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| saigkill | Hello Mates. I've downloaded meego.img and used it with image-writer for writing the USB. Now after changing the BIOS my EeePC can boot the Stick. In the Bootmenue i'm choosing "Boot Meego". Then starts the Kernel but now it breaks. He says "/dev/loop2 can't read superblock". Has anyone an Idea how to fix this? | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
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| CosmoHill | saigkill: hmm | 00:10 |
| saigkill | CosmoHill: I've searched already with Google, found 2 Threads, but no solution... | 00:12 |
| CosmoHill | do you have another USB device to you put meego on? | 00:12 |
| th0br0 | saigkill: try a different usb stick | 00:12 |
| th0br0 | CosmoHill: :D | 00:12 |
| CosmoHill | :p | 00:12 |
| sofar | that's one suggestion | 00:12 |
| CosmoHill | hey sofar | 00:13 |
| th0br0 | ohai indeed :) | 00:13 |
| sofar | also, try starting the installer (but don't install if you don't want) to see if it loads | 00:13 |
| sofar | third, run a checksum on the download | 00:13 |
| th0br0 | some other idea ... yeah, the checksum | 00:13 |
| th0br0 | i'd go for 3) and if that doesn't work out for 1) | 00:13 |
| saigkill | The Bootmenue works, so i think that the Stick are okay... | 00:14 |
| th0br0 | not necessarily. | 00:14 |
| th0br0 | the bootmenue are just some 512kb ... there could be some bad memory banks somewhere | 00:14 |
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| th0br0 | try running some fsck on the stick... | 00:17 |
| sofar | it's unlikely he has btrfsck | 00:17 |
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| saigkill | ok. I'll try it out | 00:17 |
| th0br0 | sofar: oh the image uses btrfs ? mmh true then. | 00:17 |
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| sofar | actually | 00:17 |
| sofar | there's a squashfs volume inside a ext3 fs | 00:17 |
| sofar | so, fsck should work | 00:17 |
| th0br0 | k | 00:17 |
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| rittk | which connection manager is used in maemo? | 00:21 |
| ShadowJK | icd2 | 00:22 |
| ShadowJK | it's nokia proprietary | 00:22 |
| rittk | its open now, right? | 00:22 |
| ShadowJK | dunno | 00:22 |
| rittk | ok, thanks | 00:22 |
| ShadowJK | If I was them I wouldn't open it | 00:22 |
| rittk | lol, why? | 00:22 |
| ShadowJK | because, in my personal opinion, it works better than any connection manager I've seen so far | 00:22 |
| ShadowJK | so it's actually an advantage, a good thing | 00:23 |
| ShadowJK | Relative to the big pile of closed software that's worse than open source alternatives :-) | 00:23 |
| rittk | imo, thats a first reason for opening it | 00:23 |
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| ShadowJK | like, first encounter with Maemo, Maemo 4 chinook, I entered two wireless APs with the same static IP | 00:24 |
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| ShadowJK | opensauce Network Manager was just like "Static ip? What's that lol!? Here, let me just pick a new random IP every time you sneeze" | 00:25 |
| ShadowJK | icd in comparison is awesome, it seamlessly switches between the two APs that cover my house, without changing IPs, without dropping connections | 00:27 |
| ShadowJK | :D | 00:27 |
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| rittk | seems like it is still closed-source | 00:28 |
| ShadowJK | I'm hoping connman will be somewhat less braindead than Connection Manager and probably somewhat more braindamaged than icd2 :/ | 00:28 |
| ShadowJK | not hoping it'd be more braindamaged, of course, I'm just a pessimist | 00:28 |
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| rittk | looking at the connman sources makes me a bit optimistic | 00:30 |
| CosmoHill | hey arjan | 00:31 |
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| rittk | but, hell, it still doesn't supports adhoc wifi-s | 00:31 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 00:31 |
| rittk | if (g_strcmp0(type, "wifi") != 0 || g_strcmp0(mode, "managed") != 0) | 00:32 |
| rittk | return -EOPNOTSUPP; | 00:32 |
| th0br0 | bye | 00:32 |
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| sofar | rittk: it would be nice if Nokia would invest some time in connman as well | 00:33 |
| Stskeeps | well, with icd out of the way, i'd hope so too.. | 00:34 |
| ShadowJK | icd didn't support adhoc out of the box actually :/ | 00:34 |
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| ShadowJK | And there's a case for making ad-hoc "difficult" | 00:35 |
| ShadowJK | it consumes enormous amounts of power | 00:35 |
| saigkill | Error found :-) It was a Error with the copying to the Stick. After using dd it was ready. Thanks for helping | 00:35 |
| rittk | > icd didn't support adhoc out of the box actually :/ | 00:36 |
| rittk | so, how it works in my n900 out of the box? | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | Creating or connecting to? | 00:37 |
| rittk | connecting | 00:37 |
| rittk | didn't try to create one | 00:37 |
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| willwork4foo | hi all | 00:38 |
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| rittk | lol, commit with a message "Ignore WiFi networks with IBSS (adhoc mode)" | 00:44 |
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| rittk | why ignore? | 00:44 |
| rittk | is there an issue? | 00:44 |
| rittk | does that fixes something? | 00:44 |
| rittk | stupid someone... | 00:44 |
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| piratephlox | hi | 01:37 |
| piratephlox | looking for some images/pictures from meego, for print. couldn't really find anything in that direction. | 01:38 |
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| piratephlox | any hints? | 01:40 |
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| CosmoHill | look on the wiki | 01:53 |
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| piratephlox | and where in the wiki? can't really find a useful page there easer. | 02:00 |
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| CosmoHill | http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/meego-1.1-release | 02:19 |
| CosmoHill | click on any of the pictures for more screen shots | 02:19 |
| CosmoHill | I know the person who took some of those screenshots is english :) | 02:21 |
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| * CosmoHill pokes DawnFoster1 | 02:25 | |
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| dimitris82 | hi | 02:29 |
| CosmoHill | hello | 02:29 |
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| CosmoHill | salut niala | 02:30 |
| dimitris82 | any news when we will have official update with dual boot on n900 maemo+meego? | 02:30 |
| niala | CosmoHill: un nouveau jour commence :) | 02:30 |
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| CosmoHill | oui :) | 02:31 |
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| CosmoHill | dimitris82: there's some stuff on the wiki about i | 02:31 |
| CosmoHill | it | 02:31 |
| niala | dimitris82: It's in project ? | 02:32 |
| dimitris82 | i have saw them about two days ago is it updated? | 02:32 |
| dimitris82 | ok | 02:32 |
| piratephlox | CosmoHill | 02:32 |
| piratephlox | thanks, but is this stuff ready for print? resolution and so. | 02:33 |
| CosmoHill | hey | 02:33 |
| CosmoHill | I can't find any high resolution pictures | 02:33 |
| piratephlox | its great, that its not jpg :) | 02:33 |
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| CosmoHill | I will ask about them soon | 02:33 |
| CosmoHill | I have another problem with some of the pictures I want to sort out first | 02:33 |
| piratephlox | k | 02:33 |
| * CosmoHill pokes Stskeeps and auke | 02:33 | |
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| niala | time to drink a soup | 02:34 |
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| rittk | where are the meego-panel-devel package? | 03:38 |
| rittk | s/are/is/ | 03:38 |
| infobot | rittk meant: where is the meego-panel-devel package? | 03:38 |
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| rittk | lol | 03:38 |
| thiago | :-) | 03:38 |
| rittk | s/lol/stupid bot/ | 03:39 |
| infobot | rittk meant: stupid bot | 03:39 |
| rittk | oh, thiago | 03:39 |
| thiago | hey ritt | 03:39 |
| rittk | good what_time_of_day_you_have_there | 03:39 |
| thiago | afternoon | 03:40 |
| rittk | you might know - what is the qdbus (tool) input parameters format? | 03:40 |
| rittk | I need to call SomeMethod(a{sv}) | 03:40 |
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| rittk | ACTION started to build meego-panel-network and got | 03:44 |
| rittk | ACTION > checking for MPL... configure: error: Package requirements (meego-panel >= 0.49.0) were not met: | 03:44 |
| rittk | ACTION > No package 'meego-panel' found | 03:44 |
| * rittk | 03:44 | |
| rittk | ACTION started to build meego-panel-network and got | 03:44 |
| * rittk | 03:44 | |
| rittk | wtf | 03:44 |
| rittk | but there is no mpl or meego-panel or meego-panel-devel package! | 03:45 |
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| rittk | thiago: where are you? still in US? | 03:47 |
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| thiago | still in the US | 03:59 |
| thiago | until Friday | 03:59 |
| rittk | :( | 03:00 |
| rittk | I miss you | 03:00 |
| thiago | convince someone else to review those patches | 03:00 |
| rittk | who? Lars?) | 03:00 |
| rittk | he ignores me | 03:00 |
| rittk | Simon? | 03:01 |
| thiago | he's more busy than I am | 03:01 |
| rittk | same there | 03:01 |
| thiago | simon should be able to find time | 03:01 |
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| * thiago now needs to go have dinner | 03:01 | |
| thiago | see ya | 03:01 |
| rittk | so busy that unable to answer during a 6 months? | 03:01 |
| rittk | cya | 03:01 |
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| icesword | what , sthe structure of meego? | 04:36 |
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| icesword | i mean what environment is user app in? linux? or some vm? | 04:37 |
| wmarone | hm? | 04:38 |
| wmarone | it's standard linux | 04:38 |
| icesword | ???????? | 04:39 |
| wmarone | IE not some special VM or whatnot | 04:39 |
| icesword | anyone awake? | 04:39 |
| wmarone | yes, can you not see what I'm typing or something? | 04:40 |
| lcuk | icesword, it use IgniramOS | 04:43 |
| lcuk | wmarone, some ppl can :P | 04:44 |
| icesword | sorry I'm on nokia 5230 | 04:44 |
| wmarone | I certainly hope so :) | 04:44 |
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| icesword | it's slow | 04:44 |
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| lcuk | icesword, upgrade, the n900 doesn't often have lag :) | 04:46 |
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| icesword | so user apps eg .rpm is running in linux runtime? | 04:47 |
| icesword | is that youare saying? | 04:47 |
| lcuk | icesword, it runs ontop of x11. | 04:47 |
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| icesword | x11? vm? | 04:48 |
| lcuk | windowing/event subsystem, most windowing desktops on linux run on it and many toolkits sit ontop of it | 04:49 |
| icesword | android sucks? doesn't it? | 04:49 |
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| lcuk | wouldnt know, i have enough real toys this side to keep me from getting distracted with virtual machines | 04:50 |
| icesword | it,s on a vm | 04:50 |
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| icesword | N900?! dear, it's too expensive | 04:55 |
| icesword | does N 8 support meego? | 04:55 |
| lcuk | does the n8 work the same as the n900? | 04:56 |
| icesword | meego rocks, android sucker | 04:57 |
| icesword | N8 symbian 3 | 04:57 |
| lcuk | would be nice | 04:58 |
| lcuk | meego has seen firstlight on a number of odd devices already | 04:58 |
| icesword | cpu and memory both are good | 04:58 |
| lcuk | in theory nothing prevents one of hte other nokia devices | 04:58 |
| lcuk | :) | 04:59 |
| icesword | how about 5230? lol | 04:59 |
| lcuk | chances are, it will be bootable on pretty much the same subset of devices core linux can boot on one day | 05:00 |
| icesword | so meego is efficiency? isn't it? | 05:00 |
| lcuk | how many weeks a bootup takes or whether you can enter a gui is another matter | 05:00 |
| lcuk | idk, what is it to you? | 05:01 |
| icesword | don't know | 05:01 |
| lcuk | what would you like it to be? | 05:02 |
| icesword | only thing I'm not satisfied with | 05:03 |
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| icesword | is why can't nokia create a map like google,s | 05:04 |
| Termana | Halt. This is the bullshit police. | 05:04 |
| lcuk | icesword, meh, there are many places google still cannot map | 05:04 |
| Termana | Firstly, the N8 "cpu and memory both are good". What a crock. | 05:04 |
| icesword | and google's cloud information so nice | 05:05 |
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| Termana | It has an ARM11 (armv6) CPU that runs at 434MHz and has 128mb of RAM | 05:05 |
| lcuk | icesword, cloud is in many places | 05:05 |
| lcuk | but its not everywhere | 05:05 |
| Termana | even if you COULD boot linux on that thing, good luck running MeeGo. | 05:05 |
| lcuk | Termana, meegos *only* issue atm is hard dep on powervr | 05:05 |
| wmarone | Termana: I've run linux on worse :) granted, not on battery and not with a GUI... | 05:06 |
| lcuk | maemo + telescope highlights its perfectly good, as does mer and some kind of mermantle :P | 05:06 |
| Termana | Fact: MeeGo will not run on the N8 and definitely not a 5230. | 05:07 |
| Termana | Status: [ ] Untold [ X ] Told | 05:07 |
| wmarone | that's some 4chan quality commentary there, Termana ;) | 05:07 |
| lcuk | Termana, hm | 05:07 |
| Termana | Now sit down, before I have to make some arrests | 05:07 |
| Termana | wmarone, :p | 05:07 |
| lcuk | 5230 i might agree with | 05:07 |
| icesword | ok N8 5230 suckers | 05:08 |
| Termana | lcuk, who is REALLY going to put in any effort to get the linux kernel to boot on the N8?... And then do the rest of the MeeGo porting work on top of that. And then realise that everything will be incompatible since everything is being compiled for armv7 | 05:09 |
| lcuk | Termana, i said in theory | 05:09 |
| icesword | N8 you can't change batterys? you know | 05:09 |
| lcuk | there is a proto n8x0 port somewhere | 05:09 |
| lcuk | and as the number of devices grows | 05:09 |
| lcuk | such support for stranger and stranger hw will grow | 05:09 |
| lcuk | see x86 regular for example :P | 05:10 |
| wmarone | n8's battery can be changed, you just need a screwdriver :) | 05:10 |
| icesword | so N8 isn't quite good | 05:10 |
| Termana | You would have to maintain your own repository of the surrounds repo compiled for armv6 and, quite frankly, forget about closed apps or Harmattan-compiled apps | 05:10 |
| wmarone | sure | 05:11 |
| lcuk | Termana, why so serious, cant we have a theoretical discussion | 05:11 |
| wmarone | I'm forgetting about closed apps whenever I disable the DRM on my N??? | 05:11 |
| icesword | termana is a leader | 05:12 |
| icesword | we have to shut up | 05:12 |
| lcuk | if we can have meego on n8x0 | 05:13 |
| lcuk | it should be feasible elsewhere | 05:13 |
| icesword | even it runs, it won't perform well | 05:13 |
| lcuk | icesword, depends what you run | 05:14 |
| lcuk | if its enough to let you say hi to friends or to use maps or something, its doing it job | 05:15 |
| lcuk | but, sure you may not be able to run the latest game on it | 05:16 |
| lcuk | a remote control for your media centre or something :) | 05:16 |
| icesword | ok, i won't stare at it all day without doing anything, right. ps it s not good-looking | 05:16 |
| lcuk | whats not? | 05:17 |
| Termana | lcuk, icesword - sorry I didn't mean to seem so serious and/or angry :p | 05:17 |
| icesword | multi-tasking,no name | 05:17 |
| icesword | bbl | 05:18 |
| Termana | lcuk, also, I didn't say you couldn't theorise. I was weighing in the practical side of the argument. | 05:20 |
| lcuk | Termana, if its too heavy theres a problem | 05:20 |
| lcuk | thats not the linux way | 05:21 |
| Termana | lcuk, the practical side of the argument or MeeGo? :p | 05:21 |
| lcuk | Termana, which was the first usable gui linux you had? | 05:21 |
| lcuk | on handheld | 05:21 |
| Termana | lcuk, my N810. | 05:22 |
| lcuk | same here | 05:22 |
| lcuk | :) | 05:22 |
| lcuk | that has less power than the n8? | 05:22 |
| lcuk | but yet ran all the things it did | 05:22 |
| lcuk | at a higher resolution | 05:22 |
| Termana | lcuk, a bit more power actually, but the argument still holds true. | 05:23 |
| lcuk | lower the resolution as much as it does (theres 2/3 pixels on n8 as there was on n8x0) | 05:24 |
| Termana | lcuk, the fact is, MeeGo is heavy. | 05:24 |
| Termana | The UXs have been designed to run on beefy hardware. | 05:24 |
| Termana | GLESv2 (not powervr specific btw, it's just the only one that has appropriate drivers at the moment) | 05:24 |
| Termana | or GL | 05:24 |
| lcuk | i am quite certain the n8 has practical gl support | 05:25 |
| lcuk | it can house qt 4.7 remember :) | 05:25 |
| Termana | Minimum of armv7 for default compiles, including applications for ARM. Minimum of SSSE3 on x86 | 05:25 |
| Termana | MeeGo has a lot of unnecessary things. But that is the way it's done. Do I like it? Not particularly. But it's something that has to be lived with at the moment. | 05:26 |
| lcuk | so port libmeegotouch to it and run the meego apps ontop is possible also | 05:26 |
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| Termana | lcuk, quite frankly, even if the N8 did support GLESv2, it's impractical to make it work in a Linux/X11 environment. | 05:27 |
| wmarone | then how on earth did Linux ever run on 486es? | 05:27 |
| lcuk | ++ | 05:28 |
| Termana | lcuk, people have been trying to reverse engineer powervr stuff in an open source manner for quite a few years now. The last I checked, no practical progress. | 05:28 |
| bef0rd | plain linux will work but MeeGo is kinda heavy as Termana said | 05:28 |
| lcuk | Termana, does everything require powervr? | 05:28 |
| Termana | wmarone, who said this was about general linux. This is about specifically MeeGo | 05:28 |
| bef0rd | plain linux works almost on everything :P | 05:28 |
| wmarone | \ | 05:29 |
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| lcuk | meego toaster ux coming soon :P | 05:29 |
| lcuk | "would anyone like any toast?" | 05:29 |
| sofar | yes! | 05:29 |
| sofar | with butter pls | 05:29 |
| Termana | lcuk, who said anything required powervr. I said its a requirement to have GLESv2. Unless you go the software rendering route. But on old hardware it isn't going to go nice. | 05:30 |
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| npm | there's a burnt image of a penguin on my toast! | 05:30 |
| lcuk | Termana, that is specifically where lower resolution helps | 05:30 |
| lcuk | trying to render current high res screens in cpu bound is sluggish | 05:30 |
| lcuk | but i know and have confirmable first hand knowledge of the strength of lowering the resolution | 05:31 |
| lcuk | and that just how much of a difference it can make. | 05:31 |
| lcuk | it may never be perfect on older devices | 05:31 |
| lcuk | but damn, that does not mean people cannot have it on them for other tasks | 05:31 |
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| Termana | lcuk, but the problem still exists - it is obviously too heavy for it. | 05:33 |
| Termana | lcuk, you could use a much less resource hungry distro on the device instead and it would be a smoother experience. | 05:33 |
| lcuk | Termana, "qt: code once, deploy anywhere" is quite a powerful target. | 05:34 |
| lcuk | just like my liqbase stuff, i wrote this on n810: http://liqbase.net/liq.20091016_041607.liqremote.scr.png | 05:34 |
| lcuk | i just used it tonight whilst watching something | 05:34 |
| lcuk | it runs on things | 05:34 |
| lcuk | :) | 05:34 |
| lcuk | when people start writing meego apps, some of them will be heavy on lower hardware | 05:35 |
| lcuk | but other stuff will be light and simple | 05:35 |
| lcuk | its good if we have a path | 05:35 |
| lcuk | that lets them run too | 05:35 |
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| Termana | lcuk, but I think we've come full circle. The application SDK is set up to compile for armv7 and x86 and will link in libmeegotouch by default. What incentive is there for developers to make the sure their (closed) apps will run on older devices. If someone puts in the effort and recompiles the whole of Surrounds that will be a good start. But I'm not sure many people want to do that. | 05:39 |
| lcuk | Termana, hrm | 05:40 |
| lcuk | the application framework has not done its job then :P | 05:40 |
| lcuk | it is the meegotouch libraries purpose to host a compliant application? | 05:40 |
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| lcuk | if the application listens to all the practical events and signals coming from the touch framework | 05:41 |
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| lcuk | and adheres to blanking signals and the like | 05:42 |
| Termana | lcuk, I honestly couldn't tell you exactly what libmeegotouch does. I do know it relies on GLESv2 by default, but it can be turned off to use for software rendering. | 05:42 |
| lcuk | :) | 05:42 |
| lcuk | Termana, since it looks like most of the repositories will be / are sat ontop of obs | 05:43 |
| lcuk | the arch problem is less so | 05:43 |
| lcuk | initially, Mer was building debs on n8x0 using obs | 05:43 |
| lcuk | i find it hard to believe its more than a twiddle to get the meego obs doing the same | 05:43 |
| lcuk | (maybe not the deb bit, but the target arch is entirely feasible) | 05:44 |
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| Termana | lcuk, just something of interest as well - you can't technically call what you would be doing as MeeGo. Since the MeeGo compliance says you need GL or GLESv2. But that's a rather minor thing. | 05:45 |
| lcuk | Termana, so actively building every single public meego.com application using the publicaly available meego.com .ks file would not be meego? | 05:46 |
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| lcuk | and officially sancioned meego.com sources | 05:46 |
| Termana | lcuk, I didn't say it wouldn't be MeeGo. I just said you couldn't call it that | 05:46 |
| lcuk | Termana, what if it was on repo.meego.com? :) | 05:46 |
| Termana | lcuk, don't shoot me :p I'm just telling you what the compliance spec says! :p | 05:46 |
| Termana | lcuk, if it's on repo.meego.com then it would be assumed you have asked for a exception from that part of the compliance spec | 05:47 |
| Termana | an exemption * | 05:47 |
| lcuk | i can see it if its expected to run games | 05:48 |
| lcuk | thats bleugh | 05:48 |
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| lcuk | on that wonderful note, i will go to bed | 05:48 |
| lcuk | its far too late for me | 05:49 |
| Termana | lcuk, :P good night | 05:49 |
| lcuk | gnite Termana \o | 05:49 |
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| boltR | does anyone know where i can find documentation for the Mx UI toolkit for loading CSS files? | 05:58 |
| boltR | into Mx.Style | 05:58 |
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| kismeter | hello all, I'm new in meego. would anybody know how to compile the meego source code?thx | 07:14 |
| icesword | platform? | 07:15 |
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| kismeter | yes | 07:15 |
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| boltR | does anyone know how to apply css to Moblin UI? | 07:31 |
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| ObKo | Hello, does anybody have info about bug #5616 - http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5616? | 08:22 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5616 nor, Undecided, 1.0.80.15, fathi.boudra, ASSI, Certain fonts are garbled | 08:22 |
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| SpinachHead | will meego have gtk support? | 09:41 |
| Stskeeps | it's there but part of meego api so may technically disappear at any time | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | and vendors aren't obligated to provide it on devices | 09:42 |
| tmzt | part of? | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | not part of | 09:45 |
| tmzt | wonder if I should try to provide an image of meego for running under android | 09:45 |
| tmzt | mostly to test ofono proxy | 09:45 |
| dm8tbr | as long as you ship your own libc that should work I guess | 09:48 |
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| dm8tbr | I've seen android bionic and µclibc userspace coexist | 09:48 |
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| fabo_ | anaZ: please, could you sync sdk repo? | 14:42 |
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| cih | ciao | 15:23 |
| cih | !list; | 15:24 |
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| pupnik_ | http://i.imgur.com/50MDa.jpg << N810 sized phones could take 2x 1500mAh batteries for hot-swap capability. | 16:02 |
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| leinir | Hmmmm... Interesting :) | 16:06 |
| Bostik | well, if you're willing to remove all the chipsets parts and components the extra battery space takes up | 16:06 |
| juk | so it is suitable for n900 | 16:07 |
| juk | ? | 16:07 |
| pupnik_ | manufacturers are seriously screwing up with these tiny batteries | 16:07 |
| juk | pupnik_: why, what's wrong with 'em | 16:07 |
| pupnik_ | too small | 16:07 |
| pupnik_ | Bostik: i'll show you pics of phones using much more of the back for battery than either n810 or n900 | 16:08 |
| juk | pupnik_: but you can have two, in case one gets disgarged | 16:09 |
| leinir | Well yes, and then you have to turn the thing off... | 16:09 |
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| leinir | And no, with the new designs from e.g. Nokia, replacing the battery takes a torx driver ;) | 16:10 |
| juk | drained i meant | 16:10 |
| leinir | (which i kinda think is neat, that you can still do it, just makes it inconvenient for the use case you present ;) ) | 16:10 |
| CosmoHill | leinir: you mean like apple's stuff where the batteries aren't user replaceable? | 16:10 |
| leinir | CosmoHill: That's something else entirely yeah, that's just... meh ;) | 16:10 |
| leinir | At least with the new Nokia designs, you can actually get to it :) | 16:11 |
| CosmoHill | I like that on my old mac I can put the laptop to sleep and swap the batteries | 16:11 |
| leinir | Hehe, yes, that's pretty nifty :) | 16:11 |
| CosmoHill | auke: poke | 16:12 |
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| lcuk | so are we calling for device designs with batteries and peripherals which are connected/disconnected like a banana ammo clip on a big gun? | 16:12 |
| lcuk | keep spares on your utility belt and just swap them in hero style | 16:12 |
| leinir | lcuk: Totally! Bat-belt! ;) | 16:13 |
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| RST38h | yes,and add a powerful laser to that | 16:13 |
| pupnik_ | lcuk: yes that would rule | 16:13 |
| lcuk | RST38h, o_O laser sight for taking "perfect" pictures | 16:13 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: magazie style batteries | 16:13 |
| lcuk | pump action MMC | 16:13 |
| RST38h | Well you do want a lower power laser there as well | 16:14 |
| pupnik_ | make 1/2 the back a snap-on battery, and the other half a modular camera | 16:14 |
| CosmoHill | Stskeeps: would love that, he can swap out his N900s for testing by standing back and firing | 16:14 |
| lcuk | pupnik_, if these things take up 1/2 space what about the new components | 16:14 |
| lcuk | just have the modules on lego bricks | 16:14 |
| CosmoHill | pupnik_: http://black-flag.co.uk/files/k800i-thrown2.jpg like that? | 16:14 |
| lcuk | and let you layout them as you see fit | 16:14 |
| RST38h | Well To light up the target and create path through the air for the more powerful beam | 16:15 |
| lcuk | RST38h, a sounding laser? | 16:15 |
| pupnik_ | heh | 16:15 |
| CosmoHill | I miss my k800i now | 16:16 |
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| sunder | hi,...did anyone stumbled upon the 'syslinux' not found error while running mic-image creator... i m searching the meego repositories and till now can't find syslinux lackage there.. | 16:20 |
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| summy | hello | 16:41 |
| CosmoHill | hi | 16:41 |
| summy | i hame one stupid question, if i setup the OTS, how many time do i need? | 16:42 |
| CosmoHill | I don't understand the question | 16:42 |
| summy | i am a new person in the meego platform, i want to try to set up the OTS systerm | 16:42 |
| CosmoHill | OTS? | 16:42 |
| summy | yes, open test service | 16:43 |
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| CosmoHill | ah, I've not used that | 16:43 |
| summy | ok, still thanks, anyone know about that? | 16:44 |
| CosmoHill | someone somewhere should :) | 16:44 |
| summy | who can give me a big help? | 16:45 |
| CosmoHill | you could try on the forums and mailing list to check to see if someone else has done this | 16:46 |
| summy | ok, i will see, | 16:48 |
| summy | thanks CosmoHill. | 16:48 |
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| thomas___ | hello. Can I install mp3 and divx support on Meego 1.1? | 17:00 |
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| CosmoHill | thomas___: check the forums | 17:01 |
| niala | hello, CosmoHill | 17:01 |
| CosmoHill | salut niala | 17:01 |
| CosmoHill | thomas___: if you find an answer let me know and I'll add it to the FAQ | 17:01 |
| niala | mp3 need compil gstreamer & gstreamer-plugin | 17:02 |
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| niala | plugin plugin good, bad, ugly,ffmpeg | 17:03 |
| niala | and don't forget --prefix=/usr when you ./configure | 17:03 |
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| CosmoHill | the good, the bad and the ugly....and ffmpeg | 17:04 |
| Frode_Haugsgjerd | hi, the download page for the Nokia N900 flasher tool is down, does anyone have a mirror of it? | 17:04 |
| niala | 1 or 2 hour on atom l lol | 17:04 |
| dm8tbr | noone set up an evil repository with rpms yet? | 17:04 |
| CosmoHill | Frode_Haugsgjerd: can you send me the link? | 17:04 |
| Frode_Haugsgjerd | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php | 17:05 |
| thomas___ | I found a script at the forum and a repository, but is only for version 1.0 not for 1.1 | 17:05 |
| CosmoHill | that may work | 17:06 |
| CosmoHill | I don't see there being to much difference | 17:06 |
| CosmoHill | Frode_Haugsgjerd: okay looks like you're going to have to wait a bit | 17:06 |
| niala | thomas___: better yo go in http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/src/ | 17:07 |
| * CosmoHill gives niala a cookie for dealing with people then goes away | 17:07 | |
| Frode_Haugsgjerd | CosmoHill, hmm, i have a flasher binary on my device, is it possible to do it locally? | 17:07 |
| CosmoHill | that sounds like it can only end badly | 17:08 |
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| niala | CosmoHill: you go? | 17:09 |
| CosmoHill | I'm still here but I'm doing work | 17:09 |
| CosmoHill | I don't want to break my flow | 17:09 |
| niala | right musi on headphones and work | 17:09 |
| niala | c | 17:09 |
| CosmoHill | pick a letter | 17:10 |
| eluttine | summy: did you mean http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/QA-tools/OTS | 17:10 |
| * niala going crazy with c++ and qt | 17:10 | |
| thomas___ | ok, in v1.1 the software is newer, but is the version 1.0 stable to use it on a netbook? | 17:10 |
| CosmoHill | thomas___: v1.1 is stable | 17:10 |
| eluttine | summy: check meego-qa-tools channel, you can get help from there | 17:11 |
| CosmoHill | niala: subwoofer on, amp on, cd in, go go go | 17:11 |
| thomas___ | ok, thanks for your help | 17:11 |
| niala | thomas___: since 3 day I see no difference. Just facebook account from status-panel has disappeared | 17:12 |
| niala | oh and qt4.7 and meegotouch integrated | 17:13 |
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| * niala I will stop to speak english I don't understand myself :) | 17:13 | |
| summy | thomas, thanks ,i will see | 17:14 |
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| summy | sorry, eluttine, i will see, thanks for you help | 17:14 |
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| summy | hi eluttine, another question, can the ots can be used very well? | 17:17 |
| thomas___ | thanks niala. I will try v1.0. | 17:17 |
| eluttine | summy, yes it can be used quite nicely for automated testing | 17:18 |
| niala_sofa-tv | thomas___: get 1.1 qt is very important in meego | 17:18 |
| thomas___ | thanks niala | 17:19 |
| thomas___ | try 1.1 | 17:19 |
| summy | it can be used for testing for the kernel and middleware for automating testing? | 17:19 |
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| eluttine | also for those, but depends lot of the testcase. e.g. it can run min testcases | 17:21 |
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| CosmoHill | niala_sofa-tv: what you watching? | 17:26 |
| niala_sofa-tv | camping2 CosmoHill a stupid comedy | 17:27 |
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| niala_sofa-tv | french people on hollyday | 17:27 |
| CosmoHill | holiday* | 17:27 |
| niala_sofa-tv | ty | 17:27 |
| niala_sofa-tv | holly mean saint | 17:27 |
| CosmoHill | Holly can be a girl's name, it's also a prickly type of bush | 17:28 |
| niala_sofa-tv | ahhh ty | 17:28 |
| pupnik_ | wow look how big this keyboard is -- Samsung Epic http://www.brighthand.com/assets/14519.jpg | 17:29 |
| CosmoHill | pupnik_: my god, that looks useable | 17:29 |
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| * CosmoHill looks at the fingers then the keyboard again | 17:30 | |
| CosmoHill | oh second thoughts... | 17:30 |
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| pupnik_ | CosmoHill: how did they get a slider mechanism to open that far?? | 17:42 |
| CosmoHill | maybe if he moves his pinky the keyboard falls off | 17:42 |
| pupnik_ | n900 doen to 360 euro in germany... | 17:42 |
| pupnik_ | awesome. that's less than i paid for the 770 | 17:43 |
| CosmoHill | that's still 260 € more than I'd like to pay | 17:43 |
| CosmoHill | in fact 100 € is still a lot | 17:43 |
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| ruskie | I payed 620 eur for my n900 ;) | 17:43 |
| CosmoHill | last thought I bought was £45 IIRC | 17:44 |
| CosmoHill | s/thought/phone/ | 17:44 |
| infobot | CosmoHill meant: last phone I bought was £45 IIRC | 17:44 |
| ruskie | but then I wanted it rather fast... not wait for any of the operators to start offering it | 17:44 |
| ruskie | and frankly it was worth it | 17:45 |
| CosmoHill | I'd have to buy the whole phone since I'm not on contract | 17:45 |
| ruskie | the diff for me was I think less than 50 eur for my basic package | 17:46 |
| CosmoHill | my dad gets a new phone every year or so and I got his old two :) | 17:47 |
| CosmoHill | mostly because he broke them and I fixed them after he got a replacement | 17:47 |
| pupnik_ | 100 euro will get you a 320x200-400x240 display cellphone in germany | 17:48 |
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| CosmoHill | my friend got a LG Cookie for £50 | 17:48 |
| CosmoHill | scrolling was a pain | 17:50 |
| pupnik_ | i don't see anything that could compete with a N900 for under 400 - even imagining one could get meego running on it | 17:52 |
| CosmoHill | my experience of touch screens is limited to LG cookies and iPhones | 17:52 |
| RST38h | There is nothing above 400 either | 17:53 |
| lcuk | COOKIES | 17:53 |
| lcuk | om nom nom nom | 17:53 |
| pupnik_ | want to see some beautifully dense packing? LG Mini GD880 854x480 display for .. 160 euro?? | 17:53 |
| RST38h | Isn't that "bisquits", lcuk? =) | 17:53 |
| CosmoHill | I think I'll stick with my candy bar phone | 17:53 |
| CosmoHill | RST38h: 1. biscuits | 17:53 |
| CosmoHill | 2. Cookies are awesome | 17:53 |
| RST38h | Ah right | 17:53 |
| lcuk | c is for cookie | 17:54 |
| lcuk | thats good enough for me | 17:54 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: Android actually comes pretty close. But nounified messaging there. | 17:54 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: unless it's used to describe someone who unplugs a computer after 1 week of solid work | 17:54 |
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| RST38h | (besides, the base OS appears to suck, but I fully understand that not everyone cares about it | 17:55 |
| CosmoHill | it would be nice having a Meego phone and a meego netbook | 17:56 |
| CosmoHill | sort of like a matching set | 17:56 |
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| ruskie | CosmoHill, look at touchbook or smartbook ;) | 17:57 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, watching tv on your meego tv and driving with your meego car is also on the list | 17:57 |
| lcuk | meego tv remote control :) | 17:57 |
| RST38h | Don't forget flying a meego airplane orsomething | 17:58 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, is there an airside ux? | 17:58 |
| lcuk | i know some folks o nthe mailing list are laughing about military ux | 17:59 |
| lcuk | but i never get the army, how on earth do they manage to find all their tanks and stuff | 17:59 |
| RST38h | No, but I can see embedded Atom SoCs in avionics | 17:59 |
| RST38h | Probably the same SoCs that are planned for automotive use | 18:00 |
| lcuk | once you camouflage them it gets difficult | 18:00 |
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| pupnik_ | i'd love meego on that LG Mini GD880... 180 euro without branding or lock | 18:01 |
| pupnik_ | 854x480 | 18:01 |
| RST38h | They find motorized equipment by oily traces =) | 18:01 |
| lcuk | pupnik_, but what cpu and system components has it got | 18:02 |
| pupnik_ | hehe | 18:03 |
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| pupnik_ | it has a radio, display and audio device | 18:03 |
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| CosmoHill | lcuk: the carPC would cost more than the car | 18:05 |
| lcuk | hmm CosmoHill | 18:05 |
| lcuk | why do you say that | 18:05 |
| CosmoHill | my car is insured for £400 IIRC | 18:05 |
| ruskie | so? | 18:06 |
| lcuk | is that still classified as a car? | 18:06 |
| CosmoHill | heeeyyy | 18:06 |
| ruskie | I think I pay ~200eur yearly for it | 18:06 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, its a bit unusual insuring a matchbox car :P | 18:06 |
| CosmoHill | ruskie: you rent? | 18:06 |
| ruskie | no | 18:06 |
| ruskie | own | 18:06 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: for some weird reason fully comp is cheaper than TFT | 18:07 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, who is main driver tho? or is this all your own policy | 18:07 |
| CosmoHill | dad is | 18:07 |
| CosmoHill | the car insurance costs more | 18:08 |
| lcuk | then, yes thats understandable | 18:08 |
| CosmoHill | but we'd get £400 - excess if it's written off | 18:08 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, the insurance for a car such as yours is less for yourself | 18:08 |
| lcuk | and more for other drivers | 18:08 |
| ruskie | we'd either get for repair... if it's marked as total ~1000eur | 18:08 |
| CosmoHill | when it runs out we're moving it over to my own name | 18:08 |
| ruskie | of coruse the car has 10+ years | 18:09 |
| lcuk | pupnik_, i was asking what spec cpu it has | 18:09 |
| sfriqueu | helo folks | 18:09 |
| ruskie | anyway afk | 18:09 |
| pupnik_ | lcuk: still looking for that | 18:09 |
| lcuk | ahh k | 18:09 |
| lcuk | thought you had specs around | 18:09 |
| sfriqueu | i just tested meego hahaha | 18:10 |
| sfriqueu | my microsd is so slow.. can even play with it =/ | 18:10 |
| lcuk | is that a mad scientist laugh? | 18:10 |
| CosmoHill | pupnik_: can I have a link | 18:10 |
| lcuk | sfriqueu, first boot is slower than other times | 18:10 |
| piru2 | hey | 18:11 |
| sfriqueu | even in N900 ? | 18:11 |
| sfriqueu | CosmoHill, why that so ? | 18:11 |
| lcuk | sfriqueu, especially in n900 | 18:11 |
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| lcuk | hi Alison_Chaiken | 18:11 |
| CosmoHill | hello | 18:11 |
| sfriqueu | luck why that ? | 18:11 |
| lcuk | sfriqueu, many technical reasons, but essentially boils down to caches and media scanning and stuff from what i hear. | 18:12 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Hyvaa huomenta everybody, lcuk. | 18:12 |
| lcuk | optimisation of the experience is ongoing | 18:12 |
| piru2 | in maemo I could do "git clone repo"; cd repo ; "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -D" | 18:12 |
| lcuk | heavy optimisation hopefully | 18:12 |
| lcuk | piru2, no you couldnt | 18:13 |
| sfriqueu | i undersand that is slow cause of my sd card | 18:13 |
| lcuk | dpkg-buildpackage was not supported on the maemo device itself :P | 18:13 |
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| * RST38h wonders if someone at Meego Devices management gathers enough courage to kill the Tracker | 18:13 | |
| piru2 | lcuk :) | 18:13 |
| sfriqueu | but does not make anysense be slower at first boot | 18:13 |
| sfriqueu | but anyway hahah | 18:13 |
| piru2 | in scratchbox :) | 18:13 |
| CosmoHill | it makes perfect sence to be slower first boot | 18:13 |
| lcuk | of course piru2, was jesting | 18:13 |
| sfriqueu | only if it does caching an stuff | 18:14 |
| lcuk | sfriqueu, its gotta organise its bits and shake itself out | 18:14 |
| lcuk | RST38h, principle of tracker is right | 18:14 |
| sfriqueu | i mean, not the "boot" is slow | 18:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: that is not enough though | 18:14 |
| sfriqueu | i am saying | 18:14 |
| sfriqueu | when i am using it | 18:14 |
| piru2 | what is the equivalent in meego-chroot | 18:14 |
| lcuk | RST38h, understood | 18:15 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: it has to actually *work* for the users and not cause them grief | 18:15 |
| lcuk | whats the replacement | 18:15 |
| piru2 | git clone repo | 18:15 |
| piru2 | cd repo | 18:15 |
| piru2 | rpmbuild package.spec | 18:15 |
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| piru2 | ~/rpmbuild/SOURCES/package.tar... not found | 18:15 |
| sfriqueu | how do i install a packeg in meego ? | 18:16 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Well, if I were doing it, I would deprioritize getting metadata | 18:16 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I would simply store filenames in the database | 18:16 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: I would still scan for metadata but in very short bursts, and only when device screen is off | 18:16 |
| lcuk | RST38h, :) sounds reasonable in theory | 18:17 |
| RST38h | I.e. when I am absolutely sure that the user is NOT using the device | 18:17 |
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| piru2 | *"rpmbuild -ba package.spec" | 18:17 |
| RST38h | Would probably also make the camera app produce thumbnails when it makes pictures | 18:18 |
| RST38h | As it has the data in memory at that moment | 18:18 |
| CosmoHill | RST38h: how about only scanning when it's connected to the charger too? | 18:18 |
| RST38h | Cosmo: there is a setting like that in Tracker. Not sure if it ever heeds it. | 18:18 |
| CosmoHill | cool | 18:18 |
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| RST38h | Cosmo: but this may not be very useful, as some people use their device when it is plugged in (on their desk, or in a car) | 18:19 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, that last bit about thumbs being created in sync with writing the original is deffo something that has been discussed in places | 18:19 |
| RST38h | Cosmo: screen off OR (no user input AND no CPU activity) is a better condition | 18:19 |
| lcuk | its something that i think should be happening for sure | 18:20 |
| RST38h | lcuk: "discussed" is not enough | 18:20 |
| lcuk | you have an in memory representation of a large image | 18:20 |
| lcuk | during writing it should scale and save thumbnail in process | 18:20 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: yep | 18:20 |
| lcuk | RST38h, it depends on who the discussion is with | 18:20 |
| RST38h | lcuk: it may not be elegant from tracker author's point of view, but it will improvecustomer experience (i.e. remove one of the major pissing point) | 18:21 |
| RST38h | point | 18:21 |
| lcuk | agreed, it also saves cpu | 18:21 |
| RST38h | pointS, hell, what is it with these "island" keyboards | 18:21 |
| lcuk | no point in reloading and decoding the image | 18:21 |
| lcuk | to produce a thumbnail just afterwards | 18:21 |
| RST38h | lcuk: CPU isn't usually a problem in N900 (and probably other similar devices). It is memory and disk activity | 18:22 |
| lcuk | RST38h, its simply a waste | 18:22 |
| RST38h | lcuk: in this case, you are saving on disk activity, a very important point | 18:22 |
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| RST38h | and you do not need to start up thumbnailer, causing swapping | 18:22 |
| lcuk | yup and whatever race conditions may present themselves | 18:23 |
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| lcuk | "oh look" says tracker, a new image has been saved, oh its already got a thumbnail, NO-OP :) | 18:23 |
| RST38h | and no, unless this is actually implemented and distributed as part of PR, it does not count as something that matters for me | 18:23 |
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| RST38h | We have seen too many "discussions" over the last few years | 18:24 |
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| CosmoHill | RST38h: take a gun to you next discussion | 18:24 |
| RST38h | Cosmo: I have a simpler solution | 18:25 |
| RST38h | Cosmo: Of not discussing anything with people who have no ability or desire to act on it | 18:26 |
| lcuk | RST38h, how do you know these things arent already on the table? | 18:26 |
| CosmoHill | that sounds better, also a lot easier than getting a gun | 18:26 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I do not | 18:26 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: All I care is that the person I am talking too is capable of putting them on the table | 18:27 |
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| lcuk | well hopefully whatever the current state, some folks have hopefully read this and can ask their own questions and see whether anything can be done | 18:28 |
| RST38h | lcuk: it is #meego, not #maemo though | 18:29 |
| RST38h | I am sure meego will have its own set of warts | 18:29 |
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| CosmoHill | warts? | 18:30 |
| lcuk | RST38h, warts are everywhere, but thankfully are mostly treatable :P | 18:30 |
| lcuk | tho shouldnt ask tonight, since theres a lot of witches around | 18:30 |
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| * lcuk got jacob walking around like a zombie asking for brains earlier | 18:30 | |
| CosmoHill | awww | 18:31 |
| lcuk | tho he still runs away like a girl if i put a mask on | 18:31 |
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| CosmoHill | you should keep the mask for whenever he does something naughty | 18:34 |
| CosmoHill | if he's done something naughty in the day, when you tuck him in at night you should put the mask on before you enter his room | 18:35 |
| lcuk | nahhh | 18:35 |
| lcuk | that would be evil | 18:35 |
| lcuk | i just have to reach for the cupboard | 18:35 |
| lcuk | we put it ontop of the chocolate thats in there | 18:35 |
| lcuk | surprisingly, he hasnt been helping himself this afternoon | 18:36 |
| CosmoHill | lol | 18:36 |
| CosmoHill | that would be so funny if he pulls the box down and that falls into his hands | 18:36 |
| lcuk | heh | 18:36 |
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| CosmoHill | better yet, when he opens the door that is in there looking down at him | 18:39 |
| CosmoHill | I really should stop thinking of ways to scare children | 18:40 |
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| CosmoHill | I wonder if meego will run on this: http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_5487.html | 18:47 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, ask yourself a better question: will the remote software from logitech run in meego | 18:51 |
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| pervert | I have a laptop that i've got IVI 1.1 on, and in ubuntu i can get my resolution normal/etc. but the UI is waaay out of bounds on this monitor. i set up a 10-monitor.conf file with 2048x1536 (native res), but its still way out of bounds | 20:21 |
| pervert | is there some other place to change ui scale? the res looks right. the text is crazy tiny | 20:23 |
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| piratephlox | hi, I'm looking for general information on meego and widgets. | 20:29 |
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| piratephlox | I write an article about meego, and thats still to cover. | 20:29 |
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| piratephlox | any hint where to find more infos about widgets? | 20:29 |
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| the_lord | Hi! | 20:32 |
| the_lord | where can I find information about dual booting maemo and meego? | 20:32 |
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| piratephlox | hi the_lord, just read that as a topic in the wiki-FAQ: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Netbook_FAQ#Can_I_run_MeeGo_in_a_dual_.2F_triple_boot_environment.3F | 20:36 |
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| piratephlox | btw. why is the no tablet section under devices? | 20:48 |
| piratephlox | at meego.com I mean. | 20:48 |
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| Myrtti | piratephlox: because there isn't anything published for it yet | 20:51 |
| Myrtti | (my guess) | 20:51 |
| piratephlox | I guess so to, just would like to know, if there is one to be. my problem is that I write an article now, and its published after the conference :/ | 20:52 |
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| smithna | pervert: IVI doesn't seem to run well on high resolutions.... | 20:52 |
| Myrtti | piratephlox: I wouldn't be sourcing my articles on IRC anyway | 20:53 |
| piratephlox | sure. I'd rather look on the net. but wikipedia isn't the best source either. may someone here knows some sources for it. | 20:54 |
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| piratephlox | still looking for a page that says something about meego and widgets, sofar I couldn't find any. | 20:54 |
| pervert | smithna: yeah i can see that. i think maybe its just the skin. or whats a good res to run it in? | 20:59 |
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| sofar | piratephlox: what do you mean with "widgets"? | 21:04 |
| sofar | are you talking about the phone applications or about the graphical toolkit used? | 21:05 |
| piratephlox | mobile widgets. all I know about widgets on meego is, that wrt could be used for it. | 21:05 |
| piratephlox | html5 widgets kind of I mean. | 21:05 |
| piratephlox | I've written already some stuff for qt, now I'd also like to get the widgets stuff covered in my article. | 21:06 |
| piratephlox | meego.com isn't really diversifing my knowledge about that, so. | 21:06 |
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| sofar | the knowledge is in the code | 21:06 |
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| sofar | wrt code is available - why not check that out? | 21:08 |
| piratephlox | heck, I'm not looking for code, I look for some offical page, telling what kind of widgets are in meego. | 21:08 |
| CosmoHill | sofar: hey | 21:08 |
| CosmoHill | you might be the person to talk to | 21:08 |
| RST38h | pirate: Making a guess here: whatever you end up writing, it will not be very informative | 21:09 |
| piratephlox | btw. cosmohill: the resolution of the images you pointed to yesterday should be high enough. they are just downscaled for the browser. | 21:09 |
| CosmoHill | piratephlox: ah cool | 21:09 |
| CosmoHill | I'm about to talk to auke about them | 21:10 |
| smithna | pervert: The default res is 856x480 (I think) | 21:10 |
| sofar | piratephlox: MeeGo has never used the word "widgets" ever | 21:10 |
| sofar | not in any official document | 21:10 |
| RST38h | yep | 21:10 |
| piratephlox | RST38h well, so far I havent written anything about widgets. | 21:10 |
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| sofar | so, if you wanna talk about widgets, .... it's not even related to MeeGo | 21:10 |
| RST38h | So, at best, you will have to extrapolate from technologies introduced in Maemo5 | 21:10 |
| piratephlox | so, what is the word they use in meego for this? | 21:10 |
| * CosmoHill pokes DawnFoster | 21:11 | |
| sofar | applications | 21:11 |
| RST38h | There is a good chance they will be implemented in Meego the same way as Maemo5 | 21:11 |
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| RST38h | Actually, the first attempt at googling for "meego wrt" brings this page: http://meego.com/developers/meego-api | 21:12 |
| RST38h | I doubt you will get much more by asking here | 21:13 |
| RST38h | Marked as "upcoming" | 21:13 |
| RST38h | Here is documentation on using WRT in Meego SDK 1.1: http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/MeeGo_SDK_with_WRT | 21:14 |
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| piratephlox | thanks. at least I know know its not worth writing too much about it. | 21:14 |
| RST38h | Well, it depends on your scope | 21:14 |
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| RST38h | In a certain sense, it may not be worth to write anything about Meego at all, as the project's UI has not been completed yet | 21:15 |
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| RST38h | From the other point of view though, you may want to cover all the main technologies (Qt, QML, QtQuick, WRT, Mobility) | 21:15 |
| piratephlox | oh well, for now its 2,5 pages. | 21:16 |
| RST38h | And repositories, for a good measure | 21:16 |
| RST38h | Double-spaced? :) | 21:16 |
| piratephlox | about meego, qt, appstores, history and so on. | 21:16 |
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| piratephlox | a lot about the 5 device things and a bit speculation about tablets. something about meego phones etc. | 21:17 |
| piratephlox | its just a small article for an overview about meego. | 21:17 |
| RST38h | Hell, you could just plagiarize a random t.m.o post instead! 8) | 21:18 |
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| RST38h | Posters wouldn't mind, in fact, they wouldn't be able to tell which exact post you plagiarized. | 21:18 |
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| piratephlox | application, hm, what you call then an app written with qt? | 21:19 |
| piratephlox | at least here in germany there are native apps (qt apps f.e.) and (html5) widgets, as far as it goes about mobile technologies. | 21:20 |
| RST38h | application is a program you start and use and quit | 21:21 |
| RST38h | widget is something that hangs around your desktop permanently | 21:21 |
| RST38h | the language it is coded in does not really affect this division | 21:22 |
| rauli | some gui toolkits call the ui elements widgets | 21:22 |
| berndhs | RST38h: yeah but you ask 5 professionals, you get 8 definitions of "widget" | 21:22 |
| RST38h | ok, let us call the hang-around crap applets | 21:22 |
| RST38h | and call UI coding primitives widgets | 21:22 |
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| RST38h | AmigaOS called them gadgets btw =) | 21:23 |
| lcuk | user extensible desktop widget plugins :P | 21:23 |
| RST38h | it does notmatter what you call them as long as your readers understand what you mean | 21:23 |
| niala_sofa-tv | RST38h: ;) rohh amiga workbench long time ago. Once upon a time was the comodore 64.... | 21:24 |
| RST38h | C=64 was from the previous age | 21:24 |
| RST38h | Amiga was from the future though | 21:24 |
| rauli | amiga was a fascist regime anyway, let us not go there | 21:24 |
| RST38h | ended up very similarly to how maemo/meego may one day... | 21:25 |
| niala_sofa-tv | RST38h: please insert a disk to boot | 21:25 |
| RST38h | so, not entirely offtopic | 21:25 |
| lcuk | having a disk box full of microsd cards in for different meego boots is "cute" | 21:25 |
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| lcuk | flipping through your friends disk collection to find that game he got off a magazine cover :D | 21:26 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: would be cuter to finally fix kexec and make it bootable from a single card, without having to swap them... | 21:26 |
| lcuk | RST38h, sure | 21:26 |
| lcuk | step by step | 21:26 |
| rauli | piratephlox: qt apps have to be built separately for each target platform (phone, netbook, whatever), while the WRE stuff should run as-is on any of them i guess | 21:27 |
| piratephlox | i know :) | 21:27 |
| piratephlox | with qt you get the performance of c++ on every platform it supports. | 21:27 |
| * _MeeGoBot_ mumbles something about c++ being evil | 21:27 | |
| pupnik | based on the meego previews on n900, i'd say you get the shitty performance | 21:28 |
| lcuk | c++ is a tool, it is not evil in itself | 21:28 |
| rauli | i was quite surprised how much faster meego feels than ubuntu netbook remix on my samsung nc10 | 21:28 |
| lcuk | evil developers. thats a different story altogether :P | 21:28 |
| pupnik | lcuk: OO makes people ignore performance | 21:28 |
| lcuk | pupnik, you can have OO and performance | 21:29 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: Not OO | 21:31 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Dogmatism makes people ignore real priorities | 21:31 |
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| dwmw2_BOS | qt's use of C++ isn't that bad | 21:32 |
| dwmw2_BOS | it's a sane subset | 21:32 |
| dwmw2_BOS | no exceptions, etc. | 21:32 |
| rauli | maybe if you start stacking up virtual inheritance, but there certainly is more ways to writing c++ than c, and not all of them are evil | 21:32 |
| RST38h | pupnik: OO by itself is fine. It is when you make OO the main goal of your work, you start forgetting about actual goals | 21:32 |
| dwmw2_BOS | C++ is a whole bunch of mostly misguided shit bolted onto the side of C | 21:32 |
| mechanic | hello everyone just checking in | 21:32 |
| dwmw2_BOS | qt is relatively tasteful in what it uses of that extra shit | 21:32 |
| RST38h | rauli: you can stack up as many classes as you like. Virtual function call is still one lookup away | 21:32 |
| piratephlox | C++ is not java pupnik. the language isn't build around oo. | 21:32 |
| RST38h | The usual culprit in bad performance and reliability of C++ code is the new/delete | 21:33 |
| lcuk | dwmw2_BOS, some would say the MOC ontop to give inheritence chains throws what you said to the side | 21:33 |
| RST38h | By extension, STL usually leads to performance problems | 21:34 |
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| lcuk | you rarely hear people complaining about how clean and presentable qt code actually is (infact theres many compliments) | 21:34 |
| dwmw2_BOS | lcuk: perhaps | 21:34 |
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| pervert | i code in qbasic 4.5 | 21:34 |
| dwmw2_BOS | I have a vague recollection of hating that part :) | 21:34 |
| dwmw2_BOS | it's been a quite since I did anything in qt though | 21:34 |
| lcuk | pervert, hm? | 21:35 |
| dwmw2_BOS | not since I was working on the iPaq stuff in about 2002 | 21:35 |
| pervert | lol. "hm?" is right. i was just being a tool | 21:35 |
| lcuk | pervert, :) | 21:35 |
| RST38h | [state-of-factly] Two perverts meet. | 21:35 |
| rauli | pervert: you idiot! turbo pascal 7.0 would give you a nice clean ui library and superb compilation and execution performance | 21:36 |
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| piratephlox | RST38h only if you don't know how to use STL. | 21:36 |
| RST38h | pirate: Most people who "know how to use STL" at this level, do not care about anything else but STL | 21:36 |
| mechanic | WTF is a N900 anyway? | 21:36 |
| dwmw2_BOS | mechanic: nokia linux-based phone | 21:36 |
| dwmw2_BOS | successor of their N770/N800/N810 range, except this time with GSM | 21:37 |
| RST38h | pirate: So, you either get problems due to people not knowing that you have to write your own memory allocation code for effective STL use | 21:37 |
| mechanic | Ah thought it must be a mobile device. ta! | 21:37 |
| RST38h | pirate: Or you get problems due to people who spend 90% of their work time writing memory allocation code for effective STL use | 21:37 |
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| rittk | dwmw2_BOS: and with fake battery) | 21:38 |
| pupnik | RST38h: do you think that people who learn programming with procedural or OO have a more useful outlook and skill-set to writing fast code? | 21:38 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: OO is still procedural | 21:38 |
| mechanic | Is this netbook version of Meego just a sideline or are they really trying to promote it on this platform? | 21:38 |
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| piratephlox | STL is a template library, it already offers quite good memoryallocation. | 21:39 |
| * dwmw2_BOS learned to program in ml :) | 21:39 | |
| dwmw2_BOS | lambda-calculus ftw | 21:39 |
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| mechanic | Where's the quality framework in Meego, coding standards, release criteria, code reviews? | 21:40 |
| mechanic | Not impressed with the bug lifecycle process diagram either | 21:40 |
| piratephlox | thats probably in the future of meego ;) | 21:40 |
| RST38h | pupnik: In fact, OO is not a coding method, it is a data organization method | 21:41 |
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| pupnik | meh | 21:41 |
| pupnik | point taken | 21:41 |
| pupnik | now can you understand the question despite that? | 21:41 |
| mechanic | Still there seem to be a lot of real programmers involved, presumably they are paid? | 21:41 |
| RST38h | pupnik: case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_Lisp | 21:42 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Well, answering your question at its face value, I think that starting children with OO from the beginning is wrong | 21:43 |
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| mechanic | What was wrong with Logo as a starting language? | 21:43 |
| RST38h | pupnik: If you are teaching them programming, Pascal or BASIC are probably the most fitting languages | 21:43 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: Both are generic enough to be similar to other widespread languages (so the kid will not have to relearn programming) | 21:44 |
| mechanic | But who learns programming these days, code writing is becoming automated | 21:44 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Both are easy and low on keywords | 21:44 |
| pupnik | ty, i agree | 21:44 |
| pupnik | also not too much abstraction | 21:44 |
| RST38h | pupnik: There is just enough | 21:44 |
| RST38h | pupnik: OO is something you show them once they start writing code and discover that they are better off grouping properties into structures | 21:45 |
| piratephlox | maybe Brainfuck? | 21:45 |
| RST38h | pupnik: At which point you suggest adding methods too, and you have got primitive OO | 21:45 |
| RST38h | Just like C++, hehe :) | 21:46 |
| pupnik | :) | 21:46 |
| pupnik | at university, starting with something like scheme is good for seperating out the people who shouldn't be in the programme | 21:46 |
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| RST38h | Dunno, Scheme probably qualifies as cruel/unusual punishment | 21:47 |
| RST38h | Like placing newborn kittens into a room with lined walls to see if they can still recognize vertical lines after that | 21:47 |
| RST38h | (do note that I am all for experimenting on humans, there are just too many around, but there are better experiments to conduct) | 21:48 |
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| pupnik | lol | 21:55 |
| CosmoHill | who would I need to speak to about the screen shots? | 21:55 |
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| pupnik | nice analogy RST38h | 22:07 |
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| rittk | newborn kittens are blind, AFAIK | 22:33 |
| CosmoHill | only for a few days | 22:33 |
| CosmoHill | it's more that they can't open their eyes than are actually blind | 22:33 |
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| rittk | btw, who added those cute kittens to a demo media?) | 22:34 |
| lcuk | on this night of Halloween, shouldn't Meego have a Scary UX? | 22:36 |
| lcuk | modded broomsticks | 22:36 |
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| leinir | Hehe, halloweenie meegons ;) | 22:37 |
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| sofar | rittk: someone at intel but I haven't figured out who yet... | 22:40 |
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| rittk | also I have an idea for the meego bootscreen | 22:43 |
| rittk | make it like those stereo images) | 22:44 |
| sofar | red/blue glasses? | 22:44 |
| rittk | no | 22:44 |
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| * rittk googling | 22:44 | |
| sofar | http://www.mpi-inf.mpg.de/~gziegler/stereo/images/stereo_example.png ? | 22:46 |
| rittk | http://berland.ru/stereo/sirds_1610091.php | 22:46 |
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| sofar | those are annoying as hell | 22:48 |
| owen1 | can i use meego on an arm tablet, as the archos 101? | 22:48 |
| rittk | thebootscreen's background looks exactly like these stereoimages | 22:49 |
| rittk | but w/o anyhiddenimage) | 22:49 |
| sofar | ah IC | 22:49 |
| sofar | owen1: in theory yes, in practice anything not on the support list will require a certain amount of work to get it working | 22:49 |
| * rittk hits his keyboard | 22:50 | |
| owen1 | sofar: where can i find a list of devices+ | 22:50 |
| sofar | http://meego.com/ see top-right part | 22:50 |
| sofar | http://iphonevsdroid.net/tag/archos-101-meego/ | 22:50 |
| owen1 | thakn | 22:50 |
| sofar | it's claimed archos 101 runs meego | 22:50 |
| owen1 | 10x | 22:50 |
| sofar | but I don't recall confirmation | 22:51 |
| sofar | afk | 22:51 |
| CosmoHill | sofar: a char is 1 byte, correct? | 22:53 |
| sofar | yes | 22:53 |
| sofar | that's why strings are arrays of chars | 22:54 |
| pervert | holy shit. its 2pm and kids are already trick-or-treating | 22:54 |
| sofar | wow | 22:54 |
| CosmoHill | a long int would be 16 bytes? | 22:54 |
| sofar | that's early | 22:54 |
| pervert | yeah, its super early | 22:54 |
| pervert | i better go get some candy or leave my dog outside to scare the kids away | 22:54 |
| sofar | long int? no I thought that was 8 bytes (64bit) | 22:54 |
| CosmoHill | pervert: put the candy on the dog house | 22:55 |
| sofar | CosmoHill: sizeof(long) | 22:55 |
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| sofar | CosmoHill: but, it varies per standard and the only way to know for sure is to use sizeof() | 22:56 |
| CosmoHill | ah, a long int is the size of the processor | 22:56 |
| rittk | it also varies per platform | 22:56 |
| rittk | yep | 22:56 |
| CosmoHill | so 32 bits = 4 bytes | 22:56 |
| sofar | afaik long long == 128bits (16 bytes) | 22:56 |
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| sofar | yeah I'm mostly focussed on ia32 | 22:57 |
| CosmoHill | so my program wants to put 38B on the processor | 22:57 |
| sofar | 4.75 bytes, lol | 22:57 |
| sofar | what's packed in that? a float? | 22:57 |
| CosmoHill | 38 bytes | 22:57 |
| sofar | oh bytes | 22:57 |
| CosmoHill | small b for bytes? | 22:58 |
| sofar | the only way to reliably do that is probably a string | 22:58 |
| sofar | b/B are not consistent, always use the word | 22:58 |
| sofar | are you making me do your homework? | 22:59 |
| CosmoHill | sofar: as an intel person you might like to know this, my program has been running on an Intel Xeon E5520 | 22:59 |
| CosmoHill | ...since monday | 22:59 |
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| CosmoHill | sofar: nope | 23:01 |
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| sofar | shrug, we have those around in the office | 23:01 |
| sofar | sorry, unless it's unreleased hardware it doesn't get me excited anymore :) | 23:02 |
| CosmoHill | I barely have anything new, let alone unreleased :p | 23:02 |
| CosmoHill | when I say since monday, I mean solidly running | 23:07 |
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| owen1 | i want to run meego on a vm. i have Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz. i read that it have to be SSSE3. is my cpu ok? | 23:18 |
| CosmoHill | no | 23:18 |
| CosmoHill | You will need a Atom or C2 or newer | 23:19 |
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| owen1 | CosmoHill: got it | 23:21 |
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