| wmarone | given the resources available via MeeGo (video, open source phone stack) I think the only limiting factor os people's desire to make it work | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| trbs | s/our/your/ | 00:00 |
| wmarone | s/os/is/ | 00:00 |
| trbs | True oss bits in meego help | 00:02 |
| trbs | thinking about these thinks always gives me that 'there is not enough time in a day' feeling :) | 00:03 |
| trbs | hopefully when my current project at work ends i'll have some more spare time to give helpen cssu a go | 00:04 |
| trbs | till then i'll be idling here :) | 00:04 |
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| Sc0rpius | ok let's see | 01:44 |
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| Sc0rpius | I insist | 03:12 |
| Sc0rpius | the more I read Modest code, the more I understand why it sucks and why everybody hates it | 03:12 |
| Sc0rpius | I'm an inch to just port the Thunderbird engine with a nice Qt GUI and that's it. | 03:12 |
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| ruskie | Sc0rpius, tbird isn't much better | 10:05 |
| ruskie | try claws-mail or something... with a touch friendly UI ;) | 10:05 |
| ruskie | so any chance of the community ssu actually getting a more sane FHS compliant root setup done? | 10:06 |
| ruskie | and support for fstab and such like... | 10:07 |
| Jaffa | ruskie: Only if someone did the work and it didn't break anything. | 11:23 |
| Jaffa | The rootfs is FHS compliant, AFAICT. Even the usage of /opt is. | 11:24 |
| Jaffa | (IIRC) | 11:24 |
| Jaffa | ruskie: osso-mail was based on Sylpheed. It was shit too. | 11:24 |
| Jaffa | Sc0rpius: Worth starting a page on wiki.maemo.org about Modest problems? Maybe people could tackle them one by one... | 11:25 |
| ruskie | Jaffa, erm.. rootfs isn't FHS complaint... | 11:26 |
| ruskie | I can't offload /usr to emmc | 11:26 |
| ruskie | breaks boot | 11:26 |
| ruskie | since things in /bin depend on things in /usr | 11:26 |
| ruskie | libs specifically | 11:26 |
| ruskie | believe me I tried this often enough... it worked with 1.0 | 11:27 |
| ruskie | after that it just broke... | 11:27 |
| ruskie | adding fstab should be a simple modification of the init scripts... auto mounting would need to be modified a bit(and possibly simplified as well)... | 11:28 |
| ruskie | I can try and do some of that work since I already had it done atleast a few times on each release... | 11:28 |
| ruskie | the final ideal for me would be to be able to boot it like a normal desktop/server system where I can have different partitions for /usr /var /home /opt ... thus reducing the overall load on / | 11:31 |
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| lardman | who knows about .install files? | 12:27 |
| MohammadAG | just ask :p | 12:28 |
| lardman | righty-ho | 12:28 |
| lardman | Someone submitted a patch to mBarcode to handle apt: uris, but it assumes that the catalogue will be Extras, I'd prefer to implement the whole "standard" shown here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptUrl | 12:29 |
| lardman | the question is, can .install files both add catalogues and install packages? I think so, but are there any docs anywhere? | 12:30 |
| MohammadAG | yes, they can | 12:34 |
| MohammadAG | see the CSSU .install file, that's what it does | 12:34 |
| ruskie | are there any repos for the init scripts and stuff already? or something else? | 12:38 |
| MohammadAG | the default repos I guess | 12:40 |
| lardman | presumably one can add existing repos to the .install file and it just ignores them? | 12:41 |
| lardman | also, can install files install multiple packages? | 12:41 |
| * lardman searches for some docs, but install is not a good search phrase ;) | 12:42 | |
| MohammadAG | lardman, if the repo exists, it ignores it and installs the app | 12:44 |
| MohammadAG | this is what the ovi store does | 12:44 |
| lardman | yeah thought so | 12:44 |
| lardman | and for multiple packages? | 12:44 |
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| lardman | does HAM do anything with Recommends? | 12:57 |
| MohammadAG | shows them in details I think | 12:58 |
| lardman | hmm ok, I really need some circular deps | 12:58 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Some docs under http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/ | 13:26 |
| Jaffa | lardman: More specifically, http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/install-devel.html | 13:26 |
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| Jaffa | ruskie: Anyway, no - I don't imagine anyone will do the work unless it scratches some fundamental itch of theirs because of the risk of breakage. | 13:27 |
| ruskie | Jaffa, well as said I'm willing to work on it as I already did it on my device N times(each time I reflashed)... | 13:35 |
| ruskie | just need to know where the source repo that I should work against is so I can actually do stuff that others can then check on how it works for them... | 13:37 |
| Jaffa | ruskie: The question is what packages does it require importing into http://gitorious.org/community-ssu | 13:37 |
| Jaffa | ruskie: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Development | 13:37 |
| ruskie | thanks | 13:40 |
| ruskie | I'll look around... | 13:40 |
| ruskie | I might not get a gitoirous account though... depends on their privacy policy and so on... | 13:40 |
| lardman | thanks Jaffa | 13:43 |
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| mardy | thp, MohammadAG: I commented on gitorious about the latest H-D commits (in case you haven't e-mail notifications activated) | 14:05 |
| MohammadAG | mardy, he's working on getting it configurable afaik | 14:06 |
| mardy | MohammadAG: ok. IIRC, at some stage during the development we had it like this, but then it was decided to change | 14:15 |
| mardy | MohammadAG: but I don't know if it was because of some technical issue, or UI designers' preferences | 14:15 |
| MohammadAG | mardy, you're an h-d dev? | 14:20 |
| mardy | MohammadAG: no, I worked on the presence status applet, IM accounts configuration and the Telepathy mission-control daemon | 14:22 |
| MohammadAG | ah, nice to have you in here :) | 14:24 |
| thp | MohammadAG: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager/merge_requests/1 | 14:33 |
| MohammadAG | mardy, just wondering, is there any change we could get those updated without open sourcing them? | 14:33 |
| MohammadAG | thp, cool! | 14:35 |
| mardy | MohammadAG: good question... but I'm afraid I'm not allowed to | 14:36 |
| * Jaffa responds to mardy's comment about configurability | 14:44 | |
| thp | mardy, Jaffa: i'll make a configurable patch out of it, no problem :) | 14:58 |
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| mardy | thp: as I just commented on gitorious, the rotation on the Z axis is beautiful if accompanied by fading | 15:01 |
| thp | lol @ hd_comp_mgr_is_portrait () ? CLUTTER_Z_AXIS : CLUTTER_Z_AXIS ;) | 15:02 |
| Jaffa | mardy: Fading to black as it reaches 45 deg and then fading back up from black to 90? | 15:02 |
| mardy | Jaffa: no, fading with the new layout. But I'm not sure this is possible at all in maemo5 | 15:04 |
| thp | ideally, both should be intersected, as in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWtMLs3j09U#t=25 | 15:04 |
| mardy | Jaffa: that is, you compute the new layout early, ideally before starting the rotation | 15:04 |
| thp | i think that's how it's done right now (take screenshot, rotate that, then black, then rotate in the live image) | 15:05 |
| thp | you can see that when hooking up the device to a charger, setting the rotation to ~ 2000 msec and watching the battery indicator animation | 15:05 |
| thp | (except if it's just locking screen updates, but it should result in the same behavior | 15:05 |
| Jaffa | mardy: as thp's MeeGo Handset video shows? | 15:05 |
| mardy | Jaffa: yes | 15:06 |
| mardy | actually, I wonder if it's really worth to beautify or implement new features for maemo5 | 15:07 |
| mardy | it might be better to only address major issues, and concentrate more on MeeGo | 15:07 |
| Jaffa | mardy: Beautifying and implementing new features in Maemo 5 is, until MeeGo's future becomes more certain, far more beneficial IMHO | 15:08 |
| Jaffa | There's hardware in people's hands. A base OS with a good set of applications. Decent performance and the benefits of the new Qt SDKs | 15:08 |
| MohammadAG | I'm with Jaffa on this one | 15:10 |
| MohammadAG | MeeGo on the N900 is far from ready | 15:10 |
| thp | i also agree with Jaffa. of course, things might change if Harmattan becomes open source now, and it is usable, but so far, maemo 5 is the best we have | 15:11 |
| Per_n900 | Maybe that would change if you guys helped out with meego? Maemo WILL die, eventually people will leave or their devices will break. | 15:11 |
| thp | Per_n900: meego reference ux < maemo 5 (from a ux perspective) | 15:11 |
| thp | Per_n900: harmattan compared to maemo 5 is unknown, as it's not released | 15:12 |
| thp | ..and tweaking maemo 5 is much easier than rebuilding everything in meego. | 15:12 |
| mardy | thp: what libs is the game in the video written in? | 15:14 |
| thp | that rabbit game? qt + qgraphicsview | 15:14 |
| thp | with some qtmobility sprinkled in for accelerometer input | 15:15 |
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| MohammadAG | thp, hmm, need to update the HAM repo | 15:17 |
| MohammadAG | I just noticed that a branch is used for the one in PR1.3 | 15:17 |
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| thp | so, should z axis rotation be default now or optional? | 15:29 |
| thp | i've made it configurable through transitions.ini, and it's even "live" (you don't need to restart hd for the changes to take effect) | 15:30 |
| thp | i'm making it off by default; for the first CSSU, we can still update transitions.ini and enable it if we want to | 15:42 |
| thp | "first CSSU" -> "first stable CSSU" | 15:42 |
| thp | MohammadAG, Jaffa, mardy: updated merge request, please have a look and comment: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-desktop/merge_requests/3 | 15:45 |
| mardy | thp: I just _suspected_ that it could look bad, but I didn't see it. If it looks fine, I've no objections | 15:45 |
| mardy | thp: what about timing? Does it take longer now to rotate? | 15:46 |
| thp | i think so, but overall it feels faster | 15:46 |
| thp | also, z axis rotation avoids creating the black overlay, so that might speed up things a bit | 15:46 |
| thp | it "feels" faster.. | 15:47 |
| mardy | thp: mmm... I cannot find the parent commit... I cannot find the part which contains the comment "Add the actor we use to dim out the screen" | 15:54 |
| thp | mardy: http://gitorious.org/~thp/community-ssu/thps-hildon-desktop | 15:55 |
| thp | i did a force push, so you might need to refetch | 15:55 |
| thp | (yes, that's not good practice, but i figured that it's okay in my "private" repo) | 15:56 |
| thp | this part was completely removed in my first patch, but now i'm leaving it in | 15:56 |
| mardy | thp: it's OK, I'm just using the web interface now | 15:56 |
| mardy | thp: wrote one comment: the code is already very complicated, it would be easier if we split it more into separate functions | 15:59 |
| mardy | thp: especially when it's easy to isolate the changes, like in this case | 16:00 |
| thp | anybody knows where the code is that forces landscape mode in the home (desktop)? | 16:17 |
| Jaffa | Per_n900: Anyway, it's easy to hack on Maemo 5 now as we can coordinate in the open - something Nokia never did. Doing random hacks on MeeGo UX would probably be rejected as not conformant to the UI Standards ;-) | 16:17 |
| mardy | thp: I would think that, on the contrary, there isn't any code to allow it :-) | 16:19 |
| Jaffa | thp: thinking that hildon-home could render the right hand of the screen under the left hand? | 16:21 |
| Jaffa | thp: With suitable modifications to what it does with the background | 16:21 |
| Jaffa | thp: Then anything straggling the border is the user's problem... | 16:21 |
| thp | Jaffa: first of all, i just want to have "auto-rotation everywhere" and see what works and what does not. we can then incrementally fix issues such as homescreen widgets not being visible | 16:22 |
| thp | at least for the task switcher, I can imagine that we could just resize the "scroll area" and relayout the whole thing (as it is at the moment with the single-column or two-column tweak, just some more logic for resizing | 16:23 |
| thp | this is my current brute-force auto-rotation patch, which works for all apps, but not in switcher/launcher/home: http://thp.io/2011/maemo/hd_portrait_forcer.patch | 16:24 |
| Jaffa | thp: Should there be support for a blacklist? | 16:24 |
| Jaffa | thp: e.g. media player, calendar, Hermes (cos of the launch screen), ... | 16:25 |
| thp | after trying things out, i think we should whitelist official (closed) apps only | 16:25 |
| thp | because games that don't set any portrait flags expect to be landscape-only | 16:25 |
| thp | and for open source apps, we can just patch in portrait flags (as in the HAM example) | 16:25 |
| Jaffa | thp: OK, agreed. | 16:26 |
| thp | interestingly, the contacts app already relayouts itself for portrait (photo of contact moves to the top) | 16:26 |
| Jaffa | Contacts seems to work really well in portrait (with a quick Ctrl-Shift-R test) | 16:27 |
| thp | calculator is an example where we can't really have portrait mode in its current state ;) | 16:28 |
| Jaffa | File Manager seems OK, but the "Share" dialogue gets the repeated button bug that affected Modest | 16:29 |
| thp | that's a themeing issue | 16:31 |
| thp | and actually it's gone if you rotate to landscape and then back to portrait (while the dialog is still open) | 16:31 |
| MohammadAG | <thp> because games that don't set any portrait flags expect to be landscape-only | 16:36 |
| MohammadAG | angry birds does :P | 16:36 |
| MohammadAG | I was surprised tbh | 16:36 |
| thp | what? it sets portrait supported or not supported? | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | not supported, but doing forced rotation on it relays everything properly | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | s/relays/lays out/ | 16:37 |
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| MohammadAG | thp, I'm assuming the patch is against h-d before the old merge request right? | 16:41 |
| Per_n900 | Jaffa: That is true. | 16:41 |
| Jaffa | Per_n900: For example, Nokia never merged the "provide proper, standard's compliant quoting" in Modest. But the CSSU has. | 16:41 |
| Per_n900 | Jaffa, I am not dissing CSSU at all, I just feel kind of sad about the fact that all the work beeing done here will die with the n900, thats all. But I see your point, and yes Maemo is the best we got. | 16:45 |
| thp | "Switch to tasw when we've really exited portarit mode." | 16:46 |
| MohammadAG | who said it'll die? | 16:47 |
| MohammadAG | hildon-desktop runs on desktops | 16:47 |
| Per_n900 | MohammadAG, do you still like the mer2 idea? Or whas that not you who said that, hmm... Not sure. | 16:49 |
| MohammadAG | it was me | 16:49 |
| Jaffa | ? | 16:50 |
| MohammadAG | rewriting closed bits | 16:51 |
| ruskie | ++ | 16:51 |
| Jaffa | Below the app level? | 16:54 |
| MohammadAG | mce and bme are out of the question, too hard to cover all bits they do | 16:59 |
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| mirr0r | I think you guys are doing an awesome job with CSSU! Thanks! | 18:50 |
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