IRC log of #meego for Thursday, 2010-08-26

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lbtwell the community OBS now builds arm ... :)00:54
lcuklbt, next stop legs and torso?00:54
* lbt grins00:55
thiago_homelol00:55
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DawnFosterha!00:55
lbtwoo uxlaunch-0.50-1.1.armv5tel.rpm00:58
* thiago_home wonders why "el" needs to be in the package name00:58
thiago_homeanyone uses big-endian on ARM?00:58
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lbtafter the maze of twisty shell/perl through cpio over http into xen vms... I don't care00:59
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GAN900thiago_home, well, they might not now, but what about later? ;)01:02
thiago_homethen they use "eb"01:03
ScottishDuckWill the next build be .80.17 or will it be a beta?01:03
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GAN900Or "be"01:34
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smithnatest02:34
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DawnFostersmithna: testing anything interesting?02:35
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CosmoHillbye02:56
CosmoHillDawnFoster: to slow02:56
alt-routefor meego, would the call API dependency look like this: Qt App -> Telepathy-Qt4 -> Telepathy-Ring -> Ofono?02:58
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alt-routeeg. if I wanted to make a call in my QT app, I would use telepathy-qt4 api? or is there another set of APIs that would be even in a higher-level API than that?03:00
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altrouteis the opennfc the NFC stack for meego?07:12
altrouteis there a list of all the packages that make up a meego dist? e.g. what goes in the netbook edition vs mobile edition?07:19
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dcthangaltroute: there is :)07:32
dcthangcheck this out might help u: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.80.16.20100824.1/07:32
altroutedcthang: jackpot! thanks!07:33
dcthangwelcome altroute07:33
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qgilN900good evening stskeeps09:55
Stskeepsevening qgil09:55
qgilN900:)09:55
johnxevenin' qgilN900 :)09:55
thiago_homehi quim09:55
qgilN900I was wondering why there hasn't been any answers to http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-August/001514.html09:55
qgilN900when this was supposed to be a hot topic09:56
qgilN900lbt here?09:56
thiago_homeI guess you're preaching to the choir09:56
qgilN900???09:56
StskeepsqgilN900: i think the fact we're heading for feature freeze in meego takes energy out of people a bit :)09:57
StskeepsqgilN900: but if you're wondering if it is possible to do what you're proposing, yes, that should be possible without closed bits09:57
qgilN900fair enough, but then let's not put this topic for the CO meeting next week09:57
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qgilN900(that was what I was wondering, among other things)09:58
qgilN900... and btw stskeeps I lended an N900 with micro-sd card to romaxa09:59
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StskeepsqgilN900: excellent :)09:59
* thiago_home wonders if PR1.3 will make it easier to boot MeeGo10:00
Stskeepshopefully we should have the meego n900 on qemu images ready soon as wel10:00
Stskeepsl10:00
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qgilN900midnight here & it's been a very long day10:01
Stskeepsi'll make a response to the mail so we can continue the discussion10:01
johnxqgilN900, midnight? you hanging out in my part of the world? :)10:01
qgilN900thank you stskeeps for letting me know that my proposal was not a technical absurdity  :)10:01
qgilN900we can talk about the rest when suits you best10:02
StskeepsqgilN900: not absurd, but we might need to drag in some API people from nokia to discuss what the implications are10:02
qgilN900johnx, SF Bay Area is my home now10:02
Stskeepsbut i;ll answer and take it from there10:02
qgilN900ok10:02
johnxqgilN900, still a bit far to come visit, but if you're in Seattle stop by and I'll buy you a beer10:03
qgilN900 maybe jumping on parachute in one of the visits to Portland...10:03
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qgilN900or trying to sell MeeGo to MS?  ;)10:04
qgilN900who knows10:04
qgilN900as you see, is time to sleep for my brain  :P  tomorrow more!10:04
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vljhi11:00
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amjadhi11:02
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vljali1234: does dkms requires some patch in kernel in order to work ?11:04
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thiagono11:07
thiagodkms is about creating modules11:07
thiagoit's just a set of scripts for managing the sources, builds and binaries11:07
vljbut how it can "rebuild" a module when changing kernel ?11:07
vljI mean, how is it "aware" that the user has installed another kernel ?11:07
thiagothere's an /etc/init.d that "starts" dkms11:08
thiagothen it checks if all the installed dkms sources have their binaries compiled11:08
thiagoif they don't, then it compiles and installs11:08
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vljthat mean you have to reboot in order for dkms to rebuild any kernel module ?11:08
Bostikvlj: dkms checks from running kernel version if the module is found; if not, the sources are built and module appears in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/...11:08
thiagoyou have to reboot to start a new kernel11:08
johnxor hooks in your package management system can handle it11:08
thiagoif you're installing a new dkms package, it should compile & install the module11:09
vljso the module are not loaded at the first start of a new module right ?11:09
thiagoif it doesn't, then use the dkms script to do it11:09
vljs/module/kernel11:09
thiagodkms build -m packagename -v packageversion -k `uname -r`11:09
thiagothen repeat with install11:10
thiagoright, the kernel boots without the new packages11:10
vljso you need to reboot twice to get working kernel module ?11:10
thiagono11:10
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thiagoare you trying to replace a module that exists in the kernel? one that might be already loaded?11:10
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vljit's for the nvidia kernel module11:11
vljit does not exist in the kernel ;)11:11
thiagoas long as the nvidia module is built & installed before X starts, no problem11:11
vljok11:11
vljand for other module ?11:11
* thiago has used dkms for the nvidia kernel for 3 years11:11
vljfor instance wifi module11:11
thiagosame thing, unless you're replacing a module11:11
thiagoyou just either need to ensure that the older module doesn't get loaded, or that you can unload it and reload the new11:12
vljok11:12
thiagoor, you can also build the modules before rebooting into the kernel11:12
thiagosee the dkms command11:12
vljwhat is the command to "remove" a previous version of a kernel module ?11:13
vljI saw a "make" and a "clean" command in dkms config files11:13
vljbut nothing to remove old kernel module11:13
johnxyou might want to boot your old kernel ...11:14
thiagodkms remove11:14
johnxah, sorry. missed context11:14
* vlj would like dkms to enter meego11:14
vljdkms remove is automaticaly done when installing a new kernel ?11:14
johnxvlj, "Have to call you back. Recompiling the drivers for my cell phone."11:15
thiagoI think dkms remove is automatic when removing a kernel11:15
vljnvidia kernel module does not like to see older version of itself in a running system :)11:15
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thiagoI've done upgrades of the nvidia kernel module11:16
thiagoit requires shutting down X11:16
thiagobut I usually postpone upgrading until I'm about to reboot11:16
thiagoI rebooted last week to upgrade to 2.6.35 and then took the opportunity to upgrade to 256.4411:16
vljjohnx: I meant, for netbook version. It would allow easier management of non free kernel module11:16
vljok11:16
johnxvlj, :) I know. I just liked the mental image11:17
vlj:p11:17
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johnx(not least because I've done things like that)11:17
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arfollAnyone have any idea what could be wrong with my package? Community OBS is giving me this but the package seems extremely similar to my other ones and I definately have an rpm_build_root11:22
arfollhttp://pastebin.org/77422211:22
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vljarfoll: there is no error msg11:24
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Stskeepsmorning dneary11:26
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dnearyHi Stskeeps11:28
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Stskeepsdneary: was there a gnome conference recently where the hildon discussion was taken?11:29
arfollvlj, there is right at the end there is pipe closed11:31
arfollthat basically makes my build fail completely11:31
vljarfoll: which line ?11:32
dnearyStskeeps, There was a GNOME conference11:32
dnearyNo specific discussion of Hildon that I'm aware of11:32
Stskeepshrm, ok11:32
dnearyThe board did talk about it, but I am not privy to their discussions11:32
Stskeepsthey had discussed a session or something on gnome-mobile11:32
Stskeepsi guess it'll probably end up being lost on the floor from gnome pov then :/11:33
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dnearyStskeeps, The situation is the same though - we still need a good idea of what changes would be needed to GTK+ to allow Hildon to be a 3rd party library shipping on top of a stock GTK+11:33
Stskeepsdneary: i did do a proof of concept building hildon on top of stock gtk+ though, on meego11:33
dnearyStskeeps, I recall11:34
dnearyStskeeps, I also rememer seeing a shortish list of stuff that didn't work?11:34
Stskeepsdneary: the problem is actually the apps, which write against maemo gtk..11:34
dnearyOK11:34
dnearyAnd can we do a diff from maemo gtk+ and hildon gtk+, and maybe integrate some of the Maemo specific stuff back into Hildon?11:35
Stskeepsnot impossible11:35
Stskeepsthe issue is also that there is many widget-specific changes, i believe11:36
vljarfoll ?11:36
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Stskeepsdneary: my biggest worry is that there's not sufficient push for it and that many app developers would resort to recoding in qt instead of rewriting for 'meego-hildon'11:37
dnearyStskeeps, If we can make a shim layer (-compat) that makes it a simple recompile, we should mitigate that11:38
Stskeepsmm11:38
Stskeepsi'll take a glance at the maemo gtk+ diff11:40
arfollvlj, sorry stupid pastebin trunkated it11:41
arfollvlj, ok it's here (i cut the top bit off a little) - http://pastebin.org/77440411:42
StecchinoThe ideal MeeGo dev environment appears to be one with intel graphics. I there anyone here that is using a recent thinkpad with intel and would recommend it?11:43
vljStecchino: Meego works on nvidia hardware too :p11:43
StecchinoThere are more reasons to avoid nvidia though11:44
arfollStecchino, there are loads to avoid intel too...11:44
vljarfoll: it is probably a but within nvidia11:44
vljerr11:44
vljobs11:44
vljnot nvidia11:44
vljbug11:45
vljwell the right phrase is "it is probably a bug within obs"11:45
vljwhen launching the check-buildroot script11:45
StecchinoI'm pretty happy with my thinkpad R500 intel gfx. If the machine was just a bit thinner and lighter11:45
arfollvlj, lol that's what I was thinking but most of my other packages that are basically the same (I reuse the same spec file for the libs I have). I tried rebuilding a few and they seemed ok11:45
arfollI guess I'll wait11:45
arfollStecchino, just stay away from GMA500/600 and you'll be ok with intel gfx11:46
vljI agree with that11:46
StecchinoI'll see what I can get11:47
Stecchinothanks for the help11:47
vljgma 500 is the crappiest gfx chipset I ever have11:47
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vljon windows it can't even run properly opengl11:48
vljon linux it can't even run properly at all11:48
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vljI'm wondering why intel is pushing moorestown in Meego if they can't even ship the driver for it11:49
arfollvlj, actually it can run very well - they just have 3 different drivers11:49
arfollnone of which are fully featured11:50
dnearyStskeeps, Speak of the devil...11:50
Stskeepsmm?11:50
dnearyI just got an email of the minutes of the July 25 board meeting11:50
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vljarfoll: and none of them works on meego atm ;)11:51
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FunkyPenguinis it possible to have both googlegadgets-meego & googlegadgets-gtk together?11:51
dnearyStskeeps, http://pastebin.ca/192574111:51
Stskeepsdneary: 'With Maemo 6 and Moblin neither Qt nor GTK+ apps just work.' sounds a bit misinformed11:52
dnearyStskeeps, It sounds like a secretary's summary of a more involved discussion to me11:53
dnearyBut hey...11:53
Stskeepsmm11:53
vljarfoll: did you put a #norootbuild at the top of your spec file ?11:53
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arfollvlj, nope11:54
vljwell, you should11:54
Stskeepsmy personal view on it is that it's a hell lot of work.. i was looking at maemopad dependancies yesterday11:54
Stskeeps(the example hildon app)11:54
Stskeepsmost of those apis it required are either dead or need severe modification to fit with meego dbus11:55
Stskeepsapis11:55
arfollvlj, just #norootbuild at the top?11:55
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vljarfoll: # norootforbuild to be exact11:56
vljit might work. or not.11:57
arfollwell it's worth a shot11:57
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vljcan I have a look at your spec file ?11:58
dnearyStskeeps, For example?11:58
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Stskeepsdneary: let's start with libosso, modest, bluetooth connection dialogs..12:00
dnearymaemopad depends on modest???12:00
Stskeepsfrom Mer i know the only way for those to work well is by having it in a maemo desktop setting12:00
Stskeepsyeah, send mail :)12:00
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arfollvlj, it's not better - http://pastebin.org/774566 and the spec is here - http://pastebin.org/77457912:00
Stskeepsthere has been a lot of nasty coupling in maemo architecture12:01
arfollit only got further this time because I tried disabling some of the checks12:01
vljarfoll: remove -%(%{__id_u} -n) at the end of BuildRoot:12:01
X-FadeStskeeps: I guess it would be worthwhile to try to setup free M5 target to see how this works out.12:01
StskeepsX-Fade: at least we'd see the pain points early on12:02
arfollvlj, that makes no difference that was just me copying from one of my other specs12:02
vljand remove %{?dist} at the end of Release too ;)12:02
vljand remove rm -rf %{buildroot} in the %install spec12:02
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arfollvlj, ok12:03
X-FadeStskeeps: Yeah, I guess I'll can take a look at it.12:03
vljrm in %install is a security flaw according to obs faq12:03
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vljand %{?dist} is not defined in obs too12:03
vljarfoll: you're running it in local obs ?12:04
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arfollvlj, I should fix that in my libmicrohttpd spec then - I was just copying it from there12:05
arfollvlj, no this is on the community OBS - and the changes made no difference I still get a broken pipe error12:05
vljwell it may be a bug of obs12:06
vlj:/12:06
vljI have no clue what is the issue otherwise12:07
nazgeeis anyone experiencing problems with UX fonts on beagleboard? Most of the words/menus look totally messed - there is no way to read these. If it helps - I am using beagleboard clone (igep0020), and beagle's handset kickstart file.12:08
arfollvlj, too bad, thanks for the help anyways12:08
Stskeepsnazgee: think harbaum has same issue12:08
vljarfoll: what is you nickname in obs ?12:08
Stskeepsnazgee: could you screenshot/take a photo?12:08
arfollarfoll12:08
vljthx12:08
nazgeeStskeeps: ok, not a ptoblem12:09
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arfollvlj, ok it's looks like a community OBS problem because my rpm builds in my private OBS12:10
vljok12:11
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vljmaybe a bad worker12:11
vljor a bug in rpm12:11
vljreport it to lbt12:11
arfollok i'll do that12:11
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lbtarfoll: here is good12:12
lbtX-Fade may see it too :)12:12
arfolllbt, ok - well my package (imlib2) is in home:arfoll12:13
arfollit builds fine in my OBS, but fails with a weird pipe error12:13
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nazgeeStskeeps: here is a photo of broken fonts: http://wgrajfoto.pl/pokazfoto/img0810/dsc00132ab4b.jpg12:18
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nazgeeany help would be really appreciated ;]12:18
lbtarfoll:  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=getOutputFrom%28%29%3A+Broken+pipe12:18
nazgeei wonder if I did something wrong, or there is a problem with e.g. TI's opengl libraries12:19
arfolllbt, i've search for ages on the problem12:19
lbtbut it seems to be an rpm/spec issue - yes?12:19
Stskeepsnazgee: that looks a bit funky indeed12:19
Stskeepsnazgee: what version of sgx libs?12:19
arfolllbt, no because it builds fine in my local OBS12:19
X-FadeMight be a prjconf issue.12:19
arfollX-Fade, I have no custom prjconf12:20
nazgeeStskeeps: i had tried on 07 and 0612:20
lbtclarify "local OBS" .... we have people doing a local build and calling it "local OBS" and people with a full OBS install...12:20
arfolllbt, full OBS install12:20
nazgeespecifically: GFX_3_01_00_07_libs and GFX_3_01_00_06_libs12:20
Stskeepsnazgee: hm, odd12:21
nazgeethe only problem I had found so far is: AIGLX error: dlopen of /usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so failed (/usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)12:22
nazgeeI havent' correct it yet, though12:22
lbtarfoll: and what's the difference between your OBS and this one?12:22
lbtyou should be able to see the prjconf etc for all projects for both12:23
arfolllbt, mine has rpmlint disabled12:23
lbtand if you disable it here...12:23
arfollI could try but I figured the problem was before rpmlint12:24
lbtOK. so it's not an OBS sysadmin issue... ie diskspace etc12:25
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lbtso we need to figure out where it comes from12:25
lbtproject configuration; prj version12:25
Stskeepsif its the pipe issue, this happens on meego.com obs too..12:25
lbtStskeeps: sporadic?12:26
Stskeepsmm12:26
lbtthe : getOutputFrom(): Broken pipe12:26
Stskeepsyes12:26
lbtis it something people hit randomly ... or is it more an FAQ12:26
arfolllbt, it doesn't help to disable rpmlint12:27
Stskeepshits randomly12:27
arfollStskeeps, but it only happens on this package and all the time12:27
Stskeepsexcellent, reproducable12:27
Stskeeps:)12:27
lbtOK .. so maybe #obs arfoll12:27
vljlbt it works by me12:27
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vljlocal build of his package12:28
vljbut see12:28
vljhttps://build.obs.maemo.org/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=imlib2&project=home:vljn:branches:home:arfoll&repository=MeeGo_1.0_Core12:28
vljI branched his package12:28
vljI have the same error, but not at the same stage12:28
vljso it is an issue with remote obs12:29
vljerr sorry it is at the same stage12:29
X-FadeLet me check for OOM issues on the host.12:29
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nazgeeis there a way to neable mouse cursor easily? I am using LCD display instaead of touchscreen, and using it w/o cursor is a bit... tricky ;] I can see it when using pure X, but not when mcompositor session is used...12:33
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lbthi tekojo12:44
tekojohola!12:44
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lbthave you seen the latest thread on "Building apps which require proprietary code on the MeeGo OBS" http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-August/001507.html12:45
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lbtStskeeps: I'd missed your post12:46
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Guest90120hi12:46
Guest90120ummmm is anyone there?12:47
Guest90120look i know you're all busy and stuff but hello?12:47
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tekojolbt sure I saw it12:51
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Stskeepslbt: ah, you missed my post before sending yours?12:53
lbtyes12:53
lbtI think this is more a community/social issue though12:53
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Stskeepsit is a difficult one as you (likely) wouldn't want to build your gtk apps against m6 or meego, but what would peak your interest would be building qt apps for all three12:54
lbtyes12:55
lbtand the fact that after 6 months of building gtk apps on OBS for fremantle12:55
lbtit's a "click" to upload a "lets see about meego then" test12:55
lbtversus a complete learning experience12:55
Stskeepsso, hrm12:55
Stskeepsit is possible to make a m5 compatible target without the closed source..12:56
lbtwho cares... I really don't see the problem anymore? No one is actually complaining12:56
lbtit's all "someone might"12:56
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lbtwell, we've shouted about it now... we've raised it to the CO12:57
Stskeepsare we speaking about the closed source or some other item? :P12:57
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lbtclosed bits12:57
Kamyk_^hello all :)12:57
Kamyk_^I have one question - Did somebody install MeeGo on webdt DT-366 Tablet?12:57
Stskeepslo Kamyk_^12:57
StskeepsKamyk_^: what kind of processor is it?12:58
Kamyk_^AMD Geodeâ„¢ GX 53312:58
lbtStskeeps: my point is... we seem to be holding back because of what might happen...12:58
Kamyk_^it could be so old?12:58
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arfolllbt, isn't that why people always hold back?12:58
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StskeepsKamyk_^: amd geode doesn't have SSSE3 so it won't work :/12:58
lbtarfoll: heh12:58
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Kamyk_^Stskeeps: MeeGo need SSSE3?12:59
StskeepsKamyk_^: right12:59
lbtarfoll: we can now say "we asked for objections"12:59
Kamyk_^Stskeeps: Do you know some Tables with SSSE3?12:59
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arfolllbt, I'm pretty sure pure Free Software people have allready run away from the Intel/Nokia Meego13:00
Stskeepslbt: the question is also if this is meant to replace maemo.org extras or not..13:00
lbtI'd say we now discuss it at CO level and propose to the TSG that we have done due-dilligence to identigy objections and now we "JFDI"13:00
lbtStskeeps: yes13:00
lbtfor harmattan - certainly13:00
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lbtand so it makes sense to migrate extras too... but we can't plan that until we know if this is an option13:01
Kamyk_^I found page with: MeeGo on nonSSSE3 x86 Hardware13:02
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Kamyk_^It could be in future?13:03
Stskeepsmy personal opinion: show that with double packaging you can triple-compile your meego api app for m5, m6 -- cos that was the benefit we wanted to show by putting these things together, wasn't it? and to ease migration/differences between platforms13:03
Stskeepsm5 users win as they get new programs that would ordinarily only have gone for meego/m613:04
timelessis there an url describing this double packaging?13:04
Jaffatimeless: Presumably it's a .spec file for RPM and a debian/ dir for DEB13:04
timelesshow does one maintain this?13:05
Stskeepstimeless: ideally qt sdk would write it13:05
timelessdoes something magically convert one way or the other?13:05
Stskeepsif done right, there shouldn't be much difference13:06
timelesshave you spoken to them?13:06
JaffaStskeeps: i.e. from Qt SDK's .pro file or whatevrer?13:06
StskeepsJaffa: for example13:06
JaffaStskeeps: I doubt it does at the moment, though. And I bet it doesn't handle XSBC-Bugtracker, XB-Maemo-Icon-26 etc. Or exciting things like triggers.13:06
Kamyk_^lbt: can you tell me somethings about install MeeGo on non intel hardware?13:07
StskeepsJaffa: noone says that can't be added. i mean, spectacle retains changes in .spec across re-spectacle's for example13:07
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lbtKamyk_^: not in general terms. The wiki is a good place to start. There is lots there13:09
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Kamyk_^lbt: oki thx13:11
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Stskeepslbt: besides that, we have a load of packages in Mer that's very usable for our free-fremantle-api13:11
lbtyeah... but this is about semi-official support for Fremantle13:12
lbtI think the answer to "freedom" is MeeGo13:12
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timelesshave you guys spoken to the MADE people?13:12
lbtnot "lets hack at fremantle some more"13:12
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lbttimeless: do they hang about on the official meego chan?13:13
timelessdunno13:13
lbtheh13:13
timelessi've only really done f2f talks13:13
Stskeepslbt: they do, and publish minutes of meetings13:13
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* timeless gave them a todo list13:14
timelessthey watched as i struggled through most of their product13:14
timelessand we took notes :)13:14
lbtStskeeps: OK ... I don't hear much about it other than the meetings13:16
Stskeepslbt: #meego-sdk, was advertised in the toolchain meeting13:16
timelessstskeeps: do they have easy to find wiki pages?13:17
Stskeepstimeless: /SDK13:17
lbtbbl8r13:18
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sivugnnhnh13:20
sivuhow can i make obs to publish rpms in :full13:21
X-Fadesivu: Tick the 'publish' box on your project?13:21
sivux-fade, i mean the rpm files not build by the obs but existing in :full for dependency resolving13:21
sivuif i symlink those to the published directory, they get removed after obs publishes next self built rpm13:22
X-Fadesivu: bs_admin --rescan-repositor13:22
JaffaStskeeps: The moment the dev has to touch packaging for the target OS'es conventions (e.g. icons, bug trackers & homepages), the cross-platform promise of Qt is lost.13:22
sivurescan doesnt do it13:22
X-Fadesivu: Ah, don't export to that repo.13:22
X-Fadesivu: Use the binary import repo as target.13:23
X-Fadesivu: You can even make it a subproject?13:23
sivuah, yes13:24
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messertingHi, in MicroB, is there any shortcut key to jump to the end of an internett page? Like "ctrl-end" or somehing? maemo/N900.14:00
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creebefuHi14:57
Stskeepshi14:57
creebefuI don't know if anyone can help me... I'm trying to install Meego on my Asus Eee.14:57
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creebefuI've put the image file on a USB Stick using unetbootin, which has worked fine.14:58
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zsuse dd for that14:58
creebefuIt boots into it fine,  loads the relevant files, then gives me options to boot, install etc.14:58
creebefuWhichever option I use, this comes up..14:58
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creebefuwarning: cannot find root file system14:58
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nialahello,14:59
creebefucreate symlink /dev/root and then exit this shell to continue the boot sequence14:59
creebefuhi14:59
creebefuwhat's dd?14:59
zscreebefu: dd if=/meego_image of=/your/device bs=409614:59
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creebefuwhere do I type this ?15:00
zsin terminal15:00
zswhat distro do you have?15:01
creebefuI'm currently running ubuntu netbook edition15:01
zsso open gnome-terminal or xterm :P15:01
creebefuwhat do I put in place of /meego_image ?15:02
creebefuand /your/device ?15:02
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creebefuI do apologise, I'm a n00b :d15:02
nialamaybe you can type 'mount' in your term if your usbkey is already mounted to see what device15:04
zscreebefu: type fdisk -l15:04
Bostikhave any of you tried to override shlibs versions in OBS builds (for debian package) by using debian/shlibs.local ?15:04
Bostikbecause either I'm doing it wrong or OBS worker somehow ignores the file; the thing does work as intended in normal builds15:05
nialacreebefu, meego_image must be replace by image you have downoaded15:07
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creebefuok thank you15:10
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creebefushould my usb drive be formatted as fat32 or something else?15:11
zsdont bother just use this command :)15:12
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nialawhy that's don't work?: find . -name 'gpk-*' -exec rename 's/./gpk-/a/' {} \;15:14
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nialai ll also try " instead of ' but that do nothing15:16
creebefuit can't open the image file15:17
creebefudo i have to put the img file somewhere specifically?15:17
zscreebefu: where is your image15:18
creebefudesktop15:18
nialaare you in good repertory ?15:18
creebefui've just called it meego.img15:18
zsright but what is your username?15:18
creebefucreebefu15:18
nialamay be you must be root15:18
zsdd if=/home/your_username/Desktop/meego.img of=/dev/sdb bs=4096 <-- it could be something like this15:19
nialabe care if it's not sdb15:19
creebefuyea it is sbd115:20
zsthat's why I asked him for fdisk -l15:20
creebefuright, now it says permission denied15:20
zsbe root then15:20
zssudo su -15:20
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creebefufs, now it says no space left on device..., which is not true, as the device is 8GB15:23
creebefugr15:23
creebefuwell it's copied something, imma try it15:23
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zsuse sbd instead of sbd115:26
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creebefuah ok15:27
spyrohey folks,15:28
spyrodoes anyone know if it is possible to get a session proposal modified ?15:28
spyro(for the meego conf)15:28
creebefuzs: still says no space left on device and has only copied 516 mb when the img file is 800mb15:30
Stskeepsspyro: yes, you have until tomorrow sometime15:30
Stskeepsi thnk15:30
Stskeepsoh15:30
Stskeepsmodified15:30
Stskeepshrm15:30
Stskeepsis there an 'edit' button?15:30
Stskeeps:P15:30
spyroStskeeps: I didnt submit it, and the person who did seems to be having trouble modifying it15:30
zscreebefu: pm me fdisk -l15:30
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nialawhy taht don't work?  find . -name 'gpk-*' -exec rename 's/./gpk-/a/' {} \;15:45
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jgarethello, i am trying meego on a touch only device (archos 9) I've successfully built an image thanks to this source (http://www.openaos.org/archives/508). The only thing missing is a touch keyboard (better if it opens automatically in any text fields, like with handsets)15:50
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jgaretis there something like that in meego ? I guess it might be in handset UX but I hardly find documentation on what is needed to have the handset UI working (other than using an already built img for Aava device (which won't work in my case)15:52
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pavlixjgaret: you could probably build an image for handet, just as you built the image you have15:56
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jgaretpavlix, do you know where is the documentation on the binary packages for handset ? (to know their names)15:58
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jgaretor some kind of debian tasks to install all needed packages16:01
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jgaretsorry, found them in patterns.xml in the repo16:03
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spyrodoes anyone know if it is possible to get a session proposal modified ?16:16
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Stskeepsfile a bug16:16
X-FadeDoesn't seem possible, no.16:17
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pavlixjgaret: fine, I don't know much yet, anyway :)16:21
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jgaretpavlix: that's ok for me, I'm not really used to rpm package (more using deb) but I'm giving my first try, time to build the image with handset infos and I'll try to boot it ;-)16:23
jgaretwhat's the current version of meego ? 1.0.80 or 1.0 ?16:24
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Stskeeps.8016:26
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jgaretStskeeps : thanks16:28
pavlixjgaret: rpm packaging is very easy16:29
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jniqhi people! Should there be a zypp/er talk at the next meego conference, what would those of you comming there like it to be about? Any special subjects?17:29
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Stskeepsi'd like to hear about zypper at least, cos i don't know much about it17:29
Stskeepsincluding scriptability and other things17:29
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jniqStskeeps: alright, that would be an overview with i bit of focus on scriptability, great! any other ideas?17:32
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Stskeepswell, api and why it's better than yum or apt-get, naturally ;p17:33
RST38hIt is better than yum or apt-get because its authors did not like yum or apt-get, of course17:34
jniqheh :O)17:34
StskeepsRST38h: currently, we have both yum and zypper17:35
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Stskeepswhy exactly this is, i have no idea.17:35
RST38hStskeeps: yes, I know17:35
nazgeeThis was asked here once (and received some feedback) but it actually led me to nowhere... Is anyone experiencing some problems with fonts dislplay on beagleboard? It looks like this: http://wgrajfoto.pl/pokazfoto/img0810/dsc00132ab4b.jpg17:35
Stskeepsnazgee: there's a bug report about thi17:35
Stskeepssearch for garbled17:35
nazgeeand I have no idea what is causing this behavior17:35
nazgeeStskeeps: thx17:35
RST38hStskeeps: You should also include yast and yast2 for completeness17:35
jniqStskeeps: http://www.listware.net/201006/meego-dev/68116-meego-dev-package-management-in-meego.html17:35
* Ronksu needs to find a display to start playing with beagleboard17:35
Stskeepsah17:36
Stskeepsnazgee: initial reaction is SGX core differences to the SDK you're using, maybe17:36
Stskeepsnazgee: out of curiousity, where in .pl are you from?17:36
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Stskeepsjniq: you might know this.. if a package requires: foo.so, and at same time provides it itself, will zypper/yum figure this out17:40
Stskeeps?17:40
nazgeeWroclaw17:40
Stskeepsk17:40
Stskeepsfrom warsaw here, living in poland, but originally from .dk :P17:40
kristian_mall the download on http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Emulator_QEMU seem to be brocken. where can i get a working qemu? - or does any qemu do?17:41
RST38hthe message at this page says "Note: This page is under construction. Most links point to internal servers until July 31, 2010"17:42
RST38hWhich appears to be pretty explanatory17:42
Stskeepsi think they're on a different package now17:43
Stskeepspage17:43
RST38hNobody updated it AT LEAST since July 3117:43
Stskeepshttp://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_QEMU17:43
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jniqStskeeps: it's a bit unusual (why would you want it), but i guess zypper would not mind it :O) I/you can ask mls@suse.de to be sure - he's the author of the sat solver zypp uses.17:44
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Stskeepsjniq: someone screwing up somewhere in history so we need some odd packaging :P17:44
jniqi see :O)17:45
jniqDon't know about yum at all though...17:45
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Stskeepswell, i'll know tomorrow when everything catches fire ;)17:45
nazgeeStskeeps: I am using OMAP3530- would you suggest manually rebuilding SGX libraries (against my kernel), then manually installing it on rootfs, and finally trying again? Or should I wait for bug being investigated?17:46
nazgeebtw- warsaw is not a place where I'd like to live ;]17:47
Stskeepshehe. i'm fine here ;) nearby airport, easy to escape17:48
Stskeepsnazgee: doubt you can rebuild them unless you have some hard-to-buy source access :) does the SDK match with OMAP3530 ?17:49
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nazgeeStskeeps: I believe that it does17:50
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nazgeeStskeeps: I am near the airport too, but there is nowhere to go. They are everywhere ;]17:51
Stskeepshehe17:51
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th3hateStskeeps, is it worth getting class 10 mmc for meego?18:03
Stskeepsth3hate: not sure, i'm thinking to get it myself..18:03
Stskeepsjust to see the impact18:03
X-FadeClass 6 over class 4 made quite a difference for me.18:04
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X-FadeIf the step to class 10 is even greater, then it would be really nice.18:05
th3hatethe difference is significant nitdroid, it also eliminates heating issues18:05
th3hatein nitdroid*18:05
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th3hateStskeeps, you think it would be possible to boot meego's image from eMMC in the future?18:06
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MohammadAG51rsync to eMMC then boot18:09
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MohammadAG51can't see a reason it can't be done18:09
th3hateMohammadAG51, it wont touch maemo?18:10
th3hateno need to partition the emmc?18:10
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MohammadAG51you have to partition the eMMC18:10
th3hatethere's always a risk of losing the files on it18:11
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th3hateif class is not written on mmc it's probably class 2 ?18:13
Duckbootth3hate: Probs - yes.18:14
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th3hateDuckboot, Nokia 2 GB microSD MU-3718:17
th3hateany idea what class?18:17
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Stskeepsi wonder if i can even buy class 6/10 here..18:20
RST38hStskeeps: probably can, at twice the price :)18:21
th3hateeMMC is class 16 afaik18:22
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RST38heh?18:22
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Stskeepsth3hate: figure out if we can do root=LABEL=root without having a initrd18:27
Stskeeps:P18:27
th3hatein grub.conf ?18:27
Stskeepsno18:28
Stskeepsthis is a kernel command line :)18:28
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th3hateStskeeps, you tell me.. can we :P?18:29
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Stskeepsdunno18:29
Stskeeps:P18:29
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odin_found a hotel for Nov under the shadow of Aviva for 61EUR/night, 9.99EUR/breakfast, 3EUR/hour parking while outside of your reservation www.grandcanalhotel.ie18:31
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Stskeeps'grand' usually is a bad sign ;)18:31
odin_hehe... photos on website look good enough for meh18:32
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odin_the 61EUR/night/room is using a 3day 25% discount scheme18:32
odin_just deciding if I should get a car for 80EUR for the 3 days, I bet 2 taxi fares to airport would be over half that18:35
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odin_skip the car, 7.5mil from airport, just hope I can fight my way past football supporters on Wed 17th to get to airport 2h25m after planned closing time18:41
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chakiedriving in dublin is not too much fun18:51
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odin_canned the driving idea did not seem much cost/convenience in it, is RyanAir much fun ?  I wonder.... seems to have the monopoly for me, ah well all booked now18:54
Stskeepsit's about as fun as travelling in a packed van with geese18:55
Stskeepscheap, but it goes thereafter18:55
Stskeeps:P18:55
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odin_well this shall be my first lepricon flight with the infamous budget airline, hope I get a seat with that  (yes he is promoting standing room only flights to the regulators!)18:57
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Termanaodin_: to be sure to be sure18:58
odin_what was that ?   "take my own seat", I hear ?  I didn't see the seat in the surcharges so I guess I must lols18:59
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odin_can't complain the price is right, think my luggage is getting a window seat though (it has a more expensive ticket)19:02
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CosmoHillhey lcuk19:10
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devmodHello, I am trying to run meego for netbooks on linux with an nvidia card, it keeps on crashing after the gray screen on a GLX error (BadMatch (Invalid parameter attributes) Any ideas how to get this working? The handset version works just fine on the same machine19:52
devmod(Qemu approach)19:52
CosmoHillI don\t think meego supports nvidia yet19:52
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devmodNot natively but for developers apparently it should work. The same release for handset works on Qemu on thje same machine19:53
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lbtwoo!! conversation on the MeeGo/Maemo apps building \o/19:55
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DawnFosterlbt: :)19:57
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DawnFosterlbt: I really am trying to get an answer for you19:57
lbtDawnFoster: I know... thank you :)19:58
lbtI'm hoping we can get to the point where we say "look, this makes sense. No one minds. Lets recommend it as a JFDI to the TSG."20:00
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DawnFosterI'm hoping that we can just resolve it without taking it to the TSG20:01
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DawnFosterI emailed Imad / Valtteri to see whether they need to see it at the TSG or not20:01
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lbtDawnFoster: that'll do. A general comment at some kind of "community representation body" would be good though.20:03
lbtI'm happy for it to be the "CO"20:03
Stskeepslbt: i think the problem of that might be that IT doesn't seem to be under CO anymore (i think?)20:04
lbtJaffa: you know about community representation...20:04
Jaffalbt: Which community? :-/20:04
lbtStskeeps: I would be OK for this to be a "the community, as represented by the CO, doesn't mind"20:04
lbtJaffa: MeeGo20:04
Stskeepseither way20:04
Stskeepsthe question just has to be answered somehow and rubberstamped20:05
Jaffalbt: In the absence of any other body to represent the MeeGo community it either has to be the CO, or the TSG.20:05
DawnFosterstskeeps: but it really isn't an IT issue as much as a policy issue20:05
StskeepsDawnFoster: ah, true20:05
Jaffalbt: The TSG will have it go on an agenda and then go "oh, we don't understand, can we discuss it again later"20:05
lbtJaffa: exactly20:05
Jaffa</cynic>20:05
lbtso I want the CO to say "Say yes"20:05
lbtand have prepared some material20:05
lbtsay "it's done the rounds twice with no serious dissent"20:06
Jaffalbt: So, for day-to-day representations of the community, the CO is what we've got. If it has to go to the TSG, the CO should represent the community opinion. And so far, no one in the community has raised any objections AFAICS20:06
lbt"in our opinion"20:06
DawnFosterto be clear, I've contacted Imad, Valtteri, Ibrahim and Quim to see if there are any objections20:06
DawnFosterand asked if it should be handled by CO or TSG20:06
JaffaSo if the CO isn't - or doesn't feel empowered to make the call - it can make represent the views of the community.20:06
Stskeeps:nod: let's wait on the indication from there then20:07
DawnFosterif there aren't any objections and it doesn't need to go to the TSG, we'll approve it20:07
lbtexcellent20:07
DawnFosterif there are objections, then it will probably be escalated to TSG20:07
JaffaDawnFoster: Coool.20:07
Jaffa-o20:07
lbtthen we can actually start to plan Maemo->MeeGo migrations20:07
DawnFosterpersonally, I'm OK with it, but my email was designed to make sure that people really understood the implications of the decisions.20:08
JaffaInterestingly, this seems to highlight again the need for a body to condense the community opinion, as the CO - from what you've said (DawnFoster) - is just saying "this is an issue, what do you think?"; rather than "this is an issue, the community thinks X; what do you think?"20:08
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lbtit was a good summary DawnFoster20:08
Jaffa(Maybe not "highlight again", just plain "highlights [for the first time]"20:08
lbtie "we need a council"20:09
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* Stskeeps doesn't personally see the need for a council, except maybe a 'union' of non-company-affiliated contributors20:09
Stskeeps:P20:09
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j-bIs OpenMax IL available on MeeGo?20:10
lbtStskeeps: what does it do in maemo?20:10
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Stskeepslbt: what does what do?20:10
lbtcouncil20:10
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devmod\20:10
Stskeepslbt: not the best person to get to answer that question..20:11
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lbtheh... well, your description isn't *that* far off.20:11
lbtthough a tad ... coloured20:11
lbtI think MeeGo still needs some way to channel input from "the masses" if it is to be more than a corporate coalition20:12
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StskeepsDawnFoster: one thing i wondered the other day (and what we're a bit guilty of ourselves even in meego n900) - outside l10n, co, do we have any people who are officially part of any teams/wgs/whatever and not paid/in some linked contractual relationship with either intel or nokia?20:13
Stskeepslike, in the actual meego product20:14
lbtbut... I'm off to gym... l8r and thanks for the ml comments20:14
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Stskeepslbt: enjoy20:14
DawnFosternot sure: I have a hard time figuring out who Nokia is paying :)20:14
DawnFostermy guess is not yet20:14
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DawnFosterwe do have a lot of people contributing who aren't at Intel / Nokia20:15
DawnFosterGreg-kh and others from Novell for example.20:15
Stskeepsyeah, novell counts i guess20:15
DawnFosterand some patches from people like timeless20:15
DawnFoster(outside of his day job - for fun)20:15
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DawnFosteronce people start contributing more significantly, we can start nominating more people to named roles20:16
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Stskeepsi hope the obs upgrade coming up will help to some degree, as people can do anonymous viewing of the project20:16
DawnFosterthat's why I've been spending so much time putting together contribution guidelines and trying to help people find out how to contribute20:16
Stskeepsand perhaps easier submit requests/patches and such20:16
StskeepsDawnFoster: yeah - really been a good job by you :)20:17
DawnFosterhttp://meego.com/about/contribution-guidelines20:17
DawnFosterI've added an escalation process (as you know) :)20:17
DawnFosterthanks!20:17
Stskeepseven though it seems like the memo about signed-off-by didn't get around to everybody ;)20:17
DawnFosterI think he was distracted or in need of coffee :)20:17
JaffaStskeeps: lbt is right - that's basically a definition of the council: a way of abstracting and forming a view of the masses so it can be represented in one go to "someone else"20:17
StskeepsDawnFoster: yeah, same with me on mondays :)20:18
JaffaStskeeps: For example, if the CO were to make a recommendation to the TSG of "what the community thinks", how long will DawnFoster wait for replies on the issue? :-)20:18
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* Jaffa 's never entirely been able to work out who Nokia's paying to work on maemo*.org*, and that's supposed to be under the council's purview20:18
StskeepsJaffa: if dawn's fairly the same kind of character as quim as a community manager, issues don't just disappear into a black box without reminders :P20:19
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DawnFosterI just don't see "the community" as something separate that needs a council20:20
DawnFosterwe are all part of the community20:20
DawnFosterit seems redundant20:20
DawnFosterI understand it for Maemo20:20
DawnFosterbut don't see how it really applies to MeeGo20:20
JaffaDawnFoster: So _will_ the CO make recommendations?20:21
DawnFosterwe've set up a more robust governance model with working groups, the Linux Foundation and more20:21
JaffaStskeeps: ...and Quim found the council useful for gathering "what the community thinks"20:21
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DawnFosterJaffa: if we are all part of the community, we see it first hand and don't need for it to be gathered.20:22
JaffaDawnFoster: I keep hearing LF mentioned as part of the solution; how does the LF umbrella help represent developer issues with the community OBS; or packaging requirements or ...20:22
DawnFosterJaffa: depends on the request20:22
DawnFosterJaffa: the LF owns all of the infrastructure for example. Server purchases, hosting, etc.20:22
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JaffaDawnFoster: qgil's part of the Maemo community but doesn't do day-to-day development on Maemo, so doesn't feel the impact of the issues of the decisions taken around, say, maemo.org Extras20:23
DawnFosterJaffa: that's where it's different. The people doing day to day development are in the community20:23
JaffaDawnFoster: As they are in Maemo20:23
JaffaDawnFoster: I'm talking about people writing third party apps for the platform20:23
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JaffaDawnFoster: Whether there are similar issues for people developing the platform is not something we know yet20:24
DawnFosterif the development is happening in the open, and everyone is participating in the same community, the "community" isn't really something separate.20:26
StskeepsDawnFoster: i think it's a historic thing.. even in maemo.org nokians were part of community and there was a seperation between those that had commit (and company affiliation) and not.. there was literally no people without affiliation that had commit to anything, and those that contributed got hired ;) so i think the black box of development is what many people fear again..20:26
DawnFosteryeah, and that isn't the way we are set up20:27
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DawnFosterthat's why I think the council made sense for Maemo, but I think that MeeGo is different20:27
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Stskeepsit is, once we get to the point of discussions being properly in the open, hence my point about the union of unaffiliated to push the issues they see as blockers for this goal :P20:28
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Stskeepsbut thinking about that..20:28
Stskeepsopenness metabug is a better way to do that20:28
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GeneralAntillesI still think there's validity in a body that's elected and not beholden to managers.20:30
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GeneralAntillesFrankly, there's a lot of talk, but we'll see how it actually works out in practice.20:30
Stskeepson the other hand, a well voted bug on a issue seems more representative to me, than people speaking on my behalf..20:34
Stskeepsoften more indicative of hot topics20:34
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JaffaStskeeps: Perhaps20:34
JaffaDawnFoster: You might be right, it might be that we don't need a council for MeeGo in the future.20:35
JaffaHowever, we're not in that position now.20:35
Jaffa(Not that I'm suggesting a council to act as a transition until that open collaborative community exists)20:36
DawnFosterI'd rather work to fix any issues than put something temporary in place that will need to be disbanded later20:36
JaffaOf course20:36
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GAN900I see a need for a body outside of the likely cronyism of meritocracy and as somebody to represent unaffiliated contributors (beyond just devs)20:37
DawnFosterI'd rather have people escalate any tangible issues - I tried to contribute x and couldn't because of y20:37
GAN900But my focus isn't in platform or application development20:38
DawnFosterwhat have you tried to contribute and what was the issue (I need specifics to fix things)20:39
StskeepsGAN900: well, that's where i would feel CO steps in to some degree, kinda like how quim manages the openness metabug - pokes people to do the right thing20:39
Stskeepsif something's being slowed due to it's a corporate hot potato, it reflects badly on the project and is a press disaster, so it would probably not happen :P20:40
JaffaStskeeps: Riiiight.20:41
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Jaffa:-/20:41
StskeepsJaffa: something's = a openness metabug20:41
Stskeeps:P20:41
GAN900DawnFoster, experience and expertise based on the 5 years I've been involved in maemo.org - the issues have been a general lack of response, stonewalling and an overall feeling of frustration and impotence.20:41
DawnFosterI spend a lot of my time poking people to make sure that things happen20:41
GAN900Perhaps that's a personal problem, though. ;)20:41
JaffaStskeeps: There are other things corporate overlords can do which reflect badly on the project which won't trouble Nokia or Intel's PR machine.20:42
DawnFosterexample: I escalated timeless' requests on the mxr.meego.com to get it taken care of before his vacation20:43
JaffaStskeeps: Takes a lot of pissed off developers to make it into the Financial Times (especially for a niche, catch-up platform)20:43
GAN900I think the fact that most of the Maemo community's major core contributors are burntout and disaffected (unless they're paid) is an indicator of problems.20:43
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StskeepsGAN900: well, we did have quite a brain drain of people contributing => finding a job20:43
JaffaSaying "we won't have those problems" can seem a little... optimistic.20:43
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JaffaActually, that's unfair. I'm sure we'll have whole new problems.20:44
Stskeepsand now we get to feel the fun of a feature freeze..20:44
JaffaWhich might be avoidable; so we constantly have to question practices and assumptions.20:44
DawnFosterbut look at it from my perspective. I can continue to make improvements to make things better as a whole, but I can't solve years of frustration coming over from Maemo20:45
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GAN900DawnFoster, you can, perhaps, avoid contributing to it, however. :)20:45
DawnFosterI can work on specific issues, make improvements to processes and escalate things20:45
Stskeepsyeah, we need professional psych help for those years :P20:45
Stskeepsafter getting MeeGo onto ARM i've learnt to assume oversight instead of malice though when getting really odd pushback :P20:46
Stskeepseverything's not always a corporate agenda20:46
JaffaStskeeps: Of course20:46
DawnFosterGAN900: that isn't really fair (and I think you know that)20:46
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JaffaI think it'll be interesting to imagine (and see) the day when there are at least two unaffiliated people on the CO; and how they got there; and how the "community" (and it's still not clear whether that'll extend as far as it does in Maemo, rather than fragmented, vendor-specific areas)20:47
GAN900DawnFoster, when the kneejerk response to people wanting to test MeeGo on their Nvidia devices is "Why should Intel have to support its competitors?!" there's a problem.20:48
StskeepsGAN900: people did actually get meego running on nvidia instead of discussing it first20:49
Stskeeps:P20:49
GAN900DawnFoster, so there's a specific issue you can work on. Tempering the response of your devs.20:49
ali1234Stskeeps: largely one guy... not much point to discuss with himself :)20:50
GAN900Because an environment like that doesn't exactly bring in contributors by the dozens.20:50
StskeepsGAN900: that does also relate to doubt and uncertainty of how things are actually cooked up to be included in meego, though20:50
* GAN900 switching to GPRS.20:50
Stskeepswhich is an issue that's improving20:50
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DawnFosterand do you think that I don't talk to developer privately when they say something they shouldn't?20:51
DawnFosterI do this all the time20:51
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DawnFosterthe reality is that what hundreds of developers say is out of my control20:51
DawnFosterI can (and do) provide coaching20:51
StskeepsDawnFoster: thanks for doing that - us developers can get really riled up at times about issues20:52
GAN900back20:52
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GAN900Stskeeps, resend last highlight?20:53
Stskeepshttp://pastebin.com/QL74VBTc20:54
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JaffaDawnFoster: One thing which would definitely help in those circumstances is someone else clarifying that that's not the position of X, Y and the project. In a diplomatic way, of course.20:58
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GAN900Stskeeps, thanks.21:04
GAN900DawnFoster, well, good to know, thanks.21:04
GAN900But perhaps it's also an opportunity to a nice blog post about how to go about getting things contributed that you want supported.21:05
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DawnFosterI did just put this together http://meego.com/about/contribution-guidelines21:05
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DawnFosterand we had a discussion about it in meego-dev21:06
DawnFostera blog post would be good, too21:06
DawnFostermaybe next week21:06
DawnFosterI'm plotting some other changes to add more mailing lists21:06
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DawnFosterhttp://wiki.meego.com/Community_communication21:06
GAN900Things I can summarize on mwkn.net are helpful.21:06
DawnFosterI'm planning to send it out to meego-dev today21:07
DawnFosterand I need to work on some other documentation to go with it21:07
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StskeepsDawnFoster: we should probably have some irc guidelines, or just basic generic ones at some point21:10
DawnFosteryep21:10
DawnFosterand mailing list guidelines21:10
DawnFostergood point21:10
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Stskeepsthere was one topic that was up the other week, which was regarding discussions of leaks from companies involved in meego, how that lessens the ability of people to engage in what's essentially their workplace here..21:13
DawnFosteryeah, that's a tricky one.21:14
DawnFosteron the one hand, we don't want to be too control freaky about what people can talk about21:15
DawnFosterbut your point is really valid21:15
DawnFosterI think he was surprised that the whole channel went silent when we started talking about it :)21:15
GAN900Just send them to ##meego.21:17
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GAN900DawnFoster, anyway, I just hope you're aware of the perception problems MeeGo has in the Maemo Community and the frustrations many of those contributors are facing.21:17
GAN900Whether or not you can do anything about it, I at least hope you keep them in mind.21:18
DawnFosterGAN900: I am aware of it, but I can only do so much21:18
* Stskeeps is seeing people slowly migrating though21:19
DawnFosterand I think Quim is more focused on the Maemo / MeeGo transition21:19
Stskeepsi mean, RST38h is looking at qt :)21:19
ali1234Stskeeps: yeah 6 months ago he was all "i'll never use a gui toolkit!!"21:19
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Stskeepsso change is happening21:19
Stskeepsand with the weekly n900 images, more people are poking about and trying it out, seeing it grow21:20
timophpeople are getting qobject_casted21:20
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GAN900I'm worried we've already lost a huge potention contribution base, though.21:21
StskeepsGAN900: in app development, maybe, in system development, i think we've gained21:21
JaffaStskeeps: If I've got to learn a new API, why not go to Android; which still has better developer tooling (though Nokia have, finally, been massively investing in that)21:21
JaffaStskeeps: No-one runs a system because it's a nice system though (except lkml readers)21:21
JaffaAnd RMS21:22
StskeepsJaffa: it's over a year ago since it was said that maemo was turning to qt and gtk+ would be community supported..21:22
ali1234why the false dichotomy? anyone sensible is interested in supporting as many different platforms as possible21:22
Stskeepsit's not like it comes as a surprise that things may change, especially with the summit saying harmattan platform was -very- cleaned up :P21:23
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GAN900ali1234, from whose perspective.21:33
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ali1234mine. who elses?21:33
GAN900As an individual contributor, I'm not interested in doing anything for a platform I'm not involved in.21:34
GAN900Why would I do things for MeeGo if I own an Android device?21:34
GAN900Only so much free time. ;)21:34
ali1234oh, i see. i meant fromthe point of view of someone writing applications21:34
ali1234the default position for someone like that is going to be android or ios, or more likely both. there is absolutely no chance of meego "poaching" them. the best you can hope for is that they *also* target meego.21:35
thiago_homeif the Atoms are 64-bit, why are we building MeeGo in 32-bit mode?21:37
ali1234thiago_home: only a handful are 64 bit21:38
ali1234just like only a handful support vx21:38
thiago_homeso not all?21:38
thiago_homeI see21:38
thiago_homeali1234: well, we want to capture you for MeeGo by bribing you with Symbian21:38
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thiago_homeyou know, 120 million devices21:38
ali1234symbian, yeah. no gtk on symbian... that's good enough reason to use Qt over gtk imo21:39
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thiago_homeand by the segments where Android and iOS don't compete21:39
thiago_homeIVI, STB, netbook21:39
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ali1234at the end of the day "segments" don't mean anything, i just want my (hypothetical) app in as many app stores as possible21:40
thiago_homeif that's the case, then you want to do the least amount of development possible21:40
ali1234correct21:40
thiago_homehttp://cutehacks.com/2010/08/23/the-mobile-market-and-qt-featured-on-slideshare-net/21:41
ali1234as long as the effort required is not greater than what i stand to gain from it, then i would port to any appstore going, no matter what segment it was aimed at21:41
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ali1234imo the effort required for maemo was way to high21:41
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ali1234but like you said, Qt brings symbian support, that means the potential rewards are much higher21:42
ali1234but i am not going to pick one specific platform and pour all my effort into it21:43
ali1234"don't put all your eggs in one basket" as they say21:43
thiago_homeyeah21:43
ScottishDuckI'll put my egg wherever I want21:43
ScottishDuckit's a free country21:44
ali1234i see what you did there...21:44
ScottishDuckalso, I don't like the system having gtk and qt at the same time21:44
thiago_homethere isn't much more with gtk in the non-netbook segments21:45
thiago_homeeven moblin was phasing gtk out in favour of clutter-based apps21:46
ali1234i don't "like" it but i don't dislike it either, and if i one had to go, well, that's a no brainer...21:46
* thiago_home doesn't have anything against gtk21:46
thiago_homeI just have more in favour of Qt, but all the success to gtk too21:47
ScottishDuckI like gtk for desktop21:47
ScottishDuckbut if you're on a mobile platform, stick to only QT21:47
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JaffaStskeeps: The definitions of "community supported" for Qt & Hildon seem to be very different; and qgil's comments on the thread about community OBS & "supported" APIs leads me to question Hildon's viability (not discounting your excellent work at getting it working on vanilla Gtk+)22:21
merbotJaffa: i'm already questioning viability of hildon in a meego context22:22
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Stskeepser..22:23
Stskeepsyes, what merbot said22:23
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StskeepsDawnFoster: i have some problems with my logger bot for some of the other #meego* channels, will be down for tonight while i work on a solution, should be back up tomorrow hopefully.23:01
Stskeeps(just fyi)23:01
DawnFosterok, as long as no one say anything interesting, we should be fine :)23:01
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tyan_Just tried latest Meego coderop on N900 but it will not boot kickstart file sudo flasher-3.5 -l -b -k meego-handset-armv7l-n900-nokia-proprietary-1.0.80.16.20100824.1.ks23:04
tyan_23:04
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Stskeepsmikecomputing: you're trying to boot a text file :) you'll want to boot the vmlinuz after dd'ing the image (bunzip it first!) to the microsd card23:06
mikecomputingarggh23:07
Stskeepsdon't worry, you're not the first23:08
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GAN900Is it worth bothering with yet?23:09
vljhi23:10
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ScottishDuckI remember my first attempt at linux was gentoo23:10
ScottishDuckdidn't end well23:10
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StskeepsGAN900: go watch one of the videos and make your own conclusions23:10
GAN900So, no?23:10
vljwhat is the best driver for keyboard and the best one for mouse ?23:10
vljI use evdev for both23:10
vljbut I think it is not that great23:10
vlj(alt+tab switch to vt for instance)23:11
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StskeepsGAN900: didn't say no, :) i mean, thp made gpodder run on it, so it's not -horribly- uninteresting23:11
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JaffaStskeeps: But ohnoes, it's Gtk+! ;-)23:20
Stskeepsyes, but not hildon, which is another can of worms23:21
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ScottishDuckInvited to Sweden courtesy of PPSE :)23:22
ScottishDuckwoo holiday23:22
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JaffaStskeeps: I don't think thp would claim the plain Gtk+ version was usuable in a handset UX.23:23
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vgradeabout time, http://edc.intel.com/Software/Downloads/EMGD/23:26
vlj!!23:26
vljam I dreaming ?23:26
vljthere are there ?23:26
vljat last !!!!!!!!!!!23:27
ScottishDuck>release date: january 723:27
vljrelease date : 01 08 201023:27
vlj07*23:27
vljScottishDuck: 7 July actually23:27
vljhope they won't suck as much as IEGD ones did23:28
ali1234why are all the downloads .exe files?23:29
vljbecause IEGD ones were23:29
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ali1234and why is it 1006.3 MB for a video card driver?23:29
ali1234*106.3 MB23:29
vljbecause you have xp and linux version23:30
vljamong other thing23:30
vljIEGD shipped with binaries for Xorg from 1.4 to 1.623:30
ali1234why is there a box to select operating system... which gives you the same huge exe file no matter what you select?23:30
vljyou're asking too much question :p23:32
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vljvgrade: you are making a .ks file for these ones ?23:32
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vgradesec23:34
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ali1234actually there are two downloads, one for windows, one for linux23:35
vljthis is the same file ?23:36
ali1234no23:36
ali1234it's different size23:36
ali1234they are both windows exes though23:36
ali1234what am i supposed to even do with that?23:36
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vljwell23:37
vljI have used IEGD drivers in the past23:37
ScottishDuckAll PCs have windows on them, obviously23:37
vljso I can tell you what you should unofficially do23:37
vljuse wine23:37
vljinstall all the craps that come with the drivers23:38
ali1234this isn't IEGD, this is EMGD23:38
vljthen go in org.something.....drivers23:38
ali1234apparently it is different23:38
vljwell not that much I think23:38
ali1234well i can't be bothered to unpack this23:38
ali1234but from the FAQ it looks like they still didn't even bother to make a wrapper layer23:39
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ScottishDuckmost intel stuff is made for intel, rather than the unwashed masses23:39
ScottishDuckor at least thats the impression you get23:39
ali1234lol, this exe contains JRE23:39
ScottishDuck...23:40
vljyup23:40
ali1234brilliant23:40
vljfor eclipse compatibility23:40
vljeven if eclipse has no utility for this23:40
ScottishDuckcouldn't they have used CDT...23:41
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ali1234i don't even understand what this is supposed to be23:42
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ali1234what is all this eclipse stuff for?23:42
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vljdunno23:42
ali1234given that it doesn't have the source code for the driver, what do i need eclipse for in relation to this stuff?23:42
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ali1234i think the idea is that it can build driver packages23:45
ali1234but only for supported OS23:45
ali1234so basically all that crap is needed so that OEMs can make signed driver cabs for windows... and that's about it23:46
ali1234well, except the windows stuff is in a different package23:47
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