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| * matti hugs ambv | 21:08 | |
| ambv | come on | 21:09 |
|---|---|---|
| ambv | we're all adults here | 21:09 |
| ambv | :D | 21:09 |
| matti | :-p | 21:13 |
| matti | I am sorry. | 21:13 |
| matti | Free hugs are very #ubuntu-uk thing. | 21:13 |
| matti | ;p | 21:13 |
| ambv | yup. admitting to use Ubuntu is somewhat similar to those AA meetings. | 21:15 |
| ambv | I'm matti and I'm an addict. | 21:15 |
| ambv | Hi matti. | 21:15 |
| matti | Emm. | 21:15 |
| matti | :( | 21:15 |
| matti | ambv: I am having a very bad day today ;/ | 21:15 |
| * mgedmin hugs matti | 21:15 | |
| matti | ambv: I think, in the new year I'll quit RIM and find something else. | 21:15 |
| * matti hugs mgedmin back | 21:16 | |
| ambv | matti: doesn't RIM log your chats? | 21:16 |
| ambv | :D | 21:16 |
| matti | ambv: No, but they now that I am unhappy. | 21:16 |
| matti | ambv: But as in every "corporate-alike" company, they don't give a monkey. | 21:17 |
| ambv | They give an ape. | 21:17 |
| matti | LOL | 21:17 |
| matti | Well, we can swap :) | 21:18 |
| ambv | Who says we can? | 21:18 |
| ambv | :D | 21:18 |
| matti | Heh. | 21:19 |
| matti | I have had a huge argue with one of people working here. | 21:19 |
| matti | He does not like Ruby nor Python. | 21:19 |
| matti | And he is about to ask me to re-write most of the software we have to Java. | 21:19 |
| matti | Its like... | 21:20 |
| matti | He lost his mind. | 21:20 |
| matti | The time and effort is just ... this is not feasible. | 21:20 |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 21:20 | |
| ambv | Does it work properly? | 21:20 |
| ambv | I guess if it would, it wouldn't be a problem now would it. | 21:21 |
| matti | It does. | 21:21 |
| ambv | So what is it? Maintenance issues? | 21:22 |
| _dboddie | Time to try Jython? | 21:22 |
| matti | No. | 21:22 |
| matti | He is an idiot. | 21:22 |
| ambv | Not enough Python code monkeys? | 21:22 |
| matti | That is the problem. | 21:22 |
| matti | If they ask me to write Java code I will quit. | 21:23 |
| matti | There is nothing on Earth which will make me to do this. | 21:23 |
| ambv | As you know, we have a HUGE problem with hiring competent Python programmers. | 21:23 |
| matti | ambv: Bigger companies don't really care. They employ low quality developers as well. | 21:24 |
| _dboddie | I think it's generally difficult to hire good people right now. | 21:24 |
| matti | ambv: As there is this stong belief that "he will catch-up eventually". | 21:24 |
| ambv | _dboddie: which is absurd, it should be easy in this economy | 21:24 |
| _dboddie | ambv: Sure, but remember that there are lots of people also looking for work who aren't all that good. | 21:25 |
| matti | I have to work with two straight-from-university blokes. | 21:25 |
| ambv | I guess the reality is probably quite harsh: most "computing scientists" produced nowadays are idiots. | 21:25 |
| matti | They are nice people, but they know next to nothing about engineering. | 21:25 |
| matti | ambv: Agree. | 21:25 |
| ambv | I'm afraid of that. | 21:26 |
| ambv | Remember my words. | 21:26 |
| ambv | Two or three major fuckups will happen. | 21:26 |
| ambv | By major I mean lost lives or massive amounts of money. | 21:26 |
| _dboddie | Welcome to corporate life. You need lots of people to write Powerpoint slides and present them to each other in meetings. | 21:27 |
| ambv | And then some jerks will come in and say: "we have to standardise this career path". | 21:27 |
| ambv | And it will become yet another "architect", "lawyer", "doctor" like job. | 21:27 |
| matti | When I had a chat with them about how virtual machines work and mentioned at some point that CPU is a sort-of VM, as it executes 8086-compatible (MMX, SSE, SSE2, etc) instruction set on the top of an microcode.. they told me that it is impossible. | 21:27 |
| ambv | With federal exams etc. | 21:27 |
| matti | I was like "what do they teach them at universities nowadays?!". | 21:27 |
| matti | ambv: You are right. | 21:28 |
| matti | _dboddie: So are you. | 21:29 |
| matti | My next company will not be a corporate. | 21:29 |
| matti | I hate such environment. | 21:29 |
| _dboddie | It's the lack of imagination that's really disappointing. | 21:29 |
| matti | _dboddie: As in the corporate world? | 21:30 |
| _dboddie | Yes, but not necessarily where you work. ;-) | 21:30 |
| matti | _dboddie: I would add "too much politics" to the list. | 21:30 |
| _dboddie | Although I think we're in the same "industry", unfortunately. | 21:31 |
| matti | bleh. | 21:31 |
| _dboddie | :-) | 21:31 |
| ambv | Dreamers. | 21:32 |
| ambv | :D | 21:32 |
| matti | :-p | 21:32 |
| matti | I wonder if the new year will be a good time to look for new job. | 21:33 |
| *** Aiste has quit IRC | 21:33 | |
| _dboddie | It has to be better than the start of 2009. | 21:34 |
| matti | I hope. | 21:35 |
| zeth | jobs hey | 21:40 |
| _dboddie | zeth: Are you hiring? | 21:40 |
| _dboddie | ;-) | 21:40 |
| zeth | hardly | 21:41 |
| zeth | it is like the fall of rome | 21:41 |
| zeth | the funding bodies are sitting on their hands | 21:41 |
| zeth | waiting out the recession | 21:41 |
| zeth | the public sector in UK is afraid of huge public spending cuts in future | 21:41 |
| zeth | so the funding bodies are not giving research groups cash | 21:41 |
| _dboddie | I thought the fall of Rome involved lots of decadence! | 21:41 |
| zeth | which means they are not giving me lots of cash | 21:42 |
| _dboddie | Hmm. No decadence for you, then. :-( | 21:42 |
| zeth | well depends how expensive it is ;) | 21:42 |
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| _dboddie | I see the PyCon organisers are living it up: http://pycon.blogspot.com/2009/11/behind-scenes-at-pycon-part-i-dessert.html | 21:43 |
| zeth | well we lived it up here I thought | 21:44 |
| zeth | all the organisers alseep on each other at the after-conference crew party | 21:44 |
| _dboddie | Was there a pastry chef involved? ;-) | 21:45 |
| zeth | asleep | 21:45 |
| zeth | erm | 21:45 |
| zeth | lots of cakes | 21:45 |
| _dboddie | What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas... | 21:45 |
| * matti hugs zeth | 21:45 | |
| * zeth smiles | 21:45 | |
| _dboddie | Sounds like the fall of Rome to me, anyway. :-) | 21:46 |
| ambv | zeth: would you mind a question about "zeth"? | 21:47 |
| zeth | No I suppose not | 21:51 |
| zeth | Ask away | 21:51 |
| zeth | matti, just been reading the trackback | 21:54 |
| zeth | converting your Python code to Java? | 21:54 |
| zeth | I would go for constructive dismissal, or work related cruelty | 21:54 |
| matti | zeth: Its not only that. | 21:56 |
| matti | zeth: I am not enjoying what I do anymore :/ | 21:56 |
| zeth | thats bad | 21:57 |
| zeth | I like what I do but there is not enough of it | 21:57 |
| ambv | zeth: I noticed during EuroPython that you're called zeth everywhere. Is that a serious action in order to divide between your community actions and personal life? Or is that something I don't understand? | 21:57 |
| zeth | I finished one project and was due to start another but the legal office is holding it up, which has made a mess of my job | 21:58 |
| matti | ambv: He is a spy. | 21:58 |
| ambv | he isn't | 21:58 |
| ambv | we spies know each other | 21:58 |
| zeth | ambv: exactly as you described | 21:59 |
| zeth | well I don't tend to use my last name anywhere really | 21:59 |
| zeth | I am like madonna, except without the pointy bra and legion of african babies | 21:59 |
| ambv | zeth: can you actually succeed in staying anonymous? | 22:00 |
| zeth | it is not so much anonymous as having my last name not used | 22:00 |
| zeth | which I fail at really | 22:00 |
| zeth | but I still try | 22:00 |
| zeth | one problem is that when I first started doing open source stuff, I posted to mailing lists using an email address with my last name in | 22:01 |
| zeth | so I had to take my lastname from all my email accounts | 22:01 |
| *** lac has joined #europython | 22:01 | |
| zeth | Another problem is that I put my last name in my GPG key | 22:01 |
| zeth | and the biggest problem is other people putting my last name online | 22:01 |
| ambv | yup, I agree. | 22:02 |
| ambv | is there a story behind your decision or did you just come up with it? | 22:02 |
| zeth | Well lots of reasons I suppose | 22:02 |
| zeth | firstly as a child and teenager, no one ever bothered to use my last name, wherever I have been I have always been the only Zeth | 22:03 |
| zeth | So my last name sounds a bit weird | 22:03 |
| zeth | I suppose also that my last name is the most boring thing in the world | 22:03 |
| ambv | Zeth "Dancing With The Stars" | 22:04 |
| zeth | yeah, that is more fun | 22:05 |
| zeth | on facebook I change my name every so often | 22:05 |
| zeth | completely confuses all the non geeks | 22:05 |
| zeth | they think I have really changed my name | 22:05 |
| zeth | as if facebook authenticates your name in any way | 22:05 |
| ambv | And this privacy thing puzzles me a bit. How do you feel does the lack of your last name strengthen your privacy? What actual hazards does it protect you from? | 22:07 |
| ambv | I'm curious because this approach is radical and fairly uncommon. | 22:08 |
| zeth | I suppose it doesn't really strengthen my privacy against a concerted attacker | 22:09 |
| zeth | I suppose I just prefer to brand myself as 'zeth', branding is probably the wrong word | 22:10 |
| ambv | "image" may be better | 22:10 |
| zeth | If I was called 'Bob' I probably wouldn't do this | 22:10 |
| zeth | but since zeth is farily unique | 22:10 |
| ambv | So "Zeth" is actually your first name? | 22:10 |
| zeth | I don't need other names | 22:10 |
| zeth | yeah | 22:11 |
| ambv | cool. | 22:11 |
| zeth | so it is not as innovate as you thought | 22:12 |
| ambv | my approach is radically different. | 22:12 |
| ambv | I'm fairly open in terms of what personal info I put online. Most of the time I fill every possible form box. | 22:12 |
| zeth | really innovatative would be to call myself something that is not my name | 22:12 |
| zeth | and insist on being called that | 22:12 |
| zeth | well I know someone that does that | 22:13 |
| zeth | a perl hacker who calls himself barbie | 22:13 |
| ambv | I know about "Why The Lucky Stiff". | 22:13 |
| ambv | He didn't actually succeed in hiding his privacy. In the end, some asshole dug through e-mail archives and connected his posts with other posts from the same IP addresses. | 22:14 |
| ambv | *hiding his identity | 22:15 |
| zeth | Well at EuroPython I was one of the main organisers, I wrote a lot of the website code and had access to the badge software | 22:16 |
| zeth | So my last name was easily omitted | 22:16 |
| zeth | although there is a patch in the speakers software that still puts me in the right place | 22:17 |
| zeth | since it was alphabetical by last name | 22:17 |
| ambv | LOL | 22:17 |
| zeth | When I first started on the internet, in the late 1990s, I had a proper alias | 22:18 |
| zeth | which I used everywhere | 22:18 |
| zeth | but eventually I dropped it | 22:18 |
| zeth | I thought it sounded too 'teenager-myspace-wannabee' | 22:19 |
| ambv | Yup, same with mine. | 22:19 |
| zeth | windows visual basic hacker | 22:19 |
| ambv | It was embarassing enough to be the phonetic version of Luke in Polish written from a (quasi-)English perspective. | 22:20 |
| ambv | I just dropped the vowels and it started to be just ksh. | 22:20 |
| ambv | But it turns out this is somewhat popular on every other place I needed a login at. | 22:21 |
| ambv | I also used Ambivalence or Ambivalent at times. | 22:21 |
| zeth | yeah, when I was first on IRC, it was under my alias, but some friend in the freenode staff reassigned zeth to me | 22:21 |
| zeth | it was taken by someone else | 22:21 |
| zeth | but someone perhaps dormant | 22:22 |
| ambv | :) | 22:22 |
| ambv | And so after yet another failure to register somewhere I just shortened it to ambv. | 22:22 |
| ambv | And still it is another unpronouncable nickname. | 22:22 |
| ambv | like ksh was. | 22:22 |
| ambv | especially in Polish communities. | 22:22 |
| zeth | that is pretty good, it is short and sounds natural-ish, at least until you get to the v | 22:22 |
| zeth | I would have considered ambi or ambe or suchlike | 22:23 |
| ambv | so how would you pronounce it? | 22:23 |
| zeth | ambu | 22:23 |
| zeth | ambi | 22:23 |
| zeth | amb-v | 22:23 |
| zeth | amb-vi | 22:23 |
| ambv | amb-vi LOL | 22:23 |
| zeth | I would pronounce it amb-vi | 22:23 |
| ambv | that touches my vi ninja spot. | 22:23 |
| zeth | the ambi was just a suggestion for a name | 22:23 |
| ambv | cool. | 22:23 |
| zeth | I would pronouce ambv as amb-vi | 22:23 |
| ambv | yup, ambi is actually more straight-forward but it looks kind of childish. | 22:24 |
| zeth | or I suppose amb-vee | 22:24 |
| ambv | bambi stuff. | 22:24 |
| ambv | :D | 22:24 |
| zeth | no I don't think so | 22:24 |
| ambv | amb-vee is actually neat. | 22:24 |
| ambv | http://www.google.pl/search?q=ambvee | 22:25 |
| ambv | LOL, and it doesn't exist | 22:25 |
| ambv | unfortunately, "ambv" is more common. | 22:26 |
| zeth | ambvee is also backwardly compatible with ambv | 22:27 |
| ambv | still, nowadays I just tend to use llanga for usernames which is L. Langa | 22:27 |
| zeth | well so is ambvi | 22:27 |
| ambv | llanga is for me yet another pronunciation puzzle | 22:27 |
| zeth | yeah | 22:28 |
| ambv | but it is practically only used by me everywhere | 22:28 |
| zeth | quite hard | 22:28 |
| ambv | Facebook was the first hit | 22:28 |
| ambv | where actually someone used that username | 22:28 |
| zeth | how about lukanga ? | 22:28 |
| ambv | couldn't believe it | 22:28 |
| ambv | http://www.facebook.com/llanga | 22:29 |
| zeth | I think ambvi is better than lukanga | 22:29 |
| ambv | and she's a babe | 22:29 |
| zeth | facebook requires six letters I think is it? | 22:29 |
| zeth | zeth was gone on twitter before I got there | 22:29 |
| zeth | and on launchpad | 22:30 |
| ambv | ambv too | 22:30 |
| zeth | so I went for zeth0 | 22:30 |
| ambv | TheRealZeth | 22:30 |
| zeth | lol | 22:30 |
| zeth | that would be good | 22:30 |
| ambv | TheZethYoureLookingFor | 22:30 |
| ambv | generally I guess the username namespace problem for every portal is somewhat stupid. | 22:31 |
| ambv | I have quite a variety of usernames and still try to remain cohesive at that. most people dont. | 22:32 |
| zeth | I have not set a permalink for facebook | 22:32 |
| ambv | which is why I most often provide as much information as I can, and search engines do like that as I've noticed. | 22:32 |
| matti | Facebook-- | 22:32 |
| zeth | indeed | 22:33 |
| zeth | del(Facebook) | 22:33 |
| zeth | I think Facebook sucks | 22:33 |
| zeth | I just keep my account open in case I every need to sell something | 22:33 |
| zeth | if I ever have a business selling things, I can help pimp it on facebook | 22:34 |
| zeth | I personally just like blogging | 22:34 |
| zeth | and IRC | 22:34 |
| zeth | IRC is better than facebook by far | 22:34 |
| zeth | except for this channel | 22:34 |
| zeth | since it has public logs | 22:34 |
| zeth | so one can't let their hair down completely, since this will end up in Google | 22:35 |
| * ambv waves to the camera | 22:35 | |
| ambv | or should I say "at the camera"? | 22:35 |
| zeth | Either I suppose | 22:35 |
| ambv | enlighten me | 22:36 |
| ambv | :) | 22:36 |
| zeth | so the RIM executives can find matti ;) | 22:36 |
| zeth | I am not sure if it is always logged or just when IRC meeting is on | 22:36 |
| ambv | #europython may be safer than #python I guess | 22:36 |
| zeth | I am banned from #python | 22:40 |
| zeth | One of the moderators was being extreme, so I questioned his actions, and he banned me too | 22:40 |
| zeth | they don't seem to keep reasons for banning or anyway to get unbanned | 22:40 |
| zeth | probably for the best, since I used to spent countless hours helping people with Python | 22:41 |
| zeth | and not getting anything else done | 22:41 |
| zeth | I'll sort it out once I become chairman of the PSF ;) | 22:42 |
| ambv | yeah, the problem is that while I have much respect for those helping on #python, I tend to really hate those being helped. | 22:42 |
| zeth | if I really wanted to go in there I would go as zeth0, but it is too busy to read it | 22:44 |
| zeth | I prefer smaller channels like this where you an get to know people | 22:44 |
| lac | this channel is always logged. | 22:45 |
| zeth | Hi lac! | 22:46 |
| zeth | how are you? | 22:46 |
| lac | tired, with new product just released. | 22:46 |
| zeth | oh cool | 22:46 |
| lac | If you can find me a zillion users, I can hire all of you. :-) | 22:46 |
| zeth | lol | 22:46 |
| zeth | Then I would have to move to sweden, then my wife would never let me escape from there again | 22:47 |
| matti | lac: :) | 22:47 |
| lac | some of us think that would be a _feature_ :-) | 22:48 |
| lac | new website here: http://www.eutaxia.se/ film arrives tomorrow. | 22:49 |
| lac | its in Swedish, but you can see the pictures ... | 22:49 |
| zeth | maybe, just don't let mrs zeth know there is any python programming up north ;) | 22:54 |
| zeth | otherwise I would be dragged there tomorrow | 22:54 |
| zeth | And I would miss all the benefits of living in a big city: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/8361023.stm | 22:55 |
| zeth | lac I like the colour scheme | 22:56 |
| zeth | white with a little blue | 22:56 |
| zeth | nice and light but not too clinical | 22:57 |
| lac | also some red sometimes. | 22:57 |
| lac | thank you. | 22:57 |
| zeth | I have made 9p so far today on google adsense! | 22:59 |
| zeth | this is exponential growth | 23:00 |
| zeth | nothing on sunday, 2p on monday | 23:00 |
| ambv | wait for next month! | 23:01 |
| ambv | lac: an iMac with WinXP on it. argh! | 23:01 |
| lac | ambv: ?? we're showing FireFox, no? | 23:02 |
| ambv | why not do that on a proper Mac OS X? | 23:03 |
| ambv | I can provide you with screenshots if you're lacking the hardware | 23:03 |
| ambv | :D | 23:03 |
| * ambv is just kidding | 23:03 | |
| zeth | If it increases by 4.5 times a day, I will have £5.97472654344916e+25 by Christmas | 23:04 |
| zeth | which is probably more money than exists in the world | 23:04 |
| zeth | I would own Google | 23:04 |
| zeth | Though I might retire after 24 days | 23:05 |
| zeth | on that day I would earn £9,508,901,009,186,806 | 23:05 |
| ambv | http://21.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_krdfjoLN7u1qa0in8o1_500.jpg | 23:06 |
| zeth | or it might stay on 9p | 23:06 |
| lac | I think that some of the screenshots were done by our media agency, and while I know they have macs all over their place, I am not sure what they run on them. | 23:06 |
| lac | right now we work with ff and ie only, though safari ought to not be that hard to do. | 23:06 |
| zeth | ambv: I remember watching the video of that gates and jobs panel | 23:06 |
| zeth | it is very uncomfortable viewing | 23:07 |
| zeth | gates is not graceful or easy in his skin | 23:07 |
| zeth | it was a bit like watching Gordon Brown and President Obama together | 23:07 |
| zeth | new dynamic president and clapped out British mumbler with giant bags under his eyes | 23:08 |
| ambv | hehe | 23:10 |
| zeth | of course we wouldn't have it any other way, we like to poke fun at our leaders | 23:10 |
| zeth | the bigger the Clown the better | 23:10 |
| ambv | you have no idea. | 23:10 |
| ambv | w | 23:10 |
| zeth | What is going on in polish politics? | 23:11 |
| ambv | we went with such absurd in Poland in last 5 years that 2 years ago we actually went with a reasonable and boring party just to have some time off from the loonies. | 23:12 |
| ambv | we actually had twins being the president and prime minister. you might have heard about it, it was quite popular. | 23:12 |
| zeth | No I didn't hear that | 23:13 |
| ambv | yup, you're a geek alright ;) | 23:13 |
| lac | how difficult was it to tell one twin from the other? | 23:14 |
| zeth | I remember Blair (B-lair) claimed he was going to build an alliance between UK and central and eastern europe to counterbalance France and German influence in the EU, not sure where that went, must have been binned to get us into Iraq | 23:14 |
| zeth | Yeah I see what you mean about this picture: http://www.eutaxia.se/images/stories/bg_handledning.jpg | 23:14 |
| zeth | looks rather wrong | 23:14 |
| zeth | at least to a geek | 23:15 |
| zeth | I don't think it is real anyway | 23:15 |
| zeth | I think it may be using more than the visible area of the screen | 23:15 |
| zeth | Anyhow, I have no idea what the product is, so I doubt the real customers will care about suck geek-stuff | 23:16 |
| lac | It's a real screenshot. But not sure that the hardware is real ... | 23:16 |
| lac | This is a task tracker. | 23:17 |
| zeth | I think it is probably a stock monitor graphic with the screenshot cleverly bent on using photoshop | 23:17 |
| zeth | meant to look like an iMac but not actually one | 23:17 |
| lac | zeth: that's what I think happened, as well. | 23:17 |
| zeth | i.e. there are not power cables | 23:18 |
| zeth | It is an aspirational image, I have never seen such a nice looking Windows machine | 23:18 |
| lac | :-) | 23:19 |
| ambv | lac: usually it was quite tricky to differentiate between the twins but after a year or so a regular Pole became proficient at it | 23:19 |
| zeth | Windows monitor looks like the one on the left here: http://commandline.org.uk/images/posts/other/bulk-items.jpg | 23:19 |
| lac | ambv: I can see some interesting diplomatic possibilities here. | 23:20 |
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