| *** adoyle_away is now known as adoyle | 00:01 | |
| penguinbait | install becomeroot | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| penguinbait | then sudo gainroot | 00:03 |
| keesj | I am also trying to instal it but I can't click on download from maemo.org | 00:03 |
| *** florian_ has joined #maemo | 00:03 | |
| keesj | found it | 00:04 |
| penguinbait | bora http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb | 00:04 |
| trevarthan | What is a good text editor for xterm? Vim isn't practical from the ui keyboard. | 00:04 |
| penguinbait | works fine for me | 00:05 |
| *** djcb has quit IRC | 00:05 | |
| *** dolske has joined #maemo | 00:06 | |
| keesj | I am going to try to live without a "real" computer at home for a week or something | 00:06 |
| *** bipolar has quit IRC | 00:07 | |
| trevarthan | penguinbait: vim works fine for you? | 00:07 |
| keesj | So today I bought this wonder-keyboard (diNove Edge) , it's bluetooth and it connects to the n800 | 00:07 |
| *** adoyle is now known as adoyle_away | 00:07 | |
| penguinbait | yes | 00:07 |
| trevarthan | How do you press escape? | 00:08 |
| penguinbait | hardware key | 00:08 |
| penguinbait | the hardware escape key | 00:09 |
| trevarthan | Which one? The circle arrow? | 00:09 |
| *** X-Fade_ has joined #maemo | 00:09 | |
| penguinbait | yes | 00:09 |
| penguinbait | circle arrow turning to the left | 00:10 |
| qgil | I'm going to do a microsurvey as well | 00:10 |
| qgil | in planet.maemo.org what would you vote: | 00:11 |
| * bill20r3 had no idea that was escape | 00:11 | |
| qgil | a - hackergotchis off | 00:11 |
| bill20r3 | that's handy. | 00:11 |
| qgil | b - nav bar out for that page only | 00:11 |
| qgil | (in fact what I have forgot to say in the last email is that we are also planning to offer "voluntary flexible width" to registered user, to be configured somewhere in your profile | 00:12 |
| qgil | but this will take longer | 00:12 |
| trevarthan | penguinbait: how do i arrow around in insert mode? The hardware keys print garbage. | 00:12 |
| penguinbait | do you have correct xterm? | 00:13 |
| keesj | the right navigation? | 00:13 |
| *** penguinbait has left #maemo | 00:13 | |
| trevarthan | I don't know. What is the wrong xterm? | 00:14 |
| *** lmnop_ has joined #maemo | 00:14 | |
| qgil | keesj: yes | 00:14 |
| qgil | the right navigation or the hackergotchis, what so you kick off | 00:14 |
| lmnop_ | is there like, a good handwriting recognition program project to tablets? | 00:16 |
| keesj | I would kick the nav. my brains can not handle the top + right navigation | 00:16 |
| lmnop_ | * for tablets | 00:16 |
| qgil | keesj: you mean move it horizontal ben eath the primary navigation | 00:17 |
| qgil | for all pages, not only planet | 00:17 |
| Jaffa | qgil: ta for the insightful email. Which blog of mine uses a fixed width though, I shall purge it from the earth... unless it's the maemopeople.org one and then I don't have any control over it. http://www.bleb.org/ is fully fluid, though; as is the mud-builder page and any other website I've got control over (e.g. http://www.c7services.co.uk/mockup/ ) | 00:17 |
| qgil | hi Jaffa, well, the one you use to post the alternative http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2007/05/11/better_planet_layout_for_firefox_users | 00:19 |
| Jaffa | Tak: fixed ;-) | 00:20 |
| Jaffa | Bah, ta - fixed. | 00:20 |
| *** obi has quit IRC | 00:20 | |
| *** Disconnect has joined #maemo | 00:20 | |
| keesj | I think the navigation I would not be such a problem if the site just rendered ok. | 00:21 |
| *** snorkelyd has left #maemo | 00:21 | |
| qgil | I'm glad we are progressivelly getting to a common understanding of what are the issues, really :) | 00:21 |
| keesj | but once we can search again thing will get better | 00:21 |
| qgil | anyway, jaffa do you have a moment? | 00:22 |
| Jaffa | qgil: sure - it's either this or talking to my wife's parents down stairs ;-) | 00:22 |
| *** Sonej has quit IRC | 00:22 | |
| qgil | to me is either chatting with you or going to bed after 17h in fron of monitor screens | 00:22 |
| qgil | but anyway :) | 00:22 |
| Jaffa | I'd go to bed :) | 00:23 |
| qgil | first thanks to you, keesj and other guys here & there - it's not marketing bla bla I do mean it | 00:23 |
| qgil | now, let's discuss | 00:23 |
| qgil | (i need my glasses, otherwise my eyes fall, wit) | 00:23 |
| keesj | penguinbait is it you site? http://eko.one.pl | 00:24 |
| qgil | right, http://planet.maemo.org | 00:25 |
| Pupnik | it can be helpful to vary the distance of monitor so eyes don't always lock on one distance | 00:25 |
| * Jaffa appreciates, no matter what his views, that others disagree (admittedly mostly designers, I've had the arguments with them at work too) and that they can produce designs which are more usable for the majority in a fixed width style - and I certainly accept from a project management point of view that it's often quicker, and therefore cheaper, to produce a fixed-width site. | 00:25 | |
| qgil | I'm now in epiphany/ubuntu (it still renders difderently with other browsers) | 00:25 |
| qgil | ok ok, let's move forward | 00:25 |
| qgil | fixed width we can get rid of it in some cases but the default is fixxed | 00:26 |
| qgil | i.e. https://bugs.maemo.org/ | 00:26 |
| Jaffa | Fair enough: it's a site for which you have ultimate ownership, so your call. | 00:26 |
| *** X-Fade has quit IRC | 00:26 | |
| *** fab_ has quit IRC | 00:26 | |
| qgil | bugzilla could be also done fixed but it would require to hack some templates and we have now better things to do | 00:27 |
| qgil | besides is something so particular like i.e. garage that doesn't matter really | 00:27 |
| qgil | regular users won't end up in a bug report easily | 00:27 |
| qgil | documentation might also end up flexible if it's needed | 00:27 |
| qgil | (although books are fixed and there are plenty of them) ;) | 00:28 |
| Jaffa | Pierre: pmo - I'd say at a minimum, the bubbles (which I don't like, but that's aesthetic and so personal) need to fill the width of the content area within the design - that means either wrapping around the nav on the right (as in X-Fade's version) or doing something else with the nav entirely (losing it, restructuring it etc.) I think this is widely accepted? | 00:28 |
| Jaffa | qgil: heh :) | 00:28 |
| qgil | the right navogation | 00:28 |
| *** myren__ has joined #maemo | 00:29 | |
| qgil | it's a pain | 00:29 |
| qgil | but first let me finish with the fixed stuff | 00:29 |
| *** fcarvalho has quit IRC | 00:29 | |
| trevarthan | Is there a way to add more engines to the search applet? | 00:29 |
| qgil | the planet is different, many users will end up potentially there, in cases like gnome there is more people in the planet than anywhare else | 00:29 |
| *** pipomolo42 has joined #maemo | 00:30 | |
| keesj | trevarthan: yes. but I don't remeber how | 00:30 |
| qgil | this is why we want to keep if fixed to provide a comon feeling | 00:30 |
| *** pleemans has quit IRC | 00:30 | |
| Jaffa | I'd say restructuring the right hand side nav bar on *just* the planet would be a usability mistake, as a user's mental model gets disrupted and confused: therefore - lose it entirely would be my argument. It's less confusing for something to be not there at all, rather than shifting around/changing style. It's also possible to get to those areas from the "News" page (presuambly, and easily fixed if not). | 00:30 |
| Jaffa | qgil: yep, makes more sense to have a consistent design than some parts fluid, some parts fixed. Absolutely agree there. | 00:30 |
| qgil | right, so we also agree that the solution is either improve the nav bar in the right column or move it horizontal | 00:31 |
| keesj | how does it look on the n800 itself? | 00:31 |
| qgil | the current candidate is leave it in the right column and make text wrap, see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1351 | 00:32 |
| Jaffa | qgil: Personally, I don't like it - it's a messy solution since the top entry still has the same usability problems as the current site. | 00:32 |
| qgil | this is why I think we need to drop hackergotchis, after all :) | 00:33 |
| qgil | or put them in a different way | 00:33 |
| qgil | at the end is ageometric problem | 00:33 |
| Jaffa | Wrapping the blog entry around the hackergotchi (i.e. the gotchi gets floated left within the bubble) would be a solution there. | 00:33 |
| keesj | :p | 00:33 |
| *** lmoura has quit IRC | 00:33 | |
| qgil | yes, could be | 00:34 |
| qgil | keesj: in the n800 would be good if there wouldn't be this white gap between content and navigation, the same as in desktop | 00:34 |
| sp3000 | could be weird with content wrapping if it starts with an img? | 00:34 |
| Jaffa | qgil: hear hear! | 00:35 |
| sp3000 | how about just the title there | 00:35 |
| sp3000 | and content below | 00:35 |
| * sp3000 hasn't even followed the discussion, yay :D | 00:35 | |
| Jaffa | sp3000: yeah, although if the gotchi is wanted, having it the height of the title + date would solve that. | 00:35 |
| * sp3000 isn't sure he approves of requiring login for viewing bugs | 00:35 | |
| qgil | let's not mix things, loging for bugzila has been explained :) | 00:36 |
| keesj | sp3000 has not followed email either :p | 00:36 |
| *** lmnop_ has quit IRC | 00:36 | |
| keesj | sleepytime . greetings! | 00:36 |
| * sp3000 is binary searching a thunderbird trunk crasher with his normal profile so no email right now ;) | 00:36 | |
| qgil | nite! | 00:37 |
| sp3000 | keesj: yeah work dammit :D | 00:37 |
| Jaffa | g'night keesj | 00:37 |
| qgil | ok, so more or less the conclusion would be: | 00:37 |
| sp3000 | gets in the way of email | 00:37 |
| qgil | keep right navigation (optimized, but this is another issue) | 00:37 |
| qgil | keep hackergotchi but embedded in text | 00:37 |
| qgil | would you agree with this? | 00:38 |
| qgil | (detaols about how to embed, if top down right left for later) | 00:38 |
| Jaffa | It would be better. The right hand nav isn't very long, though, so keeping it and reducing the content space seems inefficient to me as a programmer. (Yay for efficiency) | 00:38 |
| *** myren_ has quit IRC | 00:39 | |
| Jaffa | Karoliina's posts can be *very* long, of course ;-) | 00:39 |
| *** fer_ has quit IRC | 00:39 | |
| qgil | Jaffa: that's not a problem, we canm put more stuff in the right column i.e. feeds from itt and so on | 00:40 |
| Jaffa | ah, that's a good idea. | 00:40 |
| qgil | and in any case nothing happens if you leave it em pty, as far as the content is readable and the images fit | 00:40 |
| *** obi has joined #maemo | 00:41 | |
| Jaffa | qgil: true, but presumably the current fixed width was chosen for its best readability, using only 75% of it is an imporvement over 30% of it, but it's still less than the targetted "optimum" | 00:41 |
| qgil | no no, my friend :) | 00:41 |
| qgil | most webs with fixed width to fit in 800px don't let you the 100 for body text, they tend to have a column | 00:42 |
| qgil | it is perfectly readable | 00:42 |
| Jaffa | True | 00:42 |
| qgil | really, wjat is the problem with http://www.ruby-lang.org/ ?? | 00:43 |
| qgil | this site is just delicious, I would like to be a ruby programmer just for that :) | 00:43 |
| qgil | it's a good execution of a paradigm | 00:43 |
| qgil | there are other paradigms with good executions, but we have decided to move maemo.org to this one | 00:43 |
| sp3000 | oh, right, it was, I didn't find the thread for some reaason back when someon mentioned it | 00:43 |
| * sp3000 shrugs | 00:43 | |
| Jaffa | Yeah, but they control the content - and no single post is longer than a few lines. | 00:43 |
| qgil | that's true too | 00:45 |
| qgil | i was looking at http://planetruby.0x42.net/ | 00:46 |
| Jaffa | Yeah, that's alright | 00:46 |
| *** |tbb1 has joined #maemo | 00:46 | |
| qgil | gotcha! http://planet.rubyfr.net/ ;) | 00:46 |
| Jaffa | And your funky drop shadows would make it better | 00:46 |
| Jaffa | See, I think the content there is just a shade too narrow (comparsed with the other URL) | 00:47 |
| qgil | although these ruby guys seem not to post pictures | 00:47 |
| Jaffa | And, interestingly, no YouTube videos or pi... snap :) | 00:47 |
| qgil | let's agree on something else | 00:47 |
| *** |tbb| has quit IRC | 00:47 | |
| qgil | max width of an object without altering layout | 00:48 |
| qgil | I mean without overlapping the bubble | 00:48 |
| Jaffa | How about: any increase in the width of the blog posts, whilst still looking pretty, is a new requirement based on seeing it "in the flesh" | 00:48 |
| *** krau has quit IRC | 00:48 | |
| qgil | "in the flesh"? | 00:48 |
| Jaffa | i.e. "live" | 00:49 |
| Jaffa | Well, my 200px-wide thumbnail already looks cramped on the current layout, I think. | 00:49 |
| qgil | tabñet screenshots and youtube windows are the biggest I think | 00:50 |
| Jaffa | Yeah, an 800-px wide Maemo screenshot always looks too big to me, though. YouTube videos are about 320px wide? | 00:50 |
| qgil | but a tablet screenshot... how do we make this fit when browsing with the tablet? ;) | 00:51 |
| *** mat has quit IRC | 00:52 | |
| qgil | Jaffa: have you changed the layout of your maemopeople blog right now??? | 00:52 |
| Jaffa | Supposedly. It's horrid though - there doesn't seem to be any good styles to choose from. | 00:53 |
| qgil | so, http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2007/02/20/running_debian_proper_alongside_maemo | 00:53 |
| qgil | that image would be problematic in planet maemo I guess | 00:53 |
| qgil | let's see... wait | 00:53 |
| *** florian_ has quit IRC | 00:54 | |
| qgil | i have posted your screenshot debian-maemo Jaffa | 00:56 |
| qgil | haven't checked but I suppose is real size | 00:56 |
| Jaffa | No, it's downscaled to about 75% - it'll still be too wide for current layout, dunno about if you use the hackergotchi space. | 00:57 |
| Jaffa | Anyway, I appreciate your efforts - but I've got to be up early and am shattered; will have to go to bed | 00:57 |
| bill20r3 | woah, real debian | 00:58 |
| qgil | well I think we have progressed here | 00:58 |
| qgil | thanks for th input | 00:58 |
| qgil | wrapping hacjergotchi fits | 01:00 |
| qgil | let's do that then | 01:00 |
| *** polpak has joined #maemo | 01:01 | |
| Jaffa | cool | 01:01 |
| Jaffa | g'night | 01:01 |
| *** sbaturzio has quit IRC | 01:08 | |
| *** vivijim has left #maemo | 01:09 | |
| *** Tak|work has quit IRC | 01:12 | |
| *** trevarthan has quit IRC | 01:14 | |
| *** yerga has quit IRC | 01:15 | |
| *** trevarthan has joined #maemo | 01:16 | |
| trevarthan | Is it possible to create a shortcut for a command, or autorun a command after establishing a wireless link? | 01:19 |
| *** aCiDBaSe has quit IRC | 01:19 | |
| *** Vudentz has quit IRC | 01:24 | |
| Pupnik | trevarthan: maybe in /etc/network/if-up.d | 01:26 |
| *** zumbi has quit IRC | 01:29 | |
| *** polpak has quit IRC | 01:33 | |
| *** cecil has quit IRC | 01:34 | |
| *** cecil has joined #maemo | 01:34 | |
| *** bencer has quit IRC | 01:36 | |
| *** bencer has joined #maemo | 01:38 | |
| *** kaatis_ has joined #maemo | 01:38 | |
| *** ssvb has quit IRC | 01:44 | |
| *** jonty_ has joined #maemo | 01:47 | |
| *** felipec has quit IRC | 01:50 | |
| *** |tbb1 has quit IRC | 01:51 | |
| *** jaebird has quit IRC | 01:54 | |
| *** penguinbait has joined #maemo | 01:54 | |
| *** trevarthan has quit IRC | 01:56 | |
| *** kaatis has quit IRC | 01:57 | |
| *** trevarthan has joined #maemo | 02:04 | |
| trevarthan | Unfortunately, /etc/network/if-up.d/netdate doesn't work when the wifi connection comes up. It works when run manually, though. | 02:06 |
| trevarthan | More ideas? | 02:06 |
| *** jpetersen_ has joined #maemo | 02:07 | |
| *** jonty_someonesto has joined #maemo | 02:09 | |
| *** Pupnik_ has joined #maemo | 02:12 | |
| *** b0unc3_ has joined #maemo | 02:15 | |
| *** jpetersen_ has quit IRC | 02:18 | |
| *** lsobral has quit IRC | 02:19 | |
| *** trevarthan has quit IRC | 02:22 | |
| *** Pupnik has quit IRC | 02:23 | |
| *** jonty_ has quit IRC | 02:24 | |
| *** TimRiker has quit IRC | 02:24 | |
| *** jpetersen has quit IRC | 02:25 | |
| *** qgil has left #maemo | 02:26 | |
| *** dieguito has joined #maemo | 02:30 | |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 02:32 | |
| *** sabotage is now known as sabotage_afk | 02:55 | |
| *** k-s[WORK] has quit IRC | 02:56 | |
| *** pipomolo42 has quit IRC | 02:56 | |
| *** pipomolo42 has joined #maemo | 02:56 | |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 03:03 | |
| *** megabyte405 has quit IRC | 03:08 | |
| *** |tbb| has joined #maemo | 03:08 | |
| *** trevartha1 has joined #maemo | 03:14 | |
| *** jacques has quit IRC | 03:19 | |
| trevartha1 | Pupnik: have you ever used /etc/network/if-up.d before? | 03:19 |
| *** jonty_someonesto has quit IRC | 03:22 | |
| *** KevinVerma has quit IRC | 03:23 | |
| *** behdad has quit IRC | 03:23 | |
| *** trevartha1 has quit IRC | 03:28 | |
| *** myren__ is now known as myren_ | 03:29 | |
| *** Alowishus has left #maemo | 03:33 | |
| *** Yamazaki-kun has joined #maemo | 03:45 | |
| *** lexiyntax has joined #maemo | 03:54 | |
| *** pipomolo42 has quit IRC | 03:55 | |
| *** sp3000 has quit IRC | 04:10 | |
| *** Yamazaki-kun_ has joined #maemo | 04:16 | |
| *** Pio has quit IRC | 04:21 | |
| *** b0unc3_ is now known as b0unc3 | 04:21 | |
| *** Yamazaki-kun_ has quit IRC | 04:22 | |
| *** Yamazaki-kun has quit IRC | 04:34 | |
| *** Andy80 has quit IRC | 04:50 | |
| *** spect has quit IRC | 05:12 | |
| *** pipomolo42 has joined #maemo | 05:13 | |
| *** jacques_ has joined #maemo | 05:19 | |
| *** k-s has joined #maemo | 05:21 | |
| *** jacques_ is now known as jacques | 05:21 | |
| *** pipomolo42 has quit IRC | 05:23 | |
| *** _k-s_ has joined #maemo | 05:37 | |
| *** penguinbait has quit IRC | 05:51 | |
| *** k-s has quit IRC | 05:59 | |
| *** Sonej has joined #maemo | 06:06 | |
| *** polpak has joined #maemo | 06:24 | |
| *** zwnj has quit IRC | 06:51 | |
| *** lexiyntax has quit IRC | 07:00 | |
| *** jaebird has joined #maemo | 07:00 | |
| *** dolske has quit IRC | 07:24 | |
| *** _k-s_ has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
| *** rkaway1 has quit IRC | 07:26 | |
| *** rkaway1 has joined #maemo | 07:29 | |
| *** Sandman_ has joined #maemo | 07:38 | |
| Sandman_ | So what's all this talk about debian-arm on the n800? | 07:39 |
| *** slomo has joined #maemo | 07:50 | |
| *** dolske_ has joined #maemo | 08:04 | |
| *** Disconnect has quit IRC | 08:25 | |
| *** booiiing has quit IRC | 08:27 | |
| *** booiiing has joined #maemo | 08:28 | |
| *** jacques has quit IRC | 08:34 | |
| *** booiiing has quit IRC | 09:08 | |
| *** RpJ has quit IRC | 09:16 | |
| *** dieguito has quit IRC | 09:25 | |
| *** booiiing has joined #maemo | 09:25 | |
| *** jacques has joined #maemo | 09:35 | |
| *** febb has joined #maemo | 09:40 | |
| *** polpak has quit IRC | 09:41 | |
| *** HBO2 has quit IRC | 09:42 | |
| *** Sandman_ has quit IRC | 09:46 | |
| *** sabotage_afk has quit IRC | 10:01 | |
| *** sabotage_afk has joined #maemo | 10:01 | |
| *** kosola has joined #maemo | 10:01 | |
| *** vidarino has quit IRC | 10:13 | |
| *** febb has quit IRC | 10:30 | |
| *** Chelli has joined #maemo | 10:33 | |
| *** zwnj has joined #maemo | 10:36 | |
| *** pvanhoof has joined #maemo | 10:38 | |
| *** Chelli has joined #maemo | 10:42 | |
| *** desrt has quit IRC | 10:43 | |
| *** Chelli has quit IRC | 10:43 | |
| *** phil|work is now known as phil|sleep | 10:44 | |
| *** |tbb| has quit IRC | 10:45 | |
| *** desrt has joined #maemo | 10:46 | |
| *** jku__ has joined #maemo | 11:09 | |
| *** AD-N770 has joined #maemo | 11:13 | |
| *** zwnj has quit IRC | 11:15 | |
| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:16 |
| *** zwnj has joined #maemo | 11:16 | |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:19 |
| *** jku_ has quit IRC | 11:26 | |
| keesj | I know it is over the top. but http://box.mmapps.net/~keesj/Photo-0197.jpg I am so happy with this setup | 11:28 |
| keesj | Finnaly a good gadget that is not working 100% yet | 11:28 |
| *** sbaturzio has joined #maemo | 11:41 | |
| Pupnik_ | Package must have "Section: user/FOO" to be considered compatible. | 11:47 |
| Pupnik_ | ? | 11:47 |
| zakx | Pupnik_: that means, that packages without user/ prefix won't get installed by the package manager in blue pill mode | 11:48 |
| Pupnik_ | thanks zakx - i'm trying to find where to add that to the debian/ dir before i build package | 11:50 |
| Pupnik_ | ahh "section" tag in fceu is Section: user/other | 11:51 |
| Pupnik_ | control:Section: user/other | 11:53 |
| *** shackan has quit IRC | 11:57 | |
| *** |tbb| has joined #maemo | 12:06 | |
| *** |tbb| has joined #maemo | 12:06 | |
| *** vidar has joined #maemo | 12:27 | |
| *** richieeee72 has joined #maemo | 12:31 | |
| *** |tbb| has quit IRC | 12:38 | |
| *** Streg has joined #maemo | 12:53 | |
| Pupnik_ | update: libraries installing without error when debian/control line Section: is changed from "libs" to "user/libs" | 12:56 |
| *** Pupnik_ is now known as Pupnik | 12:56 | |
| *** uebli has joined #maemo | 13:03 | |
| keesj | Pupnik: did you read the packaging section on the website? | 13:04 |
| keesj | there are also hints about adding icons. | 13:04 |
| keesj | icons for use in the package manager that is | 13:05 |
| Pupnik | not in the start menu? | 13:05 |
| Pupnik | any good urls you have are welcome | 13:05 |
| keesj | the start menu is a diffent thing . but that is also documented , (how to popup a script to choose the menu location for the file | 13:06 |
| *** bilboed has joined #maemo | 13:07 | |
| keesj | Pupnik: maemo.org -> development -> Documentation -> Hot-tos :) -> maemo 3.x -> making a package for the application manager | 13:09 |
| Pupnik | heh ok ty | 13:09 |
| keesj | and nice also is porting existing applications | 13:09 |
| *** uebli has quit IRC | 13:09 | |
| keesj | that one is located under the 2.x howtos | 13:10 |
| Pupnik | yeah i won't do the single click install | 13:10 |
| keesj | so youi first need to package , setup a repo or upload to an existing | 13:11 |
| *** mubelacker_ has joined #maemo | 13:12 | |
| Pupnik | for some reason my logins to maemo.org are broken. other people can log in with my account info | 13:12 |
| Pupnik | it's pretty crazy (using iceweasel, konqueror) | 13:13 |
| keesj | perhaps it's a ssl issue and they all use the same ssl lib? | 13:13 |
| Pupnik | that's a good idea | 13:13 |
| Pupnik | why do i need a repo? can't i just host .debs ? | 13:13 |
| keesj | the install file format support adding repositories not .deb files. | 13:14 |
| Pupnik | ah for one click installs | 13:14 |
| keesj | I think that the idea is that you can then update your repo and people will automaticaly download new versions | 13:15 |
| zakx | the OS is capale of installig .debs you get from the browser | 13:15 |
| zakx | it's jusst crappy if your package has dependencies | 13:16 |
| keesj | yes . it is very crappy , the way it currently works. but it's like that | 13:17 |
| keesj | also I think that installing multiple repos did not work for some reason. | 13:17 |
| Pupnik | ? i have multiple repositories in sources.list and they work | 13:18 |
| keesj | multiple repos in one go that is , | 13:18 |
| Pupnik | oh | 13:18 |
| keesj | so have a .install with the ogg repo + sdk 3.0 + your own is not wokring | 13:18 |
| keesj | and even if it wold work , I think it sill would suck. because you can not specify where to download the other debs from | 13:20 |
| *** mubelacker_ has left #maemo | 13:20 | |
| keesj | I guess that the only kind of nice solution is to upload the binary to the maemo repositories | 13:21 |
| kulve | I think the trunk version of app.mgr. supports multiple repos in .install, but not the IT2007 version | 13:21 |
| keesj | I don't know how the disc ended there was quite a large thread on the mailing list about that. | 13:22 |
| kulve | I think I missed that. So I'm not sure about what I'm saying. As usual :) | 13:26 |
| Pupnik | login to garage.maemo.org works, but none of the other maemo sites - maybe they are using different ssl versions | 13:32 |
| kulve | for me the login to maemo.org has worked since yesterday. Before that I could login only to garage | 13:33 |
| Pupnik | bugzilla.maemo.org is a strange link | 13:36 |
| Pupnik | "you have attempted to establish a connection with "bugs.maemo.org". however the security certificate presented belongs to "maemo.org" | 13:36 |
| s-ndh-c | hehe | 13:38 |
| Pupnik | my browser (iceweasel) has "Use SSL 3.0" and "Use TLS 1.0" checked | 13:41 |
| *** sxpert has quit IRC | 13:49 | |
| *** spect has joined #maemo | 13:51 | |
| *** AD-N770 has quit IRC | 13:52 | |
| *** zwnj has quit IRC | 13:56 | |
| *** obi__ has joined #maemo | 14:05 | |
| *** sxpert has joined #maemo | 14:11 | |
| *** Sandman_ has joined #maemo | 14:13 | |
| *** pleemans has joined #maemo | 14:15 | |
| *** obi has quit IRC | 14:18 | |
| *** max has joined #maemo | 14:19 | |
| *** max has joined #maemo | 14:20 | |
| max | hi guys | 14:23 |
| keesj | hello | 14:24 |
| max | does anyone of you know why running fakeroot apt-get install packet in the mistral scratchbox get an error like this: dpkg: requested operation requires superuser priviledge E:Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returns error code (2) | 14:25 |
| Pupnik | what package? | 14:26 |
| max | sqlite3 | 14:27 |
| max | i need it to recompile the maemo-mapper1.4.4 | 14:27 |
| Pupnik | "fakeroot apt-get install sqlite" works here (gregale / 2.2) | 14:28 |
| max | thats right but i need the sqlite3 version | 14:28 |
| Pupnik | apt-cache search only shows one sqlite | 14:28 |
| keesj | pff mistral.. that is ancient :P | 14:30 |
| max | mine shows 2 versions ... the sqlite and the sqlite3 | 14:30 |
| keesj | max older maemo-mappers used the previous sqllite version, the current maemo-mapper used sqlite3 | 14:31 |
| keesj | uses | 14:31 |
| max | thats right, but on the nokia 770 device sqlite3 works also, iths the only way to get tehere the actual maemo mapper running | 14:32 |
| Pupnik | maybe the sqlite3 package has an error | 14:32 |
| max | but it works on nokia ... | 14:33 |
| *** Guardian has joined #maemo | 14:33 | |
| max | i tried another way ..i take the sources from sqlite.org | 14:33 |
| max | and compile them in the scratchbox | 14:33 |
| max | the i can try for example sqlite3 | 14:33 |
| max | and it works but the problem is wehn i try to recompile the mapper it gets an error | 14:34 |
| keesj | max mud also has a sqlite3 package | 14:34 |
| max | with the the following command: pk-config sqlite3 --libs | 14:34 |
| keesj | what kind of error? | 14:34 |
| max | libary requirements (sqlite3) not met; | 14:35 |
| *** Guard][an has quit IRC | 14:42 | |
| *** max_ has joined #maemo | 14:43 | |
| *** pwille has joined #maemo | 14:43 | |
| max_ | checking for sqlite3... Package sqlite3 was not found in the pkg-config search path. | 14:43 |
| max_ | Perhaps you should add the directory containing `sqlite3.pc' | 14:43 |
| max_ | to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable | 14:43 |
| max_ | No package 'sqlite3' found | 14:43 |
| max_ | configure: error: Library requirements (sqlite3) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them. | 14:44 |
| max | here is the message in detail ... | 14:44 |
| *** jpetersen has joined #maemo | 14:44 | |
| *** pwille has left #maemo | 14:44 | |
| max | any ideas ? | 14:45 |
| Pupnik | i don't know what's wrong. i'd try dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -d | 14:46 |
| keesj | I guess you did not install the sqlite-dev package | 14:47 |
| keesj | sqlite3-dev that is | 14:47 |
| *** slomo has quit IRC | 14:48 | |
| *** slomo has joined #maemo | 14:48 | |
| keesj | max?? | 14:49 |
| max | im here .. | 14:49 |
| keesj | you need to install the dev packages | 14:50 |
| max | i try the dev package ..one moment | 14:50 |
| max_ | there is no sqlite3-dev | 14:52 |
| max_ | and when i try to install the libsqlite3-dev i get a dependency error | 14:52 |
| max_ | in other words i must reset my scratchbox and try again ...one monent guys | 14:53 |
| max_ | exit | 14:53 |
| max_ | .q | 14:53 |
| *** max_ has quit IRC | 14:53 | |
| max | i get the same error like before | 15:00 |
| max | dpkg: requested operation requires superuser priviledge E:Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returns error code (2) | 15:00 |
| keesj | you are insode sbox right? | 15:02 |
| *** max_unix has joined #maemo | 15:02 | |
| max_unix | i think so | 15:02 |
| keesj | did you type /scrtachbox/login or similar? | 15:03 |
| max_unix | i try vmware for the tests, and i set up the scratchbox exactly like it is toled in the maemo tutorial | 15:03 |
| keesj | to login | 15:03 |
| max_unix | sbin/sbox_ctl start | 15:03 |
| max_unix | then ./login | 15:03 |
| max_unix | and then fakeroot apt-get install libsqlite3-dev | 15:04 |
| keesj | and what does the propmt look like" XXX_ARME>" ? | 15:05 |
| *** keesj is now known as k-way | 15:06 | |
| max_unix | [sbox-arm: ~] | 15:07 |
| max_unix | i build a target called arm like it is shown in the manual | 15:07 |
| max_unix | sbox config -ct name, then -st -er , cc, cf | 15:07 |
| max_unix | anyone get some ideas left ? | 15:12 |
| Pupnik | are other packages also causing problems? | 15:15 |
| max_unix | some apt-get install packages get the same problems, but normally it works | 15:15 |
| Pupnik | you should never get that problem | 15:16 |
| Pupnik | what happens if you dpkg -i sqlite3*.deb? | 15:16 |
| Pupnik | first download, then dpkg install the sqlite deb file directly | 15:17 |
| max_unix | [sbox-arm: ~] > dpkg -i sqlite3_3.3.8-1_armel.deb | 15:18 |
| max_unix | dpkg: requested operation requires superuser privilege | 15:18 |
| max_unix | [sbox-arm: ~] > fakeroot dpkg -i sqlite3_3.3.8-1_armel.deb | 15:18 |
| max_unix | Selecting previously deselected package sqlite3. | 15:18 |
| max_unix | (Reading database ... 25314 files and directories currently installed.) | 15:18 |
| max_unix | Unpacking sqlite3 (from sqlite3_3.3.8-1_armel.deb) ... | 15:18 |
| max_unix | rm: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 15:18 |
| max_unix | dpkg: error while cleaning up: | 15:18 |
| max_unix | subprocess rm cleanup returned error exit status 127 | 15:18 |
| max_unix | dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of sqlite3: | 15:18 |
| max_unix | sqlite3 depends on libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.3.8); however: | 15:18 |
| max_unix | Package libsqlite3-0 is not installed. | 15:18 |
| max_unix | dpkg: error processing sqlite3 (--install): | 15:18 |
| max_unix | dependency problems - leaving unconfigured | 15:18 |
| max_unix | Errors were encountered while processing: | 15:18 |
| max_unix | sqlite3 | 15:18 |
| max_unix | [sbox-arm: ~] > | 15:18 |
| max_unix | [sbox-arm: ~] > fakeroot dpkg -i libsqlite3-0_3.3.8-1_armel.deb | 15:18 |
| max_unix | rm: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 15:18 |
| max_unix | dpkg: error processing libsqlite3-0_3.3.8-1_armel.deb (--install): | 15:18 |
| max_unix | subprocess rm cleanup returned error exit status 127 | 15:18 |
| max_unix | Errors were encountered while processing: | 15:18 |
| max_unix | libsqlite3-0_3.3.8-1_armel.deb | 15:18 |
| Pupnik | don't flood the channel, you see the problem right at the top | 15:18 |
| max_unix | i think the problem consists of the libfakeroot-tcp error | 15:19 |
| max_unix | you get an idea to solfe the problem ? | 15:20 |
| Pupnik | do you see the file with ls -l /usr/lib/libfakeroot/? | 15:21 |
| Pupnik | 50581 Apr 12 09:32 /usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0.0.1 | 15:21 |
| max_unix | ls -l /usr/lib/libfakeroot/? | 15:21 |
| max_unix | ls -l /usr/lib/libfakeroot/ | 15:21 |
| max_unix | fuck | 15:22 |
| *** pleemans has quit IRC | 15:22 | |
| max_unix | yes its there | 15:22 |
| Pupnik | in your situation, i would set up scratchbox with maemo/ITOS2006 2.2 (gregale) | 15:23 |
| Pupnik | not many people doing anything with mistral now | 15:23 |
| Pupnik | so it's harder to see what is different with your environment | 15:23 |
| max_unix | but when i compile with gregale are the binarys compatible with the mistral environment on the device ? | 15:24 |
| Pupnik | i don't know | 15:25 |
| max_unix | nice :-) | 15:26 |
| Pupnik | why not upgrade to latest it2006 on the 770 | 15:26 |
| max_unix | i've done this already | 15:26 |
| Pupnik | then your apps will run | 15:26 |
| max_unix | but this is a mistral release ? | 15:26 |
| Guardian | hello #maemo | 15:26 |
| max_unix | 2006.49-2 is the latest | 15:27 |
| Pupnik | sorry i may have been confused... anyway the gregale stuff i compiled ran on latest it2006 | 15:27 |
| max_unix | thas fine ... to update on gregale i musst use another rootsrap (the 2.2 version) or do i need the aktual scratchbox version ? | 15:28 |
| max_unix | +t | 15:28 |
| Pupnik | just rootstrap | 15:29 |
| max_unix | thank you, you help me alot .. | 15:29 |
| max_unix | i try to set up the scratchbox .. then i come back .. | 15:30 |
| *** mathias` has joined #maemo | 15:30 | |
| *** guerby has quit IRC | 15:32 | |
| *** mathias` has quit IRC | 15:33 | |
| *** mathias` has joined #maemo | 15:33 | |
| *** mathias` has quit IRC | 15:36 | |
| *** pleemans has joined #maemo | 15:37 | |
| *** luizirber has joined #maemo | 15:37 | |
| *** snorkelyd has joined #maemo | 15:44 | |
| *** guerby has joined #maemo | 15:54 | |
| *** pipomolo42 has joined #maemo | 16:01 | |
| *** adoyle_away is now known as adoyle | 16:08 | |
| *** koen has quit IRC | 16:12 | |
| *** koen has joined #maemo | 16:13 | |
| *** ssvb has joined #maemo | 16:16 | |
| *** mycroes has quit IRC | 16:20 | |
| *** pipomolo42 has quit IRC | 16:21 | |
| *** max_unix has quit IRC | 16:33 | |
| *** k-way is now known as keesj | 16:34 | |
| *** max_unix has joined #maemo | 16:36 | |
| keesj | max_unix: you have such weir problems, the sdk installl must have failed. | 16:37 |
| *** ][eBerg has joined #maemo | 16:37 | |
| keesj | disk full? | 16:38 |
| max | no | 16:38 |
| ][eBerg | I am unable to restore from backups, the 770 refuses to read them, and there are installed apps that no longer show up in the app manager, is there a way to do a total factory restore? | 16:38 |
| max | i set up i new snapshot in the vmware to test with rootsrap 2.2 | 16:39 |
| max | in 5 minutes we know if it is working there | 16:39 |
| max | back to the sdk install .. is there anything withs is not in the maemo scratchbox manual ? | 16:40 |
| *** jacques has quit IRC | 16:41 | |
| Pupnik | ][eBerg: reflash the 770, or fix it :) | 16:42 |
| Pupnik | max, dunno - been a long time since i installed sb | 16:42 |
| ][eBerg | will flashing the firware erase everyting? | 16:43 |
| keesj | with 2.1 I installed using the installer. I think the result was a full working system , id don't really remember | 16:43 |
| Pupnik | yes | 16:44 |
| ][eBerg | ok, Im on the nokia site now | 16:44 |
| max_unix | using the installer .. really ? | 16:44 |
| max_unix | i tried this for 2.0 severall times and it never worked | 16:44 |
| Pupnik | ? i installed scratchbox with apt-get (debian sid) | 16:45 |
| Pupnik | btw sidux kernels do not work with scratchbox | 16:45 |
| max_unix | W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems | 16:49 |
| max_unix | E: Sub-process /scratchbox/devkits/debian/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2) | 16:49 |
| max_unix | [sbox-arm2: ~] > | 16:49 |
| max_unix | same problem with rootstrap 2.2 thean with RS 2.0 | 16:50 |
| Pupnik | do you get errors when logging in with /scratchbox/login ? | 16:54 |
| max_unix | no | 16:54 |
| Pupnik | ok so you're now in 2.2 | 16:54 |
| max_unix | thats right | 16:54 |
| Pupnik | when i'm in 2.2 i see no sqlite3 - only sqlite | 16:54 |
| Pupnik | what repository did you add to get sqlite3? | 16:55 |
| *** Tahitibob has joined #maemo | 16:55 | |
| max_unix | deb http://scratchbox.org/crocodile/ crocodile main | 16:55 |
| max_unix | deb-src http://scratchbox.org/crocodile/ crocodile main | 16:55 |
| max_unix | #maemo:essential | 16:55 |
| max_unix | deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/ gregale user | 16:55 |
| max_unix | deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/non-certified/ gregale user | 16:55 |
| max_unix | #maemo:name maemo-hackers | 16:55 |
| max_unix | deb http://maemo-hackers.org/apt gregale main | 16:55 |
| max_unix | #maemo:name MUlliNER.ORG Maemo Software (Maemo 2.x) | 16:55 |
| max_unix | deb http://www.mulliner.org/nokia770/repository/ maemo2 free | 16:55 |
| max_unix | #maemo:name mistral-extras | 16:55 |
| max_unix | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras gregale free non-free | 16:55 |
| max_unix | #maemo:name repository.maemo.org | 16:55 |
| max_unix | deb http://repository.maemo.org/ gregale free non-free | 16:55 |
| max_unix | i added this ones | 16:55 |
| max_unix | but i just replace the mistral name with gregale to get sources | 16:56 |
| max_unix | i thing the sqlite3 is in the http://repository.maemo.org/extras gregal or in the http://repository.maemo.org/ gregal | 16:57 |
| *** pleemans has quit IRC | 16:58 | |
| max_unix | [sbox-arm2: ~] > fakeroot dpkg -i libsqlite3-0_3.3.8-1_armel.deb | 17:03 |
| max_unix | dpkg: `start-stop-daemon' not found on PATH. | 17:03 |
| max_unix | dpkg: `install-info' not found on PATH. | 17:03 |
| max_unix | dpkg: 2 expected program(s) not found on PATH. | 17:03 |
| max_unix | NB: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin. | 17:03 |
| *** shackan has joined #maemo | 17:07 | |
| *** hendryx has joined #maemo | 17:13 | |
| *** bvsciguy has joined #maemo | 17:19 | |
| Pupnik | ahh crocodile | 17:27 |
| Pupnik | wtf is that | 17:27 |
| Pupnik | i don't think you want scratchbox.org in your scratchbox environment sources | 17:28 |
| max_unix | the entry was already there | 17:28 |
| Pupnik | hrm maybe | 17:28 |
| Pupnik | here i just have deb http://scratchbox.org/debian/ ./ | 17:29 |
| max_unix | if you add the maemo repository and install sqlite3 what happen ? | 17:30 |
| *** ssvb has quit IRC | 17:30 | |
| *** max_unix has quit IRC | 17:34 | |
| max | im stil here .. just restarting the other client | 17:35 |
| Pupnik | ok | 17:39 |
| Pupnik | which repo has sqlite3? | 17:39 |
| Pupnik | ooh i see | 17:40 |
| keesj | max are you interessted in the result (having a maemo-mapper) or to get it wokring? | 17:41 |
| Pupnik | ok added extyras - updating | 17:41 |
| Pupnik | i get no errors installing sqlite3 | 17:42 |
| max | i need to get it recompiled and then i must add functionalitys | 17:42 |
| Pupnik | Setting up sqlite3 (3.3.5-0.2osso1) | 17:42 |
| max | hmm thats funny | 17:42 |
| max | what deb packages have you installed ? | 17:42 |
| Pupnik | sqlite3_3.3.5-0.2osso1_armel.deb | 17:42 |
| max | and for the scratchbox ? | 17:42 |
| Pupnik | scratchbox-core: Installed: 1.0.7 | 17:43 |
| max | http://scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/apophis/deb/ | 17:43 |
| Pupnik | scratchbox-devkit-debian: Installed: 1.0.7.1 | 17:43 |
| Pupnik | scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm: Installed: 1.0.5 | 17:44 |
| Pupnik | scratchbox-libs: Installed: 1.0.7 | 17:44 |
| max | i try to download and install them, maybe it helps | 17:45 |
| Pupnik | scratchbox-devkit-cputransp: Installed: 1.0.2 | 17:46 |
| *** Disconnect has joined #maemo | 17:47 | |
| Pupnik | sb-conf ls -d | 17:47 |
| Pupnik | debian-sarge | 17:47 |
| Pupnik | debian | 17:47 |
| Pupnik | cputrans | 17:47 |
| Pupnik | sorry that was wrong | 17:48 |
| Pupnik | sb-conf sh -d | 17:48 |
| Pupnik | debian cputransp | 17:48 |
| Pupnik | no debian-sarge in current target | 17:48 |
| max | ok | 17:48 |
| Pupnik | i have no idea what is wrong but if you want info about my configuration, just ask | 17:51 |
| max | and rootstrap version 2.2 ? | 17:51 |
| Pupnik | y | 17:51 |
| Pupnik | Maemo_Dev_Platform_v2.2_armel-rootstrap.tgz | 17:52 |
| max | i will try it, but tomorrow ..i worked since 10 ... and today is weekend so i'll get a break | 17:52 |
| max | thank you for your help | 17:52 |
| Pupnik | you're welcome :) enjoy weekend | 17:52 |
| max | we will meet again maybe ;-) | 17:52 |
| max | ok ..bye | 17:53 |
| *** max has quit IRC | 17:53 | |
| *** hendryx has quit IRC | 17:54 | |
| *** tank17 has quit IRC | 17:55 | |
| *** krau has joined #maemo | 17:56 | |
| *** tank17 has joined #maemo | 17:57 | |
| *** hendryx has joined #maemo | 18:13 | |
| *** phil|sleep is now known as philipl | 18:14 | |
| *** bvsciguy has left #maemo | 18:23 | |
| *** drega has joined #maemo | 18:25 | |
| *** yerga has joined #maemo | 18:26 | |
| *** drega has quit IRC | 18:26 | |
| *** philipl has quit IRC | 18:45 | |
| *** philipl has joined #maemo | 18:47 | |
| *** sbaturzio has quit IRC | 18:56 | |
| *** fab_ has joined #maemo | 19:05 | |
| *** ][eBerg has quit IRC | 19:06 | |
| *** bipolar has joined #maemo | 19:10 | |
| *** spect_ has joined #maemo | 19:14 | |
| *** spect has quit IRC | 19:14 | |
| *** Tahitibob has left #maemo | 19:23 | |
| *** Tahitibob has joined #maemo | 19:23 | |
| *** mat has joined #maemo | 19:32 | |
| *** unique311 has joined #maemo | 19:58 | |
| *** fer has joined #maemo | 20:10 | |
| *** spect has joined #maemo | 20:12 | |
| unique311 | http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/104047/3D_Printer_The_450.html < 3D printer | 20:15 |
| *** spect_ has quit IRC | 20:22 | |
| *** hendryx has quit IRC | 20:26 | |
| *** hendryx has joined #maemo | 20:27 | |
| *** unique311 has quit IRC | 20:31 | |
| *** unique311 has joined #maemo | 20:31 | |
| *** philipl has quit IRC | 20:33 | |
| *** bipolar has quit IRC | 20:38 | |
| *** febb has joined #maemo | 20:49 | |
| *** behdad has joined #maemo | 20:51 | |
| *** unique311_ has joined #maemo | 20:56 | |
| *** Rp1 has joined #maemo | 20:58 | |
| *** koen has quit IRC | 21:02 | |
| *** koen has joined #maemo | 21:03 | |
| *** unique311_ has quit IRC | 21:05 | |
| *** febb has quit IRC | 21:08 | |
| *** yerga has quit IRC | 21:31 | |
| *** unique311 has quit IRC | 21:48 | |
| *** mmr has joined #maemo | 21:54 | |
| mmr | hi | 21:54 |
| *** mmr has left #maemo | 21:55 | |
| *** fer has quit IRC | 21:59 | |
| *** unique311 has joined #maemo | 22:07 | |
| Sandman_ | So why won't anyone just run debian-arm on the Nokia N800? | 22:07 |
| unique311 | tableteer.nokia.com/ is it down? | 22:07 |
| gla55 | sandman: why would someone? | 22:08 |
| koen | debian/arm is just so optimised for touchscreen usage | 22:10 |
| koen | </sarcasm> | 22:10 |
| gla55 | yeah | 22:11 |
| gla55 | maybe if you used the n800 as some server for some strange reason | 22:11 |
| *** bhima has joined #maemo | 22:19 | |
| bhima | Hrm. Carman seems to have channel 1 hardcodded in for bluetooth. | 22:22 |
| * bhima wants to figure out what is wrong with his car. | 22:22 | |
| *** dospod has joined #maemo | 22:24 | |
| *** mubelacker has joined #maemo | 22:24 | |
| *** mubelacker has quit IRC | 22:28 | |
| *** sp3000 has joined #maemo | 22:31 | |
| *** behdad has quit IRC | 22:32 | |
| *** muebelacker has joined #maemo | 22:34 | |
| *** dospod has quit IRC | 22:35 | |
| *** muebelacker has left #maemo | 22:35 | |
| *** mubelacker has joined #maemo | 22:37 | |
| *** mubelacker has quit IRC | 22:39 | |
| nostalg1c | is there a way to keep the n770 from fading out / blacking out when in fullscreen mode? | 22:40 |
| keesj | no easy way, many app specific hacks | 22:50 |
| nostalg1c | for the browser would be a good start :) | 22:51 |
| nostalg1c | btw, for the n770, am i locked to opera8 or are there upgrades? | 22:51 |
| keesj | I dont know, I dont even know what version the n800 ships | 22:54 |
| *** KevinVerma has joined #Maemo | 22:56 | |
| robtaylor | MDK: so whats happening with Graff? you know there's a whole load of canvas talk going on gtk-devel-list atm? | 22:56 |
| *** Tahitibob has quit IRC | 23:00 | |
| *** KevinVerma has quit IRC | 23:04 | |
| *** abock_ has quit IRC | 23:05 | |
| *** koen has quit IRC | 23:07 | |
| *** unique311_ has joined #maemo | 23:11 | |
| *** unique311 has quit IRC | 23:11 | |
| MDK | robtaylor: yes, I know, I'm following that | 23:14 |
| MDK | robtaylor: I'm working now on graff-effects, which is an abstracted effects processing pipeline | 23:15 |
| MDK | robtaylor: where you can create complex effect chains, which are later run using software/hardware | 23:16 |
| MDK | robtaylor: I'm planning to post some of my findings to the list soon | 23:18 |
| robtaylor | MDK: cool! is the code up anywhere yet? | 23:18 |
| MDK | robtaylor: IMHO, the canvas should be as simple as possible | 23:18 |
| keesj | graf in dutch is the place where you get burried | 23:18 |
| keesj | itś grave | 23:19 |
| MDK | robtaylor: in principle, the canvas doesn't do much by itself, it should just abstract the basic stacking/layouting model | 23:19 |
| MDK | the big question is, what you build on the top of it... | 23:19 |
| sp3000 | this is where pixels get buried then? :P | 23:20 |
| keesj | itś the underground grave . it looks pretty from the outside and you dont want to look inside | 23:20 |
| robtaylor | MDK: sounds like a sensible model to me | 23:21 |
| keesj | what and how, I have looked a bit at it, | 23:22 |
| keesj | my feeling is that how is also imporent, just look at flash for example. it does the scaling/sound/media stuff | 23:22 |
| keesj | it only gets cool if you can do media with it | 23:23 |
| keesj | with | 23:23 |
| MDK | keesj: that's true, if you make too much assumptions on the lowest level, you're going to get stuck with them on the higher layers | 23:24 |
| *** koen has joined #maemo | 23:24 | |
| keesj | MDK: perhaps a metisse/mezzo clone? | 23:24 |
| MDK | robtaylor: I plan to open my stuff before guadec, so that I can have some proof-of-concept we can maybe discuss | 23:24 |
| robtaylor | MDK: cool :) | 23:25 |
| MDK | keesj: well, I'm not really interested in window/desktop management, but the application toolkit/drawing model itself | 23:25 |
| robtaylor | yeah, i'd really like a canvas that can be efficient.. | 23:25 |
| MDK | robtaylor: my primary finding is, perhaps not too revolutionary, | 23:26 |
| robtaylor | the problem with everyoe using cairo it it looses out on all the optimisation you can do if you have a stored scene graph | 23:26 |
| MDK | that with the bling-bling fluid timeline-driven UI's memory management gets suddenly X times more difficult | 23:26 |
| MDK | robtaylor: I agree | 23:27 |
| robtaylor | heh, yeah that's not too suprising | 23:27 |
| robtaylor | you might actually need a garbage collector | 23:27 |
| MDK | exactly | 23:27 |
| robtaylor | (that can cope with closed cycles) | 23:27 |
| MDK | things are not state-driven (on/off, allocated/deallocated), but rather time-driven | 23:27 |
| robtaylor | real-time garbage collection is hard though =) | 23:27 |
| MDK | "almost off, almost on" | 23:28 |
| MDK | also, writing those apps needs more threading | 23:28 |
| MDK | ie. event handling that blocks the main loop | 23:28 |
| MDK | in a traditional gtk app, in a "clicked" signal you can easily spend 100ms doing some stuff | 23:29 |
| MDK | perhaps doing some simple io, loading something, etc. | 23:29 |
| MDK | but in a fluid-ui, when you block for 100ms, you're screwed | 23:29 |
| MDK | a lot of the "niceness" is lost if the UI is not smooth | 23:29 |
| MDK | so you need worker threads, etc. And that's a pain in C | 23:30 |
| robtaylor | its a pain in any language.. | 23:30 |
| MDK | well, dunno about python | 23:30 |
| MDK | but in C# you've got a lot of helpers | 23:31 |
| shackan | MDK, did you look at evas? (of enlightenment fame) | 23:31 |
| MDK | yes, though it's poorly documented | 23:32 |
| robtaylor | well, the hardwst bits are defining your locks well and have a locking order, really :) | 23:32 |
| MDK | in evas so far I haven't found a way to ie. accelerate effects processing using fragment shaders | 23:32 |
| shackan | MDK, does it serve the same pourpose as graff? | 23:33 |
| MDK | well, I'm aiming a bit higher-level | 23:33 |
| shackan | I see | 23:34 |
| MDK | ie. in graff you (almost) can: take surface -> grayscale -> contrast -> scale -> mirror -> blit | 23:34 |
| keesj | well the evas apraoch is to define behaviour. I guess you can control this behaiour (start animation etc) in a stantard event driven app. | 23:34 |
| shackan | I remember one of the indt people working on a maemo port of evas | 23:34 |
| MDK | and the actual implementation of this pipeline depends on the driver you're running with | 23:35 |
| MDK | so you could ie. leverage all this to the GPU if you have beefy hw enough | 23:35 |
| MDK | what I'm aiming at, is trying to hide all the low-level crap from the API user | 23:36 |
| robtaylor | MDK: in case your interested, there's an implementation of the metronome real-time gc in jikies | 23:36 |
| robtaylor | *jikes | 23:36 |
| MDK | leaving only "the juice" (effects and the parameters) to the user | 23:36 |
| MDK | btw, this is something QT apparently already has | 23:37 |
| keesj | jikes? | 23:37 |
| MDK | no, the effect pipelines | 23:37 |
| robtaylor | keesj: a java vm | 23:37 |
| MDK | the original idea comes from Zack Rusin, if I'm correct | 23:37 |
| MDK | but I think that's the way to go | 23:37 |
| MDK | anyways, gtg | 23:38 |
| keesj | I know jikes the java compiler. anyway so in java | 23:39 |
| robtaylor | MDK: laters :) | 23:39 |
| tko | hmm, I thought jikes was a java compiler - insanely fast compared to the one from sun | 23:39 |
| robtaylor | keesj: no, in cpp, its the gc implementation | 23:39 |
| robtaylor | tko: yeah, it has a real-time garbage collection implementation | 23:40 |
| robtaylor | oh, hmm, maybe its not in the public release :/ | 23:40 |
| keesj | :p | 23:41 |
| *** bhima_ has joined #maemo | 23:42 | |
| *** bhima has quit IRC | 23:42 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
