| FatPhil | just for reference, DT will slow you down | 00:22 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Pali: will there be an update for worldclock in cssu-devel? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1365613&postcount=423 | 01:14 |
| Pali | sixwheeledbeast: yes if ade push changed to gitorious and tell me that new version is ready for compiling :-) | 01:15 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ok ta I'll ask him | 01:15 |
| Pali | also need to push new ke-recv to cssu-devel :-) | 01:15 |
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| FatPhil | what kind of fucknut uses grep -x "^...[elided]...$"? | 09:47 |
| FatPhil | what bit about ^ and $ wasn't clear? | 09:47 |
| FatPhil | right, let's flash this fscker, nothing of worth on it, clearly... | 09:48 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: yep, just flash PR1.3 and eMMC | 09:48 |
| FatPhil | maybe I should do it when I'm sober | 09:49 |
| FatPhil | nahhhhhhhhhhh | 09:49 |
| freemangordon | hmm, isn't it too early in the morning to be drunk? | 09:49 |
| FatPhil | I've got the apt sources lists, and the dpkg -l, so I should be able to find any package that was on here in the past that still exists | 09:50 |
| FatPhil | "unfortunately", last night's tasting session consisted entirely of about 9% beers, so I still have a low density of blood in my alcohol stream | 09:51 |
| freemangordon | oh, I see :) | 09:51 |
| FatPhil | so, a 13-2 EMMC image, and either a 36-2 or 38-1 root image | 09:53 |
| freemangordon | both roots will do it, 38-1 has some sertificates blacklisted, but this is in cssu too | 09:53 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: BTW if you're going to jump on cssu-testing, you'd better jump on cssu-thumb | 09:54 |
| freemangordon | same packages, but way faster | 09:54 |
| FatPhil | this device is for being on the bleeding edge | 09:55 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: then cssu-thumb is what you need | 09:56 |
| freemangordon | ~cssu-thumb | 09:56 |
| infobot | somebody said cssu-thumb was <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597 | 09:56 |
| FatPhil | nope, a whole pint of pineapple and grapefruit juice is what I need | 09:56 |
| FatPhil | haha, man, I feel so dumb, I've not used this flasher in about 2 years | 09:58 |
| freemangordon | try some yougurt, mixed with water and a bit of salt, this is what I use usually | 09:58 |
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| freemangordon | unfortunately google translates the above mixture as "kefir" which for sure is not true :D | 09:58 |
| FatPhil | hmmm, salty lassi | 09:59 |
| jon_y | is there a way to lock only the hildon-desktop orientation? | 09:59 |
| freemangordon | yes | 09:59 |
| jon_y | I was doing it with gconftool in earlier versions | 09:59 |
| freemangordon | the same in newer | 09:59 |
| jon_y | but now the option seems to be ignored | 09:59 |
| freemangordon | ~cssu | 10:00 |
| infobot | methinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 10:00 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/desktop_orientation_lock -t bool true | 10:01 |
| jon_y | infobot: desktop-lock is gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/desktop_orientation_lock -t bool true | 10:02 |
| infobot | okay, jon_y | 10:02 |
| jon_y | freemangordon: strange, I set it through the gui gconf editor | 10:03 |
| jon_y | it didn't work there | 10:03 |
| jon_y | ah wait, I spoke too soon | 10:03 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: then check your gonf editor :) | 10:03 |
| jon_y | no, still going into potrait | 10:03 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: this locks only desktop, not tasknav or app menu | 10:03 |
| jon_y | yeah, I want to lock desktop only | 10:04 |
| freemangordon | weird | 10:04 |
| jon_y | is it maybe because of turbo speed hack? | 10:04 |
| freemangordon | no, the same happens here | 10:05 |
| jon_y | ok, yours is not locking either? | 10:05 |
| freemangordon | yep | 10:05 |
| freemangordon | please file a bug | 10:05 |
| jon_y | how do I file bug? | 10:05 |
| jon_y | ok http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | 10:06 |
| FatPhil | is the website rather flakey? | 10:06 |
| freemangordon | https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Maemo%205%20Community%20SSU | 10:06 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: BMO works just fine | 10:07 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: you need to register to enter a bug ofc | 10:08 |
| FatPhil | wiki wasn't | 10:08 |
| jon_y | ok | 10:08 |
| freemangordon | wiki is ok too | 10:08 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: ^^^ | 10:08 |
| FatPhil | it's my wifi then | 10:09 |
| jon_y | freemangordon: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12707 | 10:17 |
| povbot_ | Bug 12707: /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/desktop_orientation_lock setting ignored | 10:17 |
| freemangordon | thanks | 10:17 |
| jon_y | btw, is there no way to get around the red boxes in turbo mode? | 10:18 |
| freemangordon | nfc | 10:18 |
| jon_y | I remember it did not have red boxes when setting it for the first time | 10:18 |
| jon_y | only appeared after the reboot | 10:18 |
| jon_y | disabling the turbo hack removes the red boxes | 10:19 |
| jon_y | it is back reenabling it | 10:19 |
| freemangordon | shit, ke-recv-extra doesn't have dbg package :( | 10:19 |
| jon_y | I'm fine living with the red boxes though, no biggie | 10:19 |
| jon_y | fast menu makes n900 feels fast | 10:19 |
| FatPhil | stock nokia software is shit | 10:24 |
| freemangordon | :D | 10:24 |
| FatPhil | I've just waited a minute for the browser to load the wiki page, so I could install the thumb repo | 10:24 |
| FatPhil | not even briefly did the piece of shit browser think that it ought to ask me where the freaking internet is | 10:25 |
| freemangordon | hmm, it is possible your network connection to be crappy | 10:25 |
| FatPhil | we interviewed someone from the browser team a few weeks ago | 10:25 |
| FatPhil | I forgot to punch him in the face | 10:25 |
| FatPhil | normally it's amazing | 10:26 |
| FatPhil | I live on a university campus, we have more bandwidth than I know what to do with | 10:28 |
| FatPhil | except today, apparently | 10:28 |
| FatPhil | but that doesn't stop the builtin browser from being a steaming pile | 10:29 |
| freemangordon | try thumb2 version, you'll be surprised | 10:30 |
| FatPhil | If I can get the current browser pointing in the direction of that repo, I'll do that | 10:30 |
| FatPhil | it really does stink | 10:31 |
| FatPhil | I just disconnects from the wlan, thought I'd try again, and then I did a web search - again, it didn't ask me where the internet was. | 10:31 |
| FatPhil | bring back the nokia bugzilla, I want to get some serious swearing out of my system | 10:31 |
| FatPhil | Maybe they broke it in week 38 | 10:32 |
| FatPhil | whilst they were rejecting real bug fixes, they were incorporating regressions instead | 10:33 |
| FatPhil | I think this is the first time I've used week 38's image, it's tragically fucked | 10:33 |
| FatPhil | my daily device is working fine (the week 36 image) | 10:36 |
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| FatPhil | woh, I can downgrade?!??! | 10:37 |
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| FatPhil | I didn't check, maybe this has an R&D certificate on it | 10:38 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: wait, what are you doing? | 10:38 |
| freemangordon | did you run cssu-installer? | 10:39 |
| FatPhil | haven't run anything on the PoS yet | 10:42 |
| FatPhil | I've just put 36-2 on it, as 38-1 simply didn't work | 10:42 |
| FatPhil | Only nokia could have a shutdown process that starts daemons... | 10:43 |
| FatPhil | (that's a lie...) | 10:43 |
| jon_y | freemangordon: btw, is the n900 qemu a workable solution to test kernel modifications? | 10:43 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: ask Pali, I've never used it | 10:44 |
| jon_y | ok | 10:44 |
| jon_y | will ping him when I see him | 10:44 |
| FatPhil | when you test kernel mods - do you have the ability to upload the kernel only to RAM, and run from there? or do you have to flash it? | 10:45 |
| freemangordon | flasher can be used to boot the kernel | 10:46 |
| freemangordon | but modules should be on rootfs | 10:46 |
| jon_y | yeah | 10:47 |
| FatPhil | no --initfs switch? | 10:47 |
| jon_y | alternatively I could just put it in /opt/boot and use uboot | 10:47 |
| jon_y | don't think it can | 10:47 |
| jon_y | also, what kind of dev environment do you guys use? | 10:48 |
| jon_y | at least gcc-4.7.x pls :) | 10:48 |
| jon_y | the linaro gcc? | 10:49 |
| FatPhil | I build kernels with 4.4.1 apparently | 10:49 |
| jon_y | uboot and linux 3.1x apparently requires 4.7 at least | 10:50 |
| FatPhil | anything that requires a particular compiler version is broken, IMHO | 10:50 |
| jon_y | no, it needs some new features | 10:50 |
| FatPhil | then it would be broken, see my statement 2 lines up ^^^ | 10:51 |
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| freemangordon | FatPhil: do you remember having problems with gio channels and newer kernels? | 10:51 |
| FatPhil | gpio? | 10:52 |
| freemangordon | gio | 10:52 |
| jon_y | FatPhil: you backported gcc-4.7 features? | 10:52 |
| freemangordon | GIOChannel | 10:52 |
| FatPhil | jon_y: what about what I've said lead you to that conclusion? | 10:52 |
| freemangordon | there is gio set on /proc/mounts | 10:52 |
| jon_y | it does require some new features from later versions | 10:52 |
| jon_y | iirc some new asm instruction | 10:53 |
| freemangordon | the callback is called every now and then, with GIOCondition == G_IO_IN | 10:53 |
| freemangordon | this looks similar o the poll() case | 10:53 |
| freemangordon | *to | 10:53 |
| jon_y | something to do with DSP instructions according to pali | 10:53 |
| jon_y | well, here are the binaries I found if anyone is interested https://launchpad.net/linaro-toolchain-binaries/+download | 10:54 |
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| freemangordon | jon_y: 4.2.1 just can't parse some of the headers | 10:54 |
| FatPhil | GIO gives me nothing but glib hits | 10:54 |
| jon_y | hi Pali | 10:54 |
| jon_y | freemangordon: ok | 10:54 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: yeah | 10:54 |
| FatPhil | wtf's that to do with the kernel? | 10:54 |
| freemangordon | Pali: hi, hulda hits a problem similar to the poll() one | 10:55 |
| FatPhil | if glib can't do something, that's a glib problem | 10:55 |
| freemangordon | sure | 10:55 |
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| jon_y | Pali: what dev environment do you recommend to work with if I were to do some kernel hacking | 10:56 |
| jon_y | ? | 10:56 |
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| FatPhil | chrish, 36-2's horrifically broken too, for the same reason | 10:56 |
| freemangordon | Pali: it does g_io_add_watch on /proc/mounts and the callback is non-stop called with GIOCondition == G_IO_IN | 10:56 |
| Pali | jon_y: is some env needed? I'm using crosscompiler and that is all | 10:56 |
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| Pali | freemangordon: ok, thanks | 10:57 |
| jon_y | Pali: I see | 10:57 |
| Pali | freemangordon: glib does not support some flag? | 10:57 |
| jon_y | Pali: https://launchpad.net/linaro-toolchain-binaries/+download these will do fine? | 10:57 |
| freemangordon | Pali: the same happens for a NETLINK socket | 10:57 |
| freemangordon | seems like | 10:57 |
| Pali | jon_y: which distribution do you have? | 10:57 |
| Pali | freemangordon: I'm sure you *can* wait for data on netlink | 10:58 |
| jon_y | Pali: plain debian testing | 10:58 |
| Pali | freemangordon: also in my kernel branch there is already reverted sysfs patch... | 10:59 |
| freemangordon | Pali: the problem is that the callback is called with cond == G_IO_IN|G_IO_ERR, which hulda doesn't process. I will fix that and see what happens | 10:59 |
| freemangordon | because someone never think that cond is a bitfiels | 11:00 |
| freemangordon | *bitfield | 11:00 |
| Pali | ok, try to fix it | 11:00 |
| freemangordon | Pali: http://pastebin.com/zm0dHXeP | 11:01 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: any clue what hulda is supposed to do? | 11:01 |
| Pali | jon_y: looks like debian does not have arm cross comilers in repository | 11:01 |
| Pali | try to install some | 11:01 |
| freemangordon | I will try | 11:01 |
| jon_y | ok | 11:01 |
| Pali | freemangordon: no | 11:02 |
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| jon_y | Pali: also, what do you recommend I use if I am to rebuild your power kernel? | 11:02 |
| jon_y | just cross compilers? | 11:02 |
| Pali | jon_y: for kernel-power, you can use scratchbox or madde too | 11:02 |
| FatPhil | ubuntu has xcompilers | 11:03 |
| jon_y | ~scratchbox | 11:03 |
| infobot | [scratchbox] a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, or hosted by maemo.org now, maintainer thedead1440 | 11:03 |
| Pali | but cross compiler is enough (if you do not want flasher package) | 11:03 |
| jon_y | I want the boot image for uboot | 11:03 |
| Pali | for zImage you do not needed nothing else | 11:03 |
| jon_y | ok, just scratchbox | 11:04 |
| jon_y | ~madde | 11:04 |
| jon_y | something like this I guess http://wiki.maemo.org/CSSU-thumb_toolchain_setup_%28gcc4.7.2-linaro%29 | 11:05 |
| FatPhil | nah, wifi just doesn't seem to work in this device :-( | 11:09 |
| FatPhil | gonna make installing CSSU rather hard | 11:09 |
| kerio | i have that problem too :c | 11:11 |
| kerio | usb networking is still an option | 11:11 |
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| FatPhil | the bizarre thing is that I'm sure it worked before I flashed it | 11:13 |
| FatPhil | only nokia could write software that shuts down in order to power up | 11:15 |
| freemangordon | Pali: netlink socket problem solved | 11:16 |
| Pali | ok :-) | 11:17 |
| freemangordon | Pali: do you have rights to create repos on gitorious (CSSU that is)? | 11:18 |
| jon_y | ~kp | 11:18 |
| infobot | methinks kp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85665 | 11:18 |
| FatPhil | woh - I just had the blue-on-white nokia logo with the 5-dots animaation playing in front of it | 11:19 |
| Pali | freemangordon: no :-( | 11:19 |
| freemangordon | oh | 11:20 |
| Pali | ~kp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89823 | 11:20 |
| infobot | Pali: i already had it that way | 11:20 |
| Pali | ~kernel-power | 11:20 |
| Pali | ~kp | 11:20 |
| infobot | i guess kp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85665 | 11:20 |
| Pali | infobot: no kp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89823 | 11:21 |
| infobot | i already had it that way, Pali | 11:21 |
| Pali | ~kp | 11:21 |
| infobot | rumour has it, kp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85665 | 11:21 |
| jon_y | my debian vm hasn't been powered up for nearly a year, time to update everything | 11:22 |
| jon_y | yeah, looks like linaro 4.7.2 is still there | 11:24 |
| Pali | merlin1991: ping | 11:31 |
| FatPhil | ok, how to diagnose wifi issues? | 11:33 |
| freemangordon | dmesg/syslog? | 11:33 |
| FatPhil | [ 497.545776] wlan0: authenticated | 11:34 |
| FatPhil | [ 497.545806] wlan0: associate with AP 94:44:52:bb:52:7d | 11:34 |
| FatPhil | [ 497.551605] wlan0: RX AssocResp from 94:44:52:bb:52:7d (capab=0x411 status=0 aid=3) | 11:34 |
| FatPhil | [ 497.551635] wlan0: associated | 11:34 |
| FatPhil | wlan0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:26:CC:77:EE:BF inet addr:192.168.2.6 Bcast:192.168.2.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 | 11:34 |
| freemangordon | did you try to reboot the router? | 11:34 |
| FatPhil | that's in another guy's room :-( | 11:34 |
| freemangordon | :( | 11:35 |
| Pali | FatPhil: try to look in syslog, wlancond or icd2 sometimes write something... | 11:36 |
| freemangordon | Pali: /proc/mounts problem fixed too, need a git repo to commit | 11:44 |
| freemangordon | :) | 11:44 |
| Pali | freemangordon, create personal clone on maemo.gitorious.org | 11:45 |
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| FatPhil | woh, this thing doesn't have syslog! | 11:45 |
| FatPhil | I can ping my daily device over wifi | 11:47 |
| FatPhil | another flatmate's skyping, so wifi works for him | 11:48 |
| FatPhil | it seems to be just this browser that's failing | 11:48 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: add repos by hand | 11:48 |
| freemangordon | deb http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/ fremantle free non-free | 11:49 |
| jon_y | Pali: this patch still needed? https://privatepaste.com/4c45dacdb4 | 11:49 |
| freemangordon | deb http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-thumb/ fremantle free non-free | 11:49 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: both of them needed | 11:49 |
| jon_y | seems to be some trouble with newer binutils | 11:49 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: also make sure you have all the nokia repos enabled | 11:49 |
| Pali | jon_y: try to compile with or without that patch | 11:50 |
| jon_y | Pali: I made this patch some time ago | 11:50 |
| jon_y | I'm srestarting my kp builds | 11:51 |
| Pali | this patch is needed in upstream 3.x kernel | 11:51 |
| Pali | but no idea if for 2.6 too | 11:51 |
| freemangordon | Pali: another problem - if you lock the device, the leds got switched off, but digitizer is still active, any clue? | 11:51 |
| jon_y | Pali: it was for kp52 | 11:52 |
| Pali | digitizer? | 11:52 |
| freemangordon | touch screen works | 11:52 |
| jon_y | so yes, if you use newer linaro, I think | 11:52 |
| jon_y | it would be nice if you can accept it :) | 11:52 |
| Pali | freemangordon, mce problem? | 11:52 |
| freemangordon | seems like, just mentioning it here | 11:52 |
| Pali | jon_y: but old gcc on autobuilder does not know anything about that sec | 11:53 |
| Pali | freemangordon: we need to patch MCE... | 11:53 |
| jon_y | I see, ok | 11:53 |
| Pali | I already have tree with trying to backport harmattan version for fremantle | 11:53 |
| freemangordon | Pali: hmm, don;t sound good | 11:53 |
| Pali | I think now it compiling, but it was nvere tested | 11:53 |
| freemangordon | doesn't even | 11:54 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: you found the initial fremantle tree state? | 11:55 |
| Pali | no, it does not exists | 11:55 |
| freemangordon | :( | 11:55 |
| Pali | what we have is diablo MCE | 11:55 |
| Pali | and harmattan MCE | 11:55 |
| Pali | and fremantle dbus files | 11:55 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: do you have fremantle mce git tree on your laptop by chance :)? | 11:55 |
| Pali | so with above data I tried to reconstruct fremantle MCE | 11:56 |
| freemangordon | ok, no more hulda eating 100% CPU | 11:56 |
| freemangordon | Pali: I see | 11:56 |
| freemangordon | Pali: ke-recv will have to be fixed too :( | 11:59 |
| freemangordon | it does not automount uSD on backcover closed. and filemanager segfaults | 11:59 |
| freemangordon | hopefully we have all that | 12:00 |
| freemangordon | source code I mean | 12:00 |
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| jon_y | where can I get the in progress 3.x kernel? | 12:04 |
| jon_y | how do I start playing with it? :) | 12:04 |
| FatPhil | operation failed (no updates available) | 12:11 |
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| Pali | killall apt-get and apt-worker processes, close HAM and open it again | 12:15 |
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| FatPhil | done, even rebooted the wireless router | 12:25 |
| FatPhil | laptop's coping, daily device is working, samsung's working, n9 isnt, new n900 isnt. | 12:29 |
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| FatPhil | how can this POS be 400MB into swap already, and I've not even done anything with it yet?!?!? | 12:36 |
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| FatPhil | even packed data isn't working | 12:51 |
| FatPhil | s/packed/packet/ | 12:51 |
| FatPhil | hmmm, this device ist kaput | 12:52 |
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| FatPhil | it's so unresponsive too, takes several seconds to respond to a screen tap sometimes | 12:53 |
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| freemangordon | FatPhil: 400MB of swap?!? | 12:55 |
| freemangordon | never seen that | 12:55 |
| FatPhil | 393200 | 12:55 |
| FatPhil | according to free | 12:56 |
| freemangordon | omg, what top has to say about it? | 12:56 |
| FatPhil | tracker's flattening my battery | 12:56 |
| freemangordon | but who is using that memory? | 12:56 |
| FatPhil | tracker's using 107m | 12:57 |
| FatPhil | RSS | 12:57 |
| freemangordon | did you flash eMMC? | 12:57 |
| FatPhil | yeah | 12:59 |
| freemangordon | hmm, wait a second | 12:59 |
| FatPhil | 13-2 EMMC | 12:59 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: do http://pastebin.com/zkcH4NXp | 13:00 |
| freemangordon | but still, 400MB of swap?!? | 13:01 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: besides tracker, what else eats the memory? | 13:03 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: look in the chanlog from yesterday, Pali posted a link to his repo | 13:06 |
| Pali | elinux.org/N900 | 13:07 |
| Pali | here are all links | 13:07 |
| FatPhil | freemangordon: nothing obviously enormous | 13:11 |
| FatPhil | mmcqd is using that's a bit of a lie - it all looks like bloatware to me | 13:12 |
| FatPhil | pulseaudo 80MB!?!?! | 13:12 |
| freemangordon | 36-2 firmware? | 13:13 |
| FatPhil | signond 23MB, maemo-xinpit-sounds 43MB, camera-ui 54MB | 13:13 |
| FatPhil | I put 38-1 back on, aftr 36-2 was equally broken | 13:14 |
| freemangordon | ~flashing | 13:14 |
| freemangordon | ~flash | 13:14 |
| freemangordon | ~ping | 13:14 |
| FatPhil | osso-connectivity-ui-dialogs 47MB | 13:14 |
| freemangordon | she is dead :( | 13:14 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: that looks impossible to me. Not that I don't trust you :) | 13:16 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: you used the release firmware, ain't? | 13:16 |
| FatPhil | what we called the PR image, yes | 13:17 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: is it the same http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/nokia_N900/RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin ? | 13:19 |
| freemangordon | BTW 38-1 is not released | 13:20 |
| freemangordon | afaik | 13:20 |
| FatPhil | I can go back to 36-2 | 13:21 |
| FatPhil | literally got nothing to lose | 13:21 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: download eMMC and rootfs from http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/nokia_N900/, just in case | 13:21 |
| FatPhil | my file sizes are identical | 13:22 |
| jon_y | freemangordon: ok | 13:22 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: hmm, ok | 13:22 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: make sure to follow the "flashing emmc" sequence | 13:22 |
| FatPhil | I lie - what I've got named 38-1 is the same size as what you have as 36-2. | 13:23 |
| jon_y | PowerVR SGX530 :( | 13:23 |
| jon_y | how is PowerVR supposed to work anyway? | 13:23 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: well, download both images from the above link and make sure you follow the instructions on http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#N900 | 13:24 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: esp the part that you have to flasf rootfs after eMMC, without rebooting. iirc | 13:24 |
| freemangordon | *flash | 13:24 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: hmm? | 13:24 |
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| jon_y | freemangordon: according to pali's link http://elinux.org/N900 | 13:25 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: 2.6.28 powervr driver is forward-ported to 3.x kernels | 13:25 |
| jon_y | oh, it works already? | 13:26 |
| freemangordon | the point is that it is not upstreamed and will never be aiui | 13:26 |
| jon_y | ok, it works but will not be upstreamed | 13:26 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: how do you think we boot maemowithout working graphics? | 13:26 |
| jon_y | license problems? | 13:26 |
| FatPhil | md5sum differs... | 13:27 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: well, noone CBA to upstream it | 13:27 |
| FatPhil | EMMC is a match though | 13:27 |
| jon_y | I see | 13:27 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: not to say it is TI/Imagination's job to do that | 13:28 |
| FatPhil | ooooh, I had a LEGACY image, maybe that's what's confusing it | 13:28 |
| FatPhil | reflashing with the skeiron images | 13:29 |
| jon_y | yeah, I know, I thought PowerVR hate linux | 13:29 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 13:29 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: ^^^ | 13:29 |
| jon_y | infamous for not documenting their hw | 13:29 |
| * freemangordon is afk | 13:30 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yoghurt, water, salt? AYRAN | 13:31 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: exactly, I was not sure there is such word in english :D | 13:32 |
| freemangordon | there is no better cure for hangover | 13:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think there is such word in turkish only | 13:33 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 13:33 |
| freemangordon | though we use it in bulgarian too | 13:33 |
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| FatPhil | what's a hangover? they're for amateurs, I hear. | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hangover? never happens when you take many minerals and one aspirin the evening before you would awake with hangover | 13:39 |
| jon_y | freemangordon is bulgarian and DocScrutinizer05 is ...? :) | 13:40 |
| sixwheeledbeast | hungover? | 13:40 |
| jon_y | that too :) | 13:41 |
| jon_y | or maybe he meant Hanoverian | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | damn bot | 13:44 |
| FatPhil | right, not swapping frantically any more | 13:44 |
| FatPhil | how bizarre | 13:45 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +v infobot | 13:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~spell hangover | 13:45 |
| infobot | 'hangover' may be spelled correctly | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~spell hungover | 13:46 |
| infobot | 'hungover' may be spelled correctly | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict hungover | 13:46 |
| infobot | could not find definition for hungover | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict hangover | 13:46 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'hangover' (2 of 5): \hangover\ n. 1. An unpleasant feeling, such as a headache, occurring as an aftereffect from the use of drugs (especially alcohol). [WordNet 1.5 +PJC] 2. an official who remains in office after his term. Syn: holdover. [WordNet 1.5] ;; an official who remains in office after his term . | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict 2 hangover | 13:47 |
| infobot | [2/5] disagreeable aftereffects from the use of drugs (especially alcohol) | 13:47 |
| FatPhil | yay - internet! | 13:48 |
| FatPhil | so, off to CSSU/Thumb... | 13:50 |
| FatPhil | is it basically going to replace everything on the device? | 13:54 |
| FatPhil | where are "Nokia" and "Extras" catalogues? | 13:56 |
| jon_y | will 0xFFFF be ever ported to windows? | 13:56 |
| FatPhil | ah, "Extras" = "maemo.org" | 13:58 |
| jon_y | what exactly does 0xffff require anyway? | 13:58 |
| jon_y | ah libusb | 13:58 |
| jon_y | windows has libusb | 13:58 |
| jon_y | uh oh, ioctl | 13:59 |
| jon_y | probably relegated to cygwin now | 13:59 |
| jon_y | oh #include <linux/fs.h> | 13:59 |
| jon_y | forget cygwin either | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FatPhil: it's just a supplementary repo on top of cssu | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which in turn is a supplementary repo on top of the base nokia repo | 14:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | cssu-thumb need a thumb-enabled kernel though, or device will segfault like mad | 14:01 |
| FatPhil | busy clicking "OK"... | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu | 14:02 |
| infobot | methinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 14:02 |
| jon_y | does it make sense to enable selinux on n900? | 14:02 |
| jon_y | you know, because *secure* | 14:03 |
| FatPhil | does it make sense to enable selinux anywhere?!??! | 14:03 |
| jon_y | I don't know, I know the text editor isn't supposed to run external programs | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~pr131 | 14:05 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/fiasco+co/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 14:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | isn't this guy running maemo.cloud-7.de a really helpful dude? | 14:06 |
| FatPhil | hmmm, app manager is saying liqtm-bearer conflicts with some of the stuff | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | QtM hmmmmm | 14:07 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 would probably kill qtm with fire on his device | 14:08 | |
| FatPhil | saying "No"... | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what are you doing? CSSU? | 14:10 |
| FatPhil | am mow | 14:10 |
| FatPhil | s/ m/ n/ | 14:10 |
| infobot | FatPhil meant: am now | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf mow | 14:10 |
| infobot | Gee... I don't know what mow means... | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lag | 14:11 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 does a mtr from neocortex to dsl modem | 14:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh, there's a few -ENOCAFFEINE in syslog | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're following the procedure in http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU ? | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | faithfully? | 14:14 |
| FatPhil | I think so | 14:14 |
| FatPhil | downloading 50.0 MB ... | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only update the CSSU system update | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't do an update-all | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | most of the stuff will get updated by cssu-update anyway | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | update-all time for after cssu got installed | 14:15 |
| FatPhil | yup | 14:15 |
| FatPhil | Updating 'Maemo 5 Community SSU Package(thumb)' | 14:17 |
| FatPhil | I need some freaking breakfast | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm completely lost on the correct procedure to directly upgrade to cssu-thumb | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | h,, too early for breakfast here | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm even | 14:18 |
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| FatPhil | operating system successfully updated | 14:22 |
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| FatPhil | where's the list of closed source packages? | 14:24 |
| arcean | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages | 14:26 |
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| FatPhil | many thanks | 14:37 |
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| jonwil | hi | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DMAN BOT!! | 14:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hi jonwil | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how's RE business? | 14:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~closed | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ping | 14:57 |
| jonwil | Haven't really been inspired to do any N900 work lately, been busy with other stuff (including spending time trying to find someone who will pay me to write code since I am currently unemployed :) | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | same here | 14:58 |
| jonwil | although having read through most of the big Neo900 project, I might be inspired to jump back into reverse engineering of those bits that will be the most useful to the Neo900 project going forward from a software perspective (if one could figure out what those actually are :) | 14:59 |
| FatPhil | unemployment in 4 weeks and counting... | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bot is really dead | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: GREAT! | 15:00 |
| *** infobot has quit IRC | 15:02 | |
| jonwil | What I need to do is figure out who is actually thinking about Neo900 software (if anyone) and get a discussion going about just what blobs are going to need replacing to make Neo900 project possible | 15:02 |
| jonwil | Also right now I need something good to sink my teeth into so I can completly avoid the TV and internet news (we just had an election in my country and it looks like the party I really really hate is going to win with a massive majority and bring in all these laws that are bad for the country and only good for the big end of town so reading news about it will just make me depressed) | 15:04 |
| jon_y | jonwil: replace proprietary software? | 15:05 |
| jon_y | is it possible to rework the sim interface code so I can save numbers into sim cards? | 15:06 |
| jonwil | I dont know enough about the SIM interface to answer that question | 15:07 |
| jon_y | ok, what do you plan to work on? | 15:07 |
| jonwil | I dont know | 15:07 |
| jonwil | I need to talk to people who actually know things about the Neo900 and its planned software stack in order to figure out where my skills would be most useful... | 15:08 |
| jon_y | all I know that it is supposed to be compatible with the original n900 | 15:08 |
| jonwil | yeah I read that too | 15:09 |
| jonwil | I seriously doubt they will be able to use the same cellular modem though so replacing the cellular services daemon will probably be necessary | 15:09 |
| dos1 | jonwil: we plan to use FSO (freesmartphone.org) for the GSM middleware and implement some kind of bridge between it and isi so blobs can still access modem like they do on N900 | 15:09 |
| jon_y | oh, make conversation recording less of a pain | 15:10 |
| jon_y | if the neo900 can record calls automatically and easily, I'd be raelly happy | 15:10 |
| jon_y | recaller is a bit buggy at times | 15:11 |
| dos1 | or reimplement GSM daemon to have the same API but use FSO internally | 15:11 |
| dos1 | I'm not sure how GSM middleware works right now on Maemo (but I'm quite experienced with FSO) | 15:11 |
| jonwil | GSM on maemo is done by the cellular services daemon | 15:11 |
| jonwil | and by plugins for that daemon (e.g. csd-call, csd-gprs, csd-sms etc) | 15:12 |
| jonwil | most of the talking to the next pieces up in the stack is done by dbus | 15:12 |
| dos1 | so I guess we can try to reimplement its dbus API with a bridge that will call FSO dbus API | 15:13 |
| jonwil | I suspect a useful use of my time would be to document as much as possible of the places (dbus and otherwise) where the cellular services daemon and its plugins/related libraries talk to the outside world and the upper levels of the N900 software stack | 15:13 |
| jonwil | Its hard because the cellular services daemon dbus interface is undocumented :( | 15:13 |
| dos1 | jonwil: yeah, that would be great | 15:16 |
| jon_y | make a fake dbus server that pass stuff through? | 15:16 |
| dos1 | what about hacking libdbus to log every call made via it? :D | 15:17 |
| jon_y | yeah, something like that | 15:17 |
| jon_y | yay printf debugging! | 15:17 |
| kerio | just use dbusmonitor | 15:18 |
| kerio | *dbus-monitor | 15:18 |
| jonwil | The issue isn't logging things (that's what dbus-monitor is for), its figuring out what stuff actually does and about making sure you have covered every possible interface (which involves reverse-engineering) | 15:18 |
| jonwil | It is a pitty the N900 community does not have the kind of guru-level reverse engineering guys that other communities have | 15:24 |
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| dos1 | jonwil: some an alternative to reimplementing csd api would be reusing csd and imitating isi modem (which seems to be documented pretty well) | 15:27 |
| dos1 | but I guess getting rid of csd blob could be beneficial in long term | 15:28 |
| FatPhil | hmmm, so now I have thumb CSSU what should I do with it? | 15:29 |
| jonwil | isi modem isn't as documented as you might think | 15:29 |
| Pali | freemangordon, did you fixed hulda? | 15:29 |
| dos1 | jonwil: there already is working ISI support in FSO | 15:31 |
| dos1 | (but not sure if complete) | 15:32 |
| dos1 | so it'd have to be "reversed", and I suspect imitating modem should be a bit easier than handling it | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: (replacing cmt interface sw) indeed, that's the most demanding and painful/problemantic part | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, dos1 beat me to it | 15:38 |
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| dos1 | :) | 15:39 |
| jonwil | parts of ISI are well documented (mostly though the work Nokia did when they added N900 support to ofono) but lots of other parts are not documented (for example there is a dbus call named get_service_provider_info and there is no documentation at all anywhere for the ISI calls that this dbus call ultimately matches to | 15:39 |
| jonwil | There are parts we have documentation on from various sources | 15:40 |
| jonwil | Parts we have some limited details of (e.g. header files with data structures) but no documentation | 15:40 |
| jonwil | And parts we have nothing for | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I thought we might replace libisi? | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | isn't there such a thing that finally handles *all* communication 8minus sound) to the modem? | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | would be one (or more) layer *under* csd* | 15:41 |
| jonwil | Basically what you have is modem firmware | 15:42 |
| jonwil | then kernel and drivers that talk to it | 15:42 |
| dos1 | I'm not sure if such thing like libisi exists in Maemo | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/lib/libisi.so.1 | 15:42 |
| dos1 | och, so it exists :) | 15:42 |
| jonwil | ok, so basically what you have is libisi doing most of the communications to the modem (some other bits of the system may talk to kernel directly without going through libisi but I dont know about that) | 15:43 |
| jonwil | libisi though is a generic library for talking to the modem and passing data packets from higher level libs | 15:43 |
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| jonwil | 'and its totally undocumented | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are more than one approach to this, we need to discuss the pros and cons of each | 15:44 |
| dos1 | so confusing... library fso and ofono folks worked on was also named libisi | 15:44 |
| jonwil | and totally different to any isi code in fso (or in ofono where fso guys got lots of the N900/isi code/info from IIRC) | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm sure we will be able to RE what libisi API offers | 15:45 |
| dos1 | personally I'd prefer to see csd being replaced with fso bridge, such solution would be the sanest from my pov | 15:46 |
| dos1 | but that does not take the amount of work needed for that into consideration | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | csd does a lot of high level protocol heavy lifting | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IOW much of the every day phone stack stability of maemo is from csd | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I _think_ we might go for a fake libisi _first_, then in step two of this enterprise create a much more ambitioned project that#s aiming at replacing csd by fso | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm open to discussions on that | 15:49 |
| jonwil | Basically we have several theoretical options (some of which are probably not possible): | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 15:50 |
| jonwil | If we ignore the options that we cant do (i.e. using the same cellular chip set and firmware as Nokia) the options we do have are: | 15:51 |
| jonwil | 1.Replace the kernel bits that talk to the cellular modem with something that exposes the same interface to userspace but which takes the N900-format cellmo data packets and converts them into whatever the cellmo we use is expecting | 15:52 |
| jonwil | 2.Same as #1 but replacing libisi (low level library that talks to kernel and takes in data packets from next level up) | 15:53 |
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| jonwil | Problems with #1 and #2 are all the isi data packets where no documentation exists (or where we only have a .h file with no info on what it actually means) | 15:54 |
| dos1 | for me, we can forget about #1, which imo is basically #2 done in the wrong place :P | 15:55 |
| jonwil | yeah we can :) | 15:55 |
| jonwil | Option #3 is to forget about isi, reverse engineer the cellular services daemon and replace it with something that talks the same dbus (and other) interfaces to the next bits up but does things differently further down | 15:55 |
| jonwil | Option #4 is to identify the things that have dependencies on the cellular services daemon and rewrite them so they do things differently (e.g. replacing libicd-network-gprs with something that is functionally identical except that it talks to whatever GPRS interface is exposed by FSO rather than to what is exposed by the csd-gprs plugin) | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: I don't agree about wrong place. I completely agree about "forget it, can't be done" | 15:57 |
| FatPhil | so do I need to install a new kernel or anything? | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for thumb? | 15:58 |
| jonwil | Option #5 is a combination of #3 and #4 | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or on Neo900? | 15:58 |
| dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: AT interpreter in kernel wouldn't be out of place? that would in fact transform into in-kernel fsogsmd with isi api instead of dbus | 15:59 |
| FatPhil | DocScrutinizer05: for thumb, yes | 15:59 |
| jonwil | i.e. we identify all the bits of the system that are dependent on CSD and its plugins and depending on that we either replace it with something that talks to FSO (e.g. for the widget that displays cellular signal level we can replace with something that talks to existing FSO interface for signal level) | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you need thumb-enabled kernel and you're probably in trouble already if you don't have it installed | 15:59 |
| jonwil | or we implement the interfaces that are required for that blob inside FSOGSMD | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can flash thumb kernel, but you can't install the modules needed if you don't have already and your device blows up during boot | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or at least it's for sure not easy to install those modules when the system blows chunks | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: there are ways to expose a phonet device but do the conversion to AT in userland | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I guess it would be a nightmare | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since you not only need an AT interpreter but also a comprehensive ISI interpreter | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't know if it would be easier to accomplish than replacing libisi with something that doesn't talk to phonet device but exposes similar compatible API to next upper layer | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my general stategy would be: start as low as possible, evaluate feasibility. If not possible to get done, go up one layer and redo evaluation. | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | layer 0: phonet device. layer 1: libisi API | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | layer 2: probably csd replacement | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | layer 2.5: dbus translator/bridge to csd | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | layer 3: apps? | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | layer 3 == jonwil's option #4 | 16:08 |
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| jonwil | thinking some more about closed bits on the N900, GPS shouldn't be an issue since we can use whatever open code exists for the GPS solution that ends up in the Neo900 and build a binary-interface-compatible replacement for liblocation (the library that all the userspace stuff uses to actually talk to the GPS) | 16:39 |
| jonwil | liblocation has a full dev and doc package which would help | 16:39 |
| dos1 | what handles supl server on maemo? | 16:44 |
| jonwil | location-proxy does it I believe | 16:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds good | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we#ll most likely use the GPS that comes with Option 601/801 modem | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | saves us some chips and thus some money and particularly PCB real estate | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure a "free" GPS would be nicer, but sometimes you have to make compromises | 16:53 |
| jonwil | Is there any discussion of Neo900 other than the TMO thread? | 16:53 |
| jonwil | I would like to know the best place to throw some thoughts on what to do with different binary blobs | 16:53 |
| jonwil | one thing we definatly dont need to care about anymore is BME | 16:54 |
| jonwil | since last I checked, someone had replaced all the bits of BME that actually mattered | 16:55 |
| Pali | yes, bme is not needed | 16:55 |
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| jon_y | is it possible to ship with selinux enabled with the new kernel? permissive of course :) | 16:56 |
| jonwil | so is there anywhere better to discuss Neo900 than the TMO thread? | 16:57 |
| jonwil | or is the TMO thread the best place for my thoughts? | 16:57 |
| jon_y | some real security on a phone is nice to play with | 16:58 |
| jon_y | though I don't expect it to go into enforced mode | 16:58 |
| LaoLang_cool | oh, neo900? | 16:58 |
| jon_y | *mandatory mode, not like the n9 | 16:58 |
| jon_y | LaoLang_cool: pali is working on 3.x kernel | 16:59 |
| LaoLang_cool | wow! | 16:59 |
| LaoLang_cool | cool! | 16:59 |
| * jon_y wishes to play with selinux on a phone | 16:59 | |
| jonwil | I will take the lack of response to mean that the TMO thread is the best place to discuss Neo900 | 16:59 |
| LaoLang_cool | it would be slow on n900 I guess | 16:59 |
| LaoLang_cool | poor hw of n900.... | 16:59 |
| jon_y | well, it is set to permissible | 17:00 |
| jon_y | so, play with it if you want | 17:00 |
| jon_y | it has no effect otherwise | 17:00 |
| dos1 | jonwil: TMO thread, this channel and #maemo | 17:00 |
| jonwil | ok | 17:00 |
| dos1 | jonwil: that's it for now; some other places probably will come later | 17:00 |
| jonwil | I will post my thoughts on what to do with the blobs in the TMO thread | 17:00 |
| jonwil | then we can discuss it in IRC :) | 17:01 |
| dos1 | ok | 17:01 |
| dos1 | sounds good ;) | 17:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: probably creating a new thread for this discussion is best | 17:47 |
| jonwil | ok | 17:47 |
| jonwil | makes sense | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | linking to new thread from http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1372678&postcount=340 | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I planned to do that since some days already, didn't get around to it | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: I'll kick off the thread, you can join in and link to it by editing that post of yours | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok? | 17:51 |
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| jonwil | ok | 18:00 |
| jonwil | btw, is the plan to use same wifi and BT as N900 or to use something different (i.e. whatever GTA04 already has)? | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1372709 | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: we won't be able to source the wl1251 I guess, and even if we could, it's not really free. I think we got nicer alternatives for wlan | 18:09 |
| jonwil | ok, thats what I thought | 18:10 |
| kerio | is there a wlan chip that doesn't require a binary blob? | 18:10 |
| jonwil | the actual wlan/bt chips being used are disconnected enough from the rest of the system that its not an issue for us | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but the rest of the chip can either be well documented or not at all documented | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't know if there are even open firmwares for some chips | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some chips don't need firmware upload each time you start them, since they got flash storage for "the blob" | 18:12 |
| kerio | mh, i suppose that that's the same, reall | 18:13 |
| kerio | y | 18:13 |
| kerio | i was thinking of completely open chips | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-09-07 17:11:39] <DocScrutinizer05> I don't know if there are even open firmwares for some chips | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc some guys worked on a hardmac for Prism-II | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeeears ago | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even the website vanished meanwhile | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prism-II or prism-54 | 18:18 |
| dos1 | kerio: well, RMS is fine with device with unchangable non-free blob in its internal storage, but he's not fine with device to which you have to upload non-free blob | 18:21 |
| Pali | kerio: atheros chips have open also firmware | 18:22 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: ^ (some) atheros are open | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that RMS is any relevant to me or Neo900 here | 18:23 |
| dos1 | right, just pointing out that he sees some difference there | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my take on that is: any blob you upload to a chip is initialization data, and thus not a subject to FOSS and openness of the system | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: I think RMS doesn't ,ake sense in that respect | 18:25 |
| dos1 | yeah, I agree with you | 18:25 |
| dos1 | for me uploadable blob can be even better, as you can play with it, RE and send your own one instead | 18:26 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the "issue" is that you're sending something that you don't really understand | 18:26 |
| kerio | instead of a well-understood "initialize dat shit" command | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you do that all the time | 18:26 |
| kerio | when dealing with closed hardware | 18:27 |
| kerio | and you don't do that if you don't need to upload a firmware | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even when dealing with open hardware | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see a difference between "write 0x34af2900 to rgister 4 for enabling XY mode" and "write those 4000bytes to register 9 for enabling wlan engine" | 18:28 |
| kerio | mh | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you NEVER have complete insight into what you're really doing, when dealing with peripheral hardware | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless the peripheral *hardware* is documented down to the last resistor | 18:30 |
| jonwil | only 180 packages left to sort for my post | 18:31 |
| dos1 | OT: just removed pulseaudio from my laptop once again | 18:31 |
| dos1 | is this shit ever going to work properly? | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in fact RMS only speculates that the blob must be some sort of software, and thus his claim that we shall have the source for that | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | thinking too much about that will leave you trapped in a catch22 | 18:33 |
| jon_y | well, you can't fault him for trying to look out for us lowly drones | 18:33 |
| jon_y | more freedone the better | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure. But "we don't believe in Kings and Gods" | 18:34 |
| jon_y | ? | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RMS has a notion, that's fine. And often his notion is valuable and quite to the point. sometimes not. anyway it's not an commandment for me | 18:35 |
| dos1 | he always was and is taking his opinions to extremes, so listening to him literally probably is not the wisest thing to do | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 18:35 |
| dos1 | but he's still almost always pointing at least at right direction | 18:36 |
| jon_y | agreed | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 18:37 |
| dos1 | so I see him as a perfect source of some "food for thought" | 18:37 |
| jon_y | he's the closest thing to a pope that I have :) | 18:38 |
| jon_y | certainly influential, but no absolute say | 18:39 |
| dos1 | pope of the church of emacs ;) | 18:39 |
| jonwil | church of GNU more like :P | 18:40 |
| jon_y | yeah, more likely GNU | 18:40 |
| dos1 | so st Ignucius then :) | 18:41 |
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| jon_y | he needs a college of Cardinals too, for in case he bites the dust too soon | 18:43 |
| jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1372720&posted=1#post1372720 | 19:01 |
| freemangordon_ | Pali: yep, it seems to be fixed, will upload the source in my repo in a couple of minutes | 19:03 |
| Pali | ok | 19:03 |
| freemangordon_ | FatPhil: if you installed cssu-thumb, you already have the needed kernel | 19:03 |
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| jonwil | the list covers packages I think we can drop (either due to hardware changes or just stuff we dont need or care about), packages we have actual code (or useable replacements) for, packages we can probably use as-is without change and then various packages we need to make decisions on | 19:04 |
| jonwil | i.e. drop, clone, modify, replace, re-use-as-is, whatever | 19:04 |
| Pali | jonwil: I updated closed packages wiki page, so all working are now green | 19:05 |
| FatPhil | freemangordon: are there n900-based build tools? (yes, it takes 2 hours to build the kernel, this I already know) | 19:07 |
| jonwil | so yeah feel free to comment on my list and get discussion going on where we need to focus efforts re cloning things/reverse engineering things/whatever :) | 19:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | jonwil: your TMO post is lacking in [code] boxes or some sorta formatting ;) | 19:14 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: afaik yes, but I've never tried it | 19:21 |
| jonwil | no-one has any useful comments on my list? | 19:22 |
| jonwil | the Cellular Services Daemon certainly looks like the biggest missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle that needs solving | 19:24 |
| jonwil | its by far the biggest undocumented piece of maemo | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: there are probably a truckload of comments to your list. I already posted | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think you can't handle all the possible comments on a single thread in tmo | 19:28 |
| jonwil | ok | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we should find out about hierarchy of the libs related to CSD | 19:29 |
| jonwil | I already know heirerchy | 19:29 |
| jonwil | libisi and libisi-glib live at the bottom | 19:30 |
| jonwil | then libraries like libsms0 sit on top of libisi | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there must be some sort of hierarchy, like "all other libs base on libisi.so either directly or via other libs" | 19:30 |
| jonwil | then the CSD plugins sit on top of those libs | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we need to document this | 19:30 |
| jonwil | everything that the CSD plugins do ultimately does end up in libisi | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus my suggestion to port it to a wiki | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry folks, RL calling | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bbl | 19:31 |
| jonwil | ok | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh, and welcome on board of FPTF, jonwil :-) | 19:32 |
| jonwil | FPTF? | 19:33 |
| dos1 | Fremantle Porting Task Force :) | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Fremantle Porting Task Force | 19:33 |
| jonwil | :) | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you did a nice and bold introduction | 19:34 |
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| jonwil | I think my #1 maemo wish would be to have the docs and details of all the dbus interfaces that are exposed by the cellular services daemon with #2 being some dev packages for a few libraries like libconnui and libconnui-cellular and a couple others :) | 19:34 |
| jonwil | The good news is that we DO have docs for both the csd-gprs plugin and the csd-net plugin | 19:35 |
| dos1 | where? | 19:37 |
| dos1 | oh, googled - in package itself :) | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | needs all to go onto that wiki page! | 19:38 |
| jonwil | What we dont have is any docs at all for the csd-call, csd-info, csd-sim, csd-simpb, csd-sms or csd-ss plugins (except for what little has been figured out via reverse engineering or pulled from open pieces of code like bluetooth stack) | 19:45 |
| jonwil | bluez in particular was nice for figuring out a few things :) | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, we can figure a lot of what they do. simpb==SIM phonebook access, ss==supplementary-services, info is a tad obscure. All probably have top end d-bus IF, and bottom end lib-xy (whatever libisi.so or anything similar) | 19:49 |
| jonwil | yeah we can figure out in broad terms what they do | 19:50 |
| jonwil | but we need to know what the various dbus interfaces they expose do | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the state machines inside those is what we would need to re-create | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not exactly trivila to send or receive a sms | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for example | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | trivial* | 19:51 |
| jonwil | well ofono/fsogsmd presumably already does SMS sending, we would just need to make it expose the same interface as csd-sms (for example) | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sned sms PDU, wait for response, handle error response, handle OK response, handle receipt notification, handle unsolicited interleaved responses | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup, basically that's it | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | handle all that configuration SMs et al cruft | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure FSO (and ofono) are supposed to already know how to handle all this | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FSO even works on d-bus, just like CSD does | 19:56 |
| dos1 | I'd be willing to work on recreating those APIs based on FSO | 19:56 |
| dos1 | if we go that way | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I still prefer looking into libisi and what are the methods exposed on it's API upside interface | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only ONE blob to RE | 19:57 |
| jonwil | replacing libisi wont help, we would still need to understand all the undocumented n900 cellmo packets that get sent down from above | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | everybody talking to libisi "modem do this, modem do that". We should be able to translate to another slang | 19:58 |
| jonwil | libisi is just transport library | 19:58 |
| jonwil | so stuff says to libisi, "connect to modem interface xyz" | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | umpf, then scrap that idea | 19:58 |
| jonwil | or "send this packet to isi" | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think suddenly replacing CSD by FSO looks _much_ more applealing than it did to me 10 min ago | 19:59 |
| dos1 | damn it | 19:59 |
| dos1 | is there some easy way to power N900 without usb and battery? :P | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, nope, not really | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you got a lab power supply | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or other *stabilaized* 4.0V power source | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ bbl | 20:02 |
| dos1 | or maybe would soldering loose cables to usb pins be easier than soldering whole socket? :P | 20:04 |
| kerio | buy something that can charge a bl-5j | 20:04 |
| dos1 | I'm total noob in this regard, but I'd like to have N900 running even in "stationary mode" | 20:05 |
| dos1 | kerio: with my luck and laziness I suspect that scenario when I'll find some time for playing with it I'll find out that battery is flat will happen often :P | 20:06 |
| dos1 | but maybe with second battery it wouldn't be a problem... | 20:06 |
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| FatPhil | The funny thing is that I love my n900, but I haven't done this whole app-installing frenzy that everyone else has done, it's unchanged in about 4 years. I'm now making loads of new discoveries, and I'm liking what I see! | 20:23 |
| dos1 | yay, Nokia 5800 with broken screen for ~7 EUR together with shipping | 20:24 |
| dos1 | smells like good BL-5J charger :) | 20:24 |
| freemangordon | FatPhil: I wonder why (you did not update your device with CSSU and new applications) | 20:25 |
| FatPhil | I got used to the device that I was working on. Never installed stuff as I knew I'd be reflashing it the next day! | 20:26 |
| FatPhil | my g/f's put more stuff on hers. | 20:28 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/freemangordons-ke-recv-extra/source/24307e38817e801f91cbd2165c3c08d618b0edab: | 20:30 |
| freemangordon | OMG, 4 years after the lat update | 20:31 |
| freemangordon | *last | 20:31 |
| freemangordon | Pali: did not test on 2.6.28, won't be surprised if something doesn't work | 20:31 |
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| _ade_ | freemangordon: any idea why all the timezone files are put in the libc6 packages on Maemo? | 21:00 |
| _ade_ | freemangordon: makes updating them in a proper way less convenient | 21:00 |
| freemangordon | _ade_: NFC, better ask aapo, he did a lot of libc stuff | 21:00 |
| _ade_ | freemangordon: I guess most distros have a separate package for that. Nokia must have had it's reasons | 21:02 |
| _ade_ | freemangordon: any news on the RE-ing? :) | 21:04 |
| freemangordon | _ade_: yes, but all of them are bad. It seems I have to spent a month or more on that just to implements an enhancement and to fix a bug which hits once a year. I don't think this is justified, sorry | 21:05 |
| freemangordon | _ade_: unfortunately I spend the time I planned to re that closed blob on fixing supl.nokia :( | 21:06 |
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| _ade_ | freemangordon: that was no RE job in the end. Too bad it can't be done easily. But you should make your own choices anyway, you are not on my payroll :) | 21:10 |
| freemangordon | _ade_: it was not RE job, but this doesn;t mean it was easy :) | 21:11 |
| freemangordon | _ade_: keep in mind there will be lots of REing to happen in regard to Neo900 | 21:11 |
| freemangordon | Pali: hmm, seems hulda works on 2.6.28 too, at least no visible signs of something got broken because of my changes | 21:13 |
| Pali | freemangordon: ok | 21:13 |
| freemangordon | Pali: going to pu it in cssu-devel | 21:13 |
| Pali | ok | 21:13 |
| freemangordon | Pali: in the repo, feel free to upgrade | 21:16 |
| jonwil | freemangordon: What exactly do you want to RE? | 21:16 |
| Pali | jonwil: that hildon library | 21:16 |
| _ade_ | freemangordon: yeah, I saw the components list of Jonwil on TMO. We need more manpower for that I guess. | 21:16 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: :nod: | 21:16 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: just a second to tell you the name | 21:16 |
| jonwil | why do you want to reverse engineer the hildon library for? | 21:16 |
| jonwil | hildon-plugins-notify-sv I think it is | 21:17 |
| freemangordon | because it has a bug which sometimes leads to hildon-home being locked with alarm sound playing | 21:17 |
| freemangordon | and it ignores custom alarm sounds | 21:17 |
| Pali | that bug is really anoying... | 21:18 |
| Pali | sometimes I'm not able to stop alarm clock | 21:18 |
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| jonwil | that library has an x86 version, if I had more skills in the libraries its using (libsoundfile, libprofile, libplayback, pulseaudio, gconf, glib, dbus) I might be able to RE it | 21:21 |
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| jonwil | What surprises me is that Nokia went out of their way to do extra bits so they could keep that library closed. I wonder just what that library is doing that Nokia considered important or sensitive | 21:22 |
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| freemangordon | jonwil: yeah, it has x86 version, I did some stuff and can hand you .idb file along with 2 source files if you wish | 21:22 |
| dos1 | spying! :D | 21:23 |
| jonwil | yeah that would be nice :) | 21:23 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: it is not that complicated, just that the binary is of vkbrender size and I still remember what it took me to RE vkbrenderer :D | 21:23 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: ok | 21:24 |
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| Pali | every systemui package is closed because that SW is nokia legacy and comes from first maemo version on nokia 770 | 21:29 |
| Pali | only some few dbus headers was opened (where dbus-monitor told you everything needed) | 21:30 |
| freemangordon | Pali: systemui is easy | 21:30 |
| freemangordon | I can RE a plugin per day while I am having my morning coffee :D | 21:31 |
| Pali | :D | 21:31 |
| freemangordon | maybe the daemon itself could take me a bit more | 21:31 |
| Pali | freemangordon, btw in powerbutton plugin you do not using value which comes from dbus open/close function | 21:32 |
| freemangordon | Pali: so? | 21:32 |
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| freemangordon | or rather - should I? | 21:32 |
| Pali | I'm trying to find out what original powerbutton plugin doing with it | 21:32 |
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| Pali | value is DBUS_TYPE_UINT32 and is either MODE_FLIGHT or MODE_NORMAL (depending on selected mode) | 21:33 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: which argument is that? | 21:36 |
| Pali | first argument for open method (also close) | 21:37 |
| freemangordon | Pali: of open/close callbacks? | 21:37 |
| Pali | yes | 21:37 |
| freemangordon | no :) | 21:37 |
| freemangordon | open_handler(const char *interface, const char *method, GArray *args, system_ui_data *data, system_ui_handler_arg *out) | 21:37 |
| Pali | I mean first dbus argument of open method | 21:38 |
| freemangordon | oh :) | 21:38 |
| Pali | SYSTEMUI_POWERKEYMENU_OPEN_REQ | 21:38 |
| freemangordon | Pali: I don;t thin systemui cares about flight/normal mode | 21:39 |
| freemangordon | power key plugin that is | 21:40 |
| freemangordon | Pali: it just passes args to check_plugin_arguments(), but before the call R@ contents is destroyed ( MOV R2, #1) | 21:42 |
| freemangordon | I do the same | 21:42 |
| freemangordon | s/R@/R2 | 21:43 |
| _ade_ | freemangordon: in cssu perspective, how important is it that timezones and summer/wintertime changes are up to date? | 21:43 |
| Pali | tryint to decode it, I see that it checking signature of first argument | 21:43 |
| Pali | but it really only checking dbus singature and dropping value? | 21:43 |
| freemangordon | _ade_: I guess on par with certificates or slightly lower priority | 21:43 |
| freemangordon | Pali: it drops the whole args parameter | 21:44 |
| freemangordon | Pali: yeah, it only checks if the args is what the plugin expects | 21:44 |
| freemangordon | see disasm I posted | 21:44 |
| _ade_ | freemangordon: any plans in that direction? It is "only" a matter of updating the freely available timezone files | 21:45 |
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| freemangordon | _ade_: I don;t have plans, feel free to patch libc (once it finally enters cssu :) ) | 21:46 |
| _ade_ | freemangordon: I rather not touch such an important package. That's why I asked about it. Could it split in an easy and safe way, or is that a nogo? | 21:52 |
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| Fat_Phil | any idea why my custom xkb configuratio for shell-obsessives works in the shell, but not in this irc client? | 23:18 |
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| Fat_Phil | works in every app apart from this client apparently. | 23:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | FatPhil: [2013-09-07 22:33:31] <-- Fat_Phil has left this server (Remote host closed the connection). | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas my client doesn't show re-joins | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for your client I either need a DCC VERION request, or you disclose delibaerately what you're using ;-) | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WTF? | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why does *my* client still expand the nick, even when the user is gone? | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ugh, no "_" | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-09-07 22:40:32] [CTCP] Received CTCP-VERSION reply from FatPhil: irssi v0.8.12. | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so, NFC | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should be plain shell | 23:40 |
| FlatPhil | the client that didn't let me do {}%|`<>[] from the hw keybd was calles "communi" | 23:51 |
| FlatPhil | oh, not forgetting ~ | 23:51 |
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| FlatPhil | my g/f's put many of them on the toolbar for the x terminal, but I prefer them to be universal. hate the popup onscreen keyboard. | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources FWIW | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | try to find out about VI_s awesome keymapping. It's burried deeeeeep inside the bot's factoids | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues vi_ | 23:57 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'vi_' by value returned no results. | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~fu | 23:57 |
| infobot | FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU- | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dice 100d20 | 23:58 |
| infobot | rolled 2,19,14,18,11,12,18,9,16,14,18,2,4,9,7,7,3,7,5,18,6,4,8,16,19,20,19,17,19,8,14,19,1,18,13,1,9,19,1,15,15,11,5,14,20,20,3,9,14,16,11,3,14,6,4,14,7,18,12,2,20,15,14,5,11,16,7,18,11,12,18,18,11,19,5,17,18,4,9,15,7,4,2,19,20,16,2,5,3,11,8,9,9,1,9,4,18,10,16,7 = 1120 | 23:58 |
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