IRC log of #meego for Sunday, 2010-10-17

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CosmoHilllcuk: btw I called my cluster Nectar because it's made out of NEC computers :)00:48
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sofarStskeeps: yes01:38
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CosmoHillcyas03:00
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pupnikdoes anyone from 'wetab' chat here?07:54
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Texrathello gang10:04
sivanghey Texrat10:04
Texrathey sivang10:04
Texratgot my flight to Dublin squared away10:05
Texratnot much activity10:06
sivangTexrat: same here, yes10:06
Texratwake up Europe!10:06
sivangheh10:06
sivangIt is sunday10:07
Texratgood to hear sivang10:07
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Texratyeah, I'm working... change migration conference call with India10:07
Texrat7 or so hours of hell10:07
sivangTexrat: change migration? is this for BOSS with Intel?10:08
Texratno, this is my real job10:08
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TexratMeeGo is a hobby10:08
dm8tbrhyvää huomenta10:09
sivangTexrat: Been to Qt Dev Days, and got somewhat intense intro to QML, that was way cool10:09
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Texratman, I wish I could go to one10:10
Texratcoming to a city a few hours from me, can't go10:10
sivangTexrat: San Fransisco right?10:10
Texratno, I live near Dallas, and it's coming to Austin this week10:10
TexratDallas high tech is fading, so few events now10:11
sivangTexrat: ah I see, well, next time perhaps? there were a couple of quite deep sessions which was nice to see how they manage to cater for both beginners and seasoned at once.10:11
Texratwe'll see10:11
sivangTexrat: and material should be available onine soon.10:12
* sivang checks email10:12
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Texratoh sivang, congratulations on also getting Forum Nokia Champion10:22
Texratso sivang: do you get to keep the N8 they hand out at QT dev event?10:24
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thiago_homehas anyone returned their N900s from last year?10:32
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Texrathey thiago_home10:38
TexratI think some did return their N900s10:38
TexratI was told I could keep mine10:38
thiago_homewe have some N00 in the office with those plastic covers still10:39
thiago_homethey serve a purpose10:39
Texratreally?10:39
TexratI have an N00 but it's an N810 ;)10:39
Texratgift from my work on the N800 program10:40
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thiago_homeI just hope I can keep my current proto10:48
thiago_homeI'm trying to figure out how long this battery lasts10:49
Texratthiago_home I'm surprised to only see 2 lightning talks submitted so far10:50
TexratI'm almost done with mine ;)10:50
sivangTexrat: I did not get an N8 at dev days, only ambassadors and people who answered right at crap/fact get those :)10:50
sivangTexrat: I am FN champion since feb last year10:50
Texratbummer sivang10:50
Texratso you got renewed, cool sivang10:50
Texratit only took me 4+ years to get nominated :P10:50
TexratI really owe achipa10:51
Texrathe said FN wanted more Americans :D10:51
Texratso I'm a protected minority10:52
sivangTexrat: yeah, I was quite lucky. Not sure how it happened, but someone either nominated me and reviewed my ongoing FOSS work which was very nice and considerate10:52
sivangTexrat: hehe10:52
Texratdid you order the gift phone yet?10:52
TexratI went for N8... wonder when they ship10:52
thiago_homeTexrat: we've only just opened the lightening talks10:53
Texratthiago_home I know, but several people had been askign for a while now10:53
TexratI figured they would jump into the wiki like I did10:54
thiago_homemail them back :-)10:54
Texratwait until you guys see mine :D10:54
* thiago_home expects a good 5-minute talk from everyone10:54
Texratmine will rock10:54
thiago_homethe one I liked the most was at GCDS about what not to do in your UI10:54
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sivangTexrat: I got 1 year membership since last feb, and back then there was no N8 to order, either way I prefer linux phones :)10:55
Texratfor Maemo Summit I was asked at last minute to turn my 20 min talk to 5... a disaster10:55
sivangTexrat: so I ordered an N90010:55
Texratah, cool sivang10:55
sivangTexrat: I hope to be elected for a second period :)10:55
Texratsivang I'm sure you will10:56
sivangFN championship is highly educational and motivating10:56
thiago_homethe N8 is an ARMv6 device. I wonder if we're going to see a MeeGo ARMv6 build pop up. :)10:56
Texratyes, and I'm hoping the logo on my resume and busienss cards will pay off :D10:56
TexratI need a new job badly!  :O10:56
Texratthiago_home someone will do it!10:56
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thiago_homeTexrat: did you join DD MUC? Or coming to SF?10:57
Texratthiago_home I can't come to SF10:57
Stskeepsthiago_home: well, someone had handset ux on top of broadcom gfx.. so there's hope10:57
thiago_homeStskeeps: that's just graphics. The problem is the ARM core.10:57
Texratcan't afford trip and MeeGo Conf will use rest of my vacation days10:57
Stskeepsthiago_home: yeah, and with armv5 userland..10:57
thiago_homethere10:57
Texrathey again Stskeeps10:57
Stskeepsmoo10:58
Texrathoo10:58
thiago_homeTexrat: no vacation days left?10:58
Texratthiago_home not after MeeGo conf10:58
thiago_homeand before?10:58
Texratonly 2 weeks per year at current employer10:58
thiago_homeah10:58
TexratI used up a week earlier, at Akademy 201010:58
Texratworth it10:59
Stskeepsoh dear, i need to make business cards10:59
dm8tbryep, it was nice :)10:59
Texratit was awesome10:59
TexratI had the best damn time10:59
* thiago_home needs to check on his business cards supply in the office10:59
Stskeepsi have a meego role and that's my job, how on earth do i write that? :P10:59
thiago_homethe half of the 200 batch I kept at home is over10:59
TexratI make custom cards for every event10:59
* dm8tbr has 200g/m² paper for exactly that reason :)10:59
TexratStskeeps = lucky bastard10:59
Texratoh and congrats Stskeeps for Yet Another Prestigious Title11:00
StskeepsTexrat: well, it may look like that but wait until you see what i have to deal with :P11:00
StskeepsTexrat: and thanks11:00
Texratdude I would so trade you11:01
TexratI am workign as we speak, and hate it11:01
Texrat7 hours + on a conference call...11:01
TexratI am losing brain cells by the second11:01
Stskeepsi start losing braincells after like 1 1/2 hours11:01
Texratslow poke11:01
Texrathey Stskeeps: email me some humorous photos of you for my lightning talk11:04
Texrattexrat@ovi.com11:04
StskeepsTexrat: just find my video from my first ever Mer talk and that should be enough..11:04
Texrattimoph and revdkathy sent me some great ones11:04
Texratfeh, video11:04
Texratthen I have to edit11:04
Texratjust send a photo, I'll make you a star11:05
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Stskeepshttp://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/fb.JPG11:06
Stskeeps:P11:06
Texratgot my talk almost done.  Worked for a few hours on it today so thiago_home better vote for it11:06
sivangthiago_home: I hope we do see abuild, I already fantisized about it 2 months ago on the MLs11:06
Texratawesome Stskeeps11:06
sivangthiago_home: I'm also in your same desperate need for a new j :)11:06
sivangoop11:07
sivangoops11:07
sivangTexrat:   ^^^^^^11:07
* thiago_home has a j middlename11:07
sivangthiago_home: how was flight back?11:07
Texratthat will go well with timoph's rubber glove hat picture11:07
thiago_homesivang: slept nicely most of the way11:07
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thiago_homewas quite tired after the celebrations on Wednesday11:07
sivangthiago_home: ah the Nokia only event afterwards?11:07
Texratsivang what do you do now?11:08
thiago_homeyes11:08
thiago_homewe went out for dinner11:08
thiago_homeand beer11:08
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sivangthiago_home: beer again? :)11:09
sivangthiago_home: actually the beer was the best part,11:09
sivangthiago_home: the food was rather bad for me.11:09
sivangthiago_home: in the conf's hotel that is, I should write in the feedback there should be more options for people who can't eat so fatty foods :)11:10
johnxoption: I'll eat their food for them :>11:11
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MyrttiTexrat: ohai11:11
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TexratMyrtti babeeee11:12
Texratyou gonan be at MeeGo Conference Myrtti?11:12
Myrttinope...11:13
Texratawww11:13
TexratDuncan?11:13
Myrttieven more unlikely11:13
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Myrttimeh Sunday11:19
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sivangMyrtti: sunday is nice, when you are in a country where sunday is a weekend :)11:29
johnxgah. already sunday here. still feels like saturday11:31
Myrttisivang: sure... apart from when theres absolutely nothing to do11:33
Stskeepswait, it's weekend?11:33
Stskeeps:P11:33
sivangStskeeps: hehe11:33
sivangStskeeps: dude you should get some help11:34
sivangStskeeps: which I would have offered had there been a platform hacking guide :-)11:34
Stskeepsnext week is documentation..11:34
Stskeeps:P11:34
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Myrttiright, off to entertain mum. tata11:49
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^Ranhello11:53
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^Ranmaybe anyone restored deleted meego btrfs partition?11:54
Texratalmost 4 am Texas time and man am I sleepy!11:57
stephgAlmost 10am London time and I'm sleepy ;)11:58
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sivangStskeeps: sounds great.12:09
pupnikless filling!12:11
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timophTexrat: 12:22 pm in Finland and I'm sleepy too :)12:23
Texrathey timoph12:23
timophthe decided to wake me up at 5am (again)12:23
Texratlove that glove hat12:23
timophcat12:23
timoph:)12:23
Texrathope there was no brain damage12:24
timophtook some effort to get it stretched to my head12:24
timophthose gloves were actually too small for my hands :)12:25
sivangtimoph: how cold is it already? snowing/raining?12:25
timophto for some reason it felt like a good idea to wear one as a hat12:25
timoph4 degrees currently, no snow yet in Tampere12:26
timophit snowed a bit a few days back12:26
sivangah that's nice12:26
sivang:)12:26
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sivangtimoph: were you in dev days btw?12:27
timophnope12:27
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timophtoo busy working or something :)12:27
sivangheh12:27
timophthat 4 degrees means 39 degrees for fahrenheit people12:28
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sivangtimoph: I'm with centigrades so no problem for me :)12:29
timoph:)12:29
johnxtimoph, don't do conversion for them, otherwise they'll never learn :P12:29
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sivangtimoph: and people comlained Munich was cold :)12:30
sivangtimoph: I told them 10c is summer :)12:30
timophI didn't. Ubuntu did :) (changed the weather widget's setting)12:30
timophyep. Really waiting for those -30 winter days12:31
johnxif you wait for the -40 days you won't have to do the C-to-F conversion for people ;) (that's IIRC)12:32
timoph:)12:32
sivangtimoph: are you really waiting for those days?12:34
timophnot really12:35
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timophthose days are usually very pretty but it's painfull to go out12:36
markeysivang: hey dude :)12:37
markeyhad a good trip home?12:37
timophanyone seen the movie 'the american'? any good?12:38
* timoph is thinking of going to the movies today12:39
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sivangmarkey: hey!12:46
sivangmarkey: I did, yes, it was quite good and I've mostly recovered already.12:47
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* markey fetches some breakfast12:48
CosmoHillmarkey: what country are you in?12:49
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markeyCosmoHill: living in Switzerland (but I am German)12:49
CosmoHillwhat time is it there?12:49
sivangmarkey: seen the sprint outcome on the techbase wiki already? I failed logging in the techbase page, /me retries12:50
markeyCosmoHill: 11:5212:52
markeysivang: no, not yet, but I should really do that ASAP12:52
CosmoHillyou could wait 8 mins and call it lunch :p12:52
sivangmarkey: same as here12:52
sivangmarkey: and send your outcome and stuff to Dan quickly12:52
sivangmarkey: he's waiting for this for the dot article12:52
markeyiKnow12:53
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nialahi, have a nice and cold day.13:46
djszapiin Finland ?13:53
djszapior in Brazil :)13:54
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thiago_homegiven that IP, he's in France13:56
arfollhas anyone found any of the source code used by the WeTab? 4titoo or whatever they are called seem to be clearly violating the GPL and not caring about it...14:00
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timeless_mbparfoll: have you bought one?14:14
Stskeepsarfoll: what is missing?14:15
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arfolltimeless_mbp, no but everything14:17
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arfollthere are quite a few posts on the german community forum complaining14:17
Stskeepsarfoll: at least the meego 1.0 base should be == meego 1.014:18
arfollthey don't even have their kernel sources anywhere14:18
Stskeepsah, kernel14:18
arfollStskeeps, their kernel is kernel-wetab so I bet they have their own patches in their for example14:18
thiago_homearfoll: you don't get to ask for the sources unless you buy the device14:19
Stskeepsah14:19
timeless_mbpisn't gpl something which just requires an offer letter to people instead of a permanent online repository?14:19
thiago_homefor all you know, the manual has a URL where you can download everything14:19
pupnikhows the battery life on that WeTab turning-out?14:19
arfollthiago_home, GPL sources are available to all14:19
thiago_homeno14:19
Chaniarfoll: no14:19
Chaniarfoll: what thiago_home says is correct.14:19
thiago_homeGPL sources must be made available to all who receive GPL binaries14:19
arfollChani, and I can download their binaries14:20
Chaniif you offer someone the binary, *then* you must also offer them the source.14:20
arfollChani, therefore they must give me their sources14:20
timeless_mbpChani:  no14:20
thiago_homecan you? are you sure the sources aren't right next to it?14:20
timeless_mbponly if they take the binary14:20
Chaniarfoll: you can?14:20
timeless_mbpif you offer me a binary and i don't take it from you14:20
timeless_mbpi'm not entitled to your sources14:20
arfollChani, yes here -   http://update.tiitoo.com/stable/1.0/system/14:20
Chanihuh14:22
thiago_homeok, then it sounds like the SRPMS are missing14:22
thiago_homehave you mailed them asking?14:22
timeless_mbpthis is a great web page: http://tiitoo.com/14:22
Chaniwell, that's a repo... no html anywhere... odd that I don't see any -source packages but I don't know rpm very well14:22
arfollthiago_home, yes I have no reply, and on the german community forums people have been asking for a while14:23
arfollI doubt i'm the first14:23
Chaniarfoll: yeah, that sounds like a gpl issue then. :/14:23
thiago_homethen they need to reply14:23
arfollI posted on meego-dev hoping to incite a reply14:24
arfollthiago_home, you said their manual had a page to download their sources?14:24
thiago_homeno14:24
thiago_homeI said "for all you know, it might have"14:24
thiago_homeI don't have the manual to confirm14:25
Stskeepsor a written offer14:25
arfollah i know it doesn't I've been speaking to a guy that has a wetab, it may have a written offer14:25
Robot101so why hasn't someone taken the sources and put them online immediately? :)14:25
thiago_homebut 4tiitoo needs to reply to people who have the offer if that's the case14:26
thiago_homemore than likely they're swamped in emails and work and don't know what to do14:26
arfollRobot101, i'm guessing they haven't given them14:26
timeless_mbpRobot101: that requires resources14:27
timeless_mbp!= 0 $$14:27
timeless_mbpto be fair, and to be on topic for #meego, someone should ensure that meego's wiki has a page that documents how to set up a repository14:27
arfollthiago_home, if you're taking GPL code you should have the ressources to redistribute the sources14:27
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thiago_homearfoll: yep14:27
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arfollno ressources is no excuse. And this is on topic14:28
timeless_mbpand ensure that it highlights that it's virtually necessary to provide src.rpm files in the repository to satisfy license requirements w/o undo burden/headaches14:28
timeless_mbparfoll: that was to Robot10114:28
timeless_mbpdifferent thread14:28
timeless_mbpif i actually were to get the sources, i'm not obligated to share them14:28
arfolltimeless_mbp, ah fair enough - and yes they have to at least provide all sources + patches + spec which basically means a src.rpm14:28
timeless_mbpand i might choose not to because it would cost *me* money to host them14:28
Robot101not obligated no, but most people who care about gpl violations a) do want to share them, and b) have a server to do so14:29
timeless_mbpRobot101: i do things because they amuse me :)14:29
timeless_mbpi'd be likely to get a source disk just to have it...14:29
timeless_mbpbut yeah, most people wouldn't14:29
Robot101not everyone is so pointlessly contrary :P14:29
arfolleither way it doesnt bode well to have the first meego tablet not sharing their sources14:30
timeless_mbpanyway, complaining about wetab or something else is imo /slightly/ offtopic for #meego. making it ontopic involves figuring out how it relates to <meego.com>, which is probably in the form of the wiki page i suggest above14:30
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timeless_mbp… sure, complain once, but after that, move on, or be constructive on topic14:31
thiago_homewell, the wetab is a meego device, so it's on-topic14:31
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thiago_homebut I agree: move on14:31
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Stskeepsthiago_home: well, it's not compliant and doesn't mention meego anywhere ;)14:31
Stskeeps(using trademark)14:31
thiago_homebecause there is no compliancy for tablets yet14:32
timeless_mbpheh14:32
timeless_mbp"oops"14:32
Stskeepseven for meego core :)14:32
arfolldidn't realise you guys didn't care about people ripping off the meego project14:32
timeless_mbpbut seriously, is there a page that talks about how to set up a repo?14:32
thiago_homebut everyone knows it's a meego device14:32
timeless_mbparfoll: it's too early to worry about that14:32
timeless_mbp1. get your ducks in order14:33
arfolltimeless_mbp, it's an RPM repo they are loads of explanations on the web14:33
timeless_mbp2. worry about everyone else14:33
timeless_mbparfoll: terrible argument14:33
Stskeepsarfoll: well, this is up to LF really - we're just mere codrs14:33
Stskeeps:P14:33
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timeless_mbparfoll: by that logic, we shouldn't have packaging guidelines14:34
timeless_mbpor source repositories at all14:34
timeless_mbp… Stskeeps: please say we have packaging guidelines (or at least plans for...)14:34
arfolltimeless_mbp, well OBS makes RPM repos automtically14:34
thiago_homeso how do you configure OBS to produce the SRPMS and publish them?14:34
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Stskeepsit does automatically14:36
arfollthiago_home, it does so by default14:36
timeless_mbphttp://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_a_Repository_working_group14:36
timeless_mbpwhat's the status of that?14:36
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: Packaging/Guidelines on wiki/14:36
timeless_mbpStskeeps: oh good14:37
timeless_mbpright… so what's the status of that Proposal?14:41
timeless_mbpand in general, how does one find the status of an arbitrary proposal w/o asking 20 people?14:41
timeless_mbp(not using an issue tracker for such things is lame)14:41
thiago_homeask the contact person14:41
thiago_homethe wiki should have that14:42
timeless_mbphttp://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_a_Debian_Packaging_working_group has a status14:43
timeless_mbpthe other one does not14:43
TermanaN900Ask lbt the status, the wiki says he is one of the representatives of the proposal14:43
timeless_mbpi'd kinda like to change how we do proposals so that the wiki page is renamed to:14:47
timeless_mbp"Foo_working_group (Proposal)"14:47
timeless_mbp"Foo_working_group (Accepted)"14:47
timeless_mbp"Foo_working_group (Rejected)"14:47
timeless_mbpthat way i can easily figure out what a working group's status is w/o having to try to read randomly formatted proposals14:48
Robot101a wiki template could draw a consistent box on each page, and generate index pages of all proposals in certain statuses14:48
timeless_mbpof note:14:49
timeless_mbphttp://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_Community_Application_Support14:49
timeless_mbp#REDIRECT Community Application Support ...14:49
timeless_mbphttp://wiki.meego.com/Licensing_Proposal14:49
timeless_mbpso we aren't really consistent about where we stick 'Proposal'14:49
timeless_mbpbut at least one group just removed 'Proposal for' from the beginning when they were approved14:50
timeless_mbpit'd be easier on readers if it was removed from the end14:50
timeless_mbpCAS (Proposal) => CAS14:50
Robot101or that the pages didn't rename and had a box saying MeeGo Working Group, Status: Proposal | Active | Rejected14:51
timeless_mbpalso fine14:52
timeless_mbp(might as well support Discontinued/Retired/Disbanded however you want to call it)14:52
timeless_mbpif we do it your way, does someone have to make a proposal, or can you just do it?14:53
timeless_mbpand would you be willing to do the work14:53
* timeless_mbp hates wikis14:53
Robot101I'm not a big wiki gardener - w00t_ did some nice stuff on the collabora wiki though14:53
timeless_mbpthe other thing that would be nice is to include something which shows <Creation> and <Last non minor update>14:53
thiago_homeCompare And Swap?14:53
timeless_mbpe.g. http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Two_weeks_delay_proposal14:53
timeless_mbpCommunity Application Support14:53
timeless_mbpsorry, see 5 lines back14:54
timeless_mbp… i can't figure out when that proposal was made14:54
timeless_mbpand i shouldn't have to click a link to find out14:54
thiago_homeColumn Address Strobe?14:54
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sgo11hi, just trying meego liveusb on netbook. in "network" UI, I can not find wireless connection setup. how to enable it? do I need to install any drivers? if so, how? thanks.15:47
pupnik_what wireless card/chipset do you have?15:48
pupnik_you could check first to see if the card is recognized and an appropriate kernel module is loaded15:49
pupnik_lsmod15:49
nialais you netcard supported15:49
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sgo11sorry. I don't really know which wireless card I am using. how to open a terminal first? thanks.15:50
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sgo11saw it.15:51
nialaapplication-panel-->...15:51
sgo11this is the first time I try meego. I thought meego was QT based. but why did I see all gnome apps? gnome terminal, gedit etc.... weird.15:52
nialait's the 'begining' not reinvented the wheel15:55
pupnik_sgo11: i usually look at /var/log/syslog and look for something like15:56
pupnik_Oct 14 14:14:35 lenovy kernel: iwlagn: Intel(R) Wireless WiFi Link AGN driver for Linux, 1.3.27ks15:56
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sgo11any IRC client in meego? so that I can paste something here. thanks.16:00
nialapigdin or empathy16:00
rittksgo11: QT == QuickTime16:01
nialaQt  != QT16:02
rittkindeed16:03
rittkQuickTime based meego is a mith16:03
nialasgo11, soory I can't help you for your wifi16:03
sgo11Sorry, I mean Qt.16:04
smithnaI've been using zypper to update packages out of the daily repo -- will this match *release* package configurations?  ie: if a program is dropped for another, how do I reflect that change in my system?16:04
nialasgo11, may be if you post me your netbook :p16:04
sgo11niala, I saw empathy. thanks.16:04
sgo11:)16:04
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nialasgo11, try to submit a bug to http://bugs.meego.com/16:06
sgo11niala, thanks. I am learning how to use empathy IRC...16:08
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sgo11pupnik_, I don't have syslog file...16:11
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sgo11what is the default root password?16:12
nialameego16:12
sgo11yeah, works. :)16:12
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pupnik_sorry sgo11 - i'm too used to the debian way to give detailed help16:17
sgo11I am not sure how to use empathy IRC... I think I have broadcom wireless card.16:18
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sgo11pupnik_, no worries. I found this link: http://tips.tectip.info/how-to-set-up-the-broadcom-wifi-under-meego-1-0/16:19
nialasgo11, look at the meego forum16:19
nialahttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=23816:20
nialasgo11,16:20
sgo11niala, thanks a lot. Let me see..16:21
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sgo11yum or zypper ? which is preferred for meego?16:24
djszapipackagekit16:25
shadeslayerhehe16:26
shadeslayeri prefer apt-get along with alien :P16:26
niala./configure ; make; make install16:27
djszapiniala: that is not OK...16:27
djszapipython packages and so on...16:27
sgo11djszapi, how to launch packagekit?16:28
djszapiand I do not see the point to build from source if that is not needed.16:28
nialaah16:28
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djszapisgo11: install and run16:29
nialaput the tape and type 'run "program" '16:31
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sgo11djszapi, sorry, I don't get it. I just used zypper. I am not sure how to launch packagekit in meego.16:31
nialasorry it was for the amstrad cpc464 :)16:31
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nialasgo11, zypper i's nice, in fact for now yum or zypper is equal16:32
djszapisgo11: you do not get how to install and run an application ?16:33
sgo11niala, thanks.16:33
rittkpackagekit is very bad there. use zypper16:34
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CosmoHillsgo11: zypper16:36
CosmoHillyum will not be in Meego 1.216:37
sgo11djszapi, ok, just found zypper and yum are both supported in meego. I was just asking which is better supported. you answered packagekit. I thought packagekit was the recommended way. but I don't know how to launch it. that's all. anyway.16:37
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djszapizypper will be the solution later.16:38
djszapiyou can find yum for now, but it will not be the same in the future.16:38
djszapiso zypper is preferred, but I still prefer GUI on mobile phone...16:39
djszapiexactly, CosmoHill is right :)16:39
CosmoHillyay :)16:39
djszapibut I still do not understand why Meego architecture involves PackageKit.16:40
djszapiI thought meegon started writing an own qtcore/gui, whatever based content project to collect the backends, PackageKit is pure C.16:40
djszapiand I am not sure about dbus and glib dependencies whether they are needed. There are other IPC ways.16:41
smithnaso talking zypper...  Will "zypper --dist-upgrade" remove packages from ones system that are no longer part of the new distro?16:41
CosmoHillyou mean like "yum"?16:41
CosmoHillsmithna: i think the best place to check would be the manual page16:42
djszapismithna: this question is not related to Meego imo16:42
djszapiit is a general package management policy what to do with the installed packages if the updated repository/database does not contain that package with that name.16:43
djszapiI think it is more like zypper internal.16:43
smithnadjszapi: it's what meego uses...  And I didn't quite get the answer out of the man pages16:44
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Stskeepszypper, packagekit on top as an abstraction16:44
nialait's rpm16:45
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djszapirpm is just a lib, zypper decides what to use and how.16:45
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nialawhat is 'rpm -ivh' not the minimal ?16:46
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nialarpm is not the 'base' ?16:47
smithnabtw: what other distro uses zypper?  I hadn't heard of it until I started playing with meego16:47
djszapiopensuse ?16:47
djszapidunno16:47
nialaopensuse smithna16:47
RST38hLike... Suse? :)16:47
* smithna guesses he missed out playing with Suse16:47
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djszapiwhat have moblin used, pure rpm ?16:51
djszapiI am just trying to figure out why zypper is supported on Meego arch.16:51
nialaif I remember correctly moblin use yum16:52
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djszapihttp://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-August/004552.html16:53
CosmoHillmoblin used yum16:54
CosmoHillah niala beat me to the answer16:54
nialayep that's not frequent16:55
djszapiwhat was the decision base for zypper ?16:55
Stskeepsits fast, c++, yum is python and slow17:02
* RST38h once again wonders if Meego will break away from RedHat/SuSe habit of shipping multiple tools to do the same job17:02
TermanaIt's also not as good as yum at resolving conflicts17:03
TermanaRST38h, yum isn't shipped17:03
RST38hTermana: Good!17:04
RST38hTermana: I hope yast/yast2/yastN isn't shipped either?17:04
TermanaRST38h, hmm, I don't think so17:05
CosmoHillRST38h: we like to give you a choice :)17:05
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RST38hPackagekit isn't shipped either?17:05
sgo11djszapi, CosmoHill, Thanks for the answer. I was away.17:05
RST38hCosmoHill: I (personally) do not want choice. I want something that works and does not take toomuch resources17:06
sgo11opensuse is using zypper as command line tool and yast as GUI tool. I am using openSuSE and xchat now.17:06
CosmoHilldoesn't yast have a command line interface too?17:07
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djszapisgo11: yw :)17:07
sgo11CosmoHill, yast2 is GUI interface. yast is command line interface. zypper is command line tool with arguments. sorry about my poor english. I think yast doesn't accept arguments, it's a text interface wizard.17:08
RST38hWell, the first yast has been curses-based17:09
CosmoHillsgo11: you're english is fine17:09
RST38hor something that looked like curses anyway17:09
sgo11CosmoHill, ok. :)17:09
RST38hBut, in short, independently on how many sys management packages areout there, only one should be present in the OS17:10
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RST38hIf multiple such tools are present, your OS becomes...well...a RedHat17:10
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RST38h(and yes, I especially love it how you can kill yum in Centos by upgrading Python :))17:11
CosmoHillI think the main reason for keeping yum was because it was part of mobin so people are used to it17:11
CosmoHillyou want change but if you do to much as once you just end up with a lot of confused faces17:11
CosmoHillah...crap17:12
CosmoHillthat python upgrade I did in CentOS might explain some of the errors I'm having17:12
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berndhspackagekit doesn't work very well if your cases is the least bit a-typical17:15
rittkhmm...cann't build the broadcom wifi driver on meego 1.1.8017:21
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rittkpatches for >2.6.33 were needed17:32
rittkstupid linus17:32
rittkhate his `break everything in every minor version` policy17:35
nialaget your own kernel17:36
Termananiala, lol17:37
nialaif your wifi is recognized in netx kernel17:38
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nialaTermana, yes my sentence was confusing  :)17:40
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smithnaI'm trying to run meego-headset-* (music,video,pictures) with the ivi base (those packages have been added to the repo for ivi) -- but the best I can get is a black screen that is off-centered (for picture/video).  Music version just segfaults.  I didn't see any bugs for this, so I am guessing I messed something up18:01
smithnasee here for example output (all apps give the same types of errors): http://pastebin.com/pgdt0sns18:03
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thiago_homesounds like installation problem18:19
thiago_homeit's not finding the theme files18:19
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Stskeepssmithna: got a gdb backtrace of the problem?18:24
Stskeepsor .xsession-errors output18:24
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smithnaStskeeps: I can get both18:29
* smithna runs out to car to get info18:29
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* thiago_home ponders on the words "debugging one's car"18:31
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Stskeepsthiago_home: qt everywhere18:32
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thiago_homeyeah18:35
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* thiago_home puts on his list to ask for a "device" to debug on now18:36
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thiago_homecan we run them on BMWs? Or Mercedes?18:36
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Stskeepsthiago_home: i think bmw was one of the genivi members but i might be wrohng18:38
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thiago_homeI think dirk mentioned the series 7 having meego soon during his presentation at DD-MUC18:40
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CosmoHills/noob/nom/18:48
lcuk:D CosmoHill18:49
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CosmoHillah ha18:50
CosmoHillthe answer was so obvious I missed it >.<18:50
lcukCosmoHill, I was asking for wine advice o_O18:51
CosmoHillyou should have come over last night, you could have asked my parents wine dealer18:51
lcukheh18:51
* lcuk keeps forgetting, where in country are you?18:51
lcuktracy and luke and jacob had a go of my helicopter last night.18:51
RST38his it still in one piece?18:52
lcukjacob managed to fly it around the house and landed it safely in the lounge (assisted flight..)18:52
lcukluke looked like a seasoned pro, flying it around the kitchen properly, his balancing skills are amazing :)18:52
CosmoHillare THEY still in one piece?18:52
lcukand tracy floored the accelerometer, sent it flying into the ceiling, then crash landed it in the sink18:52
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lcukerr18:53
lcukaccerator *18:53
* lcuk was just talking about accelerometers lol18:53
lcukRST38h, surprisingly robust18:53
RST38hours is still flying too I think18:54
lcukas soon as I get the battery for my bigger oneI will feel better18:54
lcukit flies much more effectively :)18:54
smithnaOk, here we go...  http://pastebin.org/25659118:56
smithnabtw: hfdialer list meegotouchcp-connman-libconnman-qt as a dependancy, but it's not in core or ivi repos18:57
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* smithna sees problem with hfdialer it should be meegotouchcp-connman-ivi-libconnman-qt, not meegotouchcp-connman-libconnman-qt19:00
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* smithna wonders if everyone ran off...19:40
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thiago_homeyep, we did19:45
* lcuk went for Sunday Roast19:45
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* CosmoHill has been fighting his srand19:51
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CosmoHillit's not random enough19:53
lcukhmm CosmoHill20:02
lcukhow do you know?20:02
CosmoHillcos I can see patterns20:02
lcukin what data set?  how are you requesting the values and how are you getting to see the patterns?20:03
CosmoHillI'm using time(NULL) as the initial seed but as I'm in a loop it doesn't change for X turns20:03
* lcuk used to display random data on a 3d plot and saw clusters with certain homebrew algorithms20:03
lcukwell you should not be seeding at every iteration20:04
RST38htime() isn't a good seed to begin with20:04
lcukits reasonable for a one off init for most things20:05
RST38hGo with the clock() or some combination of both20:05
lcukbut using it multiple times per second is where the problem is coming20:05
BManojlovicuse microphone as input of random data :)20:05
RST38hyea, it is a seed, you are not supposed to use it all the time20:05
RST38hMicrophone? 50Hz.20:05
RST38h60Hz if you are on the other side of the pond20:06
berndhsuse twitter public timeline to get noise20:06
lcukor -3hz if you are in the pond.20:06
BManojloviceurope, so yes :)20:06
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RST38hx86 has a hardware random number source =)20:07
CosmoHillhuh, why didn't I think of only seeding once20:09
RST38hBecause you didn't care to read Wiki on the subject? =)20:09
lcukRST38h, is that the FDIV?20:09
RST38hlcuk: Nah, a moment20:10
lcukCosmoHill, seeding is something you do only once :P20:10
CosmoHillthanks very much you two :)20:10
CosmoHillI think now would be a good time for some more tea20:10
lcukint random(){ return 4; } ( http://xkcd.com/221/ )20:12
CosmoHillhahahhaha20:12
CosmoHillthat would be one way to cause an infinite loop in my program20:12
lcuk:)20:13
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CosmoHillthe program itself is pretty simple, create a random string until it matches a defined one20:14
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thiago_homesounds like my random sort algo20:15
lcukwouldnt strdup() be more efficient?20:15
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CosmoHilloh bugger, something else has broken now20:15
thiago_homehow long is your string?20:15
CosmoHillthe final one will be 28 characters20:15
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thiago_homenow calculate how many operations are required to compute that string20:16
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CosmoHillat the moment it finds my 3 char one is 74090 attempts. It's found it in that many attempts the last 4 goes20:17
lcukthere is something bigger wrong20:17
thiago_homethat exact number?20:18
lcuk:P20:18
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CosmoHillyes20:18
lcukalso, statistically, how often are you rechecking the same characters?20:18
CosmoHill(it prints out the attempts at the end)20:18
thiago_homethat's extremely unlikely with real random20:18
thiago_homeso it's more likely you're not using the random functions correctly20:18
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CosmoHillhmm20:18
thiago_homehow are you composing the characters? full ASCII set? full 8-bit set? or just the alpha?20:19
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CosmoHillpart of ASCII20:19
CosmoHillI kinda want help but not to much since it's my assignment20:20
lcukCosmoHill, guidance and support vs outright copy paste ;)20:20
CosmoHillpretty much20:20
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lcukdo we get tshirts at the end of this?20:22
lcuk"we helped cosmohill pass his degree"20:22
thiago_homeare you doing character-by-character detection, or full string?20:22
CosmoHillcharacter by character20:22
thiago_homeok, then at least that's doable20:22
CosmoHillthe main / only problem at the moment is that the random numbers are not random at all20:23
CosmoHillI've gotten idental output the last 10 times20:23
thiago_homesounds like your seeding isn't very good20:24
CosmoHillhmmm20:25
RST38hlcuk: Sorry, it is actually part of the i80802 FWHub20:25
sgo11will broadcom driver and mp3 be supported by default in the future release of Meego?20:25
lcukok CosmoHill forget the bigger picture, run just your core single character box and check its outputs.   once you know that works and gives random values without reseeding itself (if its a class, use the constructor to do seeding, then just step the randomness beyond)20:25
RST38hlcuk: Later chipset versions do not include it20:25
lcukRST38h, but they have TPM chip which afaik offers a similar api for randomness20:25
CosmoHillmy mac is being random (in a good way) but the powerful computer isn't20:25
lcukCosmoHill, chances are your seed function is returning different data on thedifferent arches20:26
RST38hlcuk: Not familiar with the TPM, but did have to look at the 80802 datasheet a short while ago20:26
CosmoHillah20:26
thiago_homesgo11: MP3, no20:26
thiago_homesgo11: broadcom, ask broadcom20:26
thiago_homeif they get the drivers in the Linux kernel, under the GPL license, then it's sure20:27
sgo11thiago_home, why not mp3? most of people have to install mp3 codec manually anyway. that is hard for general user. actually, it's kinda impossible for general user.20:28
thiago_homemaybe, but that's life20:28
sgo11for broadcom driver, it's extremely hard.20:28
thiago_homeunfortunately, the companies behind MP3 drive a hard bargain20:28
sgo11meego decides to use qt. Will meego change all the current applications? I see most of them are gnome/GTK apps. Banshee (Amarok), GnomeTerminal(konsole), GnomeEye(gwenview), gedit(kwrite), evolution PIM (kontact) etc...20:29
thiago_homesgo11: only if necessary20:30
thiago_homethere's no need to drop applications that work fine20:30
CosmoHilllcuk: new problem, I need to let my mac cool down between tests :o20:30
sgo11ok. :)20:30
sergeyleHi everyone. I guess I'm not original, but the http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux wiki page is not as comprehensive as it used to be. Speaking more specifically, what's the image that I have to download if I want to try the chroot option?20:30
sergeyleThanks in advance20:31
thiago_homesgo11: also note that device vendors might provide the MP3 codec20:31
thiago_homeand they most surely will make sure MeeGo works with their hardware20:31
lcukCosmoHill, lol20:31
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sgo11for mp3 and broadcom driver, at least, meego should have them in the repo. so people can zypper or yum install it. that is how ubunut/opensuse handle it. current installation process for meego is really impossible for general users.20:32
CosmoHillactually I don't turns out textmate was going nuts trying to display all the output20:32
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thiago_homesgo11: the problem of redistribution20:32
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sgo11btw, kwrite is much better than gedit.20:33
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sgo11thiago_home, how ubuntu/opensuse and other distributions have those drivers/codec in their repo? why can't meego put them in the repo?20:34
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lcukCosmoHill, I once brought down the entire house wifi20:35
thiago_homesgo11: I don't think they do20:35
lcukbecause I was logging the output of the graphics routines20:35
CosmoHillgo on20:35
CosmoHillah, over ssh?20:35
lcukcomplete heavy description of every single graphical operation20:35
lcukyeah20:35
thiago_homethere's a reason why PLF recompiles all media applications in Mandriva20:35
thiago_homeI don't know about other distros, I don't use them20:35
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CosmoHilllcuk: you know that XKCD comic, I'm tempted to put that in my code now20:37
sgo11thiago_home, ok, at least, in other distributions, one click can install the driver or codec. currently for meego, i have to install many/many packages manually for broadcom driver and register an useless account for mp3 codec... ^_^20:37
lcukblol CosmoHill20:37
lcuk-b20:37
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CosmoHillmaybe clock() returns the same value on the linux server because it's much more powerful and under little load20:43
sergeyleGuys, can any of you help?20:45
CosmoHillI'll give you a provision yes with the chance of it changing to a no20:46
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lcuksergeyle, yes, those instructions changed from being reasonably simplistic download this image, bish bash bosh20:47
lcukto being more complex20:47
lcukthe original will work still (theres a link to it)20:47
lcukbut the image software is now slightly out of date and would require linking to different repositories to do anything complex20:48
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sergeylelcuk, thanks. What if I want to do it the right way? :)20:48
* CosmoHill gives cookies to lcuk, RST38h and thiago_home 20:48
lcuksergeyle, then follow the more complex instrucitons20:48
lcukinstructions20:48
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lcukand see how technical it can be20:48
nasadid anyone look at the bt and xsession-errors posted earlier20:49
lcuknasa, not sure20:50
sergeylelcuk, do I need to fetch images from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/ to get it running?20:50
lcuksergeyle, you need to follow the instructions20:50
lcukthe last time I looked on that page early last week it was the simple instructions, when I peeked again it looked rather overwhelming to me :$20:51
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sergeyleThe instructions doesn't seem to work.20:52
sergeyleDo you know where do I get the ia32 toolchain from?20:53
sergeyleAnd the mad-admin doen't seem to have meego-core-ia32 as a predefined target20:53
sergeyle(though I managed to fetch the correct sysroot)20:54
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FIReunI've got an atom d525 + ION2 system coming, its a nettop -- is there any advantage of running meego vs ubuntu ?22:10
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djszapiwhat is your purpose ?22:13
FIReunto exist22:14
FIReun(:22:14
FIReunits a net top, media watching, some desktop publishing (office)22:14
FIReunbut I assume because of libraries, meego doesnt support just any old linux app22:15
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FIReunI dont really expect games to work, but would like to be pleasantly suprised22:16
djszapiI would give it a try to meego if you have got time and you will see :)22:16
FIReunok, I'll prolly toss it on a flash drive and give it a run22:16
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CosmoHillFIReun: meego doesn't currently support Nvidia graphics chips22:17
FIReunCosmoHill: well thats a deal breaker then22:17
djszapinot, but works in a way.22:18
thiago_homeall it takes is someone make it work22:18
FIReunof course22:20
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FIReunwell thanks for the info22:20
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Myrtti*nnnggghhh*23:14
ScottishDuck( ・ิз・ิ)23:14
lcukMyrtti, still heavily into embroidery?  did you ever find a pattern designer?23:18
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Myrttilcuk: found one for Android...23:29
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