IRC log of #meego for Friday, 2010-05-21

DawnFosterMaybe talk to Bergie and have him test your feed in the new planet just to make sure it's going to work there00:00
lbtit's fine on maemo.org00:00
DawnFosteryour feed has been added, but it refuses to pick up the posts even when I manually refresh00:01
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lbt<sniff>00:01
DawnFosteri'll try to manually refresh it again00:01
DawnFosterno luck00:02
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lbtoh well00:03
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lbtthanks for trying for me :)00:04
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DawnFosterhappy to "help"00:06
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lbtkimitake: I missed your comment on my blog...00:10
lbttbh, it tends to be write-only ;)00:11
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lbtI don't know how you join the team - I think you just ask X-Fade.00:11
lbtping me when/if you read this00:12
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dnearyDawnFoster, Hi!00:16
DawnFosterhey dneary00:16
pupnik_good evening to mr dnreary00:16
pupnik_:)00:16
lbto/00:16
dnearyDawnFoster, Who in Intel might be interested in this: http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2010/05/19/gnome-developer-training-at-guadec/ ?00:17
dnearyDawnFoster, Go to GUADEC & get 2 days intensive training in Linux developer tools & community practices for only €120000:17
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DawnFosternot sure. I can ask around.00:18
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dnearyThe interesting bit for me is the "learn to work with community projects, getting code upstream" - the social/political side of open source00:18
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dnearyThat, in the end of the day, people have the most trouble with00:18
DawnFosterto be honest, most of the people in our group have been working in the Linux kernel community & other OS communities for a while00:18
DawnFosterwe have a lot of this expertise in house00:19
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dnearyDawnFoster, Depends on the group, I bet... For sure the kernel guys are used to the kernel culture00:21
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DawnFosterright, but we also have people contributing to tons of other open source projects.00:22
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* TSCHAKeee feels masochistic, and attempts...again....to build a working meego with netbook ux00:32
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lbtdneary: mmm... who's going to translate wiki->drupal .... and how long is it going to add to the process to "get it right"00:51
* lbt favours "get it out" over "get it right"00:51
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lbtalthough maybe we should go for a big reveal on policy too... ;)00:52
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DawnFosterlbt: better yet, we could have a secret policy that we don't reveal at all :)00:53
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lbtoh, wait...00:53
DawnFosterlbt: I'm with you on getting it out vs. finding a perfect solution00:53
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lbthmm, how about "the wiki is authoritative until the drupal solution is in place"...00:54
DawnFosterlbt: what are we talking about in Drupal? A single page? how many pages? after we establish the policy, how often will it change?00:55
DawnFosterI'm guessing we can work something out & eventually get it in Drupal if that's what makes sense.00:55
lbthttp://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/00:56
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DawnFosterso, a billion pages (rough estimate)00:56
lbtso it has the potential to be large... and it is likely to be quite dynamic for months to come00:56
lbtso yes, that's about right ;)00:57
lbtI think maybe a hundred is a realistic estimate00:57
lbtI'd like to import fedora or suse policy as a starting point00:58
lbtbut we need to consider things like multi-user00:58
dnearylbt, 1. Get it out00:58
lbtdneary: yup...00:58
dneary2. Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V00:58
dneary(fix formatting as necessary)00:58
* lbt hasn't used drupal enough to know how links/tables/lists/headings convert00:59
lcuk[ctrl]+f, BLAH, [tab], meego, [ctrl+a] ;)00:59
dnearyReasonably OK00:59
dnearyThere's a wissywig editor00:59
lbteek00:59
lbtI'm mainly worried that we're bikeshedding anyway00:59
dnearyYou can copy HTML & paste it into the editor & it picks up ost of the formatting00:59
lbtthe real isssue is "the policy is mandatory"00:59
dnearyYou're dead right - get it out00:59
lbt"of course you can raise bugs against it"01:00
lbtonce we have a dictat on those points...01:00
dnearyYou might reasonably anchor the discussion by saying "OK - once it's validated, we'll push it to the CMS. Now - what changes are needed to get it to validated?01:00
lcuki think the larger the policy the harder it will be to find something sane that most are happy with.  what about policy just being expanded from a couple of paragraphs based on tsg input01:00
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lbtdneary: no01:01
lbtabsolutely not.01:01
lbtit's mandatory *now* on the wiki01:01
DawnFosterlcuk: let's start with input from maintainers / project leads (not TSG)01:01
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:01
lbtand as a package owner if you don't like the bug, change the policy via the process01:01
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lbtnight01:04
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* lcuk reads something and smiles01:05
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DawnFosterlcuk: dance and the world dances with you :)01:07
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lcuklol DawnFoster i posted that already :p01:07
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DawnFosterwatching you on Twitter in parallel - like alternate reality or something01:07
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lcukiwas gonna write a third one01:08
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lcuk"sing and the world tells you to STFU" (based on my beerbottles song)01:08
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lcukpizza hut ice cream is served too runny01:09
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ml-mobilepizza hut serves ice cream?01:09
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lcukml-mobile, sure01:10
lcukthey have an ice cream factory01:10
lcukunlimited refills01:10
lcuk:D01:10
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DawnFosterhence the watered down, runny ice cream :)01:10
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lcukthey give warm bowls tho and the ice cream is really overly soft01:10
lcukyeah01:10
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lcukjake loves it tho :D01:10
lcukhe was very reserved today only 1 bowl01:11
DawnFostermy boyfriend always scoops it and lets it sit until it gets runny - he likes it that way.01:11
DawnFosterit's gross imho :)01:11
lcukyeah, jake had a giddy fit on the way home too :D he was giggling at everythin01:12
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lcukE:TOOMUCHSWEETS01:12
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DawnFostergotta love kids amped up on sugar01:13
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lcuktracy was just as bad01:13
lcuk;)01:13
DawnFoster:)01:14
lcuksecond portion of chocolate cake today01:14
lcuk(she *says* that on your birthday you don't put on weight so you can eat anything)01:14
lcuki dont believe this personally01:14
andyph66i havent had cake or ice cream in like a year01:14
DawnFosterShe's right01:14
DawnFostervery wise :)01:14
lcuki have halved my sugar intake in the last month01:15
lcukwell, more than01:15
lcukgone from 2 1/2 spoonfuls in coffee to 101:15
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DawnFosterMy weakness is the local fried pie cart: http://twitter.com/whiffies01:15
DawnFostersounds gross, but it's delicious01:17
lcukare those suckers deep fried? :O01:17
lcukhttp://www.foodcartsportland.com/wp-images/2009/05/photo9-225x300.jpg01:17
lcukthe photo looks suspect01:17
TSCHAKeeeyes01:17
TSCHAKeeemmmm deep fried01:17
DawnFosterdeep fried - that's exactly what they look like01:17
DawnFosterthey actually don't soak up much grease01:18
DawnFosterthey only fry 3-4 min01:18
lcukwhat delights are inside?01:18
* lbt reads -dev in amazement.... apparently writing the policy on a wiki is a security issue...01:18
* lbt goes to bed, clearly dreaming already01:18
TSCHAKeeelcuk, speaking of fried stuff... http://www.facebook.com/#!/album.php?aid=171014&id=71695711401:18
DawnFosterI'm a bit of a health freak normally, but these are awesome01:18
TSCHAKeeelbt, WHAT?!01:18
DawnFosterI had blueberry pie last night01:18
TSCHAKeeeactually: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=171014&id=716957114&l=4e3c848e48 ;)01:18
lbtTSCHAKeee: "If we host final policy in the wiki, it can end up potentially becoming an unneeded security issue."01:19
DawnFosteralso raspberry, chocolate, cherry, apple, coconut, peach, etc. for fruit pie01:19
TSCHAKeeelbt, oh jesus #@($#@($@ christ.01:19
* TSCHAKeee goes in there with a baseball bat01:19
DawnFosterthey also have meat pies and vegetarian savory pies01:19
DawnFostermmmm, pie01:19
* lbt knows where he'd shove a pie right now....01:20
TSCHAKeeethat01:20
DawnFoster:)01:20
TSCHAKeeeis is mental01:20
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lbtthat chappy on -dev ...01:20
* lbt hacks the debian policy to say 'root password must always be "fred"'01:20
lbtWIN01:21
TSCHAKeeehahahaha01:21
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lcukno lbt, you dont want to get into an edit war about the correct capitalisation of your password01:21
lcukwe know "Fred" is the correct one01:21
lbtMr Dibbler to you01:22
inzMine is “password„01:22
lcuk:D01:22
TSCHAKeeeI guess they can't say what boot loader is going to be used, that would be a security issue01:22
TSCHAKeeemaybe put the ks files in rot1301:23
TSCHAKeeeTHAT WOULD BE SECURE!01:23
lcukit comes from assumed utilisation elsewhere01:23
TSCHAKeee:P :)01:23
inzTSCHAKeee, rot13 is obsolete, you should use rot26001:23
lcuksomewhere on the site a link to policy saying "only enter here if you follow the policy [here]"01:23
TSCHAKeeeinz, but KNOWING that rot260 would be used would be IN ITSELF a security rish!01:24
TSCHAKeeerisk! :)01:24
lbtTSCHAKeee: the argument is "anyone can edit a wiki so they might change the policy" ... which is classic heirarchical management thinking01:24
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TSCHAKeee*epic-facepalm*01:24
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lbt"don't let people do what they're not allowed to do"01:24
TSCHAKeeelbt, i guesss they've never heard of version control, huh?01:24
lbt"don't trust people"01:24
TSCHAKeeeon a community project01:24
TSCHAKeeeimagine!01:24
TSCHAKeeeIT'S THE LATEST THING!01:25
lbthave you ever tried to deploy a wiki in a corporate environment?01:25
TSCHAKeeelbt, repeatedly01:25
TSCHAKeeeyes01:25
lbtthey add access control #101:25
TSCHAKeeei can tell you some stories01:25
TSCHAKeeefidelity wnated to put every item in its own namespace01:25
lcuki do also (like you and others lbt) think having a fixed confirmed printable version of the known understood policy once created is a good thing.01:25
TSCHAKeeei had to spend hours explaining to them01:25
TSCHAKeeeWHY THAT WAS A BAD IDEA01:25
lbtlcuk: you know you can get wikipedia on a CDROM01:26
lcuksure lbt01:26
TSCHAKeeeand yes, I twisted Mediawiki to add ACLs the likes of which should NEVER01:26
TSCHAKeeehave been added01:26
lbtI'm not seriously saying the wiki is the right long term solution BTW.... but the underlying text->www technology is *so* not the point01:26
lbtanyhow... bedtime01:27
DawnFosternight lbt01:27
lcuknight david01:27
lbtand I got some django credits tonight... so maemo.org OBS tomorrow :)01:27
lbto/01:27
TSCHAKeeeyayz, later.01:27
lcuklbt you need creditz o_O01:28
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Termanagood morning01:52
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lcukkitty related type:   http://www.meeyo.com02:24
lcuktypo02:24
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alonshello02:47
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Guest38335Is the official release available today?04:22
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* timeless_mbp ponders04:41
timeless_mbpis there any remotely useful way to split repo.meego.com? :)04:41
* timeless_mbp is rather annoyed that indexing isn't done yet04:41
* timeless_mbp will probably have to write a merge tool this weekend04:41
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* DocScrutinizer shows timeless_mbp the whip05:22
timeless_mbpwhat should i do w/ it? :)05:22
DocScrutinizerno idea?05:23
DocScrutinizerI'll send you a few chicks to tell ya05:23
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: do you do any programming?05:23
DocScrutinizerprogramming my own mess every day05:23
DocScrutinizerU know I'm a robot05:24
DocScrutinizerself organizing neural network05:24
DocScrutinizersometimes a N900 or similar device is left over inside shield radius, so it gets organized as well05:27
DocScrutinizeror assimilated05:27
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neopsisdoes meego support ion yet?09:07
Stskeepswell, tell me a bit about the processor09:08
StskeepsIA, ARM?09:08
neopsisi have a hp mini 31109:10
TSCHAKeeehe's talking about atom + nvidia GPU09:11
neopsisintel n270 with nvidia ion09:11
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neopsisexactly09:11
TSCHAKeeeinstead of a GMA09:11
neopsisso right now it's only support GMA GPU?09:11
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poutsianybody know why repo.meego.com doesn't provide the debianizations for e.g. syslinux, only the upstream sources and binary packages?09:42
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Stskeepswell, it is packages built against meego, which is rpm based..09:42
poutsisurely not the tools?09:43
poutsii'm talking about http://repo.meego.com/tools/repos/ubuntu/9.10/ and such09:43
Stskeepsah09:44
poutsisorry, should've been clearer09:44
Stskeepswell, file a bug if there's no deb version09:44
poutsino, there is, but it's annoying because the binary package versioning scheme differs from ubuntu's, which causes apt to want to downgrade syslinux09:44
Stskeepsah09:45
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poutsiotoh, maybe that is a bug :p09:45
poutsioff to report09:45
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Corsacyeah they're missing the epoch09:46
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Corsacpoutsi: otoh are you sure you need them?09:46
poutsiwell, lucid's syslinux is too old09:47
Corsacok09:47
Corsac(I find that weird though)09:47
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Corsacdebian testing has 3.8609:47
poutsii tried building from upstream with the older ubuntu debianizations but it wouldn't work09:47
Corsacthough we didn't even freeze yet, but...09:47
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poutsiyeah, lucid's is at 3.6309:47
Corsacwow09:47
CorsacI guess you can report a bug on the tools, asking for the epoch to be added09:48
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poutsiyep, and to provide source packages if possible09:48
Stskeepssource packages not being provided is a OBS bug09:48
Stskeepswe had same problem in Mer09:48
poutsiahhh okay09:49
Stskeepsnot malice, just bug :)09:49
Stskeepsit builds them and everything09:49
Corsachttp://repo.meego.com/tools/repos/ubuntu/9.10/syslinux_3.85.orig.tar.gz09:49
Corsacthe source seems available09:49
Corsac(not the dsc, but still)09:49
poutsiCorsac, yeah, but that's just the upstream source without the debianizations09:49
Corsacbut yeah I agree09:50
Corsacthat'd help provide patches against the packaging09:50
poutsinow is this an sdk bug or a dev tools bug :p09:50
Corsacdev tools I'd say09:51
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poutsithere, #235709:56
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Stskeepsmorn slaine11:29
slainehowdy howdy11:29
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pupnik_thinking of Meego: a quote seemed apropos11:31
pupnik_Mal:"I don't plan on any shooting taking place during this job." Jayne:"Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar."11:31
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ttoneI have a doubt regarding the meego official gstreamer source, I could find two separate meego gstreamer hostings, one is at repo.meego.com (contributed by mobilin) and other is on git repo (contributed by maemo). Which of these is used in meego platform?12:21
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lbtttone: also ask on the -dev mailing list12:30
ttonelbt, sure..12:31
slainethe repo's have http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/preview/core/repos/source/gstreamer-0.10.28-2.9.src.rpm12:32
ttoneslaine, these were contributed by mobilin, but the git repositories (contributed by maemo) are on older versions of gstreamer. Any idea which will be used in meego or will they be merged?12:34
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slainettone: sorry, I totally misread your question12:36
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ttoneslaine, no problem12:39
slaineso do you know that the version in the src rpm doesn't match the git repo ?12:40
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ttoneslaine, it doen't match + the fixes/patches are different12:42
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slainedefinitly a bug12:44
slaineas lbt suggested, point it out on the -dev list and file a bugzilla entry12:44
slaineat a guess, the rpms that are currently being used, will be the final versions12:44
slaineso the gitorious repo's are probably wrong here ???12:45
ttoneso, are they supposed to be matching?12:45
* lbt wonders what the policy is on this...12:45
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Stskeepsit is a bit funky really12:45
slaineStskeeps: have you any ideas ?12:45
Stskeepscos there's meego harmattan and meego moblin12:45
slaineI thought that approach was canned ?12:45
jusliukkslaine, using .28 as final may not fly with maemo folks, let me raise the issue there - looks like an oversight12:46
slainejusliukk: I hope we don't end up with different base os libs for netbook/handset12:46
jusliukkslaine, that is definitely not the goal :(12:46
Stskeepswe don't have different gstreamer in meego/n900 for sure12:46
Stskeepswe use whatever is in trunk12:46
jusliukkthe hope is of course to try to stick with latest stable upstream, eventually12:47
slaineotherwise we'll be right back where I said we'd be originally (MeeGo for Netbooks == Moblin 2.2++, Meego for Handsets == Harmattan++)12:47
X-Fadeslaine: I don't think the problem lies in harmatan++12:48
slaine?12:48
X-FadeI think that what lies after harmattan will be properly aligned.12:48
X-FadeBut for harmattan it is a bit more tricky.12:48
jusliukkguys, if you find this kind of version mismatches, please bring them up here asap so we can try to synchronize still...12:48
slainejusliukk: I doubt there's time for that, meego1.0 for netbooks was branched weeks ago12:49
Stskeepsto be exact: meego 1.012:49
Stskeepsnetbook is just a funky repo on top12:49
slainegood12:49
jusliukkthere is always time, if there is the will ;)12:49
jusliukkat least up until the release has been made12:49
slaineso then, the issue here is that the git repo is not what's being used to make the src rpms ?12:50
Stskeepsright12:50
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slaineso is the rpm version pulled from the arm repo the same as the rpm pulled from the x86 repo ?12:51
slaineIf they're both the same, then it's hopefully just a gitorious oversight12:51
Stskeepsit should be, but the bi-weekly are out of sync atm12:51
Stskeepssame source, same rpm result12:51
slaineStskeeps: surely that'd only reflect minor versions12:51
Stskeepsslaine: bi-weekly for arm is stuck at 31st march, ia32 isn't12:52
slaineI don't follow12:52
Stskeepsnm12:52
Stskeepsthere's a bug in whatever syncs Trunk to public.12:52
slainethe packages haven't been updated since the 31st publically, but the internal builds are mostly insync ?12:52
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Stskeepsyes12:53
StskeepsOBS doesn't do preferential treatment :)12:54
slaineItem 121 on the glitch list from working behind curtains12:55
slaine"ta da, look what we made"12:55
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Stskeepsglitch list doesn't sound like a bad idea12:56
Stskeepsi mean, we are learning, nokia and intel and learning how these things affect open development12:56
Stskeepsit is a useful knowledge to have :)12:56
X-FadeLike the papercuts list for Ubuntu ;)12:57
slainePut one on the wiki12:57
Stskeepsor make a presenation for the confernece12:57
Stskeeps"What did we learn from the big reveal process"12:57
Stskeeps:P12:57
w00t_"it sucks"12:58
w00t_oops12:58
* w00t_ hides12:58
slaineSo long as imad and valterri do it right and say "Ta daaaa" when 1.0 is unveiled, it'll be all worth while12:58
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Stskeepsand it has a hello kitty theme, obviously12:59
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lbtOBS *can* do preferential treatment BTW13:00
Stskeepssssh13:00
Stskeeps:P13:00
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lbt:D13:01
lbthello kitty?   It's all worth it!13:01
X-Fadelbt: http://breet.com/maemo/valentine.png :)13:04
X-FadeWe already had sweet themes before ;)13:05
lbtany for the n900... Denise will be surprised!13:05
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pupnik_why can't we just ~flow~ with newer kernels13:12
pupnik_being slow was very uncool for nokia 770 and N80013:13
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Valianybody know how to build a single package for MeeGo in PC with out going to chroot to image ? or How i can copy the src.rpm in general filesystem to chroot to build in chroot ?13:27
Valii have seen http://wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment related to building the MeeGo package in chroot but for me i am not able toaccess the src.rpm file general filesystem to copy into chroot13:29
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glinpuscp it from outside the chroot into it, before chrooting, or bind mount an area from the parent filesystem into the chroot13:31
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Valihow can i do that is there any detailed procedure available ?13:33
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Valiho can i cp it to chroot what is path to chroot13:37
Vali?13:37
Stskeepsyou can use /parentroot to access your outside file system13:38
timeless_mbpVali: so13:38
Valiin parentpath there is only home folder nothing is there...13:38
timeless_mbpdo you understand how your file system is shaped?13:38
Valinot fully ..13:39
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: hey, which packages are you poking these days in meego?13:41
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timeless_mbpi'm wondering if mxr.moego.org/meego/ has helped you yet13:41
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Valiok now i have seen the mounting path /var/tmp of image now i will try once again13:48
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ValiStsKeeps : if iwas build any package through chroot in arm-image is it will build for ARM ( where the tool chains will be ?).14:00
Stskeepsthey're native :)14:01
Stskeepsyou're running the actual gcc14:01
Valiyou mean gcc for arm ?14:01
Stskeepsyes14:02
Stskeepsit is a bad development model but what existed back then14:02
Valisorry still i don't understand it is building for ARM or x86 ?14:04
Stskeepsbuilding for arm14:04
Valiok14:04
Valimeans prmbuild is utilizing the gcc present in the ARM image right ?14:05
Stskeepsyes14:05
Valiok14:05
Valierror : when i type rpmbuild -ba ~/rpmbuild/SPECS/ConsoleKit.spec it was saying that " bash: rpmbuild: command not found "14:08
Stskeepsreally?14:09
Valiyes14:09
Stskeepsin the chroot?14:09
Valibash-4.0# rpmbuild -ba ~/rpmbuild/SPECS/ConsoleKit.spec14:09
Valibash: rpmbuild: command not found14:09
Valiyes14:09
Stskeepswhat image are you using?14:10
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Valii am chrooting  in meego-preview-netbook-core-20100330-001.usbimg14:11
Stskeepsah14:11
Valiis there any problem with that image ?14:12
Stskeepsyou need to yum install rpmbuild and such then14:12
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Valibash-4.0# yum install rpmbuildsh: line 1: 26181 Aborted                 /usr/bin/gconftool-2 -g /system/proxy/mode /system/proxy/autoconfig_url /system/http_proxy/host /system/http_proxy/port /system/proxy/secure_host /system/proxy/secure_port /system/proxy/ftp_host /system/proxy/ftp_port /system/proxy/socks_host /system/proxy/socks_port /system/http_proxy/ignore_hosts 2>&114:13
ValiSetting up Install Process14:13
ValiNo package rpmbuild available.14:13
ValiNothing to do14:13
Valibash-4.0#14:13
Valiit is showing error  as show above14:13
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Valisorry for above dump actually i tried to copy single line it  juast copied entire14:14
Stskeepshttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/n900/images/meego-codedrop-ia32-developer-201003311106.img.bz214:14
Stskeepstry that one, after bzip2- -d'ing it14:14
Stskeepsbzip2 -d, that is14:14
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Valiok14:45
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* lbt likes "battery use" on the android16:06
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* Corsac agrees16:12
Corsac(not sure how much it's accurate though)16:12
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* lbt sneaks a look at the code... "system_use = system_use/2; foreach app app.distribute_missing_power();"16:14
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* slaine wonders if a release is imminent. 16:55
Stskeepsthey'll probably introduce fremantle PR1.2, meego 1.0, handset UX, duke nukem forever and flash 10 for maemo5 in one week16:55
slaine10.116:55
Stskeepsand all the people on talk.maemo.org will have a heartattack16:56
slainelol16:56
slaineand I can meego it up at a bbq this weekend16:56
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pupnik_Stskeeps: and deliver my pandora17:12
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smokuand then you open it :)17:17
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lcuk2shhh Jartza we are playing pacman on google.com frontpage18:49
Jartzaright on, sry :)18:50
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lcuk2achipa, theres probably stats for that.  luckily i did a lot of work before even finding out about it19:06
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Stskeepsindeed20:09
slaineA good productive day for once20:09
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slaineis it possible to trigger hal events via a commandline tool to test some code ?20:15
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Nadleyhi23:09
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lbtfyi http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-lpic1-v3-102-5/index.html23:41
lbt(learn rpm/yum)23:41
pupnikoh just going to ask23:41
pupnikty23:41
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