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| sandst1 | Venemo: well, it's been 5 months, perhaps it's nowadays 'from pykickstart import kickstart' or sth similar instead of 'from kickstart import kickstart' | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| Venemo | sandst1, hmmmmm, I have no idea. | 00:10 |
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| sandst1 | me neither.. how about just grabbing a kickstart file from repo.meego.com and continuing from that? | 00:11 |
| Venemo | sandst1, I'll try | 00:12 |
| Venemo | sandst1, thanks for the tip :) | 00:12 |
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| sandst1 | np :) | 00:14 |
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| Venemo | sandst1, I'm feeling sleepy now, so I wish you a good evening | 00:15 |
| Venemo | bye! | 00:15 |
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| sandst1 | Venemo: yup, me too. o/ | 00:17 |
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| Stskeeps | morn TSCHAKeee | 07:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | hey man | 07:56 |
| Stskeeps | how are things? | 07:57 |
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| TSCHAKeee | Stskeeps: thinking through a lot of stuff. Been doing free/open source software development for over 20 years, and am deciding whether or not I want to continue... I keep asking myself this question, "If it takes us 50 years, to do what Apple can do in 10, is it still worth it?" ... I do not have a definite answer yet. | 08:07 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: hm, 13 years here by now, though not as fanatic as originally and there's some things i'd only do for money these days compared to before.. :P | 08:08 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: happen to have seen alterego's demo btw? | 08:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | *nod* and no, I haven't. | 08:08 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 08:09 |
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| Stskeeps | http://hacking-mobility.blogspot.com/2011/10/qmlhtml5-application-state-transfer.html | 08:09 |
| tmzt_ | that sounds awesome | 08:09 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | TSCHAKeee, for my day job I had to test some Android apps from their Market against our codebase. I'll be the first to admit it was depressing! Many of the apps were crap, but the polish and performance of some was remarkable. | 09:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | *Nod* | 09:01 |
| Alison_Chaiken | I wish, wish, wish we had stuff like that for MeeGo/Mer. | 09:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | I really have been feeling dejected lately | 09:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | at this rate, LinuxMCE will be ready for people to use in about 50 years | 09:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | long after anyone gives a fuck. | 09:01 |
| Alison_Chaiken | One app, Torque, was similar to what tripzero and collaborators have been laboring over, and was so nice already! | 09:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | *nod* | 09:02 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Problem is people not working together, as you pointed out last night. Imagine if Google had used glibc and mostly unpatched kernel . . . forks hurt! | 09:02 |
| Stskeeps | hopefully we're moving towards a world where it's more about runtimes.. ie, like html5, qml, dalvik, etc.. | 09:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | *nod* | 09:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | the sad thing is, | 09:03 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Good point, Stskeeps. But actually my job now is to get those apps to run on GNU/Linux, which I totally feel good about! | 09:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | LinuxMCE has an amazing architecture.. .we'e been able to do things nobody else can even come close to doing... | 09:04 |
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| TSCHAKeee | but right now, because NO effort has been expended on style while the substance was being deveoped | 09:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | it is an assemblage of parts | 09:04 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: betamax-ish situation? | 09:04 |
| Alison_Chaiken | I should have a long look at LinuxMCE, but I'd better stop procrastinating on the talk I have to give in 10 hours! | 09:04 |
| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: i hope your employer will make something good :) i personally wouldn't mind, as a vendor, to pay for that layer on top of something like Mer | 09:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | heheh good luck, Alison_Chaiken :) | 09:05 |
| Stskeeps | and good luck with the talk | 09:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | Stskeeps: with us, what we have feels awkward and looks terrible | 09:05 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: yeah.. sad fact is that engineers are often, erm, not really aesthetically talented | 09:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | because we have nobody up top strangling the reigns and insisting on style | 09:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | Stskeeps: I have the qualifications and experience for UI, but i'm mired in too many other things | 09:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | and that position demands an overreaching ego | 09:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | something that never goes over well in open source projects | 09:07 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, that's one of the things you realize when you get to be an adult and having done OSS in your teens.. you find out that you have way less time than imagined | 09:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | yup | 09:07 |
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| TSCHAKeee | I know what is needed to make LinuxMCE great | 09:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | but it goes against open source dogma | 09:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | we have to restrict the platform hardware choices to...nothing. | 09:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | and we have to do the hardware and the software | 09:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | and we have to focus on user experience first. | 09:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | and I've dealt with far too many people who honestly think that there is a distinction of "style and substance" | 09:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | the two should never be separated. | 09:09 |
| TSCHAKeee | ever. | 09:09 |
| TSCHAKeee | in all of the things i've seen people use, that they love, the people who have created them followed a very simple mantra, "form follows function." | 09:10 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 09:10 |
| TSCHAKeee | anyway blah i am rambling, sorry. | 09:10 |
| Stskeeps | nah, not really rambling :) | 09:10 |
| TSCHAKeee | the work that Langston has been doing on the qml orbiter is a huge step forward | 09:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | although we are being bitten so hard in the arse right now | 09:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | trying to make it run on Android | 09:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | jesus #@(#@@ christ | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | too many dependancies on gnu/linux? | 09:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | the qt runtime needed overruns the space requirements of most android handsets | 09:12 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 09:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | and storing the stuff on SD card is _NOT_ an option | 09:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | (even if we wanted too, there are JNI restrictions preventing that) | 09:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | what we have works, but we're trying desperately to make it FIT. | 09:13 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders what lipstick homescreen toolkit will lead to of interesting things | 09:16 | |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuS00aA8QyM&feature=player_embedded | 09:16 |
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| Nathanael_Anders | Is there a better channel that would be better to ask at QT Meego/Harmattan question, than this one? | 09:38 |
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| Nathanael_Anders | Hey, anyone know what replaced QAbstractKineticScroller in Harmattan? I still see it in the 4.7 docs but it appears to be non-existant in Harmattan SDK. | 09:46 |
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| Stskeeps | Nathanael_Anders: #harmattan | 09:51 |
| Nathanael_Anders | @Stskeeps: Thx | 09:51 |
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| CosmoHill | hi | 13:38 |
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| MSM | CosmoHill Would you like to play a game? | 13:50 |
| pebcak | hehe | 13:57 |
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| niala | lo | 15:02 |
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| rayyen | a stupid question, on device development on the N9.. possible? any special repo needed? | 16:20 |
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| thiago | rayyen: ask in #harmattan please | 16:21 |
| rayyen | ah, sorry. | 16:21 |
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| * CosmoHill wonders what will happen with #meego | 16:28 | |
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| berndhs | I think it is actually very hard to remove an IRC channel, so #meego will be here for a long time | 16:31 |
| annma | CosmoHill: as long as you're here it's not dead! | 16:31 |
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| CosmoHill | just kidding | 16:31 |
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| dm8tbr | lbt: seems core obs transitioned from weekend downtimes to generally wonky. it maintains a 20% downtime on a 7day scale almost evenly spread in blocks of several hours | 16:47 |
| berndhs | yeah tizen activity is ramping up slowly | 16:47 |
| dm8tbr | and that's related? | 16:49 |
| berndhs | yes, (Uptime_meego + Uptime_tizen) = 1 | 16:50 |
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| dm8tbr | I'm sure hoping I'm oblivious to a joke here and you're not saying that tizen is purposely sabotaging MeeGo OBS | 16:52 |
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| berndhs | its a conspiracy theory, saying that the same resources are used to support meego and tizen | 16:53 |
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| Venemo | can someone help me with the jungle of MeeGo versioning? | 19:34 |
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| Venemo | what is the difference between 1.2 and 1.2.0.99 and 1.2.80 and 1.2.90? which one is the to-be 1.3? | 19:40 |
| berndhs | 1.2.90 -> 1.3, hypothetically | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | 1.2.0.99 becomes 1.2.1 | 19:42 |
| Venemo | mhm | 19:42 |
| Venemo | and what is 1.2.80? | 19:43 |
| Venemo | which version has the most chance of both working and having the multitouch bits? | 19:43 |
| berndhs | 1.2.80 was pre-pre 1.2.90, so 1.2.80 has the best guarantees of not working | 19:44 |
| Venemo | heh | 19:54 |
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| Venemo | ok | 19:56 |
| Venemo | what is the difference between 'kernel' and 'kernel-adaptation-pinetrail'? | 19:56 |
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| CosmoHill | http://black-flag.co.uk/code/ncurses-matrix-multiplication.html | 20:44 |
| * CosmoHill doesn't want to see ncurses again for a while | 20:44 | |
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| CosmoHill | can Qt be used to make a CLI program with a basic GUI like ncurses is used for? | 20:53 |
| thiago | Qt for NCurses has been the subject of several April Fools news reports | 20:53 |
| CosmoHill | no no i mean, Qt instead of Ncurses | 20:53 |
| thiago | there's no support for full-terminal text UIs in Qt | 20:54 |
| thiago | in fact, there's barely supprot for outputting anything | 20:54 |
| CosmoHill | ah I see | 20:54 |
| berndhs | the thing to do is format your text as html, and show a QTextBrowser or QML Text, or something of that sort | 20:55 |
| berndhs | you can make it look like a read-only xterm | 20:55 |
| * dm8tbr has seen horrible implementations of exactly that | 20:56 | |
| CosmoHill | you can see the program I've just made | 20:56 |
| berndhs | of course you can also implement showing text with lovely pseudo 3D-effects :) | 20:58 |
| berndhs | marketing loves that sort of thing | 20:58 |
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| * CosmoHill has only programmed CLI stuff | 21:04 | |
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| berndhs | CosmoHill: you should try some Qt GUi stuff for the heck of it, its pretty straightforward | 21:15 |
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| CosmoHill | I remember having fun problems with qmake on my mac | 21:26 |
| CosmoHill | you run qmake and then you edit what it's made so it will compile on powerpc | 21:26 |
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| Venemo | could anyone please tell me what the difference is between the 'kernel' and 'kernel-adaptation-pinetrail' packages? | 22:21 |
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| * CosmoHill is trying to implement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller-Rabin_primality_test#Algorithm_and_running_time | 22:24 | |
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| khaije|minder | is plasma active the new focus for us meego-enthusiasts? | 22:47 |
| khaije|minder | i just read about it on phoronix.com, it *looks* pretty good | 22:48 |
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| thiago | plasma active is one of the possible UIs | 22:51 |
| thiago | right now, the activity is on reconstructing the MeeGo Core | 22:51 |
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| khaije|minder | thiago: what do you mean when you say 'reconstructing the core'? | 22:54 |
| khaije|minder | are there sub-UI level components from Meego that aren't publicly available? | 22:54 |
| thiago | no, but they need to be maintained | 22:55 |
| khaije|minder | i wonder, is it plausible to port/merge Meego Core onto something more stable, such as Debian, then have the Plasma Active/Meego UX components mature from there? | 22:57 |
| khaije|minder | i ask because it feels that there is always some part of the stack that is having the rug pulled from under it in one way or another... this would provide a welcome stability | 22:58 |
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| TSCHAKeee | khaije|minder: well, now that it's just the community, how can that happen? | 22:59 |
| khaije|minder | perhaps it can't, but if resources are limited stand of the shoulders of giants | 23:01 |
| berndhs | debian or fedora won't maintain meego core for the community if resources are limited | 23:02 |
| khaije|minder | it wouldn't matter except that for projects of this sort to be successful it seems that they always need a reference implimentation | 23:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah, it...doesn't work like that | 23:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | in a perfect world, yeah. | 23:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | but....no. | 23:03 |
| khaije|minder | well what does Meego Core comprise of? | 23:03 |
| thiago | 302 packages | 23:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | a medium-lightweight linux distribution that is great for building appliance devices on top of. | 23:04 |
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| TSCHAKeee | it is one notch up from a busybox distribution, and still boots up fast | 23:04 |
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| berndhs | the big distros have 100 times as many packages, they have different goals | 23:05 |
| khaije|minder | ok, ya. Don't think I'm suggesting it's trivial, or even feasible... I'm just an interested party who would like to see the project continue to mature and develop | 23:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | cool | 23:06 |
| khaije|minder | something like embedian *might* lower the overhead | 23:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | how? | 23:06 |
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| khaije|minder | TSCHAKeee: rather than maintaining a seperate stack, patches could be based around embedian. It's still relatively young so contributors can be very influential | 23:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | some may do that | 23:08 |
| thiago | why don't they base against MeeGo? | 23:08 |
| thiago | MeeGo has 18 months of life and people running it have experience of making embedded distros | 23:08 |
| khaije|minder | thiago: if they were smart, maybe they would | 23:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | but meego core for me was a one stop shop to quickly assemble stuff for various devices i am working on | 23:09 |
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| khaije|minder | though one possible reason is they are concerned about future support | 23:09 |
| TSCHAKeee | i push stuff to obs, it builds packages, I cram them in the kickstart file, and I had a filesystem come out the other side. | 23:09 |
| khaije|minder | i don't doubt Meego Core rocks for a second | 23:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | the big lesson to learn from what has happened with Maemo, MeeGo etc | 23:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | is that you can't grow a community in a test tube. | 23:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | they just happen. they happen out of necessity. | 23:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | and out of want. | 23:12 |
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| * CosmoHill is not a test tube person | 23:12 | |
| TSCHAKeee | so whatever will happen to MeeGo will happen to MeeGo | 23:12 |
| * CosmoHill is a community | 23:12 | |
| * CosmoHill goes to take his pills | 23:12 | |
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| khaije|minder | TSCHAKeee: is that a counter-arguement to something I've said/proposed? | 23:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | oh, no.. it's not. | 23:15 |
| khaije|minder | waxing philosophical :) ? | 23:15 |
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| berndhs | one argument against joining a big distro is what happens to large organizations | 23:18 |
| * CosmoHill has taken over two small ons | 23:18 | |
| berndhs | they become more bureaucratic and less flexible, just because of their size | 23:18 |
| CosmoHill | ones* | 23:18 |
| * khaije|minder (oops!) i was saying embedian, but it's actually emdebian (emdebian.org) | 23:20 | |
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| khaije|minder | i propose that rebasing to emdebian isn't all gain, but it may be a net gain | 23:26 |
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| khaije|minder | I'm eager because after seeing video of some of the 1.1 UX tablets I decided it wasn't going to buy a tablet until I could get a UI that slick | 23:29 |
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| Venemo | how can I change the hostname of my MeeGo netbook? | 23:54 |
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