IRC log of #meego for Wednesday, 2011-03-02

« Tuesday, 2011-03-01 Index Thursday, 2011-03-03 »
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* lcuk gingerly inserts Magnum series 3 dvd00:30
thiago_helfeeling like growing a moustache already?00:31
lcukthiago_hel, I have a beard00:32
lcukwould look pretty odd without a moustache00:32
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lcukits grown since, but http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/5193488127/00:33
* lcuk finds a better beard shot00:33
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/20101020_003.jpg00:34
lcukthere we go00:34
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DawnFosterlcuk: you're right - much better :)00:41
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lcuk:D DawnFoster00:42
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lcukthat was the prototype00:42
lcukhey lbt00:42
lbthey lcuk00:42
lbtjust in from the slopes00:42
lcukexcellent, did you by chance use gps and record your tracks?00:43
lcukits all the rage with the n8 guys atm00:43
lcukthey rigged up a whole sensor system on the snowboard and person and sent them hurtling down mountains00:43
lcukhttp://www.pushsnowboarding.com/00:44
lcukshoiuld be entirely possible to use ecoach to record similar00:45
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ali1234that URL gives me a mental image of a guy pushing another guy up the mountain on a snowboard00:47
lbthehe.. n o00:47
lbttoo busy moaning about the pain00:47
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DawnFosterhey lbt! having fun?00:48
lbthi DawnFoster... yes we are ;)00:49
lbtI facebooked some pics00:49
lbtand Niels put some up ono flickr00:49
DawnFosteroh sweet!00:50
lbtweather is pretty good - a few cloudy moments but deep snow00:50
lbtand 25cm expected tpo00:50
lbttonight00:50
thiago_helwhere?00:50
lbtWWWWWWhistttttler00:51
DawnFosterlbt: btw, I just bought a couple of the books you recommended - they are sitting on my "to read" stack :)00:51
lbthmm the keyboard is a bit... bouncy00:51
lbtDawnFoster: nice... let me know if you like and I'll get some more picks00:51
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lbtthiago_hel: it's the MeeGo IT ski meetup00:52
thiago_helah, whew00:52
thiago_helI was afraid you meant Helsinki00:52
lbtthiago_hel: *g*00:52
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timeless_w7ipoh01:18
timeless_w7ipfwiw, mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com now has a free text index01:18
timeless_w7ipso basically things should work01:18
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timeless_w7ipi still need someone familiar w/ rpm .spec files to lend me a hand01:19
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berndhstimeless_w7ip: how familiar ?01:21
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Venemotimeless_w7ip: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/A_Short_RPM_Tutorial01:23
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csdblbt, you're in Whistler? Maybe I'll drive up from Vancouver to get some BOSS answers :-)02:00
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timeless_w7ipberndhs: i need to take an arbitrary .spec file and automatically rewrite it02:03
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timeless_w7ipbasically some set of rpm spec files for meego seem to trigger 'configure' and similar as part of 'rpmbuild -bp'02:04
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niala1I can not find Button.qml  on qt examples like02:06
niala1sorry02:06
niala1as mentioned in http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/gettingstartedqml.html02:06
berndhstimeless_w7ip: well, typically they build the package from source, so they run all those steps02:07
lbtcsdb: we're here until saturday... I suppose it would classify as a business meeting...02:07
timeless_w7ipberndhs: right02:08
csdblbt, heh. Write off the whole trip02:08
timeless_w7ipberndhs: right, but i explicitly do *not* want to build02:08
timeless_w7ipand i certainly do not want to configure02:08
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lbtyep... and get a few runs with us too...02:08
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csdbmy snowboard is quite rusty unfortunately. Its been in storage since the first kid arrived...02:09
berndhswhat do you want to do from the spec file ? install something that's been built separately or previousl with the same thing ?02:09
lbtsounds like you need this then02:09
csdbI'm hoping to get the kids interested in it soon so they can "request" trips to the mountains.02:10
csdbenjoy the slopes !02:10
lbtheh ... OK02:10
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dvarnerI'd like to put the latest stable-ish meego image on an aava device. I'm looking in the repo.. which image should I use?02:13
berndhstimeless_w7ip: i mean, the original packager decided that the stage for -bp needed a configure, how is your purpose different from theirs ?02:15
timeless_w7ipmy purpose is to not run arbitrary code on my system02:19
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timeless_w7ipall i want is to have "the patched sources" of the code02:19
timeless_w7ipnot "the totally fucked system"02:19
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berndhsah02:20
timeless_w7ipand i believe that -bp is a contract which some maintainers are violating02:20
berndhswell, could be, I don't knwo what the definition is of what should go in that stage02:21
berndhsusually there is a part of the build that figures out what system its on02:22
ali1234so you just want to apply the patches from the spec file?02:22
berndhsI dont think it is safe to apply all the patches, they are not necessarily for the same target system02:23
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berndhsi have seen spec files with %Patch entries02:23
ali1234that's kind of ... yucky02:24
berndhsbut I wouldn't put it past people to apply patches in some other way02:24
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berndhsalso some spec files contain conditional sections for different targets02:29
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berndhsso the "patched sources" are not necessarily the same for all systems02:30
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timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/cups/cups.spec?mark=242-243,246#22802:40
timeless_w7iphere's an example02:40
timeless_w7ipi claim the author of the spec file is just being stupid02:40
timeless_w7ipaclocal/autoconf belong in %build, not %prep02:40
ali1234file a bug \o/02:41
berndhswell perhaps, but i'm not sure that buys you anything02:42
timeless_w7ipit doesn't buy me anything02:42
aukethen send a patch?02:43
berndhsfor purposes of getting the sources, you don't really know until even after they run %configure02:43
aukerm -rf cups - problem solved :D02:43
timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/OpenEXR/OpenEXR.spec?mark=73-76,79#7002:43
timeless_w7ipauke: so02:43
timeless_w7ipthere are um02:43
timeless_w7ip1435 spec files in repo.meego.com02:44
timeless_w7ipit is not efficient, or practical for me to do this02:44
ali1234timeless_w7ip: you could submit a patch on rpmlint, then all developers will have to fix it themselves02:44
timeless_w7ipand since a new idiot is born every day02:44
timeless_w7ipali: that sounds more promising02:44
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ali1234i have no idea how to make it do that, but... this is what it is for02:45
timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/rpmlint/02:45
timeless_w7ipat least it's in the repo!02:45
ali1234yes, it's even used02:45
timeless_w7ipooh, better!02:45
timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/rpmlint/SpecCheck.py02:45
timeless_w7ipi presume is the right file...02:45
ali1234all meego packages are supposed to pass rpmlint, i think it is in a specification document somewhere02:45
ali1234no idea how it works sorry, i just know it stopped me compiling something one time02:46
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* timeless_w7ip pokes mxr02:46
ali1234"error you spec file sucks"02:46
berndhsyeah but if there is timeless on one side, and 738 packagers on the other ...02:46
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timeless_w7ipberndhs: i should win.02:46
ali1234yeah i know it's not a fair fight, timeless will eat them all alive02:46
timeless_w7ipali1234++02:47
berndhsyou should, certainly :)02:47
timeless_w7ipok, so... sp3000 ... wanna help me hack rpmlint in +11 hrs? :)02:48
timeless_w7ipoh wow!02:48
timeless_w7ipthe page loaded!02:48
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xiambaxlol. I was just reading meego experts02:51
sp3000timeless_w7ip: eek!02:51
timeless_w7ipsp3000: oh, you're awake now!02:52
timeless_w7ipso, i found my culprits02:52
timeless_w7ipthey're aclocal, autoconf and friends02:52
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ali1234http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/rpmlint/SpecCheck.py#27902:56
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ali1234i guess you'd use something like that02:57
timeless_w7ipyeah02:57
timeless_w7ip#283 is closer actually02:57
* sp3000 goes challenge the being awake theory02:58
timeless_w7ipali: is there a strong ordering for spec files?02:59
ali1234i have absolutely no idea03:02
ali1234i think i am allergic to '%'03:03
ali1234can't stand any kind of language that uses them to mean anything but "divide by 100"03:03
ali1234or integer remainder, i'll allow that one too :)03:04
timeless_w7ipheh03:04
timeless_w7ipheh03:05
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timeless_w7ipali1234 / sp3000 / ... : http://pastebin.mozilla.org/111632903:14
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ali1234no check for "configure" itself?03:14
timeless_w7ipyeah just added that03:14
timeless_w7ip:)03:15
timeless_w7ipbut oddly it hasn't turned up in my output03:15
* timeless_w7ip is still trying to figure out how to use it03:15
ali1234what if there is a patch named like "fix-autoconf-blah.patch"03:15
ali1234(not good enough to read regex to tell if you checked for that)03:15
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timeless_w7iphttp://pastebin.mozilla.org/111633403:16
ali1234AAARGH03:16
timeless_w7ipi didn't in the version i pastebinned, i added it right after pastebinning03:16
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ali1234um... so what's the perl thing do?03:18
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timeless_w7ipls /data/mxr-data/repo.meego.com/SPECS/*.spec| ~/spec-parser.pl |less03:19
timeless_w7ipit gives me a subset of spec file crud that i can read03:19
timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/specs.txt03:20
timeless_w7ipis the output03:20
timeless_w7ipif you can see anything else suspicious, lemme know03:20
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timeless_w7ipoh fosh03:22
timeless_w7ipthat's just awful03:22
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ali1234chromium looks pretty bad03:24
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ali1234i think desktop-backgrounds.spec confused your parser or something03:26
timeless_w7ip./build/gyp_chromium -f make build/all.gyp \ ???03:26
ali1234yeah :(03:26
timeless_w7ipewtf03:26
timeless_w7ipi bet desktop-backgrounds doesn't have a build phase03:26
ali1234yeah, if it's just images03:27
timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/desktop-backgrounds/desktop-backgrounds.spec03:27
timeless_w7ipyeah, that's it03:27
timeless_w7iplemme fix03:27
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ali1234eat.spec looks similar03:27
ali1234hum, it has build, but it's empty except for a comment... no prep though03:28
ali1234oh hang on, there is, much later in the file03:28
ali1234i guess there is not strict ordering then03:28
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timeless_w7ipreload the file03:30
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timeless_w7ipali: so...03:34
timeless_w7ipmost people use %{__sed} or %{__perl}03:34
timeless_w7ipa couple just use sed and perl03:34
ali1234aclocal, autoconf, automake, autoheader, autoreconf, configure <- i think those are the main ones03:35
* timeless_w7ip nods03:35
timeless_w7ipthere's also autom4te03:35
timeless_w7ipand a couple of other stupid auto tools03:35
timeless_w7ipi'm just blocking 'auto'*03:35
timeless_w7ip+aclocal +configure03:35
ali1234%configure --disable-static03:36
ali1234(libcreds3.spec:)03:36
timeless_w7ipyeah, i'm not sure what that does03:36
ali1234ah libtoolize?03:37
timeless_w7ipoh yeah, i think that's in my list03:37
ali1234some of these want to patch things *after* the auto stuff03:38
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ali1234like libtar.spec:03:38
timeless_w7ipexample?03:38
* timeless_w7ip ponders03:38
timeless_w7ipthat's wrong03:39
timeless_w7ipit should patch configure03:39
timeless_w7ipno?03:39
ali1234it should, yeah :)03:39
timeless_w7ip(or conceptually)03:39
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ali1234ofc03:39
timeless_w7ipok. so no points for that.03:39
timeless_w7ipthanks03:39
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ali1234but maybe there is a reason why it can't, i dunno03:39
timeless_w7iplibthumbnailers scares me03:39
ali1234well, configured is generated by autotools so it should patch the input files to autotools...03:40
ali1234rather than the output03:40
timeless_w7ipright03:40
timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/libthumbnailer/src/generateproxies03:40
ali1234ah yeah generateproxies, just saw that, it could do anything03:40
timeless_w7iplibthumbnailer runs that03:40
timeless_w7ipthat's evil03:40
timeless_w7iptotally uncalled for03:41
timeless_w7ipok. so. what to do about it?03:41
timeless_w7ipchange to a whitelist?03:41
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* timeless_w7ip does not think this belongs in prep03:41
timeless_w7ipit can go in build03:42
ali1234hmm03:42
timeless_w7ipbut i'm not sure how to detect it short of defining a very limited set of commands03:42
timeless_w7ipwhich is probably more correct03:42
ali1234disallow executing anything beginning with ./?03:42
timeless_w7ipunfortunately some groups use iconv03:42
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timeless_w7ipsold.03:43
timeless_w7ipno [ ]./03:43
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timeless_w7ipconfigure_regex = re.compile('^\s*(aclocal|auto|libtoolize)|(^|\s)\./')03:44
timeless_w7ipactually03:44
ali1234(and configure)03:44
timeless_w7ipoh grr03:44
timeless_w7ipno03:44
timeless_w7ipwell03:45
timeless_w7ipyou think someone will do <sh configure> ?03:45
ali1234it's gonna fail if the tests fail03:45
ali1234which they will if you don't have deps...03:45
timeless_w7ip?03:45
ali1234hmm they might i suppose03:45
timeless_w7ipok, if someone might do <sh configure> then i should explicitly block configure03:45
timeless_w7ipbut the problem is i'm not sure how03:45
timeless_w7ipit's legal to do patch configure < patch03:46
timeless_w7ipwell03:46
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timeless_w7ipmaybe it isn't?03:46
timeless_w7ipyou should use %patch, right?03:46
ali1234well someone might run sed on it03:46
* timeless_w7ip nods03:46
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timeless_w7ipbtw..03:46
ali1234patching autogenerated code is pretty horrible imo03:46
timeless_w7ipis iconv really legit?03:47
ali1234iconv is changing the file formats so yeah03:47
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ali1234the character set that is03:47
* timeless_w7ip nods03:47
timeless_w7ipi know what it does03:47
timeless_w7ipjust wondering about constraints03:47
ali1234i think that counts as a patch03:47
timeless_w7ipok03:47
timeless_w7ipit just seems like it might be better to whitelist a very specific set of verbs03:48
ali1234and you probably don't want weird non printable chars all over your site03:48
timeless_w7iptbh, it doesn't care03:48
timeless_w7ipbrowsers should figure out the type03:48
timeless_w7ipbut yeah, it isn't ideal03:48
timeless_w7ipoh grr03:48
timeless_w7ipdid you see mathml-fonts.spec?03:49
ali1234huh, wacky03:49
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timeless_w7ipthat one sadly is actually correct03:49
timeless_w7ipcabextract is basically ~ tar/unzip03:50
ali1234yes03:50
ali1234but install?03:50
timeless_w7ipand due to licensing issues you can't distribute the fonts outside of the .cab03:50
timeless_w7ipyeah um... no clue about the install lines03:50
timeless_w7ipit's probably about fixing file perms03:50
timeless_w7ipif i were to guess03:50
timeless_w7ipperl-Font-TTF.spec does it too03:50
ali1234is there even anything to wref in these packages?03:51
ali1234*xref03:51
timeless_w7ipwell the spec files themselves are interesting03:51
timeless_w7ipknowing which ttf's are shipped is useful03:51
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timeless_w7ipso yes...03:52
timeless_w7ipeven an icon package can be useful03:52
timeless_w7ipjust to see the icons03:52
ali1234well, don't you need to look in side the binary rpms to find "what is shipped" anyway?03:52
ali1234i mean just cos it's prepped... doesn't mean it ends up in the binary03:52
timeless_w7iptrue03:52
timeless_w7ipbut the thing is that it's generally easier to work from source repos03:53
timeless_w7iphaving a repo which indexes a delivered device would actually be useful in certain cases03:53
timeless_w7ipbut it's much less useful than a reference of the sources for it03:53
ali1234agreed03:54
ali1234openssl.spec:  make TABLE PERL=%{__perl}03:57
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timeless_w7ipis qmake ok?03:58
* timeless_w7ip can't remember03:58
ali1234hmm... nooooooooooooooooooo03:58
timeless_w7ipqt-mobility-mediaservice-dbus.spec:03:58
ali1234qmake generates all those *.moc_.cpp files that no one cares about03:58
timeless_w7ipoh03:58
ali1234(it might do other stuff, let me see...)03:58
ali1234hmm, i have to fail that one03:59
ali1234qmake should be in build if it's just "qmake"03:59
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timeless_w7ipscript/mkversion.sh ?04:01
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ali1234sounds harmless...04:03
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timeless_w7ipit turns out to be04:03
timeless_w7ipbut..04:03
ali1234yeah it breaks ./04:03
ali1234put your horrible script in a subdir and avoid the check...04:04
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timeless_w7ipyep04:04
timeless_w7ipwhich takes us back to chromium04:05
ali1234that's a real mess04:05
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timeless_w7ipi can ban 'make build'04:05
timeless_w7ipit'll just happen to accidentally block them :)04:05
ali1234it's really only one big command that is bad04:06
ali1234so it's atomic, it should be movable04:06
timeless_w7ipyeah, the make build one :)04:06
timeless_w7ipok, let's add 'make build' to the list of no's04:06
timeless_w7ipconfigure_regex = re.compile('^\s*(aclocal|auto)')rnbuild_regex = re.compile('/(^|\s)(\./|libtoolize|qmake|make build)')04:09
timeless_w7ips%/%%04:09
ali1234i got some nasty unprintable chars in that...04:10
timeless_w7ip?04:10
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timeless_w7ipoh s % / % %04:10
ali1234if i repaste it, it'll probably work for you :)04:10
ali1234http://imagebin.org/14070604:11
timeless_w7ipoh, odd04:11
timeless_w7ipoh heh04:11
ali1234it's cr, newline right?04:11
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timeless_w7ipyeah04:11
* timeless_w7ip blames comic chat04:12
ali1234oh i get it, it was two lines04:12
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timeless_w7ipyep04:12
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ali1234hmm... but configure is still missing04:13
* timeless_w7ip ponders04:14
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ali1234related: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/AutoConf04:16
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ali1234seems like this whole thing could be opening a real nasty can of worms :)04:18
timeless_w7ipwell04:18
timeless_w7ipthe problem is the worms are already crawling on my system04:18
javispedrotimeless_w7ip: are YOU using comic chat? or was that some kind of dark reference?04:18
* timeless_w7ip is04:19
timeless_w7ipand i'm going to fail an audit04:19
timeless_w7ipalthough there's not much harm in comic chat04:19
timeless_w7ipthere's quite a bit of harm in running arbitrary code outside a sandbox04:19
timeless_w7iphrm04:19
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timeless_w7ipali: so, they're saying that auto* shouldn't be used in 'build' *either*04:20
ali1234well i think that guy is basically arguing that spec files shouldn't be using them at all04:20
timeless_w7ipwhich means that if i write an rpmlint that has a way to complain for spec04:20
timeless_w7ipfedora could adapt it to complain for build too04:20
ali1234i guess04:21
ali1234see also linked ML discussion, i don't really understand most of what they are saying04:21
ali1234hmm i think they are more arguing about autoconf vs autoreconf than which section to actually do it in04:25
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timeless_w7ipright04:25
berndhswhat's a good forum to ask for collaborators ? General, Community, App Dev Support ?04:25
ali1234berndhs: depends on project i'd say...04:26
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timeless_w7ipali: any idea how to use rpmlint?04:26
ali1234not really no04:26
berndhsI want some designer type, for work flow and artistic merit in a UI04:27
ali1234berndhs: community then, they love that stuff :)04:27
timeless_w7ipberndhs =~ s/work flow/workflow/04:27
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berndhsyes one word for the professionals04:27
gabrbeddberndhs: Perhaps Thorsten Wilms is someone you'd be interested in.  http://thorwil.wordpress.com/04:36
gabrbeddHe's done work around some Linux audio projects (e.g. Ardour, LV2).04:37
gabrbeddI don't know how much coding he does, but he's a good artist and studied in UI design.04:37
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berndhsthanks, I'll check04:39
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ali1234timeless_w7ip: %configure does run configure btw, with all the platform and prefix stuff04:52
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ali1234that, and other such macros are defined in /usr/lib/rpm/macros04:53
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kvirchi all06:05
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kvircanyone here?06:13
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ali1234so, according to this story on infoworld, the atrix really has a CPU inside the "dock" and it doesn't infact all run on the phone, like so many people claimed it did06:35
ali1234http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobile-technology/can-the-atrix-4g-really-become-your-next-pc-843?page=0,206:35
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timeless_officeali: ok, i have rpmlint running09:51
timeless_officethe results are well, interesting09:51
timeless_officeand sadly slightly buggy09:51
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* lcuk peeks in12:32
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mecelcuk \o12:37
lcukRST38h, accepted your linkedin doofer thingy12:38
RST38hyea, seen that, cool12:38
lcukI haven't updated my profile there in a while, perhaps I should12:40
RST38hdepends on your plans I guess12:40
lcukjust for wanting to keep it updated sake12:42
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Venemohello lcuk :)12:46
iekkui should also do something about my linkedin profile12:47
iekkumaybe delete it :D12:47
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fade_I have looked every where through the forums before asking13:31
fade_I can't get empathy to connect13:31
fade_to anythign13:31
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timeless_officeso, rpm/spec people?13:35
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timeless_officeali1234: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1118032 is my current patch13:36
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timeless_officeand http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/rpmlint.txt is the output13:40
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timeless_office(that file isn't indexed right now, but it certainly could be)13:40
lcuk\o hey timeless_office13:40
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timeless_officehey13:41
lcukyou ran lint over everything in mxr? :D13:41
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timeless_officejust the spec files13:41
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timeless_officeit runs relatively quickly all things considered13:41
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timeless_officelcuk: so, that leaves me w/ a few problems:13:42
timeless_office1. i'd like to get my changes to rpmlint integrated into meego's build system - so that my errors would cause packages to fail to integrate until they're fixed13:42
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timeless_office2. while packages do fail rpmlint, i need to do something...13:43
timeless_officeone approach is that i can run rpmlint on spec files before rpmbuild -bp, and if it fails, i can just dump the output into the package source directory and skip the -bp bit, leaving a copy of the unpacked rpm13:44
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timeless_officeanother approach would be to rewrite the .spec file so that things which my rpmlint wouldn't like get dropped13:44
lcukwell a few extra checks on things which are easily identifiable using rpmlint would be useful indeed13:44
Weasel_timeless_office: I thought MeeGo used dpkg packaging, is there some progress going on for changing that?13:45
timeless_officeand the last approach i can think of is a restricted shell which only allows the commands i listed and which doesn't allow perl/python to fork13:45
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timeless_officeweasel: you clearly didn't pay any attn to anything13:45
fade_thanks for your help13:45
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timeless_officehttp://meego.com/about/faq13:45
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timeless_officelcuk: anyway, if you could look over my pastebin, i'd appreciate it13:46
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timeless_officealso, if i could get you to file bugs against the packages tagged by rpm lint for my specific E:, that'd be great13:47
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lcukwhich pastebin?  the rpmlint.txt?13:47
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timeless_officehttp://pastebin.mozilla.org/111803213:47
timeless_office..13:47
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timeless_officenote that the rpmlint i'm running doesn't have access to a real 'rpm' distro, so e.g. the non-standard-group warning is because it doesn't have access to that, not because it's actually wrong13:48
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Weasel_timeless_office: thank you for correcting my misunderstanding.13:50
timeless_office:)13:50
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timeless_officeweasel: of note, just because 'official meego' will use rpm, doesn't mean some braindead vendor won't try to pass off some product that was spec'd 3 years ago w/ some other format as 'meego like' using some other format13:51
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timeless_officebut any such hypothetical product really isn't on topic here imo13:52
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Weasel_I thought MeeGo somehow inherited that design failure from maemo, this is getting ever more interesting os13:53
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timeless_officein principal meego actually got most of the 'right' technologies13:54
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timeless_offices/principal/principle/13:54
infobottimeless_office meant: in principle meego actually got most of the 'right' technologies13:54
timeless_officeunfortunately it turns out that the 'right' technologies aren't sufficiently mature either13:55
* timeless_office kicks rpmbuild/rpmlint13:55
timeless_officeand note: i have the right to kick these things, i write patches.13:55
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timeless_officeoh.. and i generally end up using something more heavily w/in a week than most people do in a decade :)13:56
timeless_officegrrr. my macbook pro doesn't have a touchscreen13:56
lcuktimeless_office, would the rpmlint patch have to be applied to OBS in general13:57
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lcukor to specific build versions (ie configurable from the .ks)13:57
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timeless_officelcuk: well, ideally it'd be integrated into rpmlint upstream and everyone would be asked to upgrade13:57
lcuktimeless_office, lol @ mbp13:57
lcukI was looking at the weekend13:57
timeless_officegrr, lunch time13:58
lcuk\o bon appetite13:58
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* lcuk faffs with new laptop14:28
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timeless_officesp300014:34
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* lcuk unfaffs14:42
lcuktimeless_office, I brought up the rpmlint stuff in #meego-arm14:44
lcuk<Tazpa> hmmh, all of rpmlint messages on that page for my packages are bogus, explicitly allowed by packaging guidelines (well except one but that was created by NMU)14:44
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lcukat least one unexpected nice thing coming out of the Christchurch quake15:19
lcukhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/01/AR2011030100118.html15:19
lcukhandwritten time capsules from 19th century15:19
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janianyone here who might know anything about setting up meego-sdk with nvidia quadro card?  When im trying to start the runtime, i get segfaults and presumably it might be because of gl stuff.15:56
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lardmanjani: I had some problems with Qt apps crashing under Ubuntu16:01
lardmanin fact all Qt apps would crash, I'd have to dig out the bug report, but was solved by skipping a couple of Xorg updates16:02
liwfor reference: ubuntu 10.04 seems to work for me (i386 host, intel graphics)16:02
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lardman(and for me using a patched Xorg in the meantime)16:03
lardmanThat was somewhere around Ubuntu 10.04 iirc16:03
janilardman: well, the issue is that runtime wont start .. i get the segfault immedietly after trying to poweron the runtime and there's entry in the syslog like this:16:04
janiMar  2 16:03:38 helruo-dhcp022206 kernel: [  992.858377] qemugl[3054]: segfault at b7785ff4 ip b76e94fe sp 4aeb6190 error 7 in libGL.so.260.19.06[b7671000+9c000]16:04
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lardmanMy problem wasn't OpenGL related, so must not be the same thing, sorry16:05
janii found few messages that have this same issue and those just seem to pinpoint that the issue is in nvidia side.  which is propably not fixed but i was kinda hoping there would be a workaround =)16:05
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janihttp://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-sdk/2010-November/000460.html16:06
liwjani, do you run poweron with -fg option?16:07
janiyes16:07
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jboshey why was there a update to new telepathy version when core is supposed frozen / feature complete?16:19
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jbosfor 1.216:19
Stskeepsjbos: CCB process, possibly16:20
Stskeepsthings are more regulated16:20
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jbosCCB?16:20
Stskeepshttp://wiki.meego.com/Product_Management16:21
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jbosStskeeps16:43
jbosno CCB16:43
jbosjust random update16:43
Stskeepsthen there was a BMC# attached16:43
jboshttps://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1359316:43
MeeGoBotBug 13593 nor, Undecided, ---, paolo.capriotti, VERI FIXED, update telepathy-qt4 to 0.5.716:43
jbosjust the point they changed interfaces16:44
jbosand functionality16:44
Stskeepsjbos: well, take it up on meego-pm@ ideally, looks a little like sidetracking of program management16:44
jbosi mean i'm glad that they updated, stuff get fixed which was broken for us (or needed to be hacked) - thats a plus16:46
jbosbut still the process is broken and - i fear it might break again16:46
jbos:) and than its not going to end well16:47
jbos;)16:47
Stskeepsbring it up, we're a transparent project :)16:47
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berndhstelepathy-qt4 has class names that are way too long, can I file a bug for that ? :P16:51
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gabrbeddI upgraded my dev unit (Handset UX/Pinetrail) to 20110301.7 via the repos and it now fails to start because of applauncherd crashing.  Possibly a regression of BMC# 13603 or BMC# 12846.16:53
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gabrbeddhowever, my setup is a little mixed... so before I go update bugs...16:54
gabrbeddHas anyone else noticed this?16:54
lcukbug 13603 and bug 1284616:54
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13603 maj, Medium, 1.0.90.3, miroslav.safr, RELE FIXED, Applauncherd crash infinitely (no UI)16:54
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12846 maj, High, ---, tuomas.jarvensivu, NEW, [REG]duihome startup fail.16:54
lcukgabrbedd, I noticed a low level bug relating to booting from usb image16:55
lcukon both netbook and handset builds for my ideapad16:55
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gabrbeddlcuk: Hmmm... this was a HD install on ideapad.16:56
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lcukbug 1395616:56
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13956 maj, Undecided, ---, peter.j.zhu, NEW, [Trunk:testing][REG] Pinetrail Handset and Netbook Images do not boot from USB16:56
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lcukyes gabrbedd I know, but perhaps the same package screwed up on update as what is there16:56
* lcuk does not know the magic required internally16:56
gabrbeddlcuk: ewwww.... that's nasty!16:58
* lcuk nods16:58
gabrbeddSo, it's possible that nobody /has/ noticed it because they can't get as far as I got.  :-)16:58
lcuk:)16:58
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ivan_join #meego17:11
ivan_@join #meego17:11
ivan_urgh, anybody here from meego?17:11
Myrttiwelcome, you've joined #meego17:11
Myrttithis is the channel17:11
ivan_Ah ok, sorry I am useless with irc17:12
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ivan_Have a few questions regarding meego. I am trying to get MythTV to play with meego. As you might expect there are loads of dependencies missing in meego repos.17:13
Stskeepsexamples?17:13
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ivan_hi can anybody help with missing packages in meego? I am trying to get MythTV to play but there are tons of dependencies that are missing in MeeGo repos. Any help would be much appreciated.17:20
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Stskeepsivan_: i just asked if you have some examples of missing dependancies :)17:21
Stskeepsmorn lbt17:21
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lbtmorning17:21
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ivan_well, to start with alsa  audit-libs mysql... but the list goes on and on17:22
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Stskeepsmeego's a tad different, but alsa is there for sure17:23
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ivan_I guess it would be great if there was upstream distro (e.g. openSUSE or fedora) that I can nick packages from. I've tried openSUSE and managed to install a few deps, but many have problems with versions and vendor change17:25
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liwivan_, I have ported a few things from Fedora 14 to meego, by at most minor tweaks to the spec file17:30
liwoh dear, timing17:30
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timeless_officestskeeps: so...18:06
timeless_officei spent an hour trying to understand the factory.config file from rpmlint-Moblin18:06
timeless_officeit's incredibly confusing18:06
Stskeepsdon't know anything about it, just point your rpmlint to there :P18:07
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timeless_officestskeeps: so, i was able to eventually do that18:10
* gabrbedd seems to start trouble everywhere he goes :-/18:10
timeless_officethe problem is that when i added my own warning to rpmlint, it was downgraded from E: to W: by the config18:10
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timeless_officegabrbedd: as long as you help resolve it :)18:11
timeless_officestskeeps: but i can't figure out how to upgrade my W: back to E:18:11
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Stskeepstimeless_office: don't know, maybe cost or something18:11
timeless_officeall i managed to get was an extra (Badness: XXXXX) string18:11
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gabrbeddtimeless_office: eh... I've gotten caught up in a ML thread where the root problem is... "Just what the hell /is/ the MTF?"18:14
timeless_officeoh, that's easy "a disaster that jumped into the open before it could be shot dead while living in a closet"18:14
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gabrbeddtimeless_office: LOL!18:15
StskeepsDeveloping Under Influence? ;p18:15
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timeless_officestskeeps: developing while depressed (SADD)18:15
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timeless_offices/SADD/SAD/18:16
infobottimeless_office meant: stskeeps: developing while depressed (SAD)18:16
timeless_officegabrbedd: so, since i've solved your ML issue, it's your turn to help me :)18:18
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gabrbeddtimeless_office: no, you didn't... but whatcha need?18:19
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gabrbeddjeez... now they're talking about wayland... ready to pull the trigger.18:20
timeless_officegabrbedd: so, given an installed 'rpmlint' and access to a 'rpmlint-Moblin'18:21
timeless_officehttp://pastebin.mozilla.org/1118032 is a patch for rpmlint18:21
timeless_officeif you use that patch w/ rpmlint w/o rpmlint-Moblin on some .spec file which violates its rule, you get an E: line18:21
timeless_officewith the rpmlint-Moblin config file, it becomes a W: line18:21
timeless_officei need help figuring out how to make the rpmlint-Moblin thing treat my E: as an E:18:22
timeless_officei tried adding the obvious line to the rpmlint-Moblin config file, but it didn't do the right thing18:22
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timeless_officestskeeps: so, for some strange reason, using rpmlint-Moblin, my rpmlint output is double spaced18:24
gabrbeddtimeless_office: hmmm... I'm not sure this is a fair trade. :-p18:24
gabrbeddI'll see what I can do.18:24
timeless_officethanks18:24
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timeless_officestskeeps: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/111876218:25
Stskeepstimeless_office: sorry, i'm not interested in rpmlint :)18:25
timeless_officegrr18:25
ali1234wayland will become popular about the same time they can convince nvidia to port their driver to it. so about 20 years.18:25
timeless_officeali1234! help!18:25
ali1234yeah, i read it, i don't know the answer18:25
ali1234where is rpmlint-Moblin?18:26
ali1234the answer must be in that file somewhere18:26
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ali1234have you tried giving your test a badness above the badness threshol?18:28
ali123410000 for fatal checks18:28
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timeless_officeyes18:32
timeless_officeso, the extra random blank lines comes from what seems like a bug in Filter.py18:32
timeless_office-                _diagnostic.append(s + "\n")18:32
timeless_officethat's where the random \n comes from18:33
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* timeless_office sighs18:41
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timeless_officeok, i'm confused18:47
timeless_officeon my system, the obvious setting for badness does yield a useful result18:47
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chinmayaHi .. any updates on NOKIA roadmap for meego divison ?19:29
Stskeepschinmaya: give it time :)19:30
chinmayaStskeeps: the meego smartphone is N95019:32
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berndhsyeah 950 is a good number19:34
CosmoHillMeeGo will run on the Nokia N900 and Nokia Booklet 3G if you tweak it19:34
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bunkchinmaya: Do you have any definite statement from Nokia that their first and only ever Meego device will be a phone?19:46
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gabrbeddbunk: I recommend you read this thread: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=271919:47
gabrbeddbunk: As far as I know, it's the best info avail. re: nokia's upcoming meego device.19:48
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bunkgabrbedd: That's what I'm saying - the only confirmed public information I've ever seen talks about a "device", not a "phone".19:49
gabrbeddbunk: did you read the thread?19:50
gabrbeddbunk: Admittedly it's long... but I think your answer is in there.19:51
timeless_officegabrbedd: i think you lost the train19:51
timeless_officechinmaya is the one asking the question19:51
gabrbeddbunk: Meanwhile, I haven't been tracking the issue closely... so I took the safe route and called it "device"19:51
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gabrbeddtimeless_office: ah.  I see.19:52
gabrbeddsorry.19:52
timeless_officeappologies to bunk, not me :)19:52
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chinmayahttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=95777619:53
gabrbeddbunk: nevermind... sorry!19:53
chinmayasince i had read it couple of days back .. just wanted to check19:53
gabrbeddtimeless_office: did you get your rpmlint thing worked out.19:53
gabrbedd?19:53
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timeless_officeyeah19:53
bunkgabrbedd: I doubt we'll find confirmed information from N's management somewhere hidden in some forum thread.19:53
bunkgabrbedd: No problem.19:53
timeless_officeit turns out that it was working on my computer19:53
timeless_officenot sure how my computer differed from the one i originally tested w/19:53
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timeless_officegabgrbedd: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1119050 is my full set fwiw19:55
gabrbeddbunk: Well, they lost my attention when they said it would actually be a maemo device.19:55
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gabrbeddtimeless_office: cool... glad it's working!19:55
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bunkgabrbedd: I already saw that - N's CTO is shorthly talking about a MeeGo *device* (before starting a long "We told you you should switch to Qt and now we are screwing you - but please continue writing applications for our obsolete Symbian as long as our new incompatible platform is not available.")19:58
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bunk(if I was CEO of N, the device would be a pocket calculator - that would be a win-win situation, since it would not contribute much to competing platforms, and the demotivational effect would reduce the amount of people that have to be expensively fired...)20:02
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berndhsvalhalla says he's joining Intel in April20:06
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Stskeepsberndhs: source?20:06
berndhsvalhalla101 on twitter20:06
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Stskeepsah, no surprises20:07
berndhsit is consistent20:07
CosmoHillisn't he the nokia rep for meego?20:07
* dm8tbr tries to act surprised and fails20:07
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StskeepsCosmoHill: resigned nokia some time ago20:08
berndhsfew days ago I think20:08
Myrttithursday20:08
Myrttiweek ago20:08
CosmoHillwhen he resigned or announced he was joining intel20:09
StskeepsCosmoHill: resigned20:09
CosmoHillwill he have to move house / country?20:09
Stskeepsdunno?20:09
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piercedoubtful, unless he really wants to20:11
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CosmoHillhey Alison_Chaiken20:13
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Alison_ChaikenHey CosmoHill.20:13
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CosmoHillinteresting: this AMD looks to be processor compatible with MeeGo: http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_5528.html20:15
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CosmoHilldo we have any AMD employees in the channel?20:15
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bunkCosmoHill: that's old news20:18
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CosmoHillI only find out when it comes into stock20:19
CosmoHilllooks like it would make a nice little media PC or home server20:21
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timeless_officeali1234: http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/rpmlint.txt is my final output for rpmlint20:25
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CosmoHilldamn that's a big file timeless_office20:31
timeless_officenot really20:31
CosmoHillmy firefox didn't like it20:31
timeless_officereally?20:31
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CosmoHillI have the spinning beach ball of doom20:32
timeless_officeconsider that it's the output of running rpmlint against ~1400 packages20:32
timeless_officeloaded for me nearly instantly (just now)20:32
timeless_officewhat version of firefox?20:32
CosmoHilllatest20:33
CosmoHill3.6.1420:33
CosmoHillloaded now20:33
CosmoHill6525 lines of text there20:33
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timeless_officetry 4.0b1220:36
timeless_officecosmohill: that file is incredibly tame when you consider what other files look like in that tree20:37
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CosmoHill4 has hardware acceleration for graphics / flash, right?20:45
timeless_officekinda20:47
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timeless_officetechnically it does, but practically, if you have to ask, you probably won't get20:48
timeless_office4 will only accelerate stuff if it thinks your graphics driver won't crash20:48
timeless_officeand it thinks most drivers *will* crash (because we have evidence to show that they do)20:48
CosmoHillI think my graphics card is too old anyway for it, it's a ATi 9700 Mobillity20:48
Kevin_Bwhaow quite a relic :)20:48
timeless_officewe don't require graphics acceleration20:48
timeless_officeso you can still use 420:49
timeless_officebut if you happen to buy an nVidia card and insert it later, you can get some acceleration then :)20:49
CosmoHillsunspinder should improve JS performance, but then again so would coding the damn website properly20:49
timeless_officenote to self:20:50
timeless_officehttps://build.meego.com/package/source_history?package=OpenEXR&project=Trunk%3ANetbook20:50
timeless_officehttps://build.opensuse.org/package/source_history?package=openexr&project=openSUSE%3A11.420:50
timeless_office= file bug for build.m.c20:50
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ali1234firefox doesn't crash with nvidia but the performance is much worse than any other driver20:51
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ali1234including "VGA"20:52
ali1234eg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/22323820:53
ali1234(btw, that page itself triggers the bug)20:53
ali1234it takes about 20 seconds to load up on my system20:53
timeless_officeali: can you help me figure out where to file bugs about the spec file for that one?20:54
ali1234which one?20:54
timeless_officehttp://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/rpmlint.txt?mark=1-3#120:54
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ali1234file them on bugs.meego.com?20:55
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aukeoh look what was snuck into the meego kernel config:21:37
auke-# CONFIG_EXT4_FS is not set21:37
auke+CONFIG_EXT4_FS=m21:37
aukethat should make some folks happy :)21:37
niala1:)21:38
Stskeepsfinally ;)21:38
gabrbeddauke for president!21:39
lcukauke, for mere mortals, does that mean that we can stop whining about btrfs and get back to rpm vs deb?21:40
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niala1lcuk: hahahaha21:41
aukewithout anything to bitch about, mere mortals would become extinct in the boredom21:41
aukenote however, ext4 is a MODULE21:41
gabrbeddauke: hahahahaha!21:41
aukeso you still cannot install on ext421:41
gabrbeddlcuk: There's still plenty of time to bitch about NTFS.21:41
berndhsthat's right, there are actually no problems in the world21:42
lcukauke, what does it mean though?21:42
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lcukjust that ext4 is available?21:42
gabrbeddauke: just for /boot, right?21:42
* lcuk only notices filesystems when they corrupt (and hence have to find fix tools) or because they are slow21:42
lcukfor all I cared, there could be little men inside painting grains of rice to store the data on21:43
berndhslcuk: that's how it works, yes21:43
lcuk:D21:43
gabrbeddlcuk: Eh, the tweakers have me futzing around with *buntus and *ndows on the same drives as MeeGo.  So this makes my life a little easier. :-)21:44
lcukgabrbedd, right, so ext4 is a normal Windows partition type?21:44
gabrbeddlcuk: Normal Ubuntu partition type.21:45
lcuk:D and now a little more sense at the enjoyment from the change21:45
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gabrbeddlcuk: btw... I loved the screen shot on twitter.  :-)21:47
lcukgabrbedd, the real thing is bettre, tis a shame it is so simple and cutdown vs Qt/MeeGo though21:47
lcuks/bettre/better/21:47
infobotlcuk meant: gabrbedd, the real thing is better, tis a shame it is so simple and cutdown vs Qt/MeeGo though21:47
gabrbeddlcuk: huh?  I didn't follow the "cutdown" part.21:49
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lcukgabrbedd, that is not qt21:49
gabrbeddlcuk: GTK+ ?  Still cool. :-)21:50
lcukgabrbedd, that is not GTK+21:50
berndhsQt has a GTK+ style setting if you want :)21:50
gabrbeddlcuk: GIMP?  :-p21:51
lcukgabrbedd, that is not GIMP :P21:51
gabrbeddlcuk: look source code21:51
lcukgimp was what gave way to GTK though wasn't it?21:51
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lcukhey bergie - happy birthday \o/21:52
lcuk(yesterday)21:52
gabrbeddlcuk: Yes, GTK means "GIMP Tool Kit", but I was implying that it was just a manufactured image.21:52
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lcukgabrbedd, oh, far from it - the screenshot is just liqbase with a new background picture and handwritten fonts21:54
lcukheres a really short video on my n900 from october 200921:54
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGUKICDeok21:54
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gabrbeddlcuk: Ah.  I saw your posts on liqbase and wanted to check it out...21:54
lcukyeah, often heard, I cannot organise/polish/package anything properly tho21:56
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lcukbut anyway, it has had little done to it since I made those videos, been trying to handle other real things21:58
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* gabrbedd is geeking out over liqbase...22:02
lcukgabrbedd, it was not designed for geeks :P just regular people like me and my son :)22:03
lcuki showed it my mum, and her and jacob were playing tictactoe :)22:03
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gabrbeddlcuk: Whatever, I think's really cool.  :-)22:04
lcukI do too :)22:05
lcukgabrbedd, I am just pleased I finally got my handwriting neat :)22:05
gabrbedddid you do it all in OpenGL or something?22:05
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20110208_002.liqbook.on.meego.ideapad.jpg22:05
lcukgabrbedd, I did it all on my N810, there is no opengl at all22:05
lcukand it still runs happily on there actually22:05
lcukpeople bugged me loads to push an update out :)22:06
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lcukgabrbedd, I am the n00b in all this though, prior to maemo I spent 10 years as a visual basic developer (hence my simple thinking)22:08
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gabrbeddlcuk: is it open source?22:13
* gabrbedd can't find a link to the sources...22:14
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lcukgabrbedd, yes22:16
lcukgithub/com/lcuk22:16
lcukgithub.com/lcuk22:16
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lcukgabrbedd, probably the most clear info page: http://liqbase.net/liqbase.info.txt22:17
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gabrbeddlcuk: ok... got it, thanks!22:21
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gabrbeddlcuk: ok, I see... you're pretty much doing Xlib stuff.22:28
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lcukgabrbedd, yes22:30
lcukgtk was too slow22:30
lcuk(on the n810)22:30
lcukxlib direct was as well22:31
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lcukand the only tearfree option was to draw onto the xvideo surface22:31
lcuk(because videos play tearfree..)22:31
lcukbut that left me with 0 rendering or support features22:31
lcukso I had to write them myself22:31
Tumi_lcuk: nice overview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI22:34
slonobotTitle of Tumi_'s link: YouTube - lcuk liqbase overview22:34
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gabrbeddlcuk: nice!  So how is wayland going to affect you?22:35
lcukhaha Tumi_ :)22:36
lcukthat was my first ever video22:36
lcukback then, everything was monolithic and built in - I did not know how to make a linux library22:36
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* lcuk still uses that build22:36
lcukgabrbedd, wayland appears to be based on simplifications I have called for for years22:37
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Tumi_but still gives me the idea what you're after =)22:37
lcukTumi_, :)22:37
lcukI just released the merging of those 2 things a few weeks ago22:37
lcukthe same book reader UI22:37
lcukbut now using my own handwriting22:37
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20110208_002.liqbook.on.meego.ideapad.jpg22:37
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gabrbeddlcuk: Well, I think Xlib support for wayland is questionable... not sure about Xv.22:40
gabrbeddlcuk: I know wayland is about direct rendering...22:40
gabrbeddlcuk: but I don't know much about Xv. :-)22:40
lcukgabrbedd, no, wayland is not going to support xapps etc22:40
lcukxv is shared memory bitmap22:41
lcukie direct rendering22:41
lcukand gabrbedd - if wayland does *not* support VX (and the YUV video mode in particular) rendering videos will be needlessly wasteful22:42
lcukcpu/battery wise22:42
lcukXZ22:42
lcukXV ffs22:42
lcukgabrbedd, because whilst you can get shader programs in gles to do yuv->rgb conversion, it is a heavy process22:42
ShadowJKYou can do Xv without shm too ;p22:43
ali1234or they could make a new api that does the same thing, but isn't rubbish22:44
* TSCHAKeee is concerned how much work it will be to move LinuxMCE to use Wayland, as we use a whole composite of X apps22:46
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lcuko_O http://www.itworld.com/hardware/138767/cebit-asus-motherboard-box-doubles-pc-case-video23:34
nidOhum23:37
vgradeqt on tegra 2, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJwXZySRMyg23:38
nidOany major compatibility differences between 1.1 netbook and the 1.2 tablet prealpha ux? 1.1 boots fine on my tablet, 1.2 initially looks to boot, and displays what looks like the top left corner of the ui for a fraction of a second then just sits at some blue screen with a triangle on the right side forever23:38
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vgradenid0, tried touching the triangle or sweeping over it?23:40
nidOtried going over the whole screen, nothing does anything - the triangle looks to just be part of whatever background image it's showing rather than something interactable23:40
vgradenid0, I had the same triangle on the joggler. Black screen until I touched.23:41
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lcuknidO, try dropping to terminal (ctrl+alt+fsomething) and opening ui desktop applications23:42
lcuksee what happens, perhaps the compositor screwed itself up23:42
lcukSomething similar to how you describe happened on my netbook build and instead of top bar I got just randomness until I opened something that needed an extra window23:43
nidOi'll give it a shot23:43
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