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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2014 is terribly obsolete info | 20:33 |
|---|---|---|
| rZr | maybe we should contact folks http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2014/Candidate_declarations | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | proper introduction with full name etc is mandatory I'd say | 20:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anybody around? | 22:58 |
| * peterleinchen_ is lurking/listening | 22:59 | |
| juiceme | o/ | 22:59 |
| juiceme | hi doc, peter | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm in a hurry and busy and... | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so in short: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2014 is terribly obsolete info | 23:02 |
| juiceme | mm, does not exist, even. | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I haven't seen formal announcement of results of nomination period, plus explanation of next steps towards election yet | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 23:03 |
| juiceme | the page is empty | 23:03 |
| juiceme | however http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2014/Candidate_declarations exists | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2014/07/03/plasma-desktopwQ1814.png | 23:04 |
| juiceme | strange, i dont see that kind of page? | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a) not empty b) many TBD | 23:05 |
| juiceme | on my page, it just says | 23:05 |
| juiceme | Community Council/Council election May 2014/ | 23:05 |
| juiceme | There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or edit this page. | 23:05 |
| juiceme | how come? | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no idea. It's a link from http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process | 23:06 |
| juiceme | oo, now I see it | 23:06 |
| juiceme | some glitch in wiki? | 23:06 |
| juiceme | yes that is obsolete info, needs to be updayed | 23:07 |
| juiceme | one question, now before we get to voting, the current "contemplation period", is there a formal definition of that somewhere? | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, no definition. It's meant for candidates to make themselves known by electorate. Candidates MUST update http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2014/Candidate_declarations | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we need to set up election machine and already should start sending out ballots, though prior to that the candidates need to get approved. We did this for chainsawbike iirc | 23:11 |
| juiceme | Yes, only 6 updated info yet | 23:11 |
| juiceme | okay. | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | leving council('s chair) checks each candidate if s/he is eligible to stand for council | 23:12 |
| juiceme | what other eligibility criteria exists than karma? | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | means: check accounts, check name, check karma | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least candidates need a garage account and they should provide sufficient data like full name etc so you actually get to know who they are | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sending out ballots takes several days, since we don't want to trigger spam monitors | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus mail sending is throttled | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and we need a new electorate list | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | creating new list is a supposedly simple process in voting engine, however nobody but woody really understands what it *really* does and how to fix stuff when something fails (which it will, quite probably) | 23:17 |
| juiceme | Yes, I talked about it with woody. | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we cannot reuse old obsolete electorate list a 4th time | 23:17 |
| juiceme | yes, it needs to be brought up to date. | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | last two elections council received a few complaints about spamming users who deleted their account long ago. When we spam them a 3rd time, we will have to wear asbestos underwear | 23:19 |
| juiceme | can't really help that, too bad. | 23:20 |
| juiceme | and it is a spam so rare it should bother no-one- | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I explicitly reject any responsibility for any such failure to respect user's privacy rights | 23:20 |
| juiceme | it should be avoided, yes, but if somebody wants to be left gor good, should they delete accounts? | 23:21 |
| peterleinchen_ | why not delete them manually? shouldnt be too much, or? | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please contact woody and insist in a new electorate list based on recent garage account data | 23:21 |
| juiceme | okay. | 23:22 |
| peterleinchen_ | he stll has access? | 23:22 |
| juiceme | yes | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | peterleinchen_: that's a mysql table (or two or 3) and I have no clue how they work, I don't even have access to them anymore | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | woody still should have access | 23:23 |
| sixwheeledbeast | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team/How_Elections_Work may also help | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if he can't help, please ask sysops/techstaff to assist | 23:23 |
| peterleinchen_ | and if he agrees it would be nice if he explains a bit ... | 23:23 |
| juiceme | I have discussed this with few mails with woody, it looks pretty straightforward. | 23:25 |
| juiceme | the only thing not sure is the recipient list | 23:25 |
| juiceme | up to date voters, to be certain. | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's exactly what I'm talking about | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the electorate | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is kinda "easy" to add new entries to the existing list. It also seems kind of simple to create a new list from another table of users (which may also be out of date, state of that list is already unclear). What's completely unclear is how to remove entries and how to check the newly created list forplausibility in *any* way | 23:30 |
| juiceme | I recall you suggested backing up the existing electorate table before trying to upgrade. That is a good advice. | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the main issue is karma and particularly the missing propagation of account deletions from garage to al other subsystems | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the latter being the reason for spam | 23:32 |
| juiceme | so, if account has been deleted from Garage but still exists on TMO, kind of thing? | 23:32 |
| juiceme | but that should not matter as only Garage accounts are taken into account, right? | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, only it's not tmo but sth like www.m.o or whatever the VM where the electorate database tables get handled | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the election machine doesn't use garage accounts, that's the whole problem | 23:34 |
| juiceme | ah | 23:34 |
| peterleinchen_ | what else? | 23:35 |
| peterleinchen_ | only that 'list'? | 23:35 |
| juiceme | that's the movable bit in it | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all '7 dozen' VMs get synced to garage user db via cronjobs. Those cronjobs got edited long ago to not sync account deletions, since then any error in running those scripts possibly nukes huge percentages of active accounts | 23:35 |
| juiceme | all the other parts are fairly static. Well of course candidates differ but that is a minor thing | 23:36 |
| juiceme | okay, so it's like "rsync -a" without "-x" option... | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the rest is easy | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kinda | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe sysops can help on this | 23:37 |
| juiceme | I'll ask falk | 23:37 |
| juiceme | if I need to know some spesific thing. | 23:38 |
| juiceme | But, which of the VM's got the correct userbase then? | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "deleted" accounts on garage are only tagged as deleted, they still exists. It should be possibly to do a SQL select on "deleted" and prepare a script from that, amnually check for plausibility, then use that script to actually delete user records out of electrorate tables on voting VM | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | correct userbase is on garage | 23:39 |
| juiceme | okay | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | voting engine prolly runs on www VM | 23:39 |
| juiceme | yes, tht's where my login account is | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | www VM gets synced to garage, but that job doesn't delete any account on www VM, ever | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the php script has the deletion section commented out, since it caused disasters when garage db been offline or whatever | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's an abomination of a nightmare, but hey, we have to live with it, or improve it. Nobody thought it's worth actually doing it and improving it, despite I explained the problem start of this term. | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and start of last term | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thwe script is ridiculous, the concept is braindead basically | 23:43 |
| juiceme | it has worked up to now, serves its purpose and I guess that's the definition of an usable system | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nnot really | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this been also one of the php scripts which used up to 8GB and counting, before they aborted thanks to OOM killer kicking in | 23:44 |
| juiceme | ay | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and syncing a 70k user records twice a day, just in case sth changed, is really not exactly smart | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | garage should provide a list of recent changes only | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and instantly trigger sync when any change gets committed | 23:46 |
| juiceme | that would be much lighter way to do it, yes | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas it works the other way around: the other machines poll the complete garage db and compare, and once they deleted all local accounts that garage didn't know of | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so that basically meant: when garage had a glitch, all other VM delete *all* accounts, incl user data | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | smart, eh? | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 23:49 |
| juiceme | receipe for disaster&downtime | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus no VM now deletes *any* user account. Just update changes and new accounts | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | been like this since duno, 2 or 3 years | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the ,onster sync job should run only once per year, under manual control | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | monster* | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not twice per day | 23:52 |
| juiceme | does that slow down the total system a lot, make the VM's less responsive? | 23:52 |
| rZr | hi | 23:53 |
| rZr | wont stay long | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, sure | 23:54 |
| juiceme | rZr, hi | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we (techstaff) optimized the jobs to use <1GB instead of >>6GB RAM, but then it "just worked" and nobody been motivated to do more to it | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the problems stayed | 23:55 |
| rZr | RAM will be cheaper once it will be fixed so ... | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MEH!! | 23:56 |
| juiceme | heh, it is always the same thing, when something 'just about works' it gets left that way... | 23:56 |
| juiceme | mm, BTW, is the election still called "Community Council/Council election May 2014" | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nemein/nokia had a ddicated physical server with probably 24GB RAM, just **to run the scripts** :-o | 23:57 |
| juiceme | eve though it is july already.... | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously been cheaper than to fix it | 23:57 |
| rZr | welcome to the IOT era | 23:57 |
| juiceme | or should it just be called "Community Council/Council election Q2/2014" ? | 23:58 |
| rZr | or just Current election | 23:58 |
| rZr | will be rename on next | 23:58 |
| rZr | renameD | 23:58 |
| juiceme | I am just practicing on the election machine, and it needs a title... | 23:58 |
| rZr | ok | 23:59 |
| rZr | I thought you were refering to the wiki | 23:59 |
| juiceme | I'll put Q2/2014, that'll be okay | 23:59 |
| juiceme | rZr, that's where I looked it up :) | 23:59 |
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