IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Sunday, 2012-03-11

Paliin ke-recv code is line for ignoring swap00:00
freemangordonke_recv[1578]: mount_volumes:950: trying mount /dev/mmcblk1p3 to /media/mmc1p300:01
freemangordonMar 11 00:00:26 Nokia-N900 root: /usr/sbin/osso-mmc-mount.sh: /dev/mmcblk1p3 type '82' is not FAT32 or FAT1600:01
freemangordonMar 11 00:00:26 Nokia-N900 root: /usr/sbin/osso-mmc-mount.sh: mounting /dev/mmcblk1p3 read-write fs vfat to /media/mmc1p3, rc: 25500:01
Palinot enoght00:02
freemangordonwhat else do you need00:02
Palican you upload full ke-recv syslog to pastebin?00:02
Paliignoring swap is done in function which add paritition to volume list00:02
freemangordonwhat was the command from n900?00:03
freemangordonfor pastebin00:03
Palino idea if there is command for that00:03
freemangordonok00:03
freemangordonthere is, but i will use the site anyway00:03
Siceloapt-get install pastebinit00:03
freemangordonSicelo, 10x00:03
freemangordonPali, http://pastebin.com/bqzEURQ100:04
freemangordonThat is the result after using usb mass storage mode00:04
freemangordon"/dev/mmcblk0p3     950401  974976   24576     786432   82  Linux swap / Solaris"00:05
freemangordonoops, sorry00:05
freemangordon"/dev/mmcblk1p3       1806+   1935     130-   1042168   82  Linux swap / Solaris" is the partitio in question00:05
Palifreemangordon, unplug card, restart ke-recv, plug it again and sent ke-recv syslog output again00:08
Palithis log say, that mmc part is already in list00:08
freemangordonPali, I have my swap on sdcard, need to move it on internal mmc first, give me a couple of minutes00:09
Palirestart ke-recv00:09
freemangordonok00:09
freemangordonwaiting for swapoff to complete00:09
Paliok00:09
Palialso give me output of lshal -u /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_uuid_130186e3_9585_40a8_954a_dc2ee500b23f00:12
freemangordonPali, how am i supposed to restart ke-recv?00:12
Palisudo /etc/init.d/ke-recv restart00:12
freemangordonok00:12
Paliis that above uuid swap?00:13
freemangordonPali, this device is my ext3 partition, are you sure you need lshal output for it?00:13
freemangordonno00:13
PaliI need to know which is swap00:13
freemangordonPali, http://pastebin.com/FMeKTxBP00:20
Paliis this your swap? /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_uuid_19ED_24CB00:23
freemangordonyes00:23
Paligive me output of lshal -u /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_uuid_19ED_24CB00:24
freemangordonhttp://pastebin.com/0MR7L0Gx00:25
freemangordonsomething in kernel?00:26
Paliso this output from HAL thinks that that partition is FAT3200:26
Palinot swap00:26
freemangordonI see00:26
freemangordonbut it is swap, that is for sure, id 82 :)00:27
Palitry mkswap00:27
Pali82 is only MBR ID00:27
Palibut HAL also look at first paritions magic chars...00:28
freemangordonPali, that swap partition is the only one I use00:28
freemangordonwhat is the idea of doing mkswap on it?00:28
PaliI think that mkswap create proper header on that part00:29
Palie.g. you need to create swap partition before using it via swapon00:29
Paliat least on that partition is some FAT32 header which some UID00:30
freemangordonsure, but why the hell would HAL think that ACTIVE (i.e. swapon-ed partition) is VFAT is beyond my imagination00:30
freemangordonPali, it is my ONLY swap00:30
freemangordonso it should be good enough for swapon00:31
Palino idea, but HAL is shit00:31
freemangordon:D00:31
freemangordonwell, maybe this should be workarounded somehow00:31
freemangordonin ke-recv scripts, based on partition id00:31
Palitry swapon -f <device>00:32
freemangordon-f stands for?00:32
Pali-f should reinitialize swap device00:33
freemangordonok00:33
Palimanpage tell that it call mkswap if needed00:33
freemangordonswapon: invalid option -- f :p00:33
Paliseems that busybox does not support -f :-(00:33
freemangordonwell, I will do mkswap00:33
*** trumee is now known as trumee_afk00:35
Paliif you used that partition for FAT32 before swap and you did not run mkswap this is normal problem00:35
Palibecause swapon (without -f) maybe did not changed partition header00:36
freemangordoni did mkswap, let me try again00:36
Palimaybe again stupid HAL doing some bad things... or busybox00:37
freemangordonno joy, ke-recv tries to mount it00:38
freemangordonbtw HAL reports volume.partition.type = '0x82'  (string)00:38
freemangordonhow is that related to VFAT?00:39
Palivolume.partition is data from MBR00:39
Paliand volume.* is data from parition (or kernel or somewhat...)00:39
freemangordonPali, I think a workaround in /usr/sbin/osso-mmc-mount.sh is needed00:39
freemangordonto ingore swap partitions00:40
Paliproblem is that we cannot say that MBR id is always correct00:40
Palisome windows programs for formating does not update it00:40
Palibut I'd like to know why that stupid hal always think that part is FAT00:41
Paliand where HAL got that FAT UID (19ED_24CB)00:41
PaliDocScrutinizer, do you know how HAL is working?00:41
DocScrutinizera bit00:42
Palisee ^^^00:42
freemangordonwell, it is possible the stupid windoze I am connecting n900 to to make bad things00:42
freemangordonlike screwing up unknown partitions00:42
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freemangordonnaah, scratch that00:43
Palifreemangordon, maybe HAL does not update info after running mkswap/mkfs.* try to reboot N90000:43
DocScrutinizersorry, no sufficent knowledge about HAL to contribute much00:43
Paliafter reboot HAL must loose its memory00:43
freemangordonPali, i've removed the backcover after making mkswap, that should be pretty enough00:44
freemangordondid I?00:44
freemangordonlet me try again, just to be sure00:44
Palitry to mkswap with closed cover00:44
freemangordon:)00:45
freemangordonwhat I did is mkswap, removed backcover, returned backcover on its place00:45
freemangordonno way I can do mkswap while de cover is removed00:46
freemangordon*the00:46
Paliok, see if lshal was changed00:46
freemangordon volume.fstype = 'vfat'  (string)00:47
freemangordon:(00:47
Palirestart hal00:47
Palior can you create backup of first MB of your partition?00:47
freemangordondd?00:47
Paliyes with dd00:48
freemangordonyou think that bootsectors contains FAT signiture?00:48
freemangordon*bootsector00:48
Palimaybe00:49
freemangordonif that is th case then it is mkswap to blame00:49
Palior you can try to dd if=/dev/zero for first MB of your part00:49
freemangordonbut that won't solve our problem. BTW why do you think windows dows not update partition table?00:49
freemangordonok, will try that00:49
Palimaybe also mkswap/swapon in busybox is broken00:50
Paliso maemo did not updated partition correctly00:50
Paliwe found a lot of bugs in busybox, so this will be no surprise if swap is also broken...00:51
PaliDocScrutinizer, do you think that busybox can be safely use for swapon?00:52
DocScrutinizerAIUI it should, though it doesn't support priorities afaik00:53
freemangordon"dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1p3 bs=512 count=2048" done the job :)00:54
freemangordonlets do mkswap on that00:54
DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: wtf?00:55
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer wtf as in?00:56
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freemangordonI mean what did you find strange00:56
DocScrutinizerwhat are you doing?00:56
freemangordonzapping the fist meg of my swap partition00:56
DocScrutinizersecure erase?00:56
DocScrutinizerwhat for?00:56
freemangordonbecause HAL thinks it is VFAT00:57
freemangordon:D00:57
DocScrutinizerLOL00:57
DocScrutinizerI'd assume a simple mkswap should suffice00:57
freemangordonBut it seems it is not HAL to blame, after all it is mkswap not updating the first sector00:57
DocScrutinizermhm00:58
freemangordonPali ^^^00:58
DocScrutinizerwell, shouldn't this partition be marked as swap in MBR?00:58
Palibut HAL ignore MBR00:58
freemangordonit is00:58
Palifor detecting parittion00:58
Palie.g HAL tell you MBR ID, but it show that fstype is other that MBR ID00:59
DocScrutinizerdoesn't sound right00:59
freemangordonactually sound right to me00:59
freemangordonbecause fs type is written somewhere in the first sector01:00
PaliDocScrutinizer, you can see freemangordon lshal output, where is correct swap mbr id, but incorrect (fat) fstype01:00
Paliyou can detect fs type by first magic sequence on partition01:01
DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: nope, for a swap partition that's no requirement to have any special 1. sector afaik01:01
DocScrutinizerbtw same applies for superfloppy, obviously01:01
freemangordonPali, actually DocScrutinizer, is right, by no means we can guess what will be in swap partition first sector01:02
freemangordonor first sector is not used?01:02
freemangordonwe are not alone :) http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=11994801:04
PaliI have no idea now how is that detecting...01:05
DocScrutinizerif HAL tries to guess fs by first sector for all partitions, then that's a bug for sure01:05
PaliHAL is one big bug01:05
Palinow I understand why more desktop distribution removed HAL01:05
Palifreemangordon, is now your swap and ke-recv ok?01:07
freemangordonseems like01:07
Paliok01:08
freemangordonbut we should solve the issue with "Nokia N900" appearing for sdcard partitions01:08
Paliyes, I think that problem is in hildon-fm01:09
freemangordonBTW yoy can tell the system where is sdcard FAT partition mounted by using an variable01:09
freemangordonlet me find the name01:09
Palinot working correctly01:09
Palibecause some apps has hardcoded /dev/mmc101:10
freemangordonPali, I mean gconf value01:10
freemangordonsure?01:10
freemangordondamn01:10
Palinot exactly01:10
Palithere is env, gconf key and hardcoded values in apps01:10
freemangordon"/system/osso/af/mmc-mount-point"01:10
Paliso for FAT partition (write access) is good idea to use only /media/mmc101:11
freemangordonok01:11
freemangordonso you think it is hildon-fm? then it should be fixable01:11
Paliand I saw that each app using other method (gconf, global env, or the worse hardcoded name to /media/mmc1)01:11
PaliI think that hildon-fm decide what to show in osso file manager (and also in select file dialog)01:12
Paliand also decide how to show name + icon01:12
Paliyou can try to use kp50 + last ke-recv for usb storage (host mode)01:12
freemangordonok, let me push updated debian/changelog for ke-recv an I'll look at hildon-fm01:12
Paliit will automount it to /media/usb/<mount_point>01:13
Paliand in filemanager will be nice usb icon with correct storage name01:13
freemangordonI don't have usb stick around :D01:13
Paliok01:13
freemangordonbut could try with second n90001:13
Pali:D01:14
freemangordon:D01:14
freemangordonPali, debian/changelog for ke-recv updated01:17
Paliok01:17
Palifreemangordon, did you find something new about thumb? or it is definitly broken on n900?01:23
freemangordondidn't have time to continue01:24
Paliok01:24
freemangordonPali, do you know who assigns "mmc-undefined-name" for volume name?01:24
Palino idea, but string "mmc-undefined-name" is not in ke-recv01:25
freemangordonbug #890401:27
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/8904 Memory card name changes to "mmc-undefined-name" after a couple of days01:27
Paliit is still in fremantle?01:27
Paligoogle say this: http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-commits@maemo.org/msg01900.html01:27
Paliso libgnomevfs: +#define MMC_LABEL_UNDEFINED_NAME          "mmc-undefined-name"01:28
freemangordonlet me check something01:28
freemangordonyeah, that is what i wanted to check. we have that in cssu?01:28
Palisource code is on gitorious: http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/osso-gnome-vfs201:32
Palibinary package libosso-gnomevfs2-001:33
Paliand here is that patch: http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/osso-gnome-vfs2/blobs/master/debian/patches/07-mmc-card-name.patch01:35
freemangordonPali, no mmc-undefined-name find there01:35
Paliline 3301:35
freemangordonaaah, stupid me, i was skipping .patch files :)01:36
Palilook to branch fremantle, not master, it has more commits01:37
freemangordonyeah, lots of .patch files.01:39
freemangordonanyway, that should be fixable01:39
freemangordonhmm. that tries to open /tmp/.mmc-volume-label and searches there, i think it is ke-recv that writes that file01:41
Paliyou are right01:41
freemangordonso we are back at ke-recv :)01:42
Palibut in that patch is somethink which determinate name of entry in file manager01:43
Paliso it should be fixed to work also for /media/mmc1p*01:43
freemangordonwell, having several entries on filemanager with th same "Memory Card" labels is not much frendly01:44
Palifreemangordon, updating is done by shell script osso-update-mmc-label.sh (part of ke-recv)01:44
freemangordonyeah, I know01:45
Palithis is updating that /tmp/ files01:45
freemangordonbut we should put at lieast partition sizes next to "Memory Card", at least that is what ubuntu does01:45
Palibut fat, ext, ... also support labels01:45
Paliok01:46
freemangordonok, use the label if there is one and concat the size in Gb, concat only the size if there is no label01:46
Paliseems that using that osso-* for getting label working only for FAT and only for partitions in /etc/mtools.conf01:47
freemangordonyeah01:47
PaliHAL does not tell us label?01:47
freemangordonNFC, let me check01:47
Paliit should be volume.label in HAL key01:48
freemangordonI am not sure I have label set on my ext3 partition01:48
freemangordonyeah ,  volume.partition.label = ''  (string)01:49
Palino volume.label01:49
PaliI tested and it give me correct for ext4, swap and vfat01:50
freemangordonvolume.label = ''  (string)01:50
Palido you have set any label?01:50
freemangordonno01:50
freemangordon:)01:50
Paliso then it is ok01:51
freemangordonyes01:51
Paliwe can drop that stupid osso-* label script and use hal01:51
Palibecause hal told me also ext4 label01:51
Pali(drop = not call that script from ke-recv)01:52
Paliwe do not know if other programs in maemo does not depend on it01:52
freemangordonno, we can't as it updates /etc/mtools.conf, and I suspect that is used from /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh01:53
freemangordonand maybe by some others01:53
Paliok01:55
PaliI have other patches for pc-suite-enable.sh (and disable too) to enable usb network01:55
Paliwhat do you think can it be added to cssu?01:55
freemangordonwhat about sesection dialog, we should rewrite it too01:56
freemangordon*selection01:56
Paliis closed01:56
freemangordoni kno01:57
freemangordondamn01:57
freemangordoni know01:57
Palibut we can use pc-suite mode also for usb networking01:57
Palibecause pc suite mode using g_nokia gadget01:57
Paliwhich automatically add usb0 interface01:57
freemangordonare you sure? I think there is an additional gadget when connection to pc-suite, let me check01:58
PaliI have already patched that script and it is working :-)01:58
Paliit also startup dhcp server in n900, so I can easy connect it to my laptop01:58
freemangordonisn't qtmobilehotspot supposed to do that?01:59
Palino idea01:59
freemangordon:D01:59
Palisee fixed scripts: https://code.launchpad.net/~pali/+junk/maemo_pcsuite-usb-network01:59
freemangordonPali, pc-suite-enable.sh is a part of ke-recv, no need for additional packaging02:01
PaliI know02:01
freemangordonok02:01
Palibut this was prepaired for extras-devel02:01
Palibut never pushed02:01
freemangordonaah, i see02:01
Paliand now it can be integrated into cssu02:01
freemangordonwell not sure that should go in CSSU, there is application in extras for internet sharing, and it does its job pretty well02:02
freemangordonincluding iptables control :)02:03
Paliok02:03
Palithis is not designed for internet sharing02:03
freemangordonyeah, try qtmobilehotspot, damn good piece of a SW02:03
freemangordonand what for?02:03
Palito connect to internet on n900 via notebook/computer02:04
freemangordonaaah, i see02:04
Palior to connect to n900 via ssh02:04
PaliI using it for copying files02:04
freemangordonwell, sound usefull, but bringing up a network by default does not sounds good to me02:05
Paliok02:05
freemangordonwe should rewrite that stupid selection dialog, shouldn't be that hard02:05
Palior we can try to ask if that dialog cannot be opened02:06
Paliwe have more stuff to rewrite :D02:06
Pali(e.g profile dialogs, ...)02:06
freemangordonyeah, but that should be a piece of cake, dialog with 2 buttons02:06
Paliyou also need to listen to some events02:07
Paliand I have no idea to what and which events02:07
freemangordonI know. And there is IDA ;)02:07
PaliIDA?02:07
freemangordoninterractive dissassembler :)02:08
Pali:)02:08
freemangordonnever heard of?02:08
Palino02:08
freemangordonwow02:09
PaliI used only objdump02:09
freemangordonthats the RE best friend02:09
Palialso when I RE cold flashing I used only objdump02:09
freemangordonit has even de-compiler for 38602:09
freemangordondecompiles to pseudo-c code02:10
freemangordonvery good, very useful, IDA rocks02:10
Paliok, I will look at it when I do some RE :-)02:10
freemangordonwell, you can get it legally of course, it costs a pile of money02:10
freemangordon*can't02:11
freemangordonand it has only windoze version afaik02:11
Paliok, now I'm going offline02:13
Palibye02:13
freemangordonbb02:13
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freemangordonPali, ping12:12
Palifreemangordon, pong12:13
freemangordonlook at ke-recv and libhildonfm on gitorious ;)12:13
freemangordonthe only glitch remaining is the naming order, for some reason my fat partition is shown as Memory Card (2), while ext3 is just Memory Card12:14
freemangordonmerlin1991, ping12:15
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freemangordonPali, who is responsible for ordering the partitions, HAL?12:19
Palihal events12:19
freemangordonhmm, could that be workarounded somehow in ke-recv?12:20
freemangordonso /media/mmc1 to always has "Memory Card" as name12:20
freemangordon*vhave12:21
freemangordonwhatever12:21
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Palifreemangordon, add build depends on library libvolume_id12:22
Palito ke-recv12:22
freemangordonyep12:22
freemangordonshall that be added to control?12:23
PaliI think yes, but check correct package name12:24
freemangordonlibvolume-id-dev12:25
freemangordondamn, filemanager freezes when USB device is automounted, could be that my second n900 sdcard partition table is a total mess12:26
PaliI got same problem sometimes12:26
Palikill filemanager and open it again12:26
freemangordonyeah, that works12:27
freemangordonbut seems like a bug12:27
freemangordonNFC where12:27
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freemangordonupdated debian/control pushed in ke-recv master12:30
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freemangordonmerlin1991, ping12:54
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DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: you asked for HARM openmode kernel link?15:39
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, can't remember15:58
freemangordonin what context?15:59
DocScrutinizerso you're not free-MG on #harmattan?15:59
freemangordonnope :)15:59
DocScrutinizernm then :-)16:00
DocScrutinizerunless you got an N9 and are willing to test openmode kernel for harmattan 1.216:00
freemangordonI don't have N9. And TBH I won't get one, N900 is far better than N9 and I have 2 of it :)16:02
Lava_Crofthaving 2 n900's is king16:02
DocScrutinizer100% d'accord16:02
Lava_Croftbut the n9 looks a lot more sturdy16:02
Lava_Croftthe n9 is made from paper mache16:02
Lava_Crofter16:02
Lava_Croftn900*16:02
DocScrutinizerwell, of course a crappy C-TS with glas is more sturdy tan a nice R-TS. And less buttons have that only advantage that they can'T fail16:03
freemangordonwell, usually I take care for the things I like, so fragility is not a problem for me16:03
Lava_Croftyeah, but i use my n900 all day16:03
Lava_Croftthe usage-hours are so high that theres just a real chance of it dropping orso16:03
DocScrutinizerwhat do you think we do?16:04
freemangordon:D16:04
Lava_Croftim on the road most of the day16:04
Lava_Croftdoing physical work16:04
Lava_Croftthat differs from a possible office job, for example16:04
freemangordonI dropped my first n900 several times, one of the on a concrete from about 2 meters16:04
DocScrutinizerI actually dropped my daily one two times. one time I accidentally stepped on it when trying to catch it with my foot while dropping16:04
Lava_Croftmy first fell down the stairwell16:04
Lava_Croftthen i gamed nokia care and got 2 n900s back16:05
Lava_Croftone thing did hurt16:05
Lava_Crofti broken the lens on my new n90016:05
Lava_Croft:<16:05
freemangordonseems you have to be more careful16:05
Lava_Croftnaw16:05
Lava_Croftthe broken lens was just bad luck16:06
Lava_Croftbunch of keys in my pocket pressed through the camera hatch16:06
Lava_Croftand broke the glass covering the lens16:06
Lava_Crofta true "what the fuck happened here" moment16:06
DocScrutinizerbroken lens can get fixed, whatever actually is broken for you16:06
Lava_Croftthe glass is split in two16:06
Lava_Croftbut still perfectly in place16:06
Lava_Crofti already switched to another n90016:07
DocScrutinizerso get a new case, they are like 20 bucks IIRC16:07
Lava_Croftin the future, maybe16:07
DocScrutinizerI'm searching for new N900 to purchase16:08
Lava_Croftbut, what i was trying to say16:08
DocScrutinizerif anybody heard sth16:08
Lava_Croftthe only thing the n9 has over the n900 for me, its being more sturdy16:08
Lava_Croftwell, i had a brand new one until a week ago orso, but now i dont anymore:<16:08
Lava_Croftits quite hard to find proper, new n900s16:08
Lava_Croftchina is also pooping out fake ones16:08
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, you still can buy one here in Bulgaria, with 1 year contract, for about 200 euros :p16:09
Lava_Croftdoc, you are in germany?16:09
DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: willing to get two for me?16:09
DocScrutinizerLava_Croft: yep16:09
Lava_CroftDocScrutinizer: ok, ill keep an eye out16:09
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, with a contract?16:09
Lava_Croftif i find a new one around here, in NL16:10
DocScrutinizerwhat kind of contract?16:10
Lava_Croftthe contract is the hidden cost of the n90016:10
freemangordonnormal contract with mobile provider16:10
Lava_Crofti got my first n900 with 2y vodafone contract16:10
DocScrutinizersure, how much to pay it wholesale?16:10
freemangordon1 year 15 euros per month, or something like that16:10
Lava_Croftnearly done with it16:10
Lava_Crofti dont know what kind of device to take next16:10
DocScrutinizerso16:10
Lava_Crofttheres about zero options16:11
freemangordonwithout contract it costs about 400 euros16:11
DocScrutinizer~15 * 12 + 20016:11
infobot38016:11
DocScrutinizerdeal16:11
Lava_Croft380 is still a bit steep16:11
DocScrutinizeryou can keep the contracts16:11
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, I don't need them :)16:11
Lava_Croft'open' has a serious price:<16:11
DocScrutinizerwell, then get me two without contract please16:12
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, will see what could be done16:12
Lava_Croftmeh16:13
Lava_Croftwhy are almost all n9's offered with contracts here the 16gb version16:13
Lava_Croftif not all16:13
DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: thanks16:13
Lava_Croftmaybe i should get no new device at all16:13
Lava_Croftand just wait for that Spark tablet thing16:13
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, it was my GF who told me that n900 is still available through vivacom, let me check if that is still true (in the upcomming week)16:14
DocScrutinizersure16:14
Lava_CroftDocScrutinizer: you dont buy used?16:15
Lava_Croftmost people i know just go with ebay n900s all the time16:15
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, http://www.vivacom.bg/en/residential/devices/section/mobile_phones/view/nokia_n900/offers16:16
DocScrutinizerLava_Croft: nope16:16
DocScrutinizersince OCers I don't want used ones any more16:17
DocScrutinizerand ebay is a PITA anyway16:17
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, but I cannot see the proce without a contract, will have to check in store16:17
freemangordon*price16:17
freemangordonBTW, I have no clue if one can offer that via internet, maybe it is possible, you can check if you wish16:19
DocScrutinizeroffer what?16:19
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freemangordonok, purchase :)16:20
DocScrutinizerI have a hard time with that site16:20
freemangordonwhy?16:20
DocScrutinizernfc what's BGN16:20
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, ISO currency code16:20
freemangordonjust like USD and EUR and GBP16:20
DocScrutinizercan you convert it to EUR for me?16:20
freemangordondivide with 216:21
DocScrutinizerooh16:21
DocScrutinizerso actually 200EUR?16:21
freemangordonBGN is Bulgarian new lev16:21
DocScrutinizerget me three please16:21
freemangordonyep16:21
freemangordonbut that is with contract, i need 3 people willing to sign it16:21
freemangordon;)16:21
freemangordonI need to go to store to check what is the price without contract16:22
DocScrutinizerI'd hope you can sign as many contracts as you like, when paying the full 24 months in advance16:22
freemangordonnope, you can't AFAIK16:22
freemangordonand I am not sure one can pre-pay16:23
freemangordonhave to check16:23
DocScrutinizeryeah, but they usually should sell the phone without contract as well16:23
freemangordonsure, but that is not listed on the site, have to check in store16:24
DocScrutinizerotherwise, how hard could it be to find 3 people willing to sign the contract when you pay all their expenses and allow them to keep the SIM and do with it whatever they like16:24
DocScrutinizer;-)16:25
freemangordonwell that will be hard, because the contracts are prolonged automatically, all stuff like that16:25
freemangordonand most of my close friends already have n900 with contract :D16:25
Lava_Croftmost of my close friends think my n900 is a magic device16:26
Lava_Croftsince it does everyyyyything16:26
DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: anyway if you culd make this happen, shadowjk and me would be really grateful16:27
freemangordonwell, almost everything, that is why I am keeping my GF around :D16:27
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, I will check16:28
freemangordonShould not be a problem16:28
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: ~200EUR16:28
ShadowJKnice16:28
freemangordonwell, without a contract it is around 40016:29
freemangordonAFAIK16:29
DocScrutinizerooh, I thought you were talking BGN or whatever it was16:29
ShadowJKwhat kind of keyboard does bg version have?16:30
freemangordonthe prices on the site are with contract, around 200 eur16:30
freemangordonnormal16:30
freemangordonenglish one16:30
DocScrutinizermhm16:30
ShadowJKah16:30
ShadowJK400-500 for a new one is ok for me16:30
freemangordonand it comes with 2 year warranty16:31
Lava_Croftwhich will be fun16:31
Lava_Croftclaiming warranty on an n900 these days is quite funny16:31
DocScrutinizerwell, for me too if there's no better option, but then I only need one for me and ShadowJK another one, so 2 not 316:31
Lava_Croftand will test your patience16:31
ShadowJKLava_Croft, Yeah I'm about to go through that16:31
Lava_CroftIve been through it16:31
Lava_Croftend result was 1 n900 more than i started with16:32
Lava_Croftbut its quite meh overall16:32
* ShadowJK is just now flashing his hot-spare N900 and preparing to move data to the spare N900 and get the broken N900, which has a year of warranty left, to service :P16:32
Lava_Croftthey will keep on trying to push you a different device16:32
Lava_Croftin my case, they started to up-talk Symbian Belle16:32
freemangordonLava_Croft, seems this mobile operator still has n900s on stock, so it would not be a problem to change it if something is not working16:32
Lava_Croftthese days i guess its all windows16:32
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Lava_Croftfreemangordon: the operator is not responsible for factory warranty16:33
Lava_Croftwhich is the 2y warranty (at least over here)16:33
Lava_Croftnokia is16:33
DocScrutinizerthey are responsible for legal warranty16:33
ShadowJKLast week an operator called me and tried to *sell* me Nokia E7 (Symbian Belle)16:33
freemangordonwell, it is here, you have a contract with mobile operator, not with Nokia ;)16:33
Lava_Croftnokia is responsible for the device here :|16:33
DocScrutinizerso as long as they got same device at stock, they can't give you a crappy hooker or anything16:34
Lava_Croftif i wanted to get a replacement device of the same type from my operator, i have to insure my n90016:34
Lava_Croftand pay a small monthly fee16:34
freemangordonLava_Croft, where do you live?16:34
Lava_Croftthe 2y factory warrantly that nokia has to take care of is rock-solid by law though16:34
Lava_Croftwhich is why in the end they had to cough up an n900 for me16:34
Lava_Croftfreemangordon: Netherlands16:34
freemangordonok16:34
Lava_Crofti started at my phonestore16:34
Lava_Croftto get a new one16:34
Lava_Croftbut they immediately send everything to nokia16:35
Lava_Croftin the end their knowledge of how to work Nokia Care was even less than  my knowledge, and initially my knowledge was zero16:35
DocScrutinizerthat's their problem then16:35
freemangordon:nod:16:35
Lava_Croftthats not how it works here, since i did not insure my n900:)16:35
Lava_Croftand the warranty is not the phonestore's problem, its Nokia's16:35
Lava_Croftit might be much easier if the warranty is taken care of by your store/operator16:36
DocScrutinizerin EU you got 2 years of warranty, which is at shop, not manuf16:36
freemangordonWell, I think Netherlands is in EU16:36
Lava_Croftit is16:36
freemangordon:p16:36
Lava_Croftbut for me as a customer, i only cared about a new n90016:37
Lava_Croftand like i said, my shop was horrible in being able to get me a new one16:37
DocScrutinizerof course shops tend to tell you to directly contact manuf, but legally they are responsible16:37
Lava_Croftin the end, my shop was one of two entities getting me a new n90016:37
Lava_Croftthe other one was nokia directly16:37
DocScrutinizerhehe16:38
Lava_Crofti did hold off the Nokia phonecall about the new (2nd) n900 for about a month16:38
freemangordonlucky you16:38
Lava_Croftbut the Nokia Care guy kept on calling 2 times a day16:38
Lava_Crofthe really, really wanted to get rid of that (in his eyes) shit n90016:38
Lava_Croftsometimes i still feel a bit guilty :)16:38
DocScrutinizernah, it's OK16:38
Lava_Croftsomewhere, some poor guy did not get his n90016:38
DocScrutinizer:-)16:38
Lava_Croftand is stuck using an awesome n8, like i was for several months16:39
DocScrutinizersomewhere in Finland some trashbin eventually will see one less brand new N90016:39
Lava_Croftyeah16:39
Lava_Croftthats what struck me the most16:39
Lava_Croftsending in my broken n900 to nokia only made them do one thing16:39
Lava_Croftlook at the accompanying note and then dump the package right away16:40
Lava_Croftn900 was already EOL at the time16:40
Lava_Croftthey just dump em:<16:40
DocScrutinizeryep16:40
Lava_Crofti was so angry16:40
Lava_Croftim one of those lifelong nokia customers, this was really unheard of16:40
freemangordonmerlin1991, ping16:43
amiconnMy N900 is my first nokia phone, and it looks like it will also be the last one16:53
jonwilMy N900 is my first Nokia phone and I have had nothing bad to say about Nokia Care or the customer service people16:54
jonwilThe only people I dont like at Nokia are the legal department and the upper management16:55
jonwilThen again, I doubt anyone in here likes the Nokia upper management for their "lets become a subsidiary of Microsoft but without all the legal and political hassle of actually being bought by Microsoft" decision16:56
jonwilIf Nokia was to make a phone that is as nice as the N900 (both in terms of hardware and in terms of hackability and openness of the software) I would have no qualms buying one16:57
Lava_Croftdumb finns ruined themselves16:57
jonwilbut I refuse to buy a phone (Windows Phone) where I have to pay money just to write software for the thing and run it on the real device16:58
jonwilSame reason I will not buy anything with a piece of fruit for a logo :)17:00
Lava_Crofti just need a gnu userland17:00
jonwilI too want my next phone to be a proper linux phone17:02
jonwiland not some half-baked derivitive (Android, WebOS)17:02
Lava_Croftits not about religion or anything for me, just ease of use17:03
jonwilbut I fear that manufacturers are unwilling to produce a proper linux phone where you can just write proper linux apps out of the box17:03
Lava_Croftthats not fear, thats reality17:03
Lava_Croft:\17:03
jonwilyeah17:03
jonwilAndroid is popular with carriers and OEMs because it can be locked down more than Linux can17:03
jonwiland because (for the most part) the license is fairly permissive so unlike the N900 which is full of GPL/LGPL packages, most Android phones have the kernel and little else thats GPL/LGPL17:05
Lava_Croftits just really annoying to have to download whatever crippled 'app' to do common stuff17:11
Lava_Croftno, not annoying, its just fucked up17:11
jonwilthe #1 reason I like the n900 is that there is a nice repo full of cool software for it, all of it free (and much of it open source)17:12
Lava_Crofti like it because it runs just about all the same software that i am used to running17:13
jonwilThere are some packages (games for one) that for various reasons aren't really suited to the N900 IMO :)17:17
jonwilOpenTTD for one (hard to play without a mouse and also not really suited to a phone because leaving it running long enough to let the simulation do what it needs to would drain the battery)17:19
javispedroit works ages better on the n900 than on the n95017:22
javispedrofscking capacitive17:22
jonwilthe battery life is still a killer though :P17:24
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javispedronah, overrated17:24
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javispedroyes, it will not last more than 24h17:24
javispedrobut it is also not going to empty itself in 3 which is what happens when you leave with screen on and full CPU :)17:25
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DocScrutinizeralso on andridiot I guess17:27
DocScrutinizeractually battery life of iPhone as well as andoid is on par with N900 when those are doing same ballpark on duties like the N90017:28
* ShadowJK remembers playing openttd on a P3-733Mhz, and running out of cpu power17:28
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fw190hello17:29
DocScrutinizerthe point why everybody percieves those had way better battery standby tmes is just because the concept is really not what I'd like to have, regarding true multitasking and always-online17:29
fw190is it possible to do this in CSSU http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1155925&postcount=1917:29
javispedroDocScrutinizer: on andridiot you cannot even let the simulation run when the screen is off17:31
javispedrobecause screen off = suspend17:31
javispedrosome people think that is better.17:31
javispedroI utterly and completely disagree.17:31
DocScrutinizerfw190: umm, hardly17:31
ShadowJKdoes that mean if I have an android device with an IRC client, I disappear from irc whne screen is off?17:31
DocScrutinizerI can't see the benefit of ofono anyway17:31
javispedroShadowJK: suspend does not necessarily kill the connection, and it might e.g. setup an alarm to be periodically reawakened17:32
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: exactly17:32
javispedroShadowJK: but all these are tricks the application should be implementing17:32
javispedroShadowJK: by default, it dies17:32
ShadowJKOnce you put ofono on it, essentially the entire phone and 3g functionality stops working and has to be written from scratch again?17:32
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: sure, at least that's what I understood about it. ofono is orthogonal to what er got right now17:33
DocScrutinizers/ er/ we/17:33
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: ShadowJK: sure, at least that's what I understood about it. ofono is orthogonal to what we got right now17:33
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yep, agree on all of above17:34
jonwilToo many pieces of closed source software would need to be rewritten for ofono to be usable17:35
ShadowJKWhat about the browser, does it stop loading pages if I switch off screen and put it in my pocket17:35
DocScrutinizerand to what aim?17:35
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: probably17:35
jonwilyeah I dont think replacing the cellular services daemon is necessary17:36
javispedroShadowJK: yes17:36
javispedroand the worst part? that is how wp7 works too17:36
DocScrutinizeresp since ofono also seems dead now, much like fremantle or meego17:36
ShadowJKjavispedro, how annoying. It's one of my biggest use cases during the week :)17:36
javispedroit has always been here17:37
javispedroon maemo/meego I usually launch 3 or 4 apps and start using the first one to load17:37
javispedrothe only other platform I know where this is possible is webOS17:37
jonwilreally the only issues are 1 or 2 bugs in it (like the bug I fixed with the binary patch in my cbsms widget) and 1 or 2 features that might be nice to have in theory17:38
javispedroand they're messing up already  -- e.g. the browser seems not to start loading pages in the background unless you make it into the foreground at least once17:38
ShadowJKI have short intervals of free time throughout the working day. Usually I have like a news front page open, and open all the articles I'm interested in, in new windows. Then switch off screen and put n900 in pocket while the pages are loading17:39
DocScrutinizer:nod:17:39
Lava_Crofti constantly open and close opera17:39
DocScrutinizerobvious downside: any crappy flash or JS on a website can cut thru your battery in no time, even while device is on screen-off idle mode17:40
fw190if offono is dead maemo is dead tizen is in foog then what is alive? :)17:40
Lava_Croftjust dont use flash17:40
ShadowJKNah, microb can pause javascript after a user defined timeout :P17:40
* ShadowJK has it set to 60 seconds, seems most pages load far enough in that time17:41
DocScrutinizerfw190: CSSU is alive17:41
DocScrutinizer:-)17:41
MohammadAGand kicking17:41
Lava_Croftand updating soon?17:41
* Lava_Croft chuckles17:41
* MohammadAG kicks Lava_Croft 17:41
* Lava_Croft screeches17:41
fw190hahahaah this is one good news in my shity life - thaht you people still have time to work on it17:42
* jonwil thinks there are bits of Maemo that would be nice to have replacements for and the cellular services daemon is one one of the things we should target17:42
jonwilis not one17:42
jonwilI just wish I had the skills to tackle things like the closed hildon-input-method bits, wlan stuff (libicd-network-wlan etc), browser UI and systemui stuff :(17:45
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merlin1991freemangordon: pong19:33
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SpacedOutPali: Thanks for packaging up a newer fennec not too long ago, the previous one didn't support IPv6, this one does.20:38
PaliSpacedOut, I created it because only mozilla deleted their last version from their mozilla repository20:39
SpacedOutJust the same the version I downloaded didn't work with IPv6 and this one did, thanks.20:40
Paliupdating to other new version should be simple (change only debian/changelog and debian/rules to use other upstream tarball)20:40
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freemangordonmerlin1991, several packages shoult be ready for "devel" repo21:00
freemangordon*should21:00
freemangordonnamely clutter, ke-recv and libhildonfm21:00
freemangordonon the other hand arcean's MR fir hildon-desktop is still not pushed21:01
freemangordonMohammadAG, merlin1991 ^^^21:01
merlin1991freemangordon: looking into the mr today21:01
merlin1991what about libhildonfm?21:02
freemangordonsee the commit21:05
freemangordonit is related to ke-recv fixes21:05
freemangordonwithout this sdcard partitions appear with icon for internal in filemanager21:06
freemangordon(excludin vfat partition)21:06
freemangordonPali, filemanager freezes only when called through dbus call21:19
Palifreemangordon, filemanager is freezed or some hildon/osso/fm library?21:20
freemangordonseems to happen only when the device is not mounted reliably21:20
freemangordonNFC21:20
freemangordonbut if you open it through dbus call with parameter to open newly mounted device it freezes, could be some timing issue21:21
Paliinstall dbg symbols and attach gdb to osso filemanager21:22
freemangordonPali, the only device I can test is my second n900, not a comfortable way to debug :)21:22
Paliok21:23
freemangordonanyway, it looks like hang in some system call, waiting forever for open or something21:23
freemangordonso it might be in libhildonfm as well, somewhere in the code trying to get device information21:24
freemangordonmaybe some O_NONBLOCK should be added21:25
merlin1991MohammadAG: ping21:33
MohammadAGpong21:34
merlin1991you still have to request membership of https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cssu21:35
MohammadAGmerlin1991, done21:35
freemangordonmerlin1991, speaking of garage, todo list is still empty :)21:36
merlin1991freemangordon: it's on my todo for today21:36
freemangordon:D21:36
freemangordongreat21:36
merlin1991I have to adaüt silly loadprofile export for some company project and after that I'm going to work on cssu stuff21:36
merlin1991s/adaüt/adapt/21:37
infobotmerlin1991 meant: I have to adapt silly loadprofile export for some company project and after that I'm going to work on cssu stuff21:37
merlin1991and hopefully still find some time afterwards to play a lil me3 :)21:37
freemangordonme3?21:37
merlin1991mass effect 321:37
freemangordonwhich reminds me to check what the hell is going on with episode 321:38
merlin1991what do you mean?21:38
freemangordonhl221:38
freemangordonhalf life 2 episode 3 was expected to be ready by the end of 2009 AFAIK :)21:40
freemangordonsomething lik duke nukem forever21:40
merlin1991hehe valve21:40
freemangordonyeah21:40
merlin1991hopefully it doesn't end like the duke21:40
merlin1991the result that finally came out was soooooo bad21:40
merlin1991okay MohammadAG you're an admin now too21:42
merlin1991btw we have DocScrutinizer as admin there in case we both get hit by a bus ;)21:42
DocScrutinizeryeah21:42
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Sicelo\o/21:51
MohammadAGwhat if god forbid all 3 of us got hit21:52
MohammadAGor worse, what if it's the apocalypse, who'll maintain the project then?21:52
SiceloGod21:53
Sicelo:D21:53
MohammadAGwfm21:53
javispedrogod uses tizen22:00
RST38hWhich god?22:00
javispedronot mine for obvious reasons22:01
javispedrothe one over the next door, I dunno.22:01
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DocScrutinizerlol22:59
DocScrutinizeranyway, merlin1991 you noticed the mails of garage are pretty fsckdup regarding the URL which has a "." at end which doesn't belong there?23:00
merlin1991it does not belong into the url23:00
merlin1991but it belongs to the sentence :D23:00
DocScrutinizeryeah23:00
merlin1991You can blablab here URL.23:01
merlin1991Thunderbird does not include the . in the clickable url :)23:01
DocScrutinizerhttps://garage.maemo.org/project/admin/?group_id=2300.    An error occured in the logger. ERROR: invalid input syntax for integer: "2300."23:01
merlin1991hehe even my irc client doe not pick up that . :D23:02
merlin1991though I bet there are valid cases for that .23:02
merlin1991which would break then23:02
DocScrutinizerwell, a parameter after "?" might easily need a dot at end23:04
merlin1991well url parsing within test tends to be quite odd23:04
merlin1991s/test/text/23:04
infobotmerlin1991 meant: well url parsing within text tends to be quite odd23:04
DocScrutinizereven things like URLBLABLA/?char=. are likely23:04
merlin1991sure23:05
merlin1991it's always a problem if you inline a artificial 'language' into common text23:06
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