IRC log of #meego for Thursday, 2010-07-08

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* Stskeeps falls down his chair of meego-security posts00:12
CosmoHillhow big is your chair if you can fall down it?00:13
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aukecould be tiny00:14
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Stskeepswell, at least we got confirmed that security is being taken seriously :)00:17
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CosmoHillwell if you got in there and took the chair...00:18
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CosmoHillyou know what I said about mentors in the meeting?00:28
CosmoHillat the moment there is someone in the channel who's asking lots of questions and explaining what he's doing / done very badly00:29
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CosmoHillit's like the first half of the conversation has been skipped00:29
CosmoHillso most of the mentors / helpers are staying quiet and letting unspecting vitciums deal with him00:30
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DawnFosterdid you guys see that we just released an update to the netbook release: http://meego.com/community/blogs/dawnfoster/2010/meego-1.0-update-netbooks01:25
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thiago_homenow we know :-)01:28
vgradeDawnFoster, does that include the EMGD graphics driver update?01:28
DawnFosterthe blog post links to the full list of bugs01:29
vgradethanks01:29
DawnFosterwe fixed 100+ bugs (I don't have them all memorized) :)01:29
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tremnite all, sweet dreams01:30
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lcukDawnFoster, nice thing to do is point at the meego bugtracker with a search filter!01:31
lcukbugzille does charts and stuff too  ;)01:31
lcuka01:31
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DawnFosterluckily, I'm not in charge of any of that :) I just wrote it up into a nice blog post.01:35
DawnFosterhowever, having the text in a web page is better for searching01:35
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DawnFosterthe text was generated out of bugzilla, I think01:36
DawnFosterand then cleaned up for formatting01:36
lcukheh01:36
lcuktheres a lot of bugfixes in your 'zilla01:36
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ljphmmmm i think i need a netbook with 3g01:39
CosmoHillljp: it better be internal 3g01:40
ljpya that too01:41
CosmoHillI hate that in the UK you can get a free netbook with a contract01:41
CosmoHilland it's on bloody dongle01:41
CosmoHillthat's what you want one a computer you take around and throw in your bag01:41
CosmoHillsomething that snaps off01:41
ljpi get lots of free stuff with my contract, but I need to trade emacs time to get them :)01:42
CosmoHillby emacs you mean the editor?01:43
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ljpindeed01:43
asjwhen I got me last laptop I made the mistake of not getting the $50 3g modem option, oh well :(01:50
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CosmoHillmy first laptop is a 2005 powerbook that I'm using now01:55
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StskeepsDawnFoster: at least the bugs i tried in the meego-security@ mailings today was closed, but i can to some extent understand why (for a slow period of time), depending on what policies security people might have02:12
DawnFosterI've been talking to people about this.02:12
Stskeeps:nod:02:12
Stskeepsjust noticed your post02:13
DawnFosterthe only reason that we should have them private is if we received the info under embargo02:13
DawnFosterthe flash issue, for example, has been a known issue for a month02:13
Stskeepsnot complaining, just for good measure :) without a upgrade path, things like that could be troublesome if there's exploit info etc02:13
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DawnFosterI need to have someone scrub bugzilla to fix it02:14
CosmoHillcyas02:18
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Stskeepsif anyone wants to participate in making motivational (not demotivational) posters to encourage people in offices or around the world to join the open and upbeat MeeGo atmosphere, reasons and benefits for working in the open in the project, - http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=80803:31
odin_up late today?03:35
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Stskeepsa tad..03:35
Stskeeps:P03:35
TermanaAre we discouraged from making demotivational posters?03:35
Termana:P03:35
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Stskeepsdefeats the purpose :)03:38
odin_all publicity is good publicity ?03:39
Stskeeps"WE'RE YOUR POTENTIAL CONTRIBUTORS, WE BITE, ARGUE AND QUESTION YOUR EVERY MOVE"? ;)03:39
Stskeeps(that'd be demotivational)03:40
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GAN900Ha03:46
GAN900What if we're already all out? :P03:46
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TSCHAKeeeStskeeps: aww, your post was a good one. ;)03:47
TSCHAKeeeunfortunately your demotivational jab is very close to home :P03:47
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Stskeepsmutual respect is needed, agreed03:49
GAN900Well, that's one of the prices of working in the open03:49
GAN900It aint free.03:50
Stskeepsit isn't, but the benefit should be higher than cost03:50
Stskeepsas well as a recruiting base03:51
asjthere seem to be other projects though that seem more cooperative03:51
TermanaWell actually I was thinking more of a demotivational poster that said:03:51
TermanaMEEGO ON N90003:51
TermanaStill uses BME.03:51
Stskeepsoi03:51
Stskeeps:P03:51
Termana:P03:51
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TSCHAKeeehaaa03:55
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GAN900Unfortunate to see Google TV getting the early press.04:31
TSCHAKeeeyeah, you're telling me04:35
TSCHAKeeeoh well04:35
TSCHAKeeei gave up hoping that my project would ever get any big publicity04:35
GAN900TSCHAKeee, too much between it and normal people, unfortunately.04:37
GAN900Stuff like that has to be braindead easy04:37
GAN900and preferably sold bundled with lots of Sony/Panasonic/Samsung/whatever stuff at BestBuy04:38
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TSCHAKeeewell, i am just glad it exists... i've allocated at least the next 20 years of my life to it...just to see how far I can take it.04:38
GAN900I still need to try to set up a proper integrated media system here.04:38
GAN900PS3 + EyeConnect is just enough to pass my laziness threshold. :P04:39
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TSCHAKeeeif you follow some basic guidelines, things do just work with our system... :)04:39
GAN900By "just work" I mean04:39
GAN900Don't have to dick around installing Linux and/or anything else04:39
TSCHAKeeehttp://www.dianemo.co.uk/04:40
TSCHAKeeebut whatever04:40
TSCHAKeeei can see where this conversation is going04:40
TSCHAKeeeand i'm going to drop it now04:40
TSCHAKeeeand save you the grace of being a dick.04:40
TSCHAKeee;)04:40
GAN900TSCHAKeee, don't get me wrong04:40
GAN900I'm not blaming you or accusing you of anything04:41
GAN900But the reality is that consumers are SUPER LAZY04:41
TSCHAKeeeI know04:41
TSCHAKeeethe system we have now is not the endgame04:41
TSCHAKeeeat all04:41
GAN900and if nobody's shouting it in your face 24/7 they wont notice04:41
TSCHAKeeeit's merely an intermediate step, while we research options04:41
GAN900even if they are, if it takes any effort at all, they wont bother.04:42
TSCHAKeeemy goal is to make a whole family of parts that snap together like legos04:42
TSCHAKeeethat just work04:42
TSCHAKeeebut i know it will take me the next decade to realize it.04:42
TSCHAKeeei just work on it bit by bit.04:42
GAN900You do what you can and I certainly appreciate it. :)04:43
GAN900It's slow going, though.04:43
TSCHAKeeebut the technology is amazing in and of itself.. so it's out there for the brave souls who want it. ;)04:43
TSCHAKeeethanks.04:43
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GAN900I just wish open source didn't have so many hurdles in its way (both self-set and otherwise) and I wish it had some advocates who were in it for better reasons.04:44
TSCHAKeeeme too.04:45
GAN900Google, for instance, is in it too collect information on you for Minority Report-advertising.04:45
TSCHAKeeebut in the mean time, i'll just keep going04:45
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GAN900I wonder how long MeeGo's interactive TV big reveal will take. . . .04:46
TSCHAKeeewell, if i can get some things figured out04:46
TSCHAKeeemaybe i could force that hand04:47
TSCHAKeeei dunno, i still have several major pieces of code to rewrite to get them under GPL...04:47
TSCHAKeeebut thiago had the right idea04:47
TSCHAKeeeif you want to counter-act the big reveal04:48
TSCHAKeeepreempt it with a community replacement04:48
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Stskeepslooking at meegotouch-theme-meego.. MTF really looks flexible in terms of creating things04:49
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Stskeepshttp://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux/meegotouch-theme-meego/blobs/master/meego/meegotouch/duihome/style/duihome.css being desktop CSS for instance04:50
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luke-jrStskeeps: what does MeeGo use for a WM?05:38
luke-jrin particular, is it GTK-free?05:39
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TSCHAKluke-jr, depends on the UX05:46
TSCHAKluke-jr, and why would being GTK-free matter?05:46
TSCHAKare you a bigot?05:46
odin_I'm not a GTK fan either, down with the GIMP05:47
luke-jrTSCHAK: sure, with regard to GTK, I guess I'm a bigot05:47
TSCHAKthat's sad.05:48
luke-jrhandheld devices only have so much RAM. I'm not interested in wasting it on 2 implementations of the same crap05:48
luke-jrand Qt is clearly superior to GTK05:48
TSCHAKopinion, in my opinion it depends on the use case05:48
TSCHAKbut whatever05:48
TSCHAKyou can keep your uninformed view05:48
TSCHAK;)05:48
luke-jrGTK's only reason for existence is that Qt was once non-free05:48
luke-jrQt is free now; GTK has no purpose05:49
TSCHAKuh05:49
TSCHAKwow05:49
TSCHAKyou really are an idiot,05:49
TSCHAKif i may correct you05:49
TSCHAKGTK+'s existance predates Qt05:49
luke-jrlol05:49
odin_no GTKs existence was GIMP and GNOME's existence was because Qt was once non-free05:49
TSCHAKGTK+ was written because Spencer didn't like Motif.05:49
TSCHAKI happen to know this first hand.05:50
asjTSCHAK: no one like motif05:50
odin_hey I don't like Motif too, and you can know that first hand as well05:50
odin_Motif+CDE is K00l05:50
luke-jrGTK+ -- 199705:50
* TSCHAK laughs05:50
luke-jrQt -- 199105:50
* TSCHAK facepalms05:51
* TSCHAK shakes head.05:51
TSCHAKone would think that programmers would outgrow this stupid one dimensional attachment to a toolkit or a language05:51
TSCHAKoh well.05:51
TSCHAKlive in your own little world05:51
TSCHAKfine by me.05:51
odin_well Qt is not great either and X11 is not great either, but it will all go for now05:52
odin_s/go/do/05:52
infobotodin_ meant: well Qt is not great either and X11 is not great either, but it will all do for now05:52
* luke-jr finds it sadly humourous how TSCHAK resorts to ad hominem upon being proven wrong05:52
TSCHAKyou said that GTK+ was written in response to Qt...05:52
luke-jrand you said GTK+ predates Qt05:53
TSCHAKyou are correct that Qt predates GTK+, my bad05:53
TSCHAKbut05:53
TSCHAKyour statement that GTK+ was designed because Qt wasn't free, isn't true.05:53
TSCHAKbut anyway.05:53
luke-jrthen why wasn't GIMP based on Qt? ;)05:53
TSCHAKyou have the air of a kid.05:53
odin_no he confused GNOME v KDE on the non-free issue05:53
TSCHAKluke-jr, contrary to popular belief, the world doesn't revolve around one toolkit or language05:54
luke-jrnope, they compete.05:54
TSCHAKGIMP wasn't based around Qt because orignally, GIMP was written in MOTIF05:54
TSCHAKC, with Motif and Xt calls05:54
luke-jrbad logic05:54
odin_and even Motif looked great next to Xaw05:54
TSCHAKthis was the case for GIMP, from its original release, through 0.705:54
luke-jrso why not switch to Qt? why invent a new toolkit?05:55
asjodin_: well...looks weren't motif's problems05:55
TSCHAKluke-jr, it wasn't written in C++.05:55
luke-jrirrelevant05:55
TSCHAKwow.05:55
TSCHAKreally?05:55
TSCHAKpray tell05:55
chriadamno, please don't.05:56
TSCHAKexpound upon us with your vast array of knowledge05:56
TSCHAKwhy is this irrelevant?05:56
TSCHAKsee, I know the real answer05:56
ljpoff topic05:56
TSCHAKbecause I was around during that time period05:56
ljpplease go to #flame-wars05:56
odin_I reallt like WPF that is something MS got right, not sure on XBAM tho or SL, but WPF for UI is a major step in the right direction05:57
TSCHAKGTK+ was designed to be an improvement over MOTIF..because especially at this time, Motif was not freely available, and LessTif was still very much in development.05:57
odin_*XBAP05:57
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luke-jrthe difference between "because Qt was non-free" and "because Motif was non-free" is quite trivial; but as ljp and chriadam said, this is off-topic, so stfu and let me stick to Qt05:58
luke-jrljp: happen to know the answer to my original question?05:59
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luke-jris MeeGo's WM GTK-free?05:59
TSCHAKagain, DEPENDS ON THE BLOODY UX.05:59
odin_anyone know how to converts a vmlinuz into a zImage ?  i.e. remove bootsect.o...piggy.o and get back the ELF kernel image06:00
TSCHAKNetbook UX uses Mutter06:00
TSCHAKHandset UX uses mcompositor+libmeegotouch06:00
TSCHAKof course06:00
TSCHAKyou could have figured that out, with a little trip through the wiki.06:00
odin_luke-jr, GTK+ is available to use but the Nokia system will be almost exclusively Qt based06:00
TSCHAKand yes, in case you can't put 2+2 together06:00
TSCHAKmcompositor+libmeegotouch is based on Qt.06:00
* luke-jr looked at MeeGo's site for an answer before asking on IRC06:00
TSCHAKI leave it to you and your capable hands to figure out how to use it.06:01
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luke-jrCuriously, Google finds nothing useful on mcompositor at all, let alone a wiki page for it06:04
chriadammeegotouch-compositor06:04
TSCHAKeeechanged names again06:05
TSCHAKeeeheh06:05
asjchriadam: you took all the fun out of this :( this was the most #meego traffic I've seen in weeks. luke-jr meets #meego ;)06:05
luke-jrasj: I've been in here for weeks06:05
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gnomonI suspect I'm poking a hornet's nest, but here goes: any plans for Poulsbo support?06:38
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TSCHAKeeegnomon: go for it. ;)06:42
gnomonTSCHAKeee, I would love to, but throwing myself simultaneously at the tasks of reverse engineering img-tec's hardware and fending off their lawyers isn't really what I had in mind.06:46
TSCHAKeeehahaha i understand06:47
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FunkyPenguinwhat's the correct argument for libsocialweb to use NetworkManager instead of conman?11:35
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Stskeepscould you rephrase that question a bit?11:35
FunkyPenguinI currently have --with-online=NetworkManager as part of configure, but it bombs out saying it cant work out how to get online11:36
Stskeepsah11:36
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MasterMatan_`utf12:04
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robsterFunkyPenguin: well you're capitalising it wrongly12:10
robsterFunkyPenguin: the configure.ac shows that's it's --with-online=networkmanager12:10
FunkyPenguinrobster, yup caught that12:10
FunkyPenguinah i worked it out - i missed the devel package out :/12:11
FunkyPenguinthanks though12:11
robsteryes you'll need libnm-glib12:11
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FunkyPenguinoh arse, all the moblin* packages have been renamed to meego*12:21
FunkyPenguinmakes sense but...12:21
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meegodotbyhi all13:10
meegodotbyIs there a hal package in Meego?13:12
Stskeepsno HAL in meego13:12
meegodotbyStskeeps : thanks13:13
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koupsaahello all13:27
X-FadeHmm mic fresh from git is showing a wrong meego url.13:43
X-Fademic --help |tail -n 113:43
X-Fade* http://www.meego.org/13:43
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FunkyPenguinis the networks panel new?13:47
miigfor me - no13:48
* FunkyPenguin didnt remember seeing it when 1.0 was released in may13:49
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miigi installed update 1.0.1, when click web-pan - have crash message about web-panel13:49
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koupsaareboot test upgrade14:01
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h00kSo, I saw an email about a large update, is that something that has hit the repo? I just installed again last night from alpha-testing Ubuntu 10.1014:22
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h00kAlso, I'm logged into Last.FM, gave it the permissions it needs, but I can't play my lastfm content through Banshee14:27
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h00kIt's telling me "This station is only available to subscribers" so it's like I'm not logged in14:29
h00kbut indeed it says i am14:29
h00kAny protips?14:30
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PolarFoxsubscribers, as in not for people with free accounts?14:35
h00kI don't know, actually.14:36
h00kI suppose I could grab Pro status again and see if that'll help14:37
h00kI'm able to play them in Rhythmbox, however14:37
h00kon my Ubuntu install, without a Pro account14:37
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h00kin a similar fashion (create a new Similar station with an artist's name, it populates a playlist, and hit 'play')14:42
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meegodotbyand another14:47
meegodotbyIs there a any devicekit packages in Meego?14:48
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Stskeepsmeegodotby: yes14:54
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FunkyPenguinanyone able to help out with a packaging error for -panel-web please? http://pastie.org/103580015:12
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faboFunkyPenguin: it doesn't seems like a packaging error15:28
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FunkyPenguinfabo, not entirely but hopefully someone has encountered/fixed it before15:31
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jeremiahIs it correct to assume that the MeeGo version number is in Major.minor.revision format?15:42
jeremiahI.e. 1.0.115:42
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slainejeremiah: don't think so15:53
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robsterFunkyPenguin: are you using *exactly* the same chromium as meego shipped with?16:04
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kryptonA variant of nascent version of MeeGo running on a Lenovo Pad powered by Atom. This was when MeeGo did not have polished GUI16:07
kryptonhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6muBs8LUlYU16:07
robsterFunkyPenguin: also, have you checked that you can legally distribute the assets: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-netbook-ux/mutter-meego/blobs/meego-1.0/data/theme/LICENSE ?16:07
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FunkyPenguinrobster, im using a slightly newer release iirc16:09
FunkyPenguinso i need to make sure im compliant first?16:09
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robsterFunkyPenguin: i'm not a lawyer, i'm just pointing out that the mutter-moblin and moblin-icon-theme for meego 1.0 and above have that license for the assets16:10
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Stskeepsworth asking on meego-dev16:11
FunkyPenguinrobster, the license hasnt changed from moblin 2.1 has it?16:11
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Stskeepsi think the real bugger is when a device is made with it, but cant be sure16:11
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robsterFunkyPenguin: that license is from meego 1.0 forward, for moblin 2.1 the assets were under the same license as the code, LGPLv2.116:12
FunkyPenguini know i was ok for that - i had to go through novell legal to get the packages in distro16:12
FunkyPenguinah bugger16:12
robsterFunkyPenguin: so yes, this is a change.16:12
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FunkyPenguinok, i'll get someone to check for me that understands the mumbojumbo16:13
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FunkyPenguinrobster, am i restricted to *exactly* the same chromium release as you guys? it's a pita from a security standpoint if i am16:35
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slainerobster: getting a lot of crashes with moblin-pabel-web since the upgrade last night16:44
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robsterslaine: open bug reports please16:51
slaineautoreported the crashes at least16:51
robsterslaine: oh, that'll probably get ignored16:53
robsterslaine: that tool is really in beta16:53
slaineyeah, figured, reporting via bugzilal too16:53
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anaZholy f17:26
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lbtholy g17:32
Stskeepsholy meego17:33
w00t_anaZ: holy fremantle?17:34
w00t_:-P17:34
anaZholy falafel17:34
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Stskeepsis it friday yet?17:36
w00t_http://isitfridayyet.org/17:36
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chem|stw00t_: who the hell is paying 12eur a year for that domain?18:03
w00t_no clue18:04
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chem|st"beta"18:04
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Jef91anyone know how functional meego currently is on the n900?21:35
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GAN900Jef91, not very21:36
CosmoHillyou can't make phone calls21:36
CosmoHillor charge the battery21:36
Jef91LOL good to know. Can it be dual booted with Maemo?21:36
GAN900Yes21:37
GAN900Although you'll have to change kernels each time21:38
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Jef91Got a link to a HOWTO offhand? GAN900?21:38
GAN900Not handy21:38
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Jef91oh, and does wifi at least work on the n900 with meego?21:38
RST38hno21:39
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RST38hnot right now anyway21:39
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Jef91ahh alrighty then. It's kinda sad that the Andriod port currently has more functions working on the n900 than meego does when Meego is suppose to be half based off of maemo...21:40
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CosmoHilldoes meego have ntp?21:52
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lbtCosmoHill: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/1.0.80.9.20100706.1/core/repos/source/22:23
CosmoHillthanks22:23
lbt(yes)22:23
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CosmoHilllots of patches22:24
CosmoHillnon of which I've used in my RPM :/22:24
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ScottishDuckHow do you get the n900 .ks to draw from 1.0.80.9 instead of 80.8?22:33
ScottishDuckdo you simply change the name of the .ks?22:33
CosmoHillchange the name?22:33
ScottishDuckah22:33
CosmoHillit would be in the ks file somewhere22:33
ScottishDuckI'll try that later22:33
CosmoHillwhat lisence in the boot script under?22:35
ScottishDuckno idea22:38
ScottishDuckYou have to agree to a restrictive non-redistributable user agreement though22:39
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CosmoHill?22:40
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CosmoHillwb22:42
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ScottishDuckugh... BT22:46
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CosmoHillhehe22:50
CosmoHillScottishDuck: IRC is working but my web isn't22:51
CosmoHillI can't view any websites22:51
CosmoHilland I think mum's just lost WOW22:51
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lpotterdoes meego use HAL or udisks?23:45
trip0lpotter, devicekit-power23:46
trip0err, devicekit23:46
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messertingAnyone knows if Ekiga is/will be available for Meego?23:55
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aukecurrently isn't23:59
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messertingPretty lame of skype not to offer video chat on Linux (other than on Meego)23:59

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