IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-05-12

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penguinbaitinstall becomeroot00:02
penguinbaitthen sudo gainroot00:03
keesjI am also trying to instal it but I can't click on download from maemo.org00:03
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keesjfound it00:04
penguinbaitbora http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb00:04
trevarthanWhat is a good text editor for xterm? Vim isn't practical from the ui keyboard.00:04
penguinbaitworks fine for me00:05
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keesjI am going to try to live without a "real" computer at home for a week or something00:06
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trevarthanpenguinbait: vim works fine for you?00:07
keesjSo today I bought this wonder-keyboard (diNove Edge) , it's bluetooth and it connects to the n80000:07
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penguinbaityes00:07
trevarthanHow do you press escape?00:08
penguinbaithardware key00:08
penguinbaitthe hardware escape key00:09
trevarthanWhich one? The circle arrow?00:09
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penguinbaityes00:09
penguinbaitcircle arrow turning to the left00:10
qgilI'm going to do a microsurvey as well00:10
qgilin planet.maemo.org what would you vote:00:11
* bill20r3 had no idea that was escape00:11
qgila - hackergotchis off00:11
bill20r3that's handy.00:11
qgilb - nav bar out for that page only00:11
qgil(in fact what I have forgot to say in the last email is that we are also planning to offer "voluntary flexible width" to registered user, to be configured somewhere in your profile00:12
qgilbut this will take longer00:12
trevarthanpenguinbait: how do i arrow around in insert mode? The hardware keys print garbage.00:12
penguinbaitdo you have correct xterm?00:13
keesjthe right navigation?00:13
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trevarthanI don't know. What is the wrong xterm?00:14
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qgilkeesj: yes00:14
qgilthe right navigation or the hackergotchis, what so you kick off00:14
lmnop_is there like, a good handwriting recognition program project to tablets?00:16
keesjI would kick the nav. my brains can not handle the top + right navigation00:16
lmnop_* for tablets00:16
qgilkeesj: you mean move it horizontal ben eath the primary navigation00:17
qgilfor all pages, not only planet00:17
Jaffaqgil: ta for the insightful email. Which blog of mine uses a fixed width though, I shall purge it from the earth... unless it's the maemopeople.org one and then I don't have any control over it. http://www.bleb.org/ is fully fluid, though; as is the mud-builder page and any other website I've got control over (e.g. http://www.c7services.co.uk/mockup/ )00:17
qgilhi Jaffa, well, the one you use to post the alternative http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2007/05/11/better_planet_layout_for_firefox_users00:19
JaffaTak: fixed ;-)00:20
JaffaBah, ta - fixed.00:20
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keesjI think the navigation I would not be such a problem if the site just rendered ok.00:21
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qgilI'm glad we are progressivelly getting to a common understanding of what are the issues, really  :)00:21
keesjbut once we can search again thing will get better00:21
qgilanyway, jaffa do you have a moment?00:22
Jaffaqgil: sure - it's either this or talking to my wife's parents down stairs ;-)00:22
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qgilto me is either chatting with you or going to bed after 17h in fron of monitor screens00:22
qgilbut anyway  :)00:22
JaffaI'd go to bed :)00:23
qgilfirst thanks to you, keesj and other guys here & there - it's not marketing bla bla I do mean it00:23
qgilnow, let's discuss00:23
qgil(i need my glasses, otherwise my eyes fall, wit)00:23
keesjpenguinbait is it you site? http://eko.one.pl00:24
qgilright, http://planet.maemo.org00:25
Pupnikit can be helpful to vary the distance of monitor so eyes don't always lock on one distance00:25
* Jaffa appreciates, no matter what his views, that others disagree (admittedly mostly designers, I've had the arguments with them at work too) and that they can produce designs which are more usable for the majority in a fixed width style - and I certainly accept from a project management point of view that it's often quicker, and therefore cheaper, to produce a fixed-width site.00:25
qgilI'm now in epiphany/ubuntu (it still renders difderently with other browsers)00:25
qgilok ok, let's move forward00:25
qgilfixed width we can get rid of it in some cases but the default is fixxed00:26
qgili.e. https://bugs.maemo.org/00:26
JaffaFair enough: it's a site for which you have ultimate ownership, so your call.00:26
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qgilbugzilla could be also done fixed but it would require to hack some templates and we have now better things to do00:27
qgilbesides is something so particular like i.e. garage that doesn't matter really00:27
qgilregular users won't end up in a bug report easily00:27
qgildocumentation might also end up flexible if it's needed00:27
qgil(although books are fixed and there are plenty of them)  ;)00:28
JaffaPierre: pmo - I'd say at a minimum, the bubbles (which I don't like, but that's aesthetic and so personal) need to fill the width of the content area within the design - that means either wrapping around the nav on the right (as in X-Fade's version) or doing something else with the nav entirely (losing it, restructuring it etc.) I think this is widely accepted?00:28
Jaffaqgil: heh :)00:28
qgilthe right navogation00:28
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qgilit's a pain00:29
qgilbut first let me finish with the fixed stuff00:29
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trevarthanIs there a way to add more engines to the search applet?00:29
qgilthe planet is different, many users will end up potentially there, in cases like gnome there is more people in the planet than anywhare else00:29
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keesjtrevarthan: yes. but I don't remeber how00:30
qgilthis is why we want to keep if fixed to provide a comon feeling00:30
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JaffaI'd say restructuring the right hand side nav bar on *just* the planet would be a usability mistake, as a user's mental model gets disrupted and confused: therefore - lose it entirely would be my argument. It's less confusing for something to be not there at all, rather than shifting around/changing style. It's also possible to get to those areas from the "News" page (presuambly, and easily fixed if not).00:30
Jaffaqgil: yep, makes more sense to have a consistent design than some parts fluid, some parts fixed. Absolutely agree there.00:30
qgilright, so we also agree that the solution is either improve the nav bar in the right column or move it horizontal00:31
keesjhow does it look on the n800 itself?00:31
qgilthe current candidate is leave it in the right column and make text wrap, see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135100:32
Jaffaqgil: Personally, I don't like it - it's a messy solution since the top entry still has the same usability problems as the current site.00:32
qgilthis is why I think we need to drop hackergotchis, after all  :)00:33
qgilor put them in a different way00:33
qgilat the end is ageometric problem00:33
JaffaWrapping the blog entry around the hackergotchi (i.e. the gotchi gets floated left within the bubble) would be a solution there.00:33
keesj:p00:33
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qgilyes, could be00:34
qgilkeesj: in the n800 would be good if there wouldn't be this white gap between content and navigation, the same as in desktop00:34
sp3000could be weird with content wrapping if it starts with an img?00:34
Jaffaqgil: hear hear!00:35
sp3000how about just the title there00:35
sp3000and content below00:35
* sp3000 hasn't even followed the discussion, yay :D00:35
Jaffasp3000: yeah, although if the gotchi is wanted, having it the height of the title + date would solve that.00:35
* sp3000 isn't sure he approves of requiring login for viewing bugs00:35
qgillet's not mix things, loging for bugzila has been explained  :)00:36
keesjsp3000 has not followed email either :p00:36
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keesjsleepytime . greetings!00:36
* sp3000 is binary searching a thunderbird trunk crasher with his normal profile so no email right now ;)00:36
qgilnite!00:37
sp3000keesj: yeah work dammit :D00:37
Jaffag'night keesj00:37
qgilok, so more or less the conclusion would be:00:37
sp3000gets in the way of email00:37
qgilkeep right navigation (optimized, but this is another issue)00:37
qgilkeep hackergotchi but embedded in text00:37
qgilwould you agree with this?00:38
qgil(detaols about how to embed, if top down right left for later)00:38
JaffaIt would be better. The right hand nav isn't very long, though, so keeping it and reducing the content space seems inefficient to me as a programmer. (Yay for efficiency)00:38
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JaffaKaroliina's posts can be *very* long, of course ;-)00:39
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qgilJaffa: that's not a problem, we canm put more stuff in the right column i.e. feeds from itt and so on00:40
Jaffaah, that's a good idea.00:40
qgiland in any case nothing happens if you leave it em pty, as far as the content is readable and the images fit00:40
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Jaffaqgil: true, but presumably the current fixed width was chosen for its best readability, using only 75% of it is an imporvement over 30% of it, but it's still less than the targetted "optimum"00:41
qgilno no, my friend  :)00:41
qgilmost webs with fixed width to fit in 800px don't let you the 100 for body text, they tend to have a column00:42
qgilit is perfectly readable00:42
JaffaTrue00:42
qgilreally, wjat is the problem with http://www.ruby-lang.org/ ??00:43
qgilthis site is just delicious, I would like to be a ruby programmer just for that  :)00:43
qgilit's a good execution of a paradigm00:43
qgilthere are other paradigms with good executions, but we have decided to move maemo.org to this one00:43
sp3000oh, right, it was, I didn't find the thread for some reaason back when someon mentioned it00:43
* sp3000 shrugs00:43
JaffaYeah, but they control the content - and no single post is longer than a few lines.00:43
qgilthat's true too00:45
qgili was looking at http://planetruby.0x42.net/00:46
JaffaYeah, that's alright00:46
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qgilgotcha!  http://planet.rubyfr.net/   ;)00:46
JaffaAnd your funky drop shadows would make it better00:46
JaffaSee, I think the content there is just a shade too narrow (comparsed with the other URL)00:47
qgilalthough these ruby guys seem not to post pictures00:47
JaffaAnd, interestingly, no YouTube videos or pi... snap :)00:47
qgillet's agree on something else00:47
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qgilmax width of an object without altering layout00:48
qgilI mean without overlapping the bubble00:48
JaffaHow about: any increase in the width of the blog posts, whilst still looking pretty, is a new requirement based on seeing it "in the flesh"00:48
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qgil"in the flesh"?00:48
Jaffai.e. "live"00:49
JaffaWell, my 200px-wide thumbnail already looks cramped on the current layout, I think.00:49
qgiltabñet screenshots and youtube windows are the biggest I think00:50
JaffaYeah, an 800-px wide Maemo screenshot always looks too big to me, though. YouTube videos are about 320px wide?00:50
qgilbut a tablet screenshot... how do we make this fit when browsing with the tablet?    ;)00:51
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qgilJaffa: have you changed the layout of your maemopeople blog right now???00:52
JaffaSupposedly. It's horrid though - there doesn't seem to be any good styles to choose from.00:53
qgilso, http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2007/02/20/running_debian_proper_alongside_maemo00:53
qgilthat image would be problematic in planet maemo I guess00:53
qgillet's see... wait00:53
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qgili have posted your screenshot debian-maemo Jaffa00:56
qgilhaven't checked but I suppose is real size00:56
JaffaNo, it's downscaled to about 75% - it'll still be too wide for current layout, dunno about if you use the hackergotchi space.00:57
JaffaAnyway, I appreciate your efforts - but I've got to be up early and am shattered; will have to go to bed00:57
bill20r3woah, real debian00:58
qgilwell I think we have progressed here00:58
qgilthanks for th input00:58
qgilwrapping hacjergotchi fits01:00
qgillet's do that then01:00
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Jaffacool01:01
Jaffag'night01:01
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trevarthanIs it possible to create a shortcut for a command, or autorun a command after establishing a wireless link?01:19
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Pupniktrevarthan: maybe in /etc/network/if-up.d01:26
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trevarthanUnfortunately, /etc/network/if-up.d/netdate doesn't work when the wifi connection comes up. It works when run manually, though.02:06
trevarthanMore ideas?02:06
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trevartha1Pupnik: have you ever used /etc/network/if-up.d before?03:19
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Sandman_So what's all this talk about debian-arm on the n800?07:39
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AD-N770good morning11:16
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JaffaMorning, all11:19
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keesjI know it is over the top. but http://box.mmapps.net/~keesj/Photo-0197.jpg  I am so happy with this setup11:28
keesjFinnaly a good gadget that is not working 100% yet11:28
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Pupnik_Package must have "Section: user/FOO" to be considered compatible.11:47
Pupnik_?11:47
zakxPupnik_: that means, that packages without user/ prefix won't get installed by the package manager in blue pill mode11:48
Pupnik_thanks zakx - i'm trying to find where to add that to the debian/ dir before i build package11:50
Pupnik_ahh "section" tag in fceu is Section: user/other11:51
Pupnik_control:Section: user/other11:53
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Pupnik_update: libraries installing without error when debian/control line Section: is changed from "libs" to "user/libs"12:56
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keesjPupnik: did you read the packaging section on the website?13:04
keesjthere are also hints about adding icons.13:04
keesjicons for use in the package manager that is13:05
Pupniknot in the start menu?13:05
Pupnikany good urls you have are welcome13:05
keesjthe start menu is a diffent thing . but that is also documented , (how to popup a script to choose the menu location for the file13:06
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keesjPupnik: maemo.org -> development -> Documentation -> Hot-tos :) -> maemo 3.x -> making a package for the application manager13:09
Pupnikheh ok ty13:09
keesjand nice also is porting existing applications13:09
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keesjthat one is located under the 2.x howtos13:10
Pupnikyeah i won't do the single click install13:10
keesjso youi first need to package , setup a repo or upload to an existing13:11
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Pupnikfor some reason my logins to maemo.org are broken.  other people can log in with my account info13:12
Pupnikit's pretty crazy (using iceweasel, konqueror)13:13
keesjperhaps it's a ssl issue and they all use the same ssl lib?13:13
Pupnikthat's a good idea13:13
Pupnikwhy do i need a repo?  can't i just host .debs ?13:13
keesjthe install file format support adding repositories not .deb files.13:14
Pupnikah for one click installs13:14
keesjI think that the idea is that you can then update your repo and people will automaticaly download new versions13:15
zakxthe OS is capale of installig .debs you get from the browser13:15
zakxit's jusst crappy if your package has dependencies13:16
keesjyes . it is very crappy , the way it currently works. but it's like that13:17
keesjalso I think that installing multiple repos did not work for some reason.13:17
Pupnik?  i have multiple repositories in sources.list and they work13:18
keesjmultiple repos in one go that is ,13:18
Pupnikoh13:18
keesjso have a .install with the ogg repo + sdk 3.0 + your own is not wokring13:18
keesjand even if it wold work , I think it sill would suck. because you can not specify where to download the other debs from13:20
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keesjI guess that the only kind of nice solution is to upload the binary to the maemo repositories13:21
kulveI think the trunk version of app.mgr. supports multiple repos in .install, but not the IT2007 version13:21
keesjI don't know how the disc ended there was quite a large thread on the mailing list about that.13:22
kulveI think I missed that. So I'm not sure about what I'm saying. As usual :)13:26
Pupniklogin to garage.maemo.org works, but none of the other maemo sites - maybe they are using different ssl versions13:32
kulvefor me the login to maemo.org has worked since yesterday. Before that I could login only to garage13:33
Pupnikbugzilla.maemo.org is a strange link13:36
Pupnik"you have attempted to establish a connection with "bugs.maemo.org".  however the security certificate presented belongs to "maemo.org"13:36
s-ndh-chehe13:38
Pupnikmy browser (iceweasel) has "Use SSL 3.0" and "Use TLS 1.0" checked13:41
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maxhi guys14:23
keesjhello14:24
maxdoes anyone of you know why running fakeroot apt-get install packet in the mistral scratchbox get an error like this: dpkg: requested operation requires superuser priviledge E:Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returns error code (2)14:25
Pupnikwhat package?14:26
maxsqlite314:27
maxi need it to recompile the maemo-mapper1.4.414:27
Pupnik"fakeroot apt-get install sqlite" works here (gregale / 2.2)14:28
maxthats right but i need the sqlite3 version14:28
Pupnikapt-cache search only shows one sqlite14:28
keesjpff mistral.. that is ancient :P14:30
maxmine shows 2 versions ... the sqlite and the sqlite314:30
keesjmax older maemo-mappers used the previous sqllite version, the current maemo-mapper used sqlite314:31
keesjuses14:31
maxthats right, but on the nokia 770 device sqlite3 works also, iths the only way to get tehere the actual maemo mapper running14:32
Pupnikmaybe the sqlite3 package has an error14:32
maxbut it works on nokia ...14:33
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maxi tried another way ..i take the sources from sqlite.org14:33
maxand compile them in the scratchbox14:33
maxthe i can try for example sqlite314:33
maxand it works but the problem is wehn i try to recompile the mapper it gets an error14:34
keesjmax mud also has a sqlite3 package14:34
maxwith the the following command: pk-config sqlite3 --libs14:34
keesjwhat kind of error?14:34
maxlibary requirements (sqlite3) not met;14:35
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max_checking for sqlite3... Package sqlite3 was not found in the pkg-config search path.14:43
max_Perhaps you should add the directory containing `sqlite3.pc'14:43
max_to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable14:43
max_No package 'sqlite3' found14:43
max_configure: error: Library requirements (sqlite3) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them.14:44
maxhere is the message in detail ...14:44
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maxany ideas ?14:45
Pupniki don't know what's wrong.  i'd try dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -d14:46
keesjI guess you did not install the sqlite-dev package14:47
keesjsqlite3-dev that is14:47
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keesjmax??14:49
maxim here ..14:49
keesjyou need to install the dev packages14:50
maxi try the dev package ..one moment14:50
max_there is no sqlite3-dev14:52
max_and when i try to install the libsqlite3-dev i get a dependency error14:52
max_in other words i must reset my scratchbox and try again ...one monent guys14:53
max_exit14:53
max_.q14:53
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maxi get the same error like before15:00
maxdpkg: requested operation requires superuser priviledge E:Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returns error code (2)15:00
keesjyou are insode sbox right?15:02
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max_unixi think so15:02
keesjdid you type /scrtachbox/login or similar?15:03
max_unixi try vmware for the tests, and i set up the scratchbox exactly like it is toled in the maemo tutorial15:03
keesjto login15:03
max_unixsbin/sbox_ctl start15:03
max_unixthen ./login15:03
max_unixand then fakeroot apt-get install libsqlite3-dev15:04
keesjand what does the propmt look like" XXX_ARME>" ?15:05
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max_unix[sbox-arm: ~]15:07
max_unixi build a target called arm like it is shown in the manual15:07
max_unixsbox config -ct name, then -st -er , cc, cf15:07
max_unixanyone get some ideas left ?15:12
Pupnikare other packages also causing problems?15:15
max_unixsome apt-get install packages get the same problems, but normally it works15:15
Pupnikyou should never get that problem15:16
Pupnikwhat happens if you dpkg -i sqlite3*.deb?15:16
Pupnikfirst download, then  dpkg install the sqlite deb file directly15:17
max_unix[sbox-arm: ~] > dpkg -i sqlite3_3.3.8-1_armel.deb15:18
max_unixdpkg: requested operation requires superuser privilege15:18
max_unix[sbox-arm: ~] > fakeroot dpkg -i sqlite3_3.3.8-1_armel.deb15:18
max_unixSelecting previously deselected package sqlite3.15:18
max_unix(Reading database ... 25314 files and directories currently installed.)15:18
max_unixUnpacking sqlite3 (from sqlite3_3.3.8-1_armel.deb) ...15:18
max_unixrm: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory15:18
max_unixdpkg: error while cleaning up:15:18
max_unix subprocess rm cleanup returned error exit status 12715:18
max_unixdpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of sqlite3:15:18
max_unix sqlite3 depends on libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.3.8); however:15:18
max_unix  Package libsqlite3-0 is not installed.15:18
max_unixdpkg: error processing sqlite3 (--install):15:18
max_unix dependency problems - leaving unconfigured15:18
max_unixErrors were encountered while processing:15:18
max_unix sqlite315:18
max_unix[sbox-arm: ~] >15:18
max_unix[sbox-arm: ~] > fakeroot dpkg -i libsqlite3-0_3.3.8-1_armel.deb15:18
max_unixrm: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory15:18
max_unixdpkg: error processing libsqlite3-0_3.3.8-1_armel.deb (--install):15:18
max_unix subprocess rm cleanup returned error exit status 12715:18
max_unixErrors were encountered while processing:15:18
max_unix libsqlite3-0_3.3.8-1_armel.deb15:18
Pupnikdon't flood the channel, you see the problem right at the top15:18
max_unixi think the problem consists of the libfakeroot-tcp error15:19
max_unixyou get an idea to solfe the problem ?15:20
Pupnikdo you see the file with ls -l /usr/lib/libfakeroot/?15:21
Pupnik 50581 Apr 12 09:32 /usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0.0.115:21
max_unixls -l /usr/lib/libfakeroot/?15:21
max_unixls -l /usr/lib/libfakeroot/15:21
max_unixfuck15:22
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max_unixyes its there15:22
Pupnikin your situation, i would set up scratchbox with maemo/ITOS2006 2.2 (gregale)15:23
Pupniknot many people doing anything with mistral now15:23
Pupnikso it's harder to see what is different with your environment15:23
max_unixbut when i compile with gregale are the binarys compatible with the mistral environment on the device ?15:24
Pupniki don't know15:25
max_unixnice :-)15:26
Pupnikwhy not upgrade to latest it2006 on the 77015:26
max_unixi've done this already15:26
Pupnikthen your apps will run15:26
max_unixbut this is a mistral release ?15:26
Guardianhello #maemo15:26
max_unix2006.49-2 is the latest15:27
Pupniksorry i may have been confused... anyway the gregale stuff i compiled ran on latest it200615:27
max_unixthas fine ... to update on gregale i musst use another rootsrap (the 2.2 version) or do i need the aktual scratchbox version ?15:28
max_unix+t15:28
Pupnik just rootstrap15:29
max_unixthank you, you help me alot ..15:29
max_unixi try to set up the scratchbox .. then i come back ..15:30
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keesjmax_unix: you have such weir problems, the sdk installl must have failed.16:37
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keesjdisk full?16:38
maxno16:38
][eBergI am unable to restore from backups, the 770 refuses to read them, and there are installed apps that no longer show up in the app manager, is there a way to do a total factory restore?16:38
maxi set up i new snapshot in the vmware to test with rootsrap 2.216:39
maxin 5 minutes we know if it is working there16:39
maxback to the sdk install .. is there anything withs is not in the maemo scratchbox manual ?16:40
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Pupnik][eBerg: reflash the 770, or fix it :)16:42
Pupnikmax, dunno - been a long time since i installed sb16:42
][eBergwill flashing the firware erase everyting?16:43
keesjwith 2.1 I installed using the installer. I think the result was a full working system , id don't really remember16:43
Pupnikyes16:44
][eBergok, Im on the nokia site now16:44
max_unixusing the installer .. really ?16:44
max_unixi tried this for 2.0 severall times and it never worked16:44
Pupnik?  i installed scratchbox with apt-get (debian sid)16:45
Pupnikbtw sidux kernels do not work with scratchbox16:45
max_unixW: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems16:49
max_unixE: Sub-process /scratchbox/devkits/debian/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)16:49
max_unix[sbox-arm2: ~] >16:49
max_unixsame problem with rootstrap 2.2 thean with RS 2.016:50
Pupnikdo you get errors when logging in with /scratchbox/login ?16:54
max_unixno16:54
Pupnikok so you're now in 2.216:54
max_unixthats right16:54
Pupnikwhen i'm in 2.2 i see no sqlite3 - only sqlite16:54
Pupnikwhat repository did you add to get sqlite3?16:55
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max_unixdeb     http://scratchbox.org/crocodile/ crocodile main16:55
max_unixdeb-src http://scratchbox.org/crocodile/ crocodile main16:55
max_unix#maemo:essential16:55
max_unixdeb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/     gregale user16:55
max_unixdeb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/non-certified/ gregale user16:55
max_unix#maemo:name maemo-hackers16:55
max_unixdeb http://maemo-hackers.org/apt gregale main16:55
max_unix#maemo:name MUlliNER.ORG Maemo Software (Maemo 2.x)16:55
max_unixdeb http://www.mulliner.org/nokia770/repository/ maemo2 free16:55
max_unix#maemo:name mistral-extras16:55
max_unixdeb http://repository.maemo.org/extras gregale free non-free16:55
max_unix#maemo:name repository.maemo.org16:55
max_unixdeb http://repository.maemo.org/ gregale free non-free16:55
max_unixi added this ones16:55
max_unixbut i just replace the mistral name with gregale to get sources16:56
max_unixi thing the sqlite3 is in the http://repository.maemo.org/extras gregal or in the http://repository.maemo.org/ gregal16:57
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max_unix[sbox-arm2: ~] > fakeroot dpkg -i libsqlite3-0_3.3.8-1_armel.deb17:03
max_unixdpkg: `start-stop-daemon' not found on PATH.17:03
max_unixdpkg: `install-info' not found on PATH.17:03
max_unixdpkg: 2 expected program(s) not found on PATH.17:03
max_unixNB: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin.17:03
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Pupnikahh crocodile17:27
Pupnikwtf is that17:27
Pupniki don't think you want scratchbox.org in your scratchbox environment sources17:28
max_unixthe entry was already there17:28
Pupnikhrm maybe17:28
Pupnikhere i just have deb http://scratchbox.org/debian/ ./17:29
max_unixif you add the maemo repository and install sqlite3 what happen ?17:30
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maxim stil here .. just restarting the other client17:35
Pupnikok17:39
Pupnikwhich repo has sqlite3?17:39
Pupnikooh i see17:40
keesjmax are you interessted in the result (having a maemo-mapper) or to get it wokring?17:41
Pupnikok added extyras - updating17:41
Pupniki get no errors installing sqlite317:42
maxi need to get it recompiled and then i must add functionalitys17:42
PupnikSetting up sqlite3 (3.3.5-0.2osso1)17:42
maxhmm thats funny17:42
maxwhat deb packages have you installed ?17:42
Pupniksqlite3_3.3.5-0.2osso1_armel.deb17:42
maxand for the scratchbox ?17:42
Pupnikscratchbox-core: Installed: 1.0.717:43
maxhttp://scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/apophis/deb/17:43
Pupnikscratchbox-devkit-debian: Installed: 1.0.7.117:43
Pupnikscratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm: Installed: 1.0.517:44
Pupnikscratchbox-libs: Installed: 1.0.717:44
maxi try to download and install them, maybe it helps17:45
Pupnikscratchbox-devkit-cputransp: Installed: 1.0.217:46
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Pupnik sb-conf ls -d17:47
Pupnikdebian-sarge17:47
Pupnikdebian17:47
Pupnikcputrans17:47
Pupniksorry that was wrong17:48
Pupniksb-conf sh -d17:48
Pupnikdebian cputransp17:48
Pupnikno debian-sarge in current target17:48
maxok17:48
Pupniki have no idea what is wrong but if you want info about my configuration, just ask17:51
maxand rootstrap version 2.2 ?17:51
Pupniky17:51
PupnikMaemo_Dev_Platform_v2.2_armel-rootstrap.tgz17:52
maxi will try it, but tomorrow ..i worked since 10 ... and today is weekend so i'll get a break17:52
maxthank you for your help17:52
Pupnikyou're welcome :) enjoy weekend17:52
maxwe will meet again maybe ;-)17:52
maxok ..bye17:53
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unique311http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/104047/3D_Printer_The_450.html  < 3D printer20:15
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mmrhi21:54
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Sandman_So why won't anyone just run debian-arm on the Nokia N800?22:07
unique311tableteer.nokia.com/ is it down?22:07
gla55sandman: why would someone?22:08
koendebian/arm is just so optimised for touchscreen usage22:10
koen</sarcasm>22:10
gla55yeah22:11
gla55maybe if you used the n800 as some server for some strange reason22:11
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bhimaHrm. Carman seems to have channel 1 hardcodded in for bluetooth.22:22
* bhima wants to figure out what is wrong with his car.22:22
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nostalg1cis there a way to keep the n770 from fading out / blacking out when in fullscreen mode?22:40
keesjno easy way, many app specific hacks22:50
nostalg1cfor the browser would be a good start :)22:51
nostalg1cbtw, for the n770, am i locked to opera8 or are there upgrades?22:51
keesjI dont know, I dont even know what version the n800 ships22:54
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robtaylorMDK: so whats happening with Graff? you know there's a whole load of canvas talk going on gtk-devel-list atm?22:56
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MDKrobtaylor: yes, I know, I'm following that23:14
MDKrobtaylor: I'm working now on graff-effects, which is an abstracted effects processing pipeline23:15
MDKrobtaylor: where you can create complex effect chains, which are later run using software/hardware23:16
MDKrobtaylor: I'm planning to post some of my findings to the list soon23:18
robtaylorMDK: cool! is the code up anywhere yet?23:18
MDKrobtaylor: IMHO, the canvas should be as simple as possible23:18
keesjgraf in dutch is the place where you get burried23:18
keesjitś grave23:19
MDKrobtaylor: in principle, the canvas doesn't do much by itself, it should just abstract the basic stacking/layouting model23:19
MDKthe big question is, what you build on the top of it...23:19
sp3000this is where pixels get buried then? :P23:20
keesjitś the underground grave . it looks pretty from the outside and you dont want to look inside23:20
robtaylorMDK: sounds like a sensible model to me23:21
keesjwhat and how, I have looked a bit at it,23:22
keesjmy feeling is that how is also imporent, just look at flash for example. it does the scaling/sound/media stuff23:22
keesjit only gets cool if you can do media with it23:23
keesjwith23:23
MDKkeesj: that's true, if you make too much assumptions on the lowest level, you're going to get stuck with them on the higher layers23:24
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keesjMDK: perhaps a metisse/mezzo clone?23:24
MDKrobtaylor: I plan to open my stuff before guadec, so that I can have some proof-of-concept we can maybe discuss23:24
robtaylorMDK: cool :)23:25
MDKkeesj: well, I'm not really interested in window/desktop management, but the application toolkit/drawing model itself23:25
robtayloryeah, i'd really like a canvas that can be efficient..23:25
MDKrobtaylor: my primary finding is, perhaps not too revolutionary,23:26
robtaylorthe problem with everyoe using cairo it it looses out on all the optimisation you can do if you have a stored scene graph23:26
MDKthat with the bling-bling fluid timeline-driven UI's memory management gets suddenly X times more difficult23:26
MDKrobtaylor: I agree23:27
robtaylorheh, yeah that's not too suprising23:27
robtayloryou might actually need a garbage collector23:27
MDKexactly23:27
robtaylor(that can cope with closed cycles)23:27
MDKthings are not state-driven (on/off, allocated/deallocated), but rather time-driven23:27
robtaylorreal-time garbage collection is hard though =)23:27
MDK"almost off, almost on"23:28
MDKalso, writing those apps needs more threading23:28
MDKie. event handling that blocks the main loop23:28
MDKin a traditional gtk app, in a "clicked" signal you can easily spend 100ms doing some stuff23:29
MDKperhaps doing some simple io, loading something, etc.23:29
MDKbut in a fluid-ui, when you block for 100ms, you're screwed23:29
MDKa lot of the "niceness" is lost if the UI is not smooth23:29
MDKso you need worker threads, etc. And that's a pain in C23:30
robtaylorits a pain in any language..23:30
MDKwell, dunno about python23:30
MDKbut in C# you've got a lot of helpers23:31
shackanMDK, did you look at evas? (of enlightenment fame)23:31
MDKyes, though it's poorly documented23:32
robtaylorwell, the hardwst bits are defining your locks well and have a locking order, really :)23:32
MDKin evas so far I haven't found a way to ie. accelerate effects processing using fragment shaders23:32
shackanMDK, does it serve the same pourpose as graff?23:33
MDKwell, I'm aiming a bit higher-level23:33
shackanI see23:34
MDKie. in graff you (almost) can: take surface -> grayscale -> contrast -> scale -> mirror -> blit23:34
keesjwell the evas apraoch is to define behaviour. I guess you can control this behaiour (start animation etc) in a stantard event driven app.23:34
shackanI remember one of the indt people working on a maemo port of evas23:34
MDKand the actual implementation of this pipeline depends on the driver you're running with23:35
MDKso you could ie. leverage all this to the GPU if you have beefy hw enough23:35
MDKwhat I'm aiming at, is trying to hide all the low-level crap from the API user23:36
robtaylorMDK: in case your interested, there's an implementation of the metronome real-time gc in jikies23:36
robtaylor*jikes23:36
MDKleaving only "the juice" (effects and the parameters) to the user23:36
MDKbtw, this is something QT apparently already has23:37
keesjjikes?23:37
MDKno, the effect pipelines23:37
robtaylorkeesj: a java vm23:37
MDKthe original idea comes from Zack Rusin, if I'm correct23:37
MDKbut I think that's the way to go23:37
MDKanyways, gtg23:38
keesjI know jikes the java compiler. anyway so in java23:39
robtaylorMDK: laters :)23:39
tkohmm, I thought jikes was a java compiler - insanely fast compared to the one from sun23:39
robtaylorkeesj: no, in cpp, its the gc implementation23:39
robtaylortko: yeah, it has a real-time garbage collection implementation23:40
robtayloroh, hmm, maybe its not in the public release :/23:40
keesj:p23:41
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