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| sicelo_ | good evening | 21:20 |
|---|---|---|
| eLtMosen | Hi Sicelo, good evening! | 21:21 |
| *** sicelo_ is now known as sicelo | 21:21 | |
| eLtMosen | If there is sth. to discuss, i will keep the minutes here: https://piratenpad.de/p/Meeting_Minutes_45-2017_Maemo_Community_Council | 21:21 |
| sicelo | thank you | 21:22 |
| sicelo | i was panicking earlier today when my N900 wouldn't open some important EPUBs | 21:23 |
| sicelo | then i found i had only 9MB remaining in rootfs | 21:23 |
| eLtMosen | same problem might arise on sailfish one day, sfosx rootfs is rather small too | 21:24 |
| eLtMosen | did you manage to resize? | 21:25 |
| sicelo | is it in Fixed-size NAND like N900 though? | 21:25 |
| eLtMosen | no, it can be resized. how did you solve on n900 then? | 21:27 |
| sicelo | didn't need to resize - turned out that around Saturday, i mistakenly rsynced a video to /root/MyDocs | 21:27 |
| eLtMosen | geez :D | 21:28 |
| sicelo | hehe | 21:28 |
| eLtMosen | my fail of the day was need needing 5 of 6 screenprotector foils until i got it fitting right on xperiax. lol | 21:29 |
| sicelo | :-p | 21:30 |
| eLtMosen | the 2.5D curved glass makes it really hard to center. But now it is very nice with mate anti reflection | 21:31 |
| sicelo | you're running SFOS on it? | 21:32 |
| eLtMosen | yessa | 21:32 |
| eLtMosen | it. is. awe. some. | 21:32 |
| sicelo | nice. i've yet to experience sfos. i should look at possibility to run it in a VM on PC maybe | 21:34 |
| eLtMosen | Telephony mail/message features are still superior on n9/n900 tho | 21:35 |
| sicelo | interesting! not when many users consider N900 telephony a toy | 21:36 |
| eLtMosen | so, do not expect too much :D | 21:37 |
| sicelo | :-) | 21:37 |
| sicelo | but i am looking forward to what will come out of maemo-leste | 21:38 |
| eLtMosen | i am biased and easy to impress, frankly. | 21:38 |
| sicelo | in connection with meeting items - i wanted to recheck when our term ends - we might have to start making preparations | 21:42 |
| eLtMosen | right, according to current rules we are already late, nomiation should start mid november? | 21:49 |
| eLtMosen | nomiation was 2017/05/01 to 2017/05/23, voting 2017/06/01 to 2017/06/07 results declared 07/11 | 21:53 |
| eLtMosen | Some users asked to extend the voting period from one week to two weeks because they missed it. | 21:59 |
| sicelo | mmm, i seem to remember the other option/suggestion was to send a few more reminders during the election period | 22:00 |
| sicelo | extending voting period needs referendum before it can be implemented | 22:01 |
| sicelo | https://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process | 22:01 |
| eLtMosen | right. to much hassle | 22:01 |
| sicelo | what is the 'election date' :-) | 22:03 |
| sicelo | is it the date on which voting starts? | 22:03 |
| sicelo | or when results come out? | 22:03 |
| eLtMosen | voting is the process, election the "result"? so end date 01/11 | 22:05 |
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| eLtMosen | hmm... we would fulfill both if we set start of voting process to 2017/12/01 but that is quite short notice for nomination now | 22:06 |
| eLtMosen | and between end of voting process and official election result post was a 3 weeks gap last time? | 22:08 |
| sicelo | that was a mistake of course | 22:09 |
| sicelo | nominations should be 2 weeks as per ules | 22:10 |
| sicelo | *rules | 22:10 |
| sicelo | and election date must be announced at least 1 month before. that's the date i'm wondering about | 22:11 |
| eLtMosen | Ok, the rule says we need to have the next election 6 month after the last, so 12/01 election date is manadtory, no matter when results where anonced | 22:12 |
| eLtMosen | election date = start of 1 week voting period | 22:13 |
| eLtMosen | we should start nomination pase not later then next week then | 22:14 |
| eLtMosen | *phase | 22:14 |
| eLtMosen | bang, i am slow. we already missed to announce by one week if we take it striktly by the rules | 22:16 |
| sicelo | yes | 22:16 |
| eLtMosen | alright. we should do now :D | 22:17 |
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| eLtMosen | it is more important to keep the 1 month notification so i propose to shift election start to 12/07 or any day after that | 22:19 |
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| eLtMosen | and announce accordingly right today or tomorrow | 22:20 |
| sicelo | i think that's correct. if notification period is too short, we would underserve the elections | 22:22 |
| sicelo | i also wonder how the holiday season will affect elections | 22:22 |
| eLtMosen | abreviating from the last election i guess it will not mater much | 22:25 |
| eLtMosen | more important is the nomination phase! it was rather quiet last time with volunteers | 22:25 |
| sicelo | that would be great | 22:25 |
| sicelo | yes, and that's why period should be long enough | 22:26 |
| eLtMosen | to change period to 12month we need GA. and that also needs 1 moth prior annonce :) | 22:26 |
| sicelo | you'll be able to send notification out today/tomorrow? | 22:27 |
| eLtMosen | yes, i guess so. lets say election starts 12/08 and i have the day tomorrow to play safe. | 22:27 |
| sicelo | when we hand over to new council, i guess we should encourage them toget a referendum going for the extension of the term | 22:28 |
| eLtMosen | My wife is pulling me towards the fethers already, don't know how long i can withstand. lol | 22:29 |
| sicelo | haha, ok | 22:29 |
| eLtMosen | my bet is it will be us, hopefully +2 ;) | 22:29 |
| sicelo | :-) | 22:30 |
| sicelo | i wonder if, after notification is sent out, i shouldn't alsomake short tweet? | 22:31 |
| eLtMosen | absolutely. | 22:31 |
| sicelo | will do :-) | 22:31 |
| sicelo | g'nite then | 22:34 |
| sicelo | eLtMosen: you're chairman? | 22:35 |
| eLtMosen | yes | 22:41 |
| sicelo | great | 22:42 |
| eLtMosen | please check the text i added in piratepad and i will post on maemo.org | 22:42 |
| sicelo | let me go on laptop then (on N900 atm) | 22:43 |
| sicelo | eLtMosen: the Group contact action point is completed now | 22:51 |
| eLtMosen | cool! | 22:53 |
| sicelo | looks good to me. that'sfrom previous notifications? | 22:57 |
| eLtMosen | slightly changed, but yeah. | 22:58 |
| *** xes_ is now known as xes | 23:00 | |
| sicelo | i think now i'll be going offline | 23:02 |
| eLtMosen | Ok, gonna post any minute, nity nite | 23:02 |
| sicelo | nite | 23:03 |
| juiceme | hi! | 23:05 |
| juiceme | sorry i'm a bit late now.. | 23:05 |
| juiceme | how's it going? | 23:06 |
| sicelo | hi juiceme | 23:07 |
| sicelo | we've just set the dates for election. | 23:07 |
| juiceme | good! | 23:08 |
| eLtMosen | done, mail sent. got it? | 23:10 |
| eLtMosen | hi Juice!! | 23:10 |
| juiceme | okay, now read the backlog :) | 23:11 |
| juiceme | haven't checked mail, just came in and first thing I checked in irc | 23:12 |
| juiceme | about election nominations, I kind of remember it has usually been better in the autnum elections, probably people are less occupid with the upcpmig summer :) | 23:13 |
| juiceme | s/upcpmig/upcoming | 23:14 |
| juiceme | got the mail, excellent :) | 23:15 |
| eLtMosen | \o/ | 23:15 |
| juiceme | lately I have been only too busy with union business, we just had our new collective agreement accepted today | 23:16 |
| eLtMosen | ah, good for you! successfull? | 23:16 |
| juiceme | well the previous agreement closed in end of october so we were preparing for all sorts of needed actions if the new agreement was not reached, good that it's not needed now | 23:18 |
| juiceme | i am not totally happy with the terms but it is just and just acceptable | 23:18 |
| eLtMosen | compromise = both parties are unhappy. lol | 23:18 |
| juiceme | well yes... it was pretty tough, especially the parts that are about money :) | 23:19 |
| juiceme | what ails me about the reached agreement is that it is okayish on paper but there are some terms tha make it not-so-good; we did not get full "perälauta" | 23:20 |
| juiceme | I'm not sure what it is in english, but it means that in disputed cases there is a certain payraise that is guaranteed for everyone then | 23:21 |
| juiceme | the collective agreement contains kind-of inflation compensation, and that's what is not so good as is calculated it should be | 23:22 |
| eLtMosen | i understand | 23:22 |
| juiceme | but yes, I am known to be passionate about these things... | 23:22 |
| juiceme | I think there is something similarish in germany too? | 23:23 |
| eLtMosen | But frankly, thats why i am freelancer. I can deal different deals with every customer. One day its better next day its worse. Today it was perfect :D | 23:23 |
| juiceme | excellent! | 23:23 |
| eLtMosen | yes, we have that in germany | 23:24 |
| juiceme | it's good to be in a position one can choose the good customers :) | 23:24 |
| eLtMosen | getting to it. always so close is the problem :D | 23:24 |
| juiceme | heheh | 23:24 |
| juiceme | ah, one thing; can you now write new articles to the council blog? | 23:27 |
| eLtMosen | I today hired a japanes chef that earns 1.5k€ month for 450e per day for a week. never saw such a happy face in my life. Feels like robin hood :D | 23:27 |
| juiceme | as at least according to xes you should have access | 23:27 |
| eLtMosen | yes!! | 23:27 |
| juiceme | ooh, you are the employer of the month, sure! :) | 23:28 |
| eLtMosen | Only for a week tho :D But as i said aiming for fully booked calander 2018 | 23:28 |
| juiceme | so he's a good chef, where he has normally been working? | 23:29 |
| eLtMosen | Problem is with restaurant work | 23:30 |
| juiceme | yes | 23:31 |
| eLtMosen | The conecpt is from the last century where you could have slaves... | 23:31 |
| juiceme | I guess it is undervalued, in finland it is | 23:31 |
| eLtMosen | either you pay a good price like 50€ up per person, or you can b sure the personel is unhappy with working conditions. Thumbrule. | 23:32 |
| juiceme | the problem is I think that there are too many people who are so poor they have to settle for underpayment, for a reason or other... and not recognizing talent in the people working; | 23:35 |
| eLtMosen | Yes. oppression is everywhere... good you are doing the union work. very honorary. | 23:36 |
| eLtMosen | As a business man, if your business is not sustainable without paying good wages, your business model is not worth it. | 23:37 |
| juiceme | yes, except i am in a way working for the privilidged, engineers beig not the *most* oppressed group! | 23:37 |
| eLtMosen | It is only a matter of view angle | 23:37 |
| juiceme | but we also do have real problems here with engineers, especially those who came working from far east and don't know their rights | 23:38 |
| eLtMosen | kitchen workers only swweat more but can not compare to developers conditions. it is a mtter of not being rewarded that kills you. | 23:38 |
| juiceme | and overworking, it *does* kill you. just 2 weeks ago here was a suicide of a systems developer working for subcontractor that hires engineers from india and pushes them to do 16 hour days | 23:40 |
| eLtMosen | gosh, so dreadfull... | 23:40 |
| eLtMosen | and it was only in his head... | 23:40 |
| juiceme | he could not take it, walked into the sea :( | 23:40 |
| eLtMosen | now you can imagine the 50year old japanese chef being rewaed for his skills for the first time. geez that was beautifull | 23:41 |
| juiceme | some of these companies really sicken me, they don't pay for overtime, make you do crazy hours and the when something fails or is not ready blame it on the engineers | 23:41 |
| eLtMosen | sick | 23:42 |
| juiceme | that relly must have made his day, I am glaad you can afford to do that! | 23:42 |
| eLtMosen | My pla is to do kind of an "not evil" franchise and empower chefs to do tradefair work and have own customers ;) | 23:43 |
| juiceme | that is so nice, and it sure will reward the business too; people who are valued will always do better work | 23:44 |
| eLtMosen | The key is to have a premium product. which most software companies lack, sadly... | 23:44 |
| eLtMosen | or have problem to market it | 23:45 |
| juiceme | indeed, and so few really realize that is the only way to thrieve; it is absolutely no sense to try to compete on who is cheapest, there always will be some who use oppression and illegal tactics to cut the low-end deal. | 23:46 |
| juiceme | only way to compete is to be better, not cheaper | 23:47 |
| juiceme | with many companies I thing they went the wrong path when economist were put in charge as executives, instead of actual enterpreuners who know the product or service... | 23:48 |
| eLtMosen | Yes the most respectfull name for entrepreneurs in germany is "Unternehmer", translates to "The one who does" | 23:50 |
| eLtMosen | Most employees in companies lead by their actual "owners" are doing well in germany. | 23:52 |
| juiceme | indeed. and I'd say in finland we also need to look that way to succeed; I mean people buy swiss watches and german cars, even though those are not the cheapest on the market! | 23:55 |
| juiceme | it is no use trying to undercompete ourselves with indians and vietnamese, they will always do it cheaper. | 23:56 |
| eLtMosen | And your country still has a great reutation for quality | 23:56 |
| juiceme | if the companies can keep it up, good then. nowdays the mantra is cheaper, cheaper, cheaper | 23:57 |
| juiceme | one needs to go against the current, surely | 23:57 |
| eLtMosen | I have seen containers full of vietnames being happy to work for 4€ in a german suhsi plant. there is now way to win this fight and remain "human" | 23:57 |
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