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| pboddie | zeth: If you're reading, can you put in a redirect for /community and restore the /euro and /wiki aliases? | 11:52 |
|---|---|---|
| zeth | hi pboddie | 11:52 |
| zeth | well | 11:52 |
| zeth | can you check it now | 11:52 |
| zeth | and see how it is | 11:52 |
| zeth | /community/FrontPage should be interally rewritten to FrontPage | 11:53 |
| zeth | what where the /euro and /wiki aliases? | 11:53 |
| zeth | where they to do with images? | 11:53 |
| pboddie | Maybe it's my browser. Hold on! | 11:54 |
| pboddie | Ah, it thinks /euro is part of the Wiki. | 11:56 |
| pboddie | I guess it doesn't like /wiki for the same reason. | 11:56 |
| zeth | right | 11:56 |
| zeth | so I need to do something to make /euro go to the images/css ? | 11:56 |
| pboddie | I think we need to override /euro, /wiki and /community so that they do stuff before MoinMoin gets hold of it. | 11:56 |
| pboddie | I think MoinMoin thinks /community is a page, too. | 11:56 |
| zeth | community works for me, you might have to empty your browser cache | 11:57 |
| zeth | so I think | 11:57 |
| zeth | http://www.europython.org/moin_static163/ep2008/img/europython.png | 11:57 |
| zeth | So this link http://www.europython.org/euro/img/europython.png | 11:57 |
| zeth | needs to end up at | 11:57 |
| zeth | http://www.europython.org/moin_static163/ep2008/img/europython.png | 11:57 |
| zeth | is that correct? | 11:58 |
| zeth | shall I just add an apache redirect or shall I change the wiki configs | 11:58 |
| pboddie | I don't know what Thomas did to make it work last night, but you could probably add some alias before the dynamic stuff in the Apache config. | 12:01 |
| pboddie | Yes, clearing my cache helped with the /community. | 12:02 |
| zeth | Okay | 12:06 |
| zeth | I have added an extra rule | 12:06 |
| zeth | Alias /euro/ /home/ep3000/htdocs/ep2008/ | 12:06 |
| zeth | okay? | 12:06 |
| pboddie | One for /wiki, too? | 12:07 |
| zeth | okay can do, where should it go? | 12:07 |
| zeth | (old site at the other secret url btw) | 12:08 |
| pboddie | The same place, I think. | 12:08 |
| pboddie | I think we've also picked up the old logo again, somehow. | 12:08 |
| zeth | yeah I just spotted that | 12:09 |
| zeth | refresh again please | 12:09 |
| pboddie | Looks good. The /wiki stuff doesn't seem right, though: http://www.europython.org/Planning/ProposedLogo/Jonkman | 12:10 |
| pboddie | I guess /wiki -> /home/ep3000/htdocs, perhaps. | 12:11 |
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| zeth | pboddie: okay | 12:21 |
| zeth | how about now | 12:21 |
| zeth | pboddie: seems to be fixed? | 12:23 |
| pboddie | zeth: Yes, looks good! | 12:23 |
| zeth | I think we are getting there | 12:23 |
| zeth | it was a lot of work but for me it was worth it as 1. The site does not break, 2. One less wiki is using the old broken debian package that I want to remove | 12:24 |
| zeth | Well I hope 1. at least | 12:24 |
| pboddie | Thanks for working through it, though! | 12:24 |
| zeth | as we are no longer using mod_python | 12:24 |
| pboddie | The theme didn't really break at all - I'm surprised about that. At most, I had to fix some links which weren't converted automatically. | 12:25 |
| zeth | so at least we should not have that one issue of fightning between mod python and moin | 12:25 |
| pboddie | And there will hopefully be much less spam. | 12:25 |
| zeth | ah yes | 12:26 |
| zeth | so what do we do about extensions? | 12:26 |
| pboddie | Which extensions? | 12:26 |
| pboddie | The macros related to the blog seem to work still. | 12:27 |
| zeth | I don't know anything about what extensions we had | 12:27 |
| zeth | only you knew that I think | 12:28 |
| zeth | I didn't even know moinmoin had extensions ;) | 12:28 |
| zeth | http://www.europython.org/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png | 12:28 |
| zeth | ignore that link | 12:28 |
| zeth | (accidentally put porrige bowel on mouse buttons) | 12:29 |
| zeth | (accidentally put porridge bowl on mouse buttons) - can't spell either yet | 12:29 |
| zeth | too early for me! | 12:29 |
| pboddie | The SystemInfo doesn't seem different, at least for local extensions. | 12:29 |
| pboddie | Too early for me, too! | 12:29 |
| zeth | we only migrated the correct 39 users | 12:30 |
| zeth | which is good | 12:30 |
| zeth | not the hundreds of spammers | 12:30 |
| pboddie | I think the move will be worth it in the end. | 12:30 |
| zeth | so do we still need to add anything else for the spam protection | 12:31 |
| pboddie | The various other Wikis should do it as well. | 12:31 |
| zeth | I think the move is certainly worth it | 12:31 |
| zeth | as we will want to keep up with the trunk | 12:31 |
| zeth | yeah, the PyconUk wiki is next | 12:31 |
| zeth | then I can delete the 1.5 debian-installed moin package | 12:32 |
| zeth | then it has unpolluted namespace | 12:32 |
| zeth | then I am happy ;) | 12:32 |
| pboddie | Perhaps other projects might want to migrate - now that's an interesting sprint suggestion! | 12:33 |
| zeth | pboddie: how are we on spam protection? | 12:33 |
| zeth | so we have everything we need? | 12:33 |
| pboddie | Right, there's a textcha configuration in the main config. | 12:33 |
| pboddie | We should really add/change questions so that the spammers can't answer them correctly and post their stuff. | 12:34 |
| pboddie | I couldn't change it last night, but there's a TrustedEditorGroup who are exempt. | 12:34 |
| pboddie | Exempt from being asked questions, that is. | 12:35 |
| ThomasWaldmann | moin | 12:36 |
| ThomasWaldmann | i copied the 2 edits from reimar bauer to the new site | 12:37 |
| zeth | ThomasWaldmann: good moining | 12:37 |
| pboddie | Moin 1.6! | 12:37 |
| ThomasWaldmann | yeah :) | 12:37 |
| pboddie | ThomasWaldmann: Thanks! | 12:37 |
| zeth | my wife is Finnish, and the greeting in Finnish is actually Moi | 12:38 |
| ThomasWaldmann | that's all that happened after the conversion, apart from a localbadcontent edit we maybe dont need any more anyway | 12:38 |
| pboddie | ThomasWaldmann: The edit was made on both sites. It included a pretty bad mistake which prevented some edits. | 12:38 |
| ThomasWaldmann | oh, ok | 12:39 |
| pboddie | zeth: You're another person I know with a Finnish connection, then. | 12:39 |
| pboddie | ThomasWaldmann: As I said to Zeth, perhaps there's some interest in migration sprints for other Wikis at EuroPython. | 12:39 |
| ThomasWaldmann | btw, there are some plugins in data/plugin that should be reviewed | 12:40 |
| ThomasWaldmann | and tested | 12:40 |
| pboddie | These are the macros, are they not? | 12:40 |
| pboddie | I think the FeedReader seems to work. VoteRecorder isn't needed any more, although I could test it. SiteUpdates isn't used. LoginHint was something you wrote, I think. ;-) | 12:41 |
| ThomasWaldmann | yes, the macros | 12:42 |
| ThomasWaldmann | the question is what is in use | 12:42 |
| ThomasWaldmann | everything not used should be better kept elsewhere | 12:43 |
| pboddie | FeedReader (on FrontPage and Blog) and LoginHint (on Planning/ProposedLogo). | 12:43 |
| pboddie | The others could be moved out of the site, I think. | 12:43 |
| ThomasWaldmann | zeth: in some weeks/months, don't forget to delete the "oldcrap" directory :) | 12:44 |
| * ThomasWaldmann wrote a small ep3000/README | 12:49 | |
| zeth | ThomasWaldmann: very nice readme | 12:54 |
| zeth | I am a big fan of web-apps where you can go hg pull or svn up or whatever | 12:55 |
| zeth | that is a handy way of keeping things secure | 12:55 |
| ThomasWaldmann | 2008-05-16 10:33:12,479 INFO TextCha: failure (u='91.21.170.60', a='', | 12:55 |
| ThomasWaldmann | gotcha! :P | 12:56 |
| pboddie | A German IP, too! | 12:56 |
| ThomasWaldmann | oops, no. that was me :D | 12:57 |
| pboddie | Hold off on the DDOS attack! ;-) | 12:57 |
| zeth | does the question even have to be that hard? | 12:57 |
| zeth | What about are you a human? | 12:57 |
| pboddie | It needs to be in the context of the site. | 12:57 |
| zeth | Answer: Yes | 12:57 |
| ThomasWaldmann | any question a spammer can't answer ad hoc is ok i think | 12:58 |
| zeth | well most spam bots seem to answer all questions with their junk | 12:58 |
| ThomasWaldmann | it also should not be computable with eval(question) :) | 12:58 |
| pboddie | As I noted to Thomas, who knows this already, the brilliant idea with textchas is that they prevent someone removing the challenge from the original site and presenting it to someone out of context on, say, a porn site. | 12:58 |
| zeth | indeed | 12:59 |
| ThomasWaldmann | they prevent that? | 12:59 |
| pboddie | All the debate about making images with swirly letters and talk about machine vision and stuff like that just goes out of the window. | 12:59 |
| zeth | well they could ask on a porn site "name a popular free software licence" | 13:00 |
| ThomasWaldmann | well, yes, by asking site specific questions | 13:00 |
| pboddie | Well, from what I've read, a lot of captchas are solved by humans who are fed them on other sites. | 13:00 |
| ThomasWaldmann | zeth: there is the WTFPL :)) | 13:00 |
| zeth | On my blog, I had the question "Who is the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom? Bean, Brown, or Stalin?" | 13:01 |
| zeth | I got complaints from Americans who said the question was impossibly hard | 13:01 |
| pboddie | I think the licence question isn't that great since someone might mention the Apache licence or the Artistic licence. | 13:01 |
| zeth | or the python licence | 13:01 |
| zeth | well, I think maybe it is okay | 13:01 |
| ThomasWaldmann | yes, questions and answers need more work :) | 13:02 |
| zeth | people can make a log in, or learn that the answer is the gpl | 13:02 |
| pboddie | I guess you can stop the rednecks from commenting by asking questions requiring a minimum level of political knowledge. | 13:02 |
| zeth | yeah, I moved my blog from pyblosxom to django and have not introduced a quiz question yet | 13:03 |
| zeth | but I will do probably | 13:03 |
| pboddie | On the EP questions, perhaps something like "which date (number) is the first day of the conference?" | 13:03 |
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| ThomasWaldmann | maybe rather ask for the day's number only | 13:04 |
| ThomasWaldmann | or you will have to consider all ways of how to enter a date :) | 13:04 |
| zeth | who started Python? gandhi, guido or garibaldi? | 13:05 |
| zeth | if they have to google the answer then the learn something anyway | 13:05 |
| ThomasWaldmann | i don't know how many python newbies we have, so that might be hard also | 13:05 |
| zeth | well hopefully the other options should be obviously wrong | 13:06 |
| ThomasWaldmann | asking stuff that is visible on the front page is maybe not too hard | 13:06 |
| zeth | well, it does not need to be hard | 13:06 |
| zeth | it just needs to seperate a human from a script | 13:06 |
| ThomasWaldmann | better separate humans and script from humans with interest in python | 13:07 |
| zeth | who started Python? MickeyMouse, guido or Madonna? | 13:07 |
| zeth | the gpl question is a problem because there is not one unambigious answer | 13:08 |
| ThomasWaldmann | you can just add some other famous ones to the answer regex | 13:09 |
| ThomasWaldmann | and it doesnt need to be a complete list, as most licenses aren't popular | 13:10 |
| zeth | which is only a good thing | 13:12 |
| ThomasWaldmann | we could ask for the software running the site :P | 13:12 |
| zeth | over time open souce licence incompatibility is going to be a bigger problem than proprietary software | 13:13 |
| zeth | we have probably already reached that point in the Python world | 13:13 |
| ThomasWaldmann | The opening date of registration is yet to be set. (Calendar page) | 13:15 |
| ThomasWaldmann | zeth: pboddie: can you fix the trail display at the bottom in the ep2008 theme? | 13:17 |
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| paul_boddie | Sorry, network problems over here. | 13:19 |
| paul_boddie | The licence question isn't specifically a EuroPython one. | 13:19 |
| ThomasWaldmann | right, but unlikely to be answered by $FOLK | 13:22 |
| ThomasWaldmann | strange, noone mailed me yet about room sharing | 13:26 |
| zeth | room sharing? | 13:33 |
| zeth | that is not a bad idea | 13:34 |
| zeth | it depends whether I am travelling alone or not | 13:34 |
| zeth | and whether I go to the sprints or not | 13:34 |
| zeth | but if I am on my own, I would happily share a room | 13:35 |
| zeth | as rooms at these kinds of things are more places to throw your stuff | 13:35 |
| zeth | no one actually sleeps do they ;) | 13:35 |
| zeth | everyone just drinks and programs most of the night | 13:36 |
| * ThomasWaldmann creates a RoomSharing page | 13:37 | |
| ThomasWaldmann | deciding this now can save you quite some EURos | 13:37 |
| ThomasWaldmann | early bird rate at the hotel is only up to 45d before | 13:38 |
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| zeth | so I have not been before, is this the kind of conference that there is one main conference hotel where everyone sleeps | 13:39 |
| dboddie | The conference hotel is where many people are. | 13:39 |
| zeth | if so then one really needs to be in that particular hotel | 13:39 |
| zeth | so one can be involved in all the late night hacking etc | 13:40 |
| dboddie | Last year, it wasn't so much late night hacking as late night relaxing in the bar on the top floor of the hotel. | 13:42 |
| dboddie | For me, at least. | 13:42 |
| zeth | yeah | 13:42 |
| zeth | cool | 13:42 |
| zeth | that is fine too | 13:42 |
| zeth | guadec had a lot of hacking potential | 13:42 |
| zeth | PyConUK had a lot of drinking ;) | 13:43 |
| zeth | I suppose I should work out who is coming from Birmingham and we try to book flights together | 13:43 |
| zeth | save money in the ride from civilisation to the airport | 13:44 |
| dboddie | I thought you said people were coming from Birmingham. ;-) | 13:46 |
| zeth | lol ;) | 13:46 |
| zeth | indeed! | 13:46 |
| ThomasWaldmann | http://europython.org/RoomSharing take it while it's cheap :) | 13:52 |
| ThomasWaldmann | saves about EUR 250 :) | 13:53 |
| jezdez | btw, is there some kind of financial aid for students like there was at pycon this year? | 13:59 |
| zeth | ? | 14:08 |
| zeth | What did they do at pycon? | 14:08 |
| zeth | At PyConUk we just tried to make it really cheap for everyone. | 14:09 |
| zeth | (I am technically a student, though I work too) | 14:09 |
| jezdez | well, they had financial aid in different forms: | 14:10 |
| jezdez | the easiest was no to pay the fee | 14:10 |
| * ThomasWaldmann .oO(there could be a "no fee for helpers" rule :) | 14:11 | |
| jezdez | sorry, the easiest was not to pay the fee | 14:11 |
| jezdez | then they had some complimentary rooms from the hotel that were given to students | 14:12 |
| jezdez | or anybody who submitted an application for financial aid | 14:12 |
| jezdez | http://us.pycon.org/2008/registration/financial-aid/ | 14:13 |
| zeth | who paid for that? | 14:13 |
| jezdez | I think the psf | 14:13 |
| jezdez | but anyway, I'm sure they had a lot more sponsors :) | 14:14 |
| jezdez | I think 65Euro is pretty good for a conference and a student | 14:14 |
| zeth | well yeah, with PyConUK, the cost per delegate on food alone was 60 pounds, and the early bird price was 50 pounds | 14:15 |
| zeth | so we did not give anyone free entry | 14:15 |
| zeth | This is my first europython so I don't know what happens with food | 14:16 |
| jezdez | though I have to say finanical aid helps a lot of the students. I know this only works with enough funding | 14:18 |
| zeth | well year, europython is a different scale than a one country conference | 14:19 |
| dboddie | Lunches are free. Breakfast depends on where you stay. | 14:19 |
| jezdez | ah wow, cool. and the lunches will be at the hotel? | 14:19 |
| zeth | you can get from anywhere in Britain to Birmingham | 14:19 |
| zeth | by national express | 14:20 |
| zeth | so cost was limited with students with time | 14:20 |
| zeth | so cost was limited for students with time | 14:20 |
| jezdez | I see | 14:20 |
| zeth | to the national express maximum fair | 14:20 |
| jezdez | I'm concerned what will happen next year | 14:20 |
| zeth | jezdez: where do you live? | 14:20 |
| jezdez | germany | 14:21 |
| zeth | you can fly from Germany to England quite cheaply if you are efficient | 14:21 |
| zeth | the hotel we use is very cheap indeed | 14:21 |
| zeth | 35 pounds for a room, no matter how many people you put in | 14:22 |
| zeth | it has a double bed, a bunk bed and the sofa/floor | 14:22 |
| zeth | so students can all just be friendly | 14:23 |
| zeth | so if you put 5 students in a room, that is 7 per night | 14:23 |
| jezdez | yup, a flight to england is pretty inexpensive. are there any information about the origin of last year's europython attendees? | 14:23 |
| zeth | well, you might give a discount to the student on the flooe | 14:24 |
| zeth | floor | 14:24 |
| zeth | so you could have 3 students in beds at 10 each, and one on the floor at 5 pounds | 14:24 |
| zeth | ;) | 14:25 |
| zeth | I do not have the information as I am new here | 14:26 |
| zeth | but I am sure someone knows | 14:27 |
| jezdez | ok, I ask later again then | 14:27 |
| zeth | I imagine you will not be the only German | 14:28 |
| dboddie | jezdez: Lunches are where the conference is. At least, that's how it worked last year. | 14:32 |
| jezdez | dboddie: great | 14:33 |
| jezdez | zeth: well, I have no clue who is coming since it's my first europython, too :) | 14:33 |
| dboddie | jezdez: The hotel needed to be told to increase the number of sandwiches after the first day, but things seemed to go smoothly after that. | 14:33 |
| jezdez | hehe | 14:33 |
| dboddie | I was late for lunch, so had to go to the shopping centre near the hotel where I practiced the art of pointing at baked goods. :-) | 14:34 |
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| pboddie | Sorry, network issues occurred! | 14:34 |
| pboddie | jezdez: http://www.europython.org/Planning/Projections | 14:35 |
| pboddie | jezdez: Germany was #1! | 14:35 |
| jezdez | dboddie: hehe | 14:36 |
| jezdez | pboddie: oh, wow. I didn't expect that | 14:36 |
| pboddie | Much better shopping in Lithuania than in Norway, it seems. | 14:36 |
| zeth | not too many British | 14:38 |
| pboddie | On the subject of funding: http://www.europython.org/Attendee%20Sponsorship | 14:39 |
| zeth | interesting | 14:39 |
| zeth | I suppose Europe is a big place, and Eastern Europeans may well find it expensive | 14:40 |
| zeth | and everyone is different of course | 14:40 |
| pboddie | We had discussions about this at length last year, but in the end people noted that travel and accommodation are more expensive. | 14:40 |
| pboddie | Still, I'm not sure that this is so true if you're travelling from one of Lithuania's neighbours. | 14:41 |
| pboddie | As for accommodation, my inclination is for the conference hotel if only because I don't then have to think about getting there in the mornings. | 14:42 |
| pboddie | A Wallace-and-Gromit arrangement would be the ideal solution, but not many hotels have that, I guess. | 14:42 |
| zeth | Next year, if we have the 200+ Europython people and the 200+ PyConUk people, then we should probably offer sponsorship if say the lithuanians find it expensive to come to England | 14:42 |
| zeth | just a thought anyway | 14:43 |
| pboddie | Currently, the sponsorship is under Laura's command. | 14:44 |
| zeth | cool | 14:44 |
| pboddie | That kind of sponsorship, that is. | 14:44 |
| jezdez | I think it should be noted that not only poeple from eastern europe should be given the chance to be sponsored | 14:44 |
| zeth | sure of course | 14:44 |
| zeth | everyone is different | 14:44 |
| zeth | someone could be an eastern european gas billionare | 14:44 |
| jezdez | what do you mean with that? | 14:44 |
| zeth | that everyone's personal situation is different | 14:44 |
| zeth | so I am technically a student, but I don't ask for anything above that | 14:45 |
| pboddie | There is a documented difference in prices between the countries of Europe. I mentioned this at some point last year. | 14:45 |
| zeth | because I have made some money out of my python skills | 14:45 |
| jezdez | sure and this doesn't apply to other students | 14:45 |
| zeth | indeed | 14:46 |
| zeth | everyone is different | 14:46 |
| jezdez | ok :) | 14:46 |
| pboddie | I'd refer you both to the previous discussion, but I'm too lazy to dig it up. | 14:46 |
| jezdez | pboddie: that'd be a good thing to discuss this year at some point. | 14:47 |
| zeth | that's okay, I am not really personally ever going to be involved in such decisions | 14:47 |
| jezdez | pboddie: was the discussion at irc or mailing list? | 14:47 |
| zeth | so I leave that to Laura or whoever | 14:48 |
| zeth | I stick to running around swinging a clipboard around like a madman | 14:50 |
| zeth | (my role in PyConUK) | 14:50 |
| jezdez | heh | 14:52 |
| pboddie | jezdez: I think it may have been an IRC thing, since some searches on lists don't find the links I was going to post. | 14:55 |
| jezdez | ok | 14:55 |
| pboddie | http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2007-May/006347.html | 15:01 |
| zeth | fair point | 15:02 |
| pboddie | From last August: http://www.ssb.no/emner/08/02/pppvare/thumb-2007-07-17-01.png | 15:02 |
| pboddie | http://www.ssb.no/emner/08/02/pppvare/ | 15:02 |
| pboddie | http://www.ssb.no/emner/08/02/pppvare/fig-2007-07-17-01.gif | 15:03 |
| pboddie | Try this one now: http://www.ssb.no/emner/08/02/pppvare/arkiv/ | 15:05 |
| zeth | that is not in English so I don't know what it means | 15:05 |
| zeth | but this one is in English, http://www.ssb.no/ppp_en/fig-2007-12-19-02-en.gif does this one mean that the Norway people have to buy all the drinks ;) | 15:05 |
| pboddie | They decided to publish something else in place of the old stuff, not having heard of permalinks. | 15:05 |
| pboddie | Yes, there are buttons for English, and the original reports are in English. | 15:06 |
| zeth | yeah, I tried to find it but got lost in all the redirects | 15:06 |
| zeth | you would think they are running moinmoin ;) | 15:06 |
| pboddie | Ah, I see you went for the English topic and found this: http://www.ssb.no/ppp_en/ | 15:10 |
| pboddie | In which case, I'd prefer it if you used this graph: http://www.ssb.no/ppp_en/fig-2007-12-19-01-en.html | 15:10 |
| pboddie | Because there might be some Icelanders and Danes at the conference. ;-) | 15:11 |
| pboddie | "Alcoholic beverages are about 50 per cent cheaper on Svalbard than on the mainland." http://www.ssb.no/prsvalbard_en/ | 15:14 |
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| MrTopf | Hi, there wasn't a special rebate for the hotel I guess? | 18:51 |
| dboddie | Not that I know of. | 18:51 |
| pboddie | Apart from the special accommodation, there's also an online offer not related to the conference, apparently. | 18:52 |
| MrTopf | I see the super early bird for 90,- | 18:59 |
| MrTopf | the novotel where we stayed last year apparently got a lot more expensive | 18:59 |
| pboddie | It's the same as last year: the hotel loves us so much that we're not given a really special discount. | 18:59 |
| MrTopf | booking flight now.. 6-12 | 19:00 |
| MrTopf | hotel is booked | 19:15 |
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| MrTopf | and EP is booked, too. only issue was that I couldn't put several tickets into one cart | 20:06 |
| dboddie | I think this issue came up during testing. We'll see how it affects things during registration. | 20:21 |
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