IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2011-08-09

UmeaboySavago: Are you regged on the Wiki?00:00
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Savago'regged'?00:03
lcuki believe it is a hip term for registered ;)00:04
pebcakstill noone at the cccamp or planning to go there?00:05
lcukwht is cccamp?00:06
pebcakhttp://events.ccc.de/00:06
lcukpebcak, I thought most people were at the desktop summit, which is also happening in berlin now00:08
SavagoUmeaboy, well, I'm registered for about 50 weeks or something in meego.com.00:08
SavagoAnd tried to edit the wiki while logged in.00:08
pebcaklcuk only the lame ones... like lennart & co. :P00:08
lcukpebcak, lol nope a lot of decent folks are there00:09
pebcaklcuk was joking00:09
pebcakhence the emoticon00:09
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lcuki still wonder which simple day to day apps will work best across the broad spectrum of devices00:10
berndhslcuk: ssh, I use it every day00:11
pebcakssh -X -Y00:12
UmeaboySavago: Lookup your user-rights,00:12
pebcak:P00:12
SavagoUmeaboy, checking...00:12
lcukberndhs, that is part of the problem with linux00:12
lcukwe spend time developing apps for us00:12
lcukand geeks are a tiny part of whole ecosystem00:13
berndhsssh is part of the solution00:13
* lcuk would rather write apps for real people00:13
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berndhsi'm as real as the simple folk :)00:13
lcukyou know what I mean00:13
SavagoUmeaboy, the following tabs are available in My account: View, Edit, Notifications, OpenID, Track, File Browser, Mailing lists.00:13
Savagoin which can I check the user-rights?00:13
berndhsok, make a direct chat program, point to point, no servers00:13
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lcukberndhs, that is called talking00:14
berndhsor put an xmpp (jabber) server on your home server machine00:14
* lcuk should do more of it00:14
berndhsand, more importantly, make your home server available outside your home00:14
berndhsso your family can chat, update the calendar, etc. etc.  when away00:15
lcukberndhs, my home server now has lamp stack and the beginnings of proper sync stuff for the handwritten stuff00:15
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lcukI am investigating how to do data sync properly00:15
berndhsright, a jabber server is straightforward to add00:15
lcukbut for joe bloggs00:16
lcukthis approach is not practical00:16
berndhsor you can run an IRC server00:16
berndhspre-packaging jabber servers shouldn't be hard, but someone has to do it00:16
lcukberndhs, technically I have this: http://liqbase.net/liqbase_net_preview.png00:17
lcukbut that is not quite what I need just yet, it does not have the downstream side00:17
UmeaboySavago: Check #meego-devel & ask there.00:17
SavagoUmeaboy, thanks. :-)00:18
Myrttioggcamp on my birthday \o/00:18
berndhsactually you can run a statusnet server at home too, and do private twitter-style messaging00:18
pebcakbuddycloud!00:18
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berndhsthey are over at #statusnet00:20
lcuki don't want to add new technology, I just want to somehow get what I have working nicely and packaged up so it can be useful00:22
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berndhsso you need a shared update mechanism, and independet of that you need packaging00:23
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lcukberndhs, bit more than packaging, ovi and appup generally do not appreciate something != qt00:25
lcukespecially if I want client working on symbian too00:25
* lcuk is learning qt 00:25
lcukthis juggling lark is crap00:26
berndhswell, you need to pack the whole thing into rpm/deb, and include a decent installation method and setupp00:26
lcukI shall go offline and come back with a plan00:26
lcukin deb form its there, I have it installed on all home machines nicely00:26
lcukas I have had for years00:26
berndhsi'm guessint the simple-people setup isn't there yet00:26
lcukthe network aspect eludes me always00:27
lcukwhat I can do here between my set of machines00:27
lcukI know my mum couldnt do, for reasons of skill and compatability with devices00:27
lcukin time gone by, I would assign tasks to other members of team00:28
lcukin open source there is no real method to do such things00:28
lcukbbl got some stuff to write00:32
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CosmoHillSpeedEvil: http://bash.org/?70164401:27
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SpeedEvilOld.01:47
SpeedEvilI think that was ##linux01:48
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CosmoHillI throw my k800i at the floor and the battery came out02:15
CosmoHillbut it was still displaying the time for 30 seconds after until I put my battery back in and restarted it02:15
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* MSM1 throws CosmoHill at the floor02:16
* CosmoHill 's battery falls out02:16
CosmoHillTue Aug  9 00:16:57 BST 201102:16
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MSM1Just as I thought02:17
MSM1An Andriod02:17
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CosmoHillcyas03:30
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berndhsguys this is not good http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7&msa=0&ie=UTF8&ll=51.536086,-0.056305&spn=0.39294,0.630341&z=10&source=embed03:55
sofarand maps like that will really help03:57
* sofar suggests #meego-bar03:57
berndhsk03:57
SpeedEvilberndhs: It's not.04:01
SpeedEvilberndhs: It should be over openstreetmap.04:01
berndhsthat too04:01
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SpeedEvilPeople are actually fixing openstreetmap based on reports.04:05
SpeedEvilFor example, deleting pubs.04:05
berndhsi tried making a app with openstreetmap, couldn't get it to create a useful map fast enough04:08
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SpeedEvilYou mean drawing vector data?04:37
berndhscollecting all the small bits into streets and highways04:37
berndhsthe drawing was not a problem, but building useful objects from the small parts is really expensive04:38
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SpeedEvilYou mean you're rendering from the data onto a live view?04:41
SpeedEvilRendering isn't a trivial problem, no.04:41
berndhsi was trying to do routing, so I needed to connect all the streets and highways04:41
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SpeedEvilAh.04:42
SpeedEvilThat gets complex, fast.04:42
berndhsand figuring out all the connections was O(n^3) or something04:42
SpeedEvilA* sort-of helps04:42
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SpeedEvilThat sort of approach04:42
SpeedEvilAnd if you can assume that the problem reduces to 'get on the nearest motorway/freeway'04:43
berndhsyes perhaps, its not simple04:43
berndhsbut n is really big for longer routes04:43
SpeedEvilPreprocessing the atas is almost mandatory.04:43
SpeedEvildata04:43
berndhsyes that was my impression, you probably need to pre-compute the routing database04:44
gabrbeddWomen are O(N^N)04:44
berndhsyeah that's why I stick to algorithms, women are too complex04:44
* SpeedEvil ponders a 'constant time' joke, but backs off.04:45
gabrbeddSpeedEvil: I'm getting O(1).  But women still turn me O(n)04:47
berndhswomen turn on me04:48
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flailingmonkeygabrbedd: you're getting O(1)? i thought you were still with n*0(1)04:51
flailingmonkey(really stretching it there)04:52
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gabrbeddflailingmonkey: :-)04:56
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* TSCHAKeee looks at flailingmonkey...05:10
TSCHAKeeeflailingmonkey: NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!05:10
TSCHAKeee;)05:10
flailingmonkeyhehehe05:10
flailingmonkey:D05:10
TSCHAKeeeheheheh05:11
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flailingmonkeyso the exopc has some weirdness about the bluetooth adapter05:23
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flailingmonkeyi did get it recognized for a moment05:23
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flailingmonkeyalrighty thennn08:50
flailingmonkeyi've got bluetooth adapter recognized, and crystalhd driver too, for exopc08:50
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flailingmonkeyprobably should test them now08:50
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peterbjornxhello12:01
peterbjornxis there any way to install a UX to the terminal only chroot images for n90012:02
peterbjornx*well not really terminal only but TWM + Xterm isnt much of an UI for a phone12:02
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peterbjornxanyone wanna help me on this?12:05
peterbjornxi dont care if i have to compile it myself12:05
iekkupeterbjornx, try #meego-arm?12:06
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Venemopeterbjornx, I think you can install any UX with zypper12:09
Venemopeterbjornx, you may have to configure uxlaunch manually.12:09
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dm8tbror use aard's ux-selector :)12:19
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peterbjornxok12:21
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JaffaMorning, all12:30
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lcukmorning Jaffa \o12:32
peterbjornxmorning12:32
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peterbjornxvenemo, im sorry to bug you but, what package to install for handset ux?12:35
Venemopeterbjornx, I've no idea what the packages are called. maybe meegotouch-*12:36
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lcukpeterbjornx, this might help somewhat: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Desktop/Changing_Desktops12:38
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peterbjornxthanks12:40
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rcherianhi veskuh,13:32
veskuhhi13:33
rcheriancould you put the patch to upstream as well for But 15407 ?13:33
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rcherianveskuh, ^13:33
veskuhyes, I've submitted it to upstream13:33
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veskuhhttps://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux/meego-handset-sms/merge_requests/213:34
rcherianok thanks13:34
rcherianveskuh,13:34
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CosmoHillthe UK riots are just depressing13:39
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lcukindeed13:41
CosmoHillwho needs terrorists when you have "young people"13:41
slaineWhat's good to see though is stuff like #riotcleanup trending on Twitter13:42
slaineand people volunteering their time to help out those affected13:43
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CosmoHillI saw that on the BBC13:44
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lcuk#meego-meeting in just a few minutes: 11:00 N900 Community Edition Team Meetings13:59
the-bosslcuk: Error: "meego-meeting" is not a valid command.13:59
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lbt_helI guess I missed the CO meeting14:50
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iekku?14:50
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iekkuhow come?14:50
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lbt_helwasn't it 2.50 ago ?14:50
iekku14 UTC14:51
iekkuso there's still 2h before it starts14:52
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htmlwhat starts?14:54
htmland hi14:54
lcukhi html14:54
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lcukdo you leave the channel if /html joins?14:54
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lcuklbt_hel, \o14:54
lcukyou just got the tailend of the n900 community meeting14:55
htmli am he14:55
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lbt_helah14:55
iekkuwhat happens here?14:55
htmllcuk, i am he ,14:55
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lcukiekku, I thought you were regular here14:56
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htmli used to14:56
lcuklbt_hel, i solved simple shopfloor multi device layout issue I think14:56
lcukie make all the meego devices show part of same screen14:57
htmllcuk,  way back when this was called moblin14:57
lcukwithout cameras and stuff14:57
htmli was14:57
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htmli think so14:57
iekkulcuk, i have just been in vacation, get married etc, you can't wait that i'm in very sharp condition :P14:59
html its been since like what  veersion  .9 to 1.06   since then ,  and i forget how to get it to work , and how to install it , and change .img it to a .iso14:59
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htmlwell how do i set up meego on a netbook?15:04
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htmluse a flash drive ?15:05
iekkuhttps://meego.com/devices/netbook/installing-meego-your-netbook15:05
iekku?15:05
htmlhow do i get the img to be a iso15:06
html?15:06
timophrename it :)15:07
CosmoHill"html" is an odd nick15:09
Clintis it?15:10
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htmlmy full is html_inprogress15:10
iekkui prefer my name15:10
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slainehtml, I don't recognize your nick from the moblin days.15:13
htmlwell i rember you15:13
slaineEither way, the process is still the same, download the image, write it to the usb drive15:13
htmlremember you15:14
slaineI think the .img can be burned to CD but I haven't installed from CD in …. I forget, it's been a while15:14
slainehtml: cool. Why do you need to use an ISO btw ?15:14
CosmoHillthe .img can be burnt to a DVD (it's 1GB)15:14
CosmoHillyou normally need to rename it from .img to .iso so that software will recognise it15:15
slaineman, I'm hungry15:16
slaineI should probably get some lunch, but not sure what to get15:16
CosmoHillfood15:16
iekkuslaine, pizza15:16
slainethat's a good start15:16
slaineiekku: I don't eat bread of any sort, so pizza would just be tomato and cheese soup ;)15:17
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slainesoup, hmmm, perhaps15:17
iekkuslaine, kebab!15:17
slainethought of that, the nearest kebab place closes on a tuesday for some reason15:18
iekku:(15:18
slaineI'll take a wander and see what I can see15:18
slainelaters15:18
iekkumaybe they are hunting the kebabanimals on tuesday15:18
html well i like to have it so i can use it with aka: xboot, yumi, easy 123 installer,    so i can  use it to try out on my gf nettop ,  and iso is tha only way the apps im useing well use it,, and in the latter part i hope to assamble the best os  in the catorgory  to  have a all in one , on a hard drive  using a muliti-boot,,,15:21
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lcukw00t_, contacts sync stuff15:32
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lcukwould a web service to push and store your contacts (but not trying to be anything more) be useful?15:33
slainehtml: but if you put it on a USB device, you can use it without installing or messing up your gf's nettop15:34
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htmli know that , but thats the hard thing15:36
htmlgetting it there15:36
lcukbbiab15:37
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iekkuhtml, how come?15:37
slainehtml, what OS are you working from15:38
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htmlubuntu 10.10 remix ,ms 7 starter15:39
htmllinux is what im on now15:40
slaineand what is the blocker with creating the the usb disk ?15:40
slaineyou'd just have to use sudo dd if=/path/to/meego.img of=/dev/<usb_flash>15:41
slaineThat would boot and run the live env faster than a DVD15:41
arfolladd bs=1M that dd cmd15:42
iekkui think the introduction for adding a image to the usb is good, even i can do that15:42
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slainearfoll: I find 2M works better15:43
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slainedepends on the usb flash drive you're using I guess15:44
arfollslaine, always 3.14 for me...15:44
slaine:)15:44
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html" bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'15:46
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Venemo~seen lcuk15:56
infobotlcuk <lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 18m 58s ago, saying: 'bbiab'.15:56
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slainehtml, I'm guessing that's a cut'n'paste error16:01
slainearfoll: something that's not clear to me, Are the MeeGoTV WG meetings private ?16:01
arfollthey're phone meetings so yes. but meeting notes are public and open to comments16:02
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andre__slaine, see the answer you've got at http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-tv/2011-August/000092.html ?16:04
andre__slaine, you could ask how to join the phone meeting. I'd be curious for the answer.16:04
arfollandre__, answer is going to be join the WG. And well the answer to that is get 'nominated'16:05
slaineandre__, arfoll It doesn't mention if they're private or public, just that they are held via the phone. Early discussions iirc, where that it was easier for the people involved in the WG if they where held over the phone as IRC wasn't something they'd be used to16:05
andre__arfoll, why should I have to join something just to lurk around at its meetings?16:06
slaineIf they're private then I guess we're screwed16:06
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GAN900What's private?16:06
TermanaSomething tells me that they are private16:07
arfollslaine, well ask ahead, i'd be interested in the response too16:07
TermanaGAN900, TV Working Group phone conference16:07
GAN900lol16:08
GAN900TVs aren't phones!16:08
arfollGAN900, thanks for your insight16:08
andre__slaine: if you don't ask how to join via phone, I might do it.16:08
iekkuslaine, please ask again?16:08
GAN900Working groups are the corporate end16:09
slaineI've asked again16:09
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GAN900I don't think there's any requirement that their processes be public.16:09
slaineI'm not saying there is16:09
arfollGAN900, I don't think anyone is complaining, we're asking if we can join16:09
slaineI'm asking for clarification on if we can get involved or not, that's all16:09
TermanaAnd if we can't join16:09
TermanaThen we'll complain16:10
Termanajust you watch16:10
slainelol16:10
iekku:D16:10
arfolli believe IVI wg meetings are closed too16:10
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RST38hSave yourself trouble and start complaining right away16:10
slaineThats probably a good reason to keep them private, it'll keep Termana out16:10
iekkuarfoll, i think that too16:10
Termanaslaine, heh :p16:10
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iekkuslaine, nice one16:12
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arfollslaine, looks good sources are in http://build.meego.com/project/show?project=devel%3Atv%3A1.216:19
arfollbut i'll let it be heard on record16:20
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DawnFosterCommunity Office meeting starting in 15 minutes in #meego-meeting http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings16:43
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timophoh. almost forgot about it. thanks for the reminder DawnFoster16:47
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Guest56433ho17:12
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timophlcuk: so this was just a publicity stunt :)17:41
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lcuktimoph, not by a long shot.17:42
timoph:D17:42
arfolli propose banning access to apps.meego.com from the US...17:46
arfolllawyers ruining meego...17:47
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timophyep. I never stops to amaze me how free sw becomes non-free by crossing the atlantic17:48
timophi/it17:48
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arfollmust be the freedom the sw gains by crossing...17:49
timoph:)17:50
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Texrattime for the after meeting party!!!18:00
qgillbt_away: just a thing after the meeting discussion on apps.formeego.org18:00
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X-Fadeqgil: He's on his way to the airport.18:00
qgilwe still haven't got an official statement from the LF but this is the MeeGo project and we have seen the opinions in the meeting of DawnFoster and bdub18:01
TexratX-Fade how the hell are ya buddy18:01
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Texrathey wazd18:01
qgilto me they count as just as good, or even better since these are the people in charge of the MeeGo project areas that overlap apps.formeego.org18:01
X-Fadeqgil: It still feels like we are forking.18:02
qgilI was glad to see their comments supporting the initiative, so that's it18:02
qgilX-Fade: feelings are subjective   ;)18:02
Texratqgil your efforts are really appreciated18:02
X-Fadeqgil: Oh yes.18:02
Texratnot sure you know how much ;)18:03
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qgilX-Fade: as I said, I believe people will understand much better the community apps catalog once they see it up & running for a year or so18:03
qgilI don't see the problem18:03
qgil(apart from the funding, which seems not to be a short term issue but will be a big mid term issue in future years if nobody else steps in)18:04
Texratthe *only* potential issue as I see it will be discoverability of *.formeego.com, and as a noisy community we can solve that :D18:04
slaineI'm seeing in the same light as rpmfusion for Fedora18:04
X-Fadeqgil: I tend to not see problems, but this has left me thinking if it is still worth it.18:04
qgilbut this is the problem of sustainability any community project has to face - no news18:04
slaineSo long as there's an easy way to get the repo onto the device, we'll be ok18:04
Texratexactly slaine18:04
qgilbringing OSS community apps developed by the community for the community and for pure end users is worth it, I think18:05
timophyep18:05
slaineAnd if there's not, they probably wouldn't have enabled apps.meego.com anyway18:05
Texrat(I think my microphone is off)18:05
lcuki quite admire the n950 ability to install .debs directly from browser :)18:05
slaineqgil: +118:05
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arfolli'd rather it installed rpms from the the browser but we can setlle18:05
DawnFosterTexrat: it will be posted prominently on the apps page, so visibility shouldn't be an issue18:05
Texratlcuk absolutely-- I have been testing that at my-meego.com18:05
lcukapps.formeego.com/store.deb18:05
lcukfor instance18:06
Texratthanks DawnFoster, but it extends to slaine'18:06
JaffaBut if the biggest corporate sponsor of MeeGo would "prefer" us to use AppUp; and - officially - Nokia makes it more enticing and easier for developers to target Ovi; apps.formeego.org is really only useful if it's going to be used.18:06
Texratslaine's point about repos too18:06
JaffaI don't know if I'd use it if I was a new developer coming to MeeGo/Harmattan when the steer is so clearly elsewhere :-/18:06
qgilmost of these questions can be seen differently when looked from the point of view of each MeeGo device appearing in the market18:07
JaffaHarmattan making it easy to install standalone debs contributes the same way18:07
DawnFosterJaffa: I'd just like to point out that that isn't what I said (in case you were quoting me)18:07
Texratthe only issue I have with my-meego.com is lack of obvious QA... download Solitaire app to get an idea18:07
htmlqgil,  im not total sure what you mean  but it sounds good , since people  make alot of apps , hard to know about something when there no avertasment18:07
qgilhow can apps.formeego.org be useful to WeTab users, Asus netbook users, N9 users...? etc18:07
timophJaffa: at least I prefer something that lets me target x86 and arm18:07
JaffaDawnFoster: No, I know.18:07
Texrathtml as a community we can solve advertisement issues18:07
Jaffatimoph: Indeed. Multiple targets is the big selling point.18:07
DawnFosterJaffa: just being clear to avoid anyone misunderstanding18:07
qgilhtml: have great apps in that catalog and you will see how word spreads18:08
JaffaTexrat: my-meego.com will suffer the same problems as my-maemo.com. It's dangerous and should be watched carefully.18:08
Texratagreed Jaffa18:08
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JaffaTexrat: my-maemo.com always links straight to the latest version which is in -devel. Users think they've found a treasure trove (and the site design is hideous, but that's aesthetic ;-))18:08
arfollhas anyone tried to sell apps.*meego.com to wetab? They have an OBS for community apps with a target, it could be a good starting point to get an, albeit small, real vendor using the repo18:08
TexratJaffa my-meego.com *could* induce meego FUD if too many poor apps are available18:08
htmlTexrat,  i mean  aka " tv giude like"18:09
chouchounewould possibly Appup or Ovi stores act as proxying formeego.com apps (for thjeir own architecture only, of course)18:09
Texrathtml well, let's solve that18:09
Jaffaarfoll: They're an obvious sponsoring candidate.18:09
* lcuk still feels scope for a meego Mall18:09
qgilthis is why the apps.formeego.org community QA process is one of its best kept secrets  ;)18:09
Texratlol qgil18:09
dm8tbrTexrat: btw, as forMeeGo com won't be allowed to carry any official MeeGo artwork... I hear you have some connections, any chance to get some things going for that?18:09
Texratdm8tbr not sure what you mean... that may require separate conversation18:10
timophqgil: actually that should be ironed out *before* the thing goes live18:10
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Texratdm8tbr I have same connections you do pretty much ;)18:10
dm8tbrTexrat: yes, I'm trying to start one, but we can continue that topic whenever you fell like it18:10
chouchounewhy not an "allow partner app stores" in forMeego to automatically submit to Ovi/Appup ?18:10
Texratdm8tbr just afraid details would get buried here18:11
chouchoune(if these agree)18:11
JaffaDawnFoster: The message (from both Nokia and Intel) generally is that their own app stores are the way to go. It's only at the project level that folks like yourself and qgil are encouraging of the community-led approach. That's perfectly commercially understandable - as you pointed out18:11
lcukchouchoune, that is a nice idea18:11
qgiltimoph: of course, and if you notice I've been advocating on spending more time on practical issues like "community QA process" instead of why the LF this, how the software patents that, etc18:11
htmlTexrat,  its a common and very annoying problem   with all of linux, and it has a anti- newbbie effect,,,,18:11
Texratdm8tbr would prefer special dialog about that18:11
lcukthe highest quality apps on formeego could get extra coverage18:11
chouchounelcuk: thanks ;)18:11
Texratagreed html... part of my perosnal mission is to overcome that18:11
dm8tbrchouchoune: that is actually a good idea18:11
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timophqgil: I'm not completely on page with the latest community QA discussion. could you point me somewhere where I could get up to speed?18:12
Texrathtml that's exactly why I started MeeGo Greeters... we can borrow from that for other purposes18:12
lcukof course that also allows for an "this app is originally available on formeego" in the description18:12
qgilapps.formeego.org also needs to look for the reason and justification of its existance e.g. before maemo.org/downloads was useful because Ovi would not accept individual developers - now this has changed18:12
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dm8tbrchouchoune: and that is something where Intel and Nokia could see value for their app stores, once something is gone through apps.formeego it should be less work to take it to appup or ovi18:12
Jaffatimoph: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/QA & meego-community (IIRC)18:12
TexratOh I have an announcement to make:18:13
timophJaffa: thanks18:13
TexratI will be interviewing again soon with a certain Finnish cell phoen company18:13
Jaffatimoph: No-one argued with them, so I assume they're well on their way to being implemented - modulo any pauses from X-Fade et al caused by apps.meego.com confusion18:13
qgiltimoph: I could point you to the lack of discussion  ;)  Jaffa has been pushing this in the recent past and I bet he welcomes help18:13
dm8tbrTexrat: :)18:13
JaffaTexrat: Traitor (congrats ;-))18:13
dm8tbrTexrat: going to work for benefon? ;)18:13
chouchounelcuk: dm8tbr : yes, and I see it also as providing less duplicates, if someone tries to install the app from Appup and forMeego18:13
Texratlol dm8tbr18:13
Texratno, hopefully in IT for Nokia-- the one area so far immune from business changes :D18:14
timophqgil: I'll have a look and think about it a bit and start making noise :)18:14
qgilok, now I have to go through 100 cadidates to get N950 to bring more OSS to apps.formeego.org...  ;)18:14
Texratqgil we may be colleagues again soon ;)18:14
jedixno n9 in canada? sad.18:14
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htmlTexrat,  telll me more. pleasee..18:14
Texratqgil we need to talk about that review process... separate conversation?18:14
Jaffatimoph: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-sdk/2011-May/001368.html18:14
* thiago is waiting for the N9 to go on sales18:14
Texrathtml about what18:15
thiagohopefully it will be soon18:15
qgilTexrat: yes, separate.. and once the current 300 are on their way please18:15
* dm8tbr wants to order the N9 as his business phone18:15
Jaffathiago: Seen http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/09/nokia-the-n9-isnt-coming-to-america/ ? :-(18:15
* thiago isn't in america18:15
Texratqgil I'm trying to help you with current 50 N950s but we need to talk18:15
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Texratqgil should I email you?18:16
qgilTexrat: I really plan to get a friend for the 15 remaining devices - if you have any input please let me know asap18:16
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Texratok qgil18:17
arfollpeople seen this? http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/09/nokia-the-n9-isnt-coming-to-america/18:17
qgilthanks Texrat18:17
* thiago can travel to Finland to get the N918:17
Texratqgil did you see the concern about the wiki entries being deleted?18:17
Texratthiago get one for me too buddy :D18:17
thiagoarfoll: and if you read the text, you see Engadget missed one word in the header: "yet"18:18
* slaine pictures thiago getting stopped at customer with a bag full of N9's18:18
qgilTexrat: yes, of course I saw that18:18
arfollthiago, well its speculative news as always...18:18
Jaffathiago: C'mon, that's pretty standard corporate speak for "we have no plans" - which means it ain't gonna happen without a decision being changed.18:18
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slaineStops it competing with the WP7 phone when they ship it18:18
arfoll^ or delay it so they can have the N10 as the high end WP phone18:19
slainethey'll limit the choice to WP7 devices in key markets that they want to claw back market share18:19
thiagoJaffa: there's a certain amount of devices that can be produced per unit of time18:19
thiagoso the company decides where to send the first units18:19
radiofreethere's always the internet as well, you can buy online these days :)18:19
thiagoit has happened before, with other devices18:19
Texratthiago I've seen how fast the Nokia phones are cranked out ;)18:20
jedixbut if you buy on the net, you have to make sure the phoen you buy will be compatible with your carrier18:20
Texratjedix if they're unlocked it's just a matter of bands, which are public knowledge18:21
jedixyeah18:21
jedixI wouldn't be surprised if the Canada bands are ignored18:22
Texratpity of course for anyone stuck on CDMA ;)18:22
chouchouneanother probklem is, where to buy (even online)18:22
Texratjedix I doubt that18:22
chouchouneNokia has regional warranty I think18:22
Texratgood point chouchoune that can be an issue18:22
Texratso buy at your own risk18:22
chouchouneI had that issue after buying my N900 in Dubai ;)18:23
Texratthere was a lOT of that18:23
arfollwho wants to be any N9 at nokia care will be swapped for a WP?18:23
thiagoTexrat: I know. But I also know the expected volume for the N9 (information several months old)18:23
chouchouneit was a warranty in the Gulf region only18:23
Texratarfoll broken N900s are now swapped for N8s ;)18:23
JaffaOr E7s18:23
Texratyeah18:24
Texratkinda random18:24
timophor even C6s18:24
Texratack18:24
arfollTexrat, thats what i was refering to18:24
timoph(heard about that earlier today)18:24
JaffaDawnFoster: Thanks for the meeting - I got a lot out of that, but didn't get to ask my AOB question about governance processes for the Project18:24
DawnFosterJaffa: yeah, we didn't have time for aob18:25
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JaffaDawnFoster: Got distracted by colleagues asking work questions anyway about some enhancement they're working on18:26
arfollslaine, you saw the answer? Can't say i'm surprised18:26
slainearfoll: Yeah, good answer18:26
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slainesorry, irc client fail18:28
slainearfoll: yes, it was a good answer18:28
slaine(not sure if that went through)18:28
arfollslaine, yeah it did18:28
arfollyou going to try join?18:29
slaineok, i'm off18:29
slainearfoll: not sure, WG seems to be industry related18:29
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slaineI'll probably try and just be more pro-active at a community contribution level18:29
arfollyeah i'm not to sure there is much point as a community member. I hope they get us some FOSS GStreamer dvb* sources though18:30
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slaineok, commute time18:31
slainelaters18:31
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Texratgotta get back to work, later all.  Should be interviewing at Nokia again next week.  :)18:33
SpeedEvil:)18:33
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SpeedEvilGood luck.18:33
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timophJaffa: no wonder I missed the ml conversation on the QA since it happened in meego-sdk :/18:44
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Jaffatimoph: Affects app developers; that's what -sdk is for - although you're right, could do with more visibility18:58
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timophJaffa: I'll post some thoughts about it to -community and reference the original discussion19:02
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lcukanybody know how the desktop summit is going?19:57
lcukand whether any cool cross platform apps have been announced ?19:57
JartzaI just noticed that we've had a huge sexual liberation in Finland within the last few years20:01
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Jaffatimoph: oThanks, replied20:01
Jartza2-3 years ago most of my friends told that iPhone is for homosexuals20:01
Jartzanowadays most of my friends have an iPhone...20:02
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Venemo_N950Jartza, have they become homosexuals?20:03
JartzaI haven't asked20:03
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JartzaI just jumped into conclusions :)20:04
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berndhsnot that there's anything wrong with that20:07
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M4rtinK2NICE! just got modRana running on the N950 :)20:10
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M4rtinK2with PyGTK :)20:10
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Venemo_N950M4rtinK2, what is modRana20:12
M4rtinK2Venemo_N950: http://wiki.maemo.org/Navigation_Tools#modRana20:13
M4rtinK2a GPS navigation system20:13
Venemo_N950can't open the link, sorry20:14
Venemo_N950it isn't highlighted, nor can I select text :(20:15
Venemo_N950I have to implement either of those in my irc client20:15
M4rtinK2project website is: http://www.modrana.org20:16
M4rtinK2and there is a lively thread on talk.maemo.org20:16
Venemo_N950:)20:17
Venemo_N950ok, I'll look at it20:17
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GAN900Jartza, please tweet that.20:27
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JartzaGAN900: I don't use twitter :P20:34
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GAN900Jartza, then register just to tweet that.20:34
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andre__lcuk, desktop summit is going well, but what should be cross platform apps?20:38
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andre__(missed the Community Office meeting as the network was down, as usual at conferences)20:39
lcukandre__, apps which help keep your mobile and household updated20:39
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lcuklike the calendar etc20:39
andre__lcuk, maybe in talks that I didn't attend. :-P20:39
lcukwith more and more desktops getting touchscreens20:39
lcukandre__, well what good stuff have you seen?20:40
andre__calendar? I cannot imagine to have that cross-desktop with backends like akonadi and evo-data-server...20:40
andre__lcuk, I saw how to make a toaster from scratch by starting to search for copper in old mines20:40
andre__that was the most interesting talk.20:40
andre__(what I wanted to express: *really* from scratch)20:40
lcukhaha nice20:41
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andre__lcuk, but apart from that, probably look out for #desktopsummit and #ds2011 on the microblogging services, or read planet kde and planet gnome...20:41
lcukandre__, difference between imagining and have a friendly set of apps which end users can configure etc20:41
thiagoandre__: it wasn't down for me, but it was disconnecting too often20:42
lcukandre__, I have been doing20:42
RST38hGentlemen, could someone help me with QMainWindows?20:42
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andre__thiago, at least for my N900 it didn't work at all today20:42
RST38hCan I have more than one in my app? If not, how can I safely swap content in the same QMainWindow?20:42
thiagomy laptop had to try for 5 minutes before it associated20:42
andre__thiago, urgh20:42
thiagothe N900 isn't that patient20:42
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andre__and my little N900 is not as strong as your big laptop :-(20:43
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weggi_RST38h: see http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qmainwindow.html#setCentralWidget20:44
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lcukthiago, what has been your favourite session so far?20:45
RST38hweggi: thank you, I have used this function, it crashes when I switch back to my original widget with setCentralwidget()20:45
weggi_Did you notice that setCentralWidget takes ownership of the widget you pass to it?20:46
RST38hyes.20:46
weggi_So it will be deleted after you set new central widget20:46
thiagolcuk: personally, I was most paying attention to the one on the KDE 5 Frameworks20:46
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thiagolcuk: but I quite liked the Massif visualiser one20:47
thiagolcuk: keynotes were quite interesting20:47
weggi_RST38h: And when you "switch back" you have to create new instance of your original content.20:47
thiagoand, of course, Dirk Hohndel's keynote :-)20:47
lcukthiago, there has been quite some interest in kde on harmattan20:47
thiagoyup20:47
thiagodid you see contour?20:47
* thiago was at the cross-platform development limitations20:47
lcuknope, what is that20:47
thiagothe new plasma-tablet activities20:48
lcukcool, can they work on meego too?20:49
thiagoaseigo was showing a tablet with plasma-tablet running on meego20:49
thiagofind him :-)20:49
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lcuk\o/20:49
lcukI am not at the conf20:49
thiagothere must be videos20:49
thiagoit clearly showed that the Qt graphics performance on Atom chips isn't great20:49
lcukreally?20:49
* lcuk never noticed any kind of graphics issues on ideapad20:50
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lcukrunning basically anything20:50
thiagoI think the ideapad is more powerful than the wetab or exopc20:50
lcukthe x86 branch of meego has always been high performance compared to the scraping for fps20:50
lcukon arm20:50
* lcuk remembers telling intel to slow down their chips because code was running too quick20:51
thiagohehehe20:52
lcuknfact, I probably said the same at n810 -> n900 transition20:52
thiagowe'll just put more stuff for it to do20:52
lcukyeah20:52
lcukbut if you say it is already having perf issues20:52
lcukit takes the fun out of flying towards the ceiling20:52
lcukI have seen a load of the assembly 2011 demoscene vids this weekend20:53
lcukthe sheer amount of stuff capable now with modern hardware is outstanding20:53
lcukhttp://archive.assembly.org/201120:53
lcukthe 4k coder porn video is amusing20:54
lcukespecially for technical ability20:54
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thiagolcuk: the point is that you see that it's not smooth20:55
thiagowe've known for long that Qt has some kind of issue with Intel chips20:55
RST38hweggi: aha20:56
thiagobut of course, no one has bothered to optimise for that, only SGX20:56
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lcukthiago, best thing in the #harmattan channel at the moment is the sharing of optimisation tips20:57
lcukfor qml especially20:57
lcukfinding models which work well20:57
lcukmethods and simplifications etc20:58
lcukthiago, was Qt not optimised already for x86?20:58
lcuksince for longest time that was the principle target20:58
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lcukor did that follow mhz race and expect 3ghz multicore doofers?20:59
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RST38hweggi: Is there somekind of reference counting in QWidgets to let me keep the original QWidget?21:00
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thiagolcuk: x86 yes21:01
thiagolcuk: Intel graphics chips, no21:01
thiagoin the Oslo office, everyone has NVidia chips, except for the newest Sandybridge21:02
thiagoand when graphics performance began to be noticed, that was Nokia time already so SGX was the target21:02
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weggi_RST38h: No, but you can create a container widget that will be always the central widget. Then you can add / remove childs to that container widget.21:03
weggi_RST38h: btw. One solution could set central widget's parent to null after calling setCentralWidget21:05
RST38hweggi: Ah, will this work???21:06
weggi_Something like: setCentralWidget(widget); widget->setParent(0);21:06
RST38hthis will not remove the downward ownership though, right?21:07
weggi_But in this case you have to take care of deallocation of the object.21:07
weggi_No, it only affects to widget's parent, not to it's childs.21:08
lcukthiago, understood entirely21:09
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RST38hweggi: I have no problem deallocating it of course21:14
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weggi_RST38h: Sorry for my inaccurate instructions. You have to remove widget's parent just before you set a new central widget.21:29
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RST38hweggi: of course, I understood that much21:32
RST38hweggi: done. currently debuggin a few minor followup issues21:33
RST38h(as in my ProcessMessages() function screaming "QUIT NOW!" when it does not see the parent window)21:33
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gandhijee_hey, is there an IRC room for the weTab?21:34
gandhijee_the TS had a firmware update pushed to it, and now it doesn't respond to input21:34
berndhsgandhijee_: yes, there is #wetab over on devnode.net21:35
gandhijee_berndhs: thank you, is it in german or english?21:35
berndhslast time I looked it was empty21:35
gandhijee_yeah21:36
berndhsso either german or english will work equally bad21:36
gandhijee_i just noticed that =/21:36
berndhsbut its been a few weeks, maybe there are people there now21:36
gandhijee_oh wow, seems like i broke the TS pretty bad21:37
gandhijee_=/ this is not good21:37
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lcukgood evening lardman \o21:51
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lardmanevening lcuk21:51
lardmannot out burning cars this evening? ;)21:51
lcuklardman, did I see that you were pondering text recognition?21:51
lcuklardman, nope21:52
lardmanyes am planning on adding a pluging to photoanalyser21:52
lcukoh nice21:52
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lcukso you can barcode and double check by reading the label too21:52
lardmanyes that would work, equally one could hook up a translator and translate a menu, etc21:53
lcuklardman, I think I worked out a way to do positional mapping of devices21:53
lcukwithout needing camera at all!21:53
lardmanoh cool, how?21:53
lardmansound?21:53
lcukif you put the devices down on a table, and draw a curve across all of them21:53
lcukwhere the curve leaves and joins screens, you can use those as pivot points21:54
lcukand map based on it21:54
SpeedEvilhmm21:54
berndhs or you could take the CosmoHill approach, throw the phones at things, measure the timing, and to triangulation21:54
lardmanyou assume that they all all firmly mounted to the table then?21:54
CosmoHill^.^21:54
lcukbut I am pondering whether Nokia will send me 9 N9's to test this21:55
lcuklardman, lol21:55
lcuklol berndhs21:55
lcuklardman, they remain in good enough position to be able to use the layout21:55
* SpeedEvil imagines a rain of tumbling n9s presenting a coherent image.21:55
lcukfor drawing pictures or playing games21:55
lcukSpeedEvil, I did try to work out that sort of thing21:55
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lardmanlcuk: I wonder if you could do some sort of automated orientation recognition of some object you hold in front of them?21:56
lcuklardman, would look cool in store if all the display models were cooperating and showing bigger picture21:56
lcuklardman, all the camera versions I tried would work21:56
lcukI have that now, inverted AR - based on a triple set of green light spots21:57
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lcukbut I encountered touchscreen devices without cameras etc21:57
lardmanah ok21:57
lcukso the only other way is... show barcode on all devices, take a photo and use that for the map21:57
lcukhence all the questions over the years about using mbarcode to detect multiple barcodes at same time21:57
lcuk;)21:57
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lardmanI'd not bother with barcode as you don't need much data21:58
lcukthe QR codes would work well21:58
lardmanperhaps 3 coloured bars, large, would hold sufficient data for a fair few devices, etc21:58
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lcuklardman, you only need a few bytes of detail and QR codes scale well21:59
lcukusername,ipaddress21:59
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lcukif they were on adhoc network it would be awesome21:59
* lcuk still bemoans this other aspect lacking from meego atm21:59
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lardmanyeah, but you need to be able to resolve the QR code, your "barcode" only needs to hold sufficient bits to identify each device, which won't be many21:59
lcuksure22:00
* lcuk might make tricode then22:00
lcukthe 3 green dots but then putting info in the vertex between them ;)22:01
lardmancheck number of combos though - 3x3x3 combinations = 27 devices22:01
lardmanI was thinking of something that's easy to decode though22:01
lcukwell technically after I learnt about how the normal 1d barcodes work22:02
lcukthey can simply be 3 1d codes between the verteces22:02
wazdcan anybody point me into latest meego tablet release? Especially one with new panels design :P22:02
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lardmanbut again that means the camera needs to be able to resolve each barcode, which means rather high mpix22:02
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lcuklardman, details!22:03
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lcuki could do the same algorithm using 320*240 ;)22:03
lardmana few blocks of colour, e.g. 3 or 4 bars full screen would be easy to see and decode22:03
lcukjust need to pan across the entire surface22:03
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lcukyeah22:03
lardmanyeah but then you complicate things by needing to perform image correlation to work out direction of travel, and to join the loop up22:03
lcuklardman, hence the solution qr codes do22:04
lcukby having 4 corners for relationships22:04
lcuk322:04
lcuksorry22:04
toprohi, can anyone tell me how the .packages file in image directories gets generated, please?22:04
lardmanlcuk: not quite, QR code blocks are to orientate the barcode, but your issue is that if you need to pan across the devices because your video res is too low to resolve the barcodes in all at once, you then need to combine that data into a composite image that shows them all22:06
lcuklardman, sure, the 320*240 was over the top22:06
lardmansounds like hassle if you could avoid it by using a larger code that can be seen in one photo22:06
lcukI have crystal clear photographs showing a various number of resolvable codes22:06
lcukit is fairly trivial for devices22:07
lcukand for sure, using entire screen to show the code is right22:07
lcuki just thought qr codes because they were already the right shape ;)22:07
lardman:)22:07
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lardmanOverkill though as even a small one will hold 10 bytes' worth of data, which is a lot of individual devices!22:09
lardman2^(8*10)-1 - is that right?22:10
lardmananyway, a fair few ;)22:10
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lcuklol lardman22:19
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lcuklardman, will have to test those specs at te next meego meetup!22:26
lardmanwell if Nokia sell that many devices I'll be rather impressed ;)22:28
lcukso will Nokia!22:29
lardmanwell as there are something like 10^80 atoms in the observable universe, I'd hate to be in charge of device distribution for the devices that will need to spread beyond the edge ;)22:31
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lcukwell texrat was just talking about a new nokia job he applied for22:32
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lcukperhaps delivery to the cafe at the end of the universe ;)22:32
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lardman:)22:34
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elpurican anyone point me to information on how to access the photo thumbnails in harmattan?22:37
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lcukelpuri, hm no, #harmattan is the canonical channel for odd specific questions such as this22:40
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elpurithanks22:42
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