IRC log of #meego for Thursday, 2011-02-24

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billly123Hi, i could someone point me to documentation (architecture specific) related to Meego IVI system. I searched the wiki and found a couple of pages http://wiki.meego.com/Developer_Guide and  http://wiki.meego.com/In-vehicle/IVI_for_users_and_developers . Are there any more links . Thank you.00:03
Stskeepsbillly123: meego-ivi@ mailing list is active for this kind of discussion :)00:03
Stskeepsfastest way to get to who you need00:03
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billly123ok. thanks.00:05
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Stskeepsi think #Meego-ivi might exist too00:05
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billly123thanks . will check that out.00:07
mwichmann_also try this one: http://wiki.meego.com/In-vehicle00:07
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billly123more info there. thanks.00:10
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vgradearfoll, https://build.pub.meego.com/package/view_file?file=emgd-bin.spec&package=emgd&project=home%3Avgrade&srcmd5=cb8a55d998524c5ed42dacc4cef1bd5b, I'm not sure how this maps onto the edc.intel.com releases00:59
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vgradearfoll, version 1.5.1812 is reported in Xorg log01:11
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timeless_w7ipgrr01:15
timeless_w7iperror: Package has no %description: kernel-adaptation-mrst01:15
timeless_w7ipoh brother01:17
timeless_w7ipthis stupid system uses line configuration characters01:17
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smokuhttps://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=osso-af-settings&project=home%3Asmoku%3Amaego&repository=MeeGo_current_Core_standard  - is it failing on rpmlint?  how can I make it build?01:29
aukesmoku: just fix the rpmlint error and make a -devel package that contains the .pc file01:30
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smokuauke, the point is that this package IS a .pc and nothing else01:31
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smokuit's a -settings package01:31
aukethat doesn't make any sense01:31
aukemake it a subpackage of what it belongs to?01:31
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smokuit does not belong to anything.  it describes the system, so other packages can get info from it01:32
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aukehmm, I see01:33
aukethat does sound highly unusual01:33
smokuMaemo is unusual ;-)01:34
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aukesmoku: is it really a pkgconfig file or something else?01:37
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smokuyes. only the /usr/lib/pkgconfig/osso-af-settings.pc01:37
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aukesmoku: my question was more in the line of, is that file actually a file parsable with pkgconfig, or is it just named/placed that way?01:51
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vgradesmoku, you could try a hammer, http://www.madeo.co.uk/?p=57901:54
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smokui renamed the package to osso-af-settings-devel and it's fine01:56
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TSCHAKeeedamn wtf01:56
smokuand since i refer to it with pkgconfig(osso-af-settings) in other packages, I should be fine :)01:56
TSCHAKeeewhere did vgrade go?01:56
vgradestill here01:57
TSCHAKeeevgrade: have you or arfoll been able to use libva with the latest emgd?01:57
smokuvgrade, thanks for the link. bookmarked :)01:58
vgradeTSCHAKeee, arfoll did some work but said that xbmc build needed work so I did not progress this.  In the meantime intel tablet surfaced which I ported to Joggler and then hildon-desktop from smoku.  Not to mention tegra2 and panda.  Not enough hours in the day02:01
TSCHAKeee;)02:01
vgradesmoku, keep that bookmark for emergencies :)02:01
TSCHAKeeei am looking to get a Viewsonic-G.. worth it? or is there a better choice in the tegra camp?02:01
vgradeyou US right?02:01
TSCHAKeeeyes02:03
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vgradeigo on #meego-arm is working the LG Optimus02:04
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vgradeTSCHAKeee, I've still not seen any info on updated accelerated drivers comming out of nvidia so that will limit any tegra non-android ports02:08
TSCHAKeee:'(02:09
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TSCHAKeeeoh well, I can still do my android orbiter porting work with it and my Nokia N900 on NITDroid02:09
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TSCHAKeeebut seriously, wtf? :(02:09
TSCHAKeeeI thought there were accelerated GPU drivers in linux for tegra.02:09
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ShadowJKI saw a tegra netbook in the shop last week, I'd probably gotten one if it wasn't for the lack of drivers02:14
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TSCHAKeeewhat is that new motorola handset/netbook hybrid running on?02:24
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wmaroneTSCHAKeee: CPU? Tegra 202:25
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wmaroneand there are drivers, but they're for an older version of Xorg than what is in MeeGo02:26
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vgradeTSCHAKeee, Xorg 1.6 for the latest nvidia linux4tegra release02:35
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vgradealso don't assume because a device is running accelerated under android you can use the drivers, you can't02:36
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TSCHAKeeevgrade: oh no, I know you can't.02:42
TSCHAKeeeAndroid doesn't use X02:42
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vgradeTSCAHKeee, it does amuse me when Google get all high and mighty about the evil apple but are playing the same 'lock you in' games02:54
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vgradeTSCHKeee, you might want to check out ExoPC, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BW_7uvIJ_o, intel based so no driver issues02:59
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TSCHAKeeevgrade: yeah, it amuses me too.... I've been looking for the exoPC, but not sure where I can get the damned thing.03:22
TSCHAKeeebut from all accounts, it looks like a pinetrail without a keyboard03:22
TSCHAKeeewhich...how's the battery life on the thing?03:22
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TSCHAKeeevgrade: arfoll: do either of you have a recent .ks for an Archos9?03:48
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ngharoanyway to reclaim my ALT key back04:19
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ngharoalt+left arrow for instance to go back in a browser04:20
ngharocept it keeps flipping virtual terms when i do it04:20
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ngharocould this because X is running on vt2?04:20
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rastermew04:36
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gabrbeddhow do you make the forum show more than 4 posts at a time?05:01
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dan707evening;.06:20
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npmbahahahaha http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-1255449907:25
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AgentBlairstill bitter about the nokia-wp7 deal?07:31
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iekku__morning07:52
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Alison_ChaikenAgentBlair, I don't know who you're addressing, but I for one am not bitter.   Companies do what they have to do, and employees make their own decisions in response.07:53
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Alison_ChaikenHmm, I guess that's *whom* you're addressing. (Should study English grammar instead of suomi.)07:54
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iekkuAlison_Chaiken, you are correct with the attitude, bitter just spoils so much, it's useless07:55
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AgentBlairi was addressing nbm07:56
AgentBlairnpm*07:57
Stskeepsmorn08:00
Alison_Chaikeniekku, the world abounds with opportunity.   Look not to the disappointing past but to the bright and boundless future!  I want giant OLED lighting panels to replace lamps!   I want all walls everywhere to be displays!  A watch will all the functionality of my cell phone! And natch, flying cars.08:00
StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: 'a day made of glass' on youtube is where i hope to take meego08:01
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iekkuAlison_Chaiken, :D08:01
iekkuStskeeps, good morning08:02
Stskeepsmorn iekku08:02
iekkuit feels sooooooooo good to be at work08:03
Stskeepsi'm just happy to be checking out of my hotel room. looking forward to be home at my sofa :P08:04
iekkuStskeeps, sofa is nice place :) and waits you when you'r not at home :P08:04
Stskeepshehe08:05
iekkuyou don't need to feed sofa, or take it out etc08:06
iekkunice pet08:06
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Alison_Chaikenhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cf7IL_eZ38 I wonder if the popcorn, apple and people were all made of glass too.   But seriously, Stskeeps, I've seen a dozen of those "10 years into the future" videos and that's the best one so far.08:08
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StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: yeah, last one that topped my list was a MS one..08:11
StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: transparent amoled exists already, samsung had some demos08:12
jrayhawkI'm surprised they didn't to LCD fabric in that, too.08:12
jrayhawkdidn't do08:12
Alison_ChaikenOverhead OLED lighting panels are inevitable.  They have high enough BW to send data at MHz rates.  ECMA already has a lighting comms standard.08:13
gabrbeddHa, that's a pretty cool vide.  The problem is that displays on horizontal table-tops and vertical walls are ergonomically bad.08:13
iekkuStskeeps, wow, that's nice video08:13
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Stskeepsnow, how do we make it happen with meego? a open, free and easy to adapt to hardware solution is needed ;)08:16
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Stskeepsok, that is a really irritating n900 bug..08:29
Stskeepsi see the window for alarm pop up, before sound starts, i hit cancel08:29
Stskeepsand it closed window, sound continues to play08:29
Stskeeps:P08:30
Stskeeps(ie, no way to stop alarm)08:30
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npmgetting spoiled by the touchscreen and the chrome-touch plugin ... i need to quit trying to scroll text on my regular display with my finger08:38
iekkuStskeeps, uh08:39
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Sicelohi guys :)10:05
Sicelonewbie question here: does meego run on the Nokia 3G tablet?10:05
thiago_homethe Booklet?10:05
thiago_homeit can run, but why would you try? :-P10:06
Sicelook. thanks10:06
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Wellark^Sicelo: Nokia Booklet 3G has Intel GMA500 graphics which is not supported by MeeGo (or anything for that matter)10:13
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Bostikhmm, a (flaky?) 2D driver for GMA500 was just put up on LKML for merging10:15
Bostikjust a minute, I'll hunt down the thread start10:16
Bostikhttp://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=129837844627413&w=210:17
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Wellark^Bostik: cool, I didn't notice that10:23
Bostikit needs quite a lot of love still before it can go in but at least there finally IS a stable-ish starting point for future work10:23
Wellark^"you have 73327 unread messages at LKML" <-- mybe that has something to do with it XD10:23
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Sicelonice discussion... interesting. i did read sometime ago about the GMA50010:24
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timeless_w7ipso err11:30
* timeless_w7ip puzzles11:30
timeless_w7ipcan someone here help me understand srpms?11:30
timeless_w7ipi vaguely understand the .spec file11:30
timeless_w7ipbut i'm wondering about .yaml files11:30
timeless_w7ipof 1434 packages, 670 seem to have yaml files11:31
ReffyHey vgrade11:31
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arfolltimeless_w7ip, yaml files create spec files using the spectacle tool11:31
timeless_w7iparfoll: ok,...11:31
arfollyou don't need the yaml files (because OBS only understands specs), but it's usually nicer to write spec files11:31
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arfollto write yaml files I mean11:32
timeless_w7ipif i have a srpm and it has a spec and a yaml11:32
timeless_w7ipand i use rpmbuild -bp am i guaranteed to get the yaml in the BUILD/whatever dir?11:32
timeless_w7ipor is it possible/likely for the yaml to more or less get lost?11:33
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arfollno, rpmbuild doesn't know about yaml so it will ignore it11:33
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timeless_w7ipso it'll be lost? joy11:33
divanDoes anyone knows Qt app for maemo with translations/localization?11:33
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arfollI'm not too sure if it'll be lost, but rpmbuild wont know what to do with it11:33
divansorry wrong window11:33
timeless_w7iparfoll: so the goal here is to make mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/ the most useful resource it can be11:34
timeless_w7ipsince a yaml file would indirectly contribute to the behavior of the package and since it was in the srpm to begin with, it really should be in the directory that's listed11:34
timeless_w7ipjust as i'd like to include the spec file11:34
timeless_w7ip(the spec file is naturally lost also since it would land in SPECS/ on its own)11:35
arfollyes, i agree, the yaml file would be nice as well as the spec (because yaml may not describe the spec fully - see spec macros)11:35
arfolli'd guess the yaml file wouldn't be treated specially by rpmbuild so i'm not sure where it would put it11:36
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arfollwhy dont you try?11:36
timeless_w7ipwell, i've tried it kinda11:37
timeless_w7ipand it seems to sometimes appear11:37
arfollproblem is, in BUILD/ you get the content of whatever is in the source: part of the spec no?11:38
arfolland the yaml will not be there11:38
timeless_w7iphrm, no, the yaml doesn't appear does it11:38
timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/libresource/ e.g. is missing the yaml file11:39
timeless_w7ipwhereas there is a yaml file for it11:39
arfollcan you not treat the yaml file specially if it exists? (just like you have to treat the spec file specially)11:39
timeless_w7ipthat's what i'm trying to understand11:40
timeless_w7ipoh oops, i'm looking in the wrong tree11:40
* timeless_w7ip sighs11:40
timeless_w7ipsorry, http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/ is the place we're talking about11:41
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timeless_w7ipthe other one is git based which isn't relevant11:41
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timeless_w7ip(well, it is to the extent that i might want to teach mxr itself to parse yaml files to get directory descriptions the way it can for .spec files, but... that's a battle for another time)11:41
timeless_w7ipok, so http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/kickstarter-0.4/ has a couple of yaml's11:42
timeless_w7ipbut they aren't the yaml's  we're talking about here11:43
arfolltimeless_w7ip, i see alot of the spec files are missing, see brassero11:43
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timeless_w7ipyeah, the spec files aren't currently being magically added in that version11:43
timeless_w7ipthere's another improved version of the script where they will be11:43
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timeless_w7ipit's  halfway between a run where it wasn't and a run where it would11:44
arfolland what happens to patches? Are they simply applied being applied to the tarball or are they not shown either?11:44
timeless_w7ipsimply applied11:44
timeless_w7ipthe goal is to reference the result of rpmbuild -bp11:44
arfollok, btw i think the reason those yaml files are there is that they are in the .tarball11:44
timeless_w7ipwhich is roughly how someone looking at a crash stack would need them11:44
timeless_w7ipif you think the patches and other meta junk should be preserved/exposed in some other way11:45
timeless_w7ipi'm open to suggestions11:45
timeless_w7ipbut note that i don't want to keep around the .tar.gz or whatevers11:45
arfollno it seems like an ok way to deal with it11:45
timeless_w7ipok11:45
arfolli dont see how you are going to get away from treating the yaml specifically11:45
timeless_w7ipso consider http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/tone-generator-1.5/11:45
timeless_w7ipyeah, i'm fine w/  special casing the yaml's and spec files11:46
timeless_w7ipthat's not too annoying11:46
timeless_w7ipconsider tone geenrator though...11:46
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timeless_w7ipit has a yaml11:46
arfollyeah that one looks good11:46
timeless_w7ipand! its yaml is +x11:46
timeless_w7ipwtf is it +x?11:46
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arfollbut maybe the yaml creeped in the tarball....11:46
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arfolltimeless_w7ip, yep spec + yaml are in that tarball11:47
arfollbug should probably be filed11:47
timeless_w7ipcan i get you to file it?11:47
arfolltimeless_w7ip, yes sure11:47
timeless_w7ipthanks11:47
timeless_w7ipclearly i can't cite chapter+verse on that yet..11:47
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arfolltimeless_w7ip, btw maybe you could spit out a list of packages with the yaml files inside so we can check if there are more ugly packages?11:48
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timeless_w7ipnormally you'd be able to use mxr's find11:49
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timeless_w7ipbut since there's no find index, lemme pastebin a list11:49
timeless_w7iphttp://pastebin.mozilla.org/109441811:49
timeless_w7ipi presume that the repos/configurations yamls are acceptable11:50
arfollyes i'd guess those are11:50
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arfollcheers for the pastie11:50
arfolli guess it's because the yaml files are in the git repo so when the tarball is made it's left here11:50
arfolls/here/there11:50
* timeless_w7ip nods11:51
timeless_w7ipif you can write a rule describing what files should not be found in the root of one of these directories, i can make my script evaluate it as it builds and spit out the list to a file which it adds to the tree11:52
timeless_w7ip(don't give me the rule now, i have enough headaches to deal w/)11:52
arfolltimeless_w7ip, hard to make a rule though as some yaml files should be there, I think it's best to try and get to them one by one. It's not particularly major either11:53
* timeless_w7ip nods11:53
timeless_w7ipit's a general offer though, not necessarily specific to yaml's11:54
timeless_w7ipsince mxr will have to process all srpms that go into repo.meego.com, and will hopefully be a place people visit,11:54
arfolluhm, it could be very useful, i'll keep it in mind :-)11:55
timeless_w7ipany general complaints about packages which could be calculated automatically could be generated11:55
* timeless_w7ip goes back to getting the yaml's into the list11:55
timeless_w7ipgrr11:56
* timeless_w7ip kicks 'platform'11:56
* andre__ wonders what the "ip" stands for in timeless' nick11:57
timeless_w7ipideapad11:57
timeless_w7ipfrom dublin :)11:57
andre__ah :)11:58
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timeless_w7ipwhich partially explains why this connection dies... the computer goes to sleep!11:58
* arfoll hopes the w7 isn't because timeless hasn't put meego on it ;-)11:58
timeless_w7iparfoll: guilty :)11:58
timeless_w7ipw7 is kinda annoying, when i upgraded virtualbox to some version @work, my w7s started going to sleep too11:59
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timeless_w7ipbecause vbox was like "yeah, i support sleeping", and windows was like "great, i'm tired, i'm going to sleep"11:59
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* timeless_w7ip hasn't tried to find the checkbox to tell windows "please don't go to sleep" ...12:00
timeless_w7ipso, eventually the directories in repo.meego.com will look closer to:12:01
timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/stage-repo.meego.com/source/12:01
* timeless_w7ip grumbles @ the first line of http://mxr.meego.com/stage-repo.meego.com/source/perl-HTML-Tree/12:01
lcuktimeless_w7ip, when it sleeps in windows, does it also disable usb ports12:01
timeless_w7iplcuk: hrm, you mean how would the n900 interact w/ this sleeping ip?12:01
timeless_w7ipdefinitely possible to investigate12:02
timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/stage-repo.meego.com/source/perl-HTML-Tree/META.yml12:02
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timeless_w7ipis that a proto yaml?12:02
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timeless_w7iphrm, nope, seems to be yet-another-module-list12:03
lcukits the most annoying part of laptop sleep cycles - because you cannot close lid and carry on charging n90012:03
timeless_w7ipheh12:03
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timeless_w7ipw/ this you can flip the lid :)12:04
* timeless_w7ip adds lookign for 'abstract' in 'yml' to the todo list12:04
timeless_w7ipooh, or 'ABSTRACT' in Makefile.PL12:05
timeless_w7ipthat might work better12:05
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lcuk2timeless_w7ip, you mean flip into slate mode?12:06
timeless_w7ipyeah12:06
lcuk2if so - that causes havok when you slide it into bag12:06
slaineAnyone using those IdeaPads with an Apple Airport Extreme wifi basestation ?12:06
timeless_w7iplcuk: win-L first :)12:06
timeless_w7ip(works best if you have a password requirement)12:07
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lcuk2reasonable enough :) ta12:07
timeless_w7ipwin-L = lock screen in NT5, in NT5.1+ it's fast user switching if you aren't in a domain or lock screen otherwise12:07
lcuk2ctrlalt+l works too :)12:08
timeless_w7ipnot here12:08
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peerDseerhi12:10
lcuk2hi \o12:10
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slaineActually, is there a switch in the ideapad that disables wifi12:13
slaineWondering if that's my problem12:13
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slaineIs valhalla leaving Nokia ?12:13
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arfolltimeless_w7ip, done: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1382612:19
MeeGoBotBug 13826 tri, Undecided, ---, peter.j.zhu, NEW, yaml files in some release tarballs. Should they be there?12:19
arfollalthough i doubt anyone is going to care much12:19
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* timeless_w7ip nods12:21
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timeless_w7iptechnically that isn't really a complete list, that's only a list of the packages for which my rpmbuild hadn't failed12:22
timeless_w7ipthere are hrm12:22
timeless_w7ipsay 1340 directories in that list, and 1436 or so srpms12:23
timeless_w7ipso there are roughly 100 packages for which i can't speak ...12:23
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timeless_w7iphrm12:31
* timeless_w7ip wonders how acls work on this system12:31
slainereset the bios to factory decaults works12:31
slainedefaults12:31
arfolltimeless_w7ip, before we know what the overlords are willing to do about it it's fairly irrelevant if the list is incomplete12:34
timeless_w7ipgrr12:35
* timeless_w7ip kicks debian12:36
timeless_w7ip"time" isn't included12:36
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* timeless_w7ip has a patch for that on another computer12:36
jumpulaPackage: time12:37
jumpulaPriority: standard12:37
jumpulanot essential, though12:37
timeless_w7ipjumpula: yeah, i went through this about 2 weeks ago w/ someone else12:37
timeless_w7ipso it's already fixed on my primary staging computer, but it isn't fixed in my upstream where everyone gets sources12:37
timeless_w7ip633410-update-search-missing-time12:38
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timeless_w7ipoh, actually, it's only partially fixed, i think12:40
* timeless_w7ip got distracted and probably never finished it12:40
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timeless_w7ipgrr12:41
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timeless_w7ipjumpula: right, so from memory the really fun part about that was that 'which' wasn't from memory portable across unix's12:44
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timeless_w7ipand about the worst command to try to google for is 'which'12:45
jumpulayou're probably using the shell internal time instead of the real time command12:46
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jumpulaso running something like /usr/bin/time gets you the real time command which supports all the options in the man page etc12:46
timeless_w7ipwell, the original version was  a shell script and thus it got the internal time12:46
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timeless_w7ipthe current version is perl and thus it's at the mercy of the existence of /usr/bin/time12:47
timeless_w7ipwhich doesn't exist on debian unless you install time12:47
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jumpulasounds reasonable, yes :)12:49
jumpulayou can always run shell from perl and run time there12:49
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jumpulabut i'd reckon perl has some better (internal) way of doing this12:49
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timeless_w7ipso, the question is,... can i safely rely on shells to provide all of the things that i need12:50
timeless_w7ipor should i look before i leap and gracefully handle missing things12:50
timeless_w7ipe.g. potentially 'uptime' could decide not to be presnet12:51
timeless_w7ips/presnet/present/12:51
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: e.g. potentially 'uptime' could decide not to be present12:51
timeless_w7ipand 'date'12:51
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lcuk2timeless_w7ip, since you can resolve most of the missing pieces, it sounds more like a niggle12:52
lcuk2and something to get used to12:52
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timeless_w7ip'niggle'?12:52
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lcuk2car analogy, having niggles with the car might mean a squeeking noise or wipers broke, but the car still runs.12:54
* timeless_w7ip doesn't have a license let alone a car12:54
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lcuk2have you ever tried to learn?12:54
timeless_w7ipyes, i've had learners' permits12:54
timeless_w7ipjust never bothered getting a license12:55
timeless_w7ipanyway12:55
timeless_w7ipright, the point is that i want my code to be able to work when these things are absent, it's just a matter of deciding how the code should work around the missing cog12:55
timeless_w7ipi'm not specifically complaining about the missing cog, just having trouble deciding the right way to handle it12:55
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lcuk2timeless_w7ip, are you actively packaging this collection of scripts up?12:58
lcuk2ie, can you just add dependencies and let the operator (you or other) install the missing dependencies as required12:59
timeless_w7ipno12:59
timeless_w7ipi'm not going to waste years writing hundreds of packaging scripts12:59
timeless_w7ipand i'm not going to waste years supporting people who installed distro hacked versions of my code13:00
timeless_w7ipnor am i going to spend hundreds of hours calculating all of the possible ways to spell a package name13:00
timeless_w7ippackaging is not the answer. it's just twenty more problems i don't need13:00
timeless_w7ip[hint: don't go there]13:00
ali1234+113:01
timeless_w7ipanyway, jbos: i've finally gotten the update-search.pl version of that problem handled.13:02
timeless_w7ipi'll deal w/ porting/refactoring it later or perhaps sooner13:02
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lcuk2reasonable timeless_w7ip13:06
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* timeless_w7ip goes w/ sooner and finishes it13:31
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timeless_w7ipok, so that problem's done. back to whereever i was before?13:31
timeless_w7ipfor people vaguely wondering what mxr.meego.com will be able to do once it has working indices, http://mxr.meego.com/mxr/ demos find/search/ident13:32
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KevinBHi meego hackers13:33
* timeless_w7ip chuckles13:33
lcuk2timeless_w7ip, you mention on the info page about web crawlers, are the pages correctly marked in robot file?13:33
lcuk2to prevent some at least13:33
timeless_w7iplcuk: please feel free to check13:33
KevinBDon't you think opensource platform blocks commercials opportunity profit?13:34
* timeless_w7ip wonders if comic chat is smart enough to map 'hi' to hand wave13:34
StskeepsKevinB: no, go look at licensing policy at meego.com :)13:34
lcuk2indeed timeless_w7ip :)13:34
KevinBbecause it s kinda easy for a hacker like you13:34
timeless_w7ip(it did that for kevinb's hi)13:34
niala1hi, bon apétit13:35
KevinBmerci :)13:35
Mirvhttp://cannedbypasi.blogspot.com/2011/02/meego-qt-alive-and-kicking.html13:35
KevinBI mean for hackers , a meego platform is like heaven of hacking13:36
KevinBanyway, it didnt stop ihpone app to be sold13:36
KevinBso I guess it would be the same for meego13:36
KevinBWe just need to Democratise Meego13:36
Stskeepsdemocracy? dear god no13:36
KevinBInstall it  on every Desktop we will see13:36
lainwir3domg, no13:37
timeless_w7ipkevinb: i think you need to look at world politics a bit right now13:37
timeless_w7ipa couple case studies:13:37
timeless_w7ip1. the middle east13:37
KevinBwhat's wrong with that13:37
timeless_w7ipwhere the masses are um... well, not particularly interested in any particular things but are happy to be killed13:37
timeless_w7ip2. the middle west13:37
KevinB(I mean by "Democratise" to make it popular")13:38
timeless_w7ip... where um people for some reason seem to support asking for a smaller government so that they won't get the money they need to live13:38
timeless_w7ipi think you want another word13:38
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KevinBDemos -> people , crate -> governing13:40
timeless_w7ipyes, i don't see 'popular' in that13:40
KevinBpopular -> people13:41
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KevinBanyway you get what I meant13:41
timeless_w7ipso, as everyone immediately panic'd when you made your suggestion13:41
timeless_w7ip...13:41
timeless_w7ipthe word you want is ... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/popularize13:42
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timeless_w7ipbut, it isn't a good idea to try to make something popular before it's ready13:42
timeless_w7ipi'm sure there are some good examples of how that fails13:42
timeless_w7ip<hindenburg> ?13:42
timeless_w7ip<titanic> ?13:43
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KevinBmmm to make it popular, we need that people  commit to its further devlopment - in other word everyone can suggest smth and if it s good we take it13:43
KevinBisnt it what open source is? A democracy13:43
timeless_w7ipwe haven't had many major air disasters of late. sure there was a concord and some other french plane off SAm, and a couple of space shuttles...13:43
Stskeepsno, it's open source13:43
Stskeeps:P13:44
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timeless_w7ipmost things tend to work better w/ meritocracy than w/ democracy13:44
timeless_w7ipyou might try reading Lord of the Flies13:44
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KevinBwhat the hell are you talking about13:45
KevinBThe most your work get result, the most what..?13:45
timeless_w7ipheck, one could claim that germany circa 1933 was a democracy13:45
timeless_w7ipbut if people don't actually know enough (e.g. who torched the Reichstag)13:46
KevinBok is it meego channel?13:46
timeless_w7ipthen it's easy to vote for the wrong thing, leading to disastrous consequences13:46
timeless_w7ipthere's also Iran circa 197913:47
KevinBanyway I m just a young noob, wondering if hee makes an app on meego and release it commercial and make 1 € per sell...13:47
StskeepsKevinB: meego does not in any way stop commercial usage or commercial applications.13:48
KevinBor if release it open source will block the market on a side, because it s good app so no one would want to buy the other ones13:48
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Stskeepshttp://meego.com/about/licensing-policy13:48
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timeless_w7ipi believe the general assumption is that eventually vendors will provide stores through which users can procure apps13:48
timeless_w7ipand since users like being able to ask for support, and part of selling is offering support13:48
timeless_w7ipusers can choose to go for a commercial solution, just for support13:49
* niala1 read timeless_w7ip and KevinB and think there is misunderstand with "Democratise" word. I think a false traduction french/english13:49
timeless_w7ipi'll note that even people here have indicated to me at times that they want to pay for support and will do that buy e.g. buying a license for something which could be retrieved for free13:49
timeless_w7ipniala1: "translation" in en :), but thanks13:50
KevinBniala1 it is indeed thogh I dont think the english definition of democratize is far from "démocratiser"13:50
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timeless_w7ipkevinb: even if the historical origins are close, the modern meanings are sufficiently distinct and the connotations significant such that interchanging them is problematic13:51
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KevinBI'll ask an english oxford guy when I'll go to Oxford, one day13:52
timeless_w7ipoed is available online for free this year iirc13:52
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KevinBI just think all basic app, couldnt go commercial13:53
timeless_w7ipof course, finding the stupid password is expensive13:53
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KevinBmaybe I over - emphasize, just feel weird if I'm user that there are 2 simple and god app (like transport app)13:53
timeless_w7ips/god/good/ ?13:54
KevinBgood app and that onee is free and the other is not... OR even open-source should not be free13:55
* timeless_w7ip sighs13:55
timeless_w7ipniala: can you get a better translation for us?13:56
KevinBok it s not clear13:56
timeless_w7ip[libre is terribly confusing when converted to en]13:56
niala1me démocratiser = populaire = popular = communal. but my english is very bad.13:57
niala1kevinB say free/gpl to be more predise13:57
KevinBTo sum up : I'm considering open-source app should not be free on meego13:57
niala1precise13:57
niala1or opensource yes13:57
KevinBif it s free, i m just afraid it may break competition between app13:58
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niala1or free = gratuit = gratuitous13:58
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KevinBbecause open source is sometimes better than commercials13:59
KevinBso it 's 0€ price..13:59
KevinBjust a thought13:59
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timeless_w7ipniala: i don't suppose there's a #meego-fr?13:59
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niala1ah well i don't know i m here to train my english too :)14:00
timeless_w7ipniala: i'll gladly help you (e.g. 'translation'), but there's a limit to my ability to handle broken en14:01
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timeless_w7ipi'm not asking you to leave, just wondering if you could possibly work through the other question in French somewhere else14:01
* KevinB is not in strict ENGLISh mode and is sorry for your brain compiler14:01
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niala1no pb i just reading and google translate.  As you see i m not speaking a lot . :)14:02
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niala1KevinB: ask in french in pv if you want.14:03
KevinBIf there s two app the serves the same purpose. One is open-source (means ususally not bad one and most of the time free(=0€))14:04
KevinBI'm afraid it would brake competition and so people never buy the commercial one14:05
lcuk2KevinB, if that were true (lower price always) then people would not buy Ferraris14:05
timeless_w7ipkevinb, fwiw, s/brake/break/14:06
timeless_w7iplcuk: do they come w/ brakes?14:06
timeless_w7ipgrr, i missed lunch!14:06
niala1KevinB: yes and instead of selling closed software you sell you and your brain, in free/gpl woe14:07
niala1world14:07
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lcuk2timeless_w7ip, I overlooked the spelling.  Go and grab lunch now!14:07
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KevinBWhereas if open source app are sold at leeast for a symoblic euro, it would get things like more equal14:08
KevinBthen even comm. app have more chance?14:08
KevinBIs my argument stupid?14:08
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timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/kernel-source/obs_dont_care.txt <- funny file14:08
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lcuk2KevinB, is that the only potential way to do it?14:09
* lcuk2 has spent time considering how to do this for years14:09
KevinBjust an idea14:10
KevinBto make meego an attractive platform14:10
lcuk2KevinB, if you write a tiny HTML page or something on the wiki that ends up being used by everyone14:10
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lcuk2its not going to be questioned about open source or anything14:11
lcuk2cos its just a silly page14:11
KevinBand the one 1€ would go to an juridic entity that could use reuse it for opensource14:11
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KevinBlcuk2, sorry I dont get extacly the meaning?14:11
lcuk2well KevinB, you are talking specifically about apps14:12
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lcuk2but there are so many component pieces around that are not necessarily apps, but that people have been involved in and helped to fixup14:12
KevinByes, because I keep thinking about, how Meego can be attractive to the (Profit developper)14:13
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niala1there is 'store' for that14:13
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niala1iphone-store like ... ovistore and intelstore (don't remember the exact name of intel store)14:14
* lcuk2 smiles when I noticesomeone fixed typos in the documentation (for instance) or wroteup a howto14:14
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mbatle`niala1, AppUp ?14:14
niala1yep14:15
niala1ty14:15
KevinBa store on closed-platform is more powerfull dont you think so? On open-source platform like Meego people would nt go though store when we ll understand how to get the apps for free14:15
KevinBI mean when the customers will know how to install app by themselves14:16
pexios apps quality is generally quite bad14:16
lcuk2KevinB, I expect that most users of the OS would loath having to goto console to install stuff14:16
niala1KevinB: and a gplworld is not nice?14:16
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pexiterrible ux and 'features'14:16
lcuk2I cannot see my dad pecking through ancient runes14:16
lcuk2well, perhaps actually, but thats not the point.14:17
arfollKevinB, problem with charging for opensource is that who gets the money?14:17
KevinBlcuk2: ok for the console, what when there s just need to click on a deb in fileManager14:17
KevinBWho gets the money need to be a public entity with an object(=purpose)14:18
KevinBAn association of developper building the soft14:18
KevinBJuridic public entity14:18
niala1hardware have the money at least...14:18
arfollKevinB, you're french aren't you?14:18
KevinB:) yes ,what?14:18
bunkKevinB: Android Market is an example of a working market for an open-source platform14:18
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KevinBbunk : 1 point, does ppl really buy app on Android14:19
niala1semi open-source..14:19
arfollKevinB, il y a que les francais pour vouloir une assoc pour 3 pommes14:19
niala1linux fundation host meego if you want an association14:19
arfollKevinB, i dont disagree, but you have to admit thats alot of work just to collect the money. Probably easier to not charge at all14:19
KevinBhéhéhé : Quoi d'autre sinon? (What else could you use) instead of assiciation14:20
bunkKevinB: US$ 102 000 000 revenue on Android Market in 201014:20
KevinByea for example that would be great14:20
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bunk(same revenue as Ovi Store in 2010)14:20
arfollAnyways to me the whole point of meego is that ISVs can make their own appstore and they can grab the 30% revenue14:20
* lcuk2 sighs and goes to sit down laterally on the bench14:21
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* arfoll feels its a shame it's going to be the telco's grabbing that 30% if meego ever gets off commercially14:22
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KevinBWhat about this : If a meego app is distributed through an appstore, it needs to be at least (1€ or else) and the money goes to Linux Fundattion14:24
Stskeepsthat's not very 'libre' is it14:25
Stskeeps:P14:25
KevinBOtherwise , user can install it manually14:25
KevinBfor free or give what they want14:25
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KevinBI just on the app store ppl shouldnt see any 0€ good open source app14:25
KevinBIf they wanna install the open-soft not through appstore, then it s free and on their own14:26
KevinBBut actuallt people would say : ho only 1€... it must be not good... maybe the effect wanted  wouldnt occur14:28
niala1meego is opensource app not necessarily. An app can exist only closed even for gpl/operating system14:28
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niala1an app can just exist on ovi for example14:29
niala1user can buy vuvuzela app $5 on ovi.14:30
niala1well maybe nokia is not the good example :)14:31
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lcuk2niala1, have you got a link to the vuvuzela app?14:34
niala1euh, sorry no is only in my crazy brain14:34
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z6t6c7u8iCIAO A TUTTI !!!!!14:36
z6t6c7u8i |||||||||||||||   NEWS---> http://jrabbit.tk <---  ||||||||||||||||  14:36
z6t6c7u8i.14:36
z6t6c7u8i |||||||||||||||   only ITALIAN RELEASE NEWS---> http://jrabbit.tk <---  ||||||||||||||||  14:36
z6t6c7u8i.14:36
z6t6c7u8i.14:36
z6t6c7u8i |||||||||||||||   WII---> http://jrabbit.tk <---  ||||||||||||||||  14:36
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps14:36
lcuk2shame, its a bit quiet in the house and could do with vuvuzela concerto14:36
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*** Stskeeps sets mode: +b *!*Fressa@95.235.58.*14:36
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KevinBhéhé14:36
*** Stskeeps sets mode: -o Stskeeps14:36
lcuk2hurray Stskeeps, that was quick14:37
RST38h<yawn>14:37
lcuk2there was a reactions interactive exhibit at MOSI, timing between seeing and hearing things14:37
RST38hSoo, gentlemen, any news?14:37
RST38hAre we close to handset 1.2 at least?14:37
Stskeeps1.2? what's that?14:37
KevinBWho wants to answer me : Who wanna developp commercial app, on a open platform where you know there s an opponent app that is at least as good as your commercial.14:37
lcuk2RST38h, yeah, theres an awesome vuvuzela app on Ovi (according to niala1)14:38
KevinBand free14:38
KevinB0€14:38
lcuk2KevinB, wrong question14:38
KevinBThat is the point I mind14:38
lcuk2the devloper should ask: what can I put into my app to add value and give me brand recognition.14:39
KevinBmmmm... and as soon as you add value 2 month after the open one got the feature14:39
lcuk2with 100 fart apps in the app store14:39
lcuk2how do you make yours unique14:39
RST38hlcuk: You record elephant farting ... profit.14:40
lcuk2"elephant farts"14:40
lcuk2decent14:40
lcuk2it should set of the vibration at same time I assume14:40
matrixxdo the fart apps have visual effects yet?14:41
matrixxit could add a value to add brown smudge effect14:41
KevinBXD14:42
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KevinBI get the point : Commercial app needs to be creative, that s the only requirement14:43
lcuk2no14:43
lcuk2there are 50 apps14:43
lcuk2all free14:43
Ans5ifart hits the fan :)14:43
lcuk2which do you choose?14:43
RST38hlcuk: Ok, if you want me to get really medie^H^H^Hcreative, attach the elephant fart to an accelerometer so that it activates every time there is a tram or someone is entering the room14:43
lainwir3drandom ?14:44
lainwir3di'm not going to try all14:44
lainwir3dor i'm going to take the one i saw someone recommand on a blog or something14:44
lcuk2brand recognition14:44
matrixxRST38h: what a great idea!14:44
KevinBthe not free(>0€) one, it must be the good one :D14:44
KevinBI'm a stupid normal customer14:44
* arfoll just received a htc wildfire. guessing no one has meego running on that :-(14:44
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lcuk2KevinB, same question: there are 50 apps14:45
lcuk2all $X price14:45
lcuk2which do you choose?14:45
KevinBI dunoo14:45
lainwir3dcheaper !14:45
KevinBthe most expensive one must be the good14:45
lcuk2all same price14:45
lainwir3doh14:45
lcuk2like music singles14:45
KevinBI'm a stupid customer14:45
* RST38h should open an iPhone app workshop, with great "ideas" like these...14:45
lainwir3dbrand recognition !14:45
lcuk2:)14:45
matrixxI would choose the one which has more features of if no feature differences, then I would choose the one which has most appealing screenshots14:46
KevinBRST38h I follow you, I'm "smelling" som good deal there14:46
KevinB;)14:46
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RST38hLet us consider an application that, when it senses an NFC-equipped device, sends it $5, making the other device send $5 back14:46
RST38hBoth users will get excited after receiving $5 from a total stranger!14:46
matrixx:D14:46
RaimRST38h: lol :D14:47
lcuk2RST38h, did you read what I asked to read last week?14:47
timeless_w7iplcuk: i'd get the one w/ the most farts.. er downloads14:47
lcuk2lol14:47
RST38hAfter all, EXPERIENCE is what we are selling to iPhone users, isn't it?14:47
RST38hlcuk: That was last week. I have done a warm reboot yesterday.14:47
lcuk2RST38h, the stuff I sent out as handwritten14:48
RST38hlcuk: Russian Armed Forces Holiday. State TV celebrated by showing "Black Hawk Down" =)14:48
RST38hlcuk: You know, warm reboot also resets all image information. Audio too.14:48
RST38hlcuk: If you wrote it on a bank check and sent it to me, I would remember it though: bank data is persistent =)14:49
lcuk2nm then :)14:49
lcuk2it was the full text of: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110208_002.liqbook.on.meego.ideapad.jpg14:50
RST38hAha14:50
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RST38hlcuk: Got it.14:51
RST38hlcuk: You have got pretty decent handwriting. So, yea, it is ok if someone sees my email in your handwriting.14:51
RST38hlcuk: I am not so sure about my own though14:51
KevinBluck2, it s a wp ahaaaa eyes re bleeding14:51
lcuk2RST38h, my own handwriting is poor, but just like playing a game14:52
lcuk2you practice until you get it right14:52
* lcuk2 shows first test :14:52
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KevinBho I cconfused coz of the ugly arrow sorry14:53
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lcuk2http://liqbase.net/liq.20081124_225420.gary.scr.png     and in context: http://liqbase.net/liq.20081124_225643.gary.scr.png14:53
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lcuk2so long ago!14:53
RST38hlcuk: Nah, I really prefer it in lifeless ASCII14:55
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lcuk2RST38h, I got to take a little bit more of Tracy to FOSDEM with me :)14:56
RST38hHehe :)14:57
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RST38hlcuk: Take the whole thing!14:57
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lcuk2RST38h, kids and money and complications14:57
RST38hlcuk: yeah, fmailiar =(14:57
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KevinBAnd I keep thinking 0€ app on appstore should be forbidden14:58
KevinBwhatever licence are14:58
KevinBif it s GPL then the 1€ would go to open source fundation14:58
KevinBit s good way to thanks the people that make this piece of art we gonna use14:59
KevinBor it may be impossible, and I' m just dreaming about Fairy tales15:00
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lcuk2KevinB, its good to consider alternatives to current principles15:00
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lcuk2I remember hearing about one of my friends dads.  he wrote an msdos app15:00
lcuk2and released it as shareware15:00
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lcuk2the biggest smile came when he got a cheque in the post15:01
KevinB:) must feel good for sure15:01
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lcuk2someone had actually gone out of their way to read the info screens, write the cheque, head to post office, post it.15:01
KevinBwhat percentage of use is like this?15:03
KevinB*user15:03
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niala1not me... sorry15:04
lcuk2not high, but it could be if it were made as simple as patting someone on back or tipping waiter or taxi :)15:04
niala1maybe paypal if i win loto :)15:04
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timeless_w7ipok, http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/ is now currently generating a set of reasonable sources. it's automatically copying over a spec file (but not the yaml, because i forgot)15:06
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timeless_w7ipanyone here know if there's a policy on directory permissions for sources?15:07
timeless_w7ipsee droid-fonts and dropbear for why i ask15:07
timeless_w7ip(and ctags)15:07
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timeless_w7ipgrr. babl wins a prize for the most lame README first line i've seen this hour15:08
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timeless_w7ipanyone here willing to be my 'tar' buddy?15:11
timeless_w7ipall i want for today is a way to tell tar 'all files should be +r'15:12
timeless_w7ip'ignore the evil ****ards who said files should not be readable by anyone bu the owner15:12
timeless_w7ips/bu/but/15:12
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: 'ignore the evil ****ards who said files should not be readable by anyone but the owner15:12
niala1find + chmod ?15:14
RST38h-o15:14
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timeless_w7ipniala: for 5 files, that's tolerably cheap15:19
niala1find / -iname .tar -exec chmod a+r \;   something like that .... ?15:19
timeless_w7ipfor an entire repository, that's rather expensive15:19
timeless_w7ipit's really just chmod -R +r .15:19
timeless_w7ipbut it's just incredibly expensive15:20
timeless_w7ipwhen the right thing would be a flag to tar saying "do not try to mess with the read bit when you extract files"15:20
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warg-p timeless_w7ip ?15:20
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lainwir3dwell15:20
wargpreserve permissions when extracting15:20
lainwir3dthere is "preserve permission" -p15:20
warg^^15:21
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lainwir3d:-o too slow :-(15:21
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warghrhr15:21
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timeless_w7ipwarg: i suspect that -p preserves the permissions of the files as they're listed in the archive15:21
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timeless_w7ipwhich is basically the opposite of what i want15:21
lainwir3dor maybe changing umode before extracting15:21
timeless_w7ipplease feel free to test and tell me i'm wrong15:21
warg<timeless_w7ip> when the right thing would be a flag to tar saying "do not try to mess with the read bit when you extract files"15:22
warg^ it does that15:22
wargbut if the files were put into the archive as not publicly readable, then they will extract as not publicly readable15:22
lainwir3dumask*15:22
wargso w/ -p you get out what you put in15:22
niala1xargs instead of -exec15:22
timeless_w7ipi don't want what some idiot put in!15:23
timeless_w7ipi want +r no matter what the idiot was thinking. that's the point!15:23
wargno need to shout at me! :(15:23
* warg goes and does something useful15:23
timeless_w7ipsorry, you could help by filing bugs to the idiots :)15:23
wargwhat's bugged?15:23
lainwir3dor spamming them15:23
wargtar? - not, wai15:23
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timeless_w7iplainwir3d: i don't think umask helps either15:24
timeless_w7ipif a command tries to do open 0600, there's no umask that will yield 064415:25
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timeless_w7ipwarg: load http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/15:25
timeless_w7ipeach directory you see without a description is almost certainly bugged15:26
timeless_w7ipin that the packager of that package insisted on 0xx0 permissions for his directory/files15:26
wargtimeless_w7ip, i wasn't referring to anything about meego, i was referring to helping you do what you want to accomplish w/ tar15:26
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timeless_w7ipoh15:27
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timeless_w7ipwell, do you think there's a flag i've missed in tar? i can't find one, -p seems to be "enforce the archive's permissions" which is not what i want, and umask is "try to be stricter than the archive's permissions" which isn't what i want15:27
timeless_w7ipi want "be laxer than the archive's permissions wrt the +r bit"15:28
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timeless_w7ip(it's mostly the opposite of umask)15:28
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wargyou can chmod the appropriate permissions after extraction, or you can before creating the archive so then -p will do what you want.15:28
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timeless_w7ipwarg: if it was 1 file, it'd be fine15:29
timeless_w7ipwe're talking about 1440 packages, none of which i own15:29
warg*shrug*15:29
wargit is what it is15:29
timeless_w7ipeach of which presumably is packaged occasionally and thus needs to be dealt with repeatedly15:29
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wargchances are it'll be world readable anyway, if you don't have a umask blocking it15:30
wargand don't use -p15:30
odin_umask 0002 && tar --no-same-permissions ?15:31
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warg^^15:31
timeless_w7ipodin: sounds vaguely promising15:31
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timeless_w7ipodin: only concern is what happens to the +x bit?15:32
timeless_w7ip(i'm currently using --no-same-owner fwiw)15:33
odin_are you running 'tar' as root user ?15:33
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timeless_w7ipnope15:34
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timeless_w7ipthere are 2 users: timeless [runs tar xf via rpmbuild -bp]; apacche [runs ls, cat via mxr]15:34
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timeless_w7ipthere was a third user for each package, known hereafter as "that idiot who wrote the crappy package"15:35
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odin_I would have thought --no-same-owner only made sense as root, since a non-root user can't create (or give away with chown) a file to another user, some other unix you can do this, usually unix that don't support file system quotas15:35
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timeless_w7ipthe problem i used --no-same-owner for is that packages seem to have random users/groups and tar seemed to complain that it couldn't restore those15:36
timeless_w7ipi didn't need or want its complaints15:36
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* timeless_w7ip should probably just get the source for tar and hack it to support --ignore-requests-to-make-files-unreadable15:37
odin_ok you quash the warning with the option (maybe also restore the successful exit status)15:37
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timeless_w7ipyeah, i think the exit status might have been the key bit15:40
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RST38hlcuk: BTW check out this little guy: http://gizmodo.com/#!5769094/livescribe-pens-lets-you-search-for-info-on-your-written-words15:42
RST38hlcuk: It has been around for a while, and you can write applications for it15:42
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timeless_w7ipany idea what this means: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1094983 ?15:43
lcukyeah RST38h, but not my intent15:44
RST38hA progress message15:44
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timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/search?string=git.meego15:46
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* timeless_w7ip finds the 3 places which talk about git.meego.org!15:46
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* timeless_w7ip is pretty sure the annoying one was mutter15:47
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Jaffaslaine: Belatedly, yes: http://twitter.com/#!/valhalla101/statuses/4075695719540736015:48
Jaffaslaine: (could well be old news now)15:48
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slaineJaffa: yeah, spotted the clarification15:49
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timeless_w7ipanyone here know a "Juhani Hanninen"?15:49
slaineWonder where he's going, the love for meego bit makes me think he's going somewhere were he can be still involved.15:49
* Jaffa wonders, again, what this means for the TSG.15:50
JaffaBut there've been no answers yet, AFAICT.15:50
timeless_w7ipjaffa: hopefully nokia will eventually be kicked off tsg15:50
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timeless_w7iphttp://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/ident?i=QDBusConnection15:53
timeless_w7ipso, people who want to try using mxr.meego.com's xref facilities, the meego.gitorious root has content including a search index and a cross reference15:54
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niala1timeless_w7ip: nice thank you16:02
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timeless_w7ipgrr16:23
* timeless_w7ip bits the stuffing out of rpm, rpmbuild, and evil packagers16:23
sandst1timeless_w7ip: what's so evil about them? : )16:25
timeless_w7ips/bits/beats/16:25
timeless_w7ipone sec16:25
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timeless_w7iphttp://pastebin.mozilla.org/109509716:27
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timeless_w7ipno, you can't build ncurses-libs-x86 without having a fully functional rpm database16:28
timeless_w7ipeWTF.16:28
Stskeeps-x86 is black magic for cross compilers16:29
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timeless_w7ipstskeeps: that's nice of it.16:30
Stskeepsobs tricks.16:31
timeless_w7ipsorry, i'm not amused16:31
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sandst1one lovely feature of RPM is expanding macros even when they're part of a comment16:31
timeless_w7ipsandst1: !16:32
timeless_w7ipsandst1: do they deal any interesting damage by doing that?16:32
timeless_w7ipi.e. can they change the meaning of the comment?16:32
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timeless_w7ipoh, and is '0' a valid version number?16:33
sandst1timeless_w7ip: not the meaning that much but you don't want to have things like %make_install in the comments :)16:34
timeless_w7ipwhy not? what would happen?16:34
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sandst1well usually if sth is commented out at least i tend to assume that row doesn't have any effect to the processing16:35
timeless_w7ipright...16:35
sandst1that has resulted into some interesting errors : )16:36
timeless_w7ipstskeeps: so...16:36
timeless_w7ipi'm very tempted to have this script write its own spec files16:37
* timeless_w7ip wonders what the minimal requirements are to handle spec files used by meego for rpmbuild -bp16:37
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lcukquestion: why do we have different log bots for the different channels?  the bot here on #meego is excellent and offers a web frontend and search facility.  for #meego-arm the logging is not so easy to process and find stuff in.16:52
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timeless_w7iplcuk: more exciting this way16:52
lcuknot really16:53
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lcukI am trying to find out about n900 improvement status16:53
lcukand hoping to actually get the 20% top speed improvement that was discussed in there16:53
lcuk(it seems N900 is cpu locked to 500mhz)16:53
lcukif we can get the kernel flags sorted, we can put the max upto 600mhz, just like maemo16:54
ali1234that's not really N900 related, google for omap 3430 stuff16:55
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lcukali1234, that will not help me16:55
* lcuk not cpu guru16:55
ali1234it won't help you if you're not a kernel hacker16:55
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ali1234but nothing you find on meego-arm will either16:56
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ali1234lcuk your best bet is to look at the diff for power kernel / maemo to see how they do it, and then apply it to meego kernel17:00
ali1234but afaik the problem is meego n900 kernel does not support stepping yet, so you will always be locked to whatever speed17:01
* timeless_w7ip sighs17:01
timeless_w7ipso, i have a spec file17:01
timeless_w7ipfrom here i have no idea of the version of the package17:01
timeless_w7ipand the spec file intentionally doesn't know it either17:01
lcuktimeless_w7ip, lbt ponders the same things17:01
timeless_w7ipreally?17:02
ali1234yeah, lbt has been complaining abut that for months17:02
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timeless_w7ipbtw, can i name a package hello-0-world ?17:02
timeless_w7ip(or rather, can evil packager do that)17:02
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timeless_w7ip(if evil packager can do X, evil packager will do X)17:03
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timeless_w7ipi think i'll try praying that i only have one srpm matching <spec-basename-\d.*.src.rpm>17:03
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timeless_w7ipand using the .* to calculate version17:04
ali1234zypper pa | grep spec-basename17:04
timeless_w7ipand no, i do not look forward to trying to sort version numbers :)17:04
ali1234i was actually doing this just the other day17:05
ali1234of course you need a working rpm database to do that...17:05
timeless_w7ipali: zypper operrates either on rpmdb or <incoming>17:05
timeless_w7ipmy rpmdb has 0 entries17:05
timeless_w7ipdepending on your definition of working17:05
ali1234without rpmdb you are pretty much screwed17:05
timeless_w7ipooh, i know that place!17:05
ali1234i couldn't find a way to parse the rpm names17:05
ali1234you get rpms named like eg bash-017:06
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timeless_w7ipum, eww? got a reference for that? i'm expecting to try to cheat and would hate to hit that case17:06
ali1234oh, actually, that might be because the version had two . in it17:07
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timeless_w7ipyeah, as long as i can assume that a leading digit implies the beginning of versioning17:07
timeless_w7ipi'm fine17:07
ali1234i *thought* that's what my code did...17:07
ali1234but obviously not17:07
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ali1234specifically, i was looking for the last - before a . and splitting on that17:08
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timeless_w7ipyeah, no, i'm pretty sure you want to look for the first -\d17:09
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timeless_w7ipbuild-2011.01.10a-1.2.src.rpm17:09
timeless_w7ip...17:10
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ali1234that's fine17:10
ali1234version = 2011.01.10a no?17:10
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timeless_w7ipyes17:10
timeless_w7ip(.*?)-(\d.*?)-(.*).src.rpm => name, version, crap17:11
ali1234http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/view/4386/parse-an-rpm-name-into-its-components-fast17:11
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ali1234can't confirm it is "right"17:12
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* timeless_w7ip doesn't speak sh()17:12
ali1234what language then?17:13
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timeless_w7ipperl prefered17:14
timeless_w7ipoffhand, rpm=arg; b=strip .*/ from rpm; a=strip .<trailing> from b17:14
ali1234http://rpmtoolbox.sourceforge.net/RPM-Toolbox-Spec/RPM-Toolbox-Spec.html17:14
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ali1234oh wait, that just uses rpm17:15
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ali1234maybe not for the parsing code though17:15
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timeless_w7ipit sure looks like it talks to rpm17:16
timeless_w7ipi definitely don't want that17:16
timeless_w7ipi'm already talking to it, and we mutually hate eachother17:16
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timeless_w7ipcaveats: This class doesn't really parse anything, it extracts information by calling rpm and rpmbuild in various ways and analyzing their output. It takes several passes to obtain all of the fields, so the spec is evaluated more than once. This is quite slow; the "cache" option improves that somewhat.17:16
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ali1234yeah thats no good17:17
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timeless_w7ipyeah, definitely not :)17:17
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timeless_w7ipi'll stick to the sh()17:17
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ali1234personally i would not try to do it with a regexp17:17
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timeless_w7ipoh fsck17:18
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timeless_w7ipyou can have a digit randomly placed after a dash17:18
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ali1234example?17:18
timeless_w7ipxorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-75dpi-7.1-2.1.el5.noarch.rpm17:18
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ali1234heh17:19
timeless_w7ipyour sh() url had it17:19
timeless_w7ipvery nice and happily pathological17:19
ali1234well how about starting at the other end?17:19
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ali1234you can't do that with regexp of course17:19
timeless_w7ipsure you can17:19
timeless_w7ipyou just make things greedy instead17:19
ali1234maybe if you are some kind of regexp wizard17:19
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timeless_w7ip(.*)-([^-]+)-([^-]+)\.([^.]+)\.rpm17:20
ali1234in python i would rsplit on - with limit of 3, giving ['xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-75dpi', '7.1', '2.1.el5.noarch.rpm']17:21
ali1234i don't know perl17:21
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timeless_w7ip$ echo xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-75dpi-7.1-2.1.el5.noarch.rpm| perl -pne 's!(.*)-([^-]+)-([^-]+)\.([^.]+)\.rpm! $1 $2 $3 $4!'rn xorg-x11-fonts-ISO8859-1-75dpi 7.1 2.1.el5 noarch17:21
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lcukFiled a bug about the 20%17:22
lcukhttps://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1383317:22
MeeGoBotBug 13833 nor, Undecided, ---, ulf.hofemeier, NEW, N900 operating at 500mhz, 20% slower than Maemo17:22
ali1234lcuk, i think the point is that 500Mhz was deliberately chosen because scaling does not work, and they don't want to melt people's hardware17:24
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lcukali1234, I know :)17:24
timeless_w7ipali: but we [meego] want to melt hardware!17:24
lcukthat is the "normal" operating speed for the cpu when no power saving is in effect17:24
timeless_w7ipit makes for more sales17:24
ali1234so the bug should really be called "n900 hardware adaptation lacks cpu scaling"17:24
timeless_w7ipand hardware sales are good :)17:24
ali1234and in fact, i bet there's already such a bug17:24
lcukali1234, there is bug 779017:25
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7790 nor, Medium, 1.0.90.4, ilkka.koskinen, ASSI, N900 turns warm quickly after boot17:25
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lcukwhich is marked as a dependence17:25
ali1234another silly named bug17:25
* timeless_w7ip ready koskinen!quickly as 'kittens'17:26
timeless_w7ip=> n900 warms kittens17:26
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timeless_w7ipgrr18:11
* timeless_w7ip kicks rpmbuild18:12
timeless_w7ipso, i have a script, it's running hundreds of rpm builds18:12
timeless_w7ipone of them decides to call patch18:12
timeless_w7ipand patch stops and says:18:12
timeless_w7ipReversed (or previously applied) patch detected!  Assume -R? [n]18:12
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* timeless_w7ip grumbles18:18
timeless_w7ipstskeeps?18:18
timeless_w7ipam i better off setting up an obs system?18:18
timeless_w7ipnot that i want an obs system18:19
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timeless_w7ipit seems like the only way to get this stuff to behave at all is to provide all required deps the proper env, and then use rpmbuild -bp18:19
timeless_w7ip(and then smuggle out the data)18:19
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* timeless_w7ip wonders if there's a bp which skips 'configure'18:22
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mdfehi there, can anybody create me an obs account?18:24
timeless_w7ipmdfe: did you file a bug asking for one?18:24
* timeless_w7ip thought that was the process18:24
* timeless_w7ip sighs18:24
mdfeasking for one18:24
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* timeless_w7ip is totally confused18:25
timeless_w7ipafaik, '-bp' = prep, and '-bc' or something is build and configure is supposedly part of the build phase18:25
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timeless_w7ipso why is it that i see all sorts of things trying to do configure work?18:25
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timeless_w7ip[crickets]19:05
berndhspsst19:06
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timeless_w7iphey berndhs19:07
timeless_w7ipgive http://mxr.meego.com/meego.gitorious.org/source/ a spin19:07
gabrbeddbe vewwy, vewwy twiet.  I'm hunting WABBIT.19:07
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timeless_w7ipit isn't cron'd yet, i'm still waiting for a linux repo to get off its rump and finish integrating, but it should be vaguely useful19:08
timeless_w7ipthe repo.meego.com root is unfortunately further behind in terms of things19:08
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timeless_w7ip(it should take about 20hrs for the linux repo to integrate, and then i can look into cronning it)19:10
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omarjuarezortizHello ?21:34
omarjuarezortizHi everyone.21:34
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omarjuarezortizIs anybode alive ?21:34
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omarjuarezortizHello people... i need some help from a Finnish21:36
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bunkomarjuarezortiz: general IRC rule: ask your meego question and wait22:32
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lcukor play cards22:33
lcukor discuss other things22:33
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henan sattunu eteen :D  http://www.kolumbus.fi/jedi.akatemia/22:35
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thiago_homehena: some of us are Finnish-challenged22:38
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henai have no idea where that came from...22:40
henahavenät even seen that link before..22:40
henaspooky22:40
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vljhi22:53
vljRST38h: hi22:53
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vljRST38h: hi23:03
vljthiago_home: hi23:03
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thiago_homevlj: heya23:04
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vljthiago_home: is it possible to set the compression level of jpeg when using qt-mobility to take shot ?23:04
thiago_homevlj: no clue...23:05
Crash247-Michaelvlj, Not exactly.23:06
vljhmm23:06
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vljCrash247-Michael: is it possible to fine controls the exposure time ?23:07
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Crash247-Michaelvlj, Thats actually a really good question. I am not totally sure.23:09
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vljthiago_home: I saw there was a release of qt for android yesterday... is it an "official" port ?23:11
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vlj"necessitas" framework is it named23:12
thiago_homevlj: we want it to be official23:12
thiago_homeand allow it to be called Qt port for Android23:12
vlj...but ?23:12
thiago_homebut this is completely uncharted territory23:13
thiago_homewe have never had a community port23:13
thiago_homewe need to work with bogdan to get it integrated in the Qt master codeline23:13
vljok23:13
thiago_homeit'll probably happen after the 4.8 branch though23:13
vljhe has done a lot of work to get the thing ported23:13
thiago_homeyep23:14
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thiago_homehe deserves the recognition23:15
thiago_homeoddly enough, because of MS we're now more able to offer him that recognition23:15
vljall of these on his spare time ?23:15
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thiago_homeno fear of industry analysts speculating that Nokia is switching to Android because of it23:15
vlj:p23:15
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thiago_homeyes, all of it in the spare time23:15
thiago_homehe did build upon the Lighthouse port though23:16
ali1234i remember hearding about Qt on android last year, is it the same thing or a different project?23:16
thiago_homethere are a couple of man-years there from us23:16
thiago_homeit's the same codebase that allows Qt to run on Wayland today23:16
thiago_homeali1234: same project23:16
ali1234cool, so no duplicated effort. i like it.23:17
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* vlj would like to see wayland running on his computer23:17
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ali1234well, the analysts will still speculate that all nokia's "ecosystem" developers will switch to Qt on android... i know i will never touch any MS or apple stuff23:20
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thiago_homewhy would people want to run Qt on Android? I mean, the tech is good, but why use the middleman?23:24
thiago_homeQt only makes sense if you're reusing code from other platforms23:24
thiago_homeor if it's the native, which is the case of MeeGo23:24
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vljthiago_home: it might have sense if you developp desktop/android apps23:26
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thiago_homeour strategy is: your business logic stays the same, in C++; the UI in QML is very easy to change, but you're supposed to adapt to each system23:26
thiago_homebest integration requires work to integrate23:26
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thiago_homebut that's my point: if someone is writing just Android apps, why would they bother with Qt?23:27
ali1234if i've spent two years writing Qt code for symbian, and then I have a choice between rewriting it all in silverlight or whatever, or just porting the existing code to android... guess which one i pick23:27
vljmaybe for the same reason that people does rather use qt than pure symbian c/c++ coding ? :p23:27
thiago_homeali1234: ah, in that case yeah23:28
vljI have no idea if android is easier (or not) to code than symbian23:28
thiago_homeI thought you meant new developers23:28
ali1234no i meant the existing developers writing stuff for ovi store23:28
thiago_homeeither way, it doesn't increase Qt's attractiveness23:28
ali1234in my opinion Qt is currently the best option for writing cross platform code23:29
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* bunk was surprised that N does not intend to use Qt on WP23:29
ali1234more platforms therefore is always a good thing23:29
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ali1234bunk: me too, it seems logical, i mean Qt already has a windows mobile port...23:30
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thiago_homebunk: the official party line is that N wants an undiluted offering for WP, which already exists for all devices. That's MS Visual Studio.23:37
thiago_homewe speculate that MS had some saying about it. Anyway, that's off-topic (not MeeGo talk)23:37
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