IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2011-01-11

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Mekhmm, on the community obs, what does "blocked: source update running" mean? as this is a package that afaik hasn't had anything changed for well over a month...00:12
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* lbt notices his hilights...00:41
lbtqgil_:  politeness pong .... but I'm about to go to sleep :)00:42
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qgil_lbt: sweet dreams, I'll ping you tomorrow00:45
lbt:)00:45
qgil_:))00:45
lbtFYI ... vacation over so fresh and ready for some action ;)00:46
lbt(after some snoozing!) .... 'night00:46
CosmoHillnight lbt00:46
dsampleqgil_: what's the best time to catch mrshaver on IRC?00:46
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qgil_He is in Portland / PST, but less sure about IRC00:47
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dsampleok.  I just don't want him taking my replies on bugzilla like I'm trying to be annoying on purpose :o)00:48
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qgil_dsample: It's not easy to annoy him - I can tell  :)00:48
dsamplefantastic, I'll try harder next time then ;)00:48
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dsampleqgil_: I'm heading the development of our company's development platform, and I'm trying to use the MeeGo community as a 'good example', but it's sometimes hard when we're talking about site navigation00:50
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dsampleI end up going back to the Maemo site, or having to find some other examples around the web00:50
qgil_dsample: funny, you catch me drawing a pencil mockup for http://wiki.meego.com/Marketing/Meego.com_1.2_update/Homepage#Content  :)00:50
dsamplewhen you say pencil, do you mean Pencil, or pencil and paper? :)00:51
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qgil_dsample: pencil and paper00:52
Myrttitalking of pen and paper, we were just in a restaurant where table cloths were replaced with brown paper and they had a pot of crayons for each table too.00:53
Myrttiand incidentally, we discussed the Sunnyvale Nokia office.00:54
qgil_Myrtti: cool - sitting (t)here right now00:54
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dsampleNot sure yet, but there's a possibility we could be in Sunnyvale/Santa Clara for a year, depending on what other option gets the most votes00:55
Myrttioh yes, news. Hell froze over today and I installed (BY COMPILING AND MAKE INSTALLING1111!!!) qtcreator today.00:56
MyrttiI feel like a winner00:56
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Myrttifun times ahead00:56
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Myrttidocumentation monkey turns into a coder... so far it looks like a distant dream00:58
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GAN900Myrtti, be careful or you'll make the universe implode.00:59
vgradehi gqil_01:00
MyrttiGAN900: inorite?01:00
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vgradehi qgil_01:01
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qgil_hi vgrade01:01
Ans5icoding is documenting01:01
vgradeprogress on the wetab01:02
CosmoHillAns5i: only if you use comments01:02
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Ans5imy code *documents* itself :)01:02
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vgradeqgil, 16 degrees in koln yesterday, bit of a change from my last visit01:03
MarcA-Nhello all :)01:03
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qgil_vgrade: 16? that was the temperature in the Kneipe when I was there  ;)01:09
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Alison_ChaikenMyrtti, at Bell Labs the napkins in the cafeteria had a grid for graphing printed on them back in the day.   Nowadays an empty UML model would be better.01:22
MyrttiAlison_Chaiken: http://www.uistencils.com/collections/frontpage01:23
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Alison_ChaikenMyrtti, perfect!   It would be cool if we could get Nokia caf to actually use those on napkins.01:24
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MyrttiAlison_Chaiken: you know, it would help if there was a stencil for Nokia products... erhm.01:26
freeedrich|maybe someone here can help me, since Meego Live did work from SD card. My current kernel fails to find /dev/sdc2, where root resides..01:26
Myrttianyway, it's way way late in Berlin, so nitenite and toodeloo01:26
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freeedrich|Any idea? I'm loading grub from /dev/sda1 - but I'm getting Kernel panics trying to boot root=/dev/sdc2 - it can't find them (eeePC 901) it finds the two SSDs on /dev/sda and /dev/sdb just fine though.01:27
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freeedrich|I'd guess it's some kernel problem here. But I put most MMC/SD related stuff builtin already and usb-storage as well.01:28
freeedrich|So.. I'm asking maybe I'm missing out on something?01:28
vgradeqgil, before the pub, I was a lot colder drinking Glühwein in the Christkindlmarkt01:30
RST38hMoo, Myrtti, how is life this year?01:30
MyrttiRST38h: surprisinly not with a flu01:30
Alison_ChaikenMyrtti, we should use the Qt widgets: awesome!    I'm going to make an official request of the Qt marketers.01:30
RST38hThe flu is just waiting for the moment where it can do the most damage! =)01:31
Myrttianyway, srsly sweeties, I need my beauty sleepses01:31
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thiagoAlison_Chaiken: I'm in the Sunnyvale office now01:33
Alison_Chaikenthiago, if you will be around next weekend, come to my Mountain View party benefitting Linux Foundation and featuring beer, candy and MeeGo.01:34
thiagono, I'll be at home01:35
Alison_Chaikenthiago, I sent an email to Chuck P. and Tom M. about Qt stencils.01:35
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thiagochuck is probably tired after driving from las vegas01:36
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thiagothey set off at about 17:00 yesterday01:37
qgil_dsample: as promised http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11513#c501:39
qgil_dsample: or the same mockup, in context: http://wiki.meego.com/Marketing/Meego.com_1.2_update/Homepage#Content01:40
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pupnikyou're a hero qgil_01:44
pupnikfor people like me01:44
pupnikthese nokia employees who are just doing it for the money01:45
pupnikwell... they are ... useful01:45
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Alison_Chaikenpupnik, your ability to read the minds of Nokia employees is remarkable.    What motivates dogs and Eskimos and algal life forms?  ;-)01:59
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pupnikAlison_Chaiken: it's the nature of large organisations02:00
pupniknokia is like a government02:00
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CosmoHillwould meego be like the UK government?02:02
CosmoHillwho's tony and who's lib dem?02:02
CosmoHilltory*02:03
berndhspupnik: I recommend the excellent BB King song "Nobody Loves My But My Mother"02:03
pupnikok02:05
RST38hpupnik:Man, you are being too deep =)02:06
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* ljp doesn't think there are any Nokia employees doing it just for the money...02:07
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pupnikhey you know what02:11
pupnikthe us govt is going to try to reintroduce the 'alien and sedition act of 1917"02:12
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pupnikpeople who criticize them will go to jail lol barbeque02:12
pupnikfuck it all.  go farm02:12
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RST38hcoool02:13
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berndhsyeah farming is cool, and so are barbeques02:14
pupnikand you'll have a job if you work for the military02:15
pupnikif youre scared of being murdered... here's a PROTIP.  You're going to DIE anyway...02:19
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pupnikso don't be scared...02:21
diabolhi all02:22
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CosmoHillpupnik: if you're gonna die, die fighting02:26
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StefanB7Hello02:30
CosmoHillhi02:31
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CosmoHillI have this effect on people :(02:31
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Ulf_Just kidding! ;)02:33
CosmoHillO.o02:36
pupnikhey CosmoHill me and my friends made the first 3d accelerated game02:36
pupnikand we used redbook audio02:36
pupnikfor my soundtracks02:36
pupnikand intel distributed my music with every retail MMX cpu02:36
pupnikthis was when 3d was new02:37
CosmoHillwas it around the time I started school?02:39
pupnik199402:39
CosmoHillwow, it is02:39
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diabolw00t, thats from before i had my first computer02:40
diabolwhich was 9502:40
diabolgood times02:40
CosmoHilldiabol: are you excited or are you talking to w00t_ ?02:40
diaboli am excited xD02:40
diabolintentionally missing the underscore there02:41
pupnikother people made better music02:42
CosmoHillpupnik: kudos btw02:43
pupnikty02:43
CosmoHillto give you an idea, in 1994 I couldn't ride a biike02:43
pupnikif you can get the money - buy some vmps speakers from brian cheney02:44
CosmoHillI'm happy with what I have02:44
pupnikyeah cheaper speakcers are pretty good now02:44
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CosmoHillyou're assuming I have cheap speakers :p02:45
CosmoHill[00:30]  <StefanB7> Hello02:45
CosmoHill[00:31]  <CosmoHill> hi02:45
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CosmoHill[00:31]  <CosmoHill> I have this effect on people :(02:45
CosmoHilloh firefox you shit, copy when I tell you to!02:45
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CosmoHillhttp://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/amp/DSC_0198.JPG02:45
pupnikwell speakers are 1/202:47
pupnikthe other 1/2 is the room you build around them02:47
CosmoHillhttp://black-flag.co.uk/files/battlestation-lcuk.jpg02:47
CosmoHillit;'s my bedroom so things are limited02:48
CosmoHillinfact I can't really do anything with my room02:48
RST38hOMG he has got Macs all over the place02:48
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vgradehttp://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=15776&postcount=1802:51
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diabolbtw, is there a halfway reliable way to run meego in say, qemu or alike?03:01
CosmoHillvgrade: *makes noise of acknowledgement*03:01
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mortenmjdiabol: yes03:06
diabolis it in the wiki?03:07
mortenmjdiabol: yes03:08
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CosmoHillcyas03:09
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diabolmortenmj: thanks. thats all i need to know :D03:09
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vgradeCosmoHill, you are the Cambridge man, hope so see you there :)03:10
dotblankis there a way to use the mad toolkit for both meego and maemo simultaneously?03:10
dotblankI noticed targets for meego only03:10
dotblankand outdated maemo targets03:10
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amjadmorning07:15
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* lcuk turns the lights on in the channel10:22
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slainelcuk, I was warming up the coffee pot10:27
slaineit's ready now10:27
lcukthats certainly a good idea10:27
lcukI pondering having a run over the glossary10:28
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/Glossary10:28
lcukit seems a bit bare in places10:28
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lcukstarting with A, we have "ATM"10:29
lcukI am going to add "ARM" first :)10:29
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* lcuk ponders adding http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture too10:31
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lcukso the glossary for "A" now contains Architecture, ARM and ATM10:34
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/Glossary#A10:34
lcukif anyone can think of others, speak up or edit now so that we can get it filled up :)10:35
* lcuk moves onto B10:35
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/Glossary#B10:35
lcuksince I know we have people in #meego-arm working on beagle-boards, I shall add that10:36
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lcukanother one I hear mentioned is BOSS10:39
* lcuk adds that10:39
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lcukI would add broadcom into there too10:41
lcukbut I cant find all the pages about it10:41
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Stskeepsbroadcom is a company10:42
lcukit seems the glossary has no "C" entries at the moment10:42
lcukStskeeps, sure but its also a topic that comes up10:42
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lcukI wonder whether we need Compliance in the glossary10:43
Stskeepsprobably10:43
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timeless_mbphey?10:45
timeless_mbpwhat's the sudden rush to verify bugs?10:45
timeless_mbpor who let the [bug-hounds^W]dogs out?10:45
timeless_mbphttp://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=370210:45
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: verification of if bugs were fixed is a good practice, i'd say10:46
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lcuktimeless_mbp, thats a good thing, I was asked to test the mic on ideapad bug this morning. bug 1053210:47
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10532 nor, High, ---, ting.z.zhou, NEW, No audio input from microphone on meegoconf netbook10:47
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* lcuk moves onto "D" in the glossary http://wiki.meego.com/Glossary#D which has DirectUI only atm10:47
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Myrttimjäh mjäh aw goddammit this coffee is just awful10:49
Tm_TI want coffee too ):10:49
lcukthen add Coffee to "C" ;)10:49
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lcukI am however adding http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot to "D"10:50
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Tm_Tlcuk: let's make it Koffee instead10:50
lcuk /kick Tm_T10:50
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* Tm_T huggles lcuk10:51
lcuk:D10:51
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lcukany other Meego "D" entries for the glossary?10:54
* lcuk moves onto "E"10:55
lcukanyone know a specific page for the eeepc since thats a well supported meego netbook device10:56
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lcuki would like to add EMGD since those are mentioned often10:58
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lcukbut I also cannot find anything official10:58
Stskeepssearch for intel emgd10:58
lcukyeah I am trying to link to official meego pages10:58
lcuki can find forum threads and stuff10:58
lcukbut they arent really a clear source of documentation or info10:59
dwd_http://edc.intel.com/Link.aspx?id=3747 ?10:59
Stskeepswhat official meego pages?10:59
Stskeeps:P10:59
lcukStskeeps, well its the meego glossary11:00
dwd_Actually, that's a redirect to http://edc.intel.com/Software/Downloads/EMGD/11:00
lcuktheres someone saying that emgd drivers can be installed from ivi packages11:00
lcukhttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=192711:00
lcukI am trying to avoid external links11:01
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lcukwe need the EMGD drivers for the Nokia Booklet to run Meego Netbook don't we?11:01
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lcukok, added initial entry for now11:04
lcukis it fair to add a note to say that Intel EMGD drivers are not yet part of the standard release images?11:04
lcukmoving onto "F"11:06
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lcukhurrah11:06
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lcuk"Fremantle" and "FOSS"11:06
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lcukI think can leave "F" as it is, I cannot see any other things which stand out11:08
lcukthere are no "G" entries in the glossary at the moment11:08
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/Glossary11:08
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lcukI however will add "GMA500" since that is used in lots and lots of devices11:08
lcukand is asked about an awful lot11:09
Myrttilcuk: I'd say that if the subject is of hardware, the vendors site should be ok11:09
Myrttilcuk: atleast for verifiability11:09
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lcukMyrtti, yes, but if people are wanting to know how it relates to meego specifically11:10
lcukmorning lbt11:10
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* lcuk slides over coffee11:10
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lcukwhat does GMA actually mean?11:10
Myrttilcuk: if your page doesn't explain what... EMGD is with sources, the whole page is a bit pointless11:11
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lcukMyrtti, yes I have linked through11:11
lcuk;''EMGD (Embedded Media and Graphics Driver) ''11:11
lcuk: are Intel graphics drivers required for a number of netbook class devices http://edc.intel.com/Software/Downloads/EMGD/11:11
lcuk: Currently not part of the standard netbook release images.11:11
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lcukI think similar for GMA500 will be fine11:12
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lcukthe GMA500 and EMGD are linked and related afaik arent they?11:14
lcukie you need the EMGD drivers to use with the GMA500 hardware?11:14
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lcukoops, have to do a dash to the shop, will continue this in a few minutes \o11:16
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* lcuk ponders heading back to "B" to add bacon11:30
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lcukok, back to the Glossary11:37
lcukI have added GMa500 entry but calling back to EMGD for how it needs to be used11:37
lcuk"H" http://wiki.meego.com/Glossary#H has many entries already11:37
lcukfor Harmattan and related things, but no specific entry for "Handset" which I will cure now11:38
lcukI wonder if "Hibernate" should be on there11:40
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lcukI guess its in the OS but on certain devices it does not work as expected ;)11:40
lcukor is that sleep?11:41
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lcuk"I" http://wiki.meego.com/Glossary#I  Offers "IIRC"11:41
lcukwhich If I recall correctly is not the only "I" related item11:42
* lcuk tries to think of a meego related "I"11:42
lcukahh yes11:43
lcuk;''IRC (Internet Relay Chat) ''11:44
lcuk:one of the key collaborative areas for Meego working and discussion11:44
lcuk;''Intel''11:46
lcuk: principle founding company (along with Nokia) of the Meego project11:46
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lcuknow onto "J"11:48
Tm_TJuma juice?11:49
lcukI don't think "joggler" counts really, but people keep trying to install latest meego on it (its stuck by EMGD afaik)11:49
lcukTm_T, :D11:49
Tm_Tone can tell I haven't got much sleep lately11:49
lcukone of the benefits of irc is you could be in your PJs now11:50
lcuknow, "K" entries11:51
lcukthere are none at present11:51
lcukbut I know loads of people ask about .ks kickstart files11:51
dwd_lcuk, Gosh, should I put some PJs on, then?11:51
lcukanyone got a neat short one liner describing them?11:51
dwd_lcuk, "Kickstart files provide a list of packages and settings to use for automated installs."11:52
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dwd_Assuming they're the same things as existed in RHCL all those years ago, anyway.11:52
lcukthat sounds right, thanks dwd_ \o11:52
lcukand "Kernel" will be added too11:54
lcukI am thinking linking it to http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_kernel_documentation_for_contributors11:55
lcuk;''Kernel (linux)''11:55
lcuk: is the core of the operating system and without which we would not have Meego! http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_kernel_documentation_for_contributors11:55
lcuk;''Kickstart files (.ks)''11:55
lcuk: provide a list of packages and settings to use for automated installs. http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation11:55
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* lcuk ponders "Kernel (gnu/linux)" but leaves it for others11:56
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lcukhmm, "GNU" should also be listed in "G" I did not mentio nthem11:57
Tm_Tlcuk: Kernel has not much to do with GNU I'd say11:57
lcukhence me leaving it11:57
* lcuk moves onto "L"11:58
lcukwhich has11:58
lcukLSB (Linux Standard Base):11:58
lcuk    The goal of the LSB is to develop and promote a set of open standards that will increase compatibility among Linux distributions and enable software applications to run on any compliant system even in binary form.11:58
lcukare we actively working towards LSB?11:59
lcukbecause a binary built for meego may not necessarily work on other Linux distros?12:00
lcukStskeeps, do you know anything about LSB?12:00
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lcukhmm I should ask on meego-dev ML12:07
StskeepsLSB ARM is lacking, at least12:08
Stskeeps(afaik)12:08
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lcukStskeeps, ok - should I file a bug to find more info etc or just post onto the ML?12:09
Stskeepslook into what LSB prescribes first12:10
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lcukStskeeps, surely it would be better having a discussion amongst folks who know and can understand the specifics.  I am seeing internet searches saying that meego should be lsb compliant12:12
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lcukso if you think its not, a bug would be the way to address it12:12
lcuk(or to at least kickstart the discussion)12:12
dwd_lcuk, The LSB is supposed to provide package portability amongst Linux distributions, strictly speaking, rather than binary (although binary compatibility is a subset of that).12:13
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lcukdwd_, reasonable, from a portability aspect, I gather it means standard folders and locations for components12:14
dwd_lcuk, For MeeGo to be LSB compliant, it'd need to have core packages installed in the right places, have RPM, and other stuff to support LSB packages being installed on it.12:14
lcukbut since there are so many ABIs in use and even different chipsets having binary compatability would be impractical12:15
dwd_lcuk, I'd say that would be pointless, given that LSB packages tend to only exist for third-party server products, and the very occasional bit of enterprise desktop stuff.12:15
lcukhttp://bugs.meego.com/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=LSB12:16
lcukok, theres already a group of bugs relating12:16
lcukand discussion ongoing12:16
* lcuk moves on12:17
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lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/Glossary#M12:17
lcuknow the M category has many many more entries than the rest of the glossary :)12:18
lcuk"N"12:18
* lcuk adds a specific entry for Nokia :)12:19
lcukand N90012:19
lcukand netbook12:19
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lcuk"O" seems to be well stocked12:28
* lcuk ponders "Packaging (rpm)" or "RPM (packaging)"12:29
lcukhmm should PulseAudio be mentioned here, is it used on all UXes?12:31
lcukI know its mentioend a lot12:31
lcukmentioned12:31
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lcuk== P ==12:41
lcuk;''PulseAudio''12:41
lcuk: is the low level sound system component used by Meego http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/TestSuite/PulseAudio_Test_Plan12:41
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lcuknot ideal, but enough to let people know what PA is12:41
lcukerr12:42
lcuk;''PA (PulseAudio)''12:42
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ariesI follow the instruction(http://wiki.meego.com/User:Stskeeps/10_easy_steps_to_a_local_OBS) to start a local OBS server in vmware, but failed to boot the obs-server, it hangs after "Initializing ramdom number generator"12:48
ariesIs there sth I have missed?12:48
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lcukaries, Stskeeps might have an idea13:00
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lcuklooking at the rest of the glossary, it seems pretty reasonable13:01
lcukhttp://wiki.meego.com/Glossary13:01
ariesOk, thanks13:01
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lcukand thanks to Stskeeps dwd_ Tm_T and others in various irc channels for input on the terms13:02
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dwd_lcuk, Oh, don't thank me, I was just making you spell rude words down the right margin.13:04
aries:)13:04
lcuk:)13:04
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lcuk"I have discovered a truly marvelous rude word that this margin is too narrow to contain" - dwd_ 201113:05
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sivangmorning all13:28
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lcukmorning sivang \o13:33
sivanghey13:35
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lcukhttp://games.slashdot.org/story/11/01/11/0649219/Hank-Chien-Reclaims-emDonkey-Kongem-High-Score13:45
lcukawesome, people still play donkey kong13:45
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poutsisomeone humor me with trivia: why does the fs in the meego raw images start at offset 512?13:48
Stskeepspartitions?13:48
Stskeepsit's a whole sd card :)13:48
poutsiso there's a partition table in the bytes?13:48
Stskeepsyes13:48
poutsiokay, kinda guessed so :) thanks13:49
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poutsiup here in powerpoint central we're all estranged from all this lowlevel stuff like "filesystems" or whatever you call them13:50
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Stskeepsthere's supposedly a level above powerpoint central where people have powerpoints handed to them to present13:51
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poutsithat's the one where everyone has a wired telephone and a secretary to answer it?13:52
Stskeepsand emails get printed out13:52
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lcukpoutsi, we sometimes wonder why powerpoint images start at page 512 ;)13:52
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lcukStskeeps, email?13:53
* Myrtti checks13:53
lcukspeaking of such matters13:53
lcukis there a ppt to qml conversion tool?13:54
lcukso that we can use latest tech and projectors to present from our devices :)13:54
poutsiuuh13:54
Stskeepswrite your presentation in mql13:54
Stskeepsml13:54
MyrttiI thought Nokia and derivatives was the powerpoint central13:54
Stskeepsqml13:54
poutsisomeone should fork landslide and make it output qml presentations13:54
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lcuk:)13:55
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MyrttiI suppose the bridge between ppt and qml isn't too wide13:56
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poutsihmm... I have a couple of lectures coming up13:56
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Myrttiif I had been given an euro everytime I've seen Powerpoint been used to make UI mockups, I'd be a rich and leisurely lady13:56
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Myrtti*hurrrrr*13:57
* lcuk smiles at email and goes finding out who to chase up13:57
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ScriptRipperping lbt15:48
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berndthi all15:49
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lcukhey berndt15:50
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prusnakandre: andre__: ping15:51
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andre__prusnak, pong15:51
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berndtlcuk, What is the weather like? :D15:51
Alison_ChaikenHuomenta.  lbt or X-Fade, any chance that I may beg an account on the Community OBS in order to make a build of 1.1 for the WeTab: http://wiki.meego.com/Installing_MeeGo_Handset_image_on_WeTab_Tablet ?15:52
lcukberndt, its reasonable today15:52
lcukthe sky was a deep blue earlier15:52
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lcukshame it was clouds :S15:52
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berndt^^15:54
* lcuk wishes he had camera15:54
lcuk(it was when I nipped to shop earlier)15:54
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Alison_Chaikenlcuk, I must visit the gym.    Can you please pick me up a community OBS account while I'm out?    No one seems to object, and qgil is waiting on me, and I have meetings most of the day.16:11
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X-FadeAlison_Chaiken: What is your username?16:13
tvainiowhat's the preferred way to deploy .wav files with a meego qml application? Looks like SoundEffect cannot read wavs from qrc:s...16:13
StskeepsX-Fade: 'alison', if she left already16:13
Alison_ChaikenX-Fade, my user name is "alison" and this is my current project: http://wiki.meego.com/Installing_MeeGo_Handset_image_on_WeTab_Tablet16:13
X-FadeAlison_Chaiken: Done.16:13
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lcukAlison_Chaiken, heh :)16:14
lcukhave fun at the gym \o16:14
Alison_ChaikenThanks X-Fade, I will try to use the new account as an excuse to bail on today's meetings!  Which are 10 hours partly about the demo I won't be creating because I'll be listening to people talk.16:15
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X-FadeAlison_Chaiken: Use your wetab in the gym then :)16:15
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berndtX-Fade, good idea16:15
berndt:D16:15
Alison_ChaikenThanks lcuk, heavy things are sitting on the floor idle and we just can't let them be.   WeTab is no good for gym as long as the USB HIDs must be plugged in.   Nähdään.16:16
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lcukX-Fade, we need a meego ecoach :)16:19
X-Fadelcuk: sampo already has a Qt version.16:19
lcukcoupled with the bluetooth things I heard being added to n900 kernel, can use heart monitors etc16:19
lcukX-Fade, so who makes rpm packages for it?16:20
X-Fadelcuk: Qt Creator? :)16:20
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tobsnhey there! can you please have a look at my problem: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=2438 Perhaps anyone can help me?16:29
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andre__tobsn: describing your problem here makes it more likely to get an answers instead of expecting 500 people to click your link to find out16:37
tobsnalright, i'll try16:38
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tobsni've got a netbook without usb-boot-supply an would like to install meego.. i used my desktop pc (win7) to create a tftp + dhcp server. now i would like to install meego via pxe, but i can't address the essential files from my prepared meego-usb-stick, because i'm using dos.16:40
tobsngot it? my english skills are not good :/16:40
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gobbewhich netbook doesn't have usb-boot?16:45
gobbei believe all pc's sold in past 5 years have had usb-boot16:45
tobsnyeah, but i've got one :/ even with bios-update there is no support16:45
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jsvtobsn: i think the qa-tools (#meego-qa-tools) guys did some work for automated installs with pxe16:58
jsvsee here : http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/QA-tools/Autotest-guide16:58
jsv(esp. section 6.2)16:59
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tobsnjsv: but isn't it necessary in this guide, that both stations run with meego?17:03
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jsvno idea, but i don't think it should matter17:07
tobsni think, it matters because i must handle .tar.gz files. perhaps i should try to set up a virtual server running with fedora. i'll try it now17:10
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Kaadlajkyou dont need meego or fedora, ubuntu works also17:20
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tobsnanother problem: i created a virtual machine and formed a virtual harddisk out of the meego.img. now meego freezes in the first installation screen (where you can choose from "boot meego, installation only and boot from local drive") any solutions?17:54
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FxIIIis http://meego.com down?18:06
X-FadeShort answer, yes.18:06
araujoseems so18:06
FxIIIk18:06
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FxIIIany mirror out of there?18:06
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tobsnhm, the forum is still alive18:09
FxIIIno way to get the image for x86 right?18:11
DawnFosterwe're working on the meego.com server issues now18:11
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FxIIIDawnFoster: a notice here when the server is up will be appreciated !18:14
DawnFosterwill do18:14
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FxIIIthank you!18:15
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lcukFxIII, which image, netbook or handset?18:18
lcukeither way, yeah they are up18:18
lcukhttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.1.80.13.20110105.1/netbook/images/meego-netbook-ia32/18:18
FxIIInetbook18:18
FxIIIwhow!18:18
FxIIITY lcuk18:18
lcukhttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.1.80.13.20110105.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-pinetrail-mtf/18:18
lcuklatest 1.2 dev images for handset and netbook (afaik anyway) if I am wrong someone else can confirm18:19
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fiferboylcuk: Those look like the latest18:20
lcuk\o ty18:20
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lcukits good job because I downloaded them to check bug fixes18:20
lcukmic issue in netbook with ideapad is supposed to be fixed here18:20
lcukif it is, then it will be backported to 1.1 (according to the bug meeting earlier)18:21
lcukie, bug 1100318:21
lcukwhich is a clone of bug 1053218:22
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10532 nor, High, ---, ting.z.zhou, NEW, No audio input from microphone on meegoconf netbook18:22
lcukhm18:22
lcukbug 1100318:22
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11003 nor, Medium, ---, vivian.zhang, NEW, Build-in MIC of Lenovo s10-3t doesn't work18:22
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* lcuk gives meegobot a bacon butty18:22
fiferboyOooh, I have been waiting for the mic issue.  I just updated and will boot to test it out soon18:23
lcukawesome18:23
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FxIIIi want to install the os in a sd card18:29
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FxIIIwhen i did this with ubuntu I saw that the grub was installed on the root partition for the hard disk18:30
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FxIIIunless specified in an advanced menu18:31
FxIIIis the same with the meego x86 installation?18:31
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FxIIIbye to all!18:39
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jedixAnyone know anthing about terminal mode?  Is there any VNC or UPnP client being worked on?18:58
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DawnFosterFYI: meego.com is back up19:12
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DawnFosterwe were having some server / hosting issues this morning, but things seems to be returning to normal.19:13
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fiferboylcuk: The mic isn't working for me, but I screwed around with it so much previously it isn't really surprising19:35
lcukfiferboy, on the images mentioned earlier?19:36
fiferboylcuk: Yeah, but I upgraded my previous install to the current image instead of doing a clean install19:36
lcukyeah, I have done numerous upgrades since the conf19:37
lcuktime for an image change19:37
fiferboyI'm thinking so too.  Just need to back up my data and partition with a separate home partition next time19:37
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lcukfiferboy, I would really prefer a method of backing up entire system back onto a usb stick19:38
lcuk(that I could then use for reinstalling from after faffing19:38
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lcukkind of like how microsoft windows cds can be slipstreamed with services packs ;)19:39
fiferboyThat would be nice.  I'll settle for the separate partition for now19:39
lcukdownload and install XYZ, do whatever updates and installations and then space providing, put them back onto the install media for later use19:39
fiferboylcuk: Your way would be better, because I have some system modifications I will have to rack my brain to remember and reinstall on the fresh system19:40
aukeis anyone seeing that 'less' is broken in Trunk?19:41
lcukfiferboy, why do you think I wanted writeup for the desktop stuff :)19:41
fiferboyGood point.  I should have been keeping track of my customizations as I went19:42
fiferboyAt least my packages are on OBS now for easy install :)19:42
lcukroger19:42
lcukthanks for reminder tho19:42
lcuki think i have some tweaks needing pushing somewhere19:42
fiferboyauke: What is broken about it?  It is working for me...19:43
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aukegrrr19:43
aukeit's time to reinstall my meego dev box again19:44
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aukestuff is inexplicably breaking19:44
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fiferboyauke: My install has been upgraded to trunk ~15 times, so it may not be good a reference19:44
fiferboyBut inexplicable breakage doesn't sound good19:44
aukemine probably over 50 times19:44
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fiferboyauke: Yeah, probably time for a clean install :)19:45
aukeit feels like readline is broken19:45
aukeand since zypper also uses that... it refuses to ask me for confirmation now19:45
fiferboyzypper was broken for me for quite a while19:45
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aukezypper always worked fine for me19:46
lcuki don;t know about broken, but it certainly is slow19:46
fiferboyIt wouldn't update repos properly due to curl not supporting resume or some such19:46
lcukfiferboy, remove the .repo files to a subdir19:46
fiferboyThat was the first sign I needed a fresh install, but I got it going again19:46
lcukrefresh19:46
lcukreinsert them19:46
lcukrefresh19:46
fiferboylcuk: Exactly what I ended up doing19:47
lcukand many go away19:47
lcukperhaps we should file a bug now mention that19:47
fiferboyActually, I think I deleted all the zypper related files in /var/cache19:47
lcukbut I tohught it was down to network crap19:47
lcukand i couldnt describe it properly19:47
fiferboyYeah, I thought the server was having trouble for a while19:47
fiferboyIf I come across it again I will file a bug with the error messages19:47
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andyrossfiferboy/auke: I'm not sure I've ever done more than one update on an install, and that usually just to test the update stuff. :)  In the modern world, it seems easier just to reinstall...19:48
fiferboyandyross: I kept putting it off because I didn't want to offload my downloaded files (and I should have laid out the partitions better initially to avoid that)19:49
lcukandyross, reinstall regularly is fine for testing development progress19:50
lcukbut real users do not like losing their files19:50
lcukor config19:50
lcuketc19:50
fiferboylcuk: /etc, you mean?19:51
lcukfiferboy, no I mean in general, whole system config including apps installed and data written and mods made19:51
fiferboy:P You missed my joke19:52
andyrossreturn -ENOSARCASMONLINE;19:52
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qgilHi, I'm looking for feedback about the (rough) meego.com homepage I drafted yesterday - see http://wiki.meego.com/Marketing/Meego.com_1.2_update/Homepage#Content19:56
qgilcomments are welcome at http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1151319:57
qgillbt_away: please ping me wjen you're around19:57
qgilX-Fade: ping19:57
* Myrtti pokes dsample once he comes from work ;-)19:59
smokuif I build an RPM package on Fedora 13 the package ends with .fc13.src.rpm - do you know where is this f13 coming from and is it configurable?19:59
qgilMyrtti: is dsample working with you?20:00
berndhssmoku: its the %dist in the spec file20:01
smokuberndhs, so I should be able to override it in ~/.rpmmacros?20:01
berndhsi don't know where it comes from20:01
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Myrttiqgil: no, he takes care of my accomodation when I'm in UK and I his when he's in Finland ;-)20:02
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qgilMyrtti: soundssustainable  ;)20:02
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smokuberndhs, /etc/rpm/macros.dist - overriding by ~/.rpmmacros worked. thank you very much :D20:03
lcukqgil o_O dare I ask, are you going to make a qml mockup of that also? :O :D20:05
Myrttitalking of qml20:06
Aardehheeeeee20:06
Aardeeeeu20:06
lcuktho picking up a pencil is really a great way to do layouts :)20:06
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qgillcuk: I could (this Qt Designer for Qt Quick actually reminds me that ol' Fireworks web designers used years ago) but I'll let the real design to a real designer20:06
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Myrttishould the qtcreator come with qmlviewer? I just installed Qt Creator from the 64-bit Linux .bin and I can't find it.20:07
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qgilMyrtti: I got stuck in the same point back in November20:07
lcukqgil, yeah its a nice set of tools :)20:07
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lcukMyrtti, I somehow forgot to thank you for your help this morning btw \o20:09
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* lcuk stomach rumbling anyway, pizza time. bbl \o20:10
Myrttilcuk: np, bon appetit20:10
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Myrtti*sigh*20:15
MyrttiI fail in google-fu20:15
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smokuberndhs, by chance do you know the name of the macro responsible for package Vendor?20:25
berndhssmoku: no sorry, but if you find out, let me know :)20:26
smokuberndhs, ok. I just did: # rpmbuild --showrc | grep -i vendor20:27
smokutada :)20:27
berndhsi think it was mentioned here while ago20:27
smokuberndhs, well.. I found it finally reading the whole "man rpmbuild"  :D20:28
diabolwait, meego uses rpm? o.O20:28
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berndhsreading teh documentation? how pedestrian :)20:28
smokuyup.  I was deperate20:29
smoku"If everything else fails - read the instruction manual."20:29
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smokudiabol, you look surprised20:29
berndhsyeah last resort20:30
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diabolaye20:30
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diaboli supposed it uses apt like maemo20:31
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smokudiabol, no. it's RPM based. like Moblin it's based on20:46
* lcuk giggles at old bugs being a duplicate of newer ones20:49
lcukspace time continuum20:49
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diabolsmoku, that is a major turnoff for me :D21:00
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smokudiabol, for me it was to at first.  then I had to package few things and I realized that RPM is not something I was trying a decade ago and is actually pretty nice21:11
smokudiabol, it went a long way and now I prefer it over dpkg21:12
smokulcuk, if the new one has a better description it's reasonable to bend the time :D21:13
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poutsior if the new one has patch attachments before it's spotted or something21:29
poutsihad that happen to me on launchpad just the other day, wtf'd a bit at first21:30
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diabolsmoku: maybe you're right, ill see when i get around to install meego21:31
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CosmoHillevening all21:32
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vgradehi CosmoHill21:36
vgradenot much response to the Cambridge meet forum post, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=15776#post1577621:37
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vgradethinks of where to advertise to get more interest21:38
vgradeqgil, DawnFoster, any suggestions?21:39
DawnFostervgrade: Hmm, I retweeted it from the meegocom account.21:40
CosmoHill"meet the man (or woman) behind the nick!"21:40
qgilvgrade: in my opinion the secret is not to get obsessed on the first meetup's side, but to get obsessed on organizing one meetup every month, growing gradually21:40
CosmoHillvgrade: have the meetup21:40
CosmoHillthen brag about how AWESOME it was afterwards21:40
CosmoHillthen more will come to the second21:40
wmaroneand keep pestering ARM, their response was disappointing ;)21:40
DawnFostervgrade: i'd focus on reaching out to mobile people in Cambridge who might be interested.21:40
DawnFosterit's hard to reach a specific geography on the forums.21:41
DawnFosterI have the same issue with Portland, too BTW.21:41
vgradeDawnFoster, saw the retweet thanks21:41
DawnFosterAs long as you get a few people, you'll be fine.21:41
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vgradewmarone, I can see why ARM don't want to be seen to be favouring one particular group,21:42
vgradeDawnFoster, Yes, I attended the first Koln meeting, making the corum up to 521:43
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DawnFostervgrade: for the last portland meetup, only a couple of people RSVP'ed and then we had about 10-15 people, so you never know who will show up21:45
qgilvgrade: also the forum posts mentions a date, but what about an hour and a place?  :)21:47
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* lcuk is trying to work out if he can come to it but its 300 miles away :P21:48
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DawnFosterqgil: excellent point. vgrade - people will rarely commit to attend until you have a time and place nailed down21:49
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DawnFosterand I've found that people rarely commit to attend until the event is a day or 2 away.21:50
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lcukCosmoHill, you are heading to the meet too?21:51
CosmoHillprobably not21:52
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CosmoHillthe best you can get from me is me going "sod it all! where's my keys"21:52
StskeepsCosmoHill: you have to prove you're not an AI someday ;)21:52
lcuklol Stskeeps21:52
lcukfor a while we thought that about you :P21:53
poutsia well-trained megahal can be pretty convincing21:53
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lcukhey spyro \o21:57
lcukhow is Cambridge this evening? :D21:57
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CosmoHillspyro: the dragon?21:57
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lcukCosmoHill, spyro the meego qemu dev and ivi hacker !!21:58
CosmoHillnot as cute but just as awesome21:59
lcukindeed21:59
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spyroAha!21:59
spyrohiya :)21:59
CosmoHill\o.21:59
spyroI'm busy atm... but I'll be around tomorrow :)21:59
spyroPleased to meet you :)22:00
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DawnFosterI still think CosmoHill is a bot, since no one has ever seen him in person :)22:00
CosmoHillmeh22:00
CosmoHillI've had people think I was a woman before22:00
lcukwhat do you mean, before?22:01
CosmoHillon a previous occasion, someone thought I was a lady22:01
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* csdb is away: downtime22:02
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lcuki will bring a round back22:07
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DawnFosterCosmoHill: people assume I'm a dude all the time - If you work in open source or tech, people just naturally think you're a guy22:09
lcukDawnFoster, do you know of any werewolf type games which involve multiuser telco/video call capabilities22:09
aukeDawnFoster: but but22:10
CosmoHilleven with the name Dawn?22:10
CosmoHilllcuk: one strongbow please22:10
DawnFosterCosmoHill: interestingly enough, yes :)22:10
aukepeople think I'm a woman sometimes22:10
aukeconfusing first name22:10
aukealso, last name makes people think I'm asian22:10
DawnFosterlcuk: I know someone who plays werewolf over IRC somehow, I think22:10
CosmoHillauke: what is your last name?22:10
aukekok (dutch for cook)22:10
aukevery common asian last name22:11
CosmoHillisn't "murder" and an anagram of "dream" in dutch?22:11
vgradeqgil, place and time TBA, just thought I would get a date22:11
aukeCosmoHill: it is (moord - droom)22:11
lcukDawnFoster, o_O22:11
lcukthats not such a bad thing22:12
lcukbut as you know the body language is part of it22:12
DawnFosterlcuk: if you google irc werewolf, there are a few options.22:12
lcukperhas if we could get a game which ties in irc and voice fragments22:12
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DawnFosterauke: yeah, the first time I saw you in real life, I was surprised you weren't Asian :)22:13
aukehaha yeah, then I turn out to be a tall dutch guy22:13
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aukeespecially the looks from our chinese colleagues is fun, first time I meet them22:13
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qgilauke: although being Dutch and tall is not a surprise per se22:14
CosmoHillDawnFoster: you should have started the sentance with "I'm not racist but..."22:15
aukeqgil: for a dutch person (male) of my age, I'm not even tall - just average22:15
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qgilauke: indeed. I guess the lack of mountains gives that advantage,. the rest is just the usual evolutionary process22:16
aukeI blame dairy22:17
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lcukvgrade, how many different devices have you got that boot meego now??22:22
CosmoHillapart from DawnFoster, I've assumed your all dudes22:23
CosmoHillapart from maybe Myrtti22:23
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lcuklardman has let on that he wears a dress sometimes22:23
DawnFosterand don't forget Alison_Chaiken :)22:23
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lcuki think theres even photographic evidence somewhere22:23
CosmoHilllcuk: really? at this time of year?22:24
CosmoHillDawnFoster: her too22:24
CosmoHilllcuk: you're not trying to trick me into thinking that lardman is a cross dresser are you?22:25
CosmoHillcos that's the kinda thing I'd do22:25
lcukhang on, the internet never deletes stuff22:26
lcuklemme see if I can find it22:26
CosmoHillso the first meego person I ever get to see a picture of is gonna be a dude in drag?22:27
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gobbeis anyone on channel artistic and creating meegons?-)22:29
CosmoHilllcuk: at the moment the idea of you explaining THAT bookmark to your wife is making me giggle22:29
lcuk:D22:29
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lcuklardman, found it!22:30
lcukhttp://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/1.jpg22:30
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CosmoHillahahhhh my eyes!22:30
Arrigimonyour eyes can't handle unknown users?22:30
CosmoHillI just got shown an image before you joined22:31
CosmoHilllcuk: which one is he?22:31
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lcuksecond from left22:32
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CosmoHillinteresting22:32
* lcuk wonders whether he is trying to delete it from server now :P22:32
CosmoHillnow if I ever meet him I'm gonna imagine pigtails on him22:32
lcukirc logs are totally awesome btw22:33
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* lcuk high 5s mgedmin 22:33
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lcuk:O another hair appt22:34
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lcuk20th this time22:34
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lcuki am off anyway, going playing tictactoe with jake22:37
lcuk\o22:37
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CosmoHillcyas22:37
CosmoHillDawnFoster: btw I've not gotten an email from Reggie22:38
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CosmoHillI'd imagine he's clearing the xmas backlog22:38
* auke wonders if he should lart lcuk for posting inappropriate content :)22:39
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CosmoHillauke: there maybe children in the channel :o22:39
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aukeno worries, still 470 ppl in here22:40
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CosmoHill7 of which are active22:41
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dwd_Gosh. Netsplits. How very 80's.22:43
CosmoHilldwd_: really?22:44
anidelyup..22:44
CosmoHillpretty common here22:44
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CosmoHillbut then again I 'm used to an IRC server being taken out once in a while22:44
dwd_CosmoHill, Well, yes, IRC as a whole is very 80's. :-)22:45
CosmoHillI wasn't in the 80s :)22:45
berndhsthe 80s had their moments, the future was much better for one thing22:46
dwd_berndhs, Yeah. I'm still waiting for my flying rocket car.22:46
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aukeI didn't use IRC until '9322:47
smokudwd_, here you are: http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_moller_on_the_skycar.html22:47
dwd_smoku, Yeah, sure. But where's *mine*?22:48
smokudwd_, have you ordered yet?22:48
CosmoHillwe got the interweb in 1998 :)22:48
dwd_smoku, You mean I don't just get given one?22:48
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smokudwd_, nope.  the only thing planned to be given at birth is an RFID chip22:49
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berndhsbut the RFID is for your security22:50
smokuyes.  it makes me terrorist-proof22:51
ali1234in the 80s i was looking forward to a future of instant global communication giving access to the sum total of human knowledge (and dumb videos)22:51
sivangre all22:51
ali1234today i am pretty much "looking forward" to a future where all that is taken away from us "for your own protection"22:52
ali1234so yeah, the future really was better in the 80s22:52
anidelmeaning that *now* is better.22:52
ali1234not necessarily22:53
ali1234we don't know how the future will be22:53
ali1234just that the future now looks pretty grim compared with the way it looked in the 80s22:53
anidelwe are in the future. At least the one we once called future in the 80s22:53
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ali1234yeah22:53
anidelah yeah :)22:53
ali1234but we could have been wrong in the 80s, and we could be wrong now22:54
smoku- daddy, when will the world be better?22:54
smoku- better? it was better already!22:54
berndhsoh we're probably wrong22:54
GeneralAntillesYo, anidel.22:54
GeneralAntillesali1234, that's why the US has the 2nd amendment. :)22:54
anidelyo general22:55
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ali1234the change in the way we see the future probably has more to do with us all getting older tbh22:55
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ali1234and to some extent the way we become less open to new things22:57
poutsiI for one don't subscribe to that22:57
berndhsand we have less time left to wait for the good stuff22:57
ali1234people who were around when TV was invented probably thought it would change the world for the better - by the 80s they were probably well and truly disillusioned22:58
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ali1234same for the telephone22:59
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ali1234i mean look at the disdain some people have for the likes of facebook, and then apply that same method of thinking to the telephone22:59
poutsiwell sure you can be disillusioned when you don't have proper metrics22:59
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ali1234"this device has the power to change the world and you just use it to chat to your friends"22:59
poutsiI mean, you can't measure "changing the world for the better"23:00
ali1234well yeah but when you're 12 you don't realise that :)23:00
berndhswell, teh world isn't actually worse than in 195023:00
ali1234exactly my point berndhs23:00
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ScottishDuck /l、23:02
ScottishDuck(≖‿≖ 723:03
ScottishDuck l、 ~ヽ23:03
ScottishDuck じしf_,)~23:03
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vgradelcuk, I have google nexus one (Qualcomm Snapdragon), o2 jogger (Intel Atom), advent vega (Nvidia Tegra 2) oh and HP Mini (Intel x86) all booting to MeeGo23:04
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dwd_vgrade, How does the battery life on the Nexus One compare between MeeGo and Android?23:06
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dwd_ali1234, Did you know that they advertised the telephone by saying "Be the first person you know to own one!".23:08
ali1234how ironic23:08
barrocaI need to find the latest development package for a product.23:08
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ali1234i think i've heard that before actually23:08
barrocawhere i can find it?23:08
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Arrigimondwd_: what phone?23:12
ArrigimonN1?23:12
dwd_Arrigimon, The advertising comment above? No, that was the original telephone, not any particular one.23:13
Arrigimonoh23:13
Arrigimonback in the days with rotating keypads and huge horns.. those telephones?23:13
Arrigimonwell.. "keypad" :)23:13
dwd_Arrigimon, Yeah, As in "Be the first person you know to own a telephone".23:14
Arrigimon:D23:14
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vgradedwd_, MeeGo on nexus one is not production (or even alpha) quality so no comparison really23:17
Arrigimontoo bad23:18
dwd_vgrade, Well. You can compare between them, whether the comparison tells you more than "MeeGo on Nexus One isn't production quality" or not is another matter - I was just curious.23:19
ArrigimonI liked maemo, was hoping for meego to be at least equal23:19
Arrigimonbut at this speed it'll take them years..23:19
lcukvgrade, o_O at the number of devices23:19
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lcukbut I note you don't include n90023:20
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lcukand did you hear any more about the Nokia Booklet from anyone?23:20
dwd_I have a 770 and an n800. Played with an n900. But Maemo seemed nice to me.23:20
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lcukdwd_, maemo is nice :) (biased, I spent a year working on it) but its also limited in scope.  seeing meego emerge from lessons learnt is cool, could have not considered running apps on such a diverse set of devices as we are seeing capable now in meego23:26
dwd_lcuk, Yes, Maemo always felt very tied to a single device, which meant that older devices got left behind.23:28
lcukindeed23:28
dwd_lcuk, That in turn radically reduced both the audience and the developer pool.23:28
* lcuk nods again23:28
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dwd_lcuk, So yes, I'm tentatively hoping that MeeGo will be a bit more stable, and allow me to have both a tablet/pad and a handset running it, for instance.23:29
lcukyeah23:29
Mat_MatanGod’s in His Heaven... All’s Right with the World!23:30
lcukMat_Matan, speaking of all is right23:30
dwd_lcuk, Also, the mail application finally supports a bunch of the mobile email specs I spent ages writing. :-)23:30
lcukwheres the keyboard patches for this WM? ;)23:30
lcukdwd_, which mail app did you write specifically?23:31
Mat_Matanlcuk: i don't think so :P23:31
dwd_lcuk, I didn't. I wrote the specs.23:31
lcukMat_Matan, then all is not right in the world :P can I actually assign a bug directly to you for it ;)23:31
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lcukdwd_, and where are they hosted?23:31
lcukdwd_, does it include the IP over avian carrier?23:32
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vgradelcuk, no n900 here and no, noone had a booklet gathering dust which they wanted to contribute23:33
Mat_Matanluck: Pippa Passes - Robert Browning "God’s in His Heaven... All’s Right with the World!"23:33
Mat_Matanluck: :P23:33
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lcukvgrade, ping me tomorrow please.23:33
vgraderumour is that EMGD kernel drivers have been seen in recent IVI kernels23:34
lcukyeah I heard same23:34
lcukI was doing some looking this morning through the glossary23:34
lcuk(and fleshing out some missing things)23:34
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dwd_lcuk, Sadly not. Same series though - they're all RFCs.23:35
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lcukdwd_, where did you actually submit them to?23:36
dwd_lcuk, How do you mean?23:38
lcukdwd_, you said "I wrote the specs"23:39
dwd_lcuk, Yes, within the IETF.23:39
lcukso what did you do with them after you wrote them, ritual burning?23:39
lcukright, makes more sense now!23:40
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lcukdwd_, I misunderstood your meaning and thought you had written some meego specific outlines :)23:41
dwd_lcuk, For instance, I wrote RFC 4731, (which both the QT Messaging thing and the iPhone implement) and RFC 5162, which I think Qt Messaging implements. It also implements a few other things I didn't write, which are part of the Lemonade profile (which I did).23:41
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dwd_lcuk, I implemented most of these things, too, but not on MeeGo. :-)23:42
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lcukawesome23:43
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dwd_So here's a question. If I wanted to write a MeeGo application which displayed things on a map, is there a map application within MeeGo, or would I need to use (say) Google Maps and a bit of WebKit to glue it in?23:46
lcukdwd_, how long did each take, whenever I read RFCs there is so much care taken23:46
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lcukdwd_, Qt Mobility includes mapping functionality23:47
lcukthe 1.2 update of qtm should help this since the roadmap has adjusted itself to account for feedback from devs initially23:47
lcukand theres specific implementation things for meego getting put in atm23:48
dwd_lcuk, Actually quite quick. The longest one was RFC 5550, because it's the summary of an entire working group. RFC 5162 is my design, though, and it took a lot of wordsmithing to explain.23:48
lcukI know theres an RFC styleguide, but beyond that was it just a case of setting out to create one?23:49
lcukie, take the code/spec you have and document it cleanly?23:50
dwd_lcuk, Bit more than that, because mine are mostly STandards Track. But basically, you write the RFC according to various rules (and using xml2rfc to format it), and then persuade the IETF/IESG to accept it.23:51
lcukheh, actually that sounds like a similar process to code integration! :)23:52
dwd_It's not much different. The main distinction is that if you want to change something, you can't - you need to figure out how to extend it safely instead. Kind of like programming by opening a fresh text editor and writing a patch.23:54
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lcukdwd_, :) that is more like integration.  once you release you don't want to be breaking peoples systems.23:55
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lcukwhich RFC do you hold up as being best example of a readable/understandable one?23:55
dwd_RFC 748?23:56
lcukyou roll the numbers off like I am an RFC pro, I need to search, hold on :P23:56
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Macerwhere does the n900 keep its working/not working hw list at?23:56
Maceri remember there being a table23:57
RST38hRFC 1149!23:57
dwd_http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc74823:57
dwd_RST38h, Yeah, 1149 is good, but 748 is much clearer.23:58
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lcuk:D hahah dwd_23:58
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RST38htrue23:58
dwd_lcuk, Written by the same guy who designed IMAP.23:59
RST38hCan you randomly lose via avian carriers though?23:59
lcukI believe a similar would be the "evil bit" that telecomes carriers wanted to add to data streams23:59
RST38hdwd: I am sure the guy was serious23:59
wmaroneRST38h: hawks23:59
dwd_RST38h, Anyway, 1149 has been updated: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc254923:59

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