IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-03-26

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Veggen	elb: why wouldn't I want Alt_L on something and Mod1 to Alt_L?	00:00
m-c	koyote: television stations are broadcasting digital signals these days... wonder if the N800 will ever be able to tune the shows there	00:00
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elb	Veggen: you can do that, sure	00:01
elb	(and there's no real downside)	00:01
m-c	... would need a tuner + MPEG2 decoder in one application	00:02
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elb	m-c: the n800 tuner almost certainly doesn't provide the necessary bandwidth	00:05
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m-c	elb: huh - never considered the bandwidth on a tuner...	00:05
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elb	basically all a tuner is is a notch filter of a particular bandwidth and center ;-)	00:06
elb	plus some goop to extract the signal from its carrier and center it somewhere useful	00:06
Veggen	hmm. worked, but keystroke was awkward.	00:07
elb	hmmm notch filter is not the right term, it's the reverse of a notch	00:07
Veggen	think I want ctrl-shift and not fn-shift	00:07
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Veggen	eek. that had side effects, fn-shift to Alt_l	00:10
Veggen	suddenly, my bare fn stopped working.	00:10
elb	uh oh ;-)	00:10
elb	I use Fn+shift for ]	00:11
Veggen	and I need an exclamation-mark.anyone	00:11
elb	which is probably a bad binding	00:11
elb	but I need Ctrl-]	00:11
elb	!	00:11
Veggen	thanks :)	00:13
Veggen	my fn key back.	00:13
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Veggen	I put { and [ back where the ( is. chr+k for { and chr+shift+k for [	00:14
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m-c	http://www.hackerstickers.com/products/frogpad-bluetooth-mini-keyboard.shtml	00:14
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pupnik	you know the USA has overthrown the got in somalia?	00:15
pupnik	yeah, they overthrew a stable govt!	00:15
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m-c	"the got" ?	00:15
pupnik	the washington post said	00:16
pupnik	there were three al quaeda in somalia	00:16
pupnik	so the cia got the ethopian army to invade	00:16
Veggen	elb: your keystroke is a little awkward on mine, but possible :)	00:16
pupnik	and hundreds of thousands of people have fled!	00:16
pupnik	it's really fun!	00:16
elb	Veggen: where did you put ]?	00:16
Veggen	chr+shift+l	00:17
Veggen		00:17
elb	hmmm I didn't know chr could work that way	00:17
elb	is that an additional xkb hack?	00:18
m-c	pupnik: you can find an audience for your discussion in #politics	00:18
Veggen	elb: I took away the popup on chr.	00:18
pupnik	nah	00:18
pupnik	shitloads of people getting killed	00:18
Veggen	elb: maps th keys I need directly instead.	00:18
pupnik	i don't respect borders	00:19
Veggen	there's enough keys to take from :)	00:19
* koyote grins		00:20
koyote	let's get into fm versus am, ssb, cw, and phase modulation!	00:20
elb	pupnik: do you have some sort of source for this?	00:22
elb	I'm interested in it, but ... "the US invaded" versus "the Ethiopian army invaded" are two very different things	00:22
elb	that leaves aside calling the Somalian government "stable", of course ;-)	00:23
Veggen	elb: setting COMP to ISO_Level5_Shift and modifier_map Mod3 to ISO_Level5_Shift and you can map keys on chr and chr+shift too. and maybe chr+shift+fn	00:23
pupnik	elb yes it was all usa	00:24
Veggen	see EIGHT_LEVEL-examples in standard xkb map.	00:24
elb	is that a source?	00:24
elb	Veggen: yeah, I'm using some eight-level mappings, but only as a side effect	00:25
pupnik	no it is a challenge	00:25
elb	but my Chr key bound to the menu	00:25
pupnik	i am a qualified commentator	00:25
elb	I see	00:25
elb	Veggen: assume there was a verb in that last sentence ;-)	00:26
Veggen	elb: oh? I don't need a menu key. I bound the original menu key to the left to Ctrl_L instead and had myself an extra ctrl.	00:26
pupnik	elb antiwar.com is the source	00:26
elb	I meant the Chr menu thing	00:26
elb	not the menu menu	00:27
pupnik	listen to the interviews for the past year	00:27
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elb	I actually use the menu key pretty often	00:27
pupnik	and then get back to me	00:27
elb	I doubt I could take a year's worth of propaganda in one sitting	00:27
Veggen	elb: yah, I don't :) or I decided to bind it all in xkb instead.	00:27
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pupnik	elb did the CIA overthrow the iranian government in 1953?	00:28
elb	I'm sure it did	00:28
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elb	there is no world strife but that caused by the US government, of course	00:29
elb	Hitler and Stalin were merely pawns in the US bid for world domination	00:29
pupnik	you dumb fuck, the mainstream news is the propaganda	00:29
KotCzarny	hehe	00:29
pupnik	it is pure lies	00:29
KotCzarny	hitler was a good friend of us	00:29
elb	nice	00:30
KotCzarny	he just wanted to speed up nwo	00:30
KotCzarny	in his own way	00:30
* m-c ignores.		00:30
elb	I like how you moved directly to ad hominem without even a single sentence of logical defense	00:30
elb	I think we're done here	00:30
pupnik	i deal in shorthand with shitiots	00:30
pupnik	massive propaganda apparatus	00:31
elb	I see	00:31
KotCzarny	same with mao	00:31
pupnik	elb denies it	00:31
pupnik	shorthand	00:31
elb	what did I deny, exactly?	00:31
elb	help me understand	00:31
pupnik	USA invading somalia	00:31
elb	in fact, I did no such thing	00:31
elb	in actuality, I asked for information on the matter	00:31
elb	but you were too busy being offended a priori to provide useful information, as far as I can tell	00:32
elb	then came the blind name-calling	00:32
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elb	so, yeah ... I'm done here	00:32
pupnik	they just bombed somalia	00:33
pupnik	sorry you're uninformed	00:33
KotCzarny	anyone is?	00:33
KotCzarny	hardly	00:33
pupnik	it's just a prod to investigate yourself	00:33
elb	why don't you provide information, instead of spewing vitriol	00:33
pupnik	http://www.google.com/search?q=usa+bombed+somalia&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=Swiftfox:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a	00:34
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pupnik	http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-12-24-ethiopia-somalia_x.htm	00:34
pupnik	http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-04-24-somalia_N.htm	00:34
pupnik	http://www.plnewsforum.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/30056/	00:34
pupnik	http://uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/e041da4b-d4a3-49e2-8354-54037f5c758e	00:34
elb	oh, you're talking about YEARS ago	00:34
pupnik	http://en1.chinabroadcast.cn/2947/2008/03/03/1321@329489.htm	00:34
pupnik	http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/archive/index.php/t-98955.html	00:35
pupnik	\http://noisyroom.net/blog/2006/12/25/ethiopian-forces-bomb-somalias-two-main-airports/	00:35
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elb	the fact that you barged into #maemo with this information led me to believe you were speaking of a new initiative	00:35
pupnik	http://www.antiwar.com/lind/?articleid=10277	00:35
pupnik	http://www.antiwar.com/bock/b042903.html	00:36
pupnik	http://www.antiwar.com/eland/?articleid=10793	00:36
pupnik	http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=10238	00:36
elb	(sorry guys, I should never have encouraged him)	00:36
pupnik	http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9233	00:36
pupnik	http://www.antiwar.com/orig/baroud.php?articleid=11934	00:36
pupnik	http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=10299	00:36
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pupnik	http://www.antiwar.com/rothschild/?articleid=9152	00:36
pupnik	http://www.antiwar.com/blog/category/africa/somalia/	00:37
pupnik	http://www.antiwar.com/orig/aden.php?articleid=12111	00:37
pupnik	http://www.antiwar.com/orig/browne.php?articleid=10793	00:37
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pupnik	the USA is engaging in proxy war in somalia	00:38
pupnik	the country had just recovered from decades of civil war	00:39
pupnik	the regional islamists had restored a modicum of peace and stablitiy	00:39
pupnik	and begun to create a new civil society	00:39
lcuk	the us is involved in a lot of things they shouldn't be, but this isn't a political channel	00:39
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pupnik	that was not acceptable to the herren in the usa	00:39
pupnik	sorry. hundreds of thousands of dead	00:39
pupnik	my country at fault	00:39
pupnik	thought i should let you know	00:40
pupnik	like. you know	00:40
pupnik	a good opponent to the nazis	00:40
pupnik	it's not politics	00:40
pupnik	just informing of genocide	00:41
pupnik	peace	00:41
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Veggen	hmmm. I can't have two modifiers on same key. nuts, where to put alt ?	00:41
elb	Veggen: you can put two modifiers on the same key using xmodmap	00:41
elb	I don't know how to do it in xkb	00:41
Veggen	not in xkb?	00:41
elb	probably, but I don't know how	00:41
Veggen	well. they seem to interfer when I try.	00:42
koyote	huh	00:43
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Veggen	elb: an example?	00:47
Veggen	did interfer when I tried.	00:47
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elb	for xmodmap?	00:48
Veggen	yah.	00:48
elb	add Alt_L = (keysym)	00:48
elb	all Meta_L = (keysym)	00:48
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Veggen	elf: I want Mod1 to shift-ctrl and (obviously) ctrl to a bare ctrl.	00:49
Veggen	can I do that?	00:49
elb	oh, wait ... you're trying to do the opposite of what I just said, then?	00:50
Veggen	yah.	00:50
elb	err, no	00:50
* elb is a bit confused		00:50
elb	you can't bind mod1 to other modifiers	00:50
elb	you would have to bind a keysym to other modifiers	00:51
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elb	keys and modifiers are entirely orthogonal	00:51
Veggen	well, yah.	00:51
elb	and ... I'm not sure if a single key can trigger more than one modifier or not	00:51
Veggen	didn't seem like.	00:51
elb	a single keysym can trigger more than one keycode	00:52
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elb	err, wait ... a single keycode can trigger more than one keysym	00:52
elb	curse this terminology ;-)	00:52
elb	X keyboard handling is about the most baroque thing I've ever dealt with	00:52
Veggen	I only just started xkb hacking, was used to more xmodmap before, but never got the hang of modifiers.	00:53
elb	ok, so, if you have a particular keysym, you can put it on both Ctrl and Shift	00:53
elb	doing precisely what I said above, with two add lines	00:54
koyote	did we just lose part of the ice sheet?	00:54
Veggen	sure. but that would lose me either ctrl or shift ? :)	00:54
elb	ice sheet?	00:54
Veggen	I'm trying tongain a modifier here.	00:54
Veggen	to gain.	00:55
koyote	elb: big frozen water masses in antartica	00:55
elb	all right, let me look and see what you're trying to do, again :-)	00:55
koyote	don't worry about it. glboal warming is a myth	00:55
elb	koyote: hah I thought you were referencing something to do with maemo	00:55
koyote	no, my wife just sent me a KSR bingo sms	00:55
elb	so you want the keystroke shift+ctrl to produce mod1 instead of shift and control	00:56
elb	I think you'd have to give up another key for that, actually	00:56
Veggen	elb: nuts. maybe I need to give up my precious left ctrl.	00:56
elb	it surprises me if there was global warming-related loss of part of the ice sheet this year, in particular, since this year is the coldest worldwide winter on record in half a century	00:56
elb	Veggen: good luck with that	00:56
elb	I think when I looked, the keycode for left and right ctrl was the same	00:57
koyote	http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/03/080325-antarctica-photo.html	00:57
Veggen	elb: there is no left ctrl.	00:57
Veggen	I mapped it to the menu key.	00:57
elb	ahh	00:57
Veggen	but I needed a ctrl to be there :)	00:57
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elb	huh, that says antarctica saw massive melt this year	00:59
elb	I wonder why that is	00:59
koyote	no idea	00:59
koyote	some gaseuous vertebrate	00:59
koyote	s divine will	00:59
elb	I mean in the context of the fact that this is an anomalously cold year worldwide	01:00
elb	one would have expected massive melt, say, last year	01:00
elb	although perhaps the southern summer is not as cold as the northern winter	01:00
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elb	"global warming" may be a long-term answer, but it's a stupid rejoinder to short-term questions	01:02
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koyote	not entirely	01:02
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koyote	after all, when you ask a question likely to be answered by global warming, there's a problem with the question	01:03
koyote	so, why did the shelf collapse? that's not a good question.	01:03
koyote	it's 6 doctoral theses to adequately explain.	01:03
Paavo	the temperatures vary in funny ways. in finland this has been the warmest winter in recorded history	01:03
Paavo	in fact, there _was no winter_ according to the thermal definition	01:04
elb	yes, temperatures over history are almost entirely unpredictable	01:04
Veggen	Paavo: it's actually white and snowy on the ground outside here now. we have a mild coastal clima here on west cost of Norway...	01:05
elb	but nonetheless, I am wondering if the antarctic was freakishly warm this year	01:06
Paavo	and tomorrow it's going to be very white and very snowy here as well. something like 10-20 cm snowfall predicted for tomorrow	01:06
elb	the arctic was not, but I don't know of any reason why the poles should behave alike	01:06
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Paavo	this is after seeing green grass and over +5 temperatures in february	01:07
koyote	see, one warm year isn't enough to lose hundreds of square miles of a continent like that	01:07
koyote	it's a lot more chaotic and complicated.	01:07
Paavo	http://outside.hut.fi/year.html <- compare this year with last year	01:07
elb	yes, but the probability of a massive collapse is going to be higher in a warm year than a cold year, all other things being equal	01:08
elb	but what I actually asked about was the local ice melt	01:08
elb	not the collapse itself	01:08
elb	floating ice melt will be much more directly related to air and water temperatures	01:09
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elb	Paavo: wow	01:09
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koyote	maybe i should move to finland	01:12
koyote	at this rate the sacramento valley is going to be deadly	01:13
Paavo	note february 2007 and the -18 C average over 24 hours. that meant that the night was a bit chilly.	01:13
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elb	koyote: you have a long way to go before that	01:14
koyote	much colder than the part of iceland i lived in, actually	01:14
elb	we're still several degrees away from the middle ages	01:14
elb	I probably wouldn't sell into this housing market on account of it ;-)	01:15
koyote	elb: oh, i dunno. we've had some pretty amazing heat streaks here. and the lower winter snowpack is really hurting us	01:15
koyote	we could dustbowl and go 45 all summer easily within 5 years	01:15
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elb	dustbowl is more likely to be a vegetation destruction problem than a temperature problem, at this point	01:16
elb	(like the western plains)	01:16
koyote	not here.	01:16
koyote	no snowpack, no water.	01:16
koyote	as i said before, it's complicated. you can't two word sound byte this stuff	01:16
elb	was the sacramento valley a dustbowl in the middle ages?	01:17
koyote	no, but it had no heat retention due to several million people and it was completely forested	01:17
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koyote	complicated.	01:17
elb	right, vegetation destruction	01:17
elb	I think I already said that ;-)	01:18
koyote	was the sahara BIGGER than it is now in the "middle ages"? no	01:18
koyote	but without the temperature problem, the sacramento valley has been fairly stable	01:18
koyote	we cut the forests down, yes, but not to pave them. we grow a signifigant portion of the world's food here.	01:19
KotCzarny	pf	01:20
elb	yes, that area of the country earned us the Asian name of "rice country"	01:20
KotCzarny	90% of the population is going to die anyway	01:20
KotCzarny	according to nwo plans	01:20
KotCzarny	so it doesn't matter	01:20
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koyote	i have kids. it matters	01:22
KotCzarny	only for you	01:23
KotCzarny	'single cell doesn't matter in an organism'	01:23
Paavo	oh well, death rate per capita is 1 anyway	01:24
koyote	i don't buy the gould/skinner crap. :)	01:24
KotCzarny	:)	01:24
koyote	we're gods. we should be treated and treat each other as such	01:24
KotCzarny	yup	01:24
KotCzarny	but there are few that are addicted to power	01:25
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KotCzarny	and have plans for the rest	01:25
KotCzarny	:)	01:25
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Kekerot	anyone know where i can get macchanger for os2008	01:30
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koyote	macwho?	01:30
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Toma-	Is there a replacement grep that can handle -e in the 770 repos?	01:41
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koyote	is there anything i actually have to do in 2008 to enable host mode for the usb?	02:27
koyote	to use a keyboard?	02:27
cLin	hrm	02:28
cLin	my ssh on n800 isn't working	02:28
cLin	thats weird	02:28
KotCzarny	ping it	02:28
KotCzarny	koyote: have you switched it to the host mode?	02:29
cLin	i can access it thru my n800 but can't elsewhere	02:29
cLin	i just used it last night too	02:29
cLin	thats weird	02:29
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koyote	how do i switch to host mode?	02:31
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KotCzarny	koyote: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_USB_Host_mode_on_the_N800_using_OS_2008	02:34
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ttmrichter	Is there some way to bring an N800 up in something other than runlevel 2? I accidentally borked the runlevel 2 init scripts and can't start the machine.	03:01
KotCzarny	yup	03:01
KotCzarny	use fanoush usb rescue	03:01
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ttmrichter	KotCzarny: Is this something I can google quickly?	03:04
KotCzarny	words: fanoush init ?	03:04
KotCzarny	or better	03:05
KotCzarny	fanoush flasher	03:05
ttmrichter	I have to re-flash? This is what I'm trying to avoid doing.	03:05
KotCzarny	or just: http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#initfs	03:05
KotCzarny	only initfs, not your actual system	03:05
ttmrichter	Interesting. So I reflash just the initfs and this allows me to enter different runlevels, I'm presuming?	03:06
KotCzarny	hmm	03:06
KotCzarny	runlevels, i don't know	03:06
KotCzarny	but you can telnet into it	03:06
KotCzarny	i think	03:06
KotCzarny	or just go into some kind of 'single' mode	03:07
ttmrichter	Ah, yes. Just read that. I can telnet/ssh in. Which is EXACTLY what I need. Single mode helps too (that would be runlevel 0).	03:07
KotCzarny	erm, no	03:07
KotCzarny	runlevel 0 is reboot	03:07
KotCzarny	;)	03:07
KotCzarny	runlevel 1 is single	03:07
KotCzarny	:)	03:07
ttmrichter	D'oh! Yeah, my mistake.	03:07
ttmrichter	I'm not used to runlevel-based systems. :)	03:07
KotCzarny	no problem	03:08
KotCzarny	:)	03:08
ttmrichter	I keep getting the numbers screwed up.	03:08
ttmrichter	I remember runlevel 2 (because it's ubiquitous) and runlevel S (because it's actually mnemonic!).	03:08
KotCzarny	i personally use ramdisk for rescueing on my pcs	03:08
ttmrichter	On my PCs I use liveCDs.	03:08
KotCzarny	something like that	03:08
ttmrichter	Much easier to rescue a PC than an N800. :)	03:09
KotCzarny	but made by myself	03:09
KotCzarny	:)	03:09
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KotCzarny	so it has gcc/distcc/sshd	03:09
KotCzarny	and fits into 20mb	03:09
KotCzarny	:)	03:09
KotCzarny	quite easy way to bootup a cluster	03:09
KotCzarny	;)	03:09
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scibot	Any idea if there's a way to temporarily disable the backlight from automatically dimming and/or switching off.	03:15
scibot	Having to tap it every minute while I try to draw a photo I have on screen is annoying.	03:16
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KotCzarny	scibot: there was a way to add more options for timeout	03:16
KotCzarny	fe. 60 minutes	03:16
KotCzarny	;)	03:16
KotCzarny	let me check	03:16
scibot	Thanks. =)	03:17
KotCzarny	gconftool-2 --type "list" --list-type "int" --set "/system/osso/dsm/display/possible_display_dim_tim	03:17
KotCzarny	eouts" "[10,30,60,120,300,600,3600]"	03:17
KotCzarny	gconftool-2 --type "list" --list-type "int" --set "/system/osso/dsm/display/possible_display_blank_t	03:17
KotCzarny	imeouts" "[30,60,120,300,600,3600]"	03:17
KotCzarny	erm	03:18
KotCzarny	got fragmented	03:18
KotCzarny	i hope you will see how to use it	03:18
KotCzarny	:)	03:18
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scibot	Yep, thanks again.	03:18
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skibur	Do we have rotation on the N800/N810?	03:53
jott	skibur: yes, http://sse2.net/rotate/	03:54
KotCzarny	yup	03:54
KotCzarny	and it rocks	03:54
skibur	cool	03:54
KotCzarny	and you can move menubar	03:54
skibur	xrandr?	03:54
KotCzarny	like in windows	03:54
KotCzarny	:)	03:54
KotCzarny	yup	03:54
skibur	nice	03:55
KotCzarny	very	03:55
KotCzarny	some bugs with programs	03:55
KotCzarny	but you will be only using it with www/ebooks	03:55
KotCzarny	and those work beautifully	03:55
skibur	thanks	03:55
skibur	will need to backup my current OS	03:56
skibur	;)	03:56
KotCzarny	why?	03:56
KotCzarny	:)	03:56
skibur	hum...	03:56
skibur	checking Jott's site	03:56
jott	it should actually be save	03:56
KotCzarny	'safe'	03:56
KotCzarny	:)	03:56
KotCzarny	it is	03:56
jott	you just flash the kernel and update xmap	03:56
jott	:)	03:56
jott	it is	03:56
jott	xomap	03:57
jott	still a backup can't be wrong ;)	03:57
KotCzarny	yup	03:57
KotCzarny	but cloning os to mmc is even better option	03:58
KotCzarny	:)	03:58
jott	that's just another word for "backup" :)	03:58
KotCzarny	more	03:58
KotCzarny	:)	03:58
skibur	=O	03:59
jott	no, everything else is less! :)	03:59
skibur	hum...	03:59
skibur	wonder if it will affect KDE	03:59
jott	actually KDE should work fine even with kde xrandr tray thingy i suppose	03:59
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Kekerot	do you guys use wayfinder for gps?	04:00
skibur	how can I boot from SD card?	04:01
skibur	I already have the flasher at boot time	04:01
jott	use fanoush initfs	04:01
KotCzarny	skibur: look for a howto	04:01
skibur	what format should the file be on the sd card?	04:01
jott	no file, full / on an ext3 (or similar) partition	04:02
skibur	o ok	04:02
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skibur	I used to have to OS	04:02
jott	but you could probably also do some loop back container madness :)	04:02
skibur	two	04:02
skibur	OS2007 and OS2008	04:02
skibur	N800 and SD Card Internal	04:03
jott	Kekerot: http://xkcd.com/399/ <- i use this for gps ;)	04:03
KotCzarny	lol	04:04
Kekerot	thanks jott that seems much cheaper	04:04
skibur	wonder if Nokia will ever add rotation to the upcoming OS2008 update	04:05
jott	skibur: i doubt it.. too much work to make it really clean for to less gain.	04:06
jott	too	04:06
jott	but as long as we can use it, it's fine ;)	04:07
koyote	heh	04:07
koyote	sharp did it	04:07
jott	sharp had qtopia not maemo :P	04:07
skibur	F-it it works	04:07
skibur	:D	04:07
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koyote	jott: point being that very few things people ask for are reinventing the wheel	04:10
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koyote	better time might be spent looking at what people have, need, want and designing around that as a new and comprehensive os change instead of dot incrementing	04:10
koyote	shrug	04:10
skibur	sorry	04:11
Kekerot	what is the latest macOS you can get running on a tablet with basilisk	04:16
WorkingOnWise	what changes do I need to make to the cloning process if I want to use ext3 on my sd card , when I clone the os to the sd card? I see nothing about ext3, and the ./nupgrade.sh (0-4) fails. the error is this - Unable to identify target device and partition with a valid linux filesystem (type 83). I partitioned the card with 7.2Gb ext3 partition and .5gb fat32 partition using my laptop. I also tried the .5gb fat 32 first, and s	04:19
koyote	you don't like your sd card?	04:20
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WorkingOnWise	what do u mean koyote?	04:21
WorkingOnWise	koyote: what do you mean?	04:25
koyote	ext3 on flash?	04:25
koyote	maximizing writes, minimizes life of card	04:25
KotCzarny	not really	04:26
KotCzarny	only if you enable journal=data	04:26
KotCzarny	:)	04:26
koyote	okay, only if you use ext3 in ext2 mode do you not kill your flash	04:26
KotCzarny	nope	04:26
koyote	phphphphpbbbtt	04:26
KotCzarny	:)	04:26
WorkingOnWise	I am chosing ext3 for the journaling abilities so it wont have to to an fschk acter a crash, or after x number of mounts	04:27
jott	hehe like writing to fats at a fixed location :) .. (hopefully the card is smarter than that ;)	04:27
WorkingOnWise	acter=after	04:28
* koyote raises an eyebrow		04:29
koyote	1: I've lost more data with ext3 than ext2	04:29
koyote	2: journalling gives you a false sense of security. stuff fails, just because your inodes are safe doesn't mean much in the larger view	04:30
KotCzarny	but still	04:30
KotCzarny	checking 8gb ext2 after battery fail?	04:30
WorkingOnWise	i've never seen a data loss at all on ext2 or 3, except for hardware failures	04:30
KotCzarny	every time?	04:31
koyote	3: I have worn out flash, and it sucks	04:31
WorkingOnWise	wow...yeah....how long would THAT take?! Didn't even concider that...	04:31
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WorkingOnWise	koyote: over what period of time?	04:31
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koyote	on the hp200 I think I blew one up in 6 months. lot of weird traffic across that one	04:32
koyote	a couple others in the 18 month range	04:32
KotCzarny	was it ext3?	04:32
WorkingOnWise	what's an hp200?	04:32
jott	while true; do dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/mmc1; done ;p	04:32
koyote	otoh, I have a few that have lasted several years, but I don't exactly put swap on them :)	04:32
koyote	WorkingOnWise: one had ext3 and jfs at various times, the other 2 were FAT32	04:33
KotCzarny	so it doesn't matter, fat or ext3 from your perspective	04:33
koyote	WorkingOnWise: a PCXT you could hold in your hand	04:33
KotCzarny	:)	04:33
WorkingOnWise	so it doesnt sound like a file system thing...	04:33
koyote	before you were born :)	04:33
KotCzarny	hah, mlc flash?	04:34
koyote	WorkingOnWise: no, but a file system that generates more writes will shorten the life of the card.	04:34
WorkingOnWise	um...not likely koyote	04:34
freelikegnu	why not use blue tooth headphones, then you have real wireless radio :D	04:34
koyote	humor tag, I don't actually expect you are 12	04:34
WorkingOnWise	lol....good....sometimes I still act it tho	04:35
WorkingOnWise	:D	04:35
koyote	shrug we've been over this a dozen times on #eeepc and on the eee wiki.	04:35
freelikegnu	oh crap I was way far back in the chat buffer	04:35
koyote	put ext3 and while you are at it a swap partition on there.	04:35
KotCzarny	with some gap between	04:35
KotCzarny	~10mb	04:35
WorkingOnWise	actually, I want swap on the built in flash I think	04:36
KotCzarny	no you don't.	04:36
WorkingOnWise	y?	04:36
KotCzarny	remember that built in flash is soldered	04:36
KotCzarny	once it's worn out. it's dead.	04:36
jott	is it? :)	04:36
KotCzarny	isn't it?	04:36
KotCzarny	:)	04:36
WorkingOnWise	ah....and if i wear it out I'm buyin a new it	04:36
KotCzarny	lol	04:36
KotCzarny	ok	04:36
KotCzarny	;)	04:36
jott	the 2gb in n810? no one opened this thing yet and made photos :P	04:36
KotCzarny	if you put it that way	04:36
KotCzarny	jott: i have n800	04:37
KotCzarny	so don't look at me	04:37
WorkingOnWise	me too	04:37
KotCzarny	:)	04:37
jott	KotCzarny: nothing new to me :)	04:37
KotCzarny	jott: do you have n810?	04:37
KotCzarny	:)	04:37
WorkingOnWise	so...my problem....how to do the clone on an ext3 partition...	04:37
jott	you have 3 guesses ;)	04:37
KotCzarny	jott: can i get 50/50 ?	04:37
KotCzarny	;)	04:37
WorkingOnWise	i already used 'em	04:38
jott	WorkingOnWise: mount the / partition somewhere and rsync it over	04:38
WorkingOnWise	I can rsync a live os?	04:38
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jott	just mount the / partition somewhere else and don't just copy "/" then you'll be pretty safe..	04:40
jott	(you could also rsync / with the right arguments)	04:40
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jott	there is some more or less correct wiki entry somewhere :)	04:40
WorkingOnWise	I guess I could mess with it. it's not like I'm gonna hurt the primary OS	04:43
WorkingOnWise	and I do have rsync installed on the tablet	04:44
koyote	forget ext3, use ext2, make it a 2gb parition and leave the other 6 fat and use rsync for backups often	04:46
koyote	:p	04:46
jott	fat is evil :p	04:47
KotCzarny	more like 'dumb'	04:47
KotCzarny	:)	04:47
jott	and evil.. :)	04:47
KotCzarny	don't attribute evil to what can be explained with dumbness	04:48
jott	(more fat32/vfat is evil ;)	04:48
jott	like microsoft patent evil :)	04:48
Kekerot	has anyone tried emulating macOS on nit?	04:58
KotCzarny	fffft	04:58
KotCzarny	no macos on my nokia!	04:58
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skibur	:)	05:10
Navi	colon close parenthesis	05:11
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johnx	Kekerot, yup, look at itt. basiliskII I think is what it's called. 68k macs only	05:32
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amen1	why I can not insmod in my n810?	06:24
amen1	Nokia-N810-42-19:/# /sbin/insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/ext2.ko	06:24
amen1	insmod: cannot insert '/mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/ext2.ko': Unknown symbol in module (-1): No such file or directory	06:24
KotCzarny	No such file or directory	06:24
KotCzarny	probably you need another module	06:24
GeneralAntilles	Because it doesn't exist there?	06:24
KotCzarny	don't remember the name	06:24
johnx	also, you have to handle module dependencies manually because modprobe doesn't work out of the box	06:25
johnx	ext2 depends on symbols in mbd.ko IIRC	06:25
KotCzarny	or do: mkdir /lib/modules; cp -a /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1 /lib/modules/	06:25
KotCzarny	THEN you could simply do modprobe ext2	06:25
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KotCzarny	symlink would work too	06:26
KotCzarny	:)	06:26
amen1	oh, thanks	06:26
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Italodance	morning guys	06:39
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Kekerot	http://home.tampabay.rr.com/osemu/n800/b2/	06:50
Kekerot	what does it mean by tar on here?	06:50
Kekerot	it it just a program to unzip tar files	06:50
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Italodance	?	06:54
tank-man	where does it say tar	06:54
Italodance	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=160303#post160303	06:55
Italodance	:D	06:55
koyote`	yes!	06:55
koyote`	i have bt keyboard	06:55
Kekerot	it says you should have * osso-xterm	06:57
Kekerot	* tar	06:57
Kekerot	* becomeroot	06:57
KotCzarny	you have tar from busybox	06:57
koyote`	emacs irc. so happy	06:57
KotCzarny	:)	06:58
KotCzarny	n800 ftw!	06:58
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Navi	:/	06:59
Navi	woo hoo, 300 bytes per second	06:59
Navi	Blazing fast download speed	06:59
Kekerot	when i save a tar.gz file on my n810 it says there is no application to open file	07:00
Navi	tar xvzf <file>.tar.gz within osso-xterm	07:00
johnx	Kekerot, you need xarchiver or just untar it in the terminal with the command Navi just gave you	07:00
Italodance	hi johnx how are ya? :D	07:01
Kekerot	i tried to install osso-xterm but ther was only an os 2007 version on maemo.org	07:01
koyote`	is included in os2008	07:02
koyote`	in utilities	07:02
Kekerot	oh ok i thought it was a different terminal	07:02
koyote`	now i need to get angband working	07:05
koyote`	but later	07:06
koyote`	i go lay down	07:06
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Navi	odd	07:10
cLin^	how hard would it to make a home applet that mimics something like a paintprogram	07:14
cLin^	so i can scribble notes and clicking a button saves it, clicking another one locks the program so u can't accidentally write on it	07:15
KotCzarny	:)	07:15
Italodance	hey someone has hildon-libs0 (>= 0.12.20-1)>	07:15
KotCzarny	nice idea	07:15
KotCzarny	clin: making it transparent would rock	07:17
KotCzarny	:)	07:17
KotCzarny	or layered	07:17
KotCzarny	like a notebook	07:17
KotCzarny	and integrating with calendar app	07:17
Kekerot	ahh i cant extract it with xarchiver	07:17
Kekerot	tar: unrecognized option `--keep-old-files'	07:17
Kekerot	BusyBox v1.6.1 (2007-09-27 18:08:59 EEST) multi-call binary	07:17
Kekerot	Usage: tar -[czxtvO] [-f TARFILE] [-C DIR] [FILE(s)] ...	07:17
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Navi	tar xvzf <file>.tar.gz	07:19
Kekerot	i tried but it said no such file	07:21
Kekerot	do i need to get it to the directory	07:21
Navi	tar xvzf /path/to/<file>.tar.gz	07:21
KotCzarny	guess	07:21
KotCzarny	if you tell someone to unpack your stuff	07:22
Navi	and it'll extract it to your current directory	07:22
KotCzarny	do you have to tell them where's your stuff is	07:22
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Italodance	hello?	07:23
cLin^	KotCzarny, you should make it	07:24
KotCzarny	clin: probably	07:24
cLin^	seriously. i sometimes need somethingf i can just quickly scribble a note	07:24
cLin^	like a todo	07:24
KotCzarny	though i have to do something else	07:24
cLin^	then press button to lock it	07:24
cLin^	press button seq to unlock it	07:24
cLin^	another button to save	07:24
cLin^	one to clear and one to switch from erase/pencil	07:24
KotCzarny	hack some sketch program?	07:25
cLin^	yea	07:25
cLin^	like mypaint	07:25
cLin^	thats actually really nice	07:25
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cLin^	just needs the button lock and transparency	07:25
KotCzarny	and desktopness	07:25
cLin^	yes	07:25
cLin^	make it KotCzarny you will be praised	07:25
cLin^	i know a lot of ppl want that	07:25
KotCzarny	:)	07:25
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Kekerot	Navi how does maemo have files setup, like the file is in documents so is it /documents/file.tar.gz ?	07:26
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cLin^	do itttt	07:26
Navi	MyDocs within your home directory	07:26
Navi	as user, it'll be /home/user/MyDocs	07:27
cLin^	can someone make it though?	07:29
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ryoohki_	how do i install a package to the sd card rather than to the internal flash memory?	07:45
KotCzarny	googlewifi?	07:47
tank-man	ryoohki_, easy way is just to boot from the sd card	07:48
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ryoohki_	KotCzarny: yup, i live in mountain view	07:48
KotCzarny	nice..	07:48
ryoohki_	KotCzarny: yup, i live in mountain view, california	07:48
KotCzarny	how fast it is?	07:48
ryoohki_	tank-man: how about the hard way where i specifiy where i want the files to go, mmc1 or mmc2?	07:50
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ryoohki_	it's rate limited to 1mbs but it's bit lower	07:50
tank-man	hard way is read the man page on apt-whatever	07:50
KotCzarny	ryoohki_: it won't work because you will have to setup paths etc.	07:50
ryoohki_	tank-man: i'm familar with apt-get but it's a serious oversite not let people choose where to put the apps	07:51
KotCzarny	the easiest way would be to clone os to mmc and boot off it	07:51
KotCzarny	:)	07:51
ryoohki_	oi!	07:51
tank-man	i browsed the man page for it and remember seeing you can set where to install stuff	07:52
ryoohki_	tank-man: it says not enough room and to set a different location to install to without saying how to do that	07:52
tank-man	you are more familiar with apt=get than me	07:53
ryoohki_	wget => 55,473,005 60.79K/s	07:53
ryoohki_	75,067,793 49.37K/s, and also, 24,645 26.57K/s	07:54
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Italodance	http://mosh.nokia.com/blocked	08:14
Italodance	lol	08:14
Italodance	! >:(	08:14
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oilinki	well... at least it works with firefox.. :)	08:39
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Italodance	http://tabletblog.com/2008/03/another-video-converter-option-rockpod.html	08:41
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Italodance	here is it http://techlogg.com/rockpod/ :D	08:45
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oilinki	btw. can you recommend an IRCNet server with free access? open.ircnet.net seems to be vanishedf from dns	08:46
KotCzarny	ircnet.choopa.com	08:46
KotCzarny	or .net	08:46
KotCzarny	i always forget	08:46
christefano	Italodance: what's mosh?	08:47
GeneralAntilles	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1584	08:47
GeneralAntilles	Interesting	08:47
GeneralAntilles	Hadn't noticed Quim's comments there before.	08:47
Italodance	christefano it depends to maemo maps	08:47
oilinki	KotCzarny: thanks. I'll try that one	08:48
christefano	Italodance: maemo mapper or the default maps app?	08:49
Italodance	christefano maemo mapper	08:50
Italodance	christefano https://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=2443	08:50
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Italodance	i found it http://techlogg.com/rockpod/techlogg.com-rockpod08lite-build25-i386-win32.exe :D	08:52
christefano	thasks, Italodance.	08:54
Italodance	:D	08:55
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oilinki	KotCzarny: irc.choopa.net:6667 worked out fine. thanks for info.	09:03
KotCzarny	np	09:03
KotCzarny	but it's probably another network	09:03
KotCzarny	you wanted ircnet	09:03
KotCzarny	:)	09:03
KotCzarny	yup, efnet	09:04
KotCzarny	;)	09:04
oilinki	I got my ircnet :)	09:07
KotCzarny	:)	09:07
amen1	I compiled directfb for my n810, when I run the dfb example programs ,. the screen goes dark, why?	09:07
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ttmrichter	OK, what is the trick for actually getting the application manager to either a) stop saying that a given set of packages needs updating or b) actually update the god-damned packages?!	09:08
KotCzarny	a/ don't use app-manager	09:09
KotCzarny	b/ use apt-get install	09:09
ttmrichter	The packages in question -- makedev 2.3.1-73oss-4 and libglade2-0 1:2.6.2-1indt1 -- are both in the Maemo Chinook repository and yet I can't update them because they're missing.	09:09
KotCzarny	:)	09:09
amen1	Anyone knows?	09:09
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ttmrichter	OK, so how do I use apt-get install when I can't get to root because I can't install software with <expletive deleted> app-manager?	09:09
KotCzarny	sudo	09:10
ttmrichter	I get applet errors whenever I try sudo.	09:10
KotCzarny	what errors?	09:10
KotCzarny	(pastebin.com)	09:10
ttmrichter	It just says "applet error".	09:11
ttmrichter	Typical UNIX fashion it provides no information. It is assumed the user knows what error they made.	09:11
KotCzarny	nothing else?	09:11
ttmrichter	Nothing else.	09:11
KotCzarny	strace ?	09:11
ttmrichter	strace being?	09:12
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KotCzarny	sudo strace apt-get install something	09:12
KotCzarny	or strace sudo	09:12
KotCzarny	i don't remember	09:12
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GeneralAntilles	What's the Application manager log say? :\	09:13
ttmrichter	I'm trying to figure out when, precisely, I asked for a headache today.	09:13
ttmrichter	Now the root password isn't working.	09:13
KotCzarny	:>	09:13
KotCzarny	it's blank	09:14
KotCzarny	probably	09:14
ttmrichter	I'm really tempted to test the flight characteristics of my N800 today.	09:14
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GeneralAntilles	Did the internal card get corrupted?	09:14
GeneralAntilles	What error does Application manager give.	09:14
GeneralAntilles	Nobody can help you if you don't give information.	09:14
Italodance	ttmrichter flight characteristics? what is it?	09:14
KotCzarny	lol	09:14
ttmrichter	Application manager says that it can't update the packages I named because they don't exist.	09:15
ttmrichter	That's it.	09:15
KotCzarny	hmm	09:15
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KotCzarny	try removing repos?	09:15
ttmrichter	If I give a blank password on sudo I get no behaviour at all. Just back to user prompt.	09:15
KotCzarny	and leaving only system ones	09:15
ttmrichter	I have removed all repos and installed only the Nokia ones.	09:15
ttmrichter	Same issue.	09:15
GeneralAntilles	user doesn't have a password	09:15
GeneralAntilles	and isn't in sudoers by default	09:15
GeneralAntilles	so you can't usod.	09:16
ttmrichter	OK, so back to the original question: how do I get access to apt-get if I can't get to root?	09:16
GeneralAntilles	Flash it to R&D mode.	09:16
GeneralAntilles	or install becomeroot	09:16
GeneralAntilles	or easyroot	09:16
ttmrichter	With a broken app manager?	09:16
KotCzarny	:)	09:16
GeneralAntilles	You said it was broken updating	09:16
GeneralAntilles	Can you install new stuff?	09:17
ttmrichter	I'll try, but the way this thing is going today I'm not going to be holding my breath, to put it mildly.	09:17
GeneralAntilles	Meh, nothing is unsolvable.	09:17
KotCzarny	'sorry i can help, but i will forward you to another person that will ask the same set of questions'	09:17
KotCzarny	;)	09:17
KotCzarny	*can't	09:17
KotCzarny	;)	09:17
GeneralAntilles	Lots and lots of people use Application manager without trouble	09:17
ttmrichter	Oh, GOOD GOD! Now every category is prefixed with "". So it's ""utils and ""user and ""this and ""that.	09:18
GeneralAntilles	so obivously it's not an unfiable problem.	09:18
KotCzarny	matrix mode	09:18
KotCzarny	not a problem	09:18
GeneralAntilles	What were you screwing around with? :\	09:18
ttmrichter	I reflashed.	09:18
KotCzarny	also called redpill mode	09:18
GeneralAntilles	What did you do to break Application manager?	09:18
ttmrichter	And app manager gives a tiny column for the application name and a huge column for the version. So I can read the version with plenty of whitespace and I can't read the application name at all.	09:19
GeneralAntilles	The only possible stumbling point with Application manager on a fresh install is a corrupt internal flash card.	09:19
GeneralAntilles	Fixed in SVN	09:19
KotCzarny	ttmrichter: known problem with an app-manager	09:19
GeneralAntilles	Should be updated with Diablo.	09:19
ttmrichter	So, back to the original question: how do I install apps with a broken app manager?	09:19
GeneralAntilles	<_<	09:20
GeneralAntilles	Just reflash again.	09:20
KotCzarny	ttmrichter: you don't have ssh installed?	09:20
ttmrichter	When I go full-screen I can get enough to see much of the title. No gainroot package listed.	09:20
ttmrichter	What was the other one called?	09:20
GeneralAntilles	easyroot	09:20
GeneralAntilles	But neither of them are in Extras	09:21
ttmrichter	I think it's time for flight tests.	09:21
GeneralAntilles	So if you don't have those repositories in the catalog, then you wont see them.	09:21
GeneralAntilles	Just download the .deb	09:21
GeneralAntilles	http://nitapps.com/dists/chinook/user/binary-armel/easyroot_1.0-4_armel.deb	09:21
GeneralAntilles	Save the attitude for people who aren't trying to help you. :)	09:21
KotCzarny	yeah	09:21
Italodance	easyroot is shit and disn't work	09:21
GeneralAntilles	Italodance, that's straight up incorrect.	09:22
KotCzarny	and ga will install it for you	09:22
GeneralAntilles	It works fine.	09:22
KotCzarny	with his magic pass	09:22
GeneralAntilles	Better than becomeroot, even.	09:22
GeneralAntilles	YOU just don't know how to use it.	09:22
ttmrichter	Sorry about the attitude. Was just expecting to do other things on my day off, not wrestle with this crap.	09:22
ttmrichter	I'm just going to reflash.	09:22
GeneralAntilles	Good plan.	09:22
Italodance	GeneralAntilles can use it connect to internet with usb?	09:22
ttmrichter	See if any of this clears up.	09:22
ttmrichter	Specifically I'm going to tell it NOT to restore from backup when it reboots.	09:23
GeneralAntilles	Italodance, that's not what easyroot does.	09:23
GeneralAntilles	Also a good plan.	09:23
KotCzarny	ttmrichter: your situation is similiar to locking yourself out of house with keys inside	09:23
KotCzarny	:)	09:23
GeneralAntilles	easyroot lets you get a rootshell without having to enable R&D mode.	09:23
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KotCzarny	just don't forget to install ssh as the first thing	09:23
KotCzarny	that will save you from being helpless	09:24
KotCzarny	:)	09:24
Italodance	GeneralAntilles tell me exactly what can it do?	09:24
GeneralAntilles	I just did.	09:24
ttmrichter	I was planning to install ssh first-thing.	09:25
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ttmrichter	Things... interfered.	09:25
KotCzarny	murphy's law	09:25
KotCzarny	hmm, can you remove packages with app-manager?	09:26
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ttmrichter	I'll find out after the reflash.	09:27
KotCzarny	after reflash it doesn't matter	09:27
KotCzarny	:)	09:27
KotCzarny	as it will be working i guess	09:27
ttmrichter	It didn't the first time....	09:27
ttmrichter	Of course I foolishly thought restoring from backup was OK.	09:28
GeneralAntilles	The only thing that can go wrong with Application manager on a completely fresh install is the internal flash card being corrupt.	09:28
ttmrichter	I'm beginning to think this was a mistake. ;)	09:28
GeneralAntilles	Restoring from backup restores all of the settings you broke last time around.	09:28
ttmrichter	The setting I broke last time around was a screwup in /etc/rc2.d	09:28
ttmrichter	That wasn't backed up.	09:28
KotCzarny	hmm	09:28
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KotCzarny	how could you screw up /etc without root access?	09:29
ttmrichter	I HAD root access in the past.	09:29
GeneralAntilles	It was.	09:29
ttmrichter	Just after reflashing it was gone.	09:29
GeneralAntilles	Through what method?	09:29
ttmrichter	Reflashing? ./flasher-3.0 -F <file> -R -f	09:29
GeneralAntilles	No, root access.	09:29
KotCzarny	ttmrichter: backup only restores some user settings, not system scripts	09:30
KotCzarny	just for info	09:30
KotCzarny	:)	09:30
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ttmrichter	I think I used gainroot way back when.	09:30
GeneralAntilles	That would be why you didn't have root access after the reflash.	09:31
ttmrichter	Then used SSH to log in and changed passwords around.	09:31
GeneralAntilles	Installed applications aren't backed up.	09:31
ttmrichter	And KotCzarny, I was COUNTING on it not restoring system scripts. Otherwise I'd never be able to boot. ;)	09:31
KotCzarny	:)	09:31
ttmrichter	Having a script in rc2.d hang turns out to be really bad for the boot process.	09:31
KotCzarny	boot loop?	09:32
KotCzarny	:)	09:32
ttmrichter	Well, it was a network script that was running before, of course, there was a network to connect to. And the script, upon failure, tried again. And again. And again.	09:32
KotCzarny	yeah..	09:32
KotCzarny	i know the pain	09:33
KotCzarny	before i added nosshfs to mount -a in slackware	09:33
KotCzarny	;)	09:33
KotCzarny	anyway, reflash i relatively painless	09:33
KotCzarny	:)	09:33
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KotCzarny	at least that part you can't break	09:34
KotCzarny	:)	09:34
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ttmrichter	Trust me. I'm the kind of guy that'll find a way to break the unbreakable.	09:35
KotCzarny	no no	09:35
KotCzarny	i don't say it's unbreakable	09:35
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KotCzarny	there's always a hammer	09:36
KotCzarny	:)	09:36
KotCzarny	only that reflashing is 99.9% safe	09:36
ttmrichter	I'm the .01.	09:36
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ttmrichter	.1, even.	09:36
KotCzarny	only if you actively pursue it	09:37
KotCzarny	:)	09:37
ttmrichter	Like flight lessons? :)	09:37
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KotCzarny	yeah, send it flying to my appartment	09:37
KotCzarny	:)	09:37
KotCzarny	i would gladly take care of poor thingie	09:37
KotCzarny	(:	09:37
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KotCzarny	i'll feed with with juicy volts and yummy amps	09:38
ttmrichter	I'm not sure I can throw over the Pacific (or over continental Asia depending on where you live).	09:38
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KotCzarny	let other people help you	09:38
KotCzarny	;)	09:38
ttmrichter	Well, let's see what a clean install with no backups does for app manager.	09:38
Italodance	maemo-mapper can recieve gps with bluetooth?	09:39
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GeneralAntilles	That's kinda the whole point, Italodance.	09:40
Italodance	GeneralAntilles ok....it saw the link openstreetmap.com for my first use on maemo mapper	09:41
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AStorm	hello	10:10
AStorm	where can I get osso-pdf-reader back from?	10:10
GeneralAntilles	Mount the rootfs and extract it from there.	10:14
AStorm	hmm	10:14
AStorm	note "back"	10:15
AStorm	so, I have to mount the real image on my pc	10:15
AStorm	or what?	10:15
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GeneralAntilles	Download the FIASCO image	10:20
GeneralAntilles	unpack it	10:20
GeneralAntilles	mount the rootfs.	10:20
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KotCzarny	hmm	10:22
KotCzarny	isn't it osso-pdf-viewer ?	10:22
KotCzarny	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/o/osso-pdf-viewer/osso-pdf-viewer_1.4.41-0.tar.gz	10:23
KotCzarny	but you will have to compile it yourself :)	10:24
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Italodance	problem...my FBReader can read my e-books on my mmc2 and totally it can't find my mmc2 why?	10:27
KotCzarny	ok, bedtime, night ppl	10:29
Jaffa	Morning, all	10:30
Italodance	hi Jaffa	10:31
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AStorm	KotCzarny: once my dev image works	10:36
AStorm	vmware hates me for some reason	10:36
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AStorm	and scratchbox directly doesn't worj either	10:37
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Italodance	can someone reply me?	10:37
AStorm	idk anything about fbreader	10:38
Italodance	yes	10:38
Italodance	my FBReader can't read my e-books on my mmc2 and totally it can't find my mmc2 why?	10:39
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AStorm	ok, so once I have the rootfs, what should I run?	10:48
GeneralAntilles	You have to mount the jffs2 image.	10:49
GeneralAntilles	Setup a loopback blah blah blah	10:49
GeneralAntilles	There's a guide on google.	10:49
AStorm	that I know	10:49
AStorm	what then?	10:49
GeneralAntilles	Once you've mounted it, then pull the pdf reader from wherever it is on there and move it to the tablet.	10:49
AStorm	nah	10:50
AStorm	that'll break the package system	10:50
AStorm	I have to grab the deb	10:50
GeneralAntilles	There is no deb.	10:50
GeneralAntilles	You could repackage it I suppose.	10:51
AStorm	why nokia didn't provide a deb for their own package?	10:51
AStorm	they thought no one would uninstall it?	10:52
GeneralAntilles	It's a bundled application	10:52
GeneralAntilles	They don't provide debs for bundled applications.	10:52
AStorm	yeah yeah	10:52
AStorm	why?	10:52
GeneralAntilles	It's not uninstallable with Application manager.	10:52
GeneralAntilles	You've hit an edge-case, congratulations. :\	10:53
AStorm	it is, redpill	10:53
AStorm	:P	10:53
GeneralAntilles	Redpill doesn't count.	10:53
AStorm	now, the problem is evince fails on huge documents	10:53
AStorm	gets outofmemory and reboots the device	10:53
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AStorm	someone forgot that large documents can't be cached wholly in ram	10:55
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wom-	hmm, fbreader and screen rotate. that could make nice pair :)	10:56
GeneralAntilles	Or assumed they wouldn't be working with a 128MB device. :P	10:57
GeneralAntilles	wom-, FBReader already rotates without hacks.	10:57
wom-	GeneralAntilles: oh it does.. even better	10:57
GeneralAntilles	You can even setup the hotkeys based on orientation.	10:57
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Kekerot	can anyone help me install basilisk? :X	11:00
GeneralAntilles	There's a complete guide on ITT.	11:01
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Kekerot	i extracted it all and everything but I dont know where actual files are	11:03
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AStorm	hmm, I still need a working dhclient	11:09
AStorm	KotCzarny: your dhcp package only has the server	11:09
Kekerot	i think basilisk is installed now but where the heck does maemo put the files	11:09
AStorm	and pump fail miserably	11:10
GeneralAntilles	It's a tarball, isn't it?	11:10
GeneralAntilles	If so, then maemo isn't involved.	11:10
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Kekerot	oh i see	11:12
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Kekerot	look like it broke at this part mv BasiliskII /user/home	11:20
pupnik	lmao @ the old guy at 8:39 in part 3 of the CIA in tibet	11:26
pupnik	oop wrong chan	11:26
Lynoure	got us curious, though	11:26
keesj	indeed	11:27
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AStorm	hmm	11:40
AStorm	pump doesn't work for some reason	11:40
AStorm	even though the interface is statically configured	11:40
AStorm	something is missing	11:40
AStorm	brb	11:40
Kekerot	anyone know why mv BasiliskII /user/home wont work? the BasiliskII binary is in the directory but it says "No such file or directory"	11:41
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X-Fade	Kekerot: Because that dir doesn't exist? :)	11:42
X-Fade	Kekerot: /home/user perhaps?	11:43
Kekerot	but that directory does exist	11:43
Kekerot	i can see it and i did ls -l and saw the stuff in it	11:43
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AStorm	hmm	12:01
AStorm	nokia is doing something funny on connect	12:01
AStorm	something with dbus I can't get	12:02
jani	anyone knows about tap-and-hold animation for gtk widgets ?	12:03
AStorm	I see dbus messages flying, like a com.nokia.icd proxies member being set	12:03
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AStorm	ufortunately, I can only see dbus broadcasts	12:04
AStorm	I need some debug version of it to get what happens on wlan connection	12:05
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AStorm	I'll have to peruse a mailing list	12:13
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error_developer_	hey,	13:32
error_developer_	has anyone got a working usb OTG plugin package?	13:32
error_developer_	i did try the one from the garage ..	13:33
error_developer_	that crashed	13:33
error_developer_	and didn't actually have the module itself :(	13:33
GeneralAntilles	OTG or host-mode?	13:33
GeneralAntilles	OTG is done in hardware.	13:33
error_developer_	hm ..	13:33
error_developer_	i read about g_ether before ..	13:34
error_developer_	right ..	13:34
error_developer_	so have to somehow debug that	13:34
error_developer_	right ..	13:34
error_developer_	GeneralAntilles: what actually this OTG stands for ..?	13:34
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kulve	on-the-go	13:37
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error_developer_	right ..	13:43
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error_developer_	so meant to work very easy ..	13:44
error_developer_	is it quick to get the other side to work	13:44
error_developer_	?	13:44
error_developer_	i'm doing this rmotely, and the trfic if quite bad :(	13:45
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b0unc3	what happens to maemo.org?... I get a lot of errors...	13:55
kulve	it seems to be broken once again	13:56
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X-Fade	b0unc3: Looking into it already..	13:56
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b0unc3	ok...	13:57
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aquatix	X-Fade: what framework does maemo.org use? and what is midcom? :)	14:01
X-Fade	aquatix: Midgard.	14:01
aquatix	ah :)	14:01
X-Fade	b0unc3: Do you still see them?	14:05
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woodong50	hi	14:08
woodong50	where is utorrent of maemo?	14:09
Italodance	woodong50 utorrent	14:10
Italodance	no	14:10
Italodance	we have aria2 and ctorrent	14:10
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woodong50	is it impossible to install utorrent on n800?	14:11
Italodance	woodong50 i don't think...u can use ctorrent?	14:11
woodong50	ctorrent?	14:11
woodong50	ok	14:11
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GeneralAntilles	woodong50, did you see Transmission?	14:16
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Italodance	GeneralAntilles i saw ur pic :D	14:17
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woodong50	where is ctorrent install file	14:18
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Italodance	woodong50 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-torrent	14:21
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tbf	bah... really sucks for profiling, that all the maemo stuff is compiled with -fomit-frame-pointers	14:24
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Khertan	tbf > haha !	14:38
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aquatix	it vomits on pointers? ;)	14:39
aquatix	can't really argue with that	14:39
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SDuensin	Greetings.	14:49
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WorkingOnWise	First problem: I haveI been beating my head on the wall all morning wondering y the simplified clone process is so complicated. The nupgrade.sh script says it cant find mbcache.ko. The script looks for it in /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.18-omap1 the /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/ 'uname -r' . I can clearly see mbcache.ko is in mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1. I am using sudo gainroot. Why cant the script see the module?	15:24
WorkingOnWise	uname -r does output 2.6.21-omap1	15:25
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johnx	you sure it isn't using the old kernel name somewhere else?	15:27
* johnx has no real idea...		15:27
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GeneralAntilles	That seems likely, johnx.	15:28
WorkingOnWise	I'm just following the script logic, and the first ting it does is sets the dir for the modules.	15:28
GeneralAntilles	I ran into that following a tutorial, anyway.	15:29
WorkingOnWise	I'nn edit the script to only look at the correct path and see.	15:29
WorkingOnWise	I'll	15:29
* GeneralAntilles didn't have any trouble when he used the script.		15:29
GeneralAntilles	But I suppose I'd already loaded the modules when I got to that point.	15:30
GeneralAntilles	There may be other issues involved, though, as I don't recall anybody else complaining about that issue with the scripts.	15:30
GeneralAntilles	s/scripts/script/	15:30
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: There may be other issues involved, though, as I don't recall anybody else complaining about that issue with the script.	15:30
WorkingOnWise	that brings up problem 2: The location for modules is readonly so I cant copy more modules into that dir. There are already modules for ext2, ext3, so this isn't a show stopper atm.	15:32
johnx	even better than readonly (which can be changed), it's also almost completely full	15:33
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johnx	The problems are worse than you think! yay!	15:33
GeneralAntilles	Hooray, embedded!	15:34
WorkingOnWise	so how do u get additionaf file system support?	15:34
johnx	you put the modules somewhere else and deal with loading them somehow	15:34
johnx	I think the standard practice is to create a /lib/modules/`uname -r`/ and ln -s the included modules into place, then cp your own custom stuff in there as well	15:35
WorkingOnWise	or jump that hurdle after i have cloned onto my roomy 8gb sd, right?	15:35
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trickie	one way i experimented with my own additional modules is to load them via a intit.d script, although that requires kernel support for your rootfs built in or as modules the initfs	15:40
trickie	or you could make your own initfs, and remove the modules there you do not need and then add your own modules to /lib/modules...	15:41
trickie	and then load the original modules from your rootfs	15:41
trickie	kernel support for your rootfs's filesystem i meant	15:42
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WorkingOnWise	I haveI been beating my head on the wall all morning wondering y the simplified clone process is so complicated. The nupgrade.sh script says it cant find mbcache.ko. The script looks for it in /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap, and I can clearly see mbcache.ko is in that dir. I am using sudo gainroot. Why cant the script see the module?	15:49
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trickie	WorkingOnWise: whats the nupgrade.sh from?	15:53
trickie	s/whats/where's/	15:53
infobot	trickie meant: WorkingOnWise: where's the nupgrade.sh from?	15:53
WorkingOnWise	it's part of the directions to clone the OS to an sd card on the forum at ITT	15:54
GeneralAntilles	Woo spam.	15:54
WorkingOnWise	infobot: your an idiot	15:54
GeneralAntilles	It's a bot.	15:54
WorkingOnWise	yeah	15:55
GeneralAntilles	trickie, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631	15:55
WorkingOnWise	thanks GeneralAntilles. thats what I'm working from trickie	15:55
trickie	oki, ill check it out	15:55
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trickie	WorkingOnWise: and it dies on './nupgrade.sh 3' ?	15:56
WorkingOnWise	nope. ./nupgrade.sh 0	15:57
trickie	hmm strange	15:59
WorkingOnWise	I'm gonna flash back to the base OS2008 and start from the beginning. If the simplified steps there don't work then, you can have a nice N800 if u can catch it as it zings past City Hall.	15:59
trickie	WorkingOnWise: can add 'echo $BINDIR' to line 42	16:00
trickie	and see what it thinks is the path	16:00
WorkingOnWise	ok. I'll try that first.	16:01
aquatix	WorkingOnWise: zing it my way ;)	16:01
WorkingOnWise	lol	16:01
jott	why fight with a script if manual cloning is straight forward? :)	16:02
* aquatix forgot his n810 at home :(		16:02
jott	this script even copied the stupid mountpoints from the wiki :O	16:03
trickie	WorkingOnWise: have you tried the manual way? its even easier	16:03
johnx	they're magic mount points :P	16:03
WorkingOnWise	because I aint wrappin my head around the whole depmod not working right, and cant figure out how to get ext3 support manually....	16:04
johnx	WorkingOnWise, insmod jbd.ko ; insmod mbcache.ko ; insmod ext3.ko ; echo success!	16:04
WorkingOnWise	I have been lullid by the word simplified! The only thing that has been simple in the init thingy...I have a boot menu now...	16:04
jott	easy way: copy all modules from initfs to /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/ and run depmod :)	16:05
WorkingOnWise	johnx: do those insmod commands need to be run every time, or are they "sticky"?	16:05
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johnx	eh? fanoush's bootmenu takes care of loading the right things for booting to sd card	16:06
jott	you just need the modules loaded for the cloning - once you boot from ext3, initfs handles the loading	16:06
johnx	just look at bootmenu.conf	16:06
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johnx	you've probably spent way more effort trying to troubleshoot what this script is doing rather than just do it the "long way" in the first place...	16:07
jott	long aka ~3-5 commands :)	16:07
cyberholic	Hi everyone, just in case the one or another of you uses my Mojocafe project on his/her device: the website-domain has changed! The website can now be reached through www.mojocafe.net and the blog through www.mojocafe.net/blog .....	16:08
jott	cyberholic: going international, eh? :)	16:08
GeneralAntilles	All the tutorials out there suck.	16:08
Lynoure	hmm, never ever heard of mojocafe...	16:08
GeneralAntilles	You guys should take pity on the poor people and write up a guide that doesn't suck. :P	16:08
Lynoure	Is that just spam, or something clickworth?	16:09
cyberholic	Lynoure: have put it nearly everywhere so that people can test it out on their devices :)	16:09
WorkingOnWise	ohhhhhhhhh.....Now I get it!!!!! I have been thinking that the modules need to be loaded, no that the boot menu would do it for me....I thought that if I did the insmod thing, i can see the ext3 partition but then on reboot there'd be no ext3 module loading so I would still have no acces to the ext3 partition I just cloned....	16:09
johnx	Lynoure, it's legitimate. :)	16:09
aquatix	cyberholic: wow, spiffy site :)	16:09
johnx	GeneralAntilles, you found the problem, that makes it yours. :P	16:09
aquatix	now to find out what mojocafe is	16:09
GeneralAntilles	I found nothing!	16:09
cyberholic	Lynoure: no spam as long you do not want to pimp up your device gg	16:09
cyberholic	aquatix: thanks!	16:09
cyberholic	aquatix: wait!..... what does spiffy mean? lol.	16:10
* GeneralAntilles furiously downgrades the severity of a bunch of bugzilla bugs to look busy.		16:10
johnx	s/found/complained about/	16:10
infobot	johnx meant: GeneralAntilles, you complained about the problem, that makes it yours. :P	16:10
aquatix	cyberholic: shiny ;)	16:10
GeneralAntilles	You two are the ones complaining about stupid mount points. :P	16:10
cyberholic	aquatix thanks a lot! feeling a bit ashamed	16:10
aquatix	ah, flash... meh :P	16:10
cyberholic	but well, shiny in these days does not automaticly mean that it is cool :)	16:10
aquatix	indeed	16:11
aquatix	browsing now	16:11
aquatix	looks interesting though	16:11
cyberholic	in case you wanna see how it works on your device: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4254502208055432294&hl=en	16:11
cyberholic	i assume you have a n800 or n810 :)	16:11
Lynoure	cyberholic: oh, it's your site?	16:11
GeneralAntilles	cyberholic, where's my magazine? :P	16:11
cyberholic	yep	16:11
cyberholic	i am a webdesigner... well, at least i try to be one :)	16:12
aquatix	it might help to create an `about' page with wtf mojocafe is :)	16:12
aquatix	seems like some applets	16:12
cyberholic	General: you mean Atarashi?	16:12
Lynoure	cyberholic: some feedback: do explain somewhere what these mojos are... now there is very little info other than screenshots	16:12
GeneralAntilles	Whatever it was called.	16:12
cyberholic	yeah, you both are correct - i am working on an "about page". And a gallery to post the photos of the blog showing my device glancing up my flat :)	16:13
GeneralAntilles	Aha, I see it.	16:13
aquatix	Lynoure: yeah, some About page would be nice	16:14
aquatix	cyberholic: ah, online applets	16:14
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cyberholic	aquatix: correct. At least the newsfeeds and the webcam applets can be called online ones - the clocks arent realy :)	16:15
cyberholic	I made an applet called "Webcam Traveller". It randomly switches between two dozens of webcams. It makes me mad to look outside the window and see snow, while looking on my device shows the Virgin Islands with 30 degrees celsius :(	16:17
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GeneralAntilles	Ha	16:17
* GeneralAntilles wants some snow.		16:17
* GeneralAntilles had the AC running last week.		16:17
cyberholic	really?	16:17
cyberholic	WHAT? how many degreees you have where oyu live?	16:17
GeneralAntilles	Highs are in the mid-80s	16:18
GeneralAntilles	°F	16:18
cyberholic	geeeeesus	16:18
trickie	GeneralAntilles: id be more than happy to swap you	16:18
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	16:18
cyberholic	trickie: ill come witcha :)	16:19
solmumaha	i got snow last night, around 30 cm. not too happy about it	16:19
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cyberholic	i HATE snow	16:19
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trickie	beats rain	16:19
solmumaha	spent an hour getting car unstuck	16:19
cyberholic	sol: have you tried dynamite?	16:20
johnx	not a big fan of lots of snow all winter long, but driving in snow once in a while is fun :D	16:20
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solmumaha	i like snow but not when you get that much at once	16:21
johnx	that's understandable	16:21
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aquatix	i love snow	16:22
aquatix	but it doesn't stay put nowadays here	16:22
trickie	still beats raining all the time	16:22
solmumaha	it didn't snow that much, but after several months you end up with pretty deep corridors. heavy wind filled them	16:23
aquatix	http://aquariusoft.org/photolog/	16:23
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aquatix	we had some snow last week though	16:23
aquatix	this week even	16:23
aquatix	solmumaha: where do you live?	16:24
solmumaha	in finland	16:24
aquatix	ah :)	16:24
cyberholic	aquatix: the toothbrush photo is AWESOME!	16:24
aquatix	cyberholic: ha, thanks :)	16:24
aquatix	i should take more pics	16:24
aquatix	but i'm swamped :(	16:25
trickie	aquatix: you in NL?	16:25
* johnx should get a better camera		16:26
inz	solmumaha, I have the same situation, all the plowed areas are ful of snow -- and I have fever and thus no energy to clean it up	16:26
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X-Fade	trickie: "Stadsschouwburg Velsen" should give you a clue ;)	16:27
trickie	:)	16:27
johnx	living in an apartment means that other people get to deal with snow :P	16:27
solmumaha	inz: luckily i have a snow blower, but someone stole my gasoline canister	16:28
aquatix	trickie: yeah	16:28
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trickie	X-Fade: well actually the most recent photos made me ask, as the houses/apartements look dutch and the amount of snow looked familiar	16:29
aquatix	:)	16:29
aquatix	trickie: houses all look the same nowadays	16:29
X-Fade	trickie: Yeah, me too.	16:29
aquatix	you can see in what year the neighbourhood is build	16:30
trickie	for sure	16:30
aquatix	oh well, i'm happy with my maissonette anyway ;)	16:30
trickie	he he	16:32
cyberholic	ok guys, i have to go back to work. in case you have a wish for a special Mojo in mojocafe contact me! See ya later my friends ... oh... THE SUN! the sun is coming out! i have to go now!	16:32
aquatix	noooes! the sun is coming!	16:32
* aquatix hides		16:32
cyberholic	looool	16:32
cyberholic	byebye	16:33
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MangoFusion	darn, wish i was good at soldering. two of the switches in my nokia phone have... err... fallen off	16:39
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aquatix	MangoFusion: right ;)	16:40
aquatix	electronics murderer!	16:40
MangoFusion	wonder if i can get it fixed through warranty	16:41
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MangoFusion	though then again i dropped the phone and it went bouncy bounce, so maybe not	16:42
aquatix	don't tell them you dropped it	16:44
aquatix	and try	16:44
errordeveloper	right ..	16:49
errordeveloper	i'm still trying to get the otg-usb plugin to work ..	16:49
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errordeveloper	i don't get ifconfig showing anything like usb0	16:50
errordeveloper	is it just like that ?	16:50
errordeveloper	and it actully freezes :(	16:51
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MangoFusion	could do that i guess	16:54
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WorkingOnWise	are the maemo repos slow as molasas in March, or it the N800 download mechanism slow as molasas in March?	16:57
WorkingOnWise	wrong forum for that type of ?? sorry	16:57
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WorkingOnWise	wait..no it isn't. What was I thinking. Are the repos and download section of the maemo site down? cant get to either one on my tablet	17:05
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aquatix	maemo.org had some problems	17:05
aquatix	not sure whether the repositories are affected	17:05
WorkingOnWise	now it's working...grrrr.	17:07
aquatix	voodoo	17:07
johnx	aren't the repos served out of akamai's cache?	17:07
johnx	s/repos/maemo.org repos/	17:08
infobot	johnx meant: aren't the maemo.org repos served out of akamai's cache?	17:08
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WorkingOnWise	threat of throwing everything with a cpu into the wood stove did it!	17:08
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aquatix	WorkingOnWise: threatening with a hammer works too	17:12
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ertwroc	hi	18:01
ertwroc	why when I type in scratbox pkg-config --libs dbus-1 I get "No package 'dbus-1' found?	18:02
johnx	I don't know	18:04
johnx	it "works for me"	18:04
ertwroc	hmm	18:04
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ertwroc	ok, now it works :)	18:06
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ertwroc	but I get error: /usr/include/dbus-1.0/sbus/dbus.h:30:2 #error "Please define DBUS_API_SUBJECT_TO_CHANGE (...) hmm what's going on? For pc I compiled it without problem	18:08
kulve	new dbusses doesn't require that anymore	18:09
kulve	I don't know what is "new" in this case..	18:09
ertwroc	can I do anything?	18:10
kulve	"#define DBUS_API_SUBJECT_TO_CHANGE" before the include	18:11
kulve	it was meant to say to the developers that the API wasn't stable yet	18:11
ertwroc	thanks a lot	18:14
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cbx33	hey guys	18:45
cbx33	is there a good podcast downloader for the n800, like gpodder	18:46
qwerty12	gpodder exists for N800 :p	18:46
cbx33	oooooooh	18:46
cbx33	from where?	18:46
GeneralAntilles	Or use Canola	18:46
GeneralAntilles	http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=gpodder+maemo	18:46
qwerty12	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/gpodder/	18:46
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oilinki	canola can not do automatic fetching?	18:47
oilinki	or is there some setting where I can define, check the feeds every 1 hour?	18:48
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cbx33	qwerty12, where do I get gpodder from?	18:48
qwerty12	I & General just posted links.	18:48
cbx33	oh	18:48
cbx33	sorry	18:48
cbx33	not paying attention	18:48
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GeneralAntilles	Not at the moment, cbx33, but it's on the roadmap.	18:49
cbx33	eh?	18:49
cbx33	GeneralAntilles, what did you mean	18:49
qwerty12	I think he meant oilinki	18:49
cbx33	ahhh	18:50
GeneralAntilles	Canola will do automatic fetching at some point.	18:50
* cbx33 is again not paying attention		18:50
GeneralAntilles	Actually, it may do it now in the latest beta	18:50
GeneralAntilles	I haven't checked	18:50
GeneralAntilles	But podcasts did get a big overhaul.	18:50
oilinki	GeneralAntilles: ok. thanks. I'll keep on using it.	18:51
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* GeneralAntilles doesn't use podcasts except on roadtrips.		18:51
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GeneralAntilles	s/messed up grammar/correct grammar/	18:52
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oilinki	http://oil.iki.fi/n800/screenshots/n800-with-vodafone-3g-logo.png	18:55
oilinki	oh.. ups.	18:55
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qwerty12	Lol, what is the point of that :P?	18:56
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GeneralAntilles	Haha, qwerty12, I just realized there were two different people there.	18:56
GeneralAntilles	Colloquy sucks at picking nick colors. :\	18:56
GeneralAntilles	I was wondering what an "oilinki" was and why I would mean it. :D	18:57
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qwerty12	Lol, are they same colour? (the names)	18:57
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qwerty12	Lol :D	18:57
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GeneralAntilles	Names of similar length have the unfortunate tendency of frequently being the same color.	18:58
GeneralAntilles	I could make the hash suck less, but I'm way too lazy.	18:58
oilinki	I'm wondering if there will be any april fools joke on maemo.org ;)	18:58
Daviey	Hi, i can't see how to plan a route with maemo-mapper	18:59
GeneralAntilles	Daviey, use the built-in help	18:59
GeneralAntilles	It's REALLY good.	18:59
Daviey	using the latest version, but i can't find the "Location" submenu under context, any ideas?	18:59
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles: Eek, I'm using X-Chat. I find its assortment of colours odd :P but I guess it works.	18:59
GeneralAntilles	gnuite also has it online for easier perusal.	18:59
GeneralAntilles	Xchat is better at hashing.	18:59
GeneralAntilles	I wish there were a client with enough colors for everybody to actually be unique.	18:59
Daviey	Yeah, following that - but the "Location" menu under context doesn't seem to be there :/	19:00
GeneralAntilles	qverty12, you can change the colors in prefs.	19:00
qwerty12	Ah ok, thanks :)	19:00
Daviey	irssi supports multiple colours :)	19:00
GeneralAntilles	irssi doesn't really scale well to my use.	19:00
GeneralAntilles	and a screen session really wouldn't provide much benefit for my use.	19:00
qwerty12	I tried irssi on N800, I'll admit, not exactly a computer but I wasn't really impressed.	19:01
Daviey	GeneralAntilles: i use it for over 240 channels, WFM	19:01
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GeneralAntilles	Daviey, I'm not saying that it's not awesome, or that it doesn't scale well	19:02
GeneralAntilles	it just doesn't scale well for ME.	19:02
Daviey	fair enough	19:02
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GeneralAntilles	For as long as IRC has been around, it's surprising how bad most of the clients are.	19:03
lcdd	it's hard to imagine any console program being very usable on the tablets	19:04
derf	What's really astounding is how bad console clients were _before_ irssi.	19:06
derf	"Let's just dump all of the text from all of the channels in the same window."	19:06
GeneralAntilles	Haha	19:06
GeneralAntilles	Too true, derf.	19:06
oilinki	derf: I used to use ircII until last year.. good enough	19:07
MangoFusion	wish someone ported MS Comic Chat over to the NIT	19:07
MangoFusion	that would be a cool irc client ;)	19:07
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Lynoure	It's the combination of irc and ADD like need to follow every channel every moment that makes it hard. Things work quite sweet with most clients with 5 or so channels :)	19:08
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oilinki	ok. what would be a good and open server/clients for chat like irc?	19:08
Lynoure	unfortunately I tend to have about 30 channels or querys, on average. Not much more useful than the five most relevant, really.	19:09
oilinki	which would have clients for mobile phones, windows, linux, mac etc?	19:09
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GeneralAntilles	xchat and irssi are the most ubiquitous.	19:09
oilinki	and which protocol? sip ja jabber?	19:10
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Lynoure	oilinki: unless you are in the position to move whole groups, I'd stick to irc :)	19:10
oilinki	Lynoure: heh. well. I'm thinking how to get the irc-style chats for common usage	19:11
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GeneralAntilles	"common usage"?	19:11
oilinki	GeneralAntilles: make it popular. there are some web-based chat's on the web pages, but I have not seen any good ones	19:12
GeneralAntilles	pjirc is OK	19:12
GeneralAntilles	There's no need to change the protocol to make it popular.	19:12
GeneralAntilles	The clients tend to be more of a problem	19:13
Lynoure	oilinki: it's already a lot more popular than it was in 1991...	19:13
GeneralAntilles	plus the exposure.	19:13
oilinki	pjirc looks good on the mobile phone?	19:13
GeneralAntilles	Really, I feel no need to make IRC any more popular than it is.	19:13
oilinki	I mean, it should be something that the common users would like adapt to	19:14
GeneralAntilles	Just look at what happened when Ubuntu got popular. :P	19:14
Lynoure	GeneralAntilles: servers too... I don't think the protocol can stand a network being very popular... gets heavy during splits	19:14
GeneralAntilles	(or the NITs <_<)	19:14
oilinki	Lynoure: yes. and more popular than it was in 1990 too :)	19:14
GeneralAntilles	Do you REALLY want to attract the AOL chatroom types to IRC? :P	19:15
Lynoure	GeneralAntilles: looked at some distro's offtopic channels? =)	19:15
oilinki	ok what about separate servers? no interconnection to any other network. just for let's say hobbyists/	19:15
Lynoure	or some of the freenode social channels	19:15
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oilinki	GeneralAntilles: I have no idea who are on AOL chatrooms, but I guess I can be happy about it :)	19:16
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* GeneralAntilles was an AOL user in the early-mid 90s.		19:17
* GeneralAntilles shudders.		19:17
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qwerty12	I really hate AOL, I'm not sure how it differs in the USA but I really hate the AOL software etc	19:17
GeneralAntilles	It's only gotten worse with each version increment.	19:18
GeneralAntilles	1.0-4.0 weren't THAT bad.	19:18
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Lynoure	I've only touched AOL software once, for testing	19:18
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oilinki	seems like AOL is the irc's counterpart for hitler-card :)	19:21
oilinki	all the talk stops	19:22
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oilinki	still going back to the server/client solution for a chat. do you see that sip or jabber would be better than irc in the future?	19:23
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Lynoure	better in some specific way?	19:25
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snake_mountain	Greetings from mars. Anyone here have ogg support working?	19:25
kulve	o/	19:25
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GeneralAntilles	Eh, the protocol wont really change things.	19:25
oilinki	Lynoure: as the client availability for masses, automatic configuration etc.	19:26
kulve	I'm using silc nowadays in place of irc	19:27
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Lynoure	oilinki: irc clients have already gotten pretty good... I suppose jabber clients will get better also with time	19:28
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oilinki	well, I guess irc could do. which clients are easy to configure for windows or s60?	19:30
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oilinki	s60 ota would be great, but not likely :)	19:30
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Lynoure	oilinki: I don't use either of those systems for irc, sorry	19:32
GNUrante	Hi	19:33
jott	but you can be sure that there are clients for both :)	19:33
wom-	hmm, where is locale information stored. like time/date format. python's locale doesn't seem to get it right	19:33
GNUrante	where OS2008 wireless manager saves the passwords?	19:33
oilinki	silky seems to look quite ok	19:33
qwerty12	In Gconf	19:33
wom-	qwerty12: whats the key	19:34
qwerty12	I mean about the wifi question :)	19:34
wom-	ah :)	19:34
wom-	well, locale most likely is also in gconf, just has to find the key :)	19:34
jott	search for IAP	19:35
jott	.. /system/osso/connectivity/IAP	19:36
GNUrante	jott: thank you	19:36
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qwerty12	Is "gcc: /scratchbox/compilers/host-gcc/host-gcc.specs: No such file or directory	19:38
qwerty12	error: command '/scratchbox/compilers/host-gcc/bin/gcc' failed with exit status 1	19:38
qwerty12	" a usual error?#	19:38
kulve	I don't think so..	19:38
kulve	at least I haven't seen that..	19:38
qwerty12	ok thanks. I'm un7zing the vmware appliance. I'll mount the image in my Ubuntu and move the host-gcc folder from the vmware image. I have nothing to lose.	19:39
kulve	doesn't sound like something that will work..	19:40
kulve	what are you trying to do? Do you have host-gcc toolchain installed?	19:40
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konttori	Hi everyone!	19:41
* konttori has been testing writing home applets on python		19:41
qwerty12	kulve: I'm trying to compile a program in ARMEL target. My host-gcc folder is empty, save a symlink to a lib file.	19:41
qwerty12	konttori: Hi :)	19:42
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konttori	hi	19:42
wom-	how is the applet coming?	19:42
kulve	qwerty12: I think nobody is interested about host-gcc when compiling "normal" application in armel target..	19:42
konttori	well, I'm just testing the way to do stuff atm.	19:43
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qwerty12	This program cares :(. I've even tried symlinking the host-gcc to the current toolchain it uses : cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm	19:44
kulve	the host-gcc needs to be a host-gcc for SB, you cannot use any other toolchain	19:44
wom-	konttori: have you seen this http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=142609&postcount=5	19:44
konttori	yeah. I have	19:45
kulve	qwerty12: http://scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/apophis/tarball/scratchbox-toolchain-host-gcc-1.0.8-i386.tar.gz	19:45
kulve	like that one	19:45
qwerty12	kulve: Ok, thanks. I'll look into it.	19:45
qwerty12	My favourite and the only python home applets I know are here: http://khertan.net/	19:46
wom-	konttori: you have done lots of python on maemo, right? have you had ever need to format some dates and times so that they use proper locale setting	19:46
konttori	Well, I've done some python on maemo.	19:46
konttori	No, I haven't needed to convert datetimes	19:47
konttori	but you should be able to do it like this:	19:47
konttori	import locale	19:47
konttori	locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')	19:47
wom-	konttori: I just need to and python locale doesn't seem to work..	19:47
wom-	konttori: ok i will try that before i say it doesn't work :)	19:48
konttori	at least it's not setting to the env locale if you don't run that command first	19:48
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wom-	konttori: ok that was it.. thank you :D	19:49
konttori	np!	19:49
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qwerty12	Ok, I managed to get this program to compile. I'm not hot on dh_make but can you redirect where make install installs?	19:51
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kulve	in the debian rules file?	19:54
kulve	hmm.. I don't have dh_make in my rules at all	19:55
qwerty12	No, I mean without creating a deb. I'm pretty lazy, I just tar.gz little releases. But I have luck today, I have dh_make working :)	19:55
kulve	creating a deb is simple. Normally a 4 line rules file is enough..	19:56
henrique	does anyone know some documentation about how contacts work in maemo?	19:56
qwerty12	kulve: I had trouble last time, I'm not really a developer at heart :D	19:57
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henrique	I would like to know how the interfaces can to link contacts with user accounts, the maemo's addressbook database seem to not have anything to link these two things	19:57
henrique	so, given a contact how do I know the accounts which allow me to make a conversation with him?	19:59
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Yanch0	Hi, I have installed Maemo as per these instructions : http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/chinook/INSTALL.txt .. When I try to load it, and go to Install Hello World Application, I get an OK dialago, but it does not feautre in the Installed Applications. This is the full log : http://yancho.pastebin.com/d68544600 - Any idea please?	20:23
wazd	Good evening all)	20:23
qwerty12	Hello wazd :)	20:24
wazd	Any Hildon guru's here?)	20:25
wazd	I have 2 questions :)	20:25
konttori	By the way, cairo on python is mind bogglingly great! Especially in home applets!!!	20:25
* konttori leaves		20:25
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wazd	Damn! Kontorri, get back here! I need you!)	20:25
wazd	aaaawwww(	20:26
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konttori	did you have something in mind?	20:26
wazd	Aw! you're here!)	20:26
wazd	hi)	20:26
h3sp4wn	Can anyone enlighten me on exactly how the countrycode thing works - where the mac address is stored etc (what I can do to get past it) don't mind soldering a jtag / serial if I need to - I cannot see anything illegal about modding it to work in the UK	20:26
konttori	I had to check one bit of code before I close down the computer	20:27
wazd	Can you help me a bit with Hildon objects. Is there a graduated volume bar object? Like in built in brightness settings	20:27
wazd	I haven't found any man bout it so I don't know how to make more/less than 5 grades :)	20:28
wazd	or is it possible	20:28
konttori	well, you have the volume bar for example in the volume control status bar applet	20:29
konttori	so, yes, there should be a widget for it	20:29
wazd	nono, i need not volume bar :)	20:29
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konttori	http://maemo.org/development/documentation/apis/3-x/python-maemo-3.x/python_hildon_widgets_api.html	20:29
konttori	ahh.. what then?	20:30
wazd	I need a widget like in brightness	20:30
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wazd	with "square" grades	20:30
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wazd	aw	20:32
wazd	maybe "control bar" is that thing?)	20:32
konttori	Ahh... like that. Well. I'm not sure, but HildonControlbar might be the one you need. If not, just create it yourself	20:32
qwerty12	Does anyone have debhelper installed on internet tablet? I would install dpkg says it needs 45 MB to install and I only have 20MB left. I need someone to test something. PM me at Internet Tablet Talk (user name qwerty12) as I'm not on IRC as much and I have to go soon.	20:32
wazd	Ok, thanks a lot :)	20:32
konttori	np. Sorry that I didn't have the andswer immediately. But you found it yourself: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/apis/3-x/python-maemo-3.x/pyhildon_controlbar.html	20:33
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konttori	ok. have a great evening all!	20:33
wazd	Finger friendly interfaces ownz :)	20:33
konttori	true!	20:33
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koyote	wow. some odd bugs in kbdd	20:33
wazd	Aw, hell, i've forgot to ask second question :)	20:36
wazd	Does anybody knows is it possible to scale hildon widgets?)	20:36
KotCzarny	wazd: probably	20:36
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KotCzarny	at least they're theme settable	20:37
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GeneralAntilles	wazd, yes.	20:39
wazd	ok, i'll hack it out, thanks :)	20:39
wazd	oh, great :)	20:39
GeneralAntilles	Not at all familiar with the specifics, though. :P	20:39
wazd	so i can make control bar wider for example?	20:39
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* lcuk ooohs and ahhhhs at eee touch		20:43
* lcuk doesnt think it will replace this form factor tho		20:43
mgedmin	what's eee touch?	20:44
lcuk	new model discussed for release - slightly bigger screen but with touch	20:44
mgedmin	is that the same or different from the 9" model?	20:46
lcuk	http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/12330/13354/asus-prepping-9-inch-touchscreen-eee.phtml	20:46
Cptnodegard	whats the best maps reposotory for maemo mapper?	20:47
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mgedmin	best in what sense? freedom -> openstreetmap; coverage -> probably google maps	20:47
mgedmin	for certain locations "best" maybe different from the globally average "best"	20:48
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mgedmin	e.g. there are towns with better openstreetmap than google maps coverage	20:48
mgedmin	otoh osm's rendered is not as good	20:48
mgedmin	and the colours clash somewhat with maemo mapper's route and track markers	20:48
Cptnodegard	tbh im a bit lost with the whole thing, how to make it download a map for an entire area like the maps aplication does	20:48
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elb	openstreetmap's renderings are suckola	20:49
mgedmin	speaking of maemo mapper, any plans to make it work with the OS2008 gps infrastructure?	20:49
elb	mgedmin: in what sense?	20:49
elb	it plays nicely as it is, as best I can tell	20:49
mgedmin	Cptnodegard: maps -> manage maps...	20:49
mgedmin	has the area download	20:49
lcuk	what format are the maps supplied onboard the 810?	20:49
mgedmin	elb: colour clash? the red track is hard to see on the reddish-pink street	20:50
elb	mgedmin: no, I think it was to do with the way labels were applied	20:50
elb	I forget, I quit using it early on	20:50
luddek	i think the maps for the map program on os2008 is better than the ones i fid for maemo mapper, is there at possibility to use the os2008 maps or map program on os2007?	20:50
Cptnodegard	im zooming and zooming on my location but all i see is the ineter-europe road and the train tracks, does that mean nothing else is covered?	20:50
elb	like, I think it didn't label streets at farther zoom levels where Google Maps did, or something	20:51
mgedmin	elb: I was trying to clarify your "mgedmin: in what sense?"	20:51
mgedmin	maemo mapper + os2008? it doesn't integrate with the gps daemon	20:51
elb	mgedmin: oh, I meant ... in what sense do you want the GPS to work with the os2008 gps infrastructure	20:51
elb	right, it doesn't, but it still seems to play nicely	20:51
mgedmin	essentially it can't use the n810's built-in gps unless some other apps does the d-bus magic and makes the built-in gpsd start	20:51
GeneralAntilles	Cptnodegard, see the built-in help (also available online)	20:51
elb	oh, really?	20:51
Cptnodegard	lcuk: the biggest files in the maps folder that the maps aplication made has the extension .qt	20:51
GeneralAntilles	It's really quite excellent.	20:51
elb	I've never had it not see the GPS	20:51
elb	you didn't set it to gpsd, did you?	20:52
mgedmin	do you use /dev/pgps or gpsd on localhost?	20:52
elb	the instructions say to leave it set to 'autodetect bluetooth gps' or whatever	20:52
GeneralAntilles	mgedmin, Bluetooth field, leave the MAC blank.	20:52
GeneralAntilles	Should work fine.	20:52
mgedmin	GeneralAntilles: that's cool but completely non-discoverable!	20:52
lcuk	Cptnodegard, so if i grab a couple of the smaller .qt files and see what i can make of them	20:52
elb	it's in the documentation	20:52
GeneralAntilles	^	20:52
mgedmin	I mean, WHO READS THE DOCUMENTATION, really???	20:52
KotCzarny	i do	20:52
KotCzarny	sometimes	20:52
KotCzarny	:)	20:52
lcuk	i did cower	20:52
mgedmin	strange person :)	20:52
lcuk	while i was waiting for initial battery charge	20:53
elb	wherever it was was obvious enough that I knew it by the first time I ran maemo mapper	20:53
elb	it's like on the download page or something, even, I think	20:53
GeneralAntilles	I don't even have an N810 and I know. :P	20:53
Cptnodegard	lcuk, theres a shitload of files in the folder, most of which are.qt. some bin, some dat	20:53
lcuk	yer im looking and ill see what i can discover	20:54
lcuk	there isnt a filemon equivilent for linux is there?	20:54
lcuk	so i can watch what happens when i run map	20:54
mgedmin	lcuk: strace can kinda do that	20:55
Cptnodegard	quick q: in maemo mapper, "cache DB" is where it will save maps i take it?	20:55
mgedmin	yes	20:55
Cptnodegard	:)	20:55
mgedmin	what's the /dev/pgps option for?	20:55
mgedmin	I have a /dev/pgps on the n810, but it doesn't work with maemo mapper ("can't connect to the GPS" after a timeout, iirc)	20:56
Cptnodegard	the mpas license is worth it i think :/	21:00
Cptnodegard	either that or i have to move	21:00
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WorkingOnWise	ok. I got it- OS2008 cloned onto my sd card. Tried it a second time on a fresh 1gb SD card. There were some extra details either left out, or not updated for OS2008. It takes all of 5 minutes to do once all the info is available! I'm putting the steps I usd in a blog later, but should I post it also in the howto I started with? It is reaallllyy long and doubt most people will read so far doen to actually see my post. It isn't	21:02
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KotCzarny	some people do, so, yes	21:05
KotCzarny	add your notes for people like you	21:05
WorkingOnWise	lol....I dont like people KotCzarny...what then? :D	21:05
KotCzarny	if you don't like people then don't use their work.	21:06
KotCzarny	and DON'T ask us for help	21:06
KotCzarny	and DON'T read maemo.org howtos	21:06
KotCzarny	and fuck you.	21:06
lcuk	if the additional things you had to do enable the process to work better or smoother or complete some part left out, then please do add a comment. amongst other things blog comments are searchable and if the information is valid the origignal posted may actually update the original	21:07
WorkingOnWise	look u litttle piss ant....I was joking. Did u see the smile??	21:07
KotCzarny	psychos smile too	21:07
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lcuk	they smile more than normal ppl	21:08
lcuk	but its the eyes that are a problem	21:08
WorkingOnWise	I just spent a very frusterating trying to follow incomplete instructions for what has turned out to be a very simple task...and now I am asking what to do with my newfound info....and u cuss me out???!!!	21:08
lcuk	they are shifty	21:08
KotCzarny	me?	21:08
KotCzarny	i suggested what you should do	21:08
WorkingOnWise	frusterating morning	21:09
KotCzarny	and you answered with 'i don't like people (i won't share then)'	21:09
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WorkingOnWise	(03:06:41 PM) KotCzarny: and fuck you.	21:09
KotCzarny	<WorkingOnWise> look u litttle piss ant....	21:09
WorkingOnWise	(03:05:54 PM) WorkingOnWise: lol....I dont like people KotCzarny...what then? :D	21:09
elb	oh good, a paste war	21:10
elb	I love it	21:10
lcuk	lol hey you two, i can read the scrollback	21:10
elb	nobody here has a scrollback	21:10
* mgedmin brings the popcorn		21:10
lcuk	go on - repeat the repeats	21:10
KotCzarny	elb: at least those are one liners	21:10
KotCzarny	:>	21:10
aVirulence	hi, can someone point me to a link to the webmail applet for chinook? I had it before, but I can't find it anymore	21:10
WorkingOnWise	yes..I did say that..it's true....whatever...clearly u are a waste of my keystrokes....	21:10
KotCzarny	<WorkingOnWise> yes..I did say that..it's true....whatever...clearly u are a waste of my	21:10
KotCzarny	+keystrokes....	21:10
dtahtbot	KotCzarny: Error: "keystrokes...." is not a valid command.	21:10
lcuk	right ladies - can we have some order - WorkingOnWise, please do update the notes. it will be worthwhile	21:11
mgedmin	yay, even the bots jump into the fray!	21:11
KotCzarny	whos bot it is anyway?	21:11
KotCzarny	and what's it's purpose? :>	21:11
WorkingOnWise	I will do that lcuk	21:11
mgedmin	"mikeisawayfromirctoomuch"	21:12
KotCzarny	mirc	21:12
* KotCzarny shrugs		21:12
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KotCzarny	i wonder when someone tries to put wince on IT	21:13
KotCzarny	:>	21:13
aVirulence	Let me repeat my question for the one's that aren't reading through the flamewar ;-) hi, can someone point me to a link to the webmail applet for chinook? I had it before, but I can't find it anymore	21:13
Cptnodegard	webmail applet? gmail notifyer?	21:14
KotCzarny	'ossoemail' ?	21:14
WorkingOnWise	I just get a lil cranky when ppl get pissy over what was clearly a comment in gest....it is a stereotypical script kiddie thing to blast out profanity when they have come to the end of their intelligence...	21:14
KotCzarny	WorkingOnWise: it was you who started it	21:15
aVirulence	Cptnodegard, the gmail notifyer	21:15
KotCzarny	i answered your question	21:15
KotCzarny	you responded with attitude	21:15
GeneralAntilles	WorkingOnWise, it's called /ignore. ;)	21:15
GeneralAntilles	Try it.	21:15
WorkingOnWise	now I'll go document my findings so others can avoin the frusteration I had this morning.	21:15
KotCzarny	so in general you have the right to make 'a little jokes'	21:16
WorkingOnWise	GeneralAntilles: yup....already did that :) thanks.	21:16
KotCzarny	and everyone else is forbidden	21:16
GeneralAntilles	Welcome to the club. :D	21:16
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WorkingOnWise	avoin=avoid	21:16
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KotCzarny	oh, the attitude	21:16
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lcuk	wow - no1 has done enough to be ignored, mind you i didnt even know i could ignore people, so maybe eventually i might find some1 worthy	21:17
Cptnodegard	[20:15] <aVirulence> Cptnodegard, the gmail notifyer <- i have it on my app installer, its called mnotify. so it has to be in some repository	21:17
GeneralAntilles	s/1/one/g <_> >_<	21:17
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aVirulence	Cptnodegard, thanks, I guess I'll find it, thanks a lot	21:18
lcuk	\ignore GeneralAntilles ;)	21:18
aVirulence	I didn't remember the name	21:18
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lcuk	sometimes thou on irc it would be better to /erasefrommemory	21:18
Cptnodegard	aVirulence, its in the nokia rep, so you prob have it now that you have the name :)	21:19
KotCzarny	what was seen, cannot be unseen	21:19
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KotCzarny	:)	21:19
lcuk	my eyes. the goggles, they do nothing.	21:19
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	21:19
aVirulence	Cptnodegard, yeah, found it, :)	21:19
lcuk	WARNING: do not look into the IRC with your remaining eye	21:20
KotCzarny	third eye	21:21
WorkingOnWise	I am unclear one one thing....when I did insmod (modules I needed) , was that a one time thing? I rebooted the IT, then duplicated my steps to clone, and all went fine. AFTER it was done, I remembered that I didnt do the insmod (modules I needed) again.	21:21
lcuk	i never point that at the screen - the monitor wont ever be the same again	21:21
KotCzarny	you could see things as they really are	21:22
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KotCzarny	that's really dangerous	21:22
KotCzarny	:)	21:22
lcuk	not really dangerous - its not like im expecting shards of glass or anything	21:23
* GeneralAntilles remote-detonates lcuk's CRT.		21:23
WorkingOnWise	lol....ouch	21:23
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lcuk	good thing the CRT is in the dump	21:23
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GeneralAntilles	Damn!	21:23
GeneralAntilles	Foiled again.	21:23
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WorkingOnWise	I hate foil	21:24
* GeneralAntilles wraps himself in his cape and disappears in a puff of smoke.		21:24
* lcuk puts his nice tinfoil hat on		21:24
WorkingOnWise	lol....smells like burning batteries	21:24
* KotCzarny yawns		21:24
* GeneralAntilles plots.		21:24
* lcuk psets		21:24
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WorkingOnWise	is insmod sticky? do I have to do it every time I reboot if I want those modules available?	21:25
lcuk	what modules are you on about	21:25
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elb	insmod is not sticky	21:26
WorkingOnWise	right now just ext3 , but I want to try this out on reiserfs too	21:26
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lcuk	reiserfs is dead isnt it? or am i mixing it up with someone else?	21:27
KotCzarny	define 'dead'	21:27
lcuk	or did it just go back to russia?	21:27
WorkingOnWise	it isnt...then that must mean the boot menu I installed is handleing the modules for me....	21:27
WorkingOnWise	reiserfs is in a questionable development state right now, but 3.6 is in use enough that I shouldn't ignore it....	21:28
KotCzarny	Yikes, www.namesys.com isn't loading right now.	21:29
WorkingOnWise	I am wanting to turn my tablet into a forensics analysis device for hard drives, cd's and dvd's	21:29
KotCzarny	well, maybe it is	21:29
WorkingOnWise	so reiserfs will be part of the tool kit....	21:29
lcuk	to be honest, wouldnt a standard lappy be better for full forensics?	21:30
elb	lappy should be struck from the lexicon	21:30
elb	possibly along with anyone who finds it reasonable to utter it	21:31
elb	come over here so I can strike you down, lcuk	21:31
WorkingOnWise	it would....but the IT is way easier to carry, and recover if there is a problem.	21:31
lcuk	ok, tabletop computer	21:31
WorkingOnWise	my lappy in on my lap right now...	21:31
WorkingOnWise	hehe	21:31
KotCzarny	elb: those are 'desktop replacements'	21:32
KotCzarny	;)	21:32
elb	'lappy' is a desktop replacement?	21:32
KotCzarny	yup	21:32
elb	I thought it was a travesty of an abbreviation for "laptop"	21:32
lcuk	its a bit small for a desktop replacement, where would you put your lamp	21:32
WorkingOnWise	I have always wanted a pc in my palm...now I got it and I'm gona push it's limits....see just what it can do.	21:32
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lcuk	no prob working :)	21:32
* lcuk feels the same way		21:33
KotCzarny	elb: most laptops right now are big as hell	21:33
WorkingOnWise	elb: it is...I'm lazy....I save 2 keystrokes every time i use it...	21:33
elb	yes, I know	21:33
lcuk	i installed WOW on it the other day - im still waiting for the loading screen to come on	21:33
elb	but that's just because people are stupid	21:33
elb	and the industry provides what people want	21:33
WorkingOnWise	lol...u didn't really install WOW on an IT did u?	21:33
KotCzarny	and noise as hell too	21:33
KotCzarny	noisy	21:34
lcuk	no	21:34
WorkingOnWise	good	21:34
WorkingOnWise	that would be painful...	21:34
lcuk	i lied, elb, you must strike me down for that as well	21:34
elb	I demand a 500MHz ARM laptop with a full-size keyboard, wireless, and 12h of battery life	21:34
WorkingOnWise	the framerate would ne fpm's	21:34
elb	the framerate wouldn't matter since the processor isn't intel	21:34
lcuk	elb, you can have 2/3 though ;)	21:34
lcuk	you could theoretically run it	21:34
KotCzarny	elb: that will be n800 + igo slim + psp external battery pack	21:34
elb	KotCzarny: also a usable screen	21:35
KotCzarny	define usable	21:35
lcuk	eee 9 inch touch....soon...	21:35
elb	enough pixels to do real work	21:35
lcuk	...	21:35
* lcuk drools		21:35
elb	on a display where you don't have to use them all for a single letter ;-)	21:35
KotCzarny	hmm, usb projector?	21:35
KotCzarny	oh, i know	21:35
KotCzarny	'screen magnifiers' :)	21:36
elb	the n810 has a sexy display for sure, but you have to use such large-in-pixelsize fonts that it's not much of a "work" machine	21:36
lcuk	i adore the arm processor - it reminds me of my amiga	21:36
* lcuk still mourns it		21:36
elb	the iBook 12" was pretty much the ultimate laptop, as far as form factor is concerned, I think	21:36
elb	if it were produced today with modern manufacturing, I'd buy it in a heartbeat	21:36
KotCzarny	i prefer ibm x30-x32	21:36
elb	(because that would give it the 12h battery life)	21:36
lcuk	elb - bigger eee + touch is close	21:36
elb	lcuk: the eee would have to be a lot bigger	21:37
elb	its keyboard is nowhere NEAR full size	21:37
lcuk	humans have this thing for macro zooming - MOVE CLOSER	21:37
KotCzarny	transparent osk	21:37
KotCzarny	lcuk: looking at objects closer than foot away is straining your eyes	21:37
lcuk	i have an apple wireless kb and its not fullsize but it feels like it	21:37
elb	lcuk: except that's not true at all	21:37
KotCzarny	read: bling soon	21:37
KotCzarny	blind	21:38
WorkingOnWise	is kde a reasonable DE for the N800? Or i it a novelty, just to say it can be done?	21:38
lcuk	novelty but i think ppl have compiled it	21:38
elb	the apple wireless keyboard isn't full size?	21:38
elb	are you sure about that?	21:38
lcuk	its geared for mouse	21:38
elb	I think its key centers are standard pitch	21:38
lcuk	yer - its laptop sized - its not got all keys	21:38
KotCzarny	i would love igo kb with trackpoint	21:38
elb	oh, so, yeah, it's full sized	21:38
lcuk	yes, maybe standard sized keys but not a full size keyboard	21:38
KotCzarny	:>	21:38
elb	number of keys is not what is meant by "full size"	21:38
KotCzarny	or better yet optical track point	21:38
elb	the number of keys is usually expressed by key count	21:39
elb	e.g., 102 or 104 key	21:39
elb	I don't care about all those extra keys, anyway, they're useless	21:39
lcuk	ahhh so a fullsize keyboard with only 3 keys is a bit lame	21:39
elb	anything with less than the standard qwerty layout (or insert your local layout) simply wouldn't be called a "keyboard" ;-)	21:40
elb	or it would be modified, like "one-hand" or "special purpose" or whatever	21:40
KotCzarny	letter entry apparatus	21:40
MangoFusion	like http://pauillac.inria.fr/~xleroy/stuff/ctrl-alt-del.jpeg ?	21:40
lcuk	speaking of keyboards - the 810 keyboard is squashy - ive been thinking about using an overlay and using the keyboard as an extension (like color selection ranges for drawing program)	21:40
MangoFusion	;)	21:40
lcuk	yes mango	21:40
lcuk	thats what i was thinking	21:40
KotCzarny	there was a pirate and elite geek versions too	21:41
lcuk	right, i smell food - time to go	21:41
lcuk	back later, and KotCzarny dont get into any more fights :P	21:41
KotCzarny	it would be hard	21:41
lcuk	back later	21:41
KotCzarny	:)	21:41
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AStorm	so, who will package osso-pdf-reader for me?	22:42
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lcuk	AStorm, why cant you build it yourself?	22:53
lcuk	or is this your program which needs actual real packaging	22:53
AStorm	because my virtualbox and vmware hate me	22:53
AStorm	:/	22:53
lcuk	im sure they dont hate you	22:53
AStorm	vmware doesn't want to run	22:53
lcuk	mildy dislike	22:53
lcuk	the specific image or vmware itself	22:54
AStorm	and virtualbox doesn't build :/	22:54
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AStorm	vmware-server	22:54
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qwerty12_N800	astorm: out of curiosity,, what are you trying to build?	22:54
AStorm	osso-pdf-reader	22:54
lcuk	ahhh i just got the player	22:54
AStorm	I'll try it too	22:54
AStorm	gcc b*ches about not being able to assign regs on some asm code	22:55
AStorm	with all v. of gcc I have	22:56
AStorm	and various flags	22:56
AStorm	I'll try w/o any	22:56
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lcuk	whats the asm for?	22:57
AStorm	virtualbox?	22:57
AStorm	I guess for emulation	22:57
AStorm	:P	22:57
lcuk	no, you say gcc complains - it complains when you are compiling what?	22:57
lcuk	the pdf reader?	22:58
AStorm	when building target-i386	22:58
AStorm	no, vvirtualbox!	22:58
AStorm	I can't even run the scrfatchbox	22:58
AStorm	hates my gentoo	22:58
KotCzarny	astorm, give me your linux box host/ip/login and i will install you sb/sdk :)	22:58
qwerty12_N800	Are you trying to get sbox in vbox?	22:58
KotCzarny	and pass too	22:59
lcuk	and cc details	22:59
AStorm	qwerty12_N800: yup	22:59
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AStorm	KotCzarny: ya, and a few rootkits	22:59
AStorm	the Nokia installeer worked	22:59
AStorm	but sbox not	22:59
tbf	hmm.... apt-get cannot install flex for my scratchbox.... known problem, or is my source list incomplete?	22:59
AStorm	missing symbols	22:59
AStorm	:P	22:59
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KotCzarny	hmm	23:00
KotCzarny	you installl sbox first	23:00
AStorm	too new system I guess	23:00
KotCzarny	THEN sdk	23:00
KotCzarny	:)	23:00
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qwerty12_N800	ah! Take up kot's offer :d, sbox in proper linux, not emulated is better imho	23:00
AStorm	... that was sbox instaül script	23:00
KotCzarny	doesn't matter	23:00
KotCzarny	my slackware is up to date too	23:00
* lcuk runs vmware image		23:00
AStorm	worked, but sbox itself not	23:00
KotCzarny	what was the error?	23:00
AStorm	slackware <<< gentoo ~sx86	23:01
KotCzarny	naah	23:01
AStorm	~x86	23:01
infobot	it has been said that x86 is this frankinsteins monster of a system compaired to arm.	23:01
KotCzarny	gcc version 4.2.3	23:01
KotCzarny	quite recent	23:01
AStorm	infobot: so true	23:01
KotCzarny	/lib/libc.so.6 -> libc-2.7.so	23:01
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AStorm	here I have: 3.4, 4.2.3, 4.3.0	23:01
AStorm	same	23:01
KotCzarny	then it's not recentliness	23:02
AStorm	btw, qemu doesn't want to build due to same error	23:02
AStorm	mhm	23:02
KotCzarny	more like gentoo-brokeness	23:02
AStorm	I suspect flags	23:02
AStorm	shouldn't, but...	23:02
AStorm	who knows	23:02
AStorm	now building vbox	23:03
derf	Running out of registers means you should be compiling with either -fomit-frame-pointer, -fno-pic, or both.	23:03
AStorm	I hope it can run .vmdk	23:03
lcuk	so native building in native linux is failing	23:03
derf	-fno-pic probably won't work on Gentoo.	23:03
AStorm	deff: or w/o	23:03
jaska	--omg-optimized	23:03
derf	No, compiling without those things means you will run out of registers even faster.	23:04
AStorm	same fail with pure -O2	23:04
AStorm	:/	23:04
qwerty12_N800	AStorm, why not use vmware?	23:04
AStorm	because it doesn't work?	23:04
derf	Anyway, sbox compiled just fine for me on Gentoo x86.	23:04
AStorm	:/	23:04
AStorm	compiled...	23:04
lcuk	cos using scratchbox in linux in vmware in linux is a bit silly	23:04
AStorm	I tried the binaray	23:04
AStorm	so I'll try the build	23:05
lcuk	vmware = perfect for windows :)	23:05
AStorm	:P	23:05
KotCzarny	astorm: install binary packages then	23:05
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AStorm	bbut then. vbox ought to build	23:05
tbf	ah: http://scratchbox.org/wiki/Apophis-r4	23:05
AStorm	KotCzarny: binaries failed	23:05
AStorm	:P	23:05
KotCzarny	what was the error?	23:05
lcuk	AStorm, you said even vmware fails to run - sounds like major system b0rken	23:06
AStorm	let me write it down	23:06
qwerty12_N800	I installed vmware workstation, i had to use a little program in wine to finish my setup... :p	23:06
KotCzarny	astorm: pastebin.com	23:06
KotCzarny	:)	23:06
tbf	lcuk: well, some feel quite uncomfortable with that chroot hack, which scratchbox is	23:06
AStorm	lcuk: they're missing GCC 4.2.0 symbol	23:06
AStorm	my libstdc++	23:06
AStorm	:P	23:06
AStorm	and some GLIBC_2.7	23:07
lcuk	tbf, i thought chroot wasnt a hack and was normal expected run of the mill thing - like "oh i think i'll go to the toilet, just wait ill chroot myself"	23:07
tbf	lcuk: i always fear to destroy my host system (out of stupidity), when dealing with scratchbox	23:07
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AStorm	as for sbox binary: inconsistencies detected by ld.so	23:08
lcuk	but i thought whatever happens inside the chroot stays inside the chroot. if nothing is symlinked to the outside world then all is good	23:08
AStorm	some assert failed	23:08
AStorm	:P	23:08
KotCzarny	astorm: install slackware.	23:08
KotCzarny	:)	23:08
AStorm	ya, sure	23:08
tbf	lcuk: well, for instance scratchbox shares the /proc file system with the host system	23:08
AStorm	I could	23:08
KotCzarny	hardrrives are cheap as dirt	23:08
AStorm	not lapptop	23:09
qwerty12_N800	or ubuntu/debian :p	23:09
tbf	lcuk: so this chroot jail has giant holes	23:09
lcuk	tbf, didnt know specifics :) thanks for that i will bear it in mind	23:09
AStorm	lol	23:09
KotCzarny	astorm: livecd then?	23:09
* lcuk is a windows user and linux n00b still		23:09
AStorm	KotCzarny: ya, need working nat and wifi	23:09
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AStorm	:P	23:09
KotCzarny	get wrt54g	23:09
KotCzarny	:P	23:09
AStorm	(for the other guy)	23:09
AStorm	no	23:10
KotCzarny	on allegro they are <200pln already	23:10
AStorm	sorry, no, what for?	23:10
KotCzarny	for nat and wifi?	23:10
KotCzarny	:)	23:10
AStorm	but I'll try building that sbox	23:10
lcuk	awful lot of messing all this installing crap - generally if it doesnt work i assumed i screwed up and just restore from stable backup and start again	23:10
AStorm	instead of bins	23:10
AStorm	hehe	23:10
AStorm	I should do that too	23:11
KotCzarny	yup	23:11
AStorm	this ~x86 gentoo needs an update	23:11
KotCzarny	worked for me at the first try	23:11
KotCzarny	so i assume it's system specific differences	23:11
AStorm	it's "too-much-experimentalitis"	23:12
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AStorm	i prob. need newer binutils	23:12
AStorm	:P	23:12
KotCzarny	or older	23:12
KotCzarny	in slackware they moved back to .17 version	23:13
AStorm	nah, 2.18 release now	23:13
KotCzarny	because .18 had ld bugs	23:13
AStorm	hmm?	23:13
AStorm	lol	23:13
AStorm	I guess I hit one	23:13
KotCzarny	:)	23:13
KotCzarny	so now you know why it didn't worked	23:13
AStorm	heheh	23:13
KotCzarny	and why you should use slackware ;)	23:13
keesj	a real gentoo user would go for sbox2 or DIY toolchain	23:13
AStorm	I'll update to 2.18.50.x	23:14
AStorm	mhm	23:14
KotCzarny	nope	23:14
AStorm	I can do cross to arm	23:14
KotCzarny	that was the broken version	23:14
KotCzarny	:>	23:14
AStorm	nah	23:14
AStorm	one is	23:14
AStorm	I know which one	23:14
qwerty12_N800	sbox2 doesn't load for me :p	23:14
AStorm	have that one masked	23:14
KotCzarny	astorm: .17 is still current in slack	23:14
AStorm	I know	23:15
AStorm	I need rebuilds in the system	23:15
lcuk	is slack the build yourself or is that gentoo?	23:15
KotCzarny	lcuk: gentoo	23:15
KotCzarny	slack is package based	23:15
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KotCzarny	you can compile it yourself from sources, but it's slack.	23:15
AStorm	yup	23:16
KotCzarny	you are too lazy to do it.	23:16
KotCzarny	;)	23:16
KotCzarny	i mean, me.	23:16
lcuk	can you self build any on 810?	23:16
AStorm	I'm used to building self	23:16
AStorm	lcuk, no, need coreutils for that	23:16
AStorm	and it conflicts with busybox	23:16
lcuk	couldnt you bootstrap yourself with sb and then jump into it?	23:16
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* lcuk is doin the hand waving thing		23:17
TuxProbe	g'evening	23:17
qwerty12_N800	ello	23:17
AStorm	lcuk, trying!	23:17
AStorm	but sbox isn't cooperating	23:17
lcuk	lol	23:17
lcuk	!	23:17
AStorm	:P	23:17
TuxProbe	anyone with a couple pointers on gtkmm developement?	23:18
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AStorm	I'll,debreak the gentoo	23:18
KotCzarny	binutils-2.18.50.0.4 that was the offending version	23:18
keesj	lcuk: yes you can "debootstrap" a new thingy on a runnig internet tablet	23:18
AStorm	KotCzarny: old now	23:18
KotCzarny	probably	23:18
KotCzarny	time will tell how well they fixed it	23:18
lcuk	cool, i might try reading the scrollback - i might understand it better now	23:18
AStorm	I think I might know	23:18
keesj	TuxProbe: You have seen the whole site dedicated to it?	23:18
AStorm	it's some glibc vs fpmath=sse thing	23:19
TuxProbe	keesj i did :-)	23:19
AStorm	stupid glibc not filtering that out :P	23:19
AStorm	thus any fp code = poof	23:19
keesj	TuxProbe: it looked impressive to me	23:19
lcuk	TuxProbe, theres plenty of help on specific libraries out there - as long as you compile up with the maemo armel version most things you try should work. ymmv though	23:19
AStorm	alternatively, I'll rebuild the whole sys	23:19
KotCzarny	fun	23:20
AStorm	gtkmm is nice	23:20
KotCzarny	:)	23:20
TuxProbe	keesj but i get looads of linking errors from Glib::ustring n some paperhead.h	23:20
AStorm	unlike qt3	23:20
AStorm	TuxProbe: forgot to -lgtkmm?	23:20
AStorm	or -lglib	23:20
keesj	TuxProbe: I know bollux about gtkmm.	23:20
lcuk	TuxProbe, are you making your own gtkmm project or are you compiling someone elses	23:20
TuxProbe	on any other x86 (not from the maemo extras repo) it compiles fine	23:21
AStorm	uhm, or -lglibmm	23:21
AStorm	heh	23:21
TuxProbe	lcuk going for a port of one of my own apps	23:21
TuxProbe	and as far as -lglib, `pkg-config --libs --cflags glibmm-2.4` is all over the place :)	23:21
lcuk	ok, is your scratchbox environment setup and are you set into armel mode and do you have the gtkmmdevelopment libraries installed in scratchbox	23:22
TuxProbe	yea sure, it compiles - though a bunch of linkage errors occurs	23:22
KotCzarny	tried linking by hand?	23:22
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TuxProbe	and so messy, i cant even figure out where _one_ of them origins from in the code hehe	23:22
lcuk	do other things compile and run when you build using scratchbox - ie have you tested	23:23
AStorm	hehe	23:23
TuxProbe	ahum yes	23:24
lcuk	(just covering the bases, we dont know you we dont know your setup and are just getting a level playing field)	23:24
TuxProbe	http://rafb.net/p/FQYBHM78.html	23:25
lcuk	you've got a linkage problem.	23:26
lcuk	:D	23:26
KotCzarny	-lglib ?	23:26
KotCzarny	:>	23:26
KotCzarny	glib2 probably	23:27
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AStorm	yeah, my binutils are broke :P	23:28
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AStorm	samba fails to link i.e.	23:28
KotCzarny	gentoo, pfft	23:28
KotCzarny	:)	23:28
AStorm	but not other things	23:28
AStorm	strange	23:28
KotCzarny	downgrade to .17	23:29
KotCzarny	be safe	23:29
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lcuk	`pkg-config gtkmm-2.4 --cflags --libs`	23:30
tbf	strange, strange, strange: so i rebuild the interesting packages in scratchbox with -fno-omit-frame-pointers....	23:31
* lcuk was digging for howto setup gtkmm makefile		23:31
tbf	...still opreport doesn't show usefull call graphs	23:31
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TuxProbe	lcuk aye, check out a cleaned compile	23:33
TuxProbe	http://rafb.net/p/WSVMfO41.html	23:34
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Swapper	Hi!	23:36
Swapper	Can anyone tell me if x-chat port is active?	23:37
GeneralAntilles	http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=xchat+chinook	23:38
lcuk	TuxProbe, what system do you normally compile this program on - and is the makefile not already configured - looking at your error report there are a lot of other references broken -> glib/gtk/gnome	23:39
lcuk	(at first glance)	23:39
TuxProbe	it works with the glibmm /glade/gtk distributed in gentoo and arch	23:39
lcuk	http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/	23:39
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lcuk	there is a wiki page about porting somewhere on maemo	23:40
lcuk	http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/maemo_4-0_porting_guide.html	23:41
lcuk	luckily it goes over getting a gtk game working :)	23:42
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* lcuk karate chops KotCzarny and blames it on AStorm		23:45
* KotCzarny yawns		23:45
KotCzarny	good thing i'm shielded with my monitor	23:45
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KotCzarny	erm. screen	23:45
lcuk	i dunno, internet violence just isnt the same with fancy LCD shields	23:46
KotCzarny	yup	23:46
KotCzarny	it needs other means to pass through	23:46
KotCzarny	ie. between lines	23:46
lcuk	those robot tuxs could take off	23:47
lcuk	a little penguin army fighting irc battles for us	23:47
KotCzarny	my westell modem doesn't run on tuxes	23:47
KotCzarny	sometimes os differences can be a good thing	23:47
Swapper	GeneralAntilles, thx	23:48
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* AStorm sends a squad of ninjas after lcuk		23:52
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AStorm	now, binutils 2.18.50.0.5	23:53
* lcuk randomizes all your symlinks and moves your pr0n folder		23:53
TuxProbe	just felt like sharing: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=464953 ;-D	23:53
AStorm	harhar, no access rignts	23:53
KotCzarny	old	23:54
KotCzarny	:)	23:54
AStorm	old	23:54
TuxProbe	bootstrapping the good 'ol cow astorm? :)	23:54
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AStorm	I guess maemo isn't secure	23:54
AStorm	:P	23:54
AStorm	ah. right	23:54
KotCzarny	just don't let strangers ssh access	23:54
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KotCzarny	:)	23:54
AStorm	vmsplice isn't done on arm yet?	23:55
lcuk	"but he wasnt a stranger, i knew him from irc"	23:55
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KotCzarny	:>	23:55
KotCzarny	zombie nation	23:55
AStorm	rofl	23:56
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AStorm	all your nokias are belong to us	23:56
Veggen	hmm. wonder what it'd take to convince citrix to compile for arm.	23:56
TuxProbe	disable-vmsplice-if-exploitable.c:133: error: `__NR_vmsplice' undeclared (first use in this function)	23:56
lcuk	it would probably cost you an arm and a leg	23:56
AStorm	Veggen: big $	23:56
TuxProbe	arw hehe	23:56
AStorm	TuxProbe: gbet better headers then	23:57
Veggen	lcuk: probably :P	23:57
AStorm	ah right	23:57
Veggen	lcux: companys home access solution is citrix based.	23:57
lcuk	then i guess you are out of the loop	23:58

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