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| aa_ | still any chance of a clue as to how many tutorial attendees I have got? | 12:29 |
|---|---|---|
| fuzzyman | aa_: I don't think anyone has signed up for yours | 12:39 |
| fuzzyman | sorry | 12:39 |
| fuzzyman | only kidding - I'd like to know the same for ours actually | 12:40 |
| fuzzyman | but I don't think everyone who has paid for tutorials has yet signed up for specific tutorials yet - so the numbers won't be accurate anyway | 12:41 |
| aa_ | oh ok | 12:41 |
| aa_ | zero would be fine by me :) | 12:41 |
| fuzzyman | heh | 12:42 |
| fuzzyman | me too | 12:42 |
| aa_ | all the kudos, and none of the work | 13:15 |
| aa_ | and I could sit and sprint with the other pida dev | 13:15 |
| * aa_ prays its zero | 13:15 | |
| fuzzyman | aa_: I doubt it. | 13:33 |
| fuzzyman | and even if it is I might come - I'm interested in learning about Gtk | 13:33 |
| fuzzyman | are you staying for sprints? | 13:33 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: will be there until sunday | 13:46 |
| aa_ | not sure when the sprints are | 13:46 |
| aa_ | if its like the previous pyconuk's the whole thing would be a sprint for me | 13:47 |
| matti | Hello | 13:47 |
| fuzzyman | sprints are Friday to Sunday I think | 13:48 |
| aa_ | then yes, I will be | 13:52 |
| fuzzyman | I'm there until Saturday - not sure what I will be doing though :-) | 13:52 |
| fuzzyman | Your mrs must be pleased with you (miine isn't I can assure you) - being away for a whole week. How did you get away with it? :-D | 13:53 |
| matti | Uh. | 14:14 |
| matti | God. | 14:14 |
| matti | Next time there is no mercy. | 14:14 |
| matti | We have to enforce the way how people submit their talks. | 14:14 |
| matti | Format and layout. | 14:14 |
| matti | :) | 14:14 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: I explained to her that unless I speak at these conferences, I will never be able to work for google | 14:15 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: and that working for google translates to jewellery for her | 14:15 |
| aa_ | simple equation really. "Me go" = "You shiny" | 14:16 |
| aa_ | matti: think egg carton. Eggs are all different, but the slots in the carton can take account of the variations | 14:16 |
| matti | Heheh | 14:16 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: why, are you under the whip? | 14:17 |
| fuzzyman | she doesn't like it when I abandon her for a long time | 14:19 |
| fuzzyman | she misses me :-) | 14:20 |
| fuzzyman | but I take her away for a holiday the day I after I return | 14:20 |
| fuzzyman | so it is alright this time :-) | 14:20 |
| fuzzyman | actually I go to quite a few conferences (thanks to Resolver) but she doesn't like it | 14:20 |
| aa_ | whipped | 14:22 |
| fuzzyman | heh | 14:22 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: actually, I am worse, but I only do one a year, and I warn her about it in January | 14:22 |
| fuzzyman | :-) | 14:22 |
| fuzzyman | xhtml 1.0 transitional | 14:27 |
| fuzzyman | :-) | 14:27 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: heh thanks | 14:28 |
| aa_ | voby the way, your avatar would look GREAT with a green overlay! | 14:28 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: ^^ | 14:28 |
| fuzzyman | I vaguely disapprove of the green overlay thingy | 14:28 |
| fuzzyman | in the sense that I don't think it does any real good | 14:29 |
| aa_ | yeah me too | 14:29 |
| fuzzyman | at least from a westerner like me it seems vaguely patronising | 14:29 |
| fuzzyman | like I'm pretending to do something | 14:29 |
| aa_ | but it's like my own people so I had to do it | 14:29 |
| fuzzyman | and patting myself on the back for what a good person I am | 14:29 |
| fuzzyman | yeah - completely different for you | 14:29 |
| fuzzyman | do you know anyone caught up in the troubles? | 14:30 |
| aa_ | well, I have lots of family there | 14:30 |
| fuzzyman | right | 14:30 |
| aa_ | in tehran and tabriz | 14:30 |
| fuzzyman | what do they think of it all? | 14:30 |
| fuzzyman | you been able to speak to them? | 14:30 |
| aa_ | yeah, I call once a day | 14:30 |
| fuzzyman | so hard to filter out what is really going on over here | 14:30 |
| fuzzyman | at least I don't feel like I really have a clue | 14:30 |
| aa_ | they are firmly of the belief that "nothing will change" | 14:30 |
| aa_ | but people are protesting | 14:31 |
| fuzzyman | right | 14:31 |
| aa_ | and according to them they are the biggest protests they have ever seen | 14:31 |
| aa_ | oh, and people are being shot | 14:31 |
| aa_ | and jpurnos are disappearing | 14:31 |
| aa_ | journos | 14:31 |
| fuzzyman | :-( | 14:31 |
| aa_ | but the saddening blanket thought of "nothing will change" | 14:31 |
| aa_ | it's just soul-destroying | 14:32 |
| aa_ | 30 years of opression makes people behave opressed | 14:32 |
| aa_ | oh well | 14:32 |
| fuzzyman | yeah | 14:32 |
| aa_ | I have strongly told anyone I know to not go out and riot | 14:32 |
| aa_ | I rather have my family staying alive | 14:32 |
| aa_ | sounds selfish I know, but hey | 14:33 |
| fuzzyman | understandable | 14:37 |
| fuzzyman | aa_: how's your review of IronPython in Action coming along? | 14:43 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: I read about a third of it, then got waylaid, but I haven't forgotten | 14:45 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: well-written book | 14:45 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: one thing I will comment on though is that IP + Mono is #fail | 14:46 |
| * fuzzyman blushes | 14:46 | |
| fuzzyman | aa_: even after your fix? | 14:46 |
| fuzzyman | The new version (2.4.2) can compile 2.0.1 and 2.6 | 14:47 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: well, WPF is totally absent and will never be there | 14:47 |
| fuzzyman | and there will be a new FePy release soon so Mono will include a decent version of IronPython instead of a broken version | 14:47 |
| fuzzyman | and yes, missing WPF is a shame | 14:47 |
| fuzzyman | You can use GTK#, Cocoa# or Qyoto (Qt) | 14:47 |
| aa_ | oh good, fepy looked dead to me | 14:47 |
| fuzzyman | or winforms of course - but winforms looks a bit rough | 14:48 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: yeah, but if I am using gtk# I would just use pygtk, so... | 14:48 |
| fuzzyman | only really useful for porting Windows apps | 14:48 |
| aa_ | a bit rough? looks like leeds on a sunday morning at 4am | 14:48 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: but yeah, the book is very nice | 14:49 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: personal question, does it make you much cash? | 14:49 |
| aa_ | (feel free to ignore) | 14:49 |
| fuzzyman | aa_: not had first quarter sales results | 14:52 |
| fuzzyman | yet | 14:52 |
| fuzzyman | but no it won't | 14:52 |
| fuzzyman | after a year's worth of sales I expect it to have paid out the equivalent of minimum wage for the time I spent on it | 14:52 |
| fuzzyman | may not even make that much | 14:52 |
| dboddie | aa_: He'll make the big bucks doing the live show. ;-) | 14:53 |
| fuzzyman | hehe | 14:53 |
| aa_ | hah | 14:53 |
| aa_ | interested, because I have been approached to write a book, and I would love to, but effort vs cash | 14:53 |
| fuzzyman | I have some training booked in Sweden, which if it goes ahead, will make me £1000 a day (for two days) | 14:53 |
| fuzzyman | but may or may not actually happen | 14:53 |
| fuzzyman | so useful for career - but not a money maker on its own | 14:54 |
| aa_ | fair enough | 14:54 |
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| zeth | Hi | 15:14 |
| zeth | aa_ fuzzyman, I have the counts of checkins so far | 15:14 |
| fuzzyman | ah... | 15:14 |
| fuzzyman | go for it | 15:14 |
| zeth | but only around 1/3 or so have checked in | 15:14 |
| aa_ | zeth: great | 15:14 |
| fuzzyman | let's have em | 15:14 |
| fuzzyman | thought so | 15:14 |
| aa_ | bezerobezerobezero | 15:14 |
| fuzzyman | :-) | 15:15 |
| zeth | so they are not so accurate | 15:15 |
| fuzzyman | would be nice if IP was zero | 15:15 |
| zeth | afraid not | 15:15 |
| fuzzyman | although last year at PyCon UK we had more than at PyCon US this year! | 15:15 |
| aa_ | zeth: also, any chance of being able to contact the people? | 15:15 |
| aa_ | zeth: ok, thanks | 15:16 |
| zeth | I have done a little reading of who has checked in. As you can see, almost all of the newbies have checked in | 15:16 |
| fuzzyman | thanks Zeth | 15:16 |
| zeth | The people that have not checked in are the people we know | 15:16 |
| fuzzyman | Pyjamas is rocking | 15:16 |
| zeth | The people that have checked in are the people we have not heard of | 15:16 |
| fuzzyman | wow | 15:16 |
| aa_ | zeth: well, personally, I couldn't work out how to check in | 15:16 |
| zeth | well the people that have been before are laid back | 15:17 |
| zeth | it is optional check-in | 15:17 |
| zeth | like airport | 15:17 |
| aa_ | except with the optional bit | 15:17 |
| zeth | however, due to printing costs, next year we will make the check-in compulsory | 15:17 |
| zeth | because making it optional has put John in a mess | 15:17 |
| zeth | because he does not know what to print | 15:17 |
| zeth | fuzzyman: Pjamamas you have to divide by two | 15:18 |
| zeth | because it is full day | 15:18 |
| aa_ | if I have under 5/10 people (looks likely) I am going to go more freeform, and see what people actually want to know. is that reasonable? | 15:19 |
| zeth | well my point is that 2/3 of people have not booked | 15:19 |
| aa_ | ah ok | 15:19 |
| zeth | and since aa_'s tutorial is not introdutory, you have more random crowd | 15:19 |
| zeth | 2/3 of people have not checked in I mean | 15:20 |
| zeth | We have a certain number of people who bought the tutorials, we know them | 15:20 |
| zeth | but only 1/3 checkedin | 15:20 |
| zeth | aa_: however 9 would be a reasonable minimum to think about | 15:21 |
| aa_ | zeth: thanks for the heads-up | 15:21 |
| zeth | since 3 * 3 | 15:21 |
| zeth | I will at some point make the titles on that count page clickable, and show a list of delegates | 15:22 |
| zeth | if that would help anyone | 15:22 |
| fuzzyman | zeth: that would be very helpful | 15:23 |
| aa_ | yeah, very helpful | 15:23 |
| aa_ | and I am tempted to contact them all this week at some point to make sure they have got their dev environments set up correctly | 15:23 |
| aa_ | because my experience of these things is that the first hour is f*ing around | 15:24 |
| zeth | yep | 15:24 |
| zeth | indeed | 15:24 |
| matti | Eh | 15:28 |
| matti | God. | 15:28 |
| * matti puts his work place on fire. | 15:29 | |
| matti | ;] | 15:29 |
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| pboddie | fuzzyman: Do you know if there's any actual interest in that VM panel/discussion/shootout that I boldly suggested? | 16:07 |
| fuzzyman | I have proposed it as a talk already | 16:07 |
| fuzzyman | and I think it is likely to happen | 16:07 |
| fuzzyman | we have a few drop-outs and this can replace one | 16:07 |
| pboddie | What do you think about setting up a Wiki page with questions from insiders and outsiders? | 16:08 |
| pboddie | And maybe some kind of sign-up sheet, if that's necessary? | 16:09 |
| fuzzyman | well - there was a google moderator setup for the same panel at PyCon US | 16:09 |
| fuzzyman | with lots of questions from the community | 16:09 |
| pboddie | Yes, but please not Google Moderator! :-) | 16:10 |
| fuzzyman | already lots of questions I mean | 16:10 |
| fuzzyman | and we can have an open mic for the rest | 16:10 |
| pboddie | Besides, a Wiki page keeps out the three million identical "what about the GIL?" questions. ;-) | 16:11 |
| fuzzyman | Jonathan Hartley was at the PyCon talk (as was I - but I'm proposing to be on the panel representing IronPython) - and he is a jovial fellow - so I've proposed him to host | 16:11 |
| fuzzyman | what I mean is that we don't need any more questions in advance | 16:11 |
| pboddie | Great! | 16:11 |
| fuzzyman | I have Carl Bolz for PyPy | 16:11 |
| fuzzyman | need a CPython guy - was going to ask Steve Holden or Raymond Hettinger (not sure if Raymond is coming) | 16:12 |
| fuzzyman | and a Jython guy - but Frank and / or Jim will be around | 16:12 |
| fuzzyman | and there is this interesting Glasgow VM as well | 16:12 |
| pboddie | I thought the actual content from the PyCon panel was a bit tame, though. "Do you believe in perfect Python compatibility?" That kind of thing. | 16:12 |
| fuzzyman | we can suggest to JB that he spices up the questions | 16:13 |
| fuzzyman | I think a bit of controversy makes a much more interesting panel :-) | 16:13 |
| pboddie | I mean, let's rip up the songsheet: if they believe in perfect compatibility, what about Python 3? | 16:15 |
| pboddie | And I don't mean that as in "are you going to support Python 3?" but as in "why would you not consider enhancing or simplifying Python in other ways?" | 16:16 |
| pboddie | I remember one of the CERN guys at EP2006 saying that there should be a Python standard (mostly because GvR was thinking about removing map, reduce and filter, which they used), and the whole "CPython is the reference implementation" excuse seems pretty weak to me - it's why there's continuous moaning about the GIL, for a start. | 16:18 |
| aa_ | but what about the GIL? | 16:20 |
| aa_ | ;) | 16:21 |
| pboddie | Well, many people refuse to use Jython or fuzzyman's favourite implementation because CPython is "the real Python". So for them, the GIL is constantly on their minds. | 16:23 |
| aa_ | well, Jython 2.5ish is pretty new | 16:23 |
| aa_ | but I have a secret notion that Swing is the best gui platform for python development | 16:24 |
| aa_ | (please don't tell anyone) | 16:24 |
| pboddie | No-one would listen, anyway. ;-) | 16:25 |
| aa_ | true | 16:28 |
| fuzzyman | Swing - has it changed? It used to be brutally awful. | 16:28 |
| pboddie | I should try Jython 2.5 out, really, because I was using PyLucene before, but there's probably little point in horsing around with JVM integration if you can run a recent Python in the JVM. | 16:28 |
| fuzzyman | For Windows development winforms or WPF are the best. | 16:28 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: it's actually brutally good | 16:28 |
| fuzzyman | fair enough - it still has a reputation to shake off | 16:29 |
| fuzzyman | I'd like to use Qt I think but pyqt licensing on windows is still bad | 16:29 |
| pboddie | It's still GPL or the commercial licence. | 16:29 |
| aa_ | it's not lgpl? | 16:29 |
| fuzzyman | pyqt has not changed license | 16:30 |
| pboddie | aa_: PyQt specifically, not Qt. | 16:30 |
| aa_ | ah | 16:30 |
| aa_ | someone really needs to write a wrapper around pyqt (imo) | 16:30 |
| fuzzyman | but of course you can use Qyoto with IronPython :-) | 16:30 |
| aa_ | that API is insanity | 16:30 |
| fuzzyman | I might seriously look at that | 16:30 |
| fuzzyman | I heard the pyqt api is not so good | 16:30 |
| pboddie | fuzzyman: You could blaze a trail and use Jython and QtJambi. ;-) | 16:30 |
| aa_ | it's not just terrible, it's insane | 16:30 |
| * aa_ has been writing a lot of vala+gtk recently | 16:31 | |
| aa_ | just leave python out of the equation | 16:31 |
| pboddie | Vala looks like something which would produce a lot of weird errors if you stepped off the red carpet. | 16:31 |
| aa_ | I expected that too. I found one weird error and they fixed it that day | 16:34 |
| aa_ | for me its way safer than writing in C | 16:34 |
| aa_ | overall I was very impressed | 16:34 |
| pboddie | And it seems a bit "niche", really. Gtk+-centric and really some kind of figleaf for all the C programmers who don't want to back down over the whole scripting language thing. | 16:35 |
| zeth | Yeah | 16:35 |
| zeth | I agree | 16:35 |
| zeth | Why do we need vala when all GTK apps have Python bindings? | 16:35 |
| aa_ | zeth: because of failings in pygtk :( | 16:35 |
| zeth | well a lot of Python bindings to C and C++ are not very well thought out | 16:36 |
| aa_ | oh which failings, well, performance for base gtk.Widget stuff like exposure event handling for drawing is just way too slow in python, and causes nasty flickers | 16:36 |
| zeth | but that is an opportunity I think | 16:36 |
| fuzzyman | is it true that it is very hard to use threads when working with PyGTK? | 16:36 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: not at all | 16:36 |
| fuzzyman | ok | 16:36 |
| pboddie | There are a load of people who whine about Python programs taking up too much of their RAM, presumably while Beagle or whatever desktop search engine is currently popular constantly thrashes their disks and consumes 90+% of the CPU. | 16:36 |
| fuzzyman | can you update the UI from another thread? | 16:37 |
| fuzzyman | I loathe desktop search engines | 16:37 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: no, but you never need to: http://unpythonic.blogspot.com/2007/08/using-threads-in-pygtk.html | 16:37 |
| zeth | My software I am trying to write is better and more sensible Python library for Berkerely DBXML | 16:37 |
| zeth | since the SWIG based bindings are mostly unusable | 16:37 |
| fuzzyman | aa_: right - so there is an API for doing it idle_add | 16:37 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: one problem is that gtk+ has a few different threaded specific code paths, which are surely not as well tested. | 16:38 |
| fuzzyman | most GUI libraries are single threaded - which is fine so long as they provide an API for updating the GUI from another thread | 16:38 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: right | 16:38 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: you don't have to idle_add, you can acquire() styly things, but idle_add is just safer | 16:38 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: but from what I remember the idle_* API is a bit simpler than the .net thing | 16:39 |
| aa_ | which totally baffled me | 16:39 |
| pboddie | I'm more of a Web person, myself, but I don't think that the PyQt API is that bad. They've gone in for theming, which would appear to make ad-hoc styling a bit awkward, and the scrollable stuff is still not as nice as it should be, but it mostly works as one would expect for an API at that level. | 16:39 |
| fuzzyman | the winforms one is simple gui_object.Invoke(delegate) | 16:39 |
| fuzzyman | virtually the same | 16:39 |
| fuzzyman | although Invoke is blocking | 16:40 |
| fuzzyman | so I often spin off the invoke on another thread | 16:40 |
| fuzzyman | :-) | 16:40 |
| zeth | I am a web person also, but when I have done some odd GUI things, I have found them all to be fine | 16:40 |
| fuzzyman | and the asynchronous (non blocking) API in winforms is dumb | 16:40 |
| zeth | for basic things | 16:40 |
| aa_ | how odd were these odd things, eh | 16:41 |
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| fuzzyman | I imagine most things zeth does are odd | 16:42 |
| zeth | ;) | 16:45 |
| matti | Eh | 16:45 |
| zeth | fuzzyman: I think 'individual' is the politically correct word now. | 16:45 |
| aa_ | we can't even say "special" any more? | 16:46 |
| pboddie | As for the Vala stuff, I recall someone from Red Hat commenting (perhaps on the Unladen Swallow stuff) that the most important advance they'd like to see is a reduced memory footprint for Python. | 16:46 |
| zeth | Well I once made a TKinter app for Uni | 16:47 |
| zeth | They have a learning environment thing | 16:48 |
| zeth | so I made an add on to let students rate their module | 16:48 |
| zeth | and the data was exported as CSV | 16:48 |
| zeth | and then a secretary would open it in the TKinter app | 16:48 |
| zeth | and it would export PDF made in report lab | 16:48 |
| zeth | with graphs and percentages and comments | 16:48 |
| zeth | each lecturer would then get a report in their pigeon hole | 16:49 |
| zeth | and they all ran around comparing their percent | 16:49 |
| zeth | really stupid but worked really well | 16:49 |
| zeth | replaced a person's whole job | 16:49 |
| zeth | that person could then do something else | 16:49 |
| fuzzyman | Tkinter has a very odd API - and an odder look and feel | 16:49 |
| zeth | it was very ugly | 16:50 |
| zeth | but it didn't matter | 16:50 |
| zeth | main thing was that it needed to work on Windows | 16:50 |
| zeth | so at the time that was easiest way for me | 16:50 |
| zeth | I also made an app in PyGTK when I first learned Python | 16:50 |
| zeth | it was an IDLE clone | 16:50 |
| zeth | that worked as an add-on for the Linux program Gedit | 16:51 |
| zeth | you could press F5 and it opened a GUI terminal running the results | 16:51 |
| pboddie | I did Tkinter stuff back in 1996 or so. It was all explicit callbacks, but there's a lot of flexibility in there, and it's just a shame that neither Tk nor Tkinter got improved in such a way that it might be more competitive. | 16:52 |
| pboddie | As for the look and feel, I've seen more odd-looking "made for Windows" programs than Tk. | 16:54 |
| aa_ | one thing tk has is an awesome state-proxying stuff | 16:55 |
| aa_ | haven't seen any other gui lib with that out the box | 16:56 |
| fuzzyman | Actually the latest release of Tk has a very modern looking UI | 16:56 |
| fuzzyman | or at least it is *possible* to create modern looking UIs | 16:56 |
| fuzzyman | I think it is called Tile | 16:56 |
| fuzzyman | I hear there is Tkinter support for it - but not tried it | 16:57 |
| fuzzyman | it was the referencing components by strings I found odd | 16:57 |
| fuzzyman | but in Tcl everything is a string right | 16:57 |
| pboddie | aa_: state-proxying? | 17:02 |
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| aa_ | pboddie: yeah, like widgets linked to object attributes | 17:03 |
| aa_ | pboddie: so when the object's state changes, so doe the widgets | 17:03 |
| fuzzyman | databinding | 17:04 |
| aa_ | that's it | 17:05 |
| aa_ | I am sure .net has all this stuff to | 17:06 |
| fuzzyman | yep | 17:06 |
| aa_ | and I have written (too many) frameworks to make it happen for pygtk | 17:06 |
| aa_ | fuzzyman: in .net can you bind to any old thing, or does it have to be a real DataProviderThingummy | 17:07 |
| fuzzyman | depends on the API | 17:07 |
| fuzzyman | but usually any object with properties | 17:07 |
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| pboddie | Found the Google Moderator page for the PyCon VM panel: http://moderator.appspot.com/#15/e=2fa6a&t=31181 | 18:43 |
| pboddie | (Needs JavaScript to "boot" the page - the worst kind of AJAX.) | 18:43 |
| fuzzyman | who doesn't use Javascript these days though? | 18:49 |
| pboddie | fuzzyman: "IronPython is built on top of the closed-source .NET VM." I can't believe you let that stand. Meow! ;-) | 18:49 |
| pboddie | I have NoScript installed after some idiots decided to plague the national broadcaster's Web site with a stupid scrolling banner that consumed 90+% of the CPU. | 18:50 |
| fuzzyman | where is that? | 18:50 |
| pboddie | The second page of questions. | 18:51 |
| fuzzyman | ha | 18:51 |
| fuzzyman | the question page was open to everyone | 18:51 |
| fuzzyman | and it is a valid question | 18:51 |
| fuzzyman | Mono is an obvious answer of course | 18:52 |
| pboddie | A good question might be to take Dean Hall's "Should we stop adding features to Python" question and ask, "Would it help Python and its implementations/implementers if people stopped adding features to Python?" | 18:52 |
| fuzzyman | or partial answer | 18:52 |
| pboddie | There's even a Vala question (and something about Genie which I should add to the Python implementations page on the Wiki, maybe). | 18:53 |
| fuzzyman | right | 18:53 |
| matti | UH. | 18:54 |
| matti | ;] | 18:54 |
| fuzzyman | I don't even know what Vala is | 18:54 |
| fuzzyman | I should look into it | 18:54 |
| fuzzyman | I confuse it with Valgrind | 18:54 |
| pboddie | Meow! "Genie has none of the bloat and overhead that comes with many other high level languages which utilize a VM (Eg Python, Mono, et al)" | 18:56 |
| pboddie | Looks like Vala with Python-like syntax. | 18:56 |
| matti | Hm. | 19:01 |
| matti | Heh. | 19:01 |
| dboddie | "There is not yet an official logo for Genie/Vala, above image just a placeholder." http://puppylinux.com/genie/ | 19:01 |
| dboddie | Probably just as well... | 19:01 |
| matti | Is the lightning talk about everything pretty much? | 19:01 |
| pboddie | Makes the Django Pony look tasteful. | 19:01 |
| pboddie | Even if the DP could have flashing green/magenta colouring. | 19:01 |
| dboddie | I bet the Django Pony could take those characters in a fight. | 19:01 |
| matti | LOL | 19:01 |
| matti | DP is EVIL. | 19:01 |
| matti | Pure *EVIL* | 19:01 |
| matti | Its pink. | 19:01 |
| matti | ;/ | 19:01 |
| dboddie | :-) | 19:01 |
| matti | And my colleague is addicted to it now. | 19:01 |
| matti | Since I've sent the URL to her. | 19:01 |
| matti | I have created a monster. | 19:01 |
| pboddie | In a fight: the Django Pwny. ;-) | 19:01 |
| matti | Hahah | 19:01 |
| zeth | fuzzyman: aa_: On that tutorial count page | 19:02 |
| zeth | you can now see the attendees | 19:02 |
| * matti blinks at zeth | 19:03 | |
| fuzzyman | zeth: thanks - can you remind me the url | 19:03 |
| aa_ | thanks zeth | 19:10 |
| ronny | yo | 19:12 |
| ronny | TheSheep: ping? how clear is your plan for sleeping-places by now? | 19:12 |
| pboddie | matti: The lightning talks generally have to be about Python-related stuff, although I'm sure some people have strayed onto other things. | 19:14 |
| TheSheep | ronny: I can't get my friend to respond to any questions, so we will probably improvize | 19:15 |
| TheSheep | ronny: do you have anything planned? | 19:15 |
| ronny | TheSheep: nothing, i just know i'll be there from 27th to 4th | 19:18 |
| zeth | Last year at PyConUK, Simon Willison did a lightning talk about zepplins | 19:18 |
| matti | pboddie: I see. | 19:19 |
| matti | I have this project... of mine. | 19:19 |
| pboddie | zeth: Not the Lithuanian zeppelins, though. | 19:19 |
| matti | Which is not yet public. | 19:19 |
| matti | But... | 19:19 |
| * pboddie thinks about zeppelins. Mmm... | 19:20 | |
| TheSheep | ronny: the hotels are pretty expensive in there | 19:21 |
| ronny | TheSheep: yeah, i noticed | 19:22 |
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| TheSheep | shame there is no gym like on CCC :) | 19:23 |
| ronny | yeah | 19:23 |
| ronny | seems like a night will be in the range of 12-20€ | 19:24 |
| pboddie | fuzzyman: You should run with this one: "What is the difference between an implementation of Python and an implementation of a "Python-like language" - how do we (the community) tell the difference?" | 19:26 |
| fuzzyman | didn't I ask that question? | 19:26 |
| fuzzyman | I meant it for things like Shedskin or RPython | 19:27 |
| fuzzyman | are they implementations of Python - or just Python inspired languages | 19:27 |
| fuzzyman | or partial implementations | 19:27 |
| pboddie | Yes, but I think it can go further because this usually brings back the response "Shed Skin isn't Python - I need my full Python!" | 19:27 |
| fuzzyman | I don't think there is an answer but it is an interesting question | 19:27 |
| fuzzyman | I think we should have the audience asking most of the questions with the moderator falling back to a list to get things going and keep things going | 19:28 |
| pboddie | Perhaps something like, "What would you remove from your implementation, perhaps to take advantage of better performance, platform features, and so on, and still have the courage to call it a Python implementation?" | 19:28 |
| ronny | rpython clearly states its partial and will stay partial, no idea about shedskin | 19:28 |
| pboddie | I want to hear people say things that we haven't heard before. There was little enlightenment on that front at the PyCon panel, in my opinion. | 19:29 |
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| ronny | TheSheep: lets try to figure out where we could sleep soonish | 19:36 |
| pboddie | matti: As long as knowledge of your project doesn't require everyone to sign an NDA. ;-) | 19:36 |
| TheSheep | ronny: backpackers seems plausible | 19:36 |
| TheSheep | ronny: but they don't guarantee they will have room | 19:36 |
| TheSheep | The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later. <-- their website XD | 19:37 |
| TheSheep | seems like they are popular | 19:37 |
| tobixen | TheSheep: http://www.bewelcome.org / http://www.couchsurfing.org http://www.hospitalityclub.org ;-) | 19:38 |
| TheSheep | tobixen: I'm not part of these... | 19:39 |
| matti | pboddie: Of course it does. | 19:39 |
| matti | pboddie: And I have too kill everyone afterwards. | 19:39 |
| matti | ;] | 19:39 |
| ronny | TheSheep: can we book them ahead of time? | 19:40 |
| TheSheep | ronny: you could if their website was working | 19:40 |
| TheSheep | ronny: we can probably call | 19:40 |
| TheSheep | ronny: but I'm still on the wrong continent | 19:41 |
| TheSheep | ronny: will be home on Wednesday | 19:41 |
| ronny | wrong continent? where the heck are you now? | 19:41 |
| tobixen | I went 40 km into Asia previous week ;-) | 19:42 |
| tobixen | but it's still the same continent, so it doesn't count | 19:43 |
| pboddie | tobixen: Undercover? ;-) | 19:43 |
| tobixen | not really ;-) | 19:44 |
| pboddie | Sounds like a more exotic version of the Norwegian cross-border shopping trip. | 19:45 |
| TheSheep | ronny: Los Angeles | 19:49 |
| ronny | found any angels? i heard they taste like chicken | 19:51 |
| TheSheep | I don't eat roadkill | 19:55 |
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