IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-01-31

qwerty12_N800no, omapfb output is default00:00
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lcukyeah the params are looking right00:01
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lardman~lart debugging thread issues00:02
* infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking debugging thread issues's head off00:02
lcuk~lart debugging00:03
* infobot accelerates a free AOL cd to 50,000 rpm and lets debugging feel it00:03
lardman+1, especially on ARM00:03
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RST38hlcuk: afaik it uses xv by default00:16
lcukits ok, ive got enough info for now00:17
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lcuk   <<< rotation problem00:25
ssvbRST38h: what uses xv by default?00:28
lcukssvb, it was me asking about mplayer, that link describes the rotation problem and has videos, im trying to let jott know about it as well :)00:29
ssvblcuk: good00:29
lcukthanks for the reminder00:30
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RST38hssvb: mplayer00:34
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RST38hssvb: doesn't it?00:34
ssvbRST38h: no00:34
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ssvbRST38h: it used omapfb output by default, which is the fastest00:34
ssvbRST38h: s/used/uses/00:35
RST38hssvb: From your comments earlier today I misundertood that it used xv00:35
lcukits ok, i forgot what i did when i first noticed it (this is an old observation revisited)00:35
lcuki was too nervous and couldnt explain myself clearly enough back then :)00:36
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ssvbRST38h: though XV can be almost as fast as direct framebuffer in mplayer00:37
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ssvbRST38h, lcuk: XV performance tuning for mplayer:
ssvbthe slowness of XV was indeed colorkey related00:56
ssvbCanola guys may be very interested00:58
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mavhcwhat's xv?01:00
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lcukits magic :) its a video mode which displays video in an overlay and bypasses x11 network elements01:01
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lcukssvb, very cool01:01
lcukglad its identified01:01
lcukim pondering how i would make video work inside something that already opens xv01:02
lcukits not like i can just pass you a pointer01:02
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ssvbmavhc: it's a standard method for video output in linux01:03
mavhcare the codecs in mplayer etc optimised for the ARM/DSP?01:03
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lcukthey are optimized inside the actual lcd hardware itself01:04
ssvbmavhc: for ARM partially yes, for DSP - no01:04
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lcukoops, not they - the video is.. the codecs ssvb answered01:05
ssvblcuk: yes, I have just found it, this colorkey thing was preventing the use of fast blizzard overlay01:05
dobmkfs.vfat decides that I should have a 200M filesystem on a 4G partition (probably because I used to have a 200M fs there), how can I make this right? Should I manually input the blocks-count to mkfs.vfat? What's the block size?01:07
lcukssvb, its always good to solve problems01:09
lcukanyway, early night for me, ive been wiped out for half the week01:09
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lardmanany gstreamer gurus about?01:22
lardmananyone know if a filter which alters the res (down) and framerate (down) will cause significant slowdown?01:23
lardmanor at least slower than doing the res adjustment at the fakesink?01:23
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GAN800How are the mailing list people so clueless? :/01:31
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ZicHmm, I read that the next Maemo release comme with a new hardware : a HD camera, a new ARM processor, and a cellular modem to access to the Internet : this modem is only like 3G access, or GSM too ?01:55
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wazdZic: no gsm01:55
ken-pZic: where did you read that?01:55
Zicken-p: on the last anoucement for the new Fermantle Maemo SDK01:56
Zic(and on Wikipedia about Fermantle)01:56
ken-pthere was news that Nokia had discontinued N81001:56
Zicby the way, I don't want to have a GSM modem in a Nokia Internet Tablet, I have a phone for that01:57
ken-pwill there be an update?01:57
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ZicI have a Freerunner with OpenMoko :)01:57
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benson[away]~lart Pkerown for doing ASCII art of a printer with runaway form-feed.01:57
* infobot beats Pkerown to within 2.54cm of his life for doing ASCII art of a printer with runaway form-feed.01:57
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wazdken-p: wi-max was discontinued, not 810\01:57
ken-pso just the wimax edition?01:58
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wazdken-p: yes01:58
Zicfor now, there is no plan in the future to add a GSM modem to Nokia Internet tablet ?01:58
bensonNo plan they'll talk about.01:58
ken-panyway, are Nokia planning to release an update soon?01:58
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Lamohello, is anyone in here using easy debian? i downloaded the image file to my memory card and extracted the debian-final.img.ext2 file but am not sure of what to do next.01:58
GAN800ken-p, N810 isn't discontinnued.01:58
wazdZic: Let's make clear: I'm talking bout "phone" functionality01:59
wazdZic: like "making a phonecall" :)01:59
Zicwazd: yes, I understand :)01:59
wazdZic: It will have a modem for data transfer01:59
bensonWell, I don't think we'll get GSM data w/o GSM voice, only packet-switched data (GPRS and up).01:59
wazdZic: Don't know exactly would it be 3G only or GPRS/EDGE/3G02:00
Zicwazd: just, for now I own a N800 and maybe I will bui the new hardware which comes with Fermantle, but I own a Freerunner phone (on Linux) too02:00
infobotZic meant: wazd: just, for now I own a N800 and maybe I will buy the new hardware which comes with Fermantle, but I own a Freerunner phone (on Linux) too02:00
bensonHSPA is announced, GPRS is a pocssible inference.02:00
wazdbenson: gprs would be great cause we haven't got 3g :)02:00
mikkov_3g only modem would be utterly stuupid02:01
bensonwazd: Yep; I'm hoping so, too. Don't wanna have to switch to ATT02:01
wazdken-p: release data is not available for now02:01
Zicwazd: so, it's a data cellular modem, not a GSM modem (to make phone call, sending SMS... MMS used data cellular modme I think)02:03
wazdI'm waiting for new UI to start work on next omw :)02:03
wazdZic: yes02:03
Zicgreat, because I'm sure if they add a GSM modem, even if ITT by Nokia can't enter in my pocket, I will try, even if I need to enlarge my pockets :)02:04
wazdZic: how can you judge bout size of upcoming hardware?)02:05
Zicwazd: 770/N800/N810 have not really changed about size02:05
wazdZic: the've added wi-max modem to n810 and it was pretty pocketable)02:05
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wazdZic: and GSM is smaller02:05
Zicwanders: yes, it's pretty pocketable, but lesser than a phones, even if the Freerunner is large :)02:06
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wazdZic: does any other phone has 4.2" screen?02:06
Zic(I'm a geek and I try to persuade myself that I don't do a redundant buying with already own a N800, and buying recently a Freerunner)02:07
Zicthat's all :>02:07
wazdZic: I'm trying to say that lack of GSM is more ideological solution than technical02:07
wazdZic: to kill competition between n9702:08
Zicwazd: yes, and that's a best point02:08
Zicwazd: because even if I need a phone every day in my pocket (and I prefer that this phone is documented and using FOSS software)02:08
ZicI'm feeling free when I use my N800 and shutdown the phone ;-)02:09
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Zicit's my question about existence of this night in fact ;-)02:10
lardmanGAN800: fremantle stuff?02:10
wazdGood choice to have separated phone and PDA is when you're power user02:11
Zicand that's the reason of my question : I prefer that the next ITT of Nokia will not add a GSM modem to make and receive calls02:11
wazdWhen you'll have your PDA battery dry, your phone will be online02:12
Zicbut if you say it's just a data cellular modem, it's great :)02:12
Zicwazd: yes, it's one other reason to me02:12
Zicwazd: it just make me think about that because all friend who own an Internet Tablet of Nokia own a very classical phone02:14
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Zicand recently, I order a FOSS based and documented phone, the OpenMoko Freerunner, so... :)02:15
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Zicexcept from hardware, features are pretty the same of IT of Nokia02:16
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Zicso, here I am and asking some questions tonight :)02:16
Zicthanks for your answers02:17
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Zic(for an example with only Nokia devices, like wazd said, own a N800 and a N97 sounds to be for very specific user (power user))02:23
infobotZic meant: (for an example with only Nokia devices, like wazd said, own a N8*0 and a N97 sounds to be for very specific user (power user))02:24
wazdOwning n97 and n8*0 is a bit overkill :)02:27
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wazdI'd prefer n8*0 and a small phone or n97 alone)02:27
wazdroope: hi02:28
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Zichave to go to sleep, bye, have a nice day or good night too02:31
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wazdIf anyone is still interested - n97 seems to have same TV-out through 3.5mm jack technology as RX-51 seems to have: blet of Nokia own a very classical phone02:33
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wazd<Zic> and recently, I order a FOSS based and documented phone, the OpenMoko Freerunner, so... :)02:33
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wazdwhat the hell02:34
wazdI don't get how this shit happening, sorry)02:34
lardmanwazd: /me bought an n95 output cable while we were fiddling hoping the n8x0 had some hidden tv-out functionality02:35
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wazdlardman: ah, it's not new technology :( I've never heard bout it before)02:36
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lardmanthe n8x0 could probably do the same, but the lines aren't connected02:36
* lardman wonders how he's broken his video display by adding a cap to a different queue02:39
lardmanthe wonders of GStreamer!02:40
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Jucatodoes that n97 come with symbian or maemo? (sorry, noob...)02:45
* Jucato just needs to figure out how to send/receive sms (or even calls) on the n810 through his 6600 and he's set for life02:46
lardmanphonelink or gnokii?02:47
Jucatohm... I'll try those :)02:48
lardmanfor calls, there was a thread on itt (iirc) about doing that, by masquerading as a headset02:48
Jucatothough SMS is more important to me than calls :D02:48
Jucato(my 6600 was used for so many things except calls :D)02:49
lardmanwell those two should do it for you, in fact I think the first wraps the second02:49
lardmanshould be in Garage02:49
Jucatothanks :)02:49
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lardmanif I drop data in a pipeline beyond a tee, does that stall the pipeline further upstream (i.e. will the other side of the tee also be stalled)?02:56
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lardmanI presume not, but my images seem to have vanished :(02:56
bogdanrDid everyone try Mer so far?02:56
bogdanrI want to install Mer on the miniSD card but I can't find any instructions so far02:57
bogdanrCan you plese point me in the right direction02:58
lardmanbogdanr: use the installer02:58
lardmanit asks you where to install it02:58
lardmanit's not end-user friendly mind you02:58
lardmanindeed :)02:59
bogdanrAnd then how can I boot from miniSD?02:59
bogdanrHow do I go into boot menu?02:59
lardmanyou need to install it, again from the Mer instructions03:00
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jaemtimeless: ping!03:26
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lardmannight all03:39
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bogdanrHow do I know if I have Diablo on my tablet?04:20
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jaem_bogdanr: go to the system settings, and click on the top-left icon (I think it's "about", but I don't have my tablet with me04:29
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jaem_it should say there, and if it doesn't, give me the version number, and I'll let you know04:30
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zakkmHey, if i were to sell my Nokia N800, how much do you think i would be able to get? What's its value nowadays?05:31
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ProteousI would sell it for $5, you can email me when you are ready to sell05:32
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zakkmlol i paid $145 for it05:33
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johnxso either the charger for my n800 is done or the charging circuit in my n800 is kaput. :$06:13
GAN800johnx, gotta get a 770 to charge. ;)06:17
johnxheh. should have bought one from you when I had the chance06:18
GAN800Yup, I ended up giving it away for shipping.06:18
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johnxwell, I need to verify that my charging port and charging circuit(s) are ok before dropping more money on one of those pricey external chargers with a screen :P06:20
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johnxNokia: bring back chargers that are a litle more beefy06:24
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luke-jrjohnx: charging circuit?06:32
luke-jrjohnx: that's the binary blob on your N80006:32
johnxi mean the physical hardware in the n80006:32
johnx...that charges the battery06:32
luke-jryou're sure it's not the blob/06:32
johnxpretty sure06:33
johnxit charged intermittently and now won't detect whether the charger is plugged in06:33
luke-jrpretty sure that's the blob's job06:34
luke-jrfigure out how to force it :D06:34
johnxwhat about when the tablet is off?06:34
luke-jrhow about you get a new one and mail me that one? ;)06:35
johnxwell, I assume that the blob isn't running when the kernel isn't running ... soooo I would assume it's a hardware thing06:35
johnxif my tablet is toast it just means I won't be able to test stuff on it ...which will make me cranky, but luckily my zaurus is still going strong06:36
luke-jrI still haven't found mine :/06:37
johnxI'm leaning towards it being a problem with the wall charger though :)06:38
johnxwhich would mean my tablet ate this charger alive in less an a month :)06:40
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zakkmjohnx: i use my old nokia phone charger for my n800, works perfectly?06:45
johnxyeah. It's a little tough finding Nokia chargers here...06:45
zakkmi live in toronto, canada XD06:45
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jaem_johnx: maybe a dumb question, but did you try cleaning the contacts?  I've had those symptoms caused by that before07:50
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AStormwhat was qwerty12's server address again?08:16
vabgeo is this what u want?08:18
b1ackdeathhas any one ported vnstat for the tablets yet?08:19
AStormvabgeo, yes08:20
b1ackdeathanyone? or alternative ?08:22
AStormvncstat? or what?08:23
AStormhmm, nice, I don't think anyone has ported that08:25
AStormas NIT is not a router :>08:25
b1ackdeathi know i was gonna use it to monitor my ppp0 bandwith08:26
b1ackdeathso i know how much i am using08:26
AStormb1ackdeath, should just be a recompile though08:26
b1ackdeathyeah  the dependences are messing me up08:26
AStormwhat are they?08:27
b1ackdeathlibc6  , libgcc108:27
b1ackdeathi found a armel port but i cant get it to work
AStormboth are in08:29
AStormyou need to rebuild the package08:29
AStormI suggest grabbing a person with access to maemo buildbot08:29
AStormand having them submit the source deb08:29
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AStormassuming there is one08:30
AStormalternatively, build it yourself in the scratchbox08:30
b1ackdeathi'll give that a shot08:31
AStormthe lenny package is for the same eabi - should work if force-installed08:32
AStormah, failure08:35
AStormwe have an  older version of glibc here08:35
AStormmer and fremantle will be much fresher though08:36
AStormand mer is compatible with ubuntu jaunty by design08:36
b1ackdeaththis is true yet i have get to install mer tho08:36
AStormif you want to temporarily break your device, sure :)08:37
AStormit still needs a lot of bug catching08:37
b1ackdeathwell on a not on the same partition tho08:39
AStormmight work, yes08:40
AStormbut I'm not sure if it doesn't have a newer kernel08:41
AStormflashing the kernel and initfs is simple though08:42
AStormI guess I'll install Mer myself too.08:43
b1ackdeathyeah i dont think i will be going that far just for one program08:43
AStormmer still *is* the future of maemo (except fremantle, which will be for next nokia NIT at first)08:44
AStorms/nokia NIT/NIT/08:44
infobotAStorm meant: mer still *is* the future of maemo (except fremantle, which will be for next NIT at first)08:44
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jaem_AStorm: are you suffering from RAS Syndrome? :P08:46
jaem_(Redundant Acronym Syndrome Syndrome)08:47
AStormalthough it does rarely happen to me08:47
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RST38hehlo AStorm09:56
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AStormRST38h, 301 Host denied10:04
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Stskeepsqwerty12: is zenity in chinook too btw?10:32
StskeepsMeiz_n810: alive?10:39
qwerty12Stskeeps, morning.
* Stskeeps decided to go with .install for the sake of 0.7, and extras-devel in 0.810:40
Stskeepseven though i'll prolly get murdered for that10:41
qwerty12How come you aren't just putting it in extras-devel now?10:41
Stskeepsi had slightly less time than calculated cos of my fiancées masters thesis defense and all her family and friends coming over :P10:42
Stskeepsand there's some things i agree with fanoush should be altered before we bring it to more mainstream10:43
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qwerty12hehe :P, I'm sure the extras police forgive you ;)10:43
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: yes10:43
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: might have to follow
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Stskeepssure you have latest evdev?10:45
Stskeeps(check version for me will you)10:45
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Stskeepsi notice extras.install from ~extras show no "distribution" or release name10:46
Stskeepsdoes it automatically pick up 'diablo' or 'chinook'?10:46
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: i installed mer yesterday when you asked10:47
qwerty12Yes, a blank distribution field in app manager equals whatever you're running (diablo/chinook)10:47
Meiz_n810not sure if it's the latest10:47
StskeepsMeiz_n810: k - dpkg -l xserver-xorg-input-evdev10:47
Stskeepsdpkg -s :P10:50
Stskeepsbloody long versions10:50
Stskeepsdpkg -s xserver-xorg-input-evdev that si10:51
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Stskeepsthank you10:55
Stskeepsok, is the right one10:55
* Meiz_n810 moifies his xmodmap-keymap a bit...10:57
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Stskeepsyeah, just wondering where the code for it is10:58
Meiz_n810code for what?10:59
Stskeepspondering if he forgot to add it10:59
Stskeepsbasically Fn is keycode 464 and X only supports keycodes < 25510:59
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Meizirkkihi thopiekar11:03
Meizirkkihave you seen this?
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StskeepsMeizirkki: you busy later today? i will need someone to test 0.8 prerelease quickly so11:09
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: i believe there's nothing in the way11:10
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Stskeepsi'll start generating images now then, after testing johnx's new packages11:11
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JaffaMorning, all11:44
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Stskeepsmorning jaffa11:44
qwerty12morning Jaffa11:45
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StskeepsJaffa: think installation works OK after johnx's latest changes11:46
JaffaStskeeps: excellent!11:47
JaffaBTW, is first-setup going to a bg in 0.7?11:48
JaffaFremantle's dialogues-at-bottom makes it look a little... unbalanced11:49
Jaffas/a bg/have a background/11:49
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JaffaCould be a 0.8 thing, with some wazd love - not just a splash but a flashy "self-advert"11:50
Stskeepsyes, 0.7 has a bg, the wallpaper11:51
Stskeepsin f-b-w11:51
JaffaAh, cool.11:51
* Jaffa just had black in that image you gave me, IIRC11:51
Stskeepsa commit got lost so :)11:51
Jaffacool stuff11:51
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RST38hmoo sts11:53
Stskeepsmoo, RST38h11:53
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* RST38h loves that n810 vs n97 thread on itt11:57
* Jucato is reminded to start lurking in itt11:57
RST38h"n810 has a cli and can mount external cdroms, so it is much better and nokia should sell it instead of n97!"11:58
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aquatixRST38h: lol11:58
aquatix ?11:58
RST38hsome people just never ever learn11:58
aquatixah, found it12:00
* aquatix reads12:00
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aquatixMaybe the N97 is a better MID than the N810.12:03
aquatixthe N97 is a *phone*12:03
aquatixwhich i will use happily along with my n810 and/or rx5112:04
aquatix(preferably the latter)12:04
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* Stskeeps pokes maemo-select-location with a stick12:15
* lcukx41 wakes up12:16
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StskeepsMeizirkki: on maemo?12:16
qwerty12morning X-Fade12:16
lcukx41mornin x-fade12:16
X-FadeUgh, pre coffee.12:17
aquatixmorning all :)12:17
* aquatix hands X-Fade a nice cup of strong coffee12:17
qwerty12hi aquatix12:17
lcukx41yeah x-fade, clean your teeth as well12:17
X-Fadelcukx41: Well, did that part already :)12:17
aquatixugh, indeed12:17
X-Fadeaquatix: Thanks. I needed that..12:17
lcukx41aquatix: enough water in the kettle for another?12:19
StskeepsMeizirkki: do me a favour and when you're in maemo, install after uninstalling Mer installer, and see if you can make it install and show up in Utilities?12:19
Stskeepsi suspect my tablet setup is wrecked12:19
aquatixlcukx41: sure12:19
* aquatix hands lcukx41 a nice cup of strong coffee too12:19
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lcukx41cool, i hope its so strong the spoon stands up12:19
* lcukx41 had little sleep12:20
aquatixthe spoon almost melts in it12:20
lcukx41:D mmmm molten stainless steel12:20
MeizirkkiStskeeps: oki12:21
qwerty12Stskeeps, when you have no desktop file in the merinstaller package (looking at merinstaller_1.9.5-mer2_armel.deb), I wouldn't really expect maemo-select-menu-location to work ;)12:22
lcukx41i had my 810 in the pocket of my combats yesterday and nearly smashed it to smithereens12:22
aquatixlcukx41: gives that extra zing to your coffee12:22
aquatixlcukx41: ick12:22
Stskeepsqwerty12: eh. no desktop file?12:22
qwerty12Stskeeps, nothing else either tbh12:22
lcukx41the pocket was near my knee, i wont be doin that again12:23
lcukx41does the merinstaller package work in diablo, and will it work with a 1gb card?12:24
qwerty12Stskeeps, you may just find it a lot easier to use dh_install for this rather than your Makefile setup12:24
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Stskeepsqwerty12: yeah, possibly. feel free to contribute better packaging :P12:25
qwerty12Fine, I've done enough cleaning of my transmission package for now :P12:26
Stskeepsyou should definately have a "make conic stay at these APs"12:26
Stskeepsbtw, xchat would be nice with reconnecting to server when it notices AP has disconnected or changed12:26
lcukx41it does doesnt it?   when it times out12:27
Stskeepslcukx41: takes quite a while12:27
qwerty12That's not a bad idea, I'm always reconnecting manually12:27
lcukx41yeah sts, but thats the internet as a whole12:27
lcukx41if it was too eager you would be kicked out every 10 seconds12:27
lcukx41half the internet is unstable12:27
lcukx41the other half is under x-fades control ;)12:28
X-FadeHeh, not even close :)12:29
lcukx41we are gonna have for the forums, why cant we have
lcukx41x-fade :) trying to help your ego :P12:29
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lcukx41but i dont know anyone who knows enough about irc to be able to set something like that up12:30
lcukx41do you know anyone like that Stskeeps :P ?12:30
qwerty12Meh, Freenode's a lot bigger than what would be and with more servers. Seems kinda lame imho to have an entire server for one chan12:31
Stskeepslcukx41: the amount of trouble needed to run a network and the political problems it brings with it and the problem of attracting interesting new people ..12:31
Stskeepsis bigger than the benefit12:31
X-FadeYeah, freenode is good enough atm..12:31
Stskeepsi'm willing to bet we are attracting a lot of people to maemo community just by the size of this channel12:31
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* lcukx41 knows its inpractical :P12:33
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qwerty12Stskeeps, mind if I change rootsh dependency to "rootsh | becomeroot | easyroot"?12:40
Stskeepsgo ahead, just as long as they work as the same12:41
* Stskeeps uploads mer312:42
qwerty12yeah, I did a quick grep and the only thing used from rootsh is "sudo gainroot" which is provided by the other 2 as well. By doing rootsh | becomeroot | easyroot, it opens it up a bit to people12:42
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: Merinstaller is now installed, but it seems to not show up on menu12:43
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lcukx41 does the merinstaller remove itself once you have done it once?  or does it remain always - ive got an over active 6 year old who clicks lots of random things12:48
Meizirkkiit doesn't remove itself12:50
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lcukx41Meizirkki: i suppose he could install it himself :D12:54
StskeepsMeizirkki: grab mer312:54
JaffaStskeeps: I've marked the "work out HAM brokenness" task to the green block and marked it completed12:55
JaffaIs there a package of zenvoid's sounds for 0.7?12:55
Stskeepsk, you can check vm, sec12:55
Stskeepsnot yet12:56
lcukx41jaffa top banana!12:57
StskeepsJaffa: since we don't have sound yet ;)12:57
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: you want me to test merinstaller mer3 version?13:00
* aquatix boots Mer 0.6 in virtualbox13:00
Meizirkki.install-file worked btw.13:00
aquatixhm, those install dialogs don't accept enter13:01
rzraquatix: which image ?13:01
aquatixthe official virtualbox image from the Mer site13:02
rzrok i have it too13:03
aquatixit's damn snappy on my machine though :)13:04
rzri plan to flash it to my 77013:04
rzrbut i have only 512MB13:05
aquatixSD card?13:05
rzr770 has rsmmc slot13:05
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aquatixheh, nice13:12
StskeepsMeizirkki: just see if it installs OK, as in, not mer install, but installer itself13:13
Stskeepsit points to a missing URL so13:14
Stskeepsaquatix: ctrl-m :P13:14
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aquatixStskeeps: how's that intuitive? :)13:14
MeizirkkiStskeeps: is mer-armel-installer-v0.6.deb the mer3?13:18
StskeepsMeizirkki: if .install worked then mer3 did :)13:19
Stskeepsaquatix: Maemo weird thing13:19
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: i uninstalled merinstaller. then installed it again with .install file. Now i have mer2 version and it doesn't work..
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lcukx41can we make a viable proposal for using n8x0 in space?  i wanna go on a zero g flight :D13:21
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lcukx41"testing whether n810 gps can lock when closer to the constellation"13:22
lcukx41:D x-chat during shuttle liftoff13:23
jaskai wonder how confused gps-receivers get when theyre near or above the constellation?13:25
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lcukx41jaska, depends on how many sats it can see, but from what i know with 2 or 3 reference points you have 2 roots for the solution, but once you get 4 you are only left with 1 reasonable conclusion, but the chipset designers mightv hardcoded it out13:27
lcukx41to stop accidental miscalculations when you are around building and having unfortunate echos13:27
lcukx41"you are at 470000 miles above earth"13:27
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qwerty12morning lardman13:28
lcukx41morning lardman13:28
jaskamany crippled chips dont work after 18km13:28
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lardmanjaska: 18km high?13:28
lcukx41its just a reasonable limit to the calculation13:28
jaskayeah... the actual limit for us-made ones is 60kft and some speed (500km/h or such?) to avoid making cheap cruise missiles13:29
lcukx41yeah lardman, i mentioned nasa are offering free zero g flights i nreturn for a viable space tech proposal13:29
lardmanah, ok13:29
jaskaahh, 999 knots13:30
jaskabut many of them just stop working above the limit because the manufacturers were too cheap13:30
lcukx41its just outside the reasonable bounds13:30
lcukx41there arent many people who need tomtom in their rocket13:30
lcukx41"please make a u-turn as soon as possible"13:31
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jaskawarning, speed camera?13:31
lardman section 1.813:31
jaskanot all of the chips adhere to those limits and some have hackable firmware13:31
lardmanwell this might need to go above 60k'
lcukx41yeah jaska, but realistically its not needed13:32
jaskawell, if you do balloons etc the 18km limit will bite13:32
lcukx41lardman, would your rockets break the bounds?13:33
lardmanlcukx41: no, only small motors13:33
lardmancouple of thousand feet I guess, but no payload for that13:33
jaskathres also the 6G acceleration limit13:33
lcukx41have you seen the waterpowered jetpack ?13:33
lcukx41looks AWESOME!13:33
lardmanlcukx41: no, do you have a url?13:33
lcukx41i would love to go in the open water with it and fly across the ocean13:33
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lardmanlol, that is cool!13:37
lcukx41its awesome!13:37
lcukx41i have installed komodo edit on my ubuntu system here, but its got no menu entry (it was a .tar.gz install) it runs fine from the console - can i just add a menu entry for it?  (still used to shortcuts)13:43
lardmanah, going back to the 1000kt, 18km limits:
qwerty12lcukx41, Yes, System> Preferences > Main Menu > New Item13:44
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lcukx41thanks qwerty13:46
lcukx41lardman, that site lists all the things you cant use - but it looks more like a shopping list for an aeger terrorist13:46
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lcukx41if i wanted to do dev from both maemo side and from x86 using the same folder thats ok isnt it13:55
lcukx41ie sftp from ubuntu and ensure the x86 port works but using the same source as currently does13:55
lcukx41ahh mind you that screws up the binaries13:56
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des^I am testing a programm with sratchbox/xephyr, I want to test if I can open a file, where do I need to put my file that it shows up in one of the folders from the open dialog?14:03
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des^ah thanks14:06
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Stskeepsaquatix: feel like testing a vmdk?14:19
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wazdlo everybody14:28
Stskeepslo wazd14:28
wazdoh, maemo podcast on air, nice14:29
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aquatixStskeeps: sure, but i don't have much time left today14:34
aquatixi can download now though14:34
Macerseason 5 of boston legal was awful14:37
* wazd read bout .apng format. Wazd's happy :)14:39
Stskeepsaquatix: nah, it's ok, new release tomorrow anyhow14:40
aquatixah, great14:40
aquatixkeep me posted :)14:40
aquatixa ping will suffice14:40
aquatixi will likely not be here today anymore14:40
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JaffaStskeeps: downloading now15:10
Macergetting this damn dmg onto a bootable usb drive is a bitch15:13
Maceri seriously have to look around for my osx dvds15:14
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lardmanJaffa: that email ok? as I'm off now15:56
lardmananyway, seems so, have a nice weekend all, might be back on tomorrow15:58
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GAN800Jaffa, my pick stands. I'm too lazy to send another email for now. :p16:16
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johnxw00. new charger16:17
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GAN800johnx, fix the issue, then?16:20
johnxyup :D16:20
johnxit was actually the simple little plug adapter that was b0rken16:21
johnxmy n800 is happily charging now, thank goodness16:23
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johnxRST38h, I've got a phone for you:
MaceN800putting osx back on the macbook16:28
lcukhas netcraft confirmed it?16:28
MaceN800just for an adhoc16:28
lcukMaceN800, what did you have on it16:29
MaceN800wiped osx from it16:29
johnxwhy didn't you just resize?16:29
MaceN800dont like dual booting16:31
MaceN800i kinda hate osx16:31
johnxthen why did you buy a mac?16:32
MaceN800got it for $40016:32
wazdwhoa, 21:9 screen is kinda awesome16:32
JaffaGAN800: bah, you sent another email :-)16:32
MaceN800super ultra wide screen?16:32
wazdthats cinema ratio I think16:33
mavhc21:9 is 2.33:1, anamorphic films are 2.35:1, widescreen are 1.85:116:34
lcukmy god, if regular users get hold of that, they will STILL render regular broadcast definition to it.  and worst of all - they will use the "stretch" formatting cos they dont wanna waste space16:35
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lcuk"i bought a big wide tv and by god im gonna use it"16:36
lcukthey dont care if it looks like pancake head city16:36
mavhcheh, google's added This Site May Harm your computer to every result16:36
lcukstop searching for"virus installer" then16:37
mavhcI test searched for [Google]16:37
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lcukoh yeah16:38
lcuki use a nomiddleman script usually to cut out redirects so never notices16:38
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GAN800Jaffa, managed to get a free moment at the computer. ;)16:38
MaceN800lcuk, haha16:40
MaceN800yah. stretching kinnda sucks16:40
mavhcpeople don't care about quality16:41
sisto1i guess it's a disclaimer, every site may harm your computer16:41
mavhcthis site contains so much javascript it may overheat your computer16:42
jaskagoogles skynet went nuts16:42
MaceN800what an abortion16:42
mavhcyeah, java's so slow it won't even run real time games on my low end phone16:43
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wazdokay, I think I have enough technology to kick every weather applet's ass with OMWeather :)16:49
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wazdHTC will beg for mercy >:D16:50
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JaffaAny Greasemonkey scripts yet for getting rid of that irritating waste of space16:55
JaffaAh, it's broken malware. Google for "Google" and you get a whole load of phishing site warnings16:56
infobotJaffa meant: mavhc:
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JaffaTop story on /.16:59
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mavhcdoesn't top = latest anyway?16:59
lcukjaffa, i use something evolved from nomiddleman - its a greasemonkey script which gets rid of redirects :)17:00
lcuktop story on tech.17:01
lcukjust hit the front now17:01
lcukyou must be a subby :P17:01
JaffaStskeeps: that image you sent me does *not* have an auto-present ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager so installation would still be broken.17:02
Jaffalcuk: nope, maybe just a cache issue17:02
qwerty12_N800Jaffa, can't you just set the assume connection flag directly in the source?17:03
johnxJaffa, hmm? let me make sure I committed that17:03
Jaffaqwerty12_N800: I could, but a real replacement for libconic/icd should be done17:03
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qwerty12_N800Jaffa, yeah, I've been moaning about conic :)17:04
des^some hacked google *lol*17:05
johnxJaffa, can you run apt-cache poilcy hildon-desktop-env ?17:06
Jaffajohnx: yup, one sec17:07
MeizirkkiJaffa: app-manager not working for you in Mer?17:08
Jaffajohnx: 0.2-10 is only one available, and it's the installed version17:08
JaffaMeizirkki: the 'assume-connection 1' tweak wasn't in the vmdk image Stskeeps sent me this morning17:09
johnxcan you grep -i assume /usr/bin/start-hildon ?17:09
MeizirkkiJaffa: k17:09
Jaffajohnx: Yeah, seems to be in there. I'll debug the command - I did write it without testing. It's also in there twice, BTW17:10
johnxyeah, just noticed that too17:11
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dick-richardsongreat job on FLOSS Weekly!17:11
Jaffajohnx: hmm, it's there now. WTF17:11
Jaffajohnx: ahhhh, hang on - does first-boot-wizard go through start-hildon? I've rebooted and now it's working17:12
johnxthe process goes: x starts -> f-b-w > x starts again -> star-hildon17:12
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Jaffajohnx: hmm. Very odd then, at end of f-b-w, there was no ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager. Closed down tidily with sudo shutdown -h now; you asked me to check policy; so I restarted VirtualBox and the file was now present.17:15
johnxah, durr :)17:16
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johnx~/.osso doesn't exist when start-hildon is run first :)17:17
infobotjohnx: that's too long17:17
Jaffajohnx: ah, I wondered if that might be it17:17
johnxI'll fix it right now17:17
johnxdid Stskeeps already build 0.7 images?17:17
t_s_oodd, as a experiment i have both advanced battery and the default battery icon displayed, and the default keeps getting highlighted, as if it was tapped and displaying the time calculation...17:18
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Jaffajohnx: no, just a current state for testing17:19
Jaffajohnx: stick a mkdir in at the top of start-hildon and remove the duped line?17:19
johnxin progress17:19
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Jaffajohnx: cool, ta.17:21
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t_s_oheh, reading old userfriendly strips produce some interesting thoughts...17:25
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t_s_owonder why personal menu suddenly decided to not show the mnotes icon...17:27
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zeenixtimeless: why don't you want to disclose your name?17:49
gomiamzeenix: please understand, timeless has little kids, and there is no easy way to explain being a Maemo software developer ;)17:54
zeenixgomiam: right17:54
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StOrM_NWhey all, i having troubles to integrate dbus with hildondesktop.StatusbarItem ... any website explaining the process ... i m programming in python18:28
StOrM_NWany help really appreciate18:28
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Meiz_merepiphany-gecko works so well.. xulrunner have probably been updated lately.18:46
mikkov_StOrM_NW: you could probably use advanced-power as an example18:46
StOrM_NWok, thanks18:46
StOrM_NWmikkov_, what' s the name of the package that contains advanced-power ... so i can get the source?18:48
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StskeepsJaffa: worked for me but ok if we COA19:28
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* b-man is suprised to see how many ubuntu users liked ubuntu-rescue-menu - thay want him to make a x86/amd64 version19:42
* RST38h is back again19:43
t_s_ohmm, so far it really looks like swapping out those noname SD's with kingston ones helped my standby time19:45
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Stskeepsjohnx: HDE safe now?20:17
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JaffaStskeeps: COA?20:18
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lcukRST38h, bbiab droppin tracy in manchester20:28
StskeepsJaffa: cover our asses;)20:29
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* wazd don't know what he wants(20:32
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b-manStskeeps: i'll be uploading merinstaller_1.9.6-1mer3 - this new version includes an updated icon and is now built with the dpkg-buildpackage method ;)20:35
RST38hwazd: money? =)20:37
wazdRST38h: well, that's an option :)20:38
wazdRST38h: I'm just sitting and watching 256x256 white square)20:39
timelE61ihEy, who owned mer's xchat?20:40
sp3000the x button owned mer's xchat20:41
* timelE61i wants to know if it was fixed20:41
qwerty12_N800timelE61i, me20:42
timelE61iotherwise i need to file bugs after dinner20:42
timelE61iQwerty: can i give you bugs via irc or do you want official ones?20:42
* timelE61i sighs20:42
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* timelE61i asked for salmon and pasta20:42
qwerty12_N800timelE61i, are these bugs specific to Mer's xchat?20:43
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timelE61isp3000: what part of that means "seafood w/ shrimp" in this strange land of yours?20:43
timelE61iQwerty: i don't use xchat anywhere else20:43
timelE61iOne is a path botch some places had /home/timeless and some /home/user20:44
timelE61iThat seems mer-ish20:44
timelE61iThe other was the big x button in the bottom left corner which causes the app to die20:44
qwerty12_N800urgh. that is bad.20:45
timelE61iThe browser doesn't have such a button, not even in full screen20:45
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qwerty12_N800thanks, I'll note those bugs down :). Got any more for me? :)20:46
timelE61iDunno, sp3000, did i?20:46
timelE61iThe status area behavior is imo unfortunate20:47
timelE61iSingle tap to hide the app...20:47
sp3000those are the two I remember20:47
timelE61iIt's very un-maemo20:47
timelE61iOh, the pain to <enter> thing20:47
timelE61iCould you respond to both enter and return?20:48
qwerty12_N800that should be doable20:48
timelE61iMy laptop doesn't have a numpad which made actually using xchat painful20:49
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b-manmerinstaller 1.9.6-mer3 uploaded to
timelE61ioDD Versioning...20:56
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Stskeepsb-man: k, give me the differences using bzr diff instead21:06
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Stskeepsor ask to join mer-committers21:07
Stskeepscos i did some changes earlier21:07
b-manok, i'll join mer-committers :)21:09
Stskeepsand then bzr get lp:~mer-committers/m-r/merinstaller, apply your changes, bzr commit -m "log message" ; bzr push lp:~mer-committers/m-r/merinstaller to share with us others21:10
Stskeepsdid you fix too?21:10
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b-mani not yet, i'm working on it ;)21:13
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Stskeepswhat changes i did21:18
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Stskeepsb-man: besides the problem there was with the packaging, and the current "no fat" problem, there's nothing otherwise wrong?21:21
b-manbesides the bootmenu item creation prosess (witch i havn't tested), i don't believe so21:24
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b-manhmm, it looks like merinstaller interrupts after it asks for a wget url..21:28
dobb-man: do you still download the file to disk first?21:29
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b-mandob: yes21:30
dobb-man: I found you could just stay with wget by doing 'wget -O - url | tar xzf -'21:30
* b-man adds that to his next version of merinstaller ;)21:32
dobb-man: though the man page says "Including this option automatically sets the number of tries to 1."21:32
dobI wonder why that is... :/21:32
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b-manStskeeps: i dont seem to have that problem in 1.9.6-mer3.. hmm...21:39
Stskeepsb-man: yeah, get the bzr and use that as reference21:39
Stskeepsheh, so far :P big list21:39
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timelesshey, does mer have a .ico?21:42
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b-manyou mean iso image?21:43
timelessno i mean a .ico for my vmware shortcut21:43
* timeless goes to find the .ico editor on this system21:44
Stskeepsdidn't make such a small one yet :P21:44
* timeless can't remember where it lives21:44
timelessum, you should make a .ico w/ 16x,32x,48x,64x21:44
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Stskeepshehe, wazd can prolly be convinced in some way :P21:45
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* b-man applys for mer-committers and waits for Stskeeps for Stskeeps to approve the membership21:48
b-manahhh, i hate this keyboard21:48
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timelesswhere should i put a .ico?22:13
JaffaBah, Midgard page editing is *really* slow on atm22:13
Jaffatimeless: to do what?22:13
timelessfor people to have22:13
* timeless tries to remember which password the wiki uses22:14
qwerty12_N800when you find out, let us know please22:15
timelessyou can't upload .ico's to the wiki?22:16
timelessok, how do i upload a .ico to this stupid wiki? :)22:18
JaffaWhat are the URLs to the Extras repo install files?22:18
Jaffatimeless: turn it into a PNG22:18
timelessjaffa: that defeats the purpose22:18
timelesspng's generally only have 1 frame at 1 res22:18
timelessico's let you have N frames at N res's22:18
timelessok, i give up,
qwerty12_N800Jaffa, the installs for the individual packages?22:23
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timelessqwerty: so... when do i get a new xchat? :)22:23
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qwerty12_N800timeless, when i'm at a computer with free time :)22:24
RST38hazerty12: helo22:24
qwerty12_N800fxt38h: ehlo22:25
timelessqwerty: hey...22:25
timelesscould you get xchat to have a second line in the task list?22:25
* RST38h is heroically forcing himself to work on 65816 core and failing22:25
timelesspreferably w/ the rest of the window title22:25
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Meiz_n810My n810 has some problem. it refuses to mount internal card :(22:26
RST38hheaders - done. main() - done. memory layout manager - done. smc loader - done.22:26
RST38hcpu core - @%^$#$^22:26
qwerty12_N800timeless, I've been wanting to figure that one out actually for a while and keep on failing :/22:26
qwerty12_N800RST38h, ouch :/22:26
timelessfwiw, mer isn't very fast on my poor laptop :(22:27
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timelesspeople wondered if i was emulating arm22:27
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timelessit was quite embarassing22:27
RST38hThe whole 65816 datasheet looks like a manual on how to fuck up your CPU architecture22:27
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Meiz_n810filemanager says my internal sd is broken22:29
Meiz_n810it's not22:29
Meiz_n810it works only if i mount it manually22:29
qwerty12_N800Is your swap file corrupt?22:30
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Meiz_n810qwerty: nope22:31
Meiz_n810but swap isn't used automatically.22:31
qwerty12_N800in maemo?22:32
Meiz_n810does that look correct?22:33
qwerty12_N800in maemo, if there is a /media/mmc2/.swap file, it is always enabled at boot time or when inserting a memory card in the internal slot (on N800) with a .swap file22:33
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* Meiz_n810 reboots22:36
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Meiz_n810qwerty12_N800: i am using cloned maemo, does that kill internal memorycard automount?22:39
qwerty12_N800it didn't for me22:39
Meiz_n810it used to work for me too earlier...22:39
Meiz_n810is there a possibility to run commands automatically when maemo boots?22:42
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timelessyou should be able to attach a usb cable22:43
timelessand then destroy the .swap file before the os really boots22:43
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Meiz_n810so there _is_ .swap file?22:44
timelessi wouldn't know22:44
timelessbut if there is one...22:45
Meiz_n810i have just formatted that card, no .swap there.22:45
Meiz_n810But i can make personal-menu item for mounting the internal SD :P22:45
* qwerty12_N800 has fun with the joys of shell scripting & zenity. I knew there was a reason I uploaded zenity to Extras ;)22:48
timeless"No settings available"22:49
* b-man jumps in joy when his linux magazine finaly arrives22:50
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b-manwoho, i got an ubuntu 8.10 install disk :D22:51
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RST38hqwerty: Make a mail client! In bash! =)22:54
qwerty12_N800RST38h, i can't promise that it would work better than modest :p22:58
RST38hqwerty: making it work better than modest shouldn't be that difficult...22:59
* timeless chuckles23:00
timeless"%s wants to add you to his contact list. Allow this and also add %s to your "23:02
timeless"contact list?"23:02
* timeless thought nokia was very careful about gender issues23:02
timelessoh wow23:04
timelesswe have a dialog w/ yes/no in it? what's this world coming to?23:04
lcukquick, change it to cancel/allow23:04
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* timeless rotfl23:05
timelesswe have code which knows the difference between 1 and !123:05
timelessbut it still uses (s) for the !1 case23:06
* timeless frowns23:06
timelesswhat would you call an 'mp3 file'?23:06
timelessis it a 'sound', a 'music file', an 'audio file', a 'clip'?23:06
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qwerty12_N800a 'clip' makes me think of video more23:10
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* timeless nods23:10
timelessthere's no way i'm using clip23:11
timelessclip is obviously what nokia chose :)23:11
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timelessso, thoughts?23:16
lcuki think audio file23:19
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qwerty12_N800a 'music file' seems a bit specific to me23:19
timelessIf you click 'previous'23:19
timelessyou may get an info banner:23:20
timeless"No previous audio file"23:20
lcukquestion: why can you click back if there is nothing to go back to23:20
timeless(currently you get "No previous clips" [plural for no reason, other than to annoy me and be wrong..]"23:20
timelessin the browser?23:20
lcuksurely the UI should disable the button in that instance unless its wrapping round23:20
lcukyou are using the browser for listening to your mp3 files now?23:21
* lcuk just makes some toast in the kettle23:21
timelesswhere can you click back?23:22
timelessthe nokia ui spec says that we give feedback whenever you click disabled widgets23:22
timelessso people have to invent useless text for such cases23:22
Proteoustoast in a kettle?23:22
ProteousI hate greyed out controls that you can't figure out why it won't let you use23:23
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timelessproteous: what, you don't like how 'chat' always says 'Not available' no matter which grayed out widget you click?23:24
bensonSuggestion: "This button's disabled, numbskull!"23:24
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timeless"Just because this is a touchscreen doesn't mean you should touch everything"23:24
bensonIMHO, while you may get more specific, you're not likely to get more useful.23:24
bensonMaybe it's a good thing I didn't write the UI spec, though...23:25
timelesswell, in the case i hit in chat, the reason was "User is already in contacts"23:25
timelessand i sure wish it could have seen that error23:25
timelesssadly it's a generic error string, so I, as a localizer, can't fix it23:25
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dick-richardsonis there a way to change canola to display items by date?23:27
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* timeless grumbles23:29
timeless"Unable to play sound.\n"23:29
timeless"Audio currently in use."23:29
* timeless wonders what this means23:29
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* timeless wonders what an 'audio' is23:30
bensonIDK, everything gets mixed through esd and gstreamer, so you shouldn't face blocked sound device.23:31
bensonBut it sounds like that's what it means...23:31
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* timeless selects 'Sound system is busy.'23:33
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* benson hesitates... then clicks Continue.23:35
bensonI now own an N810!23:35
* Proteous cheers23:37
timelessTitle of a dialog23:43
timeless"Add e-mail addr."23:43
* timeless grumbles23:43
lcukwhats the spec for default title lengths though23:44
bensonTypo, they left out the 'e' in 'adder'.23:44
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lcukbenson - w00t @ 81023:44
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bensonWe'll see if I regret it... ;)23:45
bensonBut I think it'll be fun.23:45
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genewitchif anyone has a chance can they explain how to reset my n800? i just got it today from a user on ebay and i don't know the root password for apt-get usage, et al23:52
genewitchit's not "rootme" "root" or "fakeroot"23:52
timelessssh-keygen -t rsa23:53
timelessdon't give a password23:53
genewitchtimeless: speaking to me23:54
genewitchnot found23:54
timelessthen install
timelessinstall openssh-server23:55
dick-richardsonor install sudser from the application manager23:55
dick-richardsonand type sudo su -23:55
dick-richardsonthen passwd and set it23:55
timelesslots of ways to skin the cat23:55
timelessmy way lets you ssh to root@localhost and then use passwd23:55
dick-richardsonalthough, honestly I'd reflash a unit off ebay23:55
timelessyeah, dick's right23:55
genewitchdick-richardson: that will work for me23:56
genewitchis that howto on maemo.org23:56
dick-richardsonyep, very straighforward23:56
genewitchi dont know why i am using irssi on a remote shell to talk here23:56
timelessoops, han just got encased in carbonite and i missed it23:56
dick-richardsonthat's a great part23:57
* timeless reaches for the remote23:57
dick-richardson#3 had me rolling23:57
genewitchwhere on maemo are the flashing instructions? diablo mentions it, and OS2008, but there's no link to click23:59
dick-richardsonwhich os are you running on your desktop?23:59

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