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| int_ua | freemangordon: no, I'll better ping here, not there :) | 02:18 |
|---|---|---|
| int_ua | My second N900 just died (softwarely) after my father who uses it pulled off microSD card and battery while it was switching off. Just booted into ubuntu, checking it. | 02:20 |
| int_ua | uboot just doesn't show power kernel and doesn't boot with the attached one | 02:22 |
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| kerio | hm, pali's thing didn't show "charging complete" at the end | 08:25 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: bme's "charge complete" thing is fake, right? | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I monitored/observed it several times: it takes 30..90min longer than charge-complete for bq24150 to actually stop charging | 08:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (if it ever stops charging - with e.g. screen light on it doesn't) | 08:28 |
| kerio | i hope it's not damaging the battery | 08:29 |
| kerio | maybe stopping charge altogether until the battery is below 95% or something is better | 08:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what bq24150 does | 08:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it detects charge-end current tripped | 08:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also see fine batteryfaq paul ferster and me prepared for you | 08:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~batteryfaq | 08:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 08:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~batteryfaq | 08:40 |
| infobot | from memory, batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers | 08:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: can you check when infobot left chan? | 08:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nm, found it in chanlog | 08:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: long story short - Openmoko EE got told from cell manuf (hitachi?) that keeping battery floating at charging end level will cause cell damage. | 08:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bq24150 seems to think alike, and stops charging when charging current drops under a certain threshold. If configured correctly, bq24150 restarts charging when battery voltage has dropped to a certain level which is maybe equivalent to ~85% of charge | 08:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas with system drawing a considerable amount of power, the charging current will never drop under that threshold | 08:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plus bme also jumping up and messing up things: on my t900 (KP46) bme restarts charging every 240s iirc. duration is like 30s. I gather bme restarts charging and bq24150 end it on detecting end-of-charge current threshold tripped | 08:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (only when device idle and locked aka screen blanked) | 08:57 |
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| ShadowJK | charger, charge meter, and bme, all have different methods and thresholds for what is full | 15:30 |
| ShadowJK | also bme itself does fuel gauge metering (with a twist) mostly independently of "battery full" detection :) | 15:32 |
| Pali | anybody who can help me with GIO? | 15:41 |
| Pali | g_io_channel_new_file | 15:41 |
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| Pali | ok, problem with gio solved | 17:27 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: who should we trust? i vote we trust bq24150 | 17:49 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: otoh 85% kinda sucks :( | 17:49 |
| kerio | Pali: btw, your thing works perfectly :) | 17:57 |
| kerio | does anything *require* bme to start, during boot? | 17:57 |
| Pali | yes | 17:57 |
| Pali | I do not remember, but something like dsme... | 17:57 |
| kerio | Pali: btw, how does bq2415x-charger deal with charge termination? | 18:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: 85% seems what the designers evaluated as best value | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | actually they use a voltage level which incidentally corellates to roughly 85percent on our cell | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'd have to check if bq24150 allows config of that voltage level or if it's hardcoded | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: you're free to do what bme does and force bq24150 into charge mode every 240s | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or maybe every 600s | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | or you live with it and get used to replugging USB 90min before you unplug and leave house. As replugging also restarts charging | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | look, there are contradicting goals: either treat battery as gently as possible or get a max charged battery at all times possible | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if you keep backlight on you get 2nd behaviour since current never trips charge end threshold | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | with backlight off bq will eventually top charging | 18:36 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer51: my laptop can keep the battery at 100% :( | 18:49 |
| kerio | modulo laws of thermodynamics ofc | 18:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so what?` reread my very last post, 2 resp 3 lines above this one | 18:52 |
| kerio | it doesn't destroy the battery! | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't even run from battery when plugged to PSU | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is plain impossible for a phone though | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since modem might eat up to >4A surges | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nothing else but battery can handle that | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why it basically runs from battery all time | 18:54 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hm, how quick is the handoff from PSU to battery? | 18:55 |
| kerio | it doesn't seem to cause problems | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and plugging it to PSU just means battery gets charged | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: eh? please rephrase, as there's no such thing | 18:55 |
| kerio | you said that once the battery is charged, the laptop runs straight from the PSU | 18:56 |
| kerio | so how can i unplug the PSU and not get a powercycle due to a "brownout"? | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I said it rns from PSU as long as there is any PSU | 18:56 |
| kerio | i mean, it's really quick | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because electric current is fast as lightning (literally) | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and there are migic little things called diodes | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | magic* | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and other stuff that isn't suited for a phone with an intended 14 days of standby | 18:58 |
| kerio | :( | 18:58 |
| kerio | but my laptop used to get 8 hours! | 18:58 |
| kerio | that's close to 14 days | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? you'd kill Elop with a flying N900 if it couldn't ever get beyond 8h battery life | 18:59 |
| kerio | heh | 18:59 |
| kerio | why elop? it wouldn't be his fault | 18:59 |
| kerio | wtf is time_to_empty_avg? | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | time to empty battery on average power consumption as avaraged during last few minutes | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or seconds | 19:00 |
| kerio | TTE now claims i'm getting a bit more than 15 days of standby right now | 19:00 |
| kerio | TTE avg is 13 | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm too tired for your trolling | 19:01 |
| kerio | haha now TTE avg is 66 | 19:01 |
| kerio | hrmpf, where's pali | 19:01 |
| kerio | 206940 is *not* a sensible value for time_to_empty_avg | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~207000/60 | 19:03 |
| infobot | 3450 | 19:03 |
| kerio | it's either 2 days or 140 days | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, 0.3mA | 19:03 |
| kerio | i'm using about 12mA now, so it could be in seconds | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 19:03 |
| kerio | it's no biggie, i'll just charge it overnight | 19:04 |
| kerio | but i never saw those 14 days of standby | 19:04 |
| kerio | ...maybe because i can't resist using it | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course not, since active times will come, while just you watched an idle time | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the values are of last 5s | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no matter if you read every 5s or once a min | 19:05 |
| kerio | ah fucking whatsapp | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually the ONLY really reliable values of bq24150 are voltages | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly EDV1 and EDVF | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and as it happens those are exactly the two most important thresholds for system to take action and warn resp shut down NOW | 19:09 |
| kerio | i thought bq27200 was really good | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it *usually* is | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you understand what those values realy mean | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | TTE is "**IF** your system would continue eating exactly as much power as during last 5s, it would drain battery in X minutes" | 19:11 |
| kerio | shutting down yappari made the TTE twice as long :D | 19:12 |
| kerio | i should probably shut down wifi too | 19:12 |
| kerio | and switch to 2G | 19:12 |
| kerio | i'm just kinda worried that, in 2G, it'll keep looking for my home network | 19:13 |
| kerio | (i have to go roaming in 2G) | 19:13 |
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| ShadowJK | There's a different value for time to empty in standby, STTE | 19:57 |
| ShadowJK | also a MLTTE, max load time to empty :) | 19:59 |
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| kerio | wtf is max load? | 20:04 |
| kerio | Pali: also the version check is *really* annoying! :'( | 20:05 |
| Pali | which version check? | 20:05 |
| Pali | where? | 20:05 |
| kerio | Pali: in the battery applet | 20:05 |
| kerio | you said it checks bme's dpkg version | 20:06 |
| Pali | and what is problem? | 20:06 |
| Pali | it is not working? | 20:06 |
| kerio | it's slow! :( | 20:06 |
| Pali | what? slow? speed of hildon-status-menu starting starting is same | 20:06 |
| kerio | it's really not | 20:07 |
| kerio | it visibly hangs, here | 20:07 |
| Pali | if not, then write program for testing... | 20:07 |
| Pali | try it on more n900 and show results | 20:07 |
| kerio | Pali: what do you need the version for, anyway? | 20:07 |
| kerio | hah, yeah right | 20:07 |
| kerio | ...to be fair it would mean i'd have more n900s... | 20:08 |
| Pali | I need to know if new version of hald-addon-bme is started or not | 20:08 |
| Pali | new is that from bme replacement project | 20:08 |
| kerio | hold on, i'm testing it | 20:08 |
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| ShadowJK | Heh, reading anandtech's article on intel's new enterprisey ssd | 21:27 |
| ShadowJK | intel's new method for mapping data is almost exactly the algorithm I thought up a couple years ago :p | 21:27 |
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