IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Thursday, 2012-04-05

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merlin1991about kenrel00:01
freemangordonwhich one?00:02
merlin1991problem is, that the maemo webpage does not recognise epochs00:02
javispedropwned-kernel00:02
freemangordonso?00:02
merlin1991so ever since there was an epoch added to the kernel-power version shit has been flyin00:02
freemangordonPali said he is using dput00:02
freemangordonyou mean package iface?00:03
freemangordonmerlin1991,, how do you know that?00:03
merlin1991yep00:03
merlin1991freemangordon:  X-Fade told me :D00:03
freemangordonaah00:04
freemangordonjavispedro ^^^00:04
javispedrobut packages interface is completely separate from the repo?00:04
javispedrodoes it enter the repo?00:04
freemangordonyes00:04
javispedroaaaaaaaaaa00:04
javispedroah wait00:04
javispedrothere were two problems00:04
merlin1991pacakge interface is the one that handles promoten from devel -> testing ->  extras00:04
javispedrothe first one was that it required a few tries to actually build, which is a cauldron problem00:04
freemangordonyep00:04
javispedrothe second one is that even if succesfully built it does not get into packages interface...00:05
freemangordonand once build you cannot see it in -devel00:05
freemangordon:nod:00:05
merlin1991http://maemo.org/packages/view/kernel-power/ still claims that power49 is in -devel even though power50 is in -devel00:05
freemangordon-devel as repo00:05
javispedrobut it is not true00:06
javispedrothe packages interface does handle epoch00:06
merlin1991X-Fade told me that the version comparison algorithm of the package interface does not handle epoch00:06
javispedrohttp://trac.midgard-project.org/browser/branches/ragnaroek/midcom/org.maemo.packages/handler/repository/repository.php#L74400:07
javispedroI see epoch right there00:08
merlin1991well nfc then00:09
merlin1991fact is the interface does not show the latest version in the repo00:14
javispedrobut it does not show it anywhere, not even in the logs00:15
freemangordon:nod:00:15
merlin1991yet it still *is* there http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel-power/00:16
freemangordonyou cans see autobuilder logs, that it has successfuly finished the build process00:16
merlin1991I also find it interesting how everybody is on about the "cssu" issue, but nobody actually explained yet what it really is00:17
freemangordonbesides me :)00:17
merlin1991(in the council and other tmo threads)00:17
merlin1991freemangordon: I must have missed that post00:17
freemangordonbut it seems I am not famous neither "old member" enough so someone to read my posts and take them seriously. :D00:18
merlin1991can you link me?00:19
freemangordonjust a minute00:19
DocScrutinizerlol00:20
freemangordonhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1187613&postcount=3900:20
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freemangordonmerlin1991 ^^^00:27
merlin1991freemangordon: thanks00:27
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merlin1991freemangordon: ping13:34
Jaffamerlin1991: So you're not fully aware of what the "CSSU issue" is either?13:50
merlin1991Jaffa: I am13:50
merlin1991I meant that tmo isn't13:50
JaffaAh13:50
JaffaWell, it's still been badly communicated.13:50
merlin1991it's never been communicated afaik13:50
JaffaThe CSSU project never came forward publicly to say "we have issue X, we think Y would solve it, but..." maemo-developers, as the official mailing list, would've been the right place.13:51
merlin1991the problem is that the upload to the repo is tied to 1 garage account (mags) and therefore to 1 set of rsa keys, which makes it impossible to release stuff if said person is missing13:51
merlin1991We had several talks with X-Fade where he said that the current infrastructure works in a way that only 1 account will work, and that it "needs work"13:52
JaffaBut before that there's a public discussion to be had about who should be CSSU -testing and -stable gatekeepers, and the process around that.13:53
* merlin1991 wonders what the result of that would be13:54
Jaffa...involving the current stakeholders.13:54
merlin1991since for pretty much any process that would make for proper qa we don't have enough people13:54
merlin1991we're atm 4 guys who do stuff for cssu13:54
merlin1991not exactly the basis to have a lot of qa and defined processes that by definition take time13:55
Jaffamerlin1991: An agreement with MAG etc that you (say) should also be able to upload to -testing but that $USER will be the only user who can push to -stable. Once there's a defined set of people, there's an obvious workaround: there's a new garage account set up with shared keys (whilst a backlog item is added to the repo to allow multiple pushing)13:55
Jaffamerlin1991: Right, but if there're no processes people can't then complain that $RANDOM_REQUEST_ON_IRC isn't finished by $RANDOM_TIME_NO_ONE_AGREED_TO13:56
merlin1991:D13:56
merlin1991well atm we've got your proposed intermediate setup in place13:56
JaffaRight. So what's the "CSSU issue"? AFAIK, ultimately, it's that MAG set up a project but got a bit busy and a whole bunch of users got very upset whilst a few developers were constructively still pushing changes to git.13:57
JaffaSaid users not realising that, perhaps, a small delay isn't the end of the world (especially since it's still far faster than Nokia's own release processes)13:57
merlin1991that's it, plus the problem in infrastucture that does not allow us to actually have a second person to upload stuff13:58
merlin1991only it wasn't a small delay13:58
Jaffamerlin1991: Except it does if you have a shared account13:58
merlin1991Mag was Mia for a month or 213:58
merlin1991Jaffa: but it's not proper13:58
merlin1991there should be distinctive accounts for everyone who can upload13:58
merlin1991simply for matters of transparency when something goes wrong13:59
Jaffamerlin1991: So what? You've got 4 people and limited QA anyway. Separate accounts gives better accountability, but again - you can fix that with process (e.g. sign some random file in the package with your private RSA key)13:59
merlin1991I don't want to sit here and discuss the fallout of of $someone uploaded to -testing some foobar and now we want to know who13:59
Jaffamerlin1991: Right; but the problem is that the community (through SD69) just seems to organise occasional meetings and throw tasks at X-Fade without any public prioritisation. I agree with his assessment he's perhaps been too focused on apps.formeego.org, and that the allocated resource to Maemo needs to be used.14:01
merlin1991hm wrong wording I meant I don't want to sit here having to deal wit hthe fallout of ...14:01
JaffaHowever, that the Council can't present a list of the current backlog is a problem.14:01
merlin1991well currently there is no council14:01
JaffaEspecially since all the code is open source and if anyone *really* needed to, could scratch their own itch. And then the task for X-Fade is to support.14:01
merlin1991there's just SD69 who happened to get active towards the end of the period14:02
JaffaIndeed; but that seems to be being discussed on TMO as *Nokia*'s fault.14:02
JaffaIt's the community's fault for not stepping up.14:02
merlin1991well I don't represent $tmo_opinon :D14:02
merlin1991but you're right about the backlog, there needs to be a list of problems with attached priorities14:03
merlin1991but about open source code of mame.org I didn't know that14:03
merlin1991when javispedro posted a link in here the other day it was the first time ever I saw it14:03
Jaffamerlin1991: It's not massively discussed because so few people ever contributed (e.g. during the phases of hectic development on maemo.org, despite repeated calls for volunteers with CSS; PHP; ... no-one really came forward)14:04
JaffaI think I submitted a patch (or at least an architecture) for something around karma calculation in 2007/2008.14:04
freemangordonmerlin1991, pong14:12
merlin1991I lost my note regarding l10n re :$14:12
merlin1991got the tool name for me again? :D14:12
freemangordonhahahaha :D. you promised to have a backup note. anyway, it is msgunfmt.14:13
merlin1991well it is in my logs14:13
merlin1991though easier to just ask the man :D14:13
freemangordonyeah :)14:14
freemangordonwhat's going on with the next -testing update, any responce frm mag?14:14
merlin1991got email yesterday that he'll show up here today14:15
freemangordongood, good, after all it seems miracles happen :D14:15
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Palimerlin1991, freemangordon, DocScrutinizer: I added support for cbs widget and control panel to change channel number15:58
PaliCode in my git repo: https://gitorious.org/~pali/community-ssu/pali-operator-name-cbs-widget15:59
PaliI'm testing it now, if there are no problems, I will push it to cssu repo16:00
freemangordonok16:06
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Paliseems, that working fine16:22
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freemangordonPali, I am going to RE phone control panel applet, maybe it is better to wait until I finish, as your code should be integrated there18:53
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Palifreemangordon, ok19:08
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merlin1991MohammadAG: ping?22:56
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