| GeneralAntilles | Empathy, Doc. | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
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| GeneralAntilles | No need to escalate arguement until somebody blows up. | 00:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: right, but I felt a little touched by him calling me a five year old and blaming me for sprading fud that in fact I never said | 00:27 |
| win7mac | "felt a little touched..." but are experienced enough to handle this the easy way, no? | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Let it go | 00:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | No need to escalate. | 00:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you can't avoid escalating, just walk away. | 00:34 |
| win7mac | sorry, please ignore | 00:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, sorry. I should make better use of the power button on my PC | 00:52 |
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| Jaffa | Do think that playing with voting systems is interesting, but perhaps not the best use of time. | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: you're aware of my spreadsheet I prepared to give everybody a living example how a simple N-for-N vote would look like? | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | admittedly I spent some time on it, but hey, I needed that since I been fed up with emergency handling and midgard fixing | 00:59 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: I did the see spreadsheet, but didn't look at it in detail. | 00:59 |
| Jaffa | (Looked like the kind of thing which would be better with someone walking through it) | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's ultra simple: I can explain in one line / sentence how it works, and the spreadsheet shows it yields similar or sometimes IMHO better results than STV | 01:00 |
| Jaffa | OK, so I have it open | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | every user has 5 votes for a body of 5. you sum up all votes and the 5 candidates with most votes win | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for BoD election the results are obviously identical | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jaffa: if you allowed it to "update linked external datasourse" then it got crippled. undo will fix that | 01:03 |
| Jaffa | Obvious question: was that approach discussed when we went to STV (see maemo-community archives) | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that was what I asked | 01:04 |
| Jaffa | I'd have to read the archive | 01:04 |
| Jaffa | Fortunately, it already exists (though getting to it on maemo.org is a PITA these days) | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wouldn't even have an archive of that time, iirc | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so I hoped for those who participated in that discussion back when | 01:05 |
| Jaffa | It is four years ago: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RangeVoting/message/10465?threaded=1&var=1&p=6 ;-) | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I expect some reasons why STV got the decision | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe I missed some obvious flaw in N-votes-for-N-bodymembers | 01:06 |
| Jaffa | My gut says the problems are probably around _not_ using all of your votes | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, it's late here and I'm unusually exhausted today (at a time where I normally would wonder what I should have for brunch) | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there *might* be problems with the <nobody> option | 01:08 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: I'll see if I can find appropriate threads | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the spreadsheet only counts _one_ vote for nobody, but still that might not be what user wanted to express by not using all votes he had | 01:09 |
| Jaffa | A comment from dneary about "CLAY" pitching for range voting; which give a good set of requirements IMHO: | 01:10 |
| Jaffa | For me, a voting system must fulfill two basic needs before all others: | 01:11 |
| Jaffa | make it easy for people to vote, and make the results of the election | 01:11 |
| Jaffa | easily verifiable. | 01:11 |
| Jaffa | Straight voting fulfills both of these requirements well, but falls down | 01:11 |
| Jaffa | on a third, important goal: ensure the result well reflects the will of | 01:11 |
| Jaffa | the electorate. | 01:11 |
| Jaffa | Eugh, re-reading the emails Clay Shentrup posted directly to the council at the time, and timeless, and dneary is... annoying | 01:14 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx argued for "n-votes-for-n-candidates" on 2009-01-17 | 01:15 |
| Jaffa | In the Council it was GeneralAntilles' task to consolidate the proposals. Results were posted here https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Define_voting_procedure_for_Community_Council_elections (can't verify, since it times out for me) | 01:16 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-community@maemo.org/msg01043.html | 01:17 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=239338 was GeneralAntilles' original thread | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks | 01:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I checked out of the voting discussion pretty early due to irritation threshold issues. | 01:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 01:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | I made a thread? | 01:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | I have no memory of this. | 01:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also: goodness I needed to proof that. | 03:02 |
| win7mac | have set up a doodle-de-doo hell of a fumbling poll... http://www.doodle.com/8c9ci3ifywc49869 | 03:24 |
| win7mac | my availability assumed | 03:25 |
| win7mac | for next week | 03:25 |
| win7mac | and please someone convince Woody to join #maemo-board | 03:39 |
| win7mac | gn o/ | 03:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (spreadsheet) anyway note that this <nobody> option been an additional fancy I came up with some month before and I got told STV has it so I added it for N-for-N in spreadsheet. Actually it's way easier to kick it out from N-for-N than to make STV ignore threshold | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | note 2: our election rules / bylaws don't handle that case, neither for STV nor any other election counting system | 10:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus we had even no votes at all in the past when number-of-candidates == number of seats, since nobody allowed for that case that despite 5 candidates for MCC nobody at all votes for candidates #4 and #5 and thus we would end with a MCC of three despite 5 candidates | 10:59 |
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| win7mac | meeting of Woody + Rob is now? - can't find it on concert-oh.com | 17:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | No idea | 17:31 |
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