IRC log of #meego for Saturday, 2011-03-26

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gabrbeddDawnFoster: Yes, looking forward to that.  I really want to base my build on it.00:03
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DawnFostereverything I've seen indicates that it should be soon00:03
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andybleadenDawnFoster, have you got many user stories for the conference.ie why i use meego and what i need in the future?00:05
andybleadenDawnFoster, not necessarily a  ' I cant get this to work , how do I fix this etc ' more a ..this is what I use a netbook/tablet for but would like to be able to do x or y00:07
lbtandybleaden: are you asking as an end-user or a device-vendor ?00:07
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andybleadenlbt, oh I am only ever an end user..unless you want to swap my old netbook for shiny new tablet!00:08
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amazon4ik_lbt: it turned out, that there are no packages in any project on build.pub.meego.com, so I cannot link a package with an existing one... Is it right?00:09
gabrbeddDawnFoster: Thanks!00:09
lbtwell, my personal opinion is that you should find a project making a distro for your device and ask them :)00:09
lbteg - if you had an N900 you'd ask the DE project00:09
andybleadenlbt, I am serious though.used this tons this last 1-2 years and meego although problematic is not just hitting all my gaps00:09
lbtamazon4ik_: nope00:10
lbtamazon4ik_: you should be able to set a build target of MeeGo:current and it'll build00:10
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andybleadenlbt, and I have not got a clue about phones..or even tablets ..just netbooks00:10
amazon4ik_lbt: oh, I'll try)00:10
lbtandybleaden: I have an opinion about MeeGo ... it shouldn't care about you :)00:11
slummercan i develop meego on debian sid?00:12
lbtI think there should be a netbook project, operating in the open ... on top of MeeGo:1.2 etc ... that *does* care00:12
lbtslummer: yes00:12
lbtuse the obs00:12
slummerobs?00:12
lbtit has a command line tool called osc which sets up a chroot on your machine and builds in that00:13
andybleadenlbt, what do you mean then00:13
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lbtandybleaden: -> I think there should be a netbook project, operating in the open ... on top of MeeGo:1.2 etc ... that *does* care00:13
lbtthat project should take your use-cases and push them to meego .... and meego should aim to accept features based on ability to deliver00:14
lbtif your netbook project has 1 guy doing an hour a week ... then no, meego won't accept that feature00:14
lbtif there are 10 of us doing 10h a week .... then sure they should00:15
lbtall just IMHO00:15
andybleadenlbt, are you not happy with the netbook thing then?00:16
lbt?00:16
lbtI'm not unhappy00:16
slummeri changed the /etc/apt/sources.list and 'aptitude update' 'aptitude install meego-sdk' but i am stuck on 'mad-admin create -f <target>' gives 404 not found error00:16
andybleadenlbt, bit like ubuntu used to have a brainstorm thing..top ideas forum00:16
lbtjust explaining how I think it should work00:16
andybleadenlbt, cool00:17
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lbtheh ... but most OSS works this way ...... despite what the IP people say, ideas are not in short supply :)00:17
lbtslummer: mmm00:17
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lbtI don't know about the SDK ...00:17
andybleadenlbt, but ubuntu used to be able have a vote for things00:17
lbtslummer: there were some issues reported just recently.... you may want to hold on a day or 500:18
andybleadenlbt, and I think dell did too00:18
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ali1234ubuntu still has brainstorm00:18
andybleadenali1234, aha00:18
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lbtandybleaden: yeah ... I personally don't think MeeGo should take votes from end-users00:19
andybleadenali1234, worried that that was a false memory00:19
lbtI think there should be a layer in between00:19
slummerk00:19
andybleadenlbt, layer..what like ..men in grey suits ;)00:19
lbtyes00:19
andybleadenlbt, I am joking00:19
ali1234as far as netbook "UX" goes, seems like the competitors are unity, hildon, and whatever that kde thing is00:19
lbtI'm not00:19
slummerlbt: was that 'obs' directed at me?00:20
lbtwho do you think meego's customers are?00:20
lbtslummer: no :)00:20
slummerk00:20
andybleadenlbt, I am one00:20
lbtslummer: do you want to write apps ?00:20
slummeryes00:20
lbtandybleaden: no, IMHO, you're not00:20
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andybleadenlbt, how come00:20
andybleaden?00:20
lbtslummer: OK - you want the SDK then - not the OBS (just yet)00:20
slummerwhat is the 'obs'?00:21
lbtandybleaden: again, my opinion, MeeGo is a platform for device vendors to make cool devices00:21
lbtslummer: http://wiki.meego.com/OBS00:21
lbtandybleaden: and if you want a feature - you talk to a device vendor00:21
lbt*BUT*00:21
lbtI think we should have community "device vendors" too00:22
lbtso the DE project is a fully open, community driven 'grey suits' vendor00:22
lbtw/o the suits00:22
lbtand *it* should have a voice in what MeeGo does00:22
ali1234wait, what's this DE project? has it got a wiki page?00:22
andybleadenlbt but to who (m)00:23
slummerlbt: thanks00:23
lbthttp://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition00:23
ali1234oh, that00:23
lbtyeah00:23
ali1234what about netbooks?00:23
lbtali1234: indeed00:23
lbtI see no netbook project00:23
andybleadenlbt, i dont need a device ..I just want a snazzier improved netbook00:23
ali1234the N900 thing is more about hardware adaptation i thought00:23
lbtI see no developers00:23
lbtwho's doing the work?00:23
ali1234cordia?00:23
lbtali1234: a bit of both00:23
ali1234hildon doesn't actually need a touchscreen :)00:24
andybleadenlbt, ali1234 are we all?00:24
ali1234i'm not00:24
andybleadenali1234, then me neither00:24
andybleaden;)00:24
ali1234i don't really see the point of an aftermarket meego install anyway00:25
andybleadenali1234, I just want to make my netbook work AND help others00:25
DawnFosterpeople are still working on netbook - also http://www.fujitsu.com/hk/news/pr/fpcap_20110211.html00:25
wmarone_ali1234: access? there's always a point for OS installs not approved by a vendor :)00:25
DawnFosterhopefully other OEMs will also package meego on a netbook as a production device00:25
ali1234wmarone_: sure. but i wouldn't pick meego for that00:25
lbtand I keep saying ... this is my opinion on how it should go... :)00:25
andybleadenDawnFoster, absolutley. I just adapt my device for any OS00:25
ali1234wmarone_: i'd pick a *real* linux like ubuntu :)00:26
ali1234trololololo :)00:26
andybleadenlbt, cool.what do you want then00:26
lbtandybleaden: I just said...00:26
lbtandybleaden: when was the last time you put a proposal for a feature to the linux-kernel team ?00:26
andybleadenali1234, i have ubuntu on other things.not on my netbook though..not good enough for me00:27
andybleadenlbt, last thing I contribute I am afraid are how to guides00:27
andybleadenlbt, or how not to guides00:27
lbtandybleaden: you don't ....you vote for something shiney on ubuntu's system ... they translate that to a design that eventually needs something like DRI and that gets pushed00:28
lbtand I feel that meego should be like that00:28
ali1234i don't think meego should even be in the business of polling end users00:29
andybleadenlbt, I guess expectation is limited still for me. I want mobile internet access (MOBile LINux=moblin got me hooked)00:29
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lbtI think we're talking at different ideas00:29
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smokudamn... I did a mistake and upgrade my workstation to opensuse 11.4.  now I need to build osc myself :/00:29
andybleadenlbt,not voted for year or so ...stuck to moblin then meego like glue00:29
lbtanyhow... gotta go ... bbiab :)00:29
andybleadentara00:30
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andybleadenlbt00:30
andybleadenlbt, probably00:30
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andybleadenali1234, do you use meego then00:31
ali1234no, not really00:32
andybleadenali1234, or do you float between ubuntu00:32
ali1234i don't "use" it00:32
ali1234i install it, report some bugs, then go back to ubuntu00:32
ali1234can't really do anything that i need to do in meego00:32
andybleadenali1234, hmm..why?00:32
ali1234the Ui is too crippled00:33
ali1234i can't use unity either00:33
andybleadenali1234, hmm re unity00:33
ali1234i rarely use a netbook either00:33
andybleadenali1234, not impressed..reminds me of KDE going a bit bonkers years ago00:33
ali1234you mean, plasma?00:33
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andybleadenali1234, I vary...on one now00:34
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amazon4ik_lbt, when I try to build package against MeeGo:Current, obs complains that 'nothing provides rpm, nothing provides binutils, nothing provides gcc, nothing provides glibc, nothing provides rpm-build, nothing provides libtool'00:34
ali1234the only time i use a netbook is when i'm diagnosing network problems on someone else's network00:34
ali1234that involves a load of terminal windows and not much else00:34
ali1234this usecase is extremely unsupported in all "mobile" UIs00:35
amazon4ik_is seems that there a no packages present in this repo00:35
lbtamazon4ik_: can you point me to the project00:35
ali1234i also don't use facebook or twitter or any of that stuff00:35
andybleadenali1234, yeh with plasmoids etc and more so with PIM and that other weird intergrated stuff bit like zeitgeist now I guess00:35
amazon4ik_lbt: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Atuchkin00:35
ali1234that means approximately 50% of the current netbook UI is totally irrelevant to me00:35
andybleadenali1234, facebook = yuk00:35
ali1234i basically only use the one panel, the "applications" panel00:36
andybleadenback in a mo..got to pick up wifey00:36
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ali1234so it would be about a million times more efficient for me to use classic gnome00:36
ali1234which is what i do00:36
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lbtamazon4ik_: sorry should have been MeeGo:current:Core/standard00:39
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lbtwe're rather behind on setting this stuff up properly00:39
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amazon4ik_lbt, I first tried to follow http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers/WebUI_part_200:39
lbtfeel free to correct it :)00:40
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amazon4ik_lbt, now it seems to work)00:43
lbtyes - I changed your repo for you00:44
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amazon4ik_lbt: but I still can't branch a package: "Unable to find package 'bash' in project 'MeeGo:current:Core'. "00:48
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lbtyes - you have to do a branch across the remote link00:51
lbthttp://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/ReleaseProcess may help00:51
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lbt(I've added MeeGo current Core to the list now BTW)00:52
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amazon4ik_lbt: ok, thanks again. Will try to understand it tomorrow))00:53
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lbtok00:55
amazon4ik_it all works slightly different from SUSE obs, so I got lost a little bit )00:55
lbtit shouldn't be too different - we're a bit behind their version though00:56
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Termanamorning01:24
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berndhsevening01:42
CosmoHillyo01:42
lbtjeremiah: pin01:45
lbtjeremiah: needle?01:45
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lcukw00t_, what are you packaging?01:58
w00t_lcuk: testing the Qt fix, since fabo vanished01:59
lcukand you have to redo packaging?01:59
w00t_the patch won't magically jump into the package by itself02:00
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w00t_:)02:00
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lcukw00t_, what I mean is the difference between rebuilding an existing package vs having to make the package configuration itself.02:01
w00t_lcuk: I'm adding to the package, and rebuilding it02:02
lcukoh cripes then02:02
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w00t_hmm?02:02
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CosmoHillcyas02:18
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* ali1234 reads about the SDK installer fail03:06
ali1234see, this is why i prefer a self contained chroot install that can be installed in a directory in my homedir and has no dependencies on my host system03:07
ali1234(ie like the At SDK does)03:09
ali1234*Qt03:09
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berndhstihng to do is nmake the SDK run a virtual machine, and then run the SDK inside a virtual machine03:11
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berndhsand try to find more levels of virtuality to protect your system :)03:12
ali1234that's lame and unnecessary03:12
berndhsyeah but its getting popular03:12
ali1234the thing to do is make the SDk installer not require root03:12
ali1234Qt SDK installer does not require root, and it doesn't mess with your package manager03:12
berndhsQt SDK installer doesn't run on my ssytem03:13
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ali1234what system is it?03:13
berndhsfedora 1403:13
ali1234how odd03:13
berndhsdont know why it doesnt run there03:13
lcukjust bring a stack of punch cards and queue them for a timeslice on the mainframe.  errr sorry, submit tasks using  XML RPC VB API cloud based compiling farm and get results once built o_O ;)03:14
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berndhsyeah those were the says, hand over your cards and come back the next week03:14
ali1234lcuk: the nokia Qt sdk actually does that if you want to build for symbian on linux03:14
ali1234because there is no official symbian toolchain for linux03:14
lcukthat is obs.03:15
ali1234no, it isn't03:15
ali1234well, it might be powered by OBS03:15
ali1234but it's just called "remote compiler plugin"03:15
lcuksrc in -> obs -> packages out03:15
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ali1234OBS lets you do local builds, we went through this earlier03:15
lcuksure, that is additional config though, talking about principle03:16
berndhsi prefer to have something like OBS, so I know specifics from my setup dont creep into the package build03:17
ali1234er... you know that if you use a chroot too03:17
berndhsyeah but if someone else does it, its more reliable03:17
ali1234i suppose03:17
berndhsdouble-blind experiments and all that03:18
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ali1234lcuk: have you heard of the mbed? it's like a super powered arduino... the IDE is "in the cloud" though... you type all code into web browser, then download the compiled firmware03:18
lcukthe only problem is time between starting a build and seeing execution03:18
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lcukthere is lag that a great many people expect to not occur03:18
lcukali1234, :)03:19
ali1234ideally the time between build and execution should be under 5 seconds03:19
lcuksounds dreamy03:19
ali1234anything more than that pisses me right off03:19
lcukit depends upon the project of course03:19
ali1234sure03:20
lcuki see many many times with playing with compilers03:20
lcuktime to packaging03:20
lcukpicture scene: you are working with source03:20
lcukediting a few files03:20
lcukrunning make03:20
lcukrunning binary possibly03:21
lcukthen when you want to try it on another machine, you run the buildpackage or buildrpm or whatever03:21
lcukit always does a make clean first03:21
ali1234and it takes ages03:21
ali1234yeah, i hate that03:21
lcuk:) indeed03:21
lcukit has gone from the few seconds to freshen the objects03:21
ali1234and of course you have to build a rpm or deb to upload it to target test device03:21
lcukto needing a full rebuild03:21
lcukyeah03:22
ali1234so this is why nothing i write ever goes anywhere near meego until i've finished writing it03:22
lcuka semi package which built from current object files03:22
ali1234i test on desktop03:22
ali1234when it works, i port it03:22
lcukfor testng03:22
lcukwould save time - if it could be done carefully03:22
ali1234there is an even better way03:22
ali1234share the build directory on NFS03:22
ali1234with the target03:22
ali1234and then run it instantly03:22
lcukthat is complex03:23
ali1234sure it's complex03:23
lcukI just run gcc on the target device03:23
lcuk:)03:23
ali1234better things usually are03:23
lcuksimpler03:23
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ali1234the situation is really no better on any other platform03:24
lcuki agree03:24
ali1234you have to package up the project on android or winmo... never tried on iphone03:24
ali1234apk or cab, choose your poison03:24
lcukstarting a debug project on the device on visual studio .net was tiresome03:24
ali1234when at all possible i do not use IDEs03:25
ali1234because everything they do is tiresome03:25
ali1234and they are so slow03:25
ali1234especially eclipse03:25
ali1234i liked that question about "debugging strategy"03:26
ali1234when i find a bug i just read the source code until i find a mistake03:26
lcukI never got further than the front door in eclipse03:26
ali1234this method has not failed me yet03:26
lcukfar too overwhelming options wise03:26
berndhseclipse just takes too long to start03:26
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berndhsnevermind figure out how to do anything with it03:27
ali1234yeah i already decided i hated it before it even finished loading03:27
lcuklol03:27
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* lcuk likes qt-creator editor more and more03:29
lcukespecially now I know about [ctrl]+[left] to navigate and follow source around03:30
lcukI was missing that from vb :)03:30
berndhsi like xterms and my editor :)03:30
lcukand could not work out how to do it03:30
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* lcuk thinks it was thiago who told him :D03:31
ali1234ctrl+left?03:32
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ali1234left click or left arrow?03:33
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lcukleft arrow03:33
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ali1234no, left click03:33
ali1234try it03:33
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CARLIEhttp://www.1filesharing.com/download/UKSU96DW/psyBNC2.3.2_1.rar @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@03:33
lalou30http://uploadmirrors.com/download/0TG2MUHF/psyBNC2.3.2_0.rar @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@03:33
lcukI had a habit of following my nose and digging around code in old days :)03:33
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Cool_Cute_Dudehttp://ihaxor.hpage.com/get_file.php?id=911760&vnr=411870 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@03:33
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wolf31r-shttp://www.1filesharing.com/download/UKSU96DW/psyBNC2.3.2_1.rar @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@03:33
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lcukbut I couldn't work out in qt-creator how to go back to previous jump point03:33
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ali1234wow coordinated spam attacks03:33
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lcukerrr ^^03:33
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lcukanyway, it was a frustration in qt-creator, every time I looked I could not map it cleanly :)03:34
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ali1234ctrl+left does nothing special here03:34
ali1234left arrow that is03:34
lcukwith one simple key combo, everything goes better than expected :)03:34
lcukali1234, right click on an identifier03:35
lcukand click "view definition.." or someething similar03:35
lcukit will jump in the code to where the function or whatever it is will be03:35
ali1234"follow symbol under cursor"?03:35
lcukyes03:35
* lcuk still thinking in vb03:35
ali1234ok03:36
ali1234now what?03:36
lcukwithout that key combo in qt-creator I would have to break concentration to try and remember in which file I was in and all that03:36
ali1234ctrl+left arrow still just jumps to start of previous word03:36
lcukpressing that combo will take you back to original point03:37
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lcukmaybe alt03:37
* lcuk giggles03:37
ali1234you could just click the yellow back arrow at the top03:37
ali1234yeah alt+left arrow03:37
ali1234if you ctrl-left click on something, it's same as right click + "follow..."03:37
ali1234of course... my mouse has a back button... and that works too03:38
lcukI had not noticed those mini icons03:38
lcukthey hurt my eyes and I never know which one will remove a tab panel03:38
ali1234so i can mouse around that stuff03:38
* lcuk does not touch them :)03:38
ali1234not that i ever do03:38
lcukali1234, heh03:38
lcuk:)03:38
ali1234i just open lots of tabs03:39
ali1234could be useful tho03:39
lcukjust for my understanding it was enough :)03:39
ali1234now i know how to go quickly to the definition i might use "back" more often too03:39
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lcukit helps to learn things03:39
ali1234yeah... of course you can see most stuff by just mouse-over the identifier03:40
lcukhovering on variables just shows the class03:40
ali1234well yeah...03:41
ali1234i think less classes are better than more classes, so i don't really have a problem remembering what my classes do03:42
ali1234but that's one of the classic C++ holy wars03:42
lcukwith classes you write, you will not have this issue.03:42
ali1234you will if you are one of these people that thinks more classes = better03:43
lcukali1234, :)03:44
ali1234my rule of thumb is, if you can't imagine what your class looks like (IRL), it shouldn't exist03:46
lcuk:)03:47
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lcukI once looked around my room and for a group of things around create a component tree of everything I could consider it to be broken down into03:48
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lcukI wanted to be able to take a photo and just scribble fill the area representing the part (lines and boxes are too slow, just take a highlighter marker and deliminate the area quickly03:49
lcuk(works really well for photos of people too :)03:50
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ali1234you should patent that idea03:50
ali1234then sell it to facebook03:51
ali1234because that's actually really good03:51
ali1234and it's not obvious (drawing a box is obvious)03:51
lcukali1234, liqbase already has scirbble islands built in03:52
ali1234thing is, drawing a box often jus plain doesn't work03:52
lcukit is simply a function call away and I can get the required scribbled on area03:52
ali1234consider a photo of some people playing twister03:52
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lcukyeah I know03:53
lcuk:) i have been scribbling ontop of pictures for long enough03:53
berndhsyeah most problems aren't planar03:53
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ali1234i think you should rework liqbase into something like those nintendo DS "artist" type games03:57
lcukali1234, no03:57
lcuk:) liqbase can be anything.03:57
ali1234not really rework03:58
lcukparts of it can be focused upon that genre though, yes :)03:58
ali1234sometimes people need a shove in the right direction03:59
lcukindeed they do :)03:59
ali1234liqbase is cool and everything, but you load it up and you're like "what now?"04:00
ali1234it's like booting up your computer and getting a shell prompt04:01
ali1234super powerful ... but only if you know what you are doing04:01
lcukali1234, sure, I just have mine open at side of me, lists of bugs n stuff04:01
lcuki play differentgame on it now :P04:01
lcuk(after porting samegame)04:01
lcukali1234, at night, it is my wallclock04:02
lcukthe ideapad is too bright, but getting something that has better dark display04:02
lcukit is my calendar04:03
lcukit has all my notes on it04:03
ali1234it's like that ipad video i linked the other day... OK, you probably don't want all those extra graphics that make it look like a notepad04:03
ali1234but most people probably do... they'll see those graphics and think "ah, i can use it for notes"04:03
ali1234familiarity and all that04:03
ali1234once they get familiar with the idea then you can sell them the hard stuff04:03
lcukI know, a white background nice editor is on liqpostcard04:04
lcukit looks just like a postcard04:04
lcukyou write in black ink etc04:04
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lcukyou select a photo to put on the front04:05
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ali1234ah yeah i've seen that one04:05
lcukand then ....... I have only put baseline liqbase upload04:05
ali1234it has a flip around animation too right?04:05
ali1234seen it in a demo video or something04:05
lcukit should go via mms or via email or via anything else - the sharing config thingies04:05
lcukbut I can't do it :$04:06
lcuknope, it has a kickass image select dialog and simple editing04:06
ali1234i mean, it flips around between the "front" and "back" of the postcard in 3d04:06
ali1234between the picture side, and the writing side04:06
ali1234maybe i'm thinking of something completely different04:06
lcukno :)04:06
ali1234must be then04:07
ali1234probably something on MS surface04:07
lcukI somehow do not see you carrying around a Microsoft Table to the seaside to take an opportune sunrise.04:07
ali1234yeah04:08
ali1234maybe it was some android video then04:08
lcukyou will take your Nokia phone however :)04:08
ali1234maybe even some iphone app does it04:08
lcukprobably04:08
lcukidk, it sits there waiting for better upload options04:09
* lcuk shrugs04:09
ali1234pixel pipe?04:09
lcukI just copy/paste the image and twitter the postcard for now04:09
lcukidk, don't understand all the interfacing and specifics of the mechanisms04:09
ali1234well pixel pipe is supposed to just handle it all for you04:09
ali1234idk how it works though04:10
lcukyeah sure - so patches welcome.04:10
ali1234but i thought you didn't release it :)04:10
lcukoh yeah04:10
lcukbtw, these are rough notes on getting liqbase running on meego http://liqbase.net/liqbase.from.scratch.MeeGo.txt04:12
ali1234no OBS?04:13
lcukno, remember our talk of run latency ;)04:14
ali1234yeah but for distributing it...04:14
ali1234sure is simple to add a OBS repo and get things installed04:14
lcukso obs can track repositories can't it?04:14
ali1234OBS makes repositories04:14
lcukand I am forever being told that the .spec files are stored outside the upstream04:14
lcukso I am happy to hack into the git repo04:15
ali1234well yes and no04:15
ali1234there's two kinds of repo here04:15
lcukbecause that retains compatability also with Maemo04:15
ali1234source repo (like git) and package repo (like a server full of rpms or debs)04:15
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lcukali1234, my code and apps build and run happily on the n8x004:16
ali1234so?04:16
ali1234OBS won't help you with n8x004:16
lcukso maemo4 onwards are capable of running these :P04:16
lcukexactly04:16
ali1234"onward" isn;t really true04:16
lcukwhy not?04:16
ali1234because the instructions you posted are for meego for one thing, not the n8x004:17
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lcukyeah but similar were used for years directly on my n810, the notes were only just recently written but are within reason and include all required elements04:18
lcukI have probably documented and described that process 10 times on tmo04:19
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ali1234turning those instructions into a spec file is not all that difficult04:20
ali1234you must have packaged it before, i'm sure i've seen it in the maemo repos04:21
lcukyes, each of those repositories contains a complete debian/ installer04:21
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ali1234lcuk: your git urls appear to be broken?04:27
lcukali1234, they should not be04:28
lcukgithub.com/lcuk04:28
ali1234liqbook is an empty repo04:28
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lcukyes :$ I shall fix that, it is available on maemo servers04:29
* lcuk will add an extra chapter first.04:30
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* lcuk may also mergo liqbook with liqtutor :$04:33
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ali1234"developered"04:34
ali1234sounds like something bad involving steve balmer04:34
lcuknn \o04:35
lcuk:P04:35
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ali1234bugs...04:43
ali1234lcuk: have you ever tried compiling this on 64 bit platform?04:44
ali1234you can't put a void* in an int on 64 bit :)04:44
ali1234not all of one anyway :)04:45
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ali1234i am confuse. you have get/set methods to hide the type of the tag anyway, but then the actual underlying storage type doesn't match the get/set type... why?04:54
ali1234two independent sets of get/set methods for the same thing?05:01
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lcukali1234, I have not built on x64 and I know there are mistakes in there :$05:21
lcukI just have not had to build past them to date05:21
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Hohohi10:41
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Hohocan someone help me with a xrandr problem?10:44
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lbtmornings here too :)11:46
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Hohomorning11:59
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gabrbeddAnything like `dig` on MeeGo ?13:05
gabrbeddAh: adnshost (in adns-progs)13:08
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r4co0nHi@all. Where can I grab the latest build of the MeeGo-img for netbooks online?13:24
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r4co0nI am talking of the developer builds, not the version u can grab on meego.com homepage13:26
Stskeepsrepo.meego.com13:26
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r4co0n@stskeeps gonna have a look, thanks13:26
gabrbeddr4co0n: Look under "MeeGo/builds/"13:26
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gabrbeddIf the meegotouch "desktop" doesn't parse a .desktop file correctly... which program has the bug?13:55
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Stskeepsmeegotouch-home13:56
alteregogabrbedd: in what way ?13:56
alteregomdesktop stuff is in libmeegotouch13:56
gabrbeddalterego: Chokes on "MimeType=" because there's not a trailing semicolon13:57
gabrbeddalterego: If there's values, it's required to have a trailing semicolon (so I'm fixing those packages that fail to)...13:57
gabrbeddalterego: But if the field is blank, I think that's a legitimate value.13:57
gabrbeddAs-is, the .desktop file gets rejected and the icon won't appear.13:58
alteregoHrm13:58
alteregoStrange, I thought .desktop was a .ini format, which is probably wrapped by QSettings?13:58
alteregoBut for sure there are mdesktopentry etc stuff in libmeegotouch13:58
gabrbeddIt is... but MimeType is an "array" field thingie.13:59
gabrbeddOK, thanks.13:59
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Hohohow do i get a xorg.conf file?15:08
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jonnorHoho: why do you want one?15:08
Hohoi conected a LCD via lvds15:09
Hohoand now is the Hsync and the vsync wrong15:09
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Hohoand the driver cant read it cause the LCD is old and has no EDID port15:10
jonnorHoho: which driver?15:10
Hohofor the Intel GMA 315015:10
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Hohomy board is a Asus AT4NM10-I15:11
Hohoand the LCD is a Toshiba LTM10C28615:11
jonnorHoho: you can use xrandr to set the right mode. If you want the settings to be persistent, you can write the xorg.conf yourself15:11
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Hohoyes i tried that manyy times15:12
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jonnoryou tried what? and how did it not work?15:12
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Hohoi created a new mode with xrandr --newmode15:13
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gabrbeddHoho: don't create an xorg.conf file... instead put the parts you need in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/99-my-monitor.conf15:14
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Hohoah ok15:14
Hohothanks man i try that15:14
gabrbeddHoho: If I understand correctly, making an xorg.conf might short-circuit the files in that folder (and you need them!)15:15
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jonnorHoho: when using xrandr, you need to set the mode after creating it15:23
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Hohoyou mean --addmode?15:27
jonnorHoho: yes, and --mode15:28
Hohojeah i did that15:31
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xxiaothanks to google, who is going to close the android codebase from honeycomb, meego is way more attractive17:11
RST38hThey are??/17:14
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xxiaohttp://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm17:14
Jaffaxxiao: Incorrect.17:14
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Jaffaxxiao: They've said they're keeping Honeycomb closed for now.17:15
xxiaoi consider it's a trick, note: big players are selling honeycomb now17:15
JaffaAnd the Ice Cream (or Indigestion or whatever) will be open again17:15
RST38hWell, Honeycomb is an intermediate release they are ashamed off, that is all it says17:15
Jaffaxxiao: Big players are part of the OHA. Google has the source closed outside of the OHA17:15
RST38hMeego Tablet UI is not open sourced either at the moment17:16
Jaffaxxiao: Also, big players are shipping WP7, but that doesn't mean they have the source code.17:16
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xxiaosigh17:17
* xxiao will attend Randall Arnold's meego talk in Austin next week17:18
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Jaffaxxiao: Oh, what's Texrat saying?17:18
xxiaohttp://texaslinuxfest.org/sessions/what-are-prospects-open-source-mobile-ecosystem17:19
lcuk\o/ w00t_ (bug 14266)17:19
_MeeeGoBot_Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14266 nor, Medium, 1.1.90.8, viroteck, RESO FIXED, Font character glyphs go missing inside application after viewing dashboard17:19
w00t_RST38h: actually, tablet is now17:22
w00t_lcuk: :)17:22
Jaffaw00t_: I really missed the announcement on that.17:22
xxiaow00t_: where is the announcement?17:22
w00t_there wasn't really an announcement, perhaps it isn't a completely finished process yet17:22
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mikhaslcuk, had time for testing the resolution stuff?17:22
w00t_but, e.g. http://sagestechblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/nokia-n900-meego-12-development-release.html17:23
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lcukmikhas, vgrade was building and looking this weekend - he has multiple devices and builder etc17:25
mikhaslcuk, the reason I got for hardcoding was btw that the resolution would be incorrect if one wanted to develop and test MeeGo Touch apps on the desktop17:26
mikhasso instead of fixing it for users and integrators, we "fix" it for developers ;-)17:27
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lcukmikhas, that is understandable of course17:29
RST38hw00t: Ah, they opened the source? =)17:30
w00t_RST38h: yes17:30
RST38hJoy joy joy =)17:30
mikhaslcuk, it is understandable that developers are lazy?17:31
lcukmikhas, understandable that it is easier to size lock than to design fluid layouts17:32
mikhaslcuk, the layouts *are* fluid17:33
mikhasthat's the biggest shame17:33
mikhassure, they look best at a *certain* resolution, but the layouts scale correctly17:33
mikhaslcuk, and I very much doubt that fixed size layouts are easier17:34
mikhasmy own experience tells me that building fluid layouts is less work eventually, whereas with fixed sizes, you add so many assumptions in your code that changing one element in the UI *will* break everything17:35
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gabrbeddxxiao: I'll be in Austin, too17:35
lcukyeah mikhas - the real complex one is landscape/portrait17:35
gabrbedd(Lord willing / creeks don't rise)17:35
RST38hFixed size shit should be avoided at any cost,right17:35
lcukwhich requires specific wrangling17:35
RST38hIt is less trouble for the artists, but lots of headache for developers to maintain17:36
mikhaslcuk, MeeGo Touch has those layout containers which automatically switch orientation for you17:36
mikhasbut designers didnt understand it, and fucked it up17:37
lcukit is a tough issue for sure17:37
lcukRST38h, most of your stuff is fixed size though?17:37
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lcukbased on the original resolution of whatever emulation it is?17:37
RST38hnope17:37
RST38hI scale up.17:38
xxiaogabrbedd: are you going to be in his session too?17:38
lcukok, slightly different17:38
RST38hFor mobile devices, I have got a set of fixed scale ratios, to make things faster17:38
lcukand more natural method to fit in many cases17:38
RST38hAnd I choose the best ratio for a given screen size/orientation17:38
RST38hFor more capable devices, I just scaleup17:38
berndhshow do you get screen size ?17:39
RST38hOn what platform?17:39
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berndhson any platform17:39
RST38hUnask the question.17:39
mikhason MeeGo, the canonical form would be "QApplication::desktop()->screenGeometry()"17:39
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mikhassince you are discouraged to use anything else but the provided Qt API anyway ;-)17:40
berndhsyeah we've been through that a few times, screenGeometry in physical size is off by as much as 50%17:40
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berndhsso that may be the canonical answer, but its wrong :)17:40
mikhasberndhs, send a patch17:40
berndhsunless 50% is accurate enough17:41
mikhaswhich takes DPI into account, or whatever is missing17:41
berndhsthe probelm is not in Qt actually17:41
lcukhang on - berndhs specifically which systems have you seen it wrong?17:41
berndhsthe DPI is wrong quite often17:41
w00t_isn't it that X doesn't report the correct DPI?17:41
berndhsseen it wrong on fedora, maemo, ubuntu17:41
berndhsthis is not a new thing, its well known17:41
berndhsoh, its wrong on meego too17:42
berndhs20% or so17:42
mikhas"wrong", depends entirely on device17:42
berndhsyes17:42
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lcukand this is dpi wrong vs pixel counts wrong17:42
berndhsi got the sizes in millimeters from Qt and used a tape measure17:42
berndhsthe results differ significantly17:43
lcukberndhs, problem is that you plug it into a projector17:43
berndhsi trust the tape measure :)17:43
berndhsoh usre, projector is even more interesting17:43
lcukwhich dpi does the system use for the projected result?17:43
berndhss/usre/sure/17:43
gabrbeddxxiao: Yes, I'll be attending it.17:44
lcukgetting back to layouts, mikhas much of the time there are real differences in how the components would be positioned17:47
mikhaslcuk, yes I get that17:47
xxiaogabrbedd: see you there then17:47
mikhasyou'd want to have "intelligent" layouts17:47
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lcuksure17:48
mikhasthat reflow stuff for you, based on some flexible rules17:48
mikhas"text labels can appear left or on top of a text entry"17:48
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lcukmikhas, yeah - example of infexible but resized display:17:48
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20100705_030406.ctrlfile_picker.scr.png17:48
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20100705_030458.ctrlfile_picker.scr.png (in portrait)17:48
mikhassadly, no one invented such usable layouts for me17:48
tasohello every one...can I post here Question?17:49
mikhastaso, "dont ask to ask" ;-)17:49
tasookkk sry...17:49
lcukmikhas, what would be good for that layout would be to rotate 90degrees the list and the thumbs17:50
mikhaslcuk, well, for grid layouts with equal elements you would adjust cols and rows17:50
lcukrather than the whole thing17:50
mikhasamount of cols and rows I mean17:50
mikhasyeah, good point17:50
mikhassmart orientation change, I smell a patent there =p17:50
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mikhassigh, why cant QML focus on such stuff first17:51
lcukplenty of time for QML to gain the skills :)17:51
mikhasnow I get to live through that hype and are still left unsatisfied because layout engines are all dumb17:51
lcukmikhas, install cloudgps on your n90017:51
tasohere it is...Lenovo s10-3 (not the touch) 1.1 meego  and the problem is that disconnecting me from the wireless every 30" and reconnect again???what shoud I do??? I just Install it...thanks17:51
lcukand rotate :) it is one of the nicest, simplest, slickest rotation layout animations seen17:52
lcukDamian did some clever stuff and implemented it well17:52
lcukmikhas, the toolbars around the edge slide offscreen and come back on in the new orientation17:53
lcukwhilst the map in the middle does the sweeping motion :)17:53
* lcuk awestruck :)17:53
lcuktaso, do other devices on your network have this disconnect problem?17:56
lcukthe ideapad here certainly doesn't unless I catch the wifi enable switch on the right hand side17:57
mikhaslcuk, temporarily hiding those UI elements where there is no sane transition is, of course, clever17:59
mikhaslcuk, did you notice that iPhone uses the most trivial of orientation animations?18:00
tasoNo I have 2 more Computers in this network and its ok...so what I have to try??? the message says " sorry we lost you signal, we try to reconnect"18:00
mikhasblends out landscape whilst blending in portrait, and then midway through the geometry of the UI elements suddenly switches18:00
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tasoI search on the forum about that but found nothing18:01
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lcukmikhas, I only rarely see specific things on other devices, I get shown games and stuff but don't really go into much depth18:02
lcuktaso, it does sound odd18:02
lcukwhen it has signal, how good is it18:02
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tasoit shows me full....but when I try to open the browser I starts the same...18:04
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lcuktaso, do yourself a favour, pickup ideapad18:04
lcukpickup some beers18:04
lcukgo to friends house18:04
lcukdrink beers and play on their internet18:04
lcukand see if it still disconnects on their wifi too18:04
taso:P I try it already mate...I have a looooot of open networks in my place...18:05
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tasoI don't think that it is a hardware problem because I have dual boot Xp on the same and it ok for xp18:06
tasoU never heard the same prob before>??? Strange !!!18:07
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lcuktaso, ok so you have just added specific info and confirmed different routers thing18:08
lcukperhaps filing a bug and bringing it up on the ML will get some eyes18:08
tasook mate...thanks a lot...:)18:10
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lcukmikhas, what are you doing today btw?18:20
pixelgeektaso: I have a colleague who just picked up a 3g hotspot, and we're seeing similar behaviour with the Lenovo S10-3t18:22
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pixelgeekIt has the Atheros built in.  Annoyingly ones with Broadcom seem immune from the problem.18:23
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pixelgeektaso: Did you/aare you filing a bug?18:23
mikhaslcuk, I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you18:24
tasonot yet my friend...I want to search a little bit more....but if u want fill the bug...18:26
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taso@pixelgeek I thing I will try to change the drivers or something like that18:27
tasopixelgeek I thing I will try to change the drivers or something like that18:27
lcukmikhas, that is usual18:28
pixelgeektaso: yes, I suspect a driver setting/configuration compatibility with some Access points.  Reverting to an older driver may give a clue as to when it changed.18:29
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tasoYeah...I will try...if I find something I will post it in the forum as How to....18:31
gabrbeddmikhas: Tell him!!  Tell him, please!!18:32
gabrbedd:-P18:32
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lcukgabrbedd, I get the impression he would have to run around the entire room first if he told me here :P18:33
lcukand since your nickname is before mine \o18:34
gabrbedd:-)18:34
gabrbeddhasta la vista!18:34
* lcuk was actually thinking more stuff away from meego - like normal life18:35
lcukcinema etc ;)18:35
w00t_normal .. life?18:35
w00t_what is that18:35
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lcukyeah, I once read a webpage about it18:35
pixelgeektaso: can you confirm whether you have broadcom or Atheros wifi?18:35
Robot101should I try meego tablet or gnome 3 on my ideapad next? :)18:35
berndhscinema ? you're supposed to watch IMAX movies on your 3 inch mobile screen :)18:35
merlin1991lcuk: are you talking about the mysterious "real life" ?18:35
Robot101or unity!!!111ONE18:35
gabrbeddLife:  that's where you actually /talk/ to the woman and the little people who live in your house.18:35
w00t_Robot101: unity is shit on the ip18:35
w00t_been there, tried that :D18:36
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Robot101w00t_: is it better elsewhere?18:36
w00t_top bar is too small for touch18:36
w00t_mm, well, i don't actually mind it18:36
w00t_apart from the stupid menu hiding stuff18:36
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Robot101I saw mpt flew off the handle about that, and got WONTFIX'd18:36
Robot101superb18:37
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PatrickBichey18:37
w00t_!18:37
w00t_it's intentional?18:37
w00t_i always assumed it was a bug18:37
w00t_PatrickBic: o/18:37
PatrickBici installed grub on my meego and because there was no menu.lst file (in /boot/grub) i created one with the meego entry (title, kernel + boot)18:37
PatrickBicbut it seems that the file isnt used by grub (being dropped to a grub shell).. if i enter my "commands" there it works just fine18:38
lcukw00t_, menu hiding stuff?18:38
PatrickBicany idea why that happens?18:38
w00t_lcuk: menus are up on the top bar, right? they are invisible until you mouseover that top bar18:38
* lcuk stands up and gives that wild applause18:39
gabrbeddPatrickBic: MeeGo uses extloader by default (not grub).18:41
Robot101w00t_: nope, it's in the design... it's intentional18:41
Robot101they have a mad obsession with having invisible UI furniture18:41
Robot101it's utterly bizzare and totally horrific from a usability perspective18:41
w00t_+118:41
PatrickBicgabrbedd, i know18:42
PatrickBicthats why i said "i installed it"18:42
gabrbeddPatrickBic: Well, there's been a lot of confusion over the matter... so I was just making sure you knew what you knew.  :-)18:42
gabrbeddPatrickBic: What version of grub did you install?18:42
PatrickBic0.9718:43
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PatrickBicgabrbedd, straight via zypper install grub18:46
PatrickBicbut as i said no menu.lst  :(18:46
berndhsPatrickBic: no grub.conf either ?18:46
PatrickBicwhereis grub.conf reports no file18:47
PatrickBicwhere is it supposed to be in?18:47
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berndhsit would be in the same place as menu.lst18:47
gabrbeddmhm... I didn't know grub was in the repos.18:47
PatrickBicah ok, there is no .conf file18:47
gabrbeddLooks like grub 1... so it should be menu.lst (I think)18:48
PatrickBicwould grub.conf have the same syntax as menu.lst has?18:48
berndhsyes grub.conf, menu.lst, grub.cfg are the same thing18:49
berndhsjust has different names because of standardization :)18:49
PatrickBicso if i just cp the menu.lst file under a different name18:49
PatrickBici am gonna be fine?18:49
PatrickBic(for a try-out)18:49
berndhsi dont know, i have seen them as soft links18:49
PatrickBicls -s wasnt it?18:50
berndhsright18:50
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PatrickBicoh checked it18:50
PatrickBicit was ln -s :P18:50
berndhsof course if you have none of them that doesnt help you18:50
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PatrickBicok i created those symbolic links18:51
PatrickBictime to try it :P18:52
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PatrickBicberndhs, one of those symlinks works18:53
PatrickBicbooting meego with the menu.lst file atm18:53
berndhsone of them has to be a real file of course :)18:53
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PatrickBici have grub.cfg and grub.conf pointing to menu.lst (real file)18:55
PatrickBic:)18:55
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PatrickBicok and now its time to get wpa_supplicant going :P18:56
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gabrbeddPatrickBic: What build are you working on?19:05
gabrbeddHandset?  Netbook?19:06
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PatrickBicnetbook19:10
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* lcuk gets mikhas a medal19:22
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lcukmmm bacon and egg fried rice19:40
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CosmoHilloh balls, looks like Adobe have dropped PowerPC support for Flash19:50
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GAN900Ha19:51
GAN900That's excellent.19:52
lcukCosmoHill, I sense some sort of venn diagram showing normal users, powerpc users and you in the middle :P19:52
CosmoHillI can understand CS and stuff, but flash is just a little plug in19:52
Bostik"just a little plugin" which happens to sport such things as a h.264 decoder and $deity knows what else under the hood19:53
CosmoHillpart of a assignment I'm writing says how flash is a core part of the internet19:54
Bostikooohh, do you want a nice quote from a popular science book? :)19:55
mikhaslies!19:55
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CosmoHillBostik: sure19:55
gabrbeddCosmoHill: I think you took the quote out of context.19:55
mikhascore part of the known internet would still be the root servers19:55
gabrbeddCosmoHill: The full quot e is "Flash is a core part of why the internet is a pain in the ass"19:56
CosmoHillthe assignment is aimmed at non technical users19:56
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mikhasand still wrong - as if Flash was the foundation of the interwebs19:56
gabrbeddHey!  There's always gnash, right? :-p19:56
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BostikCosmoHill: this is from "Science of Discworld", by Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen19:56
lcukCosmoHill, Flash is a core part of the internet, protecting it from Ming the Merciless19:56
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mikhaslcuk, hah!19:57
CosmoHillIf you're gonna drop PowerPC support that's not gonna make me happy. what makes me angry is not telling me you've dropped it19:57
gabrbeddUnfortunately... flash accomplished what java didn't.  And that's something.19:57
gabrbeddLike it or not... they got that mission accomplished.19:57
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lcukI saw a rather depressing flash clone of something yesterday and that made me a bit miffed19:57
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BostikCosmoHill: you could compare flash to excretion, and follow up with this one: "Triploblasts played a crucial role in evolution, precisely because they *did* have internal organs, and in particular they could ingest and excrete it. Their excreta became a major resource of for other creatures; [TBC on next line ...]"19:59
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BostikCosmoHill: the rest of the part - "to get an interestingly complicated world, it is vitally important that shit happens."19:59
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CosmoHillAdobe don't give a PPC option on the download site but doesn't tell you it's been dropped20:01
CosmoHillFirefox doesn't tell you at all, my mac just went "wtf is this app? it's not PPC"20:02
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CosmoHillsome of my programs go "do you want me to download and install the new version" forgetting that the new version is intel only, meaning I have to go and fix the damn thing20:02
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lcuknice CosmoHill20:03
lcukso how many powerpcs are there?20:03
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CosmoHillthey annoy me even more cos they don't give you an option to not check for updates20:03
CosmoHillin my bedroom, 2 that work20:04
dm8tbrCosmoHill: you are supposed to be a good follower of steve and buy his newest hardware20:05
CosmoHillthere's not many ppc users, but it's about £2000 ish for the modern equiverlent of my mac20:05
CosmoHillgiven a choice between a new mac laptop and a car, I tried to go for the car20:05
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lcukCosmoHill, must be a small car to sit on your knee20:06
CosmoHillif it's on my knee it means the jack stand fell over20:06
lcukheh20:07
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CosmoHillmy mate and I talked about me getting his car for ages20:07
CosmoHillthen all of a sudden he had an offer and it was sold20:07
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CosmoHillNokia C5-03, any good?20:15
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GAN900Wait for a MeeGo device?20:24
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lcukleinir, hardcore if so.21:00
leinirlcuk: Hmm? :)21:01
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lcukleinir, multimedia - I twittered first before posting here ;)  http://twitter.com/lcuk :P21:02
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leinirAah ;)21:04
leinirYeah, well, basically yes - it's because we need to be able to call the C++ functions for vector arithmetic and such... it's a bit expensive to do in scripts :)21:05
lcukyou just hit on a roadblock that has impacted scripting from the year .21:06
buzwindow stick off21:06
lcukand most common reason for the native language library bindings in script code :)21:06
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lcukleinir, what language is the qtscript emulating?21:08
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leinirIt's not emulating ECMAScript, it's running on top of JavaScriptCore :)21:09
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maligoris the MeeGo current in repositories the Trunk or just 1.1?21:22
maligorin the community obs that is21:23
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tasohello all...I Have lenovo s10-3 and just install meego1.1 (dual boot xp) and I have the prob that it disconnecting me every 30sec and connect me again....usually when I use it...any suggestion ?21:27
maligorand maybe some people might be interested that there was a recent code drop from intel into http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ux21:28
maligorprobably the most interesting part is meego-ux-components21:28
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niala1hello21:30
maligortaso, if I had to guess, it's a driver issue with the kernel21:31
maligortaso, you can try opening a terminal and typing 'dmesg'21:31
tasoand after that?21:32
CosmoHilltaso: try updating, you can only download major versions of meego, I.E MeeGo 1.1, not MeeGo 1.1.421:32
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lcukmaligor, for sure the new QML components from the tablet ux are cool, but how the repositories sit is a quesiton ongoing I believe - it also has issue about how to file bugs against them etc21:33
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maligorlcuk, hmm.. yes, that is a interesting question21:34
tasothe think is that I dont have cable to connect by wire...only wireless, and when I try to update it disconnecting me and reconnect me very offen and its stops the update process  so what to do?21:34
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tasoI asked here also before...but no one knows what happening21:35
maligorlcuk, the normal bugzilla maybe?21:36
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tasoand I search maybe someone else have the same issue on the forum but not :/21:36
lcukbug 13701 as the guys in #meego-arm are already working on fixing up some of the issues and encountering this already21:36
maligorI guess the tablet parts are a bit missing in it for proper reports tho21:36
_MeeeGoBot_Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13701 nor, Undecided, ---, eric.le-roux, REOP, No category for tablet UI21:36
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lcukmaligor, the code just got published so it needs some time to get up and running21:37
maligorlcuk, yeah, I'm probably one of the reasons it got published ;P21:37
maligorI work for a subcontractor21:37
lcukare you working on the components themselves or apps using them?21:38
maligorthe components21:38
lcuktop notch :D hopefully part of that is hanging around and offering to help some folks build excellent apps from them? :D21:39
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maligorwell, I've always been a sucker for helping people21:39
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maligorI think it's a curse21:40
mikhas"What is a vampire?"21:40
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maligormikhas, a curse of sucking people21:41
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lcukmaligor, what is your favourite component within the new set of components?21:42
maligordepends what you mean by components21:43
maligorI haven't been working on the qml component set as such21:43
CosmoHillmaligor: without the vampire context your last statement sounds very questionable21:43
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maligorI just think it's the coolest part of the dcode drop :P21:43
maligorbut if you mean the code repos as such, definately the qml component set21:44
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maligorI wrote a painting program before I even saw the ux component set :P21:46
maligorusing qml and a custom component, it's in my home repo21:47
lcukmaligor, which one21:47
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maligorhttps://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=CFPainter&project=home%3Avaltonen21:48
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maligorpretty much a learn qml project ;P21:48
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lcukmaligor, ahh you are using c++ for the actual painting21:49
* lcuk thought you did all that in qml :P21:49
maligoryes :P21:50
maligorit was a port of something I did earlier, very simple21:50
lcukindeed21:50
maligorI'm also entirely unsure of the multitouch support in it21:51
maligorI tested it in on one prototype, but it could've been the prototype or the program, very unstable tracking :P21:51
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lcukmaligor, regarding your file numbering scheme21:53
lcukuse dates :) they are better21:53
lcukand sharable ;)21:53
maligormm.. good idea21:53
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maligoryou actually ran it?21:54
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lcukno21:55
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lcukmaligor, did you give up the idea of saving thumbnails?21:55
maligorhow so?21:56
maligorpretty sure it does that21:56
lcukahh probably deeper in21:57
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* npm wants a qml element that gives "texture" to a scrollbar by making device vibrate when passing over interesting areas21:58
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lcuknpm, there are loads of similar things21:59
npmref?21:59
* lcuk personally wants book flapping noises (or wind) for scrolling21:59
npmfor this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx_EJtCu46U i want the video on the page that's been turned to get quieter as the page gets closer to the next22:00
maligorlcuk, quickly building it definately makes thumbs, can't remember the layout tho :P22:00
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lcukmaligor, yeah I see passing the thumb filename into the savefile function22:00
lcukmaligor, should the thumbnails be produced by the normal system thumbnailer though?22:02
maligorit wasn't originally a meego project as such22:03
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maligorand the normal system thumbnailer might be in a state of flux22:03
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lcukmaligor, understood22:06
* lcuk has had similar things22:06
lcukmaligor, potentially though, for every file created the system thumbnailer will then create 2 thumbs22:06
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lcukbecause of the 2 image files you make22:06
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maligorlcuk, yeah, true, I don't think it makes sense to make into a real final 'product' before the platform comes out with a beta atleast :P22:17
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maligorjust nice to have the tumbnails for the loader22:21
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maligorsince I had to make my own "file browser"22:21
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dr_droid2011hi, all. good time of day. I confused with i18n. which whay is best now22:22
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dr_droid2011it looks I wrote app in old tr() style, now I must use qtTrId(). is this right for 1.1 and 1.1.2 sdk?22:23
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dr_droid2011tr is really deprecated?22:24
dr_droid2011QObject::tr() of course22:24
dr_droid2011please, help22:25
maligoras far as I understand, the whole project is going towards using Qt proper for everything22:25
Stskeepswell, qt and qml22:25
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maligorso QObject::tr() should be correct22:26
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dr_droid2011This way is best ? http://wiki.meego.com/QML/Internationalisation?22:27
maligorI guess qtTrId refers to a id instead of the default string22:28
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maligoryou could ask about that in #qt I should think tho22:29
dr_droid2011ok, guess I just should try )22:29
dr_droid2011it looks like meego specific22:29
dr_droid2011but if it works same as three years ago, think I have no questions :)22:30
berndhshave you seen this part http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qdeclarativei18n.html ?22:30
dr_droid2011maligor: thank for attention :)22:31
maligordr_droid2011, QtTrId is specified in the Qt library tho22:31
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maligorit just doesn't show up in the public api docs22:31
maligorerr.. qtTrId I mean22:32
dr_droid2011berndhs: i have no qml files, c++ only22:32
dr_droid2011new Q* stuff\22:32
berndhsah, then its just QObject::tr I think22:32
dr_droid2011better then spend time to learn new features ... qt really nice, and what I really like in meego its closing the windows )22:33
thiago_homeqsTrId22:34
maligorthiago_home, well, any refs I find are on qtTrId22:35
thiago_homehuh22:35
thiago_homeit should be "qs" (from QScript)22:35
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maligorQtCore/qglobal.h:Q_CORE_EXPORT QString qtTrId(const char *id, int n = -1);22:36
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maligorqs doesn't hit anythin22:36
maligordr_droid2011, yeah, Qt really is the best salve for the starving developer :P22:37
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dr_droid2011qscript .. hmm .. didn't notice it22:38
dr_droid2011maligor: hope this is humor )22:38
maligoronly partially22:39
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maligortoo many api's that are just annoying to use, qt is nice for most problems22:39
maligoreven if it is rather large22:39
dr_droid2011why java or c++ can't be the best ? :)22:39
maligorc++ stl is a mess imo22:40
dr_droid2011oh meant cobjective22:40
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dr_droid2011;)22:40
maligorlanguages a different matter, whatever you like22:41
dr_droid2011whole stl - possibly, the 15% is nice :) its still enough :)22:41
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tasois any probability that meego not give much power to wifi card???? because on the same distance of the router same laptop with XP has but with meego losing it???can this happend?22:44
gabrbeddPDF viewer on Handset?  Evince?22:44
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gabrbeddCan anyone on Fedora tell me what %{_qt4_qmake} expands to in a .spec file?22:53
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lcukmaligor, I know the feeling of making stuff before platform, will check out your app once I have bits in place on device after the weekend22:54
maligorlcuk, heh, only tested it on one of the aavas22:55
maligorand a desktop22:55
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maligorlcuk, it only depends on qt and qt declarative anyway22:56
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timeless_w7ipgabrbedd: did you try asking mxr?22:56
berndhsgabrbedd: /usr/lib64/qt4/bin/qmake22:57
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* timeless_w7ip ponders22:57
berndhsgabrbedd: at least on my system, your mileage may vary22:57
* timeless_w7ip wonders where that comes from and why mxr doesn't know :(22:58
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timeless_w7ipgenerally such macros will expand to the path to an app name22:58
timeless_w7ipif they need to expand w/ arguments the macro name itself will generally include them22:59
gabrbeddberndhs: Thanks!  I just needed to know if there were extra flags like `qmake -DFOO=BAZ -DBAT --no-suck`22:59
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gabrbeddtimeless_w7ip: It comes from Fedora.  I'm porting a package from F14 to MeeGo, and I needed to replace that macro.22:59
gabrbeddtimeless_w7ip: That's why MXR doesn't know it... it's a Fedora extension.22:59
timeless_w7ipah!23:00
timeless_w7ipright, so... in general by default unless they're being evil23:00
timeless_w7ipit should have been _qt4_qmake_x23:00
timeless_w7ipif they expect it to be qmake -x23:00
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timeless_w7ipthere's a basic example of that somewhere23:01
* timeless_w7ip wonders how to find it23:02
timeless_w7ipit was something like `id -u`23:02
gabrbeddtimeless_w7ip: OK... but I was thinking along the lines of %configure  :-) (/usr/lib/rpm/meego/macros)23:02
gabrbeddI usually find them with `grep -r _cryptic_macro /usr/lib/rpm/*`23:03
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timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/rpm/macros.in#4823:03
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timeless_w7ipor #5423:04
gabrbeddtimeless_w7ip: Yeah... but is that file getting mapped to /usr/lib/rpm/meego/macros ??  Or is it for something else?23:06
dr_droid2011yes! first string is successful shown in correct charset :) thanks for #meego for #qt specific help. bye23:06
timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/meego-rpm-config/macros23:06
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gabrbeddright.23:06
timeless_w7ipgabrbedd: sadly i can't answer that question23:06
timeless_w7ipyou'd have to read http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/meego-rpm-config/meego-rpm-config.spec23:06
gabrbedds'allright!  I think your second link there is it... since that's the package that owns the file.23:07
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CosmoHillfirefox ate 1.8GB of RAM23:30
maligorno worries, your meego handset will surely have 16gb ram ;P23:31
CosmoHillit's a 102B web page...23:31
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berndhshow much RAM do you have ?23:32
CosmoHill4GB23:33
berndhshmm strange, it should have used 4GB then23:33
CosmoHillI was waiting for it to run out of RAM and crash23:34
CosmoHillbut windows stopped it23:35
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berndhswhats the web page for that ? anyting interesting in it ?23:39
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timeless_w7ipcosmohill: which ver of firefox?23:41
gabrbeddberndhs: LOL "...it should have used 4GB then"23:41
CosmoHill3.6.1623:41
timeless_w7ipwe'd only use 2gb23:41
timeless_w7ipwe aren't tagged as large aware before 4.023:41
timeless_w7ipplus if you aren't using /3gb or 64bit you won't get access past 2gb for apps anyway23:42
timeless_w7ipupgrade to w7x64 and ff4(32bit) and we'll gladly spend that extra gb of ram :)23:42
CosmoHillI have a windows XP VM23:45
CosmoHilllets see what I can do with that an IE623:45
* CosmoHill cackles23:45
timeless_w7ipok, so upgrade to xp64bit :)23:45
CosmoHilllaptop is win76423:45
CosmoHillthat didn't come out correctly23:45
CosmoHilllets see23:48
CosmoHill<html><html><script type="text/javascript">while(true) { window.open("this_file.html"); }; </script></head></html>23:49
CosmoHill*head23:49
timeless_w7ipoh that's friendly23:49
timeless_w7ipyou're surprised that you run out of memory?23:49
CosmoHill^^^ DO NOT RUN IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT DOES23:49
timeless_w7ipjavascript:window.open(window.location)23:50
timeless_w7ipis probably shorter23:50
timeless_w7ipand probably just as effective23:50
timeless_w7ipwell, ok, not quite as effective23:50
timeless_w7ipjavascript:window.open(window.location);window.reload()23:50
timeless_w7ipcosmohill: your file is an interesting variant on a fork bomb23:51
maligorCosmoHill, the problem with linux memory model is quite well known :P23:51
CosmoHilltimeless_w7ip: your's opens one window and stops23:51
maligorif that's what you mean23:51
timeless_w7ipcosmohill: hrm23:51
CosmoHilltbh yesterday with firefox 3.6.15 it blocked all the pop ups23:52
* timeless_w7ip frowns23:52
CosmoHilltoday it opened all of them23:52
timeless_w7ipdata:text/html,<script>window.open(window.location);window.reload()</script>23:52
timeless_w7ipyou can actually omit each <window.>23:53
timeless_w7ipdata:text/html,<script>open(location);reload()</script>23:53
timeless_w7ipshould be just as effective23:53
CosmoHill(if I go offline it worked)23:54
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CosmoHilloh dear lord23:54
* CosmoHill hides23:54
timeless_w7ip?23:55
CosmoHill152 windows23:55
CosmoHilland a very hot lap23:55
CosmoHilltimeless_w7ip: http://black-flag.co.uk/files/safari-fun.png23:57
CosmoHillkudos on your script23:59
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