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| lac | hello | 12:55 |
|---|---|---|
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| tartley_ | hi | 12:57 |
| lac | hi tartley_ Cmooney | 12:57 |
| CMooney | hi lac | 12:57 |
| CMooney | John's beavering away getting voip workinjg. | 12:57 |
| lac | the sound quality is too bad for me to use VOIP | 12:57 |
| nickbooker | hi CMooney :) | 12:58 |
| CMooney | whahawahah nickbooker | 12:58 |
| nickbooker | hi tartley_, lac. | 12:58 |
| tartley_ | I see. I'm being a dunce with Ekiga, while trying to "connect to 299@pbx.thyme.uk.net" | 12:58 |
| tartley_ | Does that mean I enter 'sip:pbx.thyme...' into the 'address bar' at the top of Ekiga? | 12:59 |
| nickbooker | sip:299@pbx.thyme.uk.net | 13:00 |
| tartley_ | thx. Thought I'd tried that. let me try again. | 13:00 |
| tartley_ | Hm. no joy, I must be doing it wrong elsewhere. alright thanks I'll go look at my account & settings... | 13:02 |
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| CMooney | tartley_, what's your sip address at ekiga and I'll try and phone you, just to see if we can get a "normal" call working. | 13:03 |
| tartley_ | thanks. So my username is 'tartley', but that isn't it? | 13:04 |
| CMooney | your full address will be tartley@ekiga,net | 13:04 |
| tartley_ | ah hang on | 13:05 |
| tartley_ | i must have screwed up. I can't 'change password' on the ekiga site. clearly i messed up registering. | 13:05 |
| CMooney | tartley_, I can't dial out because of the firewall. Sorry. Can't try out my idea | 13:10 |
| CMooney | lac, How's connceting going? | 13:10 |
| lac | not <t all, and not fixable on my end in any reasonable amount of time | 13:10 |
| tartley_ | CMooney: np, thanks for the idea. I registered again, presumably correctly this time, cos now I can change passwords on the ekiga site. It may just be that... | 13:10 |
| lac | I am getting lots of hardware errors and missed packets and the connection drops sporadically | 13:11 |
| lac | This is tried with my laptop, and with jacob's machine at home, and a different machine at home | 13:11 |
| lac | So I think its my house, currently. | 13:12 |
| lac | I don't think that our model connection to the internet likes this thing, but then it might be the packetr network systesystem | 13:13 |
| lac | er packet network system in the house. | 13:13 |
| lac | I worked on this for a few hours last night, and then jacob worked a whole lot longer after I went to bed | 13:14 |
| lac | no luck. | 13:14 |
| lac | can you hear me? | 13:24 |
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| lac | can you see this? | 13:32 |
| moreati | hi lac, see what? | 13:32 |
| lac | just checking my connection to irc was up. | 13:32 |
| lac | thank you | 13:32 |
| lac | I am going off to the store, back in 20 minutes or so | 13:55 |
| lac | back | 14:35 |
| moreati | hi | 14:35 |
| moreati | is ekiga you've been trying to use? | 14:36 |
| jacob22 | moreati: Yes, ekiga is what I have been trying to set up for lac. I tried twinkle and kphone as well. | 14:40 |
| moreati | how about skype? | 14:41 |
| jacob22 | moreati: I can get ekiga to listen to my microphone, but I don't get any sound back to the earphone. | 14:41 |
| jacob22 | I haven't tried skype yet. I will later this afternoon. | 14:42 |
| jacob22 | I've checked that the earphone works with playing videos, so that part is working ok. | 14:42 |
| moreati | jacob22: ah, I was under a misapprehension, thought the problem was remote audio, not local. | 14:43 |
| moreati | jacob22: have you tried the audio test in the ekiga configuration druid? | 14:43 |
| jacob22 | I've made a tunnel in my firewall, so there shouldn't be a problem there. | 14:44 |
| moreati | that should check the audio works, independantly of sip | 14:44 |
| jacob22 | Do you know of any really good howto's for debugging Linux audio? | 14:45 |
| moreati | jacob22: Sorry, no. It just works for me now. | 14:46 |
| jacob22 | Yes, I tried the ekiga config stuff, and I get strange results. | 14:46 |
| moreati | jacob22: can you listen to an audio file, like an ogg or mp3? | 14:46 |
| jacob22 | Never tried that. I will. | 14:47 |
| jacob22 | But right now I'm off on an errand. It won't happen in time for the meeting, I'm afraid. | 14:48 |
| lac | jacob has left | 14:55 |
| lac | I can play oggs on my laptop, and my laptop has the same problem his machine has, which is why I think the problem is in our house | 14:56 |
| lac | and not in any of our machines in particular. | 14:56 |
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| moreati | tartley_: ping | 15:58 |
| tartley_ | present | 15:58 |
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| tartley_ | no success on my ekiga setup. think it's firewall issues. Still messing with it | 15:59 |
| lac | Hi John. | 15:59 |
| tartley_ | Hi John. | 15:59 |
| pinner | Hello | 15:59 |
| pinner | so, lack of success on the VoIP! Have to try some other time | 16:00 |
| * lac nods | 16:00 | |
| pinner | who's going to run this committee ? | 16:00 |
| tartley_ | yeah, will keep working on it. sorry i didn't do this work a previous day. | 16:00 |
| zeth | Hello all | 16:00 |
| lac | This meeting or the talks committee in general? | 16:01 |
| zeth | talk com | 16:01 |
| pinner | let's forget about the voip until after the meeting, then Q can help I expect | 16:01 |
| pinner | lac: in general | 16:01 |
| lac | I fear my VOIP problems will take longer to fix. They may mean that I cannot attend meetings from home, but only at work | 16:01 |
| lac | or something. | 16:02 |
| lac | I can run the committee, if it needs running. Mostly its not a matter of running things but doing work, :) | 16:02 |
| lac | If anybody else wants to run it, they are welcome to. | 16:02 |
| pinner | lac: I was thinking you or tartley | 16:03 |
| tartley_ | can do if it helps. No guarantee of quality. I don't have an agenda for today's chat. | 16:03 |
| tartley_ | Is there one? | 16:04 |
| pinner | I would like to be involved, but really that's to make sure we're using systems that link well into the website and can be maintaine | 16:04 |
| lac | tartley_: how familiar are you with past presenters of other Europythons? PyCON UKs? | 16:04 |
| tartley_ | or are the submissions, both structure and content, the agenda? | 16:04 |
| lac | I don't have an agenda for today either | 16:04 |
| pinner | tartley: no agenda, expect to review the current submissions | 16:05 |
| pinner | except, not expect | 16:05 |
| lac | Did you all get my mail in ep-improve? about how to improve the submissions? | 16:05 |
| moreati | lac yes | 16:05 |
| pinner | I was hoping to approve some talks so we can put them on the site | 16:05 |
| pinner | lac: yes | 16:05 |
| lac | as far as I am concerned you can approve all of them. | 16:06 |
| tartley_ | lac: talk presenters? I have only attended the last UK PyCon, no Europythons. I'm not familiar with most names as individuals if that's what you mean. | 16:06 |
| lac | But we will have to work on Harald's English a bit | 16:06 |
| lac | tartley_: it is. | 16:07 |
| tartley_ | lac: and yes, saw email, your suggestions all sounded good. | 16:07 |
| pinner | I suggest then that lac takes the lead with a view to tartley taking it on next year | 16:07 |
| lac | It is ideal if the talk schedule is done by people who know things like 'this person has no sense of time' | 16:07 |
| lac | and 'this person is funny' | 16:07 |
| lac | and so on and so forth. | 16:07 |
| lac | I know that for the EP regulars, but for the others from the UK not so much, so looks like we are a good match | 16:08 |
| pinner | lac: if you didn't know that, you'd probably never accept a talk from Harald | 16:08 |
| lac | exactly :) | 16:08 |
| tartley_ | I see, thanks for explaining. | 16:08 |
| lac | and he gives talks to packed rooms, because he is so funny. | 16:08 |
| pinner | I expect I'd hate his code ;-) | 16:09 |
| tartley_ | pinner: fair enough, will dive in with intention of absorbing lac's corrective guiding influence. | 16:10 |
| lac | its cleaner than you would expect. | 16:10 |
| lac | What we need, next, is somehtng I have always done with paper, but with a Django app we should | 16:10 |
| lac | be able to do this with computers, and that is for each talk we need a scratch pad that we can make comments on | 16:10 |
| zeth | Hi, lac I just read your email about ways to improve the talk submissions | 16:10 |
| lac | hi zeth | 16:11 |
| zeth | The "Any other comments" box at the bottom, we can use this, | 16:11 |
| zeth | if peoople just write their name | 16:11 |
| zeth | so | 16:11 |
| zeth | Zeth: I think this will be a good talk | 16:11 |
| tartley_ | right. Is a possible solution to transfer the talks into wiki pages? Paper sounds good, but difficult to co-ord remotely. | 16:11 |
| lac | no I want a box that only the reviewers can see, and the submitter cannot | 16:11 |
| zeth | the submitter can see nothing | 16:11 |
| pinner | before you go any further: | 16:12 |
| lac | aha, then what I want, then, is a different thing that the submitter can see as well | 16:12 |
| zeth | once it is in the system, the user can see nothing (I never got around to making a user interface to change the talks) | 16:12 |
| pinner | We have python scripts that take the talks and bios info and produce the web pages | 16:12 |
| * lac nods at pinner and zeth | 16:13 | |
| pinner | also another that takes a dictionary representing the schedule | 16:13 |
| zeth | This part of the app is just for us to edit the talks, once we are happy they leave my system in a python pickle/dict. | 16:13 |
| pinner | (which has to be produced by hand from the 'analogue' schedule | 16:13 |
| pinner | and produces the website timetable | 16:13 |
| pinner | and from which we produce the printed schedule | 16:13 |
| pinner | we don't want to throw this away | 16:14 |
| pinner | OK? | 16:14 |
| zeth | fine by me | 16:14 |
| moreati | agreed | 16:14 |
| tartley_ | yep. I wouldn't mind getting up to speed with that then. | 16:14 |
| lac | I wasn't intending to throw things away. | 16:14 |
| lac | But who decides the order of talks? Us or some code? | 16:14 |
| zeth | us | 16:14 |
| lac | ok. good. | 16:15 |
| pinner | we have to change the front end a little to suit this year's Django input | 16:15 |
| zeth | I was thinking that john can use his board and then sent digital photos to the list | 16:15 |
| zeth | so those not in birmingham can see the progress of the board | 16:15 |
| pinner | zeth: lac has a table bigger and better than my board | 16:15 |
| zeth | cool, same idea | 16:15 |
| lac | 3 of them, actually | 16:15 |
| pinner | lac: boasting again | 16:16 |
| zeth | ;) | 16:16 |
| lac | no, just that I can dedicate one to the app if needed. | 16:16 |
| * pinner chuckles | 16:16 | |
| zeth | Shall we go through each talk, one at a time? And discuss them together? | 16:17 |
| zeth | I don't mind if people think it is overkill. | 16:17 |
| pinner | last year there were people in Vilnius who were appalled at us using paper scheduling | 16:17 |
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| moreati | zeth: sounds like a plan | 16:17 |
| lac | Well, since none of them were willing to write the code that let us do things as an interactive web app, then too bad for them | 16:17 |
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| tartley_ | back | 16:18 |
| pinner | lac: exactly | 16:18 |
| tartley_ | lets try that for three, see how it goes | 16:18 |
| pinner | agreed | 16:18 |
| moreati | 1. The Zem of Pyjamas | 16:19 |
| zeth | Talks are here | 16:19 |
| zeth | http://www.europython.eu/submission/admin/submission/submission/ | 16:19 |
| zeth | Pyjamas has good amount of material | 16:20 |
| pinner | I know luke quite well | 16:20 |
| pinner | he is very bright but completely disorganised | 16:20 |
| pinner | I think we should accept his talk | 16:20 |
| moreati | category might be better as web, but like lac said... | 16:20 |
| zeth | I mean the abstract seems okay as is | 16:20 |
| pinner | but speak to him about the tutorial | 16:21 |
| pinner | and make clear what we want | 16:21 |
| lac | the whole category concept is bad | 16:21 |
| lac | because the best talks fit in at least 2 categories | 16:21 |
| moreati | VOTE category change to web | 16:21 |
| moreati | +1 | 16:21 |
| pinner | lac: let's see how the categories pan out when we have more talks: we can always change them | 16:21 |
| lac | vote -1000 | 16:21 |
| zeth | +1 | 16:22 |
| lac | the categorising thing should be the last thing that you do | 16:22 |
| zeth | Maybe we should change the datatype, so it is a many-to-many | 16:22 |
| zeth | so it is like tags | 16:22 |
| pinner | lac: one byte integer overflow | 16:22 |
| lac | and what we want is a list of all the people who would be interested, | 16:22 |
| lac | so, web + edu plus god knowsw what | 16:22 |
| qwright | I found the UKUUG pyjamas tutorial very hard-going | 16:22 |
| tartley_ | are zeth and lac saying the same thing. tags = list of interested groups? | 16:23 |
| zeth | Well how about we change it to web for now, since by UI we generally mean GUI and TUI and stuff that runs from the local machine | 16:23 |
| moreati | tartley_: yes | 16:23 |
| pinner | Yes, Q and I went to a Luke tutorial on Pyjamas | 16:23 |
| tartley_ | thx | 16:23 |
| tartley_ | +1 on web for now | 16:23 |
| pinner | Pyjamas is really interesting and useful, and Luke know it well, but there was no structure to the session | 16:23 |
| pinner | so we have to be quite strict with him | 16:24 |
| zeth | Should it really be 90 minutes? | 16:24 |
| lac | What we have time for, now, is to have classes in how to write your talk, or your tutorial, for the people who are accepted. | 16:24 |
| moreati | zeth has fixed the bio | 16:24 |
| lac | So we can help polish the Tutorial if we know what it would be better as. | 16:25 |
| pinner | so we accept Zen of Pyjamas and take a rain check on Pyjamas: Simple RIA Web apps ??? | 16:25 |
| lac | Do the two of you have any sense of how the tutorial could be made better than what you experienced? | 16:25 |
| pinner | lac: yes, mainly it needs planning and we can help him do that | 16:26 |
| lac | Then My vote is for accept both but with note that we want to help you plan the tutorial | 16:26 |
| lac | if Luke is the sort of person who will take that | 16:26 |
| zeth | I think talks should be 60 minutes or less generally | 16:27 |
| pinner | lac: I'll check that out with someone who knows him better from the Debian worls | 16:27 |
| tartley_ | zeth: <60mins sounds reasonable. Maybe split it in two? | 16:27 |
| lac | If they are longer, I have in the past broken them into 2 talks. | 16:27 |
| qwright | the UKUUG deteriorated into doing one of the Django tutorials | 16:27 |
| lac | Sometimes they split nicely into XXX for beginners and then Intermediate XXX | 16:27 |
| pinner | Some talks need 90 minutes, like Raymons Hettinger on Python 3, so don't get rid of it | 16:28 |
| lac | What I have done in the past with people who want a lot of time is ask for an outline of the talk | 16:28 |
| lac | (which I would like better than an abstract, anyway) | 16:28 |
| zeth | Well Hettinger is exceptional case | 16:28 |
| moreati | okay, then | 16:28 |
| lac | and then I can generally judge if there really is more than 30 minutes worth of material in there. | 16:29 |
| tartley_ | lac: is that so you can be confident they have planned out a good structure for such a lengthy time? | 16:29 |
| moreati | PROPOSAL: accept both, ask Luke to provide an outline of the tutorial | 16:29 |
| lac | yes | 16:29 |
| qwright | +1 | 16:29 |
| zeth | PROPOSAL: make it 60 mins for the talk | 16:29 |
| lac | also to find out they are completely disorgaqnised, and offer to help fix them. | 16:29 |
| pinner | zeth: he'll need 90, I think | 16:29 |
| lac | also some people I have doubts about a 30 minute talk, so I ask for an outline | 16:30 |
| lac | and they give this huge thing and I say, that's aboit enough material for 2 hours. | 16:30 |
| lac | and we work from there. | 16:30 |
| tartley_ | thx | 16:30 |
| zeth | Anyone in the UK that wants to practice, Python West Midlands can offer to have a preview session | 16:30 |
| zeth | where people practice | 16:30 |
| zeth | maybe other places can too | 16:30 |
| lac | sounds great. you can practice at GothPy if you are in Gothenburg, for sure. | 16:30 |
| moreati | zeth: or we just suggest to all accept speakers that they practise at their local LUG/PUG/whatever | 16:31 |
| zeth | yeah, that too | 16:31 |
| pinner | lac: do you need black clothes? | 16:31 |
| zeth | I would like to practice if I give a talk | 16:31 |
| lac | pinner: doesn't hurt :) | 16:31 |
| moreati | DECISION: accept both, request outline of tutotial from Luke | 16:31 |
| moreati | 3. qcake | 16:32 |
| lac | +1 | 16:32 |
| pinner | +1 | 16:32 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 16:32 |
| zeth | Don't need to vote for the decision | 16:32 |
| tartley_ | oh right. :-) | 16:32 |
| lac | Ok, I know Horst Jens | 16:33 |
| qwright | +1 | 16:33 |
| moreati | administrivia: vote when I say VOTE, DECISION means the case is closed | 16:33 |
| pinner | PROPOSAL: accept qcake | 16:33 |
| lac | He has developed a lot of pygame apps. | 16:33 |
| lac | He writes nice code. | 16:33 |
| zeth | qcake abstract, I would change "tell" to "present" | 16:33 |
| lac | I am interested to see what his new 3d app is like. | 16:34 |
| zeth | And change python to Python | 16:34 |
| moreati | zeth: agreed on both | 16:34 |
| pinner | I don't think we need to discuss this one further, let's vote | 16:34 |
| lac | +1 | 16:34 |
| moreati | VOTE accept qcake | 16:34 |
| moreati | +1 | 16:35 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 16:35 |
| pinner | +1 | 16:35 |
| moreati | VOTE ACCEPTED | 16:35 |
| zeth | +1 I have done the grammar changes | 16:35 |
| moreati | END VOTE | 16:35 |
| moreati | DECISION Accept qcake | 16:35 |
| moreati | TOPIC 4. Parallel Python | 16:35 |
| zeth | PROPOSAL: I am going to change python to Python in all cases | 16:35 |
| lac | zeth: +1 | 16:36 |
| zeth | (then I don't have to mention it everytime) | 16:36 |
| pinner | +1 | 16:36 |
| moreati | IDEA change title to mention PIPPER in title | 16:36 |
| lac | +1 | 16:36 |
| pinner | We have to have PPE | 16:36 |
| zeth | yup | 16:37 |
| moreati | lac: was that +1 accept or +1 change to Python or +1 PIPPER in title? | 16:37 |
| lac | PIPPER in title | 16:37 |
| lac | (I want to accept, to but with a reservation.) | 16:37 |
| lac | I want an outline. | 16:38 |
| qwright | and a photo? | 16:38 |
| tartley_ | I think PIPPER, not PPE. | 16:38 |
| moreati | Can't put PIPER in title, field too short | 16:38 |
| lac | This is one I fear will be too long for the suggested 30 minutes | 16:38 |
| qwright | it should be longer anyway | 16:38 |
| lac | unless by 'advanced' he means 'people who already know lots about parellel programming' | 16:38 |
| pinner | VOTE accept PIPPER - Parallel Python Environment, ask for outline | 16:39 |
| lac | I think this will end up as 2 talks. | 16:39 |
| qwright | +1 | 16:39 |
| moreati | IDEA: increase title field length by approx 20 chars | 16:39 |
| lac | 1. intro to parellel proramming | 16:39 |
| zeth | hang on | 16:39 |
| lac | and 2. PiPPER | 16:39 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 16:39 |
| tartley_ | good idea | 16:39 |
| zeth | +1 to PIpper | 16:39 |
| lac | but that is just what i THINK | 16:39 |
| lac | so +1 to PiPPER, but ask for outline | 16:39 |
| zeth | There is snappy title, and one-line title | 16:39 |
| pinner | moreati: we've kept a short title so it can be printed sensibly and not take up too much space in the Schedule | 16:39 |
| zeth | snappy title is short | 16:39 |
| zeth | so we can generate the stubs and urls and stuff | 16:40 |
| moreati | i withdraw the idea | 16:40 |
| tartley_ | I see. makes sense. | 16:40 |
| moreati | +1 | 16:40 |
| pinner | +1 | 16:40 |
| moreati | END VOTE | 16:41 |
| moreati | Decision Accept PIPPER | 16:41 |
| moreati | TOPIC TurboGears reborn | 16:41 |
| qwright | should be DECISION | 16:41 |
| moreati | DECISION Accept PIPPER | 16:42 |
| zeth | I am just going through and correcting obvious grammar/spelling errors. | 16:42 |
| zeth | hope no one minds that | 16:42 |
| tartley_ | Sounds good. | 16:42 |
| pinner | Turbogears from Mark Ramm: a must have, but 30 minutes may not be enough | 16:42 |
| moreati | zeth: np | 16:42 |
| lac | so we ask for outline again | 16:42 |
| qwright | it isn't enough, I can imagine questions taking at least 10 minutes | 16:43 |
| qwright | as there have been so many changes to get to TG2 | 16:43 |
| pinner | IDEA we tell Mark we're accepting, but we think he needs 45 minutes | 16:43 |
| lac | well, around here at any rate we thought TG was dead and you had to use Pylons instead | 16:44 |
| lac | so he may have more explaining to do that he thinks | 16:44 |
| moreati | VOTE accept at 45 mins | 16:44 |
| qwright | +1 | 16:44 |
| lac | +1 | 16:44 |
| pinner | +1 | 16:44 |
| moreati | +1 | 16:44 |
| moreati | END VOTE | 16:44 |
| tartley_ | oop | 16:45 |
| moreati | DECISION Accept tg talk at 45 mins | 16:45 |
| tartley_ | would have been +1 | 16:45 |
| moreati | TOPIC Reliable websites in Python | 16:45 |
| lac | I think we need to ask this person to explain his talk more. | 16:46 |
| qwright | I don't really understand what the content is - is he going to talk about frameworks? | 16:46 |
| lac | or testing suites? | 16:46 |
| lac | or .... | 16:46 |
| qwright | !!!!! | 16:46 |
| tartley_ | so would an outline help address that? | 16:46 |
| zeth | I think make sites reliabile | 16:46 |
| zeth | reliability | 16:46 |
| lac | an outline would, but in any case he needs to rewrite his abstract | 16:47 |
| zeth | making reliable sites rather than flakey ones | 16:47 |
| moreati | last sentance makes it sounds like his experiences, rather than a particular project | 16:47 |
| lac | yes, this may be a talk of war stories. | 16:47 |
| lac | they can be fun | 16:47 |
| lac | but the abstract needs to make it clear. | 16:47 |
| qwright | We need to know roughly what tools or techniques he's going to recommend - or is it going to be higher level+ | 16:47 |
| qwright | ? | 16:47 |
| pinner | lac: agreed | 16:48 |
| lac | I agree with qwright | 16:48 |
| qwright | lac: I agree with you! | 16:48 |
| pinner | VOTE Ask Andreas for more info before accepting | 16:48 |
| qwright | +1 | 16:48 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 16:48 |
| moreati | +1 | 16:48 |
| zeth | -1 | 16:48 |
| zeth | I think it is obvious? | 16:48 |
| zeth | "Tips, tricks, and strategies for making your Python web sites reliable and stress-free" | 16:48 |
| zeth | it is about whatever framework you have, making it reliable | 16:49 |
| zeth | stress free is a bit marketing speal | 16:49 |
| pinner | zeth: he needs to say that | 16:49 |
| zeth | speal == spiel | 16:49 |
| pinner | any more votes? | 16:50 |
| lac | +1 | 16:50 |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 16:50 |
| pinner | DECISION Ask Andreas for more info before accepting | 16:50 |
| pinner | TOPIC Python ain't no snake oil | 16:51 |
| zeth | DECISION was Accepting subject to more comprehensive abstract | 16:51 |
| lac | What we need is a volunteer to help Harald write abstracts | 16:51 |
| lac | I can volunteer for this if you like. I have done this before. | 16:51 |
| qwright | [snake oil]This should be entertaining | 16:52 |
| zeth | then == than ? | 16:52 |
| zeth | What does this mean? | 16:52 |
| zeth | "It is far more beneficial to use Python then being free as in beer." | 16:52 |
| moreati | zeth: yes | 16:52 |
| pinner | qwright: he's always entertaining | 16:52 |
| tartley_ | Is Harald non-native English speaker? | 16:53 |
| lac | very much so | 16:53 |
| zeth | He speaks better than he writes it seems | 16:53 |
| moreati | "There is far more benefit to Python then just being free as in beer." | 16:53 |
| pinner | VOTE accept Python ain't no snake oil, work with Harald to improve English | 16:53 |
| lac | he speaks far better than he writes. | 16:53 |
| tartley_ | alright then. | 16:53 |
| pinner | +1 | 16:53 |
| moreati | s/just/merely/ | 16:53 |
| lac | +1 | 16:53 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 16:53 |
| moreati | +1 | 16:53 |
| qwright | +1 | 16:53 |
| moreati | tartley_: surely that's alright than? :) | 16:53 |
| tartley_ | :-) away 10 secs, powercord | 16:54 |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 16:54 |
| zeth | I already did a little editing | 16:54 |
| pinner | DECISION accept Python ain't no snake oil, work with Harald to improve English | 16:54 |
| zeth | "There is far more to Python than just being free as in beer. As well as the positive aspects on your mental health and your sexual powers,..." | 16:54 |
| tartley_ | back | 16:55 |
| zeth | Yeah, I can work with Harald if he needs help, as I have a masters in editing | 16:55 |
| pinner | TOPIC Pythonic Filesystem APIs | 16:55 |
| zeth | It is not easy if English is not your first language | 16:55 |
| pinner | zeth: on the sexual powers? | 16:55 |
| zeth | Sadly no masters in sexual powers. | 16:55 |
| pinner | Tommi always does a good talk | 16:55 |
| zeth | Maybe I need to do that next | 16:56 |
| zeth | Tommi is really good | 16:56 |
| lac | His abstract is not, however. | 16:56 |
| pinner | I think the Abstract needs expanding | 16:56 |
| lac | He needs to outline what he is presenting for people who didn | 16:56 |
| lac | 't make his talk last year | 16:56 |
| moreati | lac: indeed | 16:57 |
| zeth | yup | 16:57 |
| tartley_ | right. I wasn't at EP2008, so I don't really know what this talk is about. | 16:57 |
| zeth | "Continuation to "My God, it's Full of Files" from EP2008" is not much use if one does not own a time machine. | 16:57 |
| moreati | The amusing 2001 refernce can stay though | 16:57 |
| qwright | He could say what has been achieved so far | 16:57 |
| zeth | I did go to the talk | 16:57 |
| pinner | VOTE Ask Tommi for a more detailed abstract | 16:57 |
| qwright | +1 | 16:57 |
| moreati | =1 | 16:57 |
| moreati | +1 | 16:57 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 16:58 |
| zeth | yeah, tell him we provisionally accept though | 16:58 |
| lac | +1 | 16:58 |
| zeth | so it does not sound harsh | 16:58 |
| pinner | +1 | 16:58 |
| pinner | zeth: how can we accept something we know nothing about? | 16:58 |
| zeth | I get the point from the abstract because I went to the previous talk | 16:58 |
| lac | well, one nice thing is that if we get too crowded, we have his permission to bump him to LT | 16:59 |
| zeth | but the abstract needs to reflect it explicitly | 16:59 |
| zeth | Well I think we should keep it anyway | 16:59 |
| zeth | as it is a good subject | 16:59 |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 16:59 |
| zeth | Filesystem access is a problem we all have | 16:59 |
| lac | historically, EP has not has a problem of 'too many talks' but rather 'too few' | 17:00 |
| zeth | yeah, we can always book another room | 17:00 |
| pinner | DECISION Ask Tommi for a more detailed abstract | 17:00 |
| lac | being in England may change this, as many people just do not want to present in their not native language | 17:00 |
| * moreati lurks for the nest talk | 17:00 | |
| pinner | TOPIC Pythonic Filesystem APIs | 17:00 |
| moreati | *next | 17:00 |
| lac | and I will expect this EP to have disproportionally large number of English native speakers with talks | 17:00 |
| qwright | lac:agreed | 17:01 |
| lac | but I still think that we can assume that we will get around to accepting pretty much any talk | 17:01 |
| lac | that anyubody is willing to work hard at to fix. | 17:01 |
| qwright | lac:agreed | 17:01 |
| zeth | yep | 17:01 |
| pinner | COO | 17:01 |
| pinner | CORRECTION | 17:01 |
| zeth | So we should present them as provisional acceptance to encourage people (and, more importantly, to encourage them to book) | 17:01 |
| pinner | TOPIC ArcGIS and IronPython | 17:02 |
| tartley_ | moreati: Is this yours then. I hadn't realised. I used to be in GIS (wife still is) and am very interested. | 17:02 |
| qwright | We should accept them and ask for more detail | 17:02 |
| qwright | who is this willmer guy? | 17:02 |
| zeth | lol | 17:02 |
| moreati | tartley_: yes, this is mine. I will abstain for this | 17:02 |
| qwright | I think we should grudgingly accept this one | 17:02 |
| pinner | pity it's not multi-platform | 17:02 |
| qwright | he says and Linux | 17:03 |
| pinner | ironpython != Linux | 17:03 |
| lac | I think that we should accept this talk, and I think that we should tell this person to teach a course in 'how to write abstracts' | 17:03 |
| lac | because he has a good one. :) | 17:03 |
| qwright | smile | 17:03 |
| * pinner grins | 17:03 | |
| zeth | yeah it is a good abstracr | 17:03 |
| zeth | t | 17:03 |
| pinner | VOTE Accept ArcGIS and IronPython | 17:04 |
| zeth | He even wrote Python with a capital P | 17:04 |
| qwright | +1 | 17:04 |
| zeth | +1 | 17:04 |
| pinner | +1 | 17:04 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 17:04 |
| lac | '+1 | 17:04 |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 17:04 |
| pinner | DECISION ArcGIS and IronPython accepted | 17:04 |
| * moreati grins like a Cheshire cat | 17:04 | |
| pinner | DECISION moreati to do short talk, Open Space, whatever on writing abstracts | 17:05 |
| tartley_ | for the dim amongst us: good abstract b/c? clearly explains what topic is, what he will talk about, what listeners will get out of it. | 17:05 |
| lac | +1 | 17:05 |
| moreati | lac: I'll do an LT on 'Getting your talk accepted, from an insider' | 17:05 |
| tartley_ | am i missing anything? | 17:05 |
| pinner | TOPIC Failsome Django | 17:06 |
| qwright | word(s) missing in bibliography: Siu Design, which is a design/django .....? | 17:06 |
| pinner | tartley_: ? | 17:06 |
| tartley_ | I was attempting to make sure i understood why lac felt moreati's abstract was a good one. | 17:06 |
| lac | tartley: yes that is why I think it was a good one. | 17:07 |
| tartley_ | cool. thx. | 17:07 |
| zeth | I don't like the abstract to the failsome Django talk | 17:07 |
| qwright | [Failsome Django]:Sounds a good talk to me, will be popular couldn't he have a 1hr slot | 17:07 |
| lac | I don't like the title. | 17:07 |
| zeth | I think it is all spiel | 17:08 |
| lac | then we need an outline. | 17:08 |
| qwright | Should be "Success with Django" | 17:08 |
| lac | because either this is a very solid talk (which needs more time) | 17:08 |
| zeth | This is the first one I don't like, even though I am big Django fan. | 17:08 |
| tartley_ | common pitfalls and commonly overlooked best practices sounds interesting, if that is what it is | 17:08 |
| lac | or 'Pitfalls in developing with Django' | 17:08 |
| moreati | 'Avoiding FAIL, with Django'? | 17:08 |
| pinner | Robert Lofthouse is fairly influential in the European Django community | 17:08 |
| qwright | or "How to suceed with Django"+ | 17:08 |
| qwright | ? | 17:09 |
| zeth | It is a too vague abstract, you cannot tell if you want to go to it or not | 17:09 |
| lac | its not how to succeed. Its now not to screw up. | 17:09 |
| moreati | lac: that is an important distinction | 17:09 |
| qwright | Alright: "How not to Screw Up with Django" | 17:09 |
| zeth | What are the 'issues'? What are the 'misunderstandings' ? | 17:09 |
| tartley_ | qwright: I like that | 17:09 |
| moreati | qwright: that won't fit in the title field | 17:09 |
| zeth | The abstract is not useful enough | 17:10 |
| tartley_ | zeth: yes clarifying those would help a lot | 17:10 |
| pinner | So we should ask him to put a positive spin on it, at the moement it's negative | 17:10 |
| lac | zeth is correct. | 17:10 |
| lac | pinner: no, I think this is a very negative talk | 17:10 |
| qwright | "Screwing Up with Django" | 17:10 |
| zeth | VOTE: Ask him to give a more specific abstract | 17:10 |
| qwright | +1 | 17:10 |
| zeth | +1 | 17:10 |
| lac | But maybe calling it Pitfalls | 17:10 |
| tartley_ | i don't think removing the negative is reqd, since train wrecks are fun to watch, but positive *as well* | 17:10 |
| pinner | +1 | 17:10 |
| qwright | Accept his talk | 17:10 |
| moreati | +1 | 17:10 |
| qwright | Disastrous Django | 17:10 |
| lac | I needed a dictionary to find out what Failsome was | 17:11 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 17:11 |
| zeth | I like q's title | 17:11 |
| tartley_ | i had assumed it was a made up word | 17:11 |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 17:11 |
| tartley_ | i also like q's title | 17:11 |
| lac | He may be too proper a gentleman to like 'screw' | 17:11 |
| lac | +1 | 17:11 |
| pinner | DECISION Ask Robert Lofthouse to give a more specific abstract | 17:12 |
| qwright | wikipedia: No page with that title exists. | 17:12 |
| moreati | tartley_: providing no one mistakes it for an Ubuntu rrelease :) | 17:12 |
| pinner | TOPIC The PicklingTools Library | 17:12 |
| moreati | abstract jumps in too deep, what are m2k, x-midas, XMPY etc? | 17:13 |
| lac | The one line version is not accurate | 17:13 |
| lac | So we need to work on the abstract. | 17:14 |
| qwright | and the summary | 17:14 |
| pinner | So it's all about multi-language xmlrpc-like data transfers using Python pickles? | 17:15 |
| lac | The 'major goal' paragrph would work better as the FIRST paragraph | 17:15 |
| pinner | looks useful | 17:15 |
| lac | pinner: yes. | 17:15 |
| qwright | He is prepared to travel from Az - we should encourage him | 17:15 |
| zeth | I think the submission form I made last year was better than the form I made this year. I think the problem is the css that has been added to it, it made the abstract box too small. | 17:15 |
| lac | zeth: can you change it now for the future submissions? | 17:16 |
| lac | (where now is a relative term ... :) ) | 17:16 |
| zeth | Yeah | 17:16 |
| zeth | I think I should | 17:16 |
| pinner | I think we should accept it, with a more meaningful title | 17:16 |
| lac | I think we should accept it with a more meaningful title, and ask for the abstract to be reworked | 17:17 |
| pinner | I we had a committee comments box, we could be using it now. | 17:17 |
| moreati | okay, call a vote | 17:17 |
| zeth | PROPOSAL: make the abstract box bigger and wider in the submission form | 17:17 |
| tartley_ | I noticed he asked in 'any other comments' when he might hear back. Should I drop him a friendly email, or will the output of this meeting cover that? | 17:17 |
| zeth | send the email | 17:18 |
| pinner | VOTE Accept PicklingTools with a more meaningful title, and ask for the abstract to be reworked | 17:18 |
| moreati | +1 | 17:18 |
| pinner | +1 | 17:18 |
| lac | +1 | 17:18 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 17:18 |
| moreati | qwright: PING | 17:18 |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 17:19 |
| pinner | DECISION Accept PicklingTools with a more meaningful title, and ask for the abstract to be reworked | 17:19 |
| pinner | TOPIC Python & CouchDB | 17:20 |
| lac | tartley_: tell him his abstract style is too academic for this con. but tactfully. | 17:20 |
| tartley_ | Can do. Master of constructive manipulation, at your service. :-) | 17:20 |
| moreati | His abstract is almost an outline, needs a para or so to introduce what CouchDB is | 17:20 |
| zeth | The CouchDB is a list | 17:20 |
| zeth | It needs to be in paragraphs. | 17:20 |
| pinner | There's nothing which says what CouchDB is | 17:21 |
| lac | yes. we need to get him to make an abstract. For this guy, we mail him moreati's abstrakt | 17:21 |
| lac | and say 'make one like this' | 17:21 |
| moreati | Is the length 30 min, is that appropriate? | 17:21 |
| lac | no, it is too short | 17:21 |
| zeth | 30 mins is okay | 17:21 |
| pinner | lac: abstrakt, or strakt ab ;-) | 17:22 |
| tartley_ | But he doesn't have update access to it at this time, is that right? | 17:22 |
| lac | >If your company name was ab strakt (not strakt ab) for 8 years | 17:22 |
| tartley_ | In fact, all the feedback we're deciding upon today, who's going to send it and how do they act upon it? Sorry if this was covered. | 17:22 |
| lac | then you will never be able to spell abstract reliably again. :) | 17:22 |
| zeth | well they cannot all be 60 mins, otherwise someone who dislikes a talk 10 minutes in, has to wait and be bored for 50 mins until the next hour. | 17:22 |
| lac | which is why this one needs to be split into 2 talks, I think. | 17:23 |
| zeth | tartley_: this was not covered | 17:23 |
| lac | Intro -- for 30 mnutes | 17:23 |
| tartley_ | can wait, not urgent | 17:23 |
| zeth | tartley_: maybe we finish the current run through first | 17:23 |
| tartley_ | ok | 17:23 |
| lac | and whatever is left over | 17:23 |
| lac | at any rate his list right now is too long for 30 minutes. | 17:23 |
| lac | He needs either to shorten his talk or to have more time. | 17:24 |
| moreati | suggesting to mikeal 2x30 mins talks instead feels right to mr | 17:24 |
| moreati | *me | 17:24 |
| lac | Since he is coming from USA, giving 2 talks is un likely to be a problem for him | 17:24 |
| pinner | before and after a break | 17:24 |
| zeth | have the 2 talks on different days, then it will be easier | 17:25 |
| pinner | VOTE Tell Mikeal we're accepting his talk, but want to discuss splitting it into 2/make it longer | 17:25 |
| lac | +1 | 17:25 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 17:26 |
| zeth | or less material if he doesn't want | 17:26 |
| lac | and send him moreati's abstract | 17:26 |
| moreati | +1 caveat, if not 2x ask for single talk to be longer | 17:26 |
| lac | and say we want one like that. | 17:26 |
| qwright | +1 | 17:26 |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 17:27 |
| zeth | Maybe we should make a wiki page giving guidence on how to write an abstract | 17:27 |
| zeth | then we can send people the link to it | 17:27 |
| pinner | DECISION Tell Mikeal we're accepting his talk, but want to discuss splitting it into 2/make it longer | 17:27 |
| moreati | zeth: I'll take that as an action | 17:27 |
| tartley_ | moriati's caveat sounds good. | 17:27 |
| zeth | Maybe we should make a wiki page giving guidence on how to write a talk submission | 17:27 |
| pinner | zeth: you've volunteered | 17:27 |
| zeth | I think moreati is the favourite | 17:27 |
| moreati | zeth and I will work on it together | 17:27 |
| moreati | today | 17:28 |
| moreati | ACTION zeth and moreati to create advice to submitters wiki page | 17:28 |
| pinner | TOPIC Using Windmill | 17:28 |
| zeth | Windmill has the same issue, needs to be composed paragraphs not a list. | 17:29 |
| qwright | Mikeal again summary is truncated, abstract is a list.... | 17:29 |
| pinner | Same guy, same problem | 17:29 |
| lac | :) | 17:29 |
| zeth | So two talks on the other thing is not such a good idea | 17:29 |
| zeth | (stole that point from the open air) | 17:29 |
| zeth | So we can carry the same action for that and move on? | 17:30 |
| lac | it is interesting that he has time estimates | 17:30 |
| moreati | since we've already got 2 talks from him, 2x CouchDB may be too much | 17:30 |
| lac | we should ask if he has timed his talk. | 17:30 |
| zeth | Maybe he has done it before | 17:30 |
| zeth | so he knows the minutes | 17:30 |
| lac | because my expectation would be that 2 minutes on installing would be too short | 17:31 |
| tartley_ | unless he just plans to say 'download this egg, don't use easy_install' for various administrivial reasons. | 17:31 |
| zeth | Europython crowd interupt (positively) more than a usual audience | 17:31 |
| qwright | he's giving it and doing a sprint at PyCon | 17:31 |
| qwright | see http://www.getwindmill.com/ | 17:31 |
| lac | ah. yes. for next time I want to know if these talks have been given before on the form, and if so where. | 17:32 |
| pinner | At PyCon US they have short talks to squeeze them all in | 17:32 |
| zeth | lac: good idea | 17:32 |
| zeth | We could add this now to the form for new submissions also | 17:32 |
| pinner | lac: that could be added now for future submissions | 17:32 |
| lac | and because half of the people there have serrious attention defeceit disorder problems. There are many people saying 30 minutes is too long for a talk :) | 17:33 |
| tartley_ | I assume being given before is a good thing, audience won't overlap *too* much, and it implies the talk is somewhat more practiced and thought about as a result. | 17:33 |
| lac | that would be good | 17:33 |
| pinner | VOTE Tell him we're accepting Using Windmill, but ask for better abstract and time estimate | 17:33 |
| lac | better abstract, yes, but just ask him about the time | 17:33 |
| zeth | +1 | 17:33 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 17:33 |
| lac | +1 | 17:33 |
| pinner | +1 | 17:33 |
| lac | another thing to add to the form: | 17:34 |
| lac | 'are you planning to sprint on this topic'? | 17:34 |
| moreati | +1 | 17:34 |
| zeth | ACTION: zeth to add 'previously given and where' field to the form | 17:34 |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 17:34 |
| qwright | +1 | 17:34 |
| lac | +1 | 17:34 |
| pinner | DECISION Tell him we're accepting Using Windmill, but ask for better abstract and query time | 17:35 |
| pinner | TOPIC Python and Nuke | 17:35 |
| zeth | ACTION: zeth to add 'could you give a sprint on this topic' to the form | 17:35 |
| pinner | Better: he tells us what it is! | 17:35 |
| moreati | [nuke] abstract is good | 17:35 |
| qwright | wish I knew what a film pipeline was | 17:35 |
| zeth | I know what a film pipeline is, but only because I went to a talk about it in PyConUK 2007 | 17:36 |
| moreati | 'powerful compositiing' might be better as 'power video compositing' if that's what they mean. | 17:36 |
| zeth | yep to moreati | 17:36 |
| tartley_ | yep | 17:36 |
| pinner | there was lot of interest in this film stuff at PyCon UK | 17:37 |
| lac | for the zeth ACTION: I want to know if these people intend to give a sprint. So we don't schedule them agaisnt each otehr | 17:37 |
| zeth | yep | 17:37 |
| lac | because people who are still deciding want to see the intros to whatever they might sprint on | 17:37 |
| moreati | lac: you will be able to query that field, surely? | 17:37 |
| lac | no, there is a difference between 'will host a sprint on py.test if there is interest' and 'I intend to hold a sprint and this talk is something that would be sprinters should attend' | 17:38 |
| lac | so how do we phrase it on the form? | 17:38 |
| qwright | From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You searched for film pipeline Did you mean: film timeline? | 17:39 |
| pinner | lac: this would help get sprints, it's all too vague at the moment | 17:39 |
| pinner | VOTE Accept Python and Nuke, query time | 17:40 |
| moreati | +1 | 17:40 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 17:40 |
| pinner | +1 | 17:40 |
| zeth | +1 Yes get rid of all the bloody TCL | 17:41 |
| zeth | bane of my life | 17:41 |
| zeth | maybe that part of it should be a seperate talk | 17:41 |
| lac | +1 | 17:41 |
| *** tartley_ has left #europython | 17:41 | |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 17:41 |
| pinner | DECISION Accept Python and Nuke, query time | 17:42 |
| pinner | TOPIC hurry.resource | 17:42 |
| *** tartley_ has joined #europython | 17:42 | |
| zeth | The last line in the Nuke abstract says that he converted the app to TCL, that is very good topic of its own | 17:42 |
| moreati | horrible title, meaningless | 17:42 |
| zeth | The last line in the Nuke abstract says that he converted the app *from* TCL, that is very good topic of its own | 17:42 |
| zeth | Crap title | 17:43 |
| tartley_ | maybe he could LT on that? | 17:43 |
| zeth | I like titles to be something the attendee can get from it | 17:43 |
| qwright | [hurry]: how does this relate to pyjamas? | 17:43 |
| pinner | faassen usually has something good to say, we should accept | 17:43 |
| lac | the one line summary is better as the title | 17:43 |
| pinner | and ask him to do a tutorial on elementtree | 17:43 |
| qwright | lac:agreed | 17:44 |
| moreati | qwright: why would it relate to pyjamas? | 17:44 |
| tartley_ | one-line summary doesn't fit in title box | 17:44 |
| pinner | moreati: because of the Javascript | 17:44 |
| zeth | http://pypi.python.org/pypi/hurry.resource/ this sounds very different from our abstract here | 17:44 |
| pinner | would fit in well with Jonathan Fine's Python/Javascript stuff | 17:45 |
| zeth | Can we make the provisonal title "Flexible resources for web applications" | 17:45 |
| zeth | vague but better | 17:45 |
| lac | I think we need to ask Martijn for a new title | 17:45 |
| pinner | VOTE Accept hurry.resource, ask Faassen for new title | 17:46 |
| moreati | hurry.resource your web media | 17:46 |
| qwright | moreati:managing javascript | 17:46 |
| lac | zeth: its not about flexibility, i think, its about managing resources | 17:46 |
| moreati | qwright: too generic | 17:46 |
| qwright | moreati:agreed | 17:47 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 17:47 |
| qwright | +1 | 17:47 |
| lac | i.e. managing web resources with hurry.resource | 17:47 |
| moreati | lac: won't fit | 17:47 |
| moreati | +1 | 17:47 |
| pinner | +1 | 17:47 |
| zeth | I like moreati's topic | 17:48 |
| lac | Why is it more important that the short title be that short than we let them be a bit longer? | 17:48 |
| tartley_ | could we put a note on the submissions form next to that field, clarifying for submitters that this title is the one that will be used on the timetable to attract people to their talk? | 17:48 |
| lac | will it mess up the schedule formatting? | 17:48 |
| moreati | lac: I asked the same earlier, yes that was the jist | 17:48 |
| pinner | lac: I think your title is OK for length | 17:48 |
| zeth | yeah, snappy version of the title needs to be snappy | 17:48 |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 17:48 |
| zeth | hurry.resource sounds like a good project (with a crap name) and it could be good talk if given a little loving | 17:49 |
| pinner | DECISION Accept hurry.resource, ask Faassen for new title, eg 'managing web resources with hurry.resource' | 17:49 |
| pinner | TOPIC Introduction to IronPython | 17:49 |
| lac | Martijn's problem is that he is talking about hurry.resource (14 chars) not Grok (4 chars) this year | 17:49 |
| moreati | lac agreed | 17:49 |
| * pinner chuckles | 17:49 | |
| zeth | We have one talk trying to make us stress free, and another talk trying to get us to hurry | 17:50 |
| lac | how many chars can we give the authors, without ruining the schedule printing, and extent the form to be that long | 17:50 |
| moreati | [intro to ironpython] good abstract, done before, basic but useful, no reason not to accept, maybe at 45 mins | 17:50 |
| lac | moreati: +1 | 17:50 |
| pinner | tartley_: is 30 minutes enough? | 17:50 |
| moreati | lac: at a guess I'd say 60-80 chars | 17:51 |
| tartley_ | yes, fuzzy has a good routine for this down pat. | 17:51 |
| zeth | But is it cross-platform ;) | 17:51 |
| zeth | (joke) | 17:51 |
| zeth | VOTE accept fuzzywuzzy | 17:51 |
| pinner | VOTE accept Introduction to IronPython | 17:51 |
| moreati | it's cross platform-ish | 17:51 |
| lac | +1 | 17:51 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 17:51 |
| pinner | +1 | 17:51 |
| zeth | +1 | 17:51 |
| moreati | +1 | 17:52 |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 17:52 |
| pinner | DECISION accept Introduction to IronPython | 17:52 |
| pinner | TOPIC Developing with IronPython (Tutorial) | 17:52 |
| zeth | Same for tutorial? | 17:52 |
| lac | +1 | 17:52 |
| zeth | Can we just carry this one and move on? | 17:52 |
| * lac nods | 17:52 | |
| tartley_ | I'm going to be doing this with him, so I'm silent here | 17:53 |
| pinner | I think we know enough about this to accept it | 17:53 |
| zeth | +1 | 17:53 |
| * moreati also nods | 17:53 | |
| zeth | next | 17:53 |
| pinner | but would a full day be better ??? | 17:53 |
| zeth | Full day is a big commitment for the attendee | 17:53 |
| moreati | pinner: full day, unlees we have too many tutorials | 17:53 |
| zeth | But they would certainly go home having learnt something | 17:53 |
| pinner | tartley_: ? | 17:53 |
| tartley_ | well | 17:53 |
| lac | fuzzyman may want to attend tutorials | 17:54 |
| tartley_ | material is already prepared & being refined for a half day thing | 17:54 |
| tartley_ | when it was last presented (by fuzzy and someone else) it was LONGER than half a day | 17:54 |
| pinner | OK, leave it at half-day | 17:54 |
| tartley_ | so we've been working on cutting it down | 17:54 |
| pinner | we find that half-day for ordinary (multi-platform) Python is not enough | 17:55 |
| tartley_ | pinner: since there are teething issues keeping everyone on board through all the exercises? | 17:55 |
| zeth | well one platform per morning | 17:55 |
| zeth | VOTE Accept fuzzywuzzy IronPython tutorial of some length | 17:56 |
| lac | +1 | 17:56 |
| moreati | +1 he has to introduce himself as fuzzywuzzy | 17:56 |
| pinner | tartley_: you just can't cover everything in half a day | 17:56 |
| pinner | +1 | 17:56 |
| pinner | fuzzywuzzy is probably non-PC | 17:57 |
| zeth | +1 | 17:57 |
| tartley_ | pinner: acknowleged. He is Mac. I was gong to do Linux. We assume windows will be most straightforward case, and we one we are both very familiar wth. | 17:57 |
| zeth | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy-Wuzzy | 17:58 |
| pinner | tartley abstaining, I believe | 17:58 |
| zeth | fair enough | 17:58 |
| tartley_ | He did present this once before, as I say, and we have earmarked chunks to be removed to cut down to 3 hours. Have not yet run through it to verify new lenght, but that is on my todo list | 17:58 |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 17:58 |
| moreati | last one.. | 17:58 |
| pinner | DECISION Accept IronPython tutorial of some length | 17:58 |
| pinner | TOPIC DSL for Functional Testing | 17:59 |
| tartley_ | zeth: :-) | 17:59 |
| lac | We need a longer title | 17:59 |
| zeth | Direct Subscriber line? | 17:59 |
| lac | DSL says Direct .. | 17:59 |
| moreati | domain specific language | 17:59 |
| lac | ah zeth beat me to it. ) | 17:59 |
| tartley_ | Digital Signal Prcessing to me | 17:59 |
| lac | so we need to spell it out | 17:59 |
| moreati | tartley_: 'L' == 'P'? | 17:59 |
| tartley_ | ohyes. oops. | 18:00 |
| pinner | This one is very clear about what we're getting | 18:00 |
| zeth | Well it is in the one-line title | 18:00 |
| pinner | and he didn't need a bigger box for the abstract | 18:00 |
| zeth | Domain Specific Language | 18:00 |
| zeth | pinner: because he has thought about what he was doing | 18:00 |
| zeth | that is a lot to expect ;) | 18:00 |
| moreati | I've twaeked the abstract, please refresh before making any others | 18:00 |
| zeth | Can we just lose the first sentence? | 18:01 |
| zeth | It is spiel that makes the abstract a bit passive | 18:01 |
| pinner | Did anyone go to his talk last year? I missed it | 18:01 |
| tartley_ | zeth: agreed would be better without it | 18:02 |
| lac | He is crazy if he thinks he can get away with 5 minutes of questions with this crowd. | 18:02 |
| zeth | Or move it down a bit | 18:02 |
| *** qwright has quit IRC | 18:02 | |
| zeth | Okay I have moved it down | 18:02 |
| lac | but then he probably needs an open space section for questions in any case | 18:02 |
| pinner | VOTE Accept DSL for Functional Testing | 18:03 |
| zeth | 5 mins for questions is not enough with Europython | 18:03 |
| lac | +1 | 18:03 |
| zeth | +1 | 18:03 |
| pinner | +1 | 18:03 |
| moreati | +1 | 18:03 |
| tartley_ | +1 | 18:03 |
| pinner | ENDVOTE | 18:03 |
| pinner | DECISION Accept DSL for Functional Testing | 18:03 |
| zeth | Okay, lets now go back to what tartley_ was saying | 18:04 |
| lac | dividing up the submitters. | 18:04 |
| pinner | No we need to decide who dose what | 18:04 |
| pinner | Zeth and I will concentrate on the software | 18:04 |
| zeth | * Someone needs to write to everyone | 18:04 |
| lac | What works best, in my experience, is to divide the submitters up | 18:05 |
| lac | so that each one has a champion, and that person is responsible for writing to them. | 18:05 |
| zeth | * Someone needs to update the 'Approval status' in the django admin to match what we decided | 18:05 |
| lac | and working with them to get their talks improved enough to get into the con | 18:05 |
| tartley_ | If we split submitters, I'm happy to accept > 1/4, if John and Zeth are coding for it. | 18:05 |
| tartley_ | oh, I mean 1/n | 18:06 |
| moreati | 2 people, 1. Zen->Filesytems, 2. ArcGIS -> DSL | 18:06 |
| zeth | I do some recoding of the form as I promised above | 18:06 |
| lac | I will accept more, as well. | 18:06 |
| tartley_ | ok | 18:06 |
| tartley_ | Shall I take the first half? | 18:07 |
| zeth | When people touch the form, please update the "Approval status", Nothin should be 'new' | 18:07 |
| moreati | 2 people, 1. Zen->ArcGIS, 2. Failsom -> DSL is actually 50/50 | 18:07 |
| zeth | When people touch the talks, please update the "Approval status", Nothing should be 'new'. | 18:07 |
| moreati | qwright and pinner are taking the first one, Zen and Pyjamas, to liase and update | 18:08 |
| lac | if there any any people with a particular strong interest in any talks, they should take those submitters | 18:08 |
| zeth | I am not volunterring to contact anyone, but in the wiki page about how to write a talk, I will volunteer on there to help anyone with English. | 18:08 |
| pinner | ACTION qwright, pinner to deal with 1 and 2 (Pyjamas) | 18:09 |
| lac | +1 | 18:09 |
| pinner | ACTION Remainder divided between lac and tartley | 18:09 |
| pinner | ACTION moreati to do wiki page on submissions | 18:10 |
| lac | tartley I don't want NUKE, are you ok with it? | 18:10 |
| tartley_ | so thats: Tartley: QCAKE to Failsome, lac: Pickling to DSL ? | 18:10 |
| pinner | ACTION zeth to volunteer to help with English on wiki | 18:10 |
| tartley_ | sure I can take Nuke | 18:10 |
| pinner | ACTION zeth and pinner to update talks software | 18:11 |
| pinner | is that all? | 18:11 |
| zeth | Just as an ongoing thing if anyone is writing a submission and needs help with English composition | 18:11 |
| lac | you can give me one tartley, in exchange | 18:11 |
| pinner | zeth: pity about your spellin ;-) | 18:11 |
| zeth | Who is writing the minutes? | 18:11 |
| zeth | pinner: poor typist I am afriad | 18:12 |
| lac | including Harald's | 18:12 |
| zeth | afraid | 18:12 |
| pinner | zeth: nick's script | 18:12 |
| pinner | although the first part was not structured enough | 18:12 |
| tartley_ | lac: Yeah, was just perusing. Trade you for 'Reliable Python Web sites' | 18:12 |
| lac | fine by me. | 18:12 |
| pinner | TOPIC next meeting | 18:13 |
| lac | Ok, if we can get a list of the actions, I can go off and write my sheep. How do I indicate that I have done this | 18:13 |
| lac | and what mailing list should I send correspondence cc'd to | 18:13 |
| pinner | I don't think we need decide this at the moment, at the next ep-improve IRC | 18:14 |
| pinner | lac: I think we have a european-talks list | 18:14 |
| * pinner goes to check... | 18:14 | |
| tartley_ | right, was about to ask about cc: too, to close our internal feedback look | 18:14 |
| tartley_ | loop | 18:14 |
| pinner | yes, europython-talks@python.org | 18:15 |
| lac | Ok, we cc things there. | 18:15 |
| lac | wait | 18:15 |
| * pinner goes to check the members, is it just organisers... | 18:15 | |
| lac | who is on this list? | 18:15 |
| lac | pinner had the same thought I had :) | 18:15 |
| pinner | OK, we have pedronis, lac, dboddie, harald and moreati | 18:18 |
| lac | pedronis can be removed | 18:18 |
| tartley_ | ok I'll go sign up. | 18:18 |
| lac | harald isn | 18:19 |
| pinner | we should add tartley and zeth | 18:19 |
| lac | isn't helping this year either | 18:19 |
| lac | and pinner | 18:19 |
| pinner | lac: yes, forgot me | 18:19 |
| lac | dboddie? | 18:19 |
| pinner | lac: yes | 18:19 |
| lac | and qwright? | 18:20 |
| pinner | lac: is pedronis like to be active, he didn't seem able to do a lot last year | 18:20 |
| lac | his father died 3 days ago | 18:20 |
| lac | I don't want to pester him about anything in the forseeable future | 18:20 |
| lac | So I think he can help at the event -- but organising wise, count him out. | 18:21 |
| lac | s/3 days ago/ 5 days ago/ | 18:21 |
| pinner | lac: so we take him off the list for now? | 18:21 |
| lac | please do | 18:21 |
| tartley_ | do I need to sign myself up, is it open subscription, or will you magically add me? | 18:22 |
| pinner | lac: give him my sympathies, it isn't good | 18:22 |
| pinner | tartley_: I'll put you on now (ish) | 18:22 |
| pinner | tartley_: what email address | 18:22 |
| tartley_ | fine. I won't get to look at it until tomorrrow | 18:22 |
| lac | pinner: I will when he gets back to Sweden | 18:22 |
| tartley_ | tartley at tartley doot com | 18:22 |
| pinner | lac: should harald be there? | 18:23 |
| tartley_ | thx | 18:23 |
| lac | pinner: are we accepting LTs in advance? if so yes, if not no | 18:23 |
| pinner | lac: no | 18:23 |
| lac | then he doesn't look like a talk volunteer to me. | 18:24 |
| tartley_ | I may have to give my apologies and duck out very soon. Is there much else, do we think? | 18:24 |
| lac | tartley_: i do not think so, and if something happens I will mail you about it, ok? | 18:25 |
| pinner | tartley_: not much | 18:25 |
| tartley_ | I shall consult with lac on my first response, just as a sanity check. | 18:25 |
| lac | me likewise | 18:25 |
| lac | with you. | 18:25 |
| tartley_ | very cool. thanks all. Have a good weekend everybody. | 18:25 |
| pinner | tartley and zeth are on the list; harald and samuele are off | 18:25 |
| tartley_ | thanks john | 18:25 |
| lac | qwright? | 18:25 |
| pinner | we should ask dboddie if he's going to be involved | 18:25 |
| pinner | lac: he's left, I'll ask him if he wants to remain involved on Monday | 18:26 |
| lac | this list must be an 'approved people only | 18:26 |
| lac | list' | 18:26 |
| lac | since we may have to say 'your talk stinks' | 18:26 |
| lac | (though politer) | 18:26 |
| tartley_ | alright, I have to leave. Thanks and bye! :-) | 18:27 |
| *** tartley_ has quit IRC | 18:27 | |
| lac | Ok, will you send the actions to the talk mailing list? | 18:28 |
| pinner | lac: I think it's a private list, but I can't see where this is set just now | 18:28 |
| pinner | I think we've finished, but can carry on after on general things if need be | 18:29 |
| pinner | #endmeeting | 18:29 |
| *** lenscape has joined #europython | 18:30 | |
| pinner | lac: the list requires confirmation and approval, so the administrator has control, and the list is not advertised, so I thinks | 18:32 |
| pinner | lac: think that's OK | 18:32 |
| lac | Ok, good. I was asking jacob to try to subscribe to it | 18:33 |
| lac | but I cannot find a subscription url | 18:33 |
| lac | can you paste one in here so he can try it out? | 18:34 |
| lac | who is the list maintainer? | 18:34 |
| pinner | lac: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython-talks | 18:35 |
| lac | thanks | 18:35 |
| pinner | lac: me, you, pedronis and pboddie | 18:35 |
| lac | take pedronis off that too | 18:36 |
| lac | the last thing he needs is to have to approve zillions of mails -- replies from the people we talk with, | 18:36 |
| pinner | lac: OK, done | 18:36 |
| lac | thank you | 18:37 |
| pinner | lac: anything else? | 18:37 |
| lac | I'm fine with everything now, but I need the ep-talks admin password | 18:37 |
| pinner | lac: have a good weekend, I'll mail it | 18:38 |
| lac | thank you again, and you too have a great weekend | 18:38 |
| pinner | lac: done | 18:39 |
| * pinner waves goodbye | 18:39 | |
| *** pinner has quit IRC | 18:40 | |
| *** lac has quit IRC | 18:42 | |
| *** moreati has quit IRC | 20:17 | |
| *** CMooney has quit IRC | 20:31 | |
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