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| Sicelo | HAM can choose between versions? | 00:14 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | distribution section? | 00:23 |
| * Sicelo fires up HAM after a loooong time | 00:26 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ham can choose between packages. packages in turn can provide identical capabilities and they afaik also can conflict with each other | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but, for example mediaplayer: simply remove mediaplayer from mp-fremantle-pr metapackage and all of a sudden you're free to uninstall or replace it | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | make it provide "play-media" and mp-fremantle-pr resp mp-community-pr pulls in the capability "play-media" and you're free to install any alternative that also provides "play-media" and thus uninstalls the stock media player | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for this to work you need a ultrthin wrapper around the stock media player, a metapackage called nokia-mediaplayer that simply provides capability "play-media" and depends on stock mediaplayer | 02:18 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we can just "update" the stock mediaplayer in our repo | 07:16 |
| kerio | don't we have permission to redistribute (c)Nokia packages? | 07:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, we have | 09:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we don't have control over the nokia repos though, afaik | 09:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we probably could repackage and ship via CSSU repo the stock player | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but just for handling the dependencies that feels like overkill. Maybe because I had no coffee yet | 09:34 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: "just for handling the dependencies" | 09:40 |
| kerio | which is about 100% of what repo maintainership is about | 09:40 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: another good thing to do would be to rerelease packages with fixed dependencies | 10:45 |
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| Pali | TADA: It looks like we know what causing PA problems on some n900 devices | 11:05 |
| Pali | patch which adding nokia PA compatilbity with normal PA. | 11:05 |
| Pali | cssu testers, look: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1362206#post1362206 | 11:06 |
| kerio | :o | 11:06 |
| Pali | now need to understand why it is problem only on some n900 devices | 11:07 |
| Pali | and need to find another solution for compatibility with upstream non-nokia-hacked PA | 11:07 |
| kerio | Pali: this reminds me | 11:07 |
| kerio | often, when i plug the charger in, i get the message regarding the current not being sufficient to charge | 11:08 |
| kerio | but it actually is | 11:08 |
| Pali | kerio: update hald-addon-bme to last version | 11:08 |
| kerio | and the charge goes normally | 11:08 |
| Pali | and update also battery plugin | 11:08 |
| kerio | k | 11:08 |
| kerio | not now tho, i'm on the bus | 11:08 |
| Pali | I pushed more patches to both | 11:08 |
| kerio | with no recent backups | 11:09 |
| kerio | yay | 11:09 |
| kerio | i liek patches | 11:09 |
| Pali | battery applet is in cssu-devel | 11:09 |
| kerio | it's just an ui issue, yes? | 11:09 |
| Pali | no only | 11:09 |
| Pali | also in hald-addon-bme was some problems | 11:09 |
| kerio | oh, k | 11:09 |
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| kerio | alright | 11:10 |
| Pali | because bq27200 chip do not report battery charging immediately, I added small hack to force hald-addon-bme to report battery charging for 10s after charger cable is attached | 11:11 |
| Pali | 10s should be enought time to report if charger is can really charge battery or not | 11:11 |
| kerio | Pali: do you reckon that it's possible to add a gconf key to force a certain value for the battery capacity? | 11:11 |
| Pali | there are no gconf keys for hald-addon-bme yet... | 11:12 |
| kerio | oh, is it just the battery applet? | 11:12 |
| kerio | it would still work | 11:12 |
| Pali | yes, only battery applet has gconf key for using design capacity or not | 11:12 |
| Pali | nothing more | 11:13 |
| kerio | something like "override_battery_capacity" | 11:13 |
| kerio | an int, when present and different from -1 should override other sources of battery capacity | 11:13 |
| kerio | in mAh, i suppose | 11:13 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why do we measure battery capacity in mAh and not in coulombs? | 11:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because nobody knows how to spell Coulomb | 11:49 |
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| kerio | lol | 15:51 |
| kerio | i mean, 1 C = 0.2(7)mAh | 15:52 |
| kerio | so you'd just have to divide things by 3 | 15:52 |
| kerio | pretty much | 15:52 |
| kerio | by 3.6, in fact | 15:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | if you consider better units, then use Joule alias Ws | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since THAT owuld really be an improvement over that basically fundamentally flawed resp meaningless mAh that don't consider the VOLTAGE which will change during discharge | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/ow(wo/ | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw 1C=1As | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | =1000mAs = 1000/3600mAh | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not even Physicians use Coulomb | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw if you wonder: the unit of that 3600 above is h/s | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err s/h | 18:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | = 60m/h * 60s/m | 18:39 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | So the key is breaking up as much of the mammoth metapackage as possible. How easy is this to implement? | 19:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | As for units of energy.... | 19:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | joules are generally not used and coulombs are a larger number, Ah was invented as a lazy shorthand. | 19:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | not used for batteries as a unit of measure anyway | 19:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | 1A over 60 seconds is 60 coulombs, therefore in an hour 3600 coulombs have been used. | 19:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Joules or watt-seconds would be the accurate measure I agree, but it seems mAs/mAh/Ah are deemed accurate enough for us and easier to caluculate. | 19:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (MP) pretty easy | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (easier to..) measure. bq27200 though has also Ws iirc | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for system energy consumption (aka power) it's a simple conversion from A to W, since voltage is stabilized and known. The whole point is with battery, where you convert to those stabilized system voltages via a step-converter (not an LDO). Such step converter qould e.g eat 350mA@4.2V battery, or 420mA@3.5V, for feeding the identical system load | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so obviously mAh is a bit nonsensical in that case. mWh though was way nicer since the mW figure is constant for 350*4.2 and 420*3.5 | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 0x23 - 0x22: 3021 SAE Available Energy High - Low Byte (from bq27k-detail2) | 20:03 |
| sixwheeledbeast | IC. So is there a plan to take a pickaxe to mp soon? | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I always push that but for unclear (to me) reasons the chief maintainers are reluctant | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, as soon as you nuke MP completely, you need to make sure *all* your inter-package dependencies are comprehensive, complete and correct | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it seems most devels are lazy to take care about that detail of their package | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and THAT part is not as easy, for the distro maintainers. Particularly when it's needed for dozens or hundreds of packages | 20:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I suppose it's a minefield of a job, but when done would provide huge flexibility. We need to look at this method of replacing these pkgs for FOSS alternatives. They have benefits and will be welcomed by the community. Having stock and FOSS-alt side-by-side is a pointless waste, other than for testing purposes. | 20:24 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why don't we use mWhs then? | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | side by side? you mean concurrently installed? nah, that's actually pointless | 20:50 |
| kerio | why don't we just make nicocam lighter so it doesn't have to be preloaded? | 20:52 |
| sixwheeledbeast | "side by side" as in both stock and FOSS-alt installed at same time. Like we have now for OMP etc... | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's an alternative for some apps, while it's a nogo for others | 20:56 |
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