IRC log of #meego for Wednesday, 2010-03-24

*** wazd1 has quit IRC00:00
*** wazd has joined #meego00:01
*** ptl has quit IRC00:01
*** wazd has quit IRC00:03
*** ctusar has quit IRC00:04
*** hbons has quit IRC00:11
*** megabast has quit IRC00:13
*** defor has joined #meego00:13
*** ptl has joined #meego00:13
*** ptl has quit IRC00:13
*** ptl has joined #meego00:13
*** wazd has joined #meego00:17
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC00:19
*** bleeter has joined #meego00:21
*** t_s_o has quit IRC00:22
*** xaiki has quit IRC00:31
*** xaiki has joined #meego00:32
*** dvalfre has quit IRC00:33
*** defor has quit IRC00:39
*** mlfoster has quit IRC00:40
*** rsalveti has quit IRC00:55
*** smaug____ has joined #meego00:58
*** smaug___ has quit IRC01:00
*** smaug____ is now known as smaug___01:00
*** anotnac has joined #meego01:02
*** nona has quit IRC01:05
*** puffin has quit IRC01:05
*** smyows has quit IRC01:07
*** lbt has quit IRC01:07
*** lbt has joined #meego01:08
*** jophish has quit IRC01:13
*** lbt has quit IRC01:15
*** bdale has joined #meego01:16
*** dpino has quit IRC01:16
*** hbons has joined #meego01:16
*** trip0 has joined #meego01:16
*** anotnac has quit IRC01:17
*** dharman has quit IRC01:19
*** trbs has quit IRC01:24
*** cardinal has joined #meego01:29
*** hcarrega has quit IRC01:31
*** cardinal is now known as hcarrega01:32
*** wizkoder has quit IRC01:32
*** Openfree has joined #meego01:34
*** zs has quit IRC01:34
*** cardinal has joined #meego01:34
*** hcarrega has quit IRC01:37
*** cardinal is now known as hcarrega01:38
*** zaheerm-lp has joined #meego01:41
*** DeuX has joined #meego01:43
DeuXHi, I'm really really new here... is there any where I can find list of devices using MeeGo yet ?01:44
*** DawnFoster has quit IRC01:45
leinirDeuX: No - seeing as there's no MeeGo to use yet ;)01:45
DeuXhi Leinir :)01:46
leinirHello :)01:46
DeuXI am kinda hyped :)01:46
leinir*giggles* Don't blame you :)01:46
DeuXI am looking for a touch based device... base on QT will definitely be excellent01:47
DeuXI cross my finger that MeeGo can be virtualized easily on at least vmware01:47
DeuXand the download site is also empty ? or am I looking at the wrong thing ?01:47
leinirNo, you're looking in the right place - but as i said, there's no MeeGo to download yet :)01:47
leinirThey're still working on getting the code ready for public eyes :)01:48
*** GAN900 has quit IRC01:48
DeuXany idea whether I can run in any virtualized env ?01:48
leinirWhen it gets released, i suspect that would be doable, yeah :)01:49
*** heffer has joined #meego01:49
leinirDeuX: What sort of size device are you after? :)01:50
*** lainwir3d has quit IRC01:51
jykaeI guess there won't be big differences to maemo in the first release, if I'm right01:51
leinirall that's speculation, and we've really no way of knowing yet :)01:53
jykaeright01:53
leiniri've heard people speculate that there really won't be big differences to moblin in the first release...01:53
*** thiago_home has quit IRC01:54
*** TheAppleMan has joined #meego01:54
leinirand with the two platforms being sort of different, that's unlikely to both be true ;)01:54
CosmoHilli think there is a meeting tomorrow where release timeline is discussed01:54
leinirThe first meeting of the technical steering group's tomorrow, yeah :)01:54
CosmoHill20:00 UTC01:55
leinirSo, in twenty hours and five minutes :)01:56
leinir(for those without functioning digital watches ;) )01:56
DeuXI'm looking for some table size device01:56
jykaewaiting eagerly to get hands on to development kit :) I want to learn and make meego programs01:56
DeuXsomething like iPad kinda size :P01:56
DeuXor netbook ?01:57
leinirDeuX: Right, well in that case i guess the Touchbook might be an interesting possibility :)01:57
CosmoHillHP do tablets01:57
CosmoHillguy at uni has one01:57
CosmoHillgod forbid it would run something other than windows...01:57
*** hurewitz has joined #meego01:58
DeuXtouchbook ?01:59
leinirwww.alwaysinnovating.com01:59
*** bpeel is now known as bpeel_away01:59
DeuXinteresting02:00
leinir(i've got one - really nice piece of kit, but needs meego ;) )02:00
DeuXthanks leinir02:00
*** mitsutaka_ has quit IRC02:00
*** fredy has quit IRC02:00
DeuXleinir: does it has Qt supprt built in ? or at least C++ compilier so that I can extend ?02:01
*** smaug___ has quit IRC02:01
leinirit sort of does - but that's why i say it needs meego :)02:01
*** ml-mobile has quit IRC02:02
CosmoHillDeuX: maybe a modbook02:02
leinirAIOS (the ånström variant on it) is a little odd... and while it does have an ubuntu variant on it as well in the more recent versions of the OS image, it's still, well... ubuntu :)02:02
*** stormer has quit IRC02:03
leinirBut with the hardware in it basically being the same as in the N900, it would be relatively straight forward to get meego on there, from what i understand :)02:04
*** cardinal has joined #meego02:04
CosmoHillI've worked out that I have todo 19,000 words next year02:05
CosmoHillshould i be scared?02:05
*** hcarrega has quit IRC02:06
*** hcarrega has joined #meego02:07
*** GAN900 has joined #meego02:07
*** hcarrega_ has joined #meego02:08
*** cardinal has quit IRC02:09
*** hcarrega has quit IRC02:10
*** zaheerm-lp has quit IRC02:10
*** smaug has quit IRC02:10
*** hcarrega has joined #meego02:10
*** felipec has quit IRC02:12
*** sirpengi has quit IRC02:13
*** GAN900 has quit IRC02:14
*** hcarrega_ has quit IRC02:14
*** hcarrega_ has joined #meego02:16
*** hcarrega_ has quit IRC02:16
DeuXanyway gotta go.... see ya all02:17
DeuXbe back later02:17
*** dvoid_ has quit IRC02:18
*** hcarrega has quit IRC02:18
*** fnordianslip has quit IRC02:19
*** anselmolsm has quit IRC02:20
*** puffin has joined #meego02:20
*** DeuX has quit IRC02:21
*** cardinal has joined #meego02:25
*** cardinal is now known as hcarrega02:26
*** masACC has joined #meego02:26
CosmoHillbye02:27
*** CosmoHill has quit IRC02:27
*** |R_ has joined #meego02:28
*** frals_ has joined #meego02:29
*** red_ has joined #meego02:29
*** trHD has joined #meego02:29
*** jmk_ has joined #meego02:30
*** Wizzup_ has joined #meego02:30
*** smaug has joined #meego02:30
*** frals has quit IRC02:30
*** frals_ is now known as frals02:30
*** frals has joined #meego02:30
*** andre__ has joined #meego02:31
*** wasikevin has joined #meego02:31
*** maswan has quit IRC02:31
*** |R has quit IRC02:31
*** red has quit IRC02:31
*** trHD_ has quit IRC02:31
*** jmk has quit IRC02:31
*** andre_ has quit IRC02:31
*** diegohcg has quit IRC02:31
*** gladiac has quit IRC02:31
*** Wizzup has quit IRC02:31
*** kov has quit IRC02:31
*** diegohcg_ has joined #meego02:31
*** gladiac_ has joined #meego02:31
*** kov has joined #meego02:35
*** edisson has quit IRC02:35
*** GAN900 has joined #meego02:36
*** nomadalien has quit IRC02:41
*** sirpengi has joined #meego02:43
*** zhenhua1 has joined #meego02:43
*** Jackiewu has left #meego02:43
*** ctusar has joined #meego02:44
*** solarion has quit IRC02:47
*** solarion has joined #meego02:47
*** mitsutaka_ has joined #meego02:56
*** mattedm has joined #meego03:05
*** achipa_irssi has quit IRC03:08
*** alecrim has quit IRC03:10
*** glin has joined #meego03:16
*** heffer has quit IRC03:17
*** nalle has quit IRC03:23
*** javispedro has left #meego03:28
*** sheepbat has joined #meego03:29
*** gaveen has quit IRC03:30
*** clintcan has joined #meego03:31
*** orbarron has quit IRC03:31
*** orbarron1 has joined #meego03:31
*** koupsa has quit IRC03:34
*** Mandor_ has joined #meego03:36
*** Mandor_ has quit IRC03:37
*** nalle has joined #meego03:37
*** gaveen has joined #meego03:42
*** mattedm has quit IRC03:42
*** nalle has quit IRC03:45
*** nalle has joined #meego03:46
*** sirpengi has quit IRC03:53
*** kanibalv has quit IRC03:55
*** kanibalv has joined #meego03:58
*** bleeter has quit IRC04:02
*** rsalveti has joined #meego04:03
*** clintcan has left #meego04:05
*** mikkov has quit IRC04:06
*** vpoluceno has joined #meego04:06
*** yanli has joined #meego04:06
*** hurewitz has quit IRC04:09
*** mikkov has joined #meego04:13
*** Openfree has quit IRC04:13
*** hbons has quit IRC04:21
*** Edward_ has joined #meego04:22
*** hbons has joined #meego04:24
*** Openfree has joined #meego04:25
*** Openfree has quit IRC04:28
Edward_hello everyone04:28
*** Edward_ has quit IRC04:30
*** hbons has quit IRC04:38
*** hbons has joined #meego04:39
*** Openfree has joined #meego04:45
*** Jackiew1 has joined #meego04:46
*** Openfree has quit IRC04:48
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC04:53
*** mchua_afk is now known as mchua05:00
*** puffin has quit IRC05:03
*** Openfree has joined #meego05:05
*** eggonlea has joined #meego05:07
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #meego05:16
*** mchua is now known as mchua_afk05:18
*** Openfree` has quit IRC05:21
*** Openfree` has joined #meego05:24
*** |R_ is now known as |R05:59
*** DrZeus has joined #meego06:03
DrZeushi all06:03
*** Moku has quit IRC06:03
*** Shanita has joined #meego06:03
*** ieatlint has left #meego06:06
*** wazd has quit IRC06:26
*** mikhailz has joined #meego06:26
*** mikhailz has joined #meego06:26
*** njsf has quit IRC06:29
*** SunilThaha has joined #meego06:38
*** baldr has quit IRC06:42
*** mikhailz has quit IRC06:43
*** mikhailz has joined #meego06:44
*** mikhailz has joined #meego06:44
*** DeuX has joined #meego06:58
*** bergie has joined #meego07:02
*** t_s_o has joined #meego07:03
*** DrZeus has quit IRC07:08
*** vpoluceno has quit IRC07:15
*** smellyfis has joined #meego07:15
*** xaiki has quit IRC07:18
*** xaiki has joined #meego07:19
*** smellyfis has left #meego07:23
*** smellyfis has joined #meego07:23
*** smellyfis has quit IRC07:24
*** smellyfis has joined #meego07:24
*** mikhailz has quit IRC07:30
*** xaiki has quit IRC07:31
*** xaiki has joined #meego07:32
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC07:33
*** bleeter has joined #meego07:33
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #meego07:33
*** bergie has quit IRC07:36
*** ayoy has joined #meego07:36
*** jasonhu has joined #meego07:40
*** Terje1 has joined #meego07:46
*** bergie has joined #meego07:52
*** Votan|off is now known as Votan07:57
*** ubIx has joined #meego07:58
*** ubIx_ has quit IRC08:01
*** slonopotamus has joined #meego08:03
*** SunilThaha has quit IRC08:05
*** srag has joined #meego08:06
*** DeuX has quit IRC08:06
*** SunilThaha has joined #meego08:07
*** microlith has quit IRC08:09
*** microlith has joined #meego08:15
*** puffin has joined #meego08:17
*** zalan has joined #meego08:19
*** tmikola has joined #meego08:22
*** jpal has joined #meego08:24
*** Bactius has joined #meego08:29
*** sheepbat has quit IRC08:41
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC08:42
*** semi has joined #meego08:47
*** heliocastro has joined #meego08:54
*** t_s_o has quit IRC08:55
*** Bactius has quit IRC08:55
*** aboyer has joined #meego09:01
*** lbt has joined #meego09:01
*** andre__ is now known as andre09:03
*** thiago_home has joined #meego09:03
*** hhartz has joined #meego09:06
*** pohly has joined #meego09:06
*** lpotter has joined #meego09:07
*** zaheerm has quit IRC09:10
*** zaheerm has joined #meego09:10
*** qgil has joined #meego09:14
Stskeepsmorning qgil :)09:14
qgilheya09:15
* thiago_home looks at the internal Nokia meego mailing list after one day not reading it and wonders if someone caused a flamewar09:16
thiago_homenot even the RPM vs DEB discussion caused 100 emails in one day, did it?09:17
Stskeepsdon't think so, but people had to join the list first09:18
*** anttimo has joined #meego09:18
*** iss has joined #meego09:20
thiago_homesame thing about this one09:21
thiago_homeI sent qgil an email about it on Monday09:21
thiago_homebut, then again, Nokia people don't have ML skills: they are cross-posting to other MLs and doing reply-to-all09:21
Stskeepsqgil: added you with founder flag and DawnFoster as op on #meego-meeting so you can set moderated channel mode tonight - I would have given founder flag to both of you, but only 4 founders is allowed :P09:21
*** mikhailz has joined #meego09:22
*** mikhailz has joined #meego09:22
*** Chris22 has joined #meego09:23
*** bergie has quit IRC09:23
qgilStskeeps: is there anything I should learn? I have never got meaningful permission in a IRC channel...09:24
*** dvoid_ has joined #meego09:25
thiago_homeon Freenode, you almost never need it09:25
*** tmikola has quit IRC09:25
Stskeepsqgil: sec, preparing a crash course09:25
thiago_homeStskeeps: just make sure the channel isn't mlocked to -m09:25
Stskeepsthiago_home: yeah, checking that09:25
Stskeepsqgil: /msg chanserv op #meego-meeting  ops you, /mode #meego-meeting +m  sets moderated mode (only ops and voices can speak), /mode #meego-meeting +v nickname makes someone have voice flag, .. at the end of it all, /mode #meego-meeting -m09:26
Stskeepsqgil: if there's any issues during the meeting feel free to prod me09:27
qgilStskeeps: sure09:27
*** TigerTael has joined #meego09:27
*** Chris22 has left #meego09:28
qgilthiago_home: yesterday night I got again the question about Qt governance - second time in 2 weeks and nobody had asked me that ever before09:28
qgilthiago_home: and from another FDO prominent09:29
*** sirpengi has joined #meego09:29
*** hhartz_ has joined #meego09:30
*** hbons has quit IRC09:31
thiago_homecontribution model info is online09:31
thiago_homepoint them there09:32
thiago_homesuggestions on how to improve are all welcome09:32
*** hbons has joined #meego09:33
*** hhartz has quit IRC09:34
*** hhartz_ has quit IRC09:35
*** Shanita has quit IRC09:36
*** Moku has joined #meego09:37
GAN900Internal lists. Open indeed. :rolleyes:09:37
*** niqt has joined #meego09:38
thiago_homeGAN900: huh?09:38
thiago_homeEVERY company has internal lists09:38
thiago_homethis is an internal list for meego discussion09:38
thiago_homeso what?09:38
thiago_homewe have one to discuss the competition09:38
thiago_homewe have one to discuss open source09:38
thiago_homewe have one to discuss sport in Oslo09:39
*** robsta has joined #meego09:40
RST38hAh you conspiring bastards!09:40
* RST38h goes to find some tar and feathers =)09:41
Stskeepsconspiring about making meego summit a sports event in oslo, obviously09:41
Stskeeps;)09:41
RST38hMore seriously though, I doubt there is going any "open qt governance", especially considering that Qt is being used in Symbian as well09:41
Stskeepswhat does open governance mean anyway? democracy doesn't work for sure :P09:42
RST38hStskeeps: I doubt people who advocate it ever think of what it means09:42
Anssi__Open source is not surely a democracy :)09:43
RST38hDetails are boring and cause all kinds of ugly consequences :)09:43
*** thiago_home has quit IRC09:43
*** petur has joined #meego09:43
StskeepsAnssi__: it all bends down to commit access :P09:44
Anssi__Stskeeps, yes, and that is a good thing, focus is on doing things.09:45
Stskeepsyeah09:45
* Stskeeps is a big fan of that you have a right to complain about things after contributing (or trying to)09:45
Stskeeps:P09:45
Stskeepsbut not before09:46
GAN900thiago, then the "everything will happen in the open in MeeGo" refrain I keep hearing should probably be dialed down.09:50
StskeepsGAN900: if it's discussion and not decision-making by the project, i think they do have a right to discuss things internally as well without being afraid of NDA breaches..09:51
GAN900Stskeeps, oh, I don't disagree09:51
*** puffin has quit IRC09:51
GAN900Waking up at 3 in the morning for no reason and reading insanity on Talk tends to put me in the trolling mood.09:52
Stskeepsoh, right, voting09:52
*** Openfree has quit IRC09:52
* Stskeeps ponders to vote by merit instead of mission09:52
GAN900It's just vaguely hypocritical after all the talk I keep hearing. ;)09:52
*** Plektra_ is now known as Plektra09:55
*** prr_ has left #meego09:56
* Stskeeps just hopes the best for the bootstrap tonight09:56
*** ysyrota has joined #meego09:56
*** RST38h has quit IRC09:57
GAN900I suspect a lot of people will be hugely disappointed.09:57
Stskeepsat least we'll know by then09:59
Stskeepsand people can then take situation to heart, fork, fight, etc09:59
*** RST38h has joined #meego10:01
Anssi__GAN900, there are always alternative platforms. Too early to cry for closeness, it is how developers make it.10:04
GAN900Anssi__, don't worry about convincing me. I'm just trolling idly. ;)10:04
Anssi__i am trying convince myself too ;)10:05
*** mikhas has joined #meego10:07
*** Openfree has joined #meego10:10
*** robsta has quit IRC10:11
*** rcc has joined #meego10:12
*** niqt has quit IRC10:12
*** dpino has joined #meego10:12
*** robsta has joined #meego10:13
*** rcc has quit IRC10:13
*** rcc has joined #meego10:16
*** dvoid_ has quit IRC10:19
*** niqt has joined #meego10:19
*** tekojo has joined #meego10:19
*** tekojo has joined #meego10:19
*** Moku has quit IRC10:20
*** Moku has joined #meego10:23
*** akeripper has quit IRC10:24
*** akeripper has joined #meego10:25
qgilI guess in free software projects governance = roadmapping10:30
qgilbut roadmaping in free software projects is not always the same as roadmapping in a company roadmap10:30
qgilbut then you have free software projects driven by a company10:30
qgilso... how is roadmapping there?  :)10:30
*** Reines has joined #meego10:31
qgilin free software projects governance is also (and actually more important than roadmapping) commit rights10:31
qgilso...  OSS governance = commit rights + roadmapping?10:32
qgilGAN900: the internal discussion thiago refers to makes sense inside Nokia10:33
qgilGAN900: if it would be public you would be rolling your eyes even more10:33
qgilGAN900: saying "why can't they figure out this before?"10:33
GAN900Yes, qgil, I get it. Goes back to that confusing Harmattan stuff.10:33
robstaqgil: commit rights != maintainership10:33
Anssi__sounds like sifting from chain of command to politics.10:33
* GAN900 <- trolling10:33
robstacommit rights don't mean much if you're not the maintainer10:34
*** bergie has joined #meego10:34
Anssi__participating is key word10:34
Anssi__keyword10:34
qgilso... OSS governance = maintenance - simple as that10:34
GAN900Having a voice seems reasonably open enough in a company run open source project.10:34
*** heliocastro has quit IRC10:34
*** dimastty has joined #meego10:35
GAN900Don't need to steer or have final say, but having A say is important.10:35
*** heliocastro has joined #meego10:35
*** heliocastro has joined #meego10:35
qgilGAN900: having A say does depend on your involvement developing or deployeing a piece of software10:35
qgilGAN900: I think Qt has already that level10:35
Anssi__is symbian on that level too?10:36
*** Moku has quit IRC10:38
qgilAnssi__: http://www.symbian.org/members/member-programs/governance10:40
*** zaheerm-lp has joined #meego10:42
*** dneary has joined #meego10:43
Anssi__council look very closed in terms of represented communities.10:43
*** nicu has joined #meego10:43
StskeepsGAN900: i wonder if a political talk ban on election week would be good10:45
Stskeeps:P10:45
GAN900Stskeeps, as far as?10:45
Stskeepsas in giving the voters peace to think about the candidates - we have no political discussion while an election is on, here :P10:46
GAN900Stskeeps, oh, the thread.10:46
GAN900Yeah, bizarre10:46
qgilthiago writes "Yes, I added that warning in Qt 4.6" (if all product managers would have 10% of Thiago's technical experience have no doubt this would be a better world)10:47
GAN900I'll just stick to palm greasing and blackmail, then. :P10:47
Anssi__i think this is better link for foss governance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_governance10:47
qgilAnssi__: "better link"? you asked for Symbian governance  :)10:48
qgilAnssi__: "Some envision this form of governance as a post-national "virtual state" governing structure"10:49
qgilsorry but with my European background I have difficulties readiong after that point10:49
Anssi__qgil, not really link, just you opinion how OSS governance work on different developer communities, e.g. Symbian and Qt10:49
qgillet's have a 100 post thread about OSS governance!  ;)10:50
*** jpetersen has joined #meego10:50
*** fnordianslip has joined #meego10:51
*** ysyrota has quit IRC10:51
*** mitsutaka_ has quit IRC11:00
*** tackat_ has joined #meego11:00
*** danielwilms has joined #meego11:01
*** Wizzup_ is now known as Wizzup11:04
*** Wizzup is now known as Wizzup_11:04
*** Wizzup_ is now known as Wizzup11:04
*** Moku has joined #meego11:06
*** jasonhu has left #meego11:07
*** achipa has joined #meego11:07
*** TigerTael has quit IRC11:09
*** wasikevin has quit IRC11:10
*** pvanhoof has joined #meego11:10
*** dharman has joined #meego11:11
*** aquatix has quit IRC11:11
*** TigerTael has joined #meego11:11
*** tackat_ has quit IRC11:12
*** wasikevin has joined #meego11:13
*** jfding has quit IRC11:16
*** yanli has quit IRC11:17
*** fnordianslip has quit IRC11:18
*** badone has joined #meego11:20
*** bfree has quit IRC11:20
*** sirpengi has quit IRC11:24
*** townxelliot has joined #meego11:26
*** heliocastro has quit IRC11:29
*** heliocastro has joined #meego11:30
*** hunger_t has joined #meego11:30
*** FunkyPenguin has quit IRC11:30
*** zs has joined #meego11:31
*** dazo_afk is now known as dazo11:33
*** hunger has quit IRC11:33
*** bfree has joined #meego11:38
*** Moku has quit IRC11:38
*** Moku has joined #meego11:40
*** jfernandez has joined #meego11:40
*** chemfy has joined #meego11:41
*** achipa has quit IRC11:45
*** SunilThaha has quit IRC11:48
qgilquestion from a rpm ignorant: do Fedora or OpenSuse have an equivalent to http://wiki.debian.org/DebianExperimental ?11:53
Stskeepswell, they have many seperate repositories instead i think, where debian centers around one11:54
*** florian_kc has joined #meego11:55
*** florian_kc is now known as florian11:56
zaheerm-lpqgil, fedora has rawhide11:57
zaheerm-lpqgil, not sure about suse11:57
mmeeksqgil: openSUSE has openSUSE:Factory11:57
mmeeksqgil: which is the latest, greatest bleeding edge stuff.11:57
*** bpeel_away is now known as bpeel12:00
*** masACC is now known as maswan12:00
*** adam has joined #meego12:01
qgilzaheerm-lp mmeeks thanks, that was quick12:02
zaheerm-lpqgil, yw12:02
qgil(and no wonder my search skills abnd my Debian terminology didn't bring me anywhere after 5 minutes)  ;)12:02
*** adam is now known as mza12:02
lcukqgil, in a new country a guidebook and dictionary is good.  we should all have those headsets from BCN and a personal translator :D12:04
timeless_mbpqgil: feel free to add a wiki page w/ initial terminology translations ;-)12:05
mikhaslcuk, babelfish?12:05
lcuki was thinking more a wiki page, but that will suffice lol12:06
*** slaine has joined #meego12:08
*** bigbrovar has joined #meego12:10
*** jfernandez has quit IRC12:11
*** kristof78 has joined #meego12:13
*** VilleT has quit IRC12:15
*** tekojo has quit IRC12:15
*** red_ is now known as red12:20
*** apoirier has joined #meego12:24
*** prr has joined #meego12:24
*** Moku has quit IRC12:25
*** Moku has joined #meego12:27
*** wasikevin has quit IRC12:27
*** TigerTael has quit IRC12:28
*** achipa has joined #meego12:29
*** tmikola has joined #meego12:29
*** aquatix has joined #meego12:33
*** zhenhua1 has quit IRC12:34
*** tilppis has joined #meego12:34
*** milliams has joined #meego12:36
qgilI enjoy learning a new English word almost every six months, when a new Ubuntu release starts12:39
w00tqgil: *grin*12:40
*** Terje1 has quit IRC12:40
*** Terje1 has joined #meego12:40
slaineit's also lots of fun to guess what the next release will be called12:40
w00tmangy manatee12:41
slaineUbuntu 10.10 Maggoty Monkey12:41
slainesee, hours of fun12:41
*** TigerTael has joined #meego12:42
*** Moku has quit IRC12:42
*** hbons has quit IRC12:42
*** hbons has joined #meego12:43
*** baraujo has joined #meego12:43
*** Moku has joined #meego12:44
*** Terje1 has quit IRC12:48
qgilm? I'm expecting the next Ubuntu release to go for "l·l", which has even an own Unicode graph http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%BF#Catalan12:48
*** Guest9217 is now known as sar3th12:49
*** sar3th has joined #meego12:49
slaine10.04 IS the L release12:49
slaineLucid Lynx12:49
qgilsure, I mean after Lucid Lynx12:49
*** hunger_t has quit IRC12:50
mikhaswhat does it mean? is it short for tie fighter?12:50
*** megabast has joined #meego12:50
*** fredy has joined #meego12:50
*** ayoy has quit IRC12:50
qgilafter that we could consider "ll", which is counted as one letter in Spanish12:50
qgil(and I'm joking, just in case it was not clear)  ;)12:51
*** tilppis has quit IRC12:52
slaineI'm totally confused12:52
*** robsta has quit IRC12:52
*** robsta has joined #meego12:55
*** robsta has quit IRC12:57
*** robsta has joined #meego12:57
*** lizardo has joined #meego12:57
*** xaiki has quit IRC12:58
*** tackat has joined #meego13:01
zaheermqgil, :)13:04
zaheermslaine, there is a letter that is written as 2 consecutive ls13:04
zaheermbut is considered a single letter13:04
zaheermand goes in alphabet between l and m13:04
slaineI gathered :)13:07
zaheermand has a very different pronounciation to 2 consecutive ls in english13:10
*** lvader has joined #meego13:11
*** smyows has joined #meego13:13
*** heffer has joined #meego13:14
*** lvader has quit IRC13:16
*** lvader has joined #meego13:17
*** sar3th is now known as sar3th|away13:21
*** zalan has quit IRC13:21
*** lvader has quit IRC13:21
*** pavel_proi has joined #meego13:27
*** lvader has joined #meego13:27
*** pavel_proi has left #meego13:27
*** badone has quit IRC13:28
*** gaveen has quit IRC13:30
*** wazd has joined #meego13:30
*** pupnik has joined #meego13:31
pupnikhttp://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7345/1.html  NILFS filesystem for solid state drives.  logs, versions, rollbacks13:31
*** lvader has quit IRC13:31
*** anbaldwi has joined #meego13:31
*** robsta1 has joined #meego13:33
* thiago wonders if after the 26th release we'll go for Æ or Ä13:35
slainepupnik: cool, I meant to read that when it first came out but never got around to it :)13:35
*** glin has quit IRC13:36
w00tthiago: :-)13:36
*** robsta has quit IRC13:36
*** hbons has quit IRC13:36
pupnikim liking this rollback your screwups ability13:36
Stskeepszfs :P13:36
*** wazd has quit IRC13:36
thiagoMaemo had trouble finding wind names for the I release13:36
slainewas talk of using btrfs for this. I know fedora where looking at it13:36
*** wazd has joined #meego13:36
pupnikid like a sysrem that goes to last known bootable state when it cant boot fully13:37
slainefecking site, no print version of the article13:37
*** mstormo has quit IRC13:38
thiagoI don't know if the Harmattan++ codename has been revealed yet13:38
*** jesperht has quit IRC13:38
*** hbons has joined #meego13:38
*** mauricek has quit IRC13:38
*** heffer_ has joined #meego13:39
*** tim_jenssen has quit IRC13:39
*** ysyrota has joined #meego13:39
slainethiago: MeeGo 1.1 ?13:39
slaine;)13:39
thiagowe still refer to the Harmattan++ release by its codename13:40
*** TigerTael has quit IRC13:40
thiagoeven though it's a full MeeGo version (I don't know _which_)13:40
*** heffer has quit IRC13:40
*** lle2 has joined #meego13:40
*** lainwir3d has joined #meego13:41
*** lainwir3d has joined #meego13:41
lcuki wonder where codenames come from, is there an app i can download to generate new project codenames?13:41
Guest79331lcuk: just google for all the ubuntu naming jokes13:41
thiagolike www.classnamer.com13:41
thiagowe use that for Qt :-)13:41
*** Guest79331 is now known as burchr13:41
Votannah, easier than that. smash ur head 4 times against the keyboard in a 90° angle.13:41
*** burchr has quit IRC13:41
*** burchr has joined #meego13:41
lcuklol thiago why doesnt that surprise me!13:42
*** ttorkko has joined #meego13:42
* lcuk prefers lower case c names, its easier to type13:42
thiago_ is a shift-key13:42
thiagoit's like Git's @{u}13:42
* thiago has export U=@{u}13:42
thiagoso I can just use $U13:43
*** gaveen has joined #meego13:43
*** Moku has quit IRC13:43
burchrthiago: hahaha.13:43
*** tekojo has joined #meego13:45
*** tekojo has joined #meego13:45
* burchr bookmarks that13:45
*** Moku has joined #meego13:45
*** mikhailz has quit IRC13:54
*** hurewitz has joined #meego13:58
*** TigerTael has joined #meego14:01
*** ctusar has quit IRC14:03
*** tmikola has quit IRC14:06
*** cyberkonsult has joined #meego14:11
*** Terje1 has joined #meego14:13
*** heffer has joined #meego14:14
*** Anssi__ has quit IRC14:15
*** Anssi_ has joined #meego14:15
*** cyberkonsult has quit IRC14:22
*** jesperht has joined #meego14:22
*** mauricek has joined #meego14:22
*** mstormo has joined #meego14:22
*** tim_jenssen has joined #meego14:22
*** solarion has quit IRC14:23
*** pupnik has quit IRC14:23
*** solarion has joined #meego14:24
*** Anssi_ has quit IRC14:25
*** anselmolsm has joined #meego14:27
*** jfernandez has joined #meego14:29
*** alden has joined #meego14:32
*** bfree has quit IRC14:35
*** rsalveti has quit IRC14:35
*** robsta1 has quit IRC14:37
*** kov has quit IRC14:37
*** kov has joined #meego14:37
*** robsta has joined #meego14:39
*** Termana has joined #meego14:39
*** odin_ has joined #meego14:39
odin_haha14:40
*** abinader has joined #meego14:40
*** stormer has joined #meego14:41
*** cibyr has joined #meego14:43
*** dl9pf_ has joined #meego14:44
*** hunger_t has joined #meego14:45
*** hunger has joined #meego14:45
*** dl9pf has quit IRC14:46
*** bfree has joined #meego14:50
*** VilleT has joined #meego14:55
*** mchua_afk is now known as mchua14:56
*** alecrim has joined #meego14:57
*** MiXu- has quit IRC15:02
slainehmmm, qtcreator doesn't run on Lucid on my netbook15:04
*** townxelliot1 has joined #meego15:05
*** townxelliot has quit IRC15:05
slaineOh, it does run, it just takes about 3 minutes to load15:06
*** nslu2-log has quit IRC15:08
tekojoslaine and it eats 100% of one cpu core15:12
tekojonot nice15:12
tekojoLooks like it is the version in lucid :(15:13
slainetekojo: at least it wasn't just my install15:14
slainethanks15:14
*** rsalveti has joined #meego15:15
*** wizkoder has joined #meego15:15
tekojono, I see the same in a Karmic install with the kubuntu ppa15:15
tekojoso something is wrong in the recent compiles15:16
*** hunger_t is now known as hunger_t_15:16
*** gaveen has quit IRC15:16
*** loureiro has joined #meego15:17
*** dharman has quit IRC15:18
*** thopiekar has joined #meego15:18
*** hunger_t_ has quit IRC15:18
*** hunger_t has joined #meego15:21
*** stormer has quit IRC15:22
*** krig_ is now known as krig15:23
slaineIs there a way of getting apt-get install to also install suggested packages ?15:23
*** hunger has quit IRC15:24
*** hunger_t is now known as hunger15:25
*** dharman has joined #meego15:25
odin_where is the "WG meeting" taking place ?  in this channel at the time ?15:25
odin_ah the tinyurl reveals all http://meego.com/community/events/2010/meego-technical-steering-group-meeting  in #meego-meeting15:26
*** zalan has joined #meego15:28
Termanaodin_: Six and a half hours from now :P15:32
TermanaDamn it read the question wrong15:32
TermanaBut still15:32
Stskeepswill be interesting to see how many show up - maybe everyone lost hope by now :P15:35
*** dimastty has quit IRC15:36
slaineI'm eager to get to it15:36
slainebut family life might get in the way15:36
Stskeepsthat's what you have a n900 for ;)15:37
*** sheepbat has joined #meego15:37
*** mauricek is now known as mkalinow_wech15:38
*** mauricek has joined #meego15:40
*** ctusar has joined #meego15:41
*** t-tan has joined #meego15:41
*** edisson has joined #meego15:43
tekojoslaine bribe your family somehow?15:43
Stskeepscandy and disney movies and a bottle of wine for the wife?15:43
Stskeeps:P15:43
*** ayoy has joined #meego15:43
*** ayoy has joined #meego15:43
slainesounds like a plan15:44
burchrlol15:45
*** mkalinow_wech has quit IRC15:45
burchrwhen -is- the meeting again?15:45
slaine8pm for me which falls square into bed times15:45
burchrStskeeps: can you ping me? coz knowing me I'll probably have trouble remembering15:45
*** qwerty__ has joined #meego15:45
Stskeepsburchr: i'll try, but i will be on my way back from polish classes15:46
burchrhehe15:46
Stskeepsset a calendar item..15:46
Stskeeps:P15:46
burchrcan you curse yet?15:46
burchr:P15:46
Stskeepsit's hard to avoid learning polish curse words, they don't have many15:46
Stskeeps:P15:46
*** kristof78 has quit IRC15:50
*** heffer has quit IRC15:53
*** wizkoder has quit IRC15:53
*** heffer_ is now known as heffer15:53
*** aloisiojr has joined #meego15:55
*** jpetersen has quit IRC15:58
*** townxelliot1 has quit IRC16:06
*** townxelliot has joined #meego16:08
*** cbsch has quit IRC16:08
*** Terje1 has quit IRC16:09
*** jysky has quit IRC16:10
*** heffer has quit IRC16:12
*** anttimo has quit IRC16:14
*** stormer has joined #meego16:17
*** rhulad has quit IRC16:17
*** cbsch has joined #meego16:19
*** jpal has quit IRC16:20
*** Anss| has joined #meego16:22
*** cibyr has quit IRC16:22
*** hhartz has joined #meego16:23
*** puffin has joined #meego16:24
*** tekojo has quit IRC16:25
*** jysky has joined #meego16:26
qgilspeaking of governance, which free software projects you think that excel in that sense? Very useful if they have corporate involvement as well16:31
qgilah, Dave had written http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2009/02/20/governance-best-practices/16:33
*** orbarron1 has left #meego16:35
*** orbarron has joined #meego16:35
*** ayoy has quit IRC16:36
timeless_mbpopensolaris :)16:42
*** Mek has quit IRC16:42
timeless_mbpi'd be curious to hear about people's opinions of Apache and Eclipse16:43
timeless_mbp(or OpenOffice and NetBeans for that matter)16:43
*** bitkiller has joined #meego16:44
*** DawnFoster has joined #meego16:45
robstaqgil: linux kernel16:45
timeless_mbprobsta: that's covered by qgil's link ;-b16:45
*** lainwir3d has quit IRC16:45
*** lainwir3d has joined #meego16:45
*** lainwir3d has joined #meego16:45
robsta"come but bring code"16:46
*** jpetersen has joined #meego16:46
*** bitkiller is now known as ecdpalma16:46
*** ecdpalma is now known as bitkiller16:47
robstaanyway i don't think you can easily compare how heterogeneous projects like maemo and gnome work with linux kernel / inkscape / svn etc16:48
*** danielwilms has quit IRC16:48
*** iss has left #meego16:49
qgilrobsta: Linux kernel governance goes around a dictator. What projects would you recommend if you don't have one individual for that (or if the dictator happens to be a company)16:53
StskeepsFreeBSD?16:53
timeless_mbpthere's a dictator there too ;-)16:54
Stskeepsreally?16:54
robstaqgil: the hierarchical model makes sense for, let's call it "single source tree" project16:54
robstas16:54
timeless_mbpoops, sorry, Theo de Raadt is probably OpenBSD16:55
robstaif the dictator is a company, well, what would i recommend? play by their rules, or fork, or go elsewhere?16:55
robstaare there other options?16:55
robstadictator sounds bad, let's just call it maintainer shall we?16:56
*** diegohcg_ is now known as diegohcg16:57
Stskeepsinteresting, freebsd is actually governed by the committers voting 9 people into a core team16:57
timeless_mbprobsta: anyway, opensolaris has a governing board which is elected16:57
Stskeeps(which then gives out commit bits etc)16:57
timeless_mbpit's probably not too far from how freebsd works16:57
timeless_mbpcommitters get grants for a certain time period16:57
robstai think linux has a de facto core community too16:57
timeless_mbpand their grants need to be renewed16:57
robstait's just not by vode16:58
robstavote16:58
Stskeepswell, it's a meritocracy16:58
Stskeeps(with a dictator on top)16:58
*** wazd has quit IRC17:00
qgilwe have models that emerge from 1-few individuals starting writing code and then one day they have created a monster  :)17:00
qgiland we have models that emerge from the work started in a company, but then being interesting also for other developers, individuals and companies, that want to have some influence17:01
timeless_mbpqgil: anyway, someone should find someone who likes apache/eclipse/openoffice17:01
qgilone intriguing is WebKit17:01
robstavoting is overrated17:01
timeless_mbpi'd argue webkit is a "doesn't work" model17:01
Stskeepsisn't this a new form, trying to create a project top down with existing communities?17:01
qgilyou can find a lot of criticisc17:01
timeless_mbpStskeeps: well, webkit is probably close17:01
timeless_mbpthere was the kde group17:02
timeless_mbpand an apple group17:02
qgilbut they actually have plenty of contributors from different companies and individuals17:02
timeless_mbpand they tried to unify17:02
timeless_mbpand then another one or two groups come by17:02
timeless_mbpqgil: the problem w/ webkit is that in reality it's a system where no one plays fair or shows all their cards17:02
qgiltimeless_mbp: I know, but they are going far, and fast17:03
*** namus_ has joined #meego17:03
qgilI'm not defending, just trying to learn  :)17:03
robstaif you vote you may end up with people on the board who can't work together17:03
timeless_mbpqgil: i'm sick, but if i wasn't, i'd show you an example of some group going very far off the edge of a cliff17:03
timeless_mbpit's amusing if you don't have to talk to them17:03
timeless_mbpbut they're in your building17:03
qgiltimeless_mbp: no idea and I care about public examples  :)17:04
*** lainwir3d has quit IRC17:05
*** lainwir3d has joined #meego17:05
*** rhulad has joined #meego17:05
lle2Linux kernel may look like dictatorship, but it happens to have a very special kind of dictator, one who basically doesn't like power too much17:05
*** rcc has quit IRC17:06
*** rcc has joined #meego17:06
timeless_mbpqgil: webkit is a public example, sadly, the guys doing this wrong are just well… using it incorrectly based on bad or misinterpreted advice from some group which is presumably a 'contributor' to webkit17:06
timeless_mbplle2: so, let's put it like this: everyone knows the Linux Kernel exists17:06
timeless_mbpwhen someone especially anyone involved in MeeGo asks for suggestions of models, it's pretty obvious they're looking for other examples or models17:06
timeless_mbpif qgil *didn't* know the linux kernel existed, we'd have a serious problem17:07
timeless_mbpbut you have to have some faith and confidence that he isn't that incompetent (he's very competent!)17:07
*** Mek has joined #meego17:07
* timeless_mbp sips tea17:08
lle2I'm not sure I know what we're arguing about, I only pointed out that the Kernel is not necessarily very easily duplicated as a community, and understanding why it works requires you to drink large amounts of beer17:08
timeless_mbpyour most recent statement is much more useful than your previous statement17:08
lle2\o/17:09
timeless_mbpi'm suggesting "mod previous down: redundant; mod latest up: informative"17:09
timeless_mbpbut, in terms of benevolent dictators who don't want too much power, Mozilla has one of those17:10
*** awilkins has joined #meego17:10
timeless_mbp(please note that i've spent my entire life in that area and this is my first mention in this conversation, after mentioning half a dozen other projects)17:10
timeless_mbps/life/professional life/17:10
infobottimeless_mbp meant: (please note that i've spent my entire professional life in that area and this is my first mention in this conversation, after mentioning half a dozen other projects)17:10
robstathe kernel is indeed interesting, because people who are serious about it just make it work for themselves instead of whining too much when they can't get their patches upstream17:11
timeless_mbpnote that "work for themselves" often means "ship a binary with a patch which hasn't been accepted (and won't be) upstream"17:12
lle2Kernel also benefits very much from being by far the one with most prestige in getting your patches into17:12
timeless_mbpis that true?17:12
timeless_mbpohloh i think would argue it isn't :)17:12
lle2:D17:12
lle2I don't think any other project has such abundance of eager developers17:13
timeless_mbphttps://www.ohloh.net/people/rankings17:13
qgilanything in the freedesktop.org area?17:14
timeless_mbpof projects, arguably getting a patch into putty is more prestigious17:14
qgilis anybody governing DBus?17:14
qgilor is it a bus without rider atm?  :)17:14
qgil(and full of kids, btw)17:14
qgilhow RedHat governs projects is interesting17:14
timeless_mbpyeah fedora's board is interesting17:15
timeless_mbpand presumably gnome foundation, but again, you should know that ;-)17:15
*** gaveen has joined #meego17:15
lle2fedora would be interesting if they would ship a distro that cares about its users </sniping>17:16
timeless_mbplle2: fedora, nokia, same thing ;-)17:16
lle2heh17:16
qgilhttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board interesting17:17
timeless_mbpqgil: do you need wiki links, or can i trust you to find them for things i've mentioned? :)17:18
qgilwell, the GNOME Foundation implies a significant overhead (e.g. sustaining a Foundation), there is an advisory board...17:18
qgilit makes sense in the way the GNOME project was created and evolved, being quite decentralized since the first day17:18
qgil(or the second)17:18
qgilbut nowdays and for a project lead by a company... dunno17:18
timeless_mbphttp://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Community+Group+ogb/17:18
*** robsta has quit IRC17:19
*** carloscesa has joined #meego17:19
Myrttigood morning :-)17:19
* timeless_mbp checks Myrtti's clock17:20
timeless_mbpdid you fly to hawaii ?17:20
Myrttino, Silicon Valley. ohai from Sunnyvale17:20
timeless_mbpwhatcha doin there? :)17:20
timeless_mbphttp://council.openoffice.org/ is openoffice's17:21
Myrttisitting in a Herman Miller chair, drinking coffee and trying to redo our marketing stuff17:21
timeless_mbphttp://netbeans.org/about/os/governance.html is netbean's17:21
timeless_mbphttp://www.eclipse.org/org/documents/ is eclipse's17:21
qgilOpenSolaris looks too formal and complicated on the paper (or web page), dunno how it works in practice17:22
timeless_mbpin practice ogb is fairly handsoff17:22
timeless_mbpthey basically accept/grant charters for other groups17:22
timeless_mbpthe other groups then do what's in their charter17:22
*** Termana has quit IRC17:22
Myrttioh, in theory I'm on vacation this week.17:23
timeless_mbpin practice i'm sick this week :(17:23
timeless_mbphttp://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html is Apache's17:23
*** Terje1 has joined #meego17:23
timeless_mbpi suspect that apache/gnome represent things which are too large17:23
lle2are we trying to find a governance model for MeeGo?17:24
timeless_mbp(they're really umbrellas)17:24
timeless_mbp<qgil> speaking of governance, which free software projects you think that excel in that sense? Very useful if they have corporate involvement as well17:24
timeless_mbpthat was the original question. it's technically vague about the point of the question, but...17:25
timeless_mbpoh, in terms of bad models, i'd propose Symbian ;-)17:25
timeless_mbpand before people complain that I don't have anything to do with symbian, that's incorrect :)17:25
lle2would be useful to keep it in mind and cross-check everything, just to see we're not duplicating17:25
*** vasudev has joined #meego17:26
timeless_mbphttp://www.symbian.org/about-us/how-we-operate is Symbian's17:26
leinirpersonally i like how KDE does it... but it might be a detractor that it requires a yearly physical meeting of the membership...17:26
lle2I don't think it's a problem to have to meet in person at least once a year17:27
timeless_mbphttp://ev.kde.org/corporate/board.php ?17:27
leinirtimeless_mbp: Yup - or specifically the e.V. system17:27
timeless_mbpoh, i suppose i might as well mention w3 while i'm at it17:27
timeless_mbpit isn't software, but it's probably interesting17:28
lle2Khronos too17:28
timeless_mbphttp://www.w3.org/Consortium/facts#org is probably the best i can find for a starting point, sorry17:28
timeless_mbphttp://www.khronos.org/members/benefits/ is all i can find for khronos17:29
*** t-tan has quit IRC17:30
timeless_mbpsorry :(.. khronos is indeed interesting they're softer than w3 and for certain things people have specifically chosen to work w/ them instead17:30
*** qwerty__ has left #meego17:30
lle2talking of web gl?17:30
* timeless_mbp nods17:30
lle2yea, that seems to go pretty well17:31
* timeless_mbp wonders about opentype17:31
timeless_mbpok, opentype is part of ISO in the MPEG section17:32
*** wazd has joined #meego17:32
qgilthanks timeless_mbp17:34
qgillle2: not exactly, MeeGo has already a governance mode set and it's about polishing it17:34
timeless_mbpi think it's probably safe to ignore ISO17:34
timeless_mbpthey're amusing, but… > While ISO defines itself as a non-governmental organization, its ability to set standards that often become law, either through treaties or national standards, makes it more powerful than most non-governmental organizations.17:35
*** heliocastro has quit IRC17:36
qgilok, thaks for the links and the thoughts!17:37
lle2qgil: this one http://meego.com/about/governance ?17:37
qgiltrying to disconnect a bit now before the TSG meeting, seeya later17:37
*** namus_ has quit IRC17:37
lle2I'd like to have more clear definitions for a few things17:37
qgillle2: ask the TSG  ;)17:37
timeless_mbpoffhand meego's model seems to be similar to symbian's17:37
timeless_mbpand i consider symbian's a failure :)17:37
qgiltimeless_mbp: ?????17:37
timeless_mbpactually, sorry, symbian's is http://www.symbian.org/members/member-programs/governance17:38
lle2qgil: mainly about are things voted on, are the votes binding, do the two founders have veto rights :)17:38
qgiltimeless_mbp: symbian has a foundation, members an etc17:39
qgilbut I really had enough of PC in a row today  :)17:39
qgilsee you later17:39
lle2kk17:39
timeless_mbpqgil: it also seems to have steering committees and things which i think are probably working groups17:39
timeless_mbpafaict it doesn't "work", and certainly not _in the open_17:39
*** qgil has quit IRC17:39
lle2we'd need to have standard rules for working groups, otherwise it'll be a mess :D17:39
timeless_mbpperhaps i should underline my definition of 'success' and 'failure'17:39
timeless_mbpworking behind closed doors is a basic definition of failure17:40
timeless_mbpand for that, Symbian (today, not necessarily in 6 months, just today) is a failure17:40
lle2nothing wrong with keeping doors closed when it's winter17:40
lle2but yea, if you're running a community thing, closed doors create problems17:41
timeless_mbpthere's snow on the ground here, but i have my windows open17:41
*** rhymes has joined #meego17:41
timeless_mbp… course, i'm sick, so expecting me to be a good judge of temperature is probably a bad idea...17:41
*** ab is now known as ab[out]17:42
timeless_mbpoddly, a random browse through Symbian's groups shows something much closer to W3C than i'd have imagined17:42
*** rhymes has quit IRC17:42
timeless_mbpanyway, i have specs to read, and q.gil has a meeting to enjoy17:42
* timeless_mbp goes to make more tea17:42
*** rhymes has joined #meego17:42
lle2is the meeting on this channel?17:43
*** javispedro has joined #meego17:43
lle2or there another one with exclusive invite only VIP guest lists... ;p17:43
vilvono, it's another channel17:43
timeless_mbpis it invite only?17:44
vilvonot exclusive invite only for my knowledge but moderated17:44
DawnFosterlle2 - the TSG meeting is at 20:00 UTC on #meego-meeting anyone can attend17:44
vilvothanks DawnFoster17:44
lle2thanks!17:44
DawnFosterTSG meeting will be moderated, but we're taking questions on #meego-meeting-questions & I'll post as many as we can fit into the time.17:45
timeless_mbpDawnFoster: for the temporally challenged amongst us, can you give that in relative time?17:45
vilvo22.00EET17:45
lle24h15m from now17:45
DawnFosterdetails here: http://meego.com/community/events/2010/meego-technical-steering-group-meeting17:45
timeless_mbplle2++17:46
*** wizkoder has joined #meego17:46
*** disco_stu has joined #meego17:46
*** Terje1 has quit IRC17:46
*** disco_stu has left #meego17:47
timeless_mbpDawnFoster: the topic doesn't mention the other channel17:47
*** niqt has quit IRC17:47
*** trbs has joined #meego17:47
DawnFostertimeless_mbp: thanks. We set up the separate channel for questions a little late and we're still getting organized.17:48
timeless_mbpnor does the wiki page17:48
*** kristof78 has joined #meego17:49
*** kristof_78 has joined #meego17:49
*** kristof_78 has quit IRC17:50
DawnFostertimeless_mbp: I just set up the new channel. I'll see if I can get it added to the right places17:50
* timeless_mbp tries to decide if DawnFoster is precisely equivalent to qgil17:50
DawnFostertimeless_mbp: probably quite a few differences :)17:51
timeless_mbphis title is "open source advocate"17:51
timeless_mbpwhich is about as helpful as my title at a previous company: "timeless developer"17:51
* timeless_mbp had business cards too!17:52
DawnFostertimeless_mbp: I knew someone at Intel who had "Tools Goddess" as her business card title17:52
nidOseems a useful title for him if he wants to slack, just stand outside nokia hq with a billboard saying "linux is good k"17:52
*** jfernandez has quit IRC17:53
Myrttioo, my coffee is getting cold17:55
megabastjoin #meego-meeting17:55
megabast00pq17:56
*** dpino has quit IRC17:56
slainemegabast: a little early yet18:01
slainetry again in 4 hours18:01
megabastslaine: lol slaine ^^18:01
timeless_mbpyeah, you have time to get dinner or something18:02
megabastI will have to stay at work ^^18:02
timeless_mbphave lunch then?18:03
megabastprobably get a pizza hut next to work18:03
*** jsa- has joined #meego18:04
* timeless_mbp gets chicken soup (again)18:04
timeless_mbpit's kinda boring having it every day for a week18:04
slainetimeless_mbp: stomach flu ?18:05
*** navanax has joined #meego18:05
timeless_mbpflu yes18:05
slaineugh, get well soon18:05
timeless_mbphopefully i'll be better tomorrow18:06
timeless_mbpbecause then i can fly to stockholm on friday18:06
timeless_mbpotherwise i'm in trouble for the next two weeks18:06
timeless_mbpbecause i told people i wouldn't be here and thus they won't have food for me18:06
*** user_ has joined #meego18:07
user_otoivainen18:07
timeless_mbpbtw, your irc nick field claims slaine_, not slaine ;-)18:07
*** user_ has left #meego18:08
*** jpetersen has quit IRC18:08
*** jfernandez has joined #meego18:08
slainetimeless_mbp: really ?18:09
timeless_mbphttp://meego.com/users/slaine18:09
timeless_mbpIRC Nick18:09
timeless_mbpslaine_18:09
*** tackat has quit IRC18:10
slaineAh, well spotted18:10
slainethanks, changed now18:10
*** Moku has quit IRC18:10
*** timeless has joined #meego18:11
timeless_mbplest people complain that my irc nick is wrong, it isn't, my connection just dies periodically ;-)18:11
slaine:)18:11
*** microlith has quit IRC18:12
*** Reines has quit IRC18:12
*** Moku has joined #meego18:13
*** aziwoqpd has quit IRC18:14
timeless_mbphrm, my irc client is buggy. /whois victim isn't looking up victim on the current channel's server18:14
timeless_mbp(actually, in general that it does that helps me more often than it hurts me, but… it's still technically buggy)18:15
*** robsta has joined #meego18:16
*** dpino has joined #meego18:17
*** microlith has joined #meego18:17
*** Nitial has quit IRC18:18
*** Nitial has joined #meego18:18
*** jfernandez has quit IRC18:20
*** jfernandez has joined #meego18:21
*** vasudev has quit IRC18:23
*** vpoluceno has joined #meego18:24
*** navanax has quit IRC18:25
*** jpal has joined #meego18:25
*** vasudev has joined #meego18:26
*** roger_away has joined #meego18:26
GAN900thiago, the Harmattan+ codename was picked by the community, fyi. :)18:28
MyrttiGAN900: I was actually looking for where it was decided18:31
MyrttiGAN900: url plz18:31
*** sheepbat has quit IRC18:33
lcukGAN900, harmattan was community? i only ever saw the discussion on i18:36
*** aziwoqpd has joined #meego18:36
timeless_mbpso we can pick the community for picking something that can't be spelled properly by nokians?18:39
timeless_mbp(i think for fremantle we can blame someone internal for the same problem)18:39
*** mikhas has quit IRC18:39
burchrtimeless_mbp: you mean freemantle?18:40
* burchr ducks and runs18:40
timeless_mbpprobably amongst others, yeah18:40
burchrgaaaah18:41
burchrwhy did HMRC chose today to go on strike18:41
timeless_mbps/chose/choose/18:41
burchrtypo18:41
burchrtyping one handed is hard18:41
timeless_mbpit's a typical mistake for nokian's18:41
timeless_mbpso it's an automatic correction for me18:41
burchr:)18:42
* burchr hangs up18:42
*** anbaldwi has quit IRC18:42
*** alexbez has joined #meego18:43
GAN900Myrtti, qgil's Jaiku as far as Ican recall.18:44
GAN900timeless_mbp, Iverna?18:45
timeless_mbpsorry?18:45
timeless_mbpoh, you didn't mean harmattan, you meant harmattan.next18:45
GAN900Yeah18:45
GAN900N900 typing failure.18:46
*** alexbez has left #meego18:47
* Jaffa boggles at the reply to his post on the "browser engine and other big architectural decisions"18:49
timeless_mbpurl?18:50
timeless_mbp"not important"?18:50
timeless_mbp:)18:50
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC18:50
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Start here - http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-March/001081.html18:50
*** githogori has quit IRC18:50
MyrttiGAN900: http://qgil.jaiku.com/presence/52078129 ?18:51
timeless_mbpeww, a mailing list18:51
timeless_mbpthat was your first mistake :)18:51
*** semi has quit IRC18:51
timeless_mbpJaffa: um18:51
GAN900Myrtti, yeah, that'd be it.18:51
timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure i don't want to read that18:51
MyrttiI wouldn't count that as a decision made by the community...18:52
timeless_mbpwe have perhaps two russian engineers total18:52
Myrttibut *shrug*18:52
timeless_mbpand our team owner actively sponsored a web kit port18:52
Myrttiwhat do I know...18:52
*** notmart has joined #meego18:52
GAN900Myrtti, well, afaicr. ;)18:53
*** petur has quit IRC18:53
timeless_mbpJaffa: anyway, there's no way in hell i'm touching that or anything else on that list18:53
GAN900Jaffa, LiMo?!18:54
*** ferar has joined #meego18:54
timeless_mbphis opinion is also contrary to the reviews by e.g. Engadget18:54
javispedroInverna!18:55
timeless_mbpperhaps he hasn't purchased an n900 because he left nokia and stopped receiving free products?18:55
javispedroIverna sounds like a girl name.18:55
*** dazo is now known as dazo_afk18:55
timeless_mbpjavispedro: as w/ its predecessors, it's a wind18:55
timeless_mbpitalian, which is probably why it sounds like a girl's name18:55
javispedroyeah yea, but that's INverna18:55
timeless_mbpoh oops18:56
timeless_mbpwait, is it Iverna or Inverna?18:56
MyrttiIlmatar.18:56
Myrtti:-P18:56
javispedroit's "inverna"18:56
*** CosmoHill has joined #meego18:57
timeless_mbpMyrtti: mentioned by you feb of last year...18:57
* CosmoHill twitches18:57
Myrttitimeless_mbp: wasn't my idea originally.18:57
timeless_mbphttp://qgil.jaiku.com/presence/52078129#comments18:57
timeless_mbpseems to be where you got it18:57
MyrttiI don't have that much creativity in me18:58
*** srag has quit IRC19:00
*** Moku has quit IRC19:01
*** Moku has joined #meego19:02
*** dazo_afk is now known as dazo19:03
*** imadX has joined #meego19:04
javispedrohttp://es.pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Archivo:Inverna.png bah19:04
javispedroclearly, naming things is just hard.19:05
*** Votan is now known as Votan|off19:06
*** ferar has quit IRC19:08
*** sar3th|away is now known as sar3th19:08
*** bergie has quit IRC19:10
*** heliocastro has joined #meego19:11
*** heliocastro has joined #meego19:11
*** rhymes has quit IRC19:11
*** strank has joined #meego19:11
*** strank has left #meego19:13
*** hcarrega_ has joined #meego19:14
*** solarion has quit IRC19:14
*** solarion has joined #meego19:14
*** dazo is now known as dazo_afk19:15
*** dvoid_ has joined #meego19:16
*** jpal has quit IRC19:16
*** alexbez has joined #meego19:17
*** hcarrega has quit IRC19:17
*** milliams has quit IRC19:20
*** dazo_afk is now known as dazo19:20
*** hcarrega has joined #meego19:20
*** pohly1 has joined #meego19:21
*** pohly has quit IRC19:21
*** jsv has joined #meego19:22
*** hcarrega_ has quit IRC19:22
*** strank has joined #meego19:23
*** lbt has quit IRC19:23
*** vasudev has quit IRC19:24
*** lbt has joined #meego19:24
*** strank has quit IRC19:24
*** vasudev has joined #meego19:26
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC19:28
*** kankineu1os has quit IRC19:28
*** alden has quit IRC19:29
*** CeeC has joined #meego19:31
*** alexbez has quit IRC19:31
*** njsf_1 has quit IRC19:31
*** alexbez has joined #meego19:32
*** alden has joined #meego19:33
*** srag has joined #meego19:33
*** njsf_ has joined #meego19:33
*** vasudev has quit IRC19:33
*** CeeC has quit IRC19:34
*** hcarrega has quit IRC19:34
*** alexbez has left #meego19:34
slainethat poor dead horse19:34
*** arjan has joined #meego19:35
aukeino19:35
aukesad sad horse story19:35
aukeI should have fudged the word "troll" in that e-mail somewhere :/19:37
slainelol19:37
*** s1gk1ll has joined #meego19:37
aukeI mean, the browser discussion is actually interesting19:37
slaineyup19:37
aukeand in comes this guy who takes half of an argument on the acid test19:38
slaineI guess we'll find out more later :)19:38
aukeand BAM19:38
auketurns it into goatse19:38
slaineAh no, you didn't have to go there auke19:38
aukelol19:38
*** jreznik has joined #meego19:38
slainethat's one site you can never unsee19:38
aukeyes, please don't go there, lol19:39
slaineI wonder does he have google ads on there yet19:39
slainehe'd probably make a fortune19:39
auketrust me, you don't <jedi hand movement>19:40
*** srag has quit IRC19:40
lcuki would like an email client app to convert long threads into haiku19:41
aukelcuk: ahaha19:42
aukelcuk: go play "haiku journey"19:42
lcukno time to play!19:42
lcuktheres lots to be done.19:44
lcukBusy IRC tonight!19:44
aukeyah, meeting as well in a bit19:44
slainebetter make sure I get back home in time for it19:44
achipais the wiki using the same (openID) accounts as the rest of meego.com ?19:47
achipatrying to log in and it's not quite working out (as in I'm successfully logged in but still get a log in/register on wiki pages)19:48
DawnFosterachipa: the log in info is the same, but the wiki has been a little difficult lately, and sometimes I have to log into the wiki again.19:49
DawnFosterachipa: let me know if you aren't able to eventually get logged in.19:50
achipaI'm currently in the stage of having both "log in" and "log out" links :)19:50
*** mlpug has joined #meego19:50
*** murrayc_ has joined #meego19:51
arjanachipa: purgatory19:51
achipayeah. Though I *can* log out, but logging *in* gets me only, well... to a log in link :)19:52
*** jpetersen has joined #meego19:54
*** dharman has quit IRC19:54
*** fnordianslip has joined #meego19:54
*** ysyrota has quit IRC19:54
*** heffer has joined #meego19:55
*** Terje1 has joined #meego19:55
*** achipa has quit IRC19:57
*** slaine has quit IRC19:57
DawnFosterachipa: well, you obviously need to log in again (and again and again) if you still have the log in link?19:58
*** biochimia has quit IRC19:58
*** dagger has quit IRC20:00
JaffaDawnFoster: But you can have a "Log In" link *and* a "Log Out" link (well, back ages ago)20:01
DawnFosterachipa: kidding aside, I am looking into your log in issue20:01
DawnFosteryour account is new and it might take some time to sync, but I'm trying to confirm this.20:02
*** DawnFoster has quit IRC20:02
*** tekojo has joined #meego20:03
*** tekojo has joined #meego20:03
*** anotnac has joined #meego20:05
*** townxelliot has quit IRC20:06
*** nona has joined #meego20:06
*** dazo is now known as dazo_afk20:08
*** vpoluceno has quit IRC20:08
*** dneary has quit IRC20:09
*** DawnFoster has joined #meego20:09
*** murrayc_ has quit IRC20:14
*** kankineuvos has joined #meego20:14
*** kristof78 has quit IRC20:19
*** ml-something has joined #meego20:19
*** microlith has quit IRC20:20
*** Terje1 has quit IRC20:23
*** lainwir3d has quit IRC20:24
*** kristof78 has joined #meego20:25
*** thinkingpotato has joined #meego20:26
*** DawnFoster has quit IRC20:30
*** hurewitz has quit IRC20:30
*** vpoluceno has joined #meego20:32
*** Terje1 has joined #meego20:33
*** mrshaver has joined #meego20:34
*** mrshaver has quit IRC20:35
*** biochimia has joined #meego20:35
*** solarion has quit IRC20:36
*** Terje1 has quit IRC20:37
*** Terje1 has joined #meego20:37
*** thopiekar has quit IRC20:38
*** DawnFoster has joined #meego20:38
*** hurewitz has joined #meego20:39
*** rcc has quit IRC20:40
*** apoirier has left #meego20:42
*** Terje1 has quit IRC20:42
*** mrshaver has joined #meego20:42
*** leinir has quit IRC20:43
*** jfernandez has quit IRC20:45
*** Hah has joined #meego20:45
*** solarion has joined #meego20:45
*** jussikuosa has joined #meego20:47
*** smaug___ has joined #meego20:48
*** bpeel is now known as bpeel_away20:51
*** TheAppleMan_ has joined #meego20:52
*** mrshaver has left #meego20:52
*** TheAppleMan has quit IRC20:53
*** florian has quit IRC20:54
*** jarit has joined #meego20:55
*** jarit has left #meego20:56
*** githogori has joined #meego20:56
*** bleeter has quit IRC20:56
*** vpoluceno has quit IRC20:57
*** Cosmo[PB] has joined #meego20:58
Cosmo[PB]my router sucks more than your typical American cheerleader on prom night20:58
*** jreznik has quit IRC20:59
lcukCosmo[PB], but your router will not effect teenage pregnancy statistics20:59
ShadowJKlcuk, if the router worked perhaps he'd be surfing the web instead of chasing girls21:00
*** CosmoHill has quit IRC21:01
*** leinir has joined #meego21:01
*** Cosmo[PB] is now known as CosmoHill21:01
lcuksomehow also, i cannot see a tv show "save the router, save the world"21:02
*** ben_glaz has joined #meego21:05
*** GAN900 has quit IRC21:07
*** jmc-80 has joined #meego21:09
*** jarit has joined #meego21:09
*** vpoluceno has joined #meego21:10
*** thiago_home has joined #meego21:11
*** mrshaver1 has joined #meego21:11
*** CeeC has joined #meego21:11
*** jarit has left #meego21:13
*** jmc-80 has quit IRC21:13
*** mrshaver1 has left #meego21:14
*** hjsm has joined #meego21:15
*** heffer has quit IRC21:16
*** anotnac has quit IRC21:16
*** odin_ has quit IRC21:17
*** rsuplido has joined #meego21:17
*** gcobb has joined #meego21:18
*** mskarpne has joined #meego21:19
*** flukebox has joined #meego21:20
*** hcarrega has joined #meego21:21
*** jarit has joined #meego21:23
*** Terje1 has joined #meego21:23
*** jarit has quit IRC21:26
*** hcarrega has quit IRC21:26
*** wizkoder has left #meego21:27
*** colonelqubit has joined #meego21:30
*** w00t has left #meego21:32
*** X-Fade has quit IRC21:33
*** X-Fade has joined #meego21:33
*** hcarrega has joined #meego21:33
*** hcarrega has quit IRC21:34
*** GAN900 has joined #meego21:34
*** hcarrega has joined #meego21:34
*** thopiekar has joined #meego21:34
*** Tero_ has joined #meego21:35
*** spoussa has joined #meego21:38
*** obcecado has joined #meego21:39
*** TheAppleMan_ is now known as TheAppleMan21:39
*** TheAppleMan has quit IRC21:39
*** TheAppleMan has joined #meego21:39
*** jpal has joined #meego21:40
*** maclaver has joined #meego21:40
th0br0good evening everyone. glad that i actually made it for tonight's meeting ;)21:41
*** jarit has joined #meego21:41
CosmoHill:)21:41
X-FadeHehe :)21:41
leinirOh yeah! Meeting thing :)21:41
CosmoHill20 mins]21:41
th0br0yep CosmoHill21:41
*** GAN9001 has joined #meego21:42
CosmoHill3rd meeting?21:42
th0br0?21:42
X-FadeThe General always has access to the lastest hardware it seems.21:42
th0br0Which General?21:42
CosmoHillthis would be the 3rd meeting wouldn't ot?21:42
X-FadeYes, although first of this kind.21:43
*** xkcd has joined #meego21:44
* CosmoHill stares at xkcd 21:44
*** GAN900 has quit IRC21:45
*** odinm has joined #meego21:46
CosmoHillth0br0: shell we start populating the metting channel?21:47
thiago_homepopulating?21:47
th0br0CosmoHill: huh?21:47
thiago_home95 people over there21:47
Stskeepsthat sounded a bit wrong in my ears21:47
X-FadeCosmoHill: just jump in ;)21:48
CosmoHill#meego-meeting right?21:48
th0br0yep CosmoHill21:48
CosmoHillyay21:48
CosmoHilli know things :)21:48
DawnFosterremember that #meego-meeting is moderated, but you can post your questions to #meego-meeting-questions21:49
CosmoHillmoderated?21:49
*** VDVsx has joined #meego21:49
*** imadX is now known as ImadSousou21:49
th0br0yep, DawnFoster.21:50
DawnFosterPlease preface questions with QUESTIONS:21:50
th0br0DawnFoster: oh, what is "AOB" for?21:50
MyrttiDawnFoster: will you be able to follow both or do you need help with relaying the questions from -meeting-questions to -meeting? *volunteers*21:50
*** lvader has joined #meego21:51
DawnFosterI'll be attempting to follow both to post questions into -meeting21:51
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps21:51
Myrttiok :-) atleast it probably won't be as hectic as the Ubuntu Classroom sessions :-)21:51
DawnFosterbut I could use some help making sure that I don't miss questions and in making sure that I get them posted during the right agenda topic21:51
*** Stskeeps changes topic to "MeeGo - http://meego.com - FAQ: http://meego.com/about/faq | This channel is logged, see them at http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/ | http://wiki.meego.com/Whos_who - add yourself and help facilitate communication and work | Blog post, Towards Day One: http://tinyurl.com/ylmt7fu | First TSG meeting -today- 24/3/2010 20:00 UTC, http://tinyurl.com/yd86qba in #meego-meeting, questions in #meego"21:51
lcukDawnFoster, i split my irc windows in half21:51
DawnFostermyrtti - we'll see :)21:52
*** trumee has joined #meego21:52
*** haolmake has joined #meego21:52
MyrttiDawnFoster: I wonder how easy it would be to use Lernid for these meetings21:52
rsuplidoStskeeps, questions are at: #meego-meeting-questions21:52
*** Stskeeps changes topic to "MeeGo - http://meego.com - FAQ: http://meego.com/about/faq | This channel is logged, see them at http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/ | http://wiki.meego.com/Whos_who - add yourself | Blog post, Towards Day One: http://tinyurl.com/ylmt7fu | First TSG meeting 24/3/2010 20:00 UTC, http://tinyurl.com/yd86qba in #meego-meeting, questions in #meego-meeting-questions"21:52
Stskeepsrsuplido: yes, got cut off :)21:52
th0br0might i just be informed as to what the "AOB" point on the agenda refers to?21:52
DawnFosterlcuk - thanks for the reminder :) *windows split*21:52
Terje1any other business21:52
lcukif you are using xchat, you may be able to right click on the channel name and select detach tab21:52
DawnFosterlcuk - I use adium & it's easy to split.21:53
th0br0ok. DawnFoster, i'd like to take a couple of your minutes in AOB then; just so that you know already.21:53
lcukDawnFoster, perfect :)21:53
th0br0oh but i think i should rather tell that imadX ;)21:53
DawnFosterok - i'm going to ignore this channel for a few min while I focus on the other 2 :)21:53
th0br0or is DawnFoster == valterri halla?21:54
th0br0s/valterri/valtteri/21:54
infobotth0br0 meant: or is DawnFoster == valtteri halla?21:54
Myrttith0br0: no, she isn't21:54
th0br0ok.21:54
thiago_homeDawn = Dawn21:54
th0br0and Foster = Foster ?21:54
lle2incredibe21:54
Myrttihow surprising21:55
DawnFostergeez, I leave for 30 seconds and look what happens :)21:55
Myrttiyou, sir, have won the internets21:55
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #meego21:55
*** sjgadsby has joined #meego21:55
*** macron has joined #meego21:55
* Myrtti needs to control her sarcasm21:55
CosmoHill[19:55]  * #meego-meeting :Cannot send to channel21:55
*** stormer has quit IRC21:56
CosmoHillI see what you mean21:56
rsuplidoanyone has a link to the agenda? is it in the wiki?21:56
GeneralAntillesMyrtti: where's the fun in that{21:56
Stskeepsmoderated, questions in #meego-meeting-questions21:56
Stskeeps-> CosmoHill21:56
th0br0rsuplido: see #meego-meeting topic21:56
DawnFosterthe wonders of moderation :)21:56
CosmoHillthanks I was looking for that channel21:56
DawnFosterAgenda is here: http://meego.com/community/events/2010/meego-technical-steering-group-meeting21:57
rsuplidothanks21:57
aldenwhats AOB?21:57
th0br0any other business21:57
StskeepsDawnFoster: for #meego-meeting topic you can maybe add agenda at the tinyurl too, so people are aware21:57
aldenah21:58
Stskeeps'agenda at', i mean21:58
* thiago_home reorders all three meego channels side-by-side21:58
th0br0ohai Stskeeps21:58
*** V-PV has joined #meego21:58
lcukthiago, :)21:58
RST38hnot looking good in ircii21:58
lcukwe need qt irc ;) with bouncy layouts :p21:58
ImadSousouthiago -- yeah I know nice idea... good thing my screen is big enough21:58
thiago_homelcuk: quassel21:58
*** mrshaver has joined #meego21:59
lcukno need to swear21:59
MyrttiDawnFoster: aw, u r no fun :-P22:00
*** conny has joined #meego22:00
CosmoHillwhat are the rules on swearing btw?22:00
lle2you planning to?22:01
arjanCosmoHill: $5 to charity on each swear word22:01
CosmoHillno22:01
javispedroyou really need rules on swearing? :P22:01
colonelqubitlol22:01
thiago_homeCosmoHill: it's moderated, no one will see you swearing :-)22:01
th0br0javispedro: it only increases the fun.22:01
CosmoHilli meant in  here22:01
*** miksa_ has joined #meego22:01
thiago_homeah22:01
*** lvader has quit IRC22:01
lle2this is internet, it's meant to be nasty22:01
*** cyberkonsult has joined #meego22:01
GeneralAntillesCosmoHill: avoid it, but it's not a bannable offense. ;)22:01
CosmoHill:)22:02
*** lvader has joined #meego22:02
Stskeepsfor the people coming in late, http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-03-24-19.58.log.txt is always latest log22:02
GeneralAntillesCosmoHill: think of this as a professional environment.22:02
* GeneralAntilles has forgotten how to type qwerty22:02
CosmoHilldvorak?22:02
RST38hjavispedro: Of course, and we should ban for offending vegetarians, rastafarians, and iphone users!22:02
arjanGA: too many qwertz kezboarding ?22:02
GeneralAntillesYeah22:02
th0br0Stskeeps: you got that bot hosted on some dedi box right now?22:02
GeneralAntillesarjan: Dvorak.22:02
thiago_homedo we need Imad and Valtteri to introduce themselves?22:02
th0br0RST38h: huh? ban for offending iphone users?22:02
CosmoHillGeneralAntilles: how does that compare?22:02
Stskeepsth0br0: it lives on my nokia 770 in a dusty closet22:02
th0br0we should ban iphone users, yes...22:02
*** yerga has joined #meego22:02
lcukwill people with long nicknames please shorten them \@ they screw up my formatting when ive got small windows22:02
lle2how are they going to present powerpoint slides...22:02
*** Texrat has joined #meego22:03
th0br0Stskeeps: haha :P if you want me to run it for you, i can do that.22:03
javispedrolcuk: GAN's nick is sacred!22:03
Texrathey hey!22:03
GeneralAntillesCosmoHill: I like it a lot more.22:03
*** dneary has joined #meego22:03
CosmoHillis the keyboard qwerty with a dvorak map?22:03
GeneralAntillesCosmoHill: and, somehow, I managed to train myself so I can type whatever's on the keyboard in front of my.22:03
mmeeksDawnFoster: all other commentary / back-channel discussions in #meego ? - so #meego-meeting is effectively read-only for ~all but Imad, Valteri etc. ?22:03
dnearyHi all22:03
dnearyhi mmeeks22:03
GeneralAntillesI move the keycaps around22:03
Texrathey dneary22:03
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake22:04
GeneralAntillesI can only type what's on the caps.22:04
mmeeks'evening Dave :-)22:04
th0br0mmeeks: #meego-meeting-questions22:04
*** anselmolsm has quit IRC22:04
DawnFostermmeeks: at least for this first one, we're doing moderated.22:04
thiago_homemmeeks: this is the parallel meeting channel apparently :-)22:04
lcukTexrat, shhh questions only ;)22:04
DawnFosterquestions should be posted to #meego-meeting-questions22:04
dnearymmeeks, That's the general idea... you ask questions here, and DawnFoster and Quim Gil moderate the discussion, choose questions to ask in #meego-meeting22:04
lle2questions in #meego-meeting-questions, not here22:04
Myrttidneary: not here, in #meego-meeting-questions22:04
*** anselmolsm has joined #meego22:05
dnearyMyrtti, Just saw that :)22:05
Texratright lle222:05
th0br0DawnFoster: i think doing it moderated is the best choice actually as the number of ... possible interested ppl is far too big.22:05
dnearyI'm a head-down typer22:05
*** Terje1 has left #meego22:05
mmeeksthiago: nice ! the fun channel :-)22:05
*** mpathy has joined #meego22:05
* Stskeeps serves popcorn22:05
dnearyth0br0, I agree.22:05
mmeeksdneary: ah - but I'm asking questions in #meego-meeting-questions ;-)22:05
Texrathi Myrtti!  hope you're doing well... still around San Francisco?22:05
javispedroaw, c'mon, someone ask if meego uses .deb or .rpm22:05
MyrttiTexrat: until 15th May22:05
* arjan poors a gallon of pig waste over javispedro22:05
dnearymmeeks, The idea's copied from the Ubuntu Education Week sessions22:05
lvaderlol22:05
CosmoHilljavispedro: and that someone will wake up in the back of a van22:06
dnearyjavispedro, We all know that don't we?22:06
lle2this may be fun, but I really don't see how this is actually working at all22:06
* mmeeks needs to persuade xchat to put 3x channels side by side I guess.22:06
th0br0cheers, Stskeeps22:06
* auke sprinkles javispedro with some rpm flakes22:06
CosmoHillpeople need to start talking in the meeting22:06
*** logics has joined #meego22:06
GeneralAntilless/meeting/announcements from on high/22:06
javispedrowe could vote on the questions priority... if there questions.22:06
aukemmeeks: pidgin isn't much better unfortunately22:07
*** cibyr has joined #meego22:07
RST38hYea, that does not seem to be a real meeting, in the previous sense of this word...22:07
Myrttioof22:07
RST38hMore like moderated questions and answers session22:07
Texratfollowing 3 channels at work will get me fired or brain fried22:07
Stskeepswell, it -is- the TSG meeting22:07
mmeeksauke: heh :-) good to see you here ...22:07
dnearyRST38h, It's a meeting in the sense "political meeting"22:08
GeneralAntillesMeeGo-on-N900 7 minutes in22:08
GeneralAntillesI think that's a new world record.22:08
aukemmeeks: I lurk here most of the time... feel free to ping me when you want to moan about uxlaunch etc ;)22:08
dnearyRST38h, A large number of people wishing to make themselves known to a small number of people22:08
Texratlol GeneralAntilles22:08
RST38hdneary: Do we get to lynch someone at the end then? =)22:08
*** anotnac has joined #meego22:08
dnearyRST38h, There's really no other way that this could work22:08
GeneralAntillesTexrat: for slowness, not for speed, that is. ;)22:08
mmeeksauke: fair enough - I havn't got there yet :-) did you merge my last patches ? :-)22:08
Texratunderstood22:08
* javispedro is happy to see questions flowing in22:09
*** ImadSousou has quit IRC22:09
GeneralAntillesRST38h: clearly the meeting has already taken place. ;)22:09
* mmeeks wonders where Imad went.22:09
thiago_homeoops, we lost Imad22:09
* thiago_home guesses intern tripped at the power cable22:09
mmeeksarjan: did I offend him ? ;-)22:09
* mmeeks flees etc.22:09
Texratpoor IMad22:10
*** arjan has quit IRC22:10
mmeeksthiago: this gives me the perfect time to test that QDBus interesting thing,22:10
aukemmeeks: now you did it!22:10
mmeeksauke: woah; apparently.22:11
mmeeksanaZ: has Portland been hit by a giant lizard or something ?22:11
*** ImadX has joined #meego22:11
*** arjan has joined #meego22:11
lle2this is an f*ing joke, tbh22:11
*** hcarrega_ has joined #meego22:11
GeneralAntillesi.e., "Marketing Makes an Architecture Diagram"22:11
*** hcarrega_ has quit IRC22:11
CosmoHillis it just me or is the meeting not going as smoothly as the first22:11
Texratwe're gonna need a few of these to get it right22:11
aukeI think they're both on a different proxy than I am22:11
Stskeepslle2: in terms of?22:11
aukeI'm in the same office, heh22:12
arjanour (Intel) IT firewall just barfed22:12
anaZmmeeks:  no idea, thankfully I am not in portland22:12
* Myrtti goes to get popcorn22:12
Texratif it gets too boring we can start a Nokia-Intel flame war22:12
RST38hYou cannot, it is moderated22:12
javispedrowhy so much popcorn? nobody asked about .deb yet! (and my clock is ticking, much like GANs)22:12
GeneralAntillesARM-Intel, surely.22:12
*** ImadSousou has joined #meego22:13
mmeeksGeneralAntilles: ARM-Legge ?22:13
Texratfor instance, I <3 AMD : p22:13
th0br0javispedro: screw .deb22:13
RST38hOk, not much interesting action is gonna happen there, going to sleep instead.22:13
javispedroth0br0: I know I know.22:13
StskeepsRST38h: minutes will be available afterwards22:13
GeneralAntillesRST38h: later.22:13
th0br0good night, RST38h22:13
lle2Stskeeps: this CANNOT be the way to organize multi-million dollar investments.22:13
mmeeksRST38h: for 38 hours ?22:13
rsuplidoi think a call-in meeting would be better next time. ;)22:13
*** sar3th is now known as sar3th|away22:13
rsalvetiyeah, will be easier to discuss at the ml later :-)22:13
Stskeepslle2: i think it's exactly the way to do it22:14
Stskeeps:P22:14
RST38hStskeeps: Exactly. Plus, if some corpse spills a bunch of beans, they will be at tmo by tomorrow morning =)22:14
Stskeepslle2: if we had a open meeting we'd all end up picking up welfare22:14
thiago_homeyeah, call in + Microsoft Live Meeting22:14
thiago_home:-P22:14
RST38hmmeeks: I wish22:14
RST38hFRUCT conference is tomorrow at 9:3022:14
*** maclaver has quit IRC22:14
Texratlol lle222:14
*** hcarrega has quit IRC22:14
Stskeepslle2: at least this isn't a teleconference22:14
Myrttipublic service announcment: ice is slippery22:15
GeneralAntillesAh, the wonderful world of confusing-as-hell MeeGo definitions.22:15
javispedrobut what you'd expect from this meeting?22:15
dnearyMyrtti, Ah, but *why* is ice slippery?22:15
*** flukebox has quit IRC22:15
* Texrat thanks Myrtti profusely22:16
thiago_homehave people seen Galaxy Quest? Remember Sigourney Weaver's character? The one who relayed commands to the computer?22:16
Myrttidneary: I have no idea, all I know is that my back hurts now even more than before I tried to stand on an ice cube22:16
thiago_homeisn't that what qgil is doing? :-)22:16
* Texrat thumps dneary tho22:16
GeneralAntillesSomebody photoshop qgil into a Galaxy Quest shot.22:16
javispedrothiago: yes, that gives a bad impression22:16
Texratlol... Quim's patience is already gone22:17
thiago_homeCosmoHill: I think your question is answered by "you can install anything you want. It's linux"22:17
dnearyTexrat, Huh?22:17
Texratqft22:17
CosmoHillsounds like LFS22:17
Texrat2dneary sorry, reflex22:17
X-FadeI feel this meeting is too early ;) All details are to be released asap.22:17
arjanhjsm: there is no prorprietary kernel graphics driver in moblin22:17
thiago_homeit's a standard Linux desktop on an embedded system. Want to install some 3rd-party apps? Go ahead.22:18
Myrttimore popcorn is needed. Corn husks help with digestive problems.22:18
leinirthiago_home: absolutely :) Also, brilliantly done bit of movie there :)22:18
*** lainwir3d has joined #meego22:18
GeneralAntillesX-Fade: they should probably have pushed some of this to the mailing lists. . .22:18
javispedroUnfortunately at this point and I don't know if the questions are asked are the kind of questions "the gods from above" expected to get asked or not.22:18
arjanhjsm: I thik you're a bit misinformed if you think there ever were binary kernel drivers in or for moblin22:18
thiago_homeleinir: "Never give up. Never surrender."22:18
arjanincluding graphics22:18
dnearyMyrtti, Look for Richard Feynmann magnetism on youtube22:18
lle2the meeting progresses like a rabid snail22:18
rsalvetithe closed stuff will depend basically on how the vendor wants to put and use meeg22:19
Stskeepslle2, it's only 16 min in, you have little patience22:19
leinirthiago_home: *giggles* So brilliant :)22:19
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I feel that the next meeting will be a lot better as then more details are known.22:19
rsalvetiI still believe that the devices are going to deliver a *lot* of closed components22:19
Texratme sleeps until community stuff comes up22:19
GeneralAntillesX-Fade: or worse, depending on the details. *eg*22:19
Texratqft22:19
*** stormer has joined #meego22:19
dnearythiago_home, A bit more nuanced than that... I wanted to know if all MeeGo users will be equal citizens, or whether there would be restrictions on redistrributing because of binary components in the core distro22:19
colonelqubit"Well, exceptions would be for things like including Adobe Flash" -- wait, are they saying they'd put Flash in the "open source" stack? It's not like you have to have Flash to make phone calls or charge your battery...22:20
MyrttiRichard Feynman ♥22:20
rsalveti:-)22:20
*** sirpengi has joined #meego22:20
GeneralAntillesdneary: well, presumably vendors will have their own crap.22:20
GeneralAntillesdneary: which means not equal, I guess.22:20
thiago_homedneary: that's not what I was answering...22:20
dnearyGeneralAntilles, That's my point with the follow-up22:20
lle2Stskeeps: I don't have any patience, I want a genuine meeting, not this kind of slow motion train wrecking22:20
dnearythiago_home, You were answering the slippery ice question?22:20
Texratlle2 I guarantee Quim and Dawn don't see it as slow ;)22:21
thiago_homeuh oh... code out next week. April 1st?22:21
thiago_homedneary: no, the "can I get more stuff on MeeGo" question by CosmoHill22:21
javispedrogood question, X-Fade, conny22:21
dnearyMarch 31st! My birthday!22:21
dnearyAnd MeeGo's too22:21
CosmoHilldneary: oo22:21
CosmoHill30th is mine :)22:22
thiago_homedamn, I was hoping for this Friday22:22
thiago_homemy birthday22:22
colonelqubitthiago_home: I just want to see an announcement on April 1 that Meego is now going to move to MS-Windows instead22:22
thiago_homeand Leonard Nimoy's22:22
dnearythiago_home, Ah, sorry22:22
CosmoHillthiago_home: if you answered my question I missed it22:22
thiago_homecolonelqubit: we'll announce that the entire API is VisualBasic for Applications22:22
Stskeepsman, i get stressed just looking at the questions channel22:22
Texratlol22:22
dnearythiago_home, you should have been born 5 days later ;)22:22
GeneralAntillesdneary: too bad for you. :P22:22
*** dpino has quit IRC22:22
arjanand that you need edlin to code, we're ditching vi too22:22
JaffaHow do we ask a question?22:23
connyso it looks like the "Netbook UX" will be plain Qt, right?22:23
Jaffai.e. valhalla: are you using your MeeGo-running N900 as a phone?22:23
Texratlol-- I forgot about edlin22:23
arjanconny: don't think so22:23
GeneralAntillesJaffa: #meego-meeting-questions22:23
GeneralAntillesJaffa: QUESTION:22:23
* timeless_mbp chuckles22:23
arjanconny: all apps will be. the actual window manager.. unlikely22:23
GeneralAntillesStskeeps: no kidding.22:23
connyarjan: thanks22:23
TexratDawn will be bald by time this is over22:23
lle2I would have never expected to experience this when I joined Nokia in '97 :(22:23
*** t_s_o has joined #meego22:23
javispedroStskeeps: stressed -- normal. constantly facepalming until your hand hurts -- get worried.22:24
GeneralAntillesJaffa: my guess is "no". ;)22:24
mmeeksthiago_home: interestingly, I couldn't reproduce http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-7475 with the test case there; always gives me 'false' 'false'22:24
* mmeeks should perhaps try with a service he might have running of course22:24
thiago_homewho needs edlin when we have ed?22:24
Stskeepsman, you guys have high expectations..22:24
Stskeeps:P22:24
lbtdammit ... late22:24
thiago_homemmeeks: yes, that usually gets some "true" :-)22:24
GeneralAntilleslbt: you've missed, well, nothing. ;)22:24
lbtlog?22:24
Stskeepslbt: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-03-24-19.58.log.txt22:24
lbtta22:25
* lbt working on OBS ... heh22:25
timeless_mbplbt: so far people are slowing things down by asking silly questions :)22:25
*** mrshaver has quit IRC22:25
Stskeepsyeah.. i was pondering to hack some and read the minutes afterwards22:25
*** javispedro has quit IRC22:25
Texratthere are professional meeting tools for this-- I think MeeGo.com needs to invest in one22:25
* Jaffa was visiting brother who underwent surgery yesterday ;-)22:25
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: somehow I expect that comes down to vendor-MeeGo vs MeeGo-MeeGo. . . . :\22:25
lbtJaffa: he OK ?22:25
GeneralAntilles^22:25
aukeTexrat: send an e-mail suggesting tools to qgil, dawn foster22:25
timeless_mbpTexrat: i'd rather they invest in spellcheckers22:26
Texrattrust me, auke, I will ;)22:26
dneary#meego-meeting-questions is getting a bit chatty now22:26
* mmeeks now gets only 'true's for something that exists: odd.22:26
*** javispedro has joined #meego22:26
* CosmoHill is unable to keep up with the chat and explodes22:26
aukeTexrat: cool, thanks :)22:26
Jaffalbt: yeah; bad broken arm playing rugby on Saturday; so he's home now and been signed off work for 6 weeks :-/22:26
Texratlol @timeless_mbp22:26
colonelqubitre: signed/non-signed kernels, unless you added in a license like GPLv3, what hope would people have of preventing vendors from tivoizing their hardware?22:26
lle2I've seen meetings take place on IRC, they were not like this22:27
thiago_homecolonelqubit: Linus is quite clear that he doesn't mind the tivoisation22:27
Stskeepspeople should treat these meetings like the start of a relationship.. let your crazy tendancies show only in small bits at first22:27
Stskeeps:P22:27
Texratoops @STskeeps, too late!22:27
thiago_homethis is also a weird meeting because there are only two "participants". It's more like a Q&A sessions...22:27
JaffaStskeeps: Indeed; but it was also pitched - as thiago_home says - almost as a Q&A22:28
Texratno way this could work as a "real" meeting on IRC tho22:28
colonelqubitthiago_home: Oh, I know Linus's position. I'm just responding to questions in #meego-meeting-questions such as the one by DocScrutinizer22:28
* Jaffa 'd like to see them having a discussion between the TSG and representatives of the working groups on their busines22:28
lcukthiago, but its interesting in watching the swearm of related questions coming in as points are made22:28
thiago_homecolonelqubit: the bootloader one?22:28
lcukvery telling of the community stance22:28
aldenwhat does he mean by 'uniform' meego?22:28
lcukglad its open :)22:28
colonelqubitthiago_home: yes22:28
thiago_homethere are more questions than they can answer...22:28
StskeepsJaffa: it'll probably evolve into that when there's a structure22:29
lle2I actually have very real expectations of getting shit answered / agreed upon. This isn't working.22:29
Stskeepslle2, man, you're negative :P22:29
lle2;p22:29
Texratwell, he has a point re signal-to-noise, even in the meeting22:29
*** rokabout has joined #meego22:29
colonelqubitthiago_home: hey, DocScrutinizer's question made the cut! I'm all ears, now!22:29
Texratfiltering doesn't stop the bot!22:29
*** murrayc_ has joined #meego22:30
JaffaIndeed, the moderation and logging is making it harder22:30
*** kristof78 has quit IRC22:30
lle2I'm supposed to be working on MeeGo, this isn't a joke for me. Or it shouldn't be.22:30
GeneralAntillesJaffa: that discussion seems to be taking place behind closed doors. . . .22:30
th0br0colonelqubit: duh, it was one of tonight's most IMPORTANT questions... now it's getting undo'ed22:30
cibyrbut we've talked about architecture already... can't be anything more worth saying...22:30
Stskeepslle2: on the other hand, you'd be surprised how much is decided over coffee22:30
colonelqubitth0br0: no, I think he was just removing some other commentary (at least I hope so)22:30
th0br0no he undid the #info regarding your question methinks22:31
thiago_homebut the question was answered22:31
JaffaHe did.22:31
thiago_homebootloader is HW vendor's business22:31
TexratI realize lle2 may disagree, but IMO the meeting itself should be proceeding more slowly as questions/answers are digested22:31
lle2Stskeeps: deciding over coffee is like a structured approach when comparing to this22:31
GeneralAntillesIn summary, say hello to signed kernels.22:32
Texrat^22:32
GeneralAntillesMeeGo doesn't actually care about pushing an open agenda to the market.22:32
colonelqubitGiven the quantity of questions and pace, I largely agree with Texrat. I mean, an in-person meeting couldn't go this quickly22:32
GeneralAntilleser, signed kernels that can't be replaced.22:32
thiago_homeGeneralAntilles: MeeGo doesn't care about FORCING companies to be open22:32
thiago_homeMeeGo is open22:32
aldenwohoo22:32
aldenclutter lives22:32
th0br0GeneralAntilles: that was kinda to be expected i think... too bad though...MEEGO COULD HAVE MADE A GOD-DAMN DIFFERENCE! ;)22:32
GeneralAntillesthiago_home: no it's not, not if companies are shipping versions of MeeGo that aren't open.22:32
thiago_homeif people take the open stuff and make closed/tivoed stuff, it's their trouble22:32
leiniralden: Of course it does! It's just on life support :)22:33
dnearyJaffa, when you say "moderation is making it harder", what's "it"N22:33
colonelqubitMeeGo has carrots. We will give them to people if they open their stuff up.22:33
cibyrthiago_home: just like anrdoid then :(22:33
lcukif people want closed source qt stuff tho - its by purchasing a license right?22:33
TexratI hope the TSG will be receptive to feedback on this format22:33
dnearyJaffa, I think I missed a bit earlier22:33
GeneralAntillesthiago_home: it's your trouble, too, if they use your brand to do it.22:33
thiago_homelcuk: Qt is LGPL22:33
arjanlcuk: qt is lgpl... right22:33
Jaffadneary: Following #meego-meeting.22:33
dnearyTexrat, I would be interested in seeing whether the TSG could grow to include non-affiliated members22:33
Jaffadneary: My eyes get lost flicking back to it as the same text shows up about 3 or 4 times ;-)22:33
*** lle2 has left #meego22:33
lcukyes of course, but i thought i still had distribution problems to getting the libraries to end users22:33
colonelqubitQt is LGPL...because Nokia made the license more permissive. Same with the new Python QT bindings.22:33
thiago_homecalled PySide22:34
lcukie i cant include them in my package22:34
Texratdneary you and I both!  I am waiting for that opening22:34
TexratI want to know about council, staffing, etc22:34
dnearyAnyone know how to open a channel in a different window in xchat-gnome?22:34
colonelqubitThey're carving out a space for proprietary development on this kind of platform. It's.... one way of doing things.22:34
* Texrat prepares resume :D22:34
GeneralAntillesdneary: doubt it.22:34
thiago_hometrumee: I think I can partly answer your question about Mobility: there aren't many backends yet22:34
lcukdneary, on the channel tab list, i select "detact tab"  in windows version tho22:34
GeneralAntillesdneary: easy, don't use xchat-gnome. It sucks. :P22:34
dnearyGeneralAntilles, You don't think there are any xchat-gnome experts about, or you don't think it's possible?22:35
thiago_homesome things will not work without the Maemo 6 components22:35
*** zalan has quit IRC22:35
JaffaOooh, actually interaction rather than just Q&A.22:35
dneary(re: "doubt it")22:35
dnearylcuk, No channels tabs here22:35
GeneralAntillesdneary: non-affiliated in TSG22:35
lcukhow do you change channels?22:35
*** jpal has quit IRC22:35
thiago_homeAlt+Left, Alt+Right22:36
*** stormer has quit IRC22:36
Texratah... maybe here we go...22:37
gcobbTexrat: this is your opening!22:37
* thiago_home thinks a Q&A session would be best served by collecting the questions, sending them to Valtteri & Imad (and minions) and then getting the answers published22:37
VDVsxdneary, right click and then "detach"22:37
CosmoHillwho are valtteri and imad?22:37
colonelqubitthiago_home: but where would the chaos^H^H^H^H fun be in that?22:37
StskeepsCosmoHill: the two dictators of meego22:37
Texratin!22:37
cibyrWhat does "Release program setup" mean and how is that different from "release plan"?22:37
arjanCosmoHill: imad is the top manager of the intel linux team; valteri is more or less his nokia equivalent22:37
lbtcibyr: no idea... ?22:38
CosmoHillcool22:38
dnearyVDVsx, You're using either XChat or XChat win3222:38
lbtah, release roles22:38
arjancibyr: this is more roles/etc not schedles22:38
dnearycibyr, Glad I'm not the only one confused by that22:38
VDVsxdneary, xchat under gnome22:38
lbtand maybe process22:38
cibyrah, thanks22:38
VDVsxdneary, 2.8.622:38
*** murrayc_ has quit IRC22:38
dnearyVDVsx, xchat2-gnome is a bit different22:38
dnearyNo detach22:38
VDVsxah22:38
*** sjgadsby has quit IRC22:39
gcobbVDVsx: KSirc does detach (I am using it now)22:39
timeless_mbpTexrat: what's a Betbook?22:39
Texrattimeless_mbp, is that not a ledger for gamblers?  :D22:40
GeneralAntillesdneary: use real XChat. ;)22:40
VDVsxgcobb, my old xchat does too, but dneary new one does not it seems :)22:40
leinirtimeless_mbp: It's sort of like a netbook, but with a one-off error on a qwerty keyboard? ;)22:40
timeless_mbpleinir: i like Texrat's odds better22:40
leinir*giggles* :)22:40
* GeneralAntilles notes the community working group is headed exclusively by employees at the moment. ;)22:41
*** hcarrega has joined #meego22:41
timeless_mbpvery communal :)22:41
Texratthere ya go dneary22:41
* Texrat notes that GeneralAntilles is discouraging me22:42
tekojoGeneralAntilles have to start somewhere22:42
Texrathey Tero buddy!22:42
leinirGeneralAntilles: Well... those employees were hired from the community... ;)22:42
Texratenjoy your run?22:42
leinirchicken/egg... ;)22:42
Texratsnake/tail22:43
Texrathorse/cart22:43
tekojoTexrat I think we are bootstrapping22:43
dnearyTexrat, Undone! Foiled again22:43
* javispedro notes that he had joined maemo-community instead of meego- .... duh!22:43
GeneralAntillesTexrat: I'm good at that. ;)22:43
Texratdamn the luck dneary22:43
timeless_mbpso, the problem is that the questions are good. but they're mostly misdirected :)22:44
Texrattekojo I'd rather be boot than strap22:44
*** robsta has quit IRC22:44
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp: I guess working in a vacuum occupied mostly by PR-based information and FUD can do that. ;)22:44
* timeless_mbp wishes that imad would spell 'structure' right at least once22:44
timeless_mbpDawnFoster: thanks.22:45
*** achipa has joined #meego22:46
* rmt had his first production outage today.. sorry ovi maps users. :-P22:47
timeless_mbprmt: please explain?22:48
th0br0timeless_mbp: could it be that you're a spelling natzee?22:48
cibyrovi maps users? what users?22:48
timeless_mbpth0br0: could it be that getting things wrong is unprofessional?22:48
th0br0true, too.22:48
timeless_mbpand oftentimes confusing22:48
timeless_mbpat least a couple of the errors this evening have caused me to pick totally incorrect parsing paths22:49
timeless_mbpthe meeting isn't in a hurry, there's no reason to be sloppy22:49
dnearyStskeeps, I'm interested more in knowing where authority for things like working groups and maintainers will come from, and whether we can influence that22:49
lbttimeless_mbp: god help you if you ever get grandchildren texting you...22:49
th0br0timeless_mbp: it's running late though, especially for the nokia guys22:49
dnearyMake it bottom-up rather than top-down if we can22:49
Texratsorry for being away, I had to actually work22:49
Texrat:D22:49
rmtA short maps.ovi.com outage today.22:49
timeless_mbplbt: i'm hoping texting won't last that long :)22:49
dneary(rather than ask pthe project to draw a flowchart, propose a flowchart22:49
th0br0lbt: are you going to present us in the AOB part or should I do that?22:50
timeless_mbprmt: you actually maintain some portion of maps.ovi?22:50
rmtCall me Mr Ops.22:50
*** baraujo has quit IRC22:50
colonelqubitMr. Oops?22:50
*** hcarrega has quit IRC22:50
rmtcolonelqubit, Today, yes. :)22:50
timeless_mbpsee, spelling is important :)22:50
*** fredy has quit IRC22:50
GeneralAntilleslbt: I can only imagine timeless_mbp will eat them. ;)22:50
Texratooo @Stskeeps, great question!  org chart ftw22:51
aldenhow long is this meeting?22:51
*** denkenz has joined #meego22:51
arjan1 hour ?22:51
*** Termana_n810 has joined #meego22:51
GeneralAntillesProbably 222:51
*** mrshaver has joined #meego22:51
*** vpoluceno has quit IRC22:51
GeneralAntillesOr, god forbid, "until it's finished". ;)22:51
Texratlol dneary22:52
*** vpoluceno has joined #meego22:52
Termana_n810Is the meeting completely finished? Was it logged/was anything interesting? :P22:52
dnearyTexrat, For which funny thing I did are you laughing?22:53
JaffaTermana_n810: Finished? It's barely started.22:53
colonelqubitTermana_n810: Yep, all done. Nothing to see here22:53
dnearyTermana_n810, See #meego-meeting and #meego-meeting-qiestions22:53
timeless_mbpyou're supposed to watch a movie during meetings22:53
dnearySorruy - #meego-meeting-questions22:53
timeless_mbphasn't anyone ever taught you proper meeting handling behavior?22:53
colonelqubittimeless_mbp: I _knew_ I was doing something wrong22:53
X-FadeQUESTION: How can people have merits in a new project? :)22:53
* timeless_mbp is also reviewing a technical specification concurrently (while heckling!)22:53
*** lizardo has quit IRC22:54
lcukobservation:  Next meeting, review the standard log and produce meetbot stuff in post processing, its distracting to the flow22:54
thiago_homeX-Fade: wrong channel22:54
rsalvetiTermana_n810: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-03-24-19.58.log.txt no much interesting things yet22:54
javispedrolcuk++22:54
X-Fadethiago_home: no.22:54
timeless_mbpthiago: i hope that was intentional22:54
javispedroor even better22:54
colonelqubitX-Fade: I bet we all know how to get DE-merits in a new project...22:54
thiago_homeok...22:54
Texratdneary, the stskeeps eek22:54
javispedrohave private channel where the gods organize themselves22:54
th0br0lcuk: i don't know whether you can do that with meetbot22:54
lcukthanks for my question tho :D22:54
th0br0but yeah, i agree with you :)22:54
dnearyTexrat, Ah, yes. Classic :)22:54
*** mlpug has quit IRC22:54
lcukwe can use something else!22:54
lcukmaemo meetings coped without noisey repeats22:55
GeneralAntillesX-Fade: easy, they work for Nokia or Intel. :)22:55
*** yerga has quit IRC22:55
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well that is one of the problems I see.22:55
X-FadeHow can we make sure that interested parties don't run into a wall.22:55
dnearyGeneralAntilles, Now Now, give peace a chance22:56
*** carloscesa has quit IRC22:56
colonelqubit. o (... like... an actual wall? ...)22:56
GeneralAntillesX-Fade: until there's actually something to contribute to, I don't think we can.22:56
lcukth0br0, if the transcoding and copy pasting were going on in a different chan it can still be realtime transcription without interupting flow22:56
lcukstill using meetbot22:56
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: ++22:56
th0br0mh ok22:56
*** denkenz has left #meego22:57
CosmoHilli like the way they introduce each other, it's kinda cute22:57
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I'm not worried about ourselves. But as new players in the market are interested, we need to make sure that not all positions are 'taken' and there is no way to get in.22:57
Termana_n810CosmoHill, Lol22:58
Texratha lcuk- after you got onto ME in question channel :p22:58
lcuklol CosmoHill it feels like im watching memento22:58
thiago_homenice touch that they introduce each other :-)22:58
DocScrutinizerlcuk: seems like /msg meetbot vs /msg #meego-meeting22:58
*** jpetersen has quit IRC22:58
VDVsxX-Fade, indeed, open the TSG to other "brands"22:58
lcukDocScrutinizer, yeah i tihnk22:59
lcukTexrat, :D i was reacting22:59
lcuki finally know who they are!22:59
X-Fade"Welcome working group" :)22:59
Texratdamn question page won't scroll properl;y now22:59
thiago_hometomorrow will be 2 years to the day that I met Valtteri for the first time22:59
thiago_homeand Quim too22:59
burchrthiago_home: I'm touched that you remember it so exactly :-)23:00
TexratI just wonder how big a paid staff MeeGo will end up with23:00
VDVsxthiago_home, are you pre-Nokia ?23:00
X-Fadethiago_home: Tss, still young then :)23:00
thiago_homeburchr: I remember "spend birthday in Helsinki under snow"23:00
arjanTexrat: I suspect the answer is "many" :)23:00
burchrthiago_home: aha, that makes a bit more sense23:00
arjanTexrat: I doubt intel or nokia will actually say how many people work on <any> project23:00
thiago_homeVDVsx: yes, Nokia-Trolltech pre-merger meetings23:00
lcuklol @ formal procedure23:00
lcuk"two man enter, one man leave"23:01
thiago_homeit was a "how does the combined company deal with open source" meeting23:01
*** smyows has quit IRC23:01
*** heliocastro has quit IRC23:01
TexratI asked anyway23:01
thiago_homeI also remember Quim wanted Qt to be LGPL back then already23:01
burchrI think most of the Qt using world wanted Qt to be LGPL23:02
* burchr hides23:02
Texratnot hapy with TSG answer... you, dneary?23:02
Texrathappy*23:02
tekojoTexrat meego.com is a site, MeeGo is the distro23:02
TexratI understand tekojo23:02
TexratI meant the site23:02
X-FadeTexrat: No, me neither. That means they are a dictator.23:02
gcobbTexrat: Or did you mean supporting the community?23:03
achipawhich reminds me... who do we poke about login issues on meego.com ?23:03
Texratsite23:03
Texratgood question Jaffa23:03
* Texrat slaps achipa with large trout23:04
tekojoJaffa hope they take your question23:04
arjanhttp://meego.com/about/governance <-- describes the TSG role as "belevolent dictator" (not unlike what most Open source projects have fwiw)23:04
Jaffatekojo: thanks :)23:04
tekojoachipa it was noted, and the guess was it's related to openid23:04
* Texrat waits for timeless_mbp to correct arjan's spelling23:05
thiago_homearjan: as in "Python, programming the way Guido intended" ? :-)23:05
arjanactual decisions likely happen lower... TSG is mostly for escalations and really hard decisions nobody can agree on23:05
* lcuk waves @ tekojo 23:05
achipaah, sorry, had to flee so I missed the responses23:05
*** n900Marco has joined #meego23:05
timeless_mbpsorry, i'm busy reviewing a technical document23:05
tekojoachipa mrshaver should be the person23:05
Texratno excuse23:05
*** rofo1000 has joined #meego23:05
*** pu5e has joined #meego23:05
timeless_mbpbelevolent, cute...23:06
timeless_mbpve love lent ?23:06
dnearyarjan, Delegation is good. Autonomous reputation-based working groups work well23:06
* Texrat eats and thanks Stskeeps23:07
GeneralAntillesauke: probably safe to assume until the agenda is cleared.23:07
arjanjust if the working groups can't get an agreement, someone needs to make a decision23:07
Texratfor popcorn23:07
*** niqt has joined #meego23:07
arjan(this reminds me of a former intel ceo saying "there are no hard decisions. either there is a clear winner (easy) or two proposals are so close that... well in the end it does not matter which you pick, just pick one)23:08
*** nslu2-log has joined #meego23:08
arjantsg is for the later case ;)23:08
TexratI knew the community stuff would be hot23:08
*** lvader has quit IRC23:08
aukeGeneralAntilles: I figured I ask, to confirm23:09
JaffaTexrat: I'm trying to reply to the Director's Cut questions at the same time ;-)23:10
vilvoJaffa: glad they picked your follow-up question also23:11
Texratthanks Jaffa... curious to see your response to mine.  ;)23:11
Termana_n810Checking through the logs, someone asked what platforms would be supported and the answer was OMAP3 and Atom23:11
Stskeepscurrently23:11
JaffaCosmoHill: Isn't that how they do it in Venuezula? i.e. a "are you happy with this decision? yes/no" election?23:11
CosmoHillno idea23:12
Termana_n810Is this confirmation that theres no chance MeeGo will be built to ARMv6 for OMAP2/N810?23:12
StskeepsTermana_n810: doubt it23:12
arjanTermana_n810: the answer was N900. OMAP3 is not quite a unified platform23:12
JaffaCosmoHill: i.e. it's a bit Banana Republic.23:12
thiago_homeTermana_n810: you can always get the entire distro rebuilt23:12
arjanTermana_n810: I don't think there is a "all omap3 systems" kind of thing that's actually doable easily23:12
*** hcarrega has joined #meego23:12
CosmoHillwhen I've become a member of something I've just been picked by the mods / admin23:12
X-FadeTermana_n810: If everything is opensource, then it is just a matter of recompile.23:12
CosmoHilland nobody objected (that i know of)23:13
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: Maemo _Community_ Council. ;)23:13
arjanX-Fade: on an omap2 it can take a while ;-)23:13
*** slaine has joined #meego23:13
Termana_n810Not if you consider that the repo might be armv7 only23:13
X-Fadearjan: Doesn't need to be _on_ device ;)23:13
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: questions only in #meego-meeting-questions23:13
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: hasn't DocScrutinizer already asked a question there?23:14
DocScrutinizerahh, ok23:14
*** thinkingpotato has quit IRC23:14
slaineI'm incredibly late23:14
javispedroheh23:14
Myrttiqgil: if you're voting, why not do it the meetbot way23:14
Texratworking group (WG) a real hot button23:14
th0br0Myrtti: qgil is not in this channel23:15
Texrat<-- captain obvious23:15
Myrtti*sigh*23:15
slaineis there a log I can glance over to catchup ?23:15
* achipa is still curious how the repository-story will play out in this multi-vendor multi-arch multi-UI meego world23:15
Texrat^23:15
Myrttiwell that's handy23:15
Texratachipa that is a big one23:15
GeneralAntillesachipa: I'm curious about everything related to that. ;)23:15
lbtachipa: heh - see my recent QUESTION .... :)23:16
Texratthere should have been a PRE-PRE-MEETING23:16
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: probably for some europeans, the wording "this channel for questions only" would be a litle less ambiguous ;-)23:16
GeneralAntillesachipa: it's unfortunate that Nokia wants to push their own differentiation in favor of real cross-vendor compatibility (where it is technologically and UX-feasible, of course).23:16
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: hey, don't talk to me, _I_ didn't set the topic. *g*23:16
javispedroi'm starting to think that nobody knows the answer23:17
javispedrowhich is good I guess.23:17
*** xkcd has quit IRC23:17
achipaTexrat: why are you pushing palm here ? ;)23:17
dnearyslaine, I don't know if meetbot generates instantaneous minutes or not23:17
javispedromeans there's giant hidden conspiracy behinds the scene :)23:17
*** jussikuosa has quit IRC23:17
GeneralAntillesWee, community "represented" by the self-selecting dictators.23:17
MyrttiI don't know if I can be bothered to point the fact that the meetbot has real voting functions in it23:17
slaineok, can someone give me an overview23:17
javispedros/there's/there's not23:17
Texratachipa that only Palm I'm pushing is into my face23:17
dnearyslaine, For the raw logs: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-03-24-19.58.log.txt23:17
slaineare we boned or is all sweet and sunshine or is it somewhere in between ?23:17
GeneralAntillesjavispedro: no, you had it right the first time. *eg*23:18
*** lvader has joined #meego23:18
Texratwe have seen the FUD, and it is us... or them...23:18
*** mobiledivide has joined #meego23:19
dnearyGeneralAntilles, Just want to point out that both Imad & valhalla were very pro a MeeGo community council earlier23:19
* lbt wonders about the utility of a voting function with 2 voters present...23:19
arjanunanomous dissent23:19
Texrat<@valhalla_> YES I agree and I support creating this WG as written in the proposal  -- time to move forward23:20
X-Fade2 people in a TG is asking for trouble btw ;)23:20
X-FadeNeeds to be uneven number.23:20
lbtit could provide anonymous votes I guess ;)23:20
Texratagree with X-Fade23:20
tekojoX-Fade you start somewhere23:20
lbtX-Fade: depends if one of them is bigger than the other...23:20
Texratproposal: one from Intel, one from Nokia, one elected from community at large23:21
tekojolbt they are on different continents :)23:21
GeneralAntillesTexrat: TECHNICAL should be merit-based.23:21
Texrat?23:21
GeneralAntillesTexrat: but limit its mandate to technical issues.23:21
JaffaWho'd you bet for, the US or Finland, in a violent contest? ;-)23:21
Texratah, ok23:21
GeneralAntillesi.e., not democratically selected.23:21
Texratooookay...23:21
achipalbt: gives the moral satisfaction you cannot be voted over23:22
Texratmaybe electoral?  :D23:22
GeneralAntillesJaffa: what weapons?23:22
lbtwhoever hacks the voting system first is on the TSG23:22
Texrathey the Finns are tough ya'll23:22
* GeneralAntilles says we select the TSG by throwing bones.23:22
Texratespecially those tundra-loving Sami23:22
* Texrat throws GeneralAntilles bones23:23
dnearyThanks valhalla!23:23
*** thopiekar has quit IRC23:23
Texratthanks dneary23:24
*** astelmashenko has joined #meego23:24
*** astelmashenko has left #meego23:24
*** anotnac_ has joined #meego23:24
*** n900Marco has quit IRC23:24
JaffaYay, the CWG co-chairs (self-selected) now define a proposal for a *community* council.23:25
*** anotnac_ has quit IRC23:25
JaffaHmm.23:25
* Jaffa is in a bitter mood.23:25
Texratyeah Jaffa wtf23:25
Texrat...23:25
* achipa ponders about the fact that in Hungarian 'merit' means to dip or to draw on23:25
JaffaProbably being overly cynical23:25
*** anotnac_ has joined #meego23:25
Texratnot the mood, but what you said23:25
arjanJaffa: how about asking the community council people to organize the WG a bit like the maemo group was organized ?23:25
arjanI bet they'd be very open to that23:25
*** anotnac has quit IRC23:25
Texratsure we would be23:25
Texratfor the next week23:25
gcobbJaffa: to be fair -- Quim was in a similar position when the Maemo Community Council was formed23:25
*** anotnac_ is now known as anotnac23:25
Jaffagcobb: We came up with the proposal then, though.23:26
dnearyJaffa, Then make a proposal & submit it to the CWG23:26
gcobbJaffa: I hope he will listen to the community this time as well23:26
Texratyes gcobb but we have been there, done that-- let's move baseed on what we know works23:26
Jaffadneary: Indeed. But until day one, I guess it's a bit unclear still who the "community" is.23:26
dnearyJaffa, Rather than grumble, we can insist that things work as we want - at least that way if proposals are rejected we can ask why23:26
dnearyJaffa, Certainly23:26
Texratwell gcobb I am not encouraged based on the Linux Foundation travel proposal responses...23:26
Jaffadneary: i.e. we're suggesting representation for something which is about a dozen people across two mailing lists and an IRC channel.23:26
gcobbTexrat: so we discuss on the -community list and make a proposal, based on what has worked well and what has not worked well23:26
Texratok23:27
* arjan is pretty sure the CWG wants such proposals to adopt23:27
* DocScrutinizer *HATES* meetings without proper smokers' breaks23:27
tmzt_meeting?23:27
CosmoHillhaha23:27
thiago_homeDocScrutinizer: take your N900 outside23:27
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: n900, porch23:27
Stskeeps:P23:27
Texratleaving soon23:27
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: seriously, N900 solves all ills. :P23:28
CosmoHilllol23:28
* javispedro dislikes reading too times the word "community"23:28
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: I can't enjoy smoking and same time follow a meeting on N900 :-/23:28
achipaPortrait mode ! Drink !23:28
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: n810 was better at that yes23:28
colonelqubitI'm just hoping my battery holds out... didn't expect the meeting to be several hours23:28
dnearyTexrat, LF travel fund had a major budget cut this year23:29
*** huant has joined #meego23:29
Texratdneary, from Nokia?23:29
dnearyJaffa, More than a couple of dozen...23:29
dnearyTexrat, No, from the LF23:29
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: and smae time I'm anxious about if they come back to locked devices with meego, or if that might be a policy in licence to forbid such shit23:29
dnearyReduced overall budget = reduced travel budget23:29
Texratdneary sorry my comment was aimed at Jaffa and gcobb based on email discussion23:29
slainehas architecture been discussed yet ?23:29
DocScrutinizerlong ago23:29
slainek23:30
X-Fadeslaine: no, more info to come.23:30
Texratspecific to asking Nokia to sponsor prior and next council to LFC23:30
colonelqubitslaine: Basically was "not ready yet, punt"23:30
thiago_homeslaine: not much besides "we'll publish a draft soon, will discuss more next meeting"23:30
arjanslaine: detailed arch will liekly be published on "Day 1"23:30
slainethanks guys23:30
slaineof all days to get delayed, grrrr23:30
lbtI'm not sure what the "We'll handle I8n in the core" means...23:30
arjanday 1 being next week it's not that bad ;)23:31
*** therock has joined #meego23:31
CosmoHillwednesday23:31
colonelqubitI think we'd all like to see a chart like this for Meego: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture23:31
lbtif Meego is a community project then surely having a WG to do it makes sense23:31
slaineI mean't me trying to catchup23:31
arjancolonelqubit: the proposal I've seen looks a lot like that23:31
colonelqubitarjan: good, good23:31
arjansame level of detail at least23:31
tekojolbt it means that l10n is very important23:31
Texratproposal for next meeting: have a pre-meeting to stage, filter and pre-select questions23:31
arjannot quite the same presentation in graphics23:31
arjanbut you'll live ;)23:31
lbttekojo: agreed - but there should be a community i/f23:32
Texratsuggestion: add a proposal channel to next meeting /me ducks and runs23:32
thiago_homeTexrat: yeah, I think that would be preferable23:32
* Jaffa beds.23:32
JaffaWill catch up on the log later.23:32
tekojolbt having met margie I think the community will be heavily in there23:32
DocScrutinizern8 Jaffa23:32
spoussaand no closed components in the arch picture23:33
therock23:33
therock23:33
therock23:33
therock23:33
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o Stskeeps23:33
spoussalike we have in maemo (bme, etc)23:33
Texrattime to go home, later all23:34
Stskeepsarch picture being the shared system amongst devices, right?23:34
Stskeepsbecause i think it'll be a cold day in hell if BME was published open source :P23:34
*** vasilis004476 has joined #meego23:34
tekojonight Texrat23:34
spoussano red componets like in the link here pointing to maemo.org wiki23:35
arjanStskeeps: there's a common architecture upto middleware and such (as is on the website now), and then a per device type layer23:35
*** pohly1 has quit IRC23:35
Stskeepsarjan: yes, i know23:35
*** lvader has quit IRC23:35
tmzt_same source for x86/arm builds?23:36
tmzt_same package layout?23:36
arjantmzt_: of course23:36
lbt\o/23:36
arjananything else leads only to insanity, and will confuse app writers as well23:37
*** Texrat has quit IRC23:37
spoussatmzt_: initially the kernel would not be the same23:37
arjansame kernel source hopefully23:37
arjanjust different configuration23:37
tmzt_goal is upstream?23:37
GeneralAntillesEmphasis on general community participation, not meetings. . . .23:37
*** lvader has joined #meego23:37
* thiago_home thinks CONFIG_MTRR on ARM is not very useful23:37
lbtQUESTION: you know about #meego right?23:37
*** sachin007 has joined #meego23:37
lbt<grin>23:37
Termana_n810BME is battery management right? If they open sourced it couldn't that potentially put them at risk of litagation? Thats what i read somewhere anyway.23:38
arjantmzt_: as close to upstream as we can get away with. this process is also documented on the website23:38
tmzt_thiago_home: ARCH=arm selects that out23:38
tmzt_it's not an issue23:38
*** sachin007 has quit IRC23:38
colonelqubitTermana_n810: yeah, lots of discussion on that topic23:38
GeneralAntillesTermana_n810: that's the argument, anyway.23:38
tmzt_can dme get a hal?23:38
GeneralAntillesTermana_n810: not sure whether or not it would actually pan out that way.23:38
tmzt_it's not the best solution but if it's the only one23:38
jannegarjan: 2.6.34 will have only limited support for the n90023:38
tmzt_look at how atheros worked for a long time23:38
GeneralAntillesI mean, you can blow up your device with or without Nokia's code.23:38
arjanjanneg: hopefully a patch can fix that ;-)23:38
lbtquim is seeing his nice minutes blow up...23:38
colonelqubitof course, someone pointed out that if they *don't* open source the driver, people are going to blow some combination of devices, batteries, and people up while they attempt to reverse-engineer the guts23:38
GeneralAntillesTermana_n810: other half is that Nokia likes to differentiate on power management23:39
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'd say BME info -helps-..23:39
Stskeeps:P23:39
GeneralAntillesStskeeps: lawyers, though.23:39
*** ctusar has quit IRC23:39
*** lpotter has quit IRC23:39
arjanjanneg: a patch does not mean it cannot be the same source + different config23:39
arjanmost of the patch will be arch/arm stuff anyway... that gets config'd out23:39
Myrttiit's been a bit funny driving past atheros and broadcom offices. I didn't know should I ask the car to be stopped so I could throw a tantrum at the main entrance, throw rocks at the windows or just drive by with a disgusted glance at the buildings23:40
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCWdnjLqVWw is always fu23:40
Stskeepsn23:40
jannegarjan: hopefully more than a single patch. it's impossible to do something with nokia's current patch against 2.6.2823:40
javispedroMyrtti: nuke23:40
arjanjanneg: I'd hope so yes23:40
GeneralAntillesStskeeps: yeah. . . .23:40
Termana_n810colonelqubit, but the driver for the battery IS open source isn't it. Just not the userspace component (BME)23:40
arjanjanneg: getting patches as you would submit them to kernel.org is key23:40
Termana_n810isn't it?*23:41
arjanjanneg: (that way we CAN actually submit them upstream ;-)23:41
CosmoHillguys, we need to find out where most of the users are from, and the set the time of the meeting based on that23:41
GeneralAntillesCosmoHill: West Coast USA to UTC+223:41
javispedrodemocracy based time zome?23:41
colonelqubitTermana_n810: I really don't know enough about the issue to speak in any detail. I could dig up the notes somewhere...23:41
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: Stskeeps I'm still not convinced there's a self-destruction trigger red button in BME23:41
thiago_homeso if MeeGo is very successful in China, we'll have Chinese timezone meetings?23:42
GeneralAntilles1400 to 2000 is a reasonable range23:42
spoussaThere is quite a many things in the N900 kernel which are not in the ML kernel now. N900 will boot and somehow work but lot of things will not work...23:42
Stskeepsat least I saw the LCD driver being submitted, that was a nice step23:42
jannegarjan: nokia is upstreaming, but not all at once. good for kernel maintainer sanity, bad if you try to use a different kernel with a 300k lines added patch against 2.6.28 with many backports23:42
spoussaStskeeps: yes, that is already part of the meego work...23:43
arjanspoussa: I understand.. and porting to a more current kernel is a good way to split things up and figure out which pieces are junk etc23:43
arjanspoussa: been there done that ;)23:43
tmzt_why is dsme kernel specific then?23:43
Stskeepstmzt_: dsme isn't kernel specific, i run it on x8623:43
tmzt_so what's the issue?23:43
arjanjanneg: that's why I said "upstream-able patches" not "upstream-already patches" :)23:44
tmzt_why can't any upstream kernel be used on various nokia tablets?23:44
aldenyawn23:44
Stskeepstmzt_: cos not all the patches are there to supprt it properly23:44
Myrtti*sigh* logical fallacies ftw23:44
aldenthese things should be better coordinated23:44
colonelqubitCosmoHill: East Coast <-- me23:44
CosmoHillI'll be in BST too23:45
CosmoHillsoon*23:45
slaineI'm ready for bed me23:45
* CosmoHill pets slaine 23:45
colonelqubitTermana_n810: http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo#BME23:45
*** macron has left #meego23:45
lbtaww... "they do" :)23:46
tekojolbt so cute23:46
anotnacquim is on the pull lol23:46
gcobblbt: held over until next week23:47
timeless_mbplbt: obviously the other wg's won't formally exist for at least another week :)23:47
lbtmissed that :)23:47
Termana_n810colonelqubit, right and BME is only userspace23:47
Myrtti*sigh*23:47
*** vasilis004476 has quit IRC23:48
CosmoHilllbt, tekojo huh?23:49
*** lvader has quit IRC23:49
colonelqubitTermana_n810: But you can still do quite enough damage to your battery, device, and arm (no, not ARM) from userspace23:49
*** odinm has quit IRC23:49
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: Mr. Question-with-an-obvious-answer. :P23:49
tekojoCosmoHill the YES part in the meeting23:50
arjanGA: Yeah that was already answered... upt o the device maker23:50
DocScrutinizerI *love* the get my share of disappointment a day23:50
thiago_homeI also don't think you can enforce what you propose23:50
*** javispedro has quit IRC23:50
thiago_homewouldn't it be a violation of the GPLv2?23:50
CosmoHill[21:45]  <valhalla_> Are you OK with the appointment of you and Dawn?23:50
CosmoHill[21:45]  <DawnFoster> YES23:50
CosmoHillthat?23:50
colonelqubitIt's interesting as the question is more a policy question23:50
Termana_n810colonelqubit, right, but we were talking about the fact that the DRIVER was either open or closed23:50
lbtI think we'll take the RWG to -devel for some more discussion then :)23:51
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: hey, if you without the disappointed, where's the fun in being pleasantly surprised? ;)23:51
*** alden has quit IRC23:51
lbttekojo: did you  see http://meego.mkdir.name/logs/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-03-21-20.02.html23:51
*** sar3th|away has quit IRC23:51
lbtand http://pastie.org/88547223:51
GeneralAntillesthiago_home: if a vendor signs on, then they have to sign something like the VSC.23:51
DocScrutinizerarjan: that answer was merely about who's building the BL, though23:51
thiago_homeGeneralAntilles: and what if they don't?23:51
thiago_homewhat's forbidding them from shipping a device?23:52
tekojolbt no was in a meeting all day :(23:52
GeneralAntillesthiago_home: then they don't get support from the community or other companies involved?23:52
Termana_n810colonelqubit, and its open - drivers/power/twl4030_bci_battery.c23:52
colonelqubitTermana_n810: I think I was the only one who said *driver* -- everyone else was just talking about BME in general23:52
thiago_homeGeneralAntilles: you can't force the community to do or not do something23:52
lbttekojo: good - so now you can :23:52
lbt)23:52
GeneralAntillesthiago_home: obviously we come up with some carrots to make it an appealing proposition.23:52
arjanDocScrutinizer: same answer I suspect thoguh :023:52
*** notmart has quit IRC23:52
DocScrutinizeryup23:52
lbtgcobb: also see links ^^^23:52
tekojolbt now I can fall asleep23:52
thiago_homeGeneralAntilles: that I can agree with, though I don't think it will happen23:52
*** townxelliot has joined #meego23:52
*** V-PV has left #meego23:52
Termana_n810colonelqubit, i know and i was specifically talk to you about the driver because you said driver :P23:52
*** ImadX has left #meego23:52
*** conny has quit IRC23:53
Termana_n810talking*23:53
*** jarit has left #meego23:53
*** ImadSousou has left #meego23:53
GeneralAntillesthiago_home: either way, having Nokia basically encourage this sort of slimy behavior is a little sickening.23:53
GeneralAntillesIf not at all surprising.23:53
*** puffin has quit IRC23:53
*** sar3th|away has joined #meego23:53
*** sar3th|away is now known as sar3th23:53
*** cyberkonsult has quit IRC23:53
*** ImadSousou has joined #meego23:53
*** haolmake has quit IRC23:53
colonelqubitTermana_n810: Unfortunately I don't have a n900 yet so it would be a bit of trouble to hack on replacing BME even if I wanted to...23:53
*** niqt has quit IRC23:55
thiago_homeGeneralAntilles: "slimy" is a matter of opinion23:55
GeneralAntillesthiago_home: can't install your own kernel, potentially can't install your own firmware23:55
GeneralAntillesI don't find those ethical behaviors.23:55
thiago_homeGeneralAntilles: should I understand you consider Linus slimy because he thinks companies should be allowed to do that?23:55
GeneralAntillesSlimy's perhaps not the best word, but it aint warm and fuzzy.23:55
*** mskarpne has left #meego23:55
Termana_n810colonelqubit, but why would you NEED to replace it, if it works fine? Unless your anal about the fact that you wouldn't be using an open source component23:56
*** mrshaver has quit IRC23:56
thiago_homewhile I don't agree with those companies' positions (personally), I don't think this has anything to do with ethics23:56
*** VDVsx has quit IRC23:56
GeneralAntillesI don't think companies should dictate what I can do with hardware I've bought and paid for.23:56
gcobblbt: thanks -- will read with interest23:56
*** jsv has left #meego23:56
Stskeepsmy initial idea of VSC was to play with a open hand on what we expect from a vendor in order to start including their patches for their devices and use community effort and resources on them23:56
*** Tero_ has left #meego23:57
GeneralAntillesthiago_home: anyway, whatever. It'll pan out how it will, I don't have any say in the matter.23:57
thiago_homeGeneralAntilles: you do have a say in the matter23:57
Stskeepsif they lock down the devices or make them unmaintainable for the users or community, they shouldn't expect our effort or resources23:57
thiago_homeGeneralAntilles: don't buy locked hardware23:57
slainelbt, that's evolved slightly since I last stuck my ore in. Looks good though23:57
GeneralAntillesthiago_home: easy for me, not so easy for the vast majority of consumers.23:57
CosmoHillthiago_home: you say locked hardware and I hear apple23:57
*** huant has quit IRC23:58
GeneralAntillesand unfortunate that Nokia is choosing to allow this sort of abuse of their brand.23:58
thiago_homeGeneralAntilles: because the vast majority of consumers doesn't care23:58
*** tekojo has quit IRC23:58
GeneralAntillesIt'll reflect negatively on MeeGo and make my job as a community support person that much harder.23:58
thiago_homeGeneralAntilles: so you see, you're asking for a value that the vast majority of consumers doesn't see23:58
thiago_homeGeneralAntilles: you're asking that companies subscribe to something that will not increase the value of their product to most consumers23:59
lbtslaine: did you see the logs and summary?23:59
GeneralAntillesI know, I'm just that sort of unreasonable person. :)23:59
slainelbt, not sure23:59
RST38hOk, so, what was the summary?23:59
slainepaste a link and I'll double check23:59
Termana_n810thiago_home, i don't think that is reason enough to lock down the hardware on a device. In fact it would cost companies less to not lock them down.23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!