IRC log of #meego for Thursday, 2011-07-28

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* timeless pokes andre__ or DawnFoster 01:18
* timeless double pokes DawnFoster 01:18
* CosmoHill pokes timeless for personal amusement01:19
* timeless teehees01:20
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timelessooh, that tickles01:20
timelesshow's it going?01:20
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CosmoHillit varies01:20
CosmoHillmonday was an awesome day that I loved01:20
CosmoHilltoday has been meh, just dossing about on the internet01:20
* timeless is old as of yesterday01:21
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CosmoHillyou mean you had your 29th birthday again?01:21
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timelessyeah, 3rd time01:21
CosmoHillmy cousin turned to me on my 20th and went "your old now"01:22
CosmoHillI think I said "at least I don't have 5 years of high school to do"01:22
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timelessCanada got rid of grade 13 a while back01:23
timelesss/Canada/Ontario/01:23
CosmoHillshe had just started high school iirc01:23
timeless(that was 2003)01:24
timelesshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Academic_Credit fwiw01:24
CosmoHillhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_England01:24
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timelessyeah, yopu guys are special :)01:26
timelesss/p//01:26
timelessmiddle school too early01:26
CosmoHillmiddle school?01:26
CosmoHillwe don't have it at this part of the country01:27
timelesswhich flavor are you in?01:27
timelessi was reading the far right column, it was the only one i saw w/ 5 years of HS01:27
CosmoHillwe have the far left01:28
timeless> Any Part B success criteria that refer to authors only apply during authoring sessions.01:28
DawnFostertimeless: pong01:29
* timeless can't figure out how to count to 5 on the far left, but ok...01:29
timelessDawnFoster: one sec01:29
timelessDawnFoster: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18038#c1001:29
MeeGoBotBug 18038 nor, Low, ---, kevron_m_rees, VERI WONTFIX, Bluetooth icon should either not be present or clearly indicate it won't work when no bluetooth adap01:29
timelesscan you please take a wet trout to that commenter01:29
timeless(a cluebat might be necessary, but perhaps intel doesn't approve)01:30
timelessi'm 99% certain that the commenter did not read:01:30
timeless1. The Bug Status01:30
timeless2. The Bug Summary01:30
timeless3. Comment 0, aka The Bug Report01:30
timeless(or perhaps "The Bug Description")01:31
timelessignoring that, which is hard, but... I don't believe that the comment clearly indicates *which* thing disappears and I'm fairly certain that the comment does not indicate the hardware being tested01:32
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timeless... the bug is requesting that Control Panel not have a Bluetooth icon if there's no Bluetooth adapter01:32
DawnFosterI'd ignore him01:33
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timelessI believe the clueless commenter indicated that disabling Bluetooth causes an icon at the top of the Display to disappear01:33
timelessDawnFoster: sadly, he changed the bug status from RESOLVED WONTFIX to VERIFIED...01:33
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DawnFosternever heard of him before, and it's pretty clear that he doesn't really know what he's talking about :)01:33
DawnFosterhmmm01:33
timelessif he didn't deal damage to the bug report's status, i'd ignore him01:33
timelessbut he did01:33
timelesscomment 8 is also damaging and never responded to comment 901:33
andyrosstimeless: bluetooth should work on an exopc.  What does "hcitool dev" tell you in a console?01:34
timelessandyross: it did not work on the devices using the stack that was avaiable in SF01:34
timelessand that's absolutely irrelevant01:34
timelessplease understand that01:34
timelessthe steps are:01:34
timeless1. have a device with no functional bluetooth adapter01:34
timeless2. expect not to see useless icons in settings01:35
DawnFosterI reopened it :)01:35
timelessDawnFoster: thanks01:35
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timelessandyross: there will be devices that won't have bluetooth01:35
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timelessjust because the exopc technically has bluetooth doesn't mean that the software stack shouldn't not be stupid when it encounters such a device01:35
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andyrossI know this isn't relevant to your bug vs. settings, but the premise is wrong: there should be a device present on that hardware, and it should work.  There were a few gotchas a while back with a patch being dropped, and one with the firmware not being present.  But I'm pretty sure that was all sorted out.01:36
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timeless?01:36
timelessthe premise is clear in the summary01:36
timeless> Bluetooth icon should either not be present or clearly indicate it won't work when no bluetooth adapter is present01:36
timelessthe summary does not mention exopc01:36
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andyrossFine fine.  I thought you were mostly complaining about bluetooth.  I'll leave your beef with settings and QA to others.01:37
timelessandyross: right, i'm not complaining about bluetooth, just settings and QA01:37
timelessif i wanted to complain about bluetooth, i would have filed a bug somewhere near bluetooth01:37
timelessbut it'd be stupid since i got a release note that clearly listed bluetooth as not working :)01:38
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wmaroneVenemo: are you there?02:07
Venemowmarone, yes02:07
wmaroneok, can you add smokku to the founders list for #cordia and turn off +m?02:08
wmaroneit's rather quiet in there ;)02:08
Venemowmarone, I already added him to the necessary privileges02:08
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wmaroneah, can you -m it anyway?02:09
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berndhsthe cordia stuff focuses on Hildon ?02:15
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wmaronecordia uses hildon, yes02:16
wmaroneit's based on hildon-desktop after all02:16
berndhsso its maemo5++ --> meego or something02:16
wmaronewell, it's meego. just the UX uses hildon/gtk3 instead of Qt02:17
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berndhsyeah02:18
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nemequis conic still alive? I'm wonder how to handle https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=602578 and I can't seem to find any web sites, git repositories, etc...02:31
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Venemowmarone, '-m'?02:37
wmaronewhat smoku just did ;)02:37
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Venemowmarone, and what is it good for?02:40
wmaronewell, when a channel is +m it is muted for all but operators and people with +v set by the operators02:42
Venemoah, that sounds very wrong02:43
wmaroneeh, I think it's just chanserv with some odd defaults02:43
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wmaroneand it has its purposes02:43
Venemomhm02:44
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CosmoHillcyas02:50
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Termanamorning02:57
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bonbinkermorning sir03:21
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Elleolbt / X-Fade: all current build attempts appear to be failing with: "connect to store-vlan60.pub.in.meego.com:5352: Network is unreachable" (or some variation thereof)04:00
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meiviis it me or is meego 1.2's repo broken..04:17
meivicant install gstreamer-plugins04:18
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nomoso... I tested meego with netbook ux just now. first I was like: "wow, boots fast!" then I was like "where is the window list... oh it's this zone-thingy, arkward but I could live with that" then I was like: "hey isn't banshee a mono app? wtf?" then i was like: "tracker? indexing it all? whats next, sharing it?" then I was like: "fuck that shit!"04:24
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Corn_manWait what?04:27
TSCHAKeeenomo: so, let me get this straight...04:29
TSCHAKeeenomo: you came in here just to troll?04:29
TSCHAKeeenomo: if i may borrow your phrase here...FUCK THAT SHIT!04:29
TSCHAKeee;)04:29
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Corn_manTSCHAKeee I don't understand what he said.04:30
Corn_manIt's hard reading idiot.04:30
TSCHAKeeeyeah.04:30
TSCHAKeeeseems as if he's mad on religious grounds.04:30
TSCHAKeeeor just simply he doesn't like the software selection.04:30
TSCHAKeeesome people are funny.04:31
Corn_manIf he doesn't like meego I suggest he should try linux mint.04:31
TSCHAKeeeyeah, choice is a good thing04:31
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jcharpakisn't banshee standard on linux mint as well? :)04:32
Corn_manYes.04:32
TSCHAKeeei really could care less04:32
TSCHAKeeefor me, MeeGo is a base system for me to do research work04:32
TSCHAKeeei'm making my own appliances04:33
TSCHAKeeeand MeeGo is perfect for that.04:33
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Corn_manMeeGo looks like it would be awesome for tablets.04:39
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vgradeTSCHAKeee, \o04:39
TSCHAKeeehey vgrade!04:40
vgradehows things04:40
vgradeget your 95004:40
TSCHAKeeefantastic, and yes04:40
TSCHAKeeewe've been going full steam ahead on qOrbiter04:40
TSCHAKeeeone sec04:40
vgradeI've been working trimslice, http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/07/nvidia-meego-battle-ground/04:41
vgradenvidia sent the hardfp drivers I needed04:41
TSCHAKeeevgrade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hz-InWQX4U :)04:42
TSCHAKeeeoh wow nice04:42
TSCHAKeeethat thing is iiittty bitty04:42
TSCHAKeeeas for me, I've been testing our stuff on my Archos 9 and N950 side by side04:42
nomowell... that wasn't trolling by the way. that was pretty much my expirence from "wow!" to NonononNOOOO!!! in 10 Minutes. Some digging in "Meego World" I also found some more seriously bad things about this project, and I wonder what you guys are up to?04:42
TSCHAKeeenomo: we're working.04:43
Corn_manI'm toying with os's.04:43
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jcharpakjust out of curisosity, how likely is a fully functional meego on an archos 43?04:44
* TSCHAKeee is a core dev for LinuxMCE, and is working on our next generation UI engine (and UI)04:44
TSCHAKeeejcharpak: you'd probably want to ask vgrade.04:45
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jcharpakit was an open question :)04:46
vgradeTSCHAKeee, great progress. Qt looks to be all its cracked up to be04:46
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jcharpakso vgrade, meego on archos43?04:47
nomoOh, archos 43? very much unlikely. the openaos project might manage something in the near future, but I would expect it to be broken on all ends (like battery or wifi).04:47
vgradejcharpak, not familiar with the 4304:48
vgradewhat OS does it ship with04:48
TSCHAKeeenomo: perhaps you would leave that to someone who actually spends his days doing hardware adaptation of our project.04:48
jcharpakandroid 2.2 pretty stock as far as I know04:48
TSCHAKeeevgrade: i'm loving it, and the N950 hardware is buttery smooth.04:48
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nomowhere was my statement wrong?04:49
jcharpaksame tech as a droid x or a n900 more or less04:49
TSCHAKeeejcharpak: if we knew what chipsets were available, we could tell you better.04:50
TSCHAKeeejcharpak: Archos has actually been very lassaez faire as to allowing other firmware on their devices04:50
jcharpakthe os can be swaped with a very basic linux04:50
wmaronejcharpak: omap3?04:50
jcharpakbut doing so violates your warranty...04:51
TSCHAKeeejcharpak: try taking one of the existing adaptation kickstarts and see how far you get.04:51
Corn_manFor some reason I was thinking of arch linux.04:51
vgradejcharpak, sounds like you would be able to get a long way to getting a functioning device04:51
vgradeas always the devil is in the detail04:51
jcharpak...and apparntly watermarks the device somehow so they know you did it04:51
vgradejcharpak, hardware adaptation is dangerous04:51
TSCHAKeeeI've been able to get al the hardware working on my Archos 9, for example (and it is a GMA500 x86, which is a hairy beast to get running correctly.)04:51
TSCHAKeeei'm still hoping that Intel will release an EMGD with a working VA API at some point.04:52
jcharpakoy the one intel video driver that doesn't play nice oon linux, right?04:52
TSCHAKeee(but OpenGL/GLES and 2D work fantastic with it.)04:52
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TSCHAKeeeoh it plays nice, you just have to match the environment it requires04:53
vgradejcharpak, never bricked anything so far, but there will be a first time04:53
TSCHAKeeecurrently they build their driver for MeeGo04:53
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TSCHAKeeeand Fedora04:53
jcharpaknot ubuntu/debian/mint?04:53
TSCHAKeeebut mainly, you have to use specific versions of Xorg04:53
vgradeTSCHAKeee, fedora have an EMGD package now04:53
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TSCHAKeeejcharpak: if you match the Xorg, then have at it.04:53
TSCHAKeeeEMGD is a driver package intended for hardware OEMs04:54
TSCHAKeeeit's not meant for end users at all04:54
TSCHAKeeeso they really don't give a damn if an end user can use it.04:54
TSCHAKeeereally, it's main target is In-Vehicle-Infotainment computers.04:54
jcharpaklike nvidia and ancient nv15 drivers :)04:55
jcharpak(yes I still have a 10 year old computer with a geoforce2 gts or whatever nvidis's 2nd gen video card was called)04:56
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meivi...anyone else having trouble installing gstreamer plugins ?05:00
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nomoi think i read just something that meego doesn't include that, because it's a oem thing to or something like that.05:02
nomobut found a vlc howto also.05:02
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nomoI thought about how to make meego better. but that I realized I'd propose debian but being faster, so I don't. by the way, have you ever thought about doing everything 3d, opengl and stuff isn't all that wise because of the lack of working 3d on linux?05:09
jcharpak3d works fine on x86 nvidia and amd and most intel05:10
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jcharpakit's the tablet/handset linux drivers where it's spotty05:11
nomothats why I am saying it. (oh and x86 is better but also not exactly all flowers and sunshine and stuff)05:13
nomojcharpak: about the archos from before. you realize that the archos kernel is in a pretty bad shape for general linux usage? android might be fine, but meego/ ubuntu/whatever will give you a pretty bad time trying.05:16
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jcharpakI know that there was a debian for archos project that looked like it was making progress05:18
nomoyou shouldn't belive in openaos stuff like that. if they say XYZ is "working" then they mean something like "50-70% working" or "I looks like it might, but actually doesn't".05:20
Corn_manI need to break the link of thinking archos = arch linux.05:21
jcharpakthe alternative os is openaos05:21
jcharpakyou multiboot that and from there can install other os's05:22
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nomowrong. it's SDE with angstrom linux rootfs. openaos is the project wich lets you multiboot stuff, they also trying to make other linux distos work on archos devices, but as far as I can tell, they fail.05:25
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nomohey about meego... don't you think that suse OBS is also fail? wherever I look it just sucks.05:28
TSCHAKeeecare to actually back that up with some facts?05:29
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TSCHAKeeei mean...SuSE manages to build what amounts to a distribution with the HIGHEST package count and the lowest package regression count i've EVER seen in a distribution, EVER.05:29
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TSCHAKeeeit's a build system, if it builds packages, and doesn't crash, it does its job.05:30
berndhsbuilds packages for all interesting distro targets, very convenient05:31
nomoas long you don't try to combine that packages to something as a useable distro, that is.05:31
Corn_manI like OpenSUSE.05:31
TSCHAKeeenomo: seriously, are you actually going to back those statements up? because right now, you're looking like a troll.05:32
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nomoto much of a pain, because my english sucks. if it works for you, fine it's not all that bad then but I can't see why.05:35
berndhsnomo: you're feeling way too negative about everything. Have some tea, or a good beer, or some ice cream. Something pleasant.05:37
Corn_manI need a copy of hiew.05:37
berndhsi need a faster network :)05:37
Corn_manTry motel internet05:38
Corn_manDial up speeds05:38
Corn_man"High speed" My ass.05:38
jcharpakouch05:38
berndhsoh just my local net is too slow, 100Mbit card in the middle somewhere, its a pain to copy 120 GB05:38
jcharpakis it free at least?05:39
Corn_manyes05:39
Corn_man50 kb/s Not worth even 1 dollar a gb/ Assuming you could get a gb by the time your stay is done.05:40
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jcharpakshoould jjust use an n900, n950, n9 whahever :)05:41
Corn_manAny RTOS's you guys recommend?05:43
SpeedEvilYou can get most of a gig a day on dialup05:44
Corn_manSpeedEvil I was being sarcastic.05:44
* SpeedEvil used to download a lot over dialup.05:44
jcharpak"yes but who would want to" :)05:45
jcharpakI still remember downloading windows updates over dialup...PAINFUL05:46
nomowon't ISPs nowadays disrupt or disconnect dail-up connections whenever it looks like it's acually beeing used?05:46
SpeedEvilhmm05:47
Corn_manDoubt it.05:47
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Corn_manGonna goto bed05:49
Corn_manG'nite05:49
jcharpaknight!05:49
berndhsnight05:50
Corn_manBe back in the morning05:50
meivi)= my internship sucks05:50
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Termanajcharpak, updates? Meaning more than one? You only need one update to Windows05:50
TermanaAn update to a Linux distro05:50
Termanaba dum tss :p05:50
berndhsmeivi: we wont tell your employer thats not paying you :)05:51
jcharpakwell yeah major reason I switched to dapper drake05:51
meiviberndhs, yea, thanks05:51
jcharpakof course I then got cablle modemm like a month later :)05:51
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Termanameivi, that's not something you go and tell a room full of employees at the same company. That is, if your whois information is anything to go by05:54
SpeedEvil:)05:55
meiviYea, i know my proxy is listed. Still, im bored05:55
SpeedEvilInternships - unpaid - is a fairly toxic concept.05:56
meiviactually im getting paid..05:56
TermanaUnpaid internships are illegal in Australia, I thought there would be some sort of the same thing in the US05:56
meivican anyone help me with the gstreamer thing...05:57
Termanameivi, well, it's like 11pm there at the moment isn't it? Is that possibly why you are bored? :p05:57
meivinope, 11 am here05:58
jcharpakwell it's 11:00 PM here. Good Night All!06:00
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araujommm...06:46
araujoanybody knows if the meego netbook version is or recently was in some freeze mode state?06:47
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Stskeeps  /last stsk07:04
Stskeeps  /last stsk07:04
Stskeeps..07:04
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* dm8tbr passes Stskeeps a jug of espresso07:14
Stskeepsthanks07:14
TermanaStskeeps, not a terminal window :p07:14
Termana(on reflection that doesn't look like something you would be doing in a terminal window and also since you irssi, that would probably be incorrect anyway)07:16
Termanayou use*07:16
Stskeepsirssi has /last :P07:16
Stskeepsvery useful for seeing what highlighted you07:16
StskeepsUlf^: was already asleep at that point :)07:17
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twoboxenquestion for you folks… in the qt project file, what is maemo6 harmattans make spec?  I see maemo5, symbian, unix, etc07:57
twoboxenmeego, maemo6, harmattan, etc don't work07:58
sofarask in #harmattan ?07:58
twoboxenk07:58
* Stskeeps stretches08:02
* sofar fiddles with bootchart08:02
Stskeepsgood thing about summers: way more time to actually stablize meego core as everyone's gone :P08:04
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Bostikmorning08:14
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Stskeepsmorn08:15
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sofarStskeeps: since all the kernels are fubar, plenty to do :/08:23
Stskeeps:nod:08:25
Stskeepswhen sage's back we'll get the core-armv7hl images up and running so we can start verifying things work there08:26
Stskeepsi think i'm on some ancient snapshot08:26
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sofaralright, I prettified bootchart some more08:27
RST38hEven funnier: QtSDK does not let me create a Windows app target08:27
sofarthe pss option now also paints a top #10 PSS users table at the top08:27
RST38hOnly offers Harmattan, then fails in dh_make08:27
sofarand the labels should be more readable08:27
Stskeepscool08:28
sofaralso08:28
sofarStskeeps: I now calculate the size properly so you can use chrome to super-fast display them properly08:28
sofarchrome has an insanely good svg rendering engine08:28
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Stskeeps:nod:08:29
RST38hOk, uninstalling QtSDK. Unusable.08:29
* Stskeeps tries to find out why xbmc configure commits suicide mid-configure08:29
sofarhttp://foo-projects.org/~sofar/bootchart-20110727-2219.svg08:29
sofarxbmc isn't easy to build08:29
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Stskeepsyeah.. but it thinks sizeof int is 008:30
Stskeepswhich is pretty fun08:30
sofarhaha08:30
sofarn900 data types ;)08:30
RST38hOh, it gets even funnier: instead of uninstalling asrequested, this thing offers you to install more features08:30
Stskeepssofar: it would certainly explain memory usage ;)08:31
ukasnames08:33
ukasfail08:33
sofarukas: ?08:33
Stskeepsmissing / ;)08:33
* RST38h has to give QtSDK one final credit: after some kicking it uninstalled cleanly, without leaving a mess08:33
sofarah08:33
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ukasyeah08:34
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sofarStskeeps: pss graph is costly though... my i7 can only do 25 samples per second taking PSS data... on an atom you're down to 1-2 samples per second doing the PSS graph :)08:36
* sofar goes to do a full boot and then get a beer08:37
Stskeepson arm you'd probably get a split second ;)08:38
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sofarooo burn08:48
sofarrewinddir(proc); is hung08:48
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* sofar gives up on rewinddir and is off08:55
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Venemomorning09:36
Venemowill MeeGo run on a Raspberry Pi? http://www.raspberrypi.org/09:36
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Stskeepsno, armv609:40
Stskeepsit would run a build of meego for armv6 yes but wouldn't be compliant09:40
Venemothis is ARM1109:40
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Venemowhy wouldn't it be compliant?09:40
VenemoI didn't know that ARMv7 was required for compliance09:41
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Stskeepsit is09:42
Venemomeh09:42
Stskeepsthe argument is that apps are built for armv7-a09:42
Stskeepsso obviously something that can't run the apps..09:43
Venemowell, in this specific case, I don't really care about compliance. :P I mean, if it's an ARMv6 CPU, then it will never be compliant anyway09:43
Stskeeps:nod:09:43
VenemoI'm thinking of getting one of these devices and I want to use it as a "personal" server, running version control of the projects that I can't put onto Gitorious09:44
Venemoand I was wondering whether I should try using MeeGo on it, or just use the ARM version of Fedora09:44
Stskeepsi have an armv6 build laying about of meego09:45
Venemothe one that you built for the N8x0 devices?09:45
Stskeepsyeah09:45
Stskeepshaven't gotten around to actually trying it yet09:45
Stskeeps:P09:45
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Venemohehe09:45
Stskeepsbut yeah, seems like a nice computer09:46
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Venemoso, this ARM11 thing will run ARMv6... I didn't know that yet either09:46
Stskeepsthe trimslice just went up in interest too09:46
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vvaltoneI was just very disappointed the trimslice sata port is usb attached09:48
vvaltoneand the lack of NEON in Tegra2 is annoying09:49
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vvaltoneand you can get Toshiba AC100's quite cheaply in comparison09:51
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aleksander_mwhich would be the proper steps to run a graphic-less MeeGo build under qemu/kvm? should I try to follow the 1.1 doc steps to configure qemu runtimes with mad-admin and use QEMU_NOGRAPHIC? or should I just create a raw  core-ia32-base image and run it under kvm/qemu?10:50
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nchauvethello, where can I download the meego 1.2.0.1 core update tar.gz ?12:30
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lcukhm quiet here today12:59
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rastershhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh13:02
rastertoo much noise!13:02
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lcukStskeeps, the talk of compliance etc13:22
lcukit shocked people around harmattan when I mentioned fremantle debs ran happily in it13:23
Stskeepsermm.. when was that13:23
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lcukearlier this morning with venemo talking about arch for a device13:24
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Stskeepsit will run for a limited subset that doesn't pass float values13:27
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SpeedEvilIs it an inherent property of the processor that can't be trapped, and you need to run qemu - or can you in principle trap on it, and handle it differently, ala-38713:30
StskeepsSpeedEvil: it puts floating point values in floating point registers, instead of integer13:30
lcukStskeeps, so it is a speed thing rather than incompatability?13:30
Stskeepsincompatibility13:31
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lcukso softfp puts arguments on (d0,d1) and calls into harpfp compiled library which expects them in (fp0,fp1) so gets garbage instead13:32
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Stskeepsright13:33
lcukand since there is no way to tell the difference for the callee it will not work13:33
lcukthat explains why libliqbase and liqbook worked (for instance)13:33
lcukthe low level dependencies of liqbase are all simple int functions13:33
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lcukand then the lib itself gets called from softfp app13:34
* lcuk understands now where I didn't before13:34
SpeedEvilYuk.13:34
lcukbut I am sure I use stuff from clib13:34
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SpeedEvilSo you basically'd need to run qemu.13:34
lcukor libc or whatever13:34
SpeedEvilUmm. Or ld_preloaded translation libraries that mangle in the right way?13:35
lcukfor some reason my fingers type harpfp13:35
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CosmoHilllcuk: .o/13:36
lcukmorning CosmoHill \o13:36
lcukSpeedEvil, you just need the whole stack to be compiled with the correct kind of mangling13:37
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* CosmoHill quickly plugs the cable back in13:38
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lcukStskeeps, on my meego ideapad I am enjoying reading books13:39
lcukand surprisingly, droid fonts are readable13:39
* lcuk prefers Nokia sans though13:40
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lcukI should try Pure on it13:40
lcukbut we need to explicitly ask for permission from Nokia to include it in an image13:40
timophlcuk: what was the name of the community game again? (forgot already :) )13:41
lcuktimoph, community game?13:41
timophthe meego.com version of karma13:41
timophthing13:41
lcukoh, the MeeGoVerse!13:41
timophthat's it!13:42
* lcuk reads too much scifi!13:42
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timophwas thinking about the motivation to having it13:42
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/MeeGoVerse13:42
lcuktimoph, it was just growing based on the idea that MeeGo involvemenet is not much different to a MMORPG13:43
timophIMO it's a good way to introduce different areas in meego that one can contribute to, etc.13:43
SpeedEvilWhy did I think of McGonagall when meegoverse was mentioned.13:43
lcukbug triaging and stuff is like mining in WoW13:43
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lcuktimoph, :D13:43
timophso we don't end up like maemo.org where there's a ton of people who think tmo == the community13:43
lcukindeed13:44
CosmoHilltmo?13:44
timophtalk.maemo.org13:44
lcukor likewise just irc or mailing list13:44
CosmoHillisn't that a bad place?13:44
lcukexpansion of skills13:44
lcuktmo is awesome13:44
timoph:)13:44
timophat least used to be13:44
lcukit can be13:44
CosmoHillwait, forums.nokia << that's the bad place13:44
timophtrue13:44
lcukit depends on the thread13:44
timophI pretty much gave up on it13:45
timophjust too much noise13:45
lcukStskeeps did, but he is still addicted13:45
* CosmoHill quit a forum twice, he's not admin on it13:45
timoph:)13:45
CosmoHillnow*13:45
timophhehe13:45
* lcuk can smell fire, brb13:45
timophwell I do read it every once in a while13:46
CosmoHillif he times out ....13:46
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lcukCosmoHill, lol13:54
timophlcuk: managed to put out the fire?13:54
lcuknot near us13:54
lcukcould just smell it13:54
timophah. I thought you were cooking :p13:54
lcukthat would indeed be worse13:55
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* lcuk does not leave kitchen when cooking as general rule13:55
arfollanyone here have any idea when hyperthreading on 1155 i7 was supported in the kernel?13:55
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timophlcuk: yet again you dominate the irc stats on the community metrics :)13:56
lcuktimoph, I will stop asking questions then!13:57
timoph10 x my lines :)13:57
lcuktimoph, the stats are a bit wibbly though13:58
lcukI think they are only this channel13:58
timoph"lcuk yelled 64 times"13:58
timophyep13:58
lcukit is just I prefer talking here to try and include most folks from the meegosphere13:58
lcukI DO NOT YELL!13:58
timophdoesn't include other meego channels afaik13:58
jussilcuk: YOU LIE! :P13:59
timoph:D13:59
lcukjussi, :D13:59
SpeedEvilOr #harmattan - which is a bit debatably meego, though probably not.13:59
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timophharmattan is a bit of an gray area14:00
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lcukwell I am going to spend the afternoon with the sgx14:01
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lcukwhich is harmattan(m6) + meego patches14:01
* timoph is still waiting to be able to boot ce on it14:02
timophlcuk: btw, samegame is now available for ce in my obs home :)14:03
lcuktimoph, :D14:04
lcukI am somehow attempting to get understanding of the sgx binary and it is confusing14:04
timophtrying to sort out the tearing bug?14:05
lcukyeah14:05
lcukit annoyed me more because I found a workaround14:05
lcukactually noticed the same bug happen in harmattan14:06
timophoh14:06
lcukand in brainwave reduced the screen resolution to 800*48014:06
lcukwhich "cured" it14:06
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lcukso tried same on n900-ce14:06
lcukand liqbase works really really fast at 640*48014:06
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lcukbut there is an annoying border artifact in meego-ce and harmattan14:07
timophweird14:07
lcukand I want to get the default video working14:07
lcuksintel on n900-ce does not play14:07
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lcukso, I don't exactly know how the sgx works or how to actually do development from source rpms or obs14:08
lcukbu if I don't have a go at fixing this, no body will14:09
timophyep14:09
* lcuk rolls up sleeves and has a go14:09
lcukbbl \o14:09
timophbuild your own lightsaber14:09
timophthat's the way to go14:09
lcuki have one of those :P14:09
timopho/14:09
timoph:D14:09
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lcukand a jedi cape!14:09
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lcuklbt, lbt_hel \o14:52
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lbtta lcuk... didn't notice that14:55
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lcuklbt, where are latest shopper sources15:14
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lcukwell that was fun15:16
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lcuksgx development installation on my n950 is a bit unpractical15:17
lcukreflashing it now :P15:17
lbtlcuk: nah ... that's all QWidget based15:17
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lcuklbt, qwidget still works you know15:18
lbthave you seen the shit I'm getting in #harmattan .... no time for shopper I'm afraid ;)15:18
lcukand as far as I recall you used your own colour styling on it15:18
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lcukso should look like you designed it15:18
lbtI did15:18
lcuklbt yeah I have15:18
lbtI do want to make it work ... but want to do it "the right way"...15:19
lcukfor sure15:19
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albancstormer, px_proxy_factory_get_proxies() as implemented by pacrunner returns either "direct://" or "http://host:port" when configured manually (without a js script). It cannot return another scheme.16:37
albancstormer, does it mean it does not support secure proxy or socks?16:38
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thiagohttps proxy?16:40
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albancthe original libproxy can return a different proxy depending on the scheme of the requested URL. But pacrunner does not read the scheme of the requested URL in manual configuration: it just pick the first server.16:41
albancthiago, I think that means proxies with the CONNECT command but I'm not sure16:41
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thiago"http" proxy usually means both GET and CONNECT16:43
thiago"https" proxies would assume an SSL connection is established before the GET/CONNECT16:43
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albancthe original libproxy returns a config url as "scheme://user:passwd@proxy_host:port" where scheme is either "http" or "socks". It prefers a socks proxy if there is one. But the pacrunner libproxy only returns http16:48
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thiagosocks proxies usually can do passive (listening) connections16:50
stormeralbanc, it wont support secure proxy16:50
thiagobut http proxies are better for, well, HTTP :-)16:50
stormeralbanc, the https scheme means that the proxy supports HTTP Connect (which in reality not all do)16:50
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thiagoso the way I designed the QNetworkProxyFactory API, it gets the URL we're trying to connect to so it can decide which proxy to return16:51
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stormerthiago, well what I saying there is the design decision in libproxy16:51
thiagostormer: without CONNECT, the proxy can't do transparent connections. It's really useless.16:51
stormerthiago, well it depends on you network, you might use HTTP for HTTP, and SOCKS for https16:52
stormerthiago, the point of an HTTP proxy is mainly for caching, you can't cache HTTPs16:52
albancstormer, if the GConf contains several proxies http, ftp, socks, which one should I give to pacrunner?16:52
stormeralbanc, all of them16:53
albancstormer, with its implementation, it will return the first one only16:53
thiagostormer: usually, HTTP proxies allow CONNECT on at least port 44316:53
albancwith a http:// scheme16:53
stormeralbanc, if pacrunner is a decent implementation, it should be able to decide what to do base the scheme16:53
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stormerthiago, as I already said, that depend on the server16:54
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stormerthiago, doing random try and error is super time expensive, so going in the "let the application guess" is not best imho16:54
albancstormer, it is not because I can only give it a list of servers without specifying what kind of proxy it is, and it will return only the first one with "http://" prepended16:54
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stormeralbanc, so you mean pacrunner does not have the difference between http and https ?16:55
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albancexactly, and it does not seem to know socks16:55
stormeralbanc, that was silly since all browser make that difference16:55
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stormerThat is even more silly16:56
albancwell, there is for the manual configuration only16:56
* stormer wondering what peace of shit is pacrunner16:56
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albancI can generate on the fly javascript code which can do the right thing16:56
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albancthe script has access to the requested URL, so it's possible to do the right thing...16:57
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stormerthat would be an option, a bit expansive though16:58
albancdo you know where I can find example of javascript parsing the url to return a proxy?16:59
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stormerthose are PAC17:01
stormeralbanc, http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier_.PAC17:01
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stormeralbanc, shit, there is a bug in libproxy17:05
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albancstormer, what is the bug?17:10
stormeralbanc, so PAC does not have difference between HTTP and HTTPs, wondering if libproxy really return something different actually, don't rembember17:10
stormeralbanc, wel might not be17:10
albanclibproxy returns either "direct://" or "http://..." or "socks://..."17:11
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albancwhen the requested url is ftp or https, it still returns a "http://" proxy17:12
stormeralbanc, let me correct something, the http/https settings is decision making only, whatever http or https it is, libproxy return http://17:13
albancyes17:13
stormeralbanc, addtionnaly it can return socks4:// and socks5://17:13
albancDoes chromium and other browsers support socks*:// ?17:14
stormerso in PAC that mean you can have PROXY host:port ; SOCKS host:port; SOCKS4 host:port; SOCKS5 host:port; DIRECT17:14
stormeralbanc, yep, all browsers supports socks17:14
albancand libsoup too?17:14
stormeralbanc, some are socks5 only, some may try 5 then 4, and top one tries 5 then 4a then 4 (like glib)17:15
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stormerlibsoup should support socks17:15
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stormerbut would have to ask Danw17:16
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albancIn pacrunner, I would also have to add an "if" statement for SOCKS: http://pastebin.com/q7Ps8mJw17:21
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stormerright, it's obviously missing17:22
stormerand while your there, add SOCKS4/SOCKS5 (a MS extension)17:22
albancShould I return "socks://..." in all cases? (SOCKS, SOCKS4, SOCKS5)17:22
stormerI think it's MS, but I vagualy remember, some sys-admin came up with a PAC that worked on windows but not on libproxy, which was using that17:23
stormeralbanc, that's up to you, in libproxy we return socksX://17:23
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stormerglib supports socks:// socks4:// socks4a:// and socks5://17:23
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stormerBut tbh socks:// and socks5:// are the only one that are really used those days17:24
albancok, so better do the same17:24
stormerbeing precise will make connection faster, but changing SOCKS5 into socks:// is probably "safer"17:24
stormeras most people will assume socks517:25
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stormerand glib tries socks5 first17:25
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albancDoes QNetworkProxyFactory use libproxy and will it be fine with socksX://?17:27
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stormerthiago, ^17:28
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stormeralbanc, btw, PROXY in pac mean protocol specific proxy, so what proxy type make sense base on the protocol, which SOCKS is generic proxy17:30
stormerin the browser world, PROXY mean http17:31
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stormeras HTTP/HTTPS/GOPHER/FTP are all proxies using http dialect17:31
stormer*proxied17:31
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thiagoalbanc: no, it doesn't17:35
thiagothere's a pending merge request to add the functionality17:35
thiagobut considering we already have a pacrunner code that uses QtScript, I'd rather simply read the same files (not GConf) that store the proxy settings and use our own runner17:36
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albancfair enough. I was just wondering whether my patch would break things for non-glib users of libproxy17:37
thiagothe proxy settings should be stored somewhere central17:39
thiagopossibly even in connman17:39
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thiagoproxy settings per connection17:41
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delacwhat would be the easiest way to automatically resolve city or country the user is in? I do have geo and ip information available. The app is mostly written in QML but uses c++ too.18:27
Elleodelac: geoclue is in my repository if that's any help18:27
Elleowell, for harmattan18:28
Elleobut it shouldn't be hard to build it for something else if that's what you need18:28
delacElleo: yes, I can use geoclue, but the location info from ip is not that reliable (complete).18:29
delacElleo: can it resolve the city from geo info?18:29
Elleowell it has various geocoder backends18:30
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Elleoso presumably it should be able to18:30
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Ulf^Stskeeps?19:31
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StskeepsUlf^: yep?19:34
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lcukStskeeps, xserver-xorg-video-fbdev, are all the dependencies actually available publicly to build and work with it?19:42
* lcuk banging head on brick wall attempting to make this work19:42
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Stskeepslcuk: well, SGX drivers + headers19:46
Stskeepsbut yeah, all stuff to build it with it19:46
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lcukStskeeps, i can't even build the pristint m6 .tar.gz in scratchbox19:49
lcukprinstine19:49
* lcuk will have to get obs working with it19:49
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* lcuk goes eating ice cream19:56
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* CosmoHill is having pizza and cider tonight20:26
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timophlbt: X-Fade: c.obs dead?20:31
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* arfoll is going to follow in CosmoHill's example20:43
* CosmoHill highfives arfoll 20:43
CosmoHillmy friend should be here in a minute then we can go get the pizza and some drink for him20:43
arfollhope you're not offended i'm replacing the cider wih Cisk (local beer)20:44
lcuki am going to try and make a polyfill tonight, probably aided by alcohol20:44
CosmoHillarfoll: i wouldn't be offended unless you replaced cider with my mum20:44
CosmoHilllcuk: is the alcohol going in you or the polyfiller?20:46
arfolllol i'll remember that20:46
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lcukCosmoHill, i have been trying to do polyfill for ages20:47
CosmoHilloh, graphics, not DIY20:47
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lcukits one of those silly routines that when broken down into components is simple20:47
lcuklol yeah20:47
lcukgraphics wise20:47
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lcukeach component requires much brainwork to understand20:47
lcuktimoph, liqbook 0.4 is on the maemo repositories20:48
lcukand on my ideapad the scrolling and readability is scrumptious20:48
lcuki have read 3 books in the last few days on it20:48
lcukand it scrolls better and is actually book sized20:49
lcuki will update the itp with it20:49
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20110725_163156.liqbookreader.scr.png20:49
timophcool20:50
lcukif I can ever get over the learning curve for obs proper use and development best practices for complex (ie sgx packages) then liqbase will be trivial to port20:50
lcuktimoph, you are in the liqbase info page too :P20:51
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timoph\o/20:51
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lcuktimoph, http://liqbase.net/liq.20110728_185424.liqbookreader.scr.png20:55
* lcuk will add column buttons on right hand side spacer column for page updown20:56
timophhave I really been shouting about testing that much :p20:57
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lcuktimoph, no, but calm considered approach to the work in -qa sinks in :)21:03
timoph;)21:03
* timoph is not always that calm21:04
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lcuktimoph, me neither21:09
* lcuk was just headbanging21:09
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timophlcuk: headdesking helps every now and then :)21:10
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vgradejust seen this for the first time. Would be great to do a similar one when with MeeGo21:26
vgradehttp://vimeo.com/2676112121:26
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Stskeepslcuk being composited21:27
Stskeepseveryone getting composited21:28
Stskeeps:P21:28
w00thaha21:28
Stskeepsthe good old times21:28
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lbttimoph: mmm is it21:32
timophlbt: not anymore it seems :)21:34
lbtgood.... I'm really sorry about the flakiness at the moment.21:36
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* KaIRC wonders if http://wiki.meego.com/Devices should actually point out devices that _ship_ with MeeGo differently than ones where someone has got MeeGo to run in some way22:11
JartzaIMO it should.22:12
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KaIRCright now, it either makes the impression that a lot of devices ship with MeeGo, or that none does22:13
timophmaybe the devices should be separated there to devices with meego preinstalled and devices that can be hacked to run meego22:14
timophhacked/installed22:15
KaIRCtimoph: at least it should be pointed out somehow, yes - separate sections might even make sense (though that might give us discussions again on where N9 belongs)22:15
timoph:)22:15
dm8tbra very clear 'sort of'22:16
KaIRChehe22:16
KaIRCdm8tbr: why isn't Archos101 listed there, btw? I thought one could run MeeGo there?22:18
dm8tbrKaIRC: I believe I put gen7 there a while ago22:18
dm8tbrKaIRC: then the whole 'you have to be compliant' desaster happened22:18
dm8tbrand now I'm running/ramping-up formeego.org22:18
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KaIRCdm8tbr: oh, hmm, and all the other things on that page have easily available fully compliant versions?22:20
dm8tbrKaIRC: but yes, someone(tm) should put it there22:20
timophdm8tbr: hint - It's a wiki :p22:20
dm8tbrtimoph: yes, see my someone(tm) statement22:20
dm8tbrKaIRC: there is no such thing as a compliant meego device IMHO22:20
timophah22:21
dm8tbror better a compliant meego hardware adaptation22:21
KaIRCtimoph: umm, I see that page has a "released devices" section, which I guess someone meant to be that "shipped with MeeGo" thing but is not clearly explained22:21
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KaIRCdm8tbr: right, I meant "fully compliant MeeGo installs/images" that exist for those devices... I'm not so sure of that22:22
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KaIRCdm8tbr: and so, archos101 belongs there as much as any other, I'd guess22:22
dm8tbrI'd be willing to bet serious money that such a constellation doe not exist22:22
KaIRChehe22:22
dm8tbrespecially not for meego 1.222:23
KaIRCwhere does the N900 CE stand there from a completely official POV?22:23
dm8tbrKaIRC: I used to host the CE images on images.formeego.org when it was still called http://bug10738.openaos.org/images/22:23
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, david, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed22:23
dm8tbrKaIRC: and one requirement is that the images hosted there are non-compliant by definition and shall not be named meego-...img but mg-img22:24
KaIRCI know you had them on there some time ago, but they're advertised as "real MeeGo" after all :P22:24
dm8tbrwell it is (used to be) the reference hardware for ARM22:25
KaIRCtrue22:25
dm8tbrwhich should aim to be as compliant as possible22:25
dm8tbrso both n900 and exopc are probably the closest to compliant hardware adaptations22:25
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KaIRCwell, nowadays, the CE UX is a mess - but no wonder when you mix an unfinished handset UX with apps written for the tablet UX22:26
dm8tbrKaIRC: actually I would have lost my bet, exopc in the wetab variety apparently got recertified as meego core compliant. but I'm not sure, don't have a source for that at hand.22:26
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KaIRCdm8tbr: oh, you're saying that exopc and wetab are just varieties?22:27
dm8tbrsame hardware, really22:27
KaIRCinteresting22:27
dm8tbrexopc will run wetab images22:27
* KaIRC still wonders what hardware he should get for himself as a MeeGo tablet22:28
dm8tbrthere is a whole guide how to multi-boot win7, meego, ubuntu and wetab by an intel guy22:28
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dm8tbrKaIRC: if you want to get into weight lifting and fans, an exopc22:28
KaIRCwho needs win7 anyhow? ;-)22:28
dm8tbrapparently it's surprisingly usable on the hardware (didn't try)22:29
dm8tbrand the hw comes with a sticker on the back22:29
KaIRCdm8tbr: well, the exopc is expensive compared to a wetab...22:29
dm8tbrKaIRC: it costs you the trip to an app-up event ;)22:29
KaIRCdm8tbr: which means missing at least one work day, which isn't that cheap in the end22:29
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dm8tbrKaIRC: for me the event was a work event (the app up time wasn't though)22:30
dm8tbrhttp://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/04/happy-frogs-meego-summit-finland-2011-tieto/22:30
KaIRCand the one "nearest" to me (i.e. only 5h or so away on the train) did pass already, AFAIK22:30
dm8tbrI hear there is one during desktop summit22:31
KaIRCeven further away, and I'd miss work as well22:31
KaIRCdm8tbr: you're lucky, then... even if my employer has some interest in mobile devices, what I work for is not related to such things at all22:32
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KaIRCs/my employer/the entity I contract for/22:33
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infobotKaIRC meant: dm8tbr: you're lucky, then... even if the entity I contract for has some interest in mobile devices, what I work for is not related to such things at all22:33
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KaIRCheh, infobot is funny22:33
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dm8tbryepp22:33
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dm8tbrKaIRC: my daytime project has nothing to do with meego (so much I can say)22:33
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KaIRCdm8tbr: well, I can say anything I want about what I work, but it's still not related to MeeGo in any way other than openness ;-)22:35
* KaIRC wished that was different, but for that, MeeGo would probably need to be an important player in the market22:37
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dm8tbr*nod*22:38
dm8tbralso IIRC the browser engine is no longer fennec on N900CE22:39
KaIRCI thought the main browser still was fennec - just that they ship two other browsers in addition22:40
dm8tbrpossible22:40
* KaIRC really need to get a newer CE image - if only |zypper dup| would do that flawlessly so he wouldn't lose any settings22:41
dm8tbrKaIRC: tar up your home directory and etc :/22:41
dm8tbrand yes, I also have my reservations as to the fact that dup breaks things catastrophically22:42
KaIRCthat really needs to be fixed22:42
dm8tbrlast time tried that on an exopc image: the whole UI fubared22:42
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dm8tbrmaybe(tm) once they move to wayland and things stabilize... (haha)22:44
KaIRCsure22:45
KaIRClet's move to more experimental core software to stabilize ;-)22:45
KaIRCbut then, dup should not even be related to something like that - it works fine for openSUSE22:46
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dm8tbrKaIRC: the problem here is that meego is not a distro, it's that business thing22:55
dm8tbr(which you can build a distro upon and would then need to ensure things like dup work)22:55
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Stskeepsyeah, except even i dont buy that :P a vendor cant both be compliant and fix a huge upgrade conflict22:59
Stskeepswe should really test upgrades in meego22:59
dm8tbrbring it up at the next TSG? (yeah yeah I know)22:59
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Stskeepsqa is better23:00
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dm8tbrmeego should be backwards compliant within releases! ;)23:00
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lcukok a better question:23:06
lcukwhat is the easiest way to install meego and keep up with the leading edge?23:06
aukezypper dup against trunk23:06
dm8tbrreinstall daily, reinstall often23:06
aukeor that23:06
KaIRCauke: that should be it ideally23:06
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auketrunk:testing is impossible to track23:07
dm8tbr_ideally_23:07
aukebut trunk isn't so bad23:07
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dm8tbrupgradeability seems to be an total afterthought23:07
aukeI mostly zypper dup against trunk23:07
aukebut then again, I live in pinetrail land23:07
dm8tbras mic2 fosters the culture of one-off-shot images23:07
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aukedm8tbr: upgradeability is something for _after_ a release23:07
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aukewhich is why there are updates23:08
lcukauke, and something practiced between.23:08
iluminator101is anyone running meego with kernel 3.023:08
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dm8tbrauke: depends, if you don't do it before, you usually won't get it right after23:08
aukeiluminator101: there's a 3.0 pc kernel in trunk:testing23:08
aukeyou can't upgrade a system 'hot' from rpm 4.8 to rpm 4.923:08
aukeso23:08
aukesome stuff just won't work23:09
dm8tbriluminator101: n9(|50|00) CE also has some experimental 3.0 kernel23:09
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lcukdm8tbr, N9x0 will suffice :)23:14
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