| ali1234 | is what? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| lcuk | Software patents. where are they hiding? 13:53 16th December, 2008 http://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/219641 | 00:02 |
| lcuk | (written by me a few years ago) | 00:03 |
| timeless_w7ip | lcuk: really? | 00:03 |
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| timeless_w7ip | _meeegobot_ didn't say it was resolved (it said NEW) | 00:03 |
| _MeeeGoBot_ | timeless_w7ip: Sorry, I've no idea what 'didn't say it was resolved (it said NEW)' might be. | 00:03 |
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| lcuk | timeless_w7ip, | 00:03 |
| lcuk | kredz 2011-03-22 13:23:01 PDT | 00:03 |
| lcuk | Fixed in commit c5448013. | 00:03 |
| lcuk | last comment on the bug | 00:03 |
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| timeless_w7ip | lcuk: that's a comment not a state change | 00:03 |
| timeless_w7ip | see the Status: field | 00:03 |
| lcuk | sure, but it is not being patterballed - someone has said it is fixed | 00:03 |
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| lcuk | when the fix emerges is another issue | 00:04 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: to answer that question, you should NOT do any patent research, because if you do, damages get tripled for knowingly infringing | 00:04 |
| timeless_w7ip | lcuk: yeah, i was pleasantly surprised by that | 00:04 |
| lcuk | ali1234, and I have not done :) | 00:04 |
| lcuk | hence "* lcuk will not do the leg work" | 00:04 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, I write code not pieces of paper describing code | 00:04 |
| ali1234 | code decribing pieces of paper no less | 00:05 |
| lcuk | :) | 00:05 |
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| javispedro | I guess miguel made his remark after today's multiple patent-related news | 00:06 |
| lcuk | hold on | 00:06 |
| lcuk | hmm | 00:07 |
| lcuk | I cannot see @lcuk tweets in my timeline | 00:07 |
| phl0x81 | hm, silly question, but how to switch off the tablet version? (except pressing the powerbutton) | 00:07 |
| Robot101 | ali1234: actually if lcuk's tweets were in reply to miguels, rather than just being @miguel, then clicking any one of them would show the entire conversation between them | 00:09 |
| Robot101 | ali1234: need to click the "reply" button on the website to do that | 00:09 |
| Robot101 | (it looks like it just fills @foo in the form, but it actually also submits a pointer to the tweet you're replying to) | 00:10 |
| ali1234 | i know | 00:10 |
| Robot101 | so yeah, its crap, but it's not /quite/ as bad as you make out :P | 00:10 |
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| lcuk | :O miguel has blocked me | 00:10 |
| ali1234 | if you click on the "in reply to on a tweet" it sends you off to the tweet it was a reply to | 00:10 |
| ali1234 | then you click again | 00:10 |
| ali1234 | and it takes you to the tweet *that* was a reply too | 00:10 |
| lcuk | :'( cannot follow him | 00:11 |
| ali1234 | and so on and so on, until you find that someone didn't use reply, then you are at a dead end | 00:11 |
| lcuk | I was 30 mins ago | 00:11 |
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| ali1234 | you should have asked him if mono is irrelevant :/ | 00:11 |
| ali1234 | that would have been sure to earn an instant block | 00:11 |
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| javispedro | lol | 00:12 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, I could understand it if I was saying something bad about his stuff, but I just added him to the contributors list! | 00:12 |
| RST38h | Where is de Icaza now, anyway? | 00:13 |
| ali1234 | that screen shot *does* look like ass though | 00:13 |
| RST38h | Still working on Mono? | 00:13 |
| ali1234 | i mean you could have picked a better one | 00:13 |
| w00t_ | RST38h: on twitter! :P | 00:13 |
| ali1234 | it's not just the drawing either, the colour scheme is... well, random? | 00:13 |
| lcuk | ali1234, it is meego | 00:14 |
| ali1234 | no it isn't | 00:14 |
| lcuk | it is the meego background | 00:14 |
| ali1234 | the background isn't the problem | 00:14 |
| ali1234 | it's the clashing primary colours all over the foreground | 00:14 |
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| lcuk | how would you do it? | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | i would use less different colours | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | i mean fewer | 00:15 |
| lcuk | ok, reasonable indeed | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | i wouldn't use green and blue and yellow and purple | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | and red | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | i cn't find that video i'm looking for | 00:16 |
| ali1234 | it was basically liqbase but in like 1986 | 00:16 |
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| ali1234 | lcuk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IutB8sJ83Q | 00:17 |
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| ali1234 | that's nothing like what i'm trying to find but it does have "nice" graphics | 00:18 |
| lcuk | ali1234, well I am not style concious in any way | 00:18 |
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| ali1234 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sTgLYH8qWs&playnext=1&list=PLB782DA1AE8ACD7C8 | 00:21 |
| ali1234 | bet that's patented to hell and back | 00:21 |
| * lcuk does not bet | 00:21 | |
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| lcuk | ali1234, if you find anything useless send me a mail or twitter me, bbl | 00:23 |
| lcuk | s/useless/useful/ | 00:25 |
| infobot | lcuk meant: ali1234, if you find anything useful send me a mail or twitter me, bbl | 00:25 |
| javispedro | everything is patented | 00:30 |
| javispedro | which is the point miguel was probably trying to make. | 00:30 |
| ali1234 | yup | 00:31 |
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| CosmoHill | hey MeeGoExperts1 | 01:26 |
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| lbt | *shrug* CosmoHill :D | 01:30 |
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| CosmoHill | you get used to it | 01:31 |
| CosmoHill | Hello! *user has disconnected* :( | 01:31 |
| MeeGoExperts | Hi. Sorry, just had to get rid of the 1 ... | 01:31 |
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| CosmoHill | I think I've proved my point | 01:31 |
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| merlin1991 | CosmoHill: haz zeh haxx, h3 c4n ch4ng3 h!s n!ck | 01:32 |
| MeeGoExperts | Hows things ? | 01:32 |
| merlin1991 | :D | 01:32 |
| CosmoHill | normally fine if I don't think about X, Y or guy | 01:32 |
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| berndhs | nokia needs to spend some of the $7B on better servers, loading their SDK retries too much | 01:38 |
| wmarone_ | I think they'l go the other way instead | 01:39 |
| rohanpm | what's the other way? spend some of the $7B on taking servers down? | 01:39 |
| * alterego wonders how many phones have multiple modems .. | 01:41 | |
| alterego | Do dual SIM phones have two modems? | 01:41 |
| alterego | Or some kind of multiple sim interface? | 01:41 |
| ali1234 | both types exist | 01:41 |
| CosmoHill | I was gonna say, can't see the point of having two modems for a single sim | 01:41 |
| alterego | m'kay | 01:41 |
| alterego | I'll implement multiple modems into my dialer then. | 01:42 |
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| Termana | morning | 01:47 |
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| lcuk | alterego, i thought dualsim phones switched outside the main ui basically, or can you just choose whilst in a call? | 01:50 |
| CosmoHill | hmm | 01:51 |
| CosmoHill | some of my contacts have addresses stored, so why can't I open them on ovi maps? | 01:51 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, which phone? | 01:52 |
| CosmoHill | Nokia 6220 Classic | 01:52 |
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| timeless_w7ip | ovi maps is "special" | 01:55 |
| timeless_w7ip | try google maps? | 01:55 |
| CosmoHill | that uses the interent which I have to pay for | 01:55 |
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| timeless_w7ip | ... | 01:58 |
| CosmoHill | I'm on pay as you go | 01:58 |
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| digilife | Hi | 06:18 |
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| wassupnari | Stskeeps : hello, are you on line? | 08:36 |
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| Stskeeps | wassupnari: yeah, just woke up | 08:38 |
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| Stskeeps | wassupnari: what's up? | 08:42 |
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| lcuk | hm in qtcreator if I have "follow symbol under cursor" (f2) how do I step back to where I was? | 09:02 |
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| thiago_home | Alt+Back | 09:04 |
| thiago_home | Alt+← | 09:04 |
| thiago_home | like in a browser | 09:04 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, :D | 09:04 |
| lcuk | thanks | 09:04 |
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| vgrade | morning | 09:07 |
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| lcuk | \o | 09:10 |
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| alterego | vgrade: I ping'd last night because I was wondering if you had tablet ux running on anything I could take a look at some day. | 09:12 |
| vgrade | alterego, I have it on the Joggler and netbook, time for another meetup? | 09:13 |
| alterego | vgrade: yeah I think that would be good :) | 09:13 |
| alterego | maybe first half next month? | 09:14 |
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| vgrade | I'm in Germany 4th to 16th then back for a week before going out there again for 2 weeks | 09:14 |
| alterego | oh, heh | 09:15 |
| alterego | let me check my calendar | 09:15 |
| alterego | Okay, shall we say wed 20th april? | 09:16 |
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| alterego | give us a little more time sorting things out, you still available on irc etc whilst you're away? | 09:16 |
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| vgrade | Lets gets it in the calendar, same venue? Yes always on IRC :) | 09:16 |
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| alterego | Yeah, can do same venue, or somewhere else if you like? :) | 09:17 |
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| vgrade | Venue is OK for me, do you want to confirm with them then we can do an announcement | 09:19 |
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| vgrade | you see my new vid?, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZFoTrucY-s | 09:20 |
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| alterego | vgrade, okay I'll ask today as I'm popping in there anyway :) | 09:22 |
| vgrade | alterego, thanks | 09:22 |
| alterego | What was your issue with declarative? | 09:23 |
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| * alterego is asking because he'll be hitting that soon he fears :) | 09:23 | |
| vgrade | Paths. Ended up using <QtDeclarative/QDeclarativeView). | 09:24 |
| alterego | Ah, heh, interesting. | 09:25 |
| alterego | Anyhow I gotta run and get a bus, ciao for now | 09:25 |
| vgrade | OBS project spits out arm hard and soft fp and x86 rpms | 09:25 |
| vgrade | bye | 09:25 |
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| mikhas | hi andre__ - are you aware of the EASYFIX addition to meego bugzilla? perhaps one should grow this into a newcomer project similar to GNOME love? | 11:33 |
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| andre__ | mikhas: saw the email but haven't set up wikipages. should do, yeah | 11:34 |
| andre__ | I'll add it to my to-do list | 11:34 |
| mikhas | :-) | 11:34 |
| mikhas | does your list already overflow? | 11:34 |
| andre__ | ...if I manage find that paper list somewhere on this desk... | 11:34 |
| andre__ | it's still kind of manageable | 11:35 |
| andre__ | you imply that I have some planning on what I do ;-) | 11:35 |
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| iekku | andre__, you can also give some tasks to me ;) | 11:35 |
| iekku | andre__, but not today :D | 11:35 |
| mikhas | WOW! | 11:35 |
| mikhas | others begging for work | 11:35 |
| mikhas | I must still be dreaming | 11:36 |
| andre__ | iekku, same the other way round of course :-P | 11:36 |
| iekku | mikhas, well, i'm also member of the meego em-team, like andre__ so we need to share workflow | 11:36 |
| mikhas | ah, good to know *writes down nick into blackmail file* | 11:37 |
| iekku | there's no point that someone tries to manage to do everything | 11:37 |
| iekku | mikhas, oh no :D | 11:37 |
| mikhas | it's the only way to get things done! | 11:37 |
| iekku | usually it's enough to ask :D | 11:37 |
| mikhas | the "MeeGo Blackmail Process" | 11:38 |
| iekku | :( | 11:38 |
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| lcuk | heh original design documents for GTA online | 12:47 |
| lcuk | http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/03/23/0552200/Original-emGTAem-Design-Docs-Dated-March-22nd-1995 | 12:47 |
| lcuk | one thing I notice is the call for optimsed drawing routines | 12:47 |
| lcuk | the more things change ,the more they stay the same. | 12:47 |
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| dneary | morning | 12:59 |
| dneary | Jaffa, Ping? | 13:00 |
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| * timeless_w7ip sighs | 13:06 | |
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| timeless_w7ip | So I cloned Qt, and there's a file called "INSTALL" | 13:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | it has a thing that looks like a url: | 13:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://qt.nokia.com/doc/%SHORTVERSION%/install-win.html | 13:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | so i loaded it in my browser | 13:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | ... that didn't work well... | 13:07 |
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| timeless_w7ip | lcuk, feel free to try http://qt.nokia.com/doc/%SHORTVERSION%/install-x11.html if you prefer ;-) | 13:07 |
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| lcuk | heh timeless_w7ip | 13:09 |
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| timeless_w7ip | try changing the url to use 4.7.3 | 13:09 |
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| lcuk | that gets more interesting, though it backs up to 4.7.1 | 13:10 |
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| timeless_w7ip | that's te interesting part! | 13:10 |
| timeless_w7ip | s/te/the/ | 13:10 |
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| infobot | timeless_w7ip meant: that's the interesting part! | 13:10 |
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| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.meego.com/qt.gitorious.org/source/qt/INSTALL is the file we're "reading" fwiw | 13:11 |
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| timeless_w7ip | amusingly enough there's actually a guy listed as the maintainer of the file (see the last line of the web page) | 13:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | well, kinda, it seems no one has touced the file since '09 :) | 13:12 |
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| * timeless_w7ip goes to see if the guy still exists | 13:13 | |
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| timeless_w7ip | he does! | 13:13 |
| timeless_w7ip | but in typical nokia style, we can't spell his surname correctly | 13:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | or should i say typical nokia maps style | 13:14 |
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| timeless_w7ip | > Note: The install path must not contain any spaces or Windows specific file system characters. | 13:18 |
| * timeless_w7ip wonders WTF a "Windows specific file system character" is | 13:19 | |
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| lcuk | timeless_w7ip, clippy is unice 0x2937 :P | 13:23 |
| lcuk | s/unice/unicode/ | 13:23 |
| infobot | lcuk meant: timeless_w7ip, clippy is unicode 0x2937 :P | 13:23 |
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| timeless_w7ip | hrm, there's a blank line missing in configure -help's output | 13:26 |
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| lbt | timeless_w7ip: have you ever heard the phrase "polishing a turd".... | 13:27 |
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| Jaffa | dneary: pong | 13:30 |
| dneary | Jaffa, Missing the council? :) | 13:31 |
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| dneary | Jaffa: Unfortunately, I'm just on my way ouut the door | 13:32 |
| Jaffa | dneary: I'm in all day :-) | 13:32 |
| Jaffa | dneary: Not missing the council (yet ;-)) | 13:32 |
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| timeless_w7ip | lbt: yes | 13:40 |
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| timeless_w7ip | http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-17463 | 13:40 |
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| Ansego | hi | 14:38 |
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| smoku | is systemd palnned for 1.3 ? | 14:41 |
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| Sage | smoku: yes | 14:48 |
| smoku | finally :D | 14:48 |
| arfoll | Sage, have you seen my xbmc patch in home:arfoll:xbmc? | 14:49 |
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| arfoll | the touchscreen one. I'm guessing you'd be interested in the same thing but for GLES | 14:49 |
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| Sage | arfoll: sry... haven't had time to do xbmc things lately. | 14:50 |
| arfoll | no worries, i'll probably write a gles version later this week wouldn't mind you giving it a go on the n900 | 14:51 |
| Sage | sure | 14:52 |
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| patzaks | hey | 16:46 |
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| patzaks | MeeGo Installation on Dell laptop anyone? | 16:47 |
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| patzaks | MeeGo Installation on Dell laptop? | 16:48 |
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| patzaks | hello m talking to you | 16:48 |
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| * timeless_xchat pokes timeless_n8 | 16:49 | |
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| gabrbedd | patzaks: Yes. | 16:53 |
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| lbt | can someone check https://build.pub.meego.com/user/register_user is working | 16:58 |
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| * TSCHAKeee registers as slappy_the_idiot_man_clown | 16:59 | |
| lbt | what's new | 17:00 |
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| TSCHAKeee | work...life...linuxmce...., you? ;) | 17:00 |
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| lbt | :) ... but seriously ... does the link work for you? | 17:01 |
| lbt | I have someone having issues | 17:01 |
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| gabrbedd | lbt: That link works... and the link to meego.com works. I didn't actually register a new acct, tho | 17:05 |
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| lbt | gabrbedd: thanks (I'm suspecting the problems are .... shall we say "intrinsic to the user") | 17:05 |
| * timeless_n8 rotfl @ mIRGGI's font size selector | 17:06 | |
| gabrbedd | lbt: ACK! PEBCAK! | 17:06 |
| lbt | timeless_n8: we could do with some css help if you're bored | 17:06 |
| timeless_n8 | Details? | 17:07 |
| lbt | msg-ed | 17:08 |
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| gabrbedd | lbt: mono-sodium glutimated -ed ? | 17:09 |
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| lbt | meh ... http://pkgdb.meego.com/ | 17:10 |
| Jaffa | bt: that looks a little... grey | 17:10 |
| Jaffa | ^l | 17:10 |
| Jaffa | Oh, I see some grey text at the top :-) | 17:13 |
| gabrbedd | press [A] for new game [B] for 2 player | 17:13 |
| lbt | LoCusF: ping | 17:14 |
| lbt | hmm he's hiding | 17:15 |
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| timeless_xchat | yeah | 17:16 |
| timeless_xchat | they're using #25.. on #22.. | 17:16 |
| timeless_xchat | not a good idea | 17:16 |
| timeless_xchat | also media=all causes the n8 browser to ignore the sheet | 17:17 |
| timeless_xchat | drop the media bit so everyone suffers equally | 17:17 |
| LoCusF | lbt: pong | 17:17 |
| lbt | ah.... | 17:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | lbt: yes it does | 17:17 |
| lbt | backlog ... | 17:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 17:17 |
| lbt | TSCHAKeee: thanks | 17:18 |
| LoCusF | I'm trying to make it better | 17:18 |
| lbt | LoCusF: some constructive feedback... | 17:18 |
| LoCusF | please :) | 17:18 |
| lbt | from timeless_xchat | 17:18 |
| LoCusF | ok | 17:18 |
| * lbt introduces LoCusF to timeless_xchat | 17:18 | |
| LoCusF | timeless_xchat: hello | 17:19 |
| timeless_xchat | hi | 17:19 |
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| timeless_xchat | try #fff for background color | 17:20 |
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| LoCusF | gimme all you got, I'll package the changes as you need them | 17:21 |
| LoCusF | so not immediately visible :) | 17:22 |
| lbt | LoCusF: none of this should need packaging | 17:23 |
| LoCusF | but reflecting them in anyways | 17:24 |
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| LoCusF | ok, better? | 17:29 |
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| gabrbedd | LoCusF: Is there a reason why the links are incognito? (I have to mouse-over them to see that they're links... having identical formatting to the text) | 17:39 |
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| LoCusF | gabrbedd: revs.css :p | 17:51 |
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| LoCusF | I'll fix it for the frontpage | 17:52 |
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| gabrbedd | LoCusF: :-) FWIW, even in revs.css it's still hard to tell the difference between a hyperlink and not. | 17:55 |
| gabrbedd | </two_cents> | 17:55 |
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| mikhas | Stskeeps, when I tried to propose the EDS discussion for the next TSG meeting, we realized that we didnt even have one for quite some time (here on this channel). and then all of the sudden we had one on friday? and when the question surrounding that topic came up, the meeting was more or less wrapped up. as long as we dont get real answers, the only *technical* answers to "how can we implement feature X with EDS" will be "use tracker and friends, they alre | 18:57 |
| mikhas | ady have feature X". | 18:57 |
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| mikhas | I know you try to help, but we have reached a somewhat circular reasoning here | 18:57 |
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| mikhas | trying to separate the technical discussion from the reasoning will not work in an open community | 18:58 |
| Jaffa | mikhas: Stskeeps' point is that the TSG is the arbitration board if something's gone wrong. | 18:58 |
| alterego | evolution is a bad idea imo | 18:59 |
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| Jaffa | mikhas: So, for example, the members of the architects board lodging an objection to not being consulted (if they want to) and/or an objection to the decision on technical merits | 18:59 |
| mikhas | Jaffa, yes, and I can try that. probably waiting for official meetings is wrong | 18:59 |
| Jaffa | mikhas: I asked when the next TSG meeting was on Friday. Answer is "when necessary" | 19:00 |
| mikhas | yes, I remember that | 19:00 |
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| Stskeeps | jaffa has my point right, propose motions and there will be a tsg | 19:00 |
| lbt | so send a mail to Imad | 19:03 |
| lbt | he said you could | 19:03 |
| lbt | cc the discussion thread | 19:04 |
| lbt | and ask for some arbitration | 19:04 |
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| mikhas | yep, ok | 19:05 |
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| tbf_ | alterego: evolution as in EDS for PIM store? very much. | 19:06 |
| tbf_ | sets back meego to diablo level - if maemo terms are permitted - when upstream eds is used | 19:07 |
| alterego | I don't get what the problem is with tracker/seaside :/ | 19:07 |
| alterego | I really like it :( | 19:07 |
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| TSCHAKeee | somebody is butt hurt | 19:08 |
| alterego | And it's gonna screw mobility. | 19:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | i find it silly to argue over pieces of tech like this | 19:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | especially when there are bigger problems to solve | 19:08 |
| tbf | tracker is on pair in performance, no it is better as it does more | 19:08 |
| alterego | It'll screw messaging, contacts and dialer | 19:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | like... | 19:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | ...oh...actually finishing Handset, and Tablet. | 19:08 |
| mikhas | you only say that because you dont realize the scope | 19:09 |
| TSCHAKeee | this is Debian sophomore bullshit. | 19:09 |
| mikhas | devices will come, but it is not in my hands | 19:09 |
| mikhas | so I focus on software, ok? | 19:09 |
| alterego | I don't agree, tracker is a major component, which gives the platform a _huge_ edge | 19:09 |
| berndhs | I would just like to see some predictability in terms of timing | 19:09 |
| alterego | It effects a lot, all the way to UI | 19:09 |
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| alterego | It allows for integration that can potentially surpass anything else around. | 19:10 |
| mikhas | it is ineffective to complain about things I cannot influence (devices) | 19:10 |
| alterego | Losing tracker and seaside dramatically reduces MeeGos potential, imo. | 19:11 |
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| berndhs | MeeGo loses potential when nobody can make plans | 19:11 |
| alterego | And EDS is poor, finite contact details, non-flexible querying facilities. | 19:12 |
| Joppeffs_ | true | 19:12 |
| alterego | I might as well use a filofax again :P | 19:12 |
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| Jaffa | TSCHAKeee: "Debian sophomore"? | 19:13 |
| alterego | At least then I can introduce semantics and an extensible field set :) | 19:13 |
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| TSCHAKeee | Jaffa: yes. | 19:13 |
| mikhas | alterego, agree on seaside - python was always the most popular language in Maemo. not C, not C++, not QML | 19:13 |
| alterego | mikhas: I think C was probably more popular tbh | 19:14 |
| alterego | s/was/is/ | 19:14 |
| infobot | alterego meant: mikhas: I think C is probably more popular tbh | 19:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | Jaffa: it's senseless arguing, especially if nobody steps in and has a final word. | 19:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | Jaffa: Debian falls into this stupid trap, and it takes them YEARS to decide ANYTHING at all. | 19:15 |
| alterego | Well, I'll step in, but us outside contributors don't have much weight :P | 19:15 |
| maligor | TSCHAKeee, that's why intel is developing it internally afaik | 19:15 |
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| Stskeeps | alterego: heh, i would say you're making immense weight with the qml work :) at least in some areas you do influence | 19:15 |
| Jaffa | TSCHAKeee: You're equating public discussion with public consensus being necessary to progress. | 19:16 |
| Jaffa | TSCHAKeee: They're not equivalent. | 19:16 |
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| TSCHAKeee | Jaffa: i'm speaking as someone who spent almost 15 years inside the scope of Debian watching pointless discussion after pointless discussion | 19:17 |
| maligor | it's not like debian has to decide anything that affects the user really, except the default configuration the install cd does | 19:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | which never reached consensus | 19:17 |
| maligor | and licenses I guess, but you can get over those also | 19:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | in the end, you have to have somebody who finally says, "This is how it is." | 19:17 |
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| maligor | The Tyrant | 19:17 |
| Jaffa | TSCHAKeee: That was the _start_ of this; perhaps the balance went too far the other way? ;-) | 19:18 |
| dneary | People then need to listen to & follow the tyrant, though | 19:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | this is the trick, to find the balance | 19:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | the problem is, i've never seen public design actually produce anything. | 19:18 |
| dneary | qgil_: Interesting definition of meritocracy | 19:18 |
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| qgil_ | dneary: I actually find your interesting :) | 19:19 |
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| dneary | qgil_, Meritocracy as I understood it is appointment on *displayed* merit, whereas in this situation, all merit is invisible to me | 19:19 |
| TSCHAKeee | keep in mind, MeeGo is trying to produce reference designs of multiple UI targets. This is difficult enough in a closed environment. | 19:19 |
| dneary | qgil_, It seems like "Imad knows they're good" is the meritocratic justification | 19:19 |
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| dneary | I may honestly have missed it - did Valtteri automatically resign from the TSG when he left Nokia? | 19:20 |
| qgil_ | dneary: I don't have more information than you, but I guess that China Mobile is working on something MeeGo if they decide to join a Handset WG | 19:20 |
| dneary | Or was the seat a Nokia seat? | 19:20 |
| qgil_ | dneary: Nokia has a seta in the Handset WG too | 19:21 |
| dneary | Like I said via email earlier, my definition of merit was that it was assigned to an individual, not an organisation | 19:21 |
| qgil_ | dneary: being active in a mailing list is indeed one indication of merit, but not the only one | 19:21 |
| dneary | This somehow reminds me of Matt Zimmerman debating whether "meritocracy" or "do-ocracy" is the appropriate term for projects like GNOME | 19:22 |
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| qgil_ | dneary: I believe the companies nominated for WGs are actually active players in do-ocraticf terms - it's just that commercial development is usually not as transparent as you wish | 19:23 |
| qgil_ | dneary: I believe the merit to Nokia, Intel, China Mobile etc is given clearly to companies | 19:24 |
| qgil_ | in the WGs at least - maintaining components might be a different business | 19:24 |
| dneary | s/"as you wish"/"as the MeeGo project was announced to be" | 19:24 |
| qgil_ | WGs and TSG | 19:24 |
| dneary | qgil_, I have no inherent problem with trade associations | 19:25 |
| dneary | qgil_, It's a good way to get stuff done, if you can set up the governance right | 19:25 |
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| qgil_ | dneary: how do you measure the success of the MeeGo project? | 19:25 |
| dneary | But usually, an individual contributor knows where he stands in a trade association - he has basically no weight in the direction of the project | 19:26 |
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| dneary | qgil_, I'm not concerned (when talking about this particular subject) with the success of the MeeGo project | 19:26 |
| qgil_ | dneary: I can be a great professional, and I alone can be a great maintainer of an open source component (hypothetic case) but no person alone can ship MeeGo products | 19:26 |
| dneary | I'm concerned about a growing gap between the reality & the messaging of the project (and these gaps tend to cause friction) | 19:26 |
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| dneary | If you advertise MeeGo as an open transparent meritocracy, where anyone can show up & impact the project, then people expect to see that in practice | 19:27 |
| qgil_ | dneary: what are the merits for? Ultimately the meritocracy needs to serve the success of the project - this looks clear to me | 19:27 |
| qgil_ | dneary: it's not some kind of compensation system for efforts put in whatever direction | 19:27 |
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| dneary | qgil_, I fear we're speaking at cross purposes | 19:28 |
| qgil_ | dneary: I don't think that appointing a China Mobile representative to the Handset WG is stopping any individual to scale up in the MeeGo meritocracy - both things need to exist | 19:28 |
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| dneary | qgil_, What I am saying is: if I need to be a company building a device to influence the direction of a UX or the core platform, that's fine. | 19:29 |
| dneary | But that is not what has been announced | 19:29 |
| ali1234 | i've been saying this since day 1 lolz | 19:29 |
| ali1234 | and same about maemo fwiw | 19:29 |
| dneary | And people who are not companies, who would like to influence the direction of an UX or the core platform (and have the skills & drive to do so) will become frustrated | 19:29 |
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| dneary | That's all I'm saying - that there is a gap between the communication & the reality which has become *very* clear this week | 19:30 |
| qgil_ | "Any individual or organization can join and get involved in software development. We also welcome other ways of contributing to the success of the project, including writing documentation, testing, and marketing." | 19:30 |
| dneary | And this gap will come back to bite the project in the ass | 19:30 |
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| qgil_ | "MeeGo leadership and governance principle is based on meritocracy, much in the same way as with the Linux kernel or many other Open Source projects. This means that various team or function leaders and subsystem maintainers are selected based on the quality and quantity of their contribution to MeeGo in relevant areas." | 19:30 |
| dneary | I think you know what I mean, and feel that you're not in a position to acknowledge it in a public forum. | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | you can drive a FEA just fine as an individual, WGs just deliver requirements to be entered into exact same process though | 19:31 |
| qgil_ | "The working groups are devoted to strategic discussions in specific areas and are accountable to provide input and guidance about requirements, direction, policies, and conflict resolution, within their area of responsibility. These working groups are open to maintainers and other individuals and organizations that specialize in the domain of the specific group." | 19:31 |
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| qgil_ | this came from http://meego.com/about/governance | 19:31 |
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| qgil_ | dneary: more at http://wiki.meego.com/Working_Group_Process | 19:32 |
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| jonnor | qgil_: do you feel, that up until now, individuals have been able to influence the direction of an UX or core platform? | 19:32 |
| jonnor | can you cite any cases where this has happened? | 19:32 |
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| qgil_ | jonnor: to start with the UX work hasn't been done in the public, so I don't think any individual or company not involved in the work has got the means to influence | 19:34 |
| lcuk | jonnor, I would consider the DeveloperEdition to be in direct response to months of repeated questions by community as a whole, wouldn't you? | 19:34 |
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| qgil_ | but this also goes the other way around: can you name an individual that has done the merits but has been ignored? | 19:35 |
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| qgil_ | dneary: I don't have anything to hide - what you see here are my frank opinions | 19:35 |
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| ali1234 | qgil_: lbt has made some good points about how the repositories work, which seem to have been totally ignored, to the detriment of everyone trying to use them | 19:36 |
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| Jaffa | qgil_: That's a strawman. What we've seen with the Maemo 5 CSSU shows what can happen when people feel they've got an avenue to contribute. A lot of the stuff could have been done when Nokia were looking after fremantle, but patches languished in Bugzilla and would never be shipped. Now we have an avenue for people to see their contributions being accepted and discussed, they contribute. | 19:37 |
| jonnor | lcuk: yes, this is a good move. I'm not sure if the motivation is the activitivy community, wanting to boost the application development activity in the community though :) | 19:37 |
| qgil_ | ali1234: as far as I know lbt is owner of the Community OBS and has got all the chances to discuss with the OBS owners, has been paid to fly to Helsinki and Portland, etc | 19:38 |
| ali1234 | i totally agree about maemo 5 CSSU btw | 19:38 |
| mikhas | "Now *that* we have ...." | 19:38 |
| ali1234 | qgil_: well, i'm not really in the loop on such things | 19:38 |
| qgil_ | Jaffa: the question was about MeeGo UX and Core development, the Maemo 5 CSSU is a different case | 19:38 |
| qgil_ | ali1234: just sayin' | 19:38 |
| lbt | qgil_: actually the core OBS people pretty much won't talk to me | 19:39 |
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| Jaffa | qgil_: I was using it to illustrate that saying "what individuals have tried to contribute" isn't going to be representative as the culture is not amenable to accepting individual contributions. So no-one tries. | 19:39 |
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| dneary | qgil_, Then allow me to say that having looked at MeeGo for a year, I still have no idea how a talented & motivated individual can effect change in a user interface project in MeeGo | 19:39 |
| dneary | qgil_, So for all the documentation & best of intentions, the reality doesn't match up | 19:40 |
| qgil_ | Jaffa: if an individual is going to influence the MeeGo platform or UX development I expect that individual to be a senior platform or UX developer | 19:40 |
| lbt | qgil_: and I feel that core MeeGo have ignored almost everything done by community OBS and by my team (as a vendor) in nokia | 19:40 |
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| Jaffa | qgil_: Right, but everything's done by the time it's unveiled so there's nothing to be done. It's "UI Specification" all over again | 19:40 |
| dneary | Look at the Netbook UX (abandoned), or the (lack of) transparency in architecture decisions, or the tablet UX (developed with no public code) | 19:40 |
| dneary | What's the way in? | 19:40 |
| dneary | What's the equivalent to the Fedora or Debian package maintainer? | 19:40 |
| dneary | Or the GNOME module submission period? | 19:41 |
| qgil_ | lbt: do you think that as Nokia employee (or Digia or whatever employee) you would have got a different different situation? Note that we are discussing here individuals vs employees - btw your work is being done mainly as a paid job afaik | 19:41 |
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| gabrbedd | Anybody know of a wiki link for setting up osc on my local machine to work with OBS? My search skills are failing me. :-) | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | the avenues are actually there nowadays but not widely understood/noone contributes. but some examples do exist of patches and influencing being done . IVI, handset dialer, etc | 19:42 |
| dneary | qgil_, Don't feel like I'm ganging up on you - I'd just like there to be a clear parallel between comms & reality | 19:42 |
| ali1234 | lbt: sorry for dragging you into this :/ | 19:42 |
| qgil_ | dneary Jaffa yes and yes - I'm not disagreeing with you on this | 19:42 |
| lbt | ali1234: np.. very useful | 19:43 |
| qgil_ | dneary: the discussion started because you disagree with me when I say that it makes sense that a company like China Mobile gets a seat in the Handset WG without having written a post in a MeeGo project mailing list | 19:43 |
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| dneary | qgil_, Is that what I said? | 19:43 |
| lbt | qgil_: I think that as an Intel employee/external.... I would have achieved more | 19:44 |
| qgil_ | and I'm just saying that there needs to be a path for commercial parties that will not always follow the path of individuals | 19:44 |
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| mikhas | Stskeeps, blog about those avenues! | 19:44 |
| lbt | in general I'm very supportive of MeeGo being commercially/employee oriented | 19:44 |
| qgil_ | dneary: this discussion started afaik when you said that http://twitter.com/quimgil/status/50561107789758464 was an "Interesting definition of meritocracy" | 19:45 |
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| Stskeeps | mikhas: i'm even doing a meego conference talk on some of these things.. | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | if approved | 19:47 |
| qgil_ | dneary: but again I'm nobody here and these are only my opinions. As a matter of fact I'm "suffering" just as much the consequences of being an employee of a company that has decreased its potential merits in the MeeGo project | 19:47 |
| qgil_ | dneary: and I agree with the principle | 19:48 |
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| timeless_xchat | locusf: so... | 19:48 |
| dneary | qgil_, Yes. So let me repeat myself: I have no problem with China Mobile getting a seat on a WG after they agree (presumably) to build MeeGo devices | 19:48 |
| dneary | qgil_, I'm just saying that's not what I call a meritocracy | 19:48 |
| timeless_xchat | you should /probably/ write "IVI" instead of "ivi" | 19:48 |
| qgil_ | dneary: fine, can we agree to disagree? | 19:48 |
| dneary | So there's a gap between the current reality of the project and its communications | 19:48 |
| lbt | dneary: WG isn't design though | 19:49 |
| dneary | qgil_, Yes | 19:49 |
| lcuk | dneary, meritocracy - alterego as a community hacker, from around maemo and meego, spent the last months *learning* QML, liaising with the community and official developers, picking up ways of working, finding out how to become a member of a team with them, and now seemingly in a great position to be able to put together the UI front end for arguably one of the most important apps on a handset. | 19:49 |
| lbt | no | 19:49 |
| dneary | Sorry - no | 19:49 |
| dneary | We can't agree to disagree. | 19:49 |
| dneary | It's not enough for me to be right, you have to be wrong too | 19:49 |
| lbt | dneary: WF isn't where meritocracy should operate | 19:49 |
| arfoll | dneary, i would be weary of saying these companies have no contributed, employees have been know to not use work email addresses etc... | 19:49 |
| qgil_ | dneary: oh, I suddenly realized that I'm wrong, then ;) | 19:49 |
| lbt | but the EDS/Tracker debate is | 19:49 |
| Stskeeps | LG engineers has actually been around here for a while :P | 19:50 |
| dneary | qgil_, I was joking :) | 19:50 |
| timeless_xchat | arfoll: if x people from a company want to acknowledge they have been contributing and are part of a company | 19:50 |
| qgil_ | dneary: that's why ";)" | 19:50 |
| dneary | lcuk, what's he working on? | 19:50 |
| timeless_xchat | i'm quite happy to say "that entitles your company to a seat" | 19:50 |
| lcuk | dneary, the dialer. | 19:50 |
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| alterego | Cool, hopefully some of those LG guys will want to employ me :) | 19:50 |
| lcuk | and doing bloody well at it too! | 19:50 |
| qgil_ | timeless_xchat: I guess you are not going to give lessons about this topic ;) | 19:51 |
| arfoll | timeless_xchat, some companies would rather employees not reveal this in public lists | 19:51 |
| dneary | timeless_xchat, I repeat, I have no problem with this. This is how Eclipse works. | 19:51 |
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| timeless_xchat | qgil: i don't think my employer is entitled to a seat, no :-b | 19:51 |
| qgil_ | timeless_xchat: I was talking about using company's email address but nevermind | 19:52 |
| timeless_xchat | arfoll: i'm willing for a proxy to report a count | 19:52 |
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| timeless_xchat | "hi, i've counted x contributors from Y co, we think this is a reason to give Y co a seat" | 19:52 |
| arfoll | that would probably have been nice | 19:53 |
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| timeless_xchat | qgil: gah, i'm fine with saying i work for Y co | 19:53 |
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| timeless_xchat | and i do when asked or required to do so | 19:53 |
| timeless_xchat | i'm also fine with my employer not asking me to constantly use my address | 19:53 |
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| timeless_xchat | which seems to align with arfoll's description of some status quo | 19:54 |
| alterego | Do we have any unaffiliated seat members? | 19:54 |
| alterego | Or is it all Nokia/Intel/other? | 19:54 |
| w00t_ | of course not, they're not companies *g* | 19:55 |
| lbt | no/yes | 19:55 |
| timeless_xchat | alterego: it's sad that you have to ask | 19:55 |
| Myrtti | I think you all need some cake | 19:55 |
| Myrtti | cheesecake | 19:55 |
| alterego | timeless_xchat: indeed :) | 19:55 |
| alterego | Myrtti: strawberry? | 19:55 |
| timeless_xchat | myrtti : i'm having food | 19:55 |
| lcuk | can I just ask - which table is being discussed to sit around? | 19:55 |
| w00t_ | the cake table, I think | 19:55 |
| frals | the round one? | 19:55 |
| timeless_xchat | lcuk : good question | 19:55 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:55 |
| Myrtti | timeless_xchat: I'm having cough syrup | 19:55 |
| timeless_xchat | frals: is this a round table not all seats being equal? some more equal than others? | 19:56 |
| timeless_xchat | myrtti, :( get well soon | 19:56 |
| frals | timeless_mbp: theres always someone being more equal than others ;) | 19:56 |
| Myrtti | all animals are equal *oink* | 19:56 |
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| lcuk | mmm bacon | 19:57 |
| gabrbedd | mmmm fried chicken | 19:57 |
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| DawnFoster | mmmm cake | 19:58 |
| timeless_xchat | treif. treif! | 19:58 |
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| * timeless_xchat dispensed hamentashen this week | 19:59 | |
| berndhs | legal persons are typically more equal than natural persons | 19:59 |
| * alterego isn't really a talking person. | 20:00 | |
| timeless_xchat | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReBoot | 20:00 |
| timeless_xchat | err, wrong window | 20:01 |
| alterego | Seriously, I don't care if meego decides to use eds, I'll just continue using tracker and seaside in my own builds. | 20:01 |
| * iekku is more like a big, more equal | 20:01 | |
| * w00t_ should finish his seaside patch | 20:01 | |
| alterego | My dialer relys on it, my contacts will rely on it and so will my messaging. | 20:01 |
| w00t_ | why do you rely on tracker? | 20:01 |
| lcuk | iekku, more big, more equal | 20:02 |
| timeless_xchat | s/relys/relies/ | 20:02 |
| lcuk | do we need to draga big Community WG table in? | 20:02 |
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| iekku | lcuk, yeah | 20:02 |
| lcuk | (hopefully multitouch) | 20:02 |
| Myrtti | for a moment I thought you were talking of Minecraft | 20:02 |
| berndhs | iekku: certainly quantity has a quality all its own | 20:02 |
| alterego | So when I've rewritten every reference app I want to in Qml, we'll see who has the most attractive build :) | 20:02 |
| alterego | Hell, when I've done those I'll probably implement my own handsetux ... | 20:03 |
| lcuk | alterego ;) believe me - if you try and do everything yourself you will be still unfinished about 4 years down the line | 20:03 |
| alterego | The fact I _can_ do this is more important to me than this crap. | 20:03 |
| timeless_xchat | is 2011 the year of corporate open source? | 20:03 |
| alterego | lcuk: I never finish anything :P | 20:03 |
| qgil_ | alterego: CLAP CLAP CLAP | 20:03 |
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| lcuk | alterego, that is why turning "I" in your sentences into "we" is important | 20:04 |
| alterego | :) | 20:04 |
| ali1234 | no | 20:04 |
| alterego | lcuk: We never finish anything :P | 20:04 |
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| lcuk | :D | 20:04 |
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| ali1234 | turning "i" into "we" just ensures a project gets bogged down by committee nonsense | 20:04 |
| lcuk | alterego, but we WILL Finnish it. | 20:04 |
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| alterego | Hah | 20:04 |
| lcuk | my Nokia device is screaming for a MeeGo handset build that works :) | 20:05 |
| * w00t_ sends a mail to arrange going to SF | 20:05 | |
| alterego | Yes, mine too. | 20:05 |
| ali1234 | it's not a coincidence that the person actually *making* something is not interested at all in what the WG is arguing about this week | 20:05 |
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| lcuk | ali1234, that is ok as long as that person has his next thing to focus on | 20:06 |
| alterego | ali1234: the past 3 years for me in regards to mobility have been chasing the preverbial carrot as far as APIs are concerned. | 20:06 |
| frals | alterego: since you are working on dialer ui, any idea what the state of ofono is on n900? fully working? | 20:06 |
| alterego | frals: let me get back to you in a couple of days when my application code is tested. | 20:06 |
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| lcuk | frals, :P by fully working, do you mean "can send mmses if poked correctly" ? | 20:07 |
| alterego | I've implemented multiple modem handling, my architecture is geared toward pluggable modules for ofono (first prio) and telepathy and any other voice (maybe video) providing service. | 20:07 |
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| alterego | The app then loads and utilises a single plugin for UX (in my case a Qml loader) | 20:08 |
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| frals | lcuk: with fully working i mean, receive wap pushes and let me setup a connection to a context i specify... so yeah ;) | 20:09 |
| lcuk | :) | 20:09 |
| lcuk | then let us try and find out for you. | 20:09 |
| alterego | Anyhow, I'll be testing my modem interfacing code tonight, and some _call_ related stuff. | 20:09 |
| alterego | WAP push isn't a dialer concern :P | 20:09 |
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| frals | ill try it myself tomorrow i guess, just need to remember to dig out a spare n900 from my drawer at work | 20:10 |
| lcuk | alterego, then who would you speak to to try and get frals the info? | 20:10 |
| alterego | Though maybe it will be ... | 20:10 |
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| alterego | lcuk: well, my code I want to be ofono api complete, so even if I don't expose the api to user, the proxies and management stuff will be there for my own morbid facination with these things :) | 20:11 |
| lcuk | ps - this message was posted today on the meego-fi summit group pages but could equally relate to many things here: http://summit.meegonetwork.fi/time-to-wake-up | 20:11 |
| alterego | So I can write a few little test cases. | 20:11 |
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| alterego | about to lose signal, bbiab | 20:12 |
| lcuk | sabotage, how much about ofono do you know? | 20:12 |
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| wmarone_ | hm, MeeGo TV WG press release up on engadget | 20:14 |
| TSCHAKeee | er wha? | 20:14 |
| lcuk | wmarone_, link | 20:15 |
| wmarone_ | top of engadget for the moment | 20:15 |
| wmarone_ | http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/23/linux-foundation-announces-meego-smart-tv-working-group-intel/ | 20:15 |
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| * thiago_home met with Sigma several months ago | 20:17 | |
| thiago_home | I'd like to think I had a hand in convincing them to join in :-) | 20:17 |
| alterego | Oh, think I've been sneezing because of hay fever, that would make sense. | 20:17 |
| thiago_home | "LG and China Mobile just signed on to the MeeGo TSG, so there is some activity in that area." <--- huh? (comment on engadget) | 20:17 |
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| thiago_home | probably http://www.allaboutmeego.com/news/item/12706_Nominations_for_MeeGo_Working_.php, which says "Nominations for MeeGo Working Groups include LG and China Mobile" | 20:18 |
| thiago_home | step 1) list a lot of companies joining the WGs | 20:19 |
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| thiago_home | step 2) blog about two of them and write "TSG" in the same sentence | 20:19 |
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| thiago_home | step 3) Engadget reports that these two are now on the TSG | 20:19 |
| thiago_home | :-P | 20:19 |
| timeless_xchat | well, it did seem like a fait a'compli | 20:20 |
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| thiago_home | I do hope that one or both do join the TSG, though. Or Samsung. Or someone else too. | 20:21 |
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| wmarone_ | Quim jumps in to save the day :) | 20:21 |
| gabrbedd | What we need now is a poorly written slashdot summary on the engadget article. | 20:22 |
| qgil_ | thiago_home: just answered to that comment | 20:22 |
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| alterego | Weird, I think they've turned on a new tower here, I normally lose signal on this part of my journey. | 20:22 |
| thiago_home | gabrbedd: :-) | 20:22 |
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| thiago_home | gabrbedd: and, of course, a lot of comments from people who don't RTFA | 20:22 |
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| lcuk | right, so when we put a proposal to the TSG for a Community WG - does that get reported as we joined the TSG? | 20:24 |
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| gabrbedd | How's this: "LG and China Mobile replace Nokia in MeeGo" ?? | 20:25 |
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| lcuk | gabrbedd, do they? I thought Nokia were down but not out. More like other industry giants step in to strengthen and balance MeeGo? | 20:28 |
| gabrbedd | lcuk: That's a prototype for an insanely inaccurate headline for slashdot. | 20:29 |
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| JakeS3 | hi | 20:29 |
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| JakeS3 | any scratchbox gurus around? | 20:29 |
| lcuk | gabrbedd, :) then get it on the firehose! ;) | 20:29 |
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| lcuk | JakeS3, MeeGo does not use scratchbox | 20:29 |
| JakeS3 | hmm | 20:29 |
| lcuk | on device development or OBS | 20:30 |
| JakeS3 | right.. :) | 20:30 |
| sabotage | luck: enough to be dangerous ;) | 20:30 |
| lcuk | sabotage, ? | 20:30 |
| JakeS3 | lcuk: I'll ask around maemo then... | 20:31 |
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| sabotage | "11:09:14 lcuk | sabotage, how much about ofono do you know?" | 20:31 |
| lcuk | excellent! | 20:31 |
| * sabotage gets to IRC finally after a derailed morning | 20:32 | |
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| lcuk | sabotage, could you therefore find out what pathways frals would need to start down towards implementing MMS? | 20:32 |
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| sabotage | I've not looked much at the SMS stuff and not sure if they've got plans for MMS in ofono yet or not | 20:33 |
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| sabotage | but I can look quick | 20:33 |
| sabotage | or, frals can hop on #ofono as has there ;) | 20:33 |
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| frals | sabotage: yeah, lcuk is just pushing me to do something today i have planned for tomorrow ;) | 20:34 |
| lcuk | lol | 20:34 |
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| mikhas | JakeS3, I do use scratchbox, and I am constantly told I wouldnt do MeeGo :,-( | 20:34 |
| * lcuk not pushing :$ | 20:34 | |
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| lcuk | just asking related people when available | 20:34 |
| frals | lcuk: its not a bad thing ;) | 20:34 |
| lcuk | that is good then frals :) | 20:35 |
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| lcuk | frals I spoke with sampo today and depending on my travel plans towards tampere summit may be able to drop into Hemingways for a pint | 20:35 |
| javispedro | wouldn't all of sms/mms be handled by telepathy? | 20:36 |
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| timeless_xchat | mms is a special disaster | 20:36 |
| frals | lcuk: oooh, let me know, i like that place :D | 20:36 |
| lcuk | me too :) | 20:36 |
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| sabotage | frals: looks like you may need org.ofono.ConnectionManager.AddContext("mms") and then org.ofono.ConnectionContext* | 20:36 |
| timeless_xchat | sometimes involving a distinct ip address, different routing and incompatible dns | 20:36 |
| lcuk | I am being told that the train from Helsinki is fairly easy, so might do that instead of another plane hop | 20:36 |
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| sabotage | but this seems pretty light and may not be what you're looking for | 20:37 |
| lcuk | timeless_xchat, yeah we had 6 months of that sort of thing in maemo | 20:37 |
| timeless_xchat | it's kind of hard to fix something that's fundamentally broken | 20:39 |
| lcuk | sabotage, it might be that the interfaces within ofono itself need adapting and developing further | 20:39 |
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| frals | bah, my dsl modem decided to take a break again... loving zyxel. | 20:39 |
| frals | sabotage: cheers | 20:39 |
| frals | lcuk: its hard to fail taking the train to tampere from HEL | 20:39 |
| sabotage | frals: according to the ofono overview.txt file, MMS is not planned to be part of ofono itself | 20:39 |
| timeless_xchat | mms also more or less assumes that no one would ever have or need any persistent connections | 20:40 |
| sabotage | frals: http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/ofono/doc/overview.txt#164 | 20:41 |
| * timeless_xchat grins from ear to ear | 20:41 | |
| timeless_xchat | sabotage, you just made my day :) | 20:41 |
| sabotage | ;) | 20:41 |
| sabotage | you're welcome! | 20:41 |
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| timeless_xchat | :) | 20:43 |
| Silverhawk1986 | hi! could someone help me with my meego ivi install on an I945GC-board? seems the graphic controller isn't working properly. Sry for eventually bad english, i'm german :) | 20:45 |
| frals | sabotage: thanks again, will take a deeper look at the ofono docs but it seems like it has the apis for most of the stuff i need at least :) | 20:46 |
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| lcuk | timeless_xchat, :P you never use MMS do you? | 20:51 |
| timeless_xchat | i've used it twice i think | 20:52 |
| timeless_xchat | once was probably this month | 20:52 |
| timeless_xchat | someone wanted to demo mms to me | 20:52 |
| timeless_xchat | lcuk : i've done phone to phone video calls! | 20:54 |
| * alterego wonders whether cbms should be implemented in dialer. | 20:54 | |
| lcuk | timeless_xchat, sure | 20:54 |
| * lcuk ponders just replaying the lcuk_log back from maemo days - it seems the same things are required :P | 20:54 | |
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| lcuk | \o wa | 20:55 |
| lcuk | wazd even. | 20:55 |
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| lcuk | I am making pizza, does anyone want some? | 21:00 |
| timoph | send some my way :) | 21:00 |
| berndhs | lcuk: if it has bacon on it | 21:00 |
| lcuk | ++ bacon | 21:01 |
| bdub | I just got an alert from xchat. did someone say bacon? | 21:01 |
| lcuk | :D | 21:01 |
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| DawnFoster | bdub: admit it, you wish Texas had bacon donuts :) | 21:10 |
| bdub | DawnFoster, I sadly admit that we have a dearth of bacon-enhanced pastries down here. | 21:11 |
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| * alterego wants some :( | 21:16 | |
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| GAN900 | bdub, really? | 21:18 |
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| GAN900 | I can go down the street and get a bacon cheeseburger on a glazed donut bun. | 21:18 |
| bdub | GAN900, I haven't found any in College Station, at least. (that said, we do have deep fried bacon) | 21:18 |
| GAN900 | Seems like Texas should have more than FL | 21:19 |
| alterego | deep fried bacon O_O | 21:19 |
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| bdub | I think we're too busy frying anything that can fit in a basket to explore adding bacon to maple donuts. | 21:19 |
| GAN900 | Hehe | 21:19 |
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| alterego | Heh | 21:20 |
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| GAN900 | Amen to that. Fried Twinkies all the way. | 21:20 |
| bdub | And fried beer, and fried butter, and fried oreos, and... | 21:20 |
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| lcuk | gabrbedd, qgil_ - how could China Mobile and LG (as part of the handset WG) assist frals and other members towards the open MMS implementation | 21:25 |
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| lcuk | (random thought whilst making pizza ;) ) | 21:25 |
| qgil_ | lcuk: why not asking in meego-handset? | 21:25 |
| lcuk | because I just ran back upstairs - the house is full of delicious cooking smells :) | 21:27 |
| alterego | What does frals need for MMS? | 21:27 |
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| alterego | I'm neck deep in ofono right now, if I can help him I will. | 21:27 |
| lcuk | then move it over to handset along with the other guys in there | 21:28 |
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| gabrbedd | lcuk: sorry, I won't be much help on this topic. I had to look up "MMS," even. :-) | 21:34 |
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| lcuk | gabrbedd, tis ok, you just mentioned about the work groups is why I pinged you :) | 21:38 |
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| lcuk | status report: pizza was delicious. | 22:23 |
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| lcuk | Russel Brand on his wife: | 22:25 |
| lcuk | "See, if she leaves stuff lying around I have to deal with it. And if I leave stuff on the floor I have to pick it up. That confuses me. " | 22:25 |
| lcuk | http://othernews.uk.myway.com/article//20110323/N0169561300876935341A.html | 22:26 |
| lcuk | :D | 22:26 |
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| lcuk | what an awesome thing: http://thedailywh.at/2011/03/23/marketing-campaign-of-the-day/ | 22:47 |
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| lbt | Jaffa: qgil_ .. we should have a Mr Whippy ice cream machine at SF... | 22:58 |
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| mikhas | lcuk, nice | 23:00 |
| lbt | mikhas: they've been tweeting about it | 23:00 |
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| mikhas | I generally avoid the gibberish that is twitter | 23:00 |
| lbt | whereas irc.... | 23:01 |
| * lbt has tweeted .... 3 times now! | 23:01 | |
| lbt | mmm | 23:01 |
| mikhas | ... is absolutely necessary for my daily work? | 23:01 |
| lcuk | its is full of life and typos. and not restricted to 140 characters! | 23:01 |
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| mikhas | lcuk, lbt: gibberish in the sense of: tweets usually require a lot of context to make any sense | 23:02 |
| lcuk | lbt did you wash your hands after? | 23:02 |
| lbt | yeah .... I just figure that ignoring it isn't going to help me understand MeeGo's ultimate target :) | 23:02 |
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| lbt | anyhow... I was feeling physolofical | 23:02 |
| lcuk | hmm lbt, twitter being the ultimate target? | 23:02 |
| lbt | lcuk: of course! | 23:03 |
| lbt | kinda | 23:03 |
| lbt | "The biggest OSS time management issue is going down rabbit holes .... just because you have the source doesn't mean you should fix it NOW" | 23:03 |
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| lcuk | but that only has a few people on it. :) | 23:03 |
| lbt | I also do facebook now... | 23:03 |
| lbt | *sigh* | 23:03 |
| lcuk | I should get a facebook soon :) | 23:03 |
| lbt | let me just see if anyone's pinged me | 23:04 |
| lbt | nope | 23:04 |
| lcuk | I have family on facebook so that is easy | 23:04 |
| lbt | lcuk: yeah .. that usually keeps me off too ;) | 23:04 |
| lcuk | ;) | 23:04 |
| lcuk | twitter is odd mix of mostly work and a few pals | 23:05 |
| lcuk | so in amongst random techisms we talk #publife | 23:05 |
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| lbt | *nod* ... well, I'm making BOSS work on c.obs | 23:06 |
| lbt | and not fixing osc.... yet | 23:07 |
| lcuk | lbt, that has been issue with handset itself until recently | 23:07 |
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| lcuk | now with the test builds and DE stuff, many more people are past having phone booted and getting apps working | 23:08 |
| lcuk | have you seen vgrade got the qtquickplayground working? | 23:08 |
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| lbt | no... not used it | 23:08 |
| lcuk | he added it to the ITP | 23:09 |
| lbt | I need my N900 for conf calls in the day | 23:09 |
| lcuk | works across the board | 23:09 |
| lcuk | yeah | 23:09 |
| lbt | I really want obs working well | 23:09 |
| lcuk | i need to get my plug fixed | 23:09 |
| lbt | and BOSS is a bit vaporware | 23:09 |
| lcuk | my n00 is getting wonky :( | 23:09 |
| lbt | outside of nokia anyhow | 23:09 |
| smoku | lcuk, cool one. have you seen http://slk.mercedes-benz.com/ ? | 23:10 |
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| lcuk | smoku, no, will look now! | 23:10 |
| berndhs | SLK runs linux ? | 23:11 |
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| lbt | ROFL at chapter 1 | 23:14 |
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| lbt | powerslides to the camera ... then cut to girly driving as the girl gets out | 23:15 |
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| lcuk | smoku, :D nice wheels. hot car. | 23:22 |
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| * lcuk just tweeted it | 23:23 | |
| smoku | lcuk, hot _car_??! | 23:23 |
| lcuk | s/car/babe/ | 23:24 |
| infobot | lcuk meant: smoku, :D nice wheels. hot babe. | 23:24 |
| smoku | :D | 23:24 |
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| w00t_ | DawnFoster: thanks | 23:34 |
| DawnFoster | w00t_: always happy to prod people | 23:34 |
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| DawnFoster | I hate it when developers don't respond to patches | 23:34 |
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| w00t_ | give kaitlin_ and mnementh a gold star then :) | 23:35 |
| w00t_ | they're doing well with the responding bit | 23:35 |
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| kaitlin_ | w00t_: I missed your meego-handset-people patch from 3/15 though. | 23:36 |
| w00t_ | kaitlin_: that's fine | 23:36 |
| w00t_ | we're all human - that's why i followed them up | 23:37 |
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| kaitlin_ | I'll look at it shortly though. Before the end of my day =) | 23:37 |
| w00t_ | did you see the juicy syncmodel patch too? :) | 23:37 |
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| kaitlin_ | w00t_: I did. I'm going to tackle that one first - I'm excited to take a look at it. | 23:40 |
| w00t_ | :-) | 23:40 |
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| mnementh | DawnFoster: mnementh == connie.berardi in case you were handing out gold stars ;) | 23:51 |
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| lcuk | mnementh, would you settle for a pint of guinness and a bacon sandwich? | 23:54 |
| mnementh | lcuk: totally! :) | 23:55 |
| lcuk | \o | 23:56 |
| * lcuk slides them across the table | 23:56 | |
| mnementh | :) | 23:58 |
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| lcuk | mnementh, what did you patch/change/fix/build/hack today then? | 23:59 |
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