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| DocScrutinizer | funny enough most problems of CSSU when it comes to "downgrade" are actually caused by *packages* that never should've dealt with in CSSU first instance | 05:06 |
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| fatphil | DocScrutinizer - what can be done about that though? ^^^ | 10:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | we need to kick some packages out of CSSU, like e.g camera-ui. It clearly belongs into extras-repo, not CSSU | 10:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | the assumed mutual exclusiveness is just artificial | 10:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ther still will be no proper way to "downgrade" from CSSU, but otoh you maybe don't want to then | 10:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | if offering a way to users for them to install/replace_"upgrade" a whole bunch of apps, like mediaplayer, camera-ui, whatnot, there are simply methods like a one-click install done via an install file. Or a shell script with apt cmds. No need to weld and rivet those apps to CSSU core which clearly is about fixing things (or delivering patches for other inarguable purposes) that otherwise couldn't get delivered to users at all | 10:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | see for example modified hildon desktop, that is *needed* for fixing a bug that eats your battery, and also has some nice improvements feature wise, and clearly there's no sane way to ship this thing as a normal app via extras-repo | 10:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | most if not all of those criteria don't apply to things like camera-ui or mediaplayer | 10:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | even if e.g. mediaplayer couldn't get delivered via normal package repos (extras) and would need CSSU to get installed (I.E. depends on other CSSU properties), it still seems sane to have it as a normal app installable via HAM from CSSU repo, not as a core app that is mandatory to install when you enable CSSU | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | in the end we don't want to fork with CSSU, we want to continue on maemo mainstream where Nokia stopped | 10:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | in simple words: CSSU is not an alternative distro to stock maemo - it's an addon that improves stock maemo while keeping it compatible to hypothetical future Nokia updates to PR-X.Y as much as possible | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | there shouldn't be any apps that need CSSU to work - at least for now (no showstopper bugs seen so far) | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | if those apps don't need CSSU, this means they shall be available for 'normal' users, via 'normal' repositories and install measures. Which in turn precludes them from going into CSSU | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | IOW cssu is not the progressive radical division of extras-devel | 11:05 |
| fatphil | I'm glad to hear you say that, that's my feeling too | 11:18 |
| fatphil | The only issue is how to replace system defaults. You want camera-cssu-ui to be be launched rather than camera-ui when you slide the shutter, for example | 11:19 |
| fatphil | I don't know how to change those defaults | 11:19 |
| fatphil | and if that's not possible, that's a feature that CSSU could provide | 11:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's dead simple for camera-ui, I elaborated on it in #maemo, wait a minute and let me find a URL for you | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-06-19.log.html#t2011-06-19T05:27:49 plus next ~40min | 11:32 |
| fatphil | coo, thanks | 11:33 |
| fatphil | ah, yeah, I don't consider setting symlinks to be setting a default, that's simply subverting the defaults | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's as much of "setting default camera app" as it gets | 11:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | you could ship a simple GUI to tweak that symlink with every arbitrary alternative camera UI, like CSSUcam, blessN900, fcam | 11:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | or maybe you prefer the firefox style of having a "make this your default camera app" menu item in your camera menu | 11:47 |
| fatphil | who handles the camera slide? how does it know to launch 'camera-ui'? | 11:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | no way however this should get set as default cam on mere installation of CSSU | 11:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | camera-ui gets prelaunched hidden at boot, and afaik it monitors for camdoor slide by itself | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't ask me how shortcutd/cambuttond work | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | otoh those might be unrelated to camera at all, as they monitor cam trigger button only when camera-ui isn't activated, so maybe they both just stop monitoring the button as soon as camdoor is open | 11:52 |
| fatphil | cam button and slide are GPIOs IIRC (it's been too long), so are not handled the same way as the volume keys or keypad. | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, simple GPIO | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | or switches in /sys namespace | 11:54 |
| fatphil | kernel's changed so much since .28 I can't find how that GPIO value change gets signalled to userspace | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | find /sys -name state | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_shutter/state | 11:55 |
| fatphil | dang, gpio-switch, yeah, I remember that now | 11:55 |
| fatphil | mce | 11:56 |
| fatphil | so, mce then tells someone else about the change in state | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | either camera-ui process is monitoring that itself, or it's part of ke-recv monitoring /sys via kevents and then sending a dbus event to signal about the state change | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, *maybe* mce | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I'd expect that to be ke-recv | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | any process can use kevents signalling though | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | hulda another one | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | might actually be hulda | 11:58 |
| fatphil | hald also seems to be listening to that sysfs file | 11:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# lsof|grep cam_shutter | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | mce 807 root 18r REG 0,0 4096 3995 /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_shutter/state | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | hald-addo 846 haldaemon 15r REG 0,0 4096 3995 /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_shutter/state | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, we got same idea, eh? :-) | 12:01 |
| fatphil | yeah. however, it doesn't tell us exactly who knows that 'camera-ui' should be launched | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | however NB it's supposed you do NOT poll this sysnode, but rather wait for kevents notifying you about a state change | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | as mentioned above, camera-ui *is* already launched | 12:03 |
| fatphil | I think it's safe to poll() it | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | just hidden | 12:03 |
| fatphil | yeah, not launch - signal it to come to the front | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | poll() isn't exactly poll aiui ;-) | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | my bet is on dbus | 12:03 |
| fatphil | there's so much confusion about polling and poll()ing, indeed. | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | dbus-monitor <CR> [[open slide]] <^c> | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | I#d love to have a dirt simple cmdline binary that poll()'s a file as given as parameter and returns when poll() returns | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | (I know I probably should be able to build such thing by myself in 30min, probably less) | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway I'm not convinced poll() will work for sysfs - inotify doesn't | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | ke-recv (Kernel Events - RECeiVe) though looks self explanatory by name, and obviously works | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | fatphil: if you'd like to do a little hacker's warmup fancy at sunday morning, and test if you can build a fsckng simple cmdline tool that returns wehn slider sysfs changes, I'd appreciate a lot | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | would be mad useful for a lot of things around camera, bme and charger handling, whatnot else | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | accelerometer and the madness done in meego... | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | sysfs-monitor /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_shutter/state | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 12:15 |
| fatphil | DocScrutinizer - perl will hapily poll() a file for you. it's a bit heavyweight though | 12:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, I'm a complete perl noob | 12:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | strace tail -f /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_shutter/state | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | inotify and read() fail | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | couldn't think of anything doing a poll() | 12:20 |
| fatphil | yeah there are special functions for sysfs | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | sysfs always returns something then EOF | 12:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | kevents is meant to deal with sysfs | 12:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/networking/kevent | 12:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm almost temped to hack sth in python: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=blob;f=framework/subsystems/odeviced/kernel26.py;h=5f0f33feef1a05b7f53dd2bd7baf786bcff0381a;hb=89ee765b998b18a692d514b982a2250f5a73958d#l237 | 12:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | as I'm not sure the implementation of udevadm is easily adapted to what I need | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think the class of events is slightly different there in udevadm than it needs to be for kevents | 12:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | weird enough such a simple kevents monitoring tool doesn't exist yet - or maybe I just don't know it | 12:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is what vala does: | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | fd = Posix.socket( Linux.Socket.AF_NETLINK, Posix.SOCK_DGRAM, Linux.Netlink.NETLINK_KOBJECT_UEVENT ); | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | watch = channel.add_watch( IOCondition.IN | IOCondition.HUP, onActionFromSocket ); | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | oops forgot: channel = new IOChannel.unix_new( fd ); | 12:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | NETLINK_KOBJECT_UEVENT Kernel messages to userspace. <<< accoding to man 7 netlink | 12:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so the correct name seems kobject_uevent, not kevent or a mere uevent - just as we had a discussion about it some weeks ago | 12:46 |
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