| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer06, this looks like good place to show support for not agreeing to "unfriendly takeover". It's also thread when discussion about migrating infra is happening | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| Estel_ | it isn't obvious from first sight, but it's also about giving keys. | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | (aka sysadmin thing) | 00:02 |
| Estel_ | also, notice date of my last post, and fact that no one feel that it's necessary to answer - both from Council, and from rest of Community. Like, no one is interested in this sysadmin problem, at all | 00:02 |
| Estel_ | s/sysadmin/keykeeper/ | 00:02 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: also, notice date of my last post, and fact that no one feel that it's necessary to answer - both from Council, and from rest of Community. Like, no one is interested in this keykeeper problem, at all | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | nota bene I think Council is absolutely right entity to hand over keys from one sysadmin to another, in case the former sysadmin is silly enough to not insist in direct handover to his successor | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | but hey have to understand that they are neither competent nor entitled to * | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | use* those keys | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | just like our president (not in Germany, but meh, you get the picture) can appoint judges, but never may play judge and sentence criminals | 00:05 |
| Estel_ | yea, I got the point | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | the more power you got, the less you may use it | 00:06 |
| Estel_ | the nthing is that by bylaws, they can grant board of Directors whatever rights they want, to appoint judges, to be judge, etc, and they don't think it's - like changing Council statute - subject to referendum | 00:06 |
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| Estel_ | I don't accept POV, that disbanding Council and replacing it with BoD, with different "permissions granted", doesn't require referendum, and only changing current Council statutye require it | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | I just don't buy it | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | they better get their asbestos underwear, if you're actually right on that | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | replacing council with different entity is *much more* than changing Council's statute, not *less* | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | well, in the topic I've linked You in | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1246220#post1246220 | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | damn | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | I wrote about it, but forget to link it :P | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | sorry | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | all my things from: | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | <Estel_> DocScrutinizer06, this looks like good place to show support for not agreeing to "unfriendly takeover". It's also thread when discussion about migrating infra is happening | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | were about this thread | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | <Estel_> DocScrutinizer06, this looks like good place to show support for not agreeing to "unfriendly takeover". It's also thread when discussion about migrating infra is happening | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | (sry) | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1246220#post1246220 | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer06, ^^^ | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | I just re-applied my question, as it was already unanswered for more than 2 weeks, so it's not latest post, but one before, that I've mentioned :P | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | hoever, this thread doesn't cover whole story, as part of it is presented in bylaws draft on mailing list | 00:09 |
| Estel_ | oor spread all over the place, generally | 00:09 |
| Estel_ | I think that is main reason why no one else protest - only few people have full picture, derived from compositing mailing list, TMO, council logs, etc | 00:09 |
| Estel_ | it | 00:09 |
| Estel_ | s like they - or at least chair - want to "slip" idea,s using fact, that not many people will protest, due to ideas being slipped in 24324324 places. | 00:10 |
| Estel_ | so, searching for mailing list post with bylaws draft may be good idea too | 00:10 |
| Estel_ | I think that merlin1991 is searching for it already :P | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | GENERALANTILLES!!! | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | Jaffa!!! | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | what's that? | 00:11 |
| Estel_ | I dare to suggest, that they're as poorly informed about it, as You are ;) | 00:12 |
| Estel_ | (pure assumption, no proofs) | 00:12 |
| Estel_ | well, you know this rule of thumb? during turbulent times, like revolutions, hand-over of power etc, many "smartie" people tend to push bad laws without anyone noticing it early enough ;) | 00:13 |
| Estel_ | it's funny, how this real world things apply to "virtual" communities | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | like UEFA-cups and football world chanpionship ;-P | 00:14 |
| Estel_ | ;P | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | virtual worlds are as real as the other real world | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | you're just wearing a different pair of socks | 00:16 |
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| * kerio sees doc and estel talking in the backscroll | 00:20 | |
| * kerio grabs some popcorn | 00:20 | |
| Estel_ | why? we're not arguing, surprise! | 00:21 |
| Estel_ | instead of popcorn, grab Your own pair of uzi's and go to thread linked :p | 00:21 |
| kerio | :c | 00:21 |
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| freemangordon | merlin1991: I just read your email re "CSSU meeting" and judging from your answer,I am starting to thing there is some deep misunderstanding what KP is. So, in short, KP is stock maemo kernel with some set of patches on top of it | 08:55 |
| freemangordon | KP is not something written from scratch ;) | 08:56 |
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| chem|st | good morning | 11:06 |
| kerio | moin | 11:09 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: hi | 11:10 |
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| chem|st | merlin1991: what happened to the cbs-widget discussion? | 11:31 |
| kerio | i swear to god if you guys keep pushing that piece of crap i *will* convince Estel_ to do a hostile takeover | 11:33 |
| chem|st | kerio: ? | 11:34 |
| kerio | chem|st: it never worked properly for me | 11:34 |
| chem|st | then fix it! | 11:34 |
| kerio | the version in -devel, that actually updates connui-home-cellular, flat out shows *nothing* half of the time | 11:34 |
| kerio | I SHOULDN'T FUCKING NEED TO | 11:35 |
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| kerio | "cssu is long term support" my ass | 11:35 |
| chem|st | kerio: calm down pls, it is not in stable yet and in current condition it wont get there | 11:35 |
| kerio | i don't give a shit about cell broadcast, my main operator is 3g only, and custom operator names are silly anyway | 11:36 |
| chem|st | so why are you so upset then? | 11:36 |
| kerio | and there's no reason for it to be in cssu proper, because it's clearly something that can be made completely optional | 11:37 |
| kerio | chem|st: because i had to uninstall the metapackage | 11:37 |
| chem|st | kerio: that is what I said, so is camUI | 11:37 |
| kerio | bitches love metapackages | 11:37 |
| kerio | does the new camui have known regressions? | 11:38 |
| chem|st | no | 11:38 |
| kerio | hm | 11:38 |
| kerio | maybe it's because of that, then? idk | 11:39 |
| chem|st | but it is something not for cssu from my understanding | 11:39 |
| chem|st | I do not want to force users into things, system ok but not userexperience | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 11:40 |
| kerio | i suppose that having it not a replacement would mess up the lens cover controls | 11:40 |
| kerio | chem|st: there's not even this issue when talking about operator-name-cbs-widget | 11:40 |
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| chem|st | kerio: have it as a replacement, but outside of cssu | 11:40 |
| kerio | because apart from pali's silly repackaging, it could just Provide and Conflict with connui-home-cellular | 11:41 |
| chem|st | and lenscover control shouldn't be an issue | 11:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's just a symlink | 11:41 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we both know that dpkg diversions are stupid | 11:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty easy to set up something convenient for user to pick default camera that gets started with lens cover | 11:42 |
| kerio | they're not for replacing | 11:42 |
| kerio | oh, you meant the camera thing | 11:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and such a picker is the only correct way to handle such stuff | 11:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like selection of standard web browser, mailer etc, in windows | 11:44 |
| kerio | camera-ui2 has that | 11:44 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, to replace the default mediaplayer you have to change a .desktop | 11:45 |
| kerio | anyway, having some sort of "protocol" for default applications in cssu would be neat | 11:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | protocol? | 11:45 |
| kerio | programs that want to qualify put a .desktop somewhere, we provide a UI to choose between one of those or a custom one | 11:45 |
| kerio | not sure if it's something that's there already | 11:46 |
| kerio | s/custom one/custom command/ | 11:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | number of cases to handle is too small to invent some protocol for that | 11:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you design a specialized app for each case | 11:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one for camera selection, one for mediaplayer, one for errr... what else? MicroB mustn't get replaced I guess | 11:48 |
| kerio | surely we won't conflict with other program-choosing programs | 11:48 |
| kerio | apart maybe for dbus switchboard which is a piece of crap | 11:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then you might collect the UIs of all those in one settings screen | 11:48 |
| kerio | k | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure those apps still need some "API" so new camera-ui pkgs can link in | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that API however doen't have to be identical for camera, MP, browser, XY | 11:51 |
| kerio | i see | 11:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess usually you'll use the concept of /etc/foobar.d/* files | 11:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | compare /etc/alternatives | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, not exactly a good example | 11:53 |
| kerio | haha | 11:53 |
| chem|st | merlin1991: I opt out on camUI and CBS... | 11:59 |
| kerio | merlin1991: i opt out on cbs | 11:59 |
| kerio | chem|st: why don't you like the new camui :( | 11:59 |
| kerio | hrmpf, i want to test if OMP will be used to open stuff in microb | 12:01 |
| kerio | but the only websites with links to .mp4s are porn sites for mobile phones | 12:01 |
| chem|st | kerio: it is not a very update but a replacement of something that has the same color-mismatch^^ | 12:07 |
| chem|st | my sister and I took pictures of red shoes, 2n900s one with 'old'camui one with new and an N9... n900 cam-colors are way off | 12:08 |
| chem|st | tried with testpictures later at home as I suggested it might be the screen colors being off... | 12:08 |
| chem|st | but no it is the camera | 12:09 |
| chem|st | is the new cam ui developed further than now? I doubt it | 12:09 |
| kerio | chem|st: you do realize that it's meaningless if you don't try both versions on the *same* n900, right? | 12:46 |
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| chem|st | kerio: both n900s have the same picture taken with same result... doubt it makes any difference, though we wanted to see if her camera chip is broken | 12:58 |
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| merlin1991 | so much rage | 13:26 |
| merlin1991 | also, so much for "quality" http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=225313 the monitor is only 6 months old | 13:33 |
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| ivgalvez | Seen some misunderstandings lately, if anyone wish to ask for clarification I'm not "unfriendly" to do so | 14:27 |
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| merlin1991 | ivgalvez: you should look at http://maemo.org/community/council/community_council_meeting-august_17th-2012/ Topic #3 | 14:31 |
| merlin1991 | "A new version of CSSU enabler is now in devel" is plain wrong | 14:31 |
| merlin1991 | apart from that I see no misunderstandings | 14:33 |
| ivgalvez | merlin1991 I understood from Pali that a new version of CSSU enabler is already packaged in CSSU devel | 14:34 |
| ivgalvez | and it's going to enter CSSU testing soon | 14:34 |
| ivgalvez | am I wrong? | 14:34 |
| merlin1991 | ah then maybe reword it | 14:35 |
| ivgalvez | ok | 14:35 |
| ivgalvez | it seems that I'm referring to Extras Devel | 14:35 |
| merlin1991 | when you read the full sentence it looks like the package is in extras-devel should land in extras-testing soon and then go to extras | 14:35 |
| merlin1991 | exactly :D | 14:35 |
| ivgalvez | ok | 14:35 |
| merlin1991 | but it is true, that we have the new enabler in cssu-devel already | 14:35 |
| ivgalvez | about the "unfriendly takeover"... | 14:35 |
| merlin1991 | where, what? | 14:36 |
| merlin1991 | Estel read a bit too much between the lines when I commented on the older meeting | 14:36 |
| ivgalvez | Monday logs here: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2012-08-20.log.html | 14:37 |
| ivgalvez | at least I think that I'm quite freindly :-( | 14:37 |
| ivgalvez | friendly | 14:37 |
| merlin1991 | nobody in here seriously thinks about an unfriendly takeover | 14:37 |
| merlin1991 | I basically said that I had to laugh when I read "CSSU team looks to have stabilized where they are going." and from there on weird interpretation started | 14:38 |
| merlin1991 | sometimes there is nothing to read between the lines :) | 14:39 |
| ivgalvez | hands up and give me all your bits!!!! | 14:40 |
| ivgalvez | :-D | 14:40 |
| ivgalvez | Actually I'm really concerned about this comment: | 14:40 |
| ivgalvez | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1254012&postcount=632 | 14:40 |
| ivgalvez | yes, that comment was because after CSSU meeting | 14:41 |
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| merlin1991 | I think it's actually my email that made freemangordon post that, but I didn't have a chance to talk to him yet | 14:42 |
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| merlin1991 | I should have been back earlier when he's still around, but didn't manage :/ | 14:43 |
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| chem|st | I do not want to hurry a new kernel... but enabling thumb for the masses should be considered | 14:43 |
| ivgalvez_ | What worries me is the fact that we only have a few developers still standing and we cannot afford loosing any of them | 14:43 |
| ivgalvez_ | what about keeping community kernel and Thumb2 out of Stable but in Testing | 14:44 |
| ivgalvez_ | ? | 14:44 |
| ivgalvez_ | for those adventurous | 14:44 |
| ivgalvez_ | and keep Stable only with minimum aditions | 14:44 |
| merlin1991 | we do need a kernel with the pselect fix though | 14:44 |
| merlin1991 | and *nobody* wants todo that | 14:44 |
| chem|st | ivgalvez_: that would mean no more stable releases if we do not want thumb in stable | 14:45 |
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| ivgalvez_ | well, having a minimum kernel for Stable is a task that shouldn't avoid inclussion of more stuff in Testing | 14:45 |
| ivgalvez_ | chem|st: I'm not sure about that | 14:46 |
| merlin1991 | ivgalvez_: it would | 14:46 |
| ivgalvez_ | AFAIK Thumb2 is a question of building the packages with apropriate flags | 14:46 |
| chem|st | well if testing evolves to a thumb-repository... I would need to have an extra testing run for stable | 14:46 |
| merlin1991 | nope you need a different toolchain, different libc on device, ... | 14:46 |
| ivgalvez_ | can't you keep that patches in Testing and only move those relevant patches to Stable? | 14:47 |
| chem|st | ivgalvez_: not if they are thumb-combined | 14:47 |
| ivgalvez_ | chem|st: point taken | 14:47 |
| merlin1991 | so basically everything that turns thumb cannot go to stable anymore | 14:47 |
| merlin1991 | chem|st: did you have a chance to compare testing and stable? | 14:48 |
| chem|st | I'd love to just say "yeah hit it" but that would brake stable in the long run | 14:48 |
| ivgalvez_ | seriously I cannot imagine how many people could use the N900 as a rock solid server for critical tasks | 14:48 |
| chem|st | that would mean we decide to have thumb for good and dodge current setup | 14:48 |
| ivgalvez_ | I can't even imagine that there are tons of N900 users out there | 14:48 |
| chem|st | ivgalvez_: but there are... | 14:49 |
| ivgalvez_ | chem|st that's an assumption | 14:49 |
| chem|st | any n900 showig up in pricecomparison is gon within 2 days | 14:49 |
| chem|st | gone* | 14:49 |
| ivgalvez_ | considering that in 3 years a lot of people has moved | 14:49 |
| ivgalvez_ | yes, but that's also because USB ports are breaking badly | 14:50 |
| ivgalvez_ | and people still around need devices | 14:50 |
| ivgalvez_ | anyway, we need to be practical | 14:50 |
| ivgalvez_ | and we don't have muscle to maintain such a variety of flavours, so it's up to developers to work in one direction or the other .... or do not work at all!!! | 14:51 |
| ivgalvez_ | because of that I suggested to have scheduled meetings | 14:52 |
| ivgalvez_ | for CSSU | 14:52 |
| ivgalvez_ | endless discussions are useles | 14:52 |
| ivgalvez_ | it's better to have a fixed agenda: "do we include items A, B, C... etc? " then provide minutes, so there is no point to continue arguing | 14:53 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: BTW it is not you mail that made me post that :) | 14:58 |
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| ivgalvez_ | freemangordon: have you tried LTO (Link Time Optimization) with newest toolchain? (you know, big Phoronix fan) | 15:13 |
| freemangordon | yep, but cannot say if it is for good and bad :) | 15:14 |
| ivgalvez_ | I can only think on Firefox | 15:17 |
| ivgalvez_ | it's so damn slow that any improvement might be useful | 15:17 |
| ivgalvez_ | In response to Estel_ comments here during last two days: please check http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1254119&postcount=142 | 15:25 |
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| Lava_Croft | protip: use a spell checker if you are going to link to your own posts | 15:31 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 15:31 |
| Lava_Croft | thanks nontheless! | 15:31 |
| ivgalvez_ | Lava_Croft: I'm absolutely noob to IRC, sorry. I only use it as part of Council duties | 15:32 |
| Lava_Croft | no, its not meant for IRC | 15:32 |
| ivgalvez_ | do you mean the post? | 15:33 |
| Lava_Croft | i meant to say in a somewhat too harsh way maybe, that the forum post has a spelling error | 15:33 |
| Lava_Croft | yes, sorry if i sounded too harsh | 15:33 |
| ivgalvez_ | arrrr | 15:33 |
| Lava_Croft | weather here is so humid and lack of oxygen that im a bit grumpy | 15:33 |
| Lava_Croft | 4th alinea | 15:33 |
| Lava_Croft | first word | 15:33 |
| Lava_Croft | Councli | 15:33 |
| ivgalvez_ | yep | 15:34 |
| ivgalvez_ | thnx | 15:34 |
| Lava_Croft | np, its a bit lame to note such spelling errors in general, but this is not exactly a random post:) | 15:34 |
| ivgalvez_ | We will try to publish the proposal in it's current state by the end of this week | 15:35 |
| Lava_Croft | a good proposal beats a rushed proposal | 15:37 |
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| merlin1991 | hm system update, time to rebuild my realtek kernel module | 15:46 |
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| Estel_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1254012&postcount=632 | 17:50 |
| Estel_ | ^^^ WTF? | 17:50 |
| Estel_ | normally, I would bash ojn someone, who "threat" with leaving some group, unless some ultimatum is fulfilled. The problem is, that he is right there :( | 18:00 |
| Estel_ | I think that graph plotting time spent on developing and time spent on convincing that improvements are not "devil" would be interesting. I bet on 50/50. | 18:01 |
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| freemangordon | Estel_: BTW I am not threating anyone, was answering the question WTF is going on and why the updates have ceased | 18:52 |
| * Estel_ nod | 18:52 | |
| Estel_ | ~span freemangordon for such reason for ceasing thumb updates | 18:52 |
| Estel_ | s/span/spank/ | 18:52 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: ~spank freemangordon for such reason for ceasing thumb updates | 18:52 |
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| ivgalvez | Estel_ ping | 20:06 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez, pong | 20:06 |
| ivgalvez | please see http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1254223&postcount=144 | 20:06 |
| ivgalvez | in response to your latest comments | 20:06 |
| Estel_ | thank you. i've responded there | 20:08 |
| Estel_ | basically, I would like to be sure, that we understand each other correctly. What I mean, is that aquiring of anything "belonging" to community - databases, "keys" for system administration, etc, by 3rd party legal entity (so called "hildon foundation", no matter of final name) should be acceptedn by Community via referendum | 20:09 |
| Estel_ | which would also mean agreeing to final version of bylaws (whatever it will look) of such foundation | 20:10 |
| Estel_ | otherwise, in my understanding of current statute, such legal entity wouldn't comply with standards required to maintain infrastructure, transfered from Nokia and Nemein. It need mandate for it | 20:10 |
| Estel_ | as creating legal entity + replacing council with Board of Directors is essentialy renaming Council, and giving it much more power. I don't say it's bad thing - it jsut need to be confirmed by popular vote, IMO | 20:11 |
| ivgalvez | everything needs to be done by popular vote | 20:11 |
| Estel_ | currently, Community is "owner" of data (except for bizzare and hilarous situation with TMO), as said by Nokians, and represented by Nokia, Nemein maintaining it, and Council cooperating | 20:12 |
| Estel_ | legal entity and board of Directors +_ Nokia pulling plug changes everything | 20:12 |
| * Estel_ nods at ivgalvez | 20:12 | |
| ivgalvez | there is no way for current Council to make any action without community approval | 20:12 |
| Estel_ | so basically, we agree :) | 20:12 |
| ivgalvez | basically yes, the question is "how to organize it?" | 20:12 |
| Estel_ | well, we have tool for it - referendum | 20:13 |
| Estel_ | announcing it the same way as council election work, with all things like time from annoucement for voting start (and 2 weeks period of voting) ensures, that everyne interested can participate | 20:13 |
| ivgalvez | first voting for bylaws, then for Council, then for Board? or one single step with both Council and bylaws? | 20:13 |
| Estel_ | as we know from CA experiences, other means of deciding always leave many people with "I haven';t had chance to protest! - no matter if it's jsutified or not | 20:14 |
| ivgalvez | or no Council at all... | 20:14 |
| ivgalvez | I mean, that's yet to decide | 20:14 |
| Estel_ | well, bylaws delete Council, msot likely, so I would say "first voting for bylaws" | 20:14 |
| Estel_ | if bylaws is accepted, then, vote for board | 20:14 |
| ivgalvez | imagine that for bylaws there is a tricky point with great disagreement | 20:14 |
| Estel_ | personally, i don't see reason for Council to exist, if we will have elected board of directors | 20:14 |
| Estel_ | well, if people say "no" in referendum, bylaws must be improved, and accepted again | 20:15 |
| ivgalvez | and we need to set up a voting to choose between two options | 20:15 |
| Estel_ | before that, nothing change3s, legally | 20:15 |
| Estel_ | sure, as long as there is 3th option to not agree with both proposals | 20:15 |
| ivgalvez | yes, is more a technical question than any other thing | 20:15 |
| Estel_ | we need more than 50% of Community to accept some idea | 20:15 |
| Estel_ | that's good to hear | 20:15 |
| Estel_ | I was worried, as Woody, repeatedly, stated that in his opinion, referendum is kind of wasted time | 20:16 |
| ivgalvez | what's the point in creating a community nobody is followint? | 20:16 |
| Estel_ | and as he is chair - responsible for organising things like referendum and elections, directly - it was worrying | 20:16 |
| ivgalvez | folloging | 20:16 |
| Estel_ | sure, we totally agree here | 20:16 |
| Estel_ | the thing is - time | 20:16 |
| Estel_ | council can't, IMO, assum,e that 1st attempt at bylaws will suceed | 20:16 |
| Estel_ | succeed* | 20:16 |
| Estel_ | in case of fail, fixing it, and 2nd referendum require much time | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez | because of that first it needs to be ironed with everybody's help | 20:17 |
| Estel_ | I'm afraid that with current speed of events - no offense - there will be time only for one referendum, before Nokia pulls plug | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez | bad timing the summer | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez | I agree on that | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez | I'm also worried with current pace | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez | but that's what we have | 20:18 |
| Estel_ | I'm not pushing You, as, after all, it's Councils decision, but if anyone ask me, I would took bylaws and merge it with suggestions from mailing list, then announce everywhere (TMO, news, etc) | 20:18 |
| Estel_ | to start discussion about it | 20:18 |
| Estel_ | SD69 is great guy, but it can't be paralyzed because of his absence | 20:18 |
| ivgalvez | that's the plan | 20:18 |
| Estel_ | well, we have also problem of upcoming time for next Council's election. I hoped to have referendum about bylaws before that time, but it seems hardly doable now | 20:19 |
| Estel_ | it also complicated thing. Have You tried to project possible timeline for legal entity/bylaws thing? I'm little afraid, that it can be humanly impossible to end it - without panic rush - before dcecember 31 | 20:20 |
| Estel_ | you know, mixed with election for Council | 20:20 |
| ivgalvez | I don't want to think about that :( | 20:20 |
| ivgalvez | I'm also afraid after Qt operation | 20:20 |
| Estel_ | sure, but i'm afraid You should, to be ableto start some kind of plan B | 20:20 |
| ivgalvez | with qgil's position | 20:20 |
| Estel_ | yea, that's another story | 20:21 |
| Estel_ | any "blackout" of infrastructure, even temporary, would be catastrophical | 20:21 |
| ivgalvez | indeed | 20:21 |
| Estel_ | (temporary as in "2 weeks" or "month" blackout) | 20:21 |
| Estel_ | what's the result of last Monay's meeting with obs team? | 20:22 |
| Estel_ | haven't found anything rellevant in friday's Council's meeting logs | 20:22 |
| Estel_ | anything new yesterday? | 20:22 |
| ivgalvez | I didn't assist | 20:22 |
| ivgalvez | so we didn't have first hand information | 20:22 |
| ivgalvez | don't refrain yourself from helping even if you are no longer a council member | 20:23 |
| ivgalvez | ;) | 20:23 |
| Estel_ | sure, but OBS-council communication was took by Woody, AFAIK, which practically means "lack of diplomatic relations" with me and vice-versa :) | 20:24 |
| ivgalvez | he's on holidays this week | 20:24 |
| ivgalvez | so he couldn't help on that | 20:24 |
| Estel_ | I'll gladly help on shaping bylaws, when they'll be published anywhere else than mailing list only | 20:25 |
| ivgalvez | I'm also very worried with lack of response from X-Fade | 20:25 |
| Estel_ | I know You probably have much work to do, but You know, month have only ~4 weeks, and it's short time before cadence ends - maybe instead of waiting for woody, you could mix bylaws draft with mailing list suggestions, and put it in TMO, news, etc? | 20:26 |
| ivgalvez | any possibility to start creation of community sysop group is being deferred | 20:26 |
| ivgalvez | yes, as I said that's the plan | 20:26 |
| ivgalvez | in last meeting | 20:26 |
| ivgalvez | we decided to publish it this week | 20:27 |
| ivgalvez | as it is if no further asistance is received | 20:27 |
| ivgalvez | I'm also worried that at this time of the year, we won't receive too much feedback | 20:28 |
| ivgalvez | honestly, I'm sending dozens of mails to developers about promotion of packages | 20:28 |
| ivgalvez | and nobody answers | 20:28 |
| ivgalvez | so... | 20:29 |
| Estel_ | yea, but developers are different beast. You may count on zillions of discuttant, that will criticize bylaws :) | 20:29 |
| ivgalvez | not many people yet in here | 20:29 |
| Estel_ | BTW, see query | 20:29 |
| ivgalvez | OK, I have to go now, I'll paste later some of this random thoughts in TMO thread as a response to your latest message, just for reference and for those not following IRC | 20:30 |
| Estel_ | sure | 20:30 |
| Estel_ | feel free to post both quotations form irc and link to logs, or Your summary, i trust You on doing it well :) | 20:30 |
| ivgalvez | what do you mean wit "see query"? | 20:30 |
| ivgalvez | case sensitive Me sounds good :D | 20:31 |
| Estel_ | private irc message | 20:31 |
| ivgalvez | didn't receive it | 20:32 |
| Estel_ | change Your irc tab ;p | 20:32 |
| Estel_ | ough | 20:32 |
| ivgalvez | doh! | 20:32 |
| ivgalvez | yes I see | 20:32 |
| Estel_ | fine, as i was jsut about to spam you with copy of it, in 2nd attempt :P | 20:32 |
| ivgalvez | thanks | 20:33 |
| ivgalvez | see you | 20:33 |
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