IRC log of #meego for Saturday, 2011-03-19

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* w00t_ "relaxes"00:24
w00t_finally got a bunch of the scary, overdue TODO items on my list done, then I realise just how many more of them I haven't done lately00:25
w00t_I hate that feeling00:25
w00t_how are we all? seems quiet in here this evening00:25
haltdefyou ruined it00:27
* w00t_ pokes haltdef00:27
w00t_long time no see00:27
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haltdefwhat, I've been lurking in here for weeks now00:28
haltdefhow rude :(00:28
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aukehaltdef: I can kick you if you desire00:29
* w00t_ ponders hacking on libseaside some more00:29
thiago_homeDawnFoster: ping, are you here?00:30
w00t_auke: o/00:30
thiago_homeDawnFoster: have we announced the extension?00:31
lbthey auke00:31
w00t_thiago_home: I haven't read anything about it00:31
w00t_and I tend to keep on top of RSS/mail00:31
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thiago_homewe're at 115 sessions00:33
thiago_homeso great showing today00:33
thiago_homebut I've told some people that they had more time00:33
* w00t_ told some people, too00:33
thiago_homeI want a few QML sessions from my team in...00:33
w00t_though I think that's also one reason you got a good proportion of the 115.. :p00:34
* lbt checks the 'Infra' proposal.... X-Fade thought we had more time to finish that00:34
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lbtmmm ... no  abstract....00:35
thiago_homewe did manage to triple the number of submissions compared to yesterday morning00:35
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DawnFosterI think amy was going to announce the extension00:39
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thiago_homeDawnFoster: could you poke her?00:40
thiago_home(gently)00:41
lbtwhat a gentleman00:41
thiago_homeknowing amy, I know she's very busy with everything and it's not like she needs more things to do00:42
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thiago_homeDawnFoster: oh, btw, are you coming to LCS?00:42
thiago_homeDawnFoster: want more Norwegian chocolate?00:42
DawnFosterha!00:43
DawnFosterI am coming to LCS, but probably don't need more chocolate :)00:43
DawnFosterI appreciate the offer, tho00:43
DawnFosterbut then I'd have to spend more time at the gym working it off.00:43
thiago_homeyou know, it's only 200g or so...00:44
lcukDawnFoster, since you got a virtual offer of chocolate, don't you now need to browse the gym website to work it off?00:44
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DawnFosterhey, I'm trying to be good here!00:45
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w00t_being good is overrated00:46
* w00t_ would have that norwegian chocolate in a heartbeat00:46
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thiago_homew00t_: when are you or kamilla coming to oslo?00:47
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w00t_soonest will be around july, probably00:47
w00t_she has to graduate first00:47
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w00t_thankfully, we're very very close to that, after ~4 years of being rained on00:48
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* w00t_ cannot wait to leave the country :-)00:48
* thiago_home would leave some in Helsinki for w00t_ if he knew it wouldn't "disappear"00:48
w00t_those darn sneaky finns...00:48
lcukw00t_, step over the border from Hull and into England :P00:49
w00t_lcuk: haha00:49
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w00t_it's admittedly wetter here than anywhere else, I think00:49
* w00t_ cannot get over how much faster the virtual keyboard seems nowdays00:50
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lcukyou don't visit Manchester often enough00:50
lcukvkb is quite awesome now, lots of hard work gone into optimising it00:50
w00t_what happened with the meetup suggestion there?00:50
lcuksunday 2pm MOSI00:51
w00t_whaaaaat00:51
w00t_this sunday?00:51
w00t_arrrgh00:51
lcukyea, good excuse for a pint00:51
w00t_I thought I mail subscribed to the thread, I guess not00:51
w00t_I'll see if I can organise that tomorrow, dunno if I can make it though as we were hitting the movies00:52
w00t_but yes, would be nice00:52
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lcukw00t_, it is a bar finding mission really, since there haven't been any meetups around Manchester need to find somewhere nice to sit00:55
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w00t_:)00:58
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lcukw00t_, eep seems it is not at MOSI afterall (see I am subscribed and still did not know :P) it is at Knott bar just round the corner01:09
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DawnFosterhttp://sf2011.meego.com/news/call-proposals-has-been-extended-meego-conference01:12
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DawnFosterwe're giving everyone an extra week to submit01:13
thiago_homethanks dawn (and amy)01:13
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DawnFosterit's all Amy :)01:13
DawnFosterI'm just the one hanging out on IRC01:13
* thiago_home did get an email from a colleague saying "sorry, I didn't have time, maybe next year"01:13
thiago_homeI answered: "you're not off the hook, we're extending the deadline" :-)01:13
w00t_haha01:13
DawnFosternice!01:13
* w00t_ still has no idea what to talk about01:14
thiago_homeI asked him to submit about QML2 (QML with Scene Graph and all the goodies we're developing)01:14
w00t_scene graph is nice :)01:14
w00t_happy to see the picture with wayland starting to come together a bit more, too01:14
thiago_homethe scene graph lead will probably submit a bof (he said he doesn't have time to make a presentation *and* finish scene graph)01:15
thiago_homeyeah, jørgen submitted his talk today too01:15
thiago_homeI guess he and krh will have a lot to chat about01:16
w00t_:-)01:16
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thiago_homeDawnFoster: please ask amy if she wants chocolate :-)01:18
DawnFosterthiago_home: Amy says "Yes!!! Please. it's AMAZING"01:20
DawnFoster:)01:20
w00t_see, dawn?01:20
w00t_that was supposed to be your answer :)01:20
DawnFoster:)01:20
w00t_i seem to be utterly incapable of getting anything more done today, heh01:21
thiago_homeDawnFoster: she's half Norwegian, she has to like it :-)01:21
thiago_homeDawnFoster: if she doesn't come to LCS, will you take it back to Portland for her?01:22
w00t_i dunno, that dawn doesn't seem an entirely trustworthy character around chocolate :-P01:22
DawnFosterI'm almost positive she'll be at LCS - we're doing a bunch of stuff there01:22
lcukw00t_, that WAS her answer, but the damn autocorrect01:22
DawnFosterw00t_'s right - I can't be trusted :)01:23
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thiago_homeyou just said you didn't want it01:23
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thiago_homeanyway, I can't be blamed for your extended gym time if you steal her chocolate01:24
thiago_home:-)01:24
thiago_homeanything I can bring to you then?01:24
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DawnFosterno, I'm in good shape, but thank you for offering!01:25
thiago_homeok, then Qt stickers it is01:25
thiago_home:-)01:25
DawnFosteroooh, I wonder if we should print more stickers for collab summit01:26
* w00t_ notes he needs a new Qt sticker for his n90001:26
w00t_my old one has started to scratch off01:26
w00t_it is ... not so cute *takes off sunglasses*01:27
thiago_homethe one I had in the inside of my laptop scratched off in 2 months. The one on the outside (back of the screen) is a year and counting.01:27
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w00t_inside of laptop, good idea01:27
w00t_I'm missing a few there :-P01:27
thiago_homethe KDE one I put where the Windows sticker was is holding fine01:28
w00t_I scratched all the windows off my sticker01:28
w00t_it's now just a white blob01:28
w00t_(which looks kind of cool)01:28
thiago_homeI didn't scratch it. I peeled it off while Linux was installing, the very first day I got this laptop...01:28
w00t_well I didn't really scratch it either01:29
w00t_it rubbed off over time01:29
w00t_I left it on to see what would happen01:29
w00t_the Intel and NVidia stickers fared much better01:29
thiago_homemy "Intel Centrino inside" sticker is always found slightly crooked01:30
thiago_homeit keeps turning...01:30
w00t_haha01:30
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w00t_I had that problem a few laptops ago01:30
w00t_I ended up just pulling it off and sticking it on the screen bezel01:30
thiago_homebut now I want one that says "Sandy Bridge inside" (and is true)01:31
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w00t_the new mbps are sandy bridge, aren't they?01:31
thiago_homeyep01:32
* w00t_ is looking at buying one01:32
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Robot101anyone got qgil's US number? he's based in sunnyvale, right?02:42
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pavlixhi, I'm using the public build service and I added a meego 1.0 repository to my project but it won't build (it won't even show any info about building against Meego 1.0), any suggestions?03:36
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ali1234pavlix: can you link to your project?03:38
pavlixali1234: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Apavlix03:39
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pavlixI'm new, so you may encounter beginner errors there03:39
ali1234well, you might need to wait a while before the server gets around to processing your stuff03:39
ali1234not sure...03:39
ali1234i think it should say that the packages are queued03:40
ali1234or scheduled03:41
pavlixI was working with Meego 1.1 before that and it always showed me at least some status in several seconds03:41
ali1234ah did you just add in 1.1 again?03:42
pavlixyep03:42
ali1234yeah, something odd going on there03:42
pavlixbut I left 1.0 also03:42
pavlixanyway, Fedora 14 would not add at all, but that's not so important for me03:43
ali1234weird03:43
lcuk4 packages are blocked03:46
lcukhttps://build.pub.meego.com/monitor03:46
lcukhttps://build.pub.meego.com/monitor/old actually shows details03:46
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ali1234well, i can't really suggest anything... you need an obs expert, i am barely even a beginner03:47
pavlixthat sound bad03:48
ali1234it would not surprise me if the 1.0 repo was somehow broken though03:48
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ali12341.0 was a bit of a mess really, nobody really knew how to build it from scratch, and the core obs was not visible to the public at that time03:49
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pavlixmy gobject introspection package stopped even building for 1.1 for me03:49
pavlixit doesn't matter anyway03:49
ali1234hmm really?03:50
ali1234it failed though right?03:50
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ali1234error: Installed (but unpackaged) file(s) found:03:51
ali1234i hate that error03:51
pavlixit failed but with an error that doesn't make sense to me03:51
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ali1234when you build an rpm you have to provide a list of all files that will go in the rpm03:51
pavlixI don't think this version is distributing source code with a binary package03:51
ali1234if the build system creates more files than the ones you listed you get this error03:52
pavlixthese are source files03:52
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ali1234you must either add them to the file list if you want them in the rpm or delete them after the build step if you don't03:52
pavlixand I would think it already wored03:52
ali1234what the files are is irrelevant :)03:52
pavlixno03:52
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ali1234it tried to install them03:52
ali1234this is all rpmbuild cares about03:52
pavlixthe source code is usually not installed by make install03:52
ali1234usually03:52
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pavlixlet's wait for the local build's results03:55
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pavlixali1234: why does https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=MeeGo%3A1.1%3ACore say it has no packages yet?04:02
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ali1234pavlix: i think because it is just a set of binary rpms04:03
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ali1234pavlix: the community OBS doesn't build all of meego from scratch, it reuses the binary rpms from core repos04:03
ali1234so there is nothing actually being built in there04:04
pavlixali1234: can one actually see what it's using, or it's some hidden magic?04:05
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ali1234it used to be hidden magic but not you can look on the core OBS at the whole build process:04:05
ali1234http://build.meego.com04:05
ali1234s/not/now/04:05
pavlixali1234: ok, thanks, but can I see somewhere at build.pub, that a project is using binary rpms from elsewhere?04:06
ali1234you can look at the project config04:06
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ali1234https://build.pub.meego.com/project/prjconf?project=MeeGo%3A1.1%3ACore04:07
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ali1234basically all the stuff under advanced04:07
ali1234making sense of it is hard though04:07
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ali1234doesn't mean much to me i'm afraid04:07
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pavlixthanks, it doesn't mean much to me eigher, but at least I'm getting a breaf idea how it may work :)04:10
lcukpavlix, what are you building in there?04:12
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pavlixlcuk: just some specific versions of packages, I need sufficiently new clutter & mx04:13
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pavlixali1234: I was wrong about the source file..... fixing the spec file does the job04:13
lcukpavlix, cool04:14
pavlixlcuk: I'm a total newcomer to OBS, but I'm getting better :)04:16
lcukpavlix, how did you build your app before OBS?04:18
pavlixlcuk: I'm not using it for my app, but only for new versions of various libraries.... before that, I used either configure&make or jhbuild or rpmbuild04:19
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pavlixwhat's the easiest way to get the repo file for my project?04:20
pavlixsorry, I'm there :)04:21
pavlixunfortunately, I can't probably use it anyway, as I have Meego 1.0 for development, not 1.104:22
lcukhttp://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/pavlix/meego_1.1_core_Netbook/04:22
lcukbut in general, from your info page, click repositories tab at the top04:23
lcukthen the specific repo details page04:23
lcukthen there is a link to the download repo04:23
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pavlixlcuk: yep, this works04:26
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rdesfo1hello05:55
rdesfo1I have a  ASUS Eee PC Convertible Tablet and I'm trying to get meego to work with the touch screen.  So far I installed meegotouch-compositor, meegotouch-applauncherd-testapps, xinput_calibrator, meegotouch-home, meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard, meegotouch-systemui05:56
rdesfo1But the calibration fails when I run it.  Does any one know how to get meego to work with the touch screen?05:57
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gabrbeddrdesfo1: How is your touchscreen behaving?  What does it do?  ...or /not/ do?06:17
gabrbeddrdesfo1: ...and did it work with the Netbook 1.1 UX?06:18
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rdesfo1when I touch the screen the mouse goes to the upper left corner06:18
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rdesfo1the screen works fine with windows7 that is the default OS installed on it06:18
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rdesfo1gabrbedd: when I run the calibration it failes06:19
gabrbeddrdesfo1: Erm... it's not that simple.  However, chances are that you can get it to work with a kernel "quirk"06:20
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gabrbeddrdesfo1: It requires (a) determining the actual touchscreen you have... getting the vendor ID and device ID,06:20
gabrbeddrdesfo1: and then (b) editing /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf to add the quirk.06:21
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gabrbeddrdesfo1: The root problem is that there's not a proper driver in the kernel for your touchscreen... but usually when they behave like you describe, it can be made to work like this.06:21
gabrbeddrdesfo1: If you can give me (a), I can give you (b).06:22
rdesfo1where do I find the vendor ID and device ID?06:22
gabrbeddrdesfo1: sudo lsusb -v | more06:22
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gabrbeddit'll be idVendor and idProduct... hex numbers that look like 0x02a106:23
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rdesfo1gabrbedd:idVendor   0x1d6b Linux Foundation06:26
rdesfo1gabrbedd:idProduct 0x0001 1.1 root hub06:27
gabrbeddrdesfo1: Nope... that's your USB hub.06:28
gabrbeddrdesfo1: Are you able to do this... sudo lsusb -v > /tmp/usb-info.txt06:28
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gabrbeddrdesfo1: And then send me the file /tmp/usb-info.txt via pastebin or email?06:28
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rdesfo1yep one sec06:30
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rdesfo1gabrbedd: sorry for the wait git://gist.github.com/877228.git06:40
gabrbeddrdesfo1: a git repos?  LOL... didn't expect that.  :-)06:40
gabrbeddrdesfo1: OK,.. idVendor = 0x0486 ASUS Computers, Inc.06:42
gabrbeddand idProduct = 0x018606:42
rdesfo1gabrbedd:thanks06:43
gabrbeddedit /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf to add usbhid.quirks=0x0486:0x0186:0x4006:43
gabrbedd...at the end of the "append" line06:44
gabrbeddIf you wanna do a magic trick... here's one...06:44
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gabrbeddsudo sed -i 's/^\([ \t]*append.*\)/\1 usbhid.quirks=0x0486:0x0186:0x40/' /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf06:45
gabrbedd...all on one line.06:45
* gabrbedd copy/pasted that, btw06:45
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rdesfo1gabrbedd:It worked thank you very much  :)07:00
gabrbeddrdesfo1: sweet!07:01
gabrbeddi suppose I should write that on a wiki somewhere... this is becoming a more common question.07:02
rdesfo1The sed command would need to be updated...It added the quirk line to the windows boot option (which is listed as other)07:02
gabrbeddwindows?07:03
gabrbeddWe don't need no stinking windows!07:03
gabrbedd:-p07:03
rdesfo1:)07:03
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Stskeepsok, 130 presentations to sort through is a lot better than 30 :P08:27
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Stskeepsmorn thiago_home08:31
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thiago_homemoin Stskeeps08:52
Stskeepsthink it was a good idea to extend, even though we're at 120-130 now, there still lacks more "edge" proposals to make it a really good program08:53
Stskeeps(just browsed through the proposals)08:53
thiago_homeyeah08:54
thiago_homewe also need to look at the schedule grid, to see how many we can accept08:54
Stskeeps:nod:08:54
thiago_homesince we're doing all 3 days this time, I think we should range at 10008:54
Stskeepshave to keep room for the late-breaking news as well08:55
thiago_homeyes, the usual08:55
thiago_homewith dirk on vacation for the next two weeks, we'll have to make do between the both of us08:55
Stskeeps:nod:08:55
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Stskeepsi just filed a bug that xls export is not functioning properly08:56
thiago_homeclose on the 25, try to get the first wave (90%) by april 8, final schedule by 22?08:56
Stskeepsmakes sense08:56
Stskeepsprovided the sponsorship people can live with those dates08:57
* thiago_home will be in the US for Camp KDE and LCS between April 2 and 908:57
thiago_homehmm?08:57
Stskeepswell, there's bound to be sponsorsed participants that can only go speak if sponsored08:57
Stskeepsso that usually requires them to know as early as possible for budget reasons, so it would be good to sync when they ideally need an indication if someone speaks or not08:58
Stskeeps(if that doesn't make sense, i need to get more coffee)08:59
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thiago_homeright, that's why the confirmation of 90% earlier09:10
Stskeepsk09:10
thiago_homeand the final confirmation (including rejects) one month in advance of the conference09:10
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bluelfmeego not in gsoc ? why?09:17
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Stskeepsbluelf: whoever managed the process didn't want/thought application was bad/we didn't include enough hello kitty drawings09:17
Stskeepsin short, we don't know :)09:17
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bluelfI want to work , I have basic programming experience , I am willing to learn . How can I start developing or at least learning how to develop meego.Please tell me where to start .09:20
bluelfI have tried the wiki I dint get much !09:22
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Stskeepsstart learning qt and qml, that's best step :)09:23
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kyb3Rselect easy bug from tracker and try to fix it :)09:26
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iekkumorning11:11
Stskeepsmorn iekku11:11
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alteregoIs there a current list of accepted talks for sf2011?11:21
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Stskeepsnone has been accepted yet11:24
alteregoOh, hah, just thought it'd be good if I tried to be unique :P11:25
Stskeepsuse the call for presentations text as inspiration and that should get a good idea :)11:25
Stskeepsthere's a list of proposed talks on website11:25
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alteregoAh m'kay11:26
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iekkulots of new proposes there, nice11:32
Stskeepsyeah11:33
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iekkuhope lots of them coming11:33
iekkugood ones, to make Stskeeps's work harder :P11:33
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alteregoHeh, got a link to the page?11:37
Stskeepshttp://sf2011.meego.com/program/sessions11:37
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alterego"How to make your session suck less" hahah11:39
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alterego"QML Quality Assurance" I wanna watch that one11:41
Stskeepssabotage also has a dialer session11:41
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alteregoAh11:44
alterego:)11:44
timophqml qa sounds interesting11:48
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alteregoYeah, I wanna watch that one.11:49
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alteregoI'm suprised no one has started a qml javascript repository thingy12:06
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Stskeepsdneary spoke of some code snippets storage or something like that at some point12:07
alteregoYeah, that kind of thing :)12:07
alteregoI might do some research in using jquery and protoype libs12:08
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pavlixhi again, would it be possible to build with OBS against Meego 1.0? (yesterday nobody knew :))13:40
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dm8tbrtry and find out? :)13:43
pavlixdm8tbr: I did13:45
pavlixdm8tbr: it's broken13:45
dm8tbrah, poke lbt or X-Fade then :)13:46
lbtMeeGo 1.0 ... hmm13:47
lbtwhy?13:48
lbtlet me rephrase ... "goddamit that's more work... how useful is it really?"  :D13:48
lbtand define "broken"13:49
pavlixlbt: because it's preinstalled and because I have not yet persuaded the company to give me upgrade instructions for the particular box, and because I'm afraid of reinstalling as I never worked with Redboot13:49
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pavlixlbt: so broken that the build information doesn't even appear13:49
lbt<mutter> sounds reasonable13:49
lbtwhat project?13:50
pavlixlbt: better see yourself: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/repositories?project=home%3Apavlix13:50
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lbtpavlix: I'm going to add MeeGo:1.0:Core to your repo path ... OK ?13:53
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pavlixlbt: ok13:53
lbtso ... the way 1,0 seems to work is that you have 1.0:Core with a prjconf13:54
lbtthere must be a prjconf somewhere as it essentially defines what the minimal chroot it13:55
lbtis13:55
lbtthen ... for 1.0 ... the Netbook repo is *added* to that.13:55
joppupenis13:55
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lbtit looks like the pre-defined setup isn't quite right... let me review it13:55
lbthowever... https://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?project=home%3Apavlix13:56
lbtyou haz clutter already ;)13:56
joppumitäh?13:56
pavlixlbt: thanks a lot, this way it will be much easier13:56
lbtnp pavlix :)13:56
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pavlixthis OBS doesn't seem partucilarly fast.... but it's still faster than the box.... and it gets me a repository for free :)13:57
lbtit should be fast13:57
pavlixI hope to switch to 1.1 anyway13:58
lbtI think we need to work on the HW/OS tuning though13:58
pavlixwhen I build the same on my laptop for Fedora, it's still faster13:59
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pavlixbut I'm too lazy to set up all stuff there13:59
lbtusing "osc build" ?13:59
lbtor just 'make' ?14:00
pavlixlbt: nono, just rpmbuild on Fedora14:00
lbtah... well it's doing a heck of a lot less work then. So you could have faulty build-deps and it'd still build if they were installed on your laptop14:01
pavlixlbt: and... I cannot add Fedora repository to OBS14:01
pavlixlbt: using the one from the listing14:01
lbtfile a bug... :)14:01
lbt(please)14:01
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pavlixlbt: I'm a little bit confused where to file it14:02
lbthttps://bugs.meego.com/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community%20Build%20Service14:02
lbtI'm just noting the MeeGo:1.0:Netbook issue14:02
pavlixok14:02
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lbtpavlix: what product/device BTW14:04
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pavlixlbt: sort of a intel atom based HTPC with redboot and meego14:05
* lbt is interested ... is it a commercial device?14:05
pavlixlbt: I got it as a testing machine for my work, closed source, unfortunately14:06
lbtnp... just interested14:06
lbtcan you say what company?14:06
pavlixlbt: for me it's really just a metal box without proper cover, before that I used a dell netbook with meego for development14:07
pavlixlbt: company name is not so confidential :), it is a local company in Czech Republic, Lica, you probably don't know14:08
lbtno - but it's good to get an understanding of what's happening :)14:08
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pupnik_the ruler takes the boy just as he enters manhood and teaches him that his highest duty is to shoot a bullet through his neighbors heart14:11
pavlixlbt: they're doing many sorts of TV stuff :)14:11
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pavlixlbt: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1470714:27
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_MeeeGoBot_Bug 14707 nor, Undecided, ---, maemo, NEW, Fedora 14 repository can't be added to a community build service project14:27
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araujomorning14:38
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lbtta14:41
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lcukmorning araujo \o16:40
lcukwhat are you upto today?16:40
alteregoHey lcuk16:41
lcukhi alterego \o16:41
alteregoGlorious day isn't it :)16:41
alteregoI was just trying to ride a unicycle with my gf16:41
lcukStskeeps, even with no accepted sessions, are there any you are liking the look of?16:41
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alteregolcuk: qml qa looks good,16:42
lcukalterego, not looked16:42
alterego;)16:42
lcukalterego, which session? (link?)16:42
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alteregoKates AR drone as well16:42
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alteregoThose are the ones I've remembered anyway :D16:43
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alteregolcuk: have you seen this? http://sf2011.meego.com/program/sessions16:43
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iekkuno new sessions in several hours16:44
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iekku:(16:44
araujolcuk, morning there o/16:44
araujolcuk, not much, just getting used to my new glasses :P16:45
lcukalterego, am not asking for the whoe list (ta though) was asking for specifics you liked (and having a  link nearby helps people digging in future)16:45
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lcukaraujo, awesome, what kind are you getting?16:45
alteregolcuk: okay, I'll look through them again and make some notes.16:45
alteregoI'd like to keep track/remember anyway ;)16:45
lcukthere you go :)16:46
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lcukaraujo, are you going to have embedded HUD on the new ones?16:47
lcukBIG BACON detector!16:47
araujolcuk, just some polycarbonate glasses :P16:48
araujohahaha16:48
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alteregolcuk: looking again, there's actually quite a lot I'm interested in seeing ..16:50
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lcukalterego, yeah there are a load of sessions16:50
lcukmorning arjan \o16:51
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alteregolcuk: I might have to c&p these to pastie.org for you ;)16:53
lcukalterego, it is not for me :) it is just to have a discussion16:54
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* lcuk is not even on the conf list yet16:54
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lcukberndhs, :P16:55
alteregoI think a lot of the qml ones could be merged into fewer but more meaty talks.16:55
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alteregolcuk: obviously this one: http://sf2011.meego.com/program/sessions/meego-12-developer-edition-nokia-n900 :D16:56
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lcukI still want to know how we will get meego on smaller, less powerful devices16:57
lcukheh alterego16:57
Stskeepslcuk: i believe nokia 770 could technically run meego, just not handset ux16:57
lcukStskeeps, good, what about some sort of small media playing device rather than solely large format high resolution tabletish things?16:58
alteregoMeeGo PMP?16:58
alterego(Portable Media Player)16:58
Stskeepslcuk: i mean, why not.. we might have to go to non-Xorg though16:58
* alterego chuckles16:58
lcukalterego, Stskeeps is already a PMP16:58
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* alterego chuckles16:59
StskeepsPretty Manly Person?16:59
Stskeeps:P16:59
alteregoHah16:59
lcukheh16:59
Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVPOEmOVnQ16:59
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alteregoThere seem to be a lot of "write apps in qml" and "write apps in qml with qt components"17:00
Stskeepswe might suggest to some to merge their talks17:00
lcukStskeeps, cool, that seems nicely responsive17:00
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lcuklower resolution helps17:00
alteregoWhat I'd like to see is fewer of those, but merged with the things like "qml localisation"17:00
RST38hOMGITISN91017:00
alteregoand "qml qa testing framwork"17:01
lcukRST38h, ?17:01
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alteregoAdmittedly the testing one may be better on its' own.17:01
RST38hActually, looks pretty snappy, even although it is probably staged17:01
alteregoMaybe I could ask sabotage if he wants me to talk a bit with him wrt dialer17:01
lcukRST38h, it gets easier to do things faster when you lower the resolution17:01
lcukn810 experience: 800*480 == 25fps,   640*480 == 33fps17:02
lcukand continuing that trend17:02
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lcukat 2*2 I think it managed over 9000 fps17:02
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lcukalterego, why don't you use the dialer itself and talk in person17:03
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lcukRST38h, same effect occurs with Qt running on the N8 (since it is 640*360 or some such)17:05
alteregolcuk: isn't that what I said?17:05
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lcukalterego, actually dial him up17:05
alteregoHeh17:05
lcukon stage would be awesome use of it between you guys17:05
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lcukqml and native code, connected.   cue Nokia ringtone17:06
alterego:)17:06
alteregoHah17:06
alteregoNokia connecting APIs17:06
RST38hQML does not exist without native code afaik17:06
lcukRST38h, that is the point17:07
lcukqml makes nice UI front ends17:07
RST38hSo, not sure what you mean by "connected" here, it may be a misunderstanding of the API scope17:07
lcukwithout the support of the backend code it is just pretty17:07
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* lcuk goes coding something17:07
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alteregoYou can do a lot in plain Qml, but for sure most "real" apps will require an application engine exposing a JavaScript API for Qml UIs17:08
alteregoMaybe I could do a talk on: "ISVs, This is why QML is what you want in order to gain brand recognition"17:09
alteregoOr: "Handset UX innovation using generic application code and Qml UXs"17:10
alteregolcuk: http://sf2011.meego.com/program/sessions/data-models-qml17:11
alteregothat one should probably be merged, but I like data models and I like qml :)17:11
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lcukserious question about meego handset17:12
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lcukin Maemo, the dashboard shows grid of apps17:12
lcukand a few of those might be your messages17:12
lcukwhen new messages come in, the grid cells highlight17:12
lcukwith there being no real dashboard on meego at the moment17:12
lcukhow can you keep track of things17:13
lcukwithout having to slide across the panel after each message comes in17:13
alteregolcuk: I don't like the task switching dashboard in meego :(17:13
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alteregotbh, I don't really like the handset ux at all right now.17:15
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alteregoI'm hoping for radical changes ..17:15
lcukcould qml cope with whole WM compositing and interaction?17:17
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lcukalterego, I keep thinking how much this looks like something else: http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/03/conceptual-meego-tablet-ui-pictures/17:18
alteregolcuk: I think qml could do compositing.17:18
alteregoWell, I think it could be used for the decoration.17:18
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alteregoI need to poke into mcompositor at some point tbh17:19
* lcuk still does not like compositing, especially for its wastefulness on pixels17:19
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pupniklol17:19
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alteregolcuk: those pics look like a cross between WP7 and OS X ..17:28
lcukalterego, background image is the reason for that17:29
alteregoTo be honest, it doesn't speak to me, not how maemo spoke to me with the 770 through to the N8x0s17:29
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alteregoThe N900 didn't really talk to me either, but up to m5 I really liked the maemo UIs17:30
alteregoI don't think any mobile (handset) OS really talks to me much at the moment.17:30
lcukso make a maemo4 UX :P17:30
lcukthe UX should really have the table test17:31
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lcuksetup a computer in a busy coffee shop17:31
alteregoThey all seem to lack something. And as much as I don't like to admit it, I kind of like some aspects of WP7 UX17:31
lcukon perhaps a larger screen, and count the number of people who walk into chairs and tables behind you17:31
alteregoHahah17:32
lcukless bumps == meh17:32
lcukmore bumps == awesomeness17:32
RST38halterego:admit it, you like the colors!17:32
RST38hThe whites! The blues! The magentas! The beautiful CGA palette!17:33
alteregoHeh17:33
alteregoWith Qml though, we have a great tool for rapidly prototyping UI concepts.17:33
RST38hYeah, but it still has to be standardized, so you need a widget set, notjust QML17:34
lcukalterego, http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PUPp_mE7rwI/1.jpg tiny pic is tiny, but amusingly prototypeish ;)17:34
alteregoEven if the final implementation is mostly converted to QWidget.17:34
alteregoRST38h: agreed17:34
alteregoHahah17:35
alteregolcuk: that Nokia pad, I swear the font is MS WP7 font ..17:35
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lcukalterego, it probably is17:35
lcukit is afterall a static mockup17:35
alteregoOf course they must be moving away from the Nokia font ..17:35
* lcuk ponders skinning a liqbase screen using their style17:36
alteregolcuk: yeah, that's what I was thining.17:36
alterego(wrt mockup) :P17:36
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lcukalterego, so what font is used for the shopping list?17:37
lcukerr todo list17:37
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alteregoHahah17:38
alteregoDunno17:38
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* lcuk has had basically that screen since 200917:39
alteregoI'm gonna start thinking up a mobile UX ..17:39
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lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_011659.lib.scr.png :P17:39
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gabrbeddAnybody know of a good repository verification checker that's not yum-utils.  :-)17:44
lcukgabrbedd, hmm I would suggest timeless or timoph or sampos or pop into #meego-qa and #meego-qa-tools to see17:46
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gabrbeddlcuk: thanks.17:47
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* gabrbedd b0rked his install... `zypper dup` has become very dumb.18:30
CosmoHillI installed Windows 7 SP1, my desktop is now in the corner of my room waiting to be fixed18:31
pupnikheh18:33
kyb3R:)18:34
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CosmoHillsalut Alison_Chaiken18:35
CosmoHillon a realated note, ovi suite is a bastard18:35
pavlixI found a strange behaviour of zypper in meego18:35
lcuk:D awesome:18:36
lcukThe removal of portions of circuits that aren't essential to the task at hand is known as 'probabilistic pruning,' and it results in chips that are twice as fast, use half the power, and are half the size of conventional chips.     http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/03/19/169217/Pruned-Microchips-Twice-As-Fast-and-Efficient18:36
pavlixI have a custom repository with newer versions of some packages, https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Apavlix, and zypper install mx-devel, when called the first time, installs the older version from meego repos, when called the second time, upgrades from my custom repo18:37
lcukpavlix, how odd.18:37
pavlixshouldn't it decide the version first time and keep it second time?18:37
lcukyou did zypper refresh first I gather?18:38
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Alison_ChaikenHuomenta CosmoHill.   Are you coming to our SF MeeGoCon?18:38
pavlixlcuk I thougt it's automatic18:38
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pavlixlcuk and it seems it sort of is :)18:38
CosmoHillAlison_Chaiken: nope18:38
lcukpavlix, perhaps18:38
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pavlixand, just in case, I turned on the refresh setting of the repo18:39
CosmoHillI live in a cave, come outside and blink at the sunlight then go back inside18:39
CosmoHillthe cave being a metaphor for my workload18:39
lcukpavlix, maybe because you were replacing system component it used the proper repository first?18:39
pavlixlcuk: maybe, I can't tell18:40
lcukAlison_Chaiken, how is prep going for the conf then?  what talk have you submitted?18:41
Alison_Chaikenlcuk, I am out of the loop on the Conference preps although I volunteered to help.   I sense that the number of submitted abstracts is disappointing so far.18:42
pavlixapart from this anomaly, this setup works perfectly for me, and I installed the version of Mx I need.... thanks lbd :)18:42
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lcukAlison_Chaiken, so what would you submit?18:44
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dm8tbrmh, if what Alison_Chaiken is true and there would be interest in something related to community hardware adaptations and community in general I could offer to come up with some talk.18:44
dm8tbrStskeeps can confirm that I'm quite painfully active in that topic ;)18:44
lcukAlison_Chaiken, do you think your ninja routine with Quim could be pulled off on stage?18:44
lcukreading a presentation whilst hanging upside down and installing software on a screen might make for an awesome photo op18:45
dm8tbro.O18:45
* gabrbedd submits session proposal.18:45
Alison_Chaikenlcuk, great idea.  I did recently simply yank the plug out of one of the monitors near our elevator.   The screen showed Valtteri expounding on the advantages of MeeGo just moments before.18:46
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Alison_ChaikenAnd, I forgot to add, the monitor was using a Windows app to show the video.18:46
lcuksigh18:46
lcukok, so we need a meego on a stick that is fully advertising ready18:47
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pupnikmeego on a stick19:10
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gabrbeddDeep fat fried meego on a stick, topped with syrup and whipped cream19:12
gabrbeddmmmmmmmmm19:12
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gabrbeddneeds more bacon.19:18
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lcukgabrbedd, it always needs more bacon19:22
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lcukgabrbedd, I note there is also no #bacon thread on meeGo forum19:23
lcuk(unlike Maemo one: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=24701)19:23
gabrbeddhahaha!19:24
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berndhshow do they survive without #bacon ?19:24
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lcukberndhs, IDK19:25
lcukthis was one of the easter eggs in original liqbase19:25
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20090115_233206.gary.scr.png19:25
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* lcuk just restored that starfield actually 19:25
* lcuk ponders adding bacon too19:26
CosmoHillBT's new "home hub" has a restart button, that raises questions of reliability19:27
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alteregoHeh19:33
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alteregoWould you say the same if it just had a power switch?19:33
RST38hOr a pinhole reset button19:33
CosmoHillit has a pin hole reset, a power button and a restart button19:34
CosmoHillhttp://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumer/assets/images/broadband/home_hub_large_3.jpg19:34
alteregoMeh19:34
CosmoHillnice that they give you a choice of how to restart the router when it fails19:34
alteregoAnyway, all routers tend to fail, having a button at the front would be nice tbh, rather than digging around to unplug it, or turning it off at the mains.19:36
RST38hWouldn't go with anything provided by the Phone company19:36
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* gabrbedd hates the DSL modes with the "kill switch" on the top where it's easy to bump.19:36
gabrbedds/modes/modems/19:37
CosmoHillI just want to know how BT Infinity works and if it's like an external modem19:37
CosmoHillno point spending £50 on a new router only to find out I then need to replace it with another one just cos I need a ethernet point instead of a ADSL port19:37
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lcukCosmoHill, I thought the BT infinity box included a complete copy of the internet.19:40
RST38hIt actually does, but with all the naughty bits removed19:41
RST38hSo, that copy actually fits the 32GB SD card19:41
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Jartzahmmh20:10
Jartzajust ordered kendo m7 android tablet for 99€20:10
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pupnikwhat cpu Jartza20:10
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kirillhello20:17
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CosmoHillhi20:18
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* CosmoHill shuffles Deck20:30
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wazd_hola all21:01
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lcukhi wazd_ TSCHAKeee \o21:02
TSCHAKeeeyo21:02
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TSCHAKeeehey, has ANYONE tried to build a MeeGo stack using BusyBox ?21:47
TSCHAKeeeright now, we install the full versions of a LOT of stuff in core, and that takes up a chunk o space.21:48
lcukTSCHAKeee, busybox was cause of many maemoisms in the past and it was discussed and decided early on that full clean versions of apps are better i nthe longrun21:49
TSCHAKeeemaemoisms?21:49
TSCHAKeeei can understand why in some cases, but there are some devices that, you know.. have only 512MB or 1GB of flash upon which to store an operating system21:50
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TSCHAKeeeand i don't like having the overhead of going to squashFS21:50
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thiago_homehow much bigger is coreutils than busybox?21:52
alteregothiago_home: a _lot_21:53
thiago_homehow much? 1 MB?21:53
alteregoYou're talking bash as well, or what other shell you want to use21:53
TSCHAKeeefor me, it's the difference between having a 800mb system image, and a 400mb one.21:53
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thiago_homeyes, it does mean bash too, which means libreadline and termcap21:54
TSCHAKeeeOpenPeak for example, stores TWO copies of their Linux OS on the hardware, they can do that because they busyboxed everything21:54
alteregoNo, coreutils + bash + some other packages that busybox uses probably equals 5M-8M21:54
alteregos/uses/replaces/21:54
infobotalterego meant: No, coreutils + bash + some other packages that busybox replaces probably equals 5M-8M21:54
alteregoWhere as busy box can be about 0.5M21:55
alteregoI think the largest I've seen it is ~1M21:55
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TSCHAKeeei'm not saying it's right for everyone21:56
thiago_homemeego compliancy requires coreutils21:56
TSCHAKeeebut i'm just trying to trim things down so that it fits comfortably on this openpeak device which has 1GB of flash.21:56
lcukTSCHAKeee, it is not just busybox though, it is the system scripts which require tweaks to use it21:57
TSCHAKeeeyeah, am aware21:57
TSCHAKeee:/21:57
* thiago_home finds it hard to believe that 1 GB wouldn't be enough21:57
lcukon Maemo removing busybox and replacing with full toos can make system unbootable - if busybox tools were compatible with the set of scripts using normal tools I would agree21:58
lcukthiago_home, I find it hard to believe we cannot fit in the 256mb partition to be fair21:58
* alterego lals at reference dialers' HistoryTableModel::generateDirection() method21:58
thiago_home256 is tight21:58
alteregoint dir(qrand() % 2);  // 0=OUT, 1=IN, 2=MISS21:58
alteregopahaha21:58
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ali1234busybox is designed for systems with as little as 8mb of flash21:59
alteregoThey use entropy to work out the type of call :D21:59
ali12341G is just totally massive21:59
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ali1234wait, i've got that backwards... busybox goes down to 2mb flash/8mb ram21:59
lcukthiago_home, entire operating systems used to exist in ess than 1mb :P21:59
TSCHAKeeelcuk: heheh, I know. ;)22:00
* lcuk ahems at 640kb comment22:00
alteregoEntire OS used to exist in 32K :P22:00
thiago_homeyes, I remember booting with a 5.25" floppy22:00
* TSCHAKeee built software atop OS9, believe me, I remember.22:00
alteregoMy first machine was a BBC Electron22:00
TSCHAKeee(no, not Mac OS 9, OS-9)22:00
* alterego chuckles22:00
TSCHAKeeealterego: i have a Beeb in my collection, still works wonderfully (BBC Master 512 with a few mods)22:00
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alteregoTSCHAKeee: I've got about 4 BBC Micros and 2 BBC Electrons22:01
TSCHAKeeei liked the whole Tube expansion22:01
TSCHAKeeethrow in an extra 650222:01
TSCHAKeeeand watch Elite go really fast22:01
TSCHAKeeehahah22:01
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alteregoI've also got 2x A440s, 2x A3000s, 1 A3010, 1 A3020, 2 Risc PCs, 2 A7000 (1FE)22:02
TSCHAKeee(still one of the greatest games...ever....made....)22:02
alteregoErm, whateles.22:02
gabrbeddthe linux kernel can no longer fit on a 3.5" HD floppy.22:02
alteregoYeah, Elite is/was awesome, I played that for years.22:02
TSCHAKeeei played its sequel on the amiga, Frontier for years too22:02
TSCHAKeeejaw hit the floor first time i saw the graphics.22:02
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alteregoI played Frontier once.22:03
lcukwas Frontier the one with realtime space travel?22:03
alteregoI didn't have a machine with it on, didn't have a x86 based machine until 200022:03
lcukie taking 273 years to reach the next star22:03
alteregolcuk: :)22:03
TSCHAKeeelcuk: yeah, Elite was like that too.22:03
lcukTSCHAKeee, thank god for fast forward22:03
alteregoHeh,22:04
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TSCHAKeeeit just amazed me that the whole game was dynamically generated22:04
alteregoI'd love to play that game again.22:04
TSCHAKeeehit play..whammo, galaxy with a trillion places to go22:04
ali1234lcuk frontier was the one with "realistic" acceleration - you could accelerate for half an hour, and it would take half an hour to stop22:04
TSCHAKeeethe attention to detail was amazing22:04
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alteregoTSCHAKeee: there were 3 galaxys, maybe 4, can't remember, and there was also the "voidspace" or something :D22:04
TSCHAKeeeyup22:05
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alteregoI remember always getting tense when I jumped into voidspace.22:05
alteregoI'd love Elite on my N900 ..22:05
TSCHAKeeeMESS can run it decently22:05
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TSCHAKeeeusing one of the bbc machine profiles22:06
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lcukTSCHAKeee, infinity is easy to reproduce, I can create entire unique galaxies with just a swipe22:06
alteregoI saw some people get RISC OS working on Beagle board, might see if it's plausible.22:07
alteregoTo boot it on N90022:07
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TSCHAKeee;)22:07
TSCHAKeeelcuk: i can too, gimme 5 mins in a bathroom, with a few magazines....22:07
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* TSCHAKeee chuckles22:07
lcukif it takes just a swipe then perhaps you should be visiting your doctor.22:08
alteregoHah22:08
alteregoSex Doctor?22:08
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TSCHAKeeeheheheh22:08
lcukKryten: I was just idly flicking through an electrical-appliance catalogue. ... and suddenly my underpants elastic was catapulted across the medical bay.22:09
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alteregoThat was when he was looking at the vacuum cleaner right? :D22:09
alteregoAnd he's showing him those polaroids :D22:09
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lcukyeah series 4, DNA22:10
alteregohurp-de-hurp22:10
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* alterego is experimenting with JavaScript & QML.22:11
alteregoI'd really like an interactive QML JavaScript console ..22:11
* alterego writes one22:11
gabrbeddalterego: I recall one of the Qt devs wrote one for maemo or symbian or something...22:12
gabrbeddalterego: I'm thinking 1 mo. ago... on the nokia blog or something.22:12
alteregoI'll have a quick google.22:12
alteregogabrbedd: weird, I would have thought I'd have noticed that :D22:13
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gabrbeddalterego: You probaby forgot when your ego was altered.22:13
alterego:P22:13
gabrbeddalterego: didja find it?22:13
alteregoNo :(22:13
gabrbeddI'm looking, too.  I think I saw it on twitter from somebody like lcuk or quimgil or vgrade22:14
alteregoSounds like some lcuk would twitter on about :D22:14
lcuknope, not me22:15
* gabrbedd moves on vgrade's twitter...22:15
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Deck`mad remote -r "installed runtime" poweron doesnt work22:24
Deck`i run meego sdk on livesd with Opensuse22:24
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Deck`s/livesd/livecd22:28
Deck`"This may take some time"22:28
Deck`and no results22:28
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CosmoHillopen another terminal and type "top"22:29
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CosmoHillvgrade: Reading are 3 points away from the play offs22:29
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vgradenot checked the table today, I saw we were losing 2 nil to sheffied22:30
vgradevery very close at the top there22:31
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gabrbeddalterego: drat!  I can't find it.  :-(22:38
CosmoHillit's behind you, next to my ninjas22:38
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alteregogabrbedd: made my own :)22:41
alteregoWorks quite well :D22:41
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alteregogabrbedd: think I might try and make it into some kind of reusable component ..22:42
gabrbeddalterego: That would be cool.  yeah, this was some kind of in-device IDE sort of thing.  There was a video of it some time between the elopocolypse and now.22:44
alteregoHeh22:44
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alteregoThis looks interesting: http://jryannel.wordpress.com/category/qml/22:49
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lcukbwho has run more #MeeGo devices than vgrade?22:57
lcuks/bwho/who/22:57
infobotlcuk meant: who has run more #MeeGo devices than vgrade?22:57
alteregoHrm ..22:59
alteregoDon't think anyone has :)22:59
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alteregoThis works really nicely :)23:10
alteregoI might push it to gitorious and make it groovy.23:11
alteregoOh, Qt Creator actually has a JavaScript (QML Script Console)23:11
alteregointeresting.23:11
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lcukvgrade, hi.  how would your testing be formulated?  would you pull directly from OBS and offer a report?23:13
alteregoNow to implement command history navigation with arrow keys ..23:13
vgradelcuk, the idea popped into my head while taking those pics earlier and thinking about a couple of OBS projects which are built for ARM but only tested at the moment on x8623:17
lcukvgrade, yes, I hear about MANY projects around meego which concentrate on the high end testability23:18
lcukusability too23:18
* lcuk supposes I should get some packages onto obs soon23:19
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vgradealterego, have you seen https://projects.forum.nokia.com/qtquickplayground23:22
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lcukvgrade, I hadn't noticed it, nice indeed.23:30
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vgradelcuk, I've started to port to meego, my first Qt app project on OBS. https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=Qt-Quick-Playground&project=home%3Avgrade23:32
gabrbeddvgrade: That's it!!  It was you!  :-)23:33
gabrbeddalterego: ^^^23:33
vgradegabrbedd, :)23:33
vgradegabrbedd, I was not sure but the description you gave matched qt playground23:34
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vgradegabrbedd, I may need some help on this as its my first OBS Qt app, well my first OBS app actually after concentrating on hardware adaptations23:35
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gabrbeddvgrade: I doubt I'll be much help with OBS (I've yet to try out my account).  But for everything else, just let me know.23:37
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vgradegabrbedd, whats your area of expertise?23:40
lcuk"sheep worrier"23:40
lcukerrr sorry, that is MohammadAG :P23:40
gabrbeddvgrade: Qt devel, audio app , RPM and DEB packaging, and non-OBS distro maint.23:41
* MohammadAG grumbles at lcuk23:41
lcukheh23:41
gabrbeddlcuk: I think you mean "Sleek Warrior."  Silly T9.23:42
pupniki want female bodyguards too23:43
vgradegabrbedd, ah Ok, thanks.23:43
lcukgabrbedd, no typos here :P23:43
vgradelcuk, how many do you have attending tomorrow?23:44
lcukIDK vgrade - just going having a couple of pints and a chat with whoever though23:45
lcuk.me considers it toe dipping23:45
lcukvgrade, if the bar is full it gives opportunity to see how many tables get walked into23:46
lcuk(fun game)23:46
CosmoHillaparantly I can't open 10 web comics on one computer with out iplayer on the other lagging23:46
CosmoHillnow it;s showing me the defrag program23:47
pupnikheh23:52
alteregols23:53
alteregooops23:53
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CosmoHill. .. pron23:53
alteregovgrade, gabrbedd thanks ;)23:54
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