IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2011-09-06

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bkalingahi i am going through this wiki page http://wiki.meego.com/Local_Build_Without_OBS_Needed08:18
bkalingabut not able to figure out the development system in which all these can be done08:19
* slonopotamus especially loves "you need to run 'build' as root" part08:19
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bkalingaslonopotamus: All these must be done in Ubuntu(this is my host machine)08:20
bkalingaIf your host is MeeGo, you need to install one more package 'perl-XML-Parser'08:20
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bkalingabut nothing is mentioned for others08:20
Stskeepsbkalinga: instructions worked for me on fedora, too08:21
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: it builds a chroot and su's into abuild08:21
bkalingaStskeeps: all these steps are written keeping "chroot env"08:23
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bkalingaStskeeps: Lets consider i found a bug in libmeegotouch.. and i want to debug that and fix it08:24
bkalingacan i follow the steps mentioned in http://wiki.meego.com/Local_Build_Without_OBS_Needed08:25
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Stskeepsyes, i succesfully did that with a kernel yesterday: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/kernel-pinetrail.txt08:25
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bkalingaok once i successful in making  changes to source and able to build..how to test that08:26
Stskeepsrpm -i the packages..?08:27
Stskeepsor Uvh to be exact08:27
bkalingashall i use xephyr for the emulation purpose08:27
slonopotamusbtw. chroot manpage talks about CAP_SYS_CHROOT. how to grant it to user?08:27
bkalingaor i can put the binaries into qemu08:27
tmztno pinetrail support in qemu I would think08:28
Stskeepsbkalinga: probably xephyr, i only use real devices08:29
bkalingabut its very difficult while using xephyr emulation as navigation really sucks!!08:30
Stskeepsthen get a real device08:30
bkalingaonce i open settings page i can't go back to the home screen08:30
Stskeepspress windows key, i think08:30
bkalingaStskeeps: No device (i am looking for a tablet with MeeGo1.2)in the market yet, afaik08:31
* Stskeeps has to do some work, bbl08:31
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iekku:o08:35
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bkalingais there any MeeGo1.2 based tablets in the Market08:38
dm8tbrtabletUX was not released with 1.208:38
dm8tbrso, unlikely08:39
dm8tbrexopc is the reference hw08:39
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bkalingadm8tbr: On exopc any meego latest image for tablet can be easily installed?08:42
bkalingadm8tbr: http://www.exopc.com/devices/  spec says Operating System Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium, 32-bit Edition08:48
dm8tbrhttp://wiki.meego.com/Devices/ExoPC08:51
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bkalingadm8tbr: is there a dedicated device for MeeGo or people are using the one that comes with  Microsoft Windows 7  and making it dual boot.09:14
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dm8tbrbkalinga: the ones supplied by intel come preinstalled with some tablet image09:27
dm8tbrin my case it was the february alpha image09:27
dm8tbrthey still have the w7 sticker on the back for those people who care about that09:27
bkalingadm8tbr: does intel sells these09:28
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bkalingaor these are for few selected community members09:28
dm8tbrnot that I know of, they were giving them away to developers, but I think that program has closed09:28
bkalingaright...i just want to purchase one. but not sure if i purchase  http://www.exopc.com/devices/  then whether i will be able to make it dual boot with MeeGo or not09:30
dm8tbryes09:30
bkalingathat is why little hesitated09:30
bkalingadm8tbr: by yes, you mean it could be easily dual boot with meego tablet UX image09:31
dm8tbrhttp://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/blog/2011/07/07/creating-multi-boot-exopc-tablet09:31
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bkalingathanks dm8tbr: for your useful info09:33
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JaffaMorning, all10:19
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Stskeepsmorn10:22
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cityLightshere is why I love my N90010:54
cityLightsI forgot it at home10:54
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cityLightsso now I am seeking the dbus object to activate call forwarding10:55
cityLightscan't imagine doing it on any other "smart" phone10:55
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Hq`hmm, where are 1.2.90 weekly images?11:25
Stskeepsfor what vertical?11:25
Hq`for any of them :)11:26
Stskeepsrepo might be broken11:26
Stskeepscheck download.meego.com/snapshots11:26
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Hq`many of them seem to contain just a .log file11:31
Hq`for example: http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.90.1.0.20110901.1/images/meego-tablet-armv7hl-n900/11:31
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dm8tbrtablet seems to be still on 1.2 as is IVI11:33
dm8tbrfor 1.3 the first images were for n900, but also they are not that great yet11:34
Hq`oh, ok, so they're not even supposed to successfully build yet11:36
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henaumm, when did meego drop btrfs? or why does n950 have ext4? :)12:21
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Stskeepsn950 harmattan isnt meego.com12:22
henaah12:22
henawhy is my CE edition ext3? :)12:23
henas/edition//12:23
infobothena meant: why is my CE  ext3? :)12:23
Stskeepscos we don't use btrfs as it's a bit buggy12:23
henaok, thanks12:23
Stskeepscos of the many different hosts building images12:23
Stskeepsin newer kernels thats fixed but we dont use installers, so..12:24
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henait's ok, just got a bit confused :)12:28
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leinirlast i heard, even the btrfs devs suggested not using it in production systems... granted, that /was/ a few months ago, this might've changed :)12:37
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leinirbut, using something for which the overhead is that enormous, on devices which arguably are likely to have not very much space... seems a little silly ;)12:37
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TronicMaybe more importantly: is btrfs even faster/safer/better than ext4?12:38
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Stskeepsa long discussion :)12:38
Stskeepsi'd go for ZFS, personally ;)12:38
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TronicMany have tried to make faster filesystems for Linux, and failed at that. Even if you score better than others in bonnie++, it is not good if downloading a torrent makes a simple "ls" in your home folder take 20 seconds to complete (I've seen this happen).12:40
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jumpulaTronic: sounds like reiser312:41
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Stskeepsphilosophical discussion: does zypper belong in core?13:12
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metbsdmeego vs android, which is better13:56
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Stskeepsdoes it matter?13:56
Stskeeps:P13:56
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iekkuin what way?13:59
SpeedEvilMer!14:00
dm8tbrMoo!14:00
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* SpeedEvil idly wonders where mer would be if it had gone its own way at M5 intro.14:00
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iekkuso, it seems that Mer is best. next?14:01
StskeepsMoo isn't a bad one either14:02
Stskeeps:P14:02
SpeedEvilThere is no best in operating systems or computers.14:02
SpeedEvilIn some cases slackware is best, some maemo, some ios.14:03
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Myrttiaple1: moo moo14:10
Myrttimeh14:10
Myrttimoo14:10
Myrtti(thoughts somewhere else)14:10
jumpulamew?14:11
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x29aheya, you people already chatting about samsung takeover?14:27
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Stskeeps.. what takeover14:27
Stskeepshow can a open source project be taken over? :P14:27
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BManojlovicme takeover mine mine14:27
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x29aStskeeps: rumor has it, that intel gets rid of meego and samsung takes over14:28
Stskeepsyes, plenty of rumours around14:28
x29ai think samsung is just collecting operating systems14:29
Stskeepsremember meego is a project under the linux foundation14:29
alteregoIt would be cool if they became a sponsor14:29
x29aas cool as bada?14:29
alteregoI'd get samsung hardware with MeeGo on it if they started making good MeeGo products.14:29
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Stskeepsi think we can all agree something odd is going on, but what isn't clear.14:30
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alteregoNo smoke without fire aye ..14:33
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dm8tbrwell we're going to find out when intel thinks that it's appropriate to let us know. not much we can do about that14:37
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Curiosityhello!14:40
Stskeepshi Curiosity14:40
jieroAMD still stand there :D14:41
jieroAnywhere could find a AMD APU-based tablet with Meego?14:41
CuriosityI am in the process of learning meego multimedia stack to develop a new application, but I read about intel decision. Does it still worths to commit on this platform? I really like Meego, I hope it will not follows the WebOS way...14:42
SpeedEvilI would say wait a couple of weeks for an actual announcement14:43
StskeepsCuriosity: everything is rumour, intel has stated it's committed to meego14:43
SpeedEvilBefore changing course14:43
StskeepsCuriosity: but a lot of media doesn't read beyond the title of an article14:43
CuriosityStkeeps, you are right, I read about it too. Just it is really diffcult to move in tht mobile OS field, today, things change too much quickly!14:43
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niqthi14:57
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CosmoHill.o/15:49
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leinirjust 'cos ;) ♻ @notmart: now we haz wireless configuration in #plasma #active over #meego too ;) http://wstaw.org/m/2011/09/05/plasma-desktopSS2178.jpg16:12
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lcuk2thanks for putting the CE PSG steering group document on the wiki Stskeeps16:55
Stskeepsnp16:56
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Stskeepshad to be ready for the meeting, so16:56
lcuk2yeah I was afk16:56
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skye0218i+18:35
skye0218+i18:35
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skye0218?18:35
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berndhsyou shouldn't smoke stuff that make you float18:50
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npmwhen i use the qt-mobility audiorecorder example, I can record 16K FLAC file but when I rip out the same code from that example and put it into my own app, I get "Not compatible codecs and container format."  Could not create a media muxer element: ""  ..."Failed to build media capture pipeline."18:51
npmhowever, when the same code runs on N950/Harmattan  it works fine and when it runs on my desktop, it works as well. but it fails on MeeGo 1.2 tablet UX with above message. even though the 'audiorecorder' example works18:52
npm any suggestions? (i'm going to try compiling againgst qt-mobility 1.2 since perhaps meego has a borked version of mobility?)18:52
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lcuknpm, perhaps, not sure which version the tablet ux has18:52
npm interesting: /usr/lib/qtmobility/examples/audiorecorder from qt-mobility-examples-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-25.3 doesn't list audio/FLAC as a possible encoder, whereas the 1.2.0 final version does18:53
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npmwhy would going from MeeGo's 1.2 beta0 qt-mobility to 1.2.0 final release add "audio/FLAC" as a codec?18:53
npm(and why is MeeGo shipping a "beta0" QtMobility, when 1.2.0 final has been available for months?18:54
berndhsthey forgot it in the beta and added it later ?18:54
npmi really don't understand this whole approach of using known broken packages and then wasting time merging in random patches from upstream18:55
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npm(c.f. totally broken connman 0.69 shipping w/ meego 1.2, even though 0.7X is current and less buggy version)18:56
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slonopotamusthat's maemo-inherited disease - use old versions and put piles of home-made patches on top18:58
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npmbut that's now Intel's (MeeGo) disease. Harmattan seems to be using more current versions of things (e.g. Qt 4.7.4 instead of broken/obsolete 4.7.2 that doens't support latest QtQuick 1.1)19:00
Stskeepswell, that's because qt stuff got delayed beyond meego 1.2 deadline19:01
Stskeepsand well, harmattan isn't released19:01
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npmlooks released: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/19:02
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slonopotamus"beta" in url hints us19:03
npmwell i guess that's "beta" but then again, so is a package named "beta0"19:03
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gandhijee_hey guys, i have a netbook with meego 1.2 on it, i turned off the wifi and forgot to turn it back on before i rebooted.19:05
gandhijee_now everytime i start my laptop i have to manually turn on wifi, is there a solution to this?19:06
npmbios reset.19:06
npmor pull the battery for a few hours and let it reset naturally19:06
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gandhijee_npm: i actually already did that, thats for fixing wifi that breaks.  in this case, i just have to turn it on manually19:09
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npmwifi you turn on manually sounds like broken wifi and bios interaction with it19:11
gandhijee_i see19:11
npmi had the same problem. i stopped using the wifi switch because it seems to trigger a bios bug19:11
npmat least in lenovo s103t19:12
gandhijee_i am talking about the wifi switch in software in meego19:12
gandhijee_i don19:12
npmoh the soft switch19:12
gandhijee_t mess with the hardware switch19:12
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gandhijee_ya19:12
npmtha'ts because connman is borked :-(19:12
gandhijee_=( any fix?19:12
gandhijee_it seems to work on my other s10 just fine19:12
npmkillall connmand and restart it?19:13
npmreboot early and often :-)19:13
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gandhijee_i see =(19:49
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CosmoHilltar xf /mount/raid/sources/linux-2.6.39.tar.bz2  115.31s user 12.04s system 93% cpu 2:16.64 total20:24
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CosmoHillwoooo performace20:24
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Venemohow long is the battery life of the s10-3t running MeeGo?21:24
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npmi've been able to run 8-10 hours at least.21:39
npmbut who knows, i've customized it to hell (e.g. tracker doesn't run unless i tell it to)21:40
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npmand it's got an SSD21:41
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Venemonpm, what kind of battery is in it? 8 cell?21:42
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Venemonpm, also, what else did you customize in it?21:45
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npmVenemo: 8 cell, http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem22:04
lcuki can happily leave my s10 on the kitchen table all day22:05
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Venemothat is nice :)22:08
Venemothanks npm22:08
Venemooh btw, has anyone compiled Gnome 3 for MeeGo yet?22:09
npmi think there ought to be a gnome 3 meego "distro"22:09
Venemonever heard of it22:10
Stskeepsgnome3 meego UX, rather22:10
npmi was thinking more like somebody just put out the netbook build with the netbook stuff and mutter/clutter replaced by the gnome3 stuff22:11
Venemowell, the real question is, can I install gnome 3 from the meego repo or someone's obs account? and if so, can I configure uxlaunch to launch that?22:11
npmbe pretty easy to do with  http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem actually :-)22:11
Venemonpm, mixing Fedora stuff in, that sounds very hackish22:12
npmit is!22:12
Venemonpm, especially because Fedora has more recent versions of all packages22:12
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npmwhich is why i'm one of the few people that actually was using my meego netbook at the meego conference22:12
Venemowhy don't I just install Fedora instead of MeeGo?22:12
Venemobetter yet, why doesn't MeeGo collaborate more openly with Fedora and/or Red Hat?22:13
npmbecause it doesn't fit that well on a little netbook22:13
npmyeah i agree, there is a ridiculous amout of duplication of effort, for a project that shows it was once cloned off of fedora :-)22:13
npm(aka moblin)22:13
Venemosince most of the packages are identical between them22:13
npmmoblin was the first time i did "meego-lem" using fedora 1022:14
VenemoMeeGo could just use the Fedora repos, and the MeeGo repo could contain only MeeGo-specific stuff (eg. MeeGo-optimized kernel or whatever)22:14
Venemo:)22:14
npmmeego 1.2 == fedora 1422:14
npm=~=22:14
lcuknpm, my ideapas has run netbook build from when I got it22:14
VenemoF14 will be EOL very soon22:14
lcukand apart from very minor solvable bugs22:14
npmthat's exactly what i do. i just do "zypper in <fedorapackage>"22:14
lcukit works22:14
npmwell then when meego 1.3 is stable, i'll probably update my meego-lem to fedora 15 or 1622:15
npmwhatever matches closest. it's an empirical process22:15
Venemo1622:15
VenemoF16 is already alpha22:15
Venemo:)22:15
VenemoI think MeeGo could more openly base itself on Fedora22:16
Venemothis could save costs for Intel22:16
npmagreed totally22:16
wmaronecan you replace yum with zypper?22:16
npmintel should just buy redhat and be done with it :-)22:16
Venemolol22:16
npmwmarone: I do all the time22:16
StskeepsVenemo: after removing cruft from meego source packages that obviously appeared in fedora, i'm not sure i agree22:16
berndhsreplacing yum with zypper on fedora would be nice, yum can be awfully slow22:16
Stskeeps:P22:16
npmzypper just uses rpmformat repos22:17
npmi just set the fedora ones at a lower priority so that lowlevel libs dont' end up coming from fedora22:17
npmaka meego gets priority=122:17
VenemoIntel should (have) outsource(d) the development of MeeGo to Red Hat, at least the parts common with Fedora.22:17
npmfedoragets priority=10022:17
npmdefault is priority 9922:17
Venemomhm22:17
Venemonpm, does RPM Fusion also work on MeeGo?22:17
npmof course as does planet ccrma22:18
npmsee http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem22:18
npmnow you can screw yourself royally if you don't know what you're dong22:18
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Venemohaha22:18
npmi was going to talk about it at the meego conf but nobody wanted me to talk about it22:18
Venemohaha22:19
Stskeepswell, you did talk a fair bit about it at the netbook bof22:19
npmsince it's a $0.00 "app store"22:19
Stskeeps:P22:19
VenemoI want RPM Fusion for 'yum install gstreamer-* --exclude *-docs *-dev'22:19
npmi did that22:19
Venemonot sure about the zypp equivalent22:19
npmnow mind you i acknowledge it's a total hack in the truest sense of the word22:20
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npmand to which i reply . who cares22:20
npmi'm not running a hospital on this or sending people to the moon. i'm just trying to make my netbook/tablet useful22:20
npmbut a more official collaboration and non-duplication of effort between meego and rpmfusion makes a lot of sense22:21
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npmbasically someone should donate some money so they start ARM builds22:21
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Venemonpm, yeah, I agree :)22:21
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Venemonpm, although most of that stuff isn't really worth an ARM build... as most of those codecs can't use GPU acceleration22:22
Venemosome of them can with vdpau22:22
npmand figure out some kind of baselevel package compatibility so that meego doesn't end up wasting all sorts of time pulling random patches from some random upstream when someone else did that already22:22
Venemobut that's not really a chice on ARM either22:22
Venemonpm, agreed!22:22
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npmi was talking about an ARM build just so that i could do "meego-lem" on harmattan or meego handset22:23
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Venemomhm22:23
npmthat way i don't have to compile emacs for my n950 by myself :-)22:23
VenemoFedora has (or had?) an ARM build22:23
Venemonot sure if it's ARMv7, neither sure if it's up to date22:24
npmseemed old last i looked22:24
Venemohttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM yeah22:24
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Venemoold :(22:24
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Stskeepsfedora has armv7 hardfp underway22:24
npmand i bet from the business end of things i bet fedora and redhat would love to be able to branch into ARM like canonical22:25
VenemoI think Red Hat and Intel should get together.22:25
npmStskeeps: that's very interesting.22:25
npmVenemo: agree. It could be a very complementary operation. the issue is that redhat may want to be seen as processor independent. for example wouldn't MIPS people find it chilling?22:26
npmor AMD22:26
wmaronenpm: ask anyone who's tried to run MeeGo on a Brazos chip ;)22:27
Venemonpm, I understand, but still, it would save costs for both companies22:27
npmHowever, Redhat might make a better MeeGo partner for Intel than nokia22:27
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wmaronesomeone actually turning out worthwhile hardware would be a better partner22:28
Venemonpm, Red Hat is a LOT better in community management22:28
Venemonpm, they could benefit MeeGo a LOT and a LOT in that front.22:28
npmyes. that is their strength as an open source company. harnessing the power of open source, not the hype.22:29
Venemoindeed!22:29
Venemoexactly why they'd be the best possible choice.22:29
npmcompare how well they do it to "wikimedia foundation" for example. where wikipedia is totally out of control and not a very trustable resource for certain subjects22:30
Venemohm, not sure.22:30
Venemohow well do they do?22:30
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npmwell i can regularly find total bs on wikipedia or see one-sided editing .. but my fedora and rpmfusion packages are pretty trustworthy and the patches and changes seem to be seen by "many eyes"22:32
npm(i've been running fedora since it was called "redhat 1.0" so i'm a little partial to this distro)22:33
* CosmoHill overheats his laptop with the cleaver use of google maps22:33
npmsomewhere i still have the little book and CD .... maybe i'll be on antiques roadshow with it in the future :-)22:34
Venemonpm :)22:35
npmalong with my SGI Indy :-(22:36
Venemonaw, I need to leave now22:37
Venemowill be back later22:37
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npmDownload (curl) error for 'http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/14/Everything/i386/os/repodata/78e652b0446dbfe807aa9bcbf431a847c5d7e14205d7de8fbfe9981fc534a3ac-prestodelta.xml.gz':22:37
npmthat's the only problem w/ fedora ... i have to retry that repo when doing refreshes22:38
npmthrough zypper22:38
npmBuilding repository 'RPM Fusion for Fedora 14 - Nonfree - Updates' cache [done]22:38
npmRetrieving repository 'Fedora 14 - i386 - Updates' metadata [done]22:38
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npm:-)22:38
npmypper se gstreamer- | wc -l --> 4122:39
npmtry that on regular meego22:39
npm:-)22:39
npmVenemo: it may not be advisable to install all gstreamer* from fedora as youend up w/ stuff like gstreamer-plugins-espeak22:40
wmaroneyou know you want your phone talking to you22:41
npmi've been talking to my phone too: /home/developer/voicetogoog_0076 Accuracy: 64% Text: `google truck for moving again missouri law on a problem last time is your stomach text slow down bridge sure we need to have lunch boxes down and click songs torrent clips panda I will keep on talking about the weekend so very hard to stop for food stamps see what happens when it's done will keep on talking all the way up to go through the second'22:42
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npmit's like talking to charlie sheen, esp. when i have it read the text back22:42
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npmwill publish .deb and .rpm one of these days22:43
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npm /home/developer/testclip_0014 Accuracy: 83% Text: `this is the last test evening because I'm getting very tired and probly go to sleep but nonetheless it's very interesting to your house google translate my talking into text in my program thank you'22:45
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npmsometimes it's quite entertaining: /home/developer/voicetogoog_0001 Accuracy: 78% Text: `hello this is a test of voice recording on a new day a new subject tender person and you didn't wanna wake him not sleepy waterworks last night'22:46
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