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| pboddie | MrMeanie: How's the ambitious project coming along? | 01:13 |
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| MrTopf | pboddie: not sure if you mean me ;-) | 01:32 |
| MrMeanie | pboddie: Hi | 01:33 |
| MrMeanie | pboddie: Its going okay | 01:33 |
| MrMeanie | Sort of | 01:33 |
| Tv | MrTabTab | 01:33 |
| Tv | (think Shaggy) | 01:33 |
| MrMeanie | pboddie: I was just reading a website on doing mathematical expressions in HTML. | 01:33 |
| MrMeanie | Not pretty or easy. | 01:33 |
| MrTopf | Hey MrMeanie :) | 01:34 |
| MrMeanie | There was a guy at EP, Henrik, who said that it would be possible to do divide expressions using relative/absolute position using CSS. :-) | 01:34 |
| MrMeanie | But it does not seem very easy | 01:34 |
| MrMeanie | Does not seem to practical | 01:34 |
| MrTopf | Hey Tv | 01:34 |
| MrMeanie | So after working for a while to convert my app from using my own DOM/typesetting system to outputting HTML, I am thinking of going back again. | 01:35 |
| MrMeanie | MrTopf: Ho :-) | 01:35 |
| MrMeanie | Hi (sorry) | 01:35 |
| * MrTopf now has the joy to read C# code... | 01:35 | |
| MrMeanie | MrTopf: Who are you btw? Were you at EP in Vilnius? | 01:36 |
| MrMeanie | (wondering if I met you) | 01:36 |
| MrTopf | yes, I was | 01:36 |
| MrTopf | I was on the stage asking people for barcamp sessions | 01:36 |
| MrMeanie | Ahhhhh | 01:36 |
| MrTopf | and filming here and there | 01:36 |
| MrMeanie | Cool :-) | 01:36 |
| MrMeanie | I only did a lightning talk | 01:36 |
| MrTopf | and now I have that funky job of converting all those videos ;-) | 01:36 |
| pboddie | MrTopf == Christian | 01:37 |
| pboddie | MrMeanie == Geoffrey | 01:37 |
| MrMeanie | the one on the code editor that did the mathematical expressions in python code | 01:37 |
| MrTopf | I wanted to give one and had slides prepared but then time was out | 01:37 |
| MrMeanie | MrTopf: Ahhhh | 01:37 |
| MrTopf | ah :) | 01:37 |
| MrTopf | :) | 01:37 |
| MrMeanie | Hey Paul | 01:37 |
| MrTopf | I even wrote some python package to make that video stuff easier | 01:37 |
| pboddie | It's tricky doing HTML+CSS unless you're pretty structured with the elements you're using. There's always a huge temptation to use tables because the CSS is such a pain sometimes. | 01:38 |
| MrTopf | see http://mrtopf.de/blog/plone/planetplone/announcement-bliptvreader-for-easy-access-to-bliptv-hosted-videos-from-python/ | 01:38 |
| MrTopf | indeed | 01:38 |
| MrMeanie | pboddie: Thats the problem. Tables would work. I have no problem with generating whatever it takes | 01:38 |
| MrTopf | I am glad I have some employee who is better at that than me :) | 01:38 |
| MrMeanie | But HTML is tricky in the way it lays things out | 01:38 |
| MrMeanie | It tends to place a table on a new line | 01:38 |
| MrMeanie | rather than putting it inside the paragraph | 01:38 |
| MrTopf | it tends to do all sorts of funky stuff depending on the browser | 01:39 |
| MrMeanie | I don't know how to override this behaviour. | 01:39 |
| MrMeanie | Great. | 01:39 |
| MrMeanie | Just what I don't need. | 01:39 |
| MrMeanie | I guess I could make my app specific to one browser.... | 01:39 |
| pboddie | The relative/absolute stuff is something I put in those examples I told you about, although I also use pop-up elements which is a bit confusing when added to the mix. | 01:39 |
| MrMeanie | I wouldn't mind that at all | 01:39 |
| pboddie | I usually forget what the rules are and have to try it out all over again, unless I can dig up an example that works. | 01:40 |
| MrMeanie | pboddie: I have managed to get a table displayed on a line, to the right of some text. | 01:40 |
| MrMeanie | By putting it in a 'position:absolute' span | 01:40 |
| MrMeanie | that is inside a 'position:relative' span | 01:41 |
| MrMeanie | but | 01:41 |
| MrMeanie | problems occur when you have text that is supposed to come *after* the table | 01:41 |
| MrMeanie | it just overwrites it | 01:41 |
| MrMeanie | rather than follows it. | 01:41 |
| MrMeanie | I was using the table to display a divide expression ( a + b**c ) / d | 01:41 |
| MrMeanie | that kind of thing | 01:41 |
| pboddie | Right, because the absolute stuff probably takes it out of the flow - great for pop-ups, not great for everything else. | 01:41 |
| MrMeanie | Yeah | 01:42 |
| pboddie | The CSS specifications are baroque about all this. I don't understand how people put up with it all. ;-) | 01:42 |
| MrMeanie | They have to, they don't have much choice. | 01:42 |
| MrMeanie | I optimised my system a bit. | 01:42 |
| MrMeanie | Importing that large (?) example file takes 22 seconds instead of 45, and uses 250mb of ram instead of 400 | 01:43 |
| MrMeanie | but still completely unacceptable. | 01:43 |
| MrMeanie | Profiling seems to lay the blame for the performance at the door of my typesetting system | 01:43 |
| MrMeanie | So I am thinking if rewriting that bit in Java | 01:44 |
| MrMeanie | Switch to Jython | 01:44 |
| pboddie | Need to look at the CSS specs... | 01:45 |
| MrMeanie | Admittedly I have mainly been using htmldog.com as a reference | 01:47 |
| MrMeanie | rather than the acutal speds. | 01:47 |
| MrMeanie | *specs | 01:47 |
| pboddie | http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visuren.html#comparison | 01:50 |
| pboddie | ...is quite helpful. | 01:51 |
| MrMeanie | pboddie: Thanks..... | 01:56 |
| MrMeanie | its interesting | 01:56 |
| pboddie | Well, if you have a table in a line of text, is it not enough to write a rule which changes display to inline. For example: | 01:56 |
| pboddie | table.division { display: inline; } | 01:56 |
| pboddie | ...? | 01:56 |
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| MrMeanie | pboddie: thanks, I will try it | 02:01 |
| pboddie | It's tricky to get the vertical positioning right, and it's not up to TeX standards, but here's a snippet: | 02:02 |
| MrMeanie | pboddie: That seems to have done the trick :-) | 02:03 |
| pboddie | <html> | 02:04 |
| pboddie | <head> | 02:04 |
| pboddie | <title>Division</title> | 02:04 |
| pboddie | <style type="text/css"> | 02:04 |
| pboddie | .division { | 02:04 |
| pboddie | display: inline; | 02:04 |
| pboddie | vertical-align: -100%; | 02:04 |
| pboddie | } | 02:04 |
| pboddie | .division td { | 02:04 |
| pboddie | text-align: center; | 02:04 |
| pboddie | } | 02:04 |
| pboddie | .division td.num { | 02:04 |
| pboddie | border-bottom: 1px solid black; | 02:04 |
| pboddie | } | 02:04 |
| pboddie | </style> | 02:04 |
| pboddie | </head> | 02:04 |
| pboddie | <body> | 02:04 |
| pboddie | <p>Test of <table class="division"><tr><td class="num">top</td></tr><tr><td>bottom</td></tr></table> = division.</p> | 02:04 |
| pboddie | </body> | 02:04 |
| pboddie | </html> | 02:05 |
| Tv | MrTopf: extra round of thank yous for the ep talk videos | 02:05 |
| MrTopf | Tv: yw :) I just need to post them now in the proper places | 02:05 |
| MrTopf | and I guess I have 35 talks to go or so.. | 02:05 |
| MrTopf | esp. the keynote and all the lightning talks | 02:06 |
| MrTopf | is Guido's keynote actually online by now? | 02:06 |
| pboddie | MrTopf: Thanks for all the hard work! | 02:06 |
| MrTopf | pboddie: not finished yet ;-) | 02:06 |
| pboddie | Even the first cut of the cocos2d video was well worth watching. | 02:07 |
| MrTopf | there are actually more by now on the blip.tv page | 02:08 |
| pboddie | Anyway, must be off! Good luck with the CSS, Geoff! | 02:08 |
| MrTopf | and I wrote this bliptv.reader just for making it easy to automatically post this to our blog and to the EP blog | 02:08 |
| MrTopf | pboddie: good night! | 02:08 |
| pboddie | And I'll try and take a look at the blip.tv goings on. | 02:08 |
| pboddie | Goodnight all! :-) | 02:08 |
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