IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2010-03-09

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CosmoHillwho's learning C++?00:59
CosmoHillname begins with D i think00:59
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Beaverwww.search2.net (new search engine)01:01
CosmoHilldie bitch01:01
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CosmoHillhttp://black-flag.co.uk/wordpress/2010/03/08/a-simple-cpp-program/01:05
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LinuxCode[23:01] <CosmoHill> die bitch01:11
LinuxCodeit was made to die01:11
CosmoHilldoes that mean my statement is correct?01:11
LinuxCodelol01:11
LinuxCodeI guess01:11
CosmoHill^.^01:11
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* CosmoHill enables comments on his article01:14
CosmoHillwhat do you guys think about it btw?01:14
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MisterNCosmoHill: the name of the language is c++. not cpp and not cxx.01:15
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AstralStormMisterN: actually, the name is C Plus Plus :)01:17
MisterNno01:17
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CosmoHillthe file extention is .cpp .c++ or .cxx01:18
AstralStormCosmoHill: or .C in case sensitive filesystems01:18
MisterNCosmoHill: or .cc or .C or...01:18
AstralStormyeah, .cc01:18
AstralStormforgot about that one01:18
CosmoHillstop confusing me01:18
MisterNCosmoHill: the file extension is not what defines the language name.01:18
AstralStormI've yet to see .c++ in any real use01:18
MisterNthe name of c++ is c++, nothing else.01:19
AstralStormC++. capital C01:19
AstralStorm;p01:19
MisterNhaha yeah :P01:19
VLJcpp is for c pre processor actually01:19
VLJand cxx is for c++01:19
AstralStormfail.01:19
MisterNVLJ: .cpp is not for c preprocessor01:19
thiagothe C preprocessor is .i01:19
VLJ(x is + with a slight rotation)01:19
AstralStormVLJ: c++ is the app name01:19
MisterNp is for + because some file systems don't support +01:20
AstralStormnot cxx01:20
MisterNAstralStorm: "app name"?01:20
VLJso what is cxx for ?01:20
thiagothe C preprocessor's executable is cpp01:20
AstralStormif we're talking Unix-style at least01:20
AstralStormpreprocessor's, yeah01:20
thiagothe C++ executable is c++ or CC01:20
VLJyep01:20
thiagoor cxx01:20
AstralStormusually c++ or cc01:20
MisterNVLJ: cxx is also a work-around01:20
thiagocc is the C compiler01:20
AstralStormcxx I've yet to see, again :)01:20
thiagoCC is the C++ compiler01:20
AstralStormayup01:20
VLJccplus too01:21
AstralStormbut again, no compiler I've seen uses those01:21
VLJcmake01:21
AstralStormcc1plus01:21
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MisterNsome compilers are named cl01:21
* thiago has seen cc and CC01:21
MisterNand cmake is no compiler01:21
AstralStormbut that's libtool name01:21
thiagoMisterN: yes, and those compilers are usually from Microsoft01:21
AstralStormnot executable name01:21
VLJin fact for cmake cpp is for pre processor, cxx is for c++01:21
VLJin macro name01:21
AstralStormVLJ: cxx does. not. exist. in M$VC, ICC, GCC or Solaris compiler01:21
MisterNVLJ: no, cmake recognises .cpp as the file extension for c++01:21
AstralStormso?01:21
AstralStormVLJ: so, which system has a compiler that's called with cxx?01:22
VLJyep but if you does use CPP_FLAGS it wont pass these flags to g++01:22
VLJyou need CXX_FLAGS01:22
thiagoCXXFLAGS are the C++ compiler flags, CPPFLAGS are the preprocessor flags, but no one uses that01:22
AstralStormthat's cmake-specific01:22
thiagousually it's just CFLAGS and DEFINES01:23
AstralStormCPPFLAGS are used for includes01:23
AstralStormand library paths01:23
AstralStorm(the latter more rarely)01:23
thiagolibrary paths are LFLAGS01:23
AstralStormLDFLAGS.01:23
MisterNquirks :)01:23
AstralStormyeah, that's more often used for them01:23
AstralStormunless you like to use the compiler for linking01:23
AstralStormwhich is supposed to work too01:23
thiagoyou never invoke the linker directly, except in the Microsoft world01:24
MisterNmost compilers do not do linking01:24
thiagoyou always use the compiler front-end for launching the linking01:24
AstralStormthiago: wrong. you can and even should01:24
AstralStormbut you don't have to :)01:24
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MisterNthiago: gcc is more than a compiler ;)01:24
AstralStormanyway, nobody cares01:24
thiagoAstralStorm: so you're supposed to know where the C, C++ libs and runtimes are?01:24
AstralStormMisterN: no, it's c++ standard01:24
thiagoAstralStorm: what's the difference between crt1.o and crti.o?01:24
MisterNAstralStorm: ?01:24
AstralStormthiago: no, linker is smart enough01:25
AstralStormgiving it object files and proper flags is enough01:25
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thiagoI don't think it is01:25
AstralStormof course it is01:25
thiagohow is the linker going to find crt1.o if I don't tell it where it is?01:25
AstralStormbecause you don't have to :)01:25
AstralStormit's POSIX to be /lib/crt1.o01:25
twoboxenLD_LIBRARY_PATH01:25
AstralStormbut of course that's why nobody sane uses ld directly01:26
thiago$ ld -o a.out main.o01:26
thiagold: warning: cannot find entry symbol _start; defaulting to 000000000804807401:26
AstralStormthey either use libtool or autotools01:26
AstralStormthiago: ... I told you don't have to FIND the file01:26
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AstralStormbecause it's mandated by POSIX to be in the specific place01:26
AstralStorm:)01:26
thiago$ ld -o a.out main.o /lib/crt1.o01:26
thiagold: /lib/crt1.o: No such file: No such file or directory01:26
AstralStormcrt0.o actually01:27
thiago$ locate crt0.o | wc -l01:27
thiago001:27
AstralStormoh, your system hates you for being too anal ;)01:27
AstralStormPOSIX.1 is dead, POSIX.2001 lives01:27
thiagoactually, 2008 lives01:27
AstralStormyeah01:27
AstralStormanyway01:27
AstralStormnot playing with ld is fine01:28
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AstralStorm(I bet it's in /usr/lib)01:28
thiagoit is01:28
thiagobut it's also not enough01:28
AstralStormheh01:28
AstralStormso, let's leave ld alone and use libtool?01:28
AstralStormor compiler directly in good old makefiles01:29
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thiagoyou know libtool also runs gcc/g++, right?01:29
AstralStormnot in link mode01:29
thiagowill I have to go prove it to you?01:29
AstralStormno. it *can* run gcc/g++01:29
thiagolet's do it the other way around now. Please show me libtool running directly, not via gcc/g++.01:30
AstralStorm      linker:/usr/bin/ld -m elf_x86_64 (gnu? yes)01:30
AstralStormguess why it wants that :)01:30
AstralStormit uses the linker indeed01:30
AstralStormhuh?01:30
AstralStormlibtool --mode=link <foo.object.files> link whatever01:30
AstralStormI forgot how libtool works temporarily01:31
* thiago should stop wasting his time01:31
AstralStormor libtool link (if you hate --mode)01:31
thiagoI actually hate libtool01:32
AstralStormnot just you01:32
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CosmoHillso what did you guys thing of that guide?01:49
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AstralStormhorrible, that guide02:28
AstralStorm"mutators", first ever02:28
AstralStormit's called an accessor too02:28
AstralStormand bad reasons for accessors02:29
AstralStormif you want to do a guide to object orientation, do mention encapsulation and what it's for (also, when it's useful and why properties are fun - offered by boost for example)02:29
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AstralStormoh, he's not here :)02:30
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* Stskeeps headdesks over the forum discussion09:26
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lcukStskeeps, on which chan09:34
Stskeepson meego-dev or -community, can't recall09:34
Stskeepsah, -community09:34
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DocScrutinizerwtf, how many #meego* chan I'd have to add to my ever growing crowded chan list?10:08
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lcukDocScrutinizer, its just a ploy to invest in a new computer with high enough resolution display to list them all10:10
X-FadeAt more than 10 the blue irrsi bars get annoying for me ;)10:11
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lcukX-Fade, heh10:12
lcuki have chans in a list with micro font10:12
X-Fadelcuk: Split windows in a terminal for me.10:12
* lcuk nods10:13
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Termana_n810heh, i only knew about the one meego room, what are the others? :P10:17
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cyberkonsultI couldn't log on to meegotalk.com using the registered OpenID over at meego.com10:27
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cyberkonsultSuppose we have to wait for it to get ready... :)10:27
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benbrownGAN900: Cheers, I'd done that but for some reason hadn't identified. Working now.10:56
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chetanhello11:04
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Karlososany new news about meego someone could tell me16:39
Stskeepsno, but i have a beer if you want one :)16:40
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Karlososyeah go on need to get drunk lol16:42
Stskeepswe're all waiting for day one16:43
Stskeepsso, what do you hope to contribute with?16:43
aldeni like beer16:43
th0br0Karlosos: source code is supposed to be released until the end of this month in case you didn't know yet.16:44
th0br0there was some official blogpost16:44
Karlososi need to first figure out how to make apps cause would be fun16:45
th0br0Karlosos: learn Qt then16:45
th0br0and heya Stskeeps :P16:45
Karlososbeen advised to wait a couple of months till bugs are sorted16:46
StskeepsKarlosos: qt creator is good to start with :)16:46
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Karlososcan you use that program on pc cause would be easier16:46
Stskeepsyes16:47
Stskeepsgoogle for qt creator :)16:47
Karlososwill do cheers16:47
Karlososhow about a touch screen lightening bolt would that be possible16:48
Stskeepsas in lightening coming out of your touchscreen?16:48
Stskeeps(sp)16:48
Stskeepswell, you start with a balloon and start rubbing it against your hair16:49
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Karlososlol16:49
th0br0:P Stskeeps16:49
Stskeepsthen you turn off the lights and make sure your lcd backlight is not on16:50
Karlososwell was thinking wherever you touched a bolt came from there with thuder sounds16:50
Stskeepsthen slowly approach your finger towards your n900, ideally the metal parts, and you should be able to see lightning coming from it. it's that powerful device.16:50
Stskeeps:P16:50
Karlosostrue ha ha16:51
th0br0:D16:51
Karlososthis phone is great others are too thin and would be scared to break it16:51
Karlososplus there is still way too much to learn16:52
Karlososdoes anyone know why i cant chat in #maemo16:52
Stskeepsyou need to register your nickname16:53
Karlososwhere do i do that16:54
Stskeeps /nickserv help16:54
Karlososis that under server16:54
Karlososor in browser16:55
aldensomeone should mentor for developing qt apps for meego .. perhaps under google soc16:55
aldenor maybe not16:55
Stskeepsproblem is that meego isn't a good gsoc target..16:56
Stskeepsqt apps for maemo might work though16:56
aldenwhy isnt meego a good gsoc project?16:56
Stskeepswell, it is hardly established yet16:57
Stskeepsmaemo is probably a better one16:57
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th0br0in the end, porting qt aps from maemo to meego should be on the fly anyway17:23
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spaghettyhi18:09
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GAN900Oh christ, stupid mailing list threads.19:54
leinirWhich one this time? :)19:55
GAN900The wild wild west one.19:55
leinirAh :)19:56
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GAN900I don't get why people insist on top-posting when they know better, however.19:58
GAN900Quoting isn't hard, don't be an ass by insisting on doing it incorrectly.19:59
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* cyberkonsult wonders how this MeeGo thingie is funded/adminitstraded..20:14
* cyberkonsult corrects himself s/adminitstraded/administraded20:15
th0br0cyberkonsult: i guess by intel + nokia + (maybe?) the linux foundation20:16
cyberkonsultth0br0: Yeah... I was wondering about the servers/forum software at meego, are the admins payed by some fondation or are they doing it on their spare time for free?20:18
VDVsxafaik, the current admins are Intel employees20:19
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cyberkonsultk, I was thinking about the thread at meego-community ML regarding the forum software (vB is not open source), got the impression that the forums war run by ppl on their free time..20:22
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cyberkonsults/forums war/forums was/20:23
infobotcyberkonsult meant: k, I was thinking about the thread at meego-community ML regarding the forum software (vB is not open source), got the impression that the forums was run by ppl on their free time..20:23
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th0br0well, IMHO vB is kinda the best forum software out there right now...20:25
VDVsxcyberkonsult, maemo.org forums are run by a person that is sponsored by nokia, but the forum already existed before Nokia sponsor it20:26
VDVsxthat one is vB20:26
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cyberkonsultAhh...  So it's not someone who is employed by Nokia then..  kind of seems strange to me??20:27
VDVsxnot employed, sponsored20:28
VDVsx:)20:28
VDVsxoh, as what you said :D20:28
VDVsx*was20:28
cyberkonsultWell, I for one would like MeeGo to be a success, and I would like to see Nokia and Intel to show commitment and start writing some checks.....20:30
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VDVsxcyberkonsult, maemo.org has a team of persons sponsored by Nokia to work for the community, the community is responsible to give them tasks and hire them20:30
VDVsxdunno if will be similar team in meego20:30
VDVsxmore info here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team20:31
cyberkonsultVDVsx: great!! Thanks!20:31
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GAN900Gotta love people who don't want to contribute to the original discussion but then put their 2 cents after the decision has been made.21:04
Stskeepslike rpm vs deb?21:04
Stskeeps:P21:04
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Stskeepswb DawnFoster21:05
GAN900Stskeeps, except they choose not to attend an announced public meeting on this topic21:06
GAN900stop motion, baby, it's all the rage!21:06
DawnFosterHi Stskeeps21:06
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X-FadeGAN900: Stop energy?21:07
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cyberkonsultWhats up with talk.maemo.org .. down??22:21
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scr4vehttp://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/talk.maemo.org @ cyberkonsult22:22
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cyberkonsultscr4ve: Thanks... weird... my icmp:s behaving weird, cant traceroute.. maybe my ISP is doing funky stuff.22:41
scr4veyw... btw are there any anouncements out for java on meego?22:42
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billyn900hello22:56
billyn900anybody here22:56
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redis there any image i could test on my netbook?23:54
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redjuts downloading moblin to take a peek how it works, and running maemo on my n900 ofc23:54
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wiretappedIt is official; Netcraft confirms: MeeGo is dying23:58
lcukno wiretapped, meego has just started23:58
wiretappedoh, my bad23:58
lcukits a small ember at the base of a fire23:58
lcukand lots of skilled firestarters are gently coaxing it to life23:59

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