IRC log of #meego for Thursday, 2011-06-23

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Venemolcuk, I think this "swipe" thingy is a very nice GUI idea00:02
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alteregoI think future disruptions doesn't include this year ..00:04
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lcukalterego, I think the meeting of minds from this last weekend was the start of that00:06
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alteregoHeh00:06
alterego:)00:06
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npmhave the apps on n9 (and associated UX) been ported to the ExoPC yet? :-)00:11
lcukthe apps on the n9 have not been released yet00:12
npmhow much of the non-harmattan stuff is open source? or how much will be?00:12
npmand also the UX to create them.00:12
npmand would QtMobility + (what else) bee needed to run these apps on x86 MeeGo?00:13
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mamoulhey buddies00:16
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mamoulhow are my favorite meego people00:17
CosmoHillf'd if I know00:17
mamoulI'm running netbook00:17
npmwe've placed bucket near our keyboards to catch the drool00:17
mamoulwith meego00:17
mamouloic00:17
mamoulI just updated this darn thing00:17
mamoulbut I dn't think it updated to 1.200:17
CosmoHillmamoul: as far as I know you can't update from one version to another, eg 1.1 to 1.200:18
mamoulis 1.2 an automatic update or do I have  to download a new image00:18
mamouloh ok00:18
mamoulthat's what I was suspecting00:18
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mamoulI thought somehow I had updated from 1.0 to 1.100:18
npmyou can if you know what you're doing, and depending on versions00:18
monoid3000+ comments on the top engaget N9 articles00:18
mamoulyeah00:18
CosmoHillI believe you require a new image00:18
mamoulmost distros have a major version upgrade process, but honestly easier to wipe a new image00:19
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npmi dunno about 1.0 to 1.0 that way because 1.0 didn't have zypper00:19
CosmoHillMeeGo is still young so there changes between 1.X and 1.Y are substantial00:19
npms./1.0/1.200:19
mamoulyeah00:19
mamoulis 1.2 everything I've been hoping for?00:19
CosmoHillonly you can answer that00:19
mamouldoes it autoconnect to networks that don't broadcast their ssid's?00:19
npmi'd wait till 1.2.100:19
mamoulhehe00:19
Venemo1.(n+1) is the winner00:20
* CosmoHill wonders if npm is joking00:20
mamoulI'll just put 1.2 on it and use zypper to go to 1.2.100:20
npmesp. if it's all working for you now00:20
mamoulthe only thing I couldn't stand about meego is the lack of support for hidden ssid's00:20
npmthat's bascally what i did.00:20
mamouland also my wireless card used to drop its connection all the time00:20
mamoulbut right now it seems ok00:20
mamoulmaybe they resolved that issue already00:21
CosmoHillMeego only do 1.X releases, to get 1.X.Y you download 1.X and update it00:21
mamoulright00:21
npmwell you'll be able to find a 1.2.1 image and install that at some point00:21
CosmoHillnope00:22
mamoulwhat!00:22
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mamoulI rather like meego00:22
mamoulsomehow it fits on my netbook00:22
mamoulwhich only has 4G of storage00:22
npmat worst on day of 1.2.1 release, grab http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/snapshots/stable/1.2.0.90/latest/ and install that00:23
mamoulnice00:23
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CosmoHillnpm: you know 1.2.0.90 is the 1.3 pre-realease?00:23
mamoul:o00:23
npmit fits on my netbook that only has 1G of storage00:23
mamoulnice00:23
npmin fact having more that 1G won't help on 1.2 due to kernel issue00:23
CosmoHillit fits on ...oh wait I don't have a netbook00:23
mamoulwait what00:23
mamoulwhy won't it help00:24
CosmoHillMeeGo will be a fixed size with however much left for /home00:24
mamoulcrap00:24
mamoulthat's not smart00:24
* CosmoHill is mostly making this up00:24
mamoulhmm00:24
CosmoHillI mean00:24
CosmoHillthe install will take 500MB00:25
mamoulyou mean it will partition the rest for home00:25
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CosmoHillno I mean that erm00:25
mamoulhmm00:25
CosmoHill/home doens't have to be a dedicated patition00:25
mamoulI only use meego because I can't use chrome os00:25
npmyou may want to look at your logs and if you see "Warning only 895MB will be used."00:26
mamoulI thought chrome os would be something I could download and install on my computer, but it appears not to work that way00:26
npmoh i meant ram storage00:26
npmnot disk storage00:26
CosmoHillah00:26
mamoulI have 2 gigs of ram00:26
npmone will be used00:26
npmin meego 1.200:26
mamoulmy netbook is fairly powerful00:26
mamoulshit00:26
CosmoHillhmm00:27
npmruns fine00:27
npm:-)00:27
mamoulhehe00:27
* CosmoHill looks for his Meego 1.2 disc00:27
mamoulmaybe meggo 1.2.1 wll fis that00:27
* npm wishes00:27
mamoulwe shall see00:27
mamoulmaybe I'll stick with 1.100:27
mamoulit runs chrome fine00:27
mamoulso far no dropped wifi00:27
npmactually a good test to run is "about:sandbox"00:28
mamoulchromium*00:28
npmif is says you are properly sandboxed, then run 1.100:28
* CosmoHill goes to prove npm wrong00:28
npmbecause it won't in 1.200:28
mamoulit says I'm not00:28
mamoulbut I swear I just updated to 1.1.600:28
CosmoHillmamoul: you can always run 1.2 off a memory stick and see how it goes00:28
npmi'd go fetch my son's 1.0 netbook to see what that says, but i'm lazy00:28
npmmamoul: the isssue has been reported00:29
mamoulsweet00:29
CosmoHilloh yeah, I'll prove you wrong but not if I means getting out of my seat00:29
mamoulmeego is developing a little faster now00:29
mamoulit was dead for a while back in the day00:29
CosmoHillYou mean when Nokia went "it's not you, it's me...and Microsoft"00:30
npmi've seen no signs that it will be fixed in 1.2.1 but you can see for yourself: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1628400:30
MeeGoBotBug 16284 is not accessible00:30
npmum, or not00:30
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CosmoHillbugger me you're right, wtf00:31
npmnever mind00:31
npmpretend i never said that00:31
npm:-)00:31
CosmoHilltotal RAM: 868MB00:31
* CosmoHill is using the livecd00:31
berndhswell it can't be "fixed", its supposed to be like that00:31
CosmoHilldamn, I've been using the MeeGo livecd as a host OS to build stuff00:31
npmmakes da compiles go a little slow eh00:32
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CosmoHillbiggest issue it running out of RAM, not having swap and it crashing00:32
npmjust don't do too many parallel compiles at a time and you'll be fine00:32
npmi setup lots of swap on my netbook00:33
npmknowing i'd be using it for devel00:33
CosmoHillfunny you should say that, it crashed when I did multiple jobs00:33
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berndhsput in tons of RAM and swap to a RAM disk :)00:33
npmlots == 4G00:33
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CosmoHillif I install Meego on my desktop I'd install a custom kernel to use the RAM00:33
npmdesktop has 6G00:33
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* CosmoHill has a 4GB desktop with Intel Q6600 and Intel GMA450000:33
npmi've seen some compiles w/ gnarly parser tables and full optimization get rather large00:34
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arjanthe reason we normally limit to 1Gb is that there is a 8% or so cost for enabling the option to do more00:34
arjanand netbooks/etc usually have 1Gb00:34
monoidfast device RAM also consumes power00:34
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npmis there a way of making that dynamic, or perhaps a kernel option so you could boot into a different config for more ram00:35
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CosmoHillzypper install super_kernel00:35
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monoidany word on pricing?  ~500 eur?00:35
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CosmoHillif you want to pay me 500 € for a super kernel you're welcome to00:36
monoidlol00:36
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gabrbeddnpm: either install 2 kernels or convince Linus to add such a feature. :-)00:37
npmarjan: any chance we could get those kernel options so's we can have a happier chromium browsing experience? (re aforementioned bug)00:37
CosmoHillarjan: is the 1GB limit a boot option?00:37
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npmarjan: specifically 'PID Namespaces' and 'Network namespace' under 'Namespaces support' config00:39
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Stskeepswe don't have those? they're kinda needed for MMS00:39
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npmactually that bug looks like it will be fixed for 1.2.1 since it's an update release blocker00:40
npmso there's a good reason for updating to 1.2.1 mamoul00:40
mamoulsweet00:41
arjannpm: sadly it really is compile time ;-)00:41
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gabrbeddnpm: CosmoHill: The MeeGo kernel is compiled without HIGHMEM support.  grep HIGHMEM /boot/config-$(uname -r)00:41
gabrbeddThat's what gives you >1GB support for 32-bit linux.00:42
arjanyup00:42
arjanif it was cheaper it'd be on always00:42
arjansadly it isn't ;-(00:42
npmhmmm. any chance of offering two kernels? i can imagine some mobile situations that might want to run some large apps (e.g. gabrbedd's indamixx workstation apps)00:42
CosmoHillkernels take up size00:42
CosmoHillwhat compression does meego use on the kernel?00:42
gabrbeddindamixx provides its own kernel -- so don't bring *us* into this. :-)00:43
CosmoHillso add his repo and install his kernel?00:43
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npmwhat's your kernel got that mine's missing?00:46
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CosmoHillHIGHMEM apparently00:47
gabrbeddthat, and capers00:47
npmwell leaving gabrbedd out of it, i also run apps that can use lots of memory: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem#Qtractor_Audio.2FMIDI_Editor_and_Sound_processing_plugins00:48
npmalthough i run out of CPU first usually00:48
CosmoHillpoor atop00:49
npmhmmm that reminds me ... i should try openshot on the tablet. probably pretty nice to hand-edit your video on it00:49
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CosmoHillI could take the MeeGo .spec file for the kernel, change the configuration and create it on the OBS?00:52
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gabrbeddCosmoHill: More or less, yes.00:54
gabrbeddCosmoHill: The kernel maintainers have a system to try to keep all the kernels in sync... so it would be a good idea to try and track with that.00:54
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gabrbeddCosmoHill: But not totally necc.00:55
gabrbeddCosmoHill: I recommend cloning the OBS project, if possible... rather than using the .src.rpm00:57
CosmoHillyeah I've just seen that00:57
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gabrbeddCosmoHill: Also... don't use the gitorious repos.00:58
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CosmoHillthere are 10 kernel .src.rpms, that's kinda confusing00:58
CosmoHillwait, I can ignore the header's one01:00
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CosmoHillaparantly there are 3 kernels on the OBS01:05
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CosmoHillgabrbedd: I can branch a project but only if it's on the OBS01:08
* CosmoHill stabs his router with a chicken01:09
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CosmoHillboth are clucked01:13
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CosmoHillokay, there are 3 kernels on the OBS, 2 of them don't exisit and one is not for meego01:15
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berndhsso that narrows it down to 0 of them ?01:15
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CosmoHillI need to update my space anyway cos it's for meego 1.101:16
CosmoHilldamn....added a new repo as a target and it's already building my packages for it01:17
CosmoHillcan the OBS unpack .src.rpm files?01:19
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Jaffajavispedro: No platfrom SDK here - running low on disk space on my dev boxes.01:20
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javispedroyou only need the x86 one for the time being01:20
javispedroso it's half the space01:21
javispedroah well, manual install required for that though01:21
CosmoHillI ran out of space on my desktop so I made a new /home and moved stuff over01:21
javispedroso forget I said anything =)01:21
CosmoHilldidn't go to well :(01:21
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CosmoHillopenmpi for Meego 1.2 http://repo.pub.meego.com/home%3a/cosmo/MeeGo_Trunk_standard/i586/01:26
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lcukJaffa, for the first time ever, my n900 told me it was out of disk space01:36
CosmoHillmy nokia told me to obay the speed limit01:37
lcuksensible01:37
CosmoHillmade me swerve :s01:37
lcukdon't speed then.01:37
CosmoHillI wasn't expecting it and it made me jump01:37
CosmoHillif the weaving caravan wasn't doing 70mph I wouldn't have to go faster to over take it01:38
reeddid nokia open source the GUI for the N9?01:38
lcuki let jake fly my helicopter tonight01:38
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CosmoHillwhat kinda size we talking about?01:38
CosmoHillbig boy's RC one or a xmas one that crashes into the xmas tree?01:39
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lcukCosmoHill, training model.01:40
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newbie007does anyone here know where on a N900 the "N900" directory actually is?01:41
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alteregonewbie007: it's /home/user/MyDocs01:43
alteregolcuk: ping01:45
newbie007thx, I'm still not seeing the same directory strucutre, I hope Meego has improved on this. I don't like not knowing where my stuff is01:46
alteregonewbie007: hidden directories for .documents .images are localised and shown as "Documents" and "Images" and "Music" etc ..01:47
monoidperhaps N900 should have been named MyDocs01:47
alterego(in English)01:47
alteregoIn other languages those directories are localised to be other names.01:47
alteregoTo make the UX nicer for different nationalities.01:47
newbie007.documents was it, thank you!01:47
monoidoh right localisation01:47
newbie007but from the gui you'd think there is /  /SDCard and /N900 with /N900/Documents01:49
newbie007I read on engadget there is a n950 coming out01:50
alteregoNo, there is an N9 "coming out"01:50
alteregoThe N950 is a developer device for targetting the N901:50
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CosmoHillI think the N950s always belong to Nokia, they're just lent to developers01:51
mamoulalright01:51
mamouljust updated to 1.201:51
mamoulit's pretty sweet01:51
newbie007oh01:51
mamoulalthough it failed to automatically partition my ssd01:51
mamoulso I reused the partition layout from 1.101:51
mamoulanyway so long and thanks for all the fix01:52
mamoulfish*01:52
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CosmoHilllol01:52
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gabrbeddCosmoHill: did you find the kernel OBS project?01:56
CosmoHillthe Community OBS can't see packages in the proper OBS01:56
gabrbeddI've been told that you can, at least through OSC.  But it requires a little extra config-file magic.01:57
berndhsyou can get the srpm off the main OBS and make your own01:57
CosmoHillit's midnight, I'll leave the witchcraft for another day01:57
gabrbeddFWIW, I based my kernel off the gitorious site... back when it was almost OK to use.01:57
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gabrbeddLast I checked, it was fscked, though.01:57
CosmoHillI just want the config file tbh01:58
gabrbeddYou can get that from the .rpm (not the source RPM... the binary rpm)01:58
CosmoHillgood poinbt01:58
CosmoHillalso need the .spec file to compile it01:59
gabrbeddaaaaaand that would be the .src.rpm :-)01:59
CosmoHilljep01:59
gabrbeddBTW, I only mentioned the OBS stuff if you were wanting to build a kernel to maintain long-term.01:59
gabrbeddObviously the .src.rpm is the shortest past from A to HIGHMEM.02:00
gabrbedd:-)02:00
CosmoHillif enough people download it then maybe an offical one will get made02:00
berndhsor if 1 manufactuerer wants to make a 2GB device02:01
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CosmoHillmy workstation at uni started out with 1GB of RAM02:03
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CosmoHillit now has 4GB of RAM just to coup with it's workload02:03
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CosmoHillwas gonna add a scratch disc but we don't think the PSU can take it02:04
alteregoSomeone has seriously screwed up N9/950 searches on youtube with Android spam02:04
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monoidexactly what search02:05
alterego"Nokia N950"02:05
alteregosecond page is pretty much 90% android spam :D02:05
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alteregoWell, youtube is owned by google ..02:06
berndhsthere you go, sue them02:06
alteregoOr not, wtf is "botleizer"?02:07
alteregohttp://www.youtube.com/wa02:07
alteregohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxeHvNARzcQ02:08
alteregoThat is sad ..02:08
monoidand making an issue of it is also02:10
alteregoI guess it's yours then ..02:10
alteregoNo need to get defensive :P02:10
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nialaI'm tired of hearing about money, money... I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok. -Shaquille O'Neal/ LOL02:12
CosmoHillyou chav02:12
alteregoHah02:12
* CosmoHill goes to smoke weed and knock up a slapper02:12
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Venemoanyhow, we should really congratulate to Nokia's marketing team02:14
Venemoafter spending two hours reading their articles and app development guidelines, I now actually want the device.02:14
nialaCosmoHill, I wonder how have weed with no sun if weather at wimbledon is true :)02:15
CosmoHillriding along the towpath, the weeds have grown a lot over a week02:17
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berndhssome wild grasses here are taller than me this year02:18
berndhshas been really wet02:18
CosmoHillfirst time we're seen mud since we've started riding02:20
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GAN900Venemo, it's a slick damn device.02:22
alteregoBest vid I've seen:02:23
alteregohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LphiRFvd40I02:23
alteregoGoes through pretty much everything ..02:23
VenemoGAN900, I like its UX very much02:23
VenemoGAN900, to be honest, I didn't expect that they would be able to suprise me, but they did.02:23
GAN900Nokia's still got it02:24
berndhsme too, I didn't expect the pink one02:24
GAN900there's a lot of bullshit and idiocy in the way02:24
alteregoYou mean, the Harmattan team still have it ;)02:24
GAN900but they still got it.02:24
MSMberndhs: Everything is better in pink ;-)02:24
Venemoyeah02:24
nialaCosmoHill,  about ride I'm sad for n900 he has no fm transmitter, i like radio on cycle02:25
VenemoI don't understand why they need M$ and WP7 if they have _this_02:25
alteregoEh?02:25
berndhswhen its dark it doesnt matter a lot02:25
GAN900Venemo, nor I.02:25
CosmoHillniala: bicycle02:25
alteregoThe N9 has FM radio apparently.02:25
GAN900Even Engadget agrees.02:25
Venemoyeah02:25
alterego(and probably FM transmitter too)02:25
alteregoRemember the TX feature isn't allowed in china ..02:25
Venemoand I'm also excited to develop apps for this stuff02:25
nialathank CosmoHill02:26
berndhsan interesting question is whether they can make something equally attractive with WP02:26
VenemoI only hope that the N950's battery will last longer than the N900's02:26
Venemothey can not, WP's UX sux02:26
berndhsperhaps they will just port Qt to WP02:27
nialaalterego, sure?02:27
alteregoberndhs: maybe that's why they've not announced a release date in the UK or other key western markets ...02:27
MSMberndhs: Aren't they releasing the N9 with WP?02:27
alteregoniala: yes.02:27
Venemoberndhs, I sure hope that they will02:27
alteregoniala: apparently the FM drivers are closed and we're having issues getting them for the N9 and N950 for MeeGo N9(XX) Community Edition ;)02:28
Venemoberndhs, the only advantage of WP7 is that it's very easy to develop with Silverlight. but Qt is catching up quickly02:28
berndhsElop said the next billion is not at the top end of the market02:28
CosmoHillniala: I mean that it was a push bike, not a motorbike ride that we had02:28
mtdIf anyone has time / experience I'd love a review of my Community N950 device application: https://meego.com/community/device-program/applications/two-apps-n9-tron-game-port-and-location-based-ringtone-management-app02:28
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CosmoHillalso if I was going to listen to music on a bike; headphones and a crash helmet would be better than an FM transmitter02:29
berndhsI mean of course it makes sense to use Qt on WP, but that doesn't mean it will be done02:29
berndhsit also makes sense that we should have landed on Mars 20 years ago :)02:29
Venemoberndhs, yeah...02:29
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GAN900berndhs, no it doesn't.02:30
alteregomtd: they're private02:30
alteregoberndhs: or maybe it will be done.02:30
alteregoMaybe it is being done already, and you just don't know about it :)02:30
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berndhssure, its entirely possible02:30
MSMTin foil hat time?02:31
alteregoMaybe it's more than possible ......02:31
nialaCosmoHill, transmitter is not the good word? forget02:31
CosmoHillniala: no no, FM transmitter is correct02:31
alteregoYou know, like we were saying we thought MeeGo needed Nokia for this, the N902:31
monoidlunar elevator could be completed now02:31
alteregoMicrosoft needed Nokia02:31
CosmoHillin the car a FM transmitter would be great02:31
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alteregoThe invested _billions_ into Nokia for them to put windows on their phones.02:31
CosmoHillbut on a push bike there is no radio02:31
nialaabout battery: if n900 phone is one block can we change the battery ?02:31
CosmoHill(not unless you stole it)02:32
alteregoI keep hearing things, and I'm starting to think that MS got the pointy end of the stick in their deal.02:32
MohammadAGI thought the FMTX was part of the wl1271?02:32
monoidyou can change the n900 battery niala02:32
alteregoI don't think the MS/Nokia relationship is as bad as we've all been thinking it is.02:32
alteregoMohammadAG: indeed02:32
Venemoalterego, please elaborate02:32
monoidit stinks02:32
MohammadAGalterego, and isn't that open? (drivers for the wl1251 were open)02:33
lcukVenemo, different people like different features.  having microsoft on nokias is not a bad thing.02:33
lcuksame as having MeeGo on nokias is not a bad thing.02:33
alteregoMohammadAG: I don't know, check :P02:33
nialawhoops sorry i mean  n9 not n90002:34
lcukVenemo, Nokia have historically made the most excellent hardware of any phone manufacturer in the history of the telephone02:34
alteregoThe options, especially when having multiple _high_ end operating environments on good hardware, means that the customers can decide.02:34
Venemolcuk, good point. and developing with Silverlight is not a bad thing, I only wish that there were a tool with which we could target both Nokia's WP7 and MeeGo devices02:34
alteregoTwo equally great platforms, or at least, two great platforms, are better than one no?02:34
alteregoEspecially if they're both cheap to maintain ..02:34
lcukVenemo, niggles rather than show stoppers02:34
lcukit is a good thing for the consumer to have choice02:35
Venemothat I agree with02:35
lcukbut they know if they pickup a Nokia it will be reliable :)02:35
alteregoSomeone said they'd seriously, pay me to develop a QML to silverlight and silverlight to QML conversion.02:35
Venemohowever, it would be nice if I could develop with a single toolkit for both of them02:35
alteregoI'm contemplating it, but I don't think it's too viable.02:35
berndhswell, unless you are the only provider, then choice is not that great :)02:35
alteregoFrom a UX design perspective, it might be ...02:35
Venemoalterego, I can help you with that02:35
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lcukVenemo, having it run Symbian or MeeGo or WP7 is great in my book.02:36
lcukor Maemo6 :)02:36
alteregoBut any easy translation is broken by application code requirements, like qt mobility, or whatever silverlight has.02:36
lcuk;)02:36
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Venemolcuk, sure02:36
lcukalterego, lowest common denominator02:37
Venemoalterego, we could write a QML<->XAML converter02:37
lcukeither make pure qml document apps work well02:37
lcukor html+js02:37
alteregoVenemo: I'm sure the basics wouldn't be hard, and I think it may even be a useful project02:37
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alteregoBut who knows :)02:37
lcukor something c based perhaps02:37
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lcuk;)02:37
alteregoVenemo: if you want to have a go at it, and you make some good progress, I will put you in contact with my contact.02:37
Venemoalterego, obviously converting between C++ and C# would be not easy, but since 90% of the GUI is in the declarative part, it wouldn't be a necessity02:37
lcukVenemo, tsh02:38
alteregoVenemo: sure, I'm just talking about the pure UX stuff.02:38
lcukQML -> C# is required too02:38
alteregoSo transitions, images, the core UX stuff, no app logic.02:38
Venemoalterego, I lack the necessary QML knowledge to make it happen, but I'm very-very good with XAML02:38
Venemoalterego, so we could pull it off together02:38
alteregom'kay.02:38
alteregoWell, I'll put it on my list and we can see how things pan out for me over the next month or so ;)02:39
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alteregoDo you think XAML on N9 would be good? ;)02:39
Venemoyeah, that too02:39
alteregoIf we could write a XAML->QML(runtime) implementation.02:39
Venemowe could port Moonlight even02:39
alteregoUsing what we know, well, that would be awesome.02:39
nialagnight02:39
VenemoMoonlight has an XAML parser and is fully compatible with SL202:40
alteregoGet Qt to make a QML scene graph from XAML ..02:40
alteregoHrm ...02:40
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alteregoMoonlight, yes, isn't that written in Mono/C# ?02:40
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Venemodunno what it's written in02:40
Venemobut _if_ the backend of QML is a public API, then anyone could easily write an XAML parser that would sit on top of that API02:41
alteregoOf course it's public, it's FOSS02:41
alteregoDoesn't take much to compile against private headers _if_ we need to ;)02:41
alteregoBut everything we need should be public.02:41
Venemohehe02:41
Venemowell, basically it's a JSON<->XML conversion then02:41
alteregoNope02:42
alteregoI'm thinking XML -> QtQuick scene graph02:42
alteregoSkip QML entirely02:42
Venemoyeah, that is right02:42
VenemoI'm talking about the converter you mentioned earlier02:42
alteregoWe can work on dumping .qml files if we want.02:42
alteregoBut I think a runtime would be more useful as a demo to ensure funding.02:43
Venemoand the non-declarative parts of QML could be translated into the "code-behind" C# code of the XAML in question02:43
alteregoOr at least for a cool R&D project.02:43
Venemomhm :)02:43
alteregoIt's getting late, I really need to head to bed soon.02:43
Venemoyeah, me too02:44
* alterego dreams about deliveries with N8 at his door in the morning.02:44
alterego*knock* *knock*02:44
Venemos/N8/N9 ?02:44
mtdalterego: thanks02:44
alteregomtd: what for?02:45
Venemoall I can say is, I can definitely help with either of these ideas, but I don't know enough about QML to do it alone. so if you feel like doing it alterego, you can definitely count on me.02:45
alteregoVenemo: no, N8, though I was thinking N9 :)02:45
mtdIf anyone has time / experience I'd love a review of my Community N950 device application: http://www.martindengler.com/proj/n9/02:45
alteregoI'm waiting for an N802:45
mtdalterego: the reminder they're private, minutes ago :)02:45
alteregoWant to play with the multimedia capabilities of it.02:45
alteregomtd: ah, cool :)02:45
alteregonp02:45
alteregobbiam02:45
lcukalterego, me too. nn speak to you tomorrow02:45
Venemoalterego, on a side note, if we successfully port/improve Moonlight, then we could even run WP7 apps on MeeGo (and Harmattan)02:45
alteregolcuk: g'night02:46
alteregoVenemo: good point02:46
monoidi would like meego plus archos a7002:46
alteregoMaybe Nokia should buy Moonlight off of Novell ;)02:46
SpeedEvilmtd: accellerometer and compass02:46
wmarone_Venemo: if you don't think MS won't actively interfere with that...02:46
mtdSpeedEvil: definitely02:47
mtdSpeedEvil: assume you're talking about the tron port; I didn't want to stuff it full of stuff to look like I was over-promising02:47
wmarone_bleh, excess negatives02:47
SpeedEvilmtd: yeah02:47
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Venemowmarone_, MS is legally okay with Moonlight. they even supplied Moonlight with codecs and stuff.02:47
mtdSpeedEvil: allow me to put you under "any other patches suggested by community" :)02:48
Venemoso anyway, if anyone from the Harmattan team is here, please congratulate your marketing guys! they sold me totally :)02:49
monoidwith the video?02:50
SpeedEvil:)02:50
monoidsaving bookmarks to the apps page is a nice idea02:50
alteregoVenemo: I think they're all partying :P02:50
alteregoAnyway, g'night folks02:50
Venemoalterego :)02:50
monoidcu alterego02:50
SpeedEvilI, for one, want folders in the app-launcher02:51
SpeedEvilI understand the argument against pre-defined folders.02:51
VenemoSpeedEvil, it's open source, you can make it happen02:51
SpeedEvilIs it?02:51
VenemoI think it is meegotouch-home02:51
SpeedEvilSorry - overspill02:51
SpeedEvilI dunno - I need to go and look at what is and isn't again02:52
Venemoalthough I can't give you first-hand information about it, yet02:52
SpeedEvilThre was _way_ too much of assuming stuff was closed on n90002:52
SpeedEvilWhen some useful bits were in fact open02:52
Venemoyeah:)02:52
* SpeedEvil wonders about meego on n9.02:52
SpeedEvil(and I know...)02:52
Venemoanyway, good night guys, it was well worth joining this channel today :)02:52
SpeedEvil:)02:52
SpeedEvilNight.02:52
Venemoalterego, if you are starting to think about this stuff that we talked about, I would be happy to help out with either of them. I think I'm still very good with XAML and C# and Silverlight :)02:53
Venemoalterego, (although it has been some time since I last used them)02:54
Venemonow good night!02:54
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TSCHAKeeeokay, what is the default rendering option used by qt apps that use qtdeclarative views?02:58
TSCHAKeeeif i leave it at default, performance is crap on my gma50002:59
TSCHAKeeeif i do opengl, fast but lots of glitches02:59
TSCHAKeeeraster seems to be sufficiently fast and no glitches02:59
TSCHAKeeeso what gives?02:59
monoidwhat do you mean by glitches?03:00
TSCHAKeeenot able to allocate textures big enough, so i get black squares03:00
TSCHAKeeeemgd has a ton of bugs03:00
monoidthere was a time when i couldn't allocate arrays larger than 64kB03:02
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SpeedEvil64K!03:04
MSM64K<303:04
SpeedEvilThere was a time I couldn't deal with >256 bytes of RAM without bank-switching.03:04
SpeedEvilIt was last week - I was coding for PIC03:04
SpeedEvil(and the device only had 20 bytes of RAM anyway)03:05
TSCHAKeeehehe03:06
TSCHAKeeei've coded games for the Atari 260003:06
monoidwow03:06
TSCHAKeeea 6502 attached to a RIOT and a TIA03:06
TSCHAKeeethe RIOT had 128 bytes of RAM03:06
TSCHAKeeeand there were only enough address lines for 4K of ROM space.03:06
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monoidthank you i don't feel so angry now03:07
TSCHAKeeeoh yes, and that was shared03:07
TSCHAKeeewith the stack03:07
TSCHAKeeeyou had to cycle count while the electron beam was on the screen03:08
TSCHAKeeeto set registers for the playfield, your two players, and the ball03:08
TSCHAKeee76 cycles per line03:08
monoidyea no screen buffer03:08
TSCHAKeeebut you got some time to breathe... during the vertical blank, and the overscan periods03:08
SpeedEvilI was doing that sort of thing a bit ago - on paper - to see if I could do SDR GPS on a $3 32 bit chip03:08
TSCHAKeeewhee03:08
SpeedEvilIt's tricky03:08
TSCHAKeeenice03:09
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TSCHAKeeebut the TIA had some great points03:09
TSCHAKeee128 colour palette (in 1976!)03:09
TSCHAKeeeand if you used your cycles wisely, you could draw some awesome stuff.03:09
SpeedEvil:)03:09
SpeedEvilI started on ZX81, with 1K RAM Z8003:09
TSCHAKeeewheee03:10
TSCHAKeeesoftware driven display03:10
TSCHAKeeeand a rather clever set of gates on a ferranti ULA03:10
SpeedEvilI find it amusing that there are - around - 10 cores in the n900 with more power than that.03:10
TSCHAKeeeme too03:10
monoidsad that user software doesnt use them03:10
monoidfor e.g. a low-power mp3 player03:10
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SpeedEvilIndeed.03:11
CosmoHillnight night03:11
SpeedEvilTo be fair - I'm not sure it can.03:11
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* SpeedEvil has way too little time.03:12
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SpeedEvilI meant to read up and find if the DMA unit could stay awake and trickle data to the 'soundcard' if you decode in a burst for 1 minute say with the DSP03:12
TSCHAKeeethat would be nice03:12
SpeedEvilWith the CPU completely asleep.03:12
TSCHAKeeei remember when I first saw the Amiga...03:13
TSCHAKeeea guy named Bob Pariseau was talking about the chips03:13
TSCHAKeeeand he said, "both the graphics and sound chips of the amiga can perform memory fetches and graphics operations on data while the 68000 sits completely idle"03:14
TSCHAKeeethat blew my mind.03:14
TSCHAKeeeI had seen it to a degree on the Atari 400/80003:14
TSCHAKeeebut they took it to a whole new level on the amiga03:15
SpeedEvilYep.03:15
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SpeedEvilFor a while there, RAM was faster than CPUs.03:15
TSCHAKeeeyup03:15
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SpeedEvilIt's astonishing that RAM access speeds haven't moved much since 1980.03:15
SpeedEvilRandom byte access.03:15
TSCHAKeeeyeah, pretty much03:15
TSCHAKeeethe static rams set the speed bar03:15
SpeedEvilI mean - sure - subsequent data comes in damn near instantly.03:16
SpeedEvilBut the access time is - almost - the same.03:16
TSCHAKeeeyup03:16
TSCHAKeeeram is also a lot more complex now than it once was03:16
TSCHAKeeewhen i traced through code in coreboot03:16
SpeedEvil(almost - from a perspective of having a RAM that is a million times bigger)03:16
SpeedEvilCacheline optimisation is scary.03:16
TSCHAKeeeto initialize the damned DDR2 SDRAM controller chips on the ram chips themselves03:17
SpeedEvilAnd all the various sorts of caches.03:17
berndhsdoesnt it come out faster than you can transfer it, for the faster memory types?03:17
TSCHAKeeeyou literally have to write code03:17
TSCHAKeeethat uses NO RAM at all03:17
TSCHAKeeeentirely within the caches of the CPU and the registers03:17
TSCHAKeeeto implement i2c03:17
TSCHAKeeeto initialize the damned ram chips03:17
SpeedEvilberndhs: Not really.03:17
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berndhsi mean off-chip memory, the buses have been the bottleneck for a long time03:18
berndhsand even the pins on the chips03:18
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SpeedEvilThe chips are designed to send at the rate the busses can handle.03:19
SpeedEvilYou can trade size for density and access time somewhat03:19
berndhsthere is distance and switching03:19
berndhsspeed of light is slow03:19
TSCHAKeeestatic ram will always be faster but less dense on average03:19
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SpeedEvilWell - yes - and no.03:20
SpeedEvilThe speed of light doesn't really come into it in cellphone cases.03:20
berndhsyou can't make the buses arbitratily fast03:20
SpeedEvilThe path from the memory to the CPU is around 2mm03:20
berndhshow long is that at 2/3 speed of light ?03:20
SpeedEvil3 picoseconds?03:21
SpeedEvilSomewhere around there03:21
SpeedEvilWell, well under 1 clock.03:21
TSCHAKeeeyou're always going to hit hard limits, physics is a bitch like that..but you CAN always try to do more in a given clock cycle.03:21
TSCHAKeeeat least, until we can figure out how to create wormholes on a motherboard :P :)03:22
berndhsthat's not easy though, you have to know the right bunch of things to do03:22
TSCHAKeeei know, the age old pipelining problem03:22
TSCHAKeeei started seeing this problem when VLIW  and superscalar designs started appearing in the mid 80s.03:23
SpeedEvilInstruction ordering gets to be a hideous pain.03:23
berndhsi worked on some of this for parallel computing in the late 80s03:23
TSCHAKeeeit was one of the many reasons Intel drop kicked the iAPX43203:23
SpeedEvilthe 432 looked really interesting.03:23
SpeedEvil(from a historical perspective)03:23
TSCHAKeeeit did, on paper03:23
SpeedEvilI wonder what it'd have done if the compiler hadn't sucked.03:24
TSCHAKeeethey just couldn't get the damned thing to go very fast03:24
berndhsand the problems seemed to go awauy with really fast CPUS, and now they're mack with many-core systems03:24
berndhss/mack/back/03:24
TSCHAKeeeit would have literally been Intel's answer to the VAX03:24
SpeedEvilI mean - yes - the hardware was slow - but the compiler seemed to pessimise it.03:24
TSCHAKeeeberndhs: yeah..03:25
TSCHAKeeethe funny thing is, we're seeing so many trainwrecks about to happen with all these cores popping into designs03:25
TSCHAKeeebut most of the industry just has their fingers in their ears03:25
TSCHAKeeelalalallala i can't hear you03:25
berndhssure, they'll make some mistakes that seem really obvious03:26
SpeedEvilAll of the hard problems from the supercomputer era are back.03:26
TSCHAKeeeyup03:26
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SpeedEvilBut they're in your phone.03:26
TSCHAKeeeand if Cray were still alive he would have said, "I fucking told you so."03:26
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TSCHAKeeeand i am concerned that a great many # of the solutions proposed03:28
TSCHAKeee...yes...any solution in the computer world is contrived03:28
TSCHAKeeethat's the name of the game03:28
TSCHAKeeebut some of these solutions border on utopic.03:29
SpeedEvilAnd then there is the fun game of avoiding the patent trolls.03:29
berndhsi'm dissapointed how little we do with all the speed and resources we have today03:29
TSCHAKeeeberndhs: you and me both03:29
TSCHAKeeeberndhs: i look at my 25mhz Amiga, and i cry.03:29
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SpeedEvil'oh - it's slow. But then it's only a 1GHz CPU'03:30
SpeedEvil...03:30
TSCHAKeeeonly got 1 gig of ram03:30
TSCHAKeee!!!03:30
TSCHAKeeelike..dude your LOCAL STACK IS BIGGER THAN THE HEAP ON THE HIGH PERFORMANCE COMPUTERS I HACKED ON!03:31
berndhsthis is where someone brings up the Apollo program computers :)03:31
TSCHAKeeeyeh the AGC03:31
TSCHAKeeeheheh03:31
TSCHAKeeethis is where i sometimes pine for FORTH03:32
TSCHAKeee:P03:32
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berndhsi never wrote a serious Forth program03:32
SpeedEvilForthML03:34
* lcuk wonders what to call his pseudocode03:41
berndhscall it program_4203:42
* TSCHAKeee is happies, our new Orbiter is taking its first breaths03:42
SpeedEvilLean Inspirational Quick User Interface Developy03:43
TSCHAKeeewhy must it always be an acronym? :P03:43
TSCHAKeee:)03:43
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berndhsthere's nothing wrong with 4203:48
SpeedEvilThat would be a cool name for a language.03:49
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lcukberndhs, :) http://liqbase.net/liq.20110623_015300.liqbase-playground.scr.png03:53
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SpeedEvilWill that crash my (imaginary) ipad?03:54
SpeedEvil:)03:55
SpeedEvilIs the clock live?03:55
lcukyes03:55
lcukthe whole thing is03:55
lcukthat is what I see when I look to the left03:55
SpeedEvilneat.03:55
lcukall the things my wallunit would have on anyway03:56
SpeedEvilSlight problem for anyone who can't read their own handwriting.03:56
lcuknot really, there are professional fonts around :)03:56
lcukand everybody can practice.03:56
lcukthere is a whole group of sketches where I learnt how to write03:57
lcukcalled "practice" as it happens ;)03:57
SpeedEvil:)03:57
lcukmy mate has a load of similar ones on his iphone03:57
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monoidi am holding on to my hope that Nokia will build more linux phones04:02
monoidor at least have a skeleton effort to make a kernel + drivers for new phones04:02
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berndhsi'm holding on to my hope that in 5 years we won't need phones any more, network will be everywhere and we'll just use voip04:03
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phl0x81lol04:05
monoidi almost never use the phone04:05
SpeedEvilNot going to happen in 5 years.04:05
SpeedEvilSpectrum is congested.04:05
berndhsno probably not04:05
SpeedEvilwimax, and ... don't change that04:05
berndhsoh i'm sure its perfectly feasible from a technical point of view04:05
TSCHAKeeeactually, it's not... in the US, huge chunks are still "allocated for future use" by DoD04:05
SpeedEvilWhen beamforming gets cheap, and some of it can be offloaded onto 60GHz cheaply - ...04:05
TSCHAKeeesimilar situations in other countries04:05
berndhsbut the market doesn't move that fast04:06
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SpeedEvilI have recieved 3 calls on my n900.04:06
SpeedEvilActually - no - 4.04:06
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monoid:) SpeedEvil04:08
lcuk2monoid, :D what have you discovered in your recent hours about the n9(50)04:09
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monoidnothing lcuk2, only that i will probably not beat out 250 other devs04:10
monoidif it were 750 i would have a good chance i think04:10
monoidmaybe 100004:10
lcuk2did you advance your ideas further04:10
lcuk2s there something specific you would want to do?04:11
monoidi think i will buy a used n900 from amazon.co.uk04:11
lcuk2lol04:11
monoidyes i have a game running on n900 but i broke one of the battery pins04:11
SpeedEvilProlly best to wait till after the deadline - just in case.04:11
monoidah mhm04:11
lcuk2monoid, what apps have you written yourself?04:11
monoida tetris clone04:11
monoidlong ago :)04:12
SpeedEvilmonoid: how'd you do that?04:12
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monoidwith um.. microsoft c compiler04:12
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monoidon a $1800 graphics card :D04:12
SpeedEvilBattery terminal04:12
lcuk2lol04:12
monoidSpeedEvil: oh i bent one after dropping device so bending it back broke it off04:13
SpeedEvilShould be fairly easy to solder back on.04:13
monoidmhm ... new n900s are still pricey04:13
SpeedEvilI've only soldered a couple of wires onto the terminals once - never tried actually soldering it back on.04:13
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monoidit's like fox cancelling firefly04:19
MSMFirefly<304:20
monoidcurse you fox!  curse you foreevaaaaahhhh04:23
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monoidsorry offtopic04:24
berndhsi don't follow a lot of TV series, I'm not a good consumer04:24
monoidsame04:24
monoidbut some linux people told me "you have to watch the whole series" and so i bought them04:24
monoidwow 1 billion04:25
monoidoops wrong window04:26
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berndhshmm meego-ux is about 8700 lines of C++ and 23000 lines of QML04:36
berndhsmeeg-ux-components04:37
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blizzowI'd love to see Meego installed on an e7.07:15
blizzowDoes anyone here know if it's possible?07:16
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Myrttiblizzow: the general consensus is no.07:24
iekkumorning07:25
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blizzowI'm surprised there is all this activity to hack other bootloaders but nobody has done it to an e7.07:29
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Myrttiblizzow: which other bootloaders are you referring to?07:30
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blizzowMotorola bootloaders, htc?07:30
blizzowor maybe I'm confusing jailbreaking and bootloader hacking.07:31
MSMMotorolas bootloaders are doomed to be locked forever07:31
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Myrttiandroid devices then... afaik Nokia is pretty adept making theirs next to impossible to get around, unless the device has been semiplanned to allow it07:32
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DocScrutinizerOMAP support for crypto-signed BL is pretty good07:49
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DocScrutinizerbasically the immutable ROM bootloader integrity-checks and verifies 1st stage bootloader (xldr iirc) with a rather secure encryption key07:52
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DocScrutinizerfor now this 1st stage BL isn't doing same for 2nd stage NOLO07:53
DocScrutinizerthis can change any time, with any update, for any OMAP device07:54
DocScrutinizerand actually it seems it *has* changed for N9(50), see aegis07:54
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dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: this is only valid for HS silicon08:04
DocScrutinizerindeed08:04
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dm8tbrand that's also exactly where we broke into Archos devices back then :>08:05
DocScrutinizerI referred to ""Nokia is pretty adept making theirs next to impossible to get around"" where Nokia == the recent OMAP based devices which seem all to be HS08:05
dm8tbryes, nokia seems to use HS by default08:05
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dm8tbrthey're an large enough customer that there is probably little to no markup in ordering HS silicon08:05
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wmarone_HS?08:06
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DocScrutinizeralso they may actually get their own root cert in ROM08:06
dm8tbrHighSecurity08:06
wmarone_ahh08:06
dm8tbrI bet they do08:06
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iekkuextra bug triage for Core bugs starting on #meego-bugs, now08:06
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dm8tbrwmarone_: TI offers their silicon usually in 3 varieties, no, EM and HS. where EM is really just HS with a more or less known or shared key that is used for EVMs08:09
wmarone_did not know that08:09
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DocScrutinizerhttp://www.hs.fi/haku/?kaikkiSanat=elop+sulkee+pois+meegon+paluun  [2011-06-23 07:44:28] <kirma> title is "Elop rules out return of Meego"08:48
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Stskeepsfrankly, with all those people leaving meego devices, i'm not surprised08:48
DocScrutinizerone thing you can't accuse Elop for: he's never really unclear about his plans to ruin Nokia08:49
Stskeepsanyway, for speculation, #meego-bar or tmo :)08:49
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DocScrutinizerabsolute consequence, absolute precision08:49
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bkalingai am using baseurl=http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/repos/oss/ia32/packages/08:50
bkalingagetting error warning: /var/cache/zypp/packages/1.2-oss/i586/libqtsysteminfo1-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-9.31.i586.rpm: Header V3 RSA/SHA1 Signature, key ID 44e4155a: NOKEY08:50
bkalingaThe package integrity check failed.08:50
DocScrutinizerquoting a newspaper interview of elop isn't exactly speculation08:50
bkalinga/var/cache/zypp/packages/1.2-oss/i586/libqtsysteminfo1-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-9.31.i586.rpm Public key is unavailable08:50
bkalingaduring sudo zypper in qt-mobility08:50
Stskeepsbkalinga: add a gpg key line08:50
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bkalingai have added gpgkey=http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/repos/oss/ia32/packages/repodata/repomd.xml.key08:51
Stskeepsbkalinga: think that path has to be local08:51
Stskeepsie, wget'tted08:51
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bkalingaStskeeps: after I  wget http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/repos/oss/ia32/packages/repodata/repomd.xml.key and rename this file and gave the path to this file in  /etc/zypp/repos.d/1.2-oss.repo08:59
bkalingastill getting the same problem08:59
bkalingaalso  rpm --import /etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-meego-releases1.2.008:59
bkalingaerror: /etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-meego-releases1.2.0: import failed.09:00
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bkalingaif the repo changes to different location will this gpg key should change??09:01
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Termanamorning09:12
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MSMEvening09:21
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gabriel9congratulations to all of you for N9 :)09:39
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gabriel9can't wait to buy that phone09:39
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DocScrutinizerbuy 5, as it's the last linux device from Nokia09:42
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DocScrutinizers/device/phone/09:43
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: buy 5, as it's the last linux phone from Nokia09:44
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* DocScrutinizer giggles, mumbling "harmattan"09:45
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flailingmonkey DocScrutinizer: harmattan, the new curse word09:48
DocScrutinizerflailingmonkey: just funny to see congrats here09:48
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flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer: also, those photos of N950 are pretty sexy too, even if fairly weak spec-wise09:49
DocScrutinizerfeels like somebody giving you best wishes to your 50th, while you're in fact just 4009:49
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gabriel9:D09:52
flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer: i'm pretty sure that fitting in next generation chipset (and reworking a bit for hdmi output which is common of that generation) would make for an easy second consumer device09:53
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gabriel9I am really happy for you guys :)09:53
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gabriel9meego is really nice09:53
DocScrutinizergabriel9: you're aware that N9 doesn't really run meego09:53
flailingmonkeydoes it even use ofono?09:54
gabriel9:/09:54
DocScrutinizerflailingmonkey: good question09:55
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, others told me yesteday that it runs the handset ux (meegotouch-home) with a custom theme09:56
Stskeepsit runs the MTF stack, yes, with closed source bits on top09:56
DocScrutinizerwell, the theme maybe is identical, dunno about that. The system beneath for sure is more maemo than meego09:56
Stskeepsbut it's not meego.com underneath09:56
gabriel9i didn't read all stuff form the internet09:57
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: what's MTF stack?09:57
VenemoDocScrutinizer, indeed.09:57
gabriel9but this is nice start and09:57
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: libmeegotouch, meegotouch-home, mcompositor, etc..09:57
DocScrutinizeraah thanks09:57
VenemoDocScrutinizer, they did just like they promised09:57
gabriel9i will buy nokia N9, or any meego phone :)09:57
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gabriel9also, company in which i work are interested in Qt09:58
gabriel9one question: Why everybody saying that N9 is running Meego?10:00
VenemoDocScrutinizer, MTF = MeeGo Touch Framework10:00
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Stskeepsgabriel9: so, the story was that this device was supposed to come ages ago and only be a tiny speck of difference, while nokia transformed to real meego.com10:01
iekkuCE bug triage starting @ #meego-meeting, now10:01
Venemogabriel9, because all their marketing efforts are going towards the name MeeGo, so they're calling this one "MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan", plus they do support the MeeGo APIs10:01
Stskeepsgabriel9: what does matter is that it's a qt stack10:01
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gabriel9yea, it is important that people are saying it is Meego phone and they are pleased :)10:02
gabriel9all are happy10:02
Stskeepsbut it does hurt the idea of 'meego compliant' quite a fair bit10:02
Stskeepsso that's why some people are disgruntled10:02
gabriel9last time i read something about meego is 2-3 months ago10:03
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gabriel9so i'm little out of the picture10:04
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Venemoperhaps they think that the meego.com MeeGo is not yet stable enough for a commercial product? who knows?10:05
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StskeepsVenemo: given that nokia were supposed to invest 50% of the burden into meego.com, it makes you wonder who's fault it is10:06
Stskeeps:P10:06
Venemohehe10:06
Venemowell anyway, what MeeGo needs is products built on it, so we should appreciate the N9(50) even if they're not "the" MeeGo yet.10:07
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Hq`yes, the positive reviews of the N9 are definitely good publicity for meego.com too, even if it's technically not real meego10:10
Stskeepsit's just about not confusing matters too much. there were a large number of things the harmattan guys could have done to lessen the impact and they didn't do it10:11
Venemothing is, that noone outside this channel cares about what it is technically.10:11
Stskeeps1) developer story sucks: people have to tell the difference between meego.com (many devices) vs harmattan (one device)10:11
Venemothey see a great UX, they see the MeeGo caption, and that's all we need10:11
Stskeeps2) there's nothing technical stopping them from having been able to accept meego compliant rpm packages10:12
VenemoStskeeps, you sound right. but right now, it is meego.com: 0 devices vs  harmattan: 2 devices10:12
Venemosure10:13
Stskeeps3) they haven't bothered to even bring toolchains to sync, glibc/etc10:13
Venemothis is all true10:13
Venemobut then look at the bright side:10:13
VenemoI can make a package for both platforms with one click in the same IDE10:14
Venemooh, and one more click and I will get it to the N900 too10:14
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Stskeepsi'm a little unconvinced of the magical rpm/deb generation :)10:14
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Stskeepsi'm already seeing people post .deb's only for their sw10:15
Stskeepsand that shows a problem10:15
VenemoI'm sure that as soon as there'll be meego.com-based devices, people will start posting .rpms too10:15
Stskeepsexcept there are already, while not handsets10:16
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Venemowe shall see.10:16
BotsikStskeeps: you can blame me for the magical deb creation, I think - the original prototype was mine and the original implementation was by a guy who was promptly snatched by Trolltech Berlin after that...10:17
StskeepsBotsik: weren't you bostik at some point? :P10:17
Venemoanyway, I think you do agree that what happened is still a lot better than nothing10:17
Botsikyeah, but apparently someone else has a claim to that nick *shrug*10:17
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StskeepsVenemo: i don't think it's a bad thing but honestly, they should have done a minimal effort to fix some glaring issues that would simplify matters a lot10:17
VenemoStskeeps, I agree fully10:18
Stskeepsthey certainly had a long time to figure out things10:18
Venemobut if this is what their manpower allowed them to do, then I welcome it10:18
Stskeepsi think there were simply some people that were lazy and narrow minded.10:18
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Venemomaybe.10:19
StskeepsBotsik: btw, had bringup of qt5+qtquick210:19
VenemoI only hope that this MTF theme they made (the swipe thingy) for their UX will be able to run on the N900 in some form10:19
Stskeepsheh, good luck with that sgx frequency10:19
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Venemohm?10:20
Stskeepsn950/n9 sgx frequency is 200mhz which is why things look so damn good ;)10:20
Stskeepsn900's 110mhz10:20
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VenemoI'm not saying I'm expecting an equally smooth experience10:20
Venemo(N900's RAM is also a lot lower)10:20
Stskeepsi'm of the opinion that people ought to forget about the closed source stuff and contribute to what's open and already quite nice, as the closed source path isn't sustanable10:21
Venemoagreed10:22
BotsikStskeeps: yummy, it may take me a couple of weeks before I can appreciate the whole shebang but I *am* interested - just at the moment I'm in the middle of one hell of a emergency situation which deprives everything else of my attention10:22
Stskeepsgo try out the n900 CE summer release10:22
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: (minimal effort to fix some glaring issue) look, it's Nokia ;-P10:22
StskeepsBotsik: :nod:10:22
StskeepsBotsik: i'm leaving saturday for vacation for a bit, too10:22
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Venemosomeone just needs to make a similar MTF theme in FOSS, and then put it on the N900 DE10:22
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VenemoStskeeps, according to a guy who blogged about it, Harmattan took only 9 months. I expected a bit more.10:23
Stskeepsnot that simple10:23
Stskeeps9 months?10:24
Stskeepsah-ha.hahaha10:24
Stskeeps:P10:24
monoidi like maemo on the n900 just fine as-is10:24
Venemohttp://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2011/06/respect.html - "All the blows and all the work in the course of 9 months."10:24
StskeepsVenemo: meaning several people left and problems10:24
Stskeepsin those 9 months10:24
Venemomhmm10:25
Venemoah, so I misunderstood10:25
Venemonevermind :)10:25
Stskeepswhat you more should look at is how damn quickly intel ramped up a QML ux10:26
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Venemothat is nice too10:27
DocScrutinizerwell, they don't probably use botches like tana_fi_foobar to accomodate their translators and the process10:27
VenemoIntel's is nice, but it isn't "swipe"10:27
DocScrutinizerI'm quite sure things like those slow down development quite a bit10:27
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: yes, because those damned chinese doesn't matter?10:28
Stskeeps(please note the sarcasm there)10:28
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Venemoanyhow, Intel indeed seems to be a more agile company, and they are a lot more behind MeeGo than Nokia is10:28
DocScrutinizerwhatever, there are better ways inhouse, see qt-linguist10:28
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DocScrutinizerand honestly no app should break by just removing locale or by setting LANG=C10:30
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monoidan intel phone could run dosbox better, and do everything else worse10:31
DocScrutinizerthere's even proprietary botch in .desktop for this, where it definitely isn't needed10:31
DocScrutinizer(at least in fremantle there's been)10:32
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DocScrutinizeryou're aware that depending on locale is what makes rootfs bloated with a 29MB size translations file that's rather useless on early boot and could've been moved to /usr proper otherwise10:34
DocScrutinizer(i.E. could've been optified)10:35
DocScrutinizerthat's what slows down development speed10:36
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Venemostill, Harmattan is a lot better than what I expected10:39
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DocScrutinizerI've not yet touched it10:42
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Venemome either, but it looks very good10:43
DocScrutinizereven mockups look good usually ;-D10:43
DocScrutinizeronly gates manages to announce new OS and get a BSOD10:44
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VenemoDocScrutinizer :D11:01
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TheBootrooomg did some1 saw THAT :  http://mynokiablog.com/2011/06/22/nokia-n950-press-shots-meego-qwerty-devkit/comment-page-1/#comment-10844311:07
TheBootroono more want a N9, i want the  N950 sure11:08
TheBootroosexiest device ever11:08
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VenemoTheBootroo, agreed11:09
TheBootroolook at my commment at the bottom of page, i put things in their true place about the MeeGo ecosystem troll11:09
TheBootroo;-)11:09
TheBootroohttp://mynokiablog.com/2011/06/22/nokia-n950-press-shots-meego-qwerty-devkit/comment-page-1/#comment-10844311:09
TheBootroook11:10
TheBootrooalready posted the same link11:10
TheBootroodidn't see11:10
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Venemono problem11:10
Venemoyeah, I did read your comment :)11:10
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TheBootrooVenemo: ok that's what you said 'agreed' about11:11
TheBootrooVenemo: i can be a little acid on my comments because it annoys me seeing people who don't understand things to continue to feed a wrong troll11:12
TheBootrooso sometimes i try to explain things to restore the truth, even if i know a few number is going to understand and yet fewer will agree....11:13
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Venemoyeah11:14
VenemoI understand11:14
TheBootroobut since 2 years maemo and moblin merge has been anounced, i never failed in my predicitions about meego and what i thought always finished by arriving, maybe a little later because of nokia internal reorganizing, but i'm pretty sure MeeGo is not death, it's a just born baby with a full life in front of it.... i hope i'm not wrong ...11:15
TheBootrooVenemo: you understand and you agree11:15
TheBootroothat's great11:15
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Venemo:)11:17
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TheBootroooh and in my free time, i'm developping a proto for a new UI for meego Community Edition handset, which will be on pair with N9 one i hope, that how it looks at the moement (not finished at all, but i sleeped at 3:50AM last night so didn't finished huh) : http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/488517Capture10.png11:21
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TheBootroothe new thing is the apparition of categories separtion in the menu, i don't made the panels view neither expose neither notifications wall at the moment (not finished) but at end it will look very slick11:22
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TheBootrooi will post landscape screenshots soon11:23
VenemoTheBootroo, is this a design concept or a working prototype?11:23
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TheBootrooVenemo: half-working protoype, but not yet compiled for meego, runs on my ubuntu qt dev box11:24
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VenemoTheBootroo, is it based on MTF?11:24
TheBootrooa sort of proof of concept11:24
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TheBootrooVenemo: no its 100% plain C++ Qt4, no MTF, no QML11:25
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TheBootrooonly Qt and a few CSS11:25
VenemoTheBootroo, based on QWidgets?11:26
TheBootrooyes11:26
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Venemomhm11:26
TheBootrooVenemo: i will rewrite the stabilized prototype using QGraphicsItems then11:26
TheBootrooits to show my ideas to MeeGo devs by let them play with my proto on every Qt plateform to see the real goodness and maybe fix some glitches if needed11:27
TheBootrooVenemo: do you like it (keep in mind its not finished)11:27
* timoph would like to see the actual code11:28
TheBootrootimoph: i will put it on my gitorious very soon11:28
TheBootroomaybe tonight11:28
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timophnice11:28
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TheBootrootimoph: need to refactor a little the code11:29
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Hq`at least it looks a lot better than the current reference handset ux :)11:30
TheBootrooHq`: thx11:30
TheBootroojust wait a little time i finish at least the menu page and you will see the real candidate look11:31
TheBootrooi need to do some missing icons too11:31
Hq`but soon everyone will want swipe ;)11:31
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TheBootrooand code some layouts (in fact only adapt them since i already made them in another project)11:31
TheBootrooHq`: this UX is not swipe based and will never need mutlitouch to work (i'm thinking about N900 users who don't have it)11:32
TheBootrooand i want to prove we can do a modern UI without necessary reproducing all Apple hyped paradigms11:33
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TheBootroooh and i will not keep symbian Anna icons, snice they are not free and will use another custom theme (a lot of work under inskcape is being done for these icons)11:34
julienfmorning :)11:34
Venemomorning11:35
alteregobonjour11:35
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TheBootrooalterego: tu es français ?11:35
wazdhttp://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/nokia-n950-pictures-a-gallerys-worth-of-meego-to-tell-the-stor/ ooooh :)11:35
alteregoErm, no11:36
TheBootroook11:36
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alteregoI just like to greet in different languages :D11:36
julienfalterego:  :D11:36
julienfanyone nearby London this weekend?11:36
flailingmonkeynice video of N950 with the keyboard getting some use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8jH_apD2k11:36
Venemomorning alterego11:36
julienfCould do an improvised meetup as I'm here :)11:37
Venemoflailingmonkey, it's nice, but they speak in some weird language11:37
alteregojulienf: I'm always near by London, not sure what I'm doing this weekend though.11:37
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flailingmonkeyVenemo: I didn't actually have my audio up, so I didn't notice11:38
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wazdbtw, I've mentioned it before at meego-arm. I was looking at all that "swipe" fancy stuff and remembered one thing: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/09/14/fremantle-swipe-launch/11:38
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bkalingaroot       508   238  0 08:37 ?        00:00:00 sh -c LANG=C gdb --batch -f /usr/bin/mcompositor /tmp/corewatcher/core.344.processed -x /var/lib/corewatcher/11:39
bkalingaroot       509   508 16 08:37 ?        00:00:00 gdb --batch -f /usr/bin/mcompositor /tmp/corewatcher/core.344.processed -x /var/lib/corewatcher/gdb.command11:39
bkalingamy qemu comes black11:39
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Venemowazd, hmmm11:39
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bkalingaand i see this on ps output  as some thing unusual11:40
bkalingaany one has any idea?11:40
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julienfalterego: When do you have some time?11:40
wazdVenemo: well, of course it's not a 100% copy :)11:40
alteregojulienf: I'd have to probably let you know tomorrow.11:41
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flailingmonkeynight11:42
roofboardTest.. Hi!11:42
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wazdroofboard: hello :)11:42
roofboardanybody here?11:42
andre__kind of11:43
roofboardcool! i just started using meego this is awesome best netbook os ever!11:43
wazdroofboard: awesome :)11:43
Venemoroofboard, very cool11:43
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roofboardyah man, imean i tried.... the new ubuntu 11, easy peasy, netbook remix, and joli!11:44
TheBootroohow about using the tablet ux on a netbook, would be cooler even no ?11:45
wazdTheBootroo: eeek :)11:45
roofboardone wouild need a touch screen....11:45
roofboardhey i got a question for yall11:45
TheBootrooroofboard: not necessarely11:46
TheBootroojsut use only left mouse button11:46
roofboardwhat do you use as an application manager/system monitor?11:46
TheBootrooroofboard: XTerm ;-)11:46
TheBootrooand sometimes Synaptic and Gnome-System-Monitor (but heavy)11:46
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roofboarddid you have to compile them yourself?11:47
TheBootrooroofboard: i mean on ubuntu11:48
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TheBootrooroofboard: i can't use meego since i don't yet have correct hardware (all my devices have nvidia)11:48
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TheBootrooroofboard: but i believe there is synaptic in meego repos11:49
TheBootroonot sure though11:49
TheBootroobut you can use Gnome Package kit11:49
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roofboardomm, i typed in synaptic and i got an imput driver! but the gnome package kit is well alot of stuff...11:52
roofboardwhat is meego built off? can i use the ppa's from ubuntu?11:52
Stskeepsno11:52
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TheBootroono the input driver is SynapticS11:53
TheBootrooand ubuntu ppa use .deb meego is using .rpm11:53
TheBootrooyou could maybe use Fedora repos11:53
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roofboardok, thanks i will try and check out some rpm libraries, btw does antbody know where the repository file is?11:54
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bkalingaHi all, is there any way i can clean my MeeGo1.2 installation without re-installing from the scratch11:56
bkalingaMy tablet qemu was working earlier and suddenly started showing black screen11:56
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bkalingai want to clean my set up simillar to a fresh installation11:57
bkalingawithout re-installing it11:57
bkalingaIs it possible?11:57
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maitreybkalinga, i faced similar problems with netbook installation but it appears that we need to reinstall .. are u trying to upgrade to 1.3?11:58
bkalinga1.3 is available??11:59
maitreyno i mean an update existing 1.2 ?11:59
bkalingayes i want to clean everything so that it will behave as a fresh installation12:00
maitreyI used 17th may image and tried to update it  but same issues as yours ended with black screen..12:00
bkalingawill Maintain MeeGoSDK1.2 will help12:00
bkalingaor it will download again eveything?12:00
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maitreyare u able to get to the console? mirek2 had a tweak  .. may  be he can help you12:01
bkalingayes i am able to get console12:01
bkalingathemedaemon crashes so not able to see the ui12:02
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maitreymirek2, can u please help bkalinga ? it seems u had some tweak which worked for rakesh12:03
maitreyI was not able to get to the console bkalinga12:03
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bkalingameego@[meego-tablet-sdk]::~$12:04
bkalingaMessage from syslogd@localhost at Thu Jun 23 09:04:17 2011 ...12:04
bkalingalocalhost klogd: [   18.417137] Process mcompositor (pid: 382, ti=f5366000 task=f53649d0 task.ti=f5366000)12:04
bkalingai am getting these logs repeatedly12:04
bkalingaMessage from syslogd@localhost at Thu Jun 23 09:04:52 2011 ...12:05
bkalingalocalhost klogd: [   54.050988] Process mcompositor (pid: 1025, ti=f537e000 task=f20eac50 task.ti=f537e000)12:05
bkalingapid: changes repeatedly12:05
timophbkalinga: please use pastie.org or similar12:05
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alteregoGutted12:07
mirek2there is missing exported one variable in QT12:08
mirek2I think12:08
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bkalingamirek2: you mean export QT_IM_MODULE=MInputContext12:10
mirek2yes and anotherone I think12:10
mirek2ok now I remmember12:11
mirek2soemthing QT_MEEGOGRAPHICSYSTEM or similar12:11
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bkalingawho should export It12:11
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roofboardhas anybody had any luck using garage?12:19
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TheBootroogarage is  not up yet12:21
TheBootrooempty shell / place holder12:21
TheBootroo;-)12:21
roofboardwell... no wonder it doesnt seem to work!12:21
roofboardim having trouble figuring out how to add repositories, i checked out a few recepies online but they didnt seem to pan out and ideas?12:22
lbtI don't think there will be a garage12:23
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lbtjust c. OBS and Apps and so on12:23
roofboardobs?12:24
TheBootroogitorious for projects code12:24
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TheBootroogitorious ROX da wurld12:24
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roofboardumm well does it have a repository? how do i add it?12:25
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lbtroofboard:  http://wiki.meego.com/OBS12:25
roofboardok, i think i get it now!12:26
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roofboardstill no ideas on how to install new repositories?12:29
lbtzypper ar12:30
lbt?12:30
roofboardbecause i need to find a task manager and their is none in the stock set of repos12:31
leowhen i install "meego-ivi-ia32-1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1.img  " in my tablet,I found the resulotion is not correct. My tablet is 1024*600, but the ui only 800*480. The left and bottom border is black.12:31
leohow to fixed this problem?12:32
roofboardis their a quit hot key?12:32
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leoI found someone have commit this bug.https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1245512:34
MeeGoBotBug 12455 nor, Medium, ---, jesse.barnes, NEW, Displayed UI does not adapt to available screen resolution12:34
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timophleo: iirc there was a mailing list discussion about ivi reference ux that ivi people don't really care about the reference ux since manufactures will do their own anyway. So I wouldn't get my hopes up for out of the box great ux with ivi images.12:36
leoBut i install the netbook image. The problem also exist12:39
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lardmanmorning12:40
timophwhy not use the tablet images?12:40
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leoi try all the image include tablet. found the same problem12:41
timophwhat tablet you're using?12:42
timophexopc?12:42
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timophat least on my exopc the resolution is correct12:42
leoMy device is z530+gma500.so i must use "kernel-adaptation-intel-automotive" and "@X for IVI" packages12:42
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timophah. so it's an hardware adaptation issue12:43
timophsince I'd think your device is not one of the supported reference devices12:44
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timophso you'd have to do some adaptation work to get it working correctly12:46
leobut i install this image "http://bug10738.openaos.org/images/nokia_3g_booklet/mg-netbook-ia32-1.1.99.5.20110502.85.iso". every thing is ok12:46
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, tero.kojo, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed12:46
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timophthat's a modified unofficial image12:46
timophapparently it has the needed changes12:47
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timophno idea what those changes are though :)12:48
timophdm8tbr: any idea ^12:48
leois x config's problem?12:51
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iekkuok, i start my vacation now, so next 1,5 weeks i'm not as active here than usually13:02
SpeedEvilGoing somewhere nice?13:03
iekkuSpeedEvil, trying to have life :D nothing special13:04
SpeedEvil:)13:04
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DocScrutinizeris forummeego.com sloooow for anybody else, or is that my carrier's routing?13:08
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SpeedEvilFirefox can't find the server at www.forummeego.com.13:14
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DocScrutinizerforum.meego.com13:16
DocScrutinizersorry13:16
DocScrutinizersome real URL: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?s=24dbf6179cfdef5914133c9eeb885862&t=3597&page=713:17
SpeedEvilloads acceptably fast here13:17
DocScrutinizer(is this git or what? URLs of similar length)13:17
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: thanks13:17
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DocScrutinizerI guess my carrier has some issues. IPv6?13:18
DocScrutinizermigth have to use mtr a bit13:18
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roofboardargh! i cannot figure out how to add more repositories! can anybody help?13:22
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bkalingagconftool-2 shows different value in different console (I logged in multiple terminals to the tablet )13:23
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roofboardnobody?13:29
timophroofboard: zypper ar http://repourl repo-name13:30
timophas root or with sudo13:30
timophthen zypper ref and of you go installing things :)13:31
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roofboardlike this? sudo zypper ar https://git.gitorious.org/meego-community-extras-client/client.git13:31
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roofboardrather... sudo zypper ar git://gitorious.org/meego-community-extras-client/client.git13:33
timophwell that won't work13:34
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timophyou're trying to add a git repo instead of a rpm repo13:34
roofboardok, so gits dont work?13:35
timophgit == version control for source code not packages13:35
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roofboardoh, ok.13:36
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roofboardwell, i tried this http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=56713:39
roofboardno luck.13:39
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roofboardeverybody seems to refrence adding repositories that i guess arent repositories.13:39
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roofboarddoes anybody know of a good guide online for adding repos to meego?13:44
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goshakkkhey everybody13:44
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goshakkkcan anybody tell me how can I send notifications to Events screen from Harmattan app?13:45
roofboardgoshakkk: have you managed to add repositories to meego?13:46
goshakkkroofboard: I have no Nokia N9 Devkit, how can I?13:47
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priyankahas anybody worked on SMACK with meego13:48
roofboardgoshakkk: nevermind, ive just been beading my head against the wall trying to get a new repo on here.13:48
goshakkkroofboard: ok. So I presume you haven't worked with Notifications and Events screen in MeeGo/Harmattan, right>13:50
goshakkkright?*13:50
lcukroofboard, which system?13:50
roofboardgoshakkk: no never heard of it13:51
roofboardmeego 1.2 notebook13:51
goshakkkroofboard: clear13:51
goshakkkSo no one have worked with notifications in harmattan???13:52
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roofboardlcuk: what up? do you know how to get new repos?13:52
Stskeepsgoshakkk: please ask on the appropiate harmattan development forums, if it's not qt, qt mobility it doesn't belong here13:52
andre__goshakkk, this is a MeeGo upstream channel. You talk about an unreleased downstream implementation.13:52
goshakkkStskeeps andre__: ok13:53
lcukroofboard, new repos to do what?13:53
Stskeepsdevelopers.nokia.com would be a good start13:53
goshakkkStskeeps: thanks13:54
roofboardwell, i cannot find a good process manager in the stock repos so i am looking to add a new repository maybe the fedora one13:54
lcukroofboard, are fedora repositories meego compatible?13:55
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roofboardi have no idea!13:55
lcukis that not like trying to install an installshield exe in linux?13:55
lcukwhy not just add debian repos!?13:56
timophlcuk: o/13:56
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roofboardi didnt know i could use .deb13:56
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roofboardthen i guess i could use the repos from ubuntu13:57
roofboardbut reguardless i cannot seem to get them into the package manager!13:57
lcukhiya timoph \o13:57
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder/ITP#P13:57
roofboardand im not that good with command line13:57
lcukhas game repository13:57
lcuktimoph, the space invaders game is qml/qt based13:57
timophcool13:57
timophoh. haven't been keeping my doings in synch with that page :/13:58
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lcuktimoph, its not requirement of course, but it is good to explain to others13:59
timophyep. helps to avoid duplicate work13:59
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lcukroofboard, the available packages directly on meego are not end user full complete every bit of source code ever created since mankind evolved14:00
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lcukbut only the required bits for the ux14:00
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roofboardrightr so i should just have to manually compile everything i want to install?14:01
roofboardok, i got the game,14:01
timophI prefer to package the things I need14:01
lcukroofboard, :D14:01
roofboardwhat does that mean?14:02
timophpackaging?14:02
lcukfollow timoph, he is doing the "build your own lightsabre" approach14:02
lcukand storing the results on his own repository14:02
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timophroofboard: since you seem to be new to packaging I'm sure other (including me) will help you get needed software packaged if you just ask politely :)14:04
roofboarddarn as soon as things start happening its for now i have to make rounds for a few hours :-(14:05
roofboardfour14:05
AranelI want to test newest translations from Transifex, but It looks like my MeeGo 1.2 uses older versions of them. How can I update it?14:05
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timophroofboard: post the things you are missing to the forums. easier to follow them there14:05
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timophoh. he left already..14:07
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MeeGoExpertsReminder: Want to know more about MeeGo ? Get to Birmingham UK TODAY !!!! http://mge.bz/bX #Meetup #Linux #Intel #OpenSource #Nokia #N914:09
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lcukMeeGoExperts, do you have lamars classes there?14:10
MeeGoExpertsFor YOU? Yes !14:10
lcuknot me14:11
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MeeGoExperts:-(14:11
* lcuk not giving birth :P14:11
MeeGoExpertsYou still coming ?14:11
jussiCan anyone point me to how to get Harmattan running in vmware/qemu or so?14:11
timophdeveloper.nokia.com or something?14:12
lcukdon't think so, she is pottering around between show and waters14:12
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* lcuk wearing mac and wellies14:12
MeeGoExpertsMake it if you can. It should be good :-)14:12
* jussi wants to play/start investigating the system14:12
lcukof course it should be good14:12
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MeeGoExperts:-)14:12
MeeGoExpertsBetter if you came …. obviously :-)14:13
iekkujussi, i think the timoph's answer is the only correct one14:13
jussiiekku: a little more detail would be helpful...14:14
Stskeepsjussi: harmattan's practically maemo6, so looking at it would require grabbing nokia's material for it, sdks, etc14:15
lcukvillager!14:16
iekkuhttp://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/14:16
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iekkuthere's the public information14:16
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* timoph is off to spend mid-summer in beautiful eastern Finland14:17
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lcuktimoph, \o/14:17
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X-Fadetimoph: And packaging games I guess? :)14:17
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iekkutimoph, have a nice trip!14:17
X-Fadetimoph: Enjoy midsummer :)14:17
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timophX-Fade: most likely - especially if it rains :)14:18
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lcuktimoph, enjoy your vacation14:18
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timopho/14:18
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X-Fadetimoph: hehe, well let's hope you have nice weather. Get away from it all..14:19
lbttimoph: enjoy :)14:19
kirmadoesn't look too picturesque in helsinki14:20
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kirmacold, rainy and even towards being stormy - elop style treatment for positive attitudes14:21
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dm8tbrtimoph / leo - the images are done by anab1s, there should be a kickstart file together with it which should make it possible to follow up the changes14:28
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lbtMeeGoExperts: pingy14:29
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Nils^hi. Is anyone using meego on the n900 for daily use yet?14:42
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Stskeepssome are trying, but it's definately close14:42
Stskeepstry it out for yourself and submit bug reports14:42
roofboardhey... its repository guy again!14:42
Stskeepsyou better be better than PNG guy14:43
roofboardi got a question am i on the right path i am trying to add this repository well... is this what i should be looking at?14:43
roofboardhttps://gitorious.org/meego-community-extras-client14:43
X-Faderoofboard: No, that doesn't do anything for you yet.14:44
roofboardanybody have a good write up to help me expand my list of software options?14:45
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lcukNils^, it took a massive step closer when we got N900-maemo contacts to be visible and accessible on n900-ce14:47
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lcukas long as you export your contacts from maemo (simple, just open contacts and use the export menu, use default options)14:47
lcukthen whn you flash the meego-ce image, it will mount the eMMC partition and import your contacts14:48
lcuko starting meego with a full complement of friends14:48
roofboardok, well is their a meego-notebook forum?14:49
lcukroofboard, I heard from DawnFoster that she has office installed on her netbook14:50
bkalingai have installed libxkbfile-devel in my qemu terminal; is there a way i can make these available in my MeeGo SDK; so that i can compile meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard component using meego-sdk-qtcreator on my Ubuntu Host machine14:50
lcukso it is possible to add extra repositories14:50
lcukI just don't know which they are14:50
roofboardinteresting,14:51
roofboardi just need to google dawn...14:51
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bkalingai just don't get why MeeGo SDK is not developer friendly or i have some fundamentally wrong concept how to use an SKD  :(14:54
lcukbkalinga, elite class developers only14:54
lcukyou must level up14:54
MSMbkalinga  yum install beer first14:55
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bkalingamy fundamental says SDK should give all the dependencies to build the code, else some how we can add the missing component to it14:57
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Nils^stskeeps, lcuk: I'm doing a maemo backup right now and then I will try to install meego14:57
lcukbkalinga, what sdk do you have and what are you trying to build?14:57
lcukNils^, \o/14:58
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lcukif you are installing onto MicroSD, flashing the kernel in once only mode is simple and unobtrusive14:58
bkalingai have MeeGo 1.2 sdk and trying to build meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard  taken from git14:58
lcukbkalinga, ok14:58
lcukcall into #meego-inputmethods14:58
bkalinganow libxkbfile-devel is missing in my MeeGo 1.2 SDK14:58
Nils^lcuk: has internal install better performance?14:58
lcukand ask for hint on whether your sdk is configured correctly14:59
lcukor what else you need to build14:59
Nils^I have a backup now, I don't care if my maemo breaks. I have to reflash it anyway since custom kernels and apps broke the system partly14:59
bkalingahow  #meego-inputmethods will help me if libxkbfile-devel is missing in my system14:59
lcukNils^, it removes ability to maintain maemo14:59
lcukwhich is very negative14:59
bkalingai can install that using zypper install libxkbfile-devel15:00
lcukbkalinga, because the inputmethods people build the inputmethodkeyboard everyday15:00
bkalingabut after installing that is part of runtime15:00
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* lcuk bangs head15:00
lcukbkalinga, so if it is installed what is the problem?15:00
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Nils^lcuk: maintain maemo means...? Can I reflash with maemo if I want it back?15:00
kavachaI am trying to use mic-image-creator, I have updated the .ks file to add my own repo, and added the extra packages that I want.  But it does not just add the packages I want to the image it adds the contents of the whole repo15:01
lcukNils^, you can reflash it yeah15:01
bkalingazypper install libxkbfile-devel makes the package part of meego-tablet-ia32-qemu-1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1-runtime15:01
lcukbut to date the normal meego build has been onto microsd and simpler15:01
lcuk:)15:01
kavachaany idea how I can jsut get it to add the 2 packages that I want ?15:01
Nils^lcuk: as long I can go back to the factory settings its ok.15:01
lcuk:D Nils^ let us know your experiences then15:02
bkalingabut not available in my build libraries (i build using meego-sdk-qtcreator)15:02
lcukbkalinga, application sdk vs system sdk?15:03
bkalingaluck: in wiki its given that we can follow 2 approaches15:03
bkalingaone is qemu15:03
bkalingaone is Xypher15:04
bkalingai am following QEMU15:04
bkalingai installed MeeGo1.2 SDK15:04
bkalingathen launch meego-tablet-ia32-qemu-1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1-runtime15:04
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bkalingathen login to it using ssh meego@127.0.0.1 -p 666615:05
bkalinganow i get the qemu console there i can install the  libxkbfile-devel15:05
bkalingausing zypper install libxkbfile-devel15:05
lcukbkalinga, ok and which git repository did you get the latest inputmethodskeyboard package from15:05
alteregolcuk: any mail today?15:06
alterego(post)15:06
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bkalingaluck:# On branch master15:07
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bkalingaluck :/usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/sysroots/meego-tablet-ia32-madde-sysroot-1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1-fs/  this contains the SDK header file and libraries15:08
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bkalinganow is there any elegant way so that we can add missing component to the SDK15:08
lcukluovanto15:09
lcuk15:09
lcuk@lcuk N950 in use? I simply want liqbase to Ovi Store asap and will learn to code myself if that's it what it takes :)15:09
* alterego chuckles15:09
SpeedEvilWould - in principle - liqbase be the 'window manager'15:09
lcuknice words from the designer of swipe.nokia.com15:09
alteregoWho said that lcuk ?15:09
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alteregoAh luovanto15:09
lcuki showed the project_42 screenshot from last night http://liqbase.net/liq.20110623_015300.liqbase-playground.scr.png15:10
X-FadeHehe, those videos of luovanto with the device walking through singapore. Priceless :)15:10
lcukberndhs offered the name for the new programming language15:10
pabs3X-Fade: got a link?15:11
X-Fadepabs3: In the initial Engadget article.15:11
Nils^lcuk: do you know where the contact backup file is if I exported it with the internal maemo export?15:16
lcukNils^, on English devices:15:16
lcukMyDocs/Exported contacts/*.vcard15:16
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lcukone file per contact15:16
lcuk15:17
lcukluovanto Jussi Mäkinen15:17
lcuk@lcuk & @jaffa2 Consider it taken care of as I get back to Finland.15:17
lcukJaffa, :D:D:D15:17
Nils^ah, I had to update my sftp client..15:17
* lcuk does a little dance15:18
alteregoThat's not fair.15:18
alteregoWhat about me!15:18
* alterego chuckles15:18
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jussiBah, too many finns involved with meego, so much chance of random hilights15:18
lcukjussi, :D15:19
SpeedEvillcuk: It couldn't have happened to a more deserving person.15:20
SpeedEvil(that I can remember at the moment - there probably are 391 people I've just moretally offended)15:20
alteregolcuk: tell him to send me one if you want me help :P15:20
lcuk:)15:20
lcukI do want your help alterego15:20
lcukyou know what we discussed last weekend, and to do even some of it will need all the various OSes around Nokia ;)15:21
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pexihttp://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/editorial-dear-nokia-you-cannot-be-serious/15:22
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Nils^mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-stable/                             22.06.2011 23:46       -15:22
alteregolcuk: see tweet :P15:22
Nils^mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-testing/15:22
Nils^which of these?15:22
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lcukalterego, seen and noted :)15:24
alteregoHah, that isn't a contractual obligation!15:25
* alterego chuckles15:25
alteregoBut you have my help :)15:25
lcukalterego, will need the help of quite a few more if we are to bring meego together properly15:26
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alteregoIndeed15:26
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alteregolcuk: have you had mail today?15:32
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lcukalterego, yes but only with lukes clothes mountain15:35
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alterego:)15:35
lcukhe ordered a couple of pairs of shoes and a mountain of new gear15:35
alteregoshit: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/23/nokias-first-windows-phone-images-and-video/15:36
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TermanaOOOOHHH15:37
TermanaTROLOLOLOLO15:37
TermanaYou all been trolled15:37
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Nils^I have a problem with flashing. the flasher says Unable to enumerate USB devices!15:38
lcukalterego, hackers device.15:39
lcukchill15:39
Nils^is this a problem that can be solved with    -u      Specifiy an alternate usb interface. Default usb0 (optional)15:39
Nils^?15:39
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alteregoNils^: -U is of the format 0000:000015:40
alteregoYou need to use lsusb to find the the bus and device numbers15:40
Nils^Bus 001 Device 014: ID 0421:01c7 Nokia Mobile Phones N900 (Storage Mode)15:40
alteregoSorry it's 000:00015:40
alteregoSo something like -U 002:00315:40
Termanaalterego, I'd like to see what else he said, more than what's in the video15:40
alteregoTermana: yeah.15:41
alterego"Oh change of rules _you_ need an N9 or N950 to get in tonight"15:41
alteregoWhat a joker :P15:41
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lcukDocScrutinizer, ping15:45
DocScrutinizerlcuk: pong15:45
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DocScrutinizermoo wazzup?15:46
lcukhey Doc, we seem to have a small niggle in the n900-ce15:46
lcukrelating to keyboard backlights15:46
DocScrutinizershoot15:46
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lcukwe don't know how to get them to turn on properly15:46
DocScrutinizeraah15:46
DocScrutinizeryou need access to LP552315:46
DocScrutinizersysfs15:47
lcuki think it is related to maliit/input methods too so mikhas and araujo would normally be pinged15:47
lcukahh15:47
lcuksimilar to how MohammadAG turned on the knight rider lights?15:47
DocScrutinizeryep15:47
lcukahh15:47
lcukbut was that not monitored by mce or something?15:48
lcuki remember having to disable something15:48
DocScrutinizerI discourrage following mce's idiotic method of wasting an engine for that15:48
lcuksure15:48
lcukwe are in meego15:48
lcukso not same issue15:48
lcuk:) just discussing what has been highlighted as an issue15:48
ShadowJKknight rider lights? :)15:48
lcukShadowJK, MohammadAG showed me a script to turn each light on the n900 keyboard on15:49
DocScrutinizerif your 'mce' doesn't do that engine3-foo then simply echo 100>kb-led:*/brightness15:49
lcukwanted to do a VU with them15:49
lcukso I did knight rider thing with em ;)15:49
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DocScrutinizer  /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb1/brightness15:50
DocScrutinizer...kb6/15:50
ShadowJKwell, start it in meego, ctrl-c, and check if it stays in the position you stopped it in. Expose als to different levels of light, close/pen keyboard. If leds went out, some app turned them off15:50
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DocScrutinizer*some* app? ;-P15:51
DocScrutinizer~lart mce15:51
* infobot installs PocketPC on mce's PDA15:51
ShadowJKled_current seems to work better than brightness. try 50 for led current, maemo seems to use that15:52
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MohammadAGShadowJK, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3pvdFpA1II :P15:53
DocScrutinizeryou might want to check /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb*/led_current which is 50 on maemo15:53
DocScrutinizermeh, ShadowJK beaten me15:53
DocScrutinizerI recommend not to play too much with led_current, it's just the setting for max allowable electrical current thru LED, and you might burn LED when messing with this value15:55
DocScrutinizerunit 0.1mA iirc15:55
ShadowJKbrightness seems to do nothing15:55
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DocScrutinizerso 5mA sounds about right for that type of component15:56
ShadowJK0, 100, 255. emitted light doesn't change15:56
ShadowJKseems only led_current makes any difference15:56
DocScrutinizerstrange15:56
DocScrutinizermake sure engine is disabled15:56
DocScrutinizeralso, for obvious reasons, don't enter any command on device's kbd ;-P15:57
DocScrutinizeror simply kill mce15:57
DocScrutinizerthe bugger15:57
DocScrutinizeralso check you haven't got that broken LP5523 driver that comes with powerkernel, it has a "fix" that's breaking more than it actually fixes16:00
* ShadowJK doesn't have powerkernel16:00
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DocScrutinizeryeah, I see same problem here atm, alas I can't follow up and investigate right now, have to get fuel for gray mater16:01
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DocScrutinizerI know however I played with this stuff last year when moh asked me how to build such knightrider thing iirc, and I'm sure I didn't touch led_current16:02
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DocScrutinizer /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/16:06
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DocScrutinizer  cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/engine3_mode ;# probably16:07
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DocScrutinizer  echo load >/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/engine3_mode; echo 255 >/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/leds\:lp5523\:kb3/brightness16:13
DocScrutinizerworks on completely idle and locked device16:13
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DocScrutinizerHTH16:13
DocScrutinizero/16:13
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Nils^FINALLY its flashing.. i hope.. I see something on the n900 screen but its very dark.16:14
Stskeepsgive it a bit16:14
Nils^it says something about cannot assign (network) adress. But that shouldn't be a problem I guess16:14
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Jaffalcuk: :-)16:16
Jaffalcuk: But luovanto could be taking a traditional Nordic summer holiday and spending 6 weeks in Asia ;-)16:16
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lcukJaffa, that is ok by me16:20
lcukI have waited long enough to see this, a few more weeks are ok by me :)16:20
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Nils^should I see anything during installl? anywhere?16:21
Nils^n900 inst16:21
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lcukNils^, dd copy is mostly void of illumination16:23
lcukwould you like to offer a patch to allow playing games whilst dd progresses?16:23
DocScrutinizerlcuk: you seen my last cmdline post?16:24
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lcukDocScrutinizer, oh awesome16:25
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lcukis that on meego-ce?16:25
DocScrutinizerjust make sure yiur led_current is on 50 (default)16:25
lcukhave you tried the summer version?16:25
DocScrutinizernope, maemo16:25
DocScrutinizersysfs path may differ on meego16:25
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DocScrutinizersuggest find /sys -name '*5523*'16:26
DocScrutinizer(which is btw how a lot of system scripts deal with the ever changing sysfs pathnames)16:27
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DocScrutinizercan I have my N9 with meego-proper and kbd now, please? ;-P16:28
TermanaYou can have an N9 with meego-proper16:29
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Termanaand I can tape a bluetooth keyboard on for you16:29
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DocScrutinizerwith plutonium cell for power please16:30
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Nils^lcuk: since 20 minutes the n900 screen shows "Starting netcat for initial connection check". or maybe something different, its hard to read. there seems to be no light in the screen. its dark-grey on black :)16:38
StskeepsNils^: ah, you're doing emmc install16:39
lcukNils^, did you install the normal way onto microsd, or did you try the eMMC16:39
Nils^eMMC16:39
Nils^this is my host terminal output http://pastebin.com/2LPbQvvN16:39
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DocScrutinizerwhat kind of "mce" do you guys use for meego ?16:42
Termanaalterego, full video: http://www.technet.hu/telefon/20110624/exkluziv_video_elop_bemutatja_az_elso_windowsos_nokiat/16:42
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: mce16:42
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DocScrutinizeraaaah, yes. Does it mess with kbd backlight?16:43
Stskeepsnot afaik16:43
Stskeepswell, not atm16:43
DocScrutinizerfair enough16:43
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t_janyone know if its possible to run on a CPU that does not have SSE3?16:43
Stskeepsyes, but it wouldn't be meego/meego compliant16:44
DocScrutinizerthen the echo load >engine3 maybe isn't needed, but maybe some other init stuff for LP5523 isn't done properly without mce16:44
t_jStskeeps: i guess i would have to build my own version?  looking for something to run navigation on an old via c3 1.2ghz board16:46
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Stskeepst_j: yeah, basically, set up a obs, import meego source, modify compiler flags, let it brew for a week16:47
t_jStskeeps: i cant cross build on a fater box for it?16:47
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Stskeepst_j: well, obs would be on a faster box ;)16:48
t_jhumm its IVI nagigation seems to just be navit..16:49
alteregoTermana: can't watch it right now, is it as bleak as that post seems to infur?16:50
DocScrutinizercould somebody test >> for led in `find /sys -name 'leds:lp5523*kb?'`; do echo $led; echo 255 >${led}/brightness; done16:51
Termanaalterego, I'm not sure. It's 21 minutes, I'm only 3 into it. It's not loading well, keeps buffering.16:51
DocScrutinizerand tell me if this lights up kbd backlight16:51
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Stskeepst_j: there should be better qt based things out there, it's just a reference anyway16:52
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: is mce managin indicator patterns as usual?16:54
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: afaik16:54
qgilHi, someone is asking in the MeeGo forum how to force fullscreen in a Qt Quick app using components but I can't find the documentation or a code example.16:54
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Stskeepsqgil: mainWindow.something, probably16:54
qgilMy usual contacts are out of reach, probably in their way to the Finnish countryside since a long weekend is just starting  :)16:54
DocScrutinizerso module lp5523 should be loaded16:54
Stskeepsqgil: mainWindow.showFullScreen(), i think16:54
DocScrutinizerhi qgil16:55
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alteregoit should be showFullScreen()16:56
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: could you take a minute to test that shell cmdline ^^^ ?16:56
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alteregoHow are qt components apps launched?16:56
alteregoNot qmlviewer?16:56
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i'm deep in fixing glibc and my n900 with meego is charging16:56
DocScrutinizeroh, so not then :-)16:57
alteregoI'll do it, hang on.16:57
DocScrutinizer:-)16:57
DocScrutinizerthanks16:57
qgilthanks!16:57
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lcuk\o qgil16:58
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DocScrutinizerI think lcuk should test it ;-P he asked16:58
DocScrutinizerlcuk: for led in `find /sys -name 'leds:lp5523*kb?'`; do echo $led; echo 255 >${led}/brightness; done16:59
lcukDocScrutinizer, yes, sidetracked with family will test when I boot it up in a short while16:59
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Nils^ok.. 40 minutes of initial netcat is enough. This looks like the install is totally stuck17:00
DocScrutinizerhah, yeah17:01
StskeepsNils^: i'd put it in a wall charger by now17:01
Nils^Stskeeps: I have the usb port blocked by the usb cable :)17:01
DocScrutinizerwhich is good enough for chager17:02
Nils^after ctrl+c there is something new on the display, but its so hard to read...17:02
alteregoDocScrutinizer: yes it works17:02
DocScrutinizerthanks17:02
alteregoI now have a backlit keyboard ;)17:03
qgilalterego: URL anywhere? In the docs I can onmly can find references about QmainWindow17:03
alteregoqgil: I'm not sure with qt components, do you know how they're launching the application?17:03
Nils^expecting image type: bz2; checking where to write the image; can't open /some/path no such file or directory17:03
DocScrutinizerso, if you're keen to see that friggin fade-in/out effect of maemo for kbs bl, do it in a for loop via sw, ramping up brightness from 0...255 - don't use engine_3 of lp5523 for that as mce in maemo does, please17:04
Nils^well this looks like an error17:04
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lcukqgil, high 5 on the n9 :) most impressive to see it17:05
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qgilalterego: a guy is asking how to do this with QWidget, and my answer is that he should go better for Qt Quick - and I want to send him to the right doc page describing how to use mainWindow17:05
qgilthx lcuk - finally I can do something better than putting a poker face17:06
lcukhope this means more villagers now for the next conference17:06
* gabrbedd cues Lady Gaga17:07
DocScrutinizeror, at very least, don't *permanently* occupy one engine for that. As indicator light and kbd bl ramp-up/down are virtually mutually exclusive usecases, you could use one engine to do the ramping for kbd, the restore that engine to previous state and free it up again17:07
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alteregoqgil: using qwidget is fine, he just needs to call showFullScreen in his C++ code instead of show()17:07
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qgilalterego: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23114&postcount=417:08
qgil"QWidget::showFullScreen() doesn't work on Harmattan (at least in QEMU-runtime)."17:09
alteregoInteresting ..17:10
Stskeepsthat sounds worrying17:10
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Stskeepsqgil: ask the guy to dpkg -e meegotouch-qt-style or whatever it's named and see if it helps any (even though it de-theme's stuff)17:10
* Stskeeps has to go to dinner17:10
Stskeepsbbl17:10
DocScrutinizerlcuk: alterego confirmed the cmdline works17:10
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alteregoOkay, I'll recommend he put his qwidget in a main window using setCentralWidget17:11
Nils^I'm flashing maemo back and then try to install meego on a microsd card17:11
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alteregoUnless you wanna? :)17:12
DocScrutinizerqgil: any chances to get the N9(50) hw schematics (under NDA if needed) to help me give technical advice for that device?17:12
lcuk++ if possible from me17:12
alteregoI think he should get them too :)17:12
* MohammadAG votes for that too17:13
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alteregoReally looking forward to getting Columbus working on an N9(50) with magnetic compass :)17:14
SpeedEvil:)17:14
alteregoAnd it'll force me to QML-ify the rest.17:14
MohammadAGI have lots of projects in mind17:14
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alteregoIt's gonna look so cool, those rings in my compass widget were intended to show both gps bearing and compass needle :)17:15
alteregoBut now I can tell which way the device is oriented! :D17:15
qgilalterego: I've posted a reply17:15
MohammadAGoh right, we have a compass :D17:15
alteregoOkay, cheers,17:15
alteregoThere looks to be an actual compass app already, But Columbus is obviously better ;)17:15
alteregoIt'll also mean I can get it updated for maemo5, meego ce and harmattan17:16
alteregoShould be cool.17:16
qgilQWidget might sound like a good idea for someone used to it, but then if you look at the rest of the questions you see that he will probably have a better live with Qt Quick & components: nice swipes and text forms knowing how to deal automatically with the hardware keyboard17:16
qgilDocScrutinizer: contact http://developer.nokia.com for any professional related requests17:17
DocScrutinizerqgil: will do17:17
DocScrutinizeralas I think they aren't interested17:17
alteregoqgil: I was told that usb host should be easier in N9(50) devices, do you have any info on that?17:18
lcukDocScrutinizer, apply for a developer device17:18
DocScrutinizeras that's strictly community, not professional17:18
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, do let me know if you get a device and if you find bq* or other documented bms related chips :-)17:18
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I did17:18
lcukand put your very clear reasoning and what beneifts you can bring17:18
alteregoAnd how it might be different to N900?17:18
lcukgood :)17:18
lcukthen those that are not daft will examine and check and see whats what17:18
lcukyou do not know until you hear back17:18
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* ShadowJK 'd want to make a realtime power gauge tool for N9 too, but it's always hardware specific stuff17:19
DocScrutinizerlcuk: (very clear reasoning) too late :-) I just mentioned general hw, low level drive, and kernel stuff, incl apps to fix thing, and referred to konttori for the rest17:20
lcukyou can modify your submission17:21
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DocScrutinizeraaah, might do17:21
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DocScrutinizerwon't help for the schematics either way17:21
lcukI have heard about some great potential projects for this17:21
lcukmaybe, maybe not17:21
lcukbut it would hark back to the Amiga days17:21
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lcukwhere out of the box you got schematics17:21
DocScrutinizeryeah17:22
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ShadowJKspeaking of schematics, seen what google has done for accessories?17:22
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TermanaShadowJK, what?17:23
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qgilDocScrutinizer: well, in the way you describe it it is not easy even for me to see the interest  :)17:25
DocScrutinizerof schematics sharing?17:25
qgilalterego: no idea about usb-host but if you can get ahold of Kate Alhola I suspect she knows17:25
DocScrutinizeror of application for DDP17:25
qgilDocScrutinizer: "community" and "NDA" don'0t mix well, that is the problem17:26
DocScrutinizerI'm aware of that problem17:27
ShadowJKAndroid Open Accessory kit. Specs for talking and interfacing to android devices. The net is now full of electronics kits with MCUs and some I/O, for building oyour own add-on and rapid prototyping :)17:27
qgilDocScrutinizer: looks difficult to circunvent17:27
DocScrutinizerI don't know about Nokia internals, but I can see this getting difficult, yes17:28
DocScrutinizerI learned the hard way from inside how hard it is to disclose hw related things ;-)17:29
alteregoqgil: how long after the closing date of N9 devkit ddp do you expect to send out notices and devices? (Though I guess devices are up to developer.nokia.com)17:29
DocScrutinizereven while this isn't exactly "disclosing" it would still need an NDA to not be that17:29
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DocScrutinizerNDAs with non-contractors are very hard to issue usually17:30
alteregoDocScrutinizer: wondering whether you're more likely to get the schematics for N950 over N917:30
DocScrutinizersorry?17:30
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alteregoI'm wondering whether you're more likely to get schematics for the N950 rather than the N917:32
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alteregoIf you were thinking of asking for the latter.17:32
alteregoAdmittedly the should be somewhat identical.17:32
DocScrutinizerthat's been my point of asking for N9(50) schematics17:33
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DocScrutinizerI guess N9 won't fly no matter what, until first N9 hit the public somehow17:33
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alteregoIndeed.17:34
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DocScrutinizerfor N950 if I'd receive a developer device, I already got whole the info that's in schematic, though admittedly in a very hard to read formatting ;-)17:34
alteregoHeh :)17:35
alteregoI expect you to do the first disassembly ;)17:35
DocScrutinizerthere's no secret in schematics that's not in device hw as well, and can get out from there as well17:35
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: usb-host adaptation for n9(50) is on the top of my todo list if I get one17:36
dm8tbrshouldn't be that hard, did similar things for other OMAP3 hardware17:36
MohammadAGI'm interested in how to disassemble the N9 :P17:36
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: I never had succeeded on H-E-N without the N900 schematicsa17:36
MohammadAGonly way I can think of is prying the glass from the body17:37
dm8tbrMohammadAG: I think it actually is something like that17:37
dm8tbrMohammadAG: somebody mentioned that after I said that taking the back off the n950 is funky17:37
MohammadAGdm8tbr, that would ruin one of either parts17:38
dm8tbryesterday at the meegofi picnic17:38
dm8tbrMohammadAG: I guess the service manual will surface at some point :)17:38
dm8tbrbesides this thing is obviously not intended to be taken apart17:39
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SpeedEvilAnyway - it's polycarbonate - all you need is a soldering iron to remove the case.17:39
SpeedEvil(not of n950)17:39
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MohammadAGo_O17:39
qgilAh, Soumya helped me finding a good example of fullscreen app http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/qt-components/qt-components-example-flickr.html alterego17:39
DocScrutinizerI guess Konttori is probably in a better position to do anything about hw docs17:39
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: I talked to jukka and he promised to get me in touch with the right people here in Hervanta17:39
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alteregoqgil: great :) /me bookmarks ;)17:40
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: regarding what?17:40
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: USB port on the n917:40
DocScrutinizeraah17:40
DocScrutinizerwell, if it's similar to N900, it's mainly about hw details17:41
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: btw on the n900 there is no 5V on the connector, right? (i know it's a micro-b and not supposed to but you never knwo)17:41
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: sorry?17:41
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: sure we got 5V@200mA VBUS17:41
dm8tbrah, ok17:41
dm8tbrthat's interesting :)17:41
DocScrutinizerone of the details I figured from schematics17:42
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, you sure the N9 doesn't have the same connector on the N8?17:42
dm8tbryes, such things you can mostly only do with schematics17:42
DocScrutinizerand from looking into hw for the actual component used ;-)17:42
SpeedEvilTo be fair - you could have just tried to enable it from the chip datasheets17:42
dm8tbrMohammadAG: I verified it's a micro-b not an micro-ab17:42
SpeedEvilBut details are hard.17:42
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: no idea, just know N950 in that video has same B type as N90017:43
dm8tbrSpeedEvil: musb is harder usually :)17:43
SpeedEvilI know.17:43
SpeedEvildm8tbr: I've read a lot of versions of the TI datasheet on the subject.17:43
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dm8tbrI wonder if there is a stable way of switching personality on OMAP3 MUSB _without_ reloading the musb_hdrc kernel module nowadays17:44
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DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: SpeedEvil helped a lot on getting H-E-N on its feet17:44
SpeedEvil'Can I have a replacement loan device please - my existing one has failed due to low quality construction. All the components fell off the PCB, and the chips appear to be burned by acid, exposing all their dies.'17:45
dm8tbr:D17:45
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: lol, the problem isn't the kernel module, the problem is the musb core itself17:45
dm8tbryou'd probably also have burn marks from the OMAP spontaneously de-poping itself17:45
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: it's a multilevel clusterf*ck as far as I know :)17:46
SpeedEvildm8tbr: I know.17:46
SpeedEvildm8tbr: I've considered in sillier moments a RAM upgrade for the n900.17:46
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: the solution I have seen that works is unloading and reloading musb_hdrc and it works reliably on Archos hardware now in 3rd generation hardware that's omap3 based17:46
SpeedEvilI can't find anyone that'll ship the required part though.17:47
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SpeedEvilThis would also allow a speed bump too - which is nice.17:47
dm8tbrSpeedEvil: got the reballing gear? that stuff is awesome17:47
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: we got some special issues at least on N90017:47
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dm8tbryeah, seem to remember that on n900 there was some external part involved too17:47
SpeedEvildm8tbr: No. I think that reflowing the POP should be possible fairly ghetto.17:47
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: which made Nokia claim hostmode is impossible on N900, until we implemented it nevertheless17:48
SpeedEvildm8tbr: Simply doing it in a nitrogen atmosphere.17:48
SpeedEvilThey diddn't.17:48
SpeedEvilThey said OTG wasn't possible.17:48
SpeedEvilAnd it's not.17:48
dm8tbrlet's not talk about OTG :D17:48
dm8tbrjust host mode will be enough17:48
SpeedEvilIndeed.17:48
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: not exactly17:49
DocScrutinizerI seem to recall somebody (paul, sarah?) asked explicitely about hostmode sw driven, and the answer was as usual17:49
DocScrutinizerand hell they were almost right17:50
SpeedEvilOk - fair enough. The initial comment was that OTG wasn't possible, and my memory is that all of the subsequent queries diddn't really address if hostmode was possible.17:50
DocScrutinizerif there wasn't TEST_HOSTMODE17:50
DocScrutinizererr FORCE_HOSTMODE17:50
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: so you might have guessed it, we're already keen to see if H-E-N might work on N9-5017:51
DocScrutinizeryou're more than welcome to join the team17:52
DocScrutinizer:-)17:52
dm8tbrbtw: is the collected n900 host mode stuff available as a wiki page or so? I just dont feel like reading 250 pages thread17:52
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: I would have been _very_ disappointed if you guys wouldn't be17:52
DocScrutinizeralas the compression factor isn't really better the 1:1017:52
DocScrutinizerso you still would end with 25 pages17:52
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dm8tbrstill I prefer high SNR :)17:53
DocScrutinizersure17:53
DocScrutinizerbut it's just too much work probably, so nobody did theat duty yet17:53
dm8tbr*nod*17:53
dm8tbrbtw: does the n900CE support the HEN thing?17:54
DocScrutinizerI once started with an effort to keep a double linked list on tmo once, from useful post to useful post17:54
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DocScrutinizerI gave up17:54
DocScrutinizer(n900ce) dunno, should if they get the right kernel patches17:55
dm8tbrfor me wiki pages work better for those things, the number of people necessary for pages to flourish is surprisingly low17:55
DocScrutinizerit's basically *just* kernel patches17:56
dm8tbrwe should talk to kimju then17:56
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DocScrutinizerwell, either we get hostmode running "ootb" as everything's absolutely standard, or we have a very hard time unless we get schematics17:57
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DocScrutinizerfor N9(50)17:57
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dm8tbryes, I'm hoping for the former17:58
dm8tbrpassive USB host should be fairly easy, but totally inelegant17:59
DocScrutinizerand while SpeedEvil 's approach is tempting - modulo the acid to free the dies - I think it won't really fly17:59
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dm8tbrthe interesting bit will be the 5V I guess17:59
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ctusaraoeu18:00
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dm8tbri18:00
TheBootroohello18:00
ShadowJKIf N9 has the same battery charging chip as N900 (bq27200), we should be able to enable 5V out18:01
Termanahey TheBootroo18:01
ShadowJKafter figuring out how to push bme aside for awhile18:01
ShadowJKsorry, bq24150, not 2720018:01
TermanaTheBootroo, that launcher picture you linked to yesterday, I'm wondering, was that just a mock-up or a working example?18:02
ShadowJKOn N900 there's a .128Ohm "phantom" resistance (not in the leaked schematics, possibly result of poor pcb design?) that makes battery charging about 30-50% slower than it would have to be18:02
TheBootroosome of you remember this morning i talk about a new UX i'm trying to dev for MeeGo CE for handset and tablets ? i had posted screenshots, now i have a working test case (not finished though) and overall a gitorious repos whre you can dl and compile onqt sdk for windows / linux / maemo / meego ... no need for a device or emulator it can run on standard computer dekstop, and give feedback18:02
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: the drivers upstream suggest it's no bq24150 but something like bq2415818:03
* ShadowJK wonders if that is fixed on N9 too18:03
TheBootrooTermana: the answer is in my msg above18:03
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: No - it's not a functional approach unless you have a professional lab do that. And that's expensive.18:03
TheBootroohere is my gitorious for that https://gitorious.org/meego-community-mobile-ux-ng18:03
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Reverse engineering properly takes a _lot_ of effort18:03
SpeedEvilI got a ping from the BME status bug - it's still closed on n95018:04
ShadowJKon the other hand, on N900 the power management chip (Gaia, TWL5030?) also has +5V boost capability, but it's nonfunctional due to missing components18:04
DocScrutinizeryep, and that's probably ok, as otherwise we'd get problems with bq24150 charging from twl4030 chargepump ;-P18:05
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Don't be silly.18:05
SpeedEvil_massive_ new market from the free energy crows.18:05
SpeedEvilcrowd18:05
dm8tbr:D18:06
dm8tbrn900, the device that charges itself!18:06
* SpeedEvil tries to work out the real sie of batery in his UPS.18:06
* ShadowJK remembers people charging their N810 from N810 musb port in hostmode ...18:06
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: you see it's *not* that straigt forward quite usually18:06
jonwilWill the N9/N950 be using the Maemo5 telephony and networking stack or the MeeGo ofono stack? I havent seen that mentioned anywhere...18:07
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: yeah, archos made it too easy, there it's just a sysfs entry that you toggle to get 5V :)18:07
Termanajonwil, not ofono18:07
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jonwilso it will be using some up-port of the N900 stack then I guess18:07
ShadowJKSo if GAIA equivalent has boost capability, we'd need to shove bme aside, tell charger chip to disable charging, enable boost from gaia equivalent :P18:08
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: I recently had a private query for help from an EE that did something "similar to N900" and seems they had exactly that problem with charging18:08
DocScrutinizerhe nuked a component that way ;-P18:08
dm8tbrcue the magic smoke :)18:09
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that'd be the 'normal' way, yes18:09
Termanadm8tbr, that means it's working! You've kicked the tyres18:10
Termana:p18:10
TheBootrooTermana: do you like what you see ?18:10
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TermanaTheBootroo, it looks ok from the screenshot. Not sure whether I would personally use it vs Harmattan's UX but maybe I would use it vs the MeeGo default UX - I would have to try it.18:11
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TheBootrooTermana: so try it18:11
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TheBootrooTermana: i posted the link to my gitorious18:12
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: you might want to join hostmode channel, you got invited. We're few that left over there, but I guess it's still the most appropriate channel for engineer chitchat about hostmode18:12
TheBootrooand ui has changed18:12
TheBootrooa littel18:12
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TermanaTheBootroo, it's 1 AM here and I don't have everything installed to go on a compiling spree right now. But, I'm curious, it seems like your just using in-built icons? So at the moment it has no actually functionality to allow other applications to be shown via .desktop files or whatever?18:14
Termanaactual*18:14
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TheBootrooTermana: it's a prototype for now for it uses test cases18:15
TheBootroobut i will impleement freedesktop.org files18:15
TheBootrooit does look like this atm (not finished, see the TODO list on the gitorious) : http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/519347Capture8.png18:15
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TheBootroothe way i put a kinda squircle around the icons allow to use standard icons and having the same frame around, just like anna for symbia,18:17
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TermanaTheBootroo, what would be nice (and I'm not sure if it already does this or is listed in the to-do notes) is if you could click the category bar (say like the bar that says "media") and it would expand and contract the category18:18
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TheBootrooTermana: already done18:20
TheBootroomiss only a visual indicator for open and closed bars18:20
TheBootrooi find this way to do much slicker than subfolders18:20
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TheBootroooh, and the whole ux can scale without a problem from nHD (360x640) to HD ready (1280x720)  so it suits for handsets and tablets18:22
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TheBootroohere is the thread on forum for comments and suggestions, since i have to go now, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=308118:22
TheBootroobye18:23
TheBootroosee you tomorow18:23
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Termanacya TheBootroo18:23
TheBootrooor maybe later tonight if i success to connect from home18:24
TheBootroociao18:24
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siavoshkcwhats the SE W810 CPU? can I run meego one it?18:25
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siavoshkcon it*18:25
Stskeepsdoubt it18:27
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siavoshkcI searched but was unable to find its platform18:29
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Stskeepssigned images, etc18:29
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siavoshkcsigned images??18:37
hiemanshuthe ROMs need to be signed18:39
siavoshkcwhat does it had to do with my W810?18:45
StskeepsW810 requires signed images18:45
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siavoshkcI will sign it18:48
siavoshkclol18:48
TermanaI don't think you understand the concept of signed images18:49
TermanaIt means that the hardware will not work without a image loaded on being signed by the manufacture.18:50
siavoshkcTermana: what I know about it is that I can't put my image in it18:50
TermanaYou can sign it all you like and it will fail unless you have their private key18:50
siavoshkcis it a public key scheme?18:50
siavoshkcwhy not just copy it from current image?18:52
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hiemanshusiavoshkc: its not possible to do so, otherwise I would run meego on every other device I have owned :P18:57
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siavoshkcwhat is the barrier?18:58
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lcukgood morning DawnFoster \o19:02
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siavoshkcummmm19:03
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siavoshkcthey shoul create a key by combining private key and image hash19:04
DawnFosterhey lcuk19:04
lcukDawnFoster, a few people have been asking of late, where did you get office installed onto your netbook meego install?19:05
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lcukI recall you saying it was installed on yours19:05
DawnFosterI installed LibreOffice19:05
DawnFosterinstructions are on the wiki19:05
DawnFosteryou have to install java first19:05
DawnFosterworks pretty well on the latest netbook images19:06
lcukoh cool, so that is http://wiki.meego.com/LibreOffice19:06
lcukDawnFoster, I wonder what it would require to get it properly on obs for a simpler install path19:07
slaineI find the netbook a poor device for running those kinds off apps.19:07
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lcukthose instructions look kinda similar to liqbase ones too, I suppose in general we need to find a simpler more accessible install mechanism for people19:08
slaineThe 600 high screen means you loose too much usable space19:08
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lcukslaine, I find only the alt-tab transitions to be most annoying19:08
lcukactually *working* on the ideapad is difficult because of them19:08
slaineI don't mean the UX, I mean office apps and toolbars galor19:08
lcukI tried finding out how to reduce them19:08
lcuksimple apps only for me, gedit, console, folder view19:08
slainelcuk, you'd have to edit the mutter plugin19:08
slainesnap19:09
lcukbut the folder view opens new instances of gedit (instead of tabs)19:09
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lcukso that switching between documents19:09
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lcukinduces the awful pan/slide/pan effect19:09
slaineI'm running F15 on another partition and finding I'm there more and more now19:09
lcukthat is the worst usability issue19:09
lcukit hurts my head muchly whenever I alt-tab19:10
slaineYou can see a lot of the moblin/meego netbook ux influence in gnome-shell19:10
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lcukcan I add an app bar to netbook?19:10
lcukso I can task switch without alttab19:10
lcuklike ubuntu/windows even19:10
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Arkenoilcuk, libreoffice sucks big time on underpowered machines, even on my netbook it is hell. If Dataviz makes DtG for Meego i will surely buy it.19:13
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Arkenoii mean ARM version19:13
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Arkenoifor x86 it may be marginally acceptable19:13
Termanasiavoshkc, I suggest you read up on topics such as Trusted Platform Modules, digital signatures, chains of trust19:14
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Nils^great, I'm an idiot. 1 1/2 hour to transfer the meego image to my micro sd card and it does not boot because I had a typo and used bs=4069 instead 409619:17
Nils^and the transfer seems to be a lot faster with 4096, too19:18
gabor_Nils^: 4k is better :)19:22
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Nils^gabor_: I used what is written in the meego wiki. Finally.19:23
gabor_okay, only idea19:23
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QantouriscIs anyone here using meego for office/buisiness ?19:26
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QantouriscArkenoi: best wait till all the optimalizations have been completed ? they still have to drag along a lot of openoffice bloat :p19:28
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andre__Qantourisc, define office/business and a device format? :)19:30
Qantouriscandre__: getting imap/contacts/appointments to work together :p19:30
Qantouriscon desktop and handheld19:30
Qantouriscusing a FOSS stack19:30
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k4r1mhow hard would it be to get meego running on a device such lets say an htc phone thats built for android.. theoretically if I have the correct kernel sources should be that big an issue right?19:38
Stskeepsthe kicker will be gles support, always19:39
k4r1mhm interesting I see a lot of support for atom based devices but yeah forgot about intel19:40
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juliankk4r1m: If you have the graphic drivers19:44
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k4r1mshould yeah19:44
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tolleUsed n900 phones can be found "rather" cheap online.19:46
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k4r1mdon't like the n900's screen19:48
k4r1mplus it would be a fun project19:49
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talmageHi.  Can someone here help me with a QML module problem?19:50
Nils^so even if I have meego installed on an sd card I have to load the kernel each time before I boot? The normal guide does not mention the kernel at all http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/GettingStarted19:52
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StskeepsNils^: if you do emmc install  you can probably just flash the kernel19:52
Nils^Stskeeps: emmc did not work or was not verbose enough so I got impatient.19:53
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Nils^Stskeeps: I installed it on a micro sd card and have uboot installed19:53
Stskeepsah19:53
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Stskeepsuboot should not require you loading kernel19:53
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Nils^i abort the autoboot and tell uboot run mmc (or similar)19:53
Nils^it complains about not finding a kernel and thats it19:53
StskeepsNils^: don't abort autoboot19:54
Stskeepswhen sd card is written, it will boot from sd card19:54
Stskeepsautomatically19:54
Nils^ok, something is happening :)19:54
Nils^Meego 1.2 Community Edition splasscreen with a ripped Ubuntu logo19:55
Nils^:)19:55
lcukshhh wazd spent ages copying that19:55
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Nils^incredible. it finaly works. I have the desktop and a provider connection it seems19:57
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Nils^yeah, I called my gf with meego :)19:58
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SavagoGood morning.20:08
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SavagoNot sure if this is the correct channel, but has anyone played with the Meego SDK for Windows?20:09
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SavagoI just installed it and imported a Qt/QML project into it (which, by the way, runs perfectly well in both Ubuntu, meego 1.2 netbook and symbian).20:09
SavagoBut build fails with QSystemDeviceInfo no such file or directory.20:10
SavagoI wonder if Meego SDK has Mobility included?20:10
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SavagoWell, changing the target from Desktop to "Meego" seems to succeed the compilation.20:21
SavagoAt least I got a RPM file in the end.20:22
Savago:-P20:22
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kaari_jeps, i had those problems with class 10 mmc card with n900. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=100040520:27
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kaari_i promised to file bug report, which i didnt. but if theres some developer to look the thread over. it should be easy to fix.20:28
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javispedrolol, engadget now runs an article about the benefits of hardfloat ABI??20:34
javispedrohttp://www.engadget.com/2011/06/23/genesis-hard-float-arm-optimizations-can-hasten-linux-floating/20:34
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Stskeepsthat one was funny, yes20:34
destinaljavispedro: hardfloat = no preenv though?  :(20:36
javispedrooh hi destinal :)20:37
destinaljavispedro: heya :)20:37
javispedrodestinal: my plan is to chroot everything, then see if20:37
javispedroa) I can either get softfloat sgx libs that might work with the same kernel module20:37
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javispedrob) or create softfloat -> hardfloat wrappers20:38
Stskeepsjavispedro: i kind of wonder if a gles/egl wrapper that shares data over shm would be possible20:38
Stskeepslike, into a small chroot20:38
Stskeepswhere it's softfp20:39
destinaljavispedro: nice, I'd like to run a meego phone, but there are some binaries I'd like to take with me from webos :)20:39
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destinalcourse still need a device with a keyboard..  maybe port meego to pre3?  hmmm..20:40
javispedroStskeeps: as long as we have X11 or something else that does I prefer to just wrap the calls20:40
javispedros/that does/like that20:40
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Stskeepsmm20:40
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javispedroit needs a bit of design though )=)20:42
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Nils^help, I can't exit meego :(  Even through a terminal I can't because I don't know the root password for my own device20:46
Stskeeps'meego'20:46
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Nils^i tried that... maybe a typo20:46
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Nils^ah, yes. thanks.20:46
Nils^and is there a gui way?20:46
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javispedrotry hiting a hardware power button20:47
javispedroif your hardware has one20:47
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javispedroStskeeps: so by "wrapping" I mean that the real hardfp libs will also be inside the chroot, with some rpath or linker hackery to allow both my wrapper .so get to its symbols and the driver .sos to link with their own hardfp deps (x11, ...). when gl* calls are made, autogenerated asm stub does conversion and calls hardfp symbol.20:58
Stskeepsjavispedro: funny fact, it's possible to change call convention within .c files20:58
javispedrovery useful20:59
javispedrolast time I had to make an ABI wrapper it was from one platform that assumes 4-byte stack alignment to a platform that assumes 8-byte stack alignment20:59
javispedroit was not fun =)20:59
lcukthanks Stskeeps20:59
Stskeepsfor?20:59
Nils^javispedro: my power button just locks the key and screen black.20:59
javispedrobecause I had to end up limiting the number of arguments for variadic functions20:59
lcukfor: [MeeGo-dev] SF2011 BoF notes: Reinvigorating MeeGo Netbook21:00
Stskeepsah21:00
Stskeepsthank hilary, she took the notes21:00
Stskeepsi just followed up on not having seen them since21:00
Stskeeps:P21:00
javispedroNils^: that's weird, here on netbook power button turns off21:00
Nils^javispedro: its the n90021:00
javispedroah, ok =)21:00
Nils^which has an extra hardware switch for the lock keys function.21:00
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Nils^additionaly, I mean21:00
lcukStskeeps, ebb and flow21:00
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lcukalterego gave a great run down of your recent work to the devs at weekend by the way :) after a bit of prompting he was quite vocal about you21:01
Stskeepswhat'd i do now?21:02
Stskeeps:P21:02
lcukhe was talking about the wayland stuff :)21:02
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Stskeepsah, good21:02
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Venemohey guys21:04
Venemogood afternoon :)21:04
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javispedrohi there Venemo21:06
alteregolcuk: thanks :)21:07
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Venemohey javispedro21:09
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Venemoany new news about Harmattan today?21:18
Stskeepsno, but we have a shiny n900 community edition summer release out21:19
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Ulf_Stskeeps, u around?21:27
StskeepsUlf_: yes21:27
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Ulf_I just wanted to let you know that we'll have to publish another set of Trunk:Testing images without ARM today. I had to disable ARM because we need OBS resources and qemu died again on m4, gzip, etc21:28
StskeepsUlf_: that's fine - i have a glibc patch waiting, it's OK to wait for weekend to accept it21:29
Stskeepsi'm just glad i finally found the fix for the issue21:29
Ulf_Stskeeps, There's also a qemu 0.14? update pending that should make things better21:30
StskeepsUlf_: alright21:30
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aukeUlf_: btw, read my message to Anas - the links in the patch were all wrong...21:32
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Ulf_auke, It hasn't been accepted yet21:32
Ulf_auke, I guess, I didn't interpret your email right21:33
aukeall the post scriptlets need a sed s/applications/xsessions/21:33
Ulf_auke, OK21:34
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Stskeepsupside of armv8el being disabled: i can play with my qt5 stuff tomorrow \o/21:35
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alterego:)21:35
Ulf_Stskeeps, I heard you made good progress on that21:36
Stskeepsyeah, it works, but it was a battle beyond belief to find the correct branch for qtquick221:38
Stskeepsbut now packing time..21:38
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Ulf_Stskeeps, have a good night!21:42
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maligorarmv8?21:49
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Stskeepsmaligor: armv7, hardfp21:50
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Stskeeps(there's a fairly good reason)21:50
VenemoStskeeps, sounds nice! what's new in the summer release?21:51
maligorI guess one has to hope arm skips armv8 then? :P21:51
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maligorStskeeps, is there actually cores out there that are armv7 without neon and with vfp?21:53
Stskeepsmaligor: yes21:54
Stskeepsmaligor: tegra2 and marvell's21:54
maligorI guess the options is the curse of arm21:54
Stskeepsyeah21:54
Stskeepsit does seem like people are finally agreeing on a baseline21:54
Stskeepsfor LSB ARM21:54
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maligoryeah, vfp for baseline is certainly better than software fp21:56
VenemoStskeeps, does the summer release support PIN codes yet?21:56
StskeepsVenemo: sure21:56
Stskeepsmaligor: vfpv3-d16, armv7-a, mfloat-abi=hard, yeah21:57
VenemoI heard really great opionions (especially from MohammadAG) about your graphics performance21:57
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StskeepsVenemo: should try it21:58
maligorI didn't actually know marvell had armv7 cores tho21:58
Stskeepsmaligor: other annoying things is not everyone does thumb2 correctly, too21:58
Stskeeps:P21:58
VenemoStskeeps, I will try it as soon as I can21:58
maligorStskeeps, well, I had one device that really confused the heck out of me because it claimed to do thumb but got illegal instructions ;P21:59
Stskeepsmaligor: like the n900..21:59
Stskeeps:P21:59
maligorgot to love thumb tho, it's like using mips22:00
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maligorand a shame mips seems to have gone underground22:01
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maligorI'm sure anyone working on releases would've loved to have mips too, hehe ;P22:02
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maligorbut their newer cores are quite fancy except their dsp extension is severely lacking22:04
VenemoStskeeps, until then, can you tell me whether it supports the N900 hardware fully yet? I'm specifically insterested in whether the FMTX or the HSDPA modem works yet.22:05
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StskeepsVenemo: hsdpa works fine, fmtx no idea22:11
maligorFM Radio TX?22:12
maligor(I didn't even know the n900 had fm radio tx)22:12
maligorWhat abut hdspa working on N9/N950? ;P22:13
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Venemomaligor, N900 has an FM transmitter, yes. (disabled in some countries, but the hw is still there)22:14
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maligorI just hope the idiot nokia ceo gets evicted and they make a phone with actual meego ;P22:15
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maligorI imagine the N900 problem is that it was never a real target for any commercial support for meego22:17
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maligorjust a convenient test subject at times22:17
Venemomaligor, yeah, something like that I think22:17
Stskeepsdoesn't mean we don't have a kick-ass hardware adaptation still, considering our resources22:17
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maligorwell, there's always people willing to make their devices work properly22:18
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maligoralbeit sometimes the binary disassembly would simply take too long (years)22:19
VenemoStskeeps, yeah, you guys are making real progress :)22:19
satellit_I am interested in the sugar-desktop. How can I set the repositories on an install to Acer Aspire One N450 of meego-netbook-ia32-1.2.0.img for fedora 15?22:20
maligorsatellit_, err.. what?22:22
maligorsatellit_, you should install fedora 15 if you want fedora 1522:22
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maligormixing packages is a recipe for a huge mess22:22
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satellit_I just worked with a party on IRC who installed sugar on a Meego wetab. I would like to try it here22:24
maligorcan't say I know, afaik fedora uses yum and meego zypper22:25
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maligorI doubt their repositories are compatible22:25
satellit_http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Sugar_Creation_Kit#Meego%20+%20Sugar  are my notes22:25
Stskeepssatellit_: you could ask the sugar people to build it for meego :)22:27
satellit_ok  I thought if it could be done on wetab it could be done here both use same processor.....22:27
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Stskeepssure22:28
VenemoStskeeps, I think satellit_ is one of "the sugar people"22:28
satellit_I am a tester for them (volunteer)22:28
berndhsif it was me, I would get the F15 source-rpm, try to patch that to make a meego rpm and install that22:29
maligorit certainly looks like something that would work for the meego netbook and maybe tablet target22:30
satellit_ok (may be above my skill level ...)22:30
berndhsthere is a small chance that the f15 rpm will work, but if it doesn't, you really have no idea why22:31
berndhswhether its the packaging, or the sugar stuff, or the hardware, or something else22:31
satellit_my install is on an external usb HD so no loss if it does not work....22:32
satellit_thanks22:32
berndhsget the rpm file from f15 and try to install with zypper from that file, not from repo22:32
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berndhstaht will give you some indication22:33
satellit_meego works very nicely on ACER ASPIRE ONE N450 by the way : )22:33
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Venemosatellit_ :)22:37
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Venemosatellit_, if you have trouble with how to build the rpm, I can help22:48
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satellit_Venemo: thanks...I really am not able to do it....any help would be appreciated : )22:53
Venemosatellit_, do you have a working F15?22:53
satellit_yes Gnome3-shell updated22:54
Venemosatellit_, you can use 'yumdownloader --source packagename' to download the source rpm of the package you want to make work22:54
satellit_I have been using it as build system for Remixes22:54
satellit_ok22:55
Venemosatellit_, this will give you a .src.rpm file22:55
jedixugg, hardfp.. damn you ti. damn you22:55
Venemosatellit_, you will need the rpm dev tools and the build dependencies of this package on your MeeGo installation22:55
Venemosatellit_, copy the .src.rpm file to your MeeGo device and for the first try, use 'rpmbuild --rebuild yourpackage.src.rpm'22:56
Venemojedix, what's wrong?22:56
Venemosatellit_, it will complain if any build dependency is missing22:57
satellit_ok22:57
jedixVenemo: I need the armv7hl rpm for the opengl es blob22:57
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Venemojedix, if you use a hardfp build, then yes22:58
jedixVenemo: I thought 1.2 dropped softfp support?22:58
jedixso I need to get the hardfp..22:58
Stskeepsjedix: please send some kind of official request, it can't be that hard to build with a certain rootfs and a certain toolchain22:58
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Stskeepsjedix: hardfp's been my lesson in that occasionally, you can get things working too well, too fast23:00
TSCHAKeeedoes Qt use OpenGL ES with -graphicssystem opengl ?23:00
Venemoyes afaik23:01
TSCHAKeeehm23:01
Venemosatellit_, any luck? :)23:01
jedixStskeeps: I'm confused23:02
jedixwhat happens with it?23:02
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Stskeepsjedix: didn't understand your question, my statement was just that we were way faster than the distros that people would normally build binaries for, such as linaro baseline, in switching to hardfp float-abi23:04
Stskeepsjedix: and this hurts us now as noone has made hardfp builds :)23:04
satellit_Venemo: I cannot try it at this time.....have to go out for weekend. (Family) thanks for the guidance . : ) will checkin  monday  thanks again23:04
Stskeepsjedix: for closed bits23:04
Stskeepsthe only way this can be solved is by the vendors actually building the bit23:05
Stskeepss23:05
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jedixStskeeps: yeah.. unless you have access ot the vendor bits and have to build that bit23:05
Venemosatellit_, all right. if I'm here at the time, feel free to ping me and I'll try to help.23:05
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Stskeepsjedix: exactly.. i mean, if you had access to build that bit, it's bloody easy23:05
jedixStskeeps: if I knew how23:06
satellit_thanks....23:06
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Stskeepsjedix: if you have the SGX SDK/DDK sources, it should be fairly trivial if you've tried a softfp build23:07
alteregoThat's something I forgot to ask, do we have opencl support in N9(50) ;)23:08
Stskeepsno23:08
alteregooh well23:08
alteregoI wonder if I can write an app that uses the facial recognition to superimpose a meegon23:09
jedixStskeeps: I have never build the ddk.. switching from softfp to hardfp was easy but building isn't going so well :/23:09
w00tkaitlin_: ping23:10
w00tkaitlin_: contacts upgrades wrt locale seem to have broken things... it's putting all my contacts in "#" bucket :(23:11
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kaitlin_w00t: I saw that =( It was happening before the change to the locale API.23:20
w00tkaitlin_: getExemplarForString is returning #23:20
kaitlin_w00t: I wanted to fix it before I made the change, but someone was having trouble with the new locale APIs, so I figured I'd switch over to see if I could help them out.23:20
w00tthe loop is completing, without finding any matching character23:20
kaitlin_Ah, I kind of suspected that.  It only seems to happen with names that start with Z, right?23:21
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kaitlin_The odd thing is, when I switched to Japanese, I didn't see the issue.23:21
w00tnope, with my current manager it seems to be happening to all of them23:21
w00t(yeah, go figure)23:21
w00tI'm not sure how that is possible23:22
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lcukyo w00t23:22
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w00tlcuk: o/23:22
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* lcuk twiddles thumbs waiting23:23
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w00thmm?23:24
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berndhswhen I switch to Japanese, I won't see any spelling mistakes or grammatical errors23:26
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w00tbtw, kaitlin_, creating a meego::Locale each time exemplarcharacters is called for is not cheap23:27
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kaitlin_w00t: I should create it once and then refer to it to each instance afterward.  The localeutils code needs a fair bit of cleanup.23:28
w00t(creation and destruction of a lot of stuff, including a massive ICU instance each time)23:28
kaitlin_w00t: *nod* Agreed. I should have done that on the original check in =(23:28
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carterhi everyone -- anyone from washington DC or close in that area - would like to make a meeGo group and find people to develop with23:29
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Venemo~seen texrat23:32
kaitlin_w00t: There's a fair number of bugs related to sorting that I hope to work on in the next day or so.23:32
infobottexrat <41f494de@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.244.148.222> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 7d 3m 2s ago, saying: 'lcuk maybe you can scale the cells down?'.23:32
w00tkaitlin_: ok, sounds good23:32
w00tit's sort of killed my enthusiasm for working on things right now23:32
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kaitlin_w00t: What has killed your enthusiasm?  All the new bugs cropping up in contacts? ;)  I've seen a number of regressions lately due to EDS that I've been fighting.23:35
w00tI don't have to worry about those, since I'm working on my own manager :)23:36
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w00tbut the sorting bugs and stuff mean I can't easily get to work on that right now23:36
w00tI have a low tolerance for pain after a day's work ;)23:36
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kaitlin_Ah, I see.  That's completely fair.  My hope it to get a number of the bugs from bugs.meego.com knocked out the way today.  Then I can focus on fixing sorting. It's such a tiny portion of my attention right now, and I know that's going to be bite me very soon. =)23:39
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* lcuk slides over beers to w00t 23:41
lcuk:)23:41
wazdhttp://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/ <- this is absolutely fantastic23:42
phl0x81hm, there is now a tablet skin for the Qt Simulator...23:42
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wazdwho's responsible for that? I want to shake his hand personaly23:42
phl0x81MeeGo tablet skin.23:42
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wazdand I want to steal this font like... now23:44
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Jaffawazd: Isn't it Nokia Pure? There's a package in Extras for it for Maemo, and you can get a TTF23:44
wazdJaffa: I've tried that existing font and it looks different23:45
wazdmaybe I was trying some different iteration, can you send me a link please?23:45
Jaffawazd: http://maemo.org/packages/view/ttf-nokiapure/23:46
lcukJaffa, is that the one which was gpl'ed23:46
lcuk(early revision to the maemo repositories was under gpl)23:47
lcukthe license is still not pure ;)23:47
npmi made all my fonts prettier by installing msttcore-fonts-2.0-3.noarch.rpm23:47
Jaffalcuk: No idea23:48
andre__anybody having an idea who could be the default assignee for qt bugs in bugs.meego.com nowadays? or where to ask? release engineering?23:48
* andre__ wants to fix https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1769423:48
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MeeGoBotBug 17694 nor, Undecided, ---, eric.le-roux, NEW, Outdated default assignee for Qt23:48
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lcukandre__, thiago!23:48
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andre__lcuk: ay! now if thiago agrees... :)23:49
lcukJaffa, nokia pure license is "written request" for use23:49
lcukI keep intending to pen my own letter asking23:49
lcukbut it needs qt printing support on a device I use it on23:49
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* alterego sighs23:51
wazdRST38h: oh, hey there o/ :)23:51
wazdRST38h: wrong channel, but anyway :)23:51
lcukwhat is the right channel?23:51
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anidelthe one on your right, I guess23:52
alteregomine is #meego-handset23:52
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TheBootroohello23:57
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