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| vgrade | zimmerle, which one did you build, netbook or IVI | 00:14 |
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| * lbt looks at jeremiah's rants on the meego bugzilla and shakes his head in bemusement. | 01:18 | |
| auke | well, meego's bugzilla is terrible | 01:20 |
| auke | wait, where did he rant? | 01:21 |
| lbt | auke: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=615 | 01:21 |
| lbt | " Open the access of MeeGo OBS" | 01:21 |
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| lbt | did you see my "open letter" epic email? | 01:21 |
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| auke | lbt: yup | 01:24 |
| ScottishDuck | Haha oh wow | 01:24 |
| lbt | did you see Dawn's earlier comments? | 01:24 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: I'm still here btw | 01:24 |
| DawnFoster | :) | 01:24 |
| auke | lbt: don't see anything wrong with that, other than extreme resistance from certain people to do so voluntarily :) | 01:25 |
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| ScottishDuck | since when was an Open OBS the standard for projects | 01:25 |
| auke | ScottishDuck: it's not, but it's a start? | 01:25 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: I'd expect no less :) | 01:25 |
| lbt | auke: nothing wrong with what? | 01:26 |
| DawnFoster | I'm trying to get someone from the LF to chime in on the bug or mailing list thread | 01:26 |
| auke | lbt: your suggestion | 01:26 |
| lbt | OK ... | 01:26 |
| lbt | I can see your point DawnFoster... | 01:26 |
| DawnFoster | actually, the LF might be ok with the nokia proprietary binaries in the community OBS - still trying to get an answer for you | 01:26 |
| DawnFoster | we should also loop arjan into the discussion, since he's the meego architecture lead | 01:27 |
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| auke | DawnFoster: I just added arjan to that bugzilla XD | 01:28 |
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| lbt | make that 24 | 01:30 |
| DawnFoster | auke: thanks - the cc list was so huge, I just assumed he was already on it | 01:30 |
| * lbt is tempted to just announce the url and close the bug :) | 01:30 | |
| ScottishDuck | jeremiah reeks of stallman in disguise | 01:31 |
| ScottishDuck | from reading that bug | 01:31 |
| lbt | nah... stallman is consistent and rational | 01:31 |
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| ScottishDuck | hahahahahaha | 01:31 |
| ScottishDuck | no | 01:31 |
| lbt | sorry, that was unkind... | 01:31 |
| ScottishDuck | Stallman argues about freedom, yet allowed GCC extensions to exist | 01:32 |
| ScottishDuck | real consistant | 01:32 |
| * lbt backs away.... | 01:32 | |
| ScottishDuck | :) | 01:32 |
| auke | I'm refrainging to make statements about Richard Stallman | 01:32 |
| * lbt is an FSF member.... | 01:32 | |
| ScottishDuck | oh noes | 01:32 |
| lbt | I pay them to have my opinion... then I can get on with real work... | 01:33 |
| ScottishDuck | So are GCC extensions a "don't ask don't tell" subject? | 01:33 |
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| thiago | ScottishDuck: extensions to C and C++? | 01:46 |
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| ScottishDuck | yes | 01:46 |
| thiago | the extensions are all documented as such, they provide new functionality allowing better code | 01:46 |
| thiago | they aren't necessary | 01:47 |
| ScottishDuck | they are non-standard | 01:47 |
| thiago | and some extensions become official C and C++ in newer standards | 01:47 |
| ScottishDuck | some | 01:47 |
| thiago | like interleaved declarations and code in C89, // comments | 01:47 |
| thiago | gcc can also disable and warn about any extensions | 01:47 |
| ScottishDuck | However, anyone that wants to make an alternate compiler would have to support gcc extensions | 01:48 |
| thiago | or not | 01:48 |
| ScottishDuck | which for some projects, is impossibe as they strive for standards compliance | 01:48 |
| thiago | I mean, HP, Sun and IBM aren't doing the extensions | 01:48 |
| thiago | I don't see Microsoft doing them either | 01:48 |
| ScottishDuck | thiago: Could you build meego with llvm. | 01:48 |
| ScottishDuck | clang* | 01:48 |
| ScottishDuck | answer: no | 01:48 |
| thiago | clang isn't C++-compliant yet | 01:48 |
| thiago | so that's not a point | 01:49 |
| ScottishDuck | reason: gcc extensions | 01:49 |
| ScottishDuck | Linux kernel is filled with gcc extensions | 01:49 |
| thiago | the Linux kernel is not meant to be built with anything but gcc | 01:49 |
| thiago | that was a conscious decision: "we support gcc only" | 01:49 |
| ScottishDuck | but it is the job of the GNU to maintain software freedoms | 01:50 |
| thiago | any compiler has extensions, particularities and implementation details | 01:50 |
| thiago | all of them have that | 01:50 |
| ScottishDuck | what does clang have | 01:50 |
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| thiago | the C language and the C++ language both have a very well-defined constructs | 01:50 |
| thiago | any developer can stick to them | 01:50 |
| thiago | the Linux developers chose not to | 01:50 |
| thiago | Qt developers chose to | 01:51 |
| ScottishDuck | they would not have chose to do that | 01:51 |
| ScottishDuck | if gcc had no extensions | 01:51 |
| thiago | no, that's not the point | 01:51 |
| ScottishDuck | yes it is | 01:51 |
| thiago | all compilers have extensions | 01:51 |
| thiago | the kernel developers chose not to adhere to the C standard and to depend on the GCC implementation details | 01:51 |
| thiago | that was their choice | 01:51 |
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| thiago | Qt developers chose to support multiple compilers, however | 01:52 |
| thiago | yet gcc is the most-often used one | 01:52 |
| thiago | and yes, we use extensions where they make life easier | 01:52 |
| thiago | inline assembly and intrinsics, for example | 01:52 |
| ScottishDuck | The embedding of extensions into linux and QT was short sighted | 01:53 |
| thiago | no, it was not | 01:53 |
| thiago | it was deliberately chosen to support writing code that the C standard doesn't allow | 01:53 |
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| thiago | and clang can't build standard C++ code yet | 01:53 |
| thiago | last time I heard anyone trying to build Qt with it, it failed in perfectly valid, standards-compliant C++ code | 01:54 |
| ScottishDuck | Wrong | 01:54 |
| thiago | have you tried Qt with clang? | 01:54 |
| ScottishDuck | QT has been bootstrapped with clang | 01:55 |
| thiago | again, last I checked, it failed in perfectly valid C++ code found in linguist | 01:55 |
| thiago | a weird C++ feature known as "global temporaries" | 01:56 |
| thiago | anyway, inline assembly allows us to do something that, without, would be very hard | 01:57 |
| thiago | for example, the x86 architecture can be built with MSVC, GCC, Intel CC and Sun CC | 01:57 |
| thiago | same for x86-64 | 01:57 |
| thiago | GCC and Intel CC use inline assembly | 01:57 |
| thiago | MSVC uses MS intrinsics | 01:58 |
| thiago | for Sun CC, to implement atomic reference counting, we had to add an assembly file and make a function call | 01:58 |
| CosmoHill | I swear you said you were on holiday? | 01:58 |
| thiago | the function call method is the "standards-compliant" way. It's just a lot less efficient. | 01:58 |
| thiago | I am | 01:58 |
| thiago | that means I don't go to the office and I choose which emails I want to answer :-) | 01:59 |
| CosmoHill | I dread to think what your life is like when you're at work | 01:59 |
| thiago | and I'm 10000 km away from the office | 01:59 |
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| thiago | ScottishDuck: so, to sum it up, I do see the value in extensions | 02:02 |
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| thiago | but they are allowed only if the standards are supported well enough | 02:02 |
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| ScottishDuck | For me it doesn't matter if extensions are useful or make life easy | 02:04 |
| ScottishDuck | they are not standards compliant | 02:04 |
| ScottishDuck | and for me that's the bottom line | 02:04 |
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| thiago | then don't use them | 02:05 |
| ScottishDuck | well sadly I require a linux system | 02:06 |
| thiago | how is that "sadly" ? | 02:06 |
| * CosmoHill gets popcorn | 02:07 | |
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| asj | CoderForLife: he must be on holidays, it's 1am or something | 02:10 |
| asj | err CosmoHill | 02:10 |
| thiago | in Oslo, yes | 02:10 |
| thiago | but not here | 02:10 |
| CosmoHill | midnight here | 02:10 |
| * thiago is getting ready for dinner now | 02:10 | |
| LinuxCode | CosmoHill, same | 02:10 |
| asj | thiago: where are you these days? | 02:10 |
| CoderForLife | you called? | 02:11 |
| asj | CoderForLife: nick completion missfire, sorry | 02:11 |
| * CoderForLife wishes he was on holiday | 02:11 | |
| CoderForLife | np asj - thanks for thinking, er typing, of me | 02:12 |
| thiago | asj: at my parents', in Brazil | 02:13 |
| thiago | does anyone know if the MeeGo Conf registrations are open? | 02:14 |
| asj | thiago: ah cool, enjoy :) | 02:14 |
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| DawnFoster | thiago: proposals should open tomorrow | 02:20 |
| thiago | thanks | 02:20 |
| thiago | do you know how we in the program team will get the proposals? | 02:20 |
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| DawnFoster | we had some bugs in the registration website, so it should be open this week, too. | 02:20 |
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| DawnFoster | I'll have to double check with mrshaver, but you'll have access to an admin interface to manage the proposals online | 02:21 |
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| thiago | thanks | 02:21 |
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| CosmoHill | for a moment I thougth DawnFoster said hamster | 02:32 |
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| CoderForLife | gn all | 02:43 |
| vgrade | night, I'm turning in also, it wasn an early start for the community meeting this morning for me | 02:45 |
| CosmoHill | bye bye people | 02:45 |
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| CosmoHill | my server is writing to the hard dirve every second or so | 04:18 |
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| Jack_Herer | hi | 05:26 |
| Jack_Herer | I just downloaded and installed http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.80.11.20100720.1/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.0.80.11.20100720.1-vmlinuz-2.6.35~rc5-126.4-n900 | 05:26 |
| Jack_Herer | oh that's the kernel | 05:26 |
| Jack_Herer | well the rootfs | 05:27 |
| Jack_Herer | and I am desperately searching for Xorg. Is it supposed to be included ? | 05:27 |
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| tmzt | Jack_Herer: how are you searching for it? | 05:29 |
| Jack_Herer | find / -iname x* | 05:29 |
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| Jack_Herer | tmzt: it includes a program called uxlaunch | 05:34 |
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| Jack_Herer | and the curosr doesn't blink :> | 05:34 |
| tmzt | try /usr/bin/X | 05:35 |
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| Jack_Herer | tmzt: there is no X, x, xorg | 05:37 |
| Jack_Herer | tmzt: I will see if the included rpm packet manager will give me an Xserver | 05:38 |
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| tmzt | what does uxlaunch do? | 05:38 |
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| Jack_Herer | it seems like it's from the fedora project | 05:39 |
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| Jack_Herer | at a first glance I like that rootfs a lot | 05:40 |
| Jack_Herer | a new system service and software launcher called "uxlaunch" | 05:41 |
| Jack_Herer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeeGo#License | 05:42 |
| Jack_Herer | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/uxlaunch | 05:42 |
| Jack_Herer | Uxlaunch is a generic X session launch utility, designed to quickly start X and a user desktop. | 05:43 |
| tmzt | so X needs to be there | 05:43 |
| thiago | it is | 05:43 |
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| Jack_Herer | thiago: tmzt: not in meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.0.80.11.20100720.1-raw.tar.bz2 | 05:44 |
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| Jack_Herer | /etc/resolv.conf no such file | 06:09 |
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| Jack_Herer | I'm glad the rootfs contains the full big buck bunny but no X | 06:15 |
| Jack_Herer | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.80.11.20100720.1/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.0.80.11.20100720.1.packages | 06:16 |
| Jack_Herer | according to this it was not installed | 06:16 |
| Jack_Herer | maybe something went wrong with the build ? | 06:16 |
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| Jack_Herer | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.80.10.20100711.1/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.0.80.10.20100711.1.packages | 06:36 |
| Jack_Herer | doesn't contain an xserver either | 06:36 |
| Jack_Herer | is that expected in the meego handset n900 images ? | 06:36 |
| Jack_Herer | would be nice if somebody could shed some light | 06:36 |
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| magie_01123 | Hi , I want to know if Meego ahs real time capabilties | 08:24 |
| magie_01123 | we are working towards designing an IVI solution that requires an RTOS , just wanna know if meego has RTOS capabilities | 08:25 |
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| Stskeeps | magie_01123: think that question might be more suitable for meego-dev@meego.com | 08:28 |
| magie_01123 | thanks Stskeeps | 08:28 |
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| magie_01123 | Does Meego has support for bluray | 08:46 |
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| amjad | morning | 09:21 |
| chriadam | good morning | 09:22 |
| Macer | http://pastebin.com/GAxYw8yN | 09:24 |
| Macer | wow qwerty was pissed but he is right :) | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: that is mostly dealing with maemo though | 09:25 |
| Macer | i hope you guys manage to get something done with the unsupported n900 meego releases | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: doesn't really belong in the place we try to fix things | 09:25 |
| Macer | :) | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, we have 4 closed components: 3d driver (that noone with a sane mind would want to modify), battery management, wifi and bt firmware on n900 | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | .. and that's it | 09:26 |
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| Macer | well. then i hope it works out. because i cant help but agree with qwerty | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | i don't disagree with him either, but it's not targetting this project, so it's a bit off topic :P | 09:27 |
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| Macer | it is a lesson that should be taken into consideration | 09:27 |
| Stskeeps | guess why we're here | 09:27 |
| Stskeeps | isn't just to look good :P | 09:28 |
| Macer | anyways. i will keeop the n900 around to watch the meego progress on it... but looks like i will take the galaxy s route | 09:28 |
| Macer | dont think i am going to buy a nokia ever again ;) | 09:29 |
| Stskeeps | i don't personally care if you have an iphone or a n900 | 09:29 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:29 |
| Stskeeps | this isn't a nokia channel either, so | 09:29 |
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| Macer | good luck with meego Stskeeps | 09:31 |
| Macer | and i mean that in the nice way ;) | 09:31 |
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| fabo | kad: feel free to contribute to the packaging guidelines | 10:28 |
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| magie_01123 | Does the current Meebo release have driver and application layer support for MOST(Media Oriented Systems Transport) | 11:40 |
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| magie_01123 | is meego having support for driving multiple displays | 12:42 |
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| Phazorx | . | 14:03 |
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| magie_01123 | is meego having handwriting recognition support | 14:27 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: thanks for http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=615#c33 , a sane comment in what is otherwise absolutely insanity of a discussion later (woke up to the mails from bugzilla) | 16:26 |
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| X-Fade | bugzilla really isn't for discussions :) | 16:27 |
| X-Fade | *made | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | i'm quite sure my headache today started somewhere in reading those mails | 16:27 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, bugzilla can be used for the strangest things, I have seen it used recently as a VCS ;) | 16:29 |
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| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: yeah, it was quite a discussion yesterday :) | 16:49 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: hope it's not too early but i wanted to ask if we were on same page about one thing: that what is suggested re OBS also building for 'maemo' things isn't to put any kind of binaries/requirements of such into anything shipped as part of meego product/repo.meego releases | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | (mainly asking because it sounded a little like that was the understanding in one of the comments) | 16:54 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: I understand that, which is a big part of why it's such a gray area | 16:55 |
| DawnFoster | I actually think the LF might be ok with it based on some conversations with them yesterday | 16:55 |
| DawnFoster | we just need to be careful that once we one proprietary binary to the community obs, where do we draw the line at more? | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: agreed | 16:56 |
| DawnFoster | it gets slippery once you start | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | in this particular case it's to grandfather a developer community in, similar to the compliance grandfathering | 16:57 |
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| Stskeeps | and thanks for answering - i gotta go have dinner with my lovely wife now :) | 16:57 |
| X-Fade | We should make it clear that it is just grandfathering though. | 16:57 |
| X-Fade | And as N900 is an official reference platform, it makes sense that you can actually use it? | 16:58 |
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| Stskeeps | X-Fade: sorry, didn't understand that one | 16:58 |
| X-Fade | Sorry, completely messed up that sentence/thought ;) | 16:59 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: have a nice dinner - tell the wife we all said hi :) | 16:59 |
| DawnFoster | X-Fade: agree on the grandfathering | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | seems like i just got told to hold my horses on going out the door, so staying a bit :P | 17:00 |
| X-Fade | DawnFoster: Also, we will make sure that the closed stuff is being hosted in an externally linked repository. | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. that's probably important as well | 17:01 |
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| Jack_Herer | thiago: hello. you stated the n900 image should have Xorg installed | 17:03 |
| Jack_Herer | thiago: it obviously doesn't | 17:03 |
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| Jack_Herer | thiago: I looked into two of them, and in both rootfilesystem no xserver can be found. not either in the included install manifest | 17:04 |
| Jack_Herer | thiago: I am starting to wonder if it is expected ? | 17:04 |
| Jack_Herer | thiago: if you have a look at the logs you will see the links | 17:04 |
| Stskeeps | Jack_Herer: /usr/bin/Xorg is there for sure. | 17:04 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: an actual implementation wiki page might help things | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | with pretty drawings of dataflow and such | 17:05 |
| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: 10bucks it is not. grab the raw image, mount it and you will see | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:05 |
| lcuk | which binaries are required for building? | 17:05 |
| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: or just have a glance at the manifest. | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | Jack_Herer: i'm from the n900 hardware adaptation team and i'd gladly bet 10 bucks there's an xorg in our images | 17:05 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Yes, that might be needed. If only the days had more hours :) | 17:05 |
| Jack_Herer | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.80.10.20100711.1/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.0.80.10.20100711.1.packages | 17:05 |
| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: :) | 17:06 |
| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: but why does that packages manifest not mention it ? | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | Jack_Herer: ah, you have one where xorg wasn't in comps.xml | 17:06 |
| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: and why can I not find the binary in the images ? | 17:06 |
| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: I tried all two of them | 17:06 |
| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: I checked the entire trunk directory for the armv7 handeet builds. there are only those two and both do not have xorg binaries | 17:07 |
| Jack_Herer | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.80.11.20100720.1/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.0.80.11.20100720.1.packages | 17:07 |
| Jack_Herer | here's the other one I've spottedf | 17:07 |
| Jack_Herer | s/handeet/handset/ sorry | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | Jack_Herer: it seems like there's a problem with release management's use of comps.xml, could you file a bug about this? | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | we clearly have @Minimal MeeGo X Window System | 17:09 |
| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: after I boot those images I get 3 stuck uxinit processes. I think it might be related to Xorg lack | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | which should include Xorg | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | and i agree | 17:09 |
| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: sure can | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | i guess i owe you a beer if you come to dublin | 17:09 |
| lcuk | i believe the bet was 10bucks :P | 17:09 |
| Jack_Herer | :) | 17:09 |
| frals | lol lcuk | 17:10 |
| Jack_Herer | he will order a very rare fine beer | 17:10 |
| lcuk | or a cheap one depending on currency conversion :P | 17:10 |
| frals | dunno the prices in dublin but here about it doesnt even need to be a rare fine beer to set you back 10 bucks :P | 17:10 |
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| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: I have to run now. I will file the bug soon as I am back home. do you know where I can get a working n900 handset image in the meantime ? | 17:10 |
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| Stskeeps | generate one on your own is best idea | 17:11 |
| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: does it need a special sdk version for the recent n900 netbook ? | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | n900 isn't a netbook | 17:12 |
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| Jack_Herer | handset.. my bad | 17:12 |
| Stskeeps | no, just mic2 and qemu-arm | 17:13 |
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| Jack_Herer | mic2.. let's see what I donwloaded there the other day | 17:13 |
| * lardman wonders where to start with a fortnight's worth of expenses receipts to claim | 17:13 | |
| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: meego-sdk-0524.tar.bz2 | 17:13 |
| lardman | bbl | 17:13 |
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| Stskeeps | Jack_Herer: generally a fedora 12 VM is weapon of choice | 17:13 |
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| Jack_Herer | Stskeeps: my host computer runs ubuntu lucid lynx | 17:14 |
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| Stskeeps | Jack_Herer: yes, so does mine | 17:14 |
| Stskeeps | i have a fedora 12 chroot | 17:15 |
| Jack_Herer | ttyl | 17:15 |
| Jack_Herer | ok I guess I should read up on it | 17:15 |
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| DawnFoster | We just opened up the call for papers for the MeeGo conference in November: http://conference2010.meego.com/ | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 19:19 |
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| DawnFoster | anyone who wants to speak at the event needs to submit a proposal before Aug 23 | 19:19 |
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| Stskeeps | isnt it call for presentations | 19:19 |
| DawnFoster | we're calling is a call for session proposals | 19:19 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, that page looks really cool and bright | 19:20 |
| DawnFoster | it's cool | 19:20 |
| lcuk | and totally awesome actually, but its somewhat eep inducing to see the jpeg artifacts on the lower graphics ! | 19:20 |
| DawnFoster | hmm, we need to clean those up | 19:21 |
| lcuk | the meego on the stadium looks positively ill | 19:21 |
| till- | how about using a graphics-format like png instead of jpeg? | 19:21 |
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| lcuk | increasing brightness on my monitor hides them somwhat! | 19:23 |
| DawnFoster | We also have a twitter account for the event for those of you who are into that http://twitter.com/MeeGoConference | 19:23 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, there is a load of decent info in the logistics area, well thought out! :D | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: Session proposals will be accepted starting August 1st and will close September 1st. | 19:26 |
| DawnFoster | we can thank Amy for that - she's great with those kinds of details! | 19:26 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: according to page | 19:26 |
| lcuk | thank you Amy whoever you are! | 19:26 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: also, wiki page 'Anyone who wants to speak at the conference must submit a proposal! ' points to dev.conference2010.meego.com | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | i guess i can fix that one | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | but the dates are clearly out of sync on wiki and on page as well | 19:30 |
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| DawnFoster | Yeah, I'm working on getting the text changed on the session proposals. They forgot to give me admin access on the production site, and I can't edit it :( | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | just pointing out :) | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | can start organising trip myself now as well | 19:33 |
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| Stskeeps | it's also cool that we can see session proposals as they come in | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | will you be collecting metrics on this, by chance? could be valuable to see when things were submitted/how close to deadline, etc | 19:36 |
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| DawnFoster | good idea - I'll look at doing some metrics for the event | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | or people indicating attendance | 19:42 |
| Jack_Herer | hi again | 19:42 |
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| JenniferB | so many people in here already ? have people started to develope application already ? damn | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | JenniferB: develop in qt or libmeegotouch :) go nuts | 19:51 |
| JenniferB | so what is this for ? | 19:51 |
| JenniferB | operating system developement ? | 19:51 |
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| Stskeeps | all sorts of stuff | 19:53 |
| Stskeeps | community, app development, platform discussion | 19:53 |
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| * VDVsx spams about the CfP :D | 20:00 | |
| Jack_Herer | JenniferB: you can also win a pint of beer | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | to nokia lists? prolly a good idea | 20:01 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, yes, ehehe | 20:01 |
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| Phazorx | anyone can help me with convincing BCD to boot meego off logical partition? | 20:04 |
| * VDVsx likes the meego conference site footer image :D | 20:05 | |
| * Jaffa wonders if a slew of proposals in a month might be a *bit* optimistic for a platform which hasn't really taken off yet | 20:07 | |
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| Stskeeps | jaffa, we'll see, otherwise we'll have a lot of lightning talks | 20:07 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: /me nods | 20:08 |
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| Jaffa | We could just have qwerty12's rant read out by James Earl Jones with some appropriate background music | 20:08 |
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| TSCHAKeee | heheheheheh | 20:09 |
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| odin_ | what is the registration site URL for MeeGo Conference 2010 ? | 20:21 |
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| odin_ | MeeGo_Conference_2010 references Aug 1st for having registration site up, maybe it needs a URL or adjustment | 20:24 |
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| DawnFoster | registration should be available later this week | 20:27 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, a Dramatic Reading? ;) | 20:28 |
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| luist | hello guys... im customizing garage and when i load too many applications from my list into the application i exceed dbus limits... can anyone help me to fix this? http://pastie.org/1075485 | 20:31 |
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| odin_ | luist, what kind of rules are you adding ? filters | 20:32 |
| luist | odin_: no idea... i just made a custom list/ repository for garage | 20:33 |
| odin_ | luist, maybe: /etc/dbus-1/session.conf and max_match_rules_per_connection ? | 20:34 |
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| luist | odin_: i tried editing that but made no difference | 20:36 |
| luist | odin_: added two zeroes | 20:36 |
| ScottishDuck | try three zeroes | 20:36 |
| odin_ | luist, /etc/init.d/messagebus restart | 20:36 |
| luist | odin_: well i rebooted if that makes any difference :P | 20:36 |
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| GAN900 | Stskeeps, we need fewer talks and more collab sessions | 20:37 |
| luist | ScottishDuck: that makes no sense ... with 10 fewer applications in the list it always work | 20:38 |
| odin_ | nah lets have holywar sessions, topic: "Which is best Intel or ARM?" | 20:38 |
| ScottishDuck | ARM for embedded | 20:38 |
| ScottishDuck | it's not much of a discussion | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: think there is space for that too. we say session | 20:38 |
| odin_ | MeeGo Conference 2010: Holywar Sessions, Topic: "Which is best Intel or ARM (for universe domination) ?" | 20:39 |
| lcuk | GAN900, putting a proposal for a collaborative session is just as viable i believe - it requires a topic and outline though just like a regular talk | 20:39 |
| lcuk | hell, you could propose a greek wedding if you like | 20:40 |
| lcuk | :D | 20:40 |
| RST38h | What makes you think Intel is even interested in Meego on ARM? | 20:41 |
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| odin_ | RST38h, who tel ? | 20:42 |
| DawnFoster | we're also going to have plenty of room for unconference discussions | 20:42 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, OK then. | 20:43 |
| DawnFoster | and yes, please post ideas for collaborative discussions in the call for sessions | 20:43 |
| DawnFoster | that's why we called them sessions and not presentations | 20:43 |
| odin_ | MeeGo Conference 2010: Turbo Talk Topic: "How to setup your own OBS in 30 minutes" | 20:43 |
| timeless | what i want is Pre MeeGo Conference: How to get sponsored to MeeGo Conference 2010 | 20:44 |
| lcuk | you missed that timeless, it was last week | 20:45 |
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| lcuk | Meego Summer Seminar 2010 :D | 20:46 |
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| DawnFoster | timeless: On the registration page (which isn't live yet) you can request to have your travel sponsored. | 20:47 |
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| DawnFoster | we'll see how many people request it and how much budget is available to decide who gets sponsored | 20:48 |
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| odin_ | [x] Travel sponsored: envisages he will get a rowing boat :) | 20:48 |
| DawnFoster | I'll probably try to talk quim into doing that piece, since it should be similar to how he handled things last year :) | 20:48 |
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| DawnFoster | odin_: how did you know that was our preferred travel? | 20:49 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, i seem to recall Jaffa doing that last time! | 20:49 |
| lcuk | and stressing quite considerably | 20:49 |
| DawnFoster | as long as I don't have to stress out about it. | 20:49 |
| DawnFoster | (kidding) | 20:49 |
| GAN900 | DawnFoster, community council handed out sponsorships. | 20:50 |
| GAN900 | Quim did it in 2008, though. | 20:50 |
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| DawnFoster | when I say Quim can coordinate it that doesn't mean he can't delegate some of it out to other people | 20:51 |
| DawnFoster | maybe a committee or something | 20:51 |
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| DawnFoster | we have time to figure out how to handle that part | 20:52 |
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| Jaffa | DawnFoster: As said, we did it in the council last time: anyone presenting got approved if they asked, then each council member voted and the results anonymously published. We took into account (shush) karma, products, standing, contributions, past experience etc. | 21:03 |
| Jaffa | DawnFoster: I can dig out how many people we processed for a conference of 400 | 21:03 |
| DawnFoster | jaffa: sure, thanks | 21:04 |
| Jaffa | DawnFoster: Should give an indication of rough percentage of people who asked. Complications come from budget being fixed but each flight varying | 21:04 |
| Jaffa | DawnFoster: We also excluded any Nokians: they had to go to their line manager. | 21:04 |
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| frals | bah! ;) | 21:05 |
| DawnFoster | We'll also want to exclude Intel / Nokia from this process | 21:05 |
| Jaffa | DawnFoster: As Intel/Nokia/none-of-the-above are equal I'd expect more "it's my job, can I come?" | 21:07 |
| * Jaffa would say if it's someone's job, it's their employer who should pay - in general. | 21:07 | |
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| DawnFoster | Jaffa: agreed - corporate types can afford to pay their own travel :) | 21:09 |
| DawnFoster | We're also limiting the number of Intel / Nokia people allowed to attend to make sure that we get plenty of other people | 21:09 |
| Jaffa | However, what if an Nokian or Intelligensia are oging above and beyond and actively in the community? | 21:09 |
| Jaffa | Ah, cool. | 21:10 |
| DawnFoster | even if they go above & beyond, Intel and Nokia can afford to pay travel | 21:10 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, was around 40 sponsored participants IIRC (some with just accommodation and others just the trip ) | 21:10 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: I think it was 50-odd, but order of magnitude about right. Interesting question is how many *asked* | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | and how many of thosde were speakers | 21:13 |
| * Jaffa nods. | 21:14 | |
| * Jaffa tries to get Google Docs up on his N900 over GPRS | 21:14 | |
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| Phazorx | anybody uses win7 any chance on more or less advanced level? | 21:26 |
| Phazorx | i'm trying to befreind samsung n150 with meego but having a lot of issues caused by proprietary vendor software on hidden partition and BCD | 21:27 |
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| odin_ | and EasyBCD is not your friend ? | 21:28 |
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| Phazorx | well... bcd keeps overwriting meegoo's bootloader invoked by "restore solution" automatically and it is using 3 primary partitions for that... which makes not possible to use BCD to boot from logical partition | 21:28 |
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| Phazorx | so i am wondering if i sac windows loader along with bcd - will it render win7 unusable to full capacity? | 21:29 |
| Phazorx | will wake/unhibernate functionality will be lost or something? | 21:29 |
| odin_ | have you tried using EasyBSD to resolve bootup issues ? | 21:30 |
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| Phazorx | or perhaps extlin or grub are smart enough to take care of that? | 21:30 |
| odin_ | opps EasyBCD | 21:30 |
| odin_ | sure the Linux stuff is "smart" enough to deal with Linux/BSD/open-source things | 21:30 |
| Phazorx | odin_: i'm at stage of trying to avoid bootup issues | 21:30 |
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| odin_ | but not "stupid" enough to follow Microsoft's (undocumented?) conventions for each operating system | 21:31 |
| Phazorx | so no i have not tried messing with easybcd aside of looking at startup scenaros which there are many there | 21:31 |
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| Phazorx | i studied bcdedit manual though, which made me convinced that easybcd is not going to "take care of all my problems" | 21:32 |
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| odin_ | you need a bootloader that understand how to deal with Win7 that can instruct/fool Win7 that everything is ok and just bootup | 21:32 |
| Phazorx | well yes... so do i have choices other than bcd? | 21:32 |
| odin_ | I'm not aware of any MeeGo packaged bootloader that can address this matter | 21:32 |
| odin_ | well EasyBCD is a bootloader in its own right, it just understand Microsoft disk layout formats and file-systems to make things work | 21:33 |
| Phazorx | as far as i can understand it uses BCD as loader | 21:34 |
| Phazorx | abd easybcd just a more convieniet way to edit scenarios/scripts for bcd | 21:34 |
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| odin_ | yes Windows uses BCD, but "EasyBCD" is a neosmart.net software item | 21:34 |
| Phazorx | i mean BCD = loader, EasyBCD = loader script editing software | 21:35 |
| odin_ | that is not how I understand EasyBCD to work, it put its own bootloader in place and sets up some working space on the C:\ to copy/setup stuff | 21:35 |
| Phazorx | or easybcd includes some other loader | 21:35 |
| Phazorx | hmm... i better read manual for easybcd then | 21:36 |
| odin_ | I believe it installs its own | 21:36 |
| odin_ | even if it has no UI it just doe the work of how you configure it | 21:36 |
| Phazorx | thanks let's hope it has one | 21:36 |
| Phazorx | is there an image that can be used for meego's extlinux? | 21:36 |
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| Phazorx | or i just instruct extlinux to put loader locally on boot partition wo messing MBR and then easybcd just needs first 512bytes of that? | 21:38 |
| odin_ | worst case scenario you should be able to place vmlinux and initrd on the C:\ and tell it to boot that | 21:38 |
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| odin_ | but I suspect you can just install GRUB in the rootfs, and have EasyBCD run that when you pick Linux on bootup | 21:39 |
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| Phazorx | any reason why meego uses extlinux instead of grub btw? | 21:39 |
| odin_ | I'm sure I did know why at one point but grub exists as a package and is installable | 21:40 |
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| Phazorx | heh | 21:41 |
| odin_ | install it and use setup(hd0,X) on your rootfs | 21:41 |
| Phazorx | i just thought of trying to avoid finding out the hard way tthat reason | 21:41 |
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| odin_ | then reboot Win7 and setup EasyBSD | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | Phazorx: probably a combo of fastboot and that the author works for intel | 21:41 |
| odin_ | I keep doing that... s/BSD/BCD/ | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | and legacy | 21:42 |
| Phazorx | odin_: probably have to do it oter way | 21:42 |
| Phazorx | if i manage to get rid of recovery partition 1st | 21:42 |
| Phazorx | because currently after win is loaded linxpartition is lost | 21:42 |
| odin_ | well its easier to point EasyBCD at a rootfs with embded boot sector and it is to fudge the first MeeGo bootup to install grub, to then reconfigure EasyBCD, making grub works, will make kernel upgrades easier | 21:43 |
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| Phazorx | Stskeeps: will same aproach work with extlin+easybcd as what odin_ described for grub? | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | Phazorx: i have no clue about x86 side of meego sorry | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | meego arm guy | 21:43 |
| Phazorx | heh | 21:44 |
| Phazorx | lucky you :) | 21:44 |
| Stskeeps | it is certainly a challenge at times | 21:44 |
| Phazorx | i think in this world one finds challenges everywhere one goes | 21:45 |
| odin_ | is your laptop Atom CPU ? the "N" as first letter of model is CPU code and all N-series are atoms ? | 21:45 |
| Phazorx | yeah n450 based | 21:46 |
| Phazorx | meego works fine | 21:46 |
| CosmoHill | cyas | 21:46 |
| Phazorx | just cant make it stick to HD | 21:46 |
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| Phazorx | and samsung is a bit weird about their numbering and generatrions | 21:47 |
| Phazorx | n120-130-140 are N280 based for example | 21:47 |
| timeless | oh, that makes perfect sense! | 21:48 |
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| Phazorx | and n150 is pretty much same design wise as n140 but totaly different inside and sucks 2-3 more hurs from same battery | 21:48 |
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| lbt | evening | 21:58 |
| threezero | afternoon | 21:58 |
| threezero | (in 3 mins) | 21:58 |
| odin_ | ??werdup?? | 21:58 |
| slonopotamus | night | 21:59 |
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| threezero | morning (for the next 1 min) | 22:00 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: any objections to putting a correct TSG meeting date in topic? | 22:07 |
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| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: sure - or should we remove it and just put a link to the IRC meeting schedule? | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: think that maintains itself better, yeah | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | the important thing is the technical meetings (which i'd like to see more of personally), TSG is last resort for questions :) | 22:08 |
| DawnFoster | otherwise, we'll just continue to forget to update it :) | 22:08 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps | 22:09 | |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: agreed! I've been trying to get people to have more technical meetings | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: i think the handset ux guys might be motivated if you want some guinea pigs since many of them already hang out here | 22:10 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: I've been working on them - I'm trying to get Pierre to organize it | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | which reminds me we haven't had a meeting in n900 in a while either | 22:11 |
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| Stskeeps | oh, right, was fixing topic | 22:12 |
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| *** Stskeeps changes topic to "The topic for #meego is: MeeGo - http://meego.com | This channel is logged, see them at http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/ | http://wiki.meego.com/Whos_who - add yourself | MeeGo 1.0 Release http://bit.ly/dnq4gV | #meego-meeting schedule at http://bit.ly/aLI1vi" | 22:13 | |
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| Khertan | Stskeeps, is it possible to have an account to the obs for the pyside guys ? | 22:15 |
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| Stskeeps | Khertan: i don't do anything related to that, but there's a bug area for build service requests | 22:15 |
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| Khertan | i though it was you sorry ... | 22:16 |
| Khertan | i m running to ask to lbt so :) | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | ah, you mean community OBS | 22:16 |
| Khertan | yep this one | 22:16 |
| Khertan | sorry i was not clear ... :) | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | you have to be careful about specifying OBS'es | 22:16 |
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| Khertan | to be exact it s for renato from the #pyside chan | 22:16 |
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| Stskeeps | i got meego obs and some other obs'es mixed up at some point and ended up on a team where i was put to do work i wasn't supposed to do | 22:16 |
| Khertan | who have just join us :) | 22:17 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:17 |
| Stskeeps | cos of that mistake ;) | 22:17 |
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| lbt | Khertan: we spoke | 22:17 |
| lbt | on th eml | 22:17 |
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| Stskeeps | Khertan: how do you like OBS, out of curiousity? | 22:18 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: on a sidenote.. how do people do builds for maemo5 and meego with same package? | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | .diff.gz+dsc plus spec? | 22:19 |
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| lbt | yup | 22:20 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, i like it exept that python module building need some docs | 22:20 |
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| Khertan | which didn't exists on suse wiki | 22:20 |
| Khertan | :) | 22:21 |
| lbt | and there's a naming we can do "pkg.meego.spec" "pkg.suse.spec" | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | ah, nice | 22:21 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, i wasn't able to build for meego as pyqt4 or pyside aren't available yet ;) | 22:21 |
| Khertan | so this is why i ask an account for renato :) | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: :nod: | 22:21 |
| Khertan | to have pyside in meego obs :) | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder if bindings could exist for libmeegotouch | 22:22 |
| Khertan | i must go on wife is back | 22:22 |
| Khertan | bye :) | 22:22 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, pyqt4 is enough :) | 22:22 |
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| Khertan | specifics libs is the wrong way and break the main goal of qt | 22:22 |
| renato | Stskeeps, we are working on python bindings to libmeegotouch at the moment | 22:23 |
| lbt | hey renato | 22:23 |
| renato | hi | 22:23 |
| Khertan | why not keeping hildon if this is for making custom lib | 22:23 |
| Khertan | :) | 22:23 |
| Khertan | so anyway ... bye :) | 22:23 |
| lbt | please keep nagging me about pyside | 22:23 |
| lbt | I probably won't remember that you asked... too busy... but I won't mind "is it ready yet" every few days... | 22:24 |
| renato | lbt, is it ready yet? :D | 22:25 |
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| lbt | no... and that's your go for this week ;) | 22:25 |
| setanta | hahaha | 22:25 |
| lbt | I got the favicon working though!! | 22:25 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: yay for small victories | 22:31 |
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| Phazorx | hrm... was there a topic change 11 linues ago? | 22:33 |
| Phazorx | and another one 20 min ago? | 22:33 |
| Phazorx | i seem to get d/ced every time it happens :| | 22:33 |
| mgedmin | there was one topic change 20 minutes ago | 22:34 |
| mgedmin | nothing happened 11 minutes ago | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 22:36 |
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| berndhs | hi, is lbt here , or x-fade, about the meego community OBS ? | 23:48 |
| lbt | hi | 23:49 |
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| berndhs | hi lbt, i have a few small packages, like to try meego obs on them | 23:49 |
| lbt | OK ... we're still in a beta stage at the moment | 23:49 |
| berndhs | yes i'm aware of that | 23:50 |
| berndhs | my pacakges are alpha or beta | 23:50 |
| lbt | so the focus is on people who know the OBS and have time to get involved in helping fix it | 23:50 |
| berndhs | i can do that | 23:50 |
| lbt | cool - have you used OBS before? | 23:51 |
| berndhs | i make meego rpms now on my machine, but has stuff on it that obs doesnt | 23:51 |
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| berndhs | i use the opensuse obs, have some stuff there | 23:51 |
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| lbt | I msg'ed you berndhs... | 23:54 |
| berndhs | ok | 23:54 |
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