IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2006-10-30

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LittlefaeHullo room01:04
LittlefaeAnyone able to tell me what gfx chip is in ths 770?  There are hints that it may be one of the nVidia mobile chips01:06
danielsha, no hope01:06
danielsit's the embedded omap display controller.  you're not going to get any meaningful acceleration out of it.01:07
LittlefaeThought it might have been one of the chips similar to those in cellphones01:07
danielsvery few phones have the mbx, imageon, or the mobile nv chip.  they suck up too much power.01:08
LittlefaeMaybe the next-gen 770 will then. :)01:08
glass_most 3d in phones is pure software01:09
glass_at the moment01:09
JussiPOne of the N series phones has HW OpenGL. Can't remember which one, though.01:09
danielsn-gage ;)01:10
JussiPOne of those probably.01:10
glass_n-gage is just soft 3d01:10
LittlefaeN-gage makes 3D look ugly.....01:10
glass_n-gage doesn't make 3d ugly.. it's the crappy coders in some of the games that made it look ugly01:11
LittlefaeMy old motorola was prettier01:11
glass_trying to use 3d in wrong places and shit01:11
glass_like said, just software01:11
JussiPThe small screen and resolution makes it look crappy.01:11
LittlefaeRight now, I would just kill for full framerate flash on this 770. >_<01:12
JussiPI would gladly kill all web designers who use gratuitous amounts of Flash.01:13
glass_flash is great..       for funny flash movies.01:13
LittlefaeStart wirth gootube then01:14
LittlefaeIncidentally, does anyone have a maemo-mapper that actually runs?01:15
LittlefaeStill getting a 'segmentation failure' msg01:16
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myrenbut then, i dont work for vmware01:20
myrengod damn it01:20
myrenpardon, i seem to have lost control over my selection buffer today01:21
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bergie_the new layout is now running on
bergie_some issues with non-Mozilla browsers though10:14
X-Fadebergie_: Nice :)10:17
X-FadeOn 770 the corners are messed up..10:17
bergie_X-Fade: design is by tigert...
X-Fadebergie_: Yeah, I lurk here 24/7 ;)10:18
bergie_CSS files are in here:
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X-Fadebergie_: Maybe you should give the corner divs a fixed width?10:21
zoydare there any version related issues with running maemo within scratchbox?10:22
bergie_X-Fade: I'll see if I have time to look at it or wait for tigert10:23
MDKvery nice10:24
MDKnow we just need to update that documentation *cough*10:24
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AD-N770good morning11:05
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tigertX-Fade: yea, I need to test it with the 770 of course11:08
tigertdepends on the opera suckyness as how well it works currently, but I of course plan to fix it11:08
X-Fadetigert: Yeah, it seems to be a background-position problem.11:10
tigertany hints are of course gladly appreciated11:11
tigertalso the menubar is a bit weird11:11
tigertit shouldnt have the 2 pixel padding of white in there11:11
tigertwhen you compare to the screenshot in garage11:11
tigertbut I'm investigating that too. my css is just a bit rusty11:11
bergie_tigert: I committed a quick CSS hack for displaying the submenus better, but that needs a bit of thought still11:11
florian_kcgood morning11:11
tigertfeel free to mess with it11:11
X-Fadetigert: I think you have to specify the width and height of the div.11:11
tigertX-Fade: right11:12
tigertX-Fade: will try11:12
tigertI need to ask ferenc whether it auto-updates or not11:12
tigertI guess not at the moment11:12
X-FadeToo bad you can't specify an alternative css in opera on 770 ;)11:12
tigertbergie_: if you have it around there open in an editor, can you try to add the size stuff to the corner div's ?11:12
tigertX-Fade: well, we could11:13
tigertor wait11:13
tigertit claims to be msie, right11:13
tigertor something equally silly?11:13
X-FadeIn ff i can replace the css of a page. Not sure if opera can do that too.11:13
X-FadeSo I can use a local css, to test the changes.11:14
tigertah right11:14
tigertbut you can just save the page locally11:14
tigertand mess with it there11:14
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tigertso the GPS -like thing on engadget was true11:18
tigertI guess we are like ibm, nobody knows what's going on in the other side of the company ;)11:18
X-FadeHehe and the 870/880 will probably be true too ;)11:19
tigert"for everything else, there's engadget!" :)11:22
X-FadeI just hope it will be a joint plaform. So, like series 60. You can use software on multiple hardware models.11:23
koen|worktime to start cloning an arm and leg11:24
* koen|work wonders if the new models will have a dev discount as well11:24
koen|worktigert: is very curvy and gradienty, except for the submenus on the right11:25
tigertkoen|work: yea, submenus have not yet been shaved and chipped for gradienty curvyness11:27
tigertjust basic css axe so far11:27
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robtaylortigert: crazy11:38
robtaylortigert: looks like the same software you can buy for the 77011:38
tigertrobtaylor: the gps?11:41
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tigertthat screenshot must be a mockup though11:42
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tigertor its not simple ARM11:51
tigertimagine 3d vectors with antialiasing on the 770 cpu...11:51
tigertnot going to happen easily :)11:51
tigertso it either is a mockup or something else does the math in it11:52
tigertlunchtime I think . &11:52
zoydtigert: a web tablet that can serve as a desktop heater11:52
inzThe gps-thingie does have way smaller resolution, which should help in drawing such arrows11:55
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robtaylortigert: hmm, you can buy that same software on the 770,so...12:24
robtaylorscreenshots look the same to me :)12:25
roopeIt has nice voice features. :)12:26
roopeFor finnish it has 4 B-class celebrity voices.12:26
roopeTaru Valkeapää and Pentti Salovaara.12:26
koen|worknot a voice from lordi?12:27
roopeThat would be nice.12:27
inzDidn't Valkeapää host Hugo TV-game?12:29
VReChildren liked the game and parents (fathers?) the host12:33
Knirch... what the..12:33
inzVRe, yeah, something like that =)12:33
inzVRe, found some game review about a hugo game, which mentioned Taru's "microskirts"12:34
KnirchWhat is the battery lifetime of the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet when used for navigation?12:34
KnirchActive navigation time is up to 15 hours without the charger connected. Navigation software includes power-saving logic to help save the battery.12:34
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tigertbergie_: can you update the site?13:14
tigertor does ferenc have to do it?13:14
tigertrobtaylor: it doesnt look like navicore though on that screen mockup13:14
X-FadeI wonder if you will be able to purchase the software only. Since I already have a BT GPS :)13:15
tigertrobtaylor: well, most maps look the same anyway :)13:15
tigertX-Fade: at least for the phones you can afaik13:15
* robtaylor takes another look13:16
robtaylortigert: oh, you're rihgt, it looks like someone's hand-drawn version of navicore ;)13:16
tigertIllustrator, I'd guess :)13:17
* robtaylor agrees ;)13:17
* tigert doesnt quite understand this "Scandinavia" version of navicore13:17
tigertpeople travel, you know13:17
tigertor "UK" version13:17
tigerthow about "Europe" for a decent price, seriously?13:18
tigertor "world"?13:18
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robtaylortigert: you hve to purchase them seperately?13:18
robtaylorits a bit crazy13:18
tigertits their business plan I guess13:18
tigertbut its kinda silly considering that people do travel quite a lot13:19
tigertat least some of the target group13:19
tigertits fine if you are a taxi in london to get the "UK" version I guess13:19
tigertbut not if you fly to conferences etc a lot13:19
tigertbut I guess they have different coverage versions13:19
tigertplus the data tends to get big13:19
abI wonder what format this thing is using13:20
abtigert: full Russia in vector is less than 600Mb13:20
abtigert: Belarus map in vector is 4Mb13:21
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abwith quite good resolution and down-to-street maps of cities13:21
tigertits vector afaik13:21
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tigerttheir pages say scandinavia takes 256MB13:22
tigertbut they also have point of interest data too13:22
tigertlike restaurants, etc13:22
abunderoptimized :-)13:22
tigertand gas stations etc13:22
tigertat least on the phone version of the software13:22
robtaylorab: surely that depends on what level of detail you have13:22
absame in the maps I pointed to13:22
abrobtaylor: I have (freely available) Belarus map which is about 4Mb big, with POI covering full country, including gas stations, police stations, shops, etc13:23
abI'm asking about formats because there is a (shareware) map editor which allows to draw and convert maps between different formats13:24
robtaylorab: how dows it compare with, say a OS landranger map?13:25
abrobtaylor: what is that? :-)13:26
robtaylorab: on of the scales of ordinance survey maps13:27
robtaylorab: OS has scales where you can see the outlines of individual houses, 10 m contour lines and the smallest paths.. i'm pretty certain that takes up quite a bit of data ;)13:31
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abrobtaylor: same on this one13:32
ablet me find you an example...13:32
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abrobtaylor: is an online version of that map combined with Google Map13:38
abrobtaylor: as far as I can see, English version doesn't show anything but russian one works13:38
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abso you may try to zoom-in in yellow M2 marked city (capital)13:39
keesjis that where you live?13:40
keesjunder a viaduct?13:40
robtaylorab: its somewhat lower res than the landranger, but still pretty impressive :)13:41
abrobtaylor: this is done by volunteers who go with GPS and record tracks13:41
tigertab: are you hooked up with
tigertab: talk to sxpert-work13:44
abin Russian-speaking countries people have their own project13:44
tigertit would make sense to join forces too I think13:44
tigertso the data could be shared accross13:44
abthis is built around geopainting.com13:46
abwhich is the editor I'm talking about13:46
abthe guy who makes this editor is also working in a company which develops a navigation software13:47
abthe editor supports polish format and is able to export/import in many other formats too but original format is "polish"13:47
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robtaylorab: in that case, very impressive :)13:49
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abtigert: so it is possible to use MP maps with
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bergie_hi ab!14:01
abhey, Bergie14:02
bergie_tigert: ferenc is now updating the site14:02
bergie_for now you have to manually update the style from SVN, though it would be easy to automate14:02
bergie_tigert: great, now renders correctly on 77014:07
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X-Fadebergie_: Took me a while to get that fixed ;)14:07
bergie_X-Fade: ah, you did it. thanks!14:08
bergie_it is somehow relevant that this particular site works properly with 770 as the application catalog will be there :-)14:08
X-FadeYeah, it would be bad if that didn't render correctly on 770 :)14:09
bergie_now tigert then would need to decide the application catalog UI so I can continue on that...14:09
sxpert-workab: I'm here :D14:24
absxpert-work: just wanted to ask if it is possible for OSM to interoperate with polish format14:25
abi.e., is it possible to import it?14:25
sxpert-workab: the important thing is that the imported data must be under a free licence of some sort. we can't accept any sort of proprietary data for obvious reasons. OSM data is under CC-BY-SA14:26
absxpert-work: I understand that. I'm not looking at contributing myself (not a map maker by any means) but want to understand if it is already implemented so that I could convince existing projects to export data convert data to OSM14:28
sxpert-workab: you should come over on oftc #osm for more info :D14:28
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X-FadeHmm no midgard for it seems.14:59
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aCiDBaSehello :)15:14
florian_kchi netmask15:14
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tigertbergie_: nice15:27
bergie_X-Fade: well, at least they managed to choose something :-)15:30
X-Fadebergie_: Yes, but still too bad for you :(15:31
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bergie_X-Fade: Plone isn't too bad from what I've heard, and at least now I can just sit back and watch the process instead of having to work on it ;-)15:32
bergie_but yeah, would've been fun to get on Midgard like we're now doing with maemo.org15:32
X-Fadebergie_: Hehe, I'm very interrested what will come of it.15:33
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X-Fadebergie_: At least you can show the world through how cool it is. :)15:34
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bergie_that part is looking good so far. the base layout is now nicely midgardized, and we have most of the user account sync from Gforge to Midgard working15:35
X-FadeNow you only need a design for the app. catalog ;)15:37
bergie_yes... waiting that from tigert15:38
X-Fadetiger's inkscape foo :)15:38
bergie_the DB backend and content entry form are done, but I haven't done anything on the search/listing UI as I don't know how it is supposed to work/look15:38
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X-Fadebergie_: Every thing is a div :) That way you can do everything in css..15:39
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X-Fadebergie_: Every thing is a div :) That way you can do everything in css..15:40
bergieX-Fade: colloquy crashed so I might've missed what you were saying15:40
X-FadeI already re-pasted it ;)15:41
bergieX-Fade: I think the actual entries will be listed using
bergieX-Fade: but we may not want to display everything in the listing view, as people might be on GPRS15:42
X-FadeYou could add a low-bandwidth switch somewhere..15:43
bergiealso, I think the application catalog will be page per category, not page for whole catalog like now15:51
X-FadeSure, it is getting far too big now.15:51
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shaprDid I miss any good gossip about the Nokia 870?16:14
inzThere is no such thing as good gossip.16:15
VReIt would be information if it would be good16:16
danielstko: haha, is great16:17
danielstko: it's a bit misleading though, it implies that there's crime in finland16:17
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danielstko: is _very_ accurate16:22
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tigertbergie: are you here  today btw?16:34
tigertbergie: your jabber says so16:35
bergiesitting in ferenc's room16:36
X-Fadebergie: You are mixing phptags and shorttags in ROOT.php.16:45
bergieso it seems... fixing16:48
X-FadeI only found one instance :)16:48
bergieyep... that is what I get for "copy-paste coding" ;-)16:48
tigertbergie: duh16:53
* tigert walks over16:53
tigertbergie: how long will you be around?16:53
koen| loads a zillion times faster now over gprs16:55
koen|workbut it lost its curviness :(16:55
bergietigert: no idea16:56
X-Fadekoen|work: Make sure the stylesheet isn't cached.16:56
koen|workand the 'submenu' has a bigger header as the main menu16:56
bergieferenc is playing with the replication stuff now so the test site may be broken every now and then16:56
tigerteek :)16:56
tigertits plain default again now16:56
tigertkoen|work: was it very slow? I can try to optimize the png's at some point16:57
koen|worktigert: as slow as gprs is :)16:57
koen|worktigert: and I suspect camino isn't optimized for high-latency links16:57
tigertalso I didnt optimize the pngs at all yet16:57
tigertthye are straight from inkscape16:57
koen|workit starts rendering very late16:57
X-Fadetigert: It has to fetch a lot of files, 5 css files and 6 javascripts on top of all images.16:58
tigertand the maemo browser doesnt cache much16:59
X-FadeAnd each fetch on gprs takes a lot of time..16:59
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bergiewe could maybe add mod_gzip there to compress the data, though I'm not sure if the maemo browser supports that17:02
glass_that would just help with bw, not latency17:04
glass_having it do more fetches at once helps more on 3g.. plenty of bw, 200ms+ ping17:05
X-FadeEasiest thing to do is just join all css files and all js files :) 2 fetches instead of 11 wins a lot of time.17:07
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bergieeasy to do, too17:12
bergieoh, it has been reverted to the old layout. the correct layout doesn't have any JS17:12
inzyay for no javascript!17:15
bergiethe JS is in the current layout anyway only for IE support17:22
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||cwI have IT2006 install, and have for some times now.  today I tried to install 3 packages and they all say they are incompatable.18:45
||cwany idea what I missed?18:45
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part||cw: are they _arm.deb instead of _armel.deb? If so, they are for it2005, and are indeed not compatible18:49
||cwno, for instance
||cwand the openvpn client18:49
||cwboth off ApplicationCatalog2006 wiki page18:50
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||cwgrr, now I'm getting a network error on any downlaod18:55
* sp3000 giggles at
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partI guess that's funny18:59
tigert"luemut" means "readme"19:02
tigert"I would if..." :)19:03
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part||cw: can you try installing with dpkg manually? (provided that you have root access)19:04
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zuhtigert: or readbut ;)20:54
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vidaroops. :)21:01
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tigertyeah :)21:09
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ferenchi all21:37
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ian_brasilseems midgard was up there in the choice for the new site rewrite21:41
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LateralusIs there anything exposed via DBUS which will allow you to poll the status of iap connectivity?21:46
LateralusThe only thing related is the status_changed signal of, but I need something I can poll immediately21:47
bergieian_brasil: yep. I blogged a bit about it in
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ian_brasilseems like a brazilian guys leading the rewrite as well21:59
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||cwpart: it did work from command line, odd22:11
agnethi, is it possible to set a password on boot of my n770?22:12
||cwagnet: not that I have noticed22:12
Takcould probably make an applet to do so22:12
agneti hope to block it, something like grub's pwd22:13
benzeayou can turn on "device lock" in the control panel22:17
||cwagnet: you'd have to see if the nokia bootloader supports anything like that22:18
||cwthe bootloader isn't likely to support touchscreen input though, so you'd probably be locked into used some button combo, which doens't leave much and so it's probably simply not implemented22:19
agneti'm looking for it ||cw.... benzea: so you can block only a session, i would like be sure that if i'll lost my n770 nobody can turn on it22:20
||cwnot sure if the boot loaders is open source either, though i haven't looked, seems like it wouldn't need to be22:20
agnetsorry for my english...22:20
||cwi don't know of any handheld that supports that level of security22:20
||cwlock on bootup would be about as good as i would expect22:21
agnetprobably, the idea of an applet is right...22:21
benzeaagnet, it'll ask on bootup then22:21
||cwthough, someone can always attach to usb and download the flash image and disect it, but the same is true of anything22:21
agnetsure |22:22
agnetbut 80% of people don't know it22:23
Lateralusdoes osso_iap_get_statistics return anything useful I can use to determine if no iap is connected?22:23
Lateraluseg, will it return OSSO_IAP_ERROR if no connection is present?22:23
inzLateralus, how about ICD_GET_STATE_REQ?22:40
agnetdo you know if there's a deb package of xscreensaver?...i would like to try use it to block automatically my screen...22:40
inzagnet, what's wrong with device lock?22:41
Lateralusinz: I'm not seeing that anywhere, have a link?22:41
agnetif you lost your n770, everybody can turn it on22:42
inzLateralus: /usr/include/osso-ic-dbus.h22:42
inzagnet, how does xscreensaver help there?22:42
agneti can't stop it to boot22:42
agnetusing an applet to startup xscreensaver22:42
inzagnet, well, if device lock autolock is enabled, the device cannot be used without the code or reflash.22:43
inzagnet, sure it can be powered up, but one cannot get any access to the device22:43
agnetbut it's only later a 5 min22:43
inzNo, immediately on boot22:43
agneti wrong something... sorry22:44
agneti've seen only to block it after five minutes22:44
agneton the control panel22:44
inzYeah, but it should ask for the code always on startup22:44
inzWhatever the setting is.22:45
inzNot sure though, you can try.22:45
agnettell me, tnx22:45
||cwwow, it does22:45
inzIt should pretty well protect your private data at least22:46
agnetyes, it's true... thanks, sorry22:47
inzI guess there are ways to circumvent that, but at least it isn't too easy.22:47
agneti've seen now22:47
||cwi woulnd'22:48
||cwt have that the=at it would either, good to know though22:48
Lateralusinz: is there any reason the get_state method is not documented in the connectivity howto/faq?22:48
agnetthanks a lot22:48
inzLateralus, I don't know22:49
Lateralusinz: Thanks for your help22:49
inzLateralus, I never use documentation, if .h is enough =)22:49
agnetsee you... hi22:50
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Lateralusinz: at this point I have no idea what that method returns22:51
inzLateralus, try dbus-send --print-reply, it's pretty handy22:51
Lateraluswhich is to say, I don't know what to pass to dbus_message_get_args22:51
Lateralusinz: ah22:51
Lateralusinz: I'll give that a shot, thanks22:52
inzIIRC it returns at least one UINT32, which is zero if there's no connection22:53
inzNot sure if you get some other info too, like connection name or something.22:53
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Lateralusinz: is this format correct; dbus-send --print-reply /com/nokia/icd
inzLateralus, you need at least --type=method_call22:57
inzLateralus, and probably also
inzI guess it should default to system bus, but if it doesn't, then also a --system22:58
zuhdbus-send defaults to session bus23:04
zuhAt least in upstream (don't see why it should been changed for maemo)23:04
inzOk, I usually just define the bus rather than trying to remember such details. =)23:06
zuhIt's the usual principle of "user first" we all love and uphold ;)23:07
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Lateralusinz: The only response is a uint32, 0 or 1.23:15
Lateralusinz: thanks :)23:15
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