woglinderedeeman yes19:26
Stskeepsjebba: nokia sponsored kulve getting a n900 to make ogg-support package though19:26
simula_is wikipedia audio ogg format?19:26
corecodehuh?  no ogg support?19:26
woglindeStskeeps hm than fix sdl-mixer19:26
simula_there is ogg support, but in one of the other repos :)19:26
woglindeStskeeps can you do it?19:26
Stskeepswoglinde: the problem is that SDL isn't exactly modular it looks like19:26
mececorecode, well you can just install it from the repo. It's just not installed when you get the device.19:27
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corecodeok, still...19:27
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thauta19:28
Stskeepsi still don't understand how people who claim to love freedom wants to push ogg on nokia though. it boggles my mind how freedom can turn into "ship our codec or else", where freedom should mean that nokia is free to not ship ogg19:28
woglindeStskeeps eh we want wesnoth19:29
woglindegive us this freedom19:29
RST38hAFAIK Ogg isn't even free19:29
Stskeepswoglinde: you're more than free to dpkg -i a replacement :P19:29
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woglindeRST38h not?19:29
RST38hGentlemen, if you are using XChat on your N900s and have not voted yet, please do vote here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xchat/2.8.6-maemo14/19:30
woglindeRST38h you want the carma for next device?19:30
RST38hwoglinde: owned by some company, may infringe on patents from other companies19:30
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RST38hwoglinde: But of coooourse19:30
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tybolltRST38h: ugh - OGG isn't free? :-S19:30
* tybollt is confused now19:31
derfRST38h: Every piece of software in existence may infringe on patents from some other company.19:31
RST38htybollt: Let me google for details, a moment19:31
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RST38hderf: there are some specific concerns about ogg19:31
tybolltRST38h: cool, thanks19:31
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lucentI read through the ogg-on-nokia bug, it's kind of wasting the Nokia engineer's time isn't it?19:31
* simula_ thought that was the whole point of ogg19:31
Stskeepsderf: at least we know with the older codecs that they are patent encumbered and you can fix it for a price19:31
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derfRST38h: Then please be specific.19:31
woglindein matters only where patents are holded19:31
hrwhi19:31
tybolltsimula_: exactly... so did I :S19:31
derfStskeeps: That's not tru.e19:31
woglindeor was giveb19:31
derf*true19:31
eijkYes, please look up the details, otherwise, this sounds like FUD to me...19:31
woglindears given19:31
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* Stskeeps gets the popcorn19:31
derfYou know of _some_ patents for the codec.19:32
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tybolltStskeeps: :-P19:32
derfThe MPEG-LA by no means guarantees that they license all the required patents.19:32
derfIn fact they specifically disclaim doing so.19:32
derfThat's why you see things like MS getting sued for shipping MP3.19:32
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woglindeMPEG-LA license are funny anyway19:33
dmj726Ya know, somebody should patent the compound word19:33
jebbaStskeeps: freedom is setting up our own repos to replace the crappy parts that nokia ships and won't allow to be improved  :)19:33
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dmj726To promote innovation in spoken language19:33
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Stskeepsjebba: i'd say we have that :P19:33
woglindefor devices you are royaltiee free if you dont sell more than 100k copies a year19:34
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lucentI'm pretty sure that the issue is Nokia's market position does not see a clear and obvious benefit over their competitor's products to include OggVorbis / OggFLAC by default19:34
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jebbaStskeeps: exactly. There isn't a unified "free" repo yet, but i imagine that is coming soon enough.19:34
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lucentit has very little to do with licensing19:34
jebbalucent: ya, except that it is the most voted for bug in bugzilla...19:34
jebbaso the market is definitely trying to tell them something19:34
tybolltin that respect - granted you can just mod your sources.lis - n900 is pretty damn open compared to the godphone and the robots19:34
lucentjebba: the bugzilla is not the market19:35
jebbaRST38h: Woo hoo! I got to be 10th karma voter for xchat. Well, assuming the fkn thing doesn't just spin for the next day.19:35
Stskeepsalso, there's ogg-support you can add with a install19:35
Stskeepswhat's the harm?19:35
Stskeeps:P19:35
RST38hderf: here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1353119:35
lucentStskeeps: battery life suffers greatly19:35
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Stskeepslucent: actually no19:35
jebbaStskeeps: the harm is in cases like TomaszD points out: no wesnoth or whatever.19:35
Stskeepslucent: hang on19:35
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Stskeepsjebba: we had wesnoth on diablo just fine19:36
Stskeepsafaik19:36
RST38hjebba: it still requires 10 days period before being promoted19:36
Stskeepslook for a solution there19:36
jebbalucent: there were tests about battery. I think in the bug report linked above.19:36
tybolltno harm really, more of a crude awakening... I was certain ogg and flac were entirely free and unencumbered by those silly patents19:36
lucent"free" is not the issue here19:36
jebbatybollt: basically they are as free of patents as it comes in anything.  Hitting spacebar is probably "patented" too.19:37
Stskeepshttp://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/19:37
lucentyou want something out-of-the-box on a device that is being marketed to sell against competitor products that do not have these features desired19:37
SpeedEvilBelieved to be patent free isn't quite the same as obviously being patented.19:37
RST38htybollt: people have patented so much different generic stuff nowadays, that it is almost impossible19:37
lucentwhat's the use to spend time  on implementing them for the first gen product?19:37
RST38hlucent: The point here is that very few users actually want ogg19:38
* lucent :)19:38
RST38hlucent: But these few are very, VERY vocal19:38
RST38hMore or less same as with MMS19:38
tybolltRST38h: so what's the beef here?19:38
ali1234and AT&T 3G support too19:39
lucentI can name products that include OggVorbis/FLAC support, but they are not cellular devices19:39
lucentSanDisk Sansa Fuze is one such product19:39
RST38htybollt: The guys in that forum thread discuss how ogg uses MDCT encoding, which is apparently patented19:39
StskeepsRST38h: ogg out of the box, that is19:39
RST38hStskeeps: yea19:39
Stskeepsi love the freedom that we can add support without issue. that's sufficient for me.19:39
RST38hStskeeps: But not out of the box either. For example, I still have no use for ogg19:40
goodwillah ... I found less19:40
jebbaRST38h: ya, very few users "want ogg", in Nokia: "Dear user, do you want OGG support?"  User: "No".  But if it's phrased like, Nokia: "Dear user, would you like wikipedia audio support?"  User: "Yes, please".   As one example.19:40
tybolltRST38h: ugh :S19:40
lucentRST38h: why do you keep saying ogg, do you mean ogg? do you mean one of the codecs like FLAC or Vorbis or Speex.... ?19:40
tybolltogg is the container right19:41
jebbatybollt: i think we're sorta talking loosely here about ogg*  = flac, vorbis, speex.19:41
tybolltanyway what I mean is ogg/vorbis, ogg/flac as I wrote19:41
RST38hlucent: I mean both Ogg vorbis and Ogg <whatever video thing they have>19:41
jebbatheora/matroska.19:41
RST38hjebba: In my case, the answer will be WHAT?19:42
RST38hWhat wikipedia audio? Who cares?19:42
RST38hlucent: My personal experience with vorbis and theora (matroska too btw) has been horrible19:42
jebbaUh, wikipedia is like the 10th biggest website in the world, and their default audio format is ogg. Lots of pages (e.g. in wikitionary etc) are using ogg more and more.19:42
tybolltWell19:42
RST38hlucent: Stuttering, no rewind/forward, unsynced subtitles, crashing players, hanging players19:42
tybolltYou guys may not remember19:43
tybolltbut a few years back19:43
tybolltwhen mp3 was the new hot hing19:43
jebbaRST38h: i have been using ogg theora video with my N900 fine.19:43
RST38hjebba: "Ah, fuck that..."19:43
jebbalooks *really* good actually.19:43
tru_anyone used a a2dp with the n900?19:43
RST38hjebba: (that was about 10th site in the world of course)19:43
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lucenttybollt: I do remember, in fact have one of those Expanium CD-MP3 players ;P19:43
jebbaRST38h: ya, but its like a no brainer easy to include. Anyway, we'll have a decent repo to replace this stuff within the next 3-4 months i would assume.19:43
tybolltthe assholes (pardon my french)  over at franuhofer institute threatened to sue EVERYBODY for using mp3 which was theirs and theirs only.19:43
tybolltfraunhofer*19:44
RST38hjebba: Assume. But I would suggest against holding your breath19:44
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jebbaoh, i wont hold my breath. I just hope someone else does it  ;)19:44
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TomaszDso guys, what should I do with the sdl mixer ogg thing, I'm not experienced enough with this19:46
jebbaTomaszD: Stskeeps said it was in diablo, perhaps check how it was done there.19:46
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TomaszDjebba, there's a separate package that conflicts with the one in the sdk, and doesn't even work, terribly ugly19:47
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jebbaTomaszD: pastebin it.19:47
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* timeless_mbp sighs19:48
timeless_mbpjebba: so... addressbook export is annoying19:48
TomaszDsomeone uploaded http://maemo.org/packages/view/libsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev19:48
TomaszDthis doesn't work, tried19:48
woglindelol19:49
woglindejebba?19:49
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RST38htomaszd: how about downloading its source and looking at it?19:49
woglindeslow slow maemo.org19:49
* RST38h frankly can't quite understand why ogg requires a separate mixer19:49
woglindeits sdl19:49
woglindemixer19:49
TomaszDRST38h, I don't care about the source, I'm already compiling wesnoth with ogg support here, I've rolled my own sdl mixer with ogg support that actually works19:50
woglindeyou can compile it against different sound stuff19:50
TomaszDI don't want to make it conflict with the standard package19:50
TomaszDthat's just retarded to do19:50
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RST38hTomaszd: Ah :)19:50
timeless_mbpwoglinde: and you can't just configure it to support whatever the system has?19:50
timeless_mbpyah static compilation19:50
woglindetimeless_mbp alreay mentioned it19:51
TomaszDtimeless_mbp, a topic I know nothing about, that's why I need help, I see some linker commands here in the configure --help text19:51
woglindeand TomaszD has it working so topic is theough19:51
woglindethrough19:51
woglindeokay19:51
woglindetill later19:51
woglindeI hope I will be get nx stuff working19:52
TomaszDbut I'd first have to roll a separate working mixer package with ogg support that would work side by side with the crippled one from the sdk19:52
woglindethis evening19:52
RST38hArkenoi: Next gadget: http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/light-blue-optics-unveils-light-touch-a-10-inch-touchscreen-pic/19:52
RST38h;)19:52
samueldrRST38h: woah nice19:53
lucentRST38h: based on the showwx from microvision?19:53
lucentI got to beta test a showwx19:53
lucentit's nice, this concept would work great at short throw distances19:54
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samueldrI can see so many hacking possibilities19:54
TomaszDor ask everyone to put "either/or" deps for every package that uses the mixer...19:54
Arkenoifunny thing, looks quite bulky on the photo though19:54
lucentlarger throw distances would need a big increase in power, more than can be safetly marketed for a portable consumer device19:54
lucentRST38h: best advantage of scanning laser display is the displayed image is always in focus19:55
ali1234TomaszD: can't you just set a "provides" tag or whatever it's called19:56
SpeedEvilLasers do not have zero beamwidth.19:56
RST38hlucent: =))19:56
SpeedEvilA 5mm beam diffracts at a minimum of 0.5 milliradians or so.19:56
RST38hlucent: What is the optimal usable distance for showwx?19:56
SpeedEvilnarrower beams diffract lots more.19:56
homeasvsX-Fade, so, it looks like I can now run scratchbox in arm with that new qemu and succesfully build erlang stuff19:57
homeasvsX-Fade, I'll let you know if I end up having complete packages built with this19:57
lucentRST38h: well, in *total* darkeness, I set up a rear projection display using a cotton shower curtain at about 7ft throw, and the projected image was... let me measure hang on19:57
homeasvsX-Fade, if this works, how do we get it on the builders ?19:57
jebbawoglinde: wogline?19:57
RST38hlucent: That curtain still got burn marks? ;)19:57
lucentRST38h: 80" diagonal19:58
RST38hWhoah19:58
RST38hwanna wanna wanna19:58
lucentit wasn't terribly bright19:58
RST38hbut it is ok, at 80" from such a little thing...19:58
RST38hthrough a layer of cotton too19:58
lucentyep! its size is the huge win for a small studio apartment like mine19:58
lucentplus I didn't even bother to smooth out the curtain much19:59
jebbahomeasvs: ah! erlang in the builder! oh noes!  ;)19:59
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lucentI wish that I'd had a N900 to play with when I beta'd the showwx19:59
homeasvsjebba, well, I meant the new qemu that can build erlang :)19:59
jebbahomeasvs: if you patched up qemu to do it, check the qemu package on maemo.gitorious.org somewhere19:59
RST38hlucent: Actually, I tried N900 playing movies on a 32" LCD flat screen20:00
lucentRST38h: output is okay?20:00
homeasvsjebba, no, I just built that gitorious version to see if it worked20:00
homeasvsjebba, and it does20:00
RST38hlucent: Does not look very good (both PC and BBK DVD player were much better)20:00
jebbahomeasvs:  git://gitorious.org/qemu-maemo/qemu-maemo.git20:00
jebbaah ok20:00
RST38hlucent: But watchable still20:00
homeasvsjebba, so my question is, what needs to happen to replace the builder's version with this new one20:00
timeless_mbpandre__: does 7397 have anything to do w/ browser?20:00
jebbaheh. homeasvs suggest taking that to maemo-devel20:01
jebbamy guess that it won't happen until the infamous "server move" is complete20:01
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lucentRST38h: oh okay, what is the breakout cable, I see one red two yellow20:01
RST38hlucent: I suspect it will look better on a projector, LCD showed too many signal artefacts20:01
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dmj726It doesn't look as good as a dvd (might also be the quality of videos), but it's very handy to connect it to a tv20:01
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RST38hlucent: video/right/left20:01
andre__timeless_mbp, feel free to move it to Multimedia/GStreamer20:02
lucentRST38h: right you are, I have one of those fancy LED Pharox 60W bulbs that is warm white, makes every white colour yellow :P20:02
RST38hlucent: One interesting thing is that N900 feels much slower on the big screen than on its own screen20:02
timeless_mbpandre__: done20:02
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dmj726RST38h: I think it might be slower20:02
timeless_mbpandre__: can i change the description of the mail product to mention the classification for sync too?20:03
RST38hdmj726: What is it doing? Pushing extra pixels to a secondary screen buffer?20:03
SpeedEvillucent: are those the ones witrh no blue output at all?20:03
RST38hOr using memory bandwidth for a TV encoder?20:03
dmj726I know it's not outputing the exact same pixels20:03
TomaszDali1234, that's actually a good idea man20:03
RST38hyea, I have heard that a few times20:03
dmj726Some apps (kmplayer) output different things to eachs creen20:03
lucentSpeedEvil: I don't know about blue. the Pharox 60W would be something I'd replace an incadescant 40w bulb with20:03
andre__timeless_mbp, sure20:04
fiferboyTomaszD: Yeah SDL mixer is another problem :)20:04
TomaszDfiferboy, how about a separate package that Provides the standard SDK one20:04
* RST38h has got a 35W fluorescent20:04
TomaszDwill that tag be respected?20:04
timeless_mbpdone, thanks20:04
fiferboyTomaszD: That is what Glenn did for the OS2008 build, he called it libsdlmixer_onlyoggandwav, or something20:04
RST38hWhich is pretty nice, but it definitely is not bright enough to justify its "like 120W" moniker and also looks like an alien anal probe20:05
TomaszDfiferboy, thanks, I'll try that, he already provided a package for fremantle, but it doesn't work at all, I'll roll my own this evening20:05
fiferboyTomaszD: I never had luck with his package either20:05
lucentRST38h: noted.20:05
TomaszDbbl food20:05
fiferboyTomaszD: It might be he changed something other than just the depend20:06
lucentCFLs end up in the wastebin at every workplace I've been to20:07
lucentit's a big heavy metals hazard20:07
RST38hOh well20:07
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* RST38h kinda suspect that CFLs are on the low end of the hazard range where he lives20:07
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lucentRST38h: oh, I did not mention, I work in a movie theater20:07
jebbaanyone using sbdmock or similar autobuilders? I'm going to set up sbdmock unless there is something better.20:07
lucentI tried the show wx on a cinema screen :P20:08
* jebba goes to read old thread started on this hehe20:08
RST38hlucent: <hate> + <envy>20:08
lucentthe throw is about perfect, but it's not bright enough and our emergency exit sign's overcast overpowers it20:08
RST38hheh20:09
lucentsitting in the front row you can make a nice bright image about 2" diagonal20:09
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lucentcinema film projector bulbs are about 2000W20:10
lucentit's not surprising that the brightness isn't comparable20:10
* RST38h has seen laser projectors in a few places20:11
RST38hBaltimore Aquarium uses them, for one20:11
lucentfull colour?20:11
RST38hThey are pretty impressive20:11
RST38hlucent: Only seend full color here, in the Darwin Museum20:11
lucentokay20:11
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RST38hlucent: But I do not think it had enough resolution20:12
lucentthe Microvision tech is great, it will end up in a Nokia product eventually20:12
Arkenoias my notebook died i watch movies alot with n90020:12
lucentthat is my guess20:12
Arkenoiwith 3m mpro120 pocket projector20:12
lucentArkenoi: which media player is your preference20:12
Arkenoinative one20:13
Arkenoimplayer is too slow20:13
dnaumovis anyone here using Handbrake to transcode videos to be viewed on their N900? is it possible to transcode the video but do a direct steam copy of the audio track from source to destination? its really silly to re-encode an already lossy 128-192kbps audio again into AAC, reducing the quality even further...20:13
Arkenoimencoder -ac copy20:14
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dmj726I don't bother to transcode anything to use on the n90020:14
dmj726It's not necessary20:14
Arkenoime neither, except it is HD20:14
dnaumovdmj726: good luck watching 1080p...20:14
dmj726If it's 1080p then yeah20:14
jebbaanyone know if mplayer is built with N900/ARM optimizations?20:14
jebbaneon etc20:15
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lucentdnaumov: I thought you could do it with Handbrake, but I haven't used Handbrake recently so I can't verify that20:17
lucentmore of a question for Handbrake devs20:17
Gadgetoid_iMacdnaumov: you can pass-through the audio in Handbrake20:17
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|RI'm wondering if google will announce anything more than the Nexus One in the next few minutes...20:22
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dmj726they're announcing that today?20:23
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|Rrightn ow20:24
|Rright now20:25
|Rhttp://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/01/google-android-event-liveblog.ars20:25
Gadgetoid_iMacNexus One = Fail20:25
RST38hwhy?20:25
Gadgetoid_iMacIt fixes all the bad points in the Droid, but adopts none of the good points...20:25
|Ryeah, i'm not getting it either20:25
RST38hGooglers are absolutely awed by it20:25
Gadgetoid_iMacGooglers are idiots20:25
RST38hNot the ones I know20:25
Gadgetoid_iMacThey wouldn't know a smartphone if you rammed one up each nostril and set them to vibrate20:25
RST38hNexus has no real unified messaging though, so it is a no go20:26
hrwGadgetoid_iMac: I could say same thing about nokians20:26
Gadgetoid_iMacIt has no keyboard... how are you going to do any unified messaging on it!20:26
tigertkuriiri: got any luck with the access point stuff?20:26
Gadgetoid_iMachrw: You could, but to rise above that I would just like to say: HTC TyTN II FTW!20:26
hrwGadgetoid_iMac: tytn2? that crappy qvga brick?20:27
Gadgetoid_iMachrw: Blasthemy!!!20:27
Gadgetoid_iMac(it was a brick, though)20:27
dmj726eh, they can have their device20:27
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dmj726I'm happy with mine.20:27
tybolltI can edit my sources.list... what can googlers do? Submit to google store?20:28
Gadgetoid_iMacI like Google store, it's better than the Apple app store in a few ways20:29
* tybollt shrug - if godphone and robots want to drink the koolaid - by all means... I'm perfectly happy w/ my n900 =)20:29
Gadgetoid_iMacBut it's also packed full of total dross20:29
Gadgetoid_iMacI wonder if I should try and finish porting Rocks'n'Diamonds20:30
hrwtybollt: I would like to have sane dev environment in maemo520:30
RST38hhrw: You should tel him the same about Applers! =)20:31
hrwwith current dev tools20:31
dmj726seems like it's just made to flash pretty colors20:31
dmj726also, why does it have 2 mics but only one camera?20:31
hrwRST38h: I used iphones for <30 minutes since they appeared on market20:31
hrwRST38h: so I prefer to not comment20:31
RST38hhrw: You mean, you have already been contaminated? =)20:32
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hrwque?20:32
RST38hBy the apple virus!20:32
dmj726don't worry, the apple virus can be cured by a good dose of debian20:33
Gadgetoid_iMacThe iPhone is an undeniably great device, but it's just a trumped up featurephone to any self respecting geek20:33
SpeedEvildmj726: also by boiling for 5 minutes, and serving with pork.20:33
dmj726hmm...animated wallpaper20:34
hrwRST38h: from apple products I used: MacOS 7.1/7.5.5/7.6.1 in Shapeshifter emulator (on Amiga), LC 475 (for fun),  powerbook 180c (we tried to hack it a bit), powermac g5 (as web machine at friend home), iphone 2g/3g/3gs for <half hour in total20:34
jebbai have an iphone sitting here. pretty annoying device actually. Need a special stupid tool to even get the SIM out.20:34
SpeedEviljebba: it's called an axe.20:34
* RST38h found today that gebrick has been contaminated and is totally lost to us20:34
dmj726;anybody try this with maemo?20:34
RST38hhrw: Ah, you had an Amiga?20:34
hrwRST38h: yes20:35
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* Arkenoi wishes it to be the way to ignore applications in sotware catalog forever (or, at least, unltil i un-ignore it). too many *-zhhk stuff to scroll through20:35
tybolltdmj726: hmm animgif? mjpeg?20:35
dmj726would that work on n900 wallpaper?20:35
hrwRST38h: A600 bought in 1995, then added HDD, 2MB ram, switched to A1200, ended with A1200 040/40 2+64MB ram, 17GB hdd, vga mono20:35
RST38hArkenoi: which section did that stuff got to?20:35
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RST38hhrw: I bought a used A2000 in the US, then got a similarly used A300020:36
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hrwa3000 was best model released20:36
RST38hthe multiple screens thing felt absolutely amazing at the time20:36
Arkenoiextras devel20:36
hrwa3000+ was greatest ever built20:36
RST38hArkenoi: no, which section inside extras-devel?20:36
RST38hhrw: well mine was kinda slow, but worked20:37
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* RST38h even mounted his university account as a disk. Over a modem. Using some really ugly kludge.20:37
hrwRST38h: default a3000 is slow like hell - you need good cpu card - cyberstorm for example20:37
RST38hdidn't have money for a card20:38
Arkenoisystem20:38
tybolltamiga was good for its time but the lack of mmu was ... well20:38
RST38hah, ok, so the chinese guy littered all over system20:38
* RST38h wondered where the crap went20:38
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LuciusMareomg20:38
LuciusMarehow to record videos on fremantle?20:38
lbtStskeeps: ping20:39
hrwrun camera tool, switch to video20:39
RST38htybollt: thanks to lack of mmu amiga had shorter context switch time than Sun20:39
LuciusMarehrw: where? any picture?20:39
tybolltLuciusMare: open the cam door on your mobile and voila record20:39
SpeedEvilLuciusMare: opwn rhwe shutter, select 'A' - selectr videwo20:39
LuciusMarei didnt find the icon20:39
LuciusMarehm20:39
SpeedEvilAnd it should be _way_ more obvious trhan that20:39
LuciusMareow20:39
hrwLuciusMare: camera app suxx20:39
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tybolltRST: Bleeding fast... sure.20:39
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RST38hIt also had an OS architecture that some people are still striving to achieve nowadays20:40
LuciusMareexactly, SpeedEvil.20:40
RST38h(penguins included)20:40
LuciusMarethank you.20:40
tybolltRST38h: the die hard miggy people still claim lack of mmu produced better programmers since if you fucked up you'd die harder... I dunno that's a religious war I suppose ;)20:40
hrwRST38h: Sun also used m68k at that time20:41
hrwRST38h: remember then Sun workstations were used to develop AmigaOS 0.x20:41
ArkenoigTranslate is handy, but it does not remember language preferences. I doubt many of us need translation to and from afrikaans20:42
dmj726Sounds like the nexus phone has good voice command abilities20:42
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jebbaArkenoi: there is qstardict now  :)20:42
hrwdmj726: probably even nokia 6310i had better voice command abilities then n90020:42
dmj726I don't really care about voice that much20:42
leon-anybody know how to reflash the device back to sales release firmware if for some reason you would have ended up with something else on your device? :)20:43
dmj726My 5 year old dumb phone had a bit of voice stuff.20:43
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dmj726which I despised20:43
RST38hhrw: Yes, but the context switch time was compared with a SPARC running SunOS 4.320:43
hrwleon-: wiki.maemo.org has info20:44
RST38htybollt: naaah, it just made programs crash and take whole system with them20:44
dmj726now give me a phone that lets me subvocalize my phone calls, and I'll be impressed20:44
|Rwell, the nexus gets full voice support everywhere it seems20:44
leon-hrw, many thanks...20:44
jebbahey, can i get some testing/karma for this?  http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/burgerspace/1.8.3-18/   I friend in USA wants it, but i dont even dare suggest he enable extras-testing  ;)20:44
RST38htybollt: but it was way less frequent than some people pictured it to be20:44
RST38hjebba: -testing is relatively safe to enable20:45
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RST38h-devel I would not20:45
dmj726The full voice support is interesting, but I wouldn't end up using it much20:45
hrwleon-: you jsut need firmware image and flasher-3.5 tool. if you are using windows then you can also try NSU but I do not know does it supports n90020:45
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jebbaheh. RST38h, ya, but there's some users that you *know* you dont even want to suggest that...20:45
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RST38hoh20:45
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RST38hwe call them the iphone users =)20:46
hrwbb in few20:46
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jebbaplus is pretty innocuous package/game20:46
ali1234jebba: just have him install the dpkg directly then?20:46
jebbaRST38h: exactly. he's an i*/apple user...20:46
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jebbaali1234: dude, i'm not even going to bother with command lline stuff with this user. trust me.20:46
jebbait'll take 8 hours.20:46
ali1234then make an .install20:46
jebbaor just get 4 karma points and it's in extras. done.20:46
leon-hrw, yes I have flashed the device like 100 times already but after flashing it the sim card is no longer usable20:46
jebbaand others can use it too....20:47
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jebbaanyone know a way to search pacakges by maintainer? e.g. what packages i've submitted and forgot abotu? hah20:49
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SpeedEvilIs there a simple dialog tool runnable from shell?20:49
SpeedEvilsomething like xdialog20:49
RST38hOk, reboot. Going to try making a keyboard layout switch applet20:49
leon-I even tried cold flashing but no use that one either..20:49
jebbaSpeedEvil: i thought i saw zenity somewhere20:50
jebbaya, it's in extras-*something20:50
SpeedEvilinteresting20:51
SpeedEvilthjanks!20:51
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SpeedEvilSounds interesting.20:51
dnaumovGadgetoid_iMac: I thought the pass-through was only for when the source was AC3?20:51
SpeedEvilI want to do 0th cut of some near-trivial apps20:51
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SpeedEvilawk+shell+gnuplot can do lots20:51
Gadgetoid_iMacdnaumov: I'm sure you can pass-through any source, it would be silly not to be able to... I'd have to check20:51
* SpeedEvil notes bad typing is due to gloves.20:52
SpeedEvilSorry for any inconvenience.20:52
|RN900 has dual Mic right?20:53
hrwleon-: does sim work in other phone? if yes then report bug. if not then replace it20:53
SpeedEvil|R: don['t think so20:53
leon-hrw, it works20:54
matthew-|R: no20:54
|Ruhm ok, i thought i saw stereo recording somewhere20:54
Gadgetoid_iMacdnaumov: surely leaving the target audio settings the same as the source would imply a pass-through... AAC and DTS pass-through are explicit pass-through settings for the original tracks on DVDs20:56
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jebbagah, builder down again20:56
jebbaor is that unmentionable now?20:56
jebbaFailed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/fremantle/tools/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz  504 Gateway Time-out [IP: 193.184.164.146 80]20:56
jebbajust when i thought it was safe to submit jobs again  ;)20:57
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slonopotamusis it only me lacking scrollbar for userlist in fremantle xchat?21:01
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wazd_e63Oh, nexus one will be released today?21:10
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Pavlovit is out21:11
jebbahmm, how hackable nexus one?21:11
Pavlovhttp://google.com/phone21:11
jebbai see some google fones can use ofono.21:11
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Pavlovdunno, ill let you know how it is tomorrow21:17
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Sir_LancelotNow that Nexus is official, N900 has a long way to catch up, to compensate the hard work of having it inside my pocket :D21:18
Sir_Lancelotfunny, how much eye-candyness is appreciated ;)21:19
luke-jrSir_Lancelot: but does Nexus have a keyboard? :P21:19
corecodeRST38h: that ha forum thread does not conclusively inform whether vorbis is covered by patents or not21:19
Sir_Lancelotscrew the KB. If the digital KB is good, than it's no worse than a physical one21:19
jebbaany clue how many apps android has?21:20
zashbah, sandboxed pseudojava21:20
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jebbaah, android "store" has 20,000 applications.  Hmm, wtf. That's more than debian. How can that be?21:21
dnaumovwhy would you want nexus one? ita droid that looks only slightly better than the original droid (which was ugly in both aesthetics and performance department)21:21
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zashdoes it have over 9000 flashlight apps?21:21
ali1234jebba: debian doesn't have any where near as many fart apps21:21
jebbahaha21:21
jebbaya. Better than 100 apps in extras though  :(21:22
wazd_e63lancelot: believe me, no onscreen keyboard can deal with proper hardware21:22
wazd_e63Hardware ftw21:22
ali1234not only that but the nexus is HTC21:22
mavhcno multitouch, no point21:22
ali1234that means it will fall apart if you look at it funny21:23
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RST38hmavhc: do not forget it must have capacitive screen, support mms, and itunes21:23
RST38hmavhc: Otherwise it is not worthy!21:23
Sir_Lancelotbut you have to agree with me, that N900 is far from being eye-candy21:23
Sir_Lancelotand there's a lack of apps21:23
ali1234not really21:23
Sir_Lancelotthere's no app for Facbeook, for example21:23
RST38hwhat is Facebook?21:24
Sir_Lancelotand the Twitter apps are kinda lame yet...21:24
ArkenoiSir_Lancelot, iir there is one?21:24
jebbato my newbie amigo from apple/iphone world that has n900 he thinks there's a lack of apps. I told him "oh just wait" weeks ago, and since then there's been like 15 new apps. Whoopie.21:24
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ali1234i don't see why anyone would buy a n900 to use facebook and twitter21:24
moo-_-touch.facebook.com21:25
Arkenoii remember one of first things i deleted from my n900 was "facebook app" or "facebook app downloader", cannot remember exactly which one21:25
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wazd_e63there is a website21:25
davygSir_Lancelot, never heard that debian has a lack of app21:25
moo-_-who needs an app...21:25
wazd_e63Why would you need an app21:25
jebbaali1234:  they don't buy it to use facebook and twitter. They buy it to do all sorts of stuff, and that's one of the things.21:25
RST38hjebba: But there were 1500 new apps at the apple appstore at the same time!21:25
jebbaexactly. Tons of stuff RST38h21:25
RST38hiPhone is superior! It's better!21:25
moo-_-jebba: most of apps are just rebranded websites21:25
moo-_-mobile internet is not about apps21:25
myosound1500 fart apps21:26
Sir_Lancelotso, if I understood correclty, there's no use for social network apps on N900, right?21:26
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: what you could do with an app which you cannot do using a browser?21:26
wazd_e63rst38h, e63 ftw, shut up!)21:26
* Arkenoi uses n900 with livejournal and linkedin all the time but never seen any need of "apps"21:26
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jebbamoo-_-: perhaps, but theres also thousands of useful apps too.  By just dismissing it by saying "fart apps" and stuff you are just putting your head in the sand to the reality that android and iphone are *WAY* ahead of maemo in terms of applciations.21:26
moo-_-jebba: yeah I know21:26
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moo-_-I am a mobile app developer myself21:26
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ali1234so what are these amazingly useful apps?21:26
moo-_-including iphone :)21:26
Sir_Lancelotbecause of the size of the screen, moo-_-21:26
Arkenoiactually syncing contacts with those might be handy, but i hardly see anything other an "application" may bring21:26
* ifreq makes new social app --> run facebook on fullscreen21:27
TomaszDfiferboy, when I'm running maemo-optify it complains Cannot chdir to debian/wesnoth-data21:27
ifreqwho wants to buy??21:27
jebbaali1234: well, there was one he was using to study biology. It had all the parts of the body, muscles, etc. he used for skool. Was very impressive little app.21:27
jebbalots of specialized things like that.21:27
ifreqArkenoi: hermes can do the synckin with twitter and facebook, its cool :)21:27
Sir_Lancelotof course the browser supports everything...the problem is that the webpage is optimized fpor bigger screens21:27
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: touch.facebook.com21:27
Sir_LancelotIf I want to make a tweet21:27
Arkenoiifreq: i know, but i do not use either one ;-)21:27
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: m.twitter.com21:27
Sir_LancelotI wan't it fat21:27
ifreqArkenoi: you won :)21:27
fiferboyTomaszD: I have no experience with optify, but don't you just specify it in a file in the debian directory?21:27
moo-_-and by the way, there is a twitter app nowadays :)21:28
jebbafiferboy:  just do  "echo auto > debian/optify"21:28
moo-_-or several of them21:28
jebbafiferboy: then you can run maemo-optify-deb on your completed debs21:28
RST38hBy the way...21:28
Sir_Lancelotso, in this case, what is the expectation for N900? what will be the "Wow" apps that will come up21:28
fiferboyjebba: Right, thanks21:28
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moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: skype is integrated directly to your address book21:28
Sir_Lancelotin the future?21:28
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: so no skype app needed21:28
RST38hIf N900 is so great, why there is no Heater App for N900 yet?!?21:28
TomaszDjebba, what about the autobuilder?21:28
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: phone itself is the "skype"21:29
jebbafiferboy: you can also add  Build-Depends: maemo-optify     but that isnt necessary in the builder anymore.21:29
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: also I think facebook will be integrated in the near future too21:29
KamuiWrkcrapola21:29
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KamuiWrkI did it again21:29
KamuiWrkrootfs full21:29
myosoundfirefox and xterm are the wow apps for n90021:29
moo-_-there is also MSN integration, AOL, ICQ already. you name it21:29
fiferboyjebba: And the autobuilder picks up from the optify file as well?21:29
jebbaTomaszD: what about the autobuilder? I dont understand.  You just need to do "echo auto > debian/optify" for the builder to optify, if that's what you are asking.21:29
jebbafiferboy: yes, exactl.y21:30
fiferboyjebba: Thanks!21:30
jebbanp21:30
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TomaszDjebba, you mean I should put a file optify in the debian folder, with auto as its content?21:31
Arkenoiso what about that fecesbook app shipped with my n900? was i hallucinating?21:31
Sir_LancelotWhat could be my expectation for N900? what will be the "Wow" apps that will come up21:31
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KamuiWrkis /usr/share on the rootfs?21:31
Sir_Lancelotin the future?21:31
corecodecrayon physics!21:31
KamuiWrkIm thinking about relinking it21:31
corecodethat would be a cool app21:31
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: firefox21:31
KamuiWrkseems to have about 125m on it21:31
moo-_-it syncs with your desktop browser21:31
woglindere21:31
Sir_LancelotArkenoi that is a widget...barely called an application21:32
RST38h"Whenever you want to go fanboy harassing, go after 2PM because if they don't have the charger with them, that device is like a brick in the water."21:32
jebbaTomaszD: exactly21:32
RST38hehehe21:32
TomaszDjebba, thanks, didn't know that. Is that documented somewhere?21:32
RST38hSir_Lancelot: What is facebook? Why do I need it?21:32
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jebbaKamuiWrk: be careful with relinking. There are some discsussions about it in talk.mo21:32
RST38hIs it some website?21:32
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jebbaTomaszD: uh, ya probably somewhere heh.21:32
moo-_-RST38h: facebook is for people with facebook friends :)21:32
jebbaTomaszD: fiferboy  see:  http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Package_Building_HOWTO21:33
RST38hmoo: Are "facebook friends" the same happy people I sometimes see in SIMS screenshots?21:33
RST38hlike...virtual people?21:33
ml-mobile:( watchdog strikes again21:33
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ali1234RST38h: no "facebook friends" are the people *outside* your basement21:33
TomaszDjebba, thanks21:34
jebbawould be nice if we could just shoot the watchdog in the head. Perhaps time to poke at that in the kernel.21:34
TomaszDjebba, thought about adding info about the maemo-specific fields in control?21:34
RST38hali1234: I do not have a basement.21:34
jebbaTomaszD: such as what?21:34
ali1234RST38h: virtual basement21:34
RST38hali1234: I do not have a virtual basement.21:34
TomaszDjebba, XB-Maemo-Display-Name, XB-Description, things like that21:35
jebbahahah. #1 iphone free app is kamasutra something  (me looking at his iphone for first time)21:35
KamuiWrkjebba, thanks for the advice, I guess Ill just run the optify script, just didn't want to wait 30 minutes for it to build a list of installed apps21:35
jebbaTomaszD: i think i have some of that in there, ya.21:35
jebbaKamuiWrk: np21:35
Arkenoiis there *working* barcode scanner?21:35
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: there is no difference between skype callls and normal phone calls. there is no difference between skype chat and SMS messages. that's nifty.21:36
RST38hArkenoi: /msg lardman21:36
jebbaTomaszD: ah, ya, i see i dont have them in my wiki page. Need to update that for use with a GUI app.21:36
TomaszDjebba, no, you don't. May I add those?21:36
jebbaTomaszD: ya, go for it thx!21:36
TomaszDok21:36
Sir_Lancelotlet's see if I can make my self understand21:36
moo-_-by the way does someone have a script to turn skype on when you arrive to home wlan?21:36
Sir_Lancelotwhat I'm asking, is which are the objectivs for N900?21:36
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jebbaoh, there's a Dakar application for iphone. spongebob too heh.21:36
crashanddieyooooo bitches21:36
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myosoundSir_Lancelot: I'd say n900 is the "debian in your pocket" hacker phone21:37
Sir_LancelotI know what the phone does...I have already for 1 month, and thanks to you guys, I've been loving it21:37
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: good browser and very good surfing experience21:37
Sir_Lancelothowever, I'm distant enough to clearly identify the good and bad things about it21:37
villagerali1234: my accelerometer is busted again... did you want me to try stuff?21:37
ali1234villager: yes21:37
Sir_Lancelotand with soo many offers outside, I'm curious to know where N900 is going21:37
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ali1234villager: hang on while i upload some shiz21:38
jebbaah, but i have to sign up to even install "free" applications.21:38
jebbaPLONK21:38
ArkenoiFatal error: Call to undefined method midcom_application::get_error_string() in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/maemo/brainstorm/handler/solution.php on line 121:38
Sir_Lancelotif it's only web surfing...then It's good enough already. It would be a shame if that would be the only objective...21:38
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: I think there is no third-party integration to contacts on other platforms21:38
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RST38himagine that, this whole monstrosity is written in php...21:38
jebbaArkenoi: where's that?21:38
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jebbaah brainstorm21:39
Sir_Lancelotmaybe N900 is not the phone for me. That's what I'm trying to understand21:39
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Arkenoiline 100 actually21:39
Arkenoiyep, brainstorm21:39
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: it is not for everyone21:39
jebbaArkenoi: outage reports go here:  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581821:39
povbot`Bug 5818: We need servers21:39
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RST38hServer?21:39
ali1234villager: go here: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/21:39
RST38hNo, someone needs to figure out this mess.21:39
RST38hNo server.21:39
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ali1234villager: download the i2c tools, stick them on to the phone21:40
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villagerali1234: ok21:40
woglinderst he mails are on the new server now21:40
Sir_Lancelotyou're right moo-_-21:40
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: if your objectives are many games and fun, N900 is not for you21:40
jebbaRST38h: i dont understand.  Usually the server outage bugs are supposed to be reported here, AFAIK:  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581821:40
povbot`Bug 5818: We need servers21:40
woglinderst so the hope of transition isnt down21:40
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moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: I think N900 is more about business than entertainment21:40
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moo-_-iPhone is all about entertainment21:40
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RST38hwoglinde: I now strongly believe that the problems are not due to the hardware =(21:40
woglinderst only mails21:41
woglindenot www21:41
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RST38hok, let us see what happens when www is transitioned21:41
jebbaRST38h: someone mentioned in #maemo-meeting today they have an optimization for brainstorm to speed it up. Not sure what they are waiting for tho21:41
Sir_Lancelotmoo -_- I see things being developed21:41
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Sir_Lancelotin extras-devel21:41
Sir_Lancelotthat are amazing21:41
Sir_Lancelotlike the RDS FM transmitter thing21:41
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: the phone has been on market just one mo21:41
Sir_Lancelotand so on..21:41
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jebbaya, just need to get them to get into extras.21:41
Sir_Lancelotand the BT keybord and mouse21:41
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Sir_Lancelotthere are great achievements21:42
woglindejebba exchanging the crappy webserver and cms?21:42
Sir_Lancelotwhich no other phone will have21:42
woglinde*duck and hide*21:42
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KamuiWrkI was impressed by the thread on improving the transmitters power21:42
KamuiWrkis that legit?21:42
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: though open source community shapes the direction geekdom and hackery are not the only factors behind N90021:42
KamuiWrkeveryone seems to claim in there that it works21:42
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Sir_LancelotI'm just wondering if it will stop here and focus only on web browsing21:42
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: though they are very good ones if you are into it21:42
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jebbawoglinde: no clue. I assume it's just something like a better SQL SELECT or something21:42
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Sir_Lancelotor if devs will focus also in other things21:42
jebbabut no idea beyond that. Tis practically secret wtf they do.21:42
mtnbkranyone else experience that subfolders of INBOX on an imap server don't show up in the mail app on N900/maemo5?  sadly my iPhone handled my IMAP and all folders cleanly and intelligently  while the curent mail app on my N900 struggles to d/l all emails in a folder and when there are a lot it akes forever - even on wifi.21:42
villagerali1234: just the 3 i2c* ones? done21:43
ali1234yes21:43
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moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: Nokia will surely pursuit iPhone and Android... it would be crazy to do otherwise. Nokia would fall to be low-end phone manufacturer only21:43
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ali1234villager: ok, ssh in to phone, and do: rmmod lis302dl21:43
villagerali1234: now what?21:43
ali1234then: ./i2cdump 3 0x1d21:43
SpeedEvilKamuiWrk: it doesnt meaningfully improve it21:43
ali1234and pastebin output21:43
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Sir_Lancelotforcing Symbian has brought them to that place...21:44
KamuiWrkSpeedEvil: roh noes!21:44
SpeedEvilKamuiWrk: at least - here - the default is already the max21:44
RST38hmoo: iPhone is pointless to pursue21:44
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SpeedEvilKamuiWrk: and the max power kinda sucks utterly.21:44
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mtnbkrali1234: to answer your question from a few minutes ago re: good apps on iphone... I loved the gutiar tuner app and even emailed the devs to see if they would consider a maemo port - it was/is awesome and is much more than a simple tuner too21:44
RST38hmoo: It is a cult, not a thing any more21:44
villagerali1234: http://pastebin.com/m6faf050f21:45
TomaszDjebba, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Package_Building_HOWTO#debian.2Fcontrol21:45
Sir_Lancelotjust ot make it clear: I hate iphone21:45
Sir_LancelotLOL21:45
RST38hmoo: Android is pursuable, especially considering how many things Google just does not get about phones21:45
ali1234villager: ok that's good21:45
jebbaTomaszD: rad! THx!21:45
ali1234villager: hang on while i check datasheet for next command21:45
moo-_-RST38h: If you look behind fanboyism, iPhone has the best usability of modern phones, still. Apple has shown how to do appstore correctly.21:45
TomaszDjebba, np21:45
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RST38hmoo: This does not matter21:45
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RST38hmoo: What matters is that it is a cult21:46
moo-_-RST38h: are you saying that usability does not matter?21:46
RevdKathymtnbkr - I thinkthere is a tuner app, isn;t there? In testing if not in extras21:46
SpeedEvilRST38h: Oooh - cult21:46
SpeedEvil!21:46
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mtnbkrSir_Lancelot: lol   iPhone is nice but I HATED all the DRM and other LOCK INS... Day one on my N900 I was playing all my ogg vorbis files. Screw Apple. :)21:46
SpeedEvilRST38h: Do we get ceremonial robes?21:46
RST38hmoo: Oh usability matters but even if iPhone were unusable, it would not make a difference21:46
jebbaya, defintely screw apple ;)21:46
ifreqSpeedEvil: yeah ofcoors21:46
moo-_-RST38h: ah21:46
ifreqcan i hold the dagger21:46
ifreqmoo will be sacrifised21:47
RST38hifreq: Yea21:47
ali1234villager: ok now: ./i2cset 3 0x1d 0x21 0x4021:47
RevdKathymtnbkr: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/tuner/21:47
moo-_-RST38h: however, there are rational arguments where iPhone is good, not Good21:47
ali1234villager: and then ./i2cdump 3 0x1d again, and pastebin output21:47
RST38hifreq: You hold the dagger, SpeedEvil will be at the altar, in his ceremonial robes21:47
mtnbkrRevdKathy: yeah, I have it but there is no comparison.   Not even one thing is comparable. the Guitar Tuner app on iPhone I had had all sorts of chord configs, metronome,  and more.  pretty slick acually.21:47
woglindeali uh what are thes commands do to i2c?21:47
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RST38hifreq: I will go bring something to collect the blood into21:47
moo-_-RST38h: it was big mistake for Nokia to ignore iPhone when it was released... it made them to look like idiots today21:47
ali1234woglinde: they send i2c raw packets21:47
SpeedEvilwhere are i2c21:48
SpeedEvil* tools21:48
SpeedEvil?21:48
ali1234woglinde: i2cdump reads the whole i2c register address apce21:48
villagerali1234: http://pastebin.com/m6373824121:48
ali1234SpeedEvil: i compiled them myself21:48
woglindei2dump us clear21:48
woglindeis clear21:48
RST38hmoo: Nokia is a huge company which explicitly abandoned touch devices years ago21:48
RST38hmoo: It has got lots of inertia. Hence the reaction.21:48
villagerali1234: perhaps we need to reset the boot bit also?21:48
ali1234villager: i thought 0x40 was the boot bit21:49
ali1234try 0x02 instead maybe the endianness is wrong21:49
villagerali1234: yes, but you just set it, also need to reset it back to 0?21:49
Sir_Lancelotand how about PalmPre21:49
Sir_Lancelotis Linux21:49
Sir_Lancelotopen source and so on21:49
Arkenoiwell, apple's idea is "fuck the long tail". make something that fits perfectly for 90% users and just do not care if the rest becomes upset. most people's usage patterns are simple (who said "stupid"? ;-) and if you do not fit, apple is not for you. i don't.21:49
Sir_Lancelotbut looks good!21:49
jXas well as all the android phones21:49
RST38hSir: PalmPre is dead afaik21:49
villagerali1234: I can try to set it back to 021:49
jXRST38h: what?21:49
ali1234villager: no it goes back to 0 automatically according to datasheet21:49
RST38hjX: Tiny sales compared to other players21:50
moo-_-RST38h: it is not about touch screen, but the generic concept what people want. Nokia was all about features features features and S60 menus were getting horrible phone after phone.21:50
RST38hjX: Lots of complaints about performance21:50
jXyeah, but saying it's dead is silly21:50
RST38hjX: This is as good as dead21:50
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RST38hzombified, ok21:50
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Sir_LancelotjX you have to learn to flter what RST38h says...  ehehehe21:50
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villagerali1234: didn't appear to in the dump though21:50
moo-_-looking back to that.... N900 doesn't have that many features :D21:50
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ali1234villager: right, and 0x40 is definitely right21:51
villagerali1234: ok, should I try 2?21:51
jXSir_Lancelot: There seem to be a number of people here in need of filters. ;)21:51
ali1234villager: looks like your accelerometer has actually crashed :/21:51
RST38hmoo: Nokia does not target what people want21:51
KamuiWrkSpeedEvil, noooo!  mine shows 113 as the powerlevel, people were saying raising it to 118 removed static in the car, does this not sound accurate?  I suppose the best proof for me would be to actually try it21:51
Sir_LancelotjX , right ;)21:51
Arkenoiand it is religion - people are *willing* to ajust their habits because they faithfully believe that apple knows better what they need than themselves. looks like it is true. apple is not for people capable of determining their own needs either.21:51
moo-_-RST38h: well they are doing consumer business?21:51
KamuiWrkI mean, Im not trying to run a pirate radio station :)21:51
RST38hmoo: It targets whatever its highly paid business / market analysts say people want21:51
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Sir_Lancelotjust because Maemo is wonderfull, why can't it be beautifull as well? :d21:52
ali1234villager: wait a minute21:52
ali1234it's turned off21:52
SpeedEvilKamuiWrk: I'm not saying it can't work - just that the difference21:52
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SpeedEvilI found with my radio was very small.21:52
RevdKathyKamuiWrk - do it - run MaemoFM from your n900 and do phone in chats!21:52
* Arkenoi wants to override most annoying radio stations, shame the transmitter is not strong enough21:52
ali1234villager: ./i2cset 0x1d 0x20 0x4021:52
RST38hmoo: Once you let those make decisions, things generally continue going in the same direction where they started to go years ago21:52
RST38hmoo: For S60 it was "more features"21:52
SpeedEvilKamuiWrk: and hte output power at highest is regrettably small21:52
moo-_-RST38h: ack. I agree.21:53
ali1234villager: actually 0x4721:53
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RST38hmoo: Making a non-standard decision may get you fired but making the same decision as the last year is ok21:53
villagerali1234: http://pastebin.com/m2d82dd2d21:53
moo-_-RST38h: there is very much truth in that21:54
RST38hmoo: and there is no jackass at the top who would say "ah, screw it all"21:54
ali1234villager: see the different values at 0x10 - 0x1f now?21:54
Arkenoirst38h: that's the problem of mobile industry: no one has the balls21:54
Sir_Lancelothaving the palm pre on N900...would be like having the Megan Fox in your bed, and a pair of nuts with 10 Lt of milk21:54
villagerali1234: yep21:54
ali1234villager: also 0x21 went back to 021:54
RST38hArkenoi: not just mobile21:54
ali1234villager: ok so now try reloading the module21:54
moo-_-RST38h: well... jackass is a synonym for leadership :)21:54
RST38hArkenoi: industry as a whole21:54
ali1234villager: see if it works ok now21:54
RST38hok, corporate industry21:54
moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: which one is Megan Gox?21:55
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Arkenoithe term "iphone killer" is itself a sign of terminal loser21:55
Sir_Lancelotupsss21:55
* lardman sees the snowcast for SW England21:55
Sir_LancelotFox21:55
Sir_Lancelot:P21:55
villagerali1234: looks good21:55
moo-_-Arkenoi: in Nexus One launch even they specifically avoided the term21:55
Arkenoinot having the balls to make the obvious thing the first place and then chasing the leader21:55
ali1234villager: ok, so this is probably a bug in the module then21:55
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ali1234villager: in any case, a "reallyreset" option can be added21:55
ali1234villager: through sys21:55
moo-_-Arkenoi: no one kills anyone in corporate business... they all do suicide.21:55
RST38hok, sleep for me.21:55
villagerali1234: dunno, could be some other linux module doing something wrong to the i2c bus, not necessarily the lis302dl, or?21:56
ali1234villager: it could, yes21:56
villagerali1234: but yeah, a boot option would be great21:56
RST38hmoo: actually they do not suicide21:56
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ali1234villager: it would have to be a module though, since the driver locks that device from userspace access21:56
ali1234villager: that's why i asked you to unlaod it21:56
RST38hmoo: They get their severance packages and go marinate in sunshine somewhere21:56
RST38hmoo: Their former employees do suicide every now and then, although homocide seems to be more common among them nowadays21:57
TomaszDnice, organizing the menu will come in PR1.2 hopefully21:57
RST38h<sleep>21:57
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TomaszD:)21:57
SpeedEvilali1234: are these tools in any downloadable form?21:57
Arkenoias i stated before, religious beliefs are important. imagine HTC made a phone with no bluetooth, no cut&paste, imbecile email client and non-removable battery 3 years ago. people would laugh at it!21:57
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Arkenoibut apple fanboys are believers21:58
ali1234SpeedEvil: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/21:58
villagerali1234: well, hope it'll be fixed in some future update, anyway21:58
SpeedEvilrhanka~21:58
Arkenoicultists even21:58
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ali1234i guess i should make a package, i do have a repo after all21:59
tigertwow22:00
woglindeArkenoi he they fixed cut and paste22:00
tigertgtranslate app22:00
tigertrocks!22:00
tigertneat22:00
woglindeafter 2 years22:01
jebbatigert: does gtranslate use web?  (i'm assuming that's google=22:01
tigertyes22:01
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woglindejebba burgerspace has now 9 thumbs up22:01
jebbanice thx :)22:02
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jebbawoglinde: surely you did extensive testing and debugging too, right?!! ;)22:02
jebbadont want you to be chased by fried chicked or anything22:02
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ali1234haha i used to have this game on C6422:04
ali1234except it was called "mr wimpy"22:04
FIQok22:05
FIQso, guys22:05
FIQwhen you answered my question before, my battery runned out22:05
FIQso i didn't really managed to see the answer22:05
FIQso i ask again22:05
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FIQhow long would the battery last if you use Xchat, microB and some random msn application running?22:06
tigertmaybe the N900 answered to you? :)22:06
FIQoh22:07
FIQit would sure do...22:07
FIQif i had one22:07
fralsdepends on how much you use each activity and quality of net connection id say22:07
FIQ:)22:07
tigertah22:07
FIQfrals, ok, then i will test for myself. :p22:07
FIQit's not really a problem (i'm used to take my charger with me all the day, my current phone last after 2 hours using), but could be nice to know22:08
KamuiWrkis 1000 blocks 1K or 1M22:08
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KamuiWrk102422:09
KamuiWrkor not even related22:09
jebbacan i karma whore one more stinking vote for this app so i can forget about it? thx  :)  http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/burgerspace/1.8.3-18/22:09
BaTmAnI think karma should come round without you asking for it ;)22:10
BaTmAnbut hey22:11
BaTmAn10/1022:11
BaTmAnwell done22:11
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FIQi lost. :322:12
Pudding-n900is it wotrth downloading it?22:12
Pudding-n900*worth22:12
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hrwheh...22:19
hrwPR 1.1 is not released for people and nokians respond with 'will be fixed in pr 1.2'22:19
woglindehrw lol22:19
pwnguinPR?22:20
* hrw wants maemo5 lenny edition22:20
villagerwell, it's released to beta testers though I think22:20
pwnguinpre-release?22:20
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hrwpwnguin: name it like you want22:20
woglindehrw hm yes and we want debhelper 7 with override support22:21
woglindelenny has only debhelper7 without it22:21
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hrwwoglinde: once switched to lenny backports will be easier. but from my rumours maemo11 will be first release based on Lenny22:22
fralshrw: what bug is that?22:22
hrwfrals: something with hildontouchscroller22:22
hrwI just removed that mail22:22
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hrwbug #549622:23
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5496 HildonTouchSelector: No hint that there are more items22:23
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GAN900Hoo boy, I can only imagine the flames my full inbox is full of.22:24
Bolle_mobilehi22:25
hrwwoglinde: the fun is that to get more sane devs nokia should do such updates. but they are frozen by sbox with obsolete software (and looks like no one got idea to pay for improving it). effect is that instead of getting stuff from Debian in easy way we need to hack22:26
hrwbut thats maemo way and did not changed since os200522:26
hrwexcept they learnt that software update does not need to equal total reflash. took them 3 years...22:26
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Bolle_mobilesbox really sucks :)22:27
ali1234sbox only exists because of the autotools mess22:27
woglindeali what?22:28
hrwali1234: really? there are build systems which takes that mess from you22:28
ali1234hrw: indeed22:28
woglindeali you can use autotools the right or the wrong way22:28
hrwali1234: I am building whole embedded distributions for last few years and nearly did not touched autotools at that time22:28
woglindeit depends on you22:28
ali1234sbox only exists because autotools relies on configure being run in the target environment22:28
woglindewhen you are lazy as developer22:28
woglindeyou will mess it up22:29
hrwali1234: orly?22:29
ali1234hrw: yes, really, that is the whole reason for scratchbox to exist22:29
woglindeali please look at openembedded22:29
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ali1234if it wasn't for that, we could just cross compile everything like normal22:29
woglindehrw and  I working with and on it22:29
villagerali1234: autotools has no such requirement, you're supposed to run configure on the host environment22:29
ali1234woglinde: openembedded is a collection of patches for broken autotools scripts22:29
villagerali1234: the only issue is when people don't know how to use autotools properly22:30
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jon1012hi all22:30
woglindebroken cmake bjam and scons too22:30
woglinde*g*22:30
hrwali1234: not only autotools... we cover (nearly) every build system tools now22:30
ali1234villager: which is like 99.99% of people who use autotools, because it's huge and impossible to understand22:30
jon1012someone knows why, when I'm on 3g, neither mail nor google talk / skype or anything work beside the web browser ?22:30
woglindeali????22:30
hrwcmake, scons, distutils, autotools, qmake, perl crap etc etc etc22:30
jon1012when I'm on wifi everything works22:30
hrwjon1012: works for me22:31
ali1234woglinde: yes, you heard me22:31
woglindeali 2 days and you are fine with autotools22:31
ali1234woglinde: which version?22:31
woglindebut I had this discussion often22:31
Bolle_mobilecan i get rid of busybox by liking /bin/sh to bash? sudo gainroot always gives me busybox...22:31
jon1012whenever I connect using data connection (edge/ 3g) only web works22:31
SpeedEviljon1012: some providers filter crap22:31
woglindeI think 4 times here22:31
jon1012SpeedEvil: I can't even use imap :(22:31
jon1012bwah22:31
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ali1234Bolle_mobile: i wouldn't recommend it, all kinds of bad stuff could happen22:32
jon1012and I thought it for one year to get the n900 :(22:32
woglindeali with autotools when used right, I will know it will crosscompile for most arches I use22:32
jon1012took not thought22:32
ali1234woglinde: when used right, yes22:32
woglindeali using autotools right isnt that hard22:32
ali1234but that almost never happens22:32
woglinde2 days22:32
hrwBolle_mobile: chsh from root account22:32
woglindebelieve me22:32
Bolle_mobileyeah... i expected wired things :)22:32
ali1234woglinde: can you get python developers to fix their build system then please?22:32
* Arkenoi tried to tune adblock+ settings, no luck - i cannot add any filters, the ui is non-responsive there.22:33
Bolle_mobilebash is aleady my root shell22:33
hrwArkenoi: same here22:33
hrwBolle_mobile: apt-get install rootsh and use 'root' instead of 'sudo gainroot'?22:33
woglindeali unfornatly I dont get payed to fix all the crappy stuff22:33
timeless_mbpandre__: i can't22:33
Bolle_mobilessh root@localhost works fine22:33
timeless_mbpbugzilla's closed for the holidays :)22:33
Bolle_mobileah thanks hrw22:34
andre__timeless_mbp, and you cannot wait two days? means you should learn some self-organization ;-)22:34
timeless_mbpi have other problems22:34
hrwali1234: in OE we do build of native python to build target python22:34
woglindeali and I have to write more code on myself when I am using cmake22:34
andre__timeless_mbp, up to you. I won't look at them22:34
timeless_mbpbut yes, my self-org sucks22:34
andre__no time22:34
timeless_mbpyeah, don't worry22:34
ali1234woglinde: well my original point stands, sbox exists because nobody knows how to use autotools properly, because it's too complicated and the docs are horrible22:34
timeless_mbpi'll ensure someone collects them22:34
woglindeali no22:35
woglindeeven with scratchbox the messy autotools using will be better22:35
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woglindeali but you didnt provide a solution on your own22:35
woglindebashing is one thing to make it better another22:36
Bolle_mobileroot works fine... didn't know that22:36
villagerwoglinde: he's defending scratchbox as the solution, that's his point...22:37
woglindevillager hm I didnt get this interpretation22:37
KamuiWrkwow22:38
KamuiWrkI am freeing up nothing22:38
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villagerwoglinde: he says scratchbox is needed because people can't use autotools properly so it's impossible to crosscompile autotools-using stuff without scratchbox22:39
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villageror other virtual environments I suppose22:39
KamuiWrk:)22:39
jebbaBaTmAn: thx! :)22:40
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ali12341i'm not defending scratchbox22:43
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jebbaali1234: pretty much all distros use some kind of scratchbox to build22:43
ali12341i'm merely pointing out that if somebody made a build system that could actually handle cross compiling gracefully, then scratchbox would not be needed22:43
felipecit's possible to cross-compile autotools stuff without scratchbox22:44
jebbathough maybe not as crufty as maemo sb ;)22:44
felipecit's just horrendously difficult22:44
ali12341felipec: except when it isn't22:44
felipecali12341: OE does it, for example, and Fedora, AFAIK22:44
kulveand some specific components are designed to be easily cross compilable22:45
jebbaBaTmAn: or maybe not, still says 9/1022:45
jebbafelipe, ya fedora uses "mock" which is quite nice.22:45
wazd_e63Screw T9 dictionary - hello qwerty magic22:45
ali12341gentoo has that whole crossdev thing22:46
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ali12341and a huge collection of patches against broken autotools + other build scripts22:46
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Bolle_mobile@jebba thanks for your wiki page.. :)22:49
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slonopotamusjebba, you don't need scratchbox. you need crosscompiler and/or qemu or build natively22:50
swc|666yea jebba 's wiki page kicks chuck norris' ass22:50
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jebbaBolle_mobile: no prob  :)22:51
jebbaslonopotamus: ya, i know. But if you want to build hundreds of packages sanely, you use some sort of scratchbox/chroot/whateveryouwanttocallit22:51
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Bolle_mobilehehe and chuck norris has an n900 :D22:53
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jebbaBaTmAn: your voted didn't count. Must be diebold running the thing  ;)22:55
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MaemohammadAGrepos down?22:56
slonopotamusjebba, in gentoo, you just use package manager :)22:56
jebbaslonopotamus: ah, i've done gentoo, but not crosscompiling.22:57
MaemohammadAG97% [Waiting for headers]22:57
ali1234jebba: under gentoo it isn't much more complicated than ROOT=/foo ARCH=whatever emerge ...22:57
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jebbaMaemohammadAG: outages get filed here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5818  they probably will want to know what IP you're coming from  (ah, and your DNS resolver. Just thought of that, but it'll be usefull)22:58
povbot`Bug 5818: We need servers22:58
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loufoque_is there an android environment for maemo, in order to run android applications?22:58
jebbaali1234: and what does that produce in the end?22:58
simoneb_i am unable to remove or reinstall some packages because they fail with this error: Could not find platform independent libraries <prefix>, Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>, Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>] (etc.etc.) I think that setting $PYTHONHOME may fix them, what should i set it to?22:59
slonopotamusali1234, nowadays it is even simpler thanks to crossdev-wrappers that create proper wrapper script with all variables needed for emerge22:59
ali1234jebba: it produces a chroot for your arch in /foo22:59
jebbai thought that just installed on gentoo, but that's all i've ever done with it. Never made gentoo pacakges.22:59
jebbaah, ya, well a chroot is basically a sandbox.22:59
jebbaor a sandbox is a glorified chroot more like22:59
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ali1234jebba: the chroot is your final root fs. or you can say --buildpackage23:00
leon-argh.. why in the hell does the foreca widget open the browser.. how crappy is that :)23:00
ali1234essentially, emerge can already cross compile stuff just by setting some variables, then it works exactly the same as compiling native23:00
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jebbadah burgers in extras!  (well, next cron run i assume)23:03
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GAN900vdv23:11
GAN900VDVsx, ping?23:11
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wirelessdreameranyone know here if master and monitor mode can be enabled on the n900's wireless card?23:27
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woglindewirelessdreamer I will try qucik build iw23:29
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wirelessdreamerwoglinde: I tried iwconfig wlan0 mode monitor/master after sudo gainroot with no luck23:31
wirelessdreamerwas wondering if there is a modified kernel module that'll enable it23:31
wirelessdreamerI haven't looked into chipset support yet23:31
jebbawirelessdreamer: just a bug closed as WONTFIX about that today since it's something to do with iwconfig, not specific to n90023:33
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wirelessdreamerjebba: does the chipset support it?23:33
woglindeyeah thats why I will try iw23:33
wirelessdreamermaybe can be set with iwpriv23:33
VDVsxGAN900, pong23:35
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mkargarhello | how to install android 2.1 on n900?23:35
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jebbawirelessdreamer: dont know off hand23:37
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wirelessdreamerjebba: thanks23:39
jebbawirelessdreamer: there's also a thread on talk.maemo.org .  Search for wifi hotspot23:39
jebbahttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635023:39
povbot`Bug 6350: getbootstate bricks the device after 17 reboots if there are no normal boots in between them23:39
jebbawirelessdreamer:  sry, bad paste:  http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30916&goto=newpost23:40
N900evilmk8, you do not.23:40
mkargarhello | how to install android 2.1 on n900?23:40
N900evilyou can't23:40
jebbamkargar: i dont think anyone has.23:40
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greenflymkargar: you don't/can't23:40
woglindemkargar wrong channel23:40
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greenflynot that I'd see much of a point of having android anyway, unless there's some special java app you need23:41
mkargargreenfly:it possible in future?23:42
simoneb_i can't uninstall or reinstall or have it to work telepathy-butterfly ... it appears that a long list of dependencies are half-configured and in the same state, how can i recover them?23:42
greenflyif you are a developer the development options are better under maemo, and if you are a Linuxy guy, the Linux environment is actually real and you don't have to jailbreak anything23:42
greenflymkargar: probably not, you will probably have to purchase a device google supports23:42
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woglindehui libnl builds23:43
greenflymkargar: for instance, the droid has similar hardware specs to the n900 and runs android23:43
greenflyat least, I'd say that's the most comparable device out there, hardware-wise23:43
woglindehms23:44
woglindeiw is at dephelper 723:44
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jebbagreenfly: well, you don't have to jailbreak anything, but even if you get it to install you can't charge your battery and such...23:44
greenflyjebba: you might have misunderstood me23:45
mkargargreenfly:are you mean motorola droid?23:45
greenflyjebba: what I'm saying is that under maemo you don't have to jailbreak anything to get access to the Linux underneath23:45
greenflymkargar: yes23:45
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mkargargreenfly:but,it is only for germany!23:46
valdynmkargar: what is only for germany?23:46
greenflymkargar: if a hardware keyboard is important to you, and you want similar specs, then you might have to wait for another phone23:46
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greenflymkargar: it is very unlikely that android will be ported to the n900 any time soon23:47
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ali1234sounds like a challenge23:48
Stskeepswhy unlikely? :P23:49
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Stskeepsi mean, there were people insane enough to do it for n8x0.23:49
mkargarvaldyn:my mean it released only in germany country?ok?23:49
greenflyStskeeps: key phrase is "any time soon"23:50
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greenflyStskeeps: I can see someone doing it, say, in a few years when the shine has warn off their n900 and they want to test things23:50
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VDVsxJaffa, wow, you win @ X-terminal icon, lolol23:50
greenflybut I think most people that are clever like that are either working for android or working for maemo, and likely not for both23:50
greenflybut hey, stranger things have happened23:51
greenflyI'm sure it's possible23:51
ali1234i don't really see any evidence of that23:51
wazd_e63who is insane enough to want android on  n90023:51
ali1234i think most of the people who would do it probably have about 10 phones already23:51
wazd_e63Call the nurse23:51
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greenflyI just don't know why someone would want a castrated linux on their n90023:51
valdynmkargar: i dont get it, phones release late in germany, not "only in germany"23:52
greenflywhen they can have the real thing23:52
jon1012greenfly: to get more apps ?23:53
wazd_e63sheesh23:53
greenflyjon1012: 90% of which just replicate the functionality in a website that their web browser can't manage?23:54
* VDVsx boots android in wazd's e63 23:54
wazd_e63vdvsx, eeew)23:54
jon1012greenfly: websites that need to have super good eyes to see ? (or if they want to pan around during 2 minutes using zoom)23:55
ali1234yeah, those apps make using websites a lot easier on mobiles23:55
mkargargreenfly:ok!ok!what id differents in n900 and android phone hardware's that i can't install android on it?23:55
jon1012greenfly: I love maemo, but you have to give that to android, there are a lot of apps on that :)23:55
greenflyjon1012: if we are going by that then we should all be using iPhones23:55
wazd_e63jon1012, what exactly apps?23:55
ali1234greenfly: not all, just most23:56
greenflyhaving 100x more fart apps doesn't make it a compelling platform to me23:56
jon1012I had an iphone before my n900, and I love my n900, it's not the point23:56
mkargargreenfly:what is...23:56
greenflybeing restricted to programming only in a proprietary version of java doesn't help either23:56
jon1012point it, n900 lacks websites done for it, or a lot of apps... but that will come with time23:56
jon1012point is*23:56
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greenflyhaving a castrated Linux userspace that you have to hack to get access to doesn't attract me either23:56
wazd_e63change the fucking user agent23:57
greenflyit's only "open" if you are comparing it to an iPhone23:57
valdynjon1012: "lacks websites done for it" ?23:57
greenflybut you still have to jailbreak both to have any real fun23:57
valdynjon1012: that totally defeats the purpose23:57
jon1012wazd_e63: yeah... websites done for a normal screen can't work correctly on a screen with such high dpi !23:57
ali1234what i want to know is why should everyone want the same thing?23:58
jon1012oops, valdyn not wazd_e63 :)23:58
ali1234i mean, different people might want different things from their phone, did you consider that?23:58
greenflyali1234: I'm in the maemo channel23:58
valdynjon1012: i still dont get it23:58
greenflyali1234: not in the android or iPhone or general cellphone os channel23:58
valdyn( and i wish i had higher dpi )23:58
greenflyso I'm talking about why I like maemo as a platform over the rest23:58
jon1012valdyn: if I go to normal websites, I have to zoom (or put my eyes very near to the screen)23:58
ali1234greenfly: no, you're slating all the others and causing an argument23:59
valdynjon1012: different dpi does not change that23:59
jon1012valdyn: iphone optimised sites on iphone are easily readable...23:59
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greenflyali1234: I'm talking about why I don't like the others in the context of why I think maemo is superior23:59
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jon1012ok not dpi but "higher resoluton on a lesser physical space"23:59
greenflyali1234: you know, it's /OK/ for people to have a difference of opinion23:59
wazd_e63jon1012, change browser's agent to the aifone23:59
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wazd_e63And be happy23:59

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