IRC log of #europython for Tuesday, 2009-01-13

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pinnerGood Evening all, and a Happy New Year!20:00
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qwrighthello!!20:01
Jonathan_Hartleyhey everyone20:01
pinnerHello Tartley20:01
qwrightHi Jonathan20:01
zethGood Evening Everyone20:02
pinnerShock!20:02
qwrightHi Zeth - good to see that you could make it20:02
pinnerHello Zeth!20:02
fuzzymanHere - hello everyone20:02
fuzzymanHi Zeth20:02
* ThomasWaldmann notices intelligent life in the channel :)20:03
pinnerhello Michael20:03
qwrightHi Michael20:03
ThomasWaldmannmoin *20:03
pinnerHello Thomas, thanks for setting up the new moin20:03
ThomasWaldmannno problem :)20:04
pinnerThomasWaldmann: Any news from TheSheep on the Python.org wiki theme?20:05
ThomasWaldmannno20:05
fuzzymanThere were questions asked on the pydotorg mailing list and it was explicitly said that it was ok to use it20:06
fuzzymanTim Parkin was asking - although about another project I believe20:06
zeththey will what for a year and a half and then make a fuss ;)20:06
zeth          wait20:06
xorAxAxpinner: do you plan to theme the ep wiki with it?20:07
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pinnerfuzzyman: Yes it was all cleared weeks ago. TheSheep ww20:07
zeth(bad joke for people not in UK)20:07
pinnersorry: TheSheep was going to look at actually implementing the wiki theme.20:07
pinnerOK, we've waited 10 minutes, so let's start. I've not received any apologies.20:08
pinnerxorAxAx: yes20:09
pinnerxorAxAx: sorry, who are you?20:09
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TheSheepmoin20:10
pinnerIf there are no  more apologies, let's look at the last meeting actions20:10
ThomasWaldmannhi TheSheep20:10
pinnerHello Radomir20:10
pinnerI mailed previous EP and PyConUK speakers and some interest has been generated20:11
fuzzymancool20:11
pinnerfuzzyman: what were the results of your actions?20:11
fuzzymanI got a news posting on Python.org20:11
fuzzymanI have permission to post an entry on the PyCon blog20:12
pinnergood20:12
pinnerbetter still20:12
fuzzymanI posted my intended wording to the mailing list20:12
fuzzymanif I get no objections I'll post it as is20:12
fuzzymanoh, and Jim Hugunin agreed to do a keynote20:12
pinnerfuzzyman: yes I just read it, I'd like to play down the PyCon UK bit though20:12
zethI missed the last meeting and was probably assigned some actions. If so I did not do them, but please remind me and I do them today.20:12
fuzzymanpinner: ok20:12
zethfuzzyman: Well done on the keynotes.20:13
pinnerfuzzyman: great news on Jim, and I believe it's now confirmed?20:13
fuzzymanpinner: yes - he has confirmed20:13
pinnerI've had confirmation that Prof Sir Tony Hoare is doing a keynote as well20:13
pinnerAnd fuzzyman had earlier confirmation from Cory Doctorow I believe20:14
pinnerSo that's 3 confirmed keynotes.20:14
Jonathan_Hartleyfuzzyman: remind me for future scheduling's sake, what day did Cory say was the only day he could make it?20:15
pinnerI spoken to Guido and he's not keen on repeating the stress of a VC keynote or talk20:15
fuzzymanfirst day I believe20:15
fuzzymanI'll need to check20:15
Jonathan_Hartleythx20:15
qwrightfuzzyman: only comment about the intended wording is that the tutorial dates could be identified20:16
pinnerbut I dare say he might agree to a 5 minute Skype 'Hi, sorry I can't come, have a good conference'20:16
zethWhat a fantastic set of keynotes we have.20:16
fuzzymanCory said he could speak on the 30th20:17
fuzzymanqwright: ok20:17
fuzzymanI'll update my  wording and re-email20:17
pinnerSteve Holden is trying to get funding from the PSF to come and give a keynote/talk evangelising the PSF, he'd make a good after-dinner speaker as well I guess20:17
pinnerSo Keynotes are well in hand and I don't think we need any more action there for now20:17
pinnerJust use them in the publicity.20:18
zethYes, once we find out about Holden, I think someone should draft an annoucement to go out to the lists again.20:18
pinnerThe other action oustanding is europython.org domain: there's been no action and we need mal for that20:19
pinnerzeth: we don't need to wait for Steve's decision, what we have already is hot.20:19
zethWell, I think we don't need to play our hand until booking is open.20:20
zethBut then use our keynotes in the announcement of booking opening20:20
fuzzymanshame about europython.org -20:20
pinnerzeth: good thinking, agreed20:20
fuzzymandon't know if there is any point in going into it here20:20
fuzzymanwe could apply for a trademark... :-)20:20
zethwell it works enough with redirect to .eu20:20
fuzzymanoh20:21
fuzzymanwe have a redirect in place20:21
fuzzymanthat's new - and is good20:21
Jonathan_Hartleyi didn't know that either. cool. it works too!20:21
zethNot so new, but .eu is already the top in google20:21
pinnerzeth: but bthat server is going, and the mx record doesn't go to anywhere sensible or controllable20:21
zethah yes, that is true20:21
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zeththat is a problem20:22
pinnerzeth: so I will chase that up with mal, who had talked with Herr Reulbach about it.20:22
ThomasWaldmannbtw, I have a question / remark about hotel room booking (but don't let me disturb your agenda :)20:22
pinnerOK, let's move onto the wiki20:22
zethGoogle, MSN and Yahoo have .eu at the top of results for Europython20:23
zethSo it would not be the end of the world20:23
pinnerTheSheep: I think Thomas dropped the python.org theme on you, have you managed to look at it?20:23
ThomasWaldmannbtw, I can help you a bit getting a better pagerank :) I'll could just list your wiki on moinmo.in main page. :)20:25
pinnerThomasWaldmann: yes, please!20:25
pinnerzeth: you and pboddie were delegated to update the wiki from last year's Ep and PyCon UK wikis as appropriate. Has anything happened?20:26
zethah that was it20:26
zethsorry no, I look at it over a beer tonight20:26
qwrightJonathan has put up a VolunteersByActivity I guess we should add some activities and add ourselves?20:27
zeth(Mon-Tue is my main work days at Uni, so I am allowed a beer on Tuesday ;)20:27
pinnerJonathan_Hartley: thanks for your copious input. Don't appreciate the BDIP though ;-)20:27
Jonathan_HartleyHa.Sorry. Fuzzy made me do that. The page is speculative - I intended to announce it ans see if people think it's a useful idea20:27
pinnerzeth: is there any work at Uni on any day. Just joking.20:27
qwrightMaybe just BD?20:27
zethpinner: ;)20:27
fuzzymanWe've just an email apology by email from Ciaran20:28
Jonathan_Hartleyqwright: ok, can do.20:28
fuzzymanemail by email no less20:28
zethemail that Ciaran can't come to this meeting or the conference?20:28
pinnerqwright: like this!20:29
fuzzymanthis meeting20:29
fuzzymanI suggested malevolent dictator20:29
qwrightJonathan_Hartley: No Jonathan you don't need to add stuff - the rest of us have to do it!!20:29
pinnerfuzzyman: I could role play20:29
fuzzyman:-)20:29
zethpinner in a nurses outfit is too much for the europeans I think20:30
zethor not that kind of role-play ;)20:30
Jonathan_Hartleyis this on the agenda?20:30
Jonathan_Hartley:-)20:30
pinnerSo let's be clear: Zeth will update local-specific stuff on the wiki and we'll ask pboddie to do the same for EP-specific stuff before the next meeting?20:30
ThomasWaldmann[[http://wiki.europython2009.eu/|EuroPython Wiki]]  OK?20:30
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zethThomasWaldmann: lovely20:31
pinnerThomasWaldmann: wiki.europython.eu might be better20:31
ThomasWaldmannok20:32
pinnerAnd the rest of us can update stuff as needed, OK20:32
zethCan the bottom bar with "More actions" and so on be white?20:32
qwrightHi Jacob!20:32
jacob22qwright: Hi!20:32
pinnerzeth: you need to ask TheSheep20:32
pinnerjacob22: Hello! Happy New Year! How are you?20:33
zethno big deal, but the bottom blue seems a little distracting on short pages. However, life is too short probably.20:33
jacob22pinner: Happy New year. I'm ok, though very much out of sync. Just woke up.20:33
qwrightzeth: I like the light blue!!20:33
pinnerjacob22: understood20:34
fuzzymanlight blue looks fine to me20:34
zethfine fine20:34
pinnerzeth: you should look at wiki.python.org to see the style proposed.20:34
ThomasWaldmannbtw, the wiki should get a link from the ep.eu main page20:34
pinnerThomasWaldmann: we were waiting for the styling before putting in the link, so it would help if we knew when/if we'd get it.20:35
zethpinner: are you tracking stats for europython website? If so then it would be good to look at the most important incoming links to see that they are .eu not .org20:36
pinnerOK, so with the the exception of the styling, we've finished with the wiki for tonight, OK?20:36
qwrightNick and/or I can put the link in20:36
pinnerzeth: no, not yet20:36
pinnerNext Item: Talks20:36
zethfair enough20:36
pinnerThe submissions system is running and I think we have about three talks20:37
ThomasWaldmann(btw, the wordpress blog could use zine now :)20:37
pinnereven though two of them are from fuzzyman ;-)20:37
fuzzymanha20:38
fuzzymanone is a tutorial20:38
fuzzymanI've been poking a few people20:38
fuzzymanobviously none of them have actually done anything yet20:38
pinnerThomasWaldmann: translation please, I know nothing about wordpress20:38
fuzzymanTartley said he would submit his soon20:38
fuzzymanZine is a wonderful new Python blog20:38
Jonathan_Hartleyfuzzyman: thx, you're awesome. :-)20:39
fuzzymanYou can read about Zine here20:39
fuzzymanhttp://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/weblog/arch_d7_2009_01_03.shtml#e104620:39
fuzzyman:-)20:39
zethIf we are plugging Python blog software: https://launchpad.net/soturi20:40
fuzzymanit really is very nice and we could import old entries - but I suspect it isn't a high priority to switch20:40
pinnerThomasWaldmann: so you're suggesting we change to xine, keeping it all Python? I'm all for that if it's at least as good20:40
zethMy blog software could import the old entries also, however I think we are probably good to carry on as we are20:41
ThomasWaldmannpinner: i never used it. it is quite new, but the biggest bugs are out I guess.20:41
xorAxAxpinner: some moin author, person with pydotorg access and some ideas about their code ... and the last time i looked into the code, it required a lot of code modifications in the main parts20:41
fuzzymanif Zeth is maintaing the site infrastructure he probably gets to choose20:41
ThomasWaldmannwould leave a better impression of the python web stuff when the blog is not in php. :)20:41
zethwell obviously I could set up my blog in about 10 secs, but the blogger writers have to have a say20:41
zethsince they are writing the blog entries20:41
pinnerwill someone take ownership of the blog? zeth? thomas?20:42
fuzzymanzeth: can you import all the old entries and retain their URLs?20:42
zethI can if you want20:42
zethyeah sure20:42
xorAxAxpinner: i.e. the pydotorg theme is not really modular20:42
* ThomasWaldmann has no clue about blogs :)20:42
fuzzymancool20:42
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zethit is just light layer on django20:42
xorAxAxbut i have to go now :)20:42
zethI can do anything you want20:42
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zeth(in the context of blogs)20:42
qwrightzeth: well done ... zine seems to be a good thing20:42
pinnerxorAxAx: OK, thanks for your input.20:42
qwrightmoreati: Hi Alex20:42
pinnerHello Alex! Just in time for the stuff you're supposed to do ;-)20:43
moreatievening all20:43
zethSo is the plan that I am setting up a new Python based blog and importing the old entries?20:43
Jonathan_Hartleyis zine a lot of work to import posts? sounds a little make-work unless the existing blog has functional shortcomings. PHP is implementation detail, surely?20:43
pinnermoreati: you may wish you hadn't come...20:43
pinnerzeth: yes20:43
ThomasWaldmannzeth: zine is also wsgi stuff, so it can run under mod_wsgi also20:44
zethIf I am setting it up then I will use Soturi, my own blog software, since that will integrate with what we already have.20:44
pinnerzeth: thanks for volunteering ;-)20:44
ThomasWaldmanni guess everything is better (code) than wp ;)20:44
qwrightwe should be using zine because it's written in python20:44
zethPeople can use the same account they use for talk approvals for the blog20:45
zethqwright: soturi is python also20:45
pinnerjonathan_hartley: we're Python people, so we should be show-casing Python where possible and practical20:45
Jonathan_Hartleyum? we don't drive cars based on whether they run python in the electronics. is a questiojn of where you draw the line. Still, I'm not the one making the change... :-)20:45
pinnerOK, let's wrap up Talks, from which we've digressed!20:45
pinnerTalks - we all need to recruit speakers, let's review what we have at the next meeting, OK?20:46
fuzzymanos there anything specific needing doing for recruitment - or just publicity in general?20:47
pinnerWe've already covered Keynotes earlier20:47
pinnerfuzzyman: you mean recruiting speakers? I think we all need to contact our own acquaintances personally apart from the general publicity20:48
fuzzymanok20:48
pinnerNext Item: Sprints20:48
zethOn the topic of talks submissions, can anyone who does not currently have an admin login, and who wants one, email me or message me on IRC. Cheers.20:48
pinnerI don't think we have much progress here20:49
pinnerjacob22: Samuele said there'd be a PyPy sprint, is that confirmed?20:49
pinnerI will ask Jacob Kaplan-Moss if he's up for a Django sprint.20:50
pinnerI think we just need to make sure that every one knows that we have sprint space available, if required20:51
fuzzymanhas anyone here been involved in organising EuroPython sprints before?20:51
jacob22pinner: Not yet, but we can assume there will be one. I think the whole gang of pypyers will be coming.20:51
pinnerjacob22: great news! How many days would they want to sprint for? We need to arrange rooms.20:52
pinnerfuzzyman: jacob22 has, many times.20:52
fuzzymancool20:52
Jonathan_Hartleyzeth, are you the olo gy at gee mail?20:53
fuzzymanhe can help check we don't miss anything we should be doing :-)20:53
zethIt would be very good if we could nail down a couple of sprints before booking opens, then people book accomodatin correctly.20:53
zethJonathan_Hartley: Yarb.20:53
pinnerOK, so sprints are happening, albeit slowly.20:53
fuzzymanand if we include accomodation in the booking system, include the sprint dates on the booking form20:54
zethyep20:54
ThomasWaldmann(just a short note about the hotel room tariff stuff: if someone makes a deal with the conf hotel for the participants, make sure you get some 'best price guarantee'. in vilnius they had some 'cheap early bird rate' for participants and later it got even cheaper - that's a bit annoying if you have already booked.)20:54
zethhaving some sprints already will make people more confident in booking20:54
jacob22pinner: At least 3 days, maybe 5, but not more than that.20:54
pinnerfuzzyman: good idea20:54
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* ThomasWaldmann has to leave now. brb in 15mins.20:55
zethThomasWaldmann: We don't have any special rates I think.20:55
pinnerThomasWaldman: noted. Thanks for coming20:55
zethCheap hotels don't do such deals, very expensive hotels are still somewhat expensive after a deal.20:55
fuzzymanI have to go in 5 I'm afraid20:55
pinnerHello Harald! We'll be finishing soon ;-)20:55
pinnerNext Item is Publicity20:56
pinnerI think it's happening reasonable OK, but we need more on python.org20:56
ghumOh, sorry :(20:56
ghumhello 2 all of you, anyway :)20:57
fuzzymanpinner: more on python.org?20:57
zethPython.org went up today I think20:58
pinnerfuzzyman: unless it's changed very recently the whole pycon bit is really out-of-date20:58
zethtoday20:58
zethit changed today20:58
zethhttp://python.org/20:58
fuzzymanJohn - do you mean on the wiki somewhere?20:59
pinnerzeth: it' still wrong, maybe we should rewrite it20:59
fuzzymanThis page still points to the .org domain20:59
fuzzymanhttp://www.python.org/community/workshops/20:59
pinnerfuzzyman: sorry, I mean pycon.org20:59
fuzzymanpycon.org20:59
fuzzymanoops20:59
qwrightI noticed someone has made a posting on python-nl. Are there any other Eu country-specific lists where postings should/could be made?21:00
fuzzymanI meant that for the browser21:00
pinneryes, they should be asked to point to europython.eu21:00
pinnerqwright: every country with a python list21:00
pinnerbut that is up to individuals21:01
qwrightAfpy also21:01
fuzzymanpycon.org looks ok21:01
fuzzymanit is just a list of links and links to the right domain21:01
pinnerfuzzyman: OK, I misread a bit, sorry.21:02
zeth[[[Correction from earlier: "18:44 < fuzzyman> zeth: can you import all the old entries and retain their URLs?" Yes to first half - importing old entries, possibly no to second - retain URLs. It is currently hosted using a wordpress domain. I do not know what the redirection possibilities are.]]]21:02
fuzzymanzeth: ah - didn't appreciate that. In which case maybe just a new entry pointing people to the new location21:03
fuzzymannot sure it is even worth importing the old entries if they will still stay up21:03
zethYeah, I explore it, there might be a feature in wordpress21:03
fuzzymanI thought putting the new one up meant taking the old one down21:03
zethI think I have seen some kind of redirect before21:04
fuzzymanI have to go now I'm afraid21:04
pinnerSo let's move on from Publicity, difficult to go further because our publicity man is not here: maybe he is a new dad21:04
zethon wordpress blogs on wordpress.com21:04
zethhave a good night fuzzyman21:04
* pinner gestures goodnight to fuzzyman21:04
qwrightbye Michael!!21:04
pinnerNext Item: Sponsorship21:05
zethNot sure if he has a baby or not in his house, he didn't use easy_install did he?21:05
pinnerAny progress here?21:05
jacob22I'm afraid I haven't done anything over the holidays.21:05
qwrightLimited progress on brochure - hope to get something out this week21:05
pinnerzeth: is that why you haven't reproduced yet, wrong distutils?21:06
qwrightCould do with some new photos of Brum if the sun shines21:06
zethpinner well if I get my house sorted with zc.buildout, we see then ;)21:06
qwrightJohn has suggested Gail and Ted Leung have some images21:07
zethThere are probably some freely licenced photos on flickr of birmingham also21:07
pinnerzeth: make is the best tool by far21:07
zethlol21:07
jacob22qwright: One thing we should put explicitly in the conditions is that we do not accept payment by cheque. They are a huge bother to cash in Swedish banks.21:07
zethautomake?21:07
pinnerzeth: no, as in make love21:07
zethmake: *** No rule to make target `love'. Stop.21:08
zeth;)21:08
zethshe is obviously in out, or in a different directory ;)21:08
qwrightjacob22: point taken - we are thinking of having a UK bank account?21:08
pinnerjacob22: I made a proposal to run this in sterling to avoid all the bank charges, we have a suitable account and balance up afterwards with the Swedish account, so we only gte charged once21:08
zethdid we ever accepted cheques in the UK before?21:09
jacob22qwright: I will also put together a list of everyone I contacted last year and send to you.21:09
pinnerzeth: yes, but most pay by transfer21:09
zethyeah currency charge euro > Crown > pound21:09
jacob22pinner: That is great. Saves a roundtrip on the money.21:09
zethoh year I remember the cheques now21:09
qwrightjacob22: that would be great - thanks!! e21:09
pinnerOK, if q and jacob22 and martin finish the brochure by the next meeting we'll be ready to issue it.21:10
qwrightI'd hope to get a draft to jacob and martin by the weekend21:11
jacob22Another thing to note is that we should have attractive offers for the small companies. I made a fair bit of negotiation outside of what the brochure offered last year.21:11
pinnermeantime we can make contacts. I'll try Alison Cutler at Google, unless jacob22 has a better contact.21:11
pinnerAlso, I'll contact Sun21:12
qwrightjacob22: I think that's a good idea ..21:12
jacob22pinner: I'll look up the names of our contacts at Sun and Goggle.21:13
pinnerRight. We have some AOB. Specifically there have been enquiries about Accommodation21:13
pinnermoreati: how is the accommodation updating going?21:13
moreatiI've not done anything since the last technical meeting21:14
qwrightWe had talked about a deal with someone other than the etap?21:14
pinnerqwright: yes, I'd like to try the Premier Inn and the Travelodge for the cheaper option. See if we can do a deal.21:15
pinnermoreati: are you up for a visit to hotels?21:15
moreatiI'm working in the city centre now, so yes.21:15
zethIn PyConUK, we tried to have shepherds helping people get from the hotel to the venue on the first day. Should we do that for Europython?21:15
pinnermoreati: Oh good!21:16
pinnerzeth: plenty of time for that, we need the hotels first!21:16
qwrightmoreati: Excellent - looks like a few lunch-time strolls out!21:16
zethare those other hotels on broad street?21:17
pinnerso moreati and maybe q and I will talk about this outside the meeting: we need a decision soon though21:17
moreatipinner: ok21:17
pinnerzeth: Travelodge on Broad Street, Premier Inn Wharf Street down from the Hyatt21:17
qwrightAny other AOB?21:17
ThomasWaldmannbtw, it would be great if there would be always enough water around (drinkable one I mean :), that was a bit a problem in vilnius21:17
zethBirmingham water comes down an aquaduct from welsh valleys21:18
zethit is very drinkable21:18
qwrightI thought it came out of the sky21:18
pinnerThomasWaldman: OK, noted. We have water in Birmingham.21:18
moreatiThomasWaldmann: our water is very clean, it's been through plenty of kidneys21:19
ThomasWaldmannhehe21:19
qwrightseveral times21:19
moreatiWas Holiday Inn on Smallbrook Queensway abandoned as the conference hotel?21:19
pinnerwe will filter it from the canals if need be, otherwise it will have to be Wales.21:20
Jonathan_HartleyI wondered about the blog21:20
zethThe Broad Street one would be good as it is short and pretty walk to the venue21:20
Jonathan_Hartleywhether it should have a contact link for 3rd parties submitting or proposing21:20
Jonathan_Hartley  news items to post21:20
pinnermoreati: probably, too expensive in the week, but we will check21:20
zethJonathan_Hartley: good idea21:20
pinnerJonathan_Hartley: speak to the 'volunteer', ie zeth!21:21
pinnerOK, is there anything else?21:21
qwrightzeth: well volunteered21:21
pinnerIf not, let's close the meeting21:21
zethYeah no problem. Online forms are one of my favourite pasttimes.21:21
qwrightNext Meeting 1800 GMT Tuesday 27th Jan21:22
pinner+121:22
Jonathan_Hartleycool. have a good night, everyonw21:22
Jonathan_Hartleye21:22
zethcool, I will be in Germany but should probably be able to make it if the hotel's wireless is not screwed.21:22
qwrightGoodnight Jonathan21:23
* ThomasWaldmann will also be in germany :P21:23
zethThomasWaldmann: whereabouts?21:23
qwrightMaybe you should meet up21:23
zethyeah, I am sooo bored there21:23
ThomasWaldmannstuttgart area :)21:23
pinnerzeth: bored, with all that good beer and sausages?21:24
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zethThomasWaldmann: maybe that is a bit far this time21:25
* pinner says Good Night, everyone, see you in two weeks21:25
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zethI am lent to uni in Münster21:25
qwrightOK 'Night Thomas, zeth, alex, jacob et al...21:26
zethnight all21:26
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ThomasWaldmannzeth: I am sure they have a LUG, maybe a PUG also. :)21:26
ThomasWaldmanngn *21:26
zethgood idea, I look into what is around21:26
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ThomasWaldmannzeth: http://www.mueslihq.de/ (in german)21:34
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