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| lac | do we have an agenda set for this meeting? | 19:39 |
|---|---|---|
| lac | also, do you know how to change the title in a channel? Our next meeting is wrong, and for my irc client at any rate | 19:43 |
| lac | the title doesn't wrap to two lines but is cut off, so I never noticed until now. Is there a way to insert a newline? | 19:43 |
| pedronis | lac: /topic, no clue about newlines | 19:48 |
| lac | the freenode channel says 'not possible' | 19:49 |
| pedronis | then only operators can do that | 19:49 |
| pedronis | I don't know who registered this channel | 19:49 |
| pedronis | maybe mwh | 19:50 |
| pboddie | http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython/2008/IRCMeetings/IRCMeeting7 | 19:50 |
| pboddie | For newlines, Kopete lets me press Ctrl-Return for newlines. | 19:50 |
| pboddie | I'm sure Dave has changed the title before and he's probably not an operator. Maybe it's just a command. | 19:51 |
| lac | so you could make a title here that has a nl in it? | 19:51 |
| pboddie | Not sure. | 19:51 |
| *** pboddie changes topic to "EuroPython 2008 - import this | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/europython-irclog/ | mailing list at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/ | next meeting on Friday 20th March at 19:00 CET" | 19:51 | |
| pboddie | I've just changed the title. No newline, though. | 19:51 |
| pboddie | Suggestion for a different one? | 19:51 |
| pedronis | I don't know, I see all the contents wrapped properly in emacs | 19:52 |
| lac | aha, so its a problem with ksirc, and smarter irc clients do it better. | 19:52 |
| lac | I think that we might change the mailing list to europython-improve | 19:53 |
| pedronis | I'm not sure ERC is smarter, is just lives under different constraints than a typical UI app | 19:53 |
| pboddie | I don't really see the whole title in Kopete, actually. | 19:54 |
| lac | and sticking the agenda in the title strikes me as a good idea, if people can read it. I was hoping for newlines. | 19:54 |
| pedronis | lac: I'm sure newlines would help | 19:54 |
| lac | But I don't know how to make them. | 19:55 |
| pedronis | is just that people making GUI irc client | 19:55 |
| pedronis | assume topic are short and sweet | 19:55 |
| pedronis | and so a one line text field will do | 19:55 |
| lac | Maybe we need a wiki page 'important irc channel links' which has all the above, and reference that in the title? | 19:55 |
| lac | Maybe I am making unneeded work beause I get obsessed with getting what I want far beyond needing it? | 19:56 |
| pedronis | honestly I never seen this channel flooded | 19:56 |
| pedronis | with newbies | 19:56 |
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| david_boddie | Hello | 19:58 |
| lac | hi david. | 19:59 |
| lac | by my clock, the meeting should be on now. | 20:00 |
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| david_boddie | OK. | 20:01 |
| lac | Hi Lennart | 20:01 |
| regebro | Hi all! | 20:02 |
| david_boddie | Shall I take notes on the Wiki? http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython/2008/IRCMeetings/IRCMeeting7 | 20:02 |
| lac | I suspect, with easter and all, people have forgotten. So we should start. | 20:02 |
| pboddie | Yes please! | 20:02 |
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| lac | david -- yes please! | 20:02 |
| lac | hi John | 20:03 |
| pinner | 'Evening all! | 20:03 |
| pboddie | Hello John! I was about to ask if you were going to show up. | 20:03 |
| pinner | well, yes | 20:03 |
| lac | thank you. | 20:04 |
| lac | Ok, bang bang bang and let us start the meeting! | 20:04 |
| lac | talks/themes: | 20:04 |
| lac | the most interesting thing that has happened re that, from my point of view, is the remarkable success of Steve Holden's Teach me Twisted. | 20:05 |
| lac | I am wondering if we should do something similar, and if so, should we do it instead of or in addition to tutorials. | 20:05 |
| david_boddie | We could ask for a repeat performance. Steve expressed interest in coming to EuroPython last year. | 20:05 |
| pboddie | Was this where Steve plays the naive beginner getting the experts to explain themselves coherently? | 20:05 |
| lac | pboddie: yes and this means that a repeat performance is unlikely to work. | 20:06 |
| lac | naive users have a short shelf-life. :-) | 20:06 |
| lac | of course we could try to teach Steve something else. | 20:06 |
| pboddie | And it depends on which experts we have. | 20:06 |
| david_boddie | This sounds a bit like a panel activity. | 20:06 |
| david_boddie | But it's a good angle to follow. | 20:07 |
| lac | No, its not a panel, at least as I understood it, but one person hacking with a room full of people making comments. | 20:07 |
| david_boddie | I'll add something to the Talk Suggestions page: http://www.europython.org/community/Talk_Suggestions | 20:07 |
| pboddie | Like a reverse presentation? | 20:07 |
| lac | the most important job of the learner, it seems, is the ability to tell the experts to shut up when they are providing the wrong level of detail. | 20:07 |
| lac | But if we do this, then we need to make sure we have a cadre of experts to call upon. | 20:08 |
| lac | So this will impact the registration process, assuming we want to ask people what they want to learn and what they can teach as part of it. | 20:08 |
| lac | It might go well with the unconference idea, too. | 20:09 |
| lac | but I haven't been to one of those either, so, not in the best place to judge. | 20:09 |
| lac | and mrtopf isn't here today. | 20:09 |
| lac | anybody else done any more thinking about themes? | 20:09 |
| david_boddie | I think we have enough subjects to start with. | 20:10 |
| pinner | Mobile Python was suggested | 20:10 |
| david_boddie | pinner: See the page linked to above. | 20:10 |
| pboddie | I did some tidying up last time, but I think the themes we have are strong enough. Best not to overthink this, I suppose. | 20:10 |
| david_boddie | I propose that we let people propose more as they go, but make them add them to the page so that they can see if it's getting out of hand. | 20:10 |
| david_boddie | pboddie: +1 | 20:11 |
| lac | +1 | 20:11 |
| pedronis | should we start asking for the talks themselves at some point | 20:11 |
| pedronis | ? | 20:11 |
| regebro | A repoze talk would be very good. I'll poke some people about that. | 20:11 |
| david_boddie | regebro: Is it on the suggestions page? ;-) | 20:12 |
| regebro | david_boddie: Not yet. :) | 20:12 |
| pboddie | Yes, there's a draft here: http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/CallForParticipationDraft | 20:12 |
| david_boddie | pedronis: Yes, we need to get the infrastructure ready. | 20:12 |
| pboddie | Most important is *how* we take submissions from the community. I want to know that the workflow is taken care of. | 20:12 |
| david_boddie | regebro: Hint, hint. | 20:12 |
| lac | PyCONUK is next week, correct? | 20:14 |
| lac | how did you get submissions in and how did that work for you? | 20:14 |
| pboddie | I can set up a page telling people how to submit talks, but there needs to be an endpoint. | 20:14 |
| pboddie | lac: It's UKUUG Spring 2008 not PyCon UK. | 20:14 |
| lac | oops, sorry. | 20:14 |
| * mgedmin remembers the meeting | 20:15 | |
| pinner | OK, we've used email for submissions | 20:15 |
| david_boddie | Still, if there isn't a website for submissions, perhaps we should just set up a mailing list and start archiving suggestions. | 20:15 |
| lac | ok, then, can we just clone what PyCON UK did last year for talks to get our talks? | 20:15 |
| *** mgedmin changes topic to "EuroPython 2008 - import this | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/europython-irclog/ | mailing list at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/ | next meeting on Friday 21th March at 19:00 CET" | 20:15 | |
| pinner | I have done a silly simple system with our Thyme development system | 20:15 |
| pinner | the talks details, bios etc are pasted into Thyme screens | 20:16 |
| pinner | Python scripts generate static html for talks and speaker bios on the site | 20:16 |
| lac | is this what you used last time or a new thing? | 20:17 |
| pinner | a schedule is constructed manually user bits of paper and a Python dictionary | 20:17 |
| david_boddie | Sounds familiar... | 20:17 |
| pinner | the another Python script generates the html timetable | 20:17 |
| lac | very familiar. :-) | 20:17 |
| jacob22 | pinner: Given the time issues, I think this is the best solution. | 20:17 |
| pinner | it works and is simple | 20:17 |
| pinner | last time we used PyCon US tech-python | 20:18 |
| pinner | this was easier to use, for me anyway | 20:18 |
| david_boddie | jacob22: +1 (good idea) | 20:18 |
| pboddie | Let's not overdo this. It seems to me that PyCon made a sophisticated system which probably approached Indico levels of workflow complexity for a very limited benefit. | 20:19 |
| david_boddie | Can we set up a private mailing list for submissions? | 20:19 |
| pboddie | Output quality is not always directly proportional to process complexity. | 20:19 |
| pinner | the problem is that these systems start out with good intentions | 20:19 |
| pinner | but then degenerate into geek complexity overload | 20:20 |
| david_boddie | Or do we already have a europython-submissions list? | 20:20 |
| pboddie | Maybe we could have europython-talks@python.org as a private (or almost private) list. | 20:20 |
| jacob22 | Maybe we can ask the talk submitters to use a simple xml format in their emails: <title> blah </title><abstract>bleh</abstract>... | 20:20 |
| pinner | jacob22: they need something simple: plain text works for them | 20:20 |
| lac | jacob22: so far asking people for something more complicated than html hasn't worked. they just don't know how. | 20:21 |
| jacob22 | Ok.Experience talks. | 20:21 |
| david_boddie | Let's just be flexible. Plain text, HTML, ReST, LaTeX. | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | how many talks there were last year? | 20:22 |
| lac | I forget, but not an excessive number. | 20:22 |
| pedronis | around 60 | 20:22 |
| pedronis | maybe a bit more | 20:22 |
| jacob22 | About 100 talks in total. | 20:22 |
| pinner | david_boddie: just plain text for the submissions, please, the talks can be something else, like html or pdf | 20:22 |
| pedronis | we only rejected a frw | 20:22 |
| pedronis | a few | 20:22 |
| pboddie | There are 89 entries in the contributions list in Indico. | 20:22 |
| pedronis | those are not all submitted talks though, I think | 20:23 |
| pboddie | If we have a lot of talks which then causes administrative problems, then we have a luxury problem. Last year, I felt that we didn't have enough talks. | 20:23 |
| david_boddie | pinner: OK. Just thinking of the old days when people needed to submit equations in their abstracts. ;-) | 20:24 |
| pboddie | The principal workflow problem is letting people get to the talks to review them. | 20:24 |
| lac | I don't know how one gets an account on europython.org. Anybody done that before? | 20:24 |
| pinner | there were a few empty spaces, I thought there were a lot fewer talks than 80 | 20:24 |
| pedronis | as I said we had maybe 65 talks or something like that | 20:24 |
| lac | I think that if 'the talks' are to be the centre of europython, then we had too few. But I think it will be easier to fix things by | 20:24 |
| regebro | Would we get more talks if they were shorter? Less pressure? | 20:24 |
| pinner | lac: what do you mean, a login to the server, or to the wiki? | 20:24 |
| jacob22 | We need instructions for what people should put in their submissions. Title, abstract, bio, topic etc. Who makes those? | 20:25 |
| pboddie | lac: Go to the site and click on the "Login" button at the bottom of the page. | 20:25 |
| lac | making talks only one thing there, and then we can beef up the other parts. | 20:25 |
| pboddie | lac: It's explained here: http://www.europython.org/community/Participants | 20:25 |
| pinner | jacob22: samuele? | 20:25 |
| lac | pinner: no not the wiki, which I can use just fine. But if we want europython-submissions@python.org | 20:26 |
| lac | then we need to talk to somebody at python.org about it, and I don't know what their rules are. | 20:26 |
| pedronis | that's python.org | 20:26 |
| pedronis | you need to go through postmaster there | 20:26 |
| pinner | lac: OK, I asked Barry Warsaw | 20:26 |
| pedronis | or pydotorg | 20:26 |
| jacob22 | regebro: I don't think so. We only had 30 minute slots last year, and that is a fairly short time for presenting any topic. | 20:26 |
| lac | I think it is possible we would get more talks if there was the possibility of them being longer, but the people who want a shorter talk just do a lighgtninhg talk | 20:27 |
| pboddie | lac: We didn't have problems setting up europython-improve and the hardly-ever-used europython-volunteer lists. | 20:28 |
| lac | yes, stevea did that. | 20:28 |
| david_boddie | So, shall we just proceed with the mailing lists? | 20:28 |
| regebro | Maybe we should have scheduled lightning talks then? | 20:28 |
| lac | so we can probably have one. If not I can make one on the pbf machine at work, or something. | 20:29 |
| pedronis | you need to be able and wanting to go to the conference to give a talk | 20:29 |
| lac | david_boddie: I think so, yes. | 20:29 |
| pedronis | I think we had also slightly less people last year | 20:29 |
| david_boddie | So, we just need to figure out if we want a python.org, europython.org or other address and aim for that. | 20:29 |
| lac | where is europython.org these days? | 20:30 |
| pboddie | lac: John is hosting it. | 20:30 |
| lac | then I am in favour of keeping the lists there. | 20:30 |
| pboddie | lac: I need to get access to the site if Zeth is too busy (perhaps with LUG Radio Live). | 20:30 |
| lac | John: is that possible? | 20:31 |
| pinner | lac: for you, everything is possible ;) | 20:31 |
| pinner | pboddie: zeth is hors de comabt in April, doing his master's dissertation | 20:31 |
| pinner | combat | 20:32 |
| pboddie | pinner: Then I may need access to make some fixes and changes, if that's OK. | 20:32 |
| pboddie | Are we doing refereed papers this year? | 20:33 |
| pboddie | It seems that there's only ever one or two. Perhaps The Python Papers would be a useful collaborator if we want to keep that up. | 20:33 |
| lac | pboddie: I want to, but I haven't asked armin about it yet, | 20:33 |
| pinner | pboddie:ok, we'll sort that offline | 20:34 |
| lac | I think the Python papers would be useful, yes, and there are actually more talks than that -- 5 or 6 | 20:34 |
| pboddie | pinner: If you need contact details just ask. | 20:34 |
| lac | significanly, some of the presenters can only get their universities to pay for them to come if they present a refereed talk. | 20:34 |
| david_boddie | This leads us on to talking about "theme captains", doesn't it? | 20:35 |
| lac | and they always want to keep this in. I should try to find some way to get them to get more talks from more academics | 20:35 |
| pedronis | I think we never managed to do a serious job of the refereed track | 20:35 |
| jacob22 | pedronis: So, what would it take to make a serious job? | 20:36 |
| david_boddie | pedronis: More volunteers? | 20:36 |
| pedronis | set a quality level and reject stuff | 20:36 |
| lac | I think we need more papers, so we need more awareness that this is there, in academic circles, which mostly don't know. | 20:37 |
| lac | having EP the same week at Oopsla Europe is also not a good thing for us this year. | 20:37 |
| david_boddie | Are we talking about people in CS or other subjects? | 20:37 |
| david_boddie | lac: And there's a Scientific Python conference now, isn't there? | 20:37 |
| pboddie | EuroSciPy - it's later in July, I think. | 20:38 |
| lac | So far they have been mostly CS, the problem with the ones in other subjects is that you need to find somebody who can tell | 20:38 |
| lac | no, what I am talking about is exactly the same week. | 20:39 |
| lac | we need to find soemb ody who can tell if the talk is any good or not. | 20:39 |
| pedronis | david_boddie: and some professor on the selection comittee would help | 20:39 |
| pedronis | have a credible image | 20:40 |
| zeth | Hi all | 20:40 |
| pedronis | for the refeered track | 20:40 |
| david_boddie | pedronis: Yes. | 20:40 |
| pboddie | zeth: Hello! | 20:40 |
| jacob22 | I think there has to be a CS element to the research in the paper, otherwise we are not qualified to referee. | 20:40 |
| david_boddie | jacob22: Sure. The refereed element is difficult - it's easier to find people to give talks than to find people to referee them. | 20:40 |
| lac | http://2008.ecoop.org/ | 20:41 |
| pboddie | Sadly, I think we may be a bit behind in trying to get this done for this time. The lead time on academic stuff often seems to be quite long. | 20:41 |
| zeth | pboddie (Hi, sorry I am an email or two behind, we can catch up after this meeting) | 20:41 |
| pboddie | zeth: Sure! | 20:41 |
| lac | I will mail the people who submitted last year and see what they have to say. | 20:42 |
| david_boddie | I think it's worth trying to have an academic track, but someone needs to step forward and hunt down some academics. | 20:42 |
| lac | shall we move on? | 20:43 |
| pboddie | david_boddie: All the academics I know are a bit outside the domain. | 20:43 |
| david_boddie | pboddie: Likewise. | 20:43 |
| david_boddie | lac: I think so. | 20:43 |
| lac | any feedback on tutorials? | 20:43 |
| david_boddie | Well, the Wiki got some updates as a result of the announcments. | 20:43 |
| pboddie | I'll wait for news of the infrastructure, but keep an eye on this page: http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/CallForParticipationDraft | 20:43 |
| david_boddie | But the feedback seems to be mostly about talks rather than tutorials. | 20:44 |
| david_boddie | lac: As I said, I don't want to suddenly spam the tutor mailing list, but who would I talk to about that? | 20:45 |
| lac | whoever is listed as the maintainer of the list, I would guess | 20:46 |
| david_boddie | Ah, I see the list of people at the foot of the archive page... | 20:46 |
| * david_boddie learns something new | 20:47 | |
| lac | :-) | 20:47 |
| lac | Ok, do we need to say anything more about code clinic and unconference? | 20:49 |
| pboddie | We could perhaps mention in the call for proposals that we're willing to entertain unconventional ideas. | 20:49 |
| lac | I think the second shoudl wait for mrtopf, and michael sparks if I can rememebr to remind him to come by at a EP meeting | 20:49 |
| david_boddie | pboddie: Especially from sponsors. ;-) | 20:49 |
| lac | pboddie: +1 | 20:50 |
| lac | david_boddie: another good idea. :-) | 20:50 |
| lac | ok, marius, did you find out anything about the hotel conferencing system? | 20:52 |
| mgedmin | alga called the hotel today | 20:52 |
| lac | on good friday? | 20:52 |
| lac | I suppose somebody will get back to you, or did they have answers? | 20:53 |
| mgedmin | they can offer some ISDN videoconferencing solution, which would mean 600 LTL to the hotel (for the use of their equipment), and 12 LTL per minute for the call itself (if we call the US, rather than gave Guido call us) | 20:53 |
| lac | I am pretty sure we can pass all of these costs on to Google, so this shouldn't be a problem | 20:53 |
| lac | Do we have somebody who can talk to the Google techs about how to get this to work together? | 20:54 |
| mgedmin | somebody from the hotel? | 20:54 |
| mgedmin | or somebody from the local europython organisers? | 20:54 |
| lac | somebody from the hotel whose job is AV would be best, assuming we have one that speaks english. | 20:55 |
| jacob22 | We can't trust the internet to transport the keynote? | 20:55 |
| lac | beause what I think this will boil down to is for me to ask Guido for the name of the AV guys at google, and then they will want to talk to somebody. | 20:55 |
| mgedmin | right | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | I've the phone number of the guy we're supposed to be coordinating with about this | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | but he's not a techie | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | he's the director of the conference center | 20:56 |
| lac | jacob22: no, more like we cannot trust the hotel to be able to decode google's signals unless we check things out first. | 20:56 |
| pboddie | jacob22: Only if the connection is good enough. I don't do wireless networking, so I can't say whether it was good enough last year. | 20:57 |
| mgedmin | they also mentioned that they'd like to do a test before the conference to make sure everything works | 20:57 |
| pboddie | jacob22: Or even if wired networking was good enough. ;-) | 20:57 |
| lac | good. then whoever wants to do the test wants to talk to the av people at google who want the same thing, | 20:58 |
| lac | and once we get that to work guido can just present. | 20:58 |
| jacob22 | pboddie: We'd have to do wired networking. Otherwise we'd have the attendee traffic interfering. | 20:58 |
| mgedmin | in retrospect, it would've been a good idea to get the email of someone technical from the hotel... | 20:58 |
| mgedmin | wired network is not a problem; we had it last year | 20:58 |
| pinner | jacob22: wouldn't the AV be over ISDN? | 20:59 |
| david_boddie | mgedmin: If we can get that then we can take this forward outside the meeting. | 20:59 |
| mgedmin | afaiu ISDN is not the only option | 20:59 |
| mgedmin | david_boddie: please clarify 'that' -- wired network? | 20:59 |
| mgedmin | or techie's email? | 20:59 |
| david_boddie | mgedmin: The e-mail address. | 21:00 |
| david_boddie | mgedmin: Then we can get the Google people and the conference centre people to talk to each other. :-) | 21:00 |
| jacob22 | I think we need to get in contact with someone at Google, to see what they have to say. SInce they do video conferencing all the time, they should have the experience in what works and what doesn't. | 21:01 |
| pinner | jacob22: and they have a vested interest in it working properly | 21:01 |
| mgedmin | there's always the option of using a fat internet uplink and having Google's people connect their own equipment to it, I suppose | 21:01 |
| david_boddie | Who wants to send the e-mails to Google? :-) | 21:02 |
| lac | I am already doing this, so I should keep on doing so. | 21:03 |
| lac | and what I needed was somebody technical for the google techs to talk with. | 21:03 |
| lac | so mail me email addresses, and we can get rolling on that. | 21:03 |
| lac | ok? | 21:03 |
| mgedmin | right, but that'll have to wait till next week, I'm afraid | 21:04 |
| lac | or is somebody looking for an excuse to talk with google. | 21:04 |
| mgedmin | I don't think the director would be happy to get a phone call during Easter... | 21:04 |
| lac | mgedmin: that's ok, they wonät be at work until wednesday earlierst anyhow | 21:04 |
| lac | and its not a rush item, in fact the reason to do it early is to get it out of the way | 21:05 |
| lac | of course, if everyhting doesnt work, it will be nice ot have time, too. | 21:05 |
| lac | lets see -- budget -- no news from aiste, since she is on vacation. | 21:06 |
| david_boddie | Do we have enough time in this meeting to talk about sponsors and finance? | 21:06 |
| lac | I think so if we are brief. | 21:06 |
| david_boddie | Any news? | 21:06 |
| pinner | don't forget registration | 21:06 |
| lac | worldpay hasn't said anything, but it wasn't looing good. | 21:06 |
| jacob22 | I have made a draft offer to sponsors. | 21:06 |
| pinner | lac: then it has to be PayPal? | 21:07 |
| jacob22 | http://wiki.python.org/moin/SponsorOffers | 21:07 |
| david_boddie | jacob22: OK, I'll take a look and send you feedback. | 21:07 |
| pboddie | jacob22: Yes, I'll take a look. | 21:08 |
| lac | pinner: looks like it. | 21:08 |
| jacob22 | david_boddie: Thanks. | 21:08 |
| pinner | There is a draft registration page at http://80.68.80.239/europython_registration/ | 21:08 |
| pinner | to finish it I need info re fees, tutorials etc | 21:08 |
| pinner | that will be obvious from the registration page, it will be a good Aunt Sally | 21:09 |
| pinner | also can we have a contacts page on the wiki | 21:09 |
| lac | extra dinner is 35 not 30 Euros. | 21:09 |
| pinner | somewhere for people to contact for help | 21:10 |
| pinner | lac: all the figures are made up | 21:10 |
| pboddie | I think we need to discuss fees, and there was some talk about that on comp.lang.python. | 21:10 |
| lac | I would like to have a VOLUNTEER button on the page, too. | 21:10 |
| pboddie | See here for previous years: http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython/2007/FeeStructureAttendees | 21:10 |
| jacob22 | pinner: Is name, email, nationality etc on a different page? | 21:10 |
| pinner | I've not configured the shopping cart yet, but it's there | 21:10 |
| pboddie | mgedmin: It'd be nice to be able to book the hotel online this year! | 21:11 |
| pinner | jacob22: yes, you only get to fill in personal details once you've been hooked and chosen what you want | 21:11 |
| jacob22 | pinner: Ok. | 21:12 |
| pinner | jacob22: research shows that filling in your personal details first puts you off booking at all | 21:12 |
| mgedmin | pboddie: there's a booking form on http://www.revalhotels.com/en/78929 | 21:12 |
| lac | I'm interested in finding out people's food preferences not just for the dinner | 21:12 |
| jacob22 | pinner: That is a very interesting fact. I'll remember that. | 21:12 |
| pboddie | mgedmin: If we can use this to book at the special rate (using a code) then that might be perfect! | 21:12 |
| mgedmin | there's an entry for "promotional code" | 21:13 |
| pinner | pboddie: I think the uncertainty of booking hotels deters people from booking the conference | 21:13 |
| pboddie | They didn't give us a code last year - it was all done by fax. :-/ | 21:13 |
| mgedmin | also, this looks promising: http://www.revalhotels.com/en/Best-Rate-Guarantee-online-form | 21:13 |
| pboddie | pinner: Agreed. Uncertainty is bad. | 21:13 |
| pinner | pboddie: so booking hotel as well as conference is good for the conference, but it would be extra work for someone local (Aiste?) | 21:13 |
| jacob22 | Hotel booking adds a level of complexity. You have arrival, departure, singel/double smoking/non-smoking to take into account. Someone needs to code that. | 21:14 |
| pboddie | pinner: I just assume that the hotel is likely to reserve some space given the probability that many attendees will stay there. They could make it easier for everyone by setting up a promotional code and letting us send people to their site to make the booking. | 21:15 |
| lac | its looking to me as if the hotel already has an online form to do this. | 21:15 |
| * mgedmin is surprised to discover that hotels have smoking rooms | 21:15 | |
| lac | so all we would have to do is link to the hotel page. | 21:15 |
| pboddie | I'm not advocating full integration with the hotel's systems. | 21:15 |
| pinner | pboddie: that would be a practical solution | 21:16 |
| pboddie | They just need to give us a reasonable minimum, which they didn't really do last year. | 21:16 |
| jacob22 | In any case, our most pressing issue is to let more people know that there is a conference. They can't register unless they know... | 21:17 |
| pinner | we shouldn't forget that people can stay in much cheaper hotels than the Reval: we could list them on the wiki | 21:17 |
| lac | the other question is what do we do about people who want cheaper accomodation than this hotel. do we have links for hostels and the like? | 21:17 |
| mgedmin | I think we should | 21:17 |
| david_boddie | pinner, lac: There should already be information about that. | 21:17 |
| pboddie | http://www.europython.org/community/Places_to_Stay | 21:18 |
| david_boddie | But we could always use more, especially from people who attended last year. | 21:18 |
| david_boddie | Anything more to discuss? | 21:20 |
| * pinner needs to be going soon, or risk divorce (again) ;) | 21:21 | |
| jacob22 | I think we are done. | 21:21 |
| * david_boddie is done. :-) | 21:21 | |
| pboddie | pinner: I'll try and catch up with Zeth over the site. | 21:22 |
| regebro | cool | 21:22 |
| pinner | pboddie: I think he's expecting to talk with you now | 21:22 |
| lac | great, thank you everybody. | 21:22 |
| lac | bang bang bang, and the official meeting is over. | 21:22 |
| david_boddie | I'll write up some actions points on the Wiki: http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython/2008/IRCMeetings/IRCMeeting7 | 21:22 |
| pinner | have a good weekend, everyone | 21:23 |
| lac | Zeth: best of luck with your dissertation. | 21:23 |
| lac | david: thank you. | 21:23 |
| lac | happy easter everybody | 21:23 |
| *** MrTopf has joined #europython | 21:23 | |
| lac | hi christian. you just missed it. | 21:23 |
| jacob22 | MrTopf: Though there is a log. See the channel subject. | 21:24 |
| MrTopf | I guessed so.. just back home | 21:24 |
| *** pinner has quit IRC | 21:24 | |
| MrTopf | having a look | 21:24 |
| david_boddie | MrTopf: Anything to report? | 21:24 |
| zeth | lac Thanks | 21:25 |
| MrTopf | well, not really. You and Paul have access to the blog is all the news I have. Beside that of course what I posted to the list re video and unconference style | 21:25 |
| pboddie | zeth: I think we have to correspond in the channel because I'm not registered for private chat. | 21:26 |
| david_boddie | I think we'll have some unconference elements, so don't worry too much about that. | 21:26 |
| pboddie | MrTopf: I need to re-read your messages in order to get some unconference ideas into the different announcements. | 21:26 |
| lac | I was wondering how 'unconference' and 'Teach Me X' sessions might work together? nicely or bad idea? | 21:27 |
| MrTopf | my main point is maybe that the unconference part should not be at the same time with something different | 21:27 |
| pboddie | The idea of having a morning dedicated to unconference stuff, perhaps. | 21:27 |
| MrTopf | well, on barcamps everything is possible, from asking "hey, how do you guys think, x works or should work" to some presentation | 21:27 |
| lac | that was sort of my question. are 'teach me X' sessions the sort of thing that could be scheduled with the unconference, or not? | 21:28 |
| MrTopf | I think they can | 21:28 |
| jacob22 | lac: Maybe they could go in parallell. | 21:28 |
| MrTopf | wasn't this the case at PyCon? | 21:28 |
| MrTopf | some openspace in which this happened? | 21:28 |
| lac | mrTopf: I think so, from what I read. | 21:29 |
| MrTopf | btw, I might do a talk about Python and Second Life | 21:29 |
| MrTopf | esp. about the grid interoperability protocol we are developing and on which I am of course working in Python | 21:30 |
| MrTopf | maybe also some people from Linden Lab will come | 21:30 |
| MrTopf | they released some python libs recently so that might be nice | 21:30 |
| david_boddie | MrTopf: http://www.europython.org/community/Talk_Suggestions | 21:30 |
| david_boddie | :-) | 21:30 |
| MrTopf | I know :) | 21:31 |
| MrTopf | will put it on there after reading the log | 21:31 |
| MrTopf | the teach me twisted link is broken btw | 21:31 |
| david_boddie | Link syntax changed in MoinMoin at some point. :-) | 21:33 |
| MrTopf | very good ;-) | 21:34 |
| MrTopf | we should make some "I go to EuroPython" badges/buttons :) | 21:35 |
| mgedmin | yum | 21:36 |
| mgedmin | also maybe "I help organise EuroPython" | 21:36 |
| mgedmin | to attract more volunteers | 21:36 |
| mgedmin | "here's a sweet candy... now sit and review these talk proposals!" | 21:36 |
| lac | there's a thought. | 21:36 |
| MrTopf | yep, maybe also good :) | 21:36 |
| MrTopf | what's the state of the logo btw? | 21:36 |
| MrTopf | seems, all those groups I am active these days have a logo problem ;-) | 21:37 |
| MrTopf | same with Data Portability who are in the selection phase now | 21:37 |
| MrTopf | I will also post a shorter checklist for video recording to the list soon | 21:37 |
| MrTopf | so if we can sort out what's possible with the hotel the "only" thing needed might be volunteers | 21:38 |
| MrTopf | but I will probably again record something although I don't know if I have the time to edit it later | 21:38 |
| david_boddie | Did anyone contact you about editing? I thought I saw someone offer help on some mailing list or other. | 21:41 |
| lac | I don't think we have looked at and voted on the logo yet. | 21:41 |
| MrTopf | as said, the best would really be to directly do it either online or capture it to disk when you do it | 21:42 |
| MrTopf | editing is always going to take forever or never get done | 21:42 |
| david_boddie | lac: We're waiting for some Wiki upgrades. | 21:42 |
| MrTopf | I haven't seen anybody regarding helping with editing though | 21:42 |
| MrTopf | not sure I missed something | 21:42 |
| david_boddie | Maybe I was mistaken. | 21:42 |
| MrTopf | the main question might be if there can be a cam/tripod/laptop in every room with volunteers | 21:43 |
| MrTopf | me recording some stuff is only the minimum solution I think | 21:43 |
| MrTopf | I might do some experimentation on how this can be captured on-site | 21:44 |
| lac | maybe it was helping to edit Pycon videos | 21:44 |
| MrTopf | I'd think that iMovie can do this but the new version sucks ;-) but a ScreenCasting app like ScreenFlow might be able to do it | 21:44 |
| MrTopf | btw, we don't need a sponsor for video hosting, there are enough services ;-) | 21:45 |
| david_boddie | lac: Maybe. I read something in a long thread about conferences. | 21:45 |
| MrTopf | what is the exchange rate to EUR again actually? | 21:45 |
| MrTopf | just reading about the ISDN costs | 21:45 |
| lac | christian, i think you should post something along the lines of 'I am organising a team of people to record EP, do second life things, and whatever else strikes you' | 21:45 |
| lac | 'how much we can do depends on how much help I get | 21:46 |
| lac | interested in volunteering?' | 21:46 |
| mgedmin | MrTopf: 1 EUR = 3.45 LTL | 21:46 |
| lac | and post to python-list and europython and the usual places. | 21:46 |
| MrTopf | mgedmin: thanks | 21:46 |
| MrTopf | yep, will do next week | 21:46 |
| mgedmin | MrTopf: I usually use google as the currency converter | 21:47 |
| mgedmin | just search for "1234 LTL to EUR" or whatever | 21:47 |
| MrTopf | it's easy syntax but I never can remember nevertheless ;-) | 21:47 |
| MrTopf | mgedmin: can you also find out if it's possible to get another dedicated line for video streaming? | 21:47 |
| MrTopf | and how expensive this might eventually be | 21:48 |
| david_boddie | MrTopf: And blog about it. Planet Python is now picking up the EuroPython blog. | 21:48 |
| mgedmin | IIRC last year we got a dedicated line for our internet access | 21:48 |
| mgedmin | because we decided the hotel's uplink was too slow for 300 geeks | 21:48 |
| MrTopf | david_boddie: cool :) | 21:48 |
| MrTopf | I should also hook up my own blog with that planet.. what's the procedure there? | 21:48 |
| mgedmin | but I was only involved with the technical details (setting up the router), and don't know the price/etc. | 21:48 |
| MrTopf | mgedmin: I guess we'd need 2 then if we want to stream live (which I still think is the best option) | 21:49 |
| david_boddie | MrTopf: You're the Wordpress expert! | 21:49 |
| david_boddie | MrTopf: Sorry - I misunderstood. | 21:49 |
| mgedmin | what's cheaper: an ISDN call for 90 minutes, or a second dedicated Internet line? | 21:49 |
| david_boddie | MrTopf: I'll ask pboddie. | 21:49 |
| MrTopf | david_boddie: but who needs to be contacted for the planet is my question ;-) | 21:49 |
| pboddie | webmaster@python.org | 21:49 |
| MrTopf | ah, easy enough | 21:49 |
| MrTopf | mgedmin: well, I am talking about streaming all the talks | 21:50 |
| mgedmin | ah, sorry | 21:50 |
| MrTopf | or at least the big room | 21:50 |
| mgedmin | I was thinking about Guido's keynote | 21:50 |
| MrTopf | so it can be recorded on ustream.tv and we don't have to deal with post production | 21:50 |
| mgedmin | how much bandwidth is needed for video streaming, in practical terms? | 21:50 |
| MrTopf | let me check | 21:51 |
| MrTopf | it says 300kbps or higher is recommended | 21:53 |
| MrTopf | but you can move video quality down and it should be less.. | 21:54 |
| xorAxAx | the larger issue will be the QOS | 21:55 |
| MrTopf | we apparently need q=100% for s=ustream ;-) | 21:55 |
| xorAxAx | if the the upstream or downstream dont have enough headroon | 21:55 |
| MrTopf | but if it's the only traffic on that line? | 21:55 |
| mgedmin | that's the rationale for a dedicated line, right | 21:56 |
| MrTopf | right | 21:56 |
| mgedmin | which boils down to "can we trust the isp?" | 21:56 |
| MrTopf | I don't want to live in a world in which you cannot even trust your ISP... | 21:57 |
| mgedmin | "we guarantee nine fives of reliability" -- userfriendly.org | 21:57 |
| mgedmin | " mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm", says the cat | 21:57 |
| MrTopf | :-) | 21:58 |
| *** ghum has joined #europython | 21:58 | |
| MrTopf | well, it would be good to know if a (2nd) dedicated is possible nevertheless ;-) | 21:58 |
| ghum | ups | 21:58 |
| MrTopf | Hey ghum | 21:58 |
| ghum | to late, sorry | 21:59 |
| ghum | hi | 21:59 |
| MrTopf | me, too ;-) | 21:59 |
| * mgedmin has to go | 21:59 | |
| mgedmin | bye | 21:59 |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 21:59 | |
| MrTopf | ghum: you can read what has happened so far by clicking on the first link in the topic | 22:00 |
| ghum | wow | 22:01 |
| ghum | great | 22:01 |
| david_boddie | ghum: Hi. Are you going to be in charge of lightning talks again this year? ;-) | 22:02 |
| ghum | I would love to, david_boddie | 22:02 |
| ghum | so if I am allowed, I will :) | 22:03 |
| * david_boddie is losing focus. Two hours of meeting and post-meeting discussion is tiring. :-) | 22:04 | |
| * ghum is scanning irc_log | 22:04 | |
| *** regebro has left #europython | 22:06 | |
| zeth | MrTopf if you are thinking of recording | 22:10 |
| zeth | MrTopf please keep it on a need-toknow-basis | 22:10 |
| zeth | MrTopf otherwise people won't come in person | 22:10 |
| zeth | MrTopf they will just lie in bed and watch it on TV | 22:10 |
| zeth | MrTopf conference > talks | 22:11 |
| xorAxAx | not really :) | 22:12 |
| xorAxAx | cf. the c3 in berlin | 22:13 |
| MrTopf | I doubt that they will do that ;-) | 22:13 |
| MrTopf | actually I am not mainly coming because of the talks but because of the people | 22:13 |
| ghum | hmmm... I guess we could make the fee 3117 LTL | 22:13 |
| ghum | ups | 22:14 |
| ghum | to much | 22:14 |
| zeth | yeah I come because of the people too | 22:16 |
| lac | I think that our conferences give you more of an opportunity to do things with people rather than just listen to talks. | 22:20 |
| ghum | it's like StarWars VI on the movie screen (=conference) and on the ipod (=talk on utube) | 22:28 |
| MrTopf | even the very traditional ones are more about the people you meet I think | 22:30 |
| MrTopf | Barcamps are then of course only about the people | 22:30 |
| MrTopf | that's why I also actually think it's good to stream live because then you have at least the feeling of attending compared to watching it afterwards recorded. I know that I hardly do that but I would attend a live stream and maybe chat with people there while watching | 22:31 |
| MrTopf | (which is esp. nice in Second Life because you have the feeling of sitting together in front of a screen) | 22:32 |
| lac | ghum: I wouldn't want to do lightning talks without you hosting it. Great to know that you can this year. :-) | 22:33 |
| pboddie | Zeth and I have been upgrading the Wiki. There weren't many changes, actually, but we now have a blog feed on the front page, and the logos have been moved around. | 22:35 |
| ghum | somewhere on te mailing list I read dates for EP 2008 | 22:45 |
| ghum | 7-9 july, are those dates correct? | 22:46 |
| pboddie | Yes. Those are the correct dates. | 22:47 |
| *** ghum changes topic to "EuroPython 2008 7h-9th July, Vilnius - import this | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/europython-irclog/ | mailing list at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/ | next meeting on Friday 21th March at 19:00 CET" | 22:47 | |
| zeth | ghum, can the http://www.europython.org be in the topic? | 22:50 |
| zeth | in case someone new turns up here | 22:50 |
| zeth | so they can find out about the conference | 22:51 |
| *** ghum changes topic to "EuroPython 2008 7h-9th July, Vilnius - import this | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/europython-irclog/ | mailing list at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/ | www.europython.org" | 22:51 | |
| ghum | next meeting on friday 21 is only accessible for Guido and Timbot, using import timemachine; timemachine.moveto(datetime) anyway | 22:52 |
| *** ghum has quit IRC | 23:25 | |
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