IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2013-07-09

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coderussure. regular repository.00:09
coderusalso check my trusted repo.
ZogG_laptopcoderus: btw your transted repo would conflict with cetain packages00:11
coderusRzR: i think need to move your "hard" stuff like fuse and so, usig extended credentials to Trusted repository to automatically install it with
ZogG_laptopi mean if i want to have only certain packages and not replace all system00:11
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RzRCustodian, i have those apps's sources hosted on appsformeego00:12
coderusZogG_laptop: dont'worry, i'm not increasing version, you will not get any updates notifications about system packages.00:12
coderusyou can reinstall them manuall only, if want00:12
RzRbtw what is planned for nokia store ?00:13
ZogG_laptopRzR: to delete it from face of the earth00:13
coderusZogG_laptop: yeah :)00:13
RzRZogG_laptop, we should backup it before :)00:13
ZogG_laptopRzR: backup it to /dev/null00:14
RzRno way00:14
RzRthere are lot of good apps there00:14
coderusRzR: arent we already have all store apps installed/bought?)00:14
ZogG_laptoptogether with nokia00:14
RzRcoderus, ?00:14
RzRwe ?00:14
coderusRzR: i have hugr AptBackup from osa00:15
ZogG_laptopi bought few games/apps and mostly only to support few devs00:15
RzRcoderus, osa ?00:15
coderusdamn huge!00:15
ZogG_laptopas most good apps are free and opensource00:15
coderusnokia store source00:15
ZogG_laptopcoderus: so i know whom i need to talk to if i reflash my n9 one more time :)00:15
RzRhow many debs ?00:16
CustodianRzR: and what about debs from afm? or only sources?00:16
ZogG_laptopover9000 :)00:17
coderusRzR: ZogG_laptop; write me a list of apps from store, i'll check if i bought/cached it and will cache if not00:17
ZogG_laptopCustodian: or you are basil, privet :)00:17
RzRCustodian, i have debs too00:17
ZogG_laptopcoderus: no need now. if i get errors on re-download or stuck i'll ping you over twitter00:18
CustodianRzR: for user friendly apps with UI, this is a preffered way now :)00:18
coderusZogG_laptop: just to be sure, i need to backup it away from phone for safety. I need your lists anyway. RzR00:18
coderusRzR: btw is it same with skeiron mirror?00:19
RzRI havent a list of closed source software00:19
RzRcoderus, yes should be00:19
RzRyou can use both00:20
RzRskeiron used mine as source00:20
RzRfor part of it00:20
ZogG_laptopcoderus: you want list of apps i bought? i'll try to prepare one when i have free time.00:20
coderusokay, i'm just getting many of packages from  skeirom's mirror of your repo now :D00:21
coderusand moving it to my trusted repo :D00:21
RzRso you got enough to be busy for upcoming summer00:21
Custodiannot rpm but deb packages for harmattan needed00:21
CustodianRzR: ^00:21
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coderusZogG_laptop: all of preferred apps from store we can use after store closing00:21
ZogG_laptopCustodian: btw why do you want to suppor sailfish ?00:21
ZogG_laptopi mean on openrepos00:22
CustodianZogG_laptop: why not? :-D00:22
ZogG_laptopcoderus: mostly i bought games :)00:22
ZogG_laptopCustodian: for 2 reasons00:22
coderusjust for fun, afaik00:22
ZogG_laptop1)they are not dead yet00:22
Custodian1) indeed00:22
ZogG_laptop2)they refused to get harmattan's obs backup to their one before it was closed :(00:23
ZogG_laptopCustodian: _yet_ is a key though00:23
coderuswell, good night, see ya.00:23
ZogG_laptopcoderus: night00:24
Custodianpff, i guess jolla will live as long as harmattan now :)00:24
Custodianatleast 2-3 years even with single phone model00:24
ZogG_laptopthp: how is it there btw ? :) hope it wouldn't interfier with your own projects (both closed and opensource) for n900/n9/bb1000:25
ZogG_laptopCustodian: harmattan dind't live at all00:25
RzRbtw arent you reinventing the wheel if we compare openrepo to appsformeego ?00:25
Custodiankey is to support the growing community, as there is no any single place to host apps. as most of apps will be ported, harmattan and sailfish version will co-exists00:25
ZogG_laptopthe after death kicking and community efforts are not the same as life of supported OS00:25
RzRZogG_laptop, what00:25
RzR<ZogG_laptop> 2)they refused to get harmattan's obs backup to their one before it was closed :( ?00:25
ZogG_laptopRzR: as far as i saw on one of maemo meetings there were questions about getting obs with jolla together00:26
Custodianand same functions on same app on different platforms (-: openrepos provides app platform for that00:26
ZogG_laptopwhich was nt turned down straight but in aa polite politition way00:26
ZogG_laptopCustodian: why not bb10/ubuntu_touch/tizen/maemo then?00:27
RzRand wphone too00:27
ZogG_laptopRzR: you cna't compare 2 of them as appsformeego is no more00:27
ZogG_laptopRzR: man, watch the language. don't tell «W»-word here00:28
ZogG_laptopthere are little linuxiods here00:28
RzRbut i would expect that openrepo to include what appformeego was able to00:28
ZogG_laptopRzR: like?00:28
ZogG_laptopOBS was more of libs in a package00:29
CustodianZogG_laptop: maemo have full ecosystem around with all repos and stuff, they dont lack any support after migration. if tizen will start, it can be added with 2 clicks :)00:29
RzRi would hope to have those apps at least00:29
RzRand client00:29
ZogG_laptopCustodian: btw would you have something like mainstream repos? where i as publisher can push to ?00:29
Custodianthere will be aggregators and "trusted" repos00:29
ZogG_laptopRzR: client is WIP00:29
ZogG_laptopaligators :)00:30
RzRis there a rss feed too ?00:30
Custodianpersons who pull apps for repos, control them, approves pushes from devs00:30
ZogG_laptopRzR: yes, one to replace google reader :P00:30
ZogG_laptopCustodian: oh, you mean moderators00:30
ZogG_laptopand no vote system?00:31
Custodianmoderators will control content, comments, stuff00:31
ZogG_laptopi think it's better to have 3 repos00:31
ZogG_laptopunstable, current, stable00:31
Custodianits weird and i dont like that system00:31
ZogG_laptopwhere unstable is bleeding edge, unchecked software00:31
ZogG_laptopcurrent is checked and working but not approved by everyone00:32
Custodianthe main problem with that is conflicts with same packages00:32
ZogG_laptopand stable is most tested00:32
Custodianlike coderus builds wazzap and tgalal do00:32
ZogG_laptopand obv it will go unstable->current->stable00:32
Custodiansame wazzap_0.9.20~nightly but which one to choose?00:32
RzR<ZogG_laptop> i think it's better to have 3 repos00:33
Custodianso there will be just trusted repo00:33
ZogG_laptopCustodian: i don't see the problem at all00:33
RzRit makes sense if pple do report issue00:33
Custodianand they dont, thats the point00:33
ZogG_laptopCustodian: you have wazapp and wazapp-coderus that has conflict00:33
RzRunsure there is a strong base ...00:33
ZogG_laptopsame as in all distros00:33
Custodianand why not wazzap and wazzap-tgalal?00:33
RzRdidnt got lot of feedback for my fool repo00:34
ZogG_laptopCustodian: because tgalal is original one00:34
ZogG_laptopit's master one00:34
Custodianand how do the machine know who is the original?00:34
RzRit I have an advise is to learn from the past00:34
ZogG_laptopCustodian: you can switch it after that if for example one is not supported for X weeks00:34
ZogG_laptopCustodian: the first one is original one00:34
Custodianpff, that stupid - no updates because of lack of updates, and fresh versions which crashes00:35
ZogG_laptopCustodian: i think devs are grown ups enuf to figure it out00:35
ZogG_laptopCustodian: i didn;t say no updates because of lack of updates00:35
ZogG_laptopif you have X and X-vasyapupkin package00:35
ZogG_laptopand vasya is not original but working hard00:36
ZogG_laptopand creating bug fixes00:36
ZogG_laptopfor more than a year00:36
ZogG_laptopand X is not updated for a year00:36
ZogG_laptopX would be deprecated00:36
Custodianyou cant remove package inside repo00:36
Custodianit will break the dependencies etc etc00:36
ZogG_laptopyes but it would make salad00:36
Custodianso there will be just "trusted" repos:00:37
Custodianthe role for aggregators is to hold(and maintain) an trusted repository - like you did on meego.obs with you repo.00:37
Custodiantrusted repo can be ruled by several aggregators.00:37
Custodiandeveloper uploads app. it is added to his personal repo. then aggregators check something(like if app is worth to be on this repo) and attach app to repo. aggregator does not reupload the debs/tars. same app is used.00:37
Custodianwhen developer updates his app with newer version, it is pushed inside his repo, and trusted repo (after approving by aggregator)00:37
ZogG_laptopi saw that with aor in arch00:37
ZogG_laptopit's such a mess00:37
CustodianRzR: rss for apps:
ZogG_laptopCustodian: the role of aggregators are is to be just humans with some power :) which means different points of views can change things00:37
ZogG_laptopcommunity driven repos are not moderated but «maintainerated»00:38
Custodiandont agree - create own trusted repo, maintain, be cool and users will use it00:38
CustodianZogG_laptop: who promotes packages from unstable to stable and to current?00:38
ZogG_laptopi want X app from repo 1 and Y from repo 2 but both 1 and 2 have Z app which would coz conflict and bring us back to why not to create main repo00:39
Custodianno it would not.00:39
ZogG_laptopCustodian: so the difference between your repos and my own repo on other site is ... no difference just url of all yours is same :)00:40
ZogG_laptopCustodian: voters, testers00:40
ZogG_laptopCustodian: check how maemo works00:40
ZogG_laptopcheck how gentoo/funtoo works00:40
Custodianif you want app X1 and Y2 you have options: 1) create mixed repos which will include only packages YOU want. 2) subscribe directly to developers00:40
ZogG_laptop2 last are huge eosystems00:41
ZogG_laptopand it's source based so there we have more conflicts and problems but they are resolved00:41
CustodianZogG_laptop: i know that gentoo is, and it works in other way00:41
ZogG_laptopCustodian: it doesn't have voters i know but they have stable unstable hard masked00:42
RzRlooks like a long evening is going on00:42
ZogG_laptopand there is difference between how gentoo works(with all shitty politics right now) and how it should(check funtoo)00:42
Custodianyou cannot pull your own glibc version to stable. you use overlay. mask unmask = mixed (trusted) repos here00:42
ZogG_laptopCustodian: i don't use overlays for exact same reasons00:43
ZogG_laptopi use own local portage00:43
ZogG_laptopas i don't want to update all the shit from overlay for one app00:43
Custodianall packages are masked here, until you subscribe to repo (unmask them).00:43
ZogG_laptopbut then i lose the updates for that package and need manually update local portage00:43
ZogG_laptopwhich is actually same as just downloadingd debs by following author on twitter or github/gitorious00:44
Custodianif you want X1, Y2 but not Y1, you create Z = X1 + Y200:44
ZogG_laptopso we lose point of centrilized reppo00:44
Custodianopenrepos is not central repository00:44
ZogG_laptopCustodian: and funtoo works kinda different00:45
Custodianit's an ecosystem where packages can be mixed (will be shortly) into your own repository00:45
ZogG_laptopyou need to check what is flora and how you cna easily merge your what ever package to portage(in case you would support it)00:45
Custodianthat's the point all devs upload sources/debs/rpms to same place00:45
ZogG_laptopsame url00:46
ZogG_laptopplace is not the same00:46
Custodianplace is the same, you just dont listen to me00:46
ZogG_laptopi do i don't understand00:46
Custodianyou cherry-pick packages you need00:46
ZogG_laptophow is me mixing repos by creating my own (meaning uploading stuff by myself) is an answer00:47
Custodianor subscribe to lists that some one already builded00:47
Custodianyou personal repo isnt the same as mixed00:47
ZogG_laptopand this mixed supports updates of certain package?00:47
Custodiani'll draw a chart to make the whole concept more observable00:47
ZogG_laptopand what about deps and conflicts?00:48
ZogG_laptopi mean when i X needs Y as dep from version 0.500:48
ZogG_laptopor when from version 0.6 it can't co-exist with Y00:48
ZogG_laptopi would need to resolve those one?00:49
ZogG_laptopor what?00:49
Custodianthis is same as this packages are in a single repo00:49
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Custodianif you want x + y installed, X whatever, Y<0.6.00:49
ZogG_laptopin single repo maintainer/developer who wants to promote is responsible to resolve00:49
Custodianapt resolve that for you00:49
Custodianlol, no00:50
Custodiancheck any repo, lots of stuff cannot be installed in a time00:50
ZogG_laptopwhile here i decided to follow(asn assuming i'm not that linux-tech) i would get confused while dev would say "just add my repo or gtfo"00:50
Custodianyou want specific version - conflicts are resolved, or not00:50
Custodianits very specific situation.00:51
ZogG_laptopspecific version would resolve, but how do i know that in version 0.7 in two weeks it would be fixed?00:51
Custodiancore packages are same. if you override them with others - it's up to you to find solution00:51
ZogG_laptopor if i don't know about conflict as well as maintainer who added it and it actually installed and bricked half of my phone00:51
ZogG_laptopthat's why stable/unstable repos are always been there in any distro00:52
ZogG_laptopyou always have alpha/beta/public :)00:52
Custodianwe got to the start of discussion - who will promote apps from unstable to stable?00:53
Custodian(who should click the button "promote")?00:53
ZogG_laptopCustodian: it's not specific. it might be if i'm hacker, but if i'm user who just likes your and coderus stuff and didn't think that one of his packages can break one of your others . that's where it may coz problem especially when it's one of the system packages which i saw on TMO and screenshots were awesome so i just copy pasted url00:54
Custodianthats not a problem of repository organization00:54
Custodianyou can copypaste rm-rf very same way00:55
Custodiananswer the question - who should click the button "promote"?00:55
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ZogG_laptopCustodian: i'm not saying «fuck your idea — mine is better». i'm saying there is reason why distros uses that, and if you want your way - think about certain problems and solutions as there would be. maybe you would find way to resolve that as well00:55
ZogG_laptopi'm giving you critics not in a bad way — but so you could be aware00:56
Custodiani understand that approach. ok. imagine i use it. who will click the button "promote"00:56
ZogG_laptopCustodian: those community publishers and with hope users00:56
ZogG_laptopfor example it worked in apps4meego00:57
ZogG_laptopwe have likes in n9apps site00:57
ZogG_laptopit's not that hard00:57
ZogG_laptopespecially if we would add reminder with notification for apps and options to be testers for not publishers00:57
ZogG_laptopas well as publishers are friends with publishers and they actually like to help each oother and tests each others apps00:58
ZogG_laptopbut anyway i have something important to us00:58
Custodian5 likes = promote. ok. App have 2 pages. "me", "he". 5 likes when users used app like "me,me,he,me". and works as expected. all are happy. app promotes to stable. 2 weeks later i download it and use like that "me,he,he,he" and phone is bricked00:58
ZogG_laptopwith all my whining here, i still think that you huys actually done great job and for sure more than i or anybody here :)00:59
ZogG_laptopCustodian: tha't why we have 3 repos and it can happen always, that's why there would be downgrade to unstable way01:00
Custodiani have already considered different approaches here, and mixed repos are the best way. as there will be "beta repos" by developer with small amount of testers, "new apps by ZogG" where you pull all apps you want. and "tested apps by ZogG" where you pull only high rated apps (not your apps, but from openrepos, from any developer you like)01:01
Custodianyou dont need repos. you need lists of subscribtions01:01
Custodianyou either trust developer, or you dont01:01
ZogG_laptopi don't trust anyone :)01:01
ZogG_laptopCustodian: btw i'll try to find latest version of imgrup and upload it01:02
Custodiandeveloper creates lists "DANGER AHTUNG DONT INSTALL, only coderus can install this" and "cool apps with ponyies"01:02
Custodianwhich one you prefer?01:02
ZogG_laptopi want to make update and changes by lack of time and motivation :\01:02
ZogG_laptopCustodian: first one01:02
ZogG_laptophuman nature01:02
ZogG_laptopCustodian: btw
Custodianbut i think you got my point :)01:03
ZogG_laptopyeah but noone reads it01:03
Custodiani'll draw an scheme tomorrow :-D01:03
Custodianmore rainbows and icecream01:03
ZogG_laptopCustodian: ok. spokoinoi nochi :) zavtra rabota :(01:03
Custodiansame here01:03
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ZogG_laptopbef0rd_ will take it from here. he is night shift01:05
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ZogG_laptopbef0rd_: openrepos.org01:05
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ZogG_laptopCustodian: or what's the link01:05
bef0rd_yep already got my account01:05
Custodianhey1 i wanna get some sleep either!01:05
ZogG_laptopbef0rd_: i'll add you to ignore list :)01:06
CustodianOpen Repositories Network01:06
CustodianNetwork means mixing!01:06
bef0rd_I'll be publishing the updated Pocket app there tonight01:06
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Custodianpick packages, mix into repository and some corelibs and wuala, your phone is bricked!01:07
ZogG_laptopbef0rd_: i'll publish the source of you there as bef0rd-0.1-alpha-rc101:07
Custodianthats our slogan!01:07
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: stop jumping :)01:07
Custodianno sources yet allowed, only binary distribution01:07
ZogG_laptopbef0rd_: talk to itsnotabigtruck, tell me at the morning what's new with him :)01:07
bef0rd_he was on vacation last time I saw him01:08
ZogG_laptophe got back afaik and have a job already :)01:08
ZogG_laptopanyway night guys01:08
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valdur55coderus: I installed your system-ui-widgets package and this lagg bug after first use of system-ui is gone.19:45
valdur55Screen orientation widget is enabled :)19:46
valdur55Interesting guide for debian chroot on android:
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coderusvaldur55: alarm snooze bug?21:27
coderusCustodian: btw, you cant brick phone by  having modded corelibs on any repository :D21:27
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valdur55really? Not just malf?21:32
valdur55coderus: alarm snooze bug was different.21:32
valdur55One bug was with phone normal start.21:33
valdur55And then after first click to system-ui caused lagg for some time21:33
ZogG_laptopCustodian: coderus sup21:40
coderusvaldur55: its same bug ;)21:43
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ZogG_laptopit's not a bug it's a feature21:43
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: ping21:43
coderusvaldur55: Custodian: ZogG_laptop: even modded corelibs in repos, nobody is increasing packages versions, you wont'get any updates until manually install it21:44
coderusZogG_laptop: its a bug. it was bad idea to have worsk thread-locking code in system-ui plugin :D21:45
coderusZogG_laptop: it's why i created system-ui-unrestricted-server21:45
coderusZogG_laptop: i'll remake all unrestricted extensions on QML, and it will be just UI and easy gconf/dbus layer. All main code in unrestricted-server21:46
coderusand it wont lag anymore anytime :)21:47
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valdur55coderus: nice to hear that!23:36
valdur55leio, sup23:36
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