IRC log of #meego for Saturday, 2010-10-02

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* thiago_home doesn't speak Finnish00:06
CosmoHillI may have made a mistake / bad assumption00:07
thiago_homeI do speak Norwegian (kinda)00:08
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kyb3Rspeaks Finnish00:09
kyb3R'auki' is on00:09
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CosmoHillbuild.on.meego.com00:10
CosmoHillit still works00:10
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CosmoHillthiago_home: odd question, what country are you in and where are you from?00:18
thiago_homeNorway, Brazil00:18
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CosmoHillfor some reason I thought you were Finnish and in Finland00:19
pupnikanybody know if meego-in-vm (vmware, qemu) is being worked-on?00:19
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* w00t_ is in finland, but definitely not from finland00:19
pupnikw00t_: do you find the seasons/climate difficult to adopt-to?00:20
pupnikadapt00:20
w00t_pupnik: you asked that earlier, did you read http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_QEMU when I linked you to it?00:20
w00t_pupnik: I don't live here permanently, I'm just here for a month for work00:21
pupniki missed it00:21
pupnikty.  who expects you to get anything done in your first month somewhere anyway00:21
pupnikjk00:21
w00t_hehe00:22
pupniksomething feels wrong up there, seriously.00:25
w00t_hm?00:25
pupnikstrange sun pattern00:25
w00t_it's enjoyable00:26
Alison_ChaikenOn x86_64, I have success running MeeGo under qemu, but is there any 64-bit version of MeeGo SDK?00:26
wmaronenot yet00:26
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pupniknice job till- and bspencer - i had missed that qemu page00:27
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CosmoHillI think meego is only 32bit atm00:29
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Alison_ChaikenMeeGo iso runs fine on x86_64 under Fedora 13, but SDK version appears not to exist.   Fedora 13 version of Qt lacks docs, but that may be Fedora's fault.00:56
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CosmoHillAlison_Chaiken: would the Qt docs be in an additional RPM which isn't installed by default?01:09
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Alison_ChaikenHey CosmoHill, indeed there is a qt-doc.noarch package.    Given that the package supports the built-in Qt help, it should really be part of the Qt install.01:13
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CosmoHillonly if you want it01:21
CosmoHillsome people might prefer to look things up online01:21
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sofarAlison_Chaiken: there's no planned 64bit version of MeeGo, hence there won't be a 64-bit SDK01:29
CosmoHillis the Atom 32 or 64bit?01:30
sofardepends01:30
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sofarsome atoms are 32bit only01:30
ScottishDuckall dual core atoms are 64 bit01:31
CosmoHillAlso won't MeeGo have to be 64bit at some point otherwise it would brake in 2036 :p01:31
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ScottishDuckjust skip to 128 bit01:31
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CosmoHillI like the way that computers are all 64bit now but game consoles are probably 256 or 512bit01:32
ScottishDucknot really01:32
ScottishDuckwhen they talked about bits with consoles it was always the GPU01:33
ScottishDuckI think01:33
CosmoHillI think the PS3 is 128bit01:33
ScottishDuckIt's SPARC6401:33
sofaradding more bits in the cpu registers won't affect the 2038 date issue01:33
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CosmoHilla 64bit int is much bigger than a 32bit int so it will affect it01:34
sofarhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Atom_microprocessors01:34
CosmoHillScottishDuck: no, it's an IBM Cell processor01:34
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sofarCosmoHill: you can safely implement 64bit integers on a 32bit processor just fine01:34
CosmoHillooo01:34
ScottishDuckit's a derivative of POWER401:35
CosmoHilldo you have a wikipedia tab open? cos I do01:35
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ScottishDuckyerp01:36
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CosmoHillsofar: btw do you have a bootchart.jar file that works on mac?01:44
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sofarwhy would I? I rewrote bootchart from scratch so you don't need that anymore01:48
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CosmoHillthe thing that makes the nice chart for you?01:49
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sofaryup01:49
sofarmade a version for meego01:49
sofarsingle program implementation01:49
sofarfire & forget, writes out an SVG to /var/log once done01:49
CosmoHillvery nice01:50
sofarembedded in the svg markup is the data, so you can extract real numbers from it01:50
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CosmoHillso I need to install libsvg and that on my LFS build to get a nice bootchart01:51
sofarno01:51
sofarit doesn't need librsvg01:51
CosmoHillawesome01:51
sofarit writes a valid SVG file without the need for the library01:51
sofarall it needs is libc01:51
sofarit does need the kernel patch meego has01:52
sofaractually01:52
CosmoHillwhere is the source or shall I just download the bootchart.src.rpm file?01:52
sofaron a meego box ?01:52
CosmoHillnope01:52
sofarsource is on gitorious01:52
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sofarsee http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-developer-tools/bootchart for urls01:53
CosmoHillthank you01:53
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sofarthe README tells you which kernel config options need to be enabled01:54
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CosmoHillI'll use this from now on instead of the old bootchart01:57
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CosmoHillsofar: btw what timezone are you in?02:03
sofarUS west coast (-8)02:04
CosmoHillso it;'s about 3pm for you?02:05
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CosmoHilllbt: wow, you have 3 posts on the forum, that's almost as little as me02:12
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CosmoHillyay, now I have three posts02:17
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CosmoHillnight night02:22
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__key__umm, anyone know what time it is?03:48
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seiflotfyhey guys08:00
seiflotfyif i have the day1 stuff installed natively08:00
seiflotfycan i update from a repository to the current stuff08:01
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kimitakeseiflotfy: I think there is no installer for the latest pkg, so need to upgrade from v1.0 pkg (day1 stuff)08:58
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Stskeepshttp://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/irc/data/irssistats.sep.html <- new irc stats10:08
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GirlZillaHi all!12:31
GirlZillaStupids questions incoming ...12:32
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GirlZillafirst : do I have to make my own meego netbook built from scratch in order to change zone transition effects & speed ? I would prefer a single slide instead of zoom out ->slide-> zoom in while pressingAlt+Tab12:34
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GirlZillaseconc stupid question : I"ve added maximize and restore buttons on title bars with gnone-config in metacity options but any maximized windows ...12:36
GirlZilla... (say, terminal) will lost automatic refresh content12:36
GirlZillaI mean if I type some text in the maximized terminal window, it won"t show up until I'm playing with Meego toolbar or switching to another zone...12:38
GirlZillaany idea ?12:38
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Sadaathereis meego 1.1 going to release for n90013:02
Stskeepsyes, we're on a fixed release schedule13:03
Sadaatherestskeeps: YAY would that be offical?13:04
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Sadaatherestskeeps: YAY would that be offical?13:09
Stskeepsit might not be the best product but its the meego platform as is13:09
Stskeepsand official from meego.com, not a nokia product13:09
Stskeepsso depending on your perspective you might be disappointed13:09
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Sadaatherestskeeps: YAY would that be offical?13:10
Stskeeps2:06] <Stskeeps> it might not be the best product but its the meego  platform as is13:11
Stskeeps[12:06] <Stskeeps> and official from meego.com, not a nokia product13:11
Stskeeps[12:06] <Stskeeps> so depending on your perspective you might be  disappointed13:11
Sadaathereok and is it gonna be fully functional?13:12
Stskeepsno, things take time13:12
Stskeepsbut we have call audio, sms for instance13:12
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Stskeepsand fully functional is such a difficult term13:13
Sadaatheredevelopers r working to make it max functional rite?13:13
Stskeepsyes, of course13:14
Stskeepsthe problem is just what functional means :)13:14
Stskeepswhat does it mean to you?13:14
MegatomteDoes anyone know when the first official meego-based phone is coming?13:16
Megatomte>_>13:16
Sadaatherefor me ... i want basic phone work like calls n sms, meego apps shd work perfect , camera fully working , internet fully working with all technologies like edge ,wifi etc13:16
StskeepsSadaathere: ok, that should be possible eventually13:16
Stskeepsbut you'll get first taste of it in 1.113:17
Stskeepsthe work continues in 1.213:17
thiago_homeMegatomte: no one will tell you when their product ships until it ships13:17
Sadaathereyea i wanna taste meego13:17
MegatomteI s'pose13:17
Sadaathererumors say its gonna b N913:18
thiago_homeSadaathere: SD cards usually don't taste very good13:18
MegatomteAre there any under active development, known that is13:18
MegatomteI read about aavamobile yesterday, seemed interesting13:18
thiago_homeSadaathere: rumours are just that, rumours: we don't know if that is true or not13:18
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Sadaatherethats y i said rumor lol13:18
TSCHAKeee2guys asking questions, the engineers are always the last to know about marketing decisions13:18
Megatomte.D13:19
Sadaatherecan we port it to emmc thiago?13:19
thiago_homeport what?13:19
thiago_homeand what emmc?13:19
Sadaatheremeego to n900 internal memory13:19
thiago_homeyes13:19
ChildOfGodGuys, I have ofono-0.31 on my meego netbook ux. It detects my modem as well. I have connman 0.61 but it does not show the modem. I assume there is some disconnect between connman and ofono here. Can someone help me wth this please?13:20
thiago_homedepends on how much work you're willing to put into making it work.13:20
ChildOfGodIts a 3g device. Huawei ec1261.13:20
thiago_homeChildOfGod: you want to make calls?13:20
ChildOfGodno13:20
ChildOfGodjust connect to internet13:20
thiago_homethen ofono shouldn't have anything to do with it13:20
ChildOfGodmost importantly i need to see it in carrick panel. i want users to be able to interactt13:20
ChildOfGodthiago_home: but i thought ofono was suposed to take care of 3g modems13:21
thiago_homeofono is supposed to do telephony13:21
ChildOfGodok. So is there a way I can get the 3g modem to show in connman/carrick panel?13:22
ChildOfGod(I thought ofono and connman are compatible via dbus api and connman show 3g devices picked up from ofono)13:22
Sadaatherethiago_home : porting meego to internall memory will make it fast or not on n900?13:22
thiago_homeSadaathere: I don't know13:22
thiago_homeSadaathere: but the internal memory is far too small on the N900 for useful things.13:23
ChildOfGodthiago_home: So does connman have a separate 3g detection module of its own?13:23
thiago_homeChildOfGod: the 3G modem should appear as a normal USB modem13:23
ChildOfGodyes it does.13:23
thiago_homethen that's all connman should need13:23
Sadaatherei mean its 32gb internal memory13:23
thiago_homeSadaathere: I thougth you meant the 256 MB internal NAND memory13:24
Sadaatherelol nt dat13:24
StskeepsSadaathere: probablyh for 1.213:24
thiago_homeyeah, running on the internal memory should be faster than from the SD card13:24
ChildOfGodthiago_home: but it does not. How do I debug this? I use d-feet to see the interfaces as well, and I start connman in debug mode13:24
ChildOfGodbut it doesnt detect13:24
Sadaathereso its gonna be laggy like nitdroid13:25
Sadaathereif installed on sd cards13:25
thiago_homenot necessarily13:26
thiago_homefaster / slower are relative terms, as you may have learned in grammar classes :-)13:26
Sadaatheresuppose i get class 10 sd card would dat effect its speed?13:27
stephgmorning chaps13:27
Sadaatherethiago_home: suppose i get class 10 sd card would dat effect its speed?13:28
thiago_homeif you get a faster card, it will be faster13:28
ChildOfGodthiago_home: Is there a specific plugin for connman that detects 3g devices?13:28
thiago_homewhether that's fast enough, yout ell us13:28
thiago_homeChildOfGod: no idea. I've never tried to debug it.13:28
ChildOfGodok.13:29
Sadaatherei guess 1.1 meego for n900 is present in meego repository13:29
thiago_homeyes it is13:29
Sadaatherey they didnt show on release page? is it not ready yet ?13:30
thiago_homeit's not released yet13:30
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Sadaathererelease date is 15 to 20 oct13:32
* thiago_home looks at the calendar13:32
thiago_homeno, we're not oct 15 to 20 yet :-)13:32
Sadaatherei mean that's wat they said on release page for meego 1.113:33
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pexiare there any (experimental) wrt for 1.113:36
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thiago_homeyes13:41
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pexiahh. nice13:46
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piotrhi14:59
theplichi14:59
stephghi14:59
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lbt'lo15:11
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RST38h<yawn>15:14
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stephgThrowing this one out there should anyone know15:26
stephgI've been told that there may be a screengrab/video recording app available. Does anyone know if there is or what it's name is?15:26
stephgideally want to record videos of the UI for buuuuuuuugs15:26
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smithnastephg: Such an app would be very useful -- hope you find it15:36
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stephgyarp as do I15:36
stephg:)15:36
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aimeeokay so what's this all about then?15:52
Guest42541confused15:53
aimeewho is here?15:53
Guest42541hello lbt15:53
lbthey  :)15:53
aimeehello lbt! :)15:54
lbtso, welcome to irc and #meego15:54
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aimeesarah is Guest 42541 ;)15:54
lbthi aimee15:54
aimeewe are in the discovery centre trying to figure out this irc thing! ;)15:54
Guest42541lbt - do I want to buy some amazon ec2?15:54
* lbt is confused ... who is aimee ? mark ?15:54
aimeejust a friend :)15:54
aimeemark is also sitting right next to us.15:55
* lbt waves15:55
aimeehow many people are in this chat room?15:55
Guest42541aimee is clever15:55
lbthundreds15:55
aimeeactually sarah found this webchat site.15:55
Guest42541I was telling you about aimee yesterday15:55
lbtthis is the meego area15:55
lbtah, that's aimee... good to meet you15:55
aimeei tried making sarah do it through Smuxi client but it wouldn't let us cos we're at the library.15:55
lbt*nod*15:55
aimeegood to meet you too lbt ... :)15:55
aimeewhat does lbt actually stand for?15:56
Guest42541so amazon ec2??15:56
lbtlittle blue thing....15:56
aimeeawwwww!15:56
aimeefunny, my husband is littlebluefish on twitter! :D15:56
Guest42541tell us the story15:56
* lbt always wanted a "little ping thing" turntable....15:56
lbthttp://www.turntable-power-supply.com/turntables_fitting/pink_triangle_lpt_fitting.htm15:57
lbtanyhoo....15:57
lbtmrs "work work work".... EC215:57
aimeeoh, awesome!! is it a make your own record player?15:57
Guest42541it's too exciting!!!15:58
Guest42541how do I change my id?15:58
aimeemaybe there was already someone else called sarah.15:58
lbttype /nick name15:58
aimeesince it didn't mind me being called aimee.15:58
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* lbt rofl15:59
stephgheh15:59
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Guest78767too hard :(16:00
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stephgthat's better16:00
aimeeyeahhh!!16:00
lbt\o/16:00
sarahjonesgot there16:00
sarahjonesyey!!16:00
aimeeyay! works!!16:00
aimeei love how IRC has been around since the internet began and is still used today!16:00
lbtOK ... so we can chat in here or wander off if need be16:00
* lbt practically lives on it now... we use it for our distributed teams16:01
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lbtthis is the community channel for meego though... so maybe we should wander off... #civicrm ?16:02
lbtah16:02
lbtmaybe not16:02
lbtmmm #civic_in_winchester16:02
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* Aard is confused16:05
lbtAard: couple of friends ... we want to setup a CRM for a local charity16:06
Aardcrm?16:06
lbtCustomer Relationship Management16:07
lbtbugzilla for businesses16:07
Aardbased on meego? ;)16:07
Stskeepsheh, 'CRM UX' ;p16:08
lbtAard: no it's a general concept16:09
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stephgStkeeps: oh god can you imagine the pain?16:11
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* Stskeeps is tired after 5 hours worth of shopping16:17
w00t_Stskeeps: retail therapy to recover from fennec?16:17
w00t_:P16:17
Stskeepsa tad16:17
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GAN9005 hours of shopping? Yeesh16:33
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djszapiis there a graphical package manager service on Meego ?16:51
djszapiPackageKit may be ?16:51
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djszapiBetter question: Is there a package list, services that I can access on MeeGo to ? (pkg repository and so on)16:54
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theplicdjszapi: well there isnt a graphical one16:58
theplicbut you can still look at a list16:58
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djszapitheplic: where is there a list ?17:07
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Stskeepsone marketing discussion mail done.. now on to the ARM one17:10
theplicdjszapi: zypper pa17:11
theplicyou can direct it to a file and then search what you are looking for17:11
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djszapitheplic: I am sorry but I do not have a meego mobile now, can you paste me that output file ?17:15
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theplicdjszapi: what are you using atm?17:16
theplicdoes meego have a pastebin?17:17
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djszapitheplic: pastie.org -> Currently just PC with no MeeGo capability.17:18
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theplicdjszapi: lol pastie.org couldnt hold all that data.17:21
theplichere: http://pastebin.com/SYmTgfCs17:21
djszapilawl17:21
djszapiPackageKit is graphical package manager in fact.17:22
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theplicdjszapi: hmm i donno how to execute that17:24
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CosmoHillsofar: http://black-flag.co.uk/files/lfs/bootchart-20101002-1525.svg :) thanks a lot17:45
CosmoHillonly problem I have is that browers don't understand "width=100%"17:46
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sofaryup17:46
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sofarI need to pre-calc the width/height17:47
sofarand put that in instead17:47
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Stskeepssofar: what do you use to view your bootcharts?17:47
sofarinkscape, or a browser17:47
Stskeepsk17:47
Stskeepsfirefox i've had issues with, seems not to scroll it17:48
CosmoHillStskeeps: yes I just had that issue17:48
sofarit varies17:48
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sofarit scrolls with the version I have at home17:48
CosmoHillyou need to open the .svg file and edit the width and height mangually17:48
CosmoHillline 3 i think17:48
CosmoHillStskeeps: did the one I linked to have scroll bars17:49
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Stskeepsyes17:50
CosmoHillyou see line three in the source code. I edited that by hand17:50
Stskeeps:nod:17:50
CosmoHillabout 100 pixels per second for width17:51
Stskeepssofar: out of curiousity, why ~30 seconds of bootchart only?17:51
Stskeepsi know there's a command line setting but it's a bit nasty when it's init=/sbin/init17:51
Stskeepser, init=17:51
CosmoHillinit=/sbin/bootchartd ?17:51
Stskeepsyes, that's what i meant :P17:52
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CosmoHillnow I need to work out how to read it17:54
Bostikhm, geeqie (ex-gqview) seems to show .svg nicely enough17:55
sarahjoneshi lbt17:56
CosmoHillI think I managed to log in before LFS had finished booting18:00
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lbthi sarahjones18:31
sarahjonesyou're back!!18:32
lbtwas busy - didn't notice the msg :)18:32
sarahjoneshow do you get to the bit where we were before??18:32
sarahjonesbusy bee18:33
Cquadhello18:33
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CquadIs there someone who know how I can use Meego as en entry in grub ?18:34
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newbiemmchi18:52
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newbiemmccan somebody tell me, what to do next? i have done the steps for windows to install meego on mmc, but it won't boot meego. maybe that's because of the boot priority of the n900?!18:55
newbiemmci tried it to fix it using the guide on the meego.com page, but there only steps for linux, right? so how to change the priority with windows?18:56
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guestohi, what does the "l" in armv7l mean?19:00
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CosmoHillCquad: the same way as any other distro with an initrd file19:27
CosmoHillCquad: Grub or Grub2?19:27
CosmoHillfor grub2 this should help you: http://black-flag.co.uk/wordpress/2010/04/23/red-hat-enterprise-linux-6-beta-grub-2/19:27
thiago_homeguesto: little19:29
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guestoendian?19:46
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__key__hrmm21:02
__key__!time21:03
__key__anyone have the time ?21:03
leinirWell, here it's 19.05, but elsewhere it is something else ;)21:05
__key__great!21:05
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leinir...21:06
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o sofar_21:19
*** sofar_ sets mode: -b *!*__key__@*21:20
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sofarnow if only I understood how the ban regex syntax works21:25
dm8tbrnickname!ident@hostname21:27
sofarit doesn't help that pidgin doesn't know how to ban21:27
sofarand I'm too lazy to run more than 1 IM/IRC/... client21:28
sofarat work I'm online on 8 protocols, 5 at home21:28
dm8tbr/mode +b foo!bar@baz21:28
dm8tbrthat should always work21:28
sofaroh21:28
sofarcool21:28
Surfait has nothing to do with regex actually :)21:28
sofarwell syntax21:28
dm8tbrfreenode also has a few special case things21:29
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sofarI should test that on someone21:29
sofarwho can I ban for a secon? :)21:29
dm8tbre.g. if you don't want to ban him but just prevent him to speak you'd use +q instead21:29
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*** dm8tbr_ was kicked by sofar (dm8tbr_)21:30
sofarcan you get back?21:31
sofar:)21:31
dm8tbrnope21:31
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sofarthanks21:31
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dm8tbrnot try that with +q21:31
sofarok21:31
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dm8tbr18:32:01-!- #meego Cannot send to channel21:32
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sofaris that permanent tho?21:32
dm8tbryes, as long as that person does not evade it by changing some part21:32
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dm8tbrif you ever think you need expiry management you can start looking into 'eir' that's a management bot21:33
dm8tbr_test - passed21:33
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sofarthanks21:33
dm8tbralso the freenode webpage is a valuable resource21:34
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smithnaSo, I've been following the IVI development on my carpc, and I think I must have messed something up as I've been updating packages.  For one, I lost some of the icons on the ivihome (the home in the upper left for example).  Any idea what could cause that?22:39
Stskeepsyou might have to follow the package group too22:39
smithnaI looked at the FAQ, but nothing there applied.  And I didn't see any bug reports on it...22:40
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smithnapackage group?22:40
* smithna isn't sure what "package group" refers too...22:41
Stskeepsin the .ks, the things starting with @22:41
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smithnaI am going to hate myself for having to say this.... I'm not familar with .ks -- I've been updating individual packages from the trunk repo22:46
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StskeepsJaffa: for good measure, email is taken out cos it's simply too buggy22:50
Stskeepsit isn't getting deleted, just not included in 1.1, source is out there.22:50
TSCHAKeee2Stskeeps: is modest still being used?22:51
StskeepsTSCHAKeee2: i sure as hell hope not22:51
TSCHAKeee2heheheh22:51
TSCHAKeee2i don't know a single person in the world22:51
TSCHAKeee2that likes it22:51
Stskeepsi had a mail friggen disappearing from my mail view the other day for no good reason22:51
Stskeepshad to go to my gmail to actually find it22:51
TSCHAKeee2modest takes 3 minutes22:52
TSCHAKeee2to start up on my n90022:52
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TSCHAKeee2between each keypress between the panes22:52
TSCHAKeee2pegging the CPU, each time22:53
Stskeeps:nod:22:53
GAN900Who'd've thought they could top osso-email in uselessness.22:54
Stskeepsi liked osso-email22:54
StskeepsJaffa: what's important to realise is that it's a platform, not a end-user target that's getting released in october. fairly easy to build and even take parts of 1.2 development in to provide something usable22:55
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smithna.ks = "kick start"22:58
Stskeepsyes22:58
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TSCHAKeee2meego may just need to be billed as a platform23:04
Stskeepsi think the personality split is hurting way too much23:04
TSCHAKeee2yes23:05
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TSCHAKeee2when i saw this platform, i immediately understood that this was something for interested vendors to extend23:05
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smithnahmm...  That's always been a question I wanted too ask (just not sure where too).  Is Meego a distro for everyone or for device builders?  An example: will IVI be useful to carpc hobbiest or is it aimed at car makers?23:09
TSCHAKeee2smithna: right now, it's useful for people willing to put in the elbow grease23:09
Stskeepsit's for everyone wanting to build things using it23:09
TSCHAKeee2hackers and device makers have a lot in common23:10
TSCHAKeee2the challenge is bridging the communication gap23:10
GAN900TSCHAKeee2, which leaves it lacking the appeal of maemo.org.23:12
GAN900And that's unfortunate.23:13
smithnaI was curious about that as (given IVI, the only version I have looked at) some things were missing, problems that other distros had already solved.  For example, the lack of udev rules for usb/bluetooth gps devices23:13
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felipecplaying FLACs should perform much better now :) http://felipec.wordpress.com/2010/10/02/gst-av-0-4-better-performance-for-flac-vorbis-and-mp3-part-2/23:14
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StskeepsGAN900: so what do you want, it being a full scale end user product?23:14
Stskeepsfelipec: cool23:14
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felipecStskeeps: 28 hours :)23:14
Stskeepsof playback? :P23:15
felipeclol, yeap23:15
Stskeepsnot bad23:16
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Stskeepsi'm not going to convert my music collection to ogg though ;)23:18
Stskeepsor flac23:18
Bostikflac's a good option23:18
felipecflac is great for audiophiles :)23:19
Bostikyou can trivially convert to any other format if you want or need :)23:19
sofarsure but coding lossy -> lossy is bad23:19
Bostikflac = Free Lossless Audio Codec23:19
Bostikhence it's a great storage format23:20
felipecI have some good quality headphones, and I can definitely appreciate the different between FLAC and vorbis/mp323:20
sofararguably ogg is about as large as flac23:20
sofarI can't even hear the difference between 96kbit audio and flac on a netbook :)23:20
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Bostikmust be one crappy audio card23:22
sofarit could be the ipod mini headphones too23:22
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Bostikcould be; the sound quality from an ipod (shuffle, at least) has been remarkably good when I've given it a try23:24
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Bostikbut then again, I'm one of those sick individuals who buy high-eng earphones for home use..23:25
sofarI look at them and decide to spend my money elsewhere23:27
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sofaras in "I don't need that!!!"23:27
sofartriple OTA DVB-T tuners in my home-built DVR takes presedence23:28
BostikI just consider them investments in ergonomy23:28
TSCHAKeee2sofar: are you familiar with LinuxMCE? I'm the lead dev. http://www.linuxmce.org/ :)23:28
GAN900Stskeeps, I'd like something that mixes that same magic of maemo.org and not a vendor-oriented, anti-hobbyist experience.23:29
sofarTSCHAKeee2: no, what is that?23:29
StskeepsGAN900: it's hardly anti-hobbyist as any given software engineer is comparable to any given hobbyist - you can't tell the difference on mailing lists or IRC23:29
TSCHAKeee2sofar: a complete unified smart home platform, combining media and home automation in a single operating system23:30
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TSCHAKeee2sofar: unifying media, lighting, telephony, security, and climate control23:30
sofarTSCHAKeee2: records HD tv and grabs listings from schedulesdirect?23:30
TSCHAKeee2yes23:31
sofarhas a reasonable amount of dependencies and can be built without removing parts of my brain and sacrificing goats?23:31
Stskeepsmaybe small furry animals23:31
TSCHAKeee2sofar: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2176025602905109829 <-- demo23:31
sofaroh no, it's a whole OS... fail23:31
TSCHAKeee2sofar: it replaces everything.23:32
sofarwell, that ends my interest in it already23:32
TSCHAKeee2sofar: why? the system is able to do things that nobody else can do at present23:32
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TSCHAKeee2sofar: watch the demo23:32
TSCHAKeee2;)23:32
sofarit can't run on my OS -> can't do everything23:32
GAN900Stskeeps, by hobbyist, I don't necessarily mean people coding.23:32
TSCHAKeee2sigh23:32
sofarlol23:32
GAN900Stskeeps, I started out in Maemo as an end user.23:33
TSCHAKeee2sofar: so, you're saying your duct taped setup is better than something that's had 8 years of development behind it?23:33
GAN900Stskeeps, I'd like not to see the contribution path that maemo.org offered be lost.23:33
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sofarlol video, a maze of menus23:34
sofarTSCHAKeee2: for me, yup23:34
StskeepsGAN900: well, maemo.org was great at community growth and contribution within the community.. but was it contribution to a product?23:34
TSCHAKeee2sofar: watch the demo. :)23:34
sofarTSCHAKeee2: don't get me wrong, I'm not a normal user. If I'd use something like linuxMCE I'd just buy a fricken device with it on it23:35
StskeepsGAN900: as in, did we do anything else than improving community?23:35
TSCHAKeee2sofar: indulge me? ;)23:35
GAN900Stskeeps, well, perhaps my efforts should focus on a new ITt-like website, instead.23:36
sofarhaha "only 3 buttons!" .... 30 seconds later "plus OK and Cancel"23:36
GAN900Since I'm not sure meego.com is compatible with those values.23:36
sofaroh christ I see mythtv coming through the linuxmce UI23:38
sofarworst UI ever23:38
TSCHAKeee2I am working on rewriting it.23:38
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sofarmythtvfrontend?23:38
TSCHAKeee2sofar: no, all the mythUI stuff is completely being replaced23:39
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sofarthank goodness23:39
TSCHAKeee2blank skin, but everything running through the new orbiter23:39
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TSCHAKeee2orbiter in and of itself is a distributed UI23:39
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sofarin the current state mythtv-frontend is unsaveable23:39
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TSCHAKeee2something that mythfrontend could never do23:39
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sofarit could never pass the grandparents test23:39
TSCHAKeee2sorry, the so called grandparents test is dubious23:40
TSCHAKeee2but that's a whle other discussion23:40
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sofarlol the motion remote sounds like it's going to drive people nuts23:44
TSCHAKeee2sofar: we support a whole bunch of different remotes, and tablets, pda's, a few IP phones, a few different cell phones as orbiters as well23:44
TSCHAKeee2all kept in sync23:44
StskeepsGAN900: i wouldn't mind iTT back..23:44
GAN900Stskeeps, perhaps it would be best for everybody to leave meego.com to the engineers and the really dedicated hobbyists.23:45
StskeepsGAN900: nah - there's obviously more to a platform than engineers :)23:46
GAN900And take the maemo.org-style community somewhere where professional collaboration isn't trying to take place.23:46
smithnaTSCHAKeee2: you don't like mythui?23:46
sofarTSCHAKeee2: don't get me wrong stuff like linuxmce is nice, but my home box also dubs as a http/https server, firewall/dmz, etc, so I'm not going to replace that quickly with some ubuntu derivative (especially if I'm paid to work on meego)23:46
TSCHAKeee2smithna: mythUI doesn't fit the goals of a house wide UI at all23:46
StskeepsGAN900: what is a maemo.org-style community in your view?23:46
GAN900Yes, l10n, documentation, issue tracking, etc., etc.23:47
Stskeepslike, if you had to sum it up in a sentence or two23:47
jacktheripperI tried the method here http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd. After enabling USB storage mode, the phone just shows the dimmed Nokia logo after a few seconds (disconnects). How can I fix that ?23:47
sofarI'd rather spend my free time investigating technology instead of consuming it23:47
TSCHAKeee2thanks for taking the time to view it23:47
TSCHAKeee2and thank you for your ever so tactful way of downplaying me and everything i stand for23:48
TSCHAKeee2really appreciate it23:48
TSCHAKeee2:)23:48
sofareh I'm a critic, and generally fobic of new projects that reek like KDE, ubuntu etc23:48
TSCHAKeee2those that can23:48
TSCHAKeee2do23:48
TSCHAKeee2those that don't23:48
TSCHAKeee2critique23:48
TSCHAKeee2:)23:48
TSCHAKeee2but really, again.. thakns.23:49
sofarI'm paid to integrate new technologies in MeeGo, therefore, If I'm not a critic, shit will end up in MeeGo23:49
TSCHAKeee2and if it didn't occur to you.. I am in here ,because one of my long term goals is to build a version of it on top of MeeGo23:49
TSCHAKeee2starting with Orbiter23:49
TSCHAKeee2mind you, i am doing it for free23:50
GAN900Stskeeps, at its core its an enthusiast community.23:50
TSCHAKeee2not being paid, like you23:50
sofarand if you ever need to enable some of your requirements in MeeGo, you can come straight to me and I can push it through the official MeeGo channels and see if we can support it23:50
GAN900Which gives you a lot of engaged users who usually end up becoming contributors.23:51
StskeepsGAN900: right, that i do agree with - and the people involved in meego aren't enthusiasts for a open mobile platform?23:51
TSCHAKeee2sofar: thank you.23:51
sofarso while being a critic, I do appreciate everyone who wants to build something on MeeGo and will work hard "behind the curtain" to facilitate people that do stuff like that23:51
GAN900Stskeeps, so far it's mostly paid employees.23:51
GAN900and a few hardcore hackers23:51
GAN900But the issue comes down to it not catering to anybody who's just a user, engaged or not.23:52
GAN900Which is partially due to there being no devices yet and no usable platform to speak of.23:52
StskeepsGAN900: playing devil's advocate here: how should a platform cater to users?23:52
Stskeepslike, areas you'd like to see it do so in23:53
GAN900But also a function of the type of collaboration that goes on in that space.23:53
GAN900Stskeeps, it doesn't, really, if people only ever see a vendor's intepretation.23:53
GAN900And by "it", I mean meego.com as a collaboration space.23:54
GAN900Not MeeGo as a software platform.23:54
Stskeepswell, it brings to an interesting point..let's say we have Nokia MeeGo eventually23:54
Stskeepswhere should their bugs go?23:54
GAN900(why does the language for these discussions suck so much)23:54
GAN900As it stands, it's likely to be /dev/null23:54
GAN900Since clearly they're not welcome on meego.com23:55
sofardepends, if they're meego.com components they're very welcome23:55
GAN900and clearly Nokia isn't going to offer a bugzilla.23:55
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GAN900and we know how much Nokia (doesn't) Care. ;)23:56
GAN900So, real people only ever see vendors' interpretations of MeeGo.23:56
sofaryes, likely23:56
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GAN900Vendors' interpretations aren't relevant to meego.com23:56
w00t_so let's close it down and all go drinking23:57
* w00t_ nods23:57
sofarhehehe23:57
Stskeepsw00t_: you can't leave the house, the feds have you surrounded23:57
GAN900Thus you can't really have real people under a certain contribution point involved in meego.com23:57
w00t_Stskeeps: eheh.. i do wonder what that was about23:57
sofarthey're over by my house, he's safe23:57
johnxw00t_, do I need to come bust you out?23:57
GAN900Which leads me to my question of where (and how) do we set up the maemo.org magic?23:58
StskeepsGAN900: where did maemo.org start out anyway? i think of the involvement with community as involvement by app developers in the platform and giving feedback on it23:59
Stskeepsin the beginning23:59
Stskeepsthen it expanded to be more like user minded which well, didn't work well23:59

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