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| lcuk | stskeepsie, good book :) | 00:44 |
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| gabrbedd | lbt: thanks! | 01:18 |
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| lbt | :) | 01:38 |
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| zx2c4 | so whats going on with the community edition and the N950? Im surprised it hasnt been ported yet... | 01:45 |
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| lcuk | zx2c4, the n950 is included in the weekly -ce builds | 01:47 |
| lcuk | and from what i hear it does work, however still pending on a few bits to allow flashing etc | 01:48 |
| zx2c4 | lcuk: how do I get it going? that wiki page must be pretty outta date... | 01:51 |
| berndhs | yes that's my understanding, the n950 builds work except you can't install them, unless you are special person with access to a boot loader | 01:52 |
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| zx2c4 | berndhs: why do only special people have access to a boot loader? thats a little odd | 01:53 |
| zx2c4 | so the builds work but i cant install them? so you mean i have to run it in a chroot or what? | 01:53 |
| berndhs | zx2c4: its not released by Nokia, leagal stuff | 01:53 |
| zx2c4 | well thats a bit odd | 01:54 |
| zx2c4 | they release this as a dev device but | 01:54 |
| zx2c4 | lock down the bootloader? | 01:54 |
| zx2c4 | say what? | 01:54 |
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| berndhs | as far as i know, they are releasing the boot loader, but aren't done with the releasing | 01:55 |
| zx2c4 | My E52 got wet in the hurricane today (I'm in NYC...) so I'm now using the N950 as my primary phone until I can get a replacement | 01:55 |
| zx2c4 | so I'm trying to really get the cool going on this baby | 01:55 |
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| CosmoHill | night ngiht | 03:17 |
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| bcue | Hi Guys! | 04:45 |
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| iekku | morning | 06:37 |
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| stskeepsie | morn Alison_Chaiken | 08:05 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Huomenta, stskeepsie. I'm pleased to say I'm starting a new gig working on MEEGO on 9/12. | 08:05 |
| stskeepsie | yes, i think you told :) | 08:06 |
| stskeepsie | glad to hear you're having meego-related work | 08:06 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Unfortunately I'm giving a talk about meego on 9/7 with an advertised demo which isn't ahem, quite working. | 08:06 |
| stskeepsie | what kind of demo? anything i could hint with? | 08:06 |
| Alison_Chaiken | There's a fair amount of meego work around if you ask. A lot of small companies are interested in meego but don't advertise work that way. For some reason, Boston area has a lot right now. | 08:07 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | stskeepsie, there are some problems with the atom repos that Joel C. of Intel and I are intently discussing. He can hear me curse the people who wrote some of those update scripts 400 miles away up in Oregon. | 08:08 |
| stskeepsie | i'm personally working a bit on a practical/code proposal for meego 2.0 where some of us are thinking to spin into a community research-project where we actually implement proper vendor-project relations, open governance, a minimal portable meego core less focused on binary compliance, more on html5/qml, etc.. | 08:08 |
| stskeepsie | yeah, repos in 1.3 are really broken at the moment | 08:08 |
| Alison_Chaiken | There's one script with a bash switch-case clause. The default, fall-through case updates the drivers, even when "lspci" returns "not found." | 08:09 |
| stskeepsie | :nod: | 08:09 |
| Alison_Chaiken | I'll be curious to see your proposal when it's ready. Too bad we won't be having another big MeeGoCon soon to talk about these issues. | 08:10 |
| stskeepsie | i already have a meego-derived core that builds Qt in 233 source packages | 08:10 |
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| stskeepsie | but yeah | 08:10 |
| Alison_Chaiken | I'd love to attend ELC Europe, but it looks unlikely at this point, as Automotive Linux Summit is going to be in Taiwan, IIRC. | 08:10 |
| stskeepsie | (trying to do prototypes first, as well as talking, gives better results) | 08:10 |
| stskeepsie | (meego is 1400 source packages) | 08:11 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Your advice is sound. Back to demo cave! | 08:12 |
| stskeepsie | have fun, feel free to poke me if you have any questions :) | 08:13 |
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| ali1234 | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/content.php | 09:32 |
| ali1234 | "a database table containing developer forum members' email addresses has been accessed, by exploiting a vulnerability in the bulletin board software that allowed an SQL Injection attack" | 09:32 |
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| lcuk | wazd, ping - regarding meecast | 11:48 |
| lcuk | is it available anywhere | 11:48 |
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| lcuk | would be an idea to try it on the -ce | 11:48 |
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| lcuk | cool kde fridge unit http://blogs.kde.org/node/4474 | 12:21 |
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| lcuk | slaine, I took a peek at yocto based on your tweet over the weekend | 12:33 |
| lcuk | their governance structure seems quite sensible | 12:33 |
| slaine | Yeah, it's a nice project, one I've been meaning to take a closer look at | 12:33 |
| lcuk | slaine, well I tried to and filed a bug with them about linkage | 12:34 |
| lcuk | their project charter was mislinked on the site | 12:34 |
| lcuk | so nobody could read it | 12:34 |
| lcuk | which seems quite amusing really | 12:34 |
| slaine | Their documentation is quite good, surprised by that one. | 12:34 |
| lcuk | it is based on oe/poky I believe | 12:34 |
| slaine | nod | 12:35 |
| slaine | which in turn where based on debian | 12:35 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, what did you think when you had a look? | 12:35 |
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| slaine | His reply was that it was more for embedded targets | 12:35 |
| slaine | but I'd argue that | 12:35 |
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| * lcuk got a mail this morning from somebody looking for STD/embedded senior developer nearby | 12:36 | |
| lcuk | STB | 12:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | hehe. | 12:43 |
| arfoll | slaine, what is the advantage over something like OBS light? | 12:43 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: IVI ! | 12:43 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Liqvr | 12:44 |
| slaine | OBS light ? | 12:44 |
| arfoll | slaine, http://wiki.meego.com/OBS_Light | 12:44 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, find me a way to be supported in activities and I will focus liq* on it :) | 12:44 |
| lcuk | as for now, my focus is n900-ce | 12:45 |
| lcuk | and trying to see what could be achieved with it for a 1.4 timeframe | 12:45 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.meego.com/Roadmap1.4 | 12:45 |
| slaine | arfoll: ah yes, I remember Dominique arguing for it. Is there something usable ? Thought it was just a concept | 12:45 |
| lcuk | ahh concepts | 12:46 |
| lcuk | bringing them to production is tough! | 12:46 |
| arfoll | slaine, well from what i heard it was coming along well you can check git | 12:46 |
| arfoll | although since devs are french I guess there was an august pause ;-) | 12:47 |
| slaine | :) | 12:47 |
| arfoll | yocto looks cool though, i might try the tutorial | 12:48 |
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| lcuk | arfoll, what are you using meego for? | 13:22 |
| arfoll | lcuk, what do you mean? | 13:27 |
| arfoll | i use it as an OS like everyone else no? | 13:27 |
| lcuk | yes which ux devices etc? | 13:27 |
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| arfoll | oh uhm, lots. churchill/tv cubovision/tv trimslice/tv exopc/tablet n900/ce s10/netbook | 13:29 |
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| lcuk | nice | 13:30 |
| lcuk | arfoll, where does the tv working group work? | 13:31 |
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| arfoll | lcuk, in the -tv ML? | 13:31 |
| arfoll | lcuk, read this about WG http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-tv/2011-August/000094.html | 13:32 |
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| lcuk | arfoll, yeah | 13:43 |
| lcuk | i wonder where the pure qt build of a ux is | 13:43 |
| lcuk | since it is using xbmc for now | 13:43 |
| arfoll | well there isn't one for now | 13:43 |
| arfoll | the current proposal is to use qtmediahub to replace it, but i'm not sure where that's going | 13:43 |
| arfoll | anyways whats wrong with XBMC? | 13:44 |
| lcuk | arfoll, nothing, just whenever *technology that is not qt mentioned around | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | except xbmc -is- qt, isnt it? | 13:46 |
| arfoll | lcuk, so the 'not from here' syndrome? ;-) | 13:47 |
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| arfoll | Stskeeps, 'course it is | 13:48 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, I knew it was c++ | 13:48 |
| lcuk | wasn't sure on the qt side | 13:48 |
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| lcuk | google gets kind of muddled because of the QT media format | 13:49 |
| arfoll | lcuk, i think it was a joke | 13:49 |
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| PCChris | Hello, I built the latest meego-qemu from the qemu-maemo git repo, and I'm trying to use it to emulate a BeagleBoard-xM Rev. B. I am using the latest kernel sources from git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/tmlind/linux-omap-2.6.git to build my uImage. However, when I run it gets past uncompressing kernel and then qemu segfaults....dbg revealed that the problem is in the omap2_gpio_module_readp function in omap_gpio.c Does | 13:56 |
| PCChris | anybody know anything about this issue? | 13:56 |
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| ScriptRipper | Stskeeps, ARM SoftFP is -mfpu=vfpv3 -mfloat-abi=softfp which means -mfpu=vfpv3-d32 ? | 14:29 |
| ScriptRipper | or better was ? | 14:29 |
| Stskeeps | riht | 14:29 |
| Stskeeps | right | 14:29 |
| Stskeeps | you will want to get rid of mtune=cortex-a8 | 14:30 |
| Stskeeps | it sometimes generates NEON instructions | 14:30 |
| ScriptRipper | and that makes problems on several ARM processors, which can only do -mfpu=vfpv3-d16 ? | 14:30 |
| ScriptRipper | or is the neon opt the problem ? | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | nah, d32 is a bigger problem | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | i propose -mfpu=vfpv3-d16 -mfloat-abi=softfp -mno-thumb | 14:31 |
| ScriptRipper | do you remember why that was used ? | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | which, mfpu=vfpv3? | 14:32 |
| ScriptRipper | yes | 14:32 |
| ScriptRipper | d32 with softfp | 14:32 |
| ScriptRipper | is that usual ? | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | a mistake, to be honest, that vfpv3-d32 was == vfpv3 was not thought through | 14:33 |
| ScriptRipper | ok | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | that's why we changed to -d16 in hardfp | 14:33 |
| ScriptRipper | understood | 14:33 |
| ScriptRipper | -d16 means what ? why can that be an issue on softfp ? | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | means 16 FPU registers | 14:34 |
| ScriptRipper | but they are only emulated | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | no | 14:34 |
| ScriptRipper | so how can it not run on some ARMv7 chips | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | you're thinking of float-abi=soft | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | softfp vs soft :) | 14:35 |
| ScriptRipper | ? | 14:35 |
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| Stskeeps | mfpu=vfp implies there is a real chip, the vfp | 14:35 |
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| ScriptRipper | so -mfloat-abi=softfp means param passing, but real vfp | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | right | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | and =hard means param passing in FPU registers | 14:36 |
| ScriptRipper | but why did the introduce softfp for ARM at all ? | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | compatibility reasons | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | you can mix armv5 file systems with optimized vfp binaries with softfp | 14:37 |
| ScriptRipper | and armv5 is real float emul | 14:37 |
| ScriptRipper | without FPU ? | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | right, but armv6+vfp has a vfp | 14:37 |
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| slaine | what a mess | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | a tad yes | 14:40 |
| slaine | and a lot of the above knowledge had to be learned he hard way no doubt | 14:40 |
| ScriptRipper | Stskeeps, has MeeGo Trunk been rebuild now with your accelerator changes completely ? | 14:48 |
| ScriptRipper | I have the feeling something went wrong | 14:48 |
| Stskeeps | no, still staging | 14:49 |
| Stskeeps | i have like 7 patches in queue waiting for acceptance | 14:49 |
| ScriptRipper | because some builds got very slow here | 14:49 |
| ScriptRipper | can there still be a problem of the install order | 14:49 |
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| lcuk | awesome! | 15:22 |
| lcuk | http://www.umpcportal.com/2011/08/kupa-x11-offers-54wh-capacity-dual-mode-tablet-in-under-1kg/ | 15:22 |
| lcuk | an Intel oaktrail with dual format screen :D | 15:22 |
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| dm8tbr | the name aside the screen shot looks very windows-ish | 15:24 |
| lcuk | it does dm8tbr | 15:25 |
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| lcuk | that is better than it showing android in a way :) | 15:25 |
| dm8tbr | and there I was hoping for a meego tablet product | 15:25 |
| lcuk | since it would be feasible to put a meego build on it | 15:25 |
| lcuk | well me too | 15:25 |
| lcuk | i want to produce set of professional pen apps | 15:25 |
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| dm8tbr | ah, yes that screen fits your bill then | 15:26 |
| lcuk | and finding a good source of intel devices is important | 15:26 |
| lcuk | the lenovo one we found recently runs tegra2 | 15:26 |
| lcuk | having atom would allow better meego compatability hopefully | 15:26 |
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| lcuk | and then can perhaps build some real shining products for 1.4 front end with a focus on pen drawing input and content creation | 15:27 |
| dm8tbr | yeah, the think tablet thing looked very sexy to me, but the T2 is a turn off | 15:27 |
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| lcuk | dm8tbr, having a more personalised front end and less focus on content consumption would allow the tablets to be used creatively | 15:28 |
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| dm8tbr | yepp | 15:29 |
| dm8tbr | I should get me one of those pen things for capacitive screens and try if I can make notes on the exopc. finger doesn't work for sure | 15:30 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, I have only been asking for this kind of hardware for last 2 years | 15:30 |
| dm8tbr | lcuk: your stuff runs on exo? | 15:30 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, fingers work if you use chalkboard writing style | 15:30 |
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| lcuk | should do but packaging and stuff is all screwed mostly because of my skills | 15:31 |
| dm8tbr | the exopc isn't the size of a black board ;) | 15:31 |
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| lcuk | dm8tbr, http://liqbase.net/a/20101123_003.jpg | 15:32 |
| lcuk | the exopc is same size as my ideapad isn't it? | 15:32 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/a/20110610_002.jpg | 15:32 |
| lcuk | I am trying to roadmap a potential -CE 1.4 build | 15:33 |
| dm8tbr | wwwwaaaay tooo large :( | 15:34 |
| lcuk | i am hoping that along the way we manage to create some great apps | 15:34 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, what do you mean way too large? | 15:34 |
| dm8tbr | I was wondering if I could manage to write on the exopc like on paper | 15:35 |
| lcuk | dm8tbr, ahh | 15:35 |
| dm8tbr | half a sentence per screen is not exactly my target :) | 15:35 |
| lcuk | the first big device I ever wrote on was my x41 | 15:35 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/a/liqbase_big.JPG | 15:35 |
| lcuk | and that had great writability | 15:35 |
| lcuk | the pens on these dualmode devices are similar | 15:35 |
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| dm8tbr | yeah I always wanted to get me one of these X..s | 15:36 |
| lcuk | yeah i had that one for about 2 days before it broke then couldn't afford another one | 15:36 |
| dm8tbr | :((( | 15:36 |
| lcuk | which is a shame, but at least I know the principle works | 15:36 |
| lcuk | and have been aiming towards that ever since | 15:37 |
| * lcuk still has those notes taken on the x41 :) | 15:37 | |
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| lcuk | dm8tbr, the calendar works nicely with just a few words on the screen | 15:40 |
| lcuk | since that is all you ever get on a real one anyway :) | 15:41 |
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| lcuk | one of my mates was playtesting writing on his iphone :) | 15:41 |
| dm8tbr | yeah | 15:42 |
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| TimmyT | anyone here installed meego on Lenovo S10-3? | 17:28 |
| thiago | yes | 17:29 |
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| Chaz6 | Me too | 17:29 |
| TimmyT | you don't have any problem with suspend/resume ? | 17:30 |
| Chaz6 | Not yet :) | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | TimmyT: on occasion | 17:30 |
| TimmyT | on occasion? | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | ie, it gives me problems occasionally | 17:30 |
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| dlaflamm | what is the expected battery life on an exopc tablet running one of the current meego releases? i have one and haven't measured the battery life scientifically, but ancedotally it seems too short... | 17:32 |
| TimmyT | i've a very funny/anoying problem here, i have this problem with all of the distros except debian 6, even debian 5 has this problem, dunnu wat to do. it really anoys me b cuz i always suspend my nebook and i never turn it off | 17:32 |
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| TimmyT | i love meego, it's really cute, but this problem is really anoying, (though i tried to install it on my n900 but it has nothin.) | 17:33 |
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| Stskeeps | meego's a platform :P | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | if you want some product like thing, get stuff like linpus'es | 17:34 |
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| TimmyT | i liked to know if it's just my problem or other ppl running linux have seen this problem | 17:37 |
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| TimmyT | anyway, i've installed meego handset 1.1 on my n900. is it the right version that i've installed on my device? any newer version i can use? | 17:41 |
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| Stskeeps | TimmyT: wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | grab summer release | 17:48 |
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| TimmyT | Stskeeps: this one: mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-stable-1.2.0.90.6.20110630.4.DE.2011-07-01.1-mmcblk0p | 17:54 |
| TimmyT | ? | 17:54 |
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| Stskeeps | for instance | 17:54 |
| TimmyT | i've installed this but it was the community edition, right? | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | and probably closest thing you get to a open product on there | 17:55 |
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| TimmyT | Stskeeps: it was not look like the pictures i'd seen before. | 17:56 |
| TimmyT | i mean it was not look like meego | 17:57 |
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| njozwiak | hi all- I am having an issue with the MeeGo repos. I have MeeGo Tablet running from the latest build found at http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/stable/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1/images/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail/. I am trying to configuring debugging so I need to install openssh-server. | 18:41 |
| njozwiak | I execute: zypper install openssh-server as root | 18:41 |
| njozwiak | and get the following error: | 18:41 |
| njozwiak | Error building the cache: | 18:41 |
| njozwiak | [|] Repository can't be determined. Warning: Disabling repository '1.2-non-ss' because of the above error. | 18:42 |
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| njozwiak | Download (curl) error for 'http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1/repos/oss/ia32/packages/repodata/respomd.xml' | 18:42 |
| njozwiak | So I browsed to: download.meego.com/snapshots | 18:43 |
| njozwiak | and the 1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1 repository does not exist | 18:43 |
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| dm8tbr | may, hmm that's old | 18:47 |
| dm8tbr | but back then it should have been 1.2.0.80 | 18:47 |
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| njozwiak | yes, but it was the last build for the Tablet image | 18:53 |
| njozwiak | is there a way to automatically update the repository info? | 18:54 |
| njozwiak | I manually modified the configuration files in repos.d/ | 18:54 |
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| njozwiak | from 1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1 to latest-1.2 | 18:54 |
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| njozwiak | but when I tried to reinstall it popped up a message: | 18:55 |
| njozwiak | File 'repomd.xml' fro repository '1.2-non-oss' is unsigned, continue? [yes/no] | 18:56 |
| njozwiak | I selected yess, and now it just times out attempting to access some repo data | 18:56 |
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| dm8tbr | check zypper options | 18:57 |
| dm8tbr | 'zypper ar' might do that | 18:57 |
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| wald0 | i have just received my wetab, the OS looks pretty but it can be better, some number of minor bugs are found, it is "meego" better than the default wetab OS ? | 19:06 |
| wald0 | i mean, in order to use meego instead of the original one | 19:06 |
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| dm8tbr | wald0: the wetab OS is the most feature complete at the moment AFAICT. if you are curious there are tips on how to establish e.g. a dual-boot setup | 19:09 |
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| dlaflamm | wald0: I believe the wetab os is meego, but an older version of meego than you can get if you install the tablet image from intel. the biggest difference is the user experience (UX). The wetab UX is much more usable in my opinion. | 20:02 |
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| lbt | Jaffa: ping | 20:43 |
| njozwiak | anyone familiar with this build error in Qt? | 20:45 |
| njozwiak | Package created. | Connecting to device... | Error while building project HelloWorld2 (target: MeeGo) | When executing build step 'Deploy to MeeGo device' | 20:45 |
| thiago | is that the MeeGo SDK or the one from Nokia? | 20:45 |
| njozwiak | MeeGo SDK | 20:45 |
| thiago | does it say what the error was when building? | 20:46 |
| njozwiak | that is the details | 20:46 |
| njozwiak | I was just trying to follow the debug setup documentation | 20:46 |
| njozwiak | http://developer.meego.com/guides/debugging-meego-applications | 20:46 |
| njozwiak | it is interesting that the doc says to set Qt version to "meego-tablet-ia32-1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1" for ExoPC | 20:47 |
| njozwiak | but that isn't an option | 20:47 |
| berndhs | njozwiak: it could say that for many reasons, for example if it can't talk to the device | 20:47 |
| njozwiak | I fully installed the MeeGo SDK | 20:47 |
| njozwiak | I added the device under MeeGo device configuration | 20:48 |
| njozwiak | and tested it and it works | 20:48 |
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| njozwiak | how do I select a specific device to build to? | 20:49 |
| berndhs | i've seen it say that when the device has lost network connection | 20:49 |
| njozwiak | device is still online | 20:50 |
| njozwiak | reverified | 20:50 |
| njozwiak | got it | 20:52 |
| njozwiak | I had to delete the MeeGo Emulator device | 20:52 |
| njozwiak | it kept defaulting to it | 20:52 |
| njozwiak | not sure why. | 20:52 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: pong | 21:14 |
| lbt | hey ... just felt annoyed at this https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22699 | 21:14 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 22699 nor, Undecided, ---, shuang.wan, NEW, Please add pohly to "IT Private" bugs | 21:14 |
| lbt | so thought I'd share (and agitate) | 21:14 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: <sigh/> | 21:21 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Who do you escalate to to make a final decision though? | 21:21 |
| lbt | I dunno... | 21:22 |
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| lbt | Why does mrshaver have some decision making rights though? | 21:22 |
| annma | hi people, I have a WeTab and I installed Meego besides WetabOS and now I have the Meego boot loader and I wonder how to boot into Wetab OS | 21:22 |
| pebcak | it's both extlinuy | 21:23 |
| pebcak | sind wetabos actually is meego | 21:23 |
| Jaffa | lbt: No idea; it's pretty clear the governance and decision making of MeeGo has transitioned from non-functional to plain disintegrated. | 21:23 |
| annma | pebcak: yes I know that | 21:24 |
| pebcak | °since | 21:24 |
| Jaffa | lbt: I presume you saw http://www.mwkn.net/2011/35/devel.html#devel-3 | 21:24 |
| annma | pebcak: my question is what to add to Meego extlinux.conf file to get Wetab to boot | 21:24 |
| annma | what I call Meego is pinetrail with plasma | 21:24 |
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| lbt | Jaffa: yeah.... OTOH I found http://www.oscon.com/oscon2010/public/schedule/speaker/94692 and http://events.linuxfoundation.org/2010/linuxcon-brazil/saxena | 21:25 |
| pebcak | annma since I do not know how you partitioned and installed I can not tell you what to write into your extlinux.conf | 21:25 |
| lbt | "He leads the MeeGo Architecture effort" ... last july | 21:25 |
| lbt | so I saw that as "Arjan's manager in Intel" | 21:26 |
| Jaffa | lbt: O...K... | 21:26 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Yeah, makes sense | 21:26 |
| annma | I kept Wetab and / is /dev/sda3 | 21:26 |
| annma | Meego / is /dev/sda5 | 21:26 |
| lbt | I was *much* more interested in the "components not up to scratch" coment.... | 21:26 |
| lbt | Qt? | 21:26 |
| Jaffa | lbt: ? | 21:27 |
| annma | pebcak: no doc about this? I found dual meego + win7 and such but nothing really informatine | 21:28 |
| annma | informative | 21:28 |
| lbt | "A number of components did not mature enough to remain as part of MeeGo 1.2 required packages and delayed to MeeGo 1.3." | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: timed, as an example | 21:29 |
| lbt | http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon/saxena | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: arjan spoke of this/sakari at some point | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | it makes sense when you know what they're talking about, so | 21:29 |
| * lbt bows to domain knowledge | 21:29 | |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. | 21:29 |
| * Stskeeps has a lot of tacit knowledge | 21:29 | |
| lbt | I'm just expecting things to go titsup | 21:30 |
| lbt | after all, I'm having a good time ;) | 21:30 |
| pebcak | annma where is your boot? | 21:31 |
| pebcak | /boot | 21:31 |
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| pebcak | annma I'll give you mine but you have to adept it | 21:32 |
| annma | /dev/sda6 | 21:32 |
| annma | great pebcak | 21:32 |
| pebcak | my /boot for wetabos, meego and android is the same | 21:32 |
| annma | that would be awesome | 21:32 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: in the light of this bug I've just seen I'm not sure if I should longer uphold my offer to run an irc bot on MeeGo IT infrastructure | 21:33 |
| annma | I have 2 /boot which might be an error | 21:33 |
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| ab | http://www.linux.com/news/galleries/20th-anniversary-of-linux-gallery-tour/ti-donated-devices | 21:34 |
| ab | n900 prototype there :) | 21:34 |
| Stskeeps | heh :) | 21:34 |
| lbt | dm8tbr: feel free to join in | 21:35 |
| lbt | dm8tbr: which bug though | 21:35 |
| lbt | ? | 21:35 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: the one that meego it is for those who are much more equal then others | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | so, guys, i need some inspiration for good social contracts/best practices guide for behaviour in a open source project | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | any URLs? | 21:35 |
| lbt | dm8tbr: 22699 ? | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | "as a maintainer i will uphold.." | 21:35 |
| annma | pebcak: my mail is annma@kde.org | 21:35 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: yes | 21:36 |
| pebcak | annma nah | 21:36 |
| pebcak | I'll pastebin it | 21:36 |
| annma | OK pebcak thanks a lot | 21:36 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: I don't feel comfortable with a closed circle where I'm excluded from possibly important information | 21:36 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: I prefer to run my irc bot on my own hardware then, there I know things at least | 21:37 |
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| lbt | dm8tbr: you're either part of the solution or part of the problem :) | 21:37 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: and after all it seems RE/IT are both not about transparency, else I wouldn't be running a icinga with public status updates on my hardware... | 21:38 |
| lbt | now get of your ass and rise up with me... | 21:38 |
| lbt | in the words of Mr MLK .... "I have a dream" (all rights reserved) | 21:39 |
| pebcak | annma http://pastebin.com/0a7BFuSF | 21:39 |
| timoph | plasma active running on top of n900 CE -> http://timoph.fi/active/ | 21:39 |
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| timoph | Jaffa: looking for news? :) ^ | 21:40 |
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| Jaffa | timoph: Stick a nice webpage somewhere/blog post/thingy ;-p | 21:40 |
| annma | pebcak: this is what I have minus Android but I ket the /boot partition from Wetab in /dev/sda1 | 21:40 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: sorry, but I fail to even understand where I should prod this. There is too much between-the-lines and those-who-have-to-already-know. | 21:41 |
| annma | ket/kept | 21:41 |
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| lbt | dm8tbr: in this case I think there is no "between the lines" | 21:41 |
| pebcak | where is your extlinux.conf? | 21:41 |
| pebcak | most likely on /dev/sda5 | 21:42 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: 10min ago I didn't even know there was an 'MeeGo IT Private' | 21:42 |
| pebcak | mostlikely can't find the kernel | 21:42 |
| lbt | dm8tbr: sure ... I barely know there's an #meego-art | 21:42 |
| lbt | however dm8tbr... I *did* explain it here: http://wiki.meego.com/Web_infrastructure/Policy#Shell_Access | 21:43 |
| timoph | Jaffa: I'll write something tomorrow | 21:43 |
| Jaffa | timoph: ta | 21:43 |
| lbt | and, for good measure: http://wiki.meego.com/Meego_IT#Contact_points | 21:43 |
| lbt | oops first link shoulda been http://wiki.meego.com/Web_infrastructure/Policy#Bugs | 21:44 |
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| dm8tbr | lbt: that makes sense, that page didn't tell me anything about bugs, but it was interesting | 21:47 |
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| lbt | last para: The MeeGo IT team have 2 bug products: MeeGo IT Private and MeeGo IT. We use the private one for bugs which discuss secure or confidential information; sometimes we'll make a public bug private or a private bug public. The criteria are not well defined but in general we don't discuss specifics of our installation in public. Whilst we do not operate "security through obscurity", nor do we claim to be infallible - limiting information | 21:47 |
| lbt | means that when we make errors, the information is less likely to leak and the window that we have to rectify the error without discovery should be larger. | 21:47 |
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| dm8tbr | yes, well hidden at the bottom | 21:48 |
| dm8tbr | took me the second link to notice | 21:48 |
| lbt | IMHO it's not important to most people - just nuts like you and me :) | 21:49 |
| berndhs | lbt: perhaps security related problems and trade secret security should not be in the same bucket | 21:50 |
| lbt | agreed | 21:50 |
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| dm8tbr | lbt: I can't comment on this, sorry. I tried to write something, but I can't put myself behind a statement when the starting point is 'we don't trust our own' and I won't write an essay as to how I perceive this, that would just be the wrong place | 21:57 |
| lbt | dm8tbr: in that case talk to Jaffa | 21:58 |
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| lbt | we need your input... I need to show that we have support to object to this crap | 21:58 |
| lbt | if you are silent you accede | 21:58 |
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| lbt | and I object to "the starting point is 'we don't trust our own' " :) | 21:59 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: I've been yelling at RE for weeks and there at least I had direct reason, here I'm not impacted by this as I don't have an account. | 22:00 |
| lbt | comment #1 is mine and is clear about who we trust and how we measure that trust | 22:00 |
| lbt | dm8tbr: you should have an account on ircbot | 22:00 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: there seem to be people on the bug that disagree with you | 22:00 |
| berndhs | i would have objections to trusting someone with network/system security because they are trusted with trade secrets | 22:00 |
| lbt | that's just me being busy | 22:00 |
| lbt | dm8tbr: yes | 22:00 |
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| lbt | dm8tbr: the people who disagree are mainly from Intel | 22:00 |
| lbt | Stezz is just annoyed that I'm being pedantic and tilting at windmills again | 22:01 |
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| dm8tbr | lbt: who's this shaver and where is he in meego? (I still miss a clear organisation diagram!) | 22:02 |
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| dm8tbr | so he's admin on the webservers? | 22:03 |
| dm8tbr | anything else? | 22:03 |
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| lbt | no, part of the IT team, reports directly to Dawn | 22:05 |
| CosmoHill | my Intel GMA 4500 graphics card is great right up until the point I want to play games | 22:08 |
| Venemo_N950 | CosmoHill, yeah, just like any other Intel graphics card :( | 22:09 |
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| dm8tbr | lbt: so there is no head of IT? | 22:10 |
| CosmoHill | I created a steam acocunt, installed my game, installed my add on and then played a very fast, pixaleted slide show of my game | 22:11 |
| Venemo_N950 | mhm | 22:11 |
| lbt | stezz is kinda ... but he is nokia fulltime employee and Intel aren't keen since feb so ... politics | 22:11 |
| Venemo_N950 | Intel aren't keen? | 22:12 |
| Venemo_N950 | what will happen to MeeGo then? | 22:12 |
| lbt | Venemo_N950: good question | 22:12 |
| CosmoHill | aren't keen on having a nokia employee manage the servers? | 22:13 |
| lbt | if I was an external organisation considering MeeGo I'd look at the level of activity from Intel recently and ask questions about the risks facing me if I adopted MeeGo as a base for a product | 22:13 |
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| CosmoHill | you mean the possibility of having the rug pulled out from under your feet? | 22:14 |
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| lbt | The main reason I'd want them to ask is to demonstrate that the risk is fairly low | 22:15 |
| Venemo_N950 | meh, MeeGo's problem is lack of any products | 22:15 |
| lbt | Venemo_N950: cool. Glad that one is sorted then. | 22:15 |
| pebcak | Venemo_N950 nah,meego's main problem is, that you have to reassure people they don't invest into something you will drop soon | 22:19 |
| pebcak | I wouldn't produce a meego device at the moment | 22:20 |
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| Venemo_N950 | pebcak, what do you mean? | 22:22 |
| pebcak | if you're a vendor and want to sell your product what would be your goals? | 22:24 |
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| Venemo_N950 | if I were a vendor, my goal would be to make a lot of money | 22:25 |
| CosmoHill | my goal would to be not to go pop | 22:26 |
| CosmoHill | and then make a lot of money | 22:26 |
| Venemo_N950 | mhm | 22:27 |
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| pebcak | and to win customers who want to stay with your brand, you will lose a lot of sympathies if you bring a product which you can support for 6-12 months | 22:30 |
| lcuk | new netbook based products were announced and released v recently | 22:31 |
| lcuk | the from the reviews I think they are even running tablet edition on them | 22:33 |
| thiago | if I were a vendor and would be releasing a device, I'd either contact the partners, invest myself or use proven technology | 22:33 |
| thiago | depending on another company's whims is bad business decision | 22:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Unless your whims are more stupid. | 22:34 |
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| lcuk | thiago, speaking of proven tech, timoph has gotten plasma running on the -ce | 22:37 |
| thiago | cool | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually elop killed meego pre-rollout. Nobody is realy interested in developing for a product-line where the "-line" part is missing | 22:37 |
| thiago | DocScrutinizer: don't be so sure | 22:38 |
| thiago | Elop did damage, sure, but Nokia was hardly the only company making MeeGo products | 22:38 |
| thiago | there are several STBs and connected TVs coming with MeeGo | 22:38 |
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| thiago | there are still netbooks | 22:38 |
| lcuk | there are plenty of nice looking uxes too | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | orly? so who's the company that announced the next meego phone? | 22:38 |
| thiago | we're missing announced mobiles and tablets, though | 22:39 |
| lcuk | steelrat comes to mind | 22:39 |
| thiago | DocScrutinizer: I never said phone | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | so MEH | 22:39 |
| RST38h | Screw netbooks. | 22:39 |
| thiago | DocScrutinizer: but since MeeGo is more than phone... | 22:39 |
| ali1234 | is anyone running a pool on when the first meego compliant handset device gets released? | 22:39 |
| RST38h | They are dead. And the ones alive feel fine without Meego. | 22:39 |
| lcuk | ivi work is progressing nicely | 22:39 |
| RST38h | thiago: I think Doc has omitted an important clause to his interest in Meego | 22:40 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: 20 years, after time off for good behaviour. Though still with an ankle-tag. | 22:40 |
| RST38h | thiago: He is specifically interested in Meego on phones and tablets. | 22:40 |
| thiago | RST38h: he probably has | 22:40 |
| Venemo_N950 | well, cordiatab is at least coming | 22:41 |
| RST38h | i.e. 1) No netbook (where other Linux flavors do a better job) 2) No MeegoTV (not watching TV, like a lot of people here, I believe) 3) No automotive (driving cars, not using them to watch movies) | 22:41 |
| Venemo_N950 | it's too big for a phone, but at least has a cell modem | 22:41 |
| ali1234 | i watch TV, but i have mythtv for that | 22:41 |
| ali1234 | don't see the point in buying some locked down STB | 22:42 |
| RST38h | If there is no visible Meego expansion to tablets and/or mobiles, it is as good as dead for a lot of us. | 22:42 |
| RST38h | thiago: And, please, do not sneer at this statement. It is really important to understand. | 22:42 |
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| Venemo_N950 | I watch films on my laptop | 22:42 |
| Venemo_N950 | not watching tv ever | 22:42 |
| thiago | RST38h: I won't. I fully get it. | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: yes, indeed. Sorry for being fuzzy about it | 22:43 |
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| ali1234 | the only reason i would buy a computer that came with software already installed is because i had no other choice, as is the case with phones and tablets | 22:43 |
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| thiago | RST38h: but as someone working on it, I'll settle for owning the other markets for now. | 22:43 |
| RST38h | Also understand that due to corporate CEOs bent on collective suicide lately, we are gonna be stuck with Android pretty soon now | 22:43 |
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| thiago | RST38h: that's my fear. | 22:44 |
| RST38h | And Android is a platform driven by weird people with weirder intentions. | 22:44 |
| ali1234 | and no offense to the developers, but the only reason i am interested in seeing meego succeed is because i hope it will be easier to scrub it off and replace it with something better | 22:44 |
| Ans5i | i am not sure that Java-like will be the answer | 22:44 |
| RST38h | (it also feels like Symbian rewritten in Java to me) | 22:44 |
| Ans5i | yep | 22:45 |
| thiago | ali1234: by that definition, you expect something better to exist. | 22:45 |
| thiago | ali1234: why can't MeeGo be the best possible? | 22:45 |
| ali1234 | thiago: because there is no such thing as "the best possible" for all people, and if meego was designed to meet my requirements you'd sell about 4 units | 22:45 |
| thiago | ali1234: good point | 22:46 |
| thiago | :-) | 22:46 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, meego has potential to be a great os | 22:51 |
| ali1234 | no, meego has potential to be a mass-market os, that isn't the same thing | 22:55 |
| ali1234 | not for me anyway | 22:55 |
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| RST38h | There is UI and then there is base OS | 22:58 |
| RST38h | The base OS can be anything - Meego, Ubuntu, Debian, even FreeBSD | 22:58 |
| RST38h | It is the UI and adjacent frameworks that make things work | 22:59 |
| RST38h | I.e. development APIs + core UI + core app suite | 22:59 |
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| RST38h | The OS itself, as Android shows, can be shrunk to the core and a really small bunch of system libs and utils | 23:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and there's still one significant difference between an OS for tablets, TV, netbooks, whatnot, and an OS for a phone: standby time. I don't see meego targeting this in a particularly reasonable way | 23:03 |
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| ali1234 | standby is important for tablets too | 23:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, how? | 23:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | don't confuse standby time (which should be in the range of weeks for a [meego] phone) with active usage time, which nobody would expect more than 20h from a tablet. Who would expect his tablet to standby for 2 weeks? what's the definition of "standby" for a tablet after all? Realy sth like "keep SIP client logged in and responsive, over WLAN"? | 23:09 |
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| ali1234 | standby time for a tablet is exactly the same use case as for a phone | 23:10 |
| annma | OK pebcak thanks a lot | 23:11 |
| ali1234 | nobody expects more than 1.5 days from a smartphone standby either | 23:11 |
| ali1234 | if you need more than that you buy a feature phone, and probably 3 spare batteries | 23:12 |
| * dm8tbr has a pile of spares for his N950 and uses them | 23:13 | |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, openttd mentioned more often | 23:18 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: probably by me | 23:18 |
| lcuk | javis likes it too afaik | 23:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: sorry that's nonsense. I expect my smartphone to have a standby time of at very least 4 days, unless I *use* it | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: and this mindset is exactly what's wrong in whole meego wrt handset | 23:30 |
| ali1234 | the only smartphone that will even get close to that is a symbian one | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | developers don't even care about their kernel drivers hogging battery down to <24h by polling, while the hardware would support power economic IRQ driven mode. | 23:31 |
| thiago | I managed 100 hours on a harmattan prototype | 23:31 |
| ali1234 | i know | 23:31 |
| thiago | wifi off | 23:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: that's plain wrong. My N900 with maemo fremantle has a sufficiently long standby time | 23:32 |
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| ali1234 | you got qa week's standby on a N900? | 23:32 |
| thiago | with the wifi on, I think it survived for 2 days | 23:32 |
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| ali1234 | thiago: i'm sure they'll fix that by the time it is released | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | while N900 fremantle survives 5 days easily with WLAN on | 23:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: it's not fixable | 23:33 |
| ali1234 | "fix" | 23:33 |
| ali1234 | as in make it much worse, like they did with the C7 | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: there are basic system architecture decisions that need to take this requirement into account | 23:33 |
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| ali1234 | and i know it is not really fixable | 23:34 |
| thiago | my N900 with a new battery can't do 5 days | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | those decisions seem not to take care about this requirements, on meego | 23:34 |
| thiago | it's more or less the same time | 23:34 |
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| thiago | but the N950 and N9 have bigger batteries... | 23:34 |
| thiago | 0.5 mA on standby | 23:35 |
| CosmoHill | ~javis | 23:35 |
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| CosmoHill | ~seen javis | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | thiago: biger battery? not really, maybe like 15% bigger, yes | 23:35 |
| infobot | CosmoHill: i haven't seen 'javis' | 23:35 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, javispedro | 23:35 |
| CosmoHill | ~seen javispedro | 23:35 |
| infobot | javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 17h 33m 35s ago, saying: 'at least from sw it does have the option to allow for "hw frequency"/"0 Hz"'. | 23:35 |
| CosmoHill | thanks lcuk | 23:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thiago: maybe your N900 can't do 5 days standby because you got too many poorly written programs running that eat battery | 23:51 |
| thiago | DocScrutinizer: could be | 23:51 |
| thiago | not that I have anything but the stock stuff running... | 23:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thiago: if you're really interested in that, you should read what SpeedEvil and me acquired on power consumption data for fremantle: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption & http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management | 23:53 |
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| thiago | do you remember what the baseline power consumption is? | 23:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | depends on your def of "baseline" | 23:54 |
| thiago | wifi on, 2G, screen off | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | see the URLs above | 23:55 |
| thiago | 6 mA is the lowest number I see | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds bout right | 23:56 |
| thiago | that's higher than Harmattan on my proto N950 -- I got 4 mA with wifi off | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | then that's rather good | 23:57 |
| thiago | yup | 23:57 |
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| thiago | the battery meter application said that over 50% of the battery usage was due to the 2G radio | 23:57 |
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