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| RzR | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1357763#post1357763 | 00:05 |
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| coderus | sure. regular repository. | 00:09 |
| coderus | also check my trusted repo. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90638&goto=newpost | 00:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | coderus: btw your transted repo would conflict with cetain packages | 00:11 |
| coderus | RzR: i think need to move your "hard" stuff like fuse and so, usig extended credentials to Trusted repository to automatically install it with com.nokia.maemo | 00:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | i mean if i want to have only certain packages and not replace all system | 00:11 |
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| RzR | Custodian, i have those apps's sources hosted on appsformeego | 00:12 |
| coderus | ZogG_laptop: dont'worry, i'm not increasing version, you will not get any updates notifications about system packages. | 00:12 |
| coderus | you can reinstall them manuall only, if want | 00:12 |
| RzR | btw what is planned for nokia store ? | 00:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | RzR: to delete it from face of the earth | 00:13 |
| coderus | ZogG_laptop: yeah :) | 00:13 |
| RzR | ZogG_laptop, we should backup it before :) | 00:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | RzR: backup it to /dev/null | 00:14 |
| RzR | no way | 00:14 |
| RzR | there are lot of good apps there | 00:14 |
| coderus | RzR: arent we already have all store apps installed/bought?) | 00:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | together with nokia | 00:14 |
| RzR | coderus, ? | 00:14 |
| RzR | we ? | 00:14 |
| coderus | RzR: i have hugr AptBackup from osa | 00:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | i bought few games/apps and mostly only to support few devs | 00:15 |
| coderus | hige* | 00:15 |
| RzR | coderus, osa ? | 00:15 |
| coderus | damn huge! | 00:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | as most good apps are free and opensource | 00:15 |
| coderus | nokia store source | 00:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | coderus: so i know whom i need to talk to if i reflash my n9 one more time :) | 00:15 |
| RzR | how many debs ? | 00:16 |
| Custodian | RzR: and what about debs from afm? or only sources? | 00:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | over9000 :) | 00:17 |
| coderus | RzR: ZogG_laptop; write me a list of apps from store, i'll check if i bought/cached it and will cache if not | 00:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: or you are basil, privet :) | 00:17 |
| Custodian | o/ | 00:17 |
| RzR | Custodian, i have debs too | 00:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | coderus: no need now. if i get errors on re-download or stuck i'll ping you over twitter | 00:18 |
| Custodian | RzR: for user friendly apps with UI, this is a preffered way now :) | 00:18 |
| coderus | ZogG_laptop: just to be sure, i need to backup it away from phone for safety. I need your lists anyway. RzR | 00:18 |
| RzR | Custodian, http://rzr.online.fr/r/http://repo.pub.meego.com/MeeGo:/1.2:/Apps/MeeGo_1.2_standard/ | 00:19 |
| coderus | RzR: btw is it same with skeiron mirror? | 00:19 |
| RzR | I havent a list of closed source software | 00:19 |
| RzR | coderus, yes should be | 00:19 |
| RzR | you can use both | 00:20 |
| RzR | skeiron used mine as source | 00:20 |
| RzR | for part of it | 00:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | coderus: you want list of apps i bought? i'll try to prepare one when i have free time. | 00:20 |
| coderus | okay, i'm just getting many of packages from skeirom's mirror of your repo now :D | 00:21 |
| coderus | and moving it to my trusted repo :D | 00:21 |
| RzR | so you got enough to be busy for upcoming summer | 00:21 |
| Custodian | not rpm but deb packages for harmattan needed | 00:21 |
| Custodian | RzR: ^ | 00:21 |
| RzR | yes | 00:21 |
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| coderus | ZogG_laptop: all of preferred apps from store we can use after store closing | 00:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: btw why do you want to suppor sailfish ? | 00:21 |
| RzR | http://mirror.lxer.com/harmattan/home/rzr/var/cache/url/http/repo.pub.meego.com/MeeGo:/1.2:/Harmattan:/Apps/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard/ | 00:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | i mean on openrepos | 00:22 |
| Custodian | ZogG_laptop: why not? :-D | 00:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | coderus: mostly i bought games :) | 00:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: for 2 reasons | 00:22 |
| coderus | just for fun, afaik | 00:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | 1)they are not dead yet | 00:22 |
| Custodian | 1) indeed | 00:22 |
| Custodian | :-D | 00:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | 2)they refused to get harmattan's obs backup to their one before it was closed :( | 00:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: _yet_ is a key though | 00:23 |
| coderus | well, good night, see ya. | 00:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | coderus: night | 00:24 |
| Custodian | pff, i guess jolla will live as long as harmattan now :) | 00:24 |
| Custodian | atleast 2-3 years even with single phone model | 00:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | thp: how is it there btw ? :) hope it wouldn't interfier with your own projects (both closed and opensource) for n900/n9/bb10 | 00:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: harmattan dind't live at all | 00:25 |
| RzR | btw arent you reinventing the wheel if we compare openrepo to appsformeego ? | 00:25 |
| Custodian | key is to support the growing community, as there is no any single place to host apps. as most of apps will be ported, harmattan and sailfish version will co-exists | 00:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | the after death kicking and community efforts are not the same as life of supported OS | 00:25 |
| RzR | ZogG_laptop, what | 00:25 |
| RzR | <ZogG_laptop> 2)they refused to get harmattan's obs backup to their one before it was closed :( ? | 00:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | RzR: as far as i saw on one of maemo meetings there were questions about getting obs with jolla together | 00:26 |
| Custodian | and same functions on same app on different platforms (-: openrepos provides app platform for that | 00:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | which was nt turned down straight but in aa polite politition way | 00:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: why not bb10/ubuntu_touch/tizen/maemo then? | 00:27 |
| RzR | and wphone too | 00:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | RzR: you cna't compare 2 of them as appsformeego is no more | 00:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | RzR: man, watch the language. don't tell «W»-word here | 00:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | there are little linuxiods here | 00:28 |
| RzR | but i would expect that openrepo to include what appformeego was able to | 00:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | RzR: like? | 00:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | OBS was more of libs in a package | 00:29 |
| Custodian | ZogG_laptop: maemo have full ecosystem around with all repos and stuff, they dont lack any support after migration. if tizen will start, it can be added with 2 clicks :) | 00:29 |
| RzR | i would hope to have those apps at least | 00:29 |
| RzR | and client | 00:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: btw would you have something like mainstream repos? where i as publisher can push to ? | 00:29 |
| Custodian | there will be aggregators and "trusted" repos | 00:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | RzR: client is WIP | 00:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | aggregators? | 00:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | aligators :) | 00:30 |
| RzR | is there a rss feed too ? | 00:30 |
| Custodian | persons who pull apps for repos, control them, approves pushes from devs | 00:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | RzR: yes, one to replace google reader :P | 00:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: oh, you mean moderators | 00:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | and no vote system? | 00:31 |
| Custodian | moderators will control content, comments, stuff | 00:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think it's better to have 3 repos | 00:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | unstable, current, stable | 00:31 |
| Custodian | its weird and i dont like that system | 00:31 |
| Custodian | :-D | 00:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | where unstable is bleeding edge, unchecked software | 00:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | current is checked and working but not approved by everyone | 00:32 |
| Custodian | the main problem with that is conflicts with same packages | 00:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | and stable is most tested | 00:32 |
| Custodian | like coderus builds wazzap and tgalal do | 00:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | and obv it will go unstable->current->stable | 00:32 |
| Custodian | same wazzap_0.9.20~nightly but which one to choose? | 00:32 |
| RzR | <ZogG_laptop> i think it's better to have 3 repos | 00:33 |
| Custodian | so there will be just trusted repo | 00:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: i don't see the problem at all | 00:33 |
| RzR | it makes sense if pple do report issue | 00:33 |
| Custodian | and they dont, thats the point | 00:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: you have wazapp and wazapp-coderus that has conflict | 00:33 |
| RzR | unsure there is a strong base ... | 00:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | same as in all distros | 00:33 |
| Custodian | and why not wazzap and wazzap-tgalal? | 00:33 |
| RzR | didnt got lot of feedback for my fool repo | 00:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: because tgalal is original one | 00:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's master one | 00:34 |
| Custodian | and how do the machine know who is the original? | 00:34 |
| RzR | it I have an advise is to learn from the past | 00:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: you can switch it after that if for example one is not supported for X weeks | 00:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: the first one is original one | 00:34 |
| Custodian | pff, that stupid - no updates because of lack of updates, and fresh versions which crashes | 00:35 |
| Custodian | :) | 00:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: i think devs are grown ups enuf to figure it out | 00:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: i didn;t say no updates because of lack of updates | 00:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | if you have X and X-vasyapupkin package | 00:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | and vasya is not original but working hard | 00:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | and creating bug fixes | 00:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | for more than a year | 00:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | and X is not updated for a year | 00:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | X would be deprecated | 00:36 |
| Custodian | you cant remove package inside repo | 00:36 |
| Custodian | it will break the dependencies etc etc | 00:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | yes but it would make salad | 00:36 |
| Custodian | so there will be just "trusted" repos: | 00:37 |
| Custodian | the role for aggregators is to hold(and maintain) an trusted repository - like you did on meego.obs with you repo. | 00:37 |
| Custodian | trusted repo can be ruled by several aggregators. | 00:37 |
| Custodian | developer uploads app. it is added to his personal repo. then aggregators check something(like if app is worth to be on this repo) and attach app to repo. aggregator does not reupload the debs/tars. same app is used. | 00:37 |
| Custodian | when developer updates his app with newer version, it is pushed inside his repo, and trusted repo (after approving by aggregator) | 00:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | i saw that with aor in arch | 00:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's such a mess | 00:37 |
| Custodian | RzR: rss for apps: http://openrepos.net/rss/apps | 00:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: the role of aggregators are is to be just humans with some power :) which means different points of views can change things | 00:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | community driven repos are not moderated but «maintainerated» | 00:38 |
| Custodian | dont agree - create own trusted repo, maintain, be cool and users will use it | 00:38 |
| Custodian | ZogG_laptop: who promotes packages from unstable to stable and to current? | 00:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | i want X app from repo 1 and Y from repo 2 but both 1 and 2 have Z app which would coz conflict and bring us back to why not to create main repo | 00:39 |
| Custodian | no it would not. | 00:39 |
| RzR | thx | 00:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: so the difference between your repos and my own repo on other site is ... no difference just url of all yours is same :) | 00:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: voters, testers | 00:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: check how maemo works | 00:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | garage | 00:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | check how gentoo/funtoo works | 00:40 |
| Custodian | if you want app X1 and Y2 you have options: 1) create mixed repos which will include only packages YOU want. 2) subscribe directly to developers | 00:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | 2 last are huge eosystems | 00:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | and it's source based so there we have more conflicts and problems but they are resolved | 00:41 |
| Custodian | ZogG_laptop: i know that gentoo is, and it works in other way | 00:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: it doesn't have voters i know but they have stable unstable hard masked | 00:42 |
| RzR | looks like a long evening is going on | 00:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | and there is difference between how gentoo works(with all shitty politics right now) and how it should(check funtoo) | 00:42 |
| Custodian | you cannot pull your own glibc version to stable. you use overlay. mask unmask = mixed (trusted) repos here | 00:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: i don't use overlays for exact same reasons | 00:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | i use own local portage | 00:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | as i don't want to update all the shit from overlay for one app | 00:43 |
| Custodian | all packages are masked here, until you subscribe to repo (unmask them). | 00:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | but then i lose the updates for that package and need manually update local portage | 00:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | which is actually same as just downloadingd debs by following author on twitter or github/gitorious | 00:44 |
| Custodian | if you want X1, Y2 but not Y1, you create Z = X1 + Y2 | 00:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | so we lose point of centrilized reppo | 00:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | repo* | 00:44 |
| Custodian | openrepos is not central repository | 00:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: and funtoo works kinda different | 00:45 |
| Custodian | it's an ecosystem where packages can be mixed (will be shortly) into your own repository | 00:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | you need to check what is flora and how you cna easily merge your what ever package to portage(in case you would support it) | 00:45 |
| Custodian | that's the point all devs upload sources/debs/rpms to same place | 00:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | same url | 00:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | place is not the same | 00:46 |
| Custodian | place is the same, you just dont listen to me | 00:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | i do i don't understand | 00:46 |
| Custodian | you cherry-pick packages you need | 00:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | how is me mixing repos by creating my own (meaning uploading stuff by myself) is an answer | 00:47 |
| Custodian | or subscribe to lists that some one already builded | 00:47 |
| Custodian | you personal repo isnt the same as mixed | 00:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | and this mixed supports updates of certain package? | 00:47 |
| Custodian | i'll draw a chart to make the whole concept more observable | 00:47 |
| Custodian | yes! | 00:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | and what about deps and conflicts? | 00:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | i mean when i X needs Y as dep from version 0.5 | 00:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | or when from version 0.6 it can't co-exist with Y | 00:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | i would need to resolve those one? | 00:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | or what? | 00:49 |
| Custodian | this is same as this packages are in a single repo | 00:49 |
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| Custodian | if you want x + y installed, X whatever, Y<0.6. | 00:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | in single repo maintainer/developer who wants to promote is responsible to resolve | 00:49 |
| Custodian | apt resolve that for you | 00:49 |
| Custodian | lol, no | 00:50 |
| Custodian | check any repo, lots of stuff cannot be installed in a time | 00:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | while here i decided to follow(asn assuming i'm not that linux-tech) i would get confused while dev would say "just add my repo or gtfo" | 00:50 |
| Custodian | you want specific version - conflicts are resolved, or not | 00:50 |
| Custodian | its very specific situation. | 00:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | specific version would resolve, but how do i know that in version 0.7 in two weeks it would be fixed? | 00:51 |
| Custodian | core packages are same. if you override them with others - it's up to you to find solution | 00:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | or if i don't know about conflict as well as maintainer who added it and it actually installed and bricked half of my phone | 00:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | that's why stable/unstable repos are always been there in any distro | 00:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | you always have alpha/beta/public :) | 00:52 |
| Custodian | we got to the start of discussion - who will promote apps from unstable to stable? | 00:53 |
| Custodian | (who should click the button "promote")? | 00:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: it's not specific. it might be if i'm hacker, but if i'm user who just likes your and coderus stuff and didn't think that one of his packages can break one of your others . that's where it may coz problem especially when it's one of the system packages which i saw on TMO and screenshots were awesome so i just copy pasted url | 00:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | url=command* | 00:54 |
| Custodian | thats not a problem of repository organization | 00:54 |
| Custodian | you can copypaste rm-rf very same way | 00:55 |
| Custodian | answer the question - who should click the button "promote"? | 00:55 |
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| Custodian | :) | 00:55 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: i'm not saying «fuck your idea — mine is better». i'm saying there is reason why distros uses that, and if you want your way - think about certain problems and solutions as there would be. maybe you would find way to resolve that as well | 00:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'm giving you critics not in a bad way — but so you could be aware | 00:56 |
| Custodian | i understand that approach. ok. imagine i use it. who will click the button "promote" | 00:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: those community publishers and with hope users | 00:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | for example it worked in apps4meego | 00:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | we have likes in n9apps site | 00:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's not that hard | 00:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | especially if we would add reminder with notification for apps and options to be testers for not publishers | 00:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | as well as publishers are friends with publishers and they actually like to help each oother and tests each others apps | 00:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | but anyway i have something important to us | 00:58 |
| Custodian | 5 likes = promote. ok. App have 2 pages. "me", "he". 5 likes when users used app like "me,me,he,me". and works as expected. all are happy. app promotes to stable. 2 weeks later i download it and use like that "me,he,he,he" and phone is bricked | 00:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | with all my whining here, i still think that you huys actually done great job and for sure more than i or anybody here :) | 00:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: tha't why we have 3 repos and it can happen always, that's why there would be downgrade to unstable way | 01:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | antipromote | 01:00 |
| Custodian | i have already considered different approaches here, and mixed repos are the best way. as there will be "beta repos" by developer with small amount of testers, "new apps by ZogG" where you pull all apps you want. and "tested apps by ZogG" where you pull only high rated apps (not your apps, but from openrepos, from any developer you like) | 01:01 |
| Custodian | you dont need repos. you need lists of subscribtions | 01:01 |
| Custodian | you either trust developer, or you dont | 01:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't trust anyone :) | 01:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: btw i'll try to find latest version of imgrup and upload it | 01:02 |
| Custodian | developer creates lists "DANGER AHTUNG DONT INSTALL, only coderus can install this" and "cool apps with ponyies" | 01:02 |
| Custodian | which one you prefer? | 01:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | i want to make update and changes by lack of time and motivation :\ | 01:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: first one | 01:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | human nature | 01:02 |
| Custodian | (- | 01:02 |
| Custodian | : | 01:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: btw http://www.ponyos.org/ | 01:03 |
| Custodian | but i think you got my point :) | 01:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | yeah but noone reads it | 01:03 |
| Custodian | i'll draw an scheme tomorrow :-D | 01:03 |
| Custodian | more rainbows and icecream | 01:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: ok. spokoinoi nochi :) zavtra rabota :( | 01:03 |
| Custodian | same here | 01:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | :( | 01:04 |
| Custodian | ;) | 01:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | :(( | 01:04 |
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| ZogG_laptop | bef0rd_ will take it from here. he is night shift | 01:05 |
| bef0rd_ | o/ | 01:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | :) | 01:05 |
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| ZogG_laptop | bef0rd_: openrepos.org | 01:05 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: or what's the link | 01:05 |
| bef0rd_ | yep already got my account | 01:05 |
| bef0rd_ | :) | 01:05 |
| Custodian | hey1 i wanna get some sleep either! | 01:05 |
| Custodian | openrepos.net | 01:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | bef0rd_: i'll add you to ignore list :) | 01:06 |
| Custodian | Open Repositories Network | 01:06 |
| Custodian | Network means mixing! | 01:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | openrepos.su | 01:06 |
| Custodian | :D | 01:06 |
| bef0rd_ | I'll be publishing the updated Pocket app there tonight | 01:06 |
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| Custodian | pick packages, mix into repository and some corelibs and wuala, your phone is bricked! | 01:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | bef0rd_: i'll publish the source of you there as bef0rd-0.1-alpha-rc1 | 01:07 |
| Custodian | thats our slogan! | 01:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: stop jumping :) | 01:07 |
| Custodian | no sources yet allowed, only binary distribution | 01:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | bef0rd_: talk to itsnotabigtruck, tell me at the morning what's new with him :) | 01:07 |
| bef0rd_ | he was on vacation last time I saw him | 01:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | he got back afaik and have a job already :) | 01:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | anyway night guys | 01:08 |
| Custodian | \o | 01:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | 0/ | 01:08 |
| bef0rd_ | night | 01:10 |
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| valdur55 | coderus: I installed your system-ui-widgets package and this lagg bug after first use of system-ui is gone. | 19:45 |
| valdur55 | Screen orientation widget is enabled :) | 19:46 |
| valdur55 | Interesting guide for debian chroot on android: http://wiki.debian.org/ChrootOnAndroid | 19:50 |
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| coderus | valdur55: alarm snooze bug? | 21:27 |
| coderus | Custodian: btw, you cant brick phone by having modded corelibs on any repository :D | 21:27 |
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| valdur55 | really? Not just malf? | 21:32 |
| valdur55 | coderus: alarm snooze bug was different. | 21:32 |
| valdur55 | One bug was with phone normal start. | 21:33 |
| valdur55 | And then after first click to system-ui caused lagg for some time | 21:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | Custodian: coderus sup | 21:40 |
| coderus | valdur55: its same bug ;) | 21:43 |
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| ZogG_laptop | it's not a bug it's a feature | 21:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: ping | 21:43 |
| coderus | valdur55: Custodian: ZogG_laptop: even modded corelibs in repos, nobody is increasing packages versions, you wont'get any updates until manually install it | 21:44 |
| coderus | ZogG_laptop: its a bug. it was bad idea to have worsk thread-locking code in system-ui plugin :D | 21:45 |
| coderus | ZogG_laptop: it's why i created system-ui-unrestricted-server | 21:45 |
| coderus | ZogG_laptop: i'll remake all unrestricted extensions on QML, and it will be just UI and easy gconf/dbus layer. All main code in unrestricted-server | 21:46 |
| coderus | and it wont lag anymore anytime :) | 21:47 |
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| valdur55 | coderus: nice to hear that! | 23:36 |
| valdur55 | leio, sup | 23:36 |
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