IRC log of #meego for Sunday, 2010-09-19

CosmoHill	eep	00:00
CosmoHill	someone who has a muffin	00:01
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cpg	is zypper a meego thing? like a wrapper around yum?	00:10
CosmoHill	it's a RPM package manager like yum	00:10
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CosmoHill	I think zypper will replace yum at some point i meego but for now we have both	00:11
cpg	k	00:11
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cpg	i am trying to get the nvidia stuff compiled. however, the kernel this system is running is 2.6.33.3-11.1-netbook	00:12
cpg	and the kernel devel is 2.6.33.5-24.1-netbook	00:12
CosmoHill	goof luck with that	00:12
cpg	there are no updates for these, though	00:12
CosmoHill	run zypper update or zypper upgrade	00:12
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cpg	no kernel updates, near as i can tell from the list	00:13
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sofar	there will only be zypper from 1.1 on	00:18
sofar	all test/daily images are already without yum	00:18
sofar	zypper is opensuse's replacement for yum	00:18
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CosmoHill	yay I was right	00:20
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smithna	sofar: so where/how do you add repo to zypper? I guess I need to move my repos over...	00:22
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sofar	/etc/zypp/repo.d/	00:22
* CosmoHill offers sofar a muffin		00:23
sofar	reminds me I need to work out a way to do debuginfo-install with zypper	00:23
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mode14	what is meego?	00:23
CosmoHill	awesome	00:23
sofar	an open source linux distribution targeting mobile devices	00:23
CosmoHill	for more information go to meego.com	00:24
sofar	created by merging maemo and moblin	00:24
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sofar	do we have a bot for this stuff?	00:24
sofar	!meego	00:24
sofar	!help	00:24
CosmoHill	would you like sploosh?	00:24
sofar	I wonder if it would be helpful	00:24
CosmoHill	I know there are a few bots in here but no idea who controls them	00:24
mode14	huh	00:25
CosmoHill	sofar: actually to be honest not many people come in here asking what meego is	00:25
mode14	so it's like an OS for mobile devises	00:25
sofar	mode14: yes	00:25
CosmoHill	mode14: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeeGo	00:25
mode14	ok	00:25
mode14	u guys are neat!	00:25
CosmoHill	you wouldn't happen to be 14 years old btw?	00:25
mode14	lol	00:26
mode14	nope	00:26
CosmoHill	96?	00:26
sofar	he's 12	00:26
sofar	;)	00:26
sofar	just kidding	00:26
* johnx has been told he has the attention span and maturity of a 12 year old		00:26
CosmoHill	I had an 11 year old quiz me to prove I was the real cosmo because I had to reconnect	00:26
mode14	mode14 was old BBS i started back when i was 14	00:27
sofar	hah	00:27
sofar	you just admitted to be old	00:27
sofar	you said "BBS"	00:27
CosmoHill	the fact that I ghosted my nick and became op wasn't classed as proof	00:27
CosmoHill	Be Back Soon?	00:27
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mode14	BBS's where pretty cool in the day	00:28
sofar	CosmoHill: you must be a noob for not knowing that :P	00:28
CosmoHill	:o	00:29
kfx	I miss .QWK	00:29
CosmoHill	stop making things up	00:29
kfx	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWK_%28file_format%29	00:29
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sofar	tbh I never used BBS's myself. I had a friend though who overloaded his dad's phone bill for my purposes without problems though :)	00:30
* johnx started using computers a bit later than most geeks		00:31
CosmoHill	I got my first computer two years after sofar stop using VS	00:33
sofar	hahaha	00:33
sofar	first time I used a computer was in '84	00:33
johnx	bought one of the first sub-$1000 dollar desktops available in the US	00:33
CosmoHill	your first computer is older than me	00:33
sofar	my school was the first elementary school with a computer in the country	00:33
kfx	my first computer was a VIC-20	00:35
kfx	PRESS PLAY ON TAPE_	00:35
CosmoHill	mum's first computer is in the loft	00:35
johnx	it's actually strange. they had me making LOGO 'programs' on an Apple ][ in 3rd and 4th grade (circa 93/94, but I never really got back into computers until '99 or so	00:35
CosmoHill	all I remeber was that it was green on black on the screen and I wasn't allow to touch it	00:35
kfx	an apple II in 1994?	00:36
kfx	that is one impoverished school	00:36
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johnx	kfx, they had a couple newer 386/486-type machines, but yeah, it was a Catholic school. it also might have been a newer Apple machine, but it was definitely non-macintosh, and definitely had a separate floppy drive	00:37
kfx	the Apple IIgs was the last decent product apple produced	00:37
johnx	matter of opinion :)	00:38
* CosmoHill is a computer scavanger		00:38
johnx	CosmoHill, oh yes, been there, done that. Just be careful not to become a parts-hoarder	00:39
kfx	johnx: it's been hypercard ever since.	00:39
CosmoHill	bit to late	00:39
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CosmoHill	I have a "collection" of powermac G4s, none of which I had to buy	00:39
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Blice	Hi, where can I find sshd and samba server for meego?	00:39
Blice	I couldn't find them in the repositories.	00:40
kfx	someone gave me a few dual-proc powermac g5s	00:40
kfx	I wasted a lot of time trying to make them useful	00:40
CosmoHill	Blice: zypper search sshd	00:40
CosmoHill	my friend has car parts in his G5 :/	00:40
CosmoHill	oh wait, the cooling was made by a car company and that was why it leaked	00:41
kfx	horrible machines	00:41
johnx	kfx, the other computer on my desk is actually a G5 imac. works well enough. I have ports installed and it's generally non-annoying	00:41
johnx	it runs really hot though	00:41
kfx	most of the uselessness is because the crippled OFW	00:41
kfx	yeah those things are space heaters	00:41
johnx	crippled OFW? dunno, it boots from USB so I'm happy	00:41
kfx	and you can't even put a real OS on them because Apple can't code Forth worth a crap	00:42
sofar	Blice: zypper install openssh-server	00:42
sofar	Blice: there's no smb/cifs server in meego	00:42
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kfx	johnx: original G5 Powermacs couldn't boot from usb because the OFW reset the USB connection mid-boot. It was firewire or nothing.	00:42
mode14	hey, u guys are great! i really like this channel	00:42
mode14	it feels like home	00:42
mode14	but i gotta run	00:42
johnx	'later mode14	00:43
mode14	laterz	00:43
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johnx	kfx, yeah. the OFW varies pretty impressively between different Macs	00:43
johnx	I was really lucky with the powerbook G4 I have	00:43
kfx	those were almost really good machines	00:43
johnx	runs debian great	00:43
kfx	if they would have had some quality control they could have been great	00:43
johnx	the power socket is *&#$#ing awful though	00:44
kfx	I've tried to get one one in the past but most of the ones floating around now have hosed motherboards	00:44
johnx	ah, I had the last gen of 15" powerbook made. I think they must have worked out most of the problems by then	00:44
* CosmoHill will return once he's helped someone with binutils		00:44
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johnx	really strangely, it's one of the best linux-running laptops I've come across	00:46
kfx	nobody can be wrong all the time! :)	00:48
johnx	suspend-resume has never crashed it, and fan/thermal management seems to work just fine	00:48
johnx	yeah, it's just I usually don't manage to scavenge working stuff	00:48
kfx	all the thermal stuff should be handled by the mainboard in power systems, I think	00:48
johnx	fan control?	00:48
kfx	yeah	00:48
johnx	the firmware will manage it ... kinda	00:48
johnx	but if you expose it to the linux kernel it'll work a lot better	00:49
kfx	I mean, I'm sure it's exposed for manual control, but power systems (even servers) generally handle that on their own	00:49
CosmoHill	anyone wanna help me help someone with binutils?	00:49
johnx	crickets	00:49
kfx	thermal control has bitten apple in the ass at other times, too. macbook airs will disable a processor core at a certain threshhold, then the system loses all stability	00:49
CosmoHill	ah, Mr Tumble Weed, You up for a challenge?	00:50
johnx	CosmoHill, what problem/error do they see?	00:50
CosmoHill	http://pastebin.com/aGMVQxrC.	00:50
CosmoHill	http://pastebin.com/aGMVQxrC	00:50
johnx	ahahaha. LFS	00:50
johnx	nope. no help from me	00:50
kfx	autotools screwing up? no possible way	00:51
CosmoHill	I'm impressed you reconised that by an error	00:51
johnx	/mnt/lfs ? :P	00:51
CosmoHill	hush you	00:51
johnx	the whole point of LFS is to learn the whole system inside and out	00:51
johnx	if someone else gives you answers it becomes completely pointless	00:52
CosmoHill	do you know my biggest problem with LFS?	00:52
johnx	unhelpful people named johnx? :D	00:52
kfx	autotools?	00:52
CosmoHill	I compile it without any issues	00:52
CosmoHill	kfx: there is no autotools in there	00:52
kfx	you wrote a ./configure script from scratch?	00:53
CosmoHill	it comes with binutils	00:53
CosmoHill	oh you mean automake and autoconf? kk	00:53
kfx	and is part of autotools	00:53
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kfx	something is wrong with that configure script. find out what it's doing to test that int8_t thing and fix the test program	00:54
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CosmoHill	hmm	00:55
kfx	check config.log or such	00:55
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CosmoHill	http://pastebin.com/DuJYsMG0	00:57
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Jaffa	lbt: The "don't agree that [...] supporting componentised applications is an objective we should take for the near term" one?	01:02
cpg	hi, how can i seelect the kernel that boots? there does not seem to be a grub.conf or menu.conf	01:02
kfx	CosmoHill: looks like you're either a) missing libc for the target architecture or b) have an outdated gcc (cf. http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=45084 )	01:02
lbt	yea	01:02
CosmoHill	stubs.h is missing	01:02
Jaffa	lbt: yes.	01:02
lbt	I dunno what I feel about that	01:03
Jaffa	lbt: seen it's become one of the election issues?	01:04
lbt	I gues the MeeGo Inside sticker is more important than the principles	01:04
lbt	no... url?	01:04
lcuk	lbt	01:05
lbt	lcuk	01:05
Jaffa	lbt: Well, it's got overshadowed by w00t_ this evening. Damn him ;-)	01:05
Jaffa	lbt: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=819883#post819883	01:05
lbt	heh...	01:07
lcuk	9:20pm uk time in here, i think I understand carstens idea about the meego staging area for cross platform libraries to be held and maintained	01:07
johnx	lcuk, is 'staging' the name that people are going with?	01:07
lbt	I've decided to rest my brain for the night so I'm playing with ldap's cn=config and kerberos instead ;)	01:07
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johnx	lbt, fun times :D	01:08
johnx	sounds very restful	01:08
lbt	johnx: heh... it was a year+5days ago today that I started on this -- you recall?	01:08
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CosmoHill	johnx: my biggest problem with LFS is that the people in the support channel can cock up LFS in amazing ways you can't even imagine	01:08
lbt	My self signed cert expired ;)	01:08
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kfx	you'll have to email yourself a new csr	01:09
johnx	CosmoHill, by suggesting you do totally weird things?	01:09
johnx	lbt, ahaha. I was going to guess that you were still working on it a year later :)	01:10
CosmoHill	no I do LFS perfectly without any issues which is what makes it hard for me to help people	01:10
lbt	johnx: no... I'm setting up Meego.com ldap now...	01:10
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johnx	actually my debian 'testing' install 'upgraded' itself from config-on-disk to cn=config the other day. remarkably it all came up working	01:10
lbt	you all need krb5 bwahahhaha	01:10
CosmoHill	lbt: what witch craft is this that you speak of?	01:10
* kfx issues a ticket-granting-ticket		01:11
johnx	lbt, I played with krb5 for a while then decided it wasn't worth the hassle. I can see it being a good idea for a big single sign-on type thing though	01:11
* lbt explains to revd Kathy how to get a kerberos ticket		01:11
kfx	krb5 is super awesome once you get it set up	01:11
kfx	I've used to to set up shared roaming homedirs in windows and linux	01:11
johnx	yeah, krb5 is like falling down a flight of stairs to find a pot of gold	01:11
lbt	johnx: yeah... my desktop has it... it's a pita if it expires since $HOME is on kerberised nfs...	01:11
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kfx	spend enough time with krb5 and you can look like a magician	01:12
kfx	including the grey hair	01:12
johnx	and the random arcane murmuring	01:12
kfx	and the weird robes	01:12
lbt	-L10d	01:12
lcuk	johnx, seems ok for now	01:13
johnx	staging just implies that after it sits here for a while it will go somewhere else	01:14
lcuk	yes it does	01:14
johnx	'contributed libraries' makes a lot more sense, but I guess I should get on the mailing list and duke it out	01:14
johnx	wait, so it will go somewhere else after a while? maybe I don't understand the proposal...	01:14
lbt	I thought Surrounds was gaining a foothold :)	01:15
johnx	I propose suburbs!	01:15
lcuk	freedom medway :)	01:15
lbt	Staging implies a definite intent to move to Core	01:15
johnx	aaaah, the meego shantytown!	01:15
lbt	and I don't think that's true	01:15
johnx	lbt++	01:15
kfx	is there really a problem with distributing a package that installs an additional package repository?	01:15
lbt	Suburbs is nice	01:15
lbt	kfx: no	01:16
lbt	but calling it compliant is the issue	01:16
lcuk	there may be no intent to enter the core	01:16
lbt	which is a branding problem	01:16
johnx	well, it's a user experience problem that can be avoided with some planning	01:16
kfx	lbt: you sell a compliant device, and a savvy user installes meego-extras if she so desires. problem avoided	01:16
lbt	yon typical OSS application won't be allowed to be labelled "compliant"	01:16
lcuk	its not always convenient to just change everything because the application may have a strong foothold on other platforms with the toolkits available there	01:16
lbt	so yon typical OSS application will be forever 2nd class	01:16
johnx	and basically we can improve user experience and developer experience with some pre-planning	01:17
kfx	yon typical OSS app can statically link if they want 1st class stuff	01:17
cpg	sorry to butt-in -- can someone provide me with a pointer to select what kernel gets run at boot time, i don't even see grub installed	01:17
lbt	you won't be able to "port" things to meego	01:17
lcuk	lbt huh?	01:17
lbt	kfx: yes... making the barrier to port that much higher	01:17
lcuk	of course you can	01:17
johnx	cpg, is this on meego-arm? meego netbook? ... ?	01:17
kfx	but let's face it, yon typical OSS app is second class right now and always has been	01:17
cpg	netbook	01:17
sofar	cpg: /etc/extlinux/extlinux.conf if it's netbook	01:17
lbt	lcuk: not and label them comliant	01:17
ScottishDuck	Is it true that wayland might be going into meego?	01:17
kfx	that's not meego's fault	01:17
johnx	kfx, and we have a chance right now to try and fix that	01:17
sofar	ScottishDuck: might ?	01:18
lbt	kfx: and this keeps them that way	01:18
sofar	ScottishDuck: anything might	01:18
lbt	johnx: indeed	01:18
Blice	in media, there's a dropdown and autofilled in it is "Music", I drop it down and the only options are Playlist and Music- where is video? Is there a way for me to add things to this dropdown?	01:18
cpg	sofar: no /etc/extlinux	01:18
lbt	speak now or forever hold your piece ;)	01:18
sofar	whoops /boot/extlinux	01:18
sofar	sorry	01:18
kfx	ScottishDuck: wayland isn't stable or particularly useful atm	01:19
kfx	I seriously doubt anyone at all will ship wayland	01:19
ScottishDuck	Blice: gb/2 futaba	01:19
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sofar	wayland is very very far away	01:19
Blice	ScottishDuck: using meego as my media center atm	01:19
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kfx	I'd rather have awesome OSS apps treated as second class by marketing drones than hose up the normal development process by injecting random demands from marketing drones	01:20
Blice	ScottishDuck: I might just install one of those other linux media center softwares ontop of futaba instead, if I can't get the quirks out of meego	01:20
wmarone	kfx: then prepared to be forever excluded because you aren't bringing in money	01:20
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lbt	kfx: there are solutions	01:20
wmarone	and consider yourself a fool for helping those who are treaing you poorly	01:20
lbt	but there is no will to explore them	01:21
johnx	kfx, uhm, it's not a one or the other type deal, AFAICT. it's about making an opportunity to get your deps closer to core so other people can take advantage of them if you want	01:21
sofar	haha the usual depressed opinions are out	01:21
kfx	wmarone: I don't understand what you're saying, but fortunately, I don't care	01:21
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johnx	kfx, did you see Stskeeps' thoughts further up in the scrollback?	01:21
wmarone	kfx: helping meego along, only to be told by people "oh your stuff is going to be treated as second class" is a fool's errand	01:21
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lcuk	lbt, once a developer gets to a stage where he has an app built on one platform	01:21
kfx	johnx: I understand that, but it sounds like someone is going to have to explain automatic dependency resolution to some extremely non-technical people	01:21
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lcuk	as open source	01:22
sfrique_	hey	01:22
sfrique_	i just got an n900	01:22
sofar	enjoy	01:22
sfrique_	any one can tell me if i cacn install meego in it ?	01:22
sfrique_	thanjs sofar	01:22
sofar	sure you can, but do you want to?	01:22
sofar	it doesn't make calls yet	01:22
sfrique_	is that bad yet ?	01:22
johnx	kfx, yes, Stskeeps will be the person who has to do that I think. Luckily he's in the right place to do it	01:22
sfrique_	thanks sofar	01:23
sfrique_	hahhaha	01:23
sfrique_	haave any ideia when it might be ready ?	01:23
johnx	sfrique_, when other people pitch in and help, maybe?	01:23
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sofar	questions containing the word "when" can't be answered by the people who know	01:23
johnx	either that or just sign up for the mailing list and wait for announcements	01:23
Jaffa	kfx: Our senior managers understand Ivy (JAR dependency management) as much as they need to in reducing the complexity of building our complex enterprise software. That's why I get paid the big architectural bucks cough: to be able to explain such deeply technical concepts as a "directed ordered graph"	01:23
sfrique_	thanks so far	01:24
sofar	Jaffa: who do you work for actually?	01:24
kfx	Jaffa: yeah, I just work for people who understand computers. :) but I know such a privilege is very rare	01:24
sfrique_	johnx how can i help ? hahah	01:24
johnx	sfrique_, http://meego.com/developers is a good start	01:25
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cpg	sofar: thanks again	01:25
sfrique_	i am not a developer	01:25
sfrique_	just wondoring if i can do anything to help	01:25
sfrique_	but let me read	01:25
sofar	there's a ton to do if you can help	01:26
sofar	one of the best things to do is test & file bugs	01:26
sfrique_	how coulld i test ?	01:26
Blice	so, anyone know how to edit what all folders the media tab will look through?	01:26
sfrique_	is there an virtual image ?	01:26
kfx	do the meego core devs actually read the bug tracker?	01:26
kfx	that would be fantastic	01:26
lcuk	lbt, then you know what we do	01:27
sofar	kfx: I do	01:27
kfx	awesome	01:27
sofar	not every bug but I try to browse incoming bugs regularly	01:27
lcuk	lbt, we put out as much info about what to check for for the meego crossplatformy ness needed	01:27
sofar	in case you see an unattended bug I can escalate	01:27
kfx	I was just curious	01:28
sofar	stskeeps is very reactive too	01:28
sofar	pro-active even	01:28
lbt	Take lost od "MeeGo Complaint" stickers to the conference?	01:28
lcuk	i have been playing with my maemo packages on ubuntu at the moment	01:28
kfx	maemo bugs were handled ...strangely	01:28
lcuk	it would be good to get some hw that can run it on	01:28
sofar	I hate to say it but getting a cheap netbook that runs meego is one of the better ways of help testing	01:29
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lbt	"Shopper, a MeeGo Complaint application"	01:29
* lbt likes that :)		01:29
lcuk	i hate not being able to touch and draw on my code	01:29
sofar	easy to install, etc. most hardware supported	01:29
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lcuk	i have been using a4 pad again recently	01:29
sofar	lcuk: fortunately there's a few multitouch capable machines	01:29
lcuk	but it must accept a stylus or pen of some sort !!	01:29
lbt	wacom	01:30
kfx	arrandale graphics aren't supported in meego yet	01:30
lcuk	sofar, multitouch is a bonus	01:30
lcuk	dual mode ones exist	01:30
lcuk	stylus only slows me down when coding	01:30
sofar	best one out there is lenovo s10-3t	01:30
sofar	I think HP is coming out with something soon, not sure	01:30
lcuk	i have to hold stylus and type at same time its drustrating	01:30
lcuk	frustrating	01:30
sofar	I'd personally be interested in a cheap arm-based test platform	01:31
sofar	but I haven't found one yet	01:31
johnx	mmm, so I guess we're getting a samsung galaxy tab in at work. hope I'll be able to drag it home for a weekend and see if can get it booting a non-android kernel	01:31
lcuk	my lenovo x41 was almost perfect	01:31
lcuk	but for lacking multitouch ontop	01:31
johnx	sofar, arm-based netbook-type? or arm-based tablet-type?	01:31
sofar	johnx: either	01:31
johnx	efika mx netbook	01:32
sofar	mtouch?	01:32
johnx	haven't used it, but looks like a reasonable thing	01:32
johnx	nope. not touchscreen	01:32
johnx	aaah, didn't realize that's what you meant	01:32
sofar	yeah for handset UX, kinda need mtouch	01:32
lcuk	johnx, liqflow on this x201, i can run it with 25000 particles instead of the n900 version which uses 200-1000 ;)	01:33
johnx	yeah. the core i3/i5 is serious hardware :)	01:33
lcuk	errr its x200s	01:34
sofar	johnx: i3/i5 is great for running meego, except no multitouch platforms yet	01:34
lcuk	johnx, i found out though, running it on a desktop, to do scrolling it needs mousewheel support :O	01:35
ScottishDuck	kids can play in the i5 pool, I'll be over here with my i7	01:35
sofar	i7 also runs meego fine, obviously :)	01:36
johnx	ScottishDuck, over here in AMD-land, sitting on the fat part of the price/performance curve :)	01:36
wmarone	wow	01:37
wmarone	http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/18/intel-wants-to-charge-50-to-unlock-stuff-your-cpu-can-already-d/	01:37
johnx	wmarone, aaaawesome	01:37
ScottishDuck	Can't see you from the top of the performance mountain, johnx :P	01:37
johnx	that's why competition is good :)	01:37
johnx	ScottishDuck, the foothills are nice and comfy, and a lot easier to get to :D	01:37
wmarone	indeed, AMD needs to pick it up	01:37
Jaffa	sofar: http://www.chpconsulting.com/	01:38
CosmoHill	I might get some AMD computers soon :)	01:40
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sofar	Jaffa: spiffy website :)	01:41
Jaffa	sofar: Got redone a few months ago.	01:42
CosmoHill	I can see grading :o	01:42
Jaffa	sofar: Old version had an announcement when I was hired. That was nice :-)	01:42
Jaffa	sofar: New version doesn't go back to 2005 :-(	01:43
Jaffa	sofar: Shows up in http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CC4QxQEwBg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fviewer%3Fa%3Dv%26q%3Dcache%3Asab3gejlJzkJ%3Awww.robinson-toms.com%2Fdownloads%2FLeasing%252520Life%252520recruitment%252520article%252520Robinson%252520Toms%252520Recruitment%252520March%25252005.pdf%2Bchp%2Bconsulting%2B%2522andrew%2Bflegg%2522%26hl%3Den%26pid%3Dbl%26srcid%3DADGEESiZIhb3eODIfqEWHleUNSVAgzDgiOaxKQB7ggqm2oSaP3lamef	01:45
Jaffa	Eugh	01:45
sofar	ouch	01:45
Jaffa	Yay; http://web.archive.org/web/20050316152247/www.chp.co.uk/press_releases/PR_AndrewFlegg_Feb05.html	01:46
johnx	I want my own press release ... >_<	01:49
Jaffa	Being quoted on the BBC and in the NY Times is quite nice too (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3666660.stm & http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/21/technology/circuits/21next.html) - but now I'm just showing off.	01:50
Jaffa	Well, actually, that's it :-(	01:50
CosmoHill	why is the bbc using a picute of mac OS 9?	01:51
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Jaffa	CosmoHill: <shrug/>	01:51
CosmoHill	you're James Bell?	01:52
wmarone	...	01:52
Jaffa	CosmoHill: No, he worked for me ;-)	01:52
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* CosmoHill throws away the joke he had planned		01:52
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johnx	CosmoHill, wasteful to throw them away. Save them and recycle them :D	01:55
sofar	who knows, james bell might run along in here	01:55
CosmoHill	if you were James Bell I was gonna say "ever thought of working for Bell Labs and pretending you own the company?"	01:55
sofar	heh	01:55
Jaffa	CosmoHill: I suspect that joke might be like a fine wine.	01:55
sofar	I had a colleage at my former group at intel. his name was Andrew Grover	01:55
Jaffa	CosmoHill: It may need some time to... get better ;-)	01:56
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* CosmoHill sticks on a shelf in tesco		01:59
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* CosmoHill is starting to think about jobs		02:04
CosmoHill	MSR is within a 2 miles from the cambridge campus. I go to the other campus 50 miles away >.<	02:05
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mode14	so, can i install meego on me iphone ?	02:06
wmarone	you can certainly try	02:06
CosmoHill	can you install anything on an iphone?	02:06
mode14	just bootstrap it	02:06
mode14	it's a full os or what ?	02:07
CosmoHill	are you familiar with google?	02:07
ScottishDuck	my troll sense is tingling	02:07
mode14	yes	02:08
mode14	i've used google	02:08
johnx	mode14, yeah. just get linux going on the iphone, then add the meego bits	02:08
mode14	so, it's not an os ?	02:08
johnx	it's a linux distro	02:08
mode14	just an application of some kind ?	02:08
mode14	oooo	02:08
mode14	ok my bad	02:08
CosmoHill	you're actions don't enforce your answer	02:08
CosmoHill	s/you're/your/	02:09
infobot	CosmoHill meant: your actions don't enforce your answer	02:09
* mode14 slaps infobot around a bit with a large trout		02:09
CosmoHill	what is it with americans and trout?	02:09
mode14	lol	02:09
mode14	u don't like trout?	02:09
CosmoHill	I don't like fish in general	02:10
mode14	me neither	02:10
mode14	that's why i smack peeps with em	02:10
wmarone	CosmoHill: I blame Khaled Mardam-Bey	02:10
* CosmoHill smiles and nods		02:10
mode14	heh	02:11
mode14	think khaled ever made any $ on mirc?	02:11
wmarone	oh yes	02:11
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CosmoHill	I really should go to bed	02:12
mode14	ok, good night!	02:12
CosmoHill	I have to be up at 8am!....on Monday	02:12
CosmoHill	mode14: there are two kinds of things: things I do and things I should be doing	02:12
mode14	don't worry i'll hold down the chan for u	02:12
mode14	;)	02:12
mode14	ahh	02:12
mode14	ic	02:12
CosmoHill	and I'll let the kids watch the bently whilst I'm out	02:13
CosmoHill	(if it moves they're to shoot it)	02:13
mode14	so	02:14
mode14	just to recap	02:14
mode14	meego is not a phone OS ?	02:14
CosmoHill	meego is a few things	02:14
CosmoHill	car pc, netbook / nettop/ handset and bugger what was the last one	02:14
CosmoHill	tablet!	02:14
johnx	meego is a linux distro. there is a version of meego for phones, commonly called 'meego handset'	02:14
mode14	what phone would it run on ?	02:15
johnx	mode14, do you know what we mean by linux distro?	02:15
mode14	droid ?	02:15
CosmoHill	N900	02:15
mode14	yessir	02:15
mode14	ubuntu	02:15
mode14	arch	02:15
lcuk	<lcuk> lbt, the giants causeway has many pillars who could make this union of openness visual	02:15
lcuk	<lcuk> and a load of us are going near there in a few weeks ;)	02:15
lcuk	<lcuk> would be great to flood that with media and spool it together	02:15
mode14	redhat	02:15
CosmoHill	mode14: you can stop now	02:15
johnx	N900 is one of the reference platforms. Nokia's N9 is rumored to be the first handset to ship with meego	02:15
mode14	pretty cool	02:16
CosmoHill	aavid is a dev phone for meego	02:16
mode14	so, can u, say run mysql+apache on it?	02:16
CosmoHill	no	02:16
johnx	if you really wanted to, you could probably package mysql and apache for it	02:16
mode14	ssh into ur phone from ur desk .. check ur missed calls	02:16
CosmoHill	someone already asked about that today and there is no mysql for meego yet	02:16
CosmoHill	also you don't need apache on a netbook	02:16
wmarone	says you	02:16
wmarone	;P	02:17
CosmoHill	says me with apache, mysql and php on my laptop	02:17
mode14	hrmm	02:17
mode14	so it comes with vim ?	02:17
CosmoHill	you have to install vim via zyppper	02:17
mode14	how about python ?	02:17
CosmoHill	probably	02:18
mode14	python on my phone would be pretty cool	02:18
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wmarone	python is easy :)	02:18
ScottishDuck	New intel platform leaked: http://i.imgur.com/em7PX.jpg	02:18
CosmoHill	wmarone: wouldn't lighttpd be better?	02:18
mode14	xginx	02:18
wmarone	CosmoHill: sure, it's available in the maemo repos :)	02:19
CosmoHill	cool	02:19
mode14	ok	02:19
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mode14	so, when can I expect to see a meego product on the shelf in Texas?	02:19
mode14	i mean goto best buy, and buy a phone, comes with meego	02:19
mode14	or tablet	02:19
wmarone	no oen here can tell you	02:19
wmarone	one*	02:20
CosmoHill	no	02:20
mode14	secret ?	02:20
CosmoHill	meego people hate texas	02:20
mode14	i won't tell	02:20
wmarone	no, -we don't know-	02:20
mode14	lol	02:20
CosmoHill	nobody knows why but they just don't want meego in texas	02:20
mode14	i heard meego people hate texas	02:20
mode14	so it is true!	02:20
CosmoHill	yeah you heard it from me	02:20
mode14	man	02:20
mode14	that is wrong	02:20
sofar	if (question_contains("when")) { cant_tell(); }	02:20
mode14	if 'when' in question:	02:21
mode14	cant_tell()	02:21
mode14	?	02:21
CosmoHill	meego will run on sony tvs, nokias and small yappy dogs	02:21
mode14	o ya	02:21
mode14	sony tv's running linux?	02:21
mode14	pretty cool	02:21
sofar	basically, people who know planned dates for stuff can not tell that information to you.	02:22
mode14	with mysql/postgre + apache + python/php ?	02:22
mode14	ssh into my tv	02:22
wmarone	not by default	02:22
sofar	so, you won't get an answer to "when" questions	02:22
mode14	tail syslog on my tv	02:22
CosmoHill	yes they come bundled with web servers on the off change someoen wants apache on the train	02:22
mode14	irsii ?	02:22
CosmoHill	xchat for windows	02:23
CosmoHill	via wine	02:23
mode14	bundled	02:23
mode14	?	02:23
mode14	ok	02:23
mode14	nm	02:23
mode14	i dont use irsii	02:23
mode14	ok	02:23
mode14	just to recap	02:23
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mode14	meego = linux distro for netbooks/tablets/phones/wrist watches	02:24
mode14	?	02:24
sofar	and TVs	02:24
mode14	yup	02:24
mode14	my bad	02:24
mode14	tv's	02:24
CosmoHill	and small yappy dogs	02:24
mode14	maybe cable boxes too ?	02:24
sofar	sure	02:24
CosmoHill	no, satalite only	02:24
mode14	ok	02:24
mode14	how about	02:24
CosmoHill	no	02:24
CosmoHill	just no	02:24
mode14	refrigerators ?	02:24
sofar	no	02:24
mode14	right	02:24
mode14	that would be silly	02:25
sofar	refrigerators are run by real embedded OS's	02:25
lcuk	are you fridgist?	02:25
CosmoHill	unless it has a HP-PA 7100 processor	02:25
sofar	MeeGo is "general purpose"	02:25
mode14	how about, Cars ?	02:25
mode14	bmw's ?	02:25
johnx	mode14 as long as your fridge has an ARMv7 or above processor and suitable display/input hardware, I don't see why not	02:25
sofar	meego will run on cars	02:25
sofar	IVI	02:25
sofar	is what it's called	02:25
mode14	john, i've seen some fridges running windows ...	02:25
mode14	so, meego is really the future.. huh?	02:25
sofar	mode14: that's cold	02:25
CosmoHill	johnx: the milk is the mouse pointer	02:25
mode14	lol, for real	02:25
mode14	they are hot right now	02:25
mode14	so you can run browser on the fridge, and leave notes, and shopping lists, etc...	02:26
mode14	made by LG i believe	02:26
mode14	they sell em at Fry's	02:26
mode14	so, what are u guys doing here? u are meego developers ?	02:26
mode14	or using it right now ?	02:26
mode14	on a tablet ?	02:27
mode14	or small yappy dog	02:27
johnx	or a dead badget	02:27
johnx	*badger	02:27
mode14	hrmm	02:27
lcuk	i think i could have meego in a mouse	02:27
mode14	*sign	02:27
mode14	now i am confused	02:27
lcuk	and like it	02:27
mode14	gas pumps ?	02:27
lcuk	why?	02:27
CosmoHill	I came in here looking for fruit but they wouldn't let me leave	02:27
lcuk	your handheld would know you were at the pump	02:28
mode14	but, the pump could run on meego	02:28
mode14	also, the ATM	02:28
lcuk	the console UX	02:28
lcuk	:D	02:28
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trem	nite all, sweet dreams	02:28
CosmoHill	bye trem	02:29
mode14	laterz!	02:29
lcuk	nite trem \o	02:29
mode14	so	02:29
mode14	just to recap	02:29
mode14	meego is a mini linux distro	02:29
mode14	designed for embedded systems	02:29
mode14	like a phone, watch, or small yappy dog	02:29
mode14	?	02:29
CosmoHill	yes	02:29
mode14	so	02:30
mode14	can i download an iso	02:30
CosmoHill	no	02:30
mode14	and run it on my netbook	02:30
mode14	?	02:30
CosmoHill	go to meego.com	02:30
CosmoHill	the image is on the front page, best of luck	02:30
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mode14	wow	02:31
mode14	Intel Atom-based in-vehicle	02:31
mode14	u guys didn't tell me	02:31
mode14	about vehicle	02:31
mode14	holding out with the good stuff, huh?	02:31
lcuk	you are gonna shit your pants when you see the fighter jet UX	02:31
mode14	no	02:31
mode14	!	02:31
sofar	mode14: some of us are paid to work on MeeGo (like me), some are just groupies (like cosmo)	02:31
CosmoHill	especially if you're british	02:31
CosmoHill	damn US guidance system	02:32
mode14	now	02:32
mode14	to recap	02:32
mode14	meego even runs fighter jets	02:32
mode14	but, *only british	02:32
mode14	do the brits even have fighter jets ?	02:32
sofar	plenty	02:32
sofar	the brits make their own	02:32
sofar	harrier for instance	02:32
mode14	hrmm	02:32
mode14	harrier yea	02:33
mode14	isn't that a dead deal ?	02:33
CosmoHill	no we went to Iraq with a large ammount of A4 paper	02:33
mode14	hey	02:33
mode14	good question	02:33
mode14	does meego run in Iraq ?	02:33
sofar	if it's dead, tell the US they're buying dead machines :)	02:33
mode14	or Iran ?	02:33
mode14	how about Meego in Afghanistan? that would be something else	02:33
sofar	rapidly approaching off-topic here ... lol	02:33
CosmoHill	mode14: would you be willing to go there to find out?	02:34
mode14	yessir	02:34
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sofar	mode14: we don't know. what's the interest?	02:34
mode14	i am already making plans	02:34
CosmoHill	then go, be free	02:34
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mode14	maybe	02:34
mode14	in-flight entertainment will run on Meego ?	02:34
sofar	possibly	02:34
mode14	possibly, or likely ?	02:34
mode14	how about this irc server	02:34
sofar	unlikely	02:35
mode14	meego come with ircd ?	02:35
sofar	no	02:35
mode14	that would be pretty cool	02:35
mode14	ircd on my wrist-watch	02:35
sofar	it wouldn't	02:35
mode14	or ircd on a fighter jet	02:35
mode14	even, ircd on my refrigerator	02:35
ahf	sounds useless to me, to be honest.	02:35
mode14	hrmm	02:35
mode14	*sign	02:35
mode14	ok then	02:35
mode14	let's recap once more	02:35
mode14	meego can possibly power Barack Obama	02:36
mode14	?	02:36
mode14	o nevermind	02:36
mode14	he is useless	02:36
sofar	Warning: approaching off-topic limits	02:36
ahf	is the 14 in your nickname your age?	02:36
mode14	ok ok	02:36
mode14	i c	02:36
mode14	lol	02:36
mode14	no sir	02:36
CosmoHill	ahf: mental	02:36
* mode14 slaps ahf around a bit with a large trout		02:36
ahf	CosmoHill: yeah.	02:37
mode14	now	02:37
mode14	let's all behave here	02:37
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mode14	i don't like to get my trout out	02:37
sofar	lets try and keep the discussion open and neutral please	02:37
mode14	yessir	02:37
mode14	will do.	02:37
mode14	ok, so... meego will or won't come with open office	02:37
mode14	?	02:37
mode14	will it even run X ?	02:38
sofar	probably not out of the box, but you'll likely be able to install it (garage/app) etc	02:38
sofar	yes, MeeGo runs X	02:38
mode14	yea? really?	02:38
mode14	that's pretty cool	02:38
sofar	already does, yes	02:38
mode14	X on a phone..	02:38
mode14	or even a small yappy dog	02:39
sofar	MeeGo supports OpenGL / GLES	02:39
mode14	dam	02:39
sofar	there are plenty of phones that run X	02:39
mode14	u guys aren't playing around huh	02:39
mode14	o ya ?	02:39
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* rwhitby suspects mode14 is baiting people here, cause just about every question asked so far is explained on meego.com ....		02:39
sofar	n900/maemo does	02:39
mode14	can i hack my iphone to run meego ?	02:39
mode14	ok	02:40
mode14	look	02:40
* mode14 slaps rwhitby around a bit with a large trout		02:40
mode14	i'm out of here	02:40
mode14	i'm tired of the disrespect	02:40
mode14	!	02:40
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ahf	hm.	02:40
TermanaDesire	Good morning	02:40
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ahf	'oatse.	02:41
CosmoHill	really should have just ignored him from the start	02:41
sofar	he was about 1 minute away of getting moderated by me	02:42
CosmoHill	I have banned people for annoying the regulars	02:43
sofar	I can take quite a bit more but it's no longer productive at a certain point	02:43
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CosmoHill	stupidity too > http://black-flag.co.uk/files/banned.txt	02:43
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CosmoHill	I allow people to talk off topic but you must help someone if they ask for it	02:48
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CosmoHill	sofar: so much quieter in here :)	03:05
sofar	as soon as someone goes on a irc chat spree red flags appear	03:06
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CosmoHill	china?	03:06
CosmoHill	s/china/chinesse/	03:06
infobot	CosmoHill meant: chinesse?	03:06
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CosmoHill	this is by far the biggest channel I hang out in and trolls are relativly new to me	03:10
CosmoHill	most I have to put up with are hyper active kids and people who give you step by step commentary of what they are doing (apart from the bits they do wrong)	03:11
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sofar	that's nothing.. since I work for Intel I get to put up with all the flame attempts :)	03:12
CosmoHill	I decided not to mention you're from intel or a ninja in front of him	03:13
sofar	I have no problems disclosing my employment	03:13
sofar	it keeps things honest	03:13
CosmoHill	I'd reframe from mentioning it if it meant that person might take some flack as a result	03:14
CosmoHill	I have to wake up at 8am...on monday >.<	03:16
sofar	I have no choice but to wake up at random times... when my 5month old son wakes up :)	03:16
CosmoHill	awww	03:16
ScottishDuck	Soon he'll learn his first bash command	03:17
CosmoHill	congrats on the kid btw	03:17
CosmoHill	nothing says "good morning" like a lecture on parallel programming	03:18
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ScottishDuck	maybe you should learn to parallel your life	03:19
ScottishDuck	string theory makes it possible	03:19
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CosmoHill	damn hard to model if you have a cat tho	03:20
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sofar	just use two cats instead	03:20
ScottishDuck	2cat	03:20
ScottishDuck	Noone will get the reference	03:20
ScottishDuck	unless someone here plays dwarf fortress	03:21
CosmoHill	(2cat \|\| !2cat) = question	03:21
CosmoHill	oh god I just wrote shakespear in code >.<	03:21
CosmoHill	nobody point out that you can't start variables with numbers	03:22
ScottishDuck	I think shakespear used Haskell	03:22
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kfx	(2b) ? suffer(slings, arrows) : sleep(*dream);	03:26
johnx	$misfortunate = array(slings, arrows);	03:26
* sofar slaps everyone with Perl::Poetry		03:27
ScottishDuck	I recently upgraded perl so that's broken	03:29
CosmoHill	cyas	03:29
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Mat_Matan	morning	09:29
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amjad	morning mat	09:53
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leinir	sivang: booh ;)	11:38
sivang	leinir: her :)	11:44
sivang	leinir: actually, this was intended to be "hey" however it would have been less amusing :)	11:45
sivang	Morning Sunday IRCers	11:45
johnx	darn. sunday snuck up on me	11:47
johnx	didn't even notice	11:48
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johnx	still feels like saturday night somehow	11:48
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sivang	johnx: tell me about it...	11:48
sivang	johnx: imagine for where I am from, Sunday is a regular work day.	11:48
Stskeeps	i'm amazed to see a bunch of meego-commits mails on a sunday	11:48
Stskeeps	:P	11:48
th0br0	hehe	11:49
johnx	ugh. I'm too lazy to cope with working on a sunday	11:49
johnx	hmm, maybe I should get a drink while my meego image builds :>	11:49
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leinir	giggles Very true, yes :) Though, i must say, it would've not been the first time someone used that pronoun to refer to me ;)	11:50
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th0br0	;) leinir	11:53
leinir	th0br0: ;)	11:53
sivang	leinir: which pronoun ?	11:55
sivang	Stskeeps: you just reminded me that I want to subscribe to -commits, I htink that's the last mailing list I am missing	11:56
leinir	sivang: "her" ;)	11:56
sivang	leinir: ah!	11:56
sivang	hehe	11:56
sivang	leinir: I used to call dholbach of Ubuntu fame like this as well, so it wasn't so far :)	11:56
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Stskeeps	sivang: you'll regret it :)	11:57
Stskeeps	sivang: a lot of mails there	11:57
sivang	Stskeeps: I imagine, however I am quite trained at filtering thorugh K's of emails in 1-2 hours each day from my Ubuntu days :)	12:00
sivang	Stskeeps: where they are commits, that is- if it is more "meaningful" this does becomes an issue	12:00
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Stskeeps	commits are best read at meego-commits	12:01
sivang	"It's a must" (tm)	12:02
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gemidjy	what's qlineedit replacement for meego/layoutitem	13:16
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* thiago_home wouldn't use anything else		13:18
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gemidjy	but qgraphicslayout accepts only qgraphicslayout items such as MLabel or MButton ...	13:20
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Stskeeps	wb dneary	14:24
dneary	Stskeeps, Thanks	14:24
CosmoHill	I swear real people don't read my blog only spammers	14:25
TermanaN900	CosmoHill, link? (to your blog)	14:26
CosmoHill	http://black-flag.co.uk/wordpress/2010/09/03/qmake-on-powerpc/	14:26
* thiago_home had a lot of spam recently		14:27
CosmoHill	I got what I wanted tho, If you google "qmake powerpc" it's the first or second hit	14:27
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CosmoHill	my junk mail folder says 8484 :/	14:27
CosmoHill	hasn't increased at all since my friend shut down his mail server	14:27
TermanaN900	CosmoHill, u r famus	14:28
TermanaN900	:P	14:28
TermanaN900	first or second hit on google	14:28
CosmoHill	it's definartly being used a lot more this year :)	14:30
CosmoHill	basically anything I struggled with and takes a while to fix, I'll put up there to help others	14:30
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dneary	CosmoHill, That's a short term gain for a long term hit	14:41
dneary	CosmoHill, Don't allow tracebacks or comments from spammers, you'll regret it...	14:41
CosmoHill	they all go into a pending box	14:41
CosmoHill	none of them show up on the website unless I allow them	14:42
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lbt	X-Fade: ping	15:04
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gemidjy	when building libmeegotouch from git, I get "undefined reference to `MMashupCanvas::MMashupCanvas(QString const&, QGraphicsItem*)'"	16:14
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CosmoHill	either the LFS server is going pop or it's being DoD'd	17:11
CosmoHill	*DoS	17:11
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sivang	CosmoHill: DDoS'd ?	17:21
CosmoHill	maybe	17:22
CosmoHill	server just times out, both IRC and HTTP	17:22
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Termana	CosmoHill, WORKSFORME	17:34
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CosmoHill	?	17:34
CosmoHill	yeah it comes and goes	17:34
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lbt	Jaffa: Stskeeps ping	17:42
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Stskeeps	lbt, pong	17:56
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Jaffa	lbt: pong	18:11
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lbt	Jaffa: qry	18:14
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marnanel	The cmake setup for the current version of the python-meegotouch package says that it needs a file FindShiboken.cmake, which doesn't appear to be installed by shiboken. Where can I get such a file?	18:49
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thiago_home	isn't it bundled with python-meegotouch?	18:52
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marnanel	thiago_home: it doesn't appear to be. :(	19:06
marnanel	I have the 0.1.0 distribution, and the current copy from git, and neither of them contain a FindShiboken.cmake file	19:06
* thiago_home can't find it either		19:07
thiago_home	contact the authors	19:07
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marnanel	thanks	19:09
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GAN900	MeeGo: Ignoring input, experience and expertise from the Maemo Community since 2010.	20:45
thiago_home	what now?	20:45
Stskeeps	wrt compliance? not being ignored is my perception	20:48
Stskeeps	ignoring usually amounts to not responding, at all )	20:48
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Stskeeps	GAN900: care to elaborate?	20:53
CosmoHill	hey auke	20:53
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vgrade	I've added some files to the wiki for the Nexus port, http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/MSMQSD	21:06
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Jaffa	vgrade: Cool; what works, OOI? (Since it's MWKN night)	21:11
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RST38h	Jaffa: So (to save time reading the mailing list) have you already been told to stuff it in relation to the no-external-deps rule or are the real powers still showing a resemblance of discussion?	21:14
Jaffa	RST38h: There are efforts to forge a new path (e.g. Stskeeps' proposal), but no obvious willingness or persuadedness of the spec keepers	21:15
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Stskeeps	Jaffa: i think we're not yet at a solution - i personally see merit to some of their views from a strictly technical angle	21:16
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: From a strictly technical angle with an eye to pre-testing all possible MeeGo packages (wherever they may be) for compliance.	21:17
Jaffa	Stskeeps: Rather than "from a strictly technical angle amongst those most prolific developers for existing mobile Linux platforms"	21:17
RST38h	Jaffa: But is this rule applicable only to the stuffin their appstore / ovi store?	21:18
RST38h	Jaffa: Do community repos even need to follow it?	21:18
Stskeeps	the rule doesn't matter in practice, just as a sticker	21:18
Jaffa	RST38h: This rule is applicable for anything wanting to be "MeeGo Compliant". It's not entirely clear what that label will be used for,	21:18
Jaffa	RST38h: However, I'd imagine that if your package isn't compliant you wouldn't be able to call if "X for MeeGo" (c.f. Maemo trademark guidelines)	21:19
RST38h	Ok. Then the question is:"how valuable is the sticker"?	21:19
thiago_home	the compliancy is about being able to use the trademarked name	21:19
RST38h	Ah ok	21:19
thiago_home	it has to be RAND	21:19
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RST38h	Jaffa: So, it will still be ok to use "X for Harmattan" then?	21:20
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Stskeeps	Jaffa: could i ask you to try and make a proposal based on the post 'The key problems that must be solved' ?	21:20
fachrifay	i want change my n900 to meego	21:20
berndhs	Stskeeps: its mostly a market thing, technical is just a part	21:20
Stskeeps	Jaffa: post that contains, that is	21:20
Jaffa	Stskeeps: Written by?	21:20
Jaffa	Stskeeps: You?	21:21
Stskeeps	Jaffa: by me	21:21
Jaffa	Stskeeps: Will do. Won't be this evening as it's MWKN night	21:21
Stskeeps	Jaffa: :nod: i have an intense headache atm anyway so	21:21
Stskeeps	berndhs: i'm taking the devil's advocate role, as if we were put to the technical and organisational task of making a test-able sticker that says 'that a MeeGo compliant application	21:22
Stskeeps	indicated for a certain version, profile and architecture MUST install	21:22
Stskeeps	successfully on a MeeGo-compliant device running this version, profile	21:22
Stskeeps	and architecture'	21:22
Stskeeps	berndhs: we can argue all we want but until we put ourselves in their shoes, we won't understand the full challenge.	21:22
RST38h	whose "theirs"?	21:22
berndhs	Stskeeps: right, but we can't pretend it is entirely technical, that won't get anywhere either	21:23
Jaffa	Stskeeps: And is the requirement for an application, or a package?	21:23
Stskeeps	Jaffa: similar challenges	21:23
thiago_home	both	21:23
RST38h	no,no, Jaffa is making sense	21:23
RST38h	it is a valid workaround	21:23
fachrifay	helmp me!	21:23
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thiago_home	but a non-compliant application will never produce a compliant package...	21:24
RST38h	If this requirement only applies to an APPLICATION, then you can always claim an application to be a set of packages it depends on	21:24
thiago_home	fachrifay: you haven't said what your problem is yet	21:24
Jaffa	thiago_home: Indeed; but "application" is less technically well-defined than a "package". A package can be more standalone.	21:24
Stskeeps	fachrifay: do you expect to make phonecalls?	21:24
RST38h	and, as long as they have compatible licenses, you are ok	21:24
Jaffa	RST38h: ++	21:25
fachrifay	when meego go out for n900 by nokia??	21:25
Stskeeps	fachrifay: it isn't	21:25
berndhs	the big compliance issue is libraries, not really applications	21:25
Stskeeps	berndhs: could i ask you to make a proposal as well? contraints are in the post i mentioned above	21:26
Stskeeps	constraints	21:26
vgrade	Jaffa, re Nexus, I have software X, EGL and GLES, touch is working but I need to get it rotated.	21:26
berndhs	Stskeeps: let me scroll back see if i can find it	21:26
Stskeeps	berndhs: search for The key problems that must be solved ,, in message body, by carsten@maemo.org	21:26
fachrifay	maemo have many bugs eror	21:27
Stskeeps	fachrifay: then complain to nokia care	21:27
vgrade	Jaffa, kernel reports, light sensor, headset, touchscreen, keypad?, nav, compass, accelerometer, usb	21:27
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fachrifay	hei'	21:29
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coolboy	hei	21:31
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lcuk	fachrifay, Stskeeps has a point. if you experience some real system problem then go down official support pathways	21:32
Stskeeps	coolboy: please don't message me	21:32
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coolboy	why?	21:32
CosmoHill	coolboy: always ask permission before you PM someone	21:33
lcuk	impolite and shows you haven't read the irc guidelines	21:33
coolboy	oke im sorry :(	21:33
RST38h	coolboy: Asking for permission is done via /sign nickname	21:34
lcuk	CosmoHill, stop messaging me asking for credit card details	21:35
CosmoHill	okay	21:35
CosmoHill	debit card?	21:36
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lcuk	sure	21:36
n900	hei	21:36
lcuk	gimme your digits	21:36
RST38h	lcuk, I DO NOT wanrt those Russian ladies, got enough here	21:36
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Stskeeps	n900, coolboy, fachrifay: cloning is considered bad form and might get you banned from the freenode IRC network	21:36
Guest83245	how about meego on nokia n900	21:36
thiago_home	Guest83245: what about it?	21:36
thiago_home	Guest83245: please remove your other clones	21:36
Stskeeps	n900, coolboy, Guest83245: so i'd like you to restrict yourself to one connection or you'll be banned from here	21:37
RST38h	Jaffa: Actually, that thread is of great entertainment value, considering that enabled-by-defsault Extras were surprise to arjan	21:37
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RST38h	Jaffa: Hell, Extras in general appear to be a surprise to arjan =)	21:37
Guest83245	hohoho	21:37
Stskeeps	extras' isn't without problems though	21:38
RST38h	All things have problems	21:38
Stskeeps	remember the fm radio (i think) fiasco and microphone problems?	21:38
CosmoHill	can I kick him? ^.^	21:38
RST38h	Yea, but shit happens, and as long as itis quickly cleaned up, everybody is ok with it	21:39
Guest83245	hey all you taking about?	21:39
RST38h	CosmoHill: Yes, but only if you have got a really good kick comment. No fun otherwise =)	21:39
CosmoHill	RST38h: well I have three ties	21:39
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps		21:39
CosmoHill	curse you chanserv, wrong person :p	21:39
*** Stskeeps sets mode: +b !fachrifay@182.1.115.235		21:40
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*** Guest83245 was kicked by Stskeeps (you had reasonable time to remove your clones)		21:40
*** fachrifay was kicked by Stskeeps (you had reasonable time to remove your clones)		21:40
*** coolboy was kicked by Stskeeps (you had reasonable time to remove your clones)		21:40
CosmoHill	"third time banned"	21:40
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o Stskeeps		21:41
* CosmoHill gives Stskeeps a cookie		21:41
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npm	what's the correct way to get MP3/gstreamer support on meego?	22:00
npm	i could install from rpmfusion f13 but that can't be the right way	22:00
npm	seem to be missing gstreamer-plugins-ugly	22:00
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npm	and gstreamer-plugins-bad	22:02
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npm	rpm --nodeps -ivh http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-stable.noarch.rpm ; pm -ivh http://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-stable.noarch.rpm	22:10
npm	:-)	22:10
thiago_home	using --nodeps is obviously not recommended	22:11
Jaffa	Stskeeps: FM Radio was not a fiasco.	22:11
Jaffa	Stskeeps: A problem was identified, the package pulled and a fixed version uploaded.	22:12
npm	not being able to play mp3's is more of a fiasco :-)	22:12
Jaffa	Stskeeps: Any external package system has problems: Ovi is full of buggy, crashing, half-complete, non-optified crap too	22:12
ScottishDuck	lol ovi	22:13
* lbt takes some flu-medication and tried to read the compliance thread		22:13
* npm hand edits /etc/yum.repos.d/rpmfusion*		22:13
Stskeeps	lbt: nokian flu?	22:13
lbt	<sneef-fleh>	22:13
lbt	yup	22:13
Stskeeps	wife's sick and i have a massive headache, wonder if my bug activated too	22:14
* lbt has a 7am flight too :(		22:14
w00t_	oh boy	22:14
lbt	still meego ldap works...	22:14
w00t_	that sounds delightful :p	22:14
lbt	the barrier to obs opening up is gone :D	22:15
Jaffa	Yay!	22:16
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* npm sed -i 's\|^#baseurl\|baseurl\| ; s\|^mirrorlist\|#mirrorlist\|' /etc/yum.repos.d/rpmfusionfreerepo		22:17
berndhs	lbt: let me get my shades for the bright future :)	22:17
npm	getting there...	22:17
lbt	berndhs: at last	22:17
Stskeeps	lbt: so how much ahead of schedule? :)	22:18
lbt	actually a full month ahead of our last plan	22:18
Stskeeps	excellent	22:18
lbt	yeah... I think I've decoupled OBS from the SSO	22:19
lbt	which is a good thing	22:19
w00t_	not using SSO is a good thing? that's probably the first time in maemo/meego history I've heard -that- :-p	22:19
lbt	no, not "not using", decoupled	22:20
lbt	there's a plan to deploy SSO	22:20
lbt	it will use ldap as the underlying DB	22:20
npm	well that worked :-)	22:20
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lbt	I've deployed the ldap	22:20
lbt	and can do manual sync to it from meego.com	22:20
lbt	so it's "nearly sso"	22:21
Jaffa	where the first "S" is "Shared", rather than "Single"	22:21
lbt	oh yes	22:21
lbt	good point though	22:21
lbt	we may be able to do full single at some point...	22:21
lbt	but the OBS needs osc/python too	22:22
lbt	so that complicates things	22:22
Jaffa	Can't you just store my username in a cookie for *.meego.com, and trust that? ;-p	22:22
lbt	that's what I said...	22:22
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npm	well i'm now yum updating from rpmfusion, and installing all the missing gsteamer plugins	22:22
Jaffa	Pft, I bet some "security" "architect" said it'd be "insecure"	22:22
lbt	I did	22:23
lbt	I love arguing with myself	22:23
* Jaffa does too.		22:23
lbt	I always win !!	22:23
GAN900	Stskeeps: the whole discussion ignores our data with Extras.	22:23
Jaffa	I love arguing with you ;-)	22:23
lbt	arguing is good	22:23
GAN900	Stskeeps: it's symptomatic of the project, though, ignoring experience from Maemo.	22:23
lbt	shall we argue with Stskeeps?	22:23
lbt	;)	22:23
Stskeeps	i have a headache, let's not	22:23
Stskeeps	GAN900: that's very generalising..	22:24
lbt	"MeeGo World"	22:24
Jaffa	lbt: Nah, been there, done that.	22:24
* lbt shuts up about that		22:24
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GAN900	Stskeeps: likely, but I don't really care.	22:24
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Jaffa	Where's gerbick, geneven, SD69 or so on when you need them.	22:24
Stskeeps	i thought geneven was seen on forums.meego.com	22:24
lbt	berndhs too	22:24
Stskeeps	i might be wrong	22:24
Jaffa	Stskeeps: You might be right	22:25
GAN900	http://forum.meego.com/member.php?u=2683	22:25
Jaffa	0 posts.	22:26
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CosmoHill	vgrade: http://www.anglia.ac.uk/ruskin/en/home/business/facilities.html	22:35
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vgrade	CosmoHill, I was looking for venues yesterday	22:42
CosmoHill	I read your post	22:42
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vgrade	CosmoHill, I was looking for free venues	22:43
CosmoHill	I was going to ask about student discounts	22:43
vgrade	Many of the student rooms mentioned that student could book rooms free	22:43
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vgrade	The only other place I found mention of free rooms was the Town Hall but I could not find a website for them, I'll give them a ring tomorrow	22:44
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Jaffa	vgrade: Pubs often have rooms they'll let out for functions for free	22:45
vgrade	Dawn put me in touch with a couple of contacts one of which has come back to me with an offer of intel netbooks for the evening	22:46
Jaffa	vgrade: Mainly cos they're after the bar takings :)	22:46
kyb3R	and libraries	22:46
Jaffa	kyb3R: Libraries don't have beer, though.	22:46
kyb3R	Jaffa: right	22:46
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CosmoHill	I'd have to drive	22:46
Jaffa	kyb3R: Depending on your sensibilities (and the event), this may or may not be a good thing.	22:46
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vgrade	qgill also promised he would find some N900 hardware also	22:47
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Jaffa	vgrade: What's the event, btw?	22:47
CosmoHill	Jaffa: Cambridge MeeGo Meeting	22:48
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vgrade	Cambridge Local MeeGo Meeting	22:48
Jaffa	Bit far for me.	22:48
vgrade	http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1377	22:48
CosmoHill	how far is far?	22:48
Jaffa	And I'm too busy to organise a London or Warwickshire one.	22:48
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Jaffa	CosmoHill: Full length of A14 over from Cov and then down the M11. Probably about a 90 minute drive each way	22:49
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vgrade	CosmoHill, let me know if you have any luck at ARU	22:50
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vgrade	just re-read that link, 'A mock courtroom'.	22:53
CosmoHill	oh yes	22:54
CosmoHill	I'll get a picture of it tomorrow if you'd like	22:54
vgrade	might be a goo place to host some of the discussions on -dev	22:54
vgrade	good	22:54
CosmoHill	in the mock court room? Who would be the judge?	22:55
vgrade	good point	22:55
Mat_Matan	Good night	22:56
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npm	i've created a monster.. (meegolem) by adding fedora13 and rpmfusion to /etc/yum.repos	23:00
npm	i guess that'll make installing kde apps easier :-)	23:00
ScottishDuck	fedora 13 D:	23:00
npm	the roxterm i'm using to access the meego box is from f13	23:01
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CosmoHill	hey dazo_afk	23:02
npm	i will consider the exercise successful when i can play an mp3	23:02
npm	i have no idea why playing an mp3 has a dependency on openjdk, but so be it :-)	23:03
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vgrade	nmp, wonder what compliance would say about that :)	23:06
CosmoHill	vgrade: I know at chelmsford we have some nice little rooms. one can seat about 8 and has a monitor on the wall for presentations	23:06
npm	well my kid'll be asking me to install something else if i can't play his mp3's... it's a MAJOR FAIL not to have access to "nonfree codecs"	23:08
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CosmoHill	npm: major fail would be getting your name wrong in the exam	23:10
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npm	not really, then there's be no record of failure	23:10
vgrade	nmp, only joking about compliance, just stuck me as amusing after the recent discusions	23:12
npm	Linuxes that succceed try to make it easy to run flash plugins, mp3 decoders, and codecs for watching dvd's etc	23:12
npm	and all have a documented menthod of intalling nonfree codecs etc after the fact so as to keep the lawyers happy	23:13
npm	s/menthod/method s/intalling/installing	23:13
* lbt is about to (knowingly) use a mono app		23:14
CosmoHill	I prefer stereo	23:14
CosmoHill	better yet, dolby digital!	23:14
lbt	nah.... quadrophonic	23:15
lbt	I guess if I run mono on a quad-core ....	23:15
npm	i prefer ambisonics	23:16
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lbt	ooh... it's just like java	23:17
CosmoHill	painful?	23:17
lbt	no, the crash report is bigger than the scrollback...	23:17
CosmoHill	lol	23:18
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lbt	what pillock ever thought a stack-dump was a good default error report?	23:18
lbt	apparently mono doesn't have a concept of "depends"	23:19
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grishnav	hi	23:43
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