| *** npm has quit IRC | 00:00 | |
| *** npm has joined #meego | 00:00 | |
| *** npm has quit IRC | 00:02 | |
| *** npm has joined #meego | 00:02 | |
| *** fiferboy has quit IRC | 00:02 | |
| *** baraujo has quit IRC | 00:05 | |
| *** lizardo has quit IRC | 00:06 | |
| *** javispedro has joined #meego | 00:08 | |
| *** astojilj has quit IRC | 00:12 | |
| *** anab1s has joined #meego | 00:15 | |
| *** dspeed has quit IRC | 00:17 | |
| *** lbt_hel has quit IRC | 00:18 | |
| *** eijk has quit IRC | 00:19 | |
| *** zenvoid has quit IRC | 00:25 | |
| *** b0unc3_ has joined #meego | 00:26 | |
| *** maour_ has joined #meego | 00:28 | |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 00:28 | |
| *** andyross has joined #meego | 00:28 | |
| *** maour has quit IRC | 00:29 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 00:34 | |
| *** anab1s has left #meego | 00:35 | |
| *** anab1s has joined #meego | 00:35 | |
| *** pmcgowan has quit IRC | 00:35 | |
| *** niku_ has joined #meego | 00:36 | |
| *** JJamz_ has quit IRC | 00:37 | |
| *** pixelgeek has quit IRC | 00:41 | |
| *** lamikr has joined #meego | 00:42 | |
| *** JJamz has joined #meego | 00:43 | |
| *** himamura has quit IRC | 00:47 | |
| anab1s | hello, has someone built a netbook ux image with emgd support? | 00:48 |
|---|---|---|
| *** puffin has quit IRC | 00:54 | |
| *** thiagoss has quit IRC | 00:55 | |
| *** thiago_home has quit IRC | 00:56 | |
| anab1s | vgrade: ping | 00:57 |
| *** alecjw has quit IRC | 00:58 | |
| *** mortenvp has quit IRC | 00:59 | |
| *** Stefan80_ has quit IRC | 01:01 | |
| *** timoph is now known as timoph|away | 01:01 | |
| *** Stefan80 has joined #meego | 01:02 | |
| lcuk | anab1s, there was a big discussion about variants and things earlier in #meego-arm but EMGD was not mentioned (focus was on ARM support), you have rightly pinged vgrade who should know but we would be even better to find real way and place to have these variation builds | 01:05 |
| anab1s | lcuk: thanks for the response | 01:05 |
| *** pespin_ has quit IRC | 01:07 | |
| *** notmart has quit IRC | 01:09 | |
| *** zgyarmati has quit IRC | 01:10 | |
| *** eti has quit IRC | 01:10 | |
| *** phdeswer has joined #meego | 01:12 | |
| *** Atarii has quit IRC | 01:13 | |
| *** sirdancealot has joined #meego | 01:18 | |
| *** b0unc3 has joined #meego | 01:19 | |
| *** piggz has quit IRC | 01:19 | |
| *** b0unc3_ has quit IRC | 01:19 | |
| *** wazd has quit IRC | 01:23 | |
| *** kW_ has quit IRC | 01:24 | |
| *** kW_ has joined #meego | 01:24 | |
| *** luck has quit IRC | 01:25 | |
| *** lardman has quit IRC | 01:26 | |
| *** isolor has quit IRC | 01:26 | |
| *** smoku has joined #meego | 01:27 | |
| *** isolor has joined #meego | 01:27 | |
| lcuk | heh @hpnews tweets: | 01:30 |
| lcuk | CEO Apotheker: "You’ll see a completely different HP emerging over the next 3-4 years" #hp [typo corrected from prev tweet] | 01:30 |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 01:30 | |
| lcuk | the correction was s/merging/emerging/ | 01:30 |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 01:30 | |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 01:31 | |
| *** briglia has quit IRC | 01:34 | |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 01:35 | |
| *** andyross has quit IRC | 01:38 | |
| *** javispedro has quit IRC | 01:39 | |
| *** blindfish has joined #meego | 01:40 | |
| vgrade | lcuk, i've hooked up with anab1s now, been missing him for a day or so now | 01:40 |
| lcuk | :D | 01:41 |
| vgrade | pointed him at the ivi builds to start with which have EMGD in | 01:41 |
| lcuk | ooh neato | 01:41 |
| lcuk | where are those builds? | 01:41 |
| * lcuk finally sussed out how to actually sort out ideapad powersave/suspend thing | 01:42 | |
| lcuk | now I can close the lid, walk to new sitting place, reopen lid and carry on where I was | 01:42 |
| lcuk | (become more required because I now smoke outside!) | 01:42 |
| vgrade | i pointed him to http://download.meego.com/MeeGo/snapshots/stable/1.2.0/latest/images/ | 01:43 |
| lcuk | i haven't got a usb slot in my car though | 01:43 |
| lcuk | is it compatible with citroen c3? :P | 01:43 |
| *** wazd has joined #meego | 01:44 | |
| *** TheXception|off is now known as TheXception | 01:52 | |
| *** mmc has quit IRC | 01:54 | |
| *** tchan1 has joined #meego | 01:58 | |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Does it suspend to ram? | 01:58 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, no | 01:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - right. | 01:58 |
| * SpeedEvil wishes that there were some way to do router powersave 'properly'. | 01:59 | |
| SpeedEvil | I.E. go to sleep - tell router 'queue all packets for me' - wake up 30s - process packets for 1s - go to sleep. Repeat until something interesting happens. | 01:59 |
| *** tchan has quit IRC | 01:59 | |
| SpeedEvil | TCP/IP and everything backs off so you have a link with a RTT of 30s - and most things - 'just work' | 01:59 |
| *** Saviq has joined #meego | 02:00 | |
| Saviq | to anyone interested, the SF videos started showing up, kinda hidden atm, but hey ;-) check out http://videos.meego.com/ | 02:01 |
| berndhs | we'll keep it quiet :) | 02:01 |
| *** pixelgeek has joined #meego | 02:01 | |
| SpeedEvil | Woo! | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I can see the origins of PNG man. | 02:02 |
| *** foolano has quit IRC | 02:02 | |
| berndhs | i see a bunch of XML | 02:02 |
| alterego | Saviq: link doesn't work | 02:03 |
| Saviq | alterego: yeah it does | 02:03 |
| Saviq | you just need to look for .flv | 02:03 |
| alterego | I'm getting server not found, new dns entry? | 02:03 |
| Saviq | ah no, it's there for a long time now AFAIK | 02:03 |
| *** kW_ has quit IRC | 02:03 | |
| alterego | Oh waitp worked this time | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I still just get lots of XML | 02:04 |
| Saviq | just get the /sf2011... <Key> and append that to http://videos.meego.com/ for download | 02:04 |
| Saviq | SpeedEvil: that's what I meant 'hidden' ;) | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | I tried that | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - $foo$ is literal | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I assumed... | 02:05 |
| Saviq | here's an example url "http://videos.meego.com/sf2011/Monday/Grand A/MeeGo BO Grand A 323.flv" | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I see. It's obvious now. | 02:05 |
| Saviq | $folder$ seems to be a way to indicate folders | 02:06 |
| *** hugopl has quit IRC | 02:06 | |
| *** t][s][o has joined #meego | 02:07 | |
| Saviq | sadly the operators didn't grasp the idea that we actually want to look at the screen and not the presenters' faces for the most time | 02:07 |
| Saviq | and slides are not available on some sessions | 02:07 |
| *** pixelgeek_ has joined #meego | 02:07 | |
| alterego | Crap, 1.5G ?v | 02:07 |
| *** wazd has quit IRC | 02:07 | |
| Saviq | not to mention demos | 02:07 |
| alterego | I aint downloading that over 3G :P | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Note to self. | 02:08 |
| Saviq | not sure it's gonna change later | 02:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Don't open videos with mplayer as root | 02:08 |
| alterego | Hahah | 02:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Gets _really_ confused when it can't talk to x. | 02:08 |
| Saviq | note to SpeedEvil don't open videos with mplayer. ;P | 02:08 |
| * SpeedEvil hugs being able to ssh in from phone and chvt | 02:08 | |
| Saviq | +1 | 02:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Why not? | 02:08 |
| *** t_s_o has quit IRC | 02:09 | |
| Saviq | SpeedEvil: just a personal hate | 02:09 |
| Saviq | brb | 02:09 |
| *** tso has joined #meego | 02:09 | |
| *** smoku has left #meego | 02:09 | |
| SpeedEvil | Ah - too much bitrate. | 02:09 |
| *** smoku has joined #meego | 02:09 | |
| *** Saviq is now known as Saviq_afk | 02:09 | |
| SpeedEvil | I shall wait until they are properly linked up. They do look nice though! | 02:10 |
| alterego | I might download them tomorrow | 02:10 |
| *** Saviq_afk is now known as Saviq | 02:11 | |
| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: did you see the link I pasted yesterday? | 02:11 |
| *** situ has quit IRC | 02:11 | |
| Saviq | yeah they overdid with the size a bit | 02:11 |
| *** t][s][o has quit IRC | 02:12 | |
| *** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle | 02:12 | |
| Saviq | that's mostly true for 4:3 videos, panoramic ones seem to be more reasonably sized | 02:12 |
| *** delac has quit IRC | 02:12 | |
| *** Saviq is now known as Saviq_afk | 02:17 | |
| alterego | I'm really looking forwar to scene graph and wayland .. | 02:19 |
| alterego | forward .. | 02:19 |
| alterego | I should probably stop dreaming about the future and continue working on what I have now though ;) | 02:19 |
| TSCHAKeee | alterego: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KefqZgDFIRU | 02:24 |
| alterego | Making progress then :) | 02:26 |
| vldcnst | TSCHAKeee: 'okley dokley'? | 02:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | vldcnst: that's Langston for ya | 02:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | that's not me, one of our other programmers. | 02:27 |
| *** Saviq_afk is now known as Saviq | 02:30 | |
| *** DawnFoster has quit IRC | 02:32 | |
| *** Dr_Who has quit IRC | 02:35 | |
| lcuk | TSCHAKeee, ? | 02:38 |
| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: i repasted it above | 02:38 |
| *** willer_ has quit IRC | 02:38 | |
| *** Ans5i has quit IRC | 02:39 | |
| TSCHAKeee | alterego & lcuk: also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XMjWrJpEEw (Bookmarks part 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHbJ40TrO2A (bookmarks part 2) and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDQ92d9nktQ (Famicom Disk System Support) ;) | 02:40 |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 02:41 | |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 02:41 | |
| alterego | I really hate being busy, there's so many things I'd like to do right now :( | 02:41 |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 02:42 | |
| *** puffin has joined #meego | 02:42 | |
| w00t | hmm | 02:43 |
| w00t | am I missing something stupid with the exopc? I added xopts=-nocursor to my uxlaunch in /etc/sysconfig, killed uxlaunch, yet I still have a cursor | 02:43 |
| *** goutam has joined #meego | 02:44 | |
| *** akk has quit IRC | 02:45 | |
| *** mitsutaka has quit IRC | 02:46 | |
| *** cyborg-one has quit IRC | 02:46 | |
| *** Evanescence has joined #meego | 02:46 | |
| *** cyborg-one has joined #meego | 02:47 | |
| *** fredy has quit IRC | 02:47 | |
| *** lamikr has quit IRC | 02:48 | |
| lcuk | TSCHAKeee, so that portion of the system shows that your flavour of DBUS signaling works. the bus is entire network though | 02:49 |
| TSCHAKeee | it's not using dbus at all, but it is a messaging system | 02:49 |
| lcuk | so in effect more like OSC (Open Sound Control) | 02:49 |
| lcuk | I know it is not DBUS - your flavour of it | 02:49 |
| auke | w00t: hmm, restart system? | 02:49 |
| lcuk | same idea | 02:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: yeah, in a way :) | 02:50 |
| w00t | auke: let me try | 02:50 |
| lcuk | effect etc | 02:50 |
| auke | w00t: read /var/log/uxlaunch.log to confirm the option was passed to Xorg | 02:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: our bus is the entire home | 02:50 |
| lcuk | TSCHAKeee, how much binding does it work and how generic is it on the network? | 02:50 |
| w00t | okay, will do when it comes back alive :) | 02:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: and unifies ALL messaging busses actually. | 02:50 |
| lcuk | does it need* | 02:50 |
| w00t | I'm sort of surprised that option isn't there by default | 02:50 |
| w00t | I can't really imagine why you'd ever want mouse on a tablet :P | 02:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | and it contains a lot of code to traverse and find devices of different types/categories/etc | 02:51 |
| w00t | visible, that is | 02:51 |
| w00t | (unless you have one plugged in) | 02:51 |
| alterego | I'm running ubuntu on my exo | 02:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: as far as the network is concerned, DCE devices make TCP connections back to the DCE router on a star topology. | 02:51 |
| alterego | Need something I can properly hack on | 02:51 |
| w00t | alterego: what's wrong with meego? :-) | 02:51 |
| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: currently our main binding is in C++, but we have a ruby interpreter and a bash interpreter engine as wel. | 02:52 |
| alterego | I need something I can properly hack on ... | 02:52 |
| *** Umeaboy has quit IRC | 02:52 | |
| w00t | alterego: right, I'm asking why you can't use it :) | 02:52 |
| alterego | It's not as comfortable, ubuntu everything I need just works, no hacking required. | 02:52 |
| lcuk | TSCHAKeee, what protocol is it running, and is that documented outside (datatypes, scalability etc?) | 02:52 |
| w00t | auke: no mention of nocursor in uxlaunch.log | 02:53 |
| alterego | I just need the libs I use in MeeGo (Qt etc) and I'm sorted :P | 02:53 |
| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: it is our own protocol, and yes it is documented. | 02:53 |
| lcuk | infact, nm for tonight - I will ask again tomorrow I need to sleep \p | 02:53 |
| lcuk | \o | 02:53 |
| lcuk | gnite guys | 02:53 |
| TSCHAKeee | our system is currently very vertical | 02:53 |
| *** mpoirier has quit IRC | 02:53 | |
| TSCHAKeee | but then again it had to be | 02:53 |
| TSCHAKeee | when we started | 02:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | nothing existed. | 02:54 |
| w00t | auke: does the ordering of stuff in uxlaunch config matter? | 02:55 |
| lcuk | and then TSCHAKeee said, let there be light, and lo a WML light bulb button was pushed which raised a signal into a slot which triggered a message over the custom message bus which entered the hub and sent a control power switch to the light and TSCHAKeee did bask upon the 60watt glow of his bulb. | 02:55 |
| w00t | xopts is the last line at present | 02:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: hehehe | 02:55 |
| lcuk | nn | 02:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: we actually did this as a test conept | 02:56 |
| *** acydlord has joined #meego | 02:56 | |
| alterego | Heh | 02:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: towards a new Orbiter | 02:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | we want to design a new orbiter entirely done in QML | 02:56 |
| auke | w00t: no, I'm thinking your version is too old to support xopts= | 02:57 |
| alterego | QML exported via http and backed by RoR! :) | 02:58 |
| w00t | auke: v0.58 | 02:58 |
| auke | sounds too old | 02:58 |
| *** jophish_ has joined #meego | 02:58 | |
| w00t | arh | 02:58 |
| auke | not sure | 02:58 |
| auke | where did you get it? | 02:58 |
| w00t | as-installed when I got it from the appup guys | 02:58 |
| w00t | (in sf) | 02:58 |
| auke | yup, too old | 02:58 |
| w00t | I need to figure out how to point my repos at trunk, I guess :) | 02:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | backed by RoR, hells no | 02:59 |
| auke | 0.59+ | 02:59 |
| alterego | Yeah, you don't even have multitouch on that :P | 02:59 |
| w00t | alterego: nope | 02:59 |
| w00t | upgrading was next on my todo list anyway | 02:59 |
| w00t | so it's no big deal | 02:59 |
| *** newbie007 has quit IRC | 02:59 | |
| alterego | TSCHAKeee: I was joking, though I've been experimenting with transferable images | 02:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 02:59 |
| alterego | Exposed via http and RoR | 02:59 |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 02:59 | |
| TSCHAKeee | cool | 03:00 |
| alterego | s/images/interfaces :P | 03:00 |
| *** dgc03052 has quit IRC | 03:00 | |
| *** jophish has quit IRC | 03:01 | |
| *** Ans5i has joined #meego | 03:01 | |
| w00t | oh, hell, this is quite an old image | 03:01 |
| *** dchaverri26 has quit IRC | 03:03 | |
| *** qgil has quit IRC | 03:05 | |
| *** Saviq is now known as Saviq_afk | 03:10 | |
| w00t | auke: indeed, upgrading uxlaunch made things work | 03:11 |
| w00t | :) | 03:11 |
| *** andyross has joined #meego | 03:11 | |
| *** MoRpHeUz has quit IRC | 03:11 | |
| alterego | w00t: so what are you doing with your exo? | 03:12 |
| w00t | alterego: setting up a development environment at the moment | 03:12 |
| alterego | qml? | 03:13 |
| w00t | and making it a bit more friendly to use | 03:13 |
| w00t | well, qml is already there, vim, gcc, qt-devel, etc | 03:13 |
| tripzero | rewriting all my apps so they are actually good? | 03:13 |
| alterego | I'm planning on getting scene graph running under de | 03:13 |
| w00t | tripzero: haha, awww | 03:13 |
| w00t | i <3 settings! | 03:13 |
| alterego | See how much it improves qml performance | 03:14 |
| tripzero | lol | 03:14 |
| w00t | alterego: did you see the recent figures on labs? | 03:14 |
| w00t | summary: a lot | 03:14 |
| tripzero | i was able to improve the startup time in settings today | 03:14 |
| alterego | Indeed | 03:14 |
| w00t | tripzero: nice! what'd you do? | 03:14 |
| w00t | (and what improvements :)) | 03:14 |
| tripzero | it was a "oops" moment | 03:14 |
| alterego | I think 1.3 will be the serious MeeGo release | 03:15 |
| alterego | systemd, wayland, scene graph :) | 03:15 |
| alterego | qml 2 maybe .. | 03:15 |
| tripzero | during the transition to meego-ux-components, I thought i had to create components of all the applets at load time | 03:15 |
| tripzero | then i figured out that i didn't but never removed the code | 03:15 |
| w00t | tripzero: hahaha, oops | 03:15 |
| w00t | I wonder how much of meego-ux is similar to that, might help to drop a mail to meego-dev :P | 03:16 |
| tripzero | so a one line fix and 100% improvement | 03:16 |
| w00t | alterego: qml2/scenegraph probably won't hit 1.3 | 03:16 |
| *** thiagoss has joined #meego | 03:16 | |
| gabrbedd | alterego: stop it! Nobody's promising a production/stable wayland for 1.3. | 03:16 |
| gabrbedd | alterego: :-p | 03:16 |
| w00t | wayland... | 03:16 |
| *** niala has quit IRC | 03:16 | |
| w00t | maybe... | 03:16 |
| w00t | I don't know what the problems are there | 03:17 |
| tripzero | stable != serious | 03:17 |
| gabrbedd | sure... it *could* happen... but nobody is committing to it. | 03:17 |
| gabrbedd | tripzero: hahaha :-) | 03:17 |
| tripzero | seriously awesome, yes. stable... maybe? | 03:17 |
| tripzero | i think 1.2 shipped with qtmobility beta didn't it? | 03:18 |
| alterego | Yes | 03:18 |
| tripzero | but... qt5 is going to be beta in dec? | 03:19 |
| *** tgall_foo has joined #meego | 03:19 | |
| tripzero | so the best 1.3 will get is a tech preview | 03:19 |
| tripzero | maybe | 03:19 |
| w00t | beta might be pushing it | 03:19 |
| w00t | i'd estimate invasive changes to be done by the end of the year | 03:19 |
| alterego | There was talk of aligning but I guess we wont know for a while | 03:19 |
| w00t | assuming the current timescales and featuresets are kept | 03:19 |
| w00t | that'll be more accurate once berlin is over :) | 03:20 |
| w00t | which isn't far away | 03:20 |
| *** jkukunas has quit IRC | 03:20 | |
| *** tgall_foo has quit IRC | 03:20 | |
| *** tgall_foo has joined #meego | 03:20 | |
| *** tgall_foo is now known as Dr_Who | 03:20 | |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 03:20 | |
| tripzero | maybe qt5 will drop features to meet the 1.3 window? | 03:20 |
| *** goutam has quit IRC | 03:20 | |
| tripzero | that's an idea | 03:21 |
| gabrbedd | when I last talked to thiago (here)... he was trying to figure out how to get scenegraph for 1.3. | 03:21 |
| gabrbedd | idea: add feature to 4.9 (or something)... clean them up for 5.0. | 03:21 |
| alterego | Anyway, bedtime for me | 03:21 |
| alterego | g'night | 03:21 |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 03:21 | |
| tripzero | night | 03:21 |
| w00t | gabrbedd: there was going to be a 4.9 originally before dropping that for 5.0 | 03:21 |
| w00t | tripzero: qt5 doesn't actually have many features | 03:22 |
| tripzero | just big changes :( | 03:22 |
| w00t | but rewriting the entire graphics stack for all platforms and expecting to release it within 6 months is a bit.. optimistic, I think | 03:22 |
| gabrbedd | w00t: That was the part he seemed to be struggling with... | 03:22 |
| gabrbedd | 4.8 is scheduled next, and scenegraph won't make it. | 03:23 |
| gabrbedd | 5.0 is scheduled after. | 03:23 |
| gabrbedd | 4.9 isn't on the schedule. | 03:23 |
| *** Kaz has quit IRC | 03:23 | |
| w00t | honestly, i don't see how changing numbers is going to make it any faster | 03:24 |
| w00t | this is a big, scary, invasive change, it's natural to not rush it too heavily | 03:25 |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 03:25 | |
| gabrbedd | well, they'd like to have it in october, but it goes against their release schedule. | 03:25 |
| w00t | I imagine they'd _like_ to have had it 3-4 years ago :-p | 03:25 |
| tripzero | at meego conf they said they would target meego 1.4 | 03:26 |
| tripzero | in april 2012 | 03:26 |
| w00t | that's more within realms of possibility | 03:27 |
| tripzero | and we can't really do wayland without qt5 can we? | 03:27 |
| w00t | tripzero: yes, you can | 03:27 |
| tripzero | well, i suppose we could run X inside wayland | 03:27 |
| w00t | no | 03:27 |
| tripzero | but... meh | 03:27 |
| tripzero | wayland works with qt4? | 03:27 |
| w00t | Qt 4.8 includes Lighthouse, the platform abstraction refactoring | 03:27 |
| w00t | it has a wayland backend | 03:27 |
| *** jophish_ has quit IRC | 03:27 | |
| tripzero | ahh | 03:27 |
| gabrbedd | Right. But I keep hearing people say "they'll have wayland in 1.3" -- and I think it gives people the impression that they've committed to shipping wayland production/stable in 1.3 (which isn't true) | 03:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | most people do not understand that Wayland isn't a drop in replacement for X.... | 03:28 |
| tripzero | if 1.3 is just a more refined version of 1.2, i'm happy | 03:28 |
| TSCHAKeee | we're gonna see lots of confused people. | 03:28 |
| tripzero | 1.4 can have all the big changes | 03:28 |
| gabrbedd | tripzero: +1 | 03:29 |
| *** jophish has joined #meego | 03:29 | |
| *** thuttu77 has quit IRC | 03:29 | |
| *** I-C-Wiener has quit IRC | 03:29 | |
| tripzero | 1.3 could include a fairly polished meego-ux at this rate | 03:30 |
| *** andredieb has quit IRC | 03:30 | |
| *** juvuolle-l has quit IRC | 03:30 | |
| *** thuttu77 has joined #meego | 03:30 | |
| *** juvuolle-l has joined #meego | 03:30 | |
| *** pmccarty has quit IRC | 03:30 | |
| *** juvuolle-l has quit IRC | 03:30 | |
| *** tuununiis has quit IRC | 03:30 | |
| *** jkyro has quit IRC | 03:30 | |
| *** rohanpm has quit IRC | 03:30 | |
| *** rohanpm has joined #meego | 03:30 | |
| w00t | tripzero: the rate of progress is amazing | 03:30 |
| *** juvuolle-l has joined #meego | 03:30 | |
| *** hhurtta has quit IRC | 03:31 | |
| *** gbraad has quit IRC | 03:31 | |
| *** lopotter has quit IRC | 03:31 | |
| *** jjo has quit IRC | 03:31 | |
| *** jjo has joined #meego | 03:31 | |
| *** jkyro has joined #meego | 03:31 | |
| *** tuununiis has joined #meego | 03:31 | |
| *** lopotter has joined #meego | 03:32 | |
| *** hhurtta has joined #meego | 03:32 | |
| *** gbraad has joined #meego | 03:32 | |
| *** gbraad has joined #meego | 03:32 | |
| gabrbedd | tripzero: BTW, which part do you work on? | 03:33 |
| *** yanshuang has joined #meego | 03:34 | |
| tripzero | gabrbedd, various settings and settings infrastructure primarily | 03:35 |
| tripzero | but i have my grubby hands in various other things as well | 03:35 |
| *** Kaz has joined #meego | 03:37 | |
| *** boiko has quit IRC | 03:37 | |
| * w00t shoots sample-media | 03:38 | |
| gabrbedd | tripzero: cool :-) | 03:43 |
| gabrbedd | Is it just me... or does the layout look strange on a 1024x600 screen? | 03:43 |
| *** himamura has joined #meego | 03:44 | |
| * gabrbedd is taking a screen shot... | 03:45 | |
| gabrbedd | http://gabe.is-a-geek.org/tmp/20110601-m-ux-d-appgrd-001.jpg | 03:48 |
| w00t | it's not properly designed to run in that sort of a resolution, portrait-only afaik | 03:49 |
| *** mitsutaka has joined #meego | 03:50 | |
| gabrbedd | w00t: ok. just checking that I didn't b0rk something. | 03:50 |
| *** NIN101 has quit IRC | 03:54 | |
| *** tso has quit IRC | 03:55 | |
| *** ahiemstra has joined #meego | 03:55 | |
| *** andredieb has joined #meego | 03:56 | |
| *** andredieb has joined #meego | 03:56 | |
| *** erstazi has quit IRC | 03:58 | |
| *** erstazi has joined #meego | 03:58 | |
| *** isolor has quit IRC | 04:08 | |
| *** andredieb has quit IRC | 04:10 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 04:11 | |
| *** Kaz has quit IRC | 04:13 | |
| *** Kaz has joined #meego | 04:14 | |
| npm | gabrbedd: how do you get it to recognize standard desktop icons w/o putting copies/symlinks in /usr/share/pixmaps/ | 04:16 |
| *** andyross has quit IRC | 04:18 | |
| *** maour_ has quit IRC | 04:18 | |
| *** akk has joined #meego | 04:25 | |
| *** smoku has left #meego | 04:27 | |
| *** himamura_ has joined #meego | 04:29 | |
| *** himamura has quit IRC | 04:30 | |
| *** himamura_ has quit IRC | 04:31 | |
| *** andredieb has joined #meego | 04:33 | |
| *** situ has joined #meego | 04:33 | |
| *** hhartz has joined #meego | 04:35 | |
| *** tonberry_ has joined #meego | 04:36 | |
| *** hhartz has quit IRC | 04:37 | |
| *** wazd has joined #meego | 04:39 | |
| *** till- has quit IRC | 04:40 | |
| *** till- has joined #meego | 04:48 | |
| *** situ has quit IRC | 04:48 | |
| gabrbedd | npm: full path to icon. | 04:49 |
| *** phl0x81 has joined #meego | 04:54 | |
| *** gimzo has joined #meego | 04:55 | |
| *** gimzo_ has quit IRC | 04:56 | |
| *** dwmw2 has quit IRC | 04:58 | |
| *** mwichmann has quit IRC | 05:00 | |
| *** krau has quit IRC | 05:01 | |
| *** berndhs has left #meego | 05:02 | |
| *** dwmw2 has joined #meego | 05:03 | |
| *** krau has joined #meego | 05:06 | |
| *** himamura has joined #meego | 05:07 | |
| *** wazd has quit IRC | 05:08 | |
| pixelgeek_ | MeeGo tablet likes 110x100 pixels w/ 20px transparent border. | 05:10 |
| pixelgeek_ | MeeGo tablet likes 100x100 pixels w/ 20px transparent border. | 05:10 |
| *** raster has joined #meego | 05:12 | |
| *** raster has joined #meego | 05:12 | |
| *** swc|666 has joined #meego | 05:13 | |
| *** tdb30_ has joined #meego | 05:13 | |
| *** Ans5i has quit IRC | 05:14 | |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 05:16 | |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 05:16 | |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 05:16 | |
| gabrbedd | pixelgeek_: Thanks. What about SVG's? | 05:19 |
| pixelgeek_ | Not yet... | 05:19 |
| pixelgeek_ | It was discussed at MeeGo conference, but no timeline announced. | 05:20 |
| pixelgeek_ | James Ketrenos and Cyrene Domogolla did a presentation on resolution independent interfaces. | 05:20 |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 05:20 | |
| *** berndhs has joined #meego | 05:21 | |
| pixelgeek_ | s/Domogolla/Domogalla | 05:21 |
| phl0x81 | been sofar great news for MeeGo from the computex. :) | 05:22 |
| gabrbedd | pixelgeek_: OK. FWIW, the Compliance spec says "SVG or PNG", and no mention of the path. | 05:23 |
| gabrbedd | pixelgeek_: also 100x100 isn't in the list. :-) | 05:23 |
| pixelgeek_ | Just telling ya what works ;) | 05:24 |
| w00t | SVG is orders of magnitude slower to render, which is something to keep in mind, too | 05:25 |
| pixelgeek_ | phl0x81: What caught your eye? | 05:25 |
| phl0x81 | tablet news is great, also the netbook is nice. | 05:25 |
| *** loft306 has quit IRC | 05:25 | |
| phl0x81 | wonder if there is more, as computex isn't over yet. | 05:25 |
| pixelgeek_ | Acer tablet? | 05:25 |
| phl0x81 | yeah | 05:25 |
| pixelgeek_ | I think Computex is pretty much winding down today. | 05:26 |
| *** loft306 has joined #meego | 05:26 | |
| pixelgeek_ | (Thursday in Taiwan already) | 05:26 |
| phl0x81 | we'll see. | 05:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Damn. | 05:30 |
| * SpeedEvil wants announcement of meego nokia phone. | 05:30 | |
| SpeedEvil | Who knows. | 05:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Maybe they don't want to announce it on the back of the profits warning. | 05:31 |
| *** boiko has joined #meego | 05:32 | |
| *** Andy80 has quit IRC | 05:32 | |
| phl0x81 | yeah. the nokias. waiting for that too. | 05:33 |
| berndhs | waiting for the gold plated thingy for your collection ? | 05:34 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't want a gold plated thingy. | 05:34 |
| berndhs | im sure its extra shiny :) | 05:34 |
| gabrbedd | pixelgeek_: I know, thanks. | 05:36 |
| pixelgeek_ | I'm waiting for the Nokia announcement too. My Nokia 6102 is long overdue a replacement... | 05:36 |
| phl0x81 | actually, I'm waiting for those LG Phones ;) | 05:37 |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 05:38 | |
| gabrbedd | w00t: Yeah, sure... but we're talking about icons. And that the MeeGo UX isn't following the complaince spec. :-p | 05:38 |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 05:38 | |
| *** tgall_foo has joined #meego | 05:39 | |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 05:39 | |
| berndhs | complianced is for the little people :) | 05:39 |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 05:39 | |
| w00t | I'm not sure why svg wouldn't work, I've never seen anything restricting image types | 05:40 |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 05:40 | |
| gabrbedd | It's been a while since I tried it on the MeeGo UX... | 05:40 |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 05:40 | |
| * gabrbedd tries again... | 05:40 | |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 05:40 | |
| *** pcfe has quit IRC | 05:41 | |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 05:41 | |
| *** pcfe has joined #meego | 05:41 | |
| *** pcfe has joined #meego | 05:41 | |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 05:41 | |
| w00t | according to http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ux/meego-ux-appgrid/blobs/master/AppIcon.qml it's just an Image, so I don't see why it wouldn't work | 05:41 |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 05:41 | |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 05:42 | |
| gabrbedd | nohup pkill uxlaunch | 05:42 |
| pixelgeek_ | Maybe SVG is supported already - https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7694 | 05:42 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 7694 nor, Medium, ---, armin.berres, CLOS FIXED, Icons in PNG format are ignored by theme daemon | 05:42 |
| gabrbedd | Ah, I remember now... | 05:42 |
| pixelgeek_ | ugh - that's MTF | 05:42 |
| w00t | mthemedaemon is part of handset | 05:42 |
| w00t | right :) | 05:43 |
| gabrbedd | It works... but I had a font issue. | 05:43 |
| * gabrbedd gets to fixing his font issue... | 05:43 | |
| phl0x81 | hm, there is svg support in Qt, so it shouldn't be too hard. | 05:43 |
| *** Diod has quit IRC | 05:43 | |
| gabrbedd | anybody know how to explode text to shapes in inkscape? | 05:46 |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 05:46 | |
| pixelgeek_ | convert to path? | 05:47 |
| *** marxistvegan has joined #meego | 05:47 | |
| *** marxistvegan has left #meego | 05:47 | |
| gabrbedd | pixelgeek_: yep, that's it. | 05:48 |
| *** b0unc3_ has joined #meego | 05:48 | |
| gabrbedd | pretty! | 05:51 |
| *** tdb30_ has quit IRC | 05:51 | |
| gabrbedd | pixelgeek_: sorry for giving you crap about SVG. | 05:51 |
| pixelgeek_ | You were? | 05:51 |
| gabrbedd | who? me? | 05:52 |
| * gabrbedd looks around | 05:52 | |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 05:52 | |
| pixelgeek_ | ;) | 05:52 |
| *** boiko has quit IRC | 05:52 | |
| pixelgeek_ | There's so many things in motion with the tablet UX... | 05:52 |
| pixelgeek_ | But I look back at what it was like at the beginning of the year, and how far it's come... | 05:53 |
| *** mike_m has left #meego | 05:54 | |
| pixelgeek_ | By the way, I wanted to thank you an Tony for showing off the Indamixx products at the Intel Booth at tMeeGo Conference SF 2011. | 05:55 |
| gabrbedd | pixelgeek_: it was our pleasure, really. :-) | 05:55 |
| gabrbedd | could not have done it without Tony, either. | 05:56 |
| pixelgeek_ | I think you were spot on in your blog - it was a key attraction at the booth. | 05:56 |
| pixelgeek_ | Yes, he was a trooper! | 05:56 |
| tonberry_ | never had chances to go Meego Conference, its too far for me :( | 05:57 |
| *** Kaz has quit IRC | 05:58 | |
| npm | the tablet ux kinda pisses me off actually... try installing some standard programs on your tablet, like skype | 05:58 |
| gabrbedd | npm: that's why it's still called "pre-alpha" :-p | 05:59 |
| npm | and the idea of putting window manager stuff back in the application is lie going back to X10 | 05:59 |
| gabrbedd | npm: huh? | 05:59 |
| npm | so every app sits there having to take up precious cycles burbling about the wireless or the battery charge or the orientation | 06:00 |
| npm | X10 apps were just like tablet-UX apps. if you wanted window manager decorations, you built it into the app | 06:00 |
| gabrbedd | npm: I still don't follow you. apps are all full screen in meego ux. | 06:00 |
| npm | so it's like going back to the 80's for me... | 06:00 |
| gabrbedd | npm: ah, I see. | 06:01 |
| npm | apps aren't full screen, is the problem | 06:01 |
| gabrbedd | npm: Actually, I had this conversation with Rusty Lynch on the ML... and he convinced me of The Way. | 06:01 |
| gabrbedd | npm: which apps are not full screen? | 06:01 |
| npm | some apps have dialogs, and there's a variety of diaglog types that have been standardized | 06:01 |
| npm | but tablet UX ignores it all | 06:01 |
| akk | tablet ux can show non-fullscreen dialogs | 06:02 |
| npm | well try taking a call in skype and you'll see | 06:02 |
| gabrbedd | akk: actually, that *is* a problem with the tablet ux. | 06:02 |
| akk | Oh, they're going to make it so that dialogs are fullscreened too? | 06:03 |
| akk | That's a bummer for some apps, since you might need to see the main window while working with a dialog. | 06:03 |
| npm | not only fullscreened (so the look like crap) but also no way of finding other popups/dialogs from an app | 06:03 |
| akk | Why this passion for fullscreen everything? | 06:03 |
| npm | it basically only works well for apps built w/ meego components. | 06:03 |
| akk | It makes sense on a phone, not so much on an 11" display. | 06:03 |
| gabrbedd | akk: well, there's a few problems, actually. One of the biggest is that the meego ux makes the assumption that desktop files to windows is a 1:1 relationship. | 06:04 |
| npm | but any standard X app (the whole point of me doing meego) is SOL | 06:04 |
| SpeedEvil | X is coming up for deprecation. | 06:04 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand it. | 06:04 |
| gabrbedd | akk: and npm is right, standard Xlib apps don't work right in mcompositor. | 06:04 |
| akk | gabrbedd: So running an app that doesn't have a desktop file also confuses it somehow? | 06:04 |
| akk | (I've done that and not noticed obvious problems) | 06:04 |
| npm | X coming up for deprecation... let me laugh for a while | 06:05 |
| SpeedEvil | wayland. | 06:05 |
| akk | Even wayland will supposedly support xlib. | 06:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Or am I confused. | 06:05 |
| gabrbedd | akk: yes, that's correct. If you switch away from the app you will not be able to switch back. | 06:05 |
| npm | at that point why shouldn't i just build apps for Android? | 06:05 |
| SpeedEvil | ah. | 06:05 |
| w00t | npm: if X is all that is tying you to meego, then, there isn't any reason | 06:05 |
| *** andyross has joined #meego | 06:05 | |
| npm | the whole point was to be able to use all the existing apps out there | 06:06 |
| w00t | i'd sincerely hope your interests were a little more broad than that :) | 06:06 |
| npm | apps and libs and toolkits | 06:06 |
| akk | If you already have apps that run on linux or in qt or gtk, they can port to meego easily. Just try porting those to android. | 06:06 |
| w00t | apps and libs and toolkits are coming along for the ride | 06:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Does weyland assume that it's running on the hw? | 06:06 |
| w00t | gtk and Qt can both talk to wayland, neither of them require X | 06:06 |
| w00t | if you're using motif or something else, well... you might have some problems | 06:06 |
| akk | xlib can talk to wayland too, unless they've changed the plan since two months ago. | 06:06 |
| npm | well when all the cool apps I run every day in Linux stop working because i'm on wayland, i start asking, why not anddroid? | 06:07 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - it has to hit the hardware? | 06:07 |
| * gabrbedd is using Xlib apps... and there are problems. :-( | 06:07 | |
| w00t | akk: it will, but I can't imagine performance being anything to write home about | 06:07 |
| *** pixelgeek_ has quit IRC | 06:07 | |
| npm | i mean if I'm going to be rewriting apps... rewrite for the largest market? | 06:07 |
| akk | No, performance will probably not be great. | 06:07 |
| w00t | npm: what applications will you be rewriting? | 06:07 |
| akk | But rewriting for android means translating every line of the program into another language, as well as translating the whole UI for a new toolkit. | 06:08 |
| npm | SGI managed to get all manner of video and acceleration on hardware that's probably like a dinosaur... without wayland | 06:08 |
| *** tchan1 is now known as tchan | 06:08 | |
| npm | decades ago | 06:08 |
| *** tchan has quit IRC | 06:08 | |
| *** tchan has joined #meego | 06:08 | |
| gabrbedd | akk: FWIW, in my apps I have to spend most of the time on the UI. The application logic is usually simple by comparison. | 06:08 |
| *** himamura has quit IRC | 06:08 | |
| w00t | you know, I don't think I'll bother, this is a pretty broken-record discussion | 06:09 |
| npm | w00t: http://nielsmayer.com/trainspodder-prototype.jpg | 06:09 |
| akk | gabrbedd: True, but it's still a pain to translate it all to new languages. | 06:09 |
| akk | gabrbedd: I have several apps that I would LOVE to have working on android, but it's just too much hassle. But for meego, it's maybe an hour or two. | 06:09 |
| npm | akk and unless i'm on a platform (Qt) that ports to wayland "easily", i'll be rewriting all those apps | 06:09 |
| npm | at that point, why not rewrite in android? | 06:09 |
| w00t | what apps? | 06:10 |
| w00t | I see a web browser | 06:10 |
| npm | it's a web app | 06:10 |
| w00t | ... | 06:10 |
| npm | hybrid | 06:10 |
| *** pcacjr has joined #meego | 06:10 | |
| w00t | where's the hybrid? | 06:10 |
| akk | web apps will probably be a lot easier in meego than android too. | 06:10 |
| w00t | I see two chrome windows, nothing else | 06:10 |
| npm | QML implementation you aren't seeing | 06:10 |
| w00t | so it's Qt | 06:10 |
| w00t | so you won't be rewriting it | 06:10 |
| w00t | (shocker) | 06:11 |
| *** boiko has joined #meego | 06:11 | |
| npm | it's not in qt yet.. bits and pieces are getting there | 06:11 |
| *** pcacjr has quit IRC | 06:13 | |
| *** pcacjr_ has joined #meego | 06:13 | |
| gabrbedd | w00t: I'm curious... how is this a broken record? I thought I was the only one having this problem. | 06:13 |
| npm | my position on tablet-UX is http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-May/482963.html | 06:14 |
| w00t | gabrbedd: because it's always the same people saying the same things over and over again, and frankly, I have better things to do with my time than to listen to it yet again | 06:14 |
| w00t | (and reply with the same things, yet again) | 06:14 |
| npm | the fact that architects don't understand that standard is better than better is of concern to me. | 06:14 |
| npm | akk -- web apps are easier in android... | 06:16 |
| w00t | your position on the tablet ux is to complain that Qt browsers can't access bugs.meego.com, which was fixed in a later version of Qt? :) | 06:16 |
| *** dl9pf_ has joined #meego | 06:16 | |
| w00t | can't say I understand that | 06:16 |
| *** b0unc3 has joined #meego | 06:16 | |
| *** dl9pf has quit IRC | 06:16 | |
| npm | ?? | 06:17 |
| w00t | try reading the thread you linked to | 06:17 |
| akk | npm: You've actually written them? Android's webview drives me crazy -- you can't even autocomplete in text fields, because key events don't fire. | 06:17 |
| npm | oops | 06:17 |
| *** teve has quit IRC | 06:17 | |
| npm | wrong link | 06:17 |
| akk | npm: even the trivial web apps I have had to be rewritten to make them work at all in android. | 06:17 |
| npm | http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-May/483207.html | 06:18 |
| gabrbedd | npm: OK, I remember that one... and Arjan's response. | 06:19 |
| npm | i'm talking about using web protocols in native apps, not cross-browser issues | 06:19 |
| npm | Arjan's response is troubling, but i didn't feel like getting into a flamewar | 06:19 |
| *** b0unc3_ has quit IRC | 06:20 | |
| npm | it's just that 1.3 is sounding like a release i will skip | 06:20 |
| gabrbedd | npm: I can't say I was crazy about his response... but I'm glad that he spoke plainly about it. :-) | 06:20 |
| npm | since all this new stuff is being thrown together and there's nothing being done to manage complexity | 06:20 |
| npm | and existing bugs aren't getting fixed, so how is all this new stuff going to get fixed? | 06:20 |
| gabrbedd | npm: Here's how it lands, though -- it's up to the device vendors. | 06:21 |
| npm | imho one feature per release is all that can be handled w/ sanity | 06:21 |
| npm | or you get a lot of wasted time w/ big plans that fall through ( e.g. 1.2 ) | 06:21 |
| gabrbedd | npm: If the device vendor wants to support Xlib apps... then they have to ensure that. MeeGo is only going to support the MeeGo API. | 06:21 |
| gabrbedd | npm: And to some extent, this deprecates the Platform API. | 06:22 |
| w00t | or if some interested people want that, likewise | 06:22 |
| w00t | it's not just left to vendors | 06:22 |
| gabrbedd | w00t: right. | 06:22 |
| npm | but the problem is that for example the tablet ux doesn't support "Xlib apps" | 06:22 |
| npm | it only properly suports meego-ux apps | 06:22 |
| w00t | npm: then make it support it | 06:22 |
| w00t | (if you want it) | 06:22 |
| gabrbedd | w00t: but some concepts are less likely to be merged than others. :-) | 06:22 |
| npm | that's impossible w/ the notion that it's ok to break a standard protocol | 06:22 |
| w00t | nothing is impossible | 06:23 |
| gabrbedd | npm: w00t's right. Either add the support to mcompositor... | 06:23 |
| gabrbedd | npm: or switch WM's (like I did) | 06:23 |
| w00t | try discussing how to make it possible while not compromising the design goals of the UX work | 06:23 |
| npm | it's like microsoft breaking HTTP/HTML standards in their browsers... you can do it... but it's bad and causes pain | 06:23 |
| *** phl0x81 has quit IRC | 06:23 | |
| w00t | and assuming you can reach an agreement, start working on it, along with whoever else is interested | 06:23 |
| gabrbedd | npm: in some cases... it's simple to add support for the old protocols. Some others are pretty deep. | 06:25 |
| *** gaveen has joined #meego | 06:25 | |
| gabrbedd | npm: And several fixes/improvements /have/ been merged. | 06:26 |
| w00t | fwiw I'd guess the primary sticking point is the planned wayland move | 06:26 |
| berndhs | how much is that move a plan, and how much is it waiting and hoping ? | 06:26 |
| w00t | that makes any investment in X-related functionality that isn't directly related to the supported MeeGo developer story a bit wasteful, etc | 06:27 |
| npm | the planned wayland move, w/o addressing backards compatibility w/ the myriad toolkits in which peopel write apps for linux | 06:27 |
| w00t | berndhs: it's ongoing, I'd say | 06:27 |
| berndhs | i'm asking how definite the planning is, is it known who does what and when | 06:27 |
| w00t | npm: as I already mentioned, the two major toolkits already support it | 06:27 |
| berndhs | "ongoing" doesnt mean anything | 06:27 |
| w00t | if your pet one doesn't, then you're going to have to convince someone to do it | 06:27 |
| w00t | berndhs: tablet UX already runs under it | 06:28 |
| berndhs | perhaps but not satisfactory | 06:28 |
| npm | see i'd rather have the waiting and hoping happen in other distros, and take the best of breed, and use that | 06:28 |
| w00t | so I'm not sure what else really needs doing there except polishing, which afaik krh is working on | 06:28 |
| berndhs | doesnt support remote display I think, and I read that it is required | 06:28 |
| w00t | npm: meego doesn't really have the luxury of waiting when it's already playing catch-up | 06:28 |
| gabrbedd | npm: wayland is coming to Linux (not just MeeGo). | 06:29 |
| w00t | berndhs: remote display in what sense? | 06:29 |
| berndhs | in the sense that X does | 06:29 |
| gabrbedd | npm: Upstream sees the train coming already. | 06:29 |
| w00t | and what garbrbedd said, too | 06:29 |
| berndhs | and has for 25 years | 06:29 |
| gabrbedd | npm: and it's the proprietary apps that will be hit hardest. | 06:29 |
| w00t | berndhs: I really can't see that being a supported use-case for mobile devices, but even assuming it was, the wayland people do have some plans for things like that | 06:29 |
| berndhs | you cant see it, but I think other people can :) | 06:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Personally - I really want to be able to use larger screens. | 06:30 |
| w00t | if other people can, then it will get worked on | 06:30 |
| npm | proprietary, and the ones that have been hacked on for decades in some grotty toolkit that won't get ported | 06:30 |
| w00t | if they can't, then it won't | 06:30 |
| berndhs | it surely should be a required use case | 06:30 |
| w00t | it's pretty much that simple | 06:30 |
| berndhs | it can't ? | 06:30 |
| berndhs | it has been possible for 25 years | 06:31 |
| gabrbedd | npm: yes, hopefully FLTK will die then. :-p | 06:31 |
| berndhs | its not hard | 06:31 |
| w00t | berndhs: I suspect you didn't parse those two lines together | 06:31 |
| w00t | berndhs: if other people find it to be a supported use case (i.e. important), it'll get worked on, otherwise it won't | 06:31 |
| w00t | (to repeat myself) | 06:31 |
| berndhs | use case is such a weasel word :) | 06:31 |
| npm | gabrbedd: are you volunteering to rewrite fons' apps? | 06:31 |
| npm | :-) | 06:31 |
| gabrbedd | npm: fons uses his own abstraction library. Just need to redefine the primatives. | 06:32 |
| gabrbedd | npm: So.... sure. :-) | 06:32 |
| berndhs | but i was asking about how firm the plans are, aand i guess we dont know between the 4 of us | 06:32 |
| w00t | berndhs: plans for what, specifically? | 06:32 |
| berndhs | wayland, the only thing i have been talking about | 06:33 |
| w00t | yes, now what about wayland? | 06:33 |
| gabrbedd | berndhs: the plan is wayland in MeeGo 1.4. | 06:33 |
| berndhs | so 11 months from now | 06:33 |
| npm | i thought 1.3? | 06:33 |
| gabrbedd | npm: wayland will be "available to play with" in 1.3. | 06:34 |
| w00t | npm: it'll probably be usable for 1.3, but not product-ready | 06:34 |
| berndhs | but my comment on the 1.4 then is that it depends on people outside of MeeGo, most likely | 06:34 |
| npm | actually, if there's a "dual track" that would be great... something stable for peopel to use... and ability to switch to wayland "head" for experiemnts | 06:34 |
| gabrbedd | berndhs: you mean upstream wayland devs? | 06:35 |
| berndhs | right | 06:35 |
| w00t | berndhs: krh (one of those upstream wayland devs) is working on tablet ux on top of wayland, so I'd say it's a pretty safe bet | 06:35 |
| gabrbedd | berndhs: yes. and I'm sure several in MeeGo and Ubuntu are (or will be) participating in that. | 06:35 |
| w00t | he had his presentation running on it actually | 06:36 |
| w00t | was nice :) | 06:36 |
| berndhs | oh im sure it looks nice | 06:36 |
| gabrbedd | berndhs: Arjan has also said that they won't adopt new technologies until they are already fairly mature. | 06:36 |
| w00t | not in terms of looks | 06:36 |
| w00t | all that you saw for the most part were his slides | 06:36 |
| gabrbedd | berndhs: So if wayland is a nightmare this fall... then it won't be happening. | 06:36 |
| w00t | I mean nice in thse sense that it's actually working and reasonably operational already | 06:37 |
| berndhs | also, to diverge a tad, wayland doesnt give meego what Arjan was asking for | 06:37 |
| berndhs | no big leap forward | 06:37 |
| npm | the bottom line is does anybody care about all this geek stuff? does apple sell its gear by talking about it's graphics underpinnings??? | 06:37 |
| andyross | It does seem like wayland is for real though. That's a lot farther than I'd have bet it would be a few months back. | 06:37 |
| berndhs | compared to others at least | 06:37 |
| GAN900 | npm, their engineers do. | 06:37 |
| w00t | npm: apple's developers don't talk to other developers in the public, meego's do | 06:37 |
| GAN900 | npm, yes, it's all irrelevant without any vendors. | 06:38 |
| w00t | andyross: which is good news | 06:38 |
| w00t | berndhs: it's an enabler | 06:38 |
| GAN900 | But we all have our strengths. | 06:38 |
| npm | the developers don't care either. they just want stuff that works a story that's consistent, and not having to port to a new platform everytime some biznessman throws some money aroudn | 06:38 |
| w00t | it isn't the whole solution by itself | 06:38 |
| berndhs | rright, its an enabler, but others have the same enabler | 06:38 |
| gabrbedd | berndhs: actually... wayland + Qt's scenegraph will give what Arjan was talking about... a big leap forward. | 06:38 |
| w00t | yes, so it's another step towards a level playing field :) | 06:39 |
| andyross | Clearly not. And there's a ton of "dumping ground policy" embedded in the existing window and app management code that will need porting to wayland. But the big hurdles seem to be behind it now | 06:39 |
| berndhs | Arajan doesnt want a level playing field, he wants to be fundamentally better | 06:39 |
| *** Guest7308 has joined #meego | 06:39 | |
| berndhs | i agree wwith him | 06:39 |
| w00t | GAN900: seen the computex news, btw? seems there is some hardware about | 06:39 |
| Guest7308 | hello | 06:39 |
| w00t | berndhs: myself too, but I'd rather have that taken with a pinch of caution so we don't massively break everything.. scenegraph and wayland work now, but i'd much rather see them next year when the kinks are worked out than rush them in straight away for instance :) | 06:40 |
| *** bdub has quit IRC | 06:40 | |
| berndhs | oh im not saying i want wayland sooner | 06:40 |
| andyross | Or conversely, break everything now before there are apps in the wild with embedded Xlib hackery | 06:41 |
| Guest7308 | hey can v chat | 06:41 |
| *** nslu2-log has quit IRC | 06:41 | |
| npm | i think meego should do all the stuff that arjan talked about, but with shorter release cycles (3 month?) and one feature per release | 06:41 |
| *** nslu2-log has joined #meego | 06:42 | |
| npm | giving four features per year.... | 06:42 |
| GAN900 | w00t, netbooks are on the march to irrelevancy. | 06:42 |
| andyross | npm, I think something like that was the original intent. but the 1.2 cycle got a bit scrambled, obvoiusly | 06:42 |
| w00t | GAN900: good thing it wasn't just a netbook, then | 06:43 |
| npm | i'm concerned about all sorts of new features interacting badly in each new release (factorial or exponential complexity on each new feature) | 06:43 |
| w00t | GAN900: but any hardware is good hardware, anyhow | 06:43 |
| * gabrbedd seems to remember arjan being disappointed about "only 3 new things/improvements for 1.2" | 06:43 | |
| berndhs | npm: there are too many things going on at once to restrict to 1 "feature" per release | 06:43 |
| andyross | Only three? Whole new app stack counts as what, 1? :) | 06:44 |
| npm | and along with "architecture" MeeGo also needs some complexity-management "science"... like the guys that plan space launches and major construction projects | 06:44 |
| gabrbedd | andyross: I'm just the messenger. :-p | 06:44 |
| GAN900 | w00t, missed the 2nd announcement, clearly. | 06:44 |
| w00t | GAN900: i'm pretty sure some tablet or other from acer got announced, to launch later this year | 06:45 |
| GAN900 | Ah | 06:45 |
| GAN900 | I want handsets | 06:45 |
| w00t | custom UI, looked interesting | 06:45 |
| GAN900 | The three things in MeeGo I care about seem to be the most neglected. | 06:45 |
| w00t | me too, but well, I'll bide my time | 06:45 |
| gabrbedd | w00t: the one with the windows going around like a deck of cards? I liked that idea. :-) | 06:45 |
| w00t | gabrbedd: yeah | 06:45 |
| andyross | btrfs landed in 1.2, so that's a fairly major one (even if there's no framework integration to use the nifty features yet). So two. The only serious feature that missed that I can think of off hand is the security model, which totally whiffed, sadly. | 06:46 |
| * w00t is glad the security framework got suffocated at birth | 06:46 | |
| w00t | yuck | 06:46 |
| gabrbedd | andyross: I seem to recall BTRFS all the way back in 1.0. | 06:46 |
| berndhs | people where whining about btrfs before 1.0 | 06:47 |
| andyross | btrfs has been building in the kernel forever, yeah. But the images are actually installing into it now. And my heart is with w00t about the security model, but my head points out that it's still a huge hole for a consumer device. All apps run in a single user account right now, that's really not shipable to an app market as-is. | 06:48 |
| GAN900 | Seats in the new terminal at SJC have GFI plugs and USB ports in all of the armrests. | 06:48 |
| *** Guest7308 has quit IRC | 06:48 | |
| SpeedEvil | GFI?/ | 06:49 |
| gabrbedd | Ground Fault Indicator (i.e. a power outlet) | 06:49 |
| andyross | I guess my view for inside the bubble (well, on the periphery anyway) is that 1.2 was a pretty major step forward. MeeGo went from being a mostly-demoable kludge to something the decidedly doesn't suck. My toddler was playing flash games last weekend on an ExoPC | 06:49 |
| mikeleib | w00t: ping | 06:49 |
| w00t | andyross: well, having an actual UI (or at least the basis of one) is a good thing :) | 06:49 |
| w00t | mikeleib: pong | 06:49 |
| gabrbedd | s/Indicator/Interrupter/ | 06:50 |
| infobot | gabrbedd meant: Ground Fault Interrupter (i.e. a power outlet) | 06:50 |
| mikeleib | re: bug 18268 | 06:50 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18268 maj, High, ---, michael.leibowitz, ASSI, meego-qml-launcher takes a lot of memory | 06:50 |
| * w00t guesses this will be about memory use of meego-qml-launcher :-) | 06:50 | |
| w00t | haha, what a guess | 06:50 |
| mikeleib | indeed | 06:50 |
| mikeleib | I think your initial patch with some minor hackery will likely work | 06:50 |
| npm | btrfs: yeah it was one of the advertised features that had meego performing better than other distros at the time | 06:50 |
| berndhs | buy more memory. oh wait,... | 06:50 |
| w00t | mikeleib: do you still see any flash when reverting to GL? | 06:50 |
| w00t | mikeleib: if so, I can point you in a likely direction to debug.. I just don't have the time to do it myself | 06:51 |
| mikeleib | There is a visible artifact.. but there's also a visible artifact anyway | 06:51 |
| mikeleib | I can't tell if it's a regression or not | 06:51 |
| mikeleib | all my systems seem to wedge for other reasons before I get a chance to play with them much | 06:51 |
| *** TSCHAKeee has quit IRC | 06:52 | |
| mikeleib | w00t: feel free to send me areas to look at | 06:52 |
| w00t | btw, use QMetaObject::invokeMethod, not a singleShot timer, it's rather pedantic since a 0-ms timer will be equivilent to an invokeMethod anyway, but it'll save you a method call | 06:52 |
| *** TSCHAKeee has joined #meego | 06:52 | |
| mikeleib | ohyeah | 06:52 |
| mikeleib | it is the same under the hood. that's true | 06:53 |
| w00t | and, that isn't a good sign... | 06:53 |
| w00t | were they blowing up before these patches? :) | 06:53 |
| mikeleib | sometimes ;) | 06:53 |
| mikeleib | It may be a bug on a particular graphics stack | 06:54 |
| mikeleib | for unrelated reasons, we aren't painting the background. When we stopped doing that, the most onerous flicker disappeared | 06:55 |
| *** anab1s has quit IRC | 06:55 | |
| *** blindfish_ has joined #meego | 06:55 | |
| *** DawnFoster has joined #meego | 06:56 | |
| w00t | that's good news | 06:56 |
| w00t | let me find a video of the flicker I saw | 06:56 |
| w00t | for you to compare | 06:56 |
| mikeleib | k | 06:56 |
| w00t | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy10RPxLEn4 | 06:57 |
| w00t | the same was visible on the lenovo s10t, more or less (or slightly shorter) duration | 06:57 |
| w00t | I guess you're not seeing it | 06:57 |
| w00t | = good news | 06:57 |
| *** tgall_foo has quit IRC | 06:57 | |
| *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC | 06:58 | |
| *** blindfish has quit IRC | 06:59 | |
| mikeleib | it's much shorter than that | 06:59 |
| mikeleib | yes. I observed that same flash on an s10.. when it wasn't wedging all the time | 06:59 |
| mikeleib | I've had a bad hardware day :( | 06:59 |
| w00t | ah, if you see one, there is still a problem | 06:59 |
| w00t | but I guess, perhaps not a blocker :) | 06:59 |
| mikeleib | oh.. I mean. I observed the same flash on an s10 before we stopped painting the background | 07:00 |
| mikeleib | now, it is much smaller | 07:00 |
| w00t | oh! | 07:00 |
| w00t | cool :) | 07:00 |
| w00t | (ouch, painting the background would have been expensive too) | 07:00 |
| mikeleib | feel free to try the patches out | 07:02 |
| akk | How do you use a package from osc from a meego device? I can't find anything about that on the wiki. | 07:03 |
| *** thiago_home has joined #meego | 07:03 | |
| mikeleib | akk: not sure exactly what you mean | 07:03 |
| w00t | mikeleib: no promises, I will try to do so this weekend.. if you have them somewhere in a repo already, that would save me some time | 07:04 |
| w00t | I'll also have to badger someone else to do the n900 testing as mine gave up the ghost while I was in san francisco | 07:04 |
| special | w00t: speaking of, did I steal your microsd card? | 07:04 |
| akk | mikeleib: I made this obs/osc (I'm confused about the diff between them) repository, and other people have other stuff hosted there, and it's all being built by these build servers. | 07:04 |
| w00t | ... | 07:04 |
| w00t | special: see other window | 07:04 |
| GAN900 | w00t, get another one? | 07:04 |
| akk | mikeleib: So with this built software, how do you install and run it on a device? | 07:04 |
| mikeleib | w00t: home:mikeleib:branches:devel:meego-ux | 07:05 |
| w00t | mikeleib: excellent, thanks | 07:05 |
| mikeleib | akk: osc getbinaries is one way | 07:05 |
| mikeleib | It will give you rpms you can install | 07:05 |
| special | haha | 07:05 |
| akk | mikeleib: so install osc with zypper, then use osc getbinaries, to get an rpm, then rpm -i to install it? | 07:06 |
| berndhs | akk: you can add the repositories to the zypper database on the device | 07:06 |
| mikeleib | that's also another way | 07:06 |
| berndhs | akk: then install with zypper | 07:06 |
| w00t | GAN900: i .. might, if it's still even possible | 07:06 |
| w00t | iirc my n900 is actually still under warranty | 07:06 |
| mikeleib | it depends on if the repos are published | 07:06 |
| w00t | i should really check that quickly, before it goes out of warrranty :) | 07:06 |
| akk | berndhs: What do the repository names look like? What's a sample of them? I take it this isn't documented anywhere yet? | 07:07 |
| mikeleib | akk: like this | 07:07 |
| mikeleib | http://download.meego.com/live/home:/mikeleib:/branches:/devel:/meego-ux/MeeGo_1.2/ | 07:07 |
| berndhs | they are called something.repo | 07:07 |
| w00t | (for the record, yes, special stole my microsd :'() | 07:08 |
| mikeleib | the repo files may not actually work in zypper | 07:08 |
| mikeleib | bug 11904 | 07:08 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11904 nor, Undecided, ---, maemo, NEW, .repo files that build server creates cause error in zypper | 07:08 |
| berndhs | my repo file works for me :) | 07:09 |
| berndhs | but they dont automatically refresh | 07:09 |
| mikeleib | could be resolved/worksforme | 07:10 |
| * mikeleib dunno why it's assigned to xfade | 07:10 | |
| akk | berndhs: I'm confused, how would I get that http://download.meego.com/live/home:/mikeleib:/branches:/devel:/meego-ux/MeeGo_1.2/ from a build.pub.meego.com username? (or packagename or whatever) | 07:11 |
| *** himamura has joined #meego | 07:11 | |
| akk | sorry, that was for mikeleib | 07:12 |
| berndhs | you get the home:username from their name, and the rest from the kind of branch you want ot follow | 07:12 |
| mikeleib | teh web interface barfed it out for me | 07:12 |
| mikeleib | but osc meta knows I think | 07:12 |
| andyross | I find every time I use osc I end up screaming at it and just use the web UI. It's not awful. Then again, I don't do much serious packaging. | 07:12 |
| mikeleib | you can't win | 07:13 |
| berndhs | i make new empty packages with the web interface, and the rest from osc | 07:13 |
| mikeleib | making packages with osc is easier | 07:13 |
| akk | mikeleib: I tried substituting my name for yours and got a 404 (even if I pulled off the branch-specific parts). Do I need to do something special to create a repo after I get programs building? | 07:13 |
| mikeleib | It may be that publishing is not enabled | 07:14 |
| *** b0unc3_ has joined #meego | 07:14 | |
| mikeleib | akk: what project are you trying to use? | 07:14 |
| akk | mikeleib: This is me: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Aakkana# | 07:14 |
| berndhs | http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/akkana/MeeGo_1.2_Apps_MeeGo_1.2_standard/ | 07:14 |
| berndhs | that is where your repo file is | 07:15 |
| mikeleib | http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/akkana/MeeGo_1.2_Apps_MeeGo_1.2_standard/ | 07:15 |
| berndhs | :) | 07:15 |
| mikeleib | that's what I get for not looking before I paste | 07:15 |
| akk | Cool, thanks. Where would I have gotten that? | 07:15 |
| mikeleib | I got it from webui | 07:15 |
| akk | how? | 07:15 |
| berndhs | list all projects | 07:15 |
| mikeleib | /https://build.pub.meego.com/project/repository_state?project=home%3Aakkana&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Apps_MeeGo_1.2_standard | 07:15 |
| akk | (I'm trying to document this, so people coming after me will be able to figure it out) | 07:15 |
| * andyross notices that build.pub.meego.com has prettier web indexes than build.meego.com | 07:16 | |
| mikeleib | I noticed that too | 07:16 |
| akk | I don't see a "list all projects" | 07:16 |
| andyross | lighttpd vs. apache I guess | 07:16 |
| * mikeleib looks for way to do this with osc | 07:16 | |
| berndhs | front page, "List of All Projects" | 07:17 |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 07:17 | |
| gabrbedd | akk: Here's how *I* discovered the repositories... | 07:17 |
| gabrbedd | akk: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/binaries?package=PyTopo&project=home%3Aakkana&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Apps_MeeGo_1.2_standard | 07:17 |
| mikeleib | osc repourls | 07:18 |
| *** thiagoss has quit IRC | 07:18 | |
| gabrbedd | akk: There's a link at the top that says "go to download repository" | 07:18 |
| mikeleib | cli FTW | 07:18 |
| akk | gabrbedd: How did you even get to that page? e.g. starting from https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=PyTopo&project=home%3Aakkana | 07:18 |
| mikeleib | akk: screw it.. just use osc | 07:19 |
| andyross | mikeleib: If you were serious about it you'd have posted a script using curl and the REST API instead of osc. | 07:19 |
| akk | mikeleib: What's the osc command? | 07:19 |
| mikeleib | osc repourls | 07:19 |
| gabrbedd | akk: from here... https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=PyTopo&project=home%3Aakkana | 07:19 |
| mikeleib | andyross: curl is fer wimps.. use nc | 07:20 |
| andyross | touche | 07:20 |
| *** yanshuang has quit IRC | 07:20 | |
| gabrbedd | akk: It makes more sense to click on the "MeeGo_1.2_Apps_MeeGo..." link when you have more than one target distribution listed. | 07:20 |
| akk | argh, osc is prompting me for keyring again. I thought I got it to stop doing that. | 07:20 |
| akk | gabrbedd: Aha! yes, that takes me to the page you gave, thanks. | 07:21 |
| akk | and osc repourls works (modulo always prompting me for the stupid keyring), thanks mikeleib | 07:23 |
| DawnFoster | mikeleib: will you be around the office tomorrow? | 07:23 |
| mikeleib | jup | 07:23 |
| DawnFoster | mikeleib: henri bergius is visiting and wants to chat location stuff | 07:24 |
| akk | I wish osc would pay attention to keyring=0 in .oscrc like it's supposed to. | 07:24 |
| DawnFoster | mikeleib: i'll swing by with him tomorrow | 07:24 |
| mikeleib | okee | 07:25 |
| Stskeeps | which reminds me that i should see mikeleib's talk video :P | 07:25 |
| mikeleib | there's a video? | 07:26 |
| Stskeeps | well i hope there will be | 07:26 |
| mikeleib | how embarrassing | 07:26 |
| *** DawnFoster has quit IRC | 07:27 | |
| *** DawnFoster has joined #meego | 07:28 | |
| akk | oh, good, osc is in python. Maybe I can fix the broken keyring stuff myself. | 07:29 |
| Stskeeps | hmm. senior engineer job about meego in sunnyvale, CA about meego | 07:30 |
| Stskeeps | at nokia | 07:30 |
| Stskeeps | that's kind of tempting to apply for | 07:30 |
| GAN900 | Dooo iiittt | 07:30 |
| akk | I thought nokia was laying off meego devs here? | 07:30 |
| Stskeeps | we're still around in meego, despite all the media claming we're not :) | 07:31 |
| *** Aparna has joined #meego | 07:31 | |
| mikeleib | Intel is always looking for top talent. jobs.intel.com ;) | 07:31 |
| Stskeeps | mikeleib: yeah.. my general statement is that i still feel i have a mission to fullfill with MeeGo ARM ;) | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | but yeah, worst case scenario ;) | 07:32 |
| mikeleib | x86 is waaaay more better than ARM | 07:32 |
| GAN900 | For phones? | 07:32 |
| GAN900 | I think they call that brain damage. | 07:33 |
| mikeleib | ohyeah.. they're sooper | 07:33 |
| *** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC | 07:34 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer has joined #meego | 07:34 | |
| * dm8tbr would immediately advocate intel for embedded if he didn't have this gut feeling that they'll just be another soc vendor and pull things like an SGX core with binary only drivers that then cause lots of problems | 07:35 | |
| berndhs | good night folks | 07:35 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: 'be'? 'am', though the xorg side is open for once | 07:36 |
| Stskeeps | see pvr-mrst-bin | 07:36 |
| *** berndhs has left #meego | 07:36 | |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: they are slowly getting into the SoC business, so far STB but not handheld devices | 07:36 |
| *** miksuh has quit IRC | 07:37 | |
| dm8tbr | and IIRC the STB SoC does have an SGX core | 07:37 |
| Robot101 | Stskeeps: with KMS drivers in the kernel, the xorg driver can become hardware independent anyway - so an open X driver is really less exciting nowadays :P | 07:38 |
| *** miksuh has joined #meego | 07:38 | |
| Stskeeps | Robot101: can't wait to get rid of xorg.. wayland's so much easier to deal with :P | 07:38 |
| w00t | wayland, cheeeya! | 07:39 |
| Robot101 | wootland | 07:40 |
| w00t | (robot101, either you're up insanely late/early like I am, or you're wandering the globe again :P) | 07:40 |
| * Robot101 is in Montreal | 07:40 | |
| w00t | ah, that explains that | 07:40 |
| w00t | how's things over there? | 07:40 |
| Robot101 | just got back from (semi-working) dinner after all-day long meetings | 07:40 |
| DawnFoster | hey w00t! recovered from meegoconf yet? | 07:40 |
| *** puffin has quit IRC | 07:40 | |
| Robot101 | good, the city is starting to grow on me :) | 07:41 |
| w00t | DawnFoster: still maaaaaadly sunburned | 07:41 |
| w00t | I'm peeling everywhere | 07:41 |
| Robot101 | see what happens when you leave the safety of the conference hotel? :P | 07:41 |
| Stskeeps | didn't we tell you to use suncream? :P | 07:41 |
| GAN900 | Haha, silly West coast UV. | 07:41 |
| w00t | turns out going outside my basement wasn't a good idea | 07:41 |
| DawnFoster | w00t: ooooh, ouch | 07:41 |
| *** andyross has quit IRC | 07:41 | |
| DawnFoster | w00t: admit it, it was worth it | 07:41 |
| GAN900 | Even the dumb Floridian managed to get burnt. | 07:41 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: by the time I was able to buy some, it was too late | 07:41 |
| * Robot101 has been to way too many cities only to see the inside of the airport, convention centre and my hotel :/ | 07:41 | |
| mikeleib | there was an outdoors there? | 07:42 |
| w00t | Robot101: yeah, i'm glad i took the few extra days to tour tbh | 07:42 |
| w00t | DawnFoster: it was :) | 07:42 |
| Robot101 | w00t: yeah if I'd not been to SF a few times before I totally would've too :D | 07:42 |
| DawnFoster | w00t: and thanks again for doing the keynote demo | 07:42 |
| w00t | i still say america is weird | 07:42 |
| w00t | (that was my first visit) | 07:42 |
| Robot101 | w00t: yeah it's not quite right is it? :P | 07:42 |
| DawnFoster | people are still saying that was one of the highlights | 07:42 |
| w00t | DawnFoster: np! in retrospect, i loved every minute, especially forcing special to write QML right up until the last minute | 07:43 |
| w00t | >:) | 07:43 |
| DawnFoster | :) | 07:43 |
| w00t | I don't think he'll ever forgive me, but hey | 07:43 |
| DawnFoster | so how is america weird (not disagreeing with you, btw)? | 07:44 |
| * mikeleib couldn't do much conferencing.. had to run back to office to hack more meego | 07:44 | |
| akk | Hmm, that .repo URL I got from osc repourls is wrong -- it goes to download.opensuse.org and gives me a 404 | 07:44 |
| w00t | DawnFoster: it's ... hard to sum up, really, just that people's attitudes and ways of life seem quite different | 07:44 |
| Robot101 | mikeleib: I thought I saw you sneaking around :) | 07:44 |
| akk | the one from the web UI goes to a real file | 07:44 |
| special | w00t: I can just keep your microsd card, among other things | 07:44 |
| gabrbedd | w00t: where is $HOME for you? | 07:45 |
| Robot101 | coffee is too big and not as good, soda tastes like doritos, sockets and lightswitches all look like they're from the 50s, toilets are too low, streets are too wide, sidewalks are too high, rooms have too many lamps instead of lights on the ceiling... | 07:45 |
| mikeleib | akk: bug in OBS | 07:45 |
| *** yanshuang has joined #meego | 07:45 | |
| w00t | gabrbedd: i'm what i like to refer to as "geographically confused", I grew up in australia, moved to the UK, and I'm getting ready for another move to norway in a month or two (where my other half is from) | 07:45 |
| w00t | Robot101: that's a pretty good summary tbh | 07:46 |
| w00t | the toilet at the hotel I was in was amazing | 07:46 |
| special | Robot101: coffee is perfect, we invented soda, streets need to be wide to fit our cars.. :p | 07:46 |
| w00t | I swear it was built for dwarves | 07:46 |
| mikeleib | Robot101: good coffee can be found | 07:46 |
| Robot101 | mikeleib: I know, especially in SF, Portland, etc :) | 07:46 |
| Robot101 | mikeleib: but on average, if you're in a hotel and take breakfast, the coffee is an affront to humanity | 07:47 |
| w00t | I am now a starbucks addict :'( | 07:47 |
| special | don't judge american coffee by the hyatt's coffee. That was terrible. | 07:47 |
| gabrbedd | Robot101: FULL ACK on hotel coffee | 07:47 |
| mikeleib | starbucks is commonly available medium quality coffee | 07:47 |
| Robot101 | special: no it's across the whole country, the swill that's sloshed out of those flasks every morning, is terrible | 07:47 |
| *** himamura has quit IRC | 07:48 | |
| Robot101 | lukewarm flavourless pap which makes me want to go back to bed, not moving me to a new plane of consciousness like I expect from a decent coffee :D | 07:48 |
| special | It'd be better if it was flavorless. | 07:48 |
| w00t | hahaha | 07:48 |
| w00t | yeahhhh.. the hyatt coffee was.. | 07:48 |
| w00t | well, I gave up on it after sunday | 07:48 |
| special | (and note the distinctly omitted 'u' in 'flavor') | 07:48 |
| * w00t slaps a u into special and removes his 'z's with the same slap | 07:49 | |
| w00t | speak properly | 07:49 |
| Robot101 | in the ferry building across from the hyatt, there's a bluebottle coffee | 07:49 |
| w00t | i will force you to when you're over here | 07:49 |
| Robot101 | <3 | 07:49 |
| gabrbedd | good night everyone! | 07:49 |
| w00t | gabrbedd: night! | 07:49 |
| gabrbedd | iekku: good morning! | 07:49 |
| * gabrbedd sleeps | 07:49 | |
| * w00t is unsure whether he should try nap or just stat work | 07:50 | |
| w00t | *start | 07:50 |
| Robot101 | and the differences between UK and US English are pretty funny when you run into them :) | 07:50 |
| w00t | I honestly don't think productive sleep would come at this time of day | 07:50 |
| w00t | Robot101: entree was one that confused the hell out of me for a good 30 seconds or so | 07:50 |
| * Stskeeps hearts seeing someone on meego-qa asking about 'document for newcomers' | 07:51 | |
| Stskeeps | someone has learnt! | 07:51 |
| Stskeeps | especially with 'how about we create it' | 07:51 |
| * pixelgeek thinks sleep is a good move too - night all | 07:52 | |
| *** boiko has quit IRC | 07:52 | |
| Robot101 | more meetings tomorrow... 'night all | 07:53 |
| *** boiko has joined #meego | 07:53 | |
| w00t | Robot101: nite | 07:53 |
| * GAN900 redeye flights. | 07:53 | |
| w00t | GAN900: where? | 07:53 |
| GAN900 | SJC to ATL to TPA | 07:54 |
| w00t | eek | 07:54 |
| *** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake | 07:54 | |
| GAN900 | Getting in about 8 hours from now. | 07:54 |
| *** techshaddy has joined #meego | 07:54 | |
| w00t | that's quite a trip | 07:54 |
| GAN900 | Yeah | 07:54 |
| GAN900 | Was going to fly out Sunday | 07:54 |
| GAN900 | But long-lived stomach bug | 07:54 |
| *** niku_ has quit IRC | 07:55 | |
| w00t | special: ^^ | 07:55 |
| w00t | seems you're not the onlyo ne to get sick :P | 07:55 |
| GAN900 | Lots of international disease mingling. | 07:55 |
| special | I'm still blaming kamilla. | 07:56 |
| w00t | lol | 07:56 |
| w00t | she's still not over her cold/flu/??? | 07:56 |
| w00t | amazingly, i still haven't caught it | 07:57 |
| *** pixelgeek has quit IRC | 08:00 | |
| Myrtti | SCORE \o/ Weird Stuff Warehouse - found one more USB Cuevat | 08:02 |
| Myrtti | Cuecat, even | 08:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I've - somewhere - got 4 ps//2 | 08:02 |
| *** techshaddy has quit IRC | 08:03 | |
| *** techshaddy has joined #meego | 08:04 | |
| Myrtti | they're great :-) Finnish paper bills (for electricity, water, mail order, anything) have a barcode that you can scan into Internet banking sites, with all the info of the bill | 08:04 |
| mikeleib | cuecats? | 08:04 |
| Myrtti | gonna mod one and give it to my sister, she is still into paper bills | 08:04 |
| Myrtti | I use mine to scan in ISBN codes of my books and put them into Alexandria or LibraryThing | 08:05 |
| mikeleib | like from the .com days? | 08:05 |
| *** TSCHAKeee has quit IRC | 08:05 | |
| Myrtti | mikeleib: yup, the same | 08:05 |
| mikeleib | with ps/2 passthru? | 08:05 |
| *** TSCHAKeee has joined #meego | 08:05 | |
| *** akk has quit IRC | 08:05 | |
| * mikeleib fails to see greatness | 08:06 | |
| Myrtti | mikeleib: they're cheaper than any other barcode reader that can be hooked into USB... | 08:07 |
| mikeleib | webcam? | 08:07 |
| Myrtti | I've never managed to get that working | 08:08 |
| * mikeleib sees emacs code to make cuecat werk from within emacs | 08:09 | |
| * TSCHAKeee chuckles | 08:10 | |
| TSCHAKeee | I was present, at the first media announcement of the CueCat and the AudioCat | 08:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | July 15, 2000 | 08:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | at the Westin, in Dallas... | 08:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | it was an event put on by Digital Convergence and Belo Interactive | 08:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | (which owns Channel 8 and the Dallas Morning News) | 08:12 |
| Myrtti | BF just met the inventor a month ago here in Silicon Valley | 08:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | heh;) | 08:12 |
| mikeleib | I think I got one in the mail | 08:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | we had arrived roughly 20 minutes late | 08:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | me, and two business partners | 08:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | and sat in the back of the room | 08:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | of a room FULL of black suit, black tie | 08:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | high powered grey haired senior executives | 08:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | and here we were, sport jackets... | 08:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | i had long shoulder length hair | 08:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | we did not belong there | 08:14 |
| * mikeleib hacks in the t-shirt and jeans | 08:14 | |
| TSCHAKeee | and we sat at the back of the room | 08:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | as they described the system | 08:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | and we literally did a security analysis on the fly | 08:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | at the back of the room, with my partner martin tapping on a keyboard attached to a handspring visor | 08:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | just putting together notes | 08:15 |
| TSCHAKeee | and they had a Q&A session at the end of the show | 08:15 |
| npm | i've seen gstreamer pipelines that invoke zbar(1) from camera to read barcode | 08:15 |
| *** srag has quit IRC | 08:15 | |
| * TSCHAKeee actually has a real honest to god story to tell, can you be any more rude? | 08:15 | |
| npm | probably :-) | 08:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | it had gotten to the end of the event... | 08:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | and they point to me at the back of the room, | 08:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | "And yes, the...woman at the back of the room?" | 08:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | ...I'm a guy. | 08:17 |
| mikeleib | did you ask your question in a high voice, at least? | 08:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | I chuckle a little..and the guy seems a bit surprised, when I start speaking | 08:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | heheh | 08:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | but I asked the following question, | 08:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | "Consider the following scenario, you have an audio cat signal that you know that will be broadcast on the 6 o'clock news... This may show, a website relating to a news article, whatever... what security measures are you putting in place, in case somebody decides to poison the domain servers of a target site, or doing a man in the middle attack, redirecting the audioCat link to a malicious site??" | 08:19 |
| TSCHAKeee | "It would be a highly coordinated virus launching." | 08:19 |
| TSCHAKeee | you have never heard | 08:19 |
| TSCHAKeee | the oxygen | 08:19 |
| TSCHAKeee | get sucked out of a room so quickly in your life. | 08:19 |
| TSCHAKeee | everybody went pale | 08:20 |
| TSCHAKeee | and the CTO (Chris Matthews) literally darted for the door, as the spokesperson was saying, "Well, this is something that our CTO could definitely answer... Chris?? Chris??" | 08:20 |
| TSCHAKeee | everybody in the room, came to talk to us after the event, and we didn't leave for another two hours. | 08:21 |
| TSCHAKeee | a small postscript | 08:21 |
| TSCHAKeee | the next day, we get an angry call from the CEO of the company (Jovan....shit, I forget his name now...) | 08:21 |
| TSCHAKeee | asking, "ARE YOU GUYS THE FUCKERS WHO EMBARRASSED US AT OUR LAUNCH EVENT?!" | 08:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | "Yes." | 08:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | "ARE YOU GUYS AN ACCREDITED SECURITY FIRM?!" | 08:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | "No. We are an independent research and development firm." | 08:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | "WELL, WE DON'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU! WE HAVE MORE MONEY THAN GOD! IF YOU SAY ANYTHING ELSE TO ANYONE, WE'LL SUE YOU!" | 08:23 |
| *** srag has joined #meego | 08:23 | |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 08:23 |
| TSCHAKeee | "That's fine. You might be interested to know, that all of your servers have a DNS vulnerability that makes them vulnerable to cache poisoning, and invasion by rootkit. Your data is in danger of being compromised." | 08:23 |
| TSCHAKeee | "You need to apply these fixes.. (and we listed them)" | 08:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | "WE HAVE EXPERIENCED PEOPLE WHO DO ALL THIS!" | 08:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | "Ok.. also, your CueCat encryption was very simple to break, others will break it too." | 08:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | "IF YOU TELL ANYONE ANYTHING, WE WILL SUE YOU!" | 08:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | "Ok, we will not. Feel free to send over any NDA you wish. But you should heed our warning." | 08:25 |
| *** Termana has joined #meego | 08:25 | |
| TSCHAKeee | "YOU WILL HEAR FROM OUR ATTORNEYS! GOOD BYE!" | 08:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | we never did...but... | 08:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | the next week, a perl script showed up, which "cracked" the CueCat encryption | 08:25 |
| Termana | morning | 08:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | the week after that | 08:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | Digital Convergence's servers were cracked, stealing hundreds of thousands of subscriber data, credit card info from magazine subscribers | 08:26 |
| TSCHAKeee | who were sent cuecats. | 08:26 |
| TSCHAKeee | not long after, Digital Convergence, and the cue cat, were history. | 08:26 |
| TSCHAKeee | anyway..that's my story. fin. ;) | 08:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | I feel damned good that i played an active part in making those idiot fuckers burn in hell. | 08:27 |
| * mikeleib froots with automake | 08:29 | |
| TSCHAKeee | yay autobreak | 08:29 |
| dm8tbr | ah autotools always a source of entertainment | 08:31 |
| Termana | "accredited" security firm? I didn't know anyone was going around "accrediting" security firms now, unless that guy was just a tool. Which he sounds like he was regardless. | 08:31 |
| *** the-light has joined #meego | 08:32 | |
| TSCHAKeee | Termana: "Tool" | 08:32 |
| TSCHAKeee | Termana: the term he used was "Tiger Team" | 08:32 |
| TSCHAKeee | which made me almost chuckle | 08:32 |
| TSCHAKeee | it took everything to keep me from chuckling | 08:32 |
| Termana | lol :p | 08:33 |
| dm8tbr | which is a valid term, though totally weird in context | 08:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | but yeah, this was the end of the dot com boom | 08:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | dumb marketeers snow jobbing everybody | 08:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | and most people too dumb to know that they were being shown smoke and mirrors | 08:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | and we were just these young kids.. I was BARELY in my 20s. | 08:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | I was 20 years old. | 08:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | we had gotten invited to this crazy ass junket | 08:35 |
| TSCHAKeee | because the guy who funded us, put money into Belo. | 08:35 |
| TSCHAKeee | dumb luck. | 08:35 |
| *** sheepbat has quit IRC | 08:42 | |
| *** Shoruken has joined #meego | 08:43 | |
| *** Shoruken has quit IRC | 08:46 | |
| *** makulkar has joined #meego | 08:47 | |
| *** pcacjr_ has quit IRC | 08:52 | |
| *** GonzoTheGreat_ has joined #meego | 08:53 | |
| *** GonzoTheGreat_ has left #meego | 08:55 | |
| *** reed has quit IRC | 08:55 | |
| *** GonzoTheGreat_ has joined #meego | 08:55 | |
| *** mikhas has joined #meego | 08:55 | |
| *** boiko has quit IRC | 08:56 | |
| *** arvind_khadri has joined #meego | 08:58 | |
| *** GonzoTheGreat_ has left #meego | 08:58 | |
| *** GonzoTheGreat_ has joined #meego | 08:58 | |
| mikeleib | how do you ask osc to rebuild yer package? | 08:58 |
| *** GonzoTheGreat_ has left #meego | 08:59 | |
| *** GonzoTheGreat_ has joined #meego | 08:59 | |
| Stskeeps | osc rebuild? | 09:03 |
| mikeleib | indeed | 09:04 |
| *** gbraad has quit IRC | 09:05 | |
| *** GonzoTheGreat_ has quit IRC | 09:05 | |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 09:05 | |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 09:05 | |
| *** GonzoTheGreat has joined #meego | 09:06 | |
| mikeleib | w00t | 09:06 |
| *** tomma has joined #meego | 09:06 | |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 09:06 | |
| * mikeleib beats the timelag on the obs builder | 09:06 | |
| *** Richrd has joined #meego | 09:07 | |
| *** gaveen has quit IRC | 09:09 | |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 09:10 | |
| *** mikhas has quit IRC | 09:11 | |
| *** mmc has joined #meego | 09:14 | |
| *** gbraad has joined #meego | 09:18 | |
| *** gbraad has joined #meego | 09:18 | |
| *** jrocha has joined #meego | 09:20 | |
| *** andre__ has joined #meego | 09:20 | |
| *** andre__ has quit IRC | 09:20 | |
| *** andre__ has joined #meego | 09:20 | |
| mikeleib | 'night hackers | 09:28 |
| *** GonzoTheGreat has quit IRC | 09:29 | |
| *** billyjam has joined #meego | 09:29 | |
| *** gbraad has quit IRC | 09:30 | |
| *** aleksander_m has joined #meego | 09:31 | |
| *** acydlord has quit IRC | 09:31 | |
| *** Ans5i has joined #meego | 09:31 | |
| *** acydlord has joined #meego | 09:33 | |
| *** arfoll has joined #meego | 09:35 | |
| *** sergiusens has joined #meego | 09:36 | |
| *** gbraad has joined #meego | 09:37 | |
| *** tomeu has joined #meego | 09:38 | |
| *** maligor has quit IRC | 09:39 | |
| *** maligor has joined #meego | 09:39 | |
| *** pramodxyle has joined #meego | 09:39 | |
| sofar | did I miss a party in here or what? | 09:41 |
| *** x_O has joined #meego | 09:42 | |
| Stskeeps | dunno | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | i'm waking up to people stating arm builds saying 'rpm --initdb' doesn't work on OBS arm builds :) | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | fun stuff | 09:42 |
| arfoll | just trying to keep you entertained ;-) | 09:44 |
| *** swc|666 has quit IRC | 09:44 | |
| sofar | speaking of TV | 09:45 |
| sofar | and other messes | 09:45 |
| sofar | arfoll: lol@ repo dancing | 09:45 |
| arfoll | sofar, repo dancing? | 09:45 |
| *** Richrd has quit IRC | 09:49 | |
| *** Richrd has joined #meego | 09:49 | |
| *** chris-qBT has joined #meego | 09:49 | |
| *** acydlord has quit IRC | 09:54 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #meego | 09:55 | |
| *** dazo_afk is now known as dazo | 09:56 | |
| *** zgyarmati has joined #meego | 09:57 | |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 09:57 | |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 09:57 | |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 09:58 | |
| sofar | for a moment there, I though TSCHAKeee had gone crazy and I needed to boot him :D | 10:01 |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 10:02 | |
| sofar | ouch, udev fails to build in trunk:testing | 10:02 |
| sofar | oooo I think attr is really broken now | 10:05 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, something looks really bad in that regard | 10:06 |
| sofar | I think libattr.la is now moved or gone | 10:06 |
| sofar | or packages need to explicitly BuildRequires: libattr-devel | 10:07 |
| sofar | http://build.meego.com/package/view_file?file=attr-2.2.0-multilib.patch&package=attr&project=devel%3Abase&srcmd5=8f21caa8cb645d6440d7eaa6be8c9a1a | 10:07 |
| sofar | ha | 10:07 |
| sofar | anaZ: ^^ | 10:07 |
| *** maour_ has joined #meego | 10:08 | |
| sofar | I looked at the spec but it has a wildcard which doesn't make it clear that .la was removed from the installed file list | 10:09 |
| sofar | strange how it fails now | 10:09 |
| *** slaine has joined #meego | 10:10 | |
| sofar | Stskeeps: I mailed Anas, he'll look at it once he spots it as usual | 10:13 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 10:13 |
| sofar | the attr build log has some clues | 10:14 |
| sofar | libtool: install: warning: `../libattr/libattr.la' has not been installed in `/lib' | 10:14 |
| *** rcherian has joined #meego | 10:16 | |
| *** Richrd has quit IRC | 10:22 | |
| *** Richrd has joined #meego | 10:22 | |
| *** niala has joined #meego | 10:25 | |
| *** niala has quit IRC | 10:26 | |
| *** ysyrota has joined #meego | 10:26 | |
| iekku | morning | 10:31 |
| * sofar goes to bed | 10:34 | |
| *** tackat has joined #meego | 10:35 | |
| *** javiF has joined #meego | 10:42 | |
| *** mmc has quit IRC | 10:44 | |
| *** amarsman has joined #meego | 10:44 | |
| *** CosmoHill has joined #meego | 10:48 | |
| *** dwmw2 has quit IRC | 10:48 | |
| *** dwmw2 has joined #meego | 10:51 | |
| *** mauricelynch has joined #meego | 10:51 | |
| *** penghb has quit IRC | 10:52 | |
| zinit | mornings | 10:56 |
| *** maggie has quit IRC | 10:56 | |
| * slaine needs coffee | 10:56 | |
| zinit | whats the command in irssi to not show all the connect/disconnects | 10:57 |
| * CosmoHill appears with coffee | 10:57 | |
| zinit | forgot many of those custom commands since I havent used irc much for the last 5 years | 10:57 |
| iekku | zinit, that's bad | 10:58 |
| iekku | i haven't ever learned them, even i have used irc last hmmm 17 years :D | 10:58 |
| *** hena has joined #meego | 10:59 | |
| zinit | iekku: neeh, had a configuration script I used for many years, that one went lost in the last reinstall some 2 years ago... | 10:59 |
| andre__ | so if I see "submit a merge request with your patch" in Bugzilla - is that process documented somewhere? | 10:59 |
| *** chpadhi has quit IRC | 11:00 | |
| zinit | been using irc since the days of 14400 modems... but the last 5 years its been low on the priority list. been too much other things to deal with | 11:00 |
| zinit | I know there was some commands to change the settings so the connects/disconnects doesnt show in channels. | 11:01 |
| iekku | andre__, i haven't seen the documentation | 11:01 |
| *** CosmoHill has quit IRC | 11:01 | |
| iekku | andre__, have tried to find | 11:01 |
| andre__ | I wonder if non-corporate folks actually can do this. | 11:02 |
| * andre__ looks at the almighty and ever-knowing Stskeeps | 11:02 | |
| *** anab1s has joined #meego | 11:02 | |
| Stskeeps | andre__: sounds like a misconception. they mean a patch? | 11:03 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: or URL to gitorious | 11:03 |
| *** CosmoHill has joined #meego | 11:03 | |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18048#c4 | 11:03 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 18048 nor, Medium, ---, carl.wong, ASSI, Unable to multiple select at a time when add attachment in Email app | 11:03 |
| andre__ | I wonder if that's a "helpful" comment or not | 11:03 |
| andre__ | I would have "just" asked to add a patch to the bug report, so I wonder | 11:04 |
| *** zgyarmati has quit IRC | 11:04 | |
| *** buckle has quit IRC | 11:04 | |
| *** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle | 11:05 | |
| *** buckle has joined #meego | 11:05 | |
| *** Aparna has quit IRC | 11:06 | |
| zinit | now.. lets see how that goes... /ignore * joins hides all join and quit messages | 11:08 |
| zinit | (according to irssi.org.... | 11:08 |
| *** smoku has joined #meego | 11:14 | |
| tonberry_ | guys look at this | 11:15 |
| tonberry_ | http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/02/the-oh-sh_t-moment-that-nokia-decided-to-abandon-meego/ | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | already read it | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | please read the full article, there's many interesting pieces in there | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | and understand that due to confusion with Harmattan, MeeGo might not mean MeeGo.com | 11:15 |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 11:16 | |
| tonberry_ | what about it? | 11:16 |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 11:16 | |
| *** gbraad has quit IRC | 11:16 | |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 11:16 | |
| Stskeeps | http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_24/b4232056703101.htm , page 3 is interesting | 11:17 |
| tonberry_ | i am confuse with nokia direction | 11:19 |
| *** thiago_home has quit IRC | 11:20 | |
| *** Atarii has joined #meego | 11:20 | |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 11:20 | |
| lcuk | morning \o | 11:22 |
| *** jpetersen has joined #meego | 11:22 | |
| *** penghb has joined #meego | 11:24 | |
| CosmoHill | hey lcuk | 11:24 |
| *** kraiskil has joined #meego | 11:25 | |
| *** ced117 has joined #meego | 11:25 | |
| *** ced117 has joined #meego | 11:25 | |
| *** Aparna has joined #meego | 11:26 | |
| lcuk | hiya CosmoHill | 11:27 |
| *** techshaddy has quit IRC | 11:27 | |
| * lcuk downloads the sanity image today | 11:27 | |
| *** foolano has joined #meego | 11:27 | |
| lcuk | since the dailies are not produced and I have the acceptance image already | 11:28 |
| lcuk | I hope the touchscreen is responsive on this one | 11:28 |
| *** ptl has quit IRC | 11:28 | |
| *** Richrd_ has joined #meego | 11:28 | |
| *** jpetersen has quit IRC | 11:29 | |
| *** gbraad has joined #meego | 11:29 | |
| *** gbraad has joined #meego | 11:29 | |
| CosmoHill | your internet must be better than mine | 11:31 |
| *** Richrd has quit IRC | 11:31 | |
| frals | hm, wonder since when tampere got most meego ppl in nokia | 11:33 |
| *** penghb has quit IRC | 11:33 | |
| Stskeeps | frals: i think many hw people were sitting there | 11:33 |
| frals | ye... but i dont think they rival the number of ruoholahti | 11:34 |
| frals | *shrug* doesnt really matter anymore i guess :p | 11:34 |
| *** Richrd_ has quit IRC | 11:35 | |
| *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC | 11:36 | |
| *** Richrd_ has joined #meego | 11:36 | |
| *** penghb has joined #meego | 11:41 | |
| *** Kaz has joined #meego | 11:41 | |
| *** jpetersen has joined #meego | 11:43 | |
| lcuk | frals, \o | 11:46 |
| *** thiago_home has joined #meego | 11:47 | |
| *** penghb has quit IRC | 11:50 | |
| *** jrocha has quit IRC | 11:50 | |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, from what you know of the hardware, do you think WP7+ phones will be open for firmware updates (from a meego build down the line) | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: i'm happily involved with meego.com, i have no idea about hardware, products or for that matter, WP7 | 11:51 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, ok then let me rephrase - is it feasible to consider that as meego.com grows stronger that people could begin finding ways to unlock devices to flash the firmware onto it | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: with anything, linux kernels are always a problem | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | it is a losing game to get a product running after the fact | 11:52 |
| *** penghb has joined #meego | 11:54 | |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, so what game are you playing? | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: wrt n900 de? preparing to be ahead of the game | 11:55 |
| zinit | since nokia is one of the supporters of meego it would make sense that they would release a meego mobile too... | 11:55 |
| zinit | the n900 is getting old now.. time for a gen. 2 of that one? | 11:56 |
| lcuk | in what sense Stskeeps? | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | i broke my usb port, i wouldn't mind a product around now | 11:56 |
| alterego | I dunno, the N900 just keeps giving for me :) | 11:56 |
| * lcuk concurs with alterego | 11:56 | |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: in the sense that the work we do is usable everywhere else, as well as contributions to meego arm | 11:56 |
| alterego | Three years is a long time for a mobile to still be in the game .. | 11:57 |
| lcuk | alterego, Nokia 3210 is still in use in many peoples pockets | 11:57 |
| alterego | Really? That was a nice phone actually. | 11:57 |
| lcuk | alterego, same as people still use DOS or Windows 95 or any other product | 11:58 |
| alterego | It's going to be a hot day .. | 11:58 |
| zinit | DOS was at least stable:P | 11:58 |
| lcuk | people buy things because they have a need | 11:58 |
| Termana | It's no coincidence alterego said it will be a hot day just after lcuk said people still use DOS and Windows 95 | 11:58 |
| Termana | :p | 11:58 |
| lcuk | lol | 11:59 |
| *** ptl has joined #meego | 12:00 | |
| zinit | some people still use the nokia 1611... (my dad for one.. the antenna is great so its a good phone to use in the boat) | 12:00 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, I agree entirely about n900-de stuff, I am involved in the same initiative and see it improve and hope I am helping to advance it where practical | 12:00 |
| * lcuk uses his n900 for so many things | 12:00 | |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, you have no way to flash images onto n900? | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: uboot | 12:01 |
| lcuk | roger | 12:01 |
| *** anab1s has quit IRC | 12:02 | |
| Termana | Stskeeps, are you using an external charger/another N900 to charge your battery? | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | Termana: yeah, i have two n900s | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | i could technically use a n810 if i really wanted | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | http://thpmaemo.blogspot.com/2009/12/charging-bl-5j-n900-battery-in-n810.html | 12:03 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, speaking of n810, how did the meego build for it go? | 12:04 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: it's stalled somewhere, which annoys me a bit | 12:04 |
| alterego | Stskeeps: we should go for those MeeGo CA jobs @ Nokia :P | 12:04 |
| lcuk | I powered mine back up | 12:04 |
| Stskeeps | alterego: it is tempting, but i would want to make sure it's not harmattan ;) | 12:05 |
| lcuk | and for the 5 minutes before the touchscreen warmed up was highly amused at software on it :D | 12:05 |
| alterego | They said MeeGo right? :P | 12:05 |
| zinit | would be nice to be able to run meego on the iphone or then N8 | 12:05 |
| alterego | N8 is too underpowered | 12:06 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, any further version upgrades happened to the N810 kernel? | 12:06 |
| Stskeeps | Termana: i haven't seen any stuff | 12:06 |
| zinit | wonder if the SE X10 has the power.. | 12:06 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, you recall in liqbase I had a tagcloud which just sat there with default tags? well now it is all setup and group tagging of all 7000 sketches is in place :) | 12:06 |
| lcuk | wonderful to have a great big list from every discussion with people | 12:07 |
| Termana | Hmm, might to time to find it and have some fun! | 12:07 |
| zinit | the iphone and ipad does have the power... but I got a nasty feeling apple have been extreme at preventing any reinstall of them... | 12:07 |
| Termana | zinit, they are making some pretty good progress on loading linux onto the iPhone 4, and I believe they have it running on the iPad (1 I think, not iPad 2). | 12:08 |
| Termana | You would only have issues with the Handset UX (possibly) | 12:08 |
| *** TheXception is now known as TheXception|off | 12:08 | |
| Termana | (no 3D acceleration) | 12:08 |
| lcuk | alterego, N8 is not underpowered, the software is overheavy | 12:09 |
| lcuk | I heard from someone saying a qt based list/grid with a few pictures and labels felt sluggish when it had more than about 6 items in it | 12:09 |
| lcuk | <elpuri> if i take the delegate creation out of the equation (flickable + column + repeater), force text to vgimage caching, 6 items having 2-4 images + three labels (images really because of the caching) it's on the limit | 12:10 |
| lcuk | <elpuri> without the text caching it's horrible | 12:10 |
| lcuk | <elpuri> the periodic dropping of frames is of course because of the animation driver using a normal timer and fixed now | 12:10 |
| alterego | When he says fixed now, does he mean in QML Scene Graph? | 12:11 |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 12:11 | |
| lcuk | well that was where the questions came from | 12:11 |
| zinit | heard something about someone sticking some BSD on an ipad 2. and someone had been able to get gentoo on one. but havent seen it in action myself | 12:11 |
| lcuk | he hoped it would fix it | 12:11 |
| zinit | the ipad2 would be a great linux tablet | 12:11 |
| lcuk | alterego, he had to really try overly hard for somethign that should just work | 12:12 |
| zinit | does the amd m50 or whatever its called handle meego? | 12:12 |
| zinit | acer has the w500 tablet out.. comes with win7 home premiium for some reason.. | 12:12 |
| alterego | I don't think the iPad (2) would make a good Linux tablet at all. | 12:13 |
| alterego | I need USB! | 12:13 |
| alterego | And a card reader | 12:13 |
| alterego | At the _least_ | 12:13 |
| zinit | a friend told me he had no trouble with debian on the w500 | 12:13 |
| Termana | Besides that, technically you can run Linux on anything with a web browser! | 12:13 |
| Termana | bellard.org/jslinux | 12:13 |
| Termana | :p | 12:13 |
| zinit | card reader and usb for ipad2 is accessories | 12:13 |
| zinit | saw they had it at the apple store here in dublin. | 12:15 |
| *** Aparna has quit IRC | 12:15 | |
| Termana | zinit, just out of interest are you sure they specifically meant a BSD on the iPad 2 and not simply "BSD subsystem"? | 12:16 |
| *** Aparna has joined #meego | 12:16 | |
| *** calvaris has joined #meego | 12:17 | |
| zinit | dont know how they did it. heard from someone I know that they had installed BSD on an ipad2 at a workshop they had at a linux user group in norway | 12:18 |
| zinit | never seen it in action myself | 12:18 |
| *** eti has joined #meego | 12:19 | |
| zinit | still, I got a feeling that voids the warranty:P | 12:19 |
| zinit | wouldnt mind having meego on my iphone though... getting kinda fed up with apple's insanity... | 12:20 |
| *** ljp has quit IRC | 12:21 | |
| *** ced117 has quit IRC | 12:22 | |
| *** ljp has joined #meego | 12:23 | |
| *** maligor has quit IRC | 12:23 | |
| zinit | dont know if the iphone 3gs got the power to run it though.. | 12:24 |
| *** eti has quit IRC | 12:24 | |
| slaine | Anyone looked inside the MeeGoConf Dublin Lenovo ? | 12:25 |
| *** eti has joined #meego | 12:25 | |
| zinit | yes | 12:25 |
| zinit | stuck 2 gigs ram into mine | 12:25 |
| arfoll | slaine, yes removed the hdd | 12:26 |
| slaine | I was looking this morning to see what type of RAM to get, as crucial listed 2 different types for that hardware, and I noticed an expansion slot | 12:26 |
| zinit | took it apart while I was at it:P | 12:26 |
| zinit | the ddr2 | 12:26 |
| arfoll | yeah there is a mini PCI-E expansion slot, unfortunately the bios won't let you put what you want in there | 12:27 |
| *** niala has joined #meego | 12:27 | |
| zinit | most cards work.. tried the 3G card I have in the other netbook and that one worked fine, so did the atheros wifi card I tried | 12:28 |
| zinit | the 3g card was an ericsson | 12:28 |
| arfoll | you had more luck than me then, both atheros cards i tried caused the thing to refuse to boot | 12:29 |
| zinit | updated the bios before doing that | 12:29 |
| *** arvind_khadri has joined #meego | 12:29 | |
| slaine | arfoll: shit, was thinking of getting an SSD for that | 12:29 |
| zinit | some compatability issues was solved in the latest bios that is on the lenovo website | 12:30 |
| arfoll | slaine, just shove an SSD instead of the HDD. | 12:30 |
| slaine | Yeah, that was the original plan | 12:30 |
| arfoll | zinit, how do you flash the bios once you don't have meego? | 12:30 |
| zinit | ssd works. the one from my acer I just plugged in | 12:30 |
| slaine | it's crawling to a halt and this is my main dev machine | 12:30 |
| slaine | sad but true | 12:30 |
| arfoll | tbh i had an X25-M in it, but it seemed like a waste so i put a raid0 on my workstation :-) | 12:31 |
| zinit | installed win7 ultimate to dualboot with meego | 12:31 |
| arfoll | thought of installing windows makes me cringe | 12:31 |
| zinit | wow works rather badly in meego | 12:31 |
| zinit | :P | 12:31 |
| zinit | in win7 wow, sc2 and eve online worked quite nicly | 12:32 |
| *** Vudentz` has joined #meego | 12:34 | |
| zinit | and tethering with my phone didnt work in meego using the cable. with BT it worked fine. unfortunatly the iphone gets insanly hot when going through BT and eats the battery | 12:35 |
| *** raster has quit IRC | 12:35 | |
| *** trupheenix has joined #meego | 12:36 | |
| *** Vudentz` has quit IRC | 12:37 | |
| *** mmeeks has quit IRC | 12:38 | |
| zinit | need to use windows for work stuff, (company policy aparently. and the AD authentication makes linux go bonkers:) | 12:38 |
| *** tackat has quit IRC | 12:38 | |
| *** jrocha has joined #meego | 12:41 | |
| dwmw2 | zinit: define 'bonkers' | 12:41 |
| dwmw2 | preferably just in terms of bug numbers | 12:41 |
| dwmw2 | but prose will suffice | 12:41 |
| zinit | bonkers = nuts, crazy, crash | 12:41 |
| *** Vudentz has quit IRC | 12:42 | |
| *** trupheenix has quit IRC | 12:42 | |
| zinit | also used for insanity in referral to people going mad | 12:43 |
| *** Vudentz has joined #meego | 12:43 | |
| dwmw2 | hm, 284 messages on my mail queue to nokia.com, and no response from postmaster@nokia.com | 12:43 |
| zinit | (irish and uk expression mainly I think | 12:43 |
| dwmw2 | has nokia already imploded? | 12:43 |
| *** raster has joined #meego | 12:43 | |
| *** raster has joined #meego | 12:43 | |
| *** jpe has joined #meego | 12:43 | |
| dwmw2 | zinit: I know what 'bonkers' means. It's also a completely uninformative description of a problem | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | dwmw2: nah, it just uses exchange ;) | 12:43 |
| slaine | So, will order 2Gb (thats the max I assume) and an SSD, probably 100gb | 12:44 |
| zinit | exacly | 12:44 |
| slaine | Thought that's probably way too much | 12:44 |
| dwmw2 | 2,000,000,000 bits? | 12:44 |
| dwmw2 | 250,000,000 bytes? | 12:44 |
| *** datagutt has joined #meego | 12:44 | |
| dwmw2 | or about 238.4 MiB ? | 12:44 |
| dwmw2 | that's a strange number. Why that number? | 12:45 |
| zinit | fun when linux decides to suddenly log you out because the exchange server decides to ask for your username and password... or kernel panic when you try to authenticate to the oracle system using ietab (doesnt work in other browsers than IE6) | 12:46 |
| * slaine wonders who dwmw2 is talking to | 12:46 | |
| zinit | weird system... | 12:46 |
| dwmw2 | slaine: you. You said you'd order 2Gb (which is 238.418 MiB) | 12:47 |
| slaine | Oh, caps nazi, sorry | 12:47 |
| slaine | 2GB and 100GB, happy ? | 12:47 |
| zinit | the machine can take 1 2GB dimm. | 12:47 |
| dwmw2 | I've never seen a machine that can take a 2GB DIMM | 12:47 |
| dwmw2 | they usually like them to be powers of two | 12:47 |
| dwmw2 | 2GiB I've seen | 12:47 |
| zinit | the machine has 1 socket | 12:48 |
| slaine | Its got a 1GB in it according to the sticker | 12:48 |
| zinit | 512 soldered on the mobo and 512 in a socket | 12:48 |
| *** Vudentz has quit IRC | 12:48 | |
| zinit | when you stick in a 2 gig in the socket it disables the 512 onboard | 12:48 |
| *** Richrd_ has quit IRC | 12:48 | |
| slaine | Bastards, you mine I (didn't) pay for ram that I can't use ? | 12:49 |
| *** Vudentz has joined #meego | 12:49 | |
| slaine | mean | 12:49 |
| slaine | gah, need coffee, dyslexia overdrive | 12:49 |
| zinit | you can have 512MB, 1, 1.5 or 2 gigs in it | 12:50 |
| *** tackat has joined #meego | 12:50 | |
| zinit | dont know if the chipset supports more than 2 gigs memory. never seen netbooks with more than 2 gigs memory | 12:50 |
| zinit | (not atom ones at least) | 12:50 |
| slaine | 4 would nice, but 2 will be twice as good as 1 | 12:50 |
| zinit | yepp | 12:50 |
| *** Vudentz has quit IRC | 12:51 | |
| slaine | (was using 950MB or 1GB swap last night, ugh) | 12:51 |
| slaine | s/or/of/ | 12:51 |
| infobot | slaine meant: (was using 950MB of 1GB swap last night, ugh) | 12:51 |
| *** kW_ has joined #meego | 12:51 | |
| *** jpetersen has quit IRC | 12:52 | |
| *** frade has quit IRC | 12:52 | |
| *** NIN101 has joined #meego | 12:53 | |
| *** Vudentz has joined #meego | 12:53 | |
| *** Vudentz has quit IRC | 12:54 | |
| *** ced117 has joined #meego | 12:55 | |
| *** kraiskil has quit IRC | 12:55 | |
| *** Vudentz has joined #meego | 12:56 | |
| *** aloril has quit IRC | 12:57 | |
| *** Vudentz has quit IRC | 12:58 | |
| *** VITAS has joined #meego | 12:58 | |
| *** VITAS- has quit IRC | 13:00 | |
| *** Vudentz has joined #meego | 13:01 | |
| *** clbr has joined #meego | 13:01 | |
| *** jpetersen has joined #meego | 13:03 | |
| *** yanshuang has quit IRC | 13:05 | |
| *** lardman|gone is now known as lardman | 13:06 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #meego | 13:08 | |
| *** Venemo has joined #meego | 13:08 | |
| *** lbt_hel has joined #meego | 13:09 | |
| *** aloril has joined #meego | 13:11 | |
| *** lbt_hel has quit IRC | 13:15 | |
| *** lbt_hel has joined #meego | 13:15 | |
| *** datagutt_ has joined #meego | 13:15 | |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 13:16 | |
| *** niala has left #meego | 13:17 | |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 13:17 | |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 13:17 | |
| *** datagutt has quit IRC | 13:19 | |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 13:21 | |
| *** Aranel has joined #meego | 13:21 | |
| *** Aranel has joined #meego | 13:21 | |
| *** Saviq_afk is now known as Saviq | 13:25 | |
| *** lbt_hel has quit IRC | 13:28 | |
| *** aleksander_m has quit IRC | 13:29 | |
| *** lbt_hel has joined #meego | 13:29 | |
| *** arfoll has quit IRC | 13:32 | |
| *** datagutt_ is now known as datagutt | 13:33 | |
| *** Dan_Mihai_BU_RO has joined #meego | 13:33 | |
| *** Aranel has quit IRC | 13:35 | |
| *** lbt_hel has quit IRC | 13:36 | |
| *** lbt_hel has joined #meego | 13:36 | |
| *** thiagoss has joined #meego | 13:36 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 13:37 | |
| *** romen has quit IRC | 13:37 | |
| *** I-C-Wiener has joined #meego | 13:38 | |
| *** Wolli has quit IRC | 13:38 | |
| *** lizardo has joined #meego | 13:40 | |
| *** Guest96541 has joined #meego | 13:41 | |
| *** lbt_hel has quit IRC | 13:42 | |
| *** tackat has quit IRC | 13:44 | |
| tonberry_ | gtg, cya all | 13:47 |
| *** VITAS- has joined #meego | 13:47 | |
| *** tonberry_ has quit IRC | 13:47 | |
| *** VITAS has quit IRC | 13:48 | |
| *** Dan_Mihai_BU_RO has quit IRC | 13:49 | |
| dwmw2 | anyone here from nokia? | 13:51 |
| Stskeeps | might be some, but i think it's a finnish holiday today | 13:52 |
| dwmw2 | ah, thanks | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a finnish holiday for lots at nokia recently. :/ | 13:53 |
| alterego | dwmw2: any reason in particular you need a Nokian? | 13:53 |
| dwmw2 | alterego: yes, I have 284 messages in my mail queue for nokia.com and there seems to be a problem with the mail server. | 13:53 |
| dwmw2 | and my mail to postmaster@nokia.com has not been answered | 13:53 |
| alterego | Oh, hah | 13:53 |
| dwmw2 | although if it's a holiday, that might explain it | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | out of curiousity, do you run a mailing list or something? | 13:53 |
| *** maour_ has quit IRC | 13:53 | |
| dwmw2 | I was on the verge of just kicking all nokians off the linux-mtd and linux-arm-kernel and other lists that are affected | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 13:54 |
| dwmw2 | but I'll give them another day... | 13:54 |
| alterego | When did this start? | 13:54 |
| dwmw2 | not entirely sure | 13:54 |
| *** raster has quit IRC | 13:54 | |
| Stskeeps | how does it refuse them anyway? | 13:54 |
| dwmw2 | SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data: | 13:55 |
| dwmw2 | host mx2.nokia.com [147.243.177.58]: 451 4.3.2 Please try again late | 13:55 |
| dwmw2 | Which *could* have been greylisting, at least until the first 24 hours had elapsed :) | 13:55 |
| dwmw2 | but this host is in dnswl.org *and* it's been observed to queue mail and retry sending it later | 13:56 |
| dwmw2 | so it would have to be a *really* broken greylisting implementation to still be delaying *any* messages from it | 13:56 |
| dwmw2 | oldest message I have on the queue is 4 days, I think | 13:56 |
| dwmw2 | but it doesn't get held for much longer than that before the mailer just bounces it back to mailman as undeliverable. | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 13:58 |
| dwmw2 | I hadn't been paying much attention to the mail queues before | 13:58 |
| *** achipa has quit IRC | 13:58 | |
| *** Guest96541 has quit IRC | 13:59 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #meego | 14:00 | |
| *** achipa has joined #meego | 14:00 | |
| *** achipa has joined #meego | 14:00 | |
| *** Wolli has joined #meego | 14:01 | |
| *** sepultina has joined #meego | 14:02 | |
| *** anab1s has joined #meego | 14:07 | |
| *** aloril has quit IRC | 14:09 | |
| *** jophish has quit IRC | 14:12 | |
| * CosmoHill has hayfever AND a cold :( | 14:15 | |
| *** the-light has quit IRC | 14:15 | |
| slaine | CosmoHill: snap | 14:17 |
| CosmoHill | on the plus side I have high grades :) | 14:18 |
| slaine | congrats | 14:19 |
| *** pohly has joined #meego | 14:19 | |
| lcuk | nice one CosmoHill \o/ | 14:19 |
| *** techshaddy has joined #meego | 14:21 | |
| *** aloril has joined #meego | 14:22 | |
| *** techshaddy has quit IRC | 14:22 | |
| *** techshaddy has joined #meego | 14:23 | |
| *** eti has quit IRC | 14:24 | |
| *** chris-qBT has quit IRC | 14:26 | |
| *** clbr has quit IRC | 14:29 | |
| *** aloril has quit IRC | 14:30 | |
| *** juliank has joined #meego | 14:31 | |
| *** juliank has joined #meego | 14:31 | |
| *** P50ODG has joined #meego | 14:33 | |
| *** P50ODG is now known as l | 14:34 | |
| *** l is now known as lbt_hel | 14:34 | |
| *** lbt_hel has joined #meego | 14:35 | |
| *** anab1s has quit IRC | 14:37 | |
| *** berndhs has joined #meego | 14:37 | |
| * CosmoHill looks at lbt_hel then his host name | 14:37 | |
| *** anab1s has joined #meego | 14:37 | |
| *** aloril has joined #meego | 14:43 | |
| *** clbr has joined #meego | 14:44 | |
| *** lbt_ has joined #meego | 14:45 | |
| *** lbt_hel has quit IRC | 14:46 | |
| *** clbr has quit IRC | 14:47 | |
| *** smogzer has joined #meego | 14:49 | |
| *** maligor has joined #meego | 14:49 | |
| *** sheepbat has joined #meego | 14:50 | |
| *** pramodxyle has quit IRC | 14:50 | |
| *** thiago_home has quit IRC | 14:59 | |
| *** thiago_home has joined #meego | 14:59 | |
| *** luck has joined #meego | 15:00 | |
| *** makulkar has quit IRC | 15:05 | |
| *** mwichmann has joined #meego | 15:08 | |
| *** mitsutaka has quit IRC | 15:12 | |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 15:13 | |
| *** Venemo has joined #meego | 15:13 | |
| *** mmeeks has joined #meego | 15:15 | |
| *** mmeeks has joined #meego | 15:15 | |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 15:18 | |
| *** pohly1 has joined #meego | 15:19 | |
| *** pohly has quit IRC | 15:19 | |
| *** Aparna has quit IRC | 15:20 | |
| *** arfoll has joined #meego | 15:23 | |
| *** the-light has joined #meego | 15:27 | |
| *** briglia has joined #meego | 15:27 | |
| *** tomeu has quit IRC | 15:27 | |
| *** TSCHAKeee has quit IRC | 15:27 | |
| *** TSCHAKeee has joined #meego | 15:28 | |
| *** Aparna has joined #meego | 15:30 | |
| *** isolor has joined #meego | 15:30 | |
| *** Stefan80 has quit IRC | 15:30 | |
| *** Stefan80 has joined #meego | 15:32 | |
| *** billmania has joined #meego | 15:33 | |
| *** dspeed has joined #meego | 15:37 | |
| *** thiago_home has quit IRC | 15:40 | |
| *** thiago_home has joined #meego | 15:40 | |
| *** pmcgowan has joined #meego | 15:47 | |
| *** balor has joined #meego | 15:48 | |
| *** t_s_o has joined #meego | 15:49 | |
| *** acydlord has joined #meego | 15:51 | |
| *** pohly1 has quit IRC | 15:51 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #meego | 15:52 | |
| *** zutesmog has joined #meego | 15:52 | |
| *** acydlord has quit IRC | 15:56 | |
| *** foolano has quit IRC | 15:58 | |
| *** setanta has joined #meego | 15:59 | |
| *** thiago_home has quit IRC | 16:00 | |
| *** thiago_home has joined #meego | 16:00 | |
| *** datagutt has quit IRC | 16:04 | |
| *** MoRpHeUz has joined #meego | 16:04 | |
| *** MoRpHeUz has joined #meego | 16:04 | |
| *** foolano has joined #meego | 16:04 | |
| *** datagutt has joined #meego | 16:05 | |
| *** datagutt has joined #meego | 16:05 | |
| *** datagutt has quit IRC | 16:06 | |
| *** DLange has quit IRC | 16:09 | |
| *** balor has quit IRC | 16:10 | |
| *** balor has joined #meego | 16:10 | |
| *** DLange has joined #meego | 16:13 | |
| *** kidproquo has joined #meego | 16:20 | |
| *** himamura has joined #meego | 16:21 | |
| *** jpetersen has quit IRC | 16:21 | |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|gone | 16:21 | |
| *** chris-qBT has joined #meego | 16:23 | |
| *** jophish has joined #meego | 16:27 | |
| *** jophish_ has joined #meego | 16:29 | |
| *** abhijeet has joined #meego | 16:29 | |
| *** jophish_ has quit IRC | 16:30 | |
| *** aleksander_m has joined #meego | 16:30 | |
| *** jophish_ has joined #meego | 16:30 | |
| *** dchaverri26 has joined #meego | 16:31 | |
| *** jophish has quit IRC | 16:32 | |
| *** hugopl has joined #meego | 16:34 | |
| *** toabctl has joined #meego | 16:35 | |
| *** sepultina_ has joined #meego | 16:36 | |
| *** sepultina has quit IRC | 16:37 | |
| *** jd has joined #meego | 16:37 | |
| *** jd has joined #meego | 16:37 | |
| *** arfoll has quit IRC | 16:38 | |
| *** Jade has quit IRC | 16:38 | |
| *** peisanen has joined #meego | 16:42 | |
| *** mpoirier has joined #meego | 16:42 | |
| *** peisanen has left #meego | 16:42 | |
| *** eti has joined #meego | 16:43 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC | 16:47 | |
| *** fiferboy has joined #meego | 16:48 | |
| *** raster has joined #meego | 16:48 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer has joined #meego | 16:48 | |
| *** Umeaboy has joined #meego | 16:49 | |
| *** jpetersen has joined #meego | 16:52 | |
| *** Diod has joined #meego | 16:54 | |
| *** Richrd has joined #meego | 16:59 | |
| *** Richrd_ has joined #meego | 17:02 | |
| *** pcacjr has joined #meego | 17:02 | |
| *** marciom has joined #meego | 17:03 | |
| *** luck has quit IRC | 17:04 | |
| *** Richrd has quit IRC | 17:05 | |
| *** puffin has joined #meego | 17:05 | |
| *** billyjam has quit IRC | 17:05 | |
| *** Venemo has joined #meego | 17:06 | |
| * slaine gets the feeling MS have been using the Lenovo Ideapad S10-3t's for Windows 8 development | 17:07 | |
| Stskeeps | oh? | 17:07 |
| *** DawnFoster has quit IRC | 17:08 | |
| *** Andy80 has joined #meego | 17:11 | |
| *** Andy80 has quit IRC | 17:11 | |
| *** Andy80 has joined #meego | 17:11 | |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 17:11 | |
| *** Venemo has joined #meego | 17:11 | |
| Venemo | slaine, in that case, this model has been clearly a success for Lenovo | 17:11 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: the new UX they're showcasing seems ideal for machines which are both a desktop/laptop and have a touchscreen. Cause clearly it's not one thing or the other ;) | 17:13 |
| slaine | Venemo: other than the trackpad, I'm happy with it | 17:13 |
| *** sergiusens has quit IRC | 17:14 | |
| *** Savago has joined #meego | 17:15 | |
| maligor | googling that got me a "Evolutionary adaptation of desktop virtualization" slide, looks like Windows 9 will have to virtualize the hardware itself or there'll be no progress ;P | 17:15 |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 17:16 | |
| *** Aparna has quit IRC | 17:16 | |
| *** luck has joined #meego | 17:19 | |
| *** qgil has joined #meego | 17:20 | |
| CosmoHill | slaine: I can imagine someone poking one of them touch screen Dells to hard and the screen flipping over | 17:21 |
| *** hadess_ has joined #meego | 17:21 | |
| slaine | lol | 17:21 |
| CosmoHill | it's one way to fail battle ships | 17:21 |
| *** hadess_ is now known as hadess | 17:21 | |
| hadess | hey, anyone here who would be working on sensorfw? | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | -> Ronksu, but i think the finns are on holiday today | 17:22 |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 17:22 | |
| *** reed has joined #meego | 17:23 | |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 17:23 | |
| hadess | Stskeeps, thanks, will try again tmw i guess | 17:23 |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 17:23 | |
| *** Richrd__ has joined #meego | 17:24 | |
| *** Aparna has joined #meego | 17:24 | |
| *** Richrd_ has quit IRC | 17:25 | |
| *** Ans5i has quit IRC | 17:26 | |
| * SpeedEvil ponders the need for Meego UI to be 'next generation', and clearly better. | 17:26 | |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQO-aOdJLiw - perhaps this guy might have some input? | 17:26 |
| * Stskeeps still sort-of believes in no-UX, just like a home isn't only IKEA furniture. | 17:26 | |
| *** th00ry has quit IRC | 17:27 | |
| Stskeeps | and wtf | 17:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:27 |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 17:27 | |
| * gabrbedd still sort-of believes that rank-and-file-end-users do not want a totally new UI for every device. | 17:28 | |
| maligor | matrix printer for output... I wonder how small they could make those... matrix printer mobile phone | 17:29 |
| gabrbedd | SpeedEvil: it's the new ewe! | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, take star trek or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cf7IL_eZ38 (a day made of glass) | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | there's no coherent ux theme | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | it's just functional to the task | 17:29 |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 17:30 | |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: OK, I follow you now. | 17:31 |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 17:31 | |
| berndhs | theming is often abused for branding, from a functional point of view | 17:31 |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 17:31 | |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: But in the mean time we're dealing with a lot of multi-functional devices -- and I think that implies a UX. | 17:31 |
| SpeedEvil | For single function - yes - no UX is probably reasonable. | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | standard methods of interaction, maybe | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | task-oriented, activity-oriented.. or something | 17:32 |
| *** boiko has joined #meego | 17:32 | |
| SpeedEvil | But for anything with more than one mode, or with a browser, or other 'standard' stuff - you need to learn lots of annoying special cases that the designer thought looked pretty. | 17:32 |
| berndhs | right, easily remembered/discovered ways of operating things | 17:33 |
| berndhs | but not every app looking the same | 17:33 |
| *** rcherian has quit IRC | 17:33 | |
| *** foolano has quit IRC | 17:33 | |
| *** fredy has joined #meego | 17:33 | |
| *** x_O has quit IRC | 17:34 | |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: Also - world of ass seems to omit the fact that glass can't magically display content. | 17:34 |
| SpeedEvil | glass | 17:34 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: BTW, did you see arfoll's talk about "creating audio continuums? | 17:35 |
| *** willer_ has joined #meego | 17:35 | |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: reminds me of when you were talking about "cyber foraging." | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: no, but i intend to | 17:35 |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 17:35 | |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: transparent displays are actually fairly far along | 17:36 |
| berndhs | displays should all be holographic, no more screens | 17:36 |
| *** CosmoHill has quit IRC | 17:36 | |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5sFFMahZyQ | 17:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: Sure. I know. | 17:37 |
| SpeedEvil | And those are rather more translucent at best. | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | It's hidden by the fact that the back is illuminated. | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | At best you typically get around 10% light through. | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | And it's rather blurry. | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | and tv used to be black and white, too | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 17:39 |
| berndhs | Stskeeps: and blurry | 17:39 |
| SpeedEvil | There are good reasons - diffraction - why it's blurry. | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Getting transparent colour displays that don't diffract is going to be tricky. | 17:40 |
| berndhs | right, so not in time for 1.3 | 17:41 |
| gabrbedd | berndhs: lol! | 17:41 |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 17:42 | |
| *** foolano has joined #meego | 17:43 | |
| berndhs | the Corning stuff has good ideas for a lot of applications though | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Umm... | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle, in an ideal futuire, where display technology is nearly free. | 17:44 |
| berndhs | nah you're looking at the details of their presentation | 17:44 |
| berndhs | not the concept | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | heh, i recall when LCDs were extremely expensive | 17:44 |
| *** balor has quit IRC | 17:44 | |
| *** lbt_ has quit IRC | 17:45 | |
| berndhs | the concept I'm thinking of is controlling every day stuff, like the cooking interface | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | berndhs: Hehe. | 17:45 |
| berndhs | that doesnt need much presentation its just a control thing | 17:45 |
| *** balor has joined #meego | 17:45 | |
| * SpeedEvil keeps meaning to reterofit his old microwave with a linux controller. | 17:45 | |
| SpeedEvil | combi microwave. | 17:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Tehre is so much cool stuff you can do. | 17:46 |
| *** sepultina has joined #meego | 17:46 | |
| * gabrbedd still prefers the old, mechanical, lasts-forever appliance controls instead of the new-fangled, fragile, and expensive-to-replace "digital" controls. | 17:46 | |
| SpeedEvil | For example - save energy. Cover a dish - heat it at 100% power till the humidity in the output exceeds 90% - then servo the power to keep it at 40% | 17:46 |
| SpeedEvil | SAve energy, no risk of burning. | 17:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Similarly with cooking surfaces - I want a mode that will never ever let the pan surface exceed 180C. | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: i kinda liked a concept i saw at one point, analog controls on top of digital surfaces | 17:47 |
| *** sepultina_ has quit IRC | 17:47 | |
| SpeedEvil | And ideally sense this on a pan-by-pan basis. | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | So it might have a hard limit and never even if the user chooses to - allow PTFE pans to exceed 200C | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | (unless the user confirms) | 17:47 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: Yeah, that's nice... but I was really talking about how the PCB's in your dishwasher don't last. And when they break it totals the dishwasher. | 17:48 |
| *** foolano has quit IRC | 17:48 | |
| *** Aparna has quit IRC | 17:48 | |
| gabrbedd | OTOH, the ones with mechanical controls (switches, cames, etc) last nearly forever. | 17:48 |
| SpeedEvil | gabrbedd: I've been going on a bout the fact that it would be lovely if there was a mandated standard ECU for cars, for ages. | 17:48 |
| gabrbedd | ...so it's when a motor or pump goes out that the dishwasher it totalled. | 17:48 |
| SpeedEvil | gabrbedd: 99% of cars engines can be completely dealt with with a commodity ECU. | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | They're not doing anything particularly clever. | 17:49 |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 17:49 | |
| gabrbedd | SpeedEvil: True. | 17:49 |
| *** jophish_ has quit IRC | 17:50 | |
| SpeedEvil | gabrbedd: I've got a car with a broken ECU - that would cost more than its value to get the dealer to replace the ECU. | 17:50 |
| SpeedEvil | I need to solder up the megasquirt... | 17:50 |
| berndhs | i had a 1966 Mustang with ECU | 17:52 |
| berndhs | electronics never failed in that one :) | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | But in that case, you can probably repair it with 2n3055s. | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | A modern ECU has firmware, and complex unpublished interactions with the car. | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | So you can't debug any more than the most basic failures. | 17:54 |
| *** mitsutaka has joined #meego | 17:54 | |
| berndhs | the 66 ECU was blowing air onto the exhaust valves, reduce unburned hydrocarbons | 17:54 |
| *** mwichmann has quit IRC | 17:55 | |
| *** sergiusens has joined #meego | 17:57 | |
| *** DeuX has quit IRC | 18:00 | |
| *** andyross has joined #meego | 18:00 | |
| *** DawnFoster has joined #meego | 18:01 | |
| *** boiko has quit IRC | 18:03 | |
| *** Evanescence has quit IRC | 18:04 | |
| *** techshaddy has quit IRC | 18:04 | |
| *** baraujo has joined #meego | 18:07 | |
| *** reed has quit IRC | 18:10 | |
| *** paulliu has quit IRC | 18:10 | |
| *** marciom has quit IRC | 18:12 | |
| *** RST38h has quit IRC | 18:13 | |
| *** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake | 18:14 | |
| *** sergiusens has left #meego | 18:14 | |
| *** gaveen has joined #meego | 18:16 | |
| *** jd has quit IRC | 18:17 | |
| *** Jade has joined #meego | 18:17 | |
| *** puffin has quit IRC | 18:18 | |
| *** puffin has joined #meego | 18:18 | |
| *** Termana has quit IRC | 18:24 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #meego | 18:25 | |
| *** raster has quit IRC | 18:27 | |
| *** Aparna has joined #meego | 18:29 | |
| *** puffin has quit IRC | 18:29 | |
| *** puffin has joined #meego | 18:31 | |
| *** sepultina_ has joined #meego | 18:31 | |
| berndhs | what's the twitter thread, there may be a rumor, but maybe not ? | 18:31 |
| *** sepultina has quit IRC | 18:31 | |
| w00t | rumour has it that there may be a rumour that may not be true so there is just a rumour that there's a rumour so as not to disappoint folks when the rumoured rumour turns out to be just that: a rumour | 18:32 |
| berndhs | ah | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | .. what rumour | 18:32 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: it's just a rumour that there is a rumour :-) | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | like the rumour there's a new handset ux, got it.. | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:33 |
| berndhs | that and the fear of cucumbers, things are just not the same | 18:33 |
| w00t | https://twitter.com/#!/MeeGoExperts/status/76302371591950337 follow that thread back if you like | 18:33 |
| w00t | not much there though, honestly | 18:33 |
| *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC | 18:34 | |
| gabrbedd | Mostly just poking ash for being a tease. | 18:36 |
| *** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC | 18:37 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer has joined #meego | 18:38 | |
| *** pixelgeek has joined #meego | 18:46 | |
| *** talmage has joined #meego | 18:46 | |
| *** billyjam has joined #meego | 18:49 | |
| *** puffin_ has joined #meego | 18:53 | |
| *** puffin has quit IRC | 18:53 | |
| *** Dr_Who has left #meego | 18:54 | |
| *** the-light has quit IRC | 18:58 | |
| *** Flanbix has quit IRC | 18:58 | |
| tripzero | w00t, i heard a rumor about your rumor of a rumor | 18:59 |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #meego | 18:59 | |
| w00t | the rumour is a lie! | 18:59 |
| *** pixelgeek1 has joined #meego | 19:00 | |
| *** pixelgeek has quit IRC | 19:01 | |
| *** ColKilkenny has quit IRC | 19:01 | |
| *** reed has joined #meego | 19:02 | |
| *** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle | 19:03 | |
| *** sidd has joined #meego | 19:04 | |
| *** gaveen has quit IRC | 19:07 | |
| *** snowpong has quit IRC | 19:07 | |
| *** mauricelynch has quit IRC | 19:08 | |
| *** billyjam has quit IRC | 19:11 | |
| *** akk has joined #meego | 19:11 | |
| *** kraiskil has joined #meego | 19:13 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 19:14 | |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 19:14 | |
| *** jkukunas has joined #meego | 19:15 | |
| *** sepultina has joined #meego | 19:15 | |
| *** sepultina_ has quit IRC | 19:15 | |
| *** boiko has joined #meego | 19:17 | |
| slaine | DawnFoster: nice video | 19:19 |
| slaine | I recognize a few faces from the Dublin conference but don't know names | 19:19 |
| *** gaveen has joined #meego | 19:19 | |
| *** NIN101 has quit IRC | 19:19 | |
| slaine | apart from nearyd | 19:19 |
| *** Moku has quit IRC | 19:20 | |
| *** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake | 19:20 | |
| *** Moku has joined #meego | 19:20 | |
| DawnFoster | slaine: thanks! they did a great job on it | 19:20 |
| DawnFoster | my only role was arm twisting people to get them in front of the camera :) | 19:21 |
| slaine | a nice little cameo spot too | 19:21 |
| *** Jaffa has quit IRC | 19:21 | |
| *** Flanbix has joined #meego | 19:21 | |
| *** Jaffa has joined #meego | 19:22 | |
| *** sidd has quit IRC | 19:22 | |
| DawnFoster | I was trying to get something other than European white dudes :) | 19:22 |
| slaine | Nod, white middle-class nerds, the scourge of our industry. | 19:24 |
| *** NIN101 has joined #meego | 19:24 | |
| *** Ans5i has joined #meego | 19:24 | |
| slaine | That was sarcasm btw, just of the record ;) | 19:25 |
| vgrade | oh, http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/06/nook-color-hacked-meego/ | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | that was quick, really :P | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder if it's softfp though | 19:26 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: I'm guessing yes | 19:26 |
| *** lynxis has joined #meego | 19:27 | |
| slaine | looks to be accelerated and I understood from the conversation yesterday that the gles acceleration blobs are softfp only ? | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. stupid situation really | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | especially since for once, it seems everybody in the ARM world agree on a baseline | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | which is interestingily enough, hardfp | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | they're even proposing LSB ARM | 19:27 |
| slaine | Are we excluded or have Linaro just not got them blobs ready yet ? | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | 'not ready yet' | 19:28 |
| slaine | cooking though ? | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | it's honestly just a matter of building it with a hardfp toolchain | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | which makes the whole situation ridicolous :) | 19:28 |
| slaine | wonder whats taking them so long so | 19:28 |
| slaine | I assume you've contacted TI and asked ? | 19:29 |
| DawnFoster | has anyone used quotefix for outlook http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/outlook-quotefix/ | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | i haven't personally, but if a customer asked them.. | 19:29 |
| DawnFoster | trying to work with people on corp email to be better ml posters | 19:29 |
| slaine | Could Nokia ask ? | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: +1 | 19:29 |
| DawnFoster | I know some people are using it - curious if I should recommend it | 19:29 |
| DawnFoster | (don't use outlook, so can't test myself) | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: we have sgx ddk so that's not a good conversation starter | 19:30 |
| slaine | I don't know what that means | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | it means we have the sources to build | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | for our specific device | 19:30 |
| slaine | but no license to build them for meego ? | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | we build them for n900 but they're not much useful outside omap34xx | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | as it's tied to the h | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | w | 19:31 |
| Bostik | way cool, steelrat in the news :) | 19:31 |
| *** sepultina_ has joined #meego | 19:31 | |
| slaine | So does the n900-de image have hardfp sgx blobs ? | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | right | 19:32 |
| *** sepultina has quit IRC | 19:32 | |
| slaine | cool | 19:32 |
| vgrade | for n900 :) | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | vgrade: it would work on other omap34xx too, it was just xorg stopping people at some point.. | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | er, omap3 | 19:33 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders about omap5 | 19:33 | |
| SpeedEvil | err 4 | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | omap4 is more difficult | 19:33 |
| * Stskeeps tries to make an image for his joggler | 19:33 | |
| vgrade | Stskeeps, I'm working with anab1s at the moment on the nokia netbook (gma500) we have a recent (0502) ivi image so far. Just building for netbook atm | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 19:35 |
| *** argretzi has joined #meego | 19:35 | |
| *** marciom has joined #meego | 19:35 | |
| vgrade | Stskeeps, IVI worked right from the ivi ks. EMGD and all | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 19:36 |
| *** boiko has quit IRC | 19:36 | |
| Stskeeps | i just hope i can get to some kind of development environment for futuristic stuff :P | 19:36 |
| wmarone_ | heh, so apparently Novomok fully ported MeeGo to the Nook Color | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | wmarone_: yeah, i'll have to poke them for describing their experiences | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | hey, less work for us ;) | 19:37 |
| wmarone_ | and kernel sources :) | 19:37 |
| wmarone_ | yeah | 19:37 |
| *** boiko has joined #meego | 19:37 | |
| Stskeeps | i still want to get wayland on that thing, should make a excellent target.. | 19:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:38 |
| *** SiggyF has quit IRC | 19:39 | |
| *** SiggyF has joined #meego | 19:39 | |
| Stskeeps | wmarone_: if we have .35 or .37 it really should be piece of cake to reuse the n900 sgx hardfp blobs, btw | 19:40 |
| wmarone_ | Stskeeps: that was my reasoning behind targeting 2.6.37 | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | and legally, too | 19:40 |
| *** pixelgeek1 has quit IRC | 19:43 | |
| *** mortenvp has joined #meego | 19:44 | |
| *** ware1 has joined #meego | 19:44 | |
| *** bdub has joined #meego | 19:45 | |
| *** andredieb has quit IRC | 19:45 | |
| *** bdub has quit IRC | 19:46 | |
| *** dspeed has quit IRC | 19:46 | |
| tripzero | is the nook meego available in the public? | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | i'll try to poke them about it tomorrow, it's a finnish holiday so | 19:47 |
| *** epx has joined #meego | 19:48 | |
| *** dspeed has joined #meego | 19:48 | |
| *** Alison_Chaiken has joined #meego | 19:48 | |
| *** marciom has left #meego | 19:49 | |
| * tripzero cuts new settings release | 19:49 | |
| *** slaine has quit IRC | 19:49 | |
| Stskeeps | is there a setting yet for rotating the launcher view, btw? | 19:51 |
| *** foolano has joined #meego | 19:51 | |
| *** anab1s_ has joined #meego | 19:55 | |
| *** anab1s has quit IRC | 19:55 | |
| *** anab1s_ is now known as anab1s | 19:55 | |
| *** vgradenexus has joined #meego | 19:55 | |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: you mean the appgrid? | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | ==launcher | 19:56 |
| gabrbedd | There's a gconf setting to set the orientation... but I think it may have gotten broken when they added all the auto-rotate stuff. | 19:57 |
| gabrbedd | ...but maybe it's fixed now... | 19:57 |
| *** pmccarty has joined #meego | 19:57 | |
| *** ware1 has quit IRC | 19:58 | |
| *** jophish has joined #meego | 19:58 | |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: /meego/ux/PreferredPortraitOrientation | 20:00 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: and /meego/ux/PreferredPortraitOrientation | 20:00 |
| *** ware1 has joined #meego | 20:00 | |
| Stskeeps | ah, cool | 20:00 |
| gabrbedd | integers... 0-4 | 20:00 |
| gabrbedd | IIRC, 0 is the left-hand side of the screen. | 20:01 |
| *** sepultina has joined #meego | 20:01 | |
| gabrbedd | erm... 0-3 | 20:01 |
| *** sepultina_ has quit IRC | 20:01 | |
| gabrbedd | :-) | 20:01 |
| *** acydlord has joined #meego | 20:02 | |
| *** trupheenix has joined #meego | 20:04 | |
| gabrbedd | yep, looks like it's still broken (or deprecated). Can't override the accelerometer (whether you have one or not). | 20:05 |
| akk | I usually see the opposite -- it does portrait even though the device is in landscape. | 20:06 |
| gabrbedd | akk: i'm looking at meego-ux-daemon 0.2.11... what you describe sounds like 0.2.6-ish. | 20:08 |
| akk | ah, maybe I haven't tried with the latest. | 20:08 |
| gabrbedd | akk: in that version, the gconf settings will work. | 20:09 |
| *** trupheenix has quit IRC | 20:09 | |
| *** pixelgeek has joined #meego | 20:10 | |
| * akk powers up to check, and watches the forever-blinky-cursor-before-boot | 20:11 | |
| *** isolor has quit IRC | 20:11 | |
| *** isolor has joined #meego | 20:11 | |
| *** niala has joined #meego | 20:11 | |
| qgil | hi, just a round of test: can you access https://meego.com without problems? | 20:14 |
| SpeedEvil | I get a couple of second stall at the start. | 20:15 |
| SpeedEvil | But it works fine | 20:15 |
| gabrbedd | qgil: yes | 20:15 |
| stonda | works for me | 20:16 |
| SpeedEvil | (may be my connection = stall) | 20:16 |
| akk | gabrbedd: yeah, it's 0.2.7. How do I change gconf settings? | 20:16 |
| *** RST38h has joined #meego | 20:16 | |
| qgil | ok, then it's me :) My Chrome version gets an SSL error | 20:16 |
| akk | (I guess zypper update isn't updating things like meego-ux-daemon) | 20:16 |
| qgil | thanks! | 20:16 |
| alterego | It's an android ploy!! | 20:17 |
| gabrbedd | akk: change gconf settings with gconftool-2 (CLI) | 20:17 |
| qgil | alterego: except there is no Chrome in Android? ;) | 20:17 |
| alterego | Works under microb too | 20:17 |
| alterego | It's meego tablet ux ploy!! | 20:17 |
| berndhs | works here from linux :) | 20:17 |
| gabrbedd | akk: To update with zypper, you have to add the newer repos. | 20:18 |
| gabrbedd | akk: But buyer beware... some things don't update right. (E.g. see the %post section of the .ks file where some libs get deleted post-install) | 20:18 |
| tripzero | qgil, also, check ur date. i've gotten ssl errors when my date is 1960 before | 20:19 |
| tripzero | apparently chrome doesn't like ssl certs that are in the future | 20:20 |
| qgil | tripzero: good point but seems to be correct. I'll clean sessions, cookies etc | 20:20 |
| akk | gconftool-2 -g /meego/ux/PreferredPortraitOrientation says it isn't set. Is that a gconftool setting name? | 20:20 |
| *** arvind_khadri has joined #meego | 20:21 | |
| gabrbedd | akk: if it doesn't exist, m-u-d uses a default instead of setting one for you. | 20:21 |
| tripzero | hmm | 20:21 |
| gabrbedd | akk: if it does exist, it'll use your value. | 20:21 |
| tripzero | seems like PreferredPortraitOrientation would make a good candidate for the hacks settings page... | 20:22 |
| *** smogzer has quit IRC | 20:22 | |
| *** javiF has quit IRC | 20:22 | |
| *** niala has left #meego | 20:23 | |
| akk | I love how gconftool-2 --help-client tells you to use -s with --type but then doesn't tell you which --help-foo entry would describe how to use --type. | 20:23 |
| gabrbedd | tripzero: ...except that I think m-u-d isn't utilizing it right now. :-) | 20:23 |
| akk | I think I'll just put up with turning my head sideways and wait for a newer version. :) | 20:23 |
| gabrbedd | gconftool-2 -s -t integer /meego/ux/PreferredPortraitOrientation 1 | 20:24 |
| tripzero | oh. :( | 20:24 |
| gabrbedd | (it might be -t int) | 20:24 |
| *** bdub has joined #meego | 20:25 | |
| akk | It accepts integer -- but I've tried 1, 2 and 3 and none of them change the orientation. | 20:26 |
| akk | Have to reboot each time? | 20:26 |
| gabrbedd | akk: nohup pkill uxlaunch | 20:26 |
| SpeedEvil | akk: 90,270,180? | 20:27 |
| gabrbedd | akk: that'll restart X... and thats when the settings will take effect. | 20:27 |
| *** situ has joined #meego | 20:27 | |
| akk | haha -- that makes the lock screen use portrait mode, but the "all applications" still rotates to portrait right after I start it. | 20:28 |
| akk | (I don't care what mode the lockscreen uses -- actually I wish I could get rid of it entirely) | 20:28 |
| gabrbedd | akk: yeah, so it looks like your version doesn't honor the setting. :-/ | 20:28 |
| akk | ah, there goes tracker-store again ... every time the fan goes crazy, that's what top shows | 20:29 |
| *** Moku has quit IRC | 20:30 | |
| * lcuk visited the IntelRemastered exhibit | 20:30 | |
| *** rosseaux has quit IRC | 20:30 | |
| lcuk | am calling back tomorrow to meetup with one of the meego guys | 20:31 |
| lcuk | the main piece I wanted to see was not fully inplace so have an even better reason to return :) | 20:31 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, @IntelUK are getting better pictures tham me I think | 20:31 |
| * lcuk crap at photos | 20:31 | |
| *** blindfish_ has quit IRC | 20:31 | |
| *** hugopl has quit IRC | 20:32 | |
| * lcuk might put the calendar on the wall in one place and see if people think it is an artpiece | 20:32 | |
| *** hugopl has joined #meego | 20:32 | |
| *** Aard has quit IRC | 20:33 | |
| *** Moku has joined #meego | 20:34 | |
| Stskeeps | ware1: so, how would you react if suddenly the OBS started supplying binaries to builds that doesn't seem to have any basis in the sources or binaries in the repository? | 20:34 |
| *** calvaris has quit IRC | 20:35 | |
| Stskeeps | ware1: i'm seeing some really weird OBS behaviour right now, basically feeding rpm-4.9 for ARM where we really don't have rpm 4.9 in 1.2 at all | 20:35 |
| *** magius_pendragon has quit IRC | 20:36 | |
| ware1 | Do you have more details? | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | yes, hang on | 20:37 |
| ware1 | Sure. | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | i really wonder if we're being hacked or it's just OBS acting stupid :) | 20:37 |
| ware1 | I'm sure either are very possible. ;-) | 20:37 |
| ware1 | Community OBS or MeeGo OBS? | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | meego obs | 20:38 |
| *** mwichmann has joined #meego | 20:38 | |
| *** Aard has joined #meego | 20:39 | |
| andyross | ... shouldn't OBS be pulling rpmbuild from the same repo it's building against? Can that even be configured around? | 20:39 |
| *** rosseaux has joined #meego | 20:39 | |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: thanks | 20:40 |
| DawnFoster | adam is looking to see if anything odd is going on | 20:40 |
| *** romen has joined #meego | 20:40 | |
| *** jophish has quit IRC | 20:42 | |
| Stskeeps | ware1: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1240994 , look at rpm-x86-arm package - http://build.meego.com/package/binaries?package=rpm-x86&project=MeeGo%3A1.2%3Aoss&repository=standard | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | that's for sure 4.8, not 4.9 :) | 20:42 |
| *** jophish has joined #meego | 20:43 | |
| lcuk | Jaffa, I have read today more about mismanagement and that the skunkworks plan is still continuing and rightly so. a small team treading outside the bounds of current system and actually *trying* something is better than a stead drip drip drip of normal development. | 20:43 |
| lcuk | iphone worked because a small test playground was created which literally hugged the features of the device it was intended for | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | ware1: same issue replicates within meego obs (look at 'failed' packages in MeeGo:1.2:oss) as well as downstream obs'es such as community obs | 20:44 |
| lcuk | it has taken a long slog to see anything remotely reasonable on omap3 class hardware from the qt end | 20:44 |
| * RST38h sacrifices a hamster for meego success, smiles at lcuk | 20:45 | |
| lcuk | :D | 20:45 |
| lcuk | lemmings are better | 20:45 |
| lcuk | they have high scores and quotas | 20:45 |
| *** deepa has joined #meego | 20:47 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: I know you have abill_uk in mind... | 20:47 |
| SpeedEvil | uAlso - you can press a button, and lemmings detonate. | 20:47 |
| thiago_home | can't we just throw birds at pigs? | 20:47 |
| RST38h | thiago: only if you do it in pure qtq | 20:47 |
| lcuk | :D | 20:47 |
| lcuk | lol RST38h | 20:47 |
| lcuk | RST38h, did I read something about android emulators being taken from the market place? | 20:48 |
| lcuk | are any of your thinamibobs up on android? | 20:48 |
| thiago_home | why does the android marketplace require android emulators? | 20:49 |
| *** ware1 has quit IRC | 20:49 | |
| lcuk | emulators running on android os* | 20:49 |
| thiago_home | ah | 20:49 |
| berndhs | game machine emulators I think | 20:49 |
| *** ware1 has joined #meego | 20:51 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: some chinese dude porting open sourced emulators and charging money for them | 20:51 |
| RST38h | lcuk: somehow, I can't feel sorry for him | 20:52 |
| SpeedEvil | You like android? We put android in your android so you can DRM while you DRM. | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | ware1: one more tidbit, rpm-x86-arm-4.9.0 seems to exist in Trunk:Testing, so maybe it's just a OBS bug: http://build.meego.com/package/binaries?package=rpm-x86&project=Trunk%3ATesting&repository=standard | 20:52 |
| * RST38h installed Android SDK. | 20:52 | |
| lcuk | i did too | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | with that exact release number | 20:53 |
| lcuk | but it was a bit odd and I couldn't get used to it | 20:53 |
| lcuk | so I loaded up qt-creator instead | 20:53 |
| *** epx has left #meego | 20:53 | |
| thiago_home | RST38h: did you read the SDK's license agreement before accepting it? | 20:53 |
| RST38h | thiago: Nah | 20:53 |
| *** b0unc3 has joined #meego | 20:54 | |
| RST38h | thiago: Does it say that I grant Google unlimited rights to everything I compile with goddamn thing? | 20:54 |
| *** acydlord has quit IRC | 20:54 | |
| ware1 | Stskeeps: Just chatted with Auke and others. We've been seeing some weird OBS behavior since yesterday. Anas and Adam are looking into it. | 20:54 |
| w00t | I think it grants them rights to rip off your ideas mercilessly, at least | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | ware1: ok, cool - i noticed it early this morning if you need a timeframe | 20:55 |
| RST38h | The SDK itself pretty much serves as a good example of "cruel and/or unusual punishment". No idea WHY it is done this way. Although their device emulator is pretty neat, way better than anything Maemo or Symbian ever had. | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | ware1: feel free to prod me if i can help with anything from ARM pov | 20:55 |
| *** dchaverri26 has quit IRC | 20:55 | |
| *** chris-qBT has quit IRC | 20:55 | |
| lcuk | w00t, sad panda | 20:55 |
| ware1 | Stskeeps: Will do! | 20:57 |
| anab1s | lcuk: I have a question about emgd-bin, could you help me please? | 20:57 |
| lcuk | you can ask the question, but I know next to nothing about emgd | 20:57 |
| *** blindfish_ has joined #meego | 20:58 | |
| *** b0unc3_ has quit IRC | 20:58 | |
| anab1s | lcuk: ok, do you know of anyone (apart from vgrade) that does? I can't get through to him at the moment | 20:58 |
| lcuk | just ask now | 20:59 |
| lcuk | there are 464 other people here who might know | 20:59 |
| anab1s | lcuk: ok | 20:59 |
| anab1s | I've installed meego IVI, the emgd-bin package shows up as installed, however, I don't see the benefits: GUI is slow & screen resolution is slow. How do I fix this? | 21:00 |
| *** jrocha has quit IRC | 21:00 | |
| *** toabctl has quit IRC | 21:00 | |
| Stskeeps | check xorg.0.log | 21:00 |
| lcuk | anab1s, what screen resolution are you running at | 21:01 |
| lcuk | because it is entirely feasible to overload any graphics card | 21:01 |
| anab1s | lcuk: 1280X720 | 21:01 |
| gabrbedd | akk: BTW, in the more recent snapshots... if you don't have an accelerometer then everything stays landscape. | 21:02 |
| anab1s | lcuk: it's a nokia booklet 3g | 21:03 |
| lcuk | :D | 21:03 |
| lcuk | anab1s, try reviewing the log as Stskeeps mentioned | 21:03 |
| anab1s | lcuk: where can I find the log? | 21:04 |
| lcuk | in the computer | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | /var/log/Xorg.0.log | 21:04 |
| anab1s | lcuk: lol, I know that, which directory? which file? | 21:04 |
| anab1s | Stskeeps: thanks | 21:05 |
| gabrbedd | I thought it was something like /tmp/Xorg.0.anab1s.log | 21:05 |
| *** renato has quit IRC | 21:06 | |
| *** goutam_ has joined #meego | 21:06 | |
| *** goutam__ has quit IRC | 21:07 | |
| *** chpadhi has joined #meego | 21:07 | |
| *** goutam__ has joined #meego | 21:07 | |
| *** dgc03052 has joined #meego | 21:07 | |
| *** chpadhi has quit IRC | 21:08 | |
| *** chpadhi has joined #meego | 21:09 | |
| * auke is back, anyone called me? | 21:11 | |
| *** goutam_ has quit IRC | 21:11 | |
| Stskeeps | nop, just discussing OBS being moody | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | thanks for the systemd feedback btw | 21:13 |
| *** sepultina has quit IRC | 21:13 | |
| ware1 | Is there a time where OBS isn't moody? ;-) | 21:13 |
| *** chpadhi has quit IRC | 21:14 | |
| *** chpadhi has joined #meego | 21:15 | |
| *** chpadhi has joined #meego | 21:15 | |
| pebcak | systemd *puke* | 21:16 |
| *** piggz has joined #meego | 21:19 | |
| *** Aparna has quit IRC | 21:20 | |
| *** situ has quit IRC | 21:20 | |
| ware1 | systemd <3<3<3 | 21:25 |
| ware1 | ;-) | 21:25 |
| *** dchaverri26 has joined #meego | 21:27 | |
| pebcak | lennart, is that you? :P | 21:29 |
| *** chris-qBT has joined #meego | 21:31 | |
| gabrbedd | pebcak: If you haven't already... you should check out auke's talk on systemd at the conference. | 21:32 |
| gabrbedd | (when the videos are posted, that is.) | 21:32 |
| pebcak | gabrbedd I'm looking at systemd from a very different point of view.... | 21:33 |
| *** renato has joined #meego | 21:33 | |
| gabrbedd | pebcak: and that POV would be... ?? | 21:34 |
| *** abhijeet has quit IRC | 21:35 | |
| pebcak | that of a systemadministrator who has to do some things systemd, pulseaudio, networkmanager and dbus do not likr | 21:35 |
| pebcak | -e | 21:35 |
| pebcak | ;) | 21:35 |
| auke | Stskeeps: figured I'd cc you on that - might be useful to steer future submissions from being unreviewed | 21:35 |
| auke | pebcak: we don't have NM in meego :D | 21:36 |
| pebcak | (I'm oldschool using fvwm and all) | 21:36 |
| pebcak | auke and I so wonder why *sarcasm* | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | auke: :nod: | 21:36 |
| *** akk has quit IRC | 21:36 | |
| pebcak | you got connman | 21:36 |
| auke | pebcak: you might like my devel:xfce tree then... | 21:36 |
| gabrbedd | pebcak: I could see why systemd would be a pain on a server -- but it looks like a good solution for MeeGo. | 21:38 |
| gabrbedd | ...or even a desktop. | 21:38 |
| *** qgil has quit IRC | 21:41 | |
| *** b0unc3_ has joined #meego | 21:42 | |
| *** vgradenexus has quit IRC | 21:42 | |
| *** AndChat has joined #meego | 21:42 | |
| *** the-light has joined #meego | 21:42 | |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** AndChat is now known as Guest93181 | 21:43 | |
| *** bdub has quit IRC | 21:44 | |
| *** sergeyle has joined #meego | 21:45 | |
| auke | the more services you have, the better systemd will be for you | 21:45 |
| pebcak | gabrbedd yeah I think there somewhen will be a big split | 21:47 |
| pebcak | some distros solely focusing on the desktop users | 21:47 |
| pebcak | and some distros for people like me.... with Xforwarding :P | 21:47 |
| gabrbedd | auke: forgive me for being dense... but didn't you say that systemd is kind of... not very configurable? | 21:48 |
| * gabrbedd is not looking forward to the loss of xforwarding... | 21:48 | |
| auke | X forwarding will not be lost | 21:49 |
| auke | you can run X11 on top of wayland | 21:49 |
| auke | and so | 21:49 |
| auke | sshd can just forward to X11 as normal | 21:49 |
| thiago_home | just like Mac | 21:50 |
| auke | we don't want it configurable | 21:50 |
| auke | configurable means people drop something in and run off without making their service robust | 21:50 |
| *** TSCHAKeee has quit IRC | 21:51 | |
| auke | or depend on horrible hacks to configure their service while the service themselves should be doing this when it's starting up anyway | 21:51 |
| gabrbedd | ok on the X forwarding. all the wayland talk makes it sound like X11's days are numbered. | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | if anything, 1.3 should be a learning experience in that area | 21:52 |
| auke | TBH, x forwarding should be replaced with something more performant anyway | 21:52 |
| auke | also, x forwarding is nice but what you want is to be able to see your remote desktop | 21:53 |
| auke | x11 doesn't do that very well | 21:53 |
| auke | and xvnc is a bad hack | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | rdp on winxp is really well-made in that area, at least | 21:53 |
| berndhs | for many cases, you dont want to see the whole desktop, just 1 application | 21:53 |
| gabrbedd | auke: so... on systemd it sounds like hacked-up services are being exposed right now. Right? | 21:53 |
| *** acydlord has joined #meego | 21:54 | |
| gabrbedd | I typically use X forwarding for a single app when debugging apps on MeeGo. | 21:54 |
| auke | they're effectively disabled in Trunk, until they are converted to proper systemd unit files | 21:54 |
| RST38h | Better tell me, has Qt got its own window manager already? | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: sure, qt-compositor | 21:54 |
| gabrbedd | auke: OK, that explains why an admin like pebcak wouldn't like it right now. :-) | 21:54 |
| auke | not true | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/03/18/multi-process-lighthouse/ | 21:55 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: With window borders, draggable titles, etc? | 21:55 |
| auke | for meego, we chose to disable init.d compatibility on purpose | 21:55 |
| pebcak | gabrbedd why would I run X11 on top on wayland when I can just run X11? | 21:55 |
| thiago_home | the qt-compositor is just a framework for making compositors | 21:55 |
| auke | in fc15, systemd has init.d compatibility enabled, thus he could just use that going forward | 21:55 |
| pebcak | please explain that me | 21:55 |
| thiago_home | it's useful for embedded customers of Qt | 21:55 |
| thiago_home | those who want a replacement for QWS | 21:55 |
| auke | pebcak: the x11 -> wayland transport does not introduce a performance loss | 21:56 |
| thiago_home | MeeGo may or may not use the qt-compositor. It might just use a regular Wayland compositor. | 21:56 |
| *** deepa has quit IRC | 21:56 | |
| pebcak | auke in theory | 21:56 |
| auke | other then maybe some memory overhead | 21:56 |
| pebcak | and maybe I just don't want to run wayland, maybe I don't need wayland? | 21:56 |
| pebcak | why introduce another layer? | 21:57 |
| tripzero | doesn't wayland simplify the layers? | 21:57 |
| auke | wayland takes out layers | 21:57 |
| thiago_home | pebcak: you don't have a choice | 21:57 |
| auke | ... for wayland compositors, that is | 21:57 |
| thiago_home | you will run wayland as opposed to X11 | 21:57 |
| thiago_home | you'll need X11 only if you want to run legacy apps | 21:58 |
| pebcak | thiago who says I don't have a choice? | 21:58 |
| thiago_home | we do | 21:58 |
| thiago_home | the people developing MeeGo: we're telling you that Wayland will not be optional. | 21:58 |
| pebcak | thiago we'll see about that | 21:58 |
| pebcak | :D | 21:58 |
| RST38h | too bad | 21:58 |
| auke | pebcak: you don't have a choice <jedi arm wave> | 21:59 |
| RST38h | Will kill Meego on anything lacking 3D hardware or drivers | 21:59 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: right. | 21:59 |
| auke | win! | 21:59 |
| tripzero | RST38h, does meego work on anything today lacking 3d hardware? | 21:59 |
| thiago_home | unless you use software rendering, which is better than the current state | 21:59 |
| RST38h | tripzero: yes | 21:59 |
| thiago_home | MeeGo already requires OpenGL ES 2 | 21:59 |
| pebcak | tripzero explain to me, why I couldn't just package X and my apps? | 21:59 |
| * RST38h hopes there will be a usable option to use hw rendering | 21:59 | |
| thiago_home | so reequiring OpenGL ES 2 will not be a new ting | 22:00 |
| RST38h | thiago: not really, parts of meego do | 22:00 |
| pebcak | aeh thiago_home | 22:00 |
| RST38h | s/hw/sw | 22:00 |
| thiago_home | well, like I said, there are software rasterisers that emulate OpenGL ES and work better than the current stack we have | 22:00 |
| tripzero | i don't know why you would use X11 moving forward... | 22:00 |
| thiago_home | as proven by benchmarks | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: so llvmpipe works better than raster? | 22:01 |
| thiago_home | yes | 22:01 |
| thiago_home | 50% better when multithreading is enabled | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | i should try it out | 22:01 |
| thiago_home | similar performance without | 22:01 |
| pebcak | tripzero nah, thiago just said I don't have a choice... I think I have | 22:01 |
| pebcak | :P | 22:01 |
| thiago_home | pebcak: you can choose to stop using Linux | 22:01 |
| *** Guest93181 has quit IRC | 22:01 | |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: that does beg the question if a software rasteriser is good enough for meego compliance though ;) | 22:01 |
| pebcak | thiago_home no, I can package netbeans from source, bet you I can package Xorg. ;) | 22:02 |
| thiago_home | but I'm assuming that, if you're in this channel, we're under the precondition that you want to use MeeGo | 22:02 |
| thiago_home | pebcak: but will apps run? | 22:02 |
| w00t | it's not just a matter of packaging X | 22:02 |
| pebcak | thiago the apps I use... sure | 22:02 |
| pebcak | :) | 22:02 |
| * RST38h wonders if thiago will consider it a success when pebcak leaves #meego | 22:02 | |
| w00t | you'll also need to alter Qt's packaging to talk to it, and whatever UX you want to use to talk to it | 22:02 |
| thiago_home | including the apps that have been ported to use Wayland instead of X? | 22:03 |
| thiago_home | and the apps that make use of OpenGL shaders? | 22:03 |
| pebcak | RST38h nah, I won't, just to funny :P | 22:03 |
| pebcak | thiago_home you don't get that there will be forks? | 22:03 |
| thiago_home | Qt based apps should just run with a switch of a Lighthouse platform plugin | 22:03 |
| thiago_home | pebcak: correct, I don't get | 22:03 |
| thiago_home | why would people want to use an inferior solution? | 22:03 |
| pebcak | because your superior product has various flaws for their kind of use? | 22:04 |
| RST38h | because they have real life limitations forcing them into inferior solution? | 22:04 |
| pebcak | :) | 22:04 |
| RST38h | like cheap, less capable hardware? | 22:04 |
| RST38h | or hardware that is not fully supported by drivers? | 22:04 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: software rasteriser | 22:04 |
| * SpeedEvil is currently looking at an 8M linux box. | 22:04 | |
| thiago_home | do I have to tell you that for the third time? | 22:04 |
| pebcak | oh joy | 22:04 |
| thiago_home | pebcak: what are your problems with Wayland? | 22:04 |
| RST38h | no, but I think you should give this option some more official love | 22:05 |
| RST38h | rather than say "we require OpenGLES2" | 22:05 |
| thiago_home | we required it, period | 22:05 |
| thiago_home | no one with a device in mind and time to market has time to work on the software rasteriser | 22:05 |
| pebcak | thiago_home it's not that it would matter to you, because "you don't have a choice" | 22:05 |
| * RST38h sighs | 22:06 | |
| Stskeeps | cheesecake! | 22:06 |
| tripzero | nom nom nom | 22:06 |
| thiago_home | pebcak: MeeGo will use Wayland as a matter of reducing the layers from the application to the OpenGL hardware | 22:06 |
| w00t | thiago_home: (and I'm not sure why you'd want to, when that software pipeline is faster than what exists now) | 22:06 |
| pebcak | thiago_home It's not a problem for me when it comes to meego | 22:06 |
| pebcak | it's more a problem for me when it comes to my job | 22:06 |
| pebcak | ... | 22:06 |
| thiago_home | what is your MeeGo-related job? | 22:06 |
| *** wazd has joined #meego | 22:07 | |
| pebcak | thiago_home moar | 22:07 |
| RST38h | [According to new North Korean government research the happiest place on earth is China. And then North Korea, followed by Cuba, Venezuela and Iran.] | 22:07 |
| *** maligor has quit IRC | 22:07 | |
| tripzero | rofl | 22:07 |
| gabrbedd | pebcak: well, please don't stir up crap on #meego if it isn't about meego. :-) | 22:07 |
| *** acydlord has quit IRC | 22:07 | |
| pebcak | gabrbedd ... | 22:07 |
| *** maligor has joined #meego | 22:07 | |
| thiago_home | if you're developing MeeGo, you can make a change there | 22:08 |
| thiago_home | if you're developing a MeeGo-based device, just make your HW provider give you GL drivers | 22:08 |
| thiago_home | if you're making applications, you don't have to care | 22:08 |
| thiago_home | if you're trying to port it to a 3rd-party device, invest some time in the mesa rasteriser that already works quite fine | 22:08 |
| thiago_home | what did I forget? | 22:09 |
| pebcak | thiago_home yeah, I get it, I don't have a choice | 22:09 |
| pebcak | gabrbedd I'll shut up | 22:09 |
| RST38h | thiago: You forgot "Use Android instead" | 22:09 |
| *** foolano has quit IRC | 22:09 | |
| pebcak | RST38h debian with e17 :D | 22:10 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: no, I didn't. 21:01 < thiago_home> pebcak: you can choose to stop using Linux | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | even android seems to go towards requiring glesv2 these days :P | 22:10 |
| thiago_home | I really expect most Linux distros to start switching to Wayland next year | 22:10 |
| *** anab1s has quit IRC | 22:10 | |
| ShadowJK | "just make your HW provider give you GL drivers" <- let's get our torches, pitch-forks, pickup-trucks and shotguns and go make them :) | 22:13 |
| thiago_home | ShadowJK: note the "if" part of that sentence | 22:14 |
| *** billyjam has joined #meego | 22:14 | |
| RST38h | thiago: Let me give you a good example: Intel and PowerVR drivers =) | 22:15 |
| thiago_home | yes, that's a good example | 22:15 |
| thiago_home | if you can't get the drivers, rewrite them | 22:15 |
| pebcak | "<thiago_home> just like Mac" maybe that's the problem, if I want a mac, I get a mac | 22:16 |
| lcuk | open source codes around problems | 22:16 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, problem with drivers is usually that the magic codes and apis for talking to the blackbox are not so easy to find | 22:17 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: I know | 22:17 |
| thiago_home | but mesa+llvmpipe works fine | 22:17 |
| thiago_home | anyway, the point is that you cannot ask people making devices who do have access to good drivers to be held back by unsupported devices without drivers | 22:19 |
| RST38h | thiago: And I am sure the hw maker will provide you with all the necessary datasheets to rewrite drivers? | 22:21 |
| * alterego just got a nice mini bluetooth/usb keyboard for his exo | 22:21 | |
| alterego | Works very nicely | 22:21 |
| tripzero | alterego, u got bt to work on th eexo? | 22:22 |
| tripzero | i find it rather flaky | 22:22 |
| alterego | tripzero: I'm using ubuntu 11.04 :x | 22:22 |
| tripzero | ... | 22:22 |
| tripzero | :( | 22:22 |
| alterego | Works really well :x | 22:22 |
| tripzero | hmm, maybe driver support has improved in the 2.6.38 kernel | 22:23 |
| *** situ has joined #meego | 22:24 | |
| *** anab1s has joined #meego | 22:24 | |
| thiago_home | RST38h: if I'm buying hundreds of thousands or millions of units, the HW vendor will give me drivers | 22:25 |
| RST38h | Yea, right | 22:25 |
| berndhs | and if you buy less, you're just a hobbyist | 22:26 |
| RST38h | So simple, so logical... :) | 22:26 |
| thiago_home | the point is: if I'm going to choose a platform from a vendor, I'll choose a vendor that will comply to my specs | 22:26 |
| thiago_home | my specs include "OpenGL ES 2" | 22:26 |
| thiago_home | if your specs are to make fruit juice, you don't buy toasters | 22:27 |
| tripzero | mmm, toast | 22:27 |
| * tripzero hunts for food | 22:27 | |
| * thiago_home will go for yoghurt in half an hour | 22:27 | |
| thiago_home | when the Sun sets | 22:27 |
| tripzero | Greek yoghurt? | 22:28 |
| berndhs | Sun always sets somewhere | 22:28 |
| thiago_home | Oslo | 22:28 |
| *** wazd has quit IRC | 22:30 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 22:30 | |
| tripzero | in Oslo, the sun is always setting | 22:30 |
| pebcak | tripzero the 1.2.0.90 images have 2.6.38 and I don't have working bluetooth | 22:31 |
| tripzero | boo | 22:31 |
| tripzero | :( | 22:31 |
| tripzero | maybe ubuntu found a patch | 22:31 |
| *** lbt_ has joined #meego | 22:31 | |
| *** NishanthM has joined #meego | 22:31 | |
| *** hiemanshu_ has joined #meego | 22:32 | |
| pebcak | it worked somewhen tough | 22:33 |
| *** blindfish_ has quit IRC | 22:34 | |
| tripzero | yeh, same as now. sometimes it works... | 22:34 |
| *** hiemanshu has quit IRC | 22:35 | |
| *** Savago has quit IRC | 22:35 | |
| *** pohly has joined #meego | 22:36 | |
| *** billyjam has quit IRC | 22:38 | |
| Stskeeps | !$^#^ | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | was fighting all evening with my joggler on why tablet UX looked really screwed up color wise | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | turned out i had my xorg using 16bpp instead of 24bpp | 22:39 |
| tripzero | ahh | 22:40 |
| tripzero | lols | 22:40 |
| w00t | I've had that happen on my laptop a few times | 22:40 |
| *** billyjam has joined #meego | 22:41 | |
| *** chris-qBT has quit IRC | 22:41 | |
| Stskeeps | now for the next fun step: how to use tablet ux on a device without hardware buttons | 22:43 |
| *** TSCHAKeee has joined #meego | 22:43 | |
| Stskeeps | or for that matter, proximity sensor | 22:43 |
| vgrade | Stskeeps, connect a kb :) | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | vgrade: not wife friendly | 22:43 |
| vgrade | Stskeeps, same here | 22:44 |
| *** andredieb has joined #meego | 22:45 | |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, I guess if you had a vibrating keyboard it might be more wife friendly | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | tripzero: think i'll hack in a button in the top bar menu for task switch | 22:45 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: how are you getting a top bar menu? | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: status bar, tap it - the one with the clock | 22:46 |
| tripzero | Stskeeps, the toolbar ? | 22:47 |
| tripzero | ah, the status bar | 22:47 |
| tripzero | ur going to add a task switcher initiator button? | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, no hw button, so | 22:47 |
| tripzero | so here's an idea... | 22:47 |
| lcuk | hey stskeeps, if you do get around to one button, there is also related bug 16611 | 22:48 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16611 nor, Undecided, ---, kevron_m_rees, NEW, Clicking on the clock in top right should send close action | 22:48 |
| tripzero | we are talking about some cool changes in m-u-c | 22:48 |
| tripzero | where you could create your own implamentation of Window | 22:48 |
| tripzero | and pass in your own Toolbar | 22:48 |
| lcuk | Mm-u-c ? | 22:48 |
| tripzero | with say, a home and exit button | 22:48 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: I don't get a status bar when there's an app showing. | 22:48 |
| tripzero | meego-ux-components | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: odd, i do (on tablet ux) | 22:48 |
| * gabrbedd blinks | 22:49 | |
| *** situ has quit IRC | 22:49 | |
| Stskeeps | i'd take a photo of it but i'm fairly sure it would have me in the reflection, and no photo of me in shorts shall make it to the interweb | 22:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:49 |
| gabrbedd | :-) | 22:49 |
| tripzero | it's still just being talked about, but it would allow people to take mux and use it better in say, ivi or handsets | 22:49 |
| vgrade | Stskeeps, so you need a button. Android on the Joggler used gestures on the toolbar. left swipe back. right swipe home, down swipe menu | 22:50 |
| gabrbedd | Maybe it's a recent change? Maybe an mcompositor thing? | 22:50 |
| lcuk | tripzero, so would the titlebar be universally installable and selectable from a control panel applet, or is this a per application style component you are thinking? | 22:50 |
| lcuk | (if it is per app, that is already available with subclassing isn't it?) | 22:51 |
| fiferboy | gabrbedd: I have had the statusbar in apps since the oldest 1.2 I tried | 22:51 |
| tripzero | lcuk, more like a universal thing | 22:51 |
| andyross | gabrbedd: you're talking about an X app, not a meego-qml-launcher thing, right? Pretty sure mcompositor only knows how to grant a fullscreen window | 22:51 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, are the apps you are running native qml/qt or these the legacy ones which the window manager cannot handle | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: ah.. i meant from MUC apps | 22:51 |
| vgrade | Stskeeps, r/so/do | 22:51 |
| lcuk | tripzero, so a QML_App omponent which has a titlebar etc? | 22:52 |
| tripzero | and currently, subclassing window doesn't offer that kind of control. but maybe could in the future | 22:52 |
| lcuk | anything is possible in the future | 22:52 |
| tripzero | the way I'd like it, is that part of the qml comes from the theme | 22:52 |
| lcuk | stskeeps might infact get dressed and take a pic of the titlebar :P | 22:52 |
| tripzero | so a theme could be installed that changes the entire look of the titlebar | 22:52 |
| lcuk | of all the chrome | 22:53 |
| Stskeeps | vgrade: gestures on toolbar should be possible too | 22:53 |
| lcuk | I thought this sort of stuff was done? | 22:53 |
| Stskeeps | vgrade: in fact sortof trivial | 22:53 |
| gabrbedd | andyross: Stskeeps: Yeah, I'm talking about normal apps (Qt, Xlib, etc.) -- not MUC apps. | 22:53 |
| tripzero | lcuk, sorry, you can change the look, but I'm talking about how it fundamentally interacts being themeable as well | 22:54 |
| tripzero | of course, this is just me thinking out loud | 22:54 |
| lcuk | QML + Wayland == no backwards compatability even with apps running today on 1.2? | 22:54 |
| vgrade | Stskeeps, gestures worked great on android Joggler | 22:54 |
| vgrade | Stskeeps, and don't take up any real estate | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | vgrade: +1 | 22:55 |
| * Stskeeps likes | 22:55 | |
| tripzero | for example, someone could install meego-ux-components-window-ivi and that would make window more IVI friendly with toolbar, etc | 22:55 |
| lcuk | tripzero, well if the titlebar component is a piece of chrome which sits in a vbox above the content, anything which happens in that frames code is down to that? | 22:55 |
| vgrade | its not an androis thing per se, just what some dev used to work around not having any hw buttons | 22:56 |
| lcuk | ie, your mention of theme and interaction is already second nature to it? | 22:56 |
| lcuk | (I always imagine chrome as being the television frame with channel changer buttons | 22:56 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: there's also the mouse @ 0 thing that the Netbook does. A painful gesture to master... but would work even with non-MUC apps. | 22:56 |
| tripzero | oh, like an overlay? | 22:56 |
| *** lynxis has joined #meego | 22:56 | |
| lcuk | tripzero, running the core app on a different ux should just adapt anyway | 22:56 |
| lcuk | like today runnning same Qt app on maemo and symbian | 22:57 |
| lcuk | the whole button locations move | 22:57 |
| lcuk | and different rules about interaction etc | 22:57 |
| pebcak | Stskeeps xwd | 22:57 |
| lcuk | tripzero, the black and white tv screen is the content area | 22:57 |
| * lcuk imagined it like that since learning about visual objects | 22:57 | |
| *** TSCHAKeee has quit IRC | 22:58 | |
| *** billyjam has quit IRC | 22:58 | |
| *** SiggyF has quit IRC | 23:01 | |
| *** aleksander_m has quit IRC | 23:02 | |
| tripzero | gotcha | 23:06 |
| *** situ has joined #meego | 23:06 | |
| *** smoku has left #meego | 23:09 | |
| *** ware1 has quit IRC | 23:10 | |
| *** chpadhi has quit IRC | 23:11 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 23:14 | |
| *** jevin has quit IRC | 23:15 | |
| *** Aparna has joined #meego | 23:16 | |
| *** juliank has quit IRC | 23:16 | |
| *** acydlord has joined #meego | 23:18 | |
| *** fiferboy has quit IRC | 23:19 | |
| *** Aparna has quit IRC | 23:20 | |
| *** thiagoss has quit IRC | 23:25 | |
| *** pohly has quit IRC | 23:26 | |
| *** puffin_ has quit IRC | 23:27 | |
| *** vipio has joined #meego | 23:29 | |
| *** phdeswer has quit IRC | 23:31 | |
| *** Savago has joined #meego | 23:31 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #meego | 23:32 | |
| *** isolor has quit IRC | 23:32 | |
| *** jrocha has joined #meego | 23:37 | |
| *** CosmoHill has joined #meego | 23:38 | |
| lcuk | whih film has best use of technology/computer input devices? | 23:38 |
| lcuk | btw, excluding start trek and CSI | 23:38 |
| lcuk | which film has best use of technology/computer input devices? | 23:38 |
| *** kraiskil has quit IRC | 23:38 | |
| * andre__ votes for Ben Hur | 23:39 | |
| thiago_home | minority report was quite good | 23:39 |
| RST38h | Obviously the Matrix | 23:39 |
| RST38h | Come on... | 23:39 |
| lcuk | tom cruise has gorilla arms! | 23:40 |
| lcuk | RST38h, debatable, that may of course be good for hackers | 23:40 |
| *** Savago has quit IRC | 23:40 | |
| gabrbedd | i kinda liked "date night" | 23:40 |
| dm8tbr | the matrix uses nmap at some point :) | 23:40 |
| tripzero | hmm, an input device that connects up to my brain. win! | 23:40 |
| *** phdeswer has joined #meego | 23:41 | |
| lcuk | would foot pedals at workspaces add anything viable to the UX? | 23:41 |
| RST38h | Matrix has got direct brain plug *and* what looks like a rectal probe | 23:41 |
| RST38h | There is no way you can beat that,no matter how hard you try | 23:41 |
| dm8tbr | lcuk: for ivi :) | 23:42 |
| lcuk | lol dm8tbr | 23:42 |
| berndhs | IVI should turn off the movies during a crash | 23:42 |
| lcuk | in workshops for most of the last century, sewing machines etc used foot pedals | 23:43 |
| lcuk | berndhs, they need to rewind a little it | 23:43 |
| lcuk | bit | 23:43 |
| * lcuk notes dodgy keyboard | 23:43 | |
| berndhs | Iyes they should assume that the viewer missed the last 12 seconds or so | 23:43 |
| lcuk | they could use microphones inside the car | 23:44 |
| berndhs | detect the screaming coinciding with the decelleration ? | 23:45 |
| lcuk | how would you computerise the control/IVI on a *motorbike* | 23:45 |
| berndhs | bikes are easy, headphones, project in helmet visor, play real loud | 23:45 |
| lcuk | for one thing, I note a capacitive touchscreen input is not applicable | 23:46 |
| berndhs | same for artillery-mounted IVI | 23:46 |
| lcuk | and everything else on the bike is very firmly tactile | 23:46 |
| *** javispedro has joined #meego | 23:46 | |
| RST38h | So, for heavy machine guns, do you use IVI or the Handset UX? | 23:46 |
| RST38h | moo javispedro | 23:47 |
| berndhs | if it has no wheels, but ahs handles, its a mobile | 23:47 |
| lcuk | RST38h, I suppose if they are mounted on a vehicle or not | 23:47 |
| RST38h | ah | 23:47 |
| RST38h | logical | 23:47 |
| lcuk | one of those big hip based ones from Aliens | 23:47 |
| lcuk | would generally run the handset ux | 23:47 |
| lcuk | (it would make correct "they are in the walls dude" noises | 23:48 |
| lcuk | so back to the question: which is best fictional UX | 23:50 |
| javispedro | hi RST38h | 23:50 |
| *** jpetersen has quit IRC | 23:50 | |
| *** mauricelynch has joined #meego | 23:51 | |
| lcuk | javispedro, tagging and grouping is addictive o_O | 23:53 |
| javispedro | I bet | 23:53 |
| javispedro | though its usefulness is to be studied :D | 23:54 |
| javispedro | what are you tagging? | 23:54 |
| lcuk | all 7000 sketches | 23:54 |
| lcuk | nice uber big graffiti wall with every sketch in, dreamy kinetics and multitouch with awesome big easy hit tags | 23:55 |
| javispedro | you have a screenshot with the big tags? | 23:55 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20110528_142619.liqrecentsketches_tagging.scr.png | 23:55 |
| lcuk | like that ^ | 23:55 |
| lcuk | the tag cloud resulting is just a tag cloud, hold on | 23:55 |
| lcuk | oh crap, it is not on the network | 23:56 |
| javispedro | heh, hp to license webos. | 23:57 |
| lcuk | bike, blank, brightness,calendar,car,cells,colour,fish,gary,guide,hello,house,icon,jacob,notag,practice,smile,spiral,star,tictactoe,time,train,ui,words,zoom so far | 23:57 |
| RST38h | javispedro: are there any takers? | 23:58 |
| javispedro | RST38h: not yet seemingly | 23:58 |
| *** ced117 has quit IRC | 23:59 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
