IRC log of #meego for Saturday, 2011-08-20

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noviceam trying to Play H264 video on Intel board from QML player using QtMobility and libva , but am unable to play video , but if i try to play using native gstreamer(gst-launch- ....)  am able to do that  , please can one help me in resolving this issue ?00:16
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tazzso i have just installed meego 1.2.0.9 on my exopc. And i am looking for a place where i can rtfm on how to update/install new repos and use the installer in meego.00:18
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tazzcould someone be kind enough to link me?00:18
flailingmonkeynovice: I saw the same issue before00:19
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flailingmonkeynovice: i am not sure how QtMobility or perhaps QtMultimedia does it's thing with finding codecs00:20
noviceflailingmonkey : any clue to fix ?00:20
timakimaflailingmonkey: i'm not an expert anymore but i'd expect in the end it would use gstreamers decodebin for it...00:21
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noviceit uses playbin2 from gstreamer plugins and even gst-launch playbin2 uri=file:///..... also uses playbin200:21
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flailingmonkeyi had no problem with playing files using gst-launch playbin2, but the whole meego-apps-videos thing, i believe is a QML app like what you are talking about, didn't work00:28
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noviceflailingmonkey : sorry there was connection error , i couln't see any of ur replies00:34
noviceflailingmonkey : please can you copy again if you commented something ?00:35
flailingmonkeyhttp://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/latest.log.html00:35
flailingmonkeyfor logs :)00:35
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flailingmonkeyi didn't say much, but it is possible that you could search through the logs too for others with issue00:38
noviceflailingmonkey : :) Yeah even am able to play through gstreamer but , from QML am not able to play , also from gst logs am able to see frame buffers are moving , but where its playing no idea ?00:39
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noviceflailingmonkey : do you have any idea on colorkey value used when we use gstreamer to play video using VA00:50
flailingmonkeyi was just using staightup playbin2, without any other values >_>00:50
flailingmonkeywas testing out fluendo proprietary codecs00:50
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flailingmonkeyfirst time i paid for a pack of codecs... not very expensive00:51
flailingmonkeybut good stuff00:52
novicealso am able to play using "player" app comes with QtMobility , but when i use QML elements it cribs :)00:52
novicewell i believe in OpenSource component :) and they are the best .... :)00:54
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ali1234hmm you know i could be wrong but i have a feeling that the "improved" browser in symbian anna is the same one used on meego00:59
ali1234(and maemo)00:59
ali1234rendering engine that is01:00
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ali1234possibly the UI as well01:06
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ali1234it doesn't look like a symbian app any more, it looks like QML01:06
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npmso with all this orphaned hp hardware available on the market (and soon to be available at discounts at stores), what about putting meego on it?01:34
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CosmoHillholy shit: john prescott is hosting have I got news for you01:35
ali1234again?01:35
ali1234is it a repeat01:35
CosmoHillmight be a repeate01:35
ali1234he hosted it the day after the election01:35
CosmoHillfrom my point of view the elections are badly timed, same week as deadlines01:36
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CosmoHillali1234: year it's a repeat01:42
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CosmoHillhttp://www.phoronix.com/image-viewer.php?id=tyke_dual_monitor&image=tyke_stand_intro_lrg "now which keyboard was it for IRC"01:43
CosmoHillone desktop, 7 laptops / netbooks, 7 monitors and 6 keyboards01:44
CosmoHilland 2/3 of a pint01:44
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lbtjedix: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=713261  Bug #713261 does not exist02:11
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CosmoHillnight night03:03
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blauzahlyeah, does the meego community care about the HP tablet thing?03:14
pawlikhow does it relate?03:15
blauzahlyou tell me :)   ...does it matter?03:20
pawlikto me, almost not at all03:23
berndhsthe meego community isn't really keeping anybody out03:25
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pawlikcould a small company port meego to a phone and release that os for a fee?03:37
pawlikthat would be normal GPL compliant03:37
SpeedEvilyes03:46
SpeedEvilMaybe.03:46
SpeedEvilIt depends on if the phone will run without any binary blobs for the drivers that are uncleared for copyright.03:46
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berndhsthere's nobody stopping them, other than whether the marketing would work03:46
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SpeedEvilIf there are binary blobs, then it's more tricky legally.03:48
berndhsyes it is03:48
berndhsbut suppose that's not an issue, that the phone just looks/works better with meego03:49
SpeedEvilDiddn't apple get upset at a vendor selling patch kits for OSX to make it run on alien hardware?03:49
berndhsthen you would have to convince consumers to buy the new os and put it on their phones03:50
SpeedEvilIndeed.03:50
SpeedEvilMeego at the moment is not very shiny - in general.03:50
SpeedEvilMay it work better than the stock OS on some phones if you get the right software combination - possibly.03:50
berndhsI think the mechanics of "simple" users installing a different OS could be a hurdle03:51
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SpeedEvilPerhaps.03:52
berndhsthe advantage could be something we're not tihnking of, say its the only OS for that phone that's in Chinese, or that isn't in Chinese03:55
berndhsit would depend on just how bad the native OS is for that phone03:55
SpeedEvilAnd how likely the users are not to rip it off.03:56
berndhsright, you might only sell 3 to an install base of 3 million03:56
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Bostiklbt, jedix: thank you; I won't be able to remove the package but I think I'll do a local repackaging with modified osc/conf.py (can't lose darktable, gnucash, pidgin, etc. from my box)07:29
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Bostikyep, that was it07:50
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iTmpHi08:01
iTmpsome one08:02
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Khaledi just have one question08:05
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dm8tbr<@foobot> 2011/08/20 03:29 CRIT api.meego.com HTTP CRITICAL - Socket timeout after 10 seconds09:57
dm8tbrand like ANY-GIVEN-SATURDAY API did NOT come back!09:57
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Stskeepsseems to be up for me09:58
dm8tbrmeego:/tmp# if curl -s "https://api.meego.com/public/lastevents?start=$(echo $(( $(curl -s  https://api.meego.com/public/lastevents | cut -f2 -d'"') - 10 )))" | grep -q "remote error"; then echo Public API down; else echo Public API up; fi09:59
dm8tbrPublic API down09:59
dm8tbrhttp came back after a while, but API is down according to this09:59
Stskeepscarsten@ideapad:~$ osc -A https://api.pub.meego.com ls MeeGo.com:Trunk | wc -l09:59
Stskeepswarning: your urllib2 version seems to be broken. Using a workaround for http://bugs.python.org/issue963909:59
Stskeeps140810:00
StskeepsWORKSFORME10:00
dm8tbrlbt: can you have a look? :) I'd be happy if it was just your one-liner that failed10:00
* Stskeeps ponders idly about build-compare10:04
Stskeepsso obs doesn't consider a package equal if it's build on two seperate hosts10:04
Stskeepsthat can't be good10:04
dm8tbrlike on two separate workers?10:06
Stskeepsyeah10:06
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Stskeepsi can see some degree of reasoning for that but..10:06
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dm8tbrstill it probably increases the churn a lot10:09
Stskeepsyes10:09
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jedixlbt: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=71326110:19
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Stskeepsany good suggestions for a regexp that turns obs://obsworker01/Mer:Trunk:Base/standard/4bec4e09b28319ef8fdc0e637c459dd8-gcc into obs://OBS/Mer:Trunk:Base/standard/4bec4e09b28319ef8fdc0e637c459dd8-gcc ?10:20
Stskeeps(obsworker is varying)10:23
SpeedEvilregex in what?10:24
Stskeepssed10:24
War2Stskeeps: what's OBS in the final string? Is it an abbreviation of obsworker01 or is a constant?10:24
StskeepsWar2: constant10:25
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SpeedEvilCan it be awk?10:25
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War2s/:\/\/.*\//:\/\/OBS\//   ?10:26
SpeedEvilhmm10:26
War2basically, replace "://.*/"  by  "://OBS/"10:26
jedixwouldn't that eat multiple /*/?10:26
Stskeepsjedix's right, eats multiple /'s10:27
DocScrutinizerobsworker01/Mer:Trunk:Base   to   OBS/Mer:Trunk:Base  ?10:27
Stskeepsright10:27
Stskeepsand obsworker01 is varying, ie, can't rely on that10:27
StskeepsOBS is the constant to be made10:27
jedixs/:\/\/[^/]*/OBS/ ?10:27
DocScrutinizerare the : delimiters and trunk and base vars?10:27
jedix..does taht work in sed?10:28
DocScrutinizeror is Mer:Trunk:Base not to process?10:28
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Stskeepscarsten@ideapad:~$ sed "s/:\/\/[^/]*/:\/\/OBS/" tes110:28
Stskeepsobs://OBS/Mer:Trunk:Base/standard/4bec4e09b28319ef8fdc0e637c459dd8-gcc10:28
Stskeepsthanks for your collaboration :)10:29
DocScrutinizers/obsworker01/OBS/ done10:30
Stskeepsobsworker varies and isn't always that10:30
Stskeeps:P10:30
War2cool :)10:30
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: yeah, see? please give decent specs on the task10:31
SpeedEvils/obsworker[0-9]/OBS/10:31
jedixhmm? the next line said it varies10:31
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jedixif it's just the digit, use \d*10:32
flailingmonkeyand you don't know how many digits after obsworker. or is it even always "obsworker"10:32
War2too many cooks ;) just use jedix's solution10:32
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: you can't RE a regex from one result10:32
DocScrutinizeror more like "you can RE infinite number of regex that create that one example as a result"10:33
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DocScrutinizeryou need at very least 2 examples to get the faintest idea how the regex has to look like so it creates both results10:33
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DocScrutinizerit's like "please give me the correct algorithm that yields 6 as the result of input 2"10:35
DocScrutinizer+4 ?10:36
DocScrutinizer* 3 ?10:36
jedixthat's crazy talk.10:36
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jedixeveryone knows with an input of 2 you shift left and fill in with 1's10:36
jedixway faster!10:37
DocScrutinizer:-D10:37
flailingmonkeylololol10:38
jedixx = 2 << 2 | 210:39
jedixthat's gotta be the fastest, right?10:40
jedixwait..10:40
jedixx = 2 << 1 | 210:40
jedixyeah. that one10:40
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DocScrutinizerx = 610:41
DocScrutinizer:-P10:41
jedixhmm, that is faster.10:41
jedixdamn10:41
DocScrutinizerworks for 'input' 2 (as well)10:42
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DocScrutinizerwhich is along the line s!.*!obs://OBS/Mer:Trunk:Base/standard/4bec4e09b28319ef8fdc0e637c459dd8-gcc!10:43
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Stskeepsok, let's see how much this speeds up generic bootstrap10:46
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lcukI am trying to install libreoffice on my netbook ux ideapad12:36
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/LibreOffice12:36
lcukas part of this it requires java12:36
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/Java12:36
lcukthe java installation is not working12:36
lcukcan anybody confirm the steps12:36
lamikrlcuk What's not working with it? At least the jre installer started downloading for me from the url mentioned in wiki.12:39
lcuklamikr, once the java install is downloaded12:39
lcuki chomded it12:39
lcukand ran that12:39
lcukwhich inflates the rpm out of the download12:40
lcukthen the rpm has errors12:40
lcuktrying direct from sun with alternative12:43
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lcuki found an alternative which seems to be getting further12:45
lcuk:)12:45
lamikrlcuk: Ok, I think the descriptions anyway worked for me. (But I downloaded the jre from link with browser, not with wget)12:46
lamikrhttp://pastebin.com/tP1pdrGW12:46
lcuklamikr, it was the rpm stage installing it12:46
lcukit downloaded ok12:46
lcukbut would not install12:46
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lcukhuzzah got it working13:02
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lcuksweet, I have libreoffice on my ideapad :)13:05
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pawlikHP touchpad 16GB  germany price: $600.  US price $9913:16
lbtjedix: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=713261 needs details : distro and osc version and source (distro pkg/git/meego) as a minimum13:16
lbtdm8tbr: it's down ... the key thing is that https://api.meego.com/public/lastevents?start=<some recent value> fails.13:17
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lbtthe initial https://api.meego.com/public/lastevents  gets the 'current' value and decrements it a little13:18
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lbtdm8tbr: I suggest another email; maybe cc the MeeGo IT mailing list and noting that we have people around who could fix it but, despite being an 'open' project, are forbidden. Right now the CO is representing Intel's interests just fine - not so much "the community"13:20
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lbtalso note that Ryan apparently didn't want to explain why we're forbidden on email last week but apparently can wait 2 weeks and explain in a private phone conversation.13:21
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Stskeepslbt,  i think the angle is along lines of savannah attacks13:47
lbt?13:49
lbthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK22WrO0pO4   <== google first hit13:50
Stskeepsyou recall, breaking in and repalcing files13:52
lbt*nod* ... still we have DNS control so...13:52
Stskeepstrue13:53
Stskeepsbut i even wonder how to handle that in a community setting13:53
Stskeepsspreading out obs workers could be problematic13:53
Stskeepson top of that, didnt there  use to be intel hidden projects on there\13:54
lbtoh yeah ... and don't forget that c.obs used Xen to protect workers for months prior to RE doing it13:54
lbtso when it comes to security awareness :)13:54
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Stskeepsits a good question how you can prove a worker is adding malicious things14:03
lbtyou can't14:04
lbthttp://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/hh/thompson/trust.html14:04
lbtbut ... at a pragmatic level14:05
lbtwe have a fairly rigorous monitoring system in c.obs space14:05
lbtat the OS level14:05
lbtwe don't run anything like aide yet - we should14:07
lbt(though our config audit tool is very similar)14:08
Stskeepsnot sure if you saw the convo, but i discovered that build_compare treats  two pkgs built on two different workers as different14:11
Stskeepsthat has to add to bad churn14:11
StskeepsDISTURL is the culprit14:11
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lbtStskeeps: mmm cc me on the bug if you raise it14:36
Stskeepswill do after i prove it speeds things up14:37
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lcuklbt, can libreoffice be built on the obs14:51
flailingmonkeylcuk: how could it pull in java? or is that only necessary for execution...14:53
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tazzi am using meego pinetrail and as soon as i start the music applet the UI hangs.15:03
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tazzany clue how do i restart / kill the applet ?15:04
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lbtlcuk: yes .... but we'd need to special-case it I'm sure15:11
lbtAnd I doubt it'd build for ARM on qemu - ask Stskeeps15:11
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yellabs-r2hello there16:13
yellabs-r2there was an website with instructions how to add community resources to meego ( to install mplayer and other media stuff ) what site could it be ? googled around but could not find it ..16:14
yellabs-r2any tips are welcome16:14
pebcaktazz tablet ui or netbook?16:14
tazzpebcak: tablet.16:15
yellabs-r2repositories , i368 , got it running on an labtop and on an desktop16:15
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tazzI think i got it to work now. I just let the music player be for like 20 minutes and it started working on its own.16:15
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tazzI am using the intel exopc.16:16
tazzhttp://www.exopc.com/devices/16:16
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yellabs-r2ah its meegolem16:20
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flailingmonkeytazz: yes it does do that16:23
tazzah i see.16:23
flailingmonkeytazz: it actually appears to attempt to open the .desktop file it is launched by, rather than just opening up16:23
flailingmonkeyand if it isn't given a valid file to open, it just sits there until the media indexer finishes up. then it finally returns to normal ui16:24
tazzright, i should file a bug.16:24
flailingmonkeykind of sucks, i don't know if there is a bug for it yet16:24
flailingmonkeyyes16:24
flailingmonkeyalso affects video and photos apps16:24
tazzvideo and photos are comparatively fast for me.16:25
flailingmonkeythey are much more graceful16:25
flailingmonkeybut they still try to open the .desktop file :p16:25
tazzoh ok :p16:25
tazzflailingmonkey: would there be any other repositories / apps you would suggest me to use ?16:26
flailingmonkeyphotos will give you a black "image" and if you go through the menu you can actually see that the filename for the photo is "meego-apps-photos.desktop"16:26
flailingmonkeyI would recommend getting using a recent image if haven't already put a new one on it :p16:26
tazzi am using 1.2.0.916:27
tazzdont know if there is anything more recent than that :)16:27
flailingmonkeythat is the recent series16:27
flailingmonkeyi haven't looked into many other repos16:28
nasa01Hi, I'm trying to learn to use mic2 and have a question that wasn't clear (at least to me) about the mic2.conf file...  If I define a repo in the mic2.conf file do I need to also have it in the .ks file?16:29
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tstaerkhi, I am trying to port an opensource program to meego for Intel Tablets18:11
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tstaerkI cannot #include "adpcppf.h"18:13
tstaerkit says me "no such file". Google does not help.18:13
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lbttstaerk: this is the right place - bit quiet at the moment18:29
lbtwhat pkg?18:29
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tstaerklbt:  thanks for the info this is the right place18:29
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tstaerkok, I set up meego sdk and started meego-sdk-qtcreator18:29
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tstaerkNow I want to put my GUID into my application.18:30
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tstaerkFor this you may have to #include  "adpcppf.h"18:30
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tstaerkso, no pkg at all18:30
tstaerkI am following this description: http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/blog/2011/03/30/how-integrate-appup-sdk-and-create-rpm-package-meego-applications18:31
* lbt wonders... is this an AppUp thingy?18:31
dm8tbrthat sounds like appup18:31
julianklbt: The header seems AppUp related18:31
tstaerkit is AppUp18:31
juliankIt's part of the AppUp SDK18:32
lbt*nod*18:32
tstaerkyes right.18:32
juliankNot of MeeGo18:32
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tstaerkwait, \18:32
tstaerkI get you18:32
smharis meego ready and available for N900?18:32
dm8tbrsmhar: look at the meego CE for N90018:32
lbtare you wanting to port an opensource thing to distribute via AppUp or start with just a plain OSS pkg?18:33
lbtthis is the right place for plain OSS - not seen much AppUp discussion though18:33
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tstaerkI want to port my "quickpen" to Meego18:33
tstaerkno problem if I have to rewrite everything, that should be doable in 2 hours18:33
lbthehe18:33
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lbtso I suggest you go with plain and simple opensource packaging18:34
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lbtthen migrate to AppUp later18:34
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tstaerkI have done the opensource packaging and want to do AppUp now18:34
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lbtOK - not sure you'll get much joy here. Not seen many AppUp bods around18:35
lbttry #meego-sdk though18:35
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lbtbe clear you want to do AppUp packagin18:35
lbtand US working day is your best bet18:36
tstaerkwell, you solved my problem18:36
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lbt:D18:36
lbtwhat was it ?18:36
tstaerkyou made me aware I need to install AppUp SDK, not only MeeGo SDK18:36
lbtah... good to know18:36
lbtmakes sense18:36
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tstaerkthanks18:39
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javispedroX-Fade: how can I get osc build harmattan to actually fetch the harmattan packages? or am I assumed to dump them into /var/tmp/osbuild-packagecache/?18:41
lbtjavispedro: it should do that automatically18:41
javispedrolbt: it tries to wget from repo.pub.meego.com but they're not there.18:41
lbtmmm yes, it's noisy about that. it should fallback to another method later on18:42
javispedroaaaaaaah18:42
lbtjust leave it to run18:42
javispedrook, thanks18:42
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lbtISTR the OBS now prepares a *huge* cpio for you18:43
javispedro(it's like 300 packages so it'll take a while just for the roundtrips)18:43
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lbtyeah ... we're in a bad spot atm18:43
lbtthe maemo.org obs is 2.3 and c.obs is 2.118:44
lbtnot super-compatible18:44
javispedro:(18:44
lbtwe can't upgrade just yet... soon though18:44
lbt(weeks)18:44
javispedroah18:44
javispedroso COBS is 2.1??18:44
javispedrothat might explain the debian -j4 thing18:44
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lbtyes18:45
javispedrothank god.18:45
lbtlatest 2,118:45
javispedroah.18:45
javispedroI meant it was changed early this year iirc, so the change might not have been in 2.118:45
javispedroso supposedly with the upgrade to 2.3 it'll fix by itself.18:45
lbtthat'd be nice18:45
lbtand I am kinda keeping my head in the sand until 2.318:46
lbtas you can guess .. 2.2 never happend18:46
lbtso the gap is fairly big18:46
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lbtand it's not worth spending ages solving 2.1 issues18:46
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tazzcant get the meego default music player to un-mute.18:47
javispedroI'll update the getting started wiki page with this "just wait" piece of info for local builds18:47
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lbtta18:48
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* javispedro curses and ponders downloading a opensuse vm19:56
javispedroosc build seems to make many assumptions about its host, and conflicts with sb1's binfmt_misc :(19:57
Stskeepsah19:57
Stskeepssec19:57
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Stskeepshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build/Application_Building#Co-existing_with_Scratchbox19:58
Stskeepsyes, mer comes to the rescue19:58
Stskeeps:P19:58
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javispedroyeah, I know how to do that specially since I found out that Gentoo does not package qemu-binfmt-conf.sh19:58
javispedroand I can run /sbin/ldconfig inside the build-root but still get -ENOFILE when using osc :(19:59
javispedrooh19:59
* javispedro ponders19:59
javispedroshouldn't qemu be inside the chroot too?19:59
Stskeepsyess19:59
javispedrothen I bet I need to make a static build...19:59
Stskeepsyes20:00
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lcuklbt re libreoffice21:36
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lcukyeah having it available in a simple manner for the netbook build at least is good21:37
lcukit is ok as it is for console savvy users21:37
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RhymeswAlcuk   doesn't it (libreoffice) require java run time?  and isn't that a problem?21:44
lcukRhymeswA, yes it is required21:45
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/LibreOffice21:45
lcukthe first step to installing libreoffice21:45
lcukis to install java21:45
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/Java21:45
lcukthe installation is fairly simple21:45
lcukand the instructions are correct in that libreoffice is installed and works21:45
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lcukit is just extra manual steps which with a nice apps interface we should not require21:46
RhymeswAAhh,  ....   thnks21:46
lcukeven the spreadsheet works21:46
* lcuk smiles21:46
RhymeswAWhoo!21:47
lcukI am please it works, I transfered a set of documents over last night and hadn't realised it was not installed by default21:49
RhymeswAI'll try it later, ...21:51
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npmhttp://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qtzibit-google-maps-streetview.png22:06
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npm^^^ dropped onto a random island, found penguins :-)22:06
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npmhow i got there: http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qtzibit-google-maps-satellite.png22:16
npm^^^ screenshots from harmattan22:16
andre__hehe22:17
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lcuklol npm22:30
timophevening22:33
lcukhiya timoph \o22:35
lcukhow is your weekend?22:35
timophok22:35
* lcuk ate ice cream and played games at Blackpool today22:35
timophtried to stay away from computers this weekend but failed22:36
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lcukheh we have xfactor on tv so somewhat distracted myself22:36
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timophI thought of writing a simple qml media player for CE22:37
lcukcool22:38
lcukMohammadAG, would the maemo community media player actually work here22:38
lcuksave duplicating if it already would22:38
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timophhaven't looked into it22:39
timophbut anyway it's pretty easy to do with qtmultimediakit qml bindings22:40
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lcukyeah timoph, I just recall when it was written it was with a mind to using it on meego too22:41
* timoph checks if google knows where the sources for it are22:42
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timophfound it22:45
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* Myrtti is playing with Arduino22:55
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lcukMyrtti, are you tinkering or wanting to make something specific?23:13
* lcuk likes arduinos23:13
Myrttilcuk: probably doing a tweeting doorbell23:14
Myrttiwell, D is23:15
lcukheh23:15
MyrttiI'll get a lilypad and do something nice with that23:15
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lcukMyrtti, there was an awesome arduino powered piece at Intel Remastered exhibition23:16
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Alison_ChaikenAny sign of slides from LinuxCon this week? I can't find them yet.   Are they up at meego.com?23:24
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andre__Alison_Chaiken, how is LinuxCon related to meego.com? :) Apart from that I'd expect videos at https://video.linux.com/video/ at some point...23:31
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thiagoit's an LF event and there's a big MeeGo presence23:37
GAN900thiago, the LF keynote at the MeeGo Conference didn't have much MeeGo presence, why should an LF event? *eg*23:40
thiagothe rest of the meego conference had a lot of meego content23:42
* w00t_ pokes at ofono a bit23:42
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MyrttiGAN900: *snerk*23:46
Myrttimeanie23:47
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Alison_Chaikenandre_ there was a whole meego track at LinuxCon last week.   Say what you like, I want to see the slides!  If not a video too.23:52
Alison_ChaikenGAN900, BTW, I agree that the keynote at the MeeGoCon in May sucked, and I said so on the post-conference survey, and put my name on it too.23:53
Alison_ChaikenI gave the keynote 1/5 stars, and put my email on.   I'm a "member" of Linux Foundation, FWIW.23:53
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