IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Wednesday, 2015-07-29

pmgcerm...weeelll...sure... I guess I could ..do my civic duty...blahblahblah and all that official type jargon. Sure. For the communtiy and my buds ...whether I get voted in is another matter...and the tyrannical reign of iron-fisted endso begins :D00:00
juicemethank you :)00:00
npeterleichenoh yeah00:01
juicemeThe main commitment is to be available in IRC meetings. Otherwice, much of discussion goes by mailing list00:01
pmgcIs one of the perks is a button that allows the instantaneous setting of  truly irritating people on fire? If there is a button [heard there was] I promise never ever ever ever ever to hit it...well maybe a few times00:02
npeterleichen;)00:02
juicemeahhahhaa the magic button, YES :)00:03
pmgcI KNEW THE WAS A BUTTON!!!00:03
pmgcit was rumoured00:03
npeterleichenas juice said main committment is to be on IRC, sum it up, do an announcement here and the, organize a new election, ...00:04
npeterleichenwhat button? NEED to know!!!00:04
pmgcwell if I'm voted in...I duly swear by the clubhouse stuffed badger... that I'll show up [timely] and be as serious as humaly possible00:05
juicemenpeterleichen, what, you have not found it yet?00:05
pmgcnew definition to the term flaming00:05
juicemeendso, that's all that is expected :)00:05
pmgcmore literal00:05
npeterleichennope, as well as those N9 arrow/copy/past with swype00:05
juicemeeaster eggs, those :)00:06
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juicemeAs I have understood that you are a self-employed craftsman, I'd imagine you can find time to IRC now and then. One of the biggest challenges is getting people to agree on when to have meetings00:09
juicemeM4rtinK, hi :)00:09
pmgcI'm fairly flexible in my time compared to most. My hours are my own...unlike many ..I'm not on anybody's company time... thankfully00:10
juicemethat is good to know. Usually as we have meetings scheduled so that it is late night in EU, afternoon in americas and early morning in Australia.00:12
juicemebut the convention can be edited any time, depending on the preferences and composition of the current Council00:12
pmgcFor the foreseeable future ....that works alright for me..yet again I do feel I have a bit more margin than many so ...I'm understanding and flexible with times...within reason naturally00:14
juicemeso, has anyone got AOB?00:15
juicemeI'm thinking of making myself a late-night fried-mushroom-and-spring-onion sandwich :)00:16
npeterleichenyum yum00:17
Win7Macwhat about TM? - we need to act now00:17
pmgcooooh ...tasty other business00:17
pmgcit's due then...00:17
npeterleichenwin7mac, right00:17
npeterleichenbut I guess it is board decision, or?00:17
Win7Macyes00:18
npeterleichenmy take is: renew EU only, will cost more than we have got founded00:18
npeterleichenso who contacts board?00:18
pmgcI agree00:19
npeterleichenjuiceme, already on mushrooms??? ;)ä00:19
juicemewell we are still behind in the donations00:19
juicemebut we have some time still, I am confident we can raise the rest we need00:19
npeterleichenbut as win7mac said we need to act NOW00:20
pmgcthis is good00:20
Win7Macwhat if donations stay under 2000?00:20
juicemewell we have other funds, probably can tap into those00:20
Win7Macexactly 1 month left for full papers being sent in00:21
npeterleichenboard needs to take rest money from funds00:21
juicemebut I'd like to see it done thru donations00:21
Win7Macsignature from Nokia included...00:21
npeterleichenwin7mac, that I see as most problematic00:21
juicemedid we still need some signature00:21
npeterleichenso we need a rush decision00:22
juicemein some papers of the TM?00:22
pmgcwhat about the possibility to crowdfund the rest? There are perhaps many who used to be active members who are unaware of the current sitch who would notice via crowdfunding00:22
juicemewould crowdfunding be more visible than informing on TMO?00:23
Win7Macjuiceme, Nokia still needs to be informed about the handover to MC eV00:23
juicemeone other thing we'd need is way to accept bitcoins.00:23
pmgcFor those who don't come anymore ..possibly...it may also draw outside tmo donations00:23
Win7Mac+1 for bitcoin00:23
juicemeWin7Mac, has there been no reaction from Nokia?00:24
pmgc+1 for bitcoin00:24
juicemechemist was doing something bitcoiny but there was some problems.00:24
Win7Macthere been no action to Nokia!00:24
juicemeWin7Mac why?00:25
Win7Macnot sure, chem|st drafted something for Jaffa but nothing happened or smth...00:25
juicemewould it help if I went there personally and hunted down somebody from Nokia Legal?00:26
juicemeas I understood the address for them is in Kilo, Espoo00:26
Win7Macdon't think so, the lawyer we were in contact with was ok00:27
juicemewhich is where I work now00:27
Win7Macchem|st could send it if Jaffa is MIA...00:27
juicemedarn.00:28
juicemewhere'd he disappear agin, I think the HiFo/McEV transition meeting went well?00:28
Win7Macgood question00:29
Win7Macand yes, meeting went well00:29
pmgcback shortly00:29
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npeterleichenhad that also in mind, every working well, papers on the way ....00:29
juicemeanyway it is *informing* only00:31
Win7Macyes, nevertheless I suggest you talk to chemist00:31
juicemewill do00:33
juicemeand about the bitcoins too. I think he was going to set up an account wit a broker, said it was too tedious if we need to handle the chains directly.00:33
juiceme( I don't know too much about bitcoins... )00:34
npeterleichenjuiceme, yes please.00:34
npeterleichenand thanks00:34
Win7Macyes, thanks00:34
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pmgcback00:34
juicemewelcome back :)00:34
npeterleichenbitcoins? guess I need to inform me better00:35
pmgcjust had to get on the shop xchat00:35
npeterleichencould be the future. Or not at all ...00:35
pmgcbitcoin is looking like it "could" be00:35
juicemewell there's more than one cryptocoin system but bitcoin is the established one00:36
Win7Maci don't bitcoin but community does (some)00:36
juicemethere's been at least 2 people who'd donated if we accepted bitcoins00:37
npeterleichen2 of them who were verbous00:37
npeterleichenso yes, for community a good thing to have00:38
juicemeyes, could be more00:38
chem|stWin7Mac: what are you talking about? Nokia has been notified in the week the email was sent by snailmail too00:42
juicemechem|st, excellent00:43
chem|steverything has been announced and stuff00:44
juicemehow's the bitcoin thing going on?00:44
npeterleichenchem|st, good. was there any reply? or any needed?00:44
chem|stno reply and non needed00:44
Win7Macoops, sorry, didn't notice00:45
juicemeno news is good news :)00:45
chem|stjuiceme: I did not send in anything so no progress there, I am MIA the last 2 weeks00:45
juicemeokay.00:45
npeterleichenchem|st, so we 'could' continue with TM stuff? or needed to have hifo -->eV transfer officially?00:45
juicemeI'd imagined it would be easy&quick to set up00:46
chem|stit is not important as we have paypal and normal banking, but for the future I'd like to have it anyway00:46
juicemethere's been enquiries about it, people wanting to donate bitcoin.00:46
chem|stnpeterleichen: there is a board meeting scheduled where we will count collected funds and decide if we make EU, the lawyers are already informed about that transition00:47
juicemeor al least saying so00:47
chem|stI will have a look the next days00:47
juicemethx00:47
npeterleichenchem|st, perfect. thanks00:47
npeterleichento both00:47
chem|stand I have to skip the scheduled meeting on 9th to some day working days the coming week after that, warfare and you can come up with a date I will make sure I can join00:48
juicemeright.00:48
juicemeI can attend most days I guess00:48
chem|stafter that we trigger EU TM renewal I guess, so as soon as that is triggered it is on juiceme to get the payment in order, I will see to ahve all papers ready by nokia for it to beforehand and have a quote from the brand attorney we can vote on00:50
chem|stfrom the looks donations will probably cover most of the EU already00:50
juicemeit's about 1400 eur00:51
juicemewasn't there also an extra fee for being late and some legal fees?00:52
Win7Macthat's already in the 2.120,- €00:53
juicemetoo bad reinob could not handle it due to conflict-of-intrest, being a patent engineer he sure would have all the know-how00:54
Win7Macand incl. ageny fees00:54
juicemeokay00:54
Win7Macwhat?00:54
juicemeso we are missing about 700 eur still00:54
Win7Macreinob being a patent engineer?00:54
juicemeya, he mentioned it in passing00:55
Win7Macany idea where?00:55
juicemein some EU official I think00:56
juicemethat's why said it is conflict00:56
Win7Macno. I mean where he mentioned it... just found it, nvm00:56
juicemeok00:57
Win7Machttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1475272&postcount=2400:57
juicemeyes'00:57
Win7MacBut what makes you believe he "could not handle it due to conflict-of-intrest"?00:58
juicemeit's in the same thread, later00:58
chem|stmost of it as in >60%00:59
chem|stand with a final call for donations we will get some more covered00:59
chem|stif I get BTC up in time we get some there probably too00:59
Win7Macchem|st, that'd be awesome!01:00
chem|stWin7Mac: would you mind getting an official quote for us with address and everything from that mdm attorney we had contact with?01:01
chem|stsent to board01:01
Win7MacI'm about to contact reinob for assistance...01:01
Win7Mac?01:02
chem|stI'd rather let an attorney do everything who has already signed papers from nokia than to fuck it up last minute01:02
npeterleichenI guess so, too01:02
chem|stbut ask reinob for advice01:02
juicemeagreed. even as it will cost us some.01:02
Win7Macprobably the safer way, yes01:03
chem|stask reinob and get a quote?01:03
npeterleichennot that I think reinob could not help, but he said already01:03
chem|stand the owner change of those not expiring maybe included01:03
npeterleichenhe could not do so ...01:03
chem|stnpeterleichen: he can give advice internally01:04
juicemethat'd be valuable too01:04
Win7Macchem|st, owner change of those not expiring?01:05
Win7Macah, there was 1...01:05
chem|stwe have at least 1 not expiring01:05
chem|stI thought it be more lmc01:06
Win7MacTaiwan until May 1, 201601:07
Win7MacBrazil01:07
Win7Mac: June 10, 201801:07
chem|stSG 2018 NO 201801:08
Win7MacCanada01:08
Win7Mac: August 28, 202301:08
juicemeoo, that's a long way off01:08
chem|stkorea 201801:08
chem|styeah some count filing +10 some registration +10 so we have at least 4 that are not due yet01:09
chem|stand canada has registration +1501:09
chem|stdon't know about the others01:10
chem|stthe brand attorney knows01:10
Win7MacSingapore: July 15, 2019; Japan, Korea, Russia, Switzerland, Norway: 202001:13
chem|stwe can maybe leave the change of owner until they expire but well01:13
chem|sthmm ok so that WO is also covered for 15years then01:14
chem|stso we are left with EU and US only01:14
Win7MacI'd suggest to do so, otherwise fees will multiply, I fear01:14
Win7Macwell, add up...01:15
Win7Macand as long as the brand IS protected...01:16
chem|stdoesn't matter, we need to renew EU next month or we loose it and registering again wont happen ever01:16
Win7MacRIGHT01:16
juiceme+101:16
chem|stso, do you get a quote from her or should I do?01:16
Win7MacI will01:17
pmgc+101:17
chem|stta!01:17
juicemegood01:17
chem|stwhat does the nominees list look like?01:17
npeterleichenthank you01:17
chem|stto get back to council topics01:17
npeterleichennot much volunteers there01:18
npeterleichenguess we need to shanghai again ...01:18
juicemenobody's confirmed on the mailing list yet01:18
juicemebut I will be running01:19
juicemeand endsormeans too01:19
Win7MacYAY!01:19
npeterleichenjuicme, good!!!!!!!01:19
juicemewhat about you, peter?01:19
pmgcBlueberries!!!01:19
npeterleichenso will I (most probably)01:19
juicemeyes :)01:19
Win7MacYAYYAY!01:20
npeterleichentada!!!01:20
Win7Mac;)01:20
juicemeI think we'd need to think up good people and PM them to ask if they are willing to run01:21
juicemethat worked last time :)01:22
chem|stjuiceme: did you catch my call about bank statements? that you need to DL the pdfs?01:23
juicemeyes, I noticed that.01:24
juicemedo I need to do it every month?01:24
chem|styes01:24
juicemeokay01:24
chem|stgerman law stuff, pretty annoying as some banksters take it literally and send every month but they actually do not need to do that, law says quarterly01:25
chem|stI have only one bank that does that quarterly, all others pretend that monthly is required, incl Deutsche Bank01:26
juicemewell legal+banking usually equals bureocracy...01:26
chem|stthey could just setup freaking pgp mailing but no...01:26
juicemein finland we have an option to receive it as email01:27
chem|stI do not want bank statements emailed unencrypted01:27
juicemebut you need a special email account by the finnish mail company to receive those01:27
chem|stthat is just as stupid as SMS tan for online banking01:27
juiceme^^^^ for that reason01:27
juicemeSMS'es used here too...01:28
chem|stwell nvm, just pick them up as I think we will get charged for it if they send paper copies01:28
juicemeisn't it enough that I've been checking the transactions to see the donations?01:29
juicemeor do I have to specially download the monthly balance sheet01:30
Win7Macdownload the balance sheet01:31
juicemeokay01:31
Win7Maclooking doesn't count... ;)01:31
npeterleichenon my bank it does (they mark them as read). but downloading is safe01:32
juiceme'no sir, i never touched the darn thing, i was only looking'01:32
Win7Mac;)01:32
Win7MacMy bank does the same01:33
Win7MacInofficial announcement:01:35
Win7MacJust in case, we won't see enough (6) candidates in 1st attempt and still not enough (4) in 2nd attempt, I'll accept my nomination.01:35
juicemethanks!01:36
Win7MacWell, knowing that peter + you are in, I'm tempted ;)01:37
juiceme:)01:37
npeterleichenNICE!01:37
juicemegenerally what I really wonder about, we have pretty many vocal people on TMO but why are they so shy when asked to join Council?01:40
Win7Maclet's see what we have there on saturday night01:41
juicemeas they are not hiding when writing comments to communal-intrest topics...01:41
Win7Macmany?01:41
juicemesure01:41
pmgcperhaps it is a lack of understanding as to duties...but methinks apathy01:42
juicemeat least dozen01:42
Win7Macright, I just don't call a dozen many...01:42
juicemeya but what's the difference between writing comments on TMO against coming to IRC to discuss the same things...?01:43
Win7Machehe...01:43
juicemeat least dozen, maybe more01:43
pmgcunlike juiceme I think there could be 12 ..theoretically many others :D01:44
Win7Mac;)01:45
chem|stjuiceme: responsibility, and do you really want the most vocal tmo'ers to become council?01:45
Win7Macresponsibility + time investment01:46
Win7Macinterest...01:46
juicemechem|st well, not really, but it does not mean they'd not *want* to01:47
chem|stthey are so vital on tmo that time isn't the issue01:47
juiceme:p01:47
pmgcchem|st:  does have a point ...vocality doesn't always mean it is a smart choice.01:48
chem|stwe have seen that with sudden device give aways01:48
juiceme?01:48
chem|stjuiceme: if you do not know what I am talking about so be it, I will not call names on that topic01:49
juicemeokay.01:49
Win7Macyears ago...01:50
pmgcPinning people down to a predetermined time to communicate...smacks of obligation...there isn't any "set" obligation in tmo to respond to posts ...it's like inviting your friends to a party and only a couple show ...because they were determined enough.01:50
chem|stthat maybe yes01:50
juicemeI think there was some tradition that Council members were given some devices by Nokia but that was before my time so I don't know anything about it...01:50
npeterleichenI remember that, but was not involved then01:51
juicemeendso, probably true. When in IRC you at least have to be there one eye open, message chains can go on for days01:52
pmgcAs a potential candidate I now wish to state for the record I am un-swayable...ooh ...pretty shinies?01:52
juicemean excellent declaration :)01:52
pmgcPerks as incentive I see no problem with...perks with the intent as leverage is another..01:54
pmgcmost creatures on this planet only understand a reward system for good behaviour...humans are no different01:55
juicemeyes, but with humans the rewards can be pretty abstract01:56
pmgcfor the intelligent ones yes..01:56
npeterleichenguys, I am off. need to sleep01:57
pmgcnite01:57
npeterleichenwas pretty good meeting, thanks01:57
juicemebye then, sleep well!01:57
npeterleichengnite all01:57
Win7Macgnite ;)01:57
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juicemefunny as it is, I am not that tired yet. just getting a little hungry01:58
pmgcmake that samitch01:58
Win7Macmushies on your mind...01:58
juicemeyes... am now in the last bucket01:58
juicemejust found a surprise mushroom too; my wife had picked a different mushroom in her bag01:59
juicemeit is a delicious one too, but I dont know its name in english02:00
pmgcgood eats juiceme...well..if there is nothing else to jaw about [but food...beginning to get hungry thinkin about it]..leave most you o'er-the-ponders to sleep and victuals ...and I back to carving.02:01
pmgcchow in the multiple sense02:01
juicemeyes, good hunting to you too :)02:02
juicemeso, let's close this meeting now unless anybody disagrees...?02:02
juicemegnite!02:03
pmgcnite02:03
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Win7Macgnite!02:04
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