IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2010-03-16

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VDVsxI simple can't understand to whom they are replying :)00:00
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GeneralAntillesthiago_home, we have militant top-posters on the list.00:05
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, it's amazing how many people completely and utterly fail at quoting00:05
GeneralAntillestop-posting, full-text quoting, etc.00:06
GeneralAntillesIt's not hard00:06
mlfosterGeneralAntilles: as an IRC noob, where does one go to learn stuff like this?00:06
GeneralAntillesmlfoster, mailing list or IRC?00:07
GeneralAntillesBecause quoting is generally irrelevant on IRC. ;)00:07
mlfosterIRC00:07
mlfostersorry00:07
mlfosteryes, you are right on that!00:07
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie had a nice article on proper mailing list quoting procedures00:08
GeneralAntillesDidn't bother to bookmark it, though.00:08
GeneralAntilleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style00:08
mlfosterbut, even with a mailing list. I see some folks reply at the top of a message, and others at the bottom, and still others scatter comments throughout an email...00:08
GeneralAntillesbottom posting is generally considered the same as interleaved00:08
mlfosterthanks for the wikipedia link. I will check it out.00:09
GeneralAntillestop posting is really never acceptable on a mailing list.00:09
GeneralAntillesBasically, only keep the text from the quote that you're actually replying to00:09
GeneralAntillesand try to stick your points next to the points you're responding to.00:10
JaffaSimples.00:10
* thiago_home prefers interleaved text00:12
thiago_homethough I do see the benefit of top-posted text, especially when reading email on a mobile device like the N90000:12
GeneralAntillesthiago_home, mostly because Modest's quoting hasn't improved at all since it was in beta. :)00:12
Jaffathiago_home: Except when I'm mobile, I might read messages out of order00:13
GeneralAntillesI'd love to kill the mailing list tag in the subject line, though. . . .00:13
thiago_homeit's not about writing, it's about reading emails00:13
GeneralAntillesI prefer interleaved on the N900.00:13
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thiago_homeat least the N900 download the entire message00:14
Jazzy_BluesyHello all!00:14
thiago_homeon Symbian, it only downloaded the beginning00:14
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Jazzy_Bluesywill meego suport n900?00:24
BliceIs there code yet?00:24
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kynkyend of q2 i guess00:27
burchrfirst code is due at the end of the month00:29
CosmoHillburchr: to late, they left00:33
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* VDVsx wonders why people insist in using .cc instead of cpp :p00:34
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kynkywhynot .d ?00:35
* CosmoHill uses cpp and sometimes cxx00:35
kynkythe alphabetic increment of c00:35
CosmoHillbut never both in the same project00:35
thiago_homebecause C++ is not D00:36
kynkywell c++ existed a long time before d did00:36
kynkyim just saying its kinda abitary to some extent the extension, aslong as there is convention its ok00:37
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VDVsxCosmoHill, if you were in a project with me the first thing that I would do was rename all your cxx files :P00:39
kynkycheckstyle00:39
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burchrcan't we all just get along?00:40
burchr:P00:40
GeneralAntillesNo! Screw you, burchr.00:40
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burchr:-(00:40
* VDVsx sends beer to burchr 00:40
CosmoHillit would be interesting to work on a project with you00:41
burchr~VDVsx++00:41
CosmoHillatm there is a three way battle of coding styles between me, simon and dreamweaver00:41
VDVsxCosmoHill, nah, I'm a nice guy ;)00:41
kynkydreamweaver ?00:42
CosmoHilli mean in a good way ;)00:42
Myrttiit's Lisp all the way down00:42
* kynky likes haskell00:42
* VDVsx obligated to learn haskell at the Uni :(00:42
VDVsx*was00:43
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CosmoHillI do web programming00:43
CosmoHillVDVsx: have you found that there is a difference between being taught and forced to learn?00:43
kynkyhaskell is awesome00:43
CosmoHillit's rare00:44
VDVsxCosmoHill, yes, I could have learned something more useful for me future00:44
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VDVsxbut is not that bad, it's different let's say00:44
kynkyfor my day job i do Java, but on the web side I use Spring MVC and jQuery00:45
CosmoHilli mean a lecturer will tell you what programming language you have to use but not teach it very well to you00:45
koupsapinaize marveau 10moyene00:45
CosmoHillthreefore you're forced to learn00:45
koupsasorry not here00:45
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kynkyconcurrency and parallelism is the future of computing, and haskell is at the cutting edge for that00:45
VDVsxI also learned Prolog, very useful as well :P00:46
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kynkyyou can get fanless gt 240 too, but i only had 1 spare slot, and they are two slots wide00:48
kynkywrong chan, woops00:48
CosmoHillmy dad is watching a loud movie00:48
CosmoHillif i go to bed now I'll wake up in star trek world00:49
kynkyCosmoHill, which one ?00:49
CosmoHillnewest00:49
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kynkyawesome film if i forget i have ever watched any star trek before00:50
CosmoHilllol00:50
CosmoHilli got it on blu-ray for my dad's birthday00:50
CosmoHillonline prices aren't in store prices :(00:51
docksidestartrek II is the best00:51
kynkyi got it on 1080p too, witth 5.1 surround sound and big amp, is mega awesome00:51
Claykhan!!!!!!!00:51
kynkyi prefer first contact00:51
dockside:)00:51
kynkyle cutis00:52
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CosmoHillcyas01:52
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Blicehum04:14
Blicehas arjan been around?04:14
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Blicehttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/cowon-v5-review/08:03
Blicewhat a cute ui08:03
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|RMX|hello10:22
|RMX|does anyone know if meego will be compatible with N900?10:23
Stskeepsit's going to have a reference implementation for n90010:24
Stskeepsgo read meego.com :)10:24
|RMX|ive been on the site but its more like "hanging" information10:25
thiago_homethe best and only source of information for that answer is the website10:25
thiago_homeread the blog10:25
thiago_homeanything else you may find is second-hand information10:26
|RMX|ok i'll check again10:26
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|RMX|thanks10:26
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timeless_mbpthiago: hey, am i right in recalling that Qt4.4 for wince didn't have WebKit? :)10:27
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|RMX|i guess there really are no definite answers until we see it ....10:32
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thiagotimeless_mbp: you're right10:57
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timeless_mbpi stand by my 4.5 ;-)10:57
thiagoplease do10:57
thiago:-)10:57
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timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure i picked the number 4.5 earlier because i remembered the 4.4 introduction wasn't a complete rollout10:58
thiagoright10:59
thiagoit was the first release10:59
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Stskeepsmorn achipa11:15
achipamorn Stskeeps11:15
Stskeepshow's it going?11:15
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achipaStskeeps: just the usual morning activities, testing, promoting, telling Niels what I broke :)11:19
Stskeepshehe11:19
X-Fadeachipa: Ehm? :)11:19
X-FadeOn my second coffee, so be gentle ;)11:20
achipaX-Fade: the usual headache, promoting PyQt stuff :)11:21
achipaX-Fade: do you need to manually promothe the rest of the packages too, or should that work now ? (though we're OT here, heading back to #maemo)11:23
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X-FadeStskeeps: Ovi? :)13:50
X-FadeDuh, wrong window ;)13:50
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shahinanyone know when the new meego os for netbooks will be released?14:58
thiagoyes, but I can't tell you :-P14:58
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timeless_mbpshahin: hrm, i don't think anyone's going to release an "old meego os for netbooks"15:00
timeless_mbp(thiago could correct me)15:00
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Anssi__will the upcoming meego toolchain based on scratchbox?15:02
heliocastroNo15:03
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Stskeepshopefully not15:04
Anssi__cc15:04
timeless_mbphopefully OBS15:04
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thiagoOBS and cross-compilation15:06
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lcukwhat are home devs going to build test apps with?15:07
lcukfor arm15:07
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lupine_85qtcreator?15:13
lupine_85AIUI, they're integrating it with some toolchain or another15:13
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leinirMadde?15:16
lupine_85that's the one15:16
* leinir still has to try that one out :)15:17
lupine_85yeah. I've mostly found scratchbox to be "good enough" for my needs15:17
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* lupine_85 reads about zypp, feels better about rpm15:22
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leinirThere you go :)15:24
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lupine_85my last proper rpm experience was suse 10.1 ;)15:25
lupine_85says it all, really15:26
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TigerTael;/15:28
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thiagomy last RPM experience was probably this weekend :-P15:35
slaineI assume that zypp is some opensuse rpm manager then15:36
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StskeepsC based, yeah15:37
burchrlet's rewrite it in assembly to make it faster15:38
Stskeepsno, run it on the DSP15:40
burchrthat is a great idea15:40
burchrwe must do it for great justice15:40
Stskeeps(would SAT be quicker on a DSP?)15:40
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lupine_85in terms of library, it looks like a really good idea15:43
lupine_85who knows, perhaps it even makes opensuse usable15:43
lupine_85(last I touched it, it really wasn't)15:43
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slainesame here, I always want to try opensuse but then I remember the bloat and pain I had the last time and I get put off15:51
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gouverneurslaine: you still want to? I stopped touching something with 'suse' written on it years ago16:49
slainegouverneur: Occasionally my geeky side wants to try it out 'cause it's something different16:50
lupine_85yeah, I'm not going to16:50
lupine_85if I want something different, I'll have a first-tiem run at slackware16:51
lupine_85or retry arch16:51
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gouverneurthose people being scared of meego not coming to n900 r pissing me of by now...16:51
slaine?16:52
leinirslaine: on the community ml16:52
gouverneurat the meego mailinglist they start now aswell...16:52
slaineah, never signed up to that one16:52
X-Fadegouverneur: To be honest, nobody actually said it will.16:52
gouverneurnot enough to have the forums spammed with16:52
slaine" and very raw baseline to a source and binary repository to build MeeGo trunk on Intel ATOM boards and Nokia N900."16:53
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slaineX-Fade: surely someone did16:53
gouverneurX-Fade: yes but from telling that the core will run on n900 you can tell that it will come16:53
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X-Fadeslaine: That N900 will be a reference platform, yes.16:55
gouverneur"a final decision has not been made"16:55
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X-Fadeslaine: Not that it will be a commercial product ;)16:55
lupine_85reference platform is good enough for me :)16:55
slaineright16:55
lupine_85TBH, as long as I've got a kernel with support for all the hardware in the phone, I'm happy16:55
X-FadeWhich can basically mean, you can use it to develop MeeGo software on.16:55
X-FadeNot that it will be anything pleasant to use as end user ;)16:56
slaineso same status as the previous n[89][01]0 tablets then when it came to new releases ?16:56
gouverneurand someone said that n900 will get harmattan a few weeks ago when it was about .debVS.rpm16:56
X-FadeFor example, it might not be a phone but a tablet for some time.16:57
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lcukmm16:57
gouverneurX-Fade: might happen...16:57
X-FadeAs I don't know if there is any open phone software available to be used on the short term?16:57
slaineI imagine drivers etc. are the main blocker on full n900 support and the ability to release them fully ?16:58
lupine_85can't be that hard to hack $random_sip_program16:58
X-Fadeslaine: Drivers is actually something that has been worked around a bit already.16:58
gouverneurslaine: drivers may remain closed16:58
X-Fadeslaine: Re-distributing might be an issue though.16:58
slaineI can picture a similar world of pain as those with Menlow platforms16:59
gouverneurand nokia may still have some closed source with their *firmware* for any device16:59
slaine(the Intel / PowerVR GMA500/Poulsbo chipset)16:59
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gouverneurI hope there will be special features in compatibility between the meego versions like meeSync, meeView etc17:01
ShadowJKI guess it depends on how soon meego gets working phone with ofono, there's already an ofono driver that works with n900, so..17:02
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But you can run any kernel in open mode.17:14
gouverneurX-Fade: wrong channel17:14
X-FadeUgh, bad day wrt windows today ;)17:14
gouverneur;)17:14
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gouverneurthose people are realy dipping into a URL typo these days...17:52
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leinirclearly they've nothing better to talk about :)17:55
leiniror do for that matter ;)17:55
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gouverneurleinir: back to work then ;)17:59
leinirthem lazy bums! ;)18:00
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slaineinteresting post from imad there on gtk+ support18:05
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lcukslaine, links help context18:05
slainelcuk, you not on the dev mailing list ?18:06
leinirhttp://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-March/000890.html18:06
slainewot he pasted18:06
leinirIn short: GTK+ will, almost certainly, be part of the core MeeGo software platform18:06
lcukslaine, usually theres more than one place to post something - if you mean the ML let people know where they can look, if you meant a forum post - give links etc18:07
slainek18:07
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lcukthx tho18:07
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thiagoI'm not sure it will be part of "core"18:09
thiagothere may be different core levels18:09
dnearyHi slaine18:12
dnearythiago,18:12
dnearyet al18:12
* slaine waves at dneary18:14
VDVsxwhat's the size of GTK+, does anyone knows ? (more of less)18:14
VDVsxonly the core libs, of course18:15
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Corsac-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 689K Feb 18 23:11 /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0.1800.718:18
Corsac-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.1M Feb 18 23:11 /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.1800.718:18
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dnearyVDVsx, How do you measure size?18:30
VDVsxinstalled size :D18:32
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Stskeepsso, uh18:33
Stskeepssteering group meeting friday.. where?18:33
VDVsxbut that will be less important in the future IMO, a few MB in a +32gb partition is nothing18:33
VDVsxStskeeps, your house ? :D18:34
* GeneralAntilles bets on conference call.18:34
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VDVsxwhere's that info btw ?18:35
lcukVDVsx, will all meego implementations have the full 32gb available for system libraries?18:35
drizztbsdhi18:35
drizztbsdhow can I install gnome?18:35
thiagounlikely18:35
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Stskeepsimad mentioned it on mailing list18:36
VDVsxlcuk, probably not, that's why I agree with thiago's email (some will not have GTK+)18:37
lcukmeego on cig lighters viable then18:37
VDVsximagine a IVS with a Qt UI, probably not need to have GTK+18:37
VDVsxs/not/no18:37
lcukindustrial valve services?18:38
VDVsxerr, the current name IVI,I think18:39
VDVsxanyway in vehicle system18:39
thiagoalso known as IVI18:40
VDVsxprobably IVS is wrong :p, dunno18:40
VDVsxIVS: Intelligent Vehicle System18:41
VDVsxIVI: In-Vehicle Infotainment18:42
VDVsx"Infotainment" sounds weird :D18:43
* Stskeeps ponders idly about the 'next TSG meeting' formulation instead of 'first' :P18:43
thiagoit's because it provides info (maps, GPS, etc) as well as entertainment (radio, sometimes video)18:44
GeneralAntillesthiago, doesn't really make it less weird18:44
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GeneralAntillesand it doesn't apply to just cars.18:44
GeneralAntillesSo it's rather non-specific.18:45
lcukGeneralAntilles, onstar support for your bike is a bit OTT tho18:45
VDVsxsounds like a made up word :D18:46
jannegVDVsx: it is a made up word18:46
GeneralAntillesAll words are made up.18:47
VDVsxwell, you know what I tried to say :)18:47
slonopotamusGeneralAntilles: except for those that aren't, yep.18:49
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, language is not a natural construct. :)18:49
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* lupine_85 does hope he can attend the TSG meeting19:07
lupine_85the repo on19:08
lupine_85..e19:08
Stskeepsthe repo wg meeting you mean :P19:09
lupine_85yuss19:10
lupine_85I'm going to be in deepest cornwall19:10
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lupine_85hopefully there'll be magic power for my phone so I can get magic xchat19:10
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koivulaI encourage my friend at work to install tracking software for his iPhone to see when my n900 with limited software supply arrives :)20:17
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leinir*giggles* Interesting way of solving a problem :)20:19
leinirAs if sitting somewhere hitting refresh on a browser wasn't enough... ;)20:19
gouverneurkoivula: some days ago some iphone stockholm syndrom guy asked me to dodge his graphing app, I took gnuplot and scripted it in less than 1 minute... he had no further questions20:22
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leinir*giggles* it's just so much fun :)20:23
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slainehmmm, about time I was off to the pub20:28
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CosmoHillmew20:28
slaineI won't be around tomorrow, so I'll wish you all a beannachtaí lá feile padraig20:28
CosmoHillI'm gonna have to start doing versioning  on my project20:28
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CosmoHillhollo21:10
CosmoHills/hollo/hello21:10
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CosmoHilldamn bot21:10
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CosmoHillanyone want to see what my awesome program looked like when i started working on it today?22:03
timeless_mbpwhy not?22:03
CosmoHillopen termianl and type "cat /bin/cat"22:03
CosmoHillcos that's what it looked like :(22:03
timeless_mbpoops22:03
CosmoHilllater on i might ask what you guys think of it and for advise / areas of improvement22:04
timeless_mbpdon't cat binary files? :)22:04
CosmoHilloh no, that's just what my program looked like22:05
CosmoHilli think a constructor had failed22:05
thiago_homecat /dev/mouse /dev/watchdog22:05
* CosmoHill goes to create a svn repo22:06
CosmoHillthat way if it all goes wrong i can just jump back some versiosn22:06
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ShadWolfhello i'm glad to hear about the merge of meego and  maemo23:03
CosmoHill:)23:04
Stskeepswe're glad you're glad23:04
ShadWolfi tested  recently mblin on my new netbook acer ONE D250 ans i noticed some slow things and i don't know if that's normal or due to my image23:04
CosmoHillShadWolf: nvidia graphics cards?23:05
ShadWolfok so here are my "problems" first i byte writed the img file on a SD card23:05
ShadWolfno atom n 270 1.6ghz and intel chipset23:05
ShadWolfI noticed a cool app to set up the keyboard23:06
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ShadWolfbut the new layout mapping of the keyboard is not kept23:06
ShadWolfi noticed unlike chromeOS  there is an option install when you boot the moblin image23:06
ShadWolfi noticed the SD intallation can't  keep the new soft downloaded23:07
ShadWolfsince SD card allows to write on it that should be normal to kept the conf and the new intalled software on it23:09
ShadWolfi noticed firefox is dead slow when pages involve big background image and  flash stuffs23:10
ShadWolfso is it possible to install moblin on my SD once and for all instead of having it running as live mode23:11
ShadWolfthere fore do i need a swap partition on the SD card  ?23:11
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CosmoHillrawr23:19
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CosmoHillsilent mode should vibrate23:19
threshand it does, if you tell it so.23:19
CosmoHilli know that now23:20
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CosmoHillyay, Reading 1 - 0 QPR23:56
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inzQuadratic Phrase Recognition?-)23:57
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CosmoHillhehe23:58
CosmoHillQueen's Park Rangers23:58

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